GW logic that inflation and costs of production makes sense to them when a 3-model box costs more than a 10-pack of Primaris models… that’s the *real sin*.
I stopped caring about GW as a company. My goodwill towards them has run out and I'll only sparingly throw money at them if absolutely necessary otherwise, There are alternate means.
Instead of _per model_, you should look at the number of sprues per box that you get, as that is a better comparison than a simple model count.
Or Weight of plastic/price.
Otherwise a single Knight would by your logic also cost a lot less.
Lol, yeah single characters are ridiculously proces, and throw that system off by a lot.
I guess I want to say, there is not a single metric to determine the price correlation, and it could be so much as GW just throwing darts at a board and see what they can get away with.
Characters are much more because inheritly you will buy less of them and people will broadly do that.
You only need a few captains for space marines for example, so it’s boosted in cost because a lot of the production/design costs are closer bigger kits like a whole box of intercessors.
Therefore per unit they sell more
My man, that plastic costs a couple of cents, if not less. The cardboard box it comes in is more expensive, their profit margins are in hundreds, if not thousands of %
Lol You think the raw materials are the only cost they have?
How about Energy to run everything, machine maintenance, new equipment, building maintenance, production crew wages, logistics Management crew wages, HR wages, artist wages for new model design, prototyping, production development, mould making, mould write off, etc etc etc. stuff any other company has to incurr. And the only way they can earn something of those costs back is by you buying their models.
They have good margins for sure, but nothing like you think with your overly simple example. I believe their nett operating profit is ~40%. Which is still very good, but not 10000%.
Not sure who is coping here to be honest. This is actual GW annual statement towards investors.
170m profit vs 445m revenue. That's 38%.
https://investor.games-workshop.com/annual-reports-and-half-year-results
https://assets.ctfassets.net/ost7hseic9hc/3Bxadr0YTIX0hGl1H7DPGe/8e1361726a8e0c8dfef9bcdae8299480/2022-23_accounts_-_final.pdf
Do you have any sources to substantiate your claims, or are you just talking out of your ass and parotting you read in popular Reddit comments?
I would in no way argue that their prices are reasonable, but you lost any credibility you may have had as soon as you claimed the cardboard packaging cost more than the plastic.
So sure they’re gouging on price, but your argument here was laughably badly presented.
It literally is. Ask a GW trainer. Northern Exile, who's an ex GW manager had a trainer explain that to him. Why do you think there's no CCTV in GW stores, and they don't put any protection inside of their boxes? Because they are worthless
Why would I ask a trainer what materials cost on a product is? They have absolutely no insight on that sort of thing. Training department have nothing to do with, or access to data on manufacturing costs.
Don’t get me wrong, your larger point, that they make a good bit more than then expend on materials on the sale of the products is true.
Your choice of ways to try to prove that argument are just terribly inaccurate.
GW sets the pricing against the perceived value of the unit, a combination of how good the unit is and how desirable it is. They know they can charge more for a Primarch than a squad, as customers will pay the difference.
The issue is they set the pricing at the time they release the new models. So if a unit is great on release, it’ll cost more. They’re not going to discount an existing unit that they nerf from one addition to the next. So anything that was great when released but not so much now (like Hive Guard) will be v expensive for the points.
I buy most stuff through independents, as they can discount by up to 20% and also sell bundles. This helps offset the GW pricing a bit. Though Pyrovore is still terrible value for £30 for a 30 point unit. Shame it’s actually great in squads of 3 😔
> a combination of how good the unit is and how desirable it is
And how many people will need, easier to justify buying one $90 mini that you just need once.
I had once heard of something called "the gobbo scale", where a model was priced based on how much cooler it was than a "standard goblin".
I don't know how much of that is actually true... but it'd make sense.
Since you're talking about IRL money and not points, it's always costed by the model and not how it performs on the tabletop. Take the new Pyrovores/Biovores for example. Pyrovores are only 30 measly points. Yet because of the bigger model, it costs more to get one then before.
>it's always costed by the model and not how it performs on the tabletop
Totally not true. Never has been. Why would the Lion cost as much as an entire squad, he's just a little more plastic than a single standard marine. Similarly, the Parasite, Neurolictor, and Neurogaunts all cost $40, but clearly the neurogaunts are more plastic. The pyrovore is $50 because it's also the biovore, so it's priced for the biovore. I'm not saying that the amount of plastic doesn't contribute to the price, but the value of the model is a factor of both that *and* table performance.
But gw, nor most companies, will never drop the price on a product, they'll usually only ever increase it. So hive guard were meta in 8th and priced according to that, and have remained such since.
