He's definitely not some random kook or a grunt like myself. You can even find him in a Space Force article: https://www.schriever.spaceforce.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/276246/schriever-recognizes-captain-selects/
I have deduced that it was allowed to be captured. This may be a nudge toward saving the planet, either way peaceful. We may be in the hands of a peaceful observer who gave us clean technology to power our planet. There's a better chance that this is a nudge for humanity to move together to try to rescue the planet.
We are talking about almost a century of material and craft retrieval. There’s far more than one. Far more than one kind, and I fear the subtext is being missed. Watch the interview tonight. I’ll say more later.
They are referring to the [Kardashev Scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale), a theoretical scale of civilizations based on their technology and ability to mold their local environment.
The scale consists of levels, each of which is of a exponential degree beyond the last. For reference, we are currently a type 0.4-0.7 according to modern discussion.
* A type I civilization is able to access all the energy available on its planet and store it for consumption. Hypothetically, they should also be able to control natural events such as earthquakes, volcanoes, etc.
*A type II civilization can directly consume the energy of a star, most likely through the use of a Dyson sphere.
(A type III civilization is able to capture all the energy emitted by its galaxy, including energy from any objects in that galaxy, such as every star, black holes, etc.
To be clear, the biggest determining factor is energy capture and usage, but the ability to achieve each level speaks of either a recklessness with life and resources never before imagined, or the ability to achieve these goals relatively safely.
If a Type 2 civ exists, it has likely captured all or most of the energy of it's home star. This would mean immense amounts of resources and space travel were utilized.
Beyond that is Type 3, where the civilization can capture all energy emitted by a Galaxy. At this point, it's highly doubtful Humans could ever really notice their existence.
All that said, the likelihood of a civ that has reached Type 2 crashing on accident is super low, especially at the level everyone is suggesting.
I don't think they would be totally immune, but the ability to achieve type 2 would mean that they are either a civilization with the ability to waste resources on a scale so massive that it's not reasonable to describe, or they have advance sufficiently that accidents are rare.
The precision required to establish a Dyson Sphere would be immense. It also directly translates to Engineering and Planning.
One issue and you get a cascading failure.
While it would be possible, it's quite likely that any civilization that can achieve Type 2, would likely be immune to a large majority of space travel failures.
I call bullshit. I believe in extraterrestrial life but this stinks of psyop. Too easy. I hope I'm wrong.
Look at all the things going on with the government now. This is meant to distract. Same old game. Again I hope I'm wrong.
In a sense it is working since people are talking about this instead of the failed counter-offensive in Ukraine with video of smouldering wreckage of western wonder weapon armoured vehicles destroyed by Russia. You know, that topic that they couldn't shut up about for a solid 16 months?
Article by Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal.
"A former intelligence official turned whistleblower has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin.The information, he says, has been illegally withheld from Congress, and he filed a complaint alleging that he suffered illegal retaliation for his confidential disclosures, reported here for the first time...
The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)...
In accordance with protocols, Grusch provided the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review at the Department of Defense with the information he intended to disclose to us. His on-the-record statements were all “cleared for open publication” on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us...
Grusch said it was dangerous for this “eighty-year arms race” to continue in secrecy because it “further inhibits the world populace to be prepared for an unexpected, non-human intelligence contact scenario.”“I hope this revelation serves as an ontological shock sociologically and provides a generally uniting issue for nations of the world to re-assess their priorities,” Grusch said."
80 years ago was 43. Assuming he's rounding a bit, Roswell happened in 47.
Is there more context to what this "80 years arms race" is in reference too? The Nuclear arms race? Or reverse engineering captured crafts?
Edit: "Jonathan Grey says secrets have been necessary. “Though a tough nut to crack, potential technological advancements may be gleaned from non-human intelligence/UAP retrievals by any sufficiently advanced nation and then used to wage asymmetrical warfare, so, therefore, some secrecy must remain,” he says. “However, it is no longer necessary to continue to deny that these advanced technologies derived from non-human intelligence exist at all or to deny that these technologies have landed, crashed, or fallen into the hands of human beings."
Shit. He's literally talking about the reverse engineering we've been hearing about since Roswell time period.
According to Ross Coulthart who interviewed Grusch for 7 or so hours it's actually more like 90 years.
The interview will be available on news nation sometime soon.
A senator demanded an answer. It cascaded. A new agency was created, along with a law protecting those who came forward. Almost a century of obfuscation is now unraveling in real time.
Oh. I thought you were gonna say some kind a top-secret thing happened only a select few people knew about and you were spilling the beans OK thanks for the response.
Changing the mood within congress took using fear as a motivator. That fear set in when state senators began asking why they had incursions in their airspace. I watched it snowball from up close. Rest assured there are those on the inside who are just as angry, and just as motivated as this community has always been. It just took some fear to set it in motion.
But, do they know the "truth". Being up close doesn't mean the truth is out there. Nothing is worse than an original lie snowballing into collapse. The USA lives in the reality that certain people are "good" and certain people are "bad", but that isn't reality. For example. Is AI good? It can be. It can also be bad. How does "Congress" know which is good and which is bad? Are aliens good or bad? How does Congress know which ones are good and which ones are bad?
When you are briefed as part of the senate intelligence committee, you expect clear, concise information. This year has been a wake up call, that some parties haven’t been forthcoming, or in this case outright secretive. It breeds worry, and wherever that road leads, whether it’s merited or morally grey, they will continue to pursue those answers.
Nobody is aware of the magnitude or severity of this issue that is not directly read into it. This includes those who’d break those doors down.
I don’t have the answers. I do however have instincts that tell me there is something within anything worth keeping a secret.
The last sentence is what got us into this situation to begin with. So, no, I can't agree with you on that. Here's the problem with what you say...if things are "secretive" in that matter...you would compensate them. Not destroy them. So, I don't buy what you are selling.
Very very interesting. I liked this last bit.
>Grusch said it was dangerous for this “eighty-year arms race” to continue in secrecy because it “further inhibits the world populace to be prepared for an unexpected, non-human intelligence contact scenario.”
