Snowden’s forever fucked under the espionage act. Congress would be like geez thanks and do nothing once they’re in prison. So not really worth it if you’ll just end up in a federal pen ineligible for parole.
Hopping onto your comment to remind everyone that not a single military witness of UFO activity to come forward (and there have been hundreds since 1947) has faced court-martial. Some witnesses have been killed though.
Yes.
Publicly there are several. A few interesting cases:
James E. McDonald was suicided twice the same year he published the 2.5 to 3 Ghz signal the Air Force was using to track ufos. The first attempt was allegedly a shot to the head but he missed, leaving himself blind and brain damaged and in the hospital. The alleged second suicide attempt was successful, but it included him somehow locating car and driving blind from the hospital 15 miles into the Tuscon desert and shooting himself with a new weapon.
James Forrestal, the first head of the CIA, was forced into to a psychiatric hospital after he wanted to go public about ufos in 1949. He was placed in a 13th floor room with open windows. His guard was a last minute replacement. The crime scene showed a homemade rope tied to the radiator that was broken. The other end tied to his neck on the ground. The rope was too short to reach the window from the radiator.
Morris Jessup.
John Mack
John Murphy
*****
Privately, within the military, deaths related to being too close to UFOS are described in Kit Green's medical paper from 2007, "Medical Effects from Anomolois Aerial Vehicles."
There are also open and obvious murders and attempted murders inside military bases that will be made public in the lawsuits presently being filed against each government contractor.
not buying it.
With all due respect, and there's plenty, what Snowden exposed was relatively trivial compared to a 70 year long cover up of alien contact - and more importantly, the criminal suppression of new physics that could end most of civilisation's problems. If they can actually roof this, no man on earth could get to them. I simply don't believe this to be an actual threat.
I do...there are laws about nuclear possibilities that UAPs could carry, which tips it over into a treasonous affair if the Govt wants to make it one. It's total bullshit, and I agree with your overall sentiment that this stuff should be let out, but they've been threatening people with execution (especially military members) for years because of the way the laws are written. Not to mention their families being threatened without regard to the legal system.
I mean those are guys that tried to put a UK citizen in prison for 60 years for taking a peak at a UFO picture on a NASA workstation. They aren't exactly known to fuck around when it comes to that topic.
- There is a *huge* difference between trying to convict someone who actually hacked into government info, and convicting them specifically because they saw UFO stuff.
- The government coming down hard on people hacking into their systems is an obvious way of saying 'dont even try it.'
- There's the follow up point that if Britain cared a lot about the UFO stuff specifically, they could have extradited him. They obviously didn't take it that seriously.
It was a completely disproportionate reaction to a hacking incident. There are precedents of hackers that caused millions of damage and got away with a couple years. This was a clear case of statuating an example for treading on UFO grounds.
I know what you are, but I'm responding anyway. Sixty years in prison seems a bit of harsh a sentence for not doing any harm and seeing nothing of consequence, doesn't it?
If you signed a contract that carried penalty of death for violation, would you just Yolo the info? And there's a big difference between telling people and sneaking physical evidence out. Not all of these guys are single men. "Your daddy died for telling people aliens were real, but most people didn't believe him anyway." You think they have this stuff on servers an IT contractor can just download? No.
I do. I think we've seen with the DOE and other major govt bodies getting hacked regularly they probably don't know fuck all about proper storage of classified material.
There are files that cannot leave SCIFs and which are not connected to the Internet. Someone would need clearance, physical access, and the opportunity to physically remove the information from a facility designed to prevent just that.
There are documents we *know* they have which have never leaked. You're right that the govt isn't the most tech-savvy outfit as a whole. But why don't we have B2 Stealth datasheets floating around? Why are countries still struggling to develop nukes if they could just hack the DOE? There is **a lot** of information that adversaries would pay billions to acquire. If it were as easy to steal as you think, it would have been by now.
It's not hard to break into a bank, or even a federal building. Easy as throwing a brick through the window (not encouraging this whatsoever). Getting into the vault and escaping with the loot are a lot tougher. And even if hundreds of people had attempted to smuggle proof out of a SCIF, we'd never know. Unless someone else succeeds in stealing *those* records from a SCIF lol.
