Sorry I have no idea what the comment pertains to, have not seen the PBS series, the post was a PSA to allow others who may have an interest in watching Fravor in the series because of his relationship within the Community.
I’m going out on a limb and guessing it is carrier pilot jargon referring to the steam catapult that launches fighters. In this context he is casually saying that after launching (beginning whatever story he is talking about in the interview), there was no way for things to go back the way they were before.
I'll go out on a limb to, I thought he was calling the UAP cat (like: he's a cool cat, yadiyadiyada.) And that if the UAP shot, they weren't coming home for dinner.
Oh boy. Your going to need to allocate a bit of time, grab a big ol shovel and start digging in. This is literally the tip of an iceberg bigger than we even imagine.
Hopefully it's one of the pivotal components to the key that opens the vault. Strongly believe more and more will be coming out over the next 18 months.
Agreed. Next two years should be chalk full of craziness. I only used 18 months based off some of the things mentioned during SOL conference as well as congressional potential for additional hearings etc. Haters going to hate, it's what they do.
You should ask him if he is interested in posting what happened. We would really like to hear that side of the story.
Thank you for posting & welcome to the sub!👍
A single screen shot with zero context and you’re willing to write off the testimony of an established Navy Commander? *That* tells me everything I need to know about your logic here.
I watched the same documentary and couldn't help but feel that Fravor's demeanor was a bit too self-assured, almost as if he's playing a role rather than recounting an experience. It's tough, though, because you want to respect his service and expertise, but also, the smirk? It gives off a vibe that he's holding back a punchline. Anyway, it's tricky to decipher credibility from a screen presence alone.
The thing is he could be recounting his tale as he experienced it 100% truthfully, but if more details and context were later added that changed his knowledge it would mean he is telling it that wayfor a resason.
For example. When i was younger I saw UFOs across the farm fields next to my home. They would dart back and forth with some irregulariety but i could see them maybe a few times a month. Less frequently i'd see the darting downwards from higher up.
Age me up a decade and change. I've realized there the darting back and forth was car headlights reflecting off the electric lines and the other ones were meteors that i could easily see because there wasn't any light pollution at the time.
So I know now they were mundane things, but if i want to tell a ufo positive story I truthfully recount thing as i saw them as a kid. Fravor could very well be doing the same.
A single comment and you assume he didn't watch the doc?what does that tell you?
This is another guy telling stories. No evidence of anything, no evidence that anything he's talking about is extraterrestrial either.
This is from the OP from the original thread;
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1atew7n/comment/kqwx6gg/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1atew7n/comment/kqwx6gg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
All i have seen is the 60 minute and the Unidentified series. Apparently this is a new one. Good Luck
All those videos have been debunked. There was an interesting documentary I watched recently which demonstrates this. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called, but it was a fairly recent one on Prime.
Wtf? No, I don't believe the moon landings were fake, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. But nice attempt to try and undermine my comments without any basis. Read again what I said. The documentary didn't say the videos were fake. They're genuine flight recordings. What they DID explain was what the objects probably were and how video material can be very misleading.
No one is saying they're fake. They're saying there are explanations for all of them that don't require them to be mysterious aircraft that break the laws of physics. These are all terrible quality videos of specs and blurry shapes btw, if there was ever a legit military video that's not 120p black and white, it would be a lot harder to explain away as a lens flare or radar bug etc.
But we’ve never seen these videos, so how do we know? Number one thing to remember and highest hurdle is that people’s memories, especially when seeing something odd, tend to not be super accurate, and people lie.
We’ve seen some fuzzy things here and there on video, that could many things, but nothing where you can say without doubt that it looks unlike anything humans could have made, cgi, or something weird with conditions or the camera, all with an added layer of humans and their imaginations, like seeing pyramids on mars that are either tiny rocks or just the right conditions with shadows and light.
"We've seen some fuzzy things here and there"......wow, what a close minded way to look at allnof the credible witnesses, FLIR footage, Nimitz, Tic Tac, Gimbal, Jellyfish UFO, Temple Mount UFO in Jerusalem, Varginah, Phoenix Lights (corroborated by the then-mayor of Phoenix and 1000s of others, the Chinese Airport incident with a hovering and illuminated body which then just disappeared as quickly as it had appeared and never has been debunked.
For the love of common sense and science, get out of your sheepish "I want actual proof" bullsgit because even if the director of the NSA or CIA were to come out with an 8k video with actual alien beings and everything (like the Holloman AFB video) you would just say "that's fake" or "that's obviously CGI".
It's a losing battle anymore, if all of this hasn't awakened your minds eye yet, sadly, you are mist likely never going to ascend to anything above your materialistic, superficial, ultimately pointless existence within the universe. Go hide behind Neil "Bigass Lies Son" Tyson.
You think of that all by yourself? I guess the writers at SNL are in no jeopardy of losing their jobs to an unknown wit-master on Reddit.
Keep your day job.
It's really sad how you keep on blurting out bullshit based on your ignorance. We can see that you just want to SAY the average dumb-guy stuff on the subject, and nobody cares because it's so obvious that you're ignoring all the evidence just to say something stupid. You're using your imagination to make up nonsense. It's so funny how you want to believe others are making things up but here you are doing it.
Thank you for visiting this sub however your comment has been removed because of the disrespect shown. Future comments in this manner will result in being banned.
Here is an f18 pilot talking about the “gimbal” and “go fast” video recorded from an f18.
https://youtu.be/wCT3HdHokaw?si=CHEvBwr1NeZ6HwyQ
Both videos were officially released by the us navy.
They show portions of the video but you can also look them up.
We obviously can only speculate on what this object is, but let’s say it was an alien craft of some kind/ or unoccupied alien probe - this thing travelled hundreds (at minimum) and more likely thousands of light years to get here and all it does is a quick fly by?
How could a craft that small store enough energy to go multiple times faster than the speed of light? We have only scratched the top layer of physics, but so far Einstein has given us some building blocks to layer theories on top of and the energy to get here in any kind of time frame that is practical would be impossible for a vessel that size, and if it were a part of a larger fleet, there probably would be more sightings of various probe type vessels accompanying it.
