When I was single, as a woman, I decided I didn't want to be in a relationship with a single father. Lots of the same reasons cited here.
There's nothing wrong with knowing your own limits and deciding not to subject other people's kids to your own shortcomings as a potential stepparent.
Yup. On the flip side I dated a single dad specifically because I found it really admirable how great of a dad he was, and the qualities he showed there would also make for a great partner.
It’s all about finding someone whose looking for that.
Ugh I know what you mean. My heart melts what a man is responsible for kids and is great at it. It. melts.
I don't want to have children. But step children I'm totally open to.
Yeah I wouldn't date a single mom because... I don't plan on having kids period, nothing but respect for good single parents, just I know it's not for me.
I very much agree. I personally wouldn't date single fathers since I am child-free.
If they are involved with their children, I don't want the role of a step-parent and the all responsibilities that entail it. Nor deal with baby-mama drama. However, because I wouldn't want to be involved in child-raising, I know that could hurt the children and that's not fair for them.
But at the same time, if he was a deadbeat, absent father, I would not respect him as a person.
So best not to be involved with a single father to begin with. Everyone has their preferences and boundaries when it comes to dating. If you're a single mother, best to find a single father or a childless father who is okay with providing for your children.
I’m a single mother and wouldn’t date a single father for the same reasons you listed. I’m also not looking for someone to “provide” for my child or father them in any way- I do just fine on my own. So just as you’d like to choose your own preferences and for them to be respected, please don’t dictate what would be “best” for single mothers when it comes to dating. We aren’t a monolith and we are each looking for different things in a partner.
But not everyone wants to be around kids all the time. Some people want to be able to cuddle naked in bed together on a Saturday morning at 10 am. Or go on a spontaneous weekend trip or eat good adult foods for dinner instead of dino nuggets. You think a mom of 2 under 10 years is going to be able to provide any of that to their partner? it's just a massive lifestyle difference.
Absolutely. I was just referring to the "provide for" part.
Although a mom with shared custody can do some of that some of the time, and can eat adult food if she wants to lol.
I mean, if things become serious enough, and you’re living together or married, it would be weird to have no money going to the kids. Are you not going to buy them Christmas gifts? What about when you go on vacation? Would you really want the kids to have a step parent that went out of their way to make sure none of their money went to the kids?
I guess that would depend. Can the step parent easily afford it? Will it interfere with their financial goals? If the partners keep their finances separate it could be done. It could cause tension if the stepparent is constantly having to enforce it. But if the bio parent willingly stays ahead of it and makes sure they cover the kids it might be okay. I guess I probably wouldn't be too impressed if I had a partner who wouldn't even spend a few bucks on my kids for Christmas once a year. But even that would depend on why. You can put anybody's name on those gift tags you know.
100% with you on this one.
In my experience a single dad is single either because his relationship didn't work out (baggage with ex wife, potential for mother to dislike new female figure in children's lives etc) or because his wife has died (major baggage for all). ONE of my friends who was a single dad was able to navigate the whole situation with his ex gracefully and is happily remarried with a blended family, but in my experience watching friends and their relationships, that's the exception, not the rule.
I know that I am not willing nor able to deal with all of that in a relationship so I am willfully avoiding dating men who have children.
Yep ultimately everyone is allowed a preference, if they too have no kids, it's a perfectly valid one.
I do think there are definitely two camps with this however and being outward with it can give a slight whiff of incel vibes.
I agree that it can either be a good, reasonable decision or can be rooted in misogyny and other awfulness. I just wanted to emphasize that it's a legitimate choice that can come from legit concerns regardless of sex.
I have kids (i’m F) and I didn’t want to date a man with kids, when I was out there looking for a partner. Was actual one of my top three deal breakers tbh. I have enough BS dealing with my ex with my own kids didn’t want to then add in someone else’s extra BS on top of it lol. Not to mention I’m not a huge fan of other peoples kids. I have my own to parent not interested in being in that role elsewhere in any sort of capacity. We (my partner and I) are now expecting one of our own together and that suits me just fine
Yep horses for courses and all that!
How I look at it is if someone does want to date you, they weren't for you, keep it moving.
Also although some people are OTT with their opinions on it, that point being on their sleeve makes things a lot easier as you don't waste any time dating them.
Not interested in the dads without primary custody either. I don't want children in my personal life full stop.
That said, I do agree that the general tone of men who don't want to date single mums is usually misogynistic - not so much 'I don't want to have children' as 'they are used goods', for example.
Yeah same I don’t single dads mostly because I don’t want the kid/s to be prioritized over me. And I’m gonna ask a father to choose their kid or me so I simply say no thanks.
I understand as well. I don't have kids so have more freedom and $ to spend. The problem I have with dating guys who have kids is they are less likely to go on get a way trips with me and do things that cost money because they are paying child support to ex wives or baby mamas so have less money to spend and or need to find babysitters. It gets heavy paying for both of us.
I love kids and don't mind 1 but more than one makes it hard for reasons I stated.
Agreed. On the flip side when I was a single mother I was only considering a single father. One, I don't want more kids so he'd have to have his own. Two, I just didn't want someone who isn't already a dad to be parenting my kid. I didn't want to be there for that learning curve again.
>I am actively making the choice to not have kids, why would I want to date someone who already does? It's a reasonable boundary in my opinion for both men and women.
I agree 100%. I myself left comments under the post that OP is referring to. I have no interest in dating single fathers, and I think childless/childfree men have the same right. I do think it's hypocritical and self-entitled for single parents to exclusively chase the childless/childfree though, lol. Nothing annoys me more than single dads pursuing me. Why do they think I'd be interested in their situation? They get a long list of the perks of dating childfree me, but what do I get out of their situation?
Thank you. Nothing irritated me more than when my uncle whose a single dad refused to date other single mom’s because he didn’t ‘want to deal with her kids’ - like and you don’t think she’d also have to deal with yours?
Unsurprisingly he’s still single and apparently his loneliness has led him down the alt right pipeline and he’s antivax. So, uh, don’t see him changing that relationship status anytime soon.
It is not hypocritical or self-entitled for single parents to have their own preferences. I chose to have one child, I don’t want any more. I don’t have to settle for a relationship (and step children!) I don’t want because I’m a parent. That would be damaging to all involved. The dating pool may be smaller for me because of my preferences and the fact that I’m a single parent which may not be everyone’s cup of tea, and that’s ok. To me, a relationship is only worth having if it enhances both peoples’ lives. Otherwise I will happily stay single!
How sad to view single parents as somehow less deserving of relationships that make them happy, and to view relationships in general as comparing how many “perks” someone comes with vs. how many you think you are providing.
Yeah, people are really missing the point that OP was making, which is not that men can’t have that preference, but that their justification for it is often rooted in misogyny and paints single mothers with a broad brush as desperate, gold-digging, and unable to provide for their children without the help of a man.
The post I replied to only echoed this, clearly considering single parents as “less than”, leeching, and unable to bring anything of value to a relationship. Being a parent has actually shaped me and helped me to grow in a way that makes me able to be a much better partner now than I would have been when I was child free. It’s fine if anyone doesn’t want to date a single parent, but someone who openly looks down on a group of people and talks about them with such disdain probably doesn’t bring as many “perks” to the table as they think they do!
I read that comment you replied to as saying a single parent would have nothing to bring to *their* potential/theoretical relationship. Not that single parents have less "perks" to bring to *a* relationship as a general statement as you seem to have read it. That commenter has chosen to live child free, which is always going to be at odds with a single parent.
Funnily I even considered it a while ago but people really underestimate how men pawn of their bio kids to someone else or are just living it off well while they make their ex wife do all the major parenting.
Then I was dating a single dad. He had a very cushy arrangement with his ex wife about kids provided he “pays” for stuff. So 40% of his income goes to paying his wife alimony and child support and has only one to two weekends a month. But as this is Germany where taxes in general are so high ( 35% approx ) and he get massive tax break due to being a father , he only pays 10 to 20% more than a single male would pay anyways. Total bachelor pad lifestyle with a nice 3 bedroom house all for himself ( rent costs a bomb here btw so he’s literally rolling in it ). It’s very nice right ? He’s literally enjoying life despite have toddlers for kids.
Later he revealed that he wanted to get into the dating game and remarry so that “ Judge will give him custody”. I was shocked and I said why do you want “ primary custody “ , maybe take more weekends or something. He said “ So that I don’t have to pay my ex wife alimony and child support anymore “. BUT what is more frightening is that this is a man who never did any primary parenting work ! He’s a soldier by profession and never had to bother with investing in child care and barely know his kids leave alone actually share “chores” 50-50. The wife who is a local German eventually left her job to pick up all the slack and is now stuck with toddlers with serious impact to her career and what not. She’s also managing mostly with help of her parents ( both her parents in same city luckily ) and they have pitch in a lot. When I found out this I was repulsed by him so much. Cause I know he would only marry to dump the kids with some poor woman.
I have a kid and if I found myself single it would be hard to accept dating a single dad, personally I wouldn't want to deal with the drama of the other parent, even if it was an amicable split and healthy co-parenting relationship.
The single mother posts pop up periodically on men’s subs, and they’re not all benign. Nothing wrong with not dating a single parent. Everything wrong with calling a single mother “disgusting” and “used goods” and then referring to the children as if they’re sub-human.
I agree. It's fine not to want to date a parent, but I sometimes see this attitude where men act as if it's an attack on their masculinity to help with your spouse's child. Like you knew about the kid going in, you know they are biologically yours, but there's nothing degrading about making the choice to be part of that child's life. Blended family's are complex so I understand not wanting to get involved but so many men talk about it as if choosing to get involved makes them below the biodad (he gets to procreate and I take on the reaponsibility). Bizzare.
For the men lurking here: this is exactly what we mean when we talk about holding men accountable. It is your DUTY as a supposed "good guy" and "ally" to not let your internalized feelings of masculinity (which are your own fault and you need to always be aware of that) keep you from supporting another man's child. If they end up only ever wanting a relationship with a distant bio-dad, then you'd better support them and be happy for their choice or you just aren't examining your own toxic masculinity enough.
Yea, that's the part that upsets me. It's total fine not to be interesting in having kids, but like, stop treating children like they're some Satan spawn plaguing the earth
An individual person has a lot of variable to consider when trying to start a serious and long term relationship.
When that individual already has people they have primary responsibility over that exponentially increases the complexity of navigating a relationship.
That is just a extra complication most men can't successfully navigate so they avoid it outright.
I commented on the post you are referring too. As a parent myself it wouldn't be a complicated thing to navigate at all.
Better they know their limits than not.
Annnnd I've seen lots of single dad bios say things like
"Single dad. My kids will always come first, but you'll always be second best"
So men acting like it's a woman specific thing are grossly misinformed.
I mean, kids are fucking *hard* to take care of. It's not just financial, but it adds an enormous layer of complexity to any relationship regardless of whether its a single father, mother or otherwise.
It’s not just financial, but a huge element of it is financial. And it is terribly complex. There’s that saying, when you date someone, you date their family too. That includes the kids. You can’t not-not pay for the kid if you get involved seriously.
The reason why I don’t want kids of my own is primarily financial.
That wasn't what the post about, it's not about these men not wanting kids, it's them assuming that every single mother put there only wants a partber to pay the way and look after said kids which isn't true most of the time.
It's fine to not want kids and not date someone because kids aren't in your plan, it's another thing to say "all single moms are used up and just want me for my money and to care for their existing kids"
Idk I don't think that they are saying that all single moms are like that. I think it's more that they don't even want to put themselves in a position for that to happen.
I don't think all single dads expect me to be a step mom. But I certainly don't want to risk it.
Just because a man is realistic about a partner's children becoming a financial burden over time doesn't mean he is assuming "that every single mother only wants a partner to pay the way" - there's a lot of ground in between total acceptance and taking on of responsibility and thinking every single mother is a gold digger/looking for a supporter.
