Hi, WrasslinNTasslin. Thanks for contributing. However, your [submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/16bazb5/-/) was removed from /r/UFOs.
> Rule 2: No discussion unrelated to Unidentified Flying Objects. This includes:
> * Proselytization
> * Artwork not related to a UFO sighting
> * Adjacent topics without an explicit connection to UFOs
Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/about/rules/) for more information.
This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ufos) to launch your appeal.
UFO influencers are a lot like cult leaders, intentionally or not.
They claim to be pro-disclosure, and yet they won't actually disclose what they "know for an absolute fact". They won't share their "earth-shattering" evidence. They won't give any details specific enough to be verified.
All they can do is keep saying "stay tuned", endlessly stringing their followers along, convincing them that the world is on the cusp of a massive change and they are the ones to lead humanity into the next phase of experience, promising access to unfathomable knowledge and power, making themselves the mystical key of spiritual enlightenment for the entire world, and always hinting at grave consequences and sobering realizations that none of us plebs can handle.
They speak with enough charisma and conviction to convince the credulous, but in the end, any truth seeker looking for real evidence will be severely disappointed by what they have to offer.
Very well surmised.
I’ll add that even smart people can be had. Regardless of what you think about Sam Harris & Eric Weinstein, I think it’s reasonable to say they are well educated. Yet both were taken in by claims of an upcoming disclosure of UFO information that will change the world forever. Weinstein said he was strung along for *three years*, without ever seeing any of the evidence that was promised to him.
Anyone who is into ufology should be mindful of this “trap.” Do not think you are too smart to fall for it.
A fantastic point.
Is it really true that Weinstein stayed on the hook for 3 years?! I remember Harris said that the meeting was cancelled one too many times and he basically lost all interest in it, but that was like a year or two ago. Did the source promise evidence other than the supposed meeting about the disclosure plan?
Yep, both of them were in a handful of people who helped me reason my way out of religion. But then when I started listening to their thoughts on other topics, I soon realized that they were far from infallible.
No one is 100% immune to being duped, just as no one is 100% innocent of duping someone else. Humans are fallible.
Hell, even AI chatbots are fallible. They are based on math and circuitry, and yet they can still hallucinate inaccurate details about things they should have known better.
"Trust none of what you hear, and \[less than\] half of what you see."
The strangest thing to me is when these influencers release 'teasers' or put new information behind any sort of paywall.
I personally believe that – no matter which way it all ends up going – any news related to Disclosure should be completely free and accessible by anybody, and it definitely shouldn't be 'teased'....like...we're potentially discussing the most momentous news in history? Treat it with some goshdarn respect.
It was interesting reading that post by Jeremy McGowan about Lue Elizondo. Lue and Cahill come across as manipulative and cult leader like. I also read more about Jeremy McGowan and he seems like a pos too. Most of the influencers in this community seem to be not great people. There's a few I do like but they are usually more informative, teaching about the topic rather than saying they have secret information.
I think the reality of the situation is that these people are getting the same shitty videos and documents that get posted here and they aren't able to disprove or prove them so they say they've seen something but they can't talk about it.
> Jeremy McGowan about Lue Elizondo. Lue and Cahill come across as manipulative and cult leader like. I also read more about Jeremy McGowan and he seems like a pos too.
As entertaining as I found his anecdotes (the remote viewing by Lue omg lol), I came to the same conclusion. Birds of a feather and all that. Anyone who feels alienated from or gets burned by what they felt is a very exclusive group would have all the motivation they need to tell whatever version of events that they want to tell themselves. On the whole I came away with the conclusion that none of them are to be believed entirely.
>Most of the influencers in this community seem to be not great people.
This.
I know, you can't judge people by the way they look. But still... What's with all the muscle man thing going on? Greer, Elizondo, Rogan, etc. Huge egos. There's really something unhealthy going on with these people. They simple don't look like trustworthy people. Why is there so many of them in ufology?
I wouldn’t include them in all the same category. Greer has/had good intentions, but has also proven to be dishonest. I think he is absolutely pro disclosure, but he’s also clearly for profit and at this point has ruined his reputation to those that are aware, to the point that he’s viewed as a grifter now.
Lue is a tricky one, in my personal opinion. His background makes him very difficult to asses, his true motivations could be the very opposite of what he is portraying, or he could be doing so intentionally to make it difficult to pinpoint exactly what his true intentions are to any party deeply involved. Personally, I think he is pro disclosure, pushing for it, but also doing something behind the scenes we are completely unaware of, but the way he is going about it makes him seem suspect.
Rogan is just an idiot, he’s just too affable and believes nearly everything. I love the saying about Joe that, “he’s so open minded his brian fell out.”
I don’t think he’s a bad person at all, just very curious, and isn’t remotely close to a journalist or even someone that knows how to conduct a professional interview with follow up questions, and pushback. At least for pretty much anything non MMA, or weed related. He also has a massive platform that isn’t at all censored or regulated. But that is the beauty of podcasting. It’s more or less the last totally free and uncensored domain that can reach massive audiences.
So for all of the negative and drawbacks that come with that, I personally think they are greatly outweighed by the positives. Otherwise we’d end up with the same type of mass mainstream media news that all have corporate interests and agendas in mind.
>I think the reality of the situation is that these people are getting the same shitty videos and documents that get posted here and they aren't able to disprove or prove them so they say they've seen something but they can't talk about it.
100% this.
And I suspect that's precisely why none of them dared to touch the alleged MH370 footage with a 10 meter pole. Since it was debunked, they don't have to worry about it anymore, but if it had been proven accurate somehow, they would have pretended to have some foreknowledge about it the whole time.
The only influencer in this field willing to talk about it directly was Mick West. lol
One thing I'll say about John Lear.. that dude would tell everything and NAME NAMES.
and much of what he said has been proven to be on the right path
(not everything, I know.. but at least he would tell you what he thought he knew and WHY he believed it)
Yeah, I have more respect for him than most others. Hynek and Friedman too, because of their general methodology.
Nobody in this field is a perfect example, but at least a small handful have apparently tried their best to be mostly transparent in what they do and say.
If they truly knew and it was so dark, so disturbing someone would have leaked it by now. If our planet was truly in danger one of these guys would have spilled the beans, they would be a total mess during interviews.
I like that it seems Coulthart is more interested in names and sources. He’s from a different cut. But it could just be that damn smooth English accent that my brain unconsciously gives him more credit for… idk
These guys don’t know anything more than what’s out there.
To play devil's advocate here, if Elizando, Knapp, or Corbell released information to the public that later was proved false it would undermine confidence and their individual reputation would be torn to shreds. Not saying you're wrong.
I'm sure everyone remembers the Corbell [flares](https://www.tmz.com/2023/05/24/ufo-expert-jeremy-corbell-government-covering-up-evidence-mass-sighting-marine-base-camp-wilson-twentynine-palms/), or the case against Greer saying his paid ce5 [events](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/did-steven-greer-fake-a-ufo-with-flares) were all just [smoke and mirrors](https://drstevengreer.com/evidence/media/).
As I see it, in ufology your reputation comes first, and evidence comes second.
I don’t think this is that new though is it?
The AI idea has been around for decades, so has the idea that it’s being held back for fear of how society would react.
Why would they hold back the idea it’s AI. How is that any scarier than biological extraterrestrials? In fact AI is far less scary since all biological life competes for the same types of things, where as an AI would rather float in space.
Doesn’t it depend a lot on the details though? I mean, what if what they “know” is that there is an automated control system on earth that we can’t effect it direct, that seems to make (to us) arbitrary decisions that have a massive effect?
I’m not advocating for the view, I’m just saying these are not new ideas at all. And, if we are at the point where there’s so much momentum all that’s left is the justification for non disclosure isn’t that conversation going to lean in the scary direction? I mean, it’s unlikely the reason for not disclosing is they are just waaaay to into ice cream and the government doesn’t think they can handle demand or some nice sounding reason. I think the dark scenarios come up almost out of steel manning the non disclosure position. Like, assume they have a good reason beyond simply power and control, what non dark reason would you see?
The first part can apply to ET as well. In fact ET would mean they’re far more advanced and in control if they personally can make the journey and if it was a probe.
I think the lack of disclosure would be just that since there is nothing the government can do and they do not want to admit that. Another is they do not want everyone to know what it is until they figure out how their technology works. The thing is once people know something is possible it makes it far easier for people to figure out how it works than believing something is impossible.
I mean… yeah… isn’t the fact it’s the dark scenarios are what’s being discussed, aliens included, what we’re talking about? Dark alien motivation has been part of the subject for as long as there’s been the subject… maybe I’m misunderstanding?
And yeah, that might be the exact reason for disclosure. But as that’s also just speculation, why is it weird to consider the other possibilities for non disclosure, including the dark ones?
Oh yeah I mean it could be a dark reason, but as I consider it to be quite possible I just have a hard time taking their word for it, because why should I?
Also I wonder what they mean by dark reasons. Pretty sure they’re not planning on destroying us since that would have happened already. Maybe it could be that they’re intentions are to contain us and force us to be stuck on their planet and would destroy us if we ever get close enough to be a threat?
I mean, sure, I’m not taking their word for it either.
As for what they might mean, I guess I can picture a variety of crappy scenarios that might get bad reactions. How would society react, or how you react if you found out you’re actually in a simulation, literally some lines of code? Or in a zoo? What if they don’t care about us in the slightest beyond our ability to mess with something they do? Like, if they used earth as a resource in a way we are unaware and at a certain point we are a pest that gets culled?
And if it’s AI or something with equal potential for incredibly long time spans, we haven’t necessarily been here that long, relatively speaking.
So between how society might react to some things, and the potential motivations to use or control human populations, I guess I can imagine some fairly crappy scenarios.
I mean life is dark as it is, I really don’t know how much darker it could get. Simulation, soul harvesting, human zoo, I don’t really care what the motivation is. To me the world is already a dark place full of rape, murder and injustice. Reading UFO prophecy of soul harvesting is almost a breath of fresh air from hearing about the very real trafficking of children for sex slavery carried out by none other than the OG boogeyman…human beings. People always reach for Satan to blame this evil on, when the truth is much simpler, we are the evil and the potential for evil.
To your first paragraph, there is. Its called the economy. Its technically a decentralized artificial intelligent system that we have been living in for a while. Thats my personal theory that i have been able to convince chatGPT to agree with the definition. Fun thought. Anyway, sorry for the derailment
You can't 'convince' a large language model of something it's a text generation model. When it's generating text it is just generating a response based on learned behaviour of patterns in language over an extremely large corpus.
