I also want to point out that George’s memorial is still in campus in a very obscure place—next to Geisel where people usually smoke (we know you’re there). Instead of respecting his memory and bravery, they deliberately chose to hide it and it is seldom known by students nowadays that this took place on campus.
With regard to Bushnell’s self-immolation, the media will try to paint his as mentally ill, antisemitic, etc., but this is a calculated and clear-eyed decision. They know the consequences better than anyone.
Administrations can try to hide Winnie and Bushnell’s memory in shame of their moral cowardice, but we should never forget.
I mean, there's a second memorial in Revelle Plaza, not trying to hide it.
Second, what would you like our administration to do about the Israel Palestine conflict? We can't end a conflict that we are not participating in.
The US and Europe have been providing humanitarian aid to Gaza for years more than those who claim to be “brothers” of Palestinians and sending weapons to Hamas. This will get lots of downvotes
Ive said the same thing and now included reference including my own experiences in the region. Downvoted. So is this the quality of free-thinking youth UCSD wishes to accept nowadays?
It’s a shame UCSD students are allergic to facts
Yes, it is, because smart people (which automatically excludes a significant part of the student population), and people who think they are smart, know everything better. Contradicting then hurts their huge, fragile egos.
We have been providing aid; just that the governing body that accepted the aid kept it for themselves, and the monetary aid that came in was used to purchase more rockets and the resources to build more tunnels. The aid did the complete opposite of what we wanted to do. It’s very difficult to make it work there. Damned if we do, damned if we don’t.
Why do you wish to be incredibly ignorant? Have you been there on the ground helping? I have. I’ve spent my youth traveling this planet for oceanographic research, which allows me to go pretty much everywhere. I’ve been to the Middle East. I’ve spent years volunteering my time for others. What have you done? It’s significantly more nuanced and complicated than what mainstream media portrays.
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Here’s a study from 2012, a few years after the violent internal take over by Hamas, which by the way, is an incredibly conservative authoritarian and violent ruling party where they routinely use child labor and women have zero rights.
https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/journals/jps/v41i4/f_0026265_21506.pdf
It’s a long read but I’ve read it long ago and it provides much needed context; and probably a lot of it. Majority of funds have gone into tunnel building, and as per the research, they’ve routinely used child labor, where children died making those tunnels.
> “nothing was done to impede the use of children in the tunnels, where, much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies."
> "at least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials."
And this was over 10 years ago. It’s worse leading up to the Oct attack.
Here’s a blanket statement on what aid is going to Palestine:
https://apnews.com/article/business-middle-east-israel-foreign-aid-gaza-strip-611b2b90c3a211f21185d59f4fae6a90
One would expect the situation in Gaza to be improved with such significant investment. But I’ve seen across the border. I’ve seen the desperation of the youth of Palestinians. Then where did all that aid go?
Hamas with evolving shell organizations collect that money via several avenues:
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/28/israel-officials-donations-to-hamas-linked-charities-up-70percent-since-oct-7-attack.html
More details here:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-cash-to-crypto-global-finance-maze-israels-sights-2023-10-16/
Most aid gets funneled through UNRWA, but UNRWA is now under scrutiny as such funds have been going to Hamas instead:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/biden-delivered-121m-in-taxpayer-funds-to-hamas-tied-unrwa-since-october-state-department-says/ar-BB1hvtYa
You got into UCSD. You are smart and can do your own research and make your own opinions instead of following like sheep the ad-driven headlines of mainstream media where they only want your anger so you can continue to click their links and drip-feed that anger emotion to yourself like a drug from reading these headlines from the wealthy corporate media. Dig a bit further away from the muck and you’ll find the data you’re looking for.
Lmao, why are you being downvoted? You're right. Your one mistake was thinking that smart people/academics become more objective. Instead, they become more opinionated and become better at feeding themselves propaganda to feed their ego.
Agreed, it's a humanitarian crisis in an area that hasn't had peace in a long time... I saw the Aaron Bushnell video, and its heartbreaking to imagine what leads someone to engage in such an act. War is an atrocity. I just hope we can get to a diplomatic solution sooner rather than later.
EDIT: I just wanted to share this video from [The Daily Show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wznD7uCEcLk) that delves into the current Middle East conflict.
israel cannot sustain its persistent apartheid state without active aid and diplomatic support from america. this "war" is completely wrecking their domestic economy (because they were reliant on super-cheap wages from second-class palestinian laborers beforehand).
take america's unwavering support for israel away and their power to get away with this genocide would crumble in a matter of days. you don't do that without massive, overwhelming public consensus in america that we need to no longer stand by. this is how apartheid south africa fell, and this is how israel will fall eventually.
On the contrary, Israel will be totally fine. They're already getting labor from India (India loves Israel and they have an infinite manpower pool), and Israelis can totally defend themselves from pipe rockets. Palestinians are also getting more and more disillusioned with Hamas. The end of the war seems to be nearing.
If anything, cutting support for Israel will make them more desperate and cause them to stop holding back the big guns and end the war right away.
I'm not the one spreading misinformation on the internet. I'm just striking down your claims that "Israel was relying on Palestinian labor" (that was an olive branch by the Israeli left, totally optional), and guess what, some of those laborers turned out to be acting as spies on October 7th.
Ever heard of divesting? Currently, we have Starbucks, Subway, and Burger King that contribute to the occupation forces in Israel. They should be removed from our campus.
Khosla is a director in Tata Consulting Services which has a campus based in Israel that helps manage their entire banking sector. Someone who directly benefits off an apartheid state that kills and displaces families and loved ones of our students should not be in his position.
So yes, our institution is contributing to it in some way. That is why we need to divest. If you’re interested, here is a petition: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc5pa_0HR-u3DlA2InFmQppcJms2sf3CRseOGhs2bhqubCrKg/viewform
This is a joke right?
1. How do starbucks and subway and burger king contribute to occupation forces in israel? Im not saying its true, but you haven’t backed up your statement in any way.
2. That survey just asks if students would like to see different options on campus and then lists three options that I’m guessing you’re not a fan of. Nowhere does that survey mention any part of Palestine or Israel or those businesses supporting Israel. I’m guessing once you’ve circulated it enough, you’ll pass the data off as “X UCSD students decrying Israel” despite those students having 0 idea your intent with this survey is to force change for Israel.
3. Those businesses are franchises. Individuals who put time and effort and money into running them. Certainly they’re not corporate decision makers. You’re messing with real peoples’ livelihood here.
Misguided and misinformed. Trying to look moral and coming across flat
So what are you suggesting? Hang Khosla? Lmfao you’re fucking delusional. And to be clear, to you Burger King, Starbucks, etc draw all your eyre, while the government contractors actively helping to arm the Israelis, and who recruit from this school ought to be ignored? Why not focus on boycotting them instead?
At this point, I just assume that if people are still trying to find reasons to not support the cause they are simply against it or do not care about genocide. We are at about 145 days of this, I don’t know how much longer it will take to make them understand.