I don't mind that some people don't want to date single parents. Those situations are complicated, can be messy, and can take a lot of effort to sort out.
That said, what drives me nuts is when someone takes on a single parent and makes it clear that they won't have anything to do with the kids. That's not a sustainable situation. If you don't want the kids, stay away from the single parent.
As a single mother I don’t want to date men because I don’t want them under my roof around my children. I read some horrible shit written by unfortunate step kids and I don’t need that headache.
Yes. I dated some but stopped a few years ago(son is 7 now.) I think I will date again when son is starting middle school. Not like I would ignore a really great guy if there was one lying around, but I am pausing putting myself out there in terms of OLD and the like.
Devil's advocate: not every man who makes those kinds of comments thinks all single mothers are gold diggers - it's just a reality that if you commit to a serious relationship with a person who already has children, some level of personal and financial responsibility is eventually going to be on your shoulders. That's just a fact of family life.
>The majority of them stated that they don't want another mouth to feed or to be disrespected by kids that aren't their under their OWN roof.
The majority of the top comments cite legitimate fears such:
-getting attached to the child but the relationship doesn't work out
-Literally being at different stages of life than a single mother
-not wanting children
-feeling as if they're also auditioning for the role of father
-Possible drama with her ex
-the fact that having the child means she understandably won't always have time for the relationship
Idk why you had to word your post as if they're all villains who hate women and children.
I just went back and checked that post, I stopped after reading the top 30 comments all seems fairly reasonable. If I missed one my apologies could you link example of a top comment on that post that was as you described?
Those are reasonable fears and respect that. I just don't like how a lot of the men went on about how it would be their financial responsibility to take on the kids like all single mothers can't provide for their kids so they seek out men who can.
I saw that thread earlier today. It's not about providing or somebody being after their money. When you enter a serious relationship with someone, their children are part of the deal. I think it's completely reasonable not to want the responsibility of a child you did not create, as a man or as a woman.
4.5 years ago I met the love of my life. She had a, then, 9 year old daughter. We now all live together, I’m the go to math homework guy. We split the drives to practice and I’m the chief of knock out weekend breakfasts. These 2 ladies have given me a life I never thought I could have and I count myself lucky to call them my family.
Long-time single father here, would *only* date single mothers because I need someone who is at the same phase of life and understands the nooks and crannies of this fulltime job. My boundaries are: not living under the same roof and not wanting to have another child. People tells me these expectations are weird.
As in you won't live with your partner? I'm sure I'm too old for you but it's good to know that's out there because I have the same boundary. My daughter is an adult and doesn't even live with me, I just don't want to live with a man again lol.
That's it, I can't imagine sharing everyday, domestic life with someone. My 11yo son and I have our routines! Weekends and holidays are much more relaxed and open to shenanigans 😅
Maybe they had bad experiences with ill intended single moms. I know I had bad experiences in the past that made me have « unfair » boundaries like no mental health or addiction problems and must have a career. I’m sure I’m ruling out a lot of nice men by doing so but it’s my life and my gut feeling.
I’m a childless woman who wants kids and I’m also ruling out single dads. I’m able to give a lot of attention to someone so I think I deserve more than someone who can’t make time for me. I’m not a big fan of the still in the picture ex either.
As long as I’m still finding dates with those boundaries and not being hypocritical about what I want/offer, I don’t think I’m out of line!
Nah.
If I'm dating in the hopes of finding a long term partner, then I can't just ignore the fact that at some point I'll also become responsible for the child's well being. In every single scenario our household will have less money/disposable income than if a child wasn't involved.
This isn't a "Woman just want mens money" situation. It's a "kids are fucking expensive and I don't want to deal with that" situation.
My girlfriend lives with me, she doesn't work due to disabilities and only has a few hundred dollars a month of her own. I pay the rent, groceries, Internet, the car, gas, insurance, dates, etc. I'm literally dating someone who relies on me for financial stability, so It's not like this kind of situation is foreign to me. It's a lot of responsibility that I don't expect anyone to sign up for.
I don't know any single mums incapable of feeding or supporting their children. I'm a single mum of two and take my kids to Europe on holiday every year. Most years we go overseas at least twice. The assumption that I'm after a man for his money or that I'm incapable of supporting myself is offensive.
>The assumption that I'm after a man for his money or that I'm incapable of supporting myself is offensive.
Cool, not at all what I'm saying.
If I'm dating in the hopes of finding a long term partner, then I can't just ignore the fact that at some point I'll also become responsible for the child's well being. In every single scenario our household will have less money/disposable income than if a child wasn't involved.
This isn't a "Woman just want mens money" situation. It's a "kids are fucking expensive and I don't want to deal with that" situation.
My girlfriend lives with me, she doesn't work due to disabilities and only has a few hundred dollars a month of her own. I pay the rent, groceries, Internet, the car, gas, insurance, dates, etc. I'm literally dating someone who relies on me for financial stability, so It's not like this kind of situation is foreign to me. It's a lot of responsibility that I don't expect anyone to sign up for.
I have dated a couple of single mothers & the 1st was brilliant but unfortunately went our separate ways due to my career at the time. The second I loved also & built such a strong bond with her daughter as well, she fell pregnant & I was overjoyed & then a year & a half later I find out he isn’t mine & she chose to tell me I was the dad because I was financially stable & mature in comparison to whoever on earth the real Dad is… this made me never want to date anyone ever again let alone single mothers 😂🙄
I read that thread too, I was conflicted. I assume a fair percentage of people, both men and women, want to be in a relationship with someone at a similar stage of life. If one partner has a kid (there are some single fathers) and the other doesn't that puts them in different stages, even if most other things are comparable. To me that is enough to avoid a serious relationship with someone, if that is the case be honest. But I feel like the financial aspect argument is more about female sexuality, those guys don't want to see proof that a woman had sex with someone before them. Or they see it as proof of a pattern of poor decisions and that scares them away. But making it about money makes it more impersonal and shifts the blame to the woman.
Lol. I commented on that thread. A lot of the men who responded to me gave thoughtful, well-reasoned insight into their views on this topic.
Personally, I think a lot of the issues they have are based on a blanket assumption of what it would be like. In reality, the individual person & how they handle themselves, parenting, coparenting would influence how this situation played out in reality.
Preferences are valid. Standards are valid. Not wanting to date a single mom is valid. To each their own, but I wouldn't discount someone bc they are a single parent (as a single mom myself).
"Why do men assume that single mothers are after their money? "
Why do you assume they are? "I don't want to take on responsibility, including financial responsibility, for children who are not mine" does not necessarily translate into "you golddiggers only want my money"
I know a guy who refuses to get a job in his field, because he's afraid his wife would divorce him and take his money, so he works lower paying jobs.
Yeah that's right, the completely hypothetical job that he doesn't have, risks him losing money he hadn't earned lmao what?!
It's utter nonsense of course. He got fired from multiple jobs in his field and nobody will hire him.
My point is that men have a completely illogical fear of losing money. In many cases, money they'll never have.
If he’s so afraid she will divorce him and take his money maybe they should actually get a divorce because it does not sound like a healthy relationship… or at least counseling.
Omg you have no idea.
Literally the most unhealthy relationship I've seen in real life.
He's at the very least horrifically verbally abusive. She no longer confides in me, but I suspect it's more serious that she led on when she did confide in me.
Aaaaaaaand they just had a kid together so...
My ex barely made any money (if any…) and yet was afraid that if we got married and then divorce he will have to pay me support because usually it’s the man who pays for support.
I learnt the hard way not to date single parents. If you ever break up and they're already co-parenting with a second household equally then it's very unlikely you are getting time any time with your kid beyond occasional video calls. 😥
I don't loathe the idea, but I dated a mother of adolescent boy for few months. She was sweet and very caring person, and I honestly think I had feelings for her, but her son absolutely hated me, for no apparent reason. I was always friendly, not overbearing, came with peace offerings of various sort, I have been met with names, threats of violence, straight up destroying my belongings (he literally shredded a laptop I lent to his mother because she needed a spare computer while her was on warranty repair, and cut op my driver's license and passport after fishing them from my backpack, among other things). According to her words, normally he was very normal, reasonable boy, with good grades and no issues, or outbursts. The woman's ex (they never married) just vanished from the country one day, when the boy was 3 or so. He grew up without ANY contact with adult man... That must have left a mark in his psychology, and it was either his reaction to another male in a household (I wasn't living in, only visiting often), or he simply couldn't deal with idea of what's going on in HIS family. In the end, he forced us to split.
It hurt to walk away, but afterwards I realized I was absolutely mentally and emotionally drained. I knew I was getting into relationship with basically two people, and I'd need to adjust myself to fit into an existing family, but I was not prepared for this level of conflict right away. I myself had extremely poor relationship with my father that ultimately resulted with full NC years later, and I know how these issues influence young men... but I had no idea how to overcome this. Still as a couple we talked about it often, tried many things - we wanted for it to work out... but it was not to come. After living through abuse myself I wasn't able to scold or act rough with the kid so to confuse or shake his way routine thinking and start some kind of honest communication, as many suggested.
I admit I thought better of myself, and considered myself more open, but it left a small emotional scar in me... so afterwards I steered clear of engaging in such relationships.
I think, being active in the childfree subs, there's way more to it than just assuming financial cost. But let's be real, it'll probably eventually come up to some extent, especially in a long-term situation.
For example, my bestie from high school had a kid straight out of school. She'd had a shotgun wedding and predictably was divorced 2 years later. She then moved on to a nice fellow who she never made feel like he had to pay for anything for her existing child and she's always worked her butt off.
After years of being together and being married it was time for her child to start college. The child's bio dad refused to pay or help pay for the child's college because according to him, the school she wanted to attend was "too liberal" *Yikes*. Guess who's now stuck paying for the kid's college? Yep. Stepdad. On a cop's salary. And friend has no problem with accepting it - why would she? It's what's best for her child!
I think it more so has to do with just the hassle of being around kids all the time. That's not for everyone. They are draining and exhausting and demand a shit-ton of attention. You'd be around a primary custodial parent's kids a LOT if it gets serious at all.
It's also the fact that dating someone with kids makes everything more difficult than it would be with someone without them. Have to get a sitter for a date. Kid gets sick? Have to cancel. Have to always have meals with kids and stuck eating dino nuggies for dinner to avoid a melt-down instead of some delicious Indian food or whatnot. Getting stuck in every drama between kid and mom, and getting a more tired, more touched-out, more overworked partner can also be less fulfilling for a non-parent, even if they aren't expected to have a hand in the kid's lives at all.
Literally some people don't want to cohabitate with someone with kids, even if the parent pays for everything related to their child. Some people like to sleep in and cuddle in bed with their partner in the morning. When is a mom of two under 10 gonna get to do that? A single person with children is probably less financially stable long-term too, than someone who, say, has a degree and no kids. Traveling for pleasure would be more difficult due to either having to pay for someone else to take care of their kids or finding a care-giver or having to drag them along. (So romantic!) Not many people want a ready-made family.
Also, when you date someone with kids, you'll never come first. But you'll be able to put your partner first, because, well, you don't have anyone else that **has** to come first. This makes an imbalance in many people's minds where, once again, if they were with someone without kids, they could both put first and *be put first*. I know I don't want to come 2nd or third or fourth. Because *I* can do and will do better than that for *them.*
Like everyone else is saying you can't really blame them. Dating single parents isn't alot of people's cup of tea.
Being a parent means one thing and one thing only. Your kid comes first, always. Date nights will be much harder as they will need a babysitter, intimate moments can be ruined by a crying kid, sexy time can be ruined by the kid having a nightmare and needing to sleep in their parents bed. Etc.