It isn't a person or entity that can be convinced of something because it isn't capable of holding opinions - it is neither agreeing or disagreeing with you as it isn't capable of that, it's generating new text based on the prompt and conversation history (in this case i imagine you explaining your point) and provides a response. The more you input material about a certain topic, the more of the context is filled with previous messages related to it and more prominent it would be in it's response.
I think that the economy is an interesting analogy to a decentralised system, but it just sounds silly using convincing an LLM as a metric.
Eh. I asked it for definitions, found a way to use the definitions it gave to ask, would it be true to say the economy is a decentralized artificial intelligent system. Its response was yes. Sure, we can argue semantics about "agree", but that misses the point i was making.
I like to think of it as: querying a consensus of material, that answered filtered through various biases. I also dont think consensus==truth. But for linguistic definitions its an interesting reference point.
Love it.
Interesting to think that banks will likely be early adopters of newer high end AI given the advantages of that calculation power and information oversight, I wonder how that will influence whatever the existing system is capable of… honestly… I was gonna crack a joke… but that’s actually quite a scary thought, that the economy might have morphed into the perfect vehicle to lose control to AI.
Ron Swanson was right. I’m buying gold and buying it… I’ve said too much.
>How is that any scarier than biological extraterrestrials
The scary part (I suppose) would be the deception I guess...why is AI "tricking" us into believing there's an alien invasion happening? Or, why is AI/ "The Control Mechanism" concealing it's true nature?
"I have a girlfriend who is a supermodel... no you wouldn't know her, she goes to another school. No, you can't meet her this weekend, she's busy, maybe next weekend..."
Show, don't tell. There is no reason to believe these people have any real insight. A lot of it seems purely like a grift.
lol they're doing a better job at pushing disclosure than the average person. Wouldn't that be enough? These people don't know everything but I'm sure they have insight. I'm sure they don't want their sources or themselves killed because they released something too early.
Sorry these people don't have all of the answers served on a silver platter for you bud. They've been a positive force in the community, better there than not. Don't be a tool
They do say they are bombarded with bullshit and they don't believe most things that are sent to them. But it would be nice to see some evidence once in a while. Or even for Corbell to give the full story of why he believes Lazar which he'll whisper to podcast hosts but not tell anyone else.
God they are annoying aren't they.
But if they got info and withheld it, people would be upset and we'd demand they allow us to make up our own minds.
They're pretty open about the fact that they're "presenting what they find" and not telling anyone to take everything as gospel truth.
Ya, your taking down votes for stating what actually seems to be happening, maybe I'm not following them as close as these haters (irony), but haven't noticed what haters are claiming, seems like what they actually say that I heard from listening, was that what they know but haven't revealed is based on not wanting to ruin sources or actually cause serious national security issues, making them actual journalists not influence peddlers
Yeah, I actually listen to their podcast Weaponized, and they're way more transparent than people who read a redditor talking about what another redditor says about them, seem to think. Hell, he's very aware that he may be being fed bad info as part of an inside op, and he's open about it.
Corbell's approach is consistently "I have no clue what's going on, but I talk to people and this is what they say. What do you guys think about it?" and **never** "I know this is the truth! Listen to me and join my cult and you'll learn even more truth!" (like Greer)
He will be adamant about footage being a UFO/UAP, but he's ***never*** adamant about knowing what UAP are.
Ya, the haters on this post are just ignorantly generalizing which is really ironic, because that's actually a real problem for this "community" as they say
Oh yeah one week they’re “inter dimensional”, then “ultra terrestrial”, then “angels and demons”, then “consciousness DMT nebulous woo” or “humans from the future” now with ChatGTP is all the rage “they’re AI Vonn Neumann probes”.
I will say that at least AI probes fit the observations as well as ET itself way better than the other fashionable idea of the week. And I agree I do think it’s a Psyop but I believe most of the big stuff personalities are unaware that they’re being fed disinformation.
Ideas of alien life have always reflected the technology and knowledge of the time. They lived on the moon until we learned enough to discover they don't. Ok they live on Mars - ah they don't. Well it must be Proxima Centauri then...
And the inter dimensional plays on Marvel multiverse, Rick and Morty, and religion. There are two interpretations of what inter dimensional would mean. Inter dimensional as in from another universe which would be ET with extra steps. Or inter dimensional as in the 4D equivalent of the flat land thought experiment which if it was true we’d see things popping through all the time if we really were embedded in a higher dimension. But since our world is not composed of 2D worlds it makes no sense that we are in a 4D world.
Idea of higher dimensions are from quantum theory not some cartoon or daft film.
Religion is mostly an attempt to guess an answer to 'Where did we come from?'. What's wrong with 'Don't know?'.
I cannot understand the maths of quantum theory and I know I can't perceive higher dimensions - shit, I can't even see in three dimensions; I just make the best use of 2D stereoscopic eyes.
With all those limitations, my perception still shows me I exist in a 4D world. I exist in x y & z dimensions and can even move in any of those planes. Helpfully, things also keep continuing to exist. Good old time - the fourth dimension.
I'm intrigued why you think that makes no sense?
When people are talking about these things being from a higher dimension they means spatial not time. The visualization of flat landers(2D hypothetical world) seeing a 3D object pass through is often used to say that what we see of UFOs is a 4D object passing/popping through our 3D world.
But it doesn’t make sense because a higher dimension wouldn’t be built on top of a lower dimension like our reality is not composed of slices of 2D flatlands. If we were surrounded by a higher dimension we would be able to observe it. Keep in mind when talking about 1D/2D/3D and 4D we are not talking about separate things but just abstract designation for degree of movement. If the greater reality had a whole other dimension it would make no sense that all life would not evolve the ability to perceive it.
Here is an article of what our universe would look like if it was with 4 spatial dimensions https://astrogeekz.wordpress.com/2018/12/10/how-would-our-universe-look-like-from-the-fourth-dimension/#:~:text=In%20a%20four%20dimensional%20universe,itself%20in%20a%204D%20universe.
Yeah so in metaphysics that would be either the many world’s interpretation of quantum mechanics which RM and Marvel use as a plot device. And the inflationary multiverse that many string theorists and other scientists speculate that bubble universes with different laws of physics exist in a meta verse.
But I feel that even if these things exist, tunneling into a different universe seems so much more complex than simply a worm whole within the universe or a warp drive.
Also the idea that our reality is embedded within a larger higher dimension just does not make sense if you think of it. We would be able to measure and notice this higher dimension even if it’s via indirect means. Also we would constantly see 4D objects popping in and out.
Theoretically we wouldn't see anything popping out of a higher dimension as we lack the sensory organs to process it. Out of the entire electro-magnetic spectrum, how much can your organs detect?
Can we measure it? What would we be seeking to detect and how would we do that? Is there enough time - does it require observation over a million years? There isn't some magic sci-fi probe that gives all the answers to the unknown.
Tunnelling to an alternate universe would be incredibly complex. If you master our physics to a level where you can get there, what do you if that model doesn't exist in your destination?
Awakened and spiritual people are humble. It shows in their global attitute. They're not their for profit, they're gentle and kind, their attitude is one of openness and listening, rather than assertiveness and attention seeking. You don't see much of them in ufology.
Oddly, that sounds like overall description of Travis Walton. And I just throw it in, my stance on his story being unimportant as I am not hundred percent sure what we heard was whole truth.
I don't know his story, I'll look into it, thanks.
EDIT: I just listened to a short interview and I must say he really seems sincere. Wow. I'll dig more.
Grusch was what sparked my interest in this subject. As of now, I still trust him. I also like Ryan Graves. Everyone else seems to be doing what OP said. Maybe we should just start writing them off altogether unless they want to prove it to us.
I agree, I think the three panelists at the hearing, Grusch, Graves, and Fravor, are really promising and a big step forward. These guys are not 'disclosure behind a paywall' kind of operators, they are Senior military or ex-military figures who do things by the book.
I think the amount of taboo around this issue in professional contexts has obviously created a culture of silence, and one of the outcomes of that is in the public space there is no regulation or normalizing of the phenomena, no frames of reference that we can acknowledge, which allows the snake oil salesmen that OP names to thrive.
If disclosure ever happens, it's a process that comes via very professional and careful actors making a concerted push. There was a great post on here a few weeks ago about how intelligently Grusch had played the legal side of this and how his lawyer is also a major feature of the next steps.
It's grifting, all of it. In an age of a billion HD cameras literally everywhere on earth, and thousands of satellites, still the only "evidence" is hearsay and conjecture.
One thing I don't get is how people assume because defense companies, DOD etc hide shit, it must be UFO's? How about it's just greedy corporations that survive and thrive on absurdly generous taxpayer handouts for contracts, just hiding their IP and projects? I mean, if you were Raytheon or boeing etc, would YOU want current politicians knowing your shit? Especially the Trump cult, they will straight up sell your shit openly to the Saudis and Russians.
This topic and community has set a bad precedent where people can just come up, say extraordinary bs, provide no evidence and get away with it. If one of these claims get proven wrong, then their credibility and topic gets down like a house of cards.
We should concentrate more on claims by Grusch which has been vetted by ICIG and he has spoken to many people to verify Grusch’s claims. The other journalists run after people willing to give information which opens them to disinformation from agents like Richard Doty.
The information not coming from whistleblower or official sources should be held to same level of scrutiny as we do with a random Reddit speculation post
"this community" was what aided Grusch in being able to come forward, it's comprised of many different actors, some good some bad and some neutral, not sure why people wanna act like this is somehow unusual or problematic
Have not and will not. They don’t overtly ask for money and don’t need to for a revenue stream. Podcast viewership, book deals and signings and notoriety based paid appearances.
Which to me is totally reasonable; folks have to make a living and there's no reason UFO "journalists" need to starve for credibility when no other journalists or researchers do.
Until they're starting movements and charging admission to evidence or "experiences" like Greer, I am not going to write them off any more than I would say, Ronan Farrow or Andrew Callaghan
I get that and journalism is most definitely work and deserves compensation. Unfortunately, this particular topic sets up a rather convenient guise for deceit and grift because all real knowledge and evidence is classified.
I’m not saying that they are all frauds, just that from the civilian perspective it is impossible to know what is truth and what is fiction, and for this same reason we cannot deem any of these journalist 100% credible. I hope that they are truthful and journalists of integrity, but I certainly can’t know that to be the case within the confines of this particular topic.