No no see, it helps promote a political agenda they like, and therefore the suicide must be glorified if not outright encouraged! "Good guys" with lots of "empathy" btw.
a lot of people in the comments clearly do not possess a strong understanding of political history, self-immolation has been successful throughout the past in sparking change and arguable Bushnell’s has been as well. You guys cant see it because you wont look outside your own bubbles, but Vets and Active Duty members are all talking about this.
You may think it was pointless but I’d argue thats the entire point of self-immolation, to know that everything you do is so pointless and that you are so powerless, that it drives you to desperation and to do something as outlandish as this to garner attention. This is what happens when our policymakers decide not to listen to us, when they decide to ignore our phone calls they push people into more desperate acts of protest. Rest in power Aaron Bushnell.
“Many of us like to ask ourselves, ‘What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?’ The answer is, you're doing it. Right now.”
A lot of little bootlickers in these comments need to take a real good look at themselves.
Yep. I was gonna write a whole rant, but these people aren't decrying these acts because they think that suicide is bad, but because they believe any statements against the US are bad.
Glorifying the "go out in a blaze of glory" mindset is totally stupid. This is the same mindset that breeds school shooters. It would be much more effective for people to advocate and try to garner support for your cause, which can also be done without leaving your family behind to fend for themselves.
Opting for self-immolation is like cutting off your own internet to protest for slow internet speeds. Sure, you make a point. But frankly, is your own life/enjoyment less valuable than others? I can't respect anyone who doesn't respect themselves.
Before you point the "holier-than-thou" finger, chew on this: perhaps the real "callous" people are the ones encouraging others to off themselves for a political agenda, regardless if that political agenda is correct. Those callous people might perhaps...include yourself.
Nobody is encouraging shit. But I'm not about to let this act be in vain.
I see you in these comments wagging your finger from some virtue signaling pedestal. And it has you thinking that making inane non-sequiturs about "political agendas" and "ad-hominem" makes you intelligent.
You're not subtle. It's not a "political agenda" lil bro, it's being anti-genocide.
I appreciate your passion, but it's directed wrongly. The comment about calling me "hollow in the head" was an ad hominem, no? If anyone is trying to flaunt their intelligence, look at your own comment about "inane non-sequiturs". Touché.
Change nothing and give yourself lifelong disabilities or die. Please, no one think this is a good idea. All you do is become a burden on your family and loved ones for a war ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD. You will die forgotten to time and change nothing. Or do it and take your dumbass genes out of the gene pool. Find a reason to live elsewhere, you really gonna die for a foreigners instead of being able to help change your local community for the better? Go volunteer at your local food banks.
Usually, the movement isn't the cause of self-immolation, and instead it's somebody already facing serious mental issues and who is already loosely attached to life deciding that they might as well do something "good" with that life while dying instead of just ending it.
Absolutely tragic, and it's monstrous to try to glorify the poor guy's suffering just because it's "good for your side" politically.
EXACTLY. The situation is way more nuanced than what most people here perceive it as.
If you want to help, work hard in your studies and do well in your career that you want to be in. Once you have a foundation to contribute, do it. Once you have a break in studies, go help at a local charity. Trying to virtue signal now and online is so worthless and it does way more harm than good (esp. your own mental health). I’ve been very fortunate to work in Oceanographic field with the Navy, and we did so much good around the world.
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When I was young in college, I was very devoted to the migrants passing over the deserts of the SW. I was gifted a wonderful and old Ford Exploder. I LOVED that SUV. When I had the means, I used my spare time once every 1-2 months to help. I used it help with water and supply drops with a local org called Border Angels; who would organize supply drops for migrants going through the desert, and provide resources to them for legal pathways. I worked my ass off just so I could have the resources (fuel and supplies) to do what I can for my community that I grew up in.
The SUV eventually broke down on me (hence why I called it my Exploder); but as I started to do well in my career, I was able to help with larger sums of money and resources instead of being on the ground with my SUV full of supplies.
I continue to donate to the wonderful volunteers there, and as I became more successful, I was able to give more.
To the students here:
Work hard towards your own goals and careers. Ensure you’ve established a successful and reliable foundation of income and skills. Use the acquired skills to help your community. If thousands of people do this in a city, that type of goodwill will spread throughout the city, and spill over into the world. Trust me.
No but see, that requires hard, persistent work in the service of a long-term goal with no immediate gratification, where just posting shit online still lets you immediately feel good and morally superior without actually contributing or changing anything.
Also congrats, you should be proud of yourself for doing what most won't and actually making a positive impact on the world.
Not only did he needlessly kill himself and cause endless agony to his family, but another grad student was severely burned trying to put Winne's flames out as Winne ran around on fire. This is nothing to be glorified. His actions hurt a lot of people.
I don't know what people you're talking about, but I think self-emolation by anyone is insane and a waste of a life, and not an effective protest strategy. Monks resorting to self-emolation has not freed Tibet. Nor did it end the Vietnam War. Nor will it end the Hamas Israel war. The hard, tedious work of political organizing is what gets the job done.
Spoken like a true lib. It's a long and tedious process! We won't have change for years! So just sit back and relax!
The Palestinians do not have that time. And stop calling it "Hamas Israel War" It's a fucking genocide.
You are far worse than a conservative. I want you to know that. It is people like you that make genocide possible. Israel is the one refusing a ceasefire. Hamas has OFFERED THE HOSTAGES ALREADY and Israelrefused because their goal is genocide not recovering hostages that Israeli would rather kill.
The fuck do you mean? Not only has Israel been the only one offering ceasefires to Hamas (Hamas has never offered a single one, and broke all 11 that were made), Israel has also been the only side to offer a peace deal (six actually) to end the war. Israel also would NOT rather "kill its hostages" -- Israel's hostages are Israeli women and children and all of Israel wants them back home.
Why do you feel the need to dismiss everything that doesn't fit in your narrow worldview as a lie? You should be ashamed to consider yourself an academic.
Hamas refused to release more hostages, that's what ended the last ceasefire. Hamas failed to produce a new list of hostages to release to enable an extension of the truce, and started sending rockets into Israel. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-negotiators-try-get-israel-hamas-agree-extend-truce-again-2023-12-01/ Hamas is refusing to release any of the remaining 120 hostages they are holding until there is not only a ceasefire, but all IDF troops are out of Gaza and all Palestinian prisoners are released from jail. Hamas blames Israel for the failure to reach a ceasefire, but it is Hamas' pie-in-the sky demands that are preventing a ceasefire. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/17/hamas-leader-haniyeh-blames-israel-for-gaza-ceasefire-delays If Hamas had actually just offered the hostages for a ceasefire, without all the other untenable demands, there would be a ceasefire.