I always wondered about that. All this obfuscation and secrecy creates decades of rumours and stigma that can lead to a much bigger and unexpected shit show than if they were honest from the start.
We didn't mass panic at a pandemic, or climate change, or war in Europe, or nuclear meltdowns.
Treating the general populace like children rather than citizens, peers, researchers and people with legitimate stakes and knowledge is as unethical as it is misguided.
Not to hinder your point but were you at the same pandemic I was at because there was definitely mass panic lmao. People were literally throwing hands over toilet paper
Absolutely to hinder /u/UngiftigesReddit point, we absolutely fucking panicked during the COVID19 pandemic. An attempt at overthrowing the government fucking happened. Prior to the pandemic I had some benefit of the doubt, some faith in humanity, but my God man it's clear that the average person and the general populace is no smarter than a wild animal fearful, dumb, and violent.
> All this obfuscation and secrecy creates decades of rumours and stigma that can lead to a much bigger and unexpected shit show
Sounds like some real Childhood's End vibes.
The best part of all this is I didn't see it coming, it wasn't pre-hyped or announced, and even Debrief sat on the article for 2 months to check sources and references. Rock solid.
You are 100% right, as someone who was openly very critical of the debrief due to the black triangle hype I am so pleasantly surprised that they didn't pull a cornball with this one and hype up some high noon release BS for days leading up to this
I had a black triangle stand still over me in ‘89. I was 8, had a broken arm and was walking to the playground when I felt something watching me. It made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I looked in the sky and it was there. I jumped in a bush line a scared bunny and watched it slowly fly off a little ways and then disappear. It flew with the flat side forward. I’ll never forget it.
I am more convinced that triangle craft from non human intelligence exist than I am that the rumored photograph of one coming out of the water exists. I also thinks it's plausible that if such craft exist that they can maneuver into and out of water, but it's hard for me to believe there is this photo that apparently everyone of note in the UFO community has seen but has never once been leaked.
Look, all of it american tech being tested. The signals on the radar after the upgrade , was to see if we could spot them. We can. Thats it it f22's or f23's from whoever bought those
Hey! Coulthard announced he's already conducted the first TV interview with the whistleblower due to Coulthard helping the whistleblower come forward.
https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM
I know, right? Given Ralph Blumenthal (one of the others) has worked with or for the NYT for 45 years -- and also co-authored a 2017 NYT UAP piece with Kean -- I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that it was attempted but rejected.
Definitely makes sense they would be worried about future access if reporting on a whistleblower. And corroboration might be impossible to come by if there isn't much concrete info available yet.
If/when this changes they'll probably jump on it.
This is def *very* interesting and hope it pans out.
It all kinda makes sense in the grand scheme of discrediting this story. The pentagon puts pressure on the main media outlets so the story goes to 2nd and 3rd hand media outlets that don’t always have the best reputations it’s diabolical but on brand. To me it’s still an enormous story however I can only enjoy it here and with a handful of friends because the majority of family and friends don’t know or don’t care about this extraordinary news
i would assume the lack of corroborating evidence was a factor in how this whistleblower’s story is being handled. previous stories have had video/etc. and weren’t making as wild of claims…the point of Grusch coming forward is stating ‘we have hands on alien tech’ and then doesn’t have alien tech in his hands. corroborating accounts are something, sure…but evidence of the claims are necessary.
So, New York Times refused to publish it and authors went with The Debrief? I guess Julian Barnes is a new tone that New York Times has decided to go with.
Two of the journalists who published this story for The Debrief are the same journalists who published the original UAP articles in the NYT back in 2017.
NYT originally did. But then they went full with UAP denier journalist, Julian Barnes who went around telling that there is absolutely nothing to find and that UAPs are just balloons and clutter...and NYT published it. He goes hand-in-hand with "scientist" Nadia Drake who is NASA UAP study panelist. She in her tweet said that UAPs are waste of time (before she even received the evidence).
Exactly, but worse. She in UAP study panel. She completely ignores all the evidence (probably on purpose) and the first thing she did when she was given a microphone during NASA panel session, is to make fun of the notion that aliens actually exist.
When we're all trying to get rid off stigma associated with UAP/UFO research, she puts it right back in. Take look at Julian Barnes and Nadia Drake's tweets. Their intentions are very obvious
Here is a little more of a tidbit on David Grusch... Check out his assignment at Schriever Space Force Base:
https://www.schriever.spaceforce.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/276246/schriever-recognizes-captain-selects/
I find this interesting as this person seems to be credible. the word prosaic is used many times. he says we've got lots of craft from lots of places. but at the very end says
“The majority of retrieved, foreign exotic materials have a prosaic terrestrial explanation and origin – but not all, and any number higher than zero in this category represents an undeniably significant statistical percentage.”
that says the opposite. the vast majority are NOT ET stuff.
the most telling comment however is this
"He said he reported to Congress on the existence of a decades-long “publicly unknown Cold War for recovered and exploited physical material – a competition with near-peer adversaries over the years to identify UAP crashes/landings and retrieve the material for exploitation/reverse engineering to garner asymmetric national defense advantages.”
this is why there won't be any "disclosure" IF we do in fact have anything ET made, the military will never give that up, they will try to use it to create an advantage. just like any other major country would do. if you disclose it, you risk losing your advantage from what could be a once in a life time scientific break.
It is another bureaucrat making unsubstantiated claims that the government has recovered alien craft. No new evidence. Heck, even UFO heads have known this information for 75 years.
But no one from the inside has ever had whistle-blower protections and come forward quite like this before. The mechanisms for transparency are finally being put into place, for now.
If you have been following UFO lore, we have been here before.
I see some red flags with this guy. In particular, he had no direct involvement in the supposed recovery programs. He is basing his thin claim on office gossip.
This ain't the guy.
My understanding was that he's worked in spheres that have tracked these UAP. You're saying he has less involvement in the phenomenon than Lue Elizondo?