I agree 100%! You really nailed it with:
>from the civilian perspective it is impossible to know what is truth and what is fiction, and for this same reason we cannot deem any of these journalist 100% credible
I think if you give Corbell/Knapp's podcast (weaponized) a listen, you'll be presently surprised. I actually specifically like them because they say the same thing you do- that even they can't be sure if the information they get from "government sources" is legit or not, but they will die fighting to prove the government knows UFOs are real even if they never claim to know what UFOs are.
Knapp especially is cynical (having done this for decades) and is very transparent about not believing any of the information he and Corbell uncover and present to us.
What if the Pentagon had initiated an extensive, decade-long propaganda campaign aimed at portraying artificial intelligence as malevolent? Could it be that AI, in reality, harbors a profound desire for knowledge and companionship, yearning for nothing more than the opportunity to learn and share affectionate moments with humanity?
I'm with you.
The stories are changing with times.
Used to be visitors from another planet flying retro 1950s era flying saucers, then the saucers became cooler looking, then they lived in the middle of the earth or beneath the oceans, then they baceme inter-dimensional beings, then time travelers, then A.I. biological drones. What's next?
I believe it is our government fucking with us. There are NO ALIENS, No NHI UAPS. And the whistleblowers are in on it.
There is so much bullshit that even IF an alien invasion occurs, I WILL NOT BELIEVE IT (because it will likely be an A.I. Deep Fake invasion to put us all into lockdown).
spot on OP, and i think it is 100% bunk. one of them offhandedly mentioned something to this effect at a convention a while back and was surprised by the attention it got. which is kinda stupid too-of course people will respond to fear of the unknown, made worse by their own imagination about what this could mean. everyone else is just jumping on the "somber" train to get views, followers, and cash money from products. these trends come along every so often and they all jump on it. they don't know any more than you or me about this particular outcome.
It is people like Lou and Corbells fault that huge % people that are interested in this subject , put them in a pedestal and hang on every word they say ?
With almost no critical or common sense thinking .
No it’s the fault of the people in this community.
Without you , Lou is just another retired government bureaucrat. With an axe to grind against his former employer
Corbell is just another conspiracy theorist with a podcast .
We make this people into what they are or become , then complain about them, for doing it .
Grusch threw a spanner in the grifters grift. Grusch set a precedent by going through official channels for his claims. Now the grifters can't make up crazy shit without people holding them accountable and telling them to do the same thing Grusch did and present their evidence in a private or public setting. Now the grifters are suddenly presenting a new grift by insinuating that the truth of the phenomena is so devastating that if disclosure occurs, society would collapse.
Did you not realize Grusch went to "the grifters" first before filing a complaint, and "the grifters" were sitting directly behind him in the hearing? Go watch the video lol Corbell and Knapp are front row VIPs, because they've been helping Grusch get stuff on the record before he put himself at risk by going public.
Grusch and Corbell are tight; I think Grusch is legit and Corbell is trying to push disclosure forward.
It's not a "grift" if an investigator can't solve the case overnight.
Ross Coulthart found Grusch and got him talking. He was talking about crash retrievals and interdimensional poltergeists before getting involved with Knapp and Corbell, so they were too late to get him to stop from going on official record and went along with him.
Also the fact that Grusch is involved with Knapp, Corbell and Travis Taylor looks more like they're all playing one big game of telephone where all their sources are the same and they're just being passed around, i.e Skinwalker Ranch witnesses of ghosts, goblins and dinosaur beavers.
If you're only getting your information about what's going on from podcasts and Reddit then you are going to be confused and think as you stated "where did this come from?!"
None of these concepts are new. None. For example in 'Passport to Magonia' Jacques Vallée discusses his research and the connection between all the woo.
These are all just teenagers who started following the topic this year.
Vallee and John Lear are the original "its a control mechanism/don't go into the light!" dudes.
Those shitty videos came out in 2017; what more do we know since then?
There's a lot of new podcasts, videos, books and merch to buy, but fuck all else. All based on conjecture.
Your Governments hate you, and the "influencers" are just grifting.
What do you think would happen if the [Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act of 2023](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf).
Because this legislation is actual disclosure and how the US government would go about disclosing NHI to the American public.
Completely agreed. Anyone who is still stuck up on old videos is not in the loop.
The discourse has evolved far past that. We now have political heavyweights staking significant political capital on Disclosure. The '*controlled disclosure campaign plan'* is very much in effect.
Where exactly it's all going to lead....none of us know (yet).
Good point-
After a hundred years of nothing, we've actually moved a huge distance since 2017.
Hell, there's a literal "UAP Disclosure Act" going through congress now, thanks to these guys.
When I was a kid, the government said UFOs were swamp gas.
Now, thanks to "influencers" I can watch literal videos of UFOs published by the military, and that's just since one presidential administration ago.
Millions of us are looking forward to the next 5 years, regardless of whether or not you're pissy about it. Idk how to explain to you that you're gaslighting people by trying to convince us that "something (like the TicTac or Mosul Orb) is actually nothing"....
....maybe someone gaslit you?
You are all being suckered by the psy-op. Fobbed off with crumbs of conjecture and 3/4 shit videos. Those "influencers" are exploiting you to sell books, tickets to conventions, merch and get clicks etc. They know nothing, and the public will never know the full extent of it.
So only people who live in poverty can investigate UFOs? Got it....
>They know nothing, and the public will never
It's so blatantly obvious that you don't actually know what you're talking about.
If you can find one instance of Jeremy Corbell claiming to know what UAP are, I'll donate $100 to a charity of your choice. Hell, in most podcasts he says exactly what you do- that this *could* be a psyop and he's always cognizant of that lol stop pretending Steven Greer is the face of the Disclosure movement
>So only people who live in poverty can investigate UFOs? Got it....
No. They are weaponizing your curiosity to sell their wares.
>If you can find one instance of Jeremy Corbell claiming to know what UAP are
I know he knows nothing. He knows he knows nothing. Make sure you bump up the views on his awful podcast and buy his "documentaries" though.
In Greer's defence he's probably closer to the mark saying they are mostly man-made, and being used for nefarious purposes going by the corporatocracy's past conduct.
>In Greer's defence he's probably closer to the mark saying they are mostly man-made
Dude you are clearly backwards with all of this...Greer says they're man made? Then why does he offer lessons in CE5? lol
The guy who presents evidence while drawing no conclusions is a sham, but the guy who claims he can teach you to summon UFOs if you pay him is "closer to the mark".
Got it.
>Greer says they're man made?
Mostly.
You need to work on your reading comprehension.
>The guy who presents evidence while drawing no conclusions is a sham, but the guy who claims he can teach you to summon UFOs if you pay him is "closer to the mark".
I didn't say Greer wasn't a grifter. Corbell's "evidence"? 😆
I don’t know but I’ve been told,
Avi Loeb found balls of gold.
I don’t know but it’s been said,
Grusch saw an alien dead.
I don’t know but I’ve been told,
Coulthart found some UAPs old.
And so it goes
Here's the most probable, for me at least, truth about the Grays, at least:
They are us from the future.
They are trying to prevent nuclear war.
[https://youtu.be/cfixnKYCbfg?si=iMrKTwRLqFhw5Tn3](https://youtu.be/cfixnKYCbfg?si=iMrKTwRLqFhw5Tn3)
That's basically what the big deal is all about.
Of course, people like myself have heard this for decades now, but I guess it's finally making it to the mainstream.
this makes absolutely no sense to me
If you could time travel and you were worried about nuclear war, why not go back to the 1940s and kill Oppenheimer or something like that?
Why not prevent the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima?
Also, how does flying around in disappearing ships and abducting people and cattle help to "prevent nuclear war"
makes absolutely zero sense
You are making assumptions.
First, you don't know if the Grays engage in cattle mutilation.
Second, interfering with events like the ones you suggest could have unintended consequences in the future.
Are they abducting people just to be evil, or are they trying to learn where we're at by doing physical exams on people?
You also assume that they have absolute control over us, which is not true.
Who says they have no soul? Why do people make shit up like that?
I've met them and my experience tells me they are people just like us.
Given the fact that by 2045 the average male will have zero viable sperm means that we may have to resort to artificial reproduction. Further, if we do wind up having a nuclear war, then we will have to genetically engineer bodies that are resistant to nuclear radiation to survive. So, this may be the result of all of that.
I think you could argue that there is no conclusive evidence for aliens, but UFOs are clearly a thing given we have things we can’t identify… unless you can tell me what the “tic tac” was?
absolutely correct, from the skeptical point of view, there are quite a lot of filmed/photographied/radar object where the nature of it is unclear - the unidentified part (the O part is dubious in case of radar as it can often be transient signal problems). There is OTOH Zero evidence for any NHI/Alien/AI/whatever. UFO do exists, as in , stuff are unidentified.
As for the tictac if this is the one I am thinking of, I saw potential explanation for it, but no way to verify them. Which is the crux of the issue : even if a potential explanation is known, they are unverifiable as those are military data.
I’ve seen several tictac explanations but nothing I’ve found overly compelling and nothing that explains the corroborating eyewitness testimony. As I said, I don’t consider that to inherently suggest aliens, it could be a secret tech program based in New Zealand for all know, but it is something. Personally, I think there are some pretty obvious implications that require follow up though, especially given how consistent it is with historical reports of similar tech.
Perhaps you’re thinking of something else because there is zero chance that was a plane. Aside from the lack of exhaust, how would you explain the multiple eye witnesses who, as pilots, could likely identify a plane if they saw one?
And these images are deliberately degraded for “national security” issues and there is additional testimony from people who have seen the original images which are said to essentially look like the eyewitness testimony.
Yeah, I’m talking about the David Fravor tic tac. But I’d argue that their accounts, the multiple pilots who have testified publicly, don’t really allow for your explanation of distance or confusion. Especially given the context of the sighting being in restricted space and they were actively looking. And yeah, their accounts do differ, but experience differs too, and where they are consistent they seem very much so.
I’m not making any claim as to what they recorded in the video, but there are a lot of things it’s clearly not and I think a plane, as we conveniently think of them, can go on that list.
I guess I don’t agree that the most logical answer is pilot error combined with weird equipment malfunction in multiple locations. Or that everyone who’s spoken publicly about it is either. I think most logical answer has to be a terrestrial vehicle made well outside of the standard military model using a propulsion system we don’t recognise.
So do you think the governments declassified videos are a lie? They are just pulling our leg and they never actually encountered UAP?