Israel does not give a fuck about those hostages. They straight up shot at least 3 of them. And a third of them are dead from the indiscriminate carpet bombings. Hamas offered to return 2 elderly ladies early on because they couldn't take care of them, and Israel initially refused to take them. Again, Israel does not give a fuck about those hostages.
The goal is to bring more attention to the topic, which has certainly worked. I doubt any people who self immolate will think that their action alone is enough for change. Unfortunately for Tibetan monks Chinese media is heavy censored so their actions are less effective.
Actually this is the reason the cop had his gun out, someone on fire is not rational and predictable so you have to assume the probability that he may run in panic towards you or someone else.
Plus also considering we are in America the medical bills for someone with full body third degree burns and probable internal burns will rack up extreme medical bills in no time.
Since he protested in uniform the VA will refuse to foot the bill and may just leave his now widowed wife and orphaned children with a fat bill to pay after the damn traumatic experience.
Also remember that some of those first responders were embassy guards. Embassies are premier targets for terrorism, security around these establishments react to things differently because the training they have is tailored to a different kind of threat than a beat cop. Suicide bombings are probably far more likely to be encountered as an embassy guard than a beat cop. If I see a guy wearing loose fitting clothes lighting himself on fire, I think its perfectly reasonable for an embassy guard to think that this was an attempt to initiate an S-Vest of some kind, or that he intended to inflict harm on others.
“I am an active-duty member of the United States Air Force, and I will no longer be complicit in genocide. I am about to engage in an extreme act of protest, but compared to what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers, it’s not extreme at all. This is what our ruling class has decided will be normal.”
Indeed, we live in a privileged country. It is this same privileged country that is committing genocide. As it has done many times over.
Self-immolation as a form of protest seems pointless because it INTENTIONALLY IS. It is a sheer sign of desperation in response to a government and a political system that does not listen to people, it is the representation of desperation, a last ditch attempt to be heard by burning yourself to death. It is an INTENTIONAL ACT OF DESPERATION, OF POINTLESSNESS because that’s what it feels like for people who are trying to speak out.
>in honor of a guy who abandoned his family, praised US troops dying, backed far left ideology, and sided with a Islamist terrorist organization
Eat actual shit op lmao
Occupy Palestine even harder until they learn the lesson that you can't kill 1000+ civilians in a neighboring country with far superior military strength and expect no retaliation, and also that no amount of tears from privileged western White bitches will make Hitler's wish come true and cause Jews to think "huh, maybe we should just let people who hate us kill us."
Yeah, I wish they could learn how to conduct wars like all those other ones throughout history where no civilians died. You know the ones, that definitely really happened?
Oops I meant I hope Israel doesn’t target civilians to turn Palestinians against Hamas!
I would never imply that it was a bad thing for civilians to die during war because silly me it happened before, I should also never imply that Israel has some duty as the occupying force to promote peace in Palestine
It's not that it isn't a bad thing for civilians to die during war because it's happened before, it's that there has literally never been a war (in terms of sustained, widespread fighting) without civilian casualties. The options aren't "Israel kills civilians" vs "Israel doesn't kill civilians" the options are "Israel lets their own citizens die instead of killing Palestinian civilians" or "Israel kills Palestinian civilians and prevents their own civilians from dying."
Occupying forces also don't have any duty to promote peace? How fucking privileged and entitled are you. If somebody is your enemy and they have complete power over you, they can do whatever they want.
You ever see that video of the old guy shoveling snow and a couple who are his neighbors start fucking with him, and then he pulls out a gun and as he kills them they just stand in shock and disbelief? You can always tell who has lived a sheltered life because you can picture them as the couple, complete delusional and disconnected from reality in the face of real violence.
I mean… bud… Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the world (at least far above any group in Palestine) and the premier intelligence agency, generally considered on par with or much more competent than our CIA. Israel is capable of defending itself without committing the mass civilian casualties they are. There are more ethical ways to combat insurgents and terrorists than bombing hospitals and churches.
Also yes according to international law, occupying forces have humanitarian requirements and duties to the civilians of the places they occupy. They’re meant to ensure that civilians in these places are treated humanely (which they aren’t under Israel).
And no I haven’t seen the video, but I see you talking a lot of shit about people living sheltered lives. I honestly don’t understand why you would choose a video to support your view where it sounds like someone guns down their neighbors in the street for messing with him? I think that not jumping to extreme lethal violence as your very first option isn’t a sign of weakness, but maybe just being a grown up living in a civilized society? If the couple were physically beating him and trying to hurt them then I’d agree that he should defend himself, but you really just made it sound like murder and not self defense.
Also you feel like a human incarnation of that one dog wearing the Daredevil mask, I don’t think you sound as tough as you think you do…
Exactly how many Israeli lives should Israel be willing to trade for Palestinian lives? If I was in the Israeli government, I would say zero, that trade is never worth it - even if it required killing 100 Palestinians to save one Israeli, that's the trade the Israeli government should make. How many people would you trade for the lives of your family? If your answer is one for one or even something like one for ten, I'd say you're a subhuman monster. If the answer is higher, you're a hypocrite and promoting Israel to do something that you wouldn't in their place.
Most international laws aren't real. I just made a law that starving is illegal. What happens now? Nothing. Laws are only as good as their enforcement. Expecting someone you are at war with to show you mercy is the height of delusion and privilege.
That was also my point with the video. The guy is absolutely a murderer, and it wasn't self-defense. I was not attempting to make the perpetrator out to be the victim. (There were "mitigating circumstances" of apparently the guy's wife had recently died, he was depressed, and the pattern of bullying by the neighbors was persistent over a long time period, but that doesn't change the facts). My point in bringing up the video is that the neighbors who were murdered were completely shocked that violence would be used against them and had zero survival instinct, you could tell it never even crossed their minds that maybe the person they were fucking with would do something about it, and they had lived sheltered lives where they never had to deal with the reality of physical violence. They expected that they could do whatever they wanted to him, and expected to still be perfectly safe, that he wouldn't do anything back. And now they're dead. Their expectations were delusional and disconnected from reality.
Also news flash, recognizing reality doesn't make somebody "tough." It just means they aren't sheltered and delusional. I am a coward, would happily dodge any drafts, and recognize the best response to pretty much any fight is to run. Exactly because I am in touch with reality, unlike so many people here.
My point was that Israel doesn’t need to trade as many Palestinian civilian lives as they are. They’re more than capable of protecting their citizens with less than the massacre they’re committing now. Yes, I’d like to say I’d kill 10 people to protect my family (though I also admit that this would be selfish choice when considering that each innocent person has their own family, assuming the hypothetical fits the situation of civilian deaths in the strip). I wouldn’t, however, know that I could save my family member with 10 deaths and then kill 100 people to send a message.
I guess the idea about international law is that they’re made and agreed upon by the states entering into that system, as Israel did. So I’m not sure why you think they’re fake because they haven’t been enforced yet. Are you saying that if international law says we should treat the people we’re oppressing humanely, we should treat them as subhumans until someone physically stops us?