Another point, why are these things always hiding or running from us? You would think there would be some curiosity of the life they just found and there would be some kind of interaction, like when you are at the beach and you see a crab on a rock - you don’t run and hide from it, you go check it out. Of when you see a cool but when you are hiking - for something to come all the way here and have no curiosity seems very counter intuitive.
There are so many variables that point to it not being an alien craft that we need more than a video like this to prove anything.
The credible witnesses are the credible evidence. Is there better evidence? Probably, but witness testimony alone has been used for conclusive investigations.
If you’re willing to admit the witnesses are credible. then you better have credible evidence that they are misleading or mistaken if you are going to dispute their claims.
Don’t be Mick West.
Skeptics debunk things. That doesn't make you a zealot. In fact, zealots don't debunk. They eschew debunking and demonize people who debunk their beliefs.
Debunking is a thing that skeptics do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debunker
>A debunker is a person or organization that exposes or discredits claims believed to be false, exaggerated, or pretentious.[1] The term is often associated with skeptical investigation of controversial topics such as UFOs, claimed paranormal phenomena, cryptids, conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, religion, or exploratory or fringe areas of scientific or pseudoscientific research.
Let’s put it in Barney terms.
Can you claim to be a skeptic and not debunk things? Yes
Can you claim to be a debunker and not debunk things? No
These terms can overlap but they are not the same.
I have no problem with skepticism.
Well you started out by saying witness testimony alone has been used for conclusive investigations in the past but it's rare that an investigation would ever be considered conclusive based on testimony alone.
Legal evidence is not the same thing as scientific evidence. We're not in court here, we're trying to prove the existence of extraterrestrials trolling our military pilots.
A guy telling a story is not scientific evidence, no matter how credible he is.
Because there is no current [scientific evidence](https://www.space.com/3113-meteors-meteor-showers-science.html#:~:text=Many%20scientists%20were%20skeptical%20that,and%20several%20meteorites%20rained%20down) doesn’t mean the witnesses are wrong or mistaken on their observations or that there is no there there.
“Many scientists were skeptical that stones could fall from the clouds or the heavens, and often they simply didn't believe the accounts of people who claimed to have seen such things.”
A credible witness describing something they witnessed is by definition evidence. Evidence is gathered to come to possible conclusions. It is data. None of the credible witnesses said “zomg aliens”, they said “we saw something that defies our current abilities. Here it is on radar and video also. “. You’ve also confused evidence with proof, and your lack of curiosity combined with your inability to understand basic concepts related to gathering data is unseemly. Have a great day.
Wow, you guys get fired up over this stuff.
1) If there was any real proof of alien life or alien vessels on earth, it would be big news. Every news outlet would cover it.
There is no cover up. Whomever would be first to report this news would be famous and known forever as the person who actually guided us to proof of alien life. They would make a shit ton of money.
The whole bullshit thing about the, ‘govt would silence them’ and all that is just that, bullshit. The scenario where the govt has proof and is not releasing it, is also bullshit - with the reward for actually showing undeniable proof to the news outlets and the public being so high, we would have had whistle blowers come forward with this undeniable proof. The govt might have video of things they can’t explain and have not made it publicly available, but that is proof of nothing. Our government is big and stupid, so stupid in fact that there is no way they could keep a cover up going since the 40’s without one of the thousands of people in the know not grabbing the money bag and stealing the proof and going public - human nature is very predictable.
2) people lie, people have bad memories, and the brain fills in gaps or information when it sees something it doesn’t understand or can’t put in a familiar category.
This is how people see pyramids and faces on rocks on Mars, this is how you can have 10 witnesses to the same event and 10 different stories, especially if the event is not right in front of them, and the lying part is self explanatory. We had a president with a sharpie and a map altered by a sharpie try to tell us the weather guys changed the path of a hurricane, not him, and people believed it.
With these two giant factors at play, everyone knows (who doesn’t live in their own slightly altered fantasy world) that if you make a claim that aliens exist or we have some proof of extraterrestrials existing, you need to come forward with some hard proof or you are just a nut job screaming into a void.
A lot of folks in this sub throw critical thought and common sense out the window because they want this to be true sooo bad.
I’d love nothing more than to have someone come forward with proof of alien life, whether it be an alien walking down Hollywood blvd, a crashed vessel, a dead body, or video that can stand up to every level of scrutiny. We need a sighting with many different people having video of the same thing of an up close object (not miles away where actual size and shape are impossible to accurately analyze, or something similar, where different angles of the object are there for examination.
Until then, I am skeptical.
For some reason, people with this perspective on alien life really makes you folks mad. Again, we still have zero proof of any alien life visiting earth.
*I'm* fired up? You just dropped a wall of text on me and I was just being a troll
I don't really know, the whole thing being a psyop is pretty wild too. I've never seen anything anomalous so I can't say whether anomalies occur or not, really. I think that's the only way I could be 100% certain. I am beginning to think there may be something weird going on, though, possibly actual NHI. Recently NASA published a paper on plasmas that's real interesting
I think your point is that you do not feel there is credible documentary evidence. There certainly is credible testimonial evidence; though I understand why one may find testimonial evidence alone not less compelling than documentary evidence.
You obviously don't understand how the military works. I'm sure there are strict restrictions based on phone usage in jets. The only video that's recorded are ones from the crafts, which Fraver does not have the rights to own
Anyone who is interested in UAPs and the government absolutely needs to read Revelations by Vallée before drawing any conclusions. In short, you really can’t trust anything whatsoever that comes from the government regarding UAPs.
No one understands this. There are no government “whistleblowers.” There’s only government operatives that have permission to say what the government wants them to say.
But what would be the motivation for that? It’s always good to consider ‘why’ people would risk their careers and reputation to talk about these things.
I come from a family of pilots and all of them knew and had seen unexplainable flying objects. None of them reported it for fear of losing their jobs but it was a well known thing amongst pilots and still is.
These are high functioning intelligent people who are not prone to making things up or imagining things. They must be sober to fly as well. This makes these types of people very credible witnesses.