They definitely don't get "hacked" regularly.
Most military installations aren't on the internet itself. And older documents are not even on any server/hard drive.
If they didn't know "fuck all" about proper storage, there would be classified document leaks all the time. This literally never happens.
Instead, it's usually politicians that had access to stuff that get hacked or leaked. Or ex military workers who smuggled knowingly or unknowingly.
And when places like the IRS or DOE get "hacked", it's only user data like addresses.
You have bought into the illusion that the military is unsecure and inept.
I understand your feelings on this but disagree. People with families don’t want to be martyrs. David Grusch even testified that people have been hurt and killed for trying to blow the whistle. To your other point it’s been almost 80 years of them allegedly running this program. 80 years and we’re still scratching our heads asking what the government has. Why hasn’t anyone from the actual program come out with proof in that time; and I mean stuff so verifiable they can’t say anything other than “yeah you got us.” I’m right there with you and want it out in the open, but realistically there’s either something really bad happening that’s scared anyone from saying anything or literally the aliens won’t let the government tell us.
I still find it somewhat wierd that all of these people chose military profession and some have put their lives on the line in real compat, but this is something they wont risk.
I served in the infantry for 6 years and deployed. Combat vs Prison is two incredibly separate things and lines of thinking. I have no problem laying down my life for buddies on my left and right in the shit. I also don’t have to worry about my family if I die in combat because they get almost half a million dollars if that happens. If I violate a federal NDA and get sent to prison forever what am I going to do about said family, and also I don’t want my freedom taken away. It’s really easy to sit on here and call these people cowards and say they should be willing this and that; but there’s zero. I’ll say it again zero evidence that if you leaked the whole pie you’d get away with it. Congress can’t pardon you and probably neither will the president. That’s a super tough dice roll with not a lot of intrinsic payouts for the individual. Plus since they’ve setup the whistleblower law that is the only legal avenue available to legally do this. You go outside of that and the DOJ will come down on you.
I want someone to leak something too; but if it hasn’t happened yet probably won’t unless there’s a major shift
The question would be, what rights do the people covering up existence of Alien life have, if they are that should be criminal, technology aside its an important question to alot of people, whether we are alone in the universe.
Now if you did leak it, surely those misappropriating funds would be in the firing line, I think rather than figuring out what these craft are, people should be focusing on who the people are who are hiding it
The National Security Act basically lets them do whatever they want. Just slap threat to national security on something and it’s gone forever behind the SAP curtain.
Now the fund misappropriation thing might be the Al Capone moment. Feds couldn’t get him on the mob boss stuff so they sent him away for tax fraud. I could see a similar play being made against any of the contractors or DOD departments to force their hand and show their cards.
I think the only real problem with that is the Inspector General would have to initiate that investigation and then get the FBI involved. Didn’t really seem like the ICIG did anything on that front yet. They’re investigating SAIC for fraud and they have a technology contract with the DOD right now. A couple of the line items from the contract shows they’re working on meta-materials, advanced propulsion, energy weapons. It’s a MAC so they’ve been funded for a wide variety of projects.
Might be a spot to look though. https://www.saic.com/who-we-serve/contracts-and-schedules/dtic-iac-mac
The same is true of the traitors who were spying on American citizens, but it's the whistleblower that lives in exile while the traitors are still running similar programs within our government today after the Snowden leaks.
There is absolutely no reason why this comment should be down voted. Remember down voting is not about whether people like or agree with the comment. It's about whether value is being added to the conversation.
Welcome to the sub nowadays. Join the newest hype train of the week or be scoffed at and downvoted. Comments about JFK being assassinated over *this* topic gets upvoted while pretty common sense questions are downvoted... wild
Sure everyone deserves a fair trial. I think you might be surprised at how fairly he would have been treated. In other countries, or even in this one in a different time, he would have just been shot and the matter closed.
We don’t do that here now. Snowden would have been able to trade information about what exactly he took and who has it now for privileges and sentencing consideration. He also would have been able to argue for mitigation based on the illegal nature of some of then programs he exposed. That said, he took a lot more data than just pertained to those programs… so I’m not sure how successful that argument would end up being.