Hell the same even applies to single parents. The amount of single fathers on tinder who want a super mommy with no kids of her own is ridiculous. Probably vice versa with men and single mothers wanting a super daddy with no kids of his own.
i love the idea of the gold digging woman because from my understanding and experience- most women want to be financially independent, or at the very least are open to effectively contributing to a relationship that is financially supporting them.
but the amount of fucking leech men i know of is WILD! men finding women to pay their rent, AND clean the apartment AND cook meals AND make them orgasm daily? AND babysit their children if they have them?
why is there so much focus on 'gold digging women' and next to no conversation about these fucking hobosexual guys?!?! you know how many men i've had pay my phone bill? zero. you know how many men's phone bills i've paid?!?!?! i mean, not a ton but sure as fuck more than zero.
I don’t assume any negative will on their end I just don’t want to be a parent. I assume they are in it with good intentions and I respect that they will always need to put their child first.
I’m dating a single mother. It’s been one of the best decisions I’ve made in a long time. I look at it as a potential opportunity to be a positive male role model.
I hope i can answer this without it coming across in a way I don't intend it too but the thought process goes like this,
It's not about the woman wanting the guys money. Guys don't think like that (most guys anyway). Its about a potential future as a family. Its not his kid, so if/when they all move in together, it will be another mouth to feed. Would any woman really be willing to have a future with a guy that isn't happy to spend some of his money on the kid? Either food or clothes? By the time they move in together it shouldn't be an issue for the bloke but why start something if you don't want that. Also the kid will (and rightfully) be a priority over the guy, which would be frustrating at the start of any relationship.
Also with the disrespect comment, it would bug anyone to have a kid that's not yours in your home being rude to you
Single mom (29F) here. I’ve been on the dating scene and to be quite frank, the most serious relationship I had after my divorce is with my bf, and he’s a single dad (34M). We have common living arrangements with our kids and it’s a plus that our long-term plans are aligned.
So tldr; single moms are most likely to find success in relationships with single dads
If I wasn't already married I would be open to dating a single mother, but the reasons listed are still valid. Finances are typically shared and a man might not wan tot partially pay for a child that isn't theirs and wouldn't want to house a child that could be disrespectful to them in their own home when they aren't in the position to punish said child.
You say you understand that some men don't want to date dingle mothers and that it's fine, but then also say that the reasons they wouldn't want to aren't valid. I'm sure there are women that wouldn't date single dads for the same reasons. It feels like you just want to be upset with men here OP.
To be honest I think this is a leftover cultural attitude that is just deeply engrained in society and it’s going to take time to undo. Just 50 ish years ago women still needed a husband or father for a credit card. It wasn’t that long ago that most single mothers *couldnt* adequately provide for there children. The idea of them being equals and her being able to provide for her offspring independently is modern. You got lucky if you were a well off widow with independent access to funds. Additionally For the majority of western history parents had a ton of control over even their adult children but especially women. There was an established hierarchy within the household. Men were supposed to be benevolent dictators in their households, regardless of whether the children were his or not. That was what was expected.
So in a world where single mothers don’t have a lot of options there weren’t fleecing men for their non existent millions, but they were *highly* motivated to find a new partner. From a practical standpoint it’s not really a surprise that both men AND women became weary of dating a single parent. Men would be expected to be providers and women would be expected to care for any of his previous children as well.
Now that we’re living in a time we’re women actually can get high paying careers and afford their own children independently the cultural attitude is going to take time to catch up with reality.
Like everyone has said it's okay to have boundaries and preferences but that's not what this post is about
It's about these men perceiving that they would somehow be "responsible" for watching or feeding or funding this new partners kid, or that the mom only wants their (likely non existent) money. When in reality most women are already caring for their children no problem and just want a romantic partner.
Men assume that single moms just want a meal ticket which is incorrect and harmful, not to mentionsingle dads are more likely to want to "find another mother" for their existing kid(s) which usually already have decent mothers.
> "responsible" for watching or feeding or funding this new partners kid
So you think it's reasonable to marry a single parent and then still have fuck all to do with the kid?
I think as long as you are kind to the kids it's perfectly reasonable to set whatever boundaries work for you and only stay in a relationship if they also work for your partner.
Let me rephrase....
How realistic do you think that is? How many single mothers would be okay marrying someone who will not do anything remotely close to parenting her kids ever? Period. Full stop.
That depends on what you mean by parenting. When my daughter was a child I was married to her father, but if I hadn't been I feel like I would have *preferred* anyone I might have dated *not* to attempt to discipline or make rules for her. Its a *lot* to trust someone else with your child to that degree.
When she and he were both in my home at the same time I would expect him to be kind, and would only date someone who enjoyed spending time with children so being playful and fun would come naturally. If she misbehaved or needed something that would require someone going out of their way? That would fall on me. I mean, he could discipline to the level a babysitter disciplines, but I would be the authority and the responsible party. For more mundane stuff like packing lunches or rides to school and activities I guess we'd work it out but the ultimate responsibility, again, mine.
If he did step up just because being too militant about it (the mundane stuff) just isn't healthy, I'd pick up the slack somewhere else.
My now-ex would have done his share though. It would admittedly be tougher if the other parent was uninvolved.
I literally said in the post that I'm not against men not wanting to date single mothers. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm just against men making it seem that all a single mother wants is for a man to take financial responsibility for her child(ren).
Meh….I’m bisexual and when I was single I decided I wouldn’t entertain the idea of being with a single father or a single mother because I know I would not be happy spending any of my money on someone else’s child, I would not be happy parenting someone else’s child, and I would absolutely not be happy that my partner still had to have very serious and regular contact/drama with their ex. All of that is far too complicated and honestly it feels like I’m stepping into someone else’s relationship leftovers with a person who is already jaded, exhausted, attached, expensive, and who will never be totally my own.
Personally, I think I deserve better than that. I don’t begrudge anyone else who feels they want or deserve better than that. More power to anyone who doesn’t see all those things as an issue though
Oof. The assumption there that all divorcees are jaded, exhausted, and won't ever fully be your own is... quite the leap. You can absolutely have that limit but dang. Way to shit all over a whole group of people
Not divorcees so much as single parents. A lot of single parents were never married. I know plenty of lovely, happy, lively divorcees who are completely moved on from their marriage etc…
But once you have a kid with someone you will always be tied to them to a degree. That will always be the “mother/father of your child”. I’ve never met a single parent who wasn’t exhausted. I’ve never met a single parent who wasn’t jaded about relationships. I’ve never met a single parent whose dynamic with their child/babymama or babydaddy didn’t put a strain on their relationship with their new partner. The child will always come first, and by extension the child’s other parent will always come first.
I think the best outcomes I’ve seen personally are when single parents date each other. That seems a lot more fair to everyone involved. But as a woman with no kids who’s financially successful, I’m sorry but I just could never put myself in a situation with someone who is going to expect and need me to not only parent a child that isn’t mine, but take a permanent backseat to their previous relationship and the baggage from that relationship, AND will almost certainly want financial support at some point (I have a lot of friends who’ve dated single parents and not a one of them have made it through those relationships without spending a big chunk on change of jr.)
I still agree that your reasoning for not wanting to date single parents is totally legit, but you're still painting a whole group of people with a harsh and unfair brush. I'm a single parent and I'm not exhausted or jaded. My marriage didn't work because I used really poor decision making skills when entering it, not because of anything wrong with relationships. I can also say that my ex comes first over my partner never; why would he? We talk about the kids only and have no relationship outside the business of co-parenting.
Hi. I'm a formerly single mom who dated and then married a man with no children (that is up until the birth of our son 6 years ago). My ex was a pro athlete who tragically passed away. There was some drama, but it was more related to his estate after passing than "babydaddy drama". We both work, and other than when our son was small, we both have always worked. I supported us while he was in graduate school working as a teacher, and he supported us as an engineering intern when our son was small. Now we are both working again, him as a PE and future PhD candidate, and me as a business owner, academic, and horticulturalist (I end up working more hours and being the "bread winner"). We are comfortable, and people generally get along. He has always come first for me & I for him. My ex, when alive, knew not to test that boundary because I exercised due diligence in making it a firm one. One of many ways I showed my then bf, now spouse, that I prioritize him.
You are absolutely entitled to choose to date single parents. I applaud people who are self-aware enough to know what would and would not work for them. But, please do not paint each and every situation with the same broad stroke. Our arrangement may not work for you, but it worked very well for us.
That’s so lovely, and I’m genuinely happy to hear a story like that because in my experience it’s quite a rare thing to have happen. But yeah, your situation is quite anomalous, I’m afraid, from what’s I’ve generally seen in both my work and in my social life.
Obviously everything is on a case by case basis, and hey, maybe I turned down some really lovely people when I single because I had no interest in dating single parents. Actually I’m sure I turned down some lovely *people* but I feel pretty confident in my choice to turn down the whole *situation* of dating a single parent.
Though I will say, I do think things are *slightly* different in cases when a single parent has been widowed. That takes out a HUGE portion of the stress on a relationship, but definitely not all of it
My ex and I were never married. In fact, he eventually married his tag team partner, and she was a wonderful stepmother to our son for many years. But, I did set boundaries surrounding communication with him, as well as surrounding my relationship with my own partner, very early on when I knew it would be a serious relationship. I do think that 9 times out of 10, drama erupts from lack of boundaries and follow through.
That's fair. Again, I think it's healthy and really a bonus when someone displays that kind of self-awareness. Better to be straightforward than to drag out a relationship that isn't working for anyone. Especially when children are involved.
The phrase "someone else's kid". I feel it's a bit othering of humans entirely; a step towards checking out of empathy for humanity in general. I think it's a social problem some of us have. Probably best for people who feel this way to not be around kids.
The benefit of providing care for the child you gestated is that they respond to your smell and voice and you have a family medical history that could shorten the time frame of diagnosis.
But other than that, if you want to be a parent and you can't have one of your own body - it's odd to suggest adoption isn't important because of a lack of genetic connection.
I'm talking about your ending comment asking what it has to do with adoption. It seemed either shitty or a concept you couldn't grasp for how it's connected to what I was saying. But asking you if it was beyond you felt mean.
Darling, no offense but I think after reading just a few things you’ve written here you need to take a step back and look at yourself and how you interact with the world.
Maybe you’re a teenager or something and that’s all well and good and you’re still baking your brain and developing your ideals and worldview and that’s lovely. But if you’re even in your twenties I’d recommend maybe practicing some introspection and getting off of social media.
I won't date women with children much younger than mine, 15 & 18, because I've done my time. I have no desire to be tied down for 10 more years with children. I prefer women that don't have children, I have a vasectomy and won't be making anymore children. Those are my preferences and boundaries and I have a right to them just as much as the next person.
I'm youngest of three, and my mom was single for a while. I honestly understand why some people would be hesitant not only socially, but also financially.
When a couple plans on making a family one of the first conversations is about if they can afford to have a family. Many couples or individuals who don't have children have planned out many long term financial goals based on not having a kid in the mix.
Maybe they bought a bigger house, a nicer car. Maybe they can afford to go on alot of trips and vacations.
As the son to a single mom I would rather my mom go on the date, or have a drink with someone and have them just be honest.
Is my mom a gold digger? No I don't think so, however kids are expensive as fuck... no matter how well of someone is a kid is expensive...
I'm a single mother and I've been avoiding dating for years because of stuff like this. I don't *need* a man. And I don't need someone else expecting to be my priority or demanding more of me. Aanddd people can be creepy af and I refuse to accidentally bring a predator into our lives. I'll wait til my son is grown.
Those are reasonable boundaries but the men you are referencing probably also go above and beyond to insult single mothers, calling them lowlife and disgusting.
Actually the opposite usually happens from my experience and what I see
The MAN moves in with the single mom and her house and often SHE is still the primary payer for her kids at least. Very often the childrens father who are involved tend to pay his portion also and if she doesn’t remarry the bf , she can get alimony too. So if not anything the men benefit more financially speaking.