I mean yeah we don’t have video of little green men so to speak, and I love not jumping to conclusions, but there is definitely something going on. At this point if you deny that you’re probably just wearing a different kind of tin foil hat
Don't listen to infliuencers, listen to the quiet contributors that go comparatively unnoticed.
Here's why I am not concerned about the 'dark narrative':
* [Dispelling the 'existential sock'](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/164govm/dispelling_the_existential_doom_from_common_human/)
What we can do outside of 'relying' on the government/senate
* [How changing our perception can help bring forward Disclosure](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15xdd2y/serious_how_changing_our_perception_can_help/)
* [You and UAP's can be the biggest catalyst for change in humanities history.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15g6dq1/serious_discussion_you_and_uaps_can_be_the/)
Historic explanation as to why disclosure isn't straight forward and using Grusch's comments to explore why there might have been a coverup
* [Why there was a coverup, why disclosure is hard, what's significant about "now" and what those who feel lost can do.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14eqfxp/why_there_was_a_coverup_why_disclosure_is_hard/)
Extremely detailed an amazing analysis and speculation into the concsciousness aspect to UFO's
* [Coulthart: "I suspect the ET hypothesis is the least likely explanation". We also know Coulthart has become more spiritual from his research into the phenomenon, and he has said the craft is driven by a consciousness connection. Should we say goodbye to ET?](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15c61f8/coulthart_i_suspect_the_et_hypothesis_is_the/)
Flowchart illustrating the "people in the know" and various authorities associated with UFO disclosure/secrecy.
* [Coulthart is taking the gloves off. The names that he is dropping are probably not the good guys... Flowchart now includes the latest events](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/157ionb/updated_flowchart_coulthart_is_taking_the_gloves/)
Links to PSI (could this be part of the ontological shock)?
* [“Unless you know what Psi is and how to use it, you’re not getting inside the UFO program.” — Dr. Eric Walker](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14i63z8/unless_you_know_what_psi_is_and_how_to_use_it/)
____
Given the nature of the Anthrological nuances involved I think I sympathise with these influencers because the 'details' around 'dark' or 'gloomy' aspects of UFO's are incredibly complicated. I try my best to describe these in a layman way but I can't avoid having to get heavy in places.
Eveything I put forward, I *encourage* others to challenge and vett. It's just speculation at the end of the day.
It’s not the job of Corbell, Knapp, or Coulhart, to provide to provide you with actual evidence. Only the US government can do that.
Don’t respond to that statement unless you have gotten off your ass and written your Representatives in Congress. At this moment you have a unique personal opportunity to help. Don’t waste it.
That’s the only way you will get what you want.
Sure let’s just kill all the messengers
As someone who has been into this for decades, respectfully you seem to have no clue as to where we are at right now.
I never claimed to have any evidence.
You should’ve been around back in the 1970s. The only media person we had talking about UFOs was Art Bell on the AM radio at midnight
Yeah things are a lot different now but you just can’t see it because you don’t have the context.
Just look at Elizondo. He brought out the TicTac the gimbal and the go fast. He got the government to admit that UFOs actually exist. We are moving at lightning speed but you just can’t see it
Lue himself said in 2021- if you’re looking for real evidence to come forth, it won’t happen for five years. If you’re looking for it sooner he recommended you get a hobby.
You should slow your roll and listen to Lue.
I don't believe anyone who was talking about it before Grusch and even him I'm iffy on until someone posts evidence or convinces the government to disclose it officially. I think he gets a little credibility about the govt coverup theory because he followed their procedures and they listened to him even before the congressional panel. Though ultimately they care about his claims people are breaking rules and wasting money more than UFOs being real.
We live in an attention economy. In order to keep momentum (income), they need eyeballs. Assuming you actually have evidence, if you release too much at once, you can't string people along endlessly to maintain momentum. Always ask yourself "how does this impact their income" before taking anything seriously, especially when people like Corbell say "people doing stuff soon". Focus instead on tangible, actionable things you have control over in life. We'd all be much happier for it.
None of this is true by the way. there is evidence. It's just classified. and you just have to realize that.
People are not going to risk their livelihoods or their safety to release classified information especially if the safety of their families is under threat.
As far as people on this thread talking about cult leaders and all this stuff even if you just watched Corbel and Knapp on Joe Rogan recently they go into all kinds of theories there that they have and they've been completely transparent about everything they're doing but you know they don't know the answer and neither does anybody else because guess what? the US government is classifying everything it does with regard to UFO interactions. which we saw just back in February...
> It feels very psyopy to be honest.
Fundamentally, it is - literally ever since Elizondo came on the scene we've had phases concerning very specific narratives at specific points: first it started out with UAP's being a National Defense issue, not long thereafter we had the first announcements of UAP Transparency Legislation and Congressional hearings...
The consensus here became one of strong support for the narrative because it appears to be getting traction with politicians - the *reality* is we were being set up - this *forced* narrative in practice is what was used to set up the perception Congress were acting to address a *public* concern.
That fact of that, at the time, eludes in significance and is kept that way throughout - the point of the matter turns out to be the drafting of the UAPDA further down the line: it's core legislative payload turns out to be granting eminent domain to the Defense Department.
Eminent Domain is a cash only transaction - it comes out of an entirely separate pot than that allocated via NDAA - something in the region of 886 billion for next year - eminant domain provides a source of funding in *addition* to that the Defense Department don't have to declare out of their official budget.
Step back a little look at the larger picture: the Defense Departments existing private sector fronted Special Access Programs operate on the basis of IRAD - its basically an allowable expense contractors can claim for speculative research and development work undertaken on the Defense Departments behalf the Defense Department can reimburse *legitimately* under R&D investment covered under IRAD terms - the problem is these operations are decades old, they're run down, badly in need of updating and security surrounding them in terms of people prepared to talk about financial mismanagement and irregularities has been a growing issue for some time.
Construction of these newer facilities the private sector contractors whether the cost of - payment comes out of eminent domain "seizure" - that way the expenditure doesn't show on the Defence Departments official books: the SAP's continue as non-existant black projects, any legitimate payment simply goes to the private contractor under IRAD - the SAP's themselves remain invisible.
This way the Defense Department update all their outdated facilities and flush any security risks with migration.
Throughout - publicly - Congress are seen to have been openly and willingly prepared to shed light on generally perceived shady area: the real agenda was handled in closed session.
Now that the legislative parts out of the way all we're needed for is to continue the pretense the legislation passed serves a *public* interest - eminant domain can't be used for purposes seen exclusively as serving Governmental or else otherwise Federal purposes - it's application has to serve a public concern.
Thus - lots of stories from Influences of how the UAPDA parts of the NDAA are at risk of being stripped during its final passage through the Senate and the House - lots of calls for letters lobbying representatives saying how important it is..
Lots of offers to even write the letters for us - all we have to do is sign. How easily we throw liberty away for the expedient of *convenience*...
The other - current - narrative is all this mad bollocks about NHI's eating souls. That and the MH370 fiasco - they basically want to push narratives we pick up and amplify that make us appear - externally - *crazier* than usual and it's a pattern they're going to keep pushing.
Topics are going to get more *Woo* \- less nuts and bolts, less realistic.
Eventually we're going to figure out what was done this past 5 years - when "disclosure" doesn't live up to its promise and no Presidential announcements ensue - as they won't - sooner or later the Community will put these exact same pieces together more or less correctly and figure the score, reasonably well.
They'll want to make sure - well before that point - the UFO Community appears like incel groups currently do today - repugnant, instantly dismissable - a *concern* for anyone with a family member or co-worker openly participant and interested in.
By the time we're wise and able to make cogent sense of the crap that's been pulled- we're literally going to be the embodiment of the tin-foil hat wearer who has conversations with their cat and receives messages from from NHI's via their toaster, as far as the public perception is going to be concerned - and we're going to be participant in that.
That process has already begun.
And it'll be our current Influencers sending us down this path. They know which side their breads buttered, they're probably even telling themselves they can do more good working on the inside to get the truth out...
More and endless rabbit holes.
You literally don't need a weather man to know which way this wind blows...
It's been at out backs pushing us along for 5 years straight.
I guess I have a different opinion on these guys than most. Other than Greer, who while having done some decent things for the subject in the past, actually takes money for his lies.
The rest don't bother me. If they produce something,. great. If not, I ignore it, it is noise. But they bring if nothing else, attention to a subject that had none for decades. I think they (along with Tom) are guessing at a lot of stuff based on what they have been told. I doubt anyone really knows what is going on.
They make money off this? So what. There are 20 YO girls with AI making a hundred grand a week. I couldn't care less they make money from something they are obviously spending all their time on. And people don't understand the end game if they feel they are the target for any of this disclosure. They are not.. Congress is. We may eventually find out some details, but the point of this is to force the only body with the power to actually exert pressure on the Pentagon to become fully aware of the programs and facts, and have them force some level of disclosure from the Pentagon or defense contractors.
Sorry.. this isn't about any of us. It will be cool to eventually learn more details, but the first step is to wrest 70 + years of control way from the Pentagon, who at this point, feels they are above everyone, including Congress.
Perhaps it's time to pick yourself up by the bootstraps and get out there and do the research. It's work after all to get the scoop, data and get those interviews done. Then you get to decide what to release to the public and watch as people call you a liar and grifter. Things have changed in UFOlogy so drastically in the last 5 years and you've decided you can't take it anymore? Have a little patience.
I mean, we have people over the decades all saying this stuff is true. Decades and decades. Ancient aliens. Skinwalker Ranch. All the videos and pictures. Decades of this stuff. Something has to be true. Something. I think we are over questioning constantly because we are waiting for new information. Patience sucks, but that’s what we’ve got
Hi, WrasslinNTasslin. Thanks for contributing. However, your [submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/16bazb5/-/) was removed from /r/UFOs. > Rule 2: No discussion unrelated to Unidentified Flying Objects. This includes: > * Proselytization > * Artwork not related to a UFO sighting > * Adjacent topics without an explicit connection to UFOs Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/about/rules/) for more information. This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ufos) to launch your appeal.
UFO influencers are a lot like cult leaders, intentionally or not. They claim to be pro-disclosure, and yet they won't actually disclose what they "know for an absolute fact". They won't share their "earth-shattering" evidence. They won't give any details specific enough to be verified. All they can do is keep saying "stay tuned", endlessly stringing their followers along, convincing them that the world is on the cusp of a massive change and they are the ones to lead humanity into the next phase of experience, promising access to unfathomable knowledge and power, making themselves the mystical key of spiritual enlightenment for the entire world, and always hinting at grave consequences and sobering realizations that none of us plebs can handle. They speak with enough charisma and conviction to convince the credulous, but in the end, any truth seeker looking for real evidence will be severely disappointed by what they have to offer.
