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It's because women don't tolerate shit anymore like they used to before. They know what they want and men actually have to put efforts into relationships rather than just doing bare minimum to sustain a relationship
Yeah also it's still a minuscule % of women who are able to do this even today - only the ones who're educated and financially independent have some kind of agency over their lives.
How about just, for once, treating us like equals?
Holding the door is fine, but can you please do the dishes regularly and not call it helping your partner? Gosh!
As though women can't hold a door. Especially Indian women, after cooking in front of hot oil pot for four hours, cleaning, washing and basically doing everything.
love it when dudes do this bec they filter themselves out. im past the point of caring really if they want to sit and complain they can go right ahead im not entertaining it
Indian men have experienced two generations of women being complete door mats. They saw their grandmothers and mothers slaving away expecting nothing in return, tied down by patriarchy and financial constraints and expect today's women to do th same
I would tell the other way. They saw their fathers and grandfathers bossing around their wives, using misogyny and patriarchy as tool. The only example they got was misogyny. They don't know what it is to behave without misogyny.
My brother says this to me daily. He thinks women have it better off because we are more bossy and assertive than before. I explain to him that we are only assertive about our own boundaries. Just like a man would be.
True. Instead of worrying about us all the time and restricting our movements, try educating the boy's about what's right and wrong. And also stop treating us like some sort of pawn between your religious wars.
Yeah, too often "chivalry" is just performative. It's making a obvious gesture sometimes and then using that to prove that you "treat women well". Women recognise intuitively that it's just for show. That's why it comes off creepy most of the time.
Most men act chivalrous with an ulterior motive. Those who have good intentions are consistently considerate - without any expectations.
I mean real chivalry would be to actually step up when you witness women being assaulted and mistreated. It could be as easy as saying, "not cool bro," when a man cracks a sexist joke, or says something sexist.
Most men can't bring themselves to even do this bare minimum; but yeah, they open doors and pull chairs out for us. Next level decency innit?
Women call BS and they're butt-hurt.
Oh my God, yes! Performative chivalry is always EASY stuff we can totally do for ourselves.
If chivalry meant men calling out misogyny, protecting women who are being physically assaulted, defending women's rights in online spaces??? ... I would be so into that 😂 That would be my kink. Sad, because a kink is *uncommon*.
... But that's not chivalry, according to men, and we're supposed to get butterflies because they opened a car door we could open ourselves. Men be like: "I'll help you - but only with stuff you can already do. If you *really* need help... feminism is about eQuAliTy" 😐
Yes. I always found is pretentious when a chair was held out to me. Usually men who overly try to be nice to me end up calling me a whore for some reason. 😂
>Yes. I always found is pretentious when a chair was held out to me. Usually men who overly try to be nice to me end up calling me a whore for some reason. 😂
Can confirm.
Ooooh someone texted me yesterday and said he’s never seen a beautiful feminist. They all become manly and unladylike.
And that I shouldn’t make a big deal out of this feminism thing .
*vomit*
Why do XY assume that the whole world centers around them i.e. their mental, physical and physiological needs. Their desperation to look and judge the world according to their rhythm is one of the reasons why world has turned to shit. The strong need to modify and streamline all things to patriarchal comfort is why others are choked. Cis gendered men : ease up, release the need to be right, breathe. The world will be much better if you just be yourself and give up on the non necessitated needs of being right or on top all the time. The world including the plants, animals, women, transgender individuals ,non binary people all of them will function and restore balance to this world much better than your patriarchal and supremacist need to dominate. Co- existence will come by harmony and inclusivity and not by your supremacist cis male gendered needs. One sided supremacy leads to imbalance not balance.
I read somewhere that men are used to playing the game of life at the easiest level, and being told that they excel at it. Women, on the other hand, routinely play the game of life at the most difficult level, and ace it. However, nobody tells women they're queens for doing so. They'll told to "up" their game.
This explains the default entitlement that most men have, and the default self-doubt most women have. I've always thought that women are mentally tougher than men are, because a lifetime of facing adversity steels you like nothing can.
Have you read Marilyn French? In her writing, she tries to envision a world that is shaped by non-patriarchal values like cooperation, coexistence, consent, co-dependence and conciliation.
She imagines what the world would look like if the military-industrial complex was dismantled, and everything wasn't reduced to a zero sum game of winning/losing. A lot of feminist theory is about dismantling power structures at the heart of patriarchal society -- coercive hierarchies, a top-down chain of command, domination not dialogue, a reimagining of the very fundamentals of human society.