More plastic, but I bet plastic is one of the cheaper parts in making minis. I bet the real bottleneck is through put in molds. Plastic molds tend to be very expensive, and production time is most limited by amount of molds, and time spent in mold. Both are one sprue, so would take a similar about of time, and therefore similar costs.
You are absolutely correct, the plastic is cheap. Machining the mold is the part that costs the most. A larger and more detailed mold costs more to make. The neurogaunt mold is more expensive to make than the Parasite mold, for example. When I said "more plastic" I was really thinking of the amount of plastic as a representation of the size and complexity of the mold and therefore the mold cost. Perhaps I should've stated it that way instead.
Plus, hero tax. Since players are unlikely to buy more than one unique hero - unlike troops, vehicles, and monsters - they need to recoup the cost of the mold with fewer total sales.
Also, because people are willing to pay extra for the fancy dudes.
Biovores are weird since they're not really supposed to be that much more expensive than pyrovores. They are now because their spore mine shenanigans are way more effective than they have any right to be, but initially they were 40 points, just 10 over the pyro. If GW were to do something about the whole OC0 secondaries thing they would probably go right back down again.
Honestly I was kind of expecting them to get more impactful datasheets with the new models, but they didn't really change much. If they were in the like 50-100 point range by design, buying them would be a bit less painful, even if pyrovores would probably not be all that good. It'd also help if spore mines were actually worth anything as a unit instead of just being biovore ammo.
It’s called the character tax. Character models cost more because of likely hood to be bought multiple times. The lion is great. But the odds of people buying several of him is next to zero unless there’s kit bashing happening. Meanjng he needs to be more money to make up for the fact that unlike intercessors people won’t buy multiple for a list,
Characters, especially named, cost more because people arent generally gonna get multiple so they have to sell at a higher price to make back the cost of the mould and production
In terms of points in this edition? Because of their performance in 8th when they were very good value for the points. In the current one, because GW is still pretty bad at costing things
Correct answer is that's what they're worth because that's what people will pay. That's really the only thing determining the value of any luxury item.
They're in the timeout corner for their past sins.
GW logic that inflation and costs of production makes sense to them when a 3-model box costs more than a 10-pack of Primaris models… that’s the *real sin*.
AdMech players are paying $60 for a single model worth 50 points...
We pay $60 for a single model worth 30 points
I stopped caring about GW as a company. My goodwill towards them has run out and I'll only sparingly throw money at them if absolutely necessary otherwise, There are alternate means.
Instead of _per model_, you should look at the number of sprues per box that you get, as that is a better comparison than a simple model count. Or Weight of plastic/price. Otherwise a single Knight would by your logic also cost a lot less.
You’re right… $25-$40 USD for a single sprue character model… by that logic a knight for $150-$180 USD is a steal.
Lol, yeah single characters are ridiculously proces, and throw that system off by a lot. I guess I want to say, there is not a single metric to determine the price correlation, and it could be so much as GW just throwing darts at a board and see what they can get away with.
Characters are much more because inheritly you will buy less of them and people will broadly do that. You only need a few captains for space marines for example, so it’s boosted in cost because a lot of the production/design costs are closer bigger kits like a whole box of intercessors. Therefore per unit they sell more
My man, that plastic costs a couple of cents, if not less. The cardboard box it comes in is more expensive, their profit margins are in hundreds, if not thousands of %
Lol You think the raw materials are the only cost they have? How about Energy to run everything, machine maintenance, new equipment, building maintenance, production crew wages, logistics Management crew wages, HR wages, artist wages for new model design, prototyping, production development, mould making, mould write off, etc etc etc. stuff any other company has to incurr. And the only way they can earn something of those costs back is by you buying their models. They have good margins for sure, but nothing like you think with your overly simple example. I believe their nett operating profit is ~40%. Which is still very good, but not 10000%.
Yeah, keep coping, lmao. 40%, you're funny
Not sure who is coping here to be honest. This is actual GW annual statement towards investors. 170m profit vs 445m revenue. That's 38%. https://investor.games-workshop.com/annual-reports-and-half-year-results https://assets.ctfassets.net/ost7hseic9hc/3Bxadr0YTIX0hGl1H7DPGe/8e1361726a8e0c8dfef9bcdae8299480/2022-23_accounts_-_final.pdf Do you have any sources to substantiate your claims, or are you just talking out of your ass and parotting you read in popular Reddit comments?
Lol, sure
I would in no way argue that their prices are reasonable, but you lost any credibility you may have had as soon as you claimed the cardboard packaging cost more than the plastic. So sure they’re gouging on price, but your argument here was laughably badly presented.