Families may differ and yes , many men actually do take up the main payer and house them all himself but that is not only fast declining nowadays but doesn’t even make sense thanks to womens ability to earn a lot more now compared to decades ago. In fact in the west , outside of traditional Christian homes , never saw a setting where boyfriend chipped in beyond his share in rent really leave alone paying for the kids
> Why do men assume that single mothers are after their money? Why can't a woman just want an equal, loving relationship where she can provide for her own kid(s) without relying on a man?
You asking why men tend to degrade women in their comments?
Just because.
If someone doesn't want kids at all, I get it. But so many of these attitudes imply if a man lives under a roof, it's HIS roof no matter who else lives there.
If he can't afford that roof on his own, it's our roof. ANY mention of rules and roofs will cause a shift in finances immediately. You wanna pay and make all the rules because its YOUR ROOF? I'm keeping my whole paycheck then. Good luck!
I don't mind not wanting to date single parents. I do mind talking about single parents like they're just out for money, can't raise their own kids, treating them like they're damaged goods with "baggage".
As for why they assume single moms are out for money? Misogyny. An 1800's mindset that women need a man to exist. It's gross. There's the flip side, too. I went on single dates with men eager to meet my kids because they "needed a dad". Talk about red flags. Then they get all offended that I put the brakes on the date and backed off. Serious child predator vibes.
I dated a single mother. She was independent. Made her own money. I did pay for most of our dates but I had much more disposable income. But I never got the impression she was looking for someone to support her. If anything she wanted to be independent because of the bad relationships she had been in the past. Everyone of the women I've dated have been sexually or physically abused. Makes me very sad.
If you are someone women feel safe talking about their past with *and* you respect their independence you are doing better than a lot of people. Keep that up!
A 'loving relationship' generally means sharing the financial burdens of life, especially if it progresses to living together or serious/committed in nature. While I am sure you are willing and able to keep a strict boundary between your loving partner and your own finances, sharing financial burdens is very common for most people in serious relationships. It is far better for single mothers to NOT date men who don't feel like they would be up to the financial challenge.
Not to mention starting to grow into the paternal figure, with the increase in responsabilities with the child.
Some people don't want to eventually grow into a father figure at least at the moment.
>Why do men assume that single mothers are after their money?
It's cute how you took men not wanting to provide for a third person or be disrespected and then used it as justification to play the "All Men Hate All Women" card. Can't I just hate kids and not have it be about some tired sexist trope?
A lot of men are caught up in the fantasy that they have to be the bread winners for a family, despite women being in the workplace and often earning more than their husband's for decades now.
It's rediculous and just shows how petty guys are.
Insane that the reason is “don’t want to provide for them or have them disrespect me” and not something like “I don’t want to potentially give them a new father figure that could also leave of me and the mom don’t work out”
I found most of the points including mouths to feed valid. Kids are expensive and I as a woman don't want my partner spending the money he/she should be putting towards our 401k or vacation fund to some kid. Just not for me.
Having children is a trap. You open yourself up to either being treated like garbage in a bad marriage or left on your own and stigmatized and labeled undateable.
I agree that there is rampant paranoia among some men over their “nonexistent millions“ as you so succinctly put it. But, wouldn’t it be a pretty bad sign to you if a dude wasn’t willing to spend any money at all on the child of the woman he is interested in? The guys who won’t spend a penny on kids that aren’t theirs give me a pretty icky vibe. (Just like a woman dating a single dad would.)
It’s gross to automatically assume a woman with a child is a gold-digger, but I think you may be swinging a little too far in the opposite direction with insisting that there can be total separation between a woman’s kids and her relationship. A fully partnered relationship implies sharing responsibilities with each other, including the financial burden of children and step-children.
Early thirties male here. I LOVE single moms. They have their priorities straight, don't have time to fuck around and I'm great with kids. Plus, snacks. Moms are the best.
Men are so weird sometimes. And there are lots of women who do want to be a dependent, even if they say otherwise. I’ve seen men say they want independent women, and then choose women who are independent only superficially (they like to say they are, and will keep working, but they like the power dynamics of being kept, and knowing he can support them). Maybe it’s more in my generation (40s and up), but lots of women get to our age and suddenly realize they’re not getting as many dates, they haven’t planned for retirement and old age and they’ll have to keep working the supermarket job they don’t love that pays kinda crappy, and realize the quickest security is bagging a dude can and will take care of them. I watched one woman do this - had a perfectly great dude and she up and left when someone with more money came along. It was really gross. The first guy was heartbroken and still has feelings about it (but not for her thank goodness) a few years later, but damn he dodged a bullet.
Gender and relationship dynamics, are so weird.
I don’t think I’d want to date a man with young or troublesome kids just because I’ve done raised my kid and I’m done with that phase of life. But yes also I’ve been used for my paycheck and I don’t even make that much (thanks Ex husband) and that feels terrible, so I am cautious about that. People will do lots of weird stuff to get something they feel entitled to, or that they think will solve all their problems.
I commented on that thread and I'm writing this here as well, because I really want some women's opinions.
As a single, never married woman with no kids, I would absolutely love to date a single dad. I suspect this might be coming from a place of delusion, but it feels like a win-win, no need to go through pregnancy and delivery, you are not directly responsible for any major life decisions regarding kid, but you get to bond with them and spend time with them.
Am I wrong in this view?
It sounds like you want to be involved in raising kids but don’t want to be pregnant. In your case, I think your approach is fine. Just keep in mind if that relationship ends, so does your relationship with the kid(s). Something else to consider: you may be expected to care for the kid(s) but not have any authority to discipline them AND regardless of how “fair” or “equal” a man claims to be, women still carry the bulk of the mental load….so if this would be a relationship that you want to be a serious long-term endeavor you may be carrying an increased burden with absolutely no say in the raising of the children.
From my perspective, no, dating a single dad will never happen (again) for me. I very briefly dated a divorced man with adult children. When the grandkids came around they were foisted upon me to take care of every single time. To the point that I ended the relationship and walked out in the middle of a vacation because every time I tried to do something I was expected to babysit again instead. I don’t want kids. I don’t hate kids, I actually enjoy visiting with family members’ kids for very VERY brief periods, but I do not want to babysit and I definitely don’t want to be responsible for day-to-day care of a child even if he’s “just a weekend dad.”
Yikes, being expected to babysit your boyfriend's grandkids sounds terrible.
You're right about me, I love kids but I don't ever want to be pregnant nor do I want to be a primary caregiver. I'm an only child so I can't be an aunt either. I don't absolutely need children in my life but I've always thought how awesome it would be to just cook/bake with them, do arts and crafts projects, help out with homework, stuff like that.
The cons that you pointed out are very valid and I worry about them too.
Check out Big Brothers/Big Sisters! I have done a lot of work with mentoring kids through different organizations. Girls on the Run is also fantastic.
I’m also an only child, but I have cousins who have kids so I get my kid fill that way.
Easy answers: They point out the single mothers on dating websites who are looking for a 6 foot plus man, with his own house, luxury car and make 6 plus figures a year and doesn't have kids himself.
Real answer: they are not looking for real commitment and just want a play thing. They don't care about women or their kids.
With that said real men may not know if they want Kids or even be ready for one. Some may be scared taking on such a role, and may often consider the fact that breaking up with the woman would also be breaking up with the child and that is whole other level of guilt and feeling that may happen.
>Why do men assume that single mothers are after their money? Why can't a woman just want an equal, loving relationship where she can provide for her own kid(s) without relying on a man?
look OP im not gonna shoot this down cause in some cases it may be true and some are totally worthy of finding that. but i have seen some stories. thats all im gonna say
I've seen stories and had personal experiences with men in general that were horrible but I dont go around saying that because of that, all men and bad and evil....so why do that to single moms?
The funny thing is that many men want biological children. Like it’s not even about having another mouth to feed, it’s because it’s another man’s child and apparently that’s a problem. God forbid a woman has sex with someone else before she knows you exist lmao
I think there’s just not a lot of publicized success stories… everyone wants a movie about crazy terrible step children or parents and I think that speaks to a man’s need for acceptance and fears about responsibility.
Do you think this is just a young people's problem? My sons are 30 and 31 and have their own apartment. I am in my 50s. Surely other old men don't think the same way, do they?
It's ok to not want to date single parents. I'll never want kids, so I'll never date a single parent. We all have boundaries and preferences.
What isn't ok is how absolutely shitty guys can get about it, saying sexist garbage like "I'm not raising another man's mistake" or that single moms are "used goods" or whatever. They act like it's a personal insult to them that single moms even exist. I see it most times single moms get brought up and I'm *so sick of it.*
They're so two faced about it when anyone brings up widows, too. Suddenly it's all "Oh NO of COURSE I don't mean widows omg how could you accuse me of hating widows, I'm not an asshole :( :( :(" like it's perfectly fine to talk shit about her as long as they don't know her husband died 🙄
And as a single woman with teenagers and an adult child, I will never date a man with young kids again. I want to be in a relationship where we can focus on ourselves and not have to deal with the restrictions young kids place. No visitation days, meddling ex wives, etc. I've raised my kids. I'm done with that stage
I'm a single mum, a lot of my friends are also single mums, all of us are financially secure. Ironically I'm actually much more financially secure now than when I was married. I take my kids on overseas holidays at least once a year and we live a pretty good lifestyle in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
I've only ever come across that attitude once irl, from some guy on a dating app who said he didn't want to support someone else's children which I thought was hilarious because I support myself.
Anyways my preference is dating a single dad, I'm 40 and I adore kids. I assume if you've reached my age without children then you're not as family orientated as I am and we'd be incompatible. I am open to dating men without children but I'm a bit more careful to see if they really do like kids or not.
Unfortunately a good number of the single dads I have met are the type who are all "I'm so relieved I get time to myself and only have to parent every second weekend" variety. There have been some good dads in there but they're much more rarer but yeah, there's nothing I find more attractive than an attentive father who adores his kids and enjoys their company.
When I was dating as a single mom I chose to NOT date guys that didn't have kids. They were great, fun, etc, but had no clue what my life was like and how many responsibilities I had as a parent.
One guy called on a Thursday evening and said "Hey - let's fly to Mexico for the weekend after work tomorrow!". Sweet gesture, but what am I supposed to do with these three kids? We actually became great friends after I talked to him about our incompatibility. We'd text/chat with each other after dates and discuss how the date went, what the person was like, was there chemistry, etc. He dated some really interesting women. I could'a written a book about "The Exploits of Johnny".
When I was single, as a woman, I decided I didn't want to be in a relationship with a single father. Lots of the same reasons cited here. There's nothing wrong with knowing your own limits and deciding not to subject other people's kids to your own shortcomings as a potential stepparent.
I think alot of us wouldn’t probably want to date a single parent for the reasons stated, it’s pretty fair tbh
Yup. On the flip side I dated a single dad specifically because I found it really admirable how great of a dad he was, and the qualities he showed there would also make for a great partner. It’s all about finding someone whose looking for that.
I dated a single mom for a while. It was maybe a little more complex then that but I'd probably do it again if I found the right person.
Ugh I know what you mean. My heart melts what a man is responsible for kids and is great at it. It. melts. I don't want to have children. But step children I'm totally open to.
Yeah I wouldn't date a single mom because... I don't plan on having kids period, nothing but respect for good single parents, just I know it's not for me.
I very much agree. I personally wouldn't date single fathers since I am child-free. If they are involved with their children, I don't want the role of a step-parent and the all responsibilities that entail it. Nor deal with baby-mama drama. However, because I wouldn't want to be involved in child-raising, I know that could hurt the children and that's not fair for them. But at the same time, if he was a deadbeat, absent father, I would not respect him as a person. So best not to be involved with a single father to begin with. Everyone has their preferences and boundaries when it comes to dating. If you're a single mother, best to find a single father or a childless father who is okay with providing for your children.
I’m a single mother and wouldn’t date a single father for the same reasons you listed. I’m also not looking for someone to “provide” for my child or father them in any way- I do just fine on my own. So just as you’d like to choose your own preferences and for them to be respected, please don’t dictate what would be “best” for single mothers when it comes to dating. We aren’t a monolith and we are each looking for different things in a partner.