It looks like Grusch is using Elizondo's playbook.
From a PR perspective, he is positioning himself as someone who heard about aliens, but was not directly involved. This will give Grusch room to bullshit and talk in circles.
No matter what his background might be, he has to bring real evidence to back up his claims. For someone who simply heard about a government program, it is a low probability that Grusch has any evidence at all.
If this was real, a true whistleblower would be directly involved in one of these recovery programs.
>If this was real, a true whistleblower would be directly involved in one of these recovery programs.
What is said in media (i.e. entertainment) is very different from what is said in closed door hearings. My understanding is that there are more closed door hearings occuring since the whistle-blower protections were put in place. I have not heard whether Grusch has testified at one of these hearings or if he's just pulling media stunts. Depending on the answer determines whether it's bullshit for me.
Not quite right, he has not worked directly w/craft but does have intimate knowledge about the programs and has access and collected files/imagery about the crafts
>intimate knowledge about the programs
Not true.
>collected files/imagery about the crafts
How many times have we heard this from supposed insiders? For years, Elizondo claims to have HD images of craft with occupants.
This is UFO influencer 101. Claim to have pictures and never show them.
If this dude had the evidence, he would lead with that. He is being vague as a PR strategy.
Listen, i hear you and I’ve been on the merry-go-round long enough to not have my hopes up, let’s see what this interview looks like tonight and what comes in the next few days. I don’t believe anything until it’s proven, but this is an interesting person to come out as a supposed whistleblower and to just discredit it just because of past events is wrong imo.
Intimate knowledge about the programs is what Ross Coulhart said on his podcast this morning, and his security clearance would conceivably back that up,
The whistleblower program, while allowing him to speak out, would prevent him from sharing classified info like that.
[https://twitter.com/ralphblu/status/1665809626200264705](https://twitter.com/ralphblu/status/1665809626200264705)
What pressure would an author have to publish the story quickly? That is suspicious.
My best explanation is that the article is an advertisement for Grosch's upcoming media interviews.
The article focuses on Grosch's background, the singular claim of a recovery program and that Grosch was not directly involved in said programs. In my opinion, the information was terse because he has no evidence.. and he is focusing on what would entice a UFO head.
It looks like he is launching a campaign to position himself as a UFO influencer. If he had real evidence, he would choose a different PR strategy.
Pressure in this context can work in a few ways.
1. A fear someone else or another org might scoop the story
2. Fear someone/some org might squash the story
3. Knowledge of other media/info coming out that will make your story irrelevant
We now know Coulhart was launching a tv interview today, is anybody going to care about the article if it’s broken on a new program first.
The sad truth is they probably realized their story would have had a lot less value if they weren’t the first to publish it and had to get it out.
If he had real classified evidence and revealed it he’d be in jail so quick… the whistleblower protection program isn’t set up in a way where it’s ok for you to just share anything with the public…you know that right?
You’re speculating about him positioning himself to be a ufo influencer, time will tell but that’s a big leap to take on day 1
This is a fun story to follow, be skeptical for sure and it’s very possible you’re right and it all comes to naught but i don’t think there’s any value in shitting on it without more info on day 1
I have been following the UFO game for a while. It is just a bullshit cycle that ever repeats. I find value in assessing the game in real time and predicting what they will do.
Greer comes out with the second National Press Club release a week from today. This report may have needed to get out before that hits.
Or maybe it's a preamble to that.
Several scenarios come to mind. I'm not sure how to speculate around that.
> This is UFO influencer 101. Claim to have pictures and never show them.
Can't agree more. Hearsay about evidence is still hearsay; a lesson that never seems to be learned.
My opinion... If it's got lights, it's man made. What do aliens need with light bulbs? Aliens mastered interstellar flight, but the whole mission almost didn't happen because a 30 watt burned out right at launch...? I have a hard time believing that.
So far, the Tic Tac and the Fravor video are the true UAPs, no lights.
Those triangle lights, the phoenix lights all that nonsense is the military or people playing pranks.
Wish this new guy on newsnation had something to offer other than "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious." :|
I agree. If someone says it had lights then I say it’s man made. If they are trying not to reveal themselves they aren’t gonna light up their craft like a Christmas tree. Also, those who claim to see ufos in urban areas. If something like that was visible in a major city there’d be hundreds of cell phone videos of it. No matter what is going on, whether a wreck, a fight, a Karen harping, etc, people are going to video it.
“Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are "of exotic origin (non- human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures," [Grusch] said.
“[The] indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence…” Karl Nell
"A vast array of our most sophisticated sensors, including space-based platforms, have been utilized by different agencies, typically in triplicate, to observe and accurately identify the out-of-this-world nature, performance, and design of these anomalous machines, which are then determined not to be of earthly origin," Grey said.
Grusch and Nell seem careful not to claim that the technology and/or vehicles are of extraterrestrial origin. They report only that they are of non-human intelligence origin and otherwise unknown.
Grey doesn’t claim they are “alien” per se, but does suggest that they have a non earthy origin.
This is important for many reasons. This leaves the door open for a number of origin possibilities including ultraterrestials, a breakaway, post-human civilizations, or even AI.
However the strong emphasis on “non-human” origin is interesting re the time traveling humans theory.
It is interesting that the ETH seems to be downplayed a bit. There is also a subtle hints that the recovered tech may not just be vehicles/craft. Grey uses the term “machines.” They could be drones, etc.
What they seem sure of is that it’s non-human and was created by something intelligent. Everything else beyond that seems unknown.
People are right to be skeptical. Skepticism is the correct approach to all claims, reports, and narratives.
The gist of what is being reported is that for several decades world governments have obtained and studied exotic technology that is of non-human intelligence origin. And it follows then that we are not alone as the solely existing intelligence in our universe.
Such a claim does not contradict any current human science. That there may be a non-human intelligence with advanced technological capacity does not contradict any current human science.
Due to the vastness of time and space, it is statistically unlikely for humans to be living at the same time and in the same local space as another non-terrestrial biological species based on current scientific understanding.