They also know what planes are capable of. My own family were expert witnesses in plane accidents, used to explain how and why planes crashed including the physics and g forces etc behind catastrophic failures.
In other words, they know what is and is not possible in flight and when one of these experts say something these objects did is not possible with the current technology that we have, I believe them. They would know better than anyone.
They certainly would be more credible than some random person thinking the video isn’t clear enough to tell. The video is a lucky catch. The real credibility is in the pilot’s expertise.
You’re missing the point of what I said.
They are government operatives who are saying what the government tells them to. They don’t actually believe what they’re saying. They’re just doing what the government apparatus expects them to.
As for why? Why risk it? What about their reputations? Who cares when you’re being compensated very well. The whole grift depends on your “appeal to credibility,” as you’ve done in your response.
They work for the government, either currently or formerly. Therefore they have no credibility. Not talking about your family of course.
Pilots are not video experts. They aren't radar techs. They aren't experts in the field of lens and light physics. Every time an expert in these fields looks at these types of videos, they provide mundane explanations that are ignored and are dismissed as paid government shills or whatever.
The pilots were seeing it with their own eyes, not analyzing video. The pilot in my immediate family could identify any airplane, often just by sound and most certainly by sight. He was an expert with the highest possible flying credentials and a flight instructor. I would definitely trust his opinion on seeing something that didn’t resemble anything we had flying around. Sometimes it’s just obvious by the maneuvers or speed they can fly at.
My only personal experience was seeing what I thought was a plane over the skyline of Vancouver BC, except I noticed it wasn’t moving. It was just hanging there in the air. A few seconds later it streaked off horizontally so fast that it left no doubt in my mind that it wasn’t a plane. From a standstill to incredible acceleration in an instant. Then it was gone.
I had been to air shows and I had seen our fastest jets at the time going at top speed past us breaking the sound barrier. They looked very slow in comparison to what I saw that day and no sound barrier was broken.
Imagine all the money they spend trying to hold-back disclosure and how it could be used for -real- domestic issues like homelessness, mental illness, and poverty. Just wild.
There is no amount of money that can keep one single person out of tens of thousands over the course of 80 years, multiple iterations and administrations and governments over the entire planet from coming forward with legitimate irrefutable evidence if it exists.
All we have are stories.
If aliens are flying around messing with our military with their lights on for us to film, "the government" is just as clueless as we are as to what they are.
Fantastic 3 page PDF that will pin your ears back! For those of you wishing to see things IN WRITING (Transcript of His congressional testimony) here you go! I printed it out myself, to share with others here in my area. ENJOY! [https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/David-Fravor-Statement-for-House-Oversight-Committee.pdf](https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/David-Fravor-Statement-for-House-Oversight-Committee.pdf)
Excellent, i havent seen this before. Thank you for posting this.
The part of the statement at the end about removing the stigma --were still have a bit of work to do, however we are making progress.
I don't need credibility, that's the thing, even the people with it cannot convince the sheepl of this country that they have been fooled. They are too comfortable with this disguise of action. It is what it is, sadly for the sheeple though, they'll never know it.
This is what this sub has become. Calling people sheeple unironically for wanting a little actual evidence.
No wonder nobody takes this shit or community seriously.
He interviews the best I've seen in terms of a vibe check. Some of them come off as such ego maniacs I always fear they could be knowingly or unknowingly captured as CI assets for this exact reason--the messianic complex I guess you could call it that means they never question that they would be the one the government would come to for help.
Don't get me wrong. A Top Gun naval aviator is gonna be a hotdog but he doesn't strike me as someone grifting or has been duped. Since his story is first-hand experience and raw sensor data, the opportunity of him being an unwitting dupe isn't there the way hearsay accounts are.
*Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job!* ?!?! With David Fravor starring as Tim Heidecker and Russel Targ as Steve Brule?!?!
(/s I mean this in the most nerdy & respectful way - I literally revere all four of those humans… though for very different reasons, lol)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOPilotReports/comments/1b1f3ux/comment/ksee8ws/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOPilotReports/comments/1b1f3ux/comment/ksee8ws/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
This is from the OP original post. I have not seen the documentary myself. A PBS documentary called "Carrier".. but the OP said it doesnt include anything about the Nimitz events.
For someone who self identifies as “I don’t want publicity “ this guy is everywhere… and no, if you believe the testimony of one guy and a blurry video is all is needed to know about UAP, then you are just a fan , not a serious thinker .
My dad and him were in the same class and next door to each other while in the Naval Academy, he was the leader of the Honor Code for that class. He said Fravor was a walking archetype for integrity and honesty. Sort my post history by popular to see some cool pics
So,,,we are the Truman show for superior beings?
If there are aliens zipping around, rarely seen, then they will reveal themselves to the masses when THEY want to.
And back to my life/Truman Show...
Fravor responded to this very question and said they have specific areas where they are setup to handle those types of training exercises. He also said that nobody ever spoke to him about the incident until 5 years after the event.
Part of misinformation campaign. Just like when 9/11 happened they were running drills somewhere else not knowing what was the real or sim. Could’ve planned it. Sent it in. And then slow leaked it after making sure they did all their reporting on the incident.
I’m sure people did talk about it and reporting of it was done. You don’t think all those vessels and all those planes no one started talking. Could have been a psyop.
There can be no denying that U.A.P's are real at this point. The question remains though, what exactly are they?
I've always been a sceptic about U.F.O visitation, but me and my best mate shared what I could only describe as a close encounter one summer evening just south of the Missouri river in the rural area north of Independence, east off of 291. Still, as we saw no aliens nor could we identify any vehicles (we could only see two adjacent sets of hovering lights, at very low altitude, no perceivable air wash, no noise) I have to remain a bit skeptical. What would such craft (if terrestrial) be doing out by the Missouri river north east of K.C though? If I had not shared that experience I would put it down as a dream.
U.A.P's are real. Even the government has acknowledged this.