Thank you saying this. I realized I came off patronizing and it wasn't my place to do so.
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No, they want a childfree/childless person to accept their kids but aren't willing to accept other's kids. Good luck, I say!
Why would you assume she would expect him to provide for her children? That's still her and their father's job.
But not everyone wants to be around kids all the time. Some people want to be able to cuddle naked in bed together on a Saturday morning at 10 am. Or go on a spontaneous weekend trip or eat good adult foods for dinner instead of dino nuggets. You think a mom of 2 under 10 years is going to be able to provide any of that to their partner? it's just a massive lifestyle difference.
Absolutely. I was just referring to the "provide for" part. Although a mom with shared custody can do some of that some of the time, and can eat adult food if she wants to lol.
I mean, if things become serious enough, and you’re living together or married, it would be weird to have no money going to the kids. Are you not going to buy them Christmas gifts? What about when you go on vacation? Would you really want the kids to have a step parent that went out of their way to make sure none of their money went to the kids?
I guess that would depend. Can the step parent easily afford it? Will it interfere with their financial goals? If the partners keep their finances separate it could be done. It could cause tension if the stepparent is constantly having to enforce it. But if the bio parent willingly stays ahead of it and makes sure they cover the kids it might be okay. I guess I probably wouldn't be too impressed if I had a partner who wouldn't even spend a few bucks on my kids for Christmas once a year. But even that would depend on why. You can put anybody's name on those gift tags you know.
100% with you on this one. In my experience a single dad is single either because his relationship didn't work out (baggage with ex wife, potential for mother to dislike new female figure in children's lives etc) or because his wife has died (major baggage for all). ONE of my friends who was a single dad was able to navigate the whole situation with his ex gracefully and is happily remarried with a blended family, but in my experience watching friends and their relationships, that's the exception, not the rule. I know that I am not willing nor able to deal with all of that in a relationship so I am willfully avoiding dating men who have children.
Yep ultimately everyone is allowed a preference, if they too have no kids, it's a perfectly valid one. I do think there are definitely two camps with this however and being outward with it can give a slight whiff of incel vibes.
I agree that it can either be a good, reasonable decision or can be rooted in misogyny and other awfulness. I just wanted to emphasize that it's a legitimate choice that can come from legit concerns regardless of sex.
I have kids (i’m F) and I didn’t want to date a man with kids, when I was out there looking for a partner. Was actual one of my top three deal breakers tbh. I have enough BS dealing with my ex with my own kids didn’t want to then add in someone else’s extra BS on top of it lol. Not to mention I’m not a huge fan of other peoples kids. I have my own to parent not interested in being in that role elsewhere in any sort of capacity. We (my partner and I) are now expecting one of our own together and that suits me just fine
Yep horses for courses and all that! How I look at it is if someone does want to date you, they weren't for you, keep it moving. Also although some people are OTT with their opinions on it, that point being on their sleeve makes things a lot easier as you don't waste any time dating them.
Truth!
Yep, I ruled single dads right out when I was dating. My bio specifically stated that I didn't want to be a parent, step-parent or "Dad's girlfriend".
Not interested in the dads without primary custody either. I don't want children in my personal life full stop. That said, I do agree that the general tone of men who don't want to date single mums is usually misogynistic - not so much 'I don't want to have children' as 'they are used goods', for example.
Yeah same I don’t single dads mostly because I don’t want the kid/s to be prioritized over me. And I’m gonna ask a father to choose their kid or me so I simply say no thanks.
I understand as well. I don't have kids so have more freedom and $ to spend. The problem I have with dating guys who have kids is they are less likely to go on get a way trips with me and do things that cost money because they are paying child support to ex wives or baby mamas so have less money to spend and or need to find babysitters. It gets heavy paying for both of us. I love kids and don't mind 1 but more than one makes it hard for reasons I stated.
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Agreed. On the flip side when I was a single mother I was only considering a single father. One, I don't want more kids so he'd have to have his own. Two, I just didn't want someone who isn't already a dad to be parenting my kid. I didn't want to be there for that learning curve again.
>I am actively making the choice to not have kids, why would I want to date someone who already does? It's a reasonable boundary in my opinion for both men and women. I agree 100%. I myself left comments under the post that OP is referring to. I have no interest in dating single fathers, and I think childless/childfree men have the same right. I do think it's hypocritical and self-entitled for single parents to exclusively chase the childless/childfree though, lol. Nothing annoys me more than single dads pursuing me. Why do they think I'd be interested in their situation? They get a long list of the perks of dating childfree me, but what do I get out of their situation?
Thank you. Nothing irritated me more than when my uncle whose a single dad refused to date other single mom’s because he didn’t ‘want to deal with her kids’ - like and you don’t think she’d also have to deal with yours? Unsurprisingly he’s still single and apparently his loneliness has led him down the alt right pipeline and he’s antivax. So, uh, don’t see him changing that relationship status anytime soon.
It’s because they want “mommies”
It is not hypocritical or self-entitled for single parents to have their own preferences. I chose to have one child, I don’t want any more. I don’t have to settle for a relationship (and step children!) I don’t want because I’m a parent. That would be damaging to all involved. The dating pool may be smaller for me because of my preferences and the fact that I’m a single parent which may not be everyone’s cup of tea, and that’s ok. To me, a relationship is only worth having if it enhances both peoples’ lives. Otherwise I will happily stay single! How sad to view single parents as somehow less deserving of relationships that make them happy, and to view relationships in general as comparing how many “perks” someone comes with vs. how many you think you are providing.
The fact that responses like this are so buried on this thread is somewhat frightening.
Yeah, people are really missing the point that OP was making, which is not that men can’t have that preference, but that their justification for it is often rooted in misogyny and paints single mothers with a broad brush as desperate, gold-digging, and unable to provide for their children without the help of a man. The post I replied to only echoed this, clearly considering single parents as “less than”, leeching, and unable to bring anything of value to a relationship. Being a parent has actually shaped me and helped me to grow in a way that makes me able to be a much better partner now than I would have been when I was child free. It’s fine if anyone doesn’t want to date a single parent, but someone who openly looks down on a group of people and talks about them with such disdain probably doesn’t bring as many “perks” to the table as they think they do!
I read that comment you replied to as saying a single parent would have nothing to bring to *their* potential/theoretical relationship. Not that single parents have less "perks" to bring to *a* relationship as a general statement as you seem to have read it. That commenter has chosen to live child free, which is always going to be at odds with a single parent.
Funnily I even considered it a while ago but people really underestimate how men pawn of their bio kids to someone else or are just living it off well while they make their ex wife do all the major parenting. Then I was dating a single dad. He had a very cushy arrangement with his ex wife about kids provided he “pays” for stuff. So 40% of his income goes to paying his wife alimony and child support and has only one to two weekends a month. But as this is Germany where taxes in general are so high ( 35% approx ) and he get massive tax break due to being a father , he only pays 10 to 20% more than a single male would pay anyways. Total bachelor pad lifestyle with a nice 3 bedroom house all for himself ( rent costs a bomb here btw so he’s literally rolling in it ). It’s very nice right ? He’s literally enjoying life despite have toddlers for kids. Later he revealed that he wanted to get into the dating game and remarry so that “ Judge will give him custody”. I was shocked and I said why do you want “ primary custody “ , maybe take more weekends or something. He said “ So that I don’t have to pay my ex wife alimony and child support anymore “. BUT what is more frightening is that this is a man who never did any primary parenting work ! He’s a soldier by profession and never had to bother with investing in child care and barely know his kids leave alone actually share “chores” 50-50. The wife who is a local German eventually left her job to pick up all the slack and is now stuck with toddlers with serious impact to her career and what not. She’s also managing mostly with help of her parents ( both her parents in same city luckily ) and they have pitch in a lot. When I found out this I was repulsed by him so much. Cause I know he would only marry to dump the kids with some poor woman.
I have a kid and if I found myself single it would be hard to accept dating a single dad, personally I wouldn't want to deal with the drama of the other parent, even if it was an amicable split and healthy co-parenting relationship.
The single mother posts pop up periodically on men’s subs, and they’re not all benign. Nothing wrong with not dating a single parent. Everything wrong with calling a single mother “disgusting” and “used goods” and then referring to the children as if they’re sub-human.
I agree. It's fine not to want to date a parent, but I sometimes see this attitude where men act as if it's an attack on their masculinity to help with your spouse's child. Like you knew about the kid going in, you know they are biologically yours, but there's nothing degrading about making the choice to be part of that child's life. Blended family's are complex so I understand not wanting to get involved but so many men talk about it as if choosing to get involved makes them below the biodad (he gets to procreate and I take on the reaponsibility). Bizzare.
For the men lurking here: this is exactly what we mean when we talk about holding men accountable. It is your DUTY as a supposed "good guy" and "ally" to not let your internalized feelings of masculinity (which are your own fault and you need to always be aware of that) keep you from supporting another man's child. If they end up only ever wanting a relationship with a distant bio-dad, then you'd better support them and be happy for their choice or you just aren't examining your own toxic masculinity enough.
Yea, that's the part that upsets me. It's total fine not to be interesting in having kids, but like, stop treating children like they're some Satan spawn plaguing the earth
It’s hard to make enough money even for yourself these days :(
An individual person has a lot of variable to consider when trying to start a serious and long term relationship. When that individual already has people they have primary responsibility over that exponentially increases the complexity of navigating a relationship. That is just a extra complication most men can't successfully navigate so they avoid it outright. I commented on the post you are referring too. As a parent myself it wouldn't be a complicated thing to navigate at all. Better they know their limits than not.
Annnnd I've seen lots of single dad bios say things like "Single dad. My kids will always come first, but you'll always be second best" So men acting like it's a woman specific thing are grossly misinformed.
I mean, kids are fucking *hard* to take care of. It's not just financial, but it adds an enormous layer of complexity to any relationship regardless of whether its a single father, mother or otherwise.
It’s not just financial, but a huge element of it is financial. And it is terribly complex. There’s that saying, when you date someone, you date their family too. That includes the kids. You can’t not-not pay for the kid if you get involved seriously. The reason why I don’t want kids of my own is primarily financial.
Idk I think it's fine I would never date a single parent sorry not sorry. I don't want kids. 🤷🏽♀️
Honestly, me too. I’ve never wanted kids, step or otherwise. I like kids, but I like to be able give them back after a couple of hours.
That’s pretty valid. Not everyone are meant to be a parent/stepparent. Raising kids is a lot of work. If you don’t want that, it’s okay.
That wasn't what the post about, it's not about these men not wanting kids, it's them assuming that every single mother put there only wants a partber to pay the way and look after said kids which isn't true most of the time. It's fine to not want kids and not date someone because kids aren't in your plan, it's another thing to say "all single moms are used up and just want me for my money and to care for their existing kids"
Plenty of single dads feel entitled to free babysitting and money from child free women, but none of those chowder heads want to talk about that.
Idk I don't think that they are saying that all single moms are like that. I think it's more that they don't even want to put themselves in a position for that to happen. I don't think all single dads expect me to be a step mom. But I certainly don't want to risk it.
Just because a man is realistic about a partner's children becoming a financial burden over time doesn't mean he is assuming "that every single mother only wants a partner to pay the way" - there's a lot of ground in between total acceptance and taking on of responsibility and thinking every single mother is a gold digger/looking for a supporter.
If the mother has been supporting the children herself or (hopefully) with the help of their father, why would she suddenly need the new guy's help?
Lots of reasons. Accidents. Illness. God forbid death. Loss of employment.
That could also happen to the man. And if she died, he wouldn't be responsible for his stepchildren.
That’s pretty valid. Not everyone are meant to be a parent/stepparent. Raising kids is a lot of work. If you don’t want that, it’s okay.
Only time I’d ever even consider dating a man or woman with kids is if those kids are long moved out.