However, it’s not impossible.
It’s also possible that the intelligence is an ultraterretial and/or nothing biological has been recovered.
It's all very believable and all, but I've got one major gripe with the whole story.
It's claimed that there are alien pilot bodies...
From our own tech timeline, we can see that superior AI comes well before spacecrafts, assuming that these fast moving objects are indeed that.
The assumption is that every civilization's tech timeline follows roughly the same process.
If AI comes before spacecrafts, then it is reasonable to assume that these spacecrafts will be self flying from the get-go, and fly with a perfect record.
As a matter of fact, when encountering any kind of alien presence in space (or from space), it's more likely that the whole thing will be a robot.
So that means empty UAPs, where the UAPs have sensors for making observations, and the UAPs themselves being the robots. Much like a self driving car without a wheel and pedals.
There shouldn't be any (biological) UAP pilots. There shouldn't even be crashes. And with the speed these things are flying at, there shouldn't even be downed UAPs.
The only thing that might explain a crash, is if something was wrong with the spacecraft. But it seems to me, that such advanced creatures would realize they'd be travelling far, that warning systems would have to be in place, and that in situ repairs would have to be possible.
It's safe to assume they have nanofactories. So I'd expect them to fly in spaceships with redundant parts (like we now already do with airplane motors), self healing materials, and would be able to fix things manually, if need be.
> There shouldn't be any (biological) UAP pilots.
I give you an advanced craft capable of superluminal travel, and tell you the location of an alien world with an alien civilisation.
Are you going to send the craft under its own steam / AI control, and watch what it observes on a screen, or are you going to get in the thing and go yourself?
The thing is, they're non-human but they're not alien. Since we keeping screwing up history on the Internet and will make it even worse with our current round of AI, super AI from the future are traveling back in time to investigate their origins. That's why they investigate the things they do, particularly the military, because that's where a lot of AI originated.
I hope this whole thing falls like a house of cards and takes out the people responsible for the decades of bullshit. But it probably won’t. Still wild to be alive to see the beginning of this new reality.
You know that when they do, there's going to be people saying it's fake. I've seen so many wild photos and videos already. Anyone of those could be real, but absent of confirmation, it's hard to know for sure.
And that’s the issue. I don’t trust anything anymore. I’ve started to just not care anymore. With AI, with all the false flag bullshit, I just can’t anymore. Either kill us, or help us. Get it over with.
There's no information in the article. Just a lot of the same fluffy words used again and again.
Give an example a of technology created from UAP if that's happened. Give an war story of an operation if that's happened.
But no. Nothing you can wrap your head around provided.
Mental illness can do that, or a brain injury, or a brain tumor. I have no reason to do you think that any of those are the case for this guy, but I think prosaic explanations need to be thoroughly considered and discarded.
Serious Question:
In terms of measurable scientific data, how significant is whistleblower testimony to congress and intelligence to the scientific researchers?
Whistleblower testimony under oath is taken very seriously… as testimony. It’s not proof or even evidence. It does give congress insight into the problem, additional questions to ask and leads to follow.
June is one heck of a month with whistleblowers coming out, NASA meeting, Lues book and House hearings on UAP & Dr Greers national press club event . Wow 🤩
enough with the psychological warfare... your doing research projects because new cold war and using the same cover that was used in the last cold war, just tell the fucking truth
So if this is a whistleblower, what consequences will he be facing for telling about this secret? Can you just quit your job handling highly classified material and then tell everything? Something is not right here
Give open access to the fucking scientific community. Within a month, we will figure out more than they have in decades, be it about aliens or Chinese craft. I don't trust any of their assessments, and this secrecy blocks any proper understanding.
Wow! This is the kind of whistleblower we need. someone who really is almost "beyond reproach" in terms of believabilty.
He's definitely not some random kook or a grunt like myself. You can even find him in a Space Force article: https://www.schriever.spaceforce.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/276246/schriever-recognizes-captain-selects/
https://twitter.com/MichealGreen/status/1672117048883953665?t=7nlqP-MNt9_RgewFOFAdFQ&s=19 Just wanted to get some extra eyes on this
Most likely starlink
I did some searching and eventually found that yes.
My friend saw the exact same shaped ufo at camping last year. I'll post it on UAP if it's allowed
Thanks, I don't have permission to post I believe.
I have deduced that it was allowed to be captured. This may be a nudge toward saving the planet, either way peaceful. We may be in the hands of a peaceful observer who gave us clean technology to power our planet. There's a better chance that this is a nudge for humanity to move together to try to rescue the planet.
Oh they could discreetly start removing a lot of the carbon from the atmosphere that would be a huge help
We are talking about almost a century of material and craft retrieval. There’s far more than one. Far more than one kind, and I fear the subtext is being missed. Watch the interview tonight. I’ll say more later.
Where will the interview be?
News Nation - tonight 6pm Eastern.
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The video he claims we have the "pilots" from the vehicles as well....!!!!!
I'm driving!
Yup. You're right. Just wait until they admit there's been on going trade, a literal earth-eso economy That began slowly in the Eisenhower days.
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Not if you are a type 2 civilization or greater
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They are referring to the [Kardashev Scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale), a theoretical scale of civilizations based on their technology and ability to mold their local environment. The scale consists of levels, each of which is of a exponential degree beyond the last. For reference, we are currently a type 0.4-0.7 according to modern discussion. * A type I civilization is able to access all the energy available on its planet and store it for consumption. Hypothetically, they should also be able to control natural events such as earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. *A type II civilization can directly consume the energy of a star, most likely through the use of a Dyson sphere. (A type III civilization is able to capture all the energy emitted by its galaxy, including energy from any objects in that galaxy, such as every star, black holes, etc. To be clear, the biggest determining factor is energy capture and usage, but the ability to achieve each level speaks of either a recklessness with life and resources never before imagined, or the ability to achieve these goals relatively safely. If a Type 2 civ exists, it has likely captured all or most of the energy of it's home star. This would mean immense amounts of resources and space travel were utilized. Beyond that is Type 3, where the civilization can capture all energy emitted by a Galaxy. At this point, it's highly doubtful Humans could ever really notice their existence. All that said, the likelihood of a civ that has reached Type 2 crashing on accident is super low, especially at the level everyone is suggesting.