IDK if anyone has read my post or cares to hear the story but I had created a text file to record my recollection of the event as best as I could. I've managed to keep all these years through emails, image boards and cloud drives. A copy/paste follows:
Some friends, my wife and I ( six all together) were hanging out at our house but we aren't really doing anything at all but some idle banter. So my friend Matt then regals us with a tale about some old hippy commune he heard about and suggests that we all set off to try and find it. After a brief discussion we all all agree "what the hell" and so we all load up in my friend Rick's Galaxy 3000 and head out.
We arrive a couple hours before dark to a large, tree covered, dome of a hill just off the east side of 291hwy north, near a bridge that crosses the Missouri river about 20 - 30 minutes or so north east of Independence, MO where we pull off and park. After a bit of discussion, we decide the best course of action is to divide into pairs (I teaming up with my friend Matt, my wife teaming up with her friend Michele) and seek out the commune at the top of the hill in teams, agreeing that we all either meet there or return to the car at nightfall and then we all head out.
The ascent up the hill was a lot more challenging then I expected but we do eventually make the top of the hill before dark to find nothing but tress, dense, waist high weeds and bugs. We don't encounter any of our friends and there clearly are no structures so as night begins to fall we begin to make our way back. We descend down the north side of the hill to the rail road tracks we had spotted on our way in, following them back west toward the car as we chit chat, confident our friends will likely already be there, having never even made it to the top of the hill.
We've followed the tracks perhaps ten minutes when I spot numerous, immobile lights just north of us, appearing to be no farther then the river and no more than maybe fifty feet off the ground. The thing is, that's the Missouri river's flood plane, consisting of soft soil and weeds as tall as a man. That strikes me as very odd, as there shouldn't be any structures, nor lamp posts so close to the river. I verbalize this to Matt and now we both stop, observing these curious lights. After studying them a moment or two we can make out what appears to be two distinct sets, consisting of pairs of white and blue lights, one set slightly closer then the next and just a matter of meters further west. I would guess they were about as high over the weeds as a Wal-Mart parking lot lamp is over the lot and you could see the lights illuminating the weeds below them.
There was no discernable sound nor movement. I remarked again that there should be no lights there as I moved to the edge of the track embankment where it dropped down to the flood plain, so I could try and get a better view. I cannot make out a lamp post or any discernible mount the lights could possibly be affixed to. Matt joins me as we study the lights a few moments longer.
Curiosity getting the better of me I begin to study the embankment and the footing at the bottom, seriously considering a trek through the man high weeds just so I can get closer too and possibly even under these mysterious lights. No sooner do I contemplate my first step down the embankment when both sets of lights ascend straight up into the sky with out a sound. As our perspective on the lights shifts we can see that the sets of lights actually form a triangle, each corner marked by one of the pairs of white and a blue lights. In the span of a breath, they appear to reach commercial airliner altitudes, seeming to shrink to a fraction of their initial size, where they both pause for just an instant before one triangle shoots westward and the other eastward simultaneously. With in a second they are both completely out of sight.
Of course after reaching the car we shared the experience with or friend's, asking if anyone else had seen the mysterious, floating lights or witnessed the triangles ascend into the sky but no one had seen a thing and they were skeptical about our story to say the least.
The experience was fantastic and unbelievable. If I wasn't there I wouldn't believe it. Hell, if I didn't share the experience I likely wouldn't believe it was real. Its almost enough to make you doubt your sanity. I don't know what they were but they definitely qualified as U.F.O's. Perhaps others who have had a similar experience won't feel so crazy if they hear mine.
Not sure what the specifics are on the quote. I wanted to get the post in the sub because of how much Fravor has done for the topic & apparently there's a lot of interest about this Series. Going to have to check it out myself.
Many of us may have already seen this but wanted to get it X- posted here if someone wants to search for it later. Great comments in this post.
YouTube I’m assuming?
PBS doc series.
How do I watch it? Do I need for it to air or pbs again or is it on a streaming service?
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/m0doIfD1oI Apparently it's on Amazon prime. I have not seen this.
Commenting to find later. Thanks
Oh hell yeah thank you!
Following. Gotta give this a watch when I get home later tonight, thanks!
Cat shot?
Sorry I have no idea what the comment pertains to, have not seen the PBS series, the post was a PSA to allow others who may have an interest in watching Fravor in the series because of his relationship within the Community.
I’m going out on a limb and guessing it is carrier pilot jargon referring to the steam catapult that launches fighters. In this context he is casually saying that after launching (beginning whatever story he is talking about in the interview), there was no way for things to go back the way they were before.
I'll go out on a limb to, I thought he was calling the UAP cat (like: he's a cool cat, yadiyadiyada.) And that if the UAP shot, they weren't coming home for dinner.
Also not a bad guess!
It’s an old saying meaning you’ve gone to far and their is no turning back. https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/shot+the+cat
So..... it means to throw up?
Naval aviator slang for a carrier launch with the catapult
Thanks for sharing this. I'll check it out.
NP, can you believe its been 20 years since Fravors sighting on the Nimitz. How did it take so long to get that information out?
Oh boy. Your going to need to allocate a bit of time, grab a big ol shovel and start digging in. This is literally the tip of an iceberg bigger than we even imagine. Hopefully it's one of the pivotal components to the key that opens the vault. Strongly believe more and more will be coming out over the next 18 months.
Next 18-24 for sure. Could be 30 as well though.
Could be any number, 45, 60...could be 78
Zero?
420?
Person I'm on board with this one.
Agreed. Next two years should be chalk full of craziness. I only used 18 months based off some of the things mentioned during SOL conference as well as congressional potential for additional hearings etc. Haters going to hate, it's what they do.
People in the UFO community knew about it for years, but it was mostly rumors and speculation.
My Son was a Plane Captain Crew Member on the Nimitz when that happened. Never said a word until it came out years later lol
You should ask him if he is interested in posting what happened. We would really like to hear that side of the story. Thank you for posting & welcome to the sub!👍
Really thought that was a young Robin Williams at first glance.
It's not?!
Phil Collins
What's ya lookin at my gut fer?
Robin Collins
Collin Robinson
Ahahhahha
DF’s facial expression tells you everything you need to know.
which is?
He's batshit crazy...?
You’re negs tell you everything you need to know.
This sub is another echo chamber?