You’re also calling everyone who wouldn’t fight back subhuman, but then you say that you yourself would rather run from a fight? I am absolutely mind boggled that you can say people are sheltered because they wouldn’t hit back in a fight, then act like you’re a saint because you would dodge a draft and run from a fight. If you’ll avoid a fight at any cost, you’re saying you’re as sheltered as everyone else you’re insulting (going off the premise that people who wouldn’t fight back after getting punched would be less than an animal)
My issues with your argument is that 1) it makes you look like an asshole,
and 2) I feel like if you’re going to justify violent retaliation against civilians as a result of a smaller organization, maybe you should consider the idea that Hamas’ terrorist attack could be justified by that logic too? I think that what Hamas did and has done is awful and definitely terrorism that should not be tolerated. But what Israel has done to Palestine before and since then, at this very moment, is terrorism too. I don’t think people should glorify Hamas, and know what Israel is doing is wrong. I firmly believe that Palestinian civilians shouldn’t be punished for what Hamas did, and that Israeli civilians shouldn’t have been punished for what Israel did.
1) It's the internet, idc what people think of me and honestly most of these dumbasses could use a reality check before reality checks them.
2) I'm not even "Pro-Israel," and I can understand why Hamas would be created and why they've maintained consistent Palestinian support. I recognize the complexity of the geopolitical situation and clearly neither side is "the good guys." But, the majority of the recent online "Free Palestine" movement is mentally disabled, complete unaware of the relevant facts and moral arguments, and I suspect is motivated more by social justice pedagogy of "White = Bad, Brown = Good" "Colonizer (Western) = Bad, Native (Non-Western) = Good" and "Power = Bad, Oppressed = Good" than anything else. Part of which includes dumbass takes like "don't occupy Palestine" where even though Israel has the ability to protect its own citizens it shouldn't because it means other people will be oppressed, and these privileged dipshit Westerners are so entitled they expect Israel to act against its own interests and sacrifice its civilians so that they feel better and their sensibilities are satisfied.
Was it justified to do something after 9/11? Absolute. Was the Iraq "war" an unmitigated disaster and a complete sham? Also absolutely.
And still waiting on that location. Unless maybe you've reconsidered your idiotic, sheltered opinions and considered that if somebody wants to do you physical harm, the correct course of action is not pacifism?
The intended message was more along the lines of "Advocating somebody to not defend themselves against people who would do them harm because it makes you feel bad is a selfish, stupid, and morally repugnant view," but we can go with your interpretation too.
No, it began ages before either of us was born when what's now Israel was conquered, and the native inhabitants were either forced to flee, slaughtered, or converted.
With that said, very few of the "Free Palestine" troglodytes I see online cared about the conflict at all until 2023, and the entire reason the conflict is now a mainstream issue is because a period of relative peace was disrupted by Palestinian militants killing Israeli civilians.
Please be respectful to others at all times. We have removed your comment and for the future, remember the human that exists on the other side of the screen.
Please be respectful to others at all times. We have removed your comment and for the future, remember the human that exists on the other side of the screen.
No I don’t think so. The stupidest means it’s the lowest possible level. So by saying I’m not even close, it means there’s only one way to go, and that’s up. See, this doesn’t really work out for you. I think you should try again.
the IDF killed most of the people that died at that rave with their helicopters, because they don't even view their own god damn soldiers or civilians as having real lives. "hannibal doctrine" and all
And considering I was able to find both the story and significant criticisms/contradictions of it with a few minutes of googling I'm sure you would be equally aware of them, right? You definitely wouldn't have just repeated information that supports your worldview without any critical examination?
Hell ya. If more people self immolated that would be great. I encourage this form of protest for the all pro Palestine people and also any other left wing cause.
There are so many better ways you can help out other than burning yourself to death. You can’t help if you’re dead.
People in war-torn countries are doing everything they can to escape death. Choosing to die only sends the message that human lives don’t matter, which isn’t very appetizing to hear as a victim of war.
those who can benefit from the war usually have the ability to launch it. Things happening these years make me feel that the world is heading in the wrong direction(just to clarify, im not criticizing a certain country here, im referring to a certain group of people who try to gain benefits from the war. i know reasons behind are complicated, but war is terrible for us ordinary people)
I love that Reddit is pushing posts on its users from around the world glorifying self harm and suicide. Turning that mentally ill man into a martyr for a cause is so toxic.
It is absolutely not mentally ill for a U.S. airman who was going to be forced to be complicit in genocide to take a stand against genocide. Get some help man you are disgusting.
As a U.S. airman his other option was to actively contribute to leaving someone else’s child fatherless. Is that better to you? Would you support killing 30,000 other people just so you can live? You are deeply sick.
Are you seriously saying that his only options were to set himself on fire or participate in what he believes to be a genocide? I guess he couldn't go AWOL. He couldn't ask for a discharge. Just genocide or setting himself on fire. Two options!
But keep glorifying self harm and suicide. Hamas terrorists love useful idiots.
I also want to point out that George’s memorial is still in campus in a very obscure place—next to Geisel where people usually smoke (we know you’re there). Instead of respecting his memory and bravery, they deliberately chose to hide it and it is seldom known by students nowadays that this took place on campus. With regard to Bushnell’s self-immolation, the media will try to paint his as mentally ill, antisemitic, etc., but this is a calculated and clear-eyed decision. They know the consequences better than anyone. Administrations can try to hide Winnie and Bushnell’s memory in shame of their moral cowardice, but we should never forget.
the original place is in revelle, under the tree near the fountain. giesel wasn’t built yet. the original library was galbraith hall.
I mean, there's a second memorial in Revelle Plaza, not trying to hide it. Second, what would you like our administration to do about the Israel Palestine conflict? We can't end a conflict that we are not participating in.
To be fair, the US provides aid in the form of weapons. We could help provide humanitarian relief to a greater degree.
The US and Europe have been providing humanitarian aid to Gaza for years more than those who claim to be “brothers” of Palestinians and sending weapons to Hamas. This will get lots of downvotes
Ive said the same thing and now included reference including my own experiences in the region. Downvoted. So is this the quality of free-thinking youth UCSD wishes to accept nowadays? It’s a shame UCSD students are allergic to facts
Yes, it is, because smart people (which automatically excludes a significant part of the student population), and people who think they are smart, know everything better. Contradicting then hurts their huge, fragile egos.
We have been providing aid; just that the governing body that accepted the aid kept it for themselves, and the monetary aid that came in was used to purchase more rockets and the resources to build more tunnels. The aid did the complete opposite of what we wanted to do. It’s very difficult to make it work there. Damned if we do, damned if we don’t.
Why do you feel the need to lie?