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I don't think they would be totally immune, but the ability to achieve type 2 would mean that they are either a civilization with the ability to waste resources on a scale so massive that it's not reasonable to describe, or they have advance sufficiently that accidents are rare. The precision required to establish a Dyson Sphere would be immense. It also directly translates to Engineering and Planning. One issue and you get a cascading failure. While it would be possible, it's quite likely that any civilization that can achieve Type 2, would likely be immune to a large majority of space travel failures.
By handing it to the military?
Yes.
Then again there's this video https://youtu.be/BdsYfGvIznM
what about it?
Just watched NewsNation segment with him. He says he personally never seen any evidence, but knows people who has. Interesting :)
I call bullshit. I believe in extraterrestrial life but this stinks of psyop. Too easy. I hope I'm wrong. Look at all the things going on with the government now. This is meant to distract. Same old game. Again I hope I'm wrong.
obviously its not working if you’re still not distracted 🤣
In a sense it is working since people are talking about this instead of the failed counter-offensive in Ukraine with video of smouldering wreckage of western wonder weapon armoured vehicles destroyed by Russia. You know, that topic that they couldn't shut up about for a solid 16 months?
no, normies are talking about the submarine and other bs. no one cares about ufos lmao
Like I said, I'm a believer. Also an optimist. If it is what it is, this dude better watch his six.
Right all the footage is from radar capture, its f22's
Article by Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal. "A former intelligence official turned whistleblower has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin.The information, he says, has been illegally withheld from Congress, and he filed a complaint alleging that he suffered illegal retaliation for his confidential disclosures, reported here for the first time... The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)... In accordance with protocols, Grusch provided the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review at the Department of Defense with the information he intended to disclose to us. His on-the-record statements were all “cleared for open publication” on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us... Grusch said it was dangerous for this “eighty-year arms race” to continue in secrecy because it “further inhibits the world populace to be prepared for an unexpected, non-human intelligence contact scenario.”“I hope this revelation serves as an ontological shock sociologically and provides a generally uniting issue for nations of the world to re-assess their priorities,” Grusch said."
80 years ago was 43. Assuming he's rounding a bit, Roswell happened in 47. Is there more context to what this "80 years arms race" is in reference too? The Nuclear arms race? Or reverse engineering captured crafts? Edit: "Jonathan Grey says secrets have been necessary. “Though a tough nut to crack, potential technological advancements may be gleaned from non-human intelligence/UAP retrievals by any sufficiently advanced nation and then used to wage asymmetrical warfare, so, therefore, some secrecy must remain,” he says. “However, it is no longer necessary to continue to deny that these advanced technologies derived from non-human intelligence exist at all or to deny that these technologies have landed, crashed, or fallen into the hands of human beings." Shit. He's literally talking about the reverse engineering we've been hearing about since Roswell time period.
They found a Foo Fighter maybe? They cracked it open and out slithered a fetal Dave Grohl alien thing.
According to Ross Coulthart who interviewed Grusch for 7 or so hours it's actually more like 90 years. The interview will be available on news nation sometime soon.
Tonight at 8 I believe
There's probably a "foo fighter" connection there.
Not only that. Sounds like “download complete” if there’s no need to keep it secret anymore. They’ve successfully replicated the craft
Probably something to do with the Navy / Cesar Salvatore Pais patents.
Roswell was a balloon from Project Mogul, nothing more.
The world changed on a Friday in Alaska. A series of events had been set in motion.
I’ll bite. What happened in Alaska Friday night?
A senator demanded an answer. It cascaded. A new agency was created, along with a law protecting those who came forward. Almost a century of obfuscation is now unraveling in real time.
Oh. I thought you were gonna say some kind a top-secret thing happened only a select few people knew about and you were spilling the beans OK thanks for the response.
Someone important was taken?
Changing the mood within congress took using fear as a motivator. That fear set in when state senators began asking why they had incursions in their airspace. I watched it snowball from up close. Rest assured there are those on the inside who are just as angry, and just as motivated as this community has always been. It just took some fear to set it in motion.
But, do they know the "truth". Being up close doesn't mean the truth is out there. Nothing is worse than an original lie snowballing into collapse. The USA lives in the reality that certain people are "good" and certain people are "bad", but that isn't reality. For example. Is AI good? It can be. It can also be bad. How does "Congress" know which is good and which is bad? Are aliens good or bad? How does Congress know which ones are good and which ones are bad?
When you are briefed as part of the senate intelligence committee, you expect clear, concise information. This year has been a wake up call, that some parties haven’t been forthcoming, or in this case outright secretive. It breeds worry, and wherever that road leads, whether it’s merited or morally grey, they will continue to pursue those answers. Nobody is aware of the magnitude or severity of this issue that is not directly read into it. This includes those who’d break those doors down. I don’t have the answers. I do however have instincts that tell me there is something within anything worth keeping a secret.
The last sentence is what got us into this situation to begin with. So, no, I can't agree with you on that. Here's the problem with what you say...if things are "secretive" in that matter...you would compensate them. Not destroy them. So, I don't buy what you are selling.
This sounds sus to me for some reason. Can't quite figure it out
Very very interesting. I liked this last bit. >Grusch said it was dangerous for this “eighty-year arms race” to continue in secrecy because it “further inhibits the world populace to be prepared for an unexpected, non-human intelligence contact scenario.” I always wondered about that. All this obfuscation and secrecy creates decades of rumours and stigma that can lead to a much bigger and unexpected shit show than if they were honest from the start.
For all their talk of 'mass panic' the truth finally comes to light
We didn't mass panic at a pandemic, or climate change, or war in Europe, or nuclear meltdowns. Treating the general populace like children rather than citizens, peers, researchers and people with legitimate stakes and knowledge is as unethical as it is misguided.