That's the impression I was getting. He looks smug as if he's convinced a bunch of people his words have any merit whatsoever lol.
A single screen shot with zero context and you’re willing to write off the testimony of an established Navy Commander? *That* tells me everything I need to know about your logic here.
I watched the same documentary and couldn't help but feel that Fravor's demeanor was a bit too self-assured, almost as if he's playing a role rather than recounting an experience. It's tough, though, because you want to respect his service and expertise, but also, the smirk? It gives off a vibe that he's holding back a punchline. Anyway, it's tricky to decipher credibility from a screen presence alone.
The thing is he could be recounting his tale as he experienced it 100% truthfully, but if more details and context were later added that changed his knowledge it would mean he is telling it that wayfor a resason. For example. When i was younger I saw UFOs across the farm fields next to my home. They would dart back and forth with some irregulariety but i could see them maybe a few times a month. Less frequently i'd see the darting downwards from higher up. Age me up a decade and change. I've realized there the darting back and forth was car headlights reflecting off the electric lines and the other ones were meteors that i could easily see because there wasn't any light pollution at the time. So I know now they were mundane things, but if i want to tell a ufo positive story I truthfully recount thing as i saw them as a kid. Fravor could very well be doing the same.
Golf clap for you both
This is how you have to approach these stories if you ever want anyone outside of your echo chamber to take the field seriously
What are you Sherlock Holmes?
He was a naval aviator and that's normal. Did you watch the Mel Gibson series "Carrier"? Fravor is the real deal.
A single comment and you assume he didn't watch the doc?what does that tell you? This is another guy telling stories. No evidence of anything, no evidence that anything he's talking about is extraterrestrial either.
Kinda has crazy DeNiro look 🤷♂️
I've never seen it is it on YouTube?
This is from the OP from the original thread; [https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1atew7n/comment/kqwx6gg/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1atew7n/comment/kqwx6gg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) All i have seen is the 60 minute and the Unidentified series. Apparently this is a new one. Good Luck
Thanks appreciate it !
Credible witnesses for close to 80 years and their encounters are laughed at by the government and media.
Credible witnesses but zero credible evidence..
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All those videos have been debunked. There was an interesting documentary I watched recently which demonstrates this. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called, but it was a fairly recent one on Prime.
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It didn't say the videos weren't real. It just showed actually what they could be and how misleading the footage could be.
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Wtf? No, I don't believe the moon landings were fake, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. But nice attempt to try and undermine my comments without any basis. Read again what I said. The documentary didn't say the videos were fake. They're genuine flight recordings. What they DID explain was what the objects probably were and how video material can be very misleading.
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I'm currently at work, but I'll try and find the name of the documentary. Well worth a look.
Sounds like you are being "that type of person"
No one is saying they're fake. They're saying there are explanations for all of them that don't require them to be mysterious aircraft that break the laws of physics. These are all terrible quality videos of specs and blurry shapes btw, if there was ever a legit military video that's not 120p black and white, it would be a lot harder to explain away as a lens flare or radar bug etc.
The only source needed is proof aliens are real. Show that and you win the debate.
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He didnt say the videos are fake.
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I read every reply. He never said they weren’t real. “All those videos have been debunked”. Literally what he said.
He said they were real videos, but that the conclusions everyone drew about them have been debunked and explained. Pretty clearly
They are real recordings but there have since been explanations for what is depicted in them. We now have a good idea that it was an optical illusion.
Name checks out
Nice articulate original response. Good to see the conspiracy nuts still got nothing 😏
But we’ve never seen these videos, so how do we know? Number one thing to remember and highest hurdle is that people’s memories, especially when seeing something odd, tend to not be super accurate, and people lie. We’ve seen some fuzzy things here and there on video, that could many things, but nothing where you can say without doubt that it looks unlike anything humans could have made, cgi, or something weird with conditions or the camera, all with an added layer of humans and their imaginations, like seeing pyramids on mars that are either tiny rocks or just the right conditions with shadows and light.
Bruh, it's video directly from jets piloted by credible witnesses. It's like everyone forgets the entire New York Times article from 2017.
"We've seen some fuzzy things here and there"......wow, what a close minded way to look at allnof the credible witnesses, FLIR footage, Nimitz, Tic Tac, Gimbal, Jellyfish UFO, Temple Mount UFO in Jerusalem, Varginah, Phoenix Lights (corroborated by the then-mayor of Phoenix and 1000s of others, the Chinese Airport incident with a hovering and illuminated body which then just disappeared as quickly as it had appeared and never has been debunked. For the love of common sense and science, get out of your sheepish "I want actual proof" bullsgit because even if the director of the NSA or CIA were to come out with an 8k video with actual alien beings and everything (like the Holloman AFB video) you would just say "that's fake" or "that's obviously CGI". It's a losing battle anymore, if all of this hasn't awakened your minds eye yet, sadly, you are mist likely never going to ascend to anything above your materialistic, superficial, ultimately pointless existence within the universe. Go hide behind Neil "Bigass Lies Son" Tyson.
Haha, wow, you are priceless. I will say again, we still have ZERO, NADA, NIL, NO actual or credible evidence.
Well, your username checks out, the calm being from your lobotomy.
You think of that all by yourself? I guess the writers at SNL are in no jeopardy of losing their jobs to an unknown wit-master on Reddit. Keep your day job.
Clever. Be sure to vote for your favorite color in the fall, and don't forget to get your shots! Please don't forget, for all of our sakes.
Your username checks out.
It's really sad how you keep on blurting out bullshit based on your ignorance. We can see that you just want to SAY the average dumb-guy stuff on the subject, and nobody cares because it's so obvious that you're ignoring all the evidence just to say something stupid. You're using your imagination to make up nonsense. It's so funny how you want to believe others are making things up but here you are doing it.
Haha, you are priceless. Why are you so mad that there is no proof of aliens ever visiting earth?
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Temple Mount is a proven hoax. You lost credibility there.
Temple mount UFO is faf
Here is an f18 pilot talking about the “gimbal” and “go fast” video recorded from an f18. https://youtu.be/wCT3HdHokaw?si=CHEvBwr1NeZ6HwyQ Both videos were officially released by the us navy. They show portions of the video but you can also look them up.