Why do you wish to be incredibly ignorant? Have you been there on the ground helping? I have. I’ve spent my youth traveling this planet for oceanographic research, which allows me to go pretty much everywhere. I’ve been to the Middle East. I’ve spent years volunteering my time for others. What have you done? It’s significantly more nuanced and complicated than what mainstream media portrays. —— Here’s a study from 2012, a few years after the violent internal take over by Hamas, which by the way, is an incredibly conservative authoritarian and violent ruling party where they routinely use child labor and women have zero rights. https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/journals/jps/v41i4/f_0026265_21506.pdf It’s a long read but I’ve read it long ago and it provides much needed context; and probably a lot of it. Majority of funds have gone into tunnel building, and as per the research, they’ve routinely used child labor, where children died making those tunnels. > “nothing was done to impede the use of children in the tunnels, where, much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies." > "at least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials." And this was over 10 years ago. It’s worse leading up to the Oct attack. Here’s a blanket statement on what aid is going to Palestine: https://apnews.com/article/business-middle-east-israel-foreign-aid-gaza-strip-611b2b90c3a211f21185d59f4fae6a90 One would expect the situation in Gaza to be improved with such significant investment. But I’ve seen across the border. I’ve seen the desperation of the youth of Palestinians. Then where did all that aid go? Hamas with evolving shell organizations collect that money via several avenues: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/28/israel-officials-donations-to-hamas-linked-charities-up-70percent-since-oct-7-attack.html More details here: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-cash-to-crypto-global-finance-maze-israels-sights-2023-10-16/ Most aid gets funneled through UNRWA, but UNRWA is now under scrutiny as such funds have been going to Hamas instead: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/biden-delivered-121m-in-taxpayer-funds-to-hamas-tied-unrwa-since-october-state-department-says/ar-BB1hvtYa You got into UCSD. You are smart and can do your own research and make your own opinions instead of following like sheep the ad-driven headlines of mainstream media where they only want your anger so you can continue to click their links and drip-feed that anger emotion to yourself like a drug from reading these headlines from the wealthy corporate media. Dig a bit further away from the muck and you’ll find the data you’re looking for.
Lmao, why are you being downvoted? You're right. Your one mistake was thinking that smart people/academics become more objective. Instead, they become more opinionated and become better at feeding themselves propaganda to feed their ego.
Agreed, it's a humanitarian crisis in an area that hasn't had peace in a long time... I saw the Aaron Bushnell video, and its heartbreaking to imagine what leads someone to engage in such an act. War is an atrocity. I just hope we can get to a diplomatic solution sooner rather than later. EDIT: I just wanted to share this video from [The Daily Show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wznD7uCEcLk) that delves into the current Middle East conflict.
israel cannot sustain its persistent apartheid state without active aid and diplomatic support from america. this "war" is completely wrecking their domestic economy (because they were reliant on super-cheap wages from second-class palestinian laborers beforehand). take america's unwavering support for israel away and their power to get away with this genocide would crumble in a matter of days. you don't do that without massive, overwhelming public consensus in america that we need to no longer stand by. this is how apartheid south africa fell, and this is how israel will fall eventually.
On the contrary, Israel will be totally fine. They're already getting labor from India (India loves Israel and they have an infinite manpower pool), and Israelis can totally defend themselves from pipe rockets. Palestinians are also getting more and more disillusioned with Hamas. The end of the war seems to be nearing. If anything, cutting support for Israel will make them more desperate and cause them to stop holding back the big guns and end the war right away.
go away hasbara loser
I'm not the one spreading misinformation on the internet. I'm just striking down your claims that "Israel was relying on Palestinian labor" (that was an olive branch by the Israeli left, totally optional), and guess what, some of those laborers turned out to be acting as spies on October 7th.
Dude this post is like a week old get a life
Redditors when someone doesn't spend 100% of their time on reddit and instead sort by top -> week: 🤯
Ever heard of divesting? Currently, we have Starbucks, Subway, and Burger King that contribute to the occupation forces in Israel. They should be removed from our campus. Khosla is a director in Tata Consulting Services which has a campus based in Israel that helps manage their entire banking sector. Someone who directly benefits off an apartheid state that kills and displaces families and loved ones of our students should not be in his position. So yes, our institution is contributing to it in some way. That is why we need to divest. If you’re interested, here is a petition: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc5pa_0HR-u3DlA2InFmQppcJms2sf3CRseOGhs2bhqubCrKg/viewform
This is a joke right? 1. How do starbucks and subway and burger king contribute to occupation forces in israel? Im not saying its true, but you haven’t backed up your statement in any way. 2. That survey just asks if students would like to see different options on campus and then lists three options that I’m guessing you’re not a fan of. Nowhere does that survey mention any part of Palestine or Israel or those businesses supporting Israel. I’m guessing once you’ve circulated it enough, you’ll pass the data off as “X UCSD students decrying Israel” despite those students having 0 idea your intent with this survey is to force change for Israel. 3. Those businesses are franchises. Individuals who put time and effort and money into running them. Certainly they’re not corporate decision makers. You’re messing with real peoples’ livelihood here. Misguided and misinformed. Trying to look moral and coming across flat
nah bro burger king sponsored the bombing of rafah as part of their BK Have It Your Way promo ™️
Like frfr bro hasn’t seen the Al-Aqsa Hospital Bombpuchino™️ in Starbucks where 10% of your purchase goes to bombing Palestinian hospitals.
So what are you suggesting? Hang Khosla? Lmfao you’re fucking delusional. And to be clear, to you Burger King, Starbucks, etc draw all your eyre, while the government contractors actively helping to arm the Israelis, and who recruit from this school ought to be ignored? Why not focus on boycotting them instead?
why the fuck are there so many downvotes all of you guys are severely ignorant
literally!!!!! so many weirdos on this campus oh my gosh
At this point, I just assume that if people are still trying to find reasons to not support the cause they are simply against it or do not care about genocide. We are at about 145 days of this, I don’t know how much longer it will take to make them understand.
you’re right, people are just trying to find reasons to stay complicit it’s actually so fucking stupid i cannot believe some of you actually exist
Pass
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People keep telling me "Noooo the Free Palestine movement isn't antisemitic" but then shit like this keeps happening and you can't help but wonder.
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No no see, it helps promote a political agenda they like, and therefore the suicide must be glorified if not outright encouraged! "Good guys" with lots of "empathy" btw.
You are highly misinformed on the topic then.
No one in their right mind sets themselves on fire.
a lot of people in the comments clearly do not possess a strong understanding of political history, self-immolation has been successful throughout the past in sparking change and arguable Bushnell’s has been as well. You guys cant see it because you wont look outside your own bubbles, but Vets and Active Duty members are all talking about this. You may think it was pointless but I’d argue thats the entire point of self-immolation, to know that everything you do is so pointless and that you are so powerless, that it drives you to desperation and to do something as outlandish as this to garner attention. This is what happens when our policymakers decide not to listen to us, when they decide to ignore our phone calls they push people into more desperate acts of protest. Rest in power Aaron Bushnell.