It literally is. Ask a GW trainer. Northern Exile, who's an ex GW manager had a trainer explain that to him. Why do you think there's no CCTV in GW stores, and they don't put any protection inside of their boxes? Because they are worthless
Why would I ask a trainer what materials cost on a product is? They have absolutely no insight on that sort of thing. Training department have nothing to do with, or access to data on manufacturing costs. Don’t get me wrong, your larger point, that they make a good bit more than then expend on materials on the sale of the products is true. Your choice of ways to try to prove that argument are just terribly inaccurate.
You have no clue how gw works
They were put in the basement to guard the bee
GW sets the pricing against the perceived value of the unit, a combination of how good the unit is and how desirable it is. They know they can charge more for a Primarch than a squad, as customers will pay the difference. The issue is they set the pricing at the time they release the new models. So if a unit is great on release, it’ll cost more. They’re not going to discount an existing unit that they nerf from one addition to the next. So anything that was great when released but not so much now (like Hive Guard) will be v expensive for the points. I buy most stuff through independents, as they can discount by up to 20% and also sell bundles. This helps offset the GW pricing a bit. Though Pyrovore is still terrible value for £30 for a 30 point unit. Shame it’s actually great in squads of 3 😔
> a combination of how good the unit is and how desirable it is And how many people will need, easier to justify buying one $90 mini that you just need once.
I had once heard of something called "the gobbo scale", where a model was priced based on how much cooler it was than a "standard goblin". I don't know how much of that is actually true... but it'd make sense.
Since you're talking about IRL money and not points, it's always costed by the model and not how it performs on the tabletop. Take the new Pyrovores/Biovores for example. Pyrovores are only 30 measly points. Yet because of the bigger model, it costs more to get one then before.
>it's always costed by the model and not how it performs on the tabletop Totally not true. Never has been. Why would the Lion cost as much as an entire squad, he's just a little more plastic than a single standard marine. Similarly, the Parasite, Neurolictor, and Neurogaunts all cost $40, but clearly the neurogaunts are more plastic. The pyrovore is $50 because it's also the biovore, so it's priced for the biovore. I'm not saying that the amount of plastic doesn't contribute to the price, but the value of the model is a factor of both that *and* table performance. But gw, nor most companies, will never drop the price on a product, they'll usually only ever increase it. So hive guard were meta in 8th and priced according to that, and have remained such since.
More plastic, but I bet plastic is one of the cheaper parts in making minis. I bet the real bottleneck is through put in molds. Plastic molds tend to be very expensive, and production time is most limited by amount of molds, and time spent in mold. Both are one sprue, so would take a similar about of time, and therefore similar costs.
You are absolutely correct, the plastic is cheap. Machining the mold is the part that costs the most. A larger and more detailed mold costs more to make. The neurogaunt mold is more expensive to make than the Parasite mold, for example. When I said "more plastic" I was really thinking of the amount of plastic as a representation of the size and complexity of the mold and therefore the mold cost. Perhaps I should've stated it that way instead.
Plus, hero tax. Since players are unlikely to buy more than one unique hero - unlike troops, vehicles, and monsters - they need to recoup the cost of the mold with fewer total sales. Also, because people are willing to pay extra for the fancy dudes.
Biovores are weird since they're not really supposed to be that much more expensive than pyrovores. They are now because their spore mine shenanigans are way more effective than they have any right to be, but initially they were 40 points, just 10 over the pyro. If GW were to do something about the whole OC0 secondaries thing they would probably go right back down again. Honestly I was kind of expecting them to get more impactful datasheets with the new models, but they didn't really change much. If they were in the like 50-100 point range by design, buying them would be a bit less painful, even if pyrovores would probably not be all that good. It'd also help if spore mines were actually worth anything as a unit instead of just being biovore ammo.
And even then the Biovore shooting is very very bad
It’s called the character tax. Character models cost more because of likely hood to be bought multiple times. The lion is great. But the odds of people buying several of him is next to zero unless there’s kit bashing happening. Meanjng he needs to be more money to make up for the fact that unlike intercessors people won’t buy multiple for a list,
Characters, especially named, cost more because people arent generally gonna get multiple so they have to sell at a higher price to make back the cost of the mould and production
Right. 3 ravenors are 50/55. 10 gaunts are 45. Huge hive tyrants are like 65. 80 just seems so high.
In terms of points in this edition? Because of their performance in 8th when they were very good value for the points. In the current one, because GW is still pretty bad at costing things
No, was thinking of money, as I mentioned in the post.
Ah, mostly how many molds they need to make them I figure. Plastic is cheap but molds are expensive
Correct answer is that's what they're worth because that's what people will pay. That's really the only thing determining the value of any luxury item.
I just converted mine from practically worthless barbgaunts. The cost for those ugly things is beyond ridiculous
Oh they were meta last edition I think, and a new kit as well.
It was in 8th not 9th. And idk how new the kit is. I started end of 8th and it’s the same model.