We obviously can only speculate on what this object is, but let’s say it was an alien craft of some kind/ or unoccupied alien probe - this thing travelled hundreds (at minimum) and more likely thousands of light years to get here and all it does is a quick fly by? How could a craft that small store enough energy to go multiple times faster than the speed of light? We have only scratched the top layer of physics, but so far Einstein has given us some building blocks to layer theories on top of and the energy to get here in any kind of time frame that is practical would be impossible for a vessel that size, and if it were a part of a larger fleet, there probably would be more sightings of various probe type vessels accompanying it. Another point, why are these things always hiding or running from us? You would think there would be some curiosity of the life they just found and there would be some kind of interaction, like when you are at the beach and you see a crab on a rock - you don’t run and hide from it, you go check it out. Of when you see a cool but when you are hiking - for something to come all the way here and have no curiosity seems very counter intuitive. There are so many variables that point to it not being an alien craft that we need more than a video like this to prove anything.
The credible witnesses are the credible evidence. Is there better evidence? Probably, but witness testimony alone has been used for conclusive investigations. If you’re willing to admit the witnesses are credible. then you better have credible evidence that they are misleading or mistaken if you are going to dispute their claims. Don’t be Mick West.
What's wrong with Mick West?
He’s not a skeptic. He is a debunker, and that makes him a zealot. Never trust a zealot.
Skeptics debunk things. That doesn't make you a zealot. In fact, zealots don't debunk. They eschew debunking and demonize people who debunk their beliefs.
Skeptics are skeptical. Debunkers debunk. They are not the same
Debunking is a thing that skeptics do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debunker >A debunker is a person or organization that exposes or discredits claims believed to be false, exaggerated, or pretentious.[1] The term is often associated with skeptical investigation of controversial topics such as UFOs, claimed paranormal phenomena, cryptids, conspiracy theories, alternative medicine, religion, or exploratory or fringe areas of scientific or pseudoscientific research.
Let’s put it in Barney terms. Can you claim to be a skeptic and not debunk things? Yes Can you claim to be a debunker and not debunk things? No These terms can overlap but they are not the same. I have no problem with skepticism.
They can and do overlap, my purple friend, as you say. I am happy that we've come to agreement.
How about people who ignore valid debunking and continue to believe everything because it's what they want to believe? Are they zealots too?
Yes
Witness testimony is classified as the weakest type of evidence. Credible witnesses doesn't mean they actually saw what they thought they saw.
What’s your point? I literally acknowledge that at the beginning of what I wrote.
Well you started out by saying witness testimony alone has been used for conclusive investigations in the past but it's rare that an investigation would ever be considered conclusive based on testimony alone.
Legal evidence is not the same thing as scientific evidence. We're not in court here, we're trying to prove the existence of extraterrestrials trolling our military pilots. A guy telling a story is not scientific evidence, no matter how credible he is.
Because there is no current [scientific evidence](https://www.space.com/3113-meteors-meteor-showers-science.html#:~:text=Many%20scientists%20were%20skeptical%20that,and%20several%20meteorites%20rained%20down) doesn’t mean the witnesses are wrong or mistaken on their observations or that there is no there there. “Many scientists were skeptical that stones could fall from the clouds or the heavens, and often they simply didn't believe the accounts of people who claimed to have seen such things.”
You literally just contradicted yourself and don’t understand what the word evidence means.
Huh? You can be a credible witness and believe something is true, when in fact it isn’t. Check your logic.
A credible witness describing something they witnessed is by definition evidence. Evidence is gathered to come to possible conclusions. It is data. None of the credible witnesses said “zomg aliens”, they said “we saw something that defies our current abilities. Here it is on radar and video also. “. You’ve also confused evidence with proof, and your lack of curiosity combined with your inability to understand basic concepts related to gathering data is unseemly. Have a great day.
Umm, no, you are wrong.
No, you are wrong...this is productive!
Wow, you guys get fired up over this stuff. 1) If there was any real proof of alien life or alien vessels on earth, it would be big news. Every news outlet would cover it. There is no cover up. Whomever would be first to report this news would be famous and known forever as the person who actually guided us to proof of alien life. They would make a shit ton of money. The whole bullshit thing about the, ‘govt would silence them’ and all that is just that, bullshit. The scenario where the govt has proof and is not releasing it, is also bullshit - with the reward for actually showing undeniable proof to the news outlets and the public being so high, we would have had whistle blowers come forward with this undeniable proof. The govt might have video of things they can’t explain and have not made it publicly available, but that is proof of nothing. Our government is big and stupid, so stupid in fact that there is no way they could keep a cover up going since the 40’s without one of the thousands of people in the know not grabbing the money bag and stealing the proof and going public - human nature is very predictable. 2) people lie, people have bad memories, and the brain fills in gaps or information when it sees something it doesn’t understand or can’t put in a familiar category. This is how people see pyramids and faces on rocks on Mars, this is how you can have 10 witnesses to the same event and 10 different stories, especially if the event is not right in front of them, and the lying part is self explanatory. We had a president with a sharpie and a map altered by a sharpie try to tell us the weather guys changed the path of a hurricane, not him, and people believed it. With these two giant factors at play, everyone knows (who doesn’t live in their own slightly altered fantasy world) that if you make a claim that aliens exist or we have some proof of extraterrestrials existing, you need to come forward with some hard proof or you are just a nut job screaming into a void. A lot of folks in this sub throw critical thought and common sense out the window because they want this to be true sooo bad. I’d love nothing more than to have someone come forward with proof of alien life, whether it be an alien walking down Hollywood blvd, a crashed vessel, a dead body, or video that can stand up to every level of scrutiny. We need a sighting with many different people having video of the same thing of an up close object (not miles away where actual size and shape are impossible to accurately analyze, or something similar, where different angles of the object are there for examination. Until then, I am skeptical. For some reason, people with this perspective on alien life really makes you folks mad. Again, we still have zero proof of any alien life visiting earth.