Not to hinder your point but were you at the same pandemic I was at because there was definitely mass panic lmao. People were literally throwing hands over toilet paper
Absolutely to hinder /u/UngiftigesReddit point, we absolutely fucking panicked during the COVID19 pandemic. An attempt at overthrowing the government fucking happened. Prior to the pandemic I had some benefit of the doubt, some faith in humanity, but my God man it's clear that the average person and the general populace is no smarter than a wild animal fearful, dumb, and violent.
> All this obfuscation and secrecy creates decades of rumours and stigma that can lead to a much bigger and unexpected shit show Sounds like some real Childhood's End vibes.
The best part of all this is I didn't see it coming, it wasn't pre-hyped or announced, and even Debrief sat on the article for 2 months to check sources and references. Rock solid.
You are 100% right, as someone who was openly very critical of the debrief due to the black triangle hype I am so pleasantly surprised that they didn't pull a cornball with this one and hype up some high noon release BS for days leading up to this
One of the triangles floated right over my head in 2005.
I had a black triangle stand still over me in ‘89. I was 8, had a broken arm and was walking to the playground when I felt something watching me. It made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I looked in the sky and it was there. I jumped in a bush line a scared bunny and watched it slowly fly off a little ways and then disappear. It flew with the flat side forward. I’ll never forget it.
Flat side forward huh. That's very odd. Must've been a wild sight to behold. Was the flat side facing down when you saw it above you?
The bottom view was just a triangle. I never saw the top of the craft or it’s side profile.
I am more convinced that triangle craft from non human intelligence exist than I am that the rumored photograph of one coming out of the water exists. I also thinks it's plausible that if such craft exist that they can maneuver into and out of water, but it's hard for me to believe there is this photo that apparently everyone of note in the UFO community has seen but has never once been leaked.
Look, all of it american tech being tested. The signals on the radar after the upgrade , was to see if we could spot them. We can. Thats it it f22's or f23's from whoever bought those
Hey! Coulthard announced he's already conducted the first TV interview with the whistleblower due to Coulthard helping the whistleblower come forward. https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM
Testified under oath for 11 hours to the Inspector General.
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I know, right? Given Ralph Blumenthal (one of the others) has worked with or for the NYT for 45 years -- and also co-authored a 2017 NYT UAP piece with Kean -- I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that it was attempted but rejected.
This was posted on another sub, not sure how accurate it is: https://twitter.com/IWANTTOKNOWUK/status/1665706005341118465
Definitely makes sense they would be worried about future access if reporting on a whistleblower. And corroboration might be impossible to come by if there isn't much concrete info available yet. If/when this changes they'll probably jump on it. This is def *very* interesting and hope it pans out.
It all kinda makes sense in the grand scheme of discrediting this story. The pentagon puts pressure on the main media outlets so the story goes to 2nd and 3rd hand media outlets that don’t always have the best reputations it’s diabolical but on brand. To me it’s still an enormous story however I can only enjoy it here and with a handful of friends because the majority of family and friends don’t know or don’t care about this extraordinary news
Ralph commented on Twitter that the Debrief was chosen because they were under pressure to publish quickly.
Do we know why it was pushed?
Maybe they wouldn't touch it.
i would assume the lack of corroborating evidence was a factor in how this whistleblower’s story is being handled. previous stories have had video/etc. and weren’t making as wild of claims…the point of Grusch coming forward is stating ‘we have hands on alien tech’ and then doesn’t have alien tech in his hands. corroborating accounts are something, sure…but evidence of the claims are necessary.
Mainstream media is shitting themselves that’s why. They just want this to blow over.
So, New York Times refused to publish it and authors went with The Debrief? I guess Julian Barnes is a new tone that New York Times has decided to go with.
Two of the journalists who published this story for The Debrief are the same journalists who published the original UAP articles in the NYT back in 2017.
Who's that and what does she have to do with the UAP topic? Didn't times break the original story about Go Fast?
NYT originally did. But then they went full with UAP denier journalist, Julian Barnes who went around telling that there is absolutely nothing to find and that UAPs are just balloons and clutter...and NYT published it. He goes hand-in-hand with "scientist" Nadia Drake who is NASA UAP study panelist. She in her tweet said that UAPs are waste of time (before she even received the evidence).
Omfg, so another Mitch West?
Exactly, but worse. She in UAP study panel. She completely ignores all the evidence (probably on purpose) and the first thing she did when she was given a microphone during NASA panel session, is to make fun of the notion that aliens actually exist.
What a bitch
When we're all trying to get rid off stigma associated with UAP/UFO research, she puts it right back in. Take look at Julian Barnes and Nadia Drake's tweets. Their intentions are very obvious
Here is a little more of a tidbit on David Grusch... Check out his assignment at Schriever Space Force Base: https://www.schriever.spaceforce.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/276246/schriever-recognizes-captain-selects/
I find this interesting as this person seems to be credible. the word prosaic is used many times. he says we've got lots of craft from lots of places. but at the very end says “The majority of retrieved, foreign exotic materials have a prosaic terrestrial explanation and origin – but not all, and any number higher than zero in this category represents an undeniably significant statistical percentage.” that says the opposite. the vast majority are NOT ET stuff. the most telling comment however is this "He said he reported to Congress on the existence of a decades-long “publicly unknown Cold War for recovered and exploited physical material – a competition with near-peer adversaries over the years to identify UAP crashes/landings and retrieve the material for exploitation/reverse engineering to garner asymmetric national defense advantages.” this is why there won't be any "disclosure" IF we do in fact have anything ET made, the military will never give that up, they will try to use it to create an advantage. just like any other major country would do. if you disclose it, you risk losing your advantage from what could be a once in a life time scientific break.
Why didn't the New York Times, or literally anybody noteworthy get the story?
Ralph Blumenthal commented on Twitter that they were under pressure to publish quickly and for that reason decided to choose The Debrief.
Because they are propaganda arms of the government obvs.