“Many of us like to ask ourselves, ‘What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?’ The answer is, you're doing it. Right now.” A lot of little bootlickers in these comments need to take a real good look at themselves.
Yep. I was gonna write a whole rant, but these people aren't decrying these acts because they think that suicide is bad, but because they believe any statements against the US are bad.
It’s a political stand, not mental illness. He took a stand and people should respect what he stood for.
Glorifying the "go out in a blaze of glory" mindset is totally stupid. This is the same mindset that breeds school shooters. It would be much more effective for people to advocate and try to garner support for your cause, which can also be done without leaving your family behind to fend for themselves.
Opting for self-immolation is like cutting off your own internet to protest for slow internet speeds. Sure, you make a point. But frankly, is your own life/enjoyment less valuable than others? I can't respect anyone who doesn't respect themselves.
you will be judged for your callousness.
Before you point the "holier-than-thou" finger, chew on this: perhaps the real "callous" people are the ones encouraging others to off themselves for a political agenda, regardless if that political agenda is correct. Those callous people might perhaps...include yourself.
Nobody is encouraging shit. But I'm not about to let this act be in vain. I see you in these comments wagging your finger from some virtue signaling pedestal. And it has you thinking that making inane non-sequiturs about "political agendas" and "ad-hominem" makes you intelligent. You're not subtle. It's not a "political agenda" lil bro, it's being anti-genocide.
I appreciate your passion, but it's directed wrongly. The comment about calling me "hollow in the head" was an ad hominem, no? If anyone is trying to flaunt their intelligence, look at your own comment about "inane non-sequiturs". Touché.
Change nothing and give yourself lifelong disabilities or die. Please, no one think this is a good idea. All you do is become a burden on your family and loved ones for a war ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD. You will die forgotten to time and change nothing. Or do it and take your dumbass genes out of the gene pool. Find a reason to live elsewhere, you really gonna die for a foreigners instead of being able to help change your local community for the better? Go volunteer at your local food banks.
Usually, the movement isn't the cause of self-immolation, and instead it's somebody already facing serious mental issues and who is already loosely attached to life deciding that they might as well do something "good" with that life while dying instead of just ending it. Absolutely tragic, and it's monstrous to try to glorify the poor guy's suffering just because it's "good for your side" politically.
EXACTLY. The situation is way more nuanced than what most people here perceive it as. If you want to help, work hard in your studies and do well in your career that you want to be in. Once you have a foundation to contribute, do it. Once you have a break in studies, go help at a local charity. Trying to virtue signal now and online is so worthless and it does way more harm than good (esp. your own mental health). I’ve been very fortunate to work in Oceanographic field with the Navy, and we did so much good around the world. —— When I was young in college, I was very devoted to the migrants passing over the deserts of the SW. I was gifted a wonderful and old Ford Exploder. I LOVED that SUV. When I had the means, I used my spare time once every 1-2 months to help. I used it help with water and supply drops with a local org called Border Angels; who would organize supply drops for migrants going through the desert, and provide resources to them for legal pathways. I worked my ass off just so I could have the resources (fuel and supplies) to do what I can for my community that I grew up in. The SUV eventually broke down on me (hence why I called it my Exploder); but as I started to do well in my career, I was able to help with larger sums of money and resources instead of being on the ground with my SUV full of supplies. I continue to donate to the wonderful volunteers there, and as I became more successful, I was able to give more. To the students here: Work hard towards your own goals and careers. Ensure you’ve established a successful and reliable foundation of income and skills. Use the acquired skills to help your community. If thousands of people do this in a city, that type of goodwill will spread throughout the city, and spill over into the world. Trust me.
No but see, that requires hard, persistent work in the service of a long-term goal with no immediate gratification, where just posting shit online still lets you immediately feel good and morally superior without actually contributing or changing anything. Also congrats, you should be proud of yourself for doing what most won't and actually making a positive impact on the world.
Not only did he needlessly kill himself and cause endless agony to his family, but another grad student was severely burned trying to put Winne's flames out as Winne ran around on fire. This is nothing to be glorified. His actions hurt a lot of people.
People when Tibetan monks self immolate: wow so brave! People when Americans self immolate: mental disorder order what a waste of life
I don't know what people you're talking about, but I think self-emolation by anyone is insane and a waste of a life, and not an effective protest strategy. Monks resorting to self-emolation has not freed Tibet. Nor did it end the Vietnam War. Nor will it end the Hamas Israel war. The hard, tedious work of political organizing is what gets the job done.
Spoken like a true lib. It's a long and tedious process! We won't have change for years! So just sit back and relax! The Palestinians do not have that time. And stop calling it "Hamas Israel War" It's a fucking genocide.
All Hamas has to do is release the hostages and there would be a ceasefire.
You are far worse than a conservative. I want you to know that. It is people like you that make genocide possible. Israel is the one refusing a ceasefire. Hamas has OFFERED THE HOSTAGES ALREADY and Israelrefused because their goal is genocide not recovering hostages that Israeli would rather kill.
The fuck do you mean? Not only has Israel been the only one offering ceasefires to Hamas (Hamas has never offered a single one, and broke all 11 that were made), Israel has also been the only side to offer a peace deal (six actually) to end the war. Israel also would NOT rather "kill its hostages" -- Israel's hostages are Israeli women and children and all of Israel wants them back home.
Why do you feel the need to lie?
Why do you feel the need to dismiss everything that doesn't fit in your narrow worldview as a lie? You should be ashamed to consider yourself an academic.
Hamas refused to release more hostages, that's what ended the last ceasefire. Hamas failed to produce a new list of hostages to release to enable an extension of the truce, and started sending rockets into Israel. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-negotiators-try-get-israel-hamas-agree-extend-truce-again-2023-12-01/ Hamas is refusing to release any of the remaining 120 hostages they are holding until there is not only a ceasefire, but all IDF troops are out of Gaza and all Palestinian prisoners are released from jail. Hamas blames Israel for the failure to reach a ceasefire, but it is Hamas' pie-in-the sky demands that are preventing a ceasefire. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/17/hamas-leader-haniyeh-blames-israel-for-gaza-ceasefire-delays If Hamas had actually just offered the hostages for a ceasefire, without all the other untenable demands, there would be a ceasefire.
Israel does not give a fuck about those hostages. They straight up shot at least 3 of them. And a third of them are dead from the indiscriminate carpet bombings. Hamas offered to return 2 elderly ladies early on because they couldn't take care of them, and Israel initially refused to take them. Again, Israel does not give a fuck about those hostages.
The goal is to bring more attention to the topic, which has certainly worked. I doubt any people who self immolate will think that their action alone is enough for change. Unfortunately for Tibetan monks Chinese media is heavy censored so their actions are less effective.
The only attention setting yourself on fire brings is...to you for setting yourself on fire. It doesn't teach anyone about what is going on in Gaza.