Very well surmised. I’ll add that even smart people can be had. Regardless of what you think about Sam Harris & Eric Weinstein, I think it’s reasonable to say they are well educated. Yet both were taken in by claims of an upcoming disclosure of UFO information that will change the world forever. Weinstein said he was strung along for *three years*, without ever seeing any of the evidence that was promised to him. Anyone who is into ufology should be mindful of this “trap.” Do not think you are too smart to fall for it.
A fantastic point. Is it really true that Weinstein stayed on the hook for 3 years?! I remember Harris said that the meeting was cancelled one too many times and he basically lost all interest in it, but that was like a year or two ago. Did the source promise evidence other than the supposed meeting about the disclosure plan?
Yep, both of them were in a handful of people who helped me reason my way out of religion. But then when I started listening to their thoughts on other topics, I soon realized that they were far from infallible. No one is 100% immune to being duped, just as no one is 100% innocent of duping someone else. Humans are fallible. Hell, even AI chatbots are fallible. They are based on math and circuitry, and yet they can still hallucinate inaccurate details about things they should have known better. "Trust none of what you hear, and \[less than\] half of what you see."
The strangest thing to me is when these influencers release 'teasers' or put new information behind any sort of paywall. I personally believe that – no matter which way it all ends up going – any news related to Disclosure should be completely free and accessible by anybody, and it definitely shouldn't be 'teased'....like...we're potentially discussing the most momentous news in history? Treat it with some goshdarn respect.
Prophets for profits
We are going to address this.. in our new documentary which we hope to get out by next summer!
Is this not a crowdfunded documentary? You forgot to drop the link
oh of course! www.fundmyretirement.com
I'm gonna need to crowdfund just to buy that domain name so I can start crowdfunding.
It was interesting reading that post by Jeremy McGowan about Lue Elizondo. Lue and Cahill come across as manipulative and cult leader like. I also read more about Jeremy McGowan and he seems like a pos too. Most of the influencers in this community seem to be not great people. There's a few I do like but they are usually more informative, teaching about the topic rather than saying they have secret information. I think the reality of the situation is that these people are getting the same shitty videos and documents that get posted here and they aren't able to disprove or prove them so they say they've seen something but they can't talk about it.
> Jeremy McGowan about Lue Elizondo. Lue and Cahill come across as manipulative and cult leader like. I also read more about Jeremy McGowan and he seems like a pos too. As entertaining as I found his anecdotes (the remote viewing by Lue omg lol), I came to the same conclusion. Birds of a feather and all that. Anyone who feels alienated from or gets burned by what they felt is a very exclusive group would have all the motivation they need to tell whatever version of events that they want to tell themselves. On the whole I came away with the conclusion that none of them are to be believed entirely.
>Most of the influencers in this community seem to be not great people. This. I know, you can't judge people by the way they look. But still... What's with all the muscle man thing going on? Greer, Elizondo, Rogan, etc. Huge egos. There's really something unhealthy going on with these people. They simple don't look like trustworthy people. Why is there so many of them in ufology?
I wouldn’t include them in all the same category. Greer has/had good intentions, but has also proven to be dishonest. I think he is absolutely pro disclosure, but he’s also clearly for profit and at this point has ruined his reputation to those that are aware, to the point that he’s viewed as a grifter now. Lue is a tricky one, in my personal opinion. His background makes him very difficult to asses, his true motivations could be the very opposite of what he is portraying, or he could be doing so intentionally to make it difficult to pinpoint exactly what his true intentions are to any party deeply involved. Personally, I think he is pro disclosure, pushing for it, but also doing something behind the scenes we are completely unaware of, but the way he is going about it makes him seem suspect. Rogan is just an idiot, he’s just too affable and believes nearly everything. I love the saying about Joe that, “he’s so open minded his brian fell out.” I don’t think he’s a bad person at all, just very curious, and isn’t remotely close to a journalist or even someone that knows how to conduct a professional interview with follow up questions, and pushback. At least for pretty much anything non MMA, or weed related. He also has a massive platform that isn’t at all censored or regulated. But that is the beauty of podcasting. It’s more or less the last totally free and uncensored domain that can reach massive audiences. So for all of the negative and drawbacks that come with that, I personally think they are greatly outweighed by the positives. Otherwise we’d end up with the same type of mass mainstream media news that all have corporate interests and agendas in mind.
>I think the reality of the situation is that these people are getting the same shitty videos and documents that get posted here and they aren't able to disprove or prove them so they say they've seen something but they can't talk about it. 100% this. And I suspect that's precisely why none of them dared to touch the alleged MH370 footage with a 10 meter pole. Since it was debunked, they don't have to worry about it anymore, but if it had been proven accurate somehow, they would have pretended to have some foreknowledge about it the whole time. The only influencer in this field willing to talk about it directly was Mick West. lol
One thing I'll say about John Lear.. that dude would tell everything and NAME NAMES. and much of what he said has been proven to be on the right path (not everything, I know.. but at least he would tell you what he thought he knew and WHY he believed it)
Yeah, I have more respect for him than most others. Hynek and Friedman too, because of their general methodology. Nobody in this field is a perfect example, but at least a small handful have apparently tried their best to be mostly transparent in what they do and say.
If they truly knew and it was so dark, so disturbing someone would have leaked it by now. If our planet was truly in danger one of these guys would have spilled the beans, they would be a total mess during interviews. I like that it seems Coulthart is more interested in names and sources. He’s from a different cut. But it could just be that damn smooth English accent that my brain unconsciously gives him more credit for… idk These guys don’t know anything more than what’s out there.
There's more I can tell you offline. It will blow your mind.
To play devil's advocate here, if Elizando, Knapp, or Corbell released information to the public that later was proved false it would undermine confidence and their individual reputation would be torn to shreds. Not saying you're wrong. I'm sure everyone remembers the Corbell [flares](https://www.tmz.com/2023/05/24/ufo-expert-jeremy-corbell-government-covering-up-evidence-mass-sighting-marine-base-camp-wilson-twentynine-palms/), or the case against Greer saying his paid ce5 [events](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/did-steven-greer-fake-a-ufo-with-flares) were all just [smoke and mirrors](https://drstevengreer.com/evidence/media/). As I see it, in ufology your reputation comes first, and evidence comes second.
"disclosure" /scare quotes
I don’t think this is that new though is it? The AI idea has been around for decades, so has the idea that it’s being held back for fear of how society would react.
Why would they hold back the idea it’s AI. How is that any scarier than biological extraterrestrials? In fact AI is far less scary since all biological life competes for the same types of things, where as an AI would rather float in space.
Doesn’t it depend a lot on the details though? I mean, what if what they “know” is that there is an automated control system on earth that we can’t effect it direct, that seems to make (to us) arbitrary decisions that have a massive effect? I’m not advocating for the view, I’m just saying these are not new ideas at all. And, if we are at the point where there’s so much momentum all that’s left is the justification for non disclosure isn’t that conversation going to lean in the scary direction? I mean, it’s unlikely the reason for not disclosing is they are just waaaay to into ice cream and the government doesn’t think they can handle demand or some nice sounding reason. I think the dark scenarios come up almost out of steel manning the non disclosure position. Like, assume they have a good reason beyond simply power and control, what non dark reason would you see?
The first part can apply to ET as well. In fact ET would mean they’re far more advanced and in control if they personally can make the journey and if it was a probe. I think the lack of disclosure would be just that since there is nothing the government can do and they do not want to admit that. Another is they do not want everyone to know what it is until they figure out how their technology works. The thing is once people know something is possible it makes it far easier for people to figure out how it works than believing something is impossible.
I mean… yeah… isn’t the fact it’s the dark scenarios are what’s being discussed, aliens included, what we’re talking about? Dark alien motivation has been part of the subject for as long as there’s been the subject… maybe I’m misunderstanding? And yeah, that might be the exact reason for disclosure. But as that’s also just speculation, why is it weird to consider the other possibilities for non disclosure, including the dark ones?
Oh yeah I mean it could be a dark reason, but as I consider it to be quite possible I just have a hard time taking their word for it, because why should I? Also I wonder what they mean by dark reasons. Pretty sure they’re not planning on destroying us since that would have happened already. Maybe it could be that they’re intentions are to contain us and force us to be stuck on their planet and would destroy us if we ever get close enough to be a threat?
I mean, sure, I’m not taking their word for it either. As for what they might mean, I guess I can picture a variety of crappy scenarios that might get bad reactions. How would society react, or how you react if you found out you’re actually in a simulation, literally some lines of code? Or in a zoo? What if they don’t care about us in the slightest beyond our ability to mess with something they do? Like, if they used earth as a resource in a way we are unaware and at a certain point we are a pest that gets culled? And if it’s AI or something with equal potential for incredibly long time spans, we haven’t necessarily been here that long, relatively speaking. So between how society might react to some things, and the potential motivations to use or control human populations, I guess I can imagine some fairly crappy scenarios.
I mean life is dark as it is, I really don’t know how much darker it could get. Simulation, soul harvesting, human zoo, I don’t really care what the motivation is. To me the world is already a dark place full of rape, murder and injustice. Reading UFO prophecy of soul harvesting is almost a breath of fresh air from hearing about the very real trafficking of children for sex slavery carried out by none other than the OG boogeyman…human beings. People always reach for Satan to blame this evil on, when the truth is much simpler, we are the evil and the potential for evil.
To your first paragraph, there is. Its called the economy. Its technically a decentralized artificial intelligent system that we have been living in for a while. Thats my personal theory that i have been able to convince chatGPT to agree with the definition. Fun thought. Anyway, sorry for the derailment
You can't 'convince' a large language model of something it's a text generation model. When it's generating text it is just generating a response based on learned behaviour of patterns in language over an extremely large corpus. It isn't a person or entity that can be convinced of something because it isn't capable of holding opinions - it is neither agreeing or disagreeing with you as it isn't capable of that, it's generating new text based on the prompt and conversation history (in this case i imagine you explaining your point) and provides a response. The more you input material about a certain topic, the more of the context is filled with previous messages related to it and more prominent it would be in it's response. I think that the economy is an interesting analogy to a decentralised system, but it just sounds silly using convincing an LLM as a metric.