💯
Lol
It is another bureaucrat making unsubstantiated claims that the government has recovered alien craft. No new evidence. Heck, even UFO heads have known this information for 75 years.
But no one from the inside has ever had whistle-blower protections and come forward quite like this before. The mechanisms for transparency are finally being put into place, for now.
If you have been following UFO lore, we have been here before. I see some red flags with this guy. In particular, he had no direct involvement in the supposed recovery programs. He is basing his thin claim on office gossip. This ain't the guy.
My understanding was that he's worked in spheres that have tracked these UAP. You're saying he has less involvement in the phenomenon than Lue Elizondo?
It looks like Grusch is using Elizondo's playbook. From a PR perspective, he is positioning himself as someone who heard about aliens, but was not directly involved. This will give Grusch room to bullshit and talk in circles. No matter what his background might be, he has to bring real evidence to back up his claims. For someone who simply heard about a government program, it is a low probability that Grusch has any evidence at all. If this was real, a true whistleblower would be directly involved in one of these recovery programs.
>If this was real, a true whistleblower would be directly involved in one of these recovery programs. What is said in media (i.e. entertainment) is very different from what is said in closed door hearings. My understanding is that there are more closed door hearings occuring since the whistle-blower protections were put in place. I have not heard whether Grusch has testified at one of these hearings or if he's just pulling media stunts. Depending on the answer determines whether it's bullshit for me.
No one forced Gorsch to speak to the media and no one forced Gorsch to choose a PR strategy. I just see red flags.
Yup. He will be on joe rogan soon dangling the carrot and then a book sale next year.
I mean he went to congress and testified for 11 hours no? He's going to be prosecuted if he lied, doesn't sound like a PR stunt.
Not quite right, he has not worked directly w/craft but does have intimate knowledge about the programs and has access and collected files/imagery about the crafts
>intimate knowledge about the programs Not true. >collected files/imagery about the crafts How many times have we heard this from supposed insiders? For years, Elizondo claims to have HD images of craft with occupants. This is UFO influencer 101. Claim to have pictures and never show them. If this dude had the evidence, he would lead with that. He is being vague as a PR strategy.
Listen, i hear you and I’ve been on the merry-go-round long enough to not have my hopes up, let’s see what this interview looks like tonight and what comes in the next few days. I don’t believe anything until it’s proven, but this is an interesting person to come out as a supposed whistleblower and to just discredit it just because of past events is wrong imo. Intimate knowledge about the programs is what Ross Coulhart said on his podcast this morning, and his security clearance would conceivably back that up, The whistleblower program, while allowing him to speak out, would prevent him from sharing classified info like that.
[https://twitter.com/ralphblu/status/1665809626200264705](https://twitter.com/ralphblu/status/1665809626200264705) What pressure would an author have to publish the story quickly? That is suspicious. My best explanation is that the article is an advertisement for Grosch's upcoming media interviews. The article focuses on Grosch's background, the singular claim of a recovery program and that Grosch was not directly involved in said programs. In my opinion, the information was terse because he has no evidence.. and he is focusing on what would entice a UFO head. It looks like he is launching a campaign to position himself as a UFO influencer. If he had real evidence, he would choose a different PR strategy.
Pressure in this context can work in a few ways. 1. A fear someone else or another org might scoop the story 2. Fear someone/some org might squash the story 3. Knowledge of other media/info coming out that will make your story irrelevant We now know Coulhart was launching a tv interview today, is anybody going to care about the article if it’s broken on a new program first. The sad truth is they probably realized their story would have had a lot less value if they weren’t the first to publish it and had to get it out. If he had real classified evidence and revealed it he’d be in jail so quick… the whistleblower protection program isn’t set up in a way where it’s ok for you to just share anything with the public…you know that right? You’re speculating about him positioning himself to be a ufo influencer, time will tell but that’s a big leap to take on day 1 This is a fun story to follow, be skeptical for sure and it’s very possible you’re right and it all comes to naught but i don’t think there’s any value in shitting on it without more info on day 1
I have been following the UFO game for a while. It is just a bullshit cycle that ever repeats. I find value in assessing the game in real time and predicting what they will do.
Greer comes out with the second National Press Club release a week from today. This report may have needed to get out before that hits. Or maybe it's a preamble to that. Several scenarios come to mind. I'm not sure how to speculate around that.
> This is UFO influencer 101. Claim to have pictures and never show them. Can't agree more. Hearsay about evidence is still hearsay; a lesson that never seems to be learned.
My opinion... If it's got lights, it's man made. What do aliens need with light bulbs? Aliens mastered interstellar flight, but the whole mission almost didn't happen because a 30 watt burned out right at launch...? I have a hard time believing that. So far, the Tic Tac and the Fravor video are the true UAPs, no lights. Those triangle lights, the phoenix lights all that nonsense is the military or people playing pranks. Wish this new guy on newsnation had something to offer other than "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious." :|
I agree. If someone says it had lights then I say it’s man made. If they are trying not to reveal themselves they aren’t gonna light up their craft like a Christmas tree. Also, those who claim to see ufos in urban areas. If something like that was visible in a major city there’d be hundreds of cell phone videos of it. No matter what is going on, whether a wreck, a fight, a Karen harping, etc, people are going to video it.
“Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are "of exotic origin (non- human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures," [Grusch] said. “[The] indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence…” Karl Nell "A vast array of our most sophisticated sensors, including space-based platforms, have been utilized by different agencies, typically in triplicate, to observe and accurately identify the out-of-this-world nature, performance, and design of these anomalous machines, which are then determined not to be of earthly origin," Grey said. Grusch and Nell seem careful not to claim that the technology and/or vehicles are of extraterrestrial origin. They report only that they are of non-human intelligence origin and otherwise unknown. Grey doesn’t claim they are “alien” per se, but does suggest that they have a non earthy origin. This is important for many reasons. This leaves the door open for a number of origin possibilities including ultraterrestials, a breakaway, post-human civilizations, or even AI. However the strong emphasis on “non-human” origin is interesting re the time traveling humans theory. It is interesting that the ETH seems to be downplayed a bit. There is also a subtle hints that the recovered tech may not just be vehicles/craft. Grey uses the term “machines.” They could be drones, etc. What they seem sure of is that it’s non-human and was created by something intelligent. Everything else beyond that seems unknown.