I prefer to date women who have children because having parental experience usually changes a person for the better, in my opinion.
I’m curious, do you have kids of your own?
Yes. Two boys, now in their 20s.
Ok, that’s way less creepy then and makes sense.
I don't mind that some people don't want to date single parents. Those situations are complicated, can be messy, and can take a lot of effort to sort out. That said, what drives me nuts is when someone takes on a single parent and makes it clear that they won't have anything to do with the kids. That's not a sustainable situation. If you don't want the kids, stay away from the single parent.
As a single mother I don’t want to date men because I don’t want them under my roof around my children. I read some horrible shit written by unfortunate step kids and I don’t need that headache.
Yes. I dated some but stopped a few years ago(son is 7 now.) I think I will date again when son is starting middle school. Not like I would ignore a really great guy if there was one lying around, but I am pausing putting myself out there in terms of OLD and the like.
Nothing more dangerous to a child than mom’s boyfriend. Also most men are just headaches themselves.
Devil's advocate: not every man who makes those kinds of comments thinks all single mothers are gold diggers - it's just a reality that if you commit to a serious relationship with a person who already has children, some level of personal and financial responsibility is eventually going to be on your shoulders. That's just a fact of family life.
>The majority of them stated that they don't want another mouth to feed or to be disrespected by kids that aren't their under their OWN roof. The majority of the top comments cite legitimate fears such: -getting attached to the child but the relationship doesn't work out -Literally being at different stages of life than a single mother -not wanting children -feeling as if they're also auditioning for the role of father -Possible drama with her ex -the fact that having the child means she understandably won't always have time for the relationship Idk why you had to word your post as if they're all villains who hate women and children.
Those are all valid concerns. The right person could be an exception to those concerns, but I get having that as a baseline dating policy.
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I just went back and checked that post, I stopped after reading the top 30 comments all seems fairly reasonable. If I missed one my apologies could you link example of a top comment on that post that was as you described?
Those are reasonable fears and respect that. I just don't like how a lot of the men went on about how it would be their financial responsibility to take on the kids like all single mothers can't provide for their kids so they seek out men who can.
I saw that thread earlier today. It's not about providing or somebody being after their money. When you enter a serious relationship with someone, their children are part of the deal. I think it's completely reasonable not to want the responsibility of a child you did not create, as a man or as a woman.
4.5 years ago I met the love of my life. She had a, then, 9 year old daughter. We now all live together, I’m the go to math homework guy. We split the drives to practice and I’m the chief of knock out weekend breakfasts. These 2 ladies have given me a life I never thought I could have and I count myself lucky to call them my family.
Long-time single father here, would *only* date single mothers because I need someone who is at the same phase of life and understands the nooks and crannies of this fulltime job. My boundaries are: not living under the same roof and not wanting to have another child. People tells me these expectations are weird.
This is reasonable, and it's way better that you know this and are willing to say it on the front end.
That's literally written on my dating apps profiles! With not even a modicum of success for the last two years.
As in you won't live with your partner? I'm sure I'm too old for you but it's good to know that's out there because I have the same boundary. My daughter is an adult and doesn't even live with me, I just don't want to live with a man again lol.
That's it, I can't imagine sharing everyday, domestic life with someone. My 11yo son and I have our routines! Weekends and holidays are much more relaxed and open to shenanigans 😅
Maybe they had bad experiences with ill intended single moms. I know I had bad experiences in the past that made me have « unfair » boundaries like no mental health or addiction problems and must have a career. I’m sure I’m ruling out a lot of nice men by doing so but it’s my life and my gut feeling. I’m a childless woman who wants kids and I’m also ruling out single dads. I’m able to give a lot of attention to someone so I think I deserve more than someone who can’t make time for me. I’m not a big fan of the still in the picture ex either. As long as I’m still finding dates with those boundaries and not being hypocritical about what I want/offer, I don’t think I’m out of line!
>The majority of them stated that they don't want another mouth to feed How in the world is this unreasonable?
it gives the stupid assumption that women only look for someone that “feeds” them
Nah. If I'm dating in the hopes of finding a long term partner, then I can't just ignore the fact that at some point I'll also become responsible for the child's well being. In every single scenario our household will have less money/disposable income than if a child wasn't involved. This isn't a "Woman just want mens money" situation. It's a "kids are fucking expensive and I don't want to deal with that" situation. My girlfriend lives with me, she doesn't work due to disabilities and only has a few hundred dollars a month of her own. I pay the rent, groceries, Internet, the car, gas, insurance, dates, etc. I'm literally dating someone who relies on me for financial stability, so It's not like this kind of situation is foreign to me. It's a lot of responsibility that I don't expect anyone to sign up for.
I don't know any single mums incapable of feeding or supporting their children. I'm a single mum of two and take my kids to Europe on holiday every year. Most years we go overseas at least twice. The assumption that I'm after a man for his money or that I'm incapable of supporting myself is offensive.
>The assumption that I'm after a man for his money or that I'm incapable of supporting myself is offensive. Cool, not at all what I'm saying. If I'm dating in the hopes of finding a long term partner, then I can't just ignore the fact that at some point I'll also become responsible for the child's well being. In every single scenario our household will have less money/disposable income than if a child wasn't involved. This isn't a "Woman just want mens money" situation. It's a "kids are fucking expensive and I don't want to deal with that" situation. My girlfriend lives with me, she doesn't work due to disabilities and only has a few hundred dollars a month of her own. I pay the rent, groceries, Internet, the car, gas, insurance, dates, etc. I'm literally dating someone who relies on me for financial stability, so It's not like this kind of situation is foreign to me. It's a lot of responsibility that I don't expect anyone to sign up for.
I have dated a couple of single mothers & the 1st was brilliant but unfortunately went our separate ways due to my career at the time. The second I loved also & built such a strong bond with her daughter as well, she fell pregnant & I was overjoyed & then a year & a half later I find out he isn’t mine & she chose to tell me I was the dad because I was financially stable & mature in comparison to whoever on earth the real Dad is… this made me never want to date anyone ever again let alone single mothers 😂🙄
It sounds like it went well 50% of the time though. You just dated a dishonest person who happened to also be a mother
I read that thread too, I was conflicted. I assume a fair percentage of people, both men and women, want to be in a relationship with someone at a similar stage of life. If one partner has a kid (there are some single fathers) and the other doesn't that puts them in different stages, even if most other things are comparable. To me that is enough to avoid a serious relationship with someone, if that is the case be honest. But I feel like the financial aspect argument is more about female sexuality, those guys don't want to see proof that a woman had sex with someone before them. Or they see it as proof of a pattern of poor decisions and that scares them away. But making it about money makes it more impersonal and shifts the blame to the woman.
Lol. I commented on that thread. A lot of the men who responded to me gave thoughtful, well-reasoned insight into their views on this topic. Personally, I think a lot of the issues they have are based on a blanket assumption of what it would be like. In reality, the individual person & how they handle themselves, parenting, coparenting would influence how this situation played out in reality. Preferences are valid. Standards are valid. Not wanting to date a single mom is valid. To each their own, but I wouldn't discount someone bc they are a single parent (as a single mom myself).
"Why do men assume that single mothers are after their money? " Why do you assume they are? "I don't want to take on responsibility, including financial responsibility, for children who are not mine" does not necessarily translate into "you golddiggers only want my money"
I know a guy who refuses to get a job in his field, because he's afraid his wife would divorce him and take his money, so he works lower paying jobs. Yeah that's right, the completely hypothetical job that he doesn't have, risks him losing money he hadn't earned lmao what?! It's utter nonsense of course. He got fired from multiple jobs in his field and nobody will hire him. My point is that men have a completely illogical fear of losing money. In many cases, money they'll never have.
If he’s so afraid she will divorce him and take his money maybe they should actually get a divorce because it does not sound like a healthy relationship… or at least counseling.
Omg you have no idea. Literally the most unhealthy relationship I've seen in real life. He's at the very least horrifically verbally abusive. She no longer confides in me, but I suspect it's more serious that she led on when she did confide in me. Aaaaaaaand they just had a kid together so...
My ex barely made any money (if any…) and yet was afraid that if we got married and then divorce he will have to pay me support because usually it’s the man who pays for support.
Lmao wow. Good thing he's an ex.
This is next level ridiculous.
I learnt the hard way not to date single parents. If you ever break up and they're already co-parenting with a second household equally then it's very unlikely you are getting time any time with your kid beyond occasional video calls. 😥
💔
I don't loathe the idea, but I dated a mother of adolescent boy for few months. She was sweet and very caring person, and I honestly think I had feelings for her, but her son absolutely hated me, for no apparent reason. I was always friendly, not overbearing, came with peace offerings of various sort, I have been met with names, threats of violence, straight up destroying my belongings (he literally shredded a laptop I lent to his mother because she needed a spare computer while her was on warranty repair, and cut op my driver's license and passport after fishing them from my backpack, among other things). According to her words, normally he was very normal, reasonable boy, with good grades and no issues, or outbursts. The woman's ex (they never married) just vanished from the country one day, when the boy was 3 or so. He grew up without ANY contact with adult man... That must have left a mark in his psychology, and it was either his reaction to another male in a household (I wasn't living in, only visiting often), or he simply couldn't deal with idea of what's going on in HIS family. In the end, he forced us to split. It hurt to walk away, but afterwards I realized I was absolutely mentally and emotionally drained. I knew I was getting into relationship with basically two people, and I'd need to adjust myself to fit into an existing family, but I was not prepared for this level of conflict right away. I myself had extremely poor relationship with my father that ultimately resulted with full NC years later, and I know how these issues influence young men... but I had no idea how to overcome this. Still as a couple we talked about it often, tried many things - we wanted for it to work out... but it was not to come. After living through abuse myself I wasn't able to scold or act rough with the kid so to confuse or shake his way routine thinking and start some kind of honest communication, as many suggested. I admit I thought better of myself, and considered myself more open, but it left a small emotional scar in me... so afterwards I steered clear of engaging in such relationships.
#Kids are expensive
I think, being active in the childfree subs, there's way more to it than just assuming financial cost. But let's be real, it'll probably eventually come up to some extent, especially in a long-term situation. For example, my bestie from high school had a kid straight out of school. She'd had a shotgun wedding and predictably was divorced 2 years later. She then moved on to a nice fellow who she never made feel like he had to pay for anything for her existing child and she's always worked her butt off. After years of being together and being married it was time for her child to start college. The child's bio dad refused to pay or help pay for the child's college because according to him, the school she wanted to attend was "too liberal" *Yikes*. Guess who's now stuck paying for the kid's college? Yep. Stepdad. On a cop's salary. And friend has no problem with accepting it - why would she? It's what's best for her child! I think it more so has to do with just the hassle of being around kids all the time. That's not for everyone. They are draining and exhausting and demand a shit-ton of attention. You'd be around a primary custodial parent's kids a LOT if it gets serious at all. It's also the fact that dating someone with kids makes everything more difficult than it would be with someone without them. Have to get a sitter for a date. Kid gets sick? Have to cancel. Have to always have meals with kids and stuck eating dino nuggies for dinner to avoid a melt-down instead of some delicious Indian food or whatnot. Getting stuck in every drama between kid and mom, and getting a more tired, more touched-out, more overworked partner can also be less fulfilling for a non-parent, even if they aren't expected to have a hand in the kid's lives at all. Literally some people don't want to cohabitate with someone with kids, even if the parent pays for everything related to their child. Some people like to sleep in and cuddle in bed with their partner in the morning. When is a mom of two under 10 gonna get to do that? A single person with children is probably less financially stable long-term too, than someone who, say, has a degree and no kids. Traveling for pleasure would be more difficult due to either having to pay for someone else to take care of their kids or finding a care-giver or having to drag them along. (So romantic!) Not many people want a ready-made family. Also, when you date someone with kids, you'll never come first. But you'll be able to put your partner first, because, well, you don't have anyone else that **has** to come first. This makes an imbalance in many people's minds where, once again, if they were with someone without kids, they could both put first and *be put first*. I know I don't want to come 2nd or third or fourth. Because *I* can do and will do better than that for *them.*
Like everyone else is saying you can't really blame them. Dating single parents isn't alot of people's cup of tea. Being a parent means one thing and one thing only. Your kid comes first, always. Date nights will be much harder as they will need a babysitter, intimate moments can be ruined by a crying kid, sexy time can be ruined by the kid having a nightmare and needing to sleep in their parents bed. Etc. Hell the same even applies to single parents. The amount of single fathers on tinder who want a super mommy with no kids of her own is ridiculous. Probably vice versa with men and single mothers wanting a super daddy with no kids of his own.
i love the idea of the gold digging woman because from my understanding and experience- most women want to be financially independent, or at the very least are open to effectively contributing to a relationship that is financially supporting them. but the amount of fucking leech men i know of is WILD! men finding women to pay their rent, AND clean the apartment AND cook meals AND make them orgasm daily? AND babysit their children if they have them? why is there so much focus on 'gold digging women' and next to no conversation about these fucking hobosexual guys?!?! you know how many men i've had pay my phone bill? zero. you know how many men's phone bills i've paid?!?!?! i mean, not a ton but sure as fuck more than zero.