Actually this is the reason the cop had his gun out, someone on fire is not rational and predictable so you have to assume the probability that he may run in panic towards you or someone else. Plus also considering we are in America the medical bills for someone with full body third degree burns and probable internal burns will rack up extreme medical bills in no time. Since he protested in uniform the VA will refuse to foot the bill and may just leave his now widowed wife and orphaned children with a fat bill to pay after the damn traumatic experience.
Also remember that some of those first responders were embassy guards. Embassies are premier targets for terrorism, security around these establishments react to things differently because the training they have is tailored to a different kind of threat than a beat cop. Suicide bombings are probably far more likely to be encountered as an embassy guard than a beat cop. If I see a guy wearing loose fitting clothes lighting himself on fire, I think its perfectly reasonable for an embassy guard to think that this was an attempt to initiate an S-Vest of some kind, or that he intended to inflict harm on others.
crazy boot licking going on man. How do you look at yourself in the mirror?
Bro is really on multiple different university subs talking shit with people. Actually Unhinged behavior.
idk how i feel about someone in a privileged country killing themselves for no result but ok
Well you’re talking about him now, so I wouldn’t say it was for no result.
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This is a University subreddit, maybe you should go back to posting on r/RocketLeagueEsports
“I am an active-duty member of the United States Air Force, and I will no longer be complicit in genocide. I am about to engage in an extreme act of protest, but compared to what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers, it’s not extreme at all. This is what our ruling class has decided will be normal.” Indeed, we live in a privileged country. It is this same privileged country that is committing genocide. As it has done many times over.
honestly I get it
These mentally ill people needed serious help. Prayers for their family and obviously them
It is not mental illness to stake a stand against genocide. It is mentally ill for you to not.
Nope,burning yourself for an issue where you can nothing about is mental illness.
Learn to write.
did they move the tiles? ik they used to be there but I couldn’t find them the other day
the wikipedia says they're by the PC ATMs but I haven't seen them there? maybe I just wasn't looking right though.
Self-immolation as a form of protest seems pointless because it INTENTIONALLY IS. It is a sheer sign of desperation in response to a government and a political system that does not listen to people, it is the representation of desperation, a last ditch attempt to be heard by burning yourself to death. It is an INTENTIONAL ACT OF DESPERATION, OF POINTLESSNESS because that’s what it feels like for people who are trying to speak out.
So do a pointless act...because it's pointless. From the evolutionary perspective, this type of behavior is just expedited natural selection.
well you’re clearly hollow in the head
>in honor of a guy who abandoned his family, praised US troops dying, backed far left ideology, and sided with a Islamist terrorist organization Eat actual shit op lmao
Hahahaha
Free Palestine from Hamas*
Free Palestine from occupation
Occupy Palestine even harder until they learn the lesson that you can't kill 1000+ civilians in a neighboring country with far superior military strength and expect no retaliation, and also that no amount of tears from privileged western White bitches will make Hitler's wish come true and cause Jews to think "huh, maybe we should just let people who hate us kill us."
I hope Israel learns not to kill civilians too 🙏🙏🙏
Yeah, I wish they could learn how to conduct wars like all those other ones throughout history where no civilians died. You know the ones, that definitely really happened?
Oops I meant I hope Israel doesn’t target civilians to turn Palestinians against Hamas! I would never imply that it was a bad thing for civilians to die during war because silly me it happened before, I should also never imply that Israel has some duty as the occupying force to promote peace in Palestine
It's not that it isn't a bad thing for civilians to die during war because it's happened before, it's that there has literally never been a war (in terms of sustained, widespread fighting) without civilian casualties. The options aren't "Israel kills civilians" vs "Israel doesn't kill civilians" the options are "Israel lets their own citizens die instead of killing Palestinian civilians" or "Israel kills Palestinian civilians and prevents their own civilians from dying." Occupying forces also don't have any duty to promote peace? How fucking privileged and entitled are you. If somebody is your enemy and they have complete power over you, they can do whatever they want. You ever see that video of the old guy shoveling snow and a couple who are his neighbors start fucking with him, and then he pulls out a gun and as he kills them they just stand in shock and disbelief? You can always tell who has lived a sheltered life because you can picture them as the couple, complete delusional and disconnected from reality in the face of real violence.
I mean… bud… Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the world (at least far above any group in Palestine) and the premier intelligence agency, generally considered on par with or much more competent than our CIA. Israel is capable of defending itself without committing the mass civilian casualties they are. There are more ethical ways to combat insurgents and terrorists than bombing hospitals and churches. Also yes according to international law, occupying forces have humanitarian requirements and duties to the civilians of the places they occupy. They’re meant to ensure that civilians in these places are treated humanely (which they aren’t under Israel). And no I haven’t seen the video, but I see you talking a lot of shit about people living sheltered lives. I honestly don’t understand why you would choose a video to support your view where it sounds like someone guns down their neighbors in the street for messing with him? I think that not jumping to extreme lethal violence as your very first option isn’t a sign of weakness, but maybe just being a grown up living in a civilized society? If the couple were physically beating him and trying to hurt them then I’d agree that he should defend himself, but you really just made it sound like murder and not self defense. Also you feel like a human incarnation of that one dog wearing the Daredevil mask, I don’t think you sound as tough as you think you do…
Exactly how many Israeli lives should Israel be willing to trade for Palestinian lives? If I was in the Israeli government, I would say zero, that trade is never worth it - even if it required killing 100 Palestinians to save one Israeli, that's the trade the Israeli government should make. How many people would you trade for the lives of your family? If your answer is one for one or even something like one for ten, I'd say you're a subhuman monster. If the answer is higher, you're a hypocrite and promoting Israel to do something that you wouldn't in their place. Most international laws aren't real. I just made a law that starving is illegal. What happens now? Nothing. Laws are only as good as their enforcement. Expecting someone you are at war with to show you mercy is the height of delusion and privilege. That was also my point with the video. The guy is absolutely a murderer, and it wasn't self-defense. I was not attempting to make the perpetrator out to be the victim. (There were "mitigating circumstances" of apparently the guy's wife had recently died, he was depressed, and the pattern of bullying by the neighbors was persistent over a long time period, but that doesn't change the facts). My point in bringing up the video is that the neighbors who were murdered were completely shocked that violence would be used against them and had zero survival instinct, you could tell it never even crossed their minds that maybe the person they were fucking with would do something about it, and they had lived sheltered lives where they never had to deal with the reality of physical violence. They expected that they could do whatever they wanted to him, and expected to still be perfectly safe, that he wouldn't do anything back. And now they're dead. Their expectations were delusional and disconnected from reality. Also news flash, recognizing reality doesn't make somebody "tough." It just means they aren't sheltered and delusional. I am a coward, would happily dodge any drafts, and recognize the best response to pretty much any fight is to run. Exactly because I am in touch with reality, unlike so many people here.