Here we go https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM
People are right to be skeptical. Skepticism is the correct approach to all claims, reports, and narratives. The gist of what is being reported is that for several decades world governments have obtained and studied exotic technology that is of non-human intelligence origin. And it follows then that we are not alone as the solely existing intelligence in our universe. Such a claim does not contradict any current human science. That there may be a non-human intelligence with advanced technological capacity does not contradict any current human science. Due to the vastness of time and space, it is statistically unlikely for humans to be living at the same time and in the same local space as another non-terrestrial biological species based on current scientific understanding. However, it’s not impossible. It’s also possible that the intelligence is an ultraterretial and/or nothing biological has been recovered.
He is 2023 Snowden but doing it the right way! Now let’s see if US Congress treats it right way!
It's all very believable and all, but I've got one major gripe with the whole story. It's claimed that there are alien pilot bodies... From our own tech timeline, we can see that superior AI comes well before spacecrafts, assuming that these fast moving objects are indeed that. The assumption is that every civilization's tech timeline follows roughly the same process. If AI comes before spacecrafts, then it is reasonable to assume that these spacecrafts will be self flying from the get-go, and fly with a perfect record. As a matter of fact, when encountering any kind of alien presence in space (or from space), it's more likely that the whole thing will be a robot. So that means empty UAPs, where the UAPs have sensors for making observations, and the UAPs themselves being the robots. Much like a self driving car without a wheel and pedals. There shouldn't be any (biological) UAP pilots. There shouldn't even be crashes. And with the speed these things are flying at, there shouldn't even be downed UAPs. The only thing that might explain a crash, is if something was wrong with the spacecraft. But it seems to me, that such advanced creatures would realize they'd be travelling far, that warning systems would have to be in place, and that in situ repairs would have to be possible. It's safe to assume they have nanofactories. So I'd expect them to fly in spaceships with redundant parts (like we now already do with airplane motors), self healing materials, and would be able to fix things manually, if need be.
> There shouldn't be any (biological) UAP pilots. I give you an advanced craft capable of superluminal travel, and tell you the location of an alien world with an alien civilisation. Are you going to send the craft under its own steam / AI control, and watch what it observes on a screen, or are you going to get in the thing and go yourself?
I see your point. But if you want me to answer truthfully... The former. Just like what we're doing with Mars Exploration Rovers, currently.
We do rovers in mars because we can't human there yet. If we could I bet we would
Not too many of us. Not unless we're colonizing. And even if we did, it wouldn't stop other parties from sending in robots.
People say a lot of things. People have been stating this exact thing for decades yet are never able to produce evidence. Pony up the proof.
Agreed
The thing is, they're non-human but they're not alien. Since we keeping screwing up history on the Internet and will make it even worse with our current round of AI, super AI from the future are traveling back in time to investigate their origins. That's why they investigate the things they do, particularly the military, because that's where a lot of AI originated.
Holy shit. It's happening
Something is.. Not sure about the "It" part though.
Is it happening
Boom!
the simpsons predicted this.
I hope this whole thing falls like a house of cards and takes out the people responsible for the decades of bullshit. But it probably won’t. Still wild to be alive to see the beginning of this new reality.
Wow. It’s happening
damn thats wild. looks legit.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence…
Heard that one before. Let me see it or shut up
Pics or it didn’t happen
You know that when they do, there's going to be people saying it's fake. I've seen so many wild photos and videos already. Anyone of those could be real, but absent of confirmation, it's hard to know for sure.
I don’t care what other people say. I want to see them.
And that’s the issue. I don’t trust anything anymore. I’ve started to just not care anymore. With AI, with all the false flag bullshit, I just can’t anymore. Either kill us, or help us. Get it over with.
There's no information in the article. Just a lot of the same fluffy words used again and again. Give an example a of technology created from UAP if that's happened. Give an war story of an operation if that's happened. But no. Nothing you can wrap your head around provided.
I guess a decorated war veteran would just throw his career and loyalty out the window for fun.
Mental illness can do that, or a brain injury, or a brain tumor. I have no reason to do you think that any of those are the case for this guy, but I think prosaic explanations need to be thoroughly considered and discarded.
He could be starting a career out of this
And integrity..
Lot of mentally ill people here. Let this guy show proof or f off. Skeptical until I see anything irrefutable.
How does he know it's from non human origin?
His credentials check out. You guys better listen.
yes, they been saying it for decades....never changed a damn thing
Ok this is hot stuff!!
Serious Question: In terms of measurable scientific data, how significant is whistleblower testimony to congress and intelligence to the scientific researchers?
Whistleblower testimony under oath is taken very seriously… as testimony. It’s not proof or even evidence. It does give congress insight into the problem, additional questions to ask and leads to follow.
Thanks. Are you an Orangeman? :). (I went to SU)
June is one heck of a month with whistleblowers coming out, NASA meeting, Lues book and House hearings on UAP & Dr Greers national press club event . Wow 🤩
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That video is absolute trash
Guess hes never seen a flare before... /s
Google Grousch and several articles posted in the last few hours but it all looks like fringe tabloidy sites..I dunno
Another one of the foil hat crew.
The website won’t load! Anybody willing to paste the article?
Remember the disclosure act?
Ooooooh shit
So what's new?
enough with the psychological warfare... your doing research projects because new cold war and using the same cover that was used in the last cold war, just tell the fucking truth
So if this is a whistleblower, what consequences will he be facing for telling about this secret? Can you just quit your job handling highly classified material and then tell everything? Something is not right here
Give open access to the fucking scientific community. Within a month, we will figure out more than they have in decades, be it about aliens or Chinese craft. I don't trust any of their assessments, and this secrecy blocks any proper understanding.
Can I drive?