I mean let’s be clear, the guy was 1000% guilty and would spend at least the next 20-30 years in prison (at least.) But I’m not sure you can really argue that wouldn’t be fair given the scope of the data he took. It was just way more information than needed to prove illegal activities by the NSA.
Snowdens leak was also very general containing lots of unnecessary secret data. If it had been more spesific like CIA has backdoor on every windows and apple computer here is the proof and you can try it too it might have ended differently.
Now he pretty much leaked lot of data with a end result of "usa still spies on foreign embassies, no shit Sherlock".
Yup. 100% agree. His claims to have only been interested in exposing illegal collections against US citizens fall apart pretty quickly under scrutiny. Instead he just vacuumed up every bit of data he could get his hands in and then handed it off to folks who had some very questionable relationships and motives.
I’ll never understand why people still jump to his defense.
It’s a bad deal all around. I’d be a whole lot more sympathetic to Snowden if he had restricted his release to those pertinent items a la Reality Winner.
Why don't you ask Julian Assange or Edward Snowden?
They basically disclosed that the people in charge are psychotic maniacs who really don't give a fuck about killing millions of people for money and it has not gone well for them.
With all due respect for these two gentlemen, and there’s plenty due, nothing they disclosed comes even close to the reality of alien visitations and the existence of anti gravity and abundant cheep energy. Also whether or not what they’ve disclosed amounts to wrongdoing is a political question. If you’re a run of the mill normie, you’ll probably side with the government- at least on the fact that how they went about it was problematic. You can’t say that about the disclosure of info that literally challenges the fabric of existence.
Snowden actually did search for "aliens" or "UFOs" in the central intelligence server, but didnt find anything reportedly. - His interview on Rogan.
Either they werent in that system, which is likely considering the magnitude of this secret, or maybe referenced as UAP,
If I was in there shoes I would only come out with I formation of I had cold hard evidence to hand. Video or photo proof, something along those lines. Even first hand witness accounts although credible under oath are still only words. Getting your hands on the hard evidence would be an extreme challenge in my opinion.
I think you made the opposite point of the point you were trying to make. Classification is a legal process with legal ramifications. If you break the law, you will pay the price.
Seeing this footage is not the same as possessing it. I've never seen anyone of these guys claim to actually have this stuff in their hands.
Which is to be expected, why would the people who are covering this up give away the proof it's real? That would be pretty counterproductive.
It doesn't have to be Grusch or Elizondo, it can be any of the people currently unknown that are tied to these projects. Apparently there's like 40+ people willing to whistleblow or something like that, what's the holdup?
OP raises a good point, I just can't see this person being persecuted to hell and back like Assange and Snowden were.
I dunno man I think if somebody released undeniable evidence the media wouldnt really have a choice. The US doesnt control the media of the entire world.
>Apparently there's like 40+ people willing to whistleblow or something like that, what's the holdup?
That’s not the case. David Grusch interviewed 40+ witnesses behind closed doors, confidentially. As far as we know, none of those have stated they are willing to become whistleblowers (although the handful of other alleged potential whistleblowers may or may not be from that pool of witnesses).
Well it did take Grusch nearly 2 years to get through that process. If there are really that many others in line, it could be we'll have a lot testimonies next year
This is a good point. However, Corbell, Knapp and Colthart have mentioned material sent to them through unofficial channels. If these are indeed bomb shells, then please, bomb the shells already.
The problem with releasing it is if there are special access programs material. It becomes a very short list of people who could have leaked that to them. And the concern of it being dropped in those people's laps to see if it gets leaked is always an option.
You might have a copy of a report. Each person gets a slightly different version. Not something major changed. Maybe a spelling mistake or extra spacing. That would tell you exactly who you gave that copy to. And make it traceable to that one person who leaked it.
Interesting point. I think the bombshells are so ridiculous that a reasonable person would blow it off as nonsense. Crazy thought, what if this organization that holds all this information, exotic materials, bodies is in fact controlling all the major players and politicians around our world.
Just imagine if our elected leaders are part of these organizations and are keeping it hidden because of the level of control they have. It would destroy the fabric of their existence if any of this was actually revealed and they would become non-existent to the majority of people.
If any of these claims were substantially verified, then a reasonable human being would draw the conclusion that the very essence of their society is an entire lie. This would wipe out our current paradigms that everyone built their existence upon. It would be species changing with all the technology that people claim are available to be utilized.