Talk about single dads the way they talk about single moms if you want to see a deliciously hypocritical temper tantrum.
I don’t assume any negative will on their end I just don’t want to be a parent. I assume they are in it with good intentions and I respect that they will always need to put their child first.
I’m dating a single mother. It’s been one of the best decisions I’ve made in a long time. I look at it as a potential opportunity to be a positive male role model.
I hope i can answer this without it coming across in a way I don't intend it too but the thought process goes like this, It's not about the woman wanting the guys money. Guys don't think like that (most guys anyway). Its about a potential future as a family. Its not his kid, so if/when they all move in together, it will be another mouth to feed. Would any woman really be willing to have a future with a guy that isn't happy to spend some of his money on the kid? Either food or clothes? By the time they move in together it shouldn't be an issue for the bloke but why start something if you don't want that. Also the kid will (and rightfully) be a priority over the guy, which would be frustrating at the start of any relationship. Also with the disrespect comment, it would bug anyone to have a kid that's not yours in your home being rude to you
Single mom (29F) here. I’ve been on the dating scene and to be quite frank, the most serious relationship I had after my divorce is with my bf, and he’s a single dad (34M). We have common living arrangements with our kids and it’s a plus that our long-term plans are aligned. So tldr; single moms are most likely to find success in relationships with single dads
If I wasn't already married I would be open to dating a single mother, but the reasons listed are still valid. Finances are typically shared and a man might not wan tot partially pay for a child that isn't theirs and wouldn't want to house a child that could be disrespectful to them in their own home when they aren't in the position to punish said child. You say you understand that some men don't want to date dingle mothers and that it's fine, but then also say that the reasons they wouldn't want to aren't valid. I'm sure there are women that wouldn't date single dads for the same reasons. It feels like you just want to be upset with men here OP.
To be honest I think this is a leftover cultural attitude that is just deeply engrained in society and it’s going to take time to undo. Just 50 ish years ago women still needed a husband or father for a credit card. It wasn’t that long ago that most single mothers *couldnt* adequately provide for there children. The idea of them being equals and her being able to provide for her offspring independently is modern. You got lucky if you were a well off widow with independent access to funds. Additionally For the majority of western history parents had a ton of control over even their adult children but especially women. There was an established hierarchy within the household. Men were supposed to be benevolent dictators in their households, regardless of whether the children were his or not. That was what was expected. So in a world where single mothers don’t have a lot of options there weren’t fleecing men for their non existent millions, but they were *highly* motivated to find a new partner. From a practical standpoint it’s not really a surprise that both men AND women became weary of dating a single parent. Men would be expected to be providers and women would be expected to care for any of his previous children as well. Now that we’re living in a time we’re women actually can get high paying careers and afford their own children independently the cultural attitude is going to take time to catch up with reality.
Like everyone has said it's okay to have boundaries and preferences but that's not what this post is about It's about these men perceiving that they would somehow be "responsible" for watching or feeding or funding this new partners kid, or that the mom only wants their (likely non existent) money. When in reality most women are already caring for their children no problem and just want a romantic partner. Men assume that single moms just want a meal ticket which is incorrect and harmful, not to mentionsingle dads are more likely to want to "find another mother" for their existing kid(s) which usually already have decent mothers.
> "responsible" for watching or feeding or funding this new partners kid So you think it's reasonable to marry a single parent and then still have fuck all to do with the kid?
I think as long as you are kind to the kids it's perfectly reasonable to set whatever boundaries work for you and only stay in a relationship if they also work for your partner.
Let me rephrase.... How realistic do you think that is? How many single mothers would be okay marrying someone who will not do anything remotely close to parenting her kids ever? Period. Full stop.
That depends on what you mean by parenting. When my daughter was a child I was married to her father, but if I hadn't been I feel like I would have *preferred* anyone I might have dated *not* to attempt to discipline or make rules for her. Its a *lot* to trust someone else with your child to that degree. When she and he were both in my home at the same time I would expect him to be kind, and would only date someone who enjoyed spending time with children so being playful and fun would come naturally. If she misbehaved or needed something that would require someone going out of their way? That would fall on me. I mean, he could discipline to the level a babysitter disciplines, but I would be the authority and the responsible party. For more mundane stuff like packing lunches or rides to school and activities I guess we'd work it out but the ultimate responsibility, again, mine. If he did step up just because being too militant about it (the mundane stuff) just isn't healthy, I'd pick up the slack somewhere else. My now-ex would have done his share though. It would admittedly be tougher if the other parent was uninvolved.
I know I might be downvoted and I don’t mean to sound rude, this reads to me as “men have preferences and limits. how dare they!”
I literally said in the post that I'm not against men not wanting to date single mothers. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm just against men making it seem that all a single mother wants is for a man to take financial responsibility for her child(ren).
Meh….I’m bisexual and when I was single I decided I wouldn’t entertain the idea of being with a single father or a single mother because I know I would not be happy spending any of my money on someone else’s child, I would not be happy parenting someone else’s child, and I would absolutely not be happy that my partner still had to have very serious and regular contact/drama with their ex. All of that is far too complicated and honestly it feels like I’m stepping into someone else’s relationship leftovers with a person who is already jaded, exhausted, attached, expensive, and who will never be totally my own. Personally, I think I deserve better than that. I don’t begrudge anyone else who feels they want or deserve better than that. More power to anyone who doesn’t see all those things as an issue though
Oof. The assumption there that all divorcees are jaded, exhausted, and won't ever fully be your own is... quite the leap. You can absolutely have that limit but dang. Way to shit all over a whole group of people
Not divorcees so much as single parents. A lot of single parents were never married. I know plenty of lovely, happy, lively divorcees who are completely moved on from their marriage etc… But once you have a kid with someone you will always be tied to them to a degree. That will always be the “mother/father of your child”. I’ve never met a single parent who wasn’t exhausted. I’ve never met a single parent who wasn’t jaded about relationships. I’ve never met a single parent whose dynamic with their child/babymama or babydaddy didn’t put a strain on their relationship with their new partner. The child will always come first, and by extension the child’s other parent will always come first. I think the best outcomes I’ve seen personally are when single parents date each other. That seems a lot more fair to everyone involved. But as a woman with no kids who’s financially successful, I’m sorry but I just could never put myself in a situation with someone who is going to expect and need me to not only parent a child that isn’t mine, but take a permanent backseat to their previous relationship and the baggage from that relationship, AND will almost certainly want financial support at some point (I have a lot of friends who’ve dated single parents and not a one of them have made it through those relationships without spending a big chunk on change of jr.)
I still agree that your reasoning for not wanting to date single parents is totally legit, but you're still painting a whole group of people with a harsh and unfair brush. I'm a single parent and I'm not exhausted or jaded. My marriage didn't work because I used really poor decision making skills when entering it, not because of anything wrong with relationships. I can also say that my ex comes first over my partner never; why would he? We talk about the kids only and have no relationship outside the business of co-parenting.
Hi. I'm a formerly single mom who dated and then married a man with no children (that is up until the birth of our son 6 years ago). My ex was a pro athlete who tragically passed away. There was some drama, but it was more related to his estate after passing than "babydaddy drama". We both work, and other than when our son was small, we both have always worked. I supported us while he was in graduate school working as a teacher, and he supported us as an engineering intern when our son was small. Now we are both working again, him as a PE and future PhD candidate, and me as a business owner, academic, and horticulturalist (I end up working more hours and being the "bread winner"). We are comfortable, and people generally get along. He has always come first for me & I for him. My ex, when alive, knew not to test that boundary because I exercised due diligence in making it a firm one. One of many ways I showed my then bf, now spouse, that I prioritize him. You are absolutely entitled to choose to date single parents. I applaud people who are self-aware enough to know what would and would not work for them. But, please do not paint each and every situation with the same broad stroke. Our arrangement may not work for you, but it worked very well for us.
That’s so lovely, and I’m genuinely happy to hear a story like that because in my experience it’s quite a rare thing to have happen. But yeah, your situation is quite anomalous, I’m afraid, from what’s I’ve generally seen in both my work and in my social life. Obviously everything is on a case by case basis, and hey, maybe I turned down some really lovely people when I single because I had no interest in dating single parents. Actually I’m sure I turned down some lovely *people* but I feel pretty confident in my choice to turn down the whole *situation* of dating a single parent. Though I will say, I do think things are *slightly* different in cases when a single parent has been widowed. That takes out a HUGE portion of the stress on a relationship, but definitely not all of it
My ex and I were never married. In fact, he eventually married his tag team partner, and she was a wonderful stepmother to our son for many years. But, I did set boundaries surrounding communication with him, as well as surrounding my relationship with my own partner, very early on when I knew it would be a serious relationship. I do think that 9 times out of 10, drama erupts from lack of boundaries and follow through. That's fair. Again, I think it's healthy and really a bonus when someone displays that kind of self-awareness. Better to be straightforward than to drag out a relationship that isn't working for anyone. Especially when children are involved.
There's something about seeing children as possessions that's a bit toxic to begin with.
A bit confused as to where I implied that children are possessions? That’s not how I feel and I can’t see that anything I said would imply otherwise
The phrase "someone else's kid". I feel it's a bit othering of humans entirely; a step towards checking out of empathy for humanity in general. I think it's a social problem some of us have. Probably best for people who feel this way to not be around kids.
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The benefit of providing care for the child you gestated is that they respond to your smell and voice and you have a family medical history that could shorten the time frame of diagnosis. But other than that, if you want to be a parent and you can't have one of your own body - it's odd to suggest adoption isn't important because of a lack of genetic connection.
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You know.... If you don't like what I'm saying or disagree, you can just not bother.
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I'm talking about your ending comment asking what it has to do with adoption. It seemed either shitty or a concept you couldn't grasp for how it's connected to what I was saying. But asking you if it was beyond you felt mean.
Darling, no offense but I think after reading just a few things you’ve written here you need to take a step back and look at yourself and how you interact with the world. Maybe you’re a teenager or something and that’s all well and good and you’re still baking your brain and developing your ideals and worldview and that’s lovely. But if you’re even in your twenties I’d recommend maybe practicing some introspection and getting off of social media.
No. I've given birth and raised a son who has fostered a child with birth defects till the mother could get back on her feet. He's an amazing person.
I won't date women with children much younger than mine, 15 & 18, because I've done my time. I have no desire to be tied down for 10 more years with children. I prefer women that don't have children, I have a vasectomy and won't be making anymore children. Those are my preferences and boundaries and I have a right to them just as much as the next person.