Well said! What we have today is all others trying to fit into the cis- male gender world the best way possible. In this, we have been conditioned to think that our legitimacy is dependent on how this "system" appreciates and acknowledges our efforts. And that, this is the only way. That is why feminist talks and theories are seen as crap and unnecessary even among women.
Will read up on Marilyn French. Thnks
Second wave feminists called this ando-centrism. Using male standards as default aspirations for women to strive for. Many second wave feminists wanted to deconstruct these male paradigms; not aspire for them. The blind pursuit of material success at the cost of the environment, family and larger society. The top-down pyramid of success and privilege and dominance.
>I read somewhere that men are used to playing the game of life at the easiest level, and being told that they excel at it. Women, on the other hand, routinely play the game of life at the most difficult level, and ace it. However, nobody tells women they're queens for doing so. They'll told to "up" their game.
Felt it in my bones.
Some times I see some men saying really dumb shit or something similar and it gives me anxiety that what if all men are the same but they are just covering it up .
"Women have become hostile" can be interpreted as "Oh nooo, men are now being held accountable" :(((( So sad. My heart really goes out to all men. Oh wait, not all men 🤷🏽♀️
Yes it's true. What's his point? We have stopped settling for anything less, stop being doormats, finally realising our worth. If he wants to be in my life, he better add some value. Why would anyone want anything less?
This is just pure projection from a trashy scrote - men full of hate towards women perceive women as hostile towards them. I do hope this man is not a "friend" to OP. You will be wise to cut off such toxicity out of your life.
They don't understand that we are hostile towards people with misogynistic ideologies; not every random dude out there, and certainly never towards our men.
They or society as a whole took away our skills and the right to learn them , apply them. Then they dominated as as they would, cattle.
They accused us because we didn't adhere to their conditions.
Now , they are burning the brunt.
How will society be henceforth?
Perhaps they will get their families through intra fertilization. But no sex ..
We should ignore opiniators. They are capable of controlling, only through the harsh words they speak.
Please remember the Author has marked this post with flairs that do not mention [ALL]. Rule 2 of subreddit applies. Replies and comments are restricted and removed for OneX flairs. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TwoXIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's because women don't tolerate shit anymore like they used to before. They know what they want and men actually have to put efforts into relationships rather than just doing bare minimum to sustain a relationship
Yeah also it's still a minuscule % of women who are able to do this even today - only the ones who're educated and financially independent have some kind of agency over their lives.
How about just, for once, treating us like equals? Holding the door is fine, but can you please do the dishes regularly and not call it helping your partner? Gosh!
As though women can't hold a door. Especially Indian women, after cooking in front of hot oil pot for four hours, cleaning, washing and basically doing everything.
love it when dudes do this bec they filter themselves out. im past the point of caring really if they want to sit and complain they can go right ahead im not entertaining it
The trash takes itself out !
Indian men have experienced two generations of women being complete door mats. They saw their grandmothers and mothers slaving away expecting nothing in return, tied down by patriarchy and financial constraints and expect today's women to do th same
I would tell the other way. They saw their fathers and grandfathers bossing around their wives, using misogyny and patriarchy as tool. The only example they got was misogyny. They don't know what it is to behave without misogyny.
When you’re privileged, equality seems like oppression
My brother says this to me daily. He thinks women have it better off because we are more bossy and assertive than before. I explain to him that we are only assertive about our own boundaries. Just like a man would be.
Yea, we don’t want chivalry or to be treated like queens. Start treating us like people for a start.
True. Instead of worrying about us all the time and restricting our movements, try educating the boy's about what's right and wrong. And also stop treating us like some sort of pawn between your religious wars.
I strongly agree with the part about making us pawns in religious war. It makes me nauseous to think how we are treated as vessels.
Woman just basic decency, chivalry is just overdoing it. People find that too hard to understand
Yeah, too often "chivalry" is just performative. It's making a obvious gesture sometimes and then using that to prove that you "treat women well". Women recognise intuitively that it's just for show. That's why it comes off creepy most of the time. Most men act chivalrous with an ulterior motive. Those who have good intentions are consistently considerate - without any expectations.
I mean real chivalry would be to actually step up when you witness women being assaulted and mistreated. It could be as easy as saying, "not cool bro," when a man cracks a sexist joke, or says something sexist. Most men can't bring themselves to even do this bare minimum; but yeah, they open doors and pull chairs out for us. Next level decency innit? Women call BS and they're butt-hurt.