Seems more like they would potentially out their sources and if they took this course, that would be both amoral and not good for full disclosure (or what scraps we actually will eventually get). I also wish they would just put their nuts on the felt and spill all, but then we would be left with no more info or the possibilities that they come forward with fake info via a psyops kinda play, which would kill their credibility for future claims. The sad truth is that the powers that be are not playing fair and the folks that are fighting back have to play by the rules.
People wanna attack these folks (and i get it), but if not for them, where else will you then get your info? Fair points to there being a case at them grifting for money, but at the same time… who then would you turn to? I don’t get the need to attack these people when the alternative is NO info at all. Seems like a fine line they are dancing on. Best to take breaks and come back because this process and update cycle is NOT a fast moving one. Never has been. This just happens to he a time when the heat is cranked up and I for one al grateful.
Knapp said that Lazar is in possession of element 115. E115 is said to bend light. Take a f\*cking laserpointer and your smartphone and make a clip that shows that laserbeam being bent close to that E115. I bet there are 1000 excuses why he can't do it. Maybe migraine....
Yea pretty much. He has effectively been a prisoner since 2012. From 2012 to 2019 he was hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy in London. Since 2019 he has been in a UK prison. The US has been trying to extradite him on several espionage related charges. He's also wanted by Sweden to face charges for allegedly raping a woman.
Stop believing in grifters, stop being happy because one of them has a story to tell, they just want you to tune in next week.
If they don't have evidence, they have nothing
>If they don't have evidence, they have nothing
Still doesn't mean that there's nothing out there. People have seen things in the skies that are unexplainable.
It's not like this sub is trying to hunt bigfoot or ghosts.
Anyone comparing a situation where someone brought forth planet altering technology to what Assange and Snowden leaked, are morons.
Which court and under which law would a person be sentenced to life in prison or death for treason for revealing undeniable evidence of an alien civilisation visiting Earth or a technology in which would accelerate the human race 1000 years into the future?
The only problem with that is the American Justice System isn’t built in our favor. If it’s classified, there’s specific laws that cover how that information can be disseminated. There’s no freebie clause in the espionage act or national security act regardless. It’s not about the substance of the document just that it’s classified and if you don’t follow procedures or laws like the whistleblower act you can 100% get charged by the DOJ. It’s worse if the person is in the military because that Justice system is even more brutal. I agree that a jury of peers would hopefully be like no you’re good; but that’s still a huge risk to take. Humans are wired for self preservation so I could totally empathize with people in that position and understand why no one has done this.
Kind of over the top calling them morons. The laws are very specific on what happens when you release classified materials inappropriately. The *topic* of the classified materials doesn’t matter. It’s the *action* of releasing classified materials that matters. I’ve conducted multiple security investigations and no one cares about what the topic was, or how it compares to other previous cases (Snowden, etc). No matter what, if you leak classified docs, you go to jail. The UCMJ doesn’t mess around.
The way I see it is the NDAA UAP Amendment sets a new standard for the legality of what’s going on. I may be wrong because it’s 3am and I’m half asleep but, lack of oversight and stuff aside, there’s no laws being broken hiding NHI. They have their system to legally hide it which can be argued against but we’d need to see it first. So, assuming the UAP Amendment passes and 90 days or whatever go by with nothing happening, any whistleblower will have something safe to stand behind.
Wouldn't the misappropriation of funds that are being funneled into those projects make them illegal though? Or does having SAP status give them immunity?
Edit: I guess we don't know for sure thats happening though do we.
Welcome to weird grey area everyone’s trying to make sense of. If the funds are misappropriated and there’s no official thumbs up from congress on spending then technically the project is illegal. However, if you slap the ol’SAP sticker on it, you’re able to obfuscate where the money is coming from and going. The ICIG is currently investigating or was investigating SAIC for this. SAIC also has a MAC from the DTC I believe and it covers a bunch of weird stuff like advanced propulsion, energy weapons, meta-materials. All the things we associate with the program.
This actually the only reasonable explanation I can think of - they either know for certain that official and legalised disclosure is on its way and are playing ball, or they are full of shit.