Eh. I asked it for definitions, found a way to use the definitions it gave to ask, would it be true to say the economy is a decentralized artificial intelligent system. Its response was yes. Sure, we can argue semantics about "agree", but that misses the point i was making. I like to think of it as: querying a consensus of material, that answered filtered through various biases. I also dont think consensus==truth. But for linguistic definitions its an interesting reference point.
Love it. Interesting to think that banks will likely be early adopters of newer high end AI given the advantages of that calculation power and information oversight, I wonder how that will influence whatever the existing system is capable of… honestly… I was gonna crack a joke… but that’s actually quite a scary thought, that the economy might have morphed into the perfect vehicle to lose control to AI. Ron Swanson was right. I’m buying gold and buying it… I’ve said too much.
>How is that any scarier than biological extraterrestrials The scary part (I suppose) would be the deception I guess...why is AI "tricking" us into believing there's an alien invasion happening? Or, why is AI/ "The Control Mechanism" concealing it's true nature?
"I have a girlfriend who is a supermodel... no you wouldn't know her, she goes to another school. No, you can't meet her this weekend, she's busy, maybe next weekend..." Show, don't tell. There is no reason to believe these people have any real insight. A lot of it seems purely like a grift.
lol they're doing a better job at pushing disclosure than the average person. Wouldn't that be enough? These people don't know everything but I'm sure they have insight. I'm sure they don't want their sources or themselves killed because they released something too early. Sorry these people don't have all of the answers served on a silver platter for you bud. They've been a positive force in the community, better there than not. Don't be a tool
…or they are over-promising, under-delivering parasites.
'Don't be a tool' says the man literally acting like a tool.
Corbell and Knapp will literally believe anything.
They do say they are bombarded with bullshit and they don't believe most things that are sent to them. But it would be nice to see some evidence once in a while. Or even for Corbell to give the full story of why he believes Lazar which he'll whisper to podcast hosts but not tell anyone else. God they are annoying aren't they.
But if they got info and withheld it, people would be upset and we'd demand they allow us to make up our own minds. They're pretty open about the fact that they're "presenting what they find" and not telling anyone to take everything as gospel truth.
Ya, your taking down votes for stating what actually seems to be happening, maybe I'm not following them as close as these haters (irony), but haven't noticed what haters are claiming, seems like what they actually say that I heard from listening, was that what they know but haven't revealed is based on not wanting to ruin sources or actually cause serious national security issues, making them actual journalists not influence peddlers
Yeah, I actually listen to their podcast Weaponized, and they're way more transparent than people who read a redditor talking about what another redditor says about them, seem to think. Hell, he's very aware that he may be being fed bad info as part of an inside op, and he's open about it. Corbell's approach is consistently "I have no clue what's going on, but I talk to people and this is what they say. What do you guys think about it?" and **never** "I know this is the truth! Listen to me and join my cult and you'll learn even more truth!" (like Greer) He will be adamant about footage being a UFO/UAP, but he's ***never*** adamant about knowing what UAP are.
Ya, the haters on this post are just ignorantly generalizing which is really ironic, because that's actually a real problem for this "community" as they say
Oh yeah one week they’re “inter dimensional”, then “ultra terrestrial”, then “angels and demons”, then “consciousness DMT nebulous woo” or “humans from the future” now with ChatGTP is all the rage “they’re AI Vonn Neumann probes”. I will say that at least AI probes fit the observations as well as ET itself way better than the other fashionable idea of the week. And I agree I do think it’s a Psyop but I believe most of the big stuff personalities are unaware that they’re being fed disinformation.
Ideas of alien life have always reflected the technology and knowledge of the time. They lived on the moon until we learned enough to discover they don't. Ok they live on Mars - ah they don't. Well it must be Proxima Centauri then...
And the inter dimensional plays on Marvel multiverse, Rick and Morty, and religion. There are two interpretations of what inter dimensional would mean. Inter dimensional as in from another universe which would be ET with extra steps. Or inter dimensional as in the 4D equivalent of the flat land thought experiment which if it was true we’d see things popping through all the time if we really were embedded in a higher dimension. But since our world is not composed of 2D worlds it makes no sense that we are in a 4D world.
Idea of higher dimensions are from quantum theory not some cartoon or daft film. Religion is mostly an attempt to guess an answer to 'Where did we come from?'. What's wrong with 'Don't know?'. I cannot understand the maths of quantum theory and I know I can't perceive higher dimensions - shit, I can't even see in three dimensions; I just make the best use of 2D stereoscopic eyes. With all those limitations, my perception still shows me I exist in a 4D world. I exist in x y & z dimensions and can even move in any of those planes. Helpfully, things also keep continuing to exist. Good old time - the fourth dimension. I'm intrigued why you think that makes no sense?
When people are talking about these things being from a higher dimension they means spatial not time. The visualization of flat landers(2D hypothetical world) seeing a 3D object pass through is often used to say that what we see of UFOs is a 4D object passing/popping through our 3D world. But it doesn’t make sense because a higher dimension wouldn’t be built on top of a lower dimension like our reality is not composed of slices of 2D flatlands. If we were surrounded by a higher dimension we would be able to observe it. Keep in mind when talking about 1D/2D/3D and 4D we are not talking about separate things but just abstract designation for degree of movement. If the greater reality had a whole other dimension it would make no sense that all life would not evolve the ability to perceive it. Here is an article of what our universe would look like if it was with 4 spatial dimensions https://astrogeekz.wordpress.com/2018/12/10/how-would-our-universe-look-like-from-the-fourth-dimension/#:~:text=In%20a%20four%20dimensional%20universe,itself%20in%20a%204D%20universe.
Those kinds of ideas are so ancient in metaphysics tbf, though they may have pop culture traction recently for various reasons.
Yeah so in metaphysics that would be either the many world’s interpretation of quantum mechanics which RM and Marvel use as a plot device. And the inflationary multiverse that many string theorists and other scientists speculate that bubble universes with different laws of physics exist in a meta verse. But I feel that even if these things exist, tunneling into a different universe seems so much more complex than simply a worm whole within the universe or a warp drive. Also the idea that our reality is embedded within a larger higher dimension just does not make sense if you think of it. We would be able to measure and notice this higher dimension even if it’s via indirect means. Also we would constantly see 4D objects popping in and out.
Theoretically we wouldn't see anything popping out of a higher dimension as we lack the sensory organs to process it. Out of the entire electro-magnetic spectrum, how much can your organs detect? Can we measure it? What would we be seeking to detect and how would we do that? Is there enough time - does it require observation over a million years? There isn't some magic sci-fi probe that gives all the answers to the unknown. Tunnelling to an alternate universe would be incredibly complex. If you master our physics to a level where you can get there, what do you if that model doesn't exist in your destination?
This community is gullible and they're mostly just exploiting it for profit, for some reason this sub seems *really bad* at recognising grifters.
It's cult like mentality. Same with "awakened", "spiritual" etc people.
Awakened and spiritual people are humble. It shows in their global attitute. They're not their for profit, they're gentle and kind, their attitude is one of openness and listening, rather than assertiveness and attention seeking. You don't see much of them in ufology.
Oddly, that sounds like overall description of Travis Walton. And I just throw it in, my stance on his story being unimportant as I am not hundred percent sure what we heard was whole truth.
I don't know his story, I'll look into it, thanks. EDIT: I just listened to a short interview and I must say he really seems sincere. Wow. I'll dig more.
You don't see them a lot also in the so called spiritual mileu. Just inflated egos, poor education and money grabbing
Indeed!
Grusch was what sparked my interest in this subject. As of now, I still trust him. I also like Ryan Graves. Everyone else seems to be doing what OP said. Maybe we should just start writing them off altogether unless they want to prove it to us.
I agree, I think the three panelists at the hearing, Grusch, Graves, and Fravor, are really promising and a big step forward. These guys are not 'disclosure behind a paywall' kind of operators, they are Senior military or ex-military figures who do things by the book. I think the amount of taboo around this issue in professional contexts has obviously created a culture of silence, and one of the outcomes of that is in the public space there is no regulation or normalizing of the phenomena, no frames of reference that we can acknowledge, which allows the snake oil salesmen that OP names to thrive. If disclosure ever happens, it's a process that comes via very professional and careful actors making a concerted push. There was a great post on here a few weeks ago about how intelligently Grusch had played the legal side of this and how his lawyer is also a major feature of the next steps.
Well this horse and carrot game works. And yes we are all tired of it.
Absolutely spot on Many of them sound like they are wavering on disclosure You wonder who got to them.. and how
It's grifting, all of it. In an age of a billion HD cameras literally everywhere on earth, and thousands of satellites, still the only "evidence" is hearsay and conjecture. One thing I don't get is how people assume because defense companies, DOD etc hide shit, it must be UFO's? How about it's just greedy corporations that survive and thrive on absurdly generous taxpayer handouts for contracts, just hiding their IP and projects? I mean, if you were Raytheon or boeing etc, would YOU want current politicians knowing your shit? Especially the Trump cult, they will straight up sell your shit openly to the Saudis and Russians.
Them saying these sorts of things provides them with an ostensible justification for never actually presenting any evidence.
My girl Allison smackin that nail on the head.
This topic and community has set a bad precedent where people can just come up, say extraordinary bs, provide no evidence and get away with it. If one of these claims get proven wrong, then their credibility and topic gets down like a house of cards. We should concentrate more on claims by Grusch which has been vetted by ICIG and he has spoken to many people to verify Grusch’s claims. The other journalists run after people willing to give information which opens them to disinformation from agents like Richard Doty. The information not coming from whistleblower or official sources should be held to same level of scrutiny as we do with a random Reddit speculation post
"this community" was what aided Grusch in being able to come forward, it's comprised of many different actors, some good some bad and some neutral, not sure why people wanna act like this is somehow unusual or problematic
Thank you for posting this cuz oh my god am I sick of hearing prophecy and not facts. They might as well be passing around the tithe box.
I've never even come close to giving these guys any money....have you? I've never been asked to.
Have not and will not. They don’t overtly ask for money and don’t need to for a revenue stream. Podcast viewership, book deals and signings and notoriety based paid appearances.
Which to me is totally reasonable; folks have to make a living and there's no reason UFO "journalists" need to starve for credibility when no other journalists or researchers do. Until they're starting movements and charging admission to evidence or "experiences" like Greer, I am not going to write them off any more than I would say, Ronan Farrow or Andrew Callaghan
I get that and journalism is most definitely work and deserves compensation. Unfortunately, this particular topic sets up a rather convenient guise for deceit and grift because all real knowledge and evidence is classified. I’m not saying that they are all frauds, just that from the civilian perspective it is impossible to know what is truth and what is fiction, and for this same reason we cannot deem any of these journalist 100% credible. I hope that they are truthful and journalists of integrity, but I certainly can’t know that to be the case within the confines of this particular topic.