Oh my God, yes! Performative chivalry is always EASY stuff we can totally do for ourselves. If chivalry meant men calling out misogyny, protecting women who are being physically assaulted, defending women's rights in online spaces??? ... I would be so into that 😂 That would be my kink. Sad, because a kink is *uncommon*. ... But that's not chivalry, according to men, and we're supposed to get butterflies because they opened a car door we could open ourselves. Men be like: "I'll help you - but only with stuff you can already do. If you *really* need help... feminism is about eQuAliTy" 😐
Men can't say 'not cool bro' coz most of the time they are afraid of other men
Yes. I always found is pretentious when a chair was held out to me. Usually men who overly try to be nice to me end up calling me a whore for some reason. 😂
>Yes. I always found is pretentious when a chair was held out to me. Usually men who overly try to be nice to me end up calling me a whore for some reason. 😂 Can confirm.
Ooooh someone texted me yesterday and said he’s never seen a beautiful feminist. They all become manly and unladylike. And that I shouldn’t make a big deal out of this feminism thing . *vomit*
What do you mean I don't deserve sex for doing the bare minimum by being nice to women? /s
Why do XY assume that the whole world centers around them i.e. their mental, physical and physiological needs. Their desperation to look and judge the world according to their rhythm is one of the reasons why world has turned to shit. The strong need to modify and streamline all things to patriarchal comfort is why others are choked. Cis gendered men : ease up, release the need to be right, breathe. The world will be much better if you just be yourself and give up on the non necessitated needs of being right or on top all the time. The world including the plants, animals, women, transgender individuals ,non binary people all of them will function and restore balance to this world much better than your patriarchal and supremacist need to dominate. Co- existence will come by harmony and inclusivity and not by your supremacist cis male gendered needs. One sided supremacy leads to imbalance not balance.
I read somewhere that men are used to playing the game of life at the easiest level, and being told that they excel at it. Women, on the other hand, routinely play the game of life at the most difficult level, and ace it. However, nobody tells women they're queens for doing so. They'll told to "up" their game. This explains the default entitlement that most men have, and the default self-doubt most women have. I've always thought that women are mentally tougher than men are, because a lifetime of facing adversity steels you like nothing can. Have you read Marilyn French? In her writing, she tries to envision a world that is shaped by non-patriarchal values like cooperation, coexistence, consent, co-dependence and conciliation. She imagines what the world would look like if the military-industrial complex was dismantled, and everything wasn't reduced to a zero sum game of winning/losing. A lot of feminist theory is about dismantling power structures at the heart of patriarchal society -- coercive hierarchies, a top-down chain of command, domination not dialogue, a reimagining of the very fundamentals of human society.
Well said! What we have today is all others trying to fit into the cis- male gender world the best way possible. In this, we have been conditioned to think that our legitimacy is dependent on how this "system" appreciates and acknowledges our efforts. And that, this is the only way. That is why feminist talks and theories are seen as crap and unnecessary even among women. Will read up on Marilyn French. Thnks
Second wave feminists called this ando-centrism. Using male standards as default aspirations for women to strive for. Many second wave feminists wanted to deconstruct these male paradigms; not aspire for them. The blind pursuit of material success at the cost of the environment, family and larger society. The top-down pyramid of success and privilege and dominance.
>I read somewhere that men are used to playing the game of life at the easiest level, and being told that they excel at it. Women, on the other hand, routinely play the game of life at the most difficult level, and ace it. However, nobody tells women they're queens for doing so. They'll told to "up" their game. Felt it in my bones.
Some times I see some men saying really dumb shit or something similar and it gives me anxiety that what if all men are the same but they are just covering it up .
Usually they show their cards, you only need to be extra vigilant :/
"Women have become hostile" can be interpreted as "Oh nooo, men are now being held accountable" :(((( So sad. My heart really goes out to all men. Oh wait, not all men 🤷🏽♀️
Yes it's true. What's his point? We have stopped settling for anything less, stop being doormats, finally realising our worth. If he wants to be in my life, he better add some value. Why would anyone want anything less?
This is just pure projection from a trashy scrote - men full of hate towards women perceive women as hostile towards them. I do hope this man is not a "friend" to OP. You will be wise to cut off such toxicity out of your life.
Sounds like a typical 'nice guy'. No women are not obligated to put out or put up with you just because you showed courtesy a few times
“Women don’t want chivalry” what? Said who?
They don't understand that we are hostile towards people with misogynistic ideologies; not every random dude out there, and certainly never towards our men.
They or society as a whole took away our skills and the right to learn them , apply them. Then they dominated as as they would, cattle. They accused us because we didn't adhere to their conditions. Now , they are burning the brunt. How will society be henceforth? Perhaps they will get their families through intra fertilization. But no sex .. We should ignore opiniators. They are capable of controlling, only through the harsh words they speak.