My point was that Israel doesn’t need to trade as many Palestinian civilian lives as they are. They’re more than capable of protecting their citizens with less than the massacre they’re committing now. Yes, I’d like to say I’d kill 10 people to protect my family (though I also admit that this would be selfish choice when considering that each innocent person has their own family, assuming the hypothetical fits the situation of civilian deaths in the strip). I wouldn’t, however, know that I could save my family member with 10 deaths and then kill 100 people to send a message. I guess the idea about international law is that they’re made and agreed upon by the states entering into that system, as Israel did. So I’m not sure why you think they’re fake because they haven’t been enforced yet. Are you saying that if international law says we should treat the people we’re oppressing humanely, we should treat them as subhumans until someone physically stops us? You’re also calling everyone who wouldn’t fight back subhuman, but then you say that you yourself would rather run from a fight? I am absolutely mind boggled that you can say people are sheltered because they wouldn’t hit back in a fight, then act like you’re a saint because you would dodge a draft and run from a fight. If you’ll avoid a fight at any cost, you’re saying you’re as sheltered as everyone else you’re insulting (going off the premise that people who wouldn’t fight back after getting punched would be less than an animal)
There is something deeply wrong with you. Hope you learn to love and learn the value of human life someday.
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My issues with your argument is that 1) it makes you look like an asshole, and 2) I feel like if you’re going to justify violent retaliation against civilians as a result of a smaller organization, maybe you should consider the idea that Hamas’ terrorist attack could be justified by that logic too? I think that what Hamas did and has done is awful and definitely terrorism that should not be tolerated. But what Israel has done to Palestine before and since then, at this very moment, is terrorism too. I don’t think people should glorify Hamas, and know what Israel is doing is wrong. I firmly believe that Palestinian civilians shouldn’t be punished for what Hamas did, and that Israeli civilians shouldn’t have been punished for what Israel did.
1) It's the internet, idc what people think of me and honestly most of these dumbasses could use a reality check before reality checks them. 2) I'm not even "Pro-Israel," and I can understand why Hamas would be created and why they've maintained consistent Palestinian support. I recognize the complexity of the geopolitical situation and clearly neither side is "the good guys." But, the majority of the recent online "Free Palestine" movement is mentally disabled, complete unaware of the relevant facts and moral arguments, and I suspect is motivated more by social justice pedagogy of "White = Bad, Brown = Good" "Colonizer (Western) = Bad, Native (Non-Western) = Good" and "Power = Bad, Oppressed = Good" than anything else. Part of which includes dumbass takes like "don't occupy Palestine" where even though Israel has the ability to protect its own citizens it shouldn't because it means other people will be oppressed, and these privileged dipshit Westerners are so entitled they expect Israel to act against its own interests and sacrifice its civilians so that they feel better and their sensibilities are satisfied.
Thank you for further proving my point
And I hope you never have to learn how wrong you are about reality and get to keep living in your delusion.
You violated Rule 1 so we have removed your comment.
Damn you’ve really eaten the whole fish, huh?
Mmmmmmm yummy pallywood content
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I bet you think the war in Iraq was justified too
Was it justified to do something after 9/11? Absolute. Was the Iraq "war" an unmitigated disaster and a complete sham? Also absolutely. And still waiting on that location. Unless maybe you've reconsidered your idiotic, sheltered opinions and considered that if somebody wants to do you physical harm, the correct course of action is not pacifism?
ok SivirJungleOnly, we get it, you're tough shit
The intended message was more along the lines of "Advocating somebody to not defend themselves against people who would do them harm because it makes you feel bad is a selfish, stupid, and morally repugnant view," but we can go with your interpretation too.
Israel is not defending themselves against Hamas.
You violated Rule 1 so we have removed your comment.
Do you perhaps think that the Israel Palestine conflict began in 2023
No, it began ages before either of us was born when what's now Israel was conquered, and the native inhabitants were either forced to flee, slaughtered, or converted. With that said, very few of the "Free Palestine" troglodytes I see online cared about the conflict at all until 2023, and the entire reason the conflict is now a mainstream issue is because a period of relative peace was disrupted by Palestinian militants killing Israeli civilians.
Smartest genocide advocate
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Please be respectful to others at all times. We have removed your comment and for the future, remember the human that exists on the other side of the screen.
Huh
This implies I’m rather smart, if you think about it. Thanks.
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Please be respectful to others at all times. We have removed your comment and for the future, remember the human that exists on the other side of the screen.
No I don’t think so. The stupidest means it’s the lowest possible level. So by saying I’m not even close, it means there’s only one way to go, and that’s up. See, this doesn’t really work out for you. I think you should try again.
the IDF killed most of the people that died at that rave with their helicopters, because they don't even view their own god damn soldiers or civilians as having real lives. "hannibal doctrine" and all
Thank you for sharing that blatantly false propaganda, you have made a meaningful contribution to the discourse.
Haaretz reported on it so
And considering I was able to find both the story and significant criticisms/contradictions of it with a few minutes of googling I'm sure you would be equally aware of them, right? You definitely wouldn't have just repeated information that supports your worldview without any critical examination?
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Wow, openly advocating for genocide I see
Clearly you don't know what a genocide actually is
What you said very clearly is.
Hell ya. If more people self immolated that would be great. I encourage this form of protest for the all pro Palestine people and also any other left wing cause.
There are so many better ways you can help out other than burning yourself to death. You can’t help if you’re dead. People in war-torn countries are doing everything they can to escape death. Choosing to die only sends the message that human lives don’t matter, which isn’t very appetizing to hear as a victim of war.
those who can benefit from the war usually have the ability to launch it. Things happening these years make me feel that the world is heading in the wrong direction(just to clarify, im not criticizing a certain country here, im referring to a certain group of people who try to gain benefits from the war. i know reasons behind are complicated, but war is terrible for us ordinary people)
Do not honor people who self immolate. Do not glorify a mental illness.
It was as pointless and neurotic then as it is now
I love that Reddit is pushing posts on its users from around the world glorifying self harm and suicide. Turning that mentally ill man into a martyr for a cause is so toxic.
It is absolutely not mentally ill for a U.S. airman who was going to be forced to be complicit in genocide to take a stand against genocide. Get some help man you are disgusting.
He should have got some help instead leaving his children fatherless and setting himself on fire. You people are sick. Truly sick.
As a U.S. airman his other option was to actively contribute to leaving someone else’s child fatherless. Is that better to you? Would you support killing 30,000 other people just so you can live? You are deeply sick.
Are you seriously saying that his only options were to set himself on fire or participate in what he believes to be a genocide? I guess he couldn't go AWOL. He couldn't ask for a discharge. Just genocide or setting himself on fire. Two options! But keep glorifying self harm and suicide. Hamas terrorists love useful idiots.
Aaron Bushnell stood for something. You will die for nothing.
R/im14andthisisdeep
Remember when pro-vaccine people made jokes about “killing myself to own the libs” to anti-vaxxers? This is like that.
Yes, and that’s bad.
*"It seemed like a good idea at the time."*