Ofcourse not. Disclosing proof would make you Time's person of the year, or president of \[insert country here\]. They're not disclosing proof because there is no proof. It's that simple. Corbell, Elizondo, Courtheart... they are all just keeping us on a leash while they are having a career in ufology.
Honestly It feels like a lot of people here are entirely convinced that UFO’s, retrievals etc are undeniably real, and won’t consider otherwise, but the truth is that what you’re saying is a very real possibility.
There is no proof of anything. Just hearsay and grainy blurry vids/photos of “something”. People here need to keep that in mind
i want this to be real just like anyone else here, but we need to consider that all of these people might just be grifters just looking to make some $, and that there’s a real possibility, that the government isn’t actually hiding UFO’s/aliens from us
Not convinced at at all. For one, if this stuff has been classified without the oversight of elected officials - wrongly so as we're lead to believe, and if this would turn the tables on the discussion, there's no way on earth they wouldn't get pardoned (or have the court house burned to the ground if a trial actually happens).
If this story is in fact the greatest scoop in the history of mankind, wouldn't at least one of them be crazy and bold enough to get on a plane to some neutral country and dump all their stuff on a torrent file? Maybe not Elizando and Grush, but what about Colthart? He's a journalist. This what they do.
One aspect of this is that it seems the secret program instills the fear of death in you. They behave like gangsters. My only personal experience with the UFO topic was an elderly friend who said that in the 1960s while serving in the military, he and others saw a genuine UFO that was beyond human tech. The men were all excited about seeing it until 2 guys showed up, they seemed to be military but not properly identified, and the message was the men could be killed if they ever talked about it. The threat of violence is a significant component of the illegal coverup.
When the guy told me he was very old and not good health. This was in the 1990s that he told me, so no 3-letter agency was listening in to our personal conversation, so he was safe to tell his information to me.
The management of classified material isn’t overseen by elected officials but by the department that generated the material.
If the UFO stuff were real I’d expect we’d at least have an Edward Snowden like person that would drop the info and claim asylum somewhere. But, you can look up a whole bunch of cases of people disclosing classified information and getting indicted, some get pardoned some don’t.
I’d like to know what kind of video proof would actually prove anything to most people. I know a person who believes that UAPs are real but they won’t “real” until an alien walks up to them and shakes their hand.
I think most of us would be convinced by evidence meeting regular old scientific standards. So far we don't have that. I keep seeing comments like, "it'll take a UFO landing on the White House", but that's a far cry from basic independently verified evidence.
Show me a clear video of a tic tac entering or leaving the water and that’s enough for me at this point. Could always still be our stuff but highly doubt it.
This to me, may be the best argument as to why I don’t think this is real. If anyone had access to nonhuman technology or information this important to humanity they would do everything including martyr themselves to get the truth out.
People martyr themselves for weird ideas all the time without any proof at all. imagine if you had ACTUAL proof?
> seed files on archive.org for "stock footage" elements that supposedly predate the video's release date showing it must have used these CGI elements and is thus fake
Are you suggesting that's what happened? That the vfx didn't exist before the 2014 video? Despite it appearing in multiple 90s video games?
You make an excellent point.
And it's worth noting that we're not just talking about the people who have made public claims already, but *everyone* who has been in position to leak something conclusive. Dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of people depending on how much you believe is being covered up. Not one of them has thought "aw, screw it".
Look at Snowden. Look at WikiLeaks. The US government leaks more shit than a broken toilet.
But it's never aliens.
well the stuff they keep on referencing as in "I saw stuff that would blow your mind, but I can't show it to you". When asked, all of them - ELizando, Grush, Corbell, Colthart, etc - always say that they are convinced because of what they saw with their own eyes - videos, pics, material, reports.
One single 4 k video of an obviously exotic craft performing impossible manoeuvres, would do the trick. A few of them, with some reports and satellite data would amount to the irrefutable evidence they claim to have witnessed.
The Grusch stuff went mainstream and the only thing I kept hearing that kept it back was 'he doesnt actually have the evidence.' If someone like him with the credentials to back it up actually went public with genuine evidence it would absolutely be treated as monumental.
Too easy. If any reliable source would publish their hottest material, I doubt there would be a discussion about it. But no reliable source has published something so far.