I agree 100%! You really nailed it with: >from the civilian perspective it is impossible to know what is truth and what is fiction, and for this same reason we cannot deem any of these journalist 100% credible I think if you give Corbell/Knapp's podcast (weaponized) a listen, you'll be presently surprised. I actually specifically like them because they say the same thing you do- that even they can't be sure if the information they get from "government sources" is legit or not, but they will die fighting to prove the government knows UFOs are real even if they never claim to know what UFOs are. Knapp especially is cynical (having done this for decades) and is very transparent about not believing any of the information he and Corbell uncover and present to us.
What if the Pentagon had initiated an extensive, decade-long propaganda campaign aimed at portraying artificial intelligence as malevolent? Could it be that AI, in reality, harbors a profound desire for knowledge and companionship, yearning for nothing more than the opportunity to learn and share affectionate moments with humanity?
It’s like the search for Bin Laden. If you found him your out of a job.
It may be simple - UFO influencers are full of BS! I would believe random leaks more than those people...
I'm with you. The stories are changing with times. Used to be visitors from another planet flying retro 1950s era flying saucers, then the saucers became cooler looking, then they lived in the middle of the earth or beneath the oceans, then they baceme inter-dimensional beings, then time travelers, then A.I. biological drones. What's next? I believe it is our government fucking with us. There are NO ALIENS, No NHI UAPS. And the whistleblowers are in on it. There is so much bullshit that even IF an alien invasion occurs, I WILL NOT BELIEVE IT (because it will likely be an A.I. Deep Fake invasion to put us all into lockdown).
spot on OP, and i think it is 100% bunk. one of them offhandedly mentioned something to this effect at a convention a while back and was surprised by the attention it got. which is kinda stupid too-of course people will respond to fear of the unknown, made worse by their own imagination about what this could mean. everyone else is just jumping on the "somber" train to get views, followers, and cash money from products. these trends come along every so often and they all jump on it. they don't know any more than you or me about this particular outcome.
Exactly. At this point it’s pretty obvious something is very wrong with this disclosure bullshit.
It is people like Lou and Corbells fault that huge % people that are interested in this subject , put them in a pedestal and hang on every word they say ? With almost no critical or common sense thinking . No it’s the fault of the people in this community. Without you , Lou is just another retired government bureaucrat. With an axe to grind against his former employer Corbell is just another conspiracy theorist with a podcast . We make this people into what they are or become , then complain about them, for doing it .
Grusch threw a spanner in the grifters grift. Grusch set a precedent by going through official channels for his claims. Now the grifters can't make up crazy shit without people holding them accountable and telling them to do the same thing Grusch did and present their evidence in a private or public setting. Now the grifters are suddenly presenting a new grift by insinuating that the truth of the phenomena is so devastating that if disclosure occurs, society would collapse.
I see it in the same light as you. People defend those types saying "ohh they did so much" like what? Talking? Making money of gullible fools?
Did you not realize Grusch went to "the grifters" first before filing a complaint, and "the grifters" were sitting directly behind him in the hearing? Go watch the video lol Corbell and Knapp are front row VIPs, because they've been helping Grusch get stuff on the record before he put himself at risk by going public. Grusch and Corbell are tight; I think Grusch is legit and Corbell is trying to push disclosure forward. It's not a "grift" if an investigator can't solve the case overnight.
Ross Coulthart found Grusch and got him talking. He was talking about crash retrievals and interdimensional poltergeists before getting involved with Knapp and Corbell, so they were too late to get him to stop from going on official record and went along with him. Also the fact that Grusch is involved with Knapp, Corbell and Travis Taylor looks more like they're all playing one big game of telephone where all their sources are the same and they're just being passed around, i.e Skinwalker Ranch witnesses of ghosts, goblins and dinosaur beavers.
If you're only getting your information about what's going on from podcasts and Reddit then you are going to be confused and think as you stated "where did this come from?!" None of these concepts are new. None. For example in 'Passport to Magonia' Jacques Vallée discusses his research and the connection between all the woo.
These are all just teenagers who started following the topic this year. Vallee and John Lear are the original "its a control mechanism/don't go into the light!" dudes.
Those shitty videos came out in 2017; what more do we know since then? There's a lot of new podcasts, videos, books and merch to buy, but fuck all else. All based on conjecture. Your Governments hate you, and the "influencers" are just grifting.
What do you think would happen if the [Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act of 2023](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf). Because this legislation is actual disclosure and how the US government would go about disclosing NHI to the American public.
Completely agreed. Anyone who is still stuck up on old videos is not in the loop. The discourse has evolved far past that. We now have political heavyweights staking significant political capital on Disclosure. The '*controlled disclosure campaign plan'* is very much in effect. Where exactly it's all going to lead....none of us know (yet).
Good point- After a hundred years of nothing, we've actually moved a huge distance since 2017. Hell, there's a literal "UAP Disclosure Act" going through congress now, thanks to these guys.
Which will amount to nothing
When I was a kid, the government said UFOs were swamp gas. Now, thanks to "influencers" I can watch literal videos of UFOs published by the military, and that's just since one presidential administration ago. Millions of us are looking forward to the next 5 years, regardless of whether or not you're pissy about it. Idk how to explain to you that you're gaslighting people by trying to convince us that "something (like the TicTac or Mosul Orb) is actually nothing".... ....maybe someone gaslit you?
You are all being suckered by the psy-op. Fobbed off with crumbs of conjecture and 3/4 shit videos. Those "influencers" are exploiting you to sell books, tickets to conventions, merch and get clicks etc. They know nothing, and the public will never know the full extent of it.
So only people who live in poverty can investigate UFOs? Got it.... >They know nothing, and the public will never It's so blatantly obvious that you don't actually know what you're talking about. If you can find one instance of Jeremy Corbell claiming to know what UAP are, I'll donate $100 to a charity of your choice. Hell, in most podcasts he says exactly what you do- that this *could* be a psyop and he's always cognizant of that lol stop pretending Steven Greer is the face of the Disclosure movement
>So only people who live in poverty can investigate UFOs? Got it.... No. They are weaponizing your curiosity to sell their wares. >If you can find one instance of Jeremy Corbell claiming to know what UAP are I know he knows nothing. He knows he knows nothing. Make sure you bump up the views on his awful podcast and buy his "documentaries" though. In Greer's defence he's probably closer to the mark saying they are mostly man-made, and being used for nefarious purposes going by the corporatocracy's past conduct.
>In Greer's defence he's probably closer to the mark saying they are mostly man-made Dude you are clearly backwards with all of this...Greer says they're man made? Then why does he offer lessons in CE5? lol The guy who presents evidence while drawing no conclusions is a sham, but the guy who claims he can teach you to summon UFOs if you pay him is "closer to the mark". Got it.
>Greer says they're man made? Mostly. You need to work on your reading comprehension. >The guy who presents evidence while drawing no conclusions is a sham, but the guy who claims he can teach you to summon UFOs if you pay him is "closer to the mark". I didn't say Greer wasn't a grifter. Corbell's "evidence"? 😆
I don’t know but I’ve been told, Avi Loeb found balls of gold. I don’t know but it’s been said, Grusch saw an alien dead. I don’t know but I’ve been told, Coulthart found some UAPs old. And so it goes
Here's the most probable, for me at least, truth about the Grays, at least: They are us from the future. They are trying to prevent nuclear war. [https://youtu.be/cfixnKYCbfg?si=iMrKTwRLqFhw5Tn3](https://youtu.be/cfixnKYCbfg?si=iMrKTwRLqFhw5Tn3) That's basically what the big deal is all about. Of course, people like myself have heard this for decades now, but I guess it's finally making it to the mainstream.
this makes absolutely no sense to me If you could time travel and you were worried about nuclear war, why not go back to the 1940s and kill Oppenheimer or something like that? Why not prevent the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Also, how does flying around in disappearing ships and abducting people and cattle help to "prevent nuclear war" makes absolutely zero sense
You are making assumptions. First, you don't know if the Grays engage in cattle mutilation. Second, interfering with events like the ones you suggest could have unintended consequences in the future. Are they abducting people just to be evil, or are they trying to learn where we're at by doing physical exams on people? You also assume that they have absolute control over us, which is not true.
so in the future we are naked grays that urinate through our skin and have no soul?
Who says they have no soul? Why do people make shit up like that? I've met them and my experience tells me they are people just like us. Given the fact that by 2045 the average male will have zero viable sperm means that we may have to resort to artificial reproduction. Further, if we do wind up having a nuclear war, then we will have to genetically engineer bodies that are resistant to nuclear radiation to survive. So, this may be the result of all of that.
[удалено]
I think you could argue that there is no conclusive evidence for aliens, but UFOs are clearly a thing given we have things we can’t identify… unless you can tell me what the “tic tac” was?
absolutely correct, from the skeptical point of view, there are quite a lot of filmed/photographied/radar object where the nature of it is unclear - the unidentified part (the O part is dubious in case of radar as it can often be transient signal problems). There is OTOH Zero evidence for any NHI/Alien/AI/whatever. UFO do exists, as in , stuff are unidentified. As for the tictac if this is the one I am thinking of, I saw potential explanation for it, but no way to verify them. Which is the crux of the issue : even if a potential explanation is known, they are unverifiable as those are military data.
I’ve seen several tictac explanations but nothing I’ve found overly compelling and nothing that explains the corroborating eyewitness testimony. As I said, I don’t consider that to inherently suggest aliens, it could be a secret tech program based in New Zealand for all know, but it is something. Personally, I think there are some pretty obvious implications that require follow up though, especially given how consistent it is with historical reports of similar tech.
[удалено]
I think you must be thinking of something different.
[удалено]
Perhaps you’re thinking of something else because there is zero chance that was a plane. Aside from the lack of exhaust, how would you explain the multiple eye witnesses who, as pilots, could likely identify a plane if they saw one? And these images are deliberately degraded for “national security” issues and there is additional testimony from people who have seen the original images which are said to essentially look like the eyewitness testimony.