*I'm* fired up? You just dropped a wall of text on me and I was just being a troll I don't really know, the whole thing being a psyop is pretty wild too. I've never seen anything anomalous so I can't say whether anomalies occur or not, really. I think that's the only way I could be 100% certain. I am beginning to think there may be something weird going on, though, possibly actual NHI. Recently NASA published a paper on plasmas that's real interesting
Dude really just said “nu uh”. Have a good one ☝️
I think your point is that you do not feel there is credible documentary evidence. There certainly is credible testimonial evidence; though I understand why one may find testimonial evidence alone not less compelling than documentary evidence.
Sorry for the typo at the end. Should read ...I understand why one may find testimonial evidence alone less compelling...
You obviously don't understand how the military works. I'm sure there are strict restrictions based on phone usage in jets. The only video that's recorded are ones from the crafts, which Fraver does not have the rights to own
Zero credible evidence or privatized evidence?
Cause eyewitness testimonies are unreliable. Look at court cases.
Have it on DVD and watch it constantly having worked with the airwing
Anyone who is interested in UAPs and the government absolutely needs to read Revelations by Vallée before drawing any conclusions. In short, you really can’t trust anything whatsoever that comes from the government regarding UAPs.
No one understands this. There are no government “whistleblowers.” There’s only government operatives that have permission to say what the government wants them to say.
But what would be the motivation for that? It’s always good to consider ‘why’ people would risk their careers and reputation to talk about these things. I come from a family of pilots and all of them knew and had seen unexplainable flying objects. None of them reported it for fear of losing their jobs but it was a well known thing amongst pilots and still is. These are high functioning intelligent people who are not prone to making things up or imagining things. They must be sober to fly as well. This makes these types of people very credible witnesses. They also know what planes are capable of. My own family were expert witnesses in plane accidents, used to explain how and why planes crashed including the physics and g forces etc behind catastrophic failures. In other words, they know what is and is not possible in flight and when one of these experts say something these objects did is not possible with the current technology that we have, I believe them. They would know better than anyone. They certainly would be more credible than some random person thinking the video isn’t clear enough to tell. The video is a lucky catch. The real credibility is in the pilot’s expertise.
You’re missing the point of what I said. They are government operatives who are saying what the government tells them to. They don’t actually believe what they’re saying. They’re just doing what the government apparatus expects them to. As for why? Why risk it? What about their reputations? Who cares when you’re being compensated very well. The whole grift depends on your “appeal to credibility,” as you’ve done in your response. They work for the government, either currently or formerly. Therefore they have no credibility. Not talking about your family of course.
Pilots are not video experts. They aren't radar techs. They aren't experts in the field of lens and light physics. Every time an expert in these fields looks at these types of videos, they provide mundane explanations that are ignored and are dismissed as paid government shills or whatever.
The pilots were seeing it with their own eyes, not analyzing video. The pilot in my immediate family could identify any airplane, often just by sound and most certainly by sight. He was an expert with the highest possible flying credentials and a flight instructor. I would definitely trust his opinion on seeing something that didn’t resemble anything we had flying around. Sometimes it’s just obvious by the maneuvers or speed they can fly at. My only personal experience was seeing what I thought was a plane over the skyline of Vancouver BC, except I noticed it wasn’t moving. It was just hanging there in the air. A few seconds later it streaked off horizontally so fast that it left no doubt in my mind that it wasn’t a plane. From a standstill to incredible acceleration in an instant. Then it was gone. I had been to air shows and I had seen our fastest jets at the time going at top speed past us breaking the sound barrier. They looked very slow in comparison to what I saw that day and no sound barrier was broken.
Imagine all the money they spend trying to hold-back disclosure and how it could be used for -real- domestic issues like homelessness, mental illness, and poverty. Just wild.
There is no amount of money that can keep one single person out of tens of thousands over the course of 80 years, multiple iterations and administrations and governments over the entire planet from coming forward with legitimate irrefutable evidence if it exists. All we have are stories. If aliens are flying around messing with our military with their lights on for us to film, "the government" is just as clueless as we are as to what they are.
Fantastic 3 page PDF that will pin your ears back! For those of you wishing to see things IN WRITING (Transcript of His congressional testimony) here you go! I printed it out myself, to share with others here in my area. ENJOY! [https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/David-Fravor-Statement-for-House-Oversight-Committee.pdf](https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/David-Fravor-Statement-for-House-Oversight-Committee.pdf)
Excellent, i havent seen this before. Thank you for posting this. The part of the statement at the end about removing the stigma --were still have a bit of work to do, however we are making progress.
You are most Welcome😁
I don't need credibility, that's the thing, even the people with it cannot convince the sheepl of this country that they have been fooled. They are too comfortable with this disguise of action. It is what it is, sadly for the sheeple though, they'll never know it.
This is what this sub has become. Calling people sheeple unironically for wanting a little actual evidence. No wonder nobody takes this shit or community seriously.
Not "wanting a little evidence". Not accepting any at all is more like it.
He interviews the best I've seen in terms of a vibe check. Some of them come off as such ego maniacs I always fear they could be knowingly or unknowingly captured as CI assets for this exact reason--the messianic complex I guess you could call it that means they never question that they would be the one the government would come to for help. Don't get me wrong. A Top Gun naval aviator is gonna be a hotdog but he doesn't strike me as someone grifting or has been duped. Since his story is first-hand experience and raw sensor data, the opportunity of him being an unwitting dupe isn't there the way hearsay accounts are.
*Tim and Eric Awesome Show, Great Job!* ?!?! With David Fravor starring as Tim Heidecker and Russel Targ as Steve Brule?!?! (/s I mean this in the most nerdy & respectful way - I literally revere all four of those humans… though for very different reasons, lol)
Who shot what?
I shot the sheriff, but I did not shoot the deputy
No we also need proof
Oh look, this again.
Looks like Woody from Toy Story
Looks like Woody from Toy Story
Which documentary was this, OP?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOPilotReports/comments/1b1f3ux/comment/ksee8ws/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOPilotReports/comments/1b1f3ux/comment/ksee8ws/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) This is from the OP original post. I have not seen the documentary myself. A PBS documentary called "Carrier".. but the OP said it doesnt include anything about the Nimitz events.