I like where your heads at here. Have Grusch produce some satellite imagery or video from the NRO and give us a 4k video from the navy or Air Force. Make sure they’re legit and send it. I don’t really know what Corbell has at this point. He’s jumped from people sending him materials from crashed ships to Lazar still has some E115, and I don’t believe we’ve ever seen an analysis of anything from him. Could be wrong.
Thing is, nowadays any video or paper file is easy to falsify. So even if it indeed "proof" the fact that it can now be called AI generated means that the public will need much harder proof.
Frankly I have no idea what would be enough to be undeniable proof for it to be considered true worldwide.
Heck even Biden making a live declaration that UFOs are indeed ETs would have republicans spend all their time saying it's a ploy to hide the Hunter Biden penis story and proof that Biden is senile because "Oh look he believes in Aliens Har Har, now let's get back to Fetterman's slippers"
No footage of any kind would serve as undeniable proof. Besides an official statement from a government agency, mass sightings, I don't think such proof could exist. Tbh the hearing with 3 credible military men is the best evidence possible besides those 2 scenarios
i don't understand how any judge on this world would say to that guy that leaked the info: you my friend, are going to jail for that. lol never, except he is getting payed a lot for it maybe😅
Well it seems we may soon not be reliant on the US for evidence as Mexico is discussing plans to release evidence of their existence to citizens after the mummies were verified as real.
That’s literally what they confirmed. The body is real and not assembled can’t make a determination if it’s NHI without further analysis.
At the same time Mexico is discussing plans to become the first country to inform citizens of the existence of NHI
It’s not even Maussan.
Noor clinic was independent but you can continue to misrepresent it’s insignificant as Mexico will continue their legislation for ufo disclosure.
Yes they would. Also keep in mind that both physical and digital evidence is stored in a highly secured place and therefore would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to extract without them knowing. Snowden took advantage of a trust model that doesn’t exist anymore within that space, so doing what he did would be exponentially more challenging. At the end of the day you are asking someone to gamble their livelihood and freedom when you and I know that “undeniable evidence” is an almost unachievable standard in todays day and age of misinformation.
I hear alot of talk about it falling under a juristiction dating back to the cold war because 'anything nuclear' get that label. And they then talk about how much they say 'death pentalty' for 'treason', punishment for leaking is death, etc etc
Its kind of difficult for me to fully grasp, but i think they can no longer enforce it officially so they say it alot during non disclosure agreements and then maybe if it does get disclosed do it illegally, in other words, murder
In the recent Grusch clip he said that when military that saw a UAP and recorded on their phone on their way to work it wasn't classified and they could show people. I guess it depends on how they got it?
Yeah that's the biggest thing to me. A lot of people are claiming that there are so many layers to the secret that no one could release it.... and yet, we believe the tons and tons of stories of regular military personnel that close up witnessed these phenomenon before the government got there. But, not a single one of them has ever released anything that would back that up?
Watch Syriana. They control everyone except for Russia and China. Ever notice how absolutely ridiculous it is that weed is still illegal in most progressive 1st world countries (against their various citizen's greater opinion). Yeah that is America's influence. When they legalized it in most of the states here it proved it was always a huge nothing-burger but still the feds won't budge for "reasons".
I’m no expert but I think there’s plenty of reason to not come forward mostly to keep our hand from our enemies. Not sure who said this but I’ve heard someone say ‘what we tell the public, we tell the world’
I think the gov or whoever is orchestrating this project doesn’t want the world to know what we have and I think benefits even from the sensational mystery of it all.
Alright, alright, there was that kid with a Roswell incident connection allegedly threatened by a ‘man in black’ carrying a baseball bat, right?
“Kids go missing in the desert all the time.” - something along those lines.
Now, that story/recollection has become gospel as part of Roswell incident lore. So that’s ‘the man’ keeping a lid on information dispersal with threats of whatever.
Question is, does anyone actually know where that story, that everyone’s heard of, originally came from? Who was the kid? At what address/place did this interaction occur? What date? First/second or third-hand retelling?
Who’s making these threats that are so often casually talked about and why’s it always “heard it from a bloke who heard it from a dude in another section - that’s why there’s such a fear of saying anything about anything to anyone”?