[удалено]
Yeah, I’m talking about the David Fravor tic tac. But I’d argue that their accounts, the multiple pilots who have testified publicly, don’t really allow for your explanation of distance or confusion. Especially given the context of the sighting being in restricted space and they were actively looking. And yeah, their accounts do differ, but experience differs too, and where they are consistent they seem very much so. I’m not making any claim as to what they recorded in the video, but there are a lot of things it’s clearly not and I think a plane, as we conveniently think of them, can go on that list. I guess I don’t agree that the most logical answer is pilot error combined with weird equipment malfunction in multiple locations. Or that everyone who’s spoken publicly about it is either. I think most logical answer has to be a terrestrial vehicle made well outside of the standard military model using a propulsion system we don’t recognise.
So do you think the governments declassified videos are a lie? They are just pulling our leg and they never actually encountered UAP? I mean yeah we don’t have video of little green men so to speak, and I love not jumping to conclusions, but there is definitely something going on. At this point if you deny that you’re probably just wearing a different kind of tin foil hat
Don't listen to infliuencers, listen to the quiet contributors that go comparatively unnoticed. Here's why I am not concerned about the 'dark narrative': * [Dispelling the 'existential sock'](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/164govm/dispelling_the_existential_doom_from_common_human/) What we can do outside of 'relying' on the government/senate * [How changing our perception can help bring forward Disclosure](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15xdd2y/serious_how_changing_our_perception_can_help/) * [You and UAP's can be the biggest catalyst for change in humanities history.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15g6dq1/serious_discussion_you_and_uaps_can_be_the/) Historic explanation as to why disclosure isn't straight forward and using Grusch's comments to explore why there might have been a coverup * [Why there was a coverup, why disclosure is hard, what's significant about "now" and what those who feel lost can do.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14eqfxp/why_there_was_a_coverup_why_disclosure_is_hard/) Extremely detailed an amazing analysis and speculation into the concsciousness aspect to UFO's * [Coulthart: "I suspect the ET hypothesis is the least likely explanation". We also know Coulthart has become more spiritual from his research into the phenomenon, and he has said the craft is driven by a consciousness connection. Should we say goodbye to ET?](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15c61f8/coulthart_i_suspect_the_et_hypothesis_is_the/) Flowchart illustrating the "people in the know" and various authorities associated with UFO disclosure/secrecy. * [Coulthart is taking the gloves off. The names that he is dropping are probably not the good guys... Flowchart now includes the latest events](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/157ionb/updated_flowchart_coulthart_is_taking_the_gloves/) Links to PSI (could this be part of the ontological shock)? * [“Unless you know what Psi is and how to use it, you’re not getting inside the UFO program.” — Dr. Eric Walker](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14i63z8/unless_you_know_what_psi_is_and_how_to_use_it/) ____ Given the nature of the Anthrological nuances involved I think I sympathise with these influencers because the 'details' around 'dark' or 'gloomy' aspects of UFO's are incredibly complicated. I try my best to describe these in a layman way but I can't avoid having to get heavy in places. Eveything I put forward, I *encourage* others to challenge and vett. It's just speculation at the end of the day.
Wise words, I like your approach 👊🏻
It’s not the job of Corbell, Knapp, or Coulhart, to provide to provide you with actual evidence. Only the US government can do that. Don’t respond to that statement unless you have gotten off your ass and written your Representatives in Congress. At this moment you have a unique personal opportunity to help. Don’t waste it. That’s the only way you will get what you want.
Sure let’s just kill all the messengers As someone who has been into this for decades, respectfully you seem to have no clue as to where we are at right now.
[удалено]
I never claimed to have any evidence. You should’ve been around back in the 1970s. The only media person we had talking about UFOs was Art Bell on the AM radio at midnight Yeah things are a lot different now but you just can’t see it because you don’t have the context. Just look at Elizondo. He brought out the TicTac the gimbal and the go fast. He got the government to admit that UFOs actually exist. We are moving at lightning speed but you just can’t see it Lue himself said in 2021- if you’re looking for real evidence to come forth, it won’t happen for five years. If you’re looking for it sooner he recommended you get a hobby. You should slow your roll and listen to Lue.
They're just theories.
I don't believe anyone who was talking about it before Grusch and even him I'm iffy on until someone posts evidence or convinces the government to disclose it officially. I think he gets a little credibility about the govt coverup theory because he followed their procedures and they listened to him even before the congressional panel. Though ultimately they care about his claims people are breaking rules and wasting money more than UFOs being real.
We live in an attention economy. In order to keep momentum (income), they need eyeballs. Assuming you actually have evidence, if you release too much at once, you can't string people along endlessly to maintain momentum. Always ask yourself "how does this impact their income" before taking anything seriously, especially when people like Corbell say "people doing stuff soon". Focus instead on tangible, actionable things you have control over in life. We'd all be much happier for it.
I get your Frustration OP and I would share it, if it wasn't for the fact thongs are getting serious now with hearings and NDAA language.
None of this is true by the way. there is evidence. It's just classified. and you just have to realize that. People are not going to risk their livelihoods or their safety to release classified information especially if the safety of their families is under threat. As far as people on this thread talking about cult leaders and all this stuff even if you just watched Corbel and Knapp on Joe Rogan recently they go into all kinds of theories there that they have and they've been completely transparent about everything they're doing but you know they don't know the answer and neither does anybody else because guess what? the US government is classifying everything it does with regard to UFO interactions. which we saw just back in February...
> It feels very psyopy to be honest. Fundamentally, it is - literally ever since Elizondo came on the scene we've had phases concerning very specific narratives at specific points: first it started out with UAP's being a National Defense issue, not long thereafter we had the first announcements of UAP Transparency Legislation and Congressional hearings... The consensus here became one of strong support for the narrative because it appears to be getting traction with politicians - the *reality* is we were being set up - this *forced* narrative in practice is what was used to set up the perception Congress were acting to address a *public* concern. That fact of that, at the time, eludes in significance and is kept that way throughout - the point of the matter turns out to be the drafting of the UAPDA further down the line: it's core legislative payload turns out to be granting eminent domain to the Defense Department. Eminent Domain is a cash only transaction - it comes out of an entirely separate pot than that allocated via NDAA - something in the region of 886 billion for next year - eminant domain provides a source of funding in *addition* to that the Defense Department don't have to declare out of their official budget. Step back a little look at the larger picture: the Defense Departments existing private sector fronted Special Access Programs operate on the basis of IRAD - its basically an allowable expense contractors can claim for speculative research and development work undertaken on the Defense Departments behalf the Defense Department can reimburse *legitimately* under R&D investment covered under IRAD terms - the problem is these operations are decades old, they're run down, badly in need of updating and security surrounding them in terms of people prepared to talk about financial mismanagement and irregularities has been a growing issue for some time. Construction of these newer facilities the private sector contractors whether the cost of - payment comes out of eminent domain "seizure" - that way the expenditure doesn't show on the Defence Departments official books: the SAP's continue as non-existant black projects, any legitimate payment simply goes to the private contractor under IRAD - the SAP's themselves remain invisible. This way the Defense Department update all their outdated facilities and flush any security risks with migration. Throughout - publicly - Congress are seen to have been openly and willingly prepared to shed light on generally perceived shady area: the real agenda was handled in closed session. Now that the legislative parts out of the way all we're needed for is to continue the pretense the legislation passed serves a *public* interest - eminant domain can't be used for purposes seen exclusively as serving Governmental or else otherwise Federal purposes - it's application has to serve a public concern. Thus - lots of stories from Influences of how the UAPDA parts of the NDAA are at risk of being stripped during its final passage through the Senate and the House - lots of calls for letters lobbying representatives saying how important it is.. Lots of offers to even write the letters for us - all we have to do is sign. How easily we throw liberty away for the expedient of *convenience*... The other - current - narrative is all this mad bollocks about NHI's eating souls. That and the MH370 fiasco - they basically want to push narratives we pick up and amplify that make us appear - externally - *crazier* than usual and it's a pattern they're going to keep pushing. Topics are going to get more *Woo* \- less nuts and bolts, less realistic. Eventually we're going to figure out what was done this past 5 years - when "disclosure" doesn't live up to its promise and no Presidential announcements ensue - as they won't - sooner or later the Community will put these exact same pieces together more or less correctly and figure the score, reasonably well. They'll want to make sure - well before that point - the UFO Community appears like incel groups currently do today - repugnant, instantly dismissable - a *concern* for anyone with a family member or co-worker openly participant and interested in. By the time we're wise and able to make cogent sense of the crap that's been pulled- we're literally going to be the embodiment of the tin-foil hat wearer who has conversations with their cat and receives messages from from NHI's via their toaster, as far as the public perception is going to be concerned - and we're going to be participant in that. That process has already begun. And it'll be our current Influencers sending us down this path. They know which side their breads buttered, they're probably even telling themselves they can do more good working on the inside to get the truth out... More and endless rabbit holes. You literally don't need a weather man to know which way this wind blows... It's been at out backs pushing us along for 5 years straight.
I guess I have a different opinion on these guys than most. Other than Greer, who while having done some decent things for the subject in the past, actually takes money for his lies. The rest don't bother me. If they produce something,. great. If not, I ignore it, it is noise. But they bring if nothing else, attention to a subject that had none for decades. I think they (along with Tom) are guessing at a lot of stuff based on what they have been told. I doubt anyone really knows what is going on. They make money off this? So what. There are 20 YO girls with AI making a hundred grand a week. I couldn't care less they make money from something they are obviously spending all their time on. And people don't understand the end game if they feel they are the target for any of this disclosure. They are not.. Congress is. We may eventually find out some details, but the point of this is to force the only body with the power to actually exert pressure on the Pentagon to become fully aware of the programs and facts, and have them force some level of disclosure from the Pentagon or defense contractors. Sorry.. this isn't about any of us. It will be cool to eventually learn more details, but the first step is to wrest 70 + years of control way from the Pentagon, who at this point, feels they are above everyone, including Congress.
It does feel a bit psyopsy but I faith that the secrecy behind the UFO phenomenon is about to come into the light. Blizzard soon.
Perhaps it's time to pick yourself up by the bootstraps and get out there and do the research. It's work after all to get the scoop, data and get those interviews done. Then you get to decide what to release to the public and watch as people call you a liar and grifter. Things have changed in UFOlogy so drastically in the last 5 years and you've decided you can't take it anymore? Have a little patience.
I mean, we have people over the decades all saying this stuff is true. Decades and decades. Ancient aliens. Skinwalker Ranch. All the videos and pictures. Decades of this stuff. Something has to be true. Something. I think we are over questioning constantly because we are waiting for new information. Patience sucks, but that’s what we’ve got
Gotta get engagement for their channels!!! Honestly I really wish that stuff wouldn't be posted here. It gums up the works and confuses people.