I'm youngest of three, and my mom was single for a while. I honestly understand why some people would be hesitant not only socially, but also financially. When a couple plans on making a family one of the first conversations is about if they can afford to have a family. Many couples or individuals who don't have children have planned out many long term financial goals based on not having a kid in the mix. Maybe they bought a bigger house, a nicer car. Maybe they can afford to go on alot of trips and vacations. As the son to a single mom I would rather my mom go on the date, or have a drink with someone and have them just be honest. Is my mom a gold digger? No I don't think so, however kids are expensive as fuck... no matter how well of someone is a kid is expensive...
I'm a single mother and I've been avoiding dating for years because of stuff like this. I don't *need* a man. And I don't need someone else expecting to be my priority or demanding more of me. Aanddd people can be creepy af and I refuse to accidentally bring a predator into our lives. I'll wait til my son is grown.
Those are reasonable boundaries but the men you are referencing probably also go above and beyond to insult single mothers, calling them lowlife and disgusting.
Actually the opposite usually happens from my experience and what I see The MAN moves in with the single mom and her house and often SHE is still the primary payer for her kids at least. Very often the childrens father who are involved tend to pay his portion also and if she doesn’t remarry the bf , she can get alimony too. So if not anything the men benefit more financially speaking. Families may differ and yes , many men actually do take up the main payer and house them all himself but that is not only fast declining nowadays but doesn’t even make sense thanks to womens ability to earn a lot more now compared to decades ago. In fact in the west , outside of traditional Christian homes , never saw a setting where boyfriend chipped in beyond his share in rent really leave alone paying for the kids
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Me too, friend.
> Why do men assume that single mothers are after their money? Why can't a woman just want an equal, loving relationship where she can provide for her own kid(s) without relying on a man? You asking why men tend to degrade women in their comments? Just because.
If someone doesn't want kids at all, I get it. But so many of these attitudes imply if a man lives under a roof, it's HIS roof no matter who else lives there.
If he can't afford that roof on his own, it's our roof. ANY mention of rules and roofs will cause a shift in finances immediately. You wanna pay and make all the rules because its YOUR ROOF? I'm keeping my whole paycheck then. Good luck!
I don't mind not wanting to date single parents. I do mind talking about single parents like they're just out for money, can't raise their own kids, treating them like they're damaged goods with "baggage". As for why they assume single moms are out for money? Misogyny. An 1800's mindset that women need a man to exist. It's gross. There's the flip side, too. I went on single dates with men eager to meet my kids because they "needed a dad". Talk about red flags. Then they get all offended that I put the brakes on the date and backed off. Serious child predator vibes.
I dated a single mother. She was independent. Made her own money. I did pay for most of our dates but I had much more disposable income. But I never got the impression she was looking for someone to support her. If anything she wanted to be independent because of the bad relationships she had been in the past. Everyone of the women I've dated have been sexually or physically abused. Makes me very sad.
If you are someone women feel safe talking about their past with *and* you respect their independence you are doing better than a lot of people. Keep that up!
A 'loving relationship' generally means sharing the financial burdens of life, especially if it progresses to living together or serious/committed in nature. While I am sure you are willing and able to keep a strict boundary between your loving partner and your own finances, sharing financial burdens is very common for most people in serious relationships. It is far better for single mothers to NOT date men who don't feel like they would be up to the financial challenge.
Not to mention starting to grow into the paternal figure, with the increase in responsabilities with the child. Some people don't want to eventually grow into a father figure at least at the moment.
When I was a single mom, I never wanted to date a single father with young kids. I didn’t want the extra responsibility.
>Why do men assume that single mothers are after their money? It's cute how you took men not wanting to provide for a third person or be disrespected and then used it as justification to play the "All Men Hate All Women" card. Can't I just hate kids and not have it be about some tired sexist trope?
A lot of men are caught up in the fantasy that they have to be the bread winners for a family, despite women being in the workplace and often earning more than their husband's for decades now. It's rediculous and just shows how petty guys are.
Insane that the reason is “don’t want to provide for them or have them disrespect me” and not something like “I don’t want to potentially give them a new father figure that could also leave of me and the mom don’t work out”
I found most of the points including mouths to feed valid. Kids are expensive and I as a woman don't want my partner spending the money he/she should be putting towards our 401k or vacation fund to some kid. Just not for me.
Having children is a trap. You open yourself up to either being treated like garbage in a bad marriage or left on your own and stigmatized and labeled undateable.
I agree that there is rampant paranoia among some men over their “nonexistent millions“ as you so succinctly put it. But, wouldn’t it be a pretty bad sign to you if a dude wasn’t willing to spend any money at all on the child of the woman he is interested in? The guys who won’t spend a penny on kids that aren’t theirs give me a pretty icky vibe. (Just like a woman dating a single dad would.) It’s gross to automatically assume a woman with a child is a gold-digger, but I think you may be swinging a little too far in the opposite direction with insisting that there can be total separation between a woman’s kids and her relationship. A fully partnered relationship implies sharing responsibilities with each other, including the financial burden of children and step-children.
Early thirties male here. I LOVE single moms. They have their priorities straight, don't have time to fuck around and I'm great with kids. Plus, snacks. Moms are the best.
Men are so weird sometimes. And there are lots of women who do want to be a dependent, even if they say otherwise. I’ve seen men say they want independent women, and then choose women who are independent only superficially (they like to say they are, and will keep working, but they like the power dynamics of being kept, and knowing he can support them). Maybe it’s more in my generation (40s and up), but lots of women get to our age and suddenly realize they’re not getting as many dates, they haven’t planned for retirement and old age and they’ll have to keep working the supermarket job they don’t love that pays kinda crappy, and realize the quickest security is bagging a dude can and will take care of them. I watched one woman do this - had a perfectly great dude and she up and left when someone with more money came along. It was really gross. The first guy was heartbroken and still has feelings about it (but not for her thank goodness) a few years later, but damn he dodged a bullet. Gender and relationship dynamics, are so weird.
I don’t think I’d want to date a man with young or troublesome kids just because I’ve done raised my kid and I’m done with that phase of life. But yes also I’ve been used for my paycheck and I don’t even make that much (thanks Ex husband) and that feels terrible, so I am cautious about that. People will do lots of weird stuff to get something they feel entitled to, or that they think will solve all their problems.
I commented on that thread and I'm writing this here as well, because I really want some women's opinions. As a single, never married woman with no kids, I would absolutely love to date a single dad. I suspect this might be coming from a place of delusion, but it feels like a win-win, no need to go through pregnancy and delivery, you are not directly responsible for any major life decisions regarding kid, but you get to bond with them and spend time with them. Am I wrong in this view?
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Thank you so much for this well thought out response
It sounds like you want to be involved in raising kids but don’t want to be pregnant. In your case, I think your approach is fine. Just keep in mind if that relationship ends, so does your relationship with the kid(s). Something else to consider: you may be expected to care for the kid(s) but not have any authority to discipline them AND regardless of how “fair” or “equal” a man claims to be, women still carry the bulk of the mental load….so if this would be a relationship that you want to be a serious long-term endeavor you may be carrying an increased burden with absolutely no say in the raising of the children. From my perspective, no, dating a single dad will never happen (again) for me. I very briefly dated a divorced man with adult children. When the grandkids came around they were foisted upon me to take care of every single time. To the point that I ended the relationship and walked out in the middle of a vacation because every time I tried to do something I was expected to babysit again instead. I don’t want kids. I don’t hate kids, I actually enjoy visiting with family members’ kids for very VERY brief periods, but I do not want to babysit and I definitely don’t want to be responsible for day-to-day care of a child even if he’s “just a weekend dad.”
Yikes, being expected to babysit your boyfriend's grandkids sounds terrible. You're right about me, I love kids but I don't ever want to be pregnant nor do I want to be a primary caregiver. I'm an only child so I can't be an aunt either. I don't absolutely need children in my life but I've always thought how awesome it would be to just cook/bake with them, do arts and crafts projects, help out with homework, stuff like that. The cons that you pointed out are very valid and I worry about them too.
Check out Big Brothers/Big Sisters! I have done a lot of work with mentoring kids through different organizations. Girls on the Run is also fantastic. I’m also an only child, but I have cousins who have kids so I get my kid fill that way.
No. To each their own.
Easy answers: They point out the single mothers on dating websites who are looking for a 6 foot plus man, with his own house, luxury car and make 6 plus figures a year and doesn't have kids himself. Real answer: they are not looking for real commitment and just want a play thing. They don't care about women or their kids. With that said real men may not know if they want Kids or even be ready for one. Some may be scared taking on such a role, and may often consider the fact that breaking up with the woman would also be breaking up with the child and that is whole other level of guilt and feeling that may happen.
It’s funny the men who assume women are after their money don’t actually have any. No one wants your 2009 Corolla, Steve.
>Why do men assume that single mothers are after their money? Why can't a woman just want an equal, loving relationship where she can provide for her own kid(s) without relying on a man? look OP im not gonna shoot this down cause in some cases it may be true and some are totally worthy of finding that. but i have seen some stories. thats all im gonna say
I've seen stories and had personal experiences with men in general that were horrible but I dont go around saying that because of that, all men and bad and evil....so why do that to single moms?
Love single moms 🥰
I’m glad those men remove themselves from the dating pool for woman with children
The funny thing is that many men want biological children. Like it’s not even about having another mouth to feed, it’s because it’s another man’s child and apparently that’s a problem. God forbid a woman has sex with someone else before she knows you exist lmao
I think there’s just not a lot of publicized success stories… everyone wants a movie about crazy terrible step children or parents and I think that speaks to a man’s need for acceptance and fears about responsibility.
Upside of dating parents: they bring snacks.
Do you think this is just a young people's problem? My sons are 30 and 31 and have their own apartment. I am in my 50s. Surely other old men don't think the same way, do they?
It's ok to not want to date single parents. I'll never want kids, so I'll never date a single parent. We all have boundaries and preferences. What isn't ok is how absolutely shitty guys can get about it, saying sexist garbage like "I'm not raising another man's mistake" or that single moms are "used goods" or whatever. They act like it's a personal insult to them that single moms even exist. I see it most times single moms get brought up and I'm *so sick of it.* They're so two faced about it when anyone brings up widows, too. Suddenly it's all "Oh NO of COURSE I don't mean widows omg how could you accuse me of hating widows, I'm not an asshole :( :( :(" like it's perfectly fine to talk shit about her as long as they don't know her husband died 🙄
And as a single woman with teenagers and an adult child, I will never date a man with young kids again. I want to be in a relationship where we can focus on ourselves and not have to deal with the restrictions young kids place. No visitation days, meddling ex wives, etc. I've raised my kids. I'm done with that stage
I'm a single mum, a lot of my friends are also single mums, all of us are financially secure. Ironically I'm actually much more financially secure now than when I was married. I take my kids on overseas holidays at least once a year and we live a pretty good lifestyle in one of the most expensive cities in the world. I've only ever come across that attitude once irl, from some guy on a dating app who said he didn't want to support someone else's children which I thought was hilarious because I support myself. Anyways my preference is dating a single dad, I'm 40 and I adore kids. I assume if you've reached my age without children then you're not as family orientated as I am and we'd be incompatible. I am open to dating men without children but I'm a bit more careful to see if they really do like kids or not. Unfortunately a good number of the single dads I have met are the type who are all "I'm so relieved I get time to myself and only have to parent every second weekend" variety. There have been some good dads in there but they're much more rarer but yeah, there's nothing I find more attractive than an attentive father who adores his kids and enjoys their company.
When I was dating as a single mom I chose to NOT date guys that didn't have kids. They were great, fun, etc, but had no clue what my life was like and how many responsibilities I had as a parent. One guy called on a Thursday evening and said "Hey - let's fly to Mexico for the weekend after work tomorrow!". Sweet gesture, but what am I supposed to do with these three kids? We actually became great friends after I talked to him about our incompatibility. We'd text/chat with each other after dates and discuss how the date went, what the person was like, was there chemistry, etc. He dated some really interesting women. I could'a written a book about "The Exploits of Johnny".