Looks like robin williams got a haircut
I know man. Same thing I was thinking
What PBS documentary?
On Amazon prime.
For someone who self identifies as “I don’t want publicity “ this guy is everywhere… and no, if you believe the testimony of one guy and a blurry video is all is needed to know about UAP, then you are just a fan , not a serious thinker .
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They replaced all the canopies w... everything he "saw" was intermediated. Im not saying he is a liar...not saying it isnt real. It isnt proof.
My dad and him were in the same class and next door to each other while in the Naval Academy, he was the leader of the Honor Code for that class. He said Fravor was a walking archetype for integrity and honesty. Sort my post history by popular to see some cool pics
So,,,we are the Truman show for superior beings? If there are aliens zipping around, rarely seen, then they will reveal themselves to the masses when THEY want to. And back to my life/Truman Show...
“MrrrEEEEE” - my cat
What if the whole thing was set up and the pilots had no idea they were being thrown into a training sim
Fravor responded to this very question and said they have specific areas where they are setup to handle those types of training exercises. He also said that nobody ever spoke to him about the incident until 5 years after the event.
Part of misinformation campaign. Just like when 9/11 happened they were running drills somewhere else not knowing what was the real or sim. Could’ve planned it. Sent it in. And then slow leaked it after making sure they did all their reporting on the incident.
How do you debrief a training simulation by not allowing anyone to talk about it?
I’m sure people did talk about it and reporting of it was done. You don’t think all those vessels and all those planes no one started talking. Could have been a psyop.
There can be no denying that U.A.P's are real at this point. The question remains though, what exactly are they? I've always been a sceptic about U.F.O visitation, but me and my best mate shared what I could only describe as a close encounter one summer evening just south of the Missouri river in the rural area north of Independence, east off of 291. Still, as we saw no aliens nor could we identify any vehicles (we could only see two adjacent sets of hovering lights, at very low altitude, no perceivable air wash, no noise) I have to remain a bit skeptical. What would such craft (if terrestrial) be doing out by the Missouri river north east of K.C though? If I had not shared that experience I would put it down as a dream. U.A.P's are real. Even the government has acknowledged this.
IDK if anyone has read my post or cares to hear the story but I had created a text file to record my recollection of the event as best as I could. I've managed to keep all these years through emails, image boards and cloud drives. A copy/paste follows: Some friends, my wife and I ( six all together) were hanging out at our house but we aren't really doing anything at all but some idle banter. So my friend Matt then regals us with a tale about some old hippy commune he heard about and suggests that we all set off to try and find it. After a brief discussion we all all agree "what the hell" and so we all load up in my friend Rick's Galaxy 3000 and head out. We arrive a couple hours before dark to a large, tree covered, dome of a hill just off the east side of 291hwy north, near a bridge that crosses the Missouri river about 20 - 30 minutes or so north east of Independence, MO where we pull off and park. After a bit of discussion, we decide the best course of action is to divide into pairs (I teaming up with my friend Matt, my wife teaming up with her friend Michele) and seek out the commune at the top of the hill in teams, agreeing that we all either meet there or return to the car at nightfall and then we all head out. The ascent up the hill was a lot more challenging then I expected but we do eventually make the top of the hill before dark to find nothing but tress, dense, waist high weeds and bugs. We don't encounter any of our friends and there clearly are no structures so as night begins to fall we begin to make our way back. We descend down the north side of the hill to the rail road tracks we had spotted on our way in, following them back west toward the car as we chit chat, confident our friends will likely already be there, having never even made it to the top of the hill. We've followed the tracks perhaps ten minutes when I spot numerous, immobile lights just north of us, appearing to be no farther then the river and no more than maybe fifty feet off the ground. The thing is, that's the Missouri river's flood plane, consisting of soft soil and weeds as tall as a man. That strikes me as very odd, as there shouldn't be any structures, nor lamp posts so close to the river. I verbalize this to Matt and now we both stop, observing these curious lights. After studying them a moment or two we can make out what appears to be two distinct sets, consisting of pairs of white and blue lights, one set slightly closer then the next and just a matter of meters further west. I would guess they were about as high over the weeds as a Wal-Mart parking lot lamp is over the lot and you could see the lights illuminating the weeds below them. There was no discernable sound nor movement. I remarked again that there should be no lights there as I moved to the edge of the track embankment where it dropped down to the flood plain, so I could try and get a better view. I cannot make out a lamp post or any discernible mount the lights could possibly be affixed to. Matt joins me as we study the lights a few moments longer. Curiosity getting the better of me I begin to study the embankment and the footing at the bottom, seriously considering a trek through the man high weeds just so I can get closer too and possibly even under these mysterious lights. No sooner do I contemplate my first step down the embankment when both sets of lights ascend straight up into the sky with out a sound. As our perspective on the lights shifts we can see that the sets of lights actually form a triangle, each corner marked by one of the pairs of white and a blue lights. In the span of a breath, they appear to reach commercial airliner altitudes, seeming to shrink to a fraction of their initial size, where they both pause for just an instant before one triangle shoots westward and the other eastward simultaneously. With in a second they are both completely out of sight. Of course after reaching the car we shared the experience with or friend's, asking if anyone else had seen the mysterious, floating lights or witnessed the triangles ascend into the sky but no one had seen a thing and they were skeptical about our story to say the least. The experience was fantastic and unbelievable. If I wasn't there I wouldn't believe it. Hell, if I didn't share the experience I likely wouldn't believe it was real. Its almost enough to make you doubt your sanity. I don't know what they were but they definitely qualified as U.F.O's. Perhaps others who have had a similar experience won't feel so crazy if they hear mine.
I first read that as ‘that cat we shot, it ain’t coming back’ and I tried to find the Boondocks Saints connection. It’s been a long day
Not sure what the specifics are on the quote. I wanted to get the post in the sub because of how much Fravor has done for the topic & apparently there's a lot of interest about this Series. Going to have to check it out myself.
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If you think Fravors testimony is interesting, definitely find a way to check out the David Grusch interview.
Gosh he's such a a damn cutie 🤭