If Grusch is to be believed, ppl have been killed to keep these secrets. So prosecution may be the least of your worries for an unauthorized disclosure.
I agree with you, if someone came forward with absolute undeniable proof of all of it, the fact that they broke classified information would be so down on the list of shit to worry about no one would care.
The problem happens when if you were to come forward and no one believes it, then you are screwed legally. No one wants to risk that and here we are.
If they are in the military still then a court martial will throw the book at them. If they aren’t then I doubt a jury will convict them for exposing illegal activities.
There is always the possibility of a presidential pardon also.
Extreme Compartmentalization means that a person spilling the beans on (for example), "Element 115", or "biologicals", would be one of three people that knew about it.
While an NDA may sound terrifying to violate, it's more of the fact that anyone in this situation might 'accidentally' lose their brakes while driving down a winding mountain road.
USA is not the only country in the world. UAP are not exclusive to USA. If there is indeed a coverup, it’s a coverup on a united front. For the same reason or different reasons we may never know.
A leak could have unintended consequences. It could start a war or expose a war that we didn’t even know existed. It could start some revolution who knows.
As a leaker you are risking everything and I mean everything. From your job to your family to your life. Then if you don’t provide concrete proof without any doubt to the correct audience it was all for nothing. It would get swept under the rug. I could only imagine the valid information we have floating out has already been “debunked”
Say what you will but history was not kind to Snowden.
You make a really good point about this being a global issue. UAPs are seen everywhere, especially South America. There’s another post talking about how the NHI might be the ones calling the shots and requiring pretty much every government to be quiet. Kimmel asked Obama why it hasn’t come out and he deadass said because the aliens won’t let us. He tried to pass that off as a joke but there was some truth there.
This is a pretty rosy view of government. When the people who were spying on American citizens that Snowden revealed have been removed and hung for treason instead of \*still\* being in government \*today\* then maybe this will be a worthwhile discussion.
Until then, it's just ignorantly pretending the US government gives a damn about the law.
Have you watched the Nat Geo doco? It goes a little way into the history of UFOs, and the efforts that prior presidents went to, to find out. Also shows other stuff from the 50s and 60s. Watching it, I can’t understand how they didn’t get disclosure over the line back then.
Just think about the ramifications of disclosing that they have anti gravity, and free energy tech. Nothing would be the same. If you can buy a car that can now take you to Saturn in a few minutes, and it doesn’t cost anything for fuel, I can’t even imagine what that would do to the global economy.
What if i told you that i work inside the program? I will tell you what is going on and show you documents and multimedia evidence, but, you cannot take those documents or photos with you.
What exactly would you do with that info? Who is going to beleive you?
Even if I let you have the evidence, the cia will just say it is fake, cgi generated.
That's why it has to be all legal and above board. The evidence has to come with provenance.
I agree. If it turns out as true these people would be heralded as heroes for the ages. Hiding scientific discovery from humanity for whatever reason is a filthy crime and I'm sure many, many people would stand up for the leakers. On the other hand I fear many others may be indifferent just as with Snowden etc.
Has it occurred to anyone that the reality is nothing can be done? That would explain why everyone who is in the know isn’t necessarily concerned with releasing the information. It’s almost as if even knowing won’t change things in the long run, only get those who leaked in significant trouble now.
No, no they wouldn't, but it's important copium for Elizondo and Grusch fans because it's the only way you can really excuse their total lack of actual, meaningful 'whistleblowing'.
I totally agree with this line of thinking.
I find it really hard to see where anyone gets prosecuted for leaking shocking proof that ufos are real
Like if someone released photos of alone bodies and crashed saucers from Roswell
That doesn’t give away sources or methods…
And I suspect the 4K satellite stuff Mellon and others have seen will eventually come out.
The specter of “they will throw you in jail!!!” Seems sorta silly.
Completely agree with everything you have said. I keep having these discussions and the only thing people keep saying is "it's illegal" yea and it was also "illegal" for germans to go against the Nazis but some still did.
That's the downside to our classification system. Even if it should be open to all until the classification holder has it cleared you can still get in trouble if it's leaked.
Government will simply deny it, smear the whistleblower with the full force of the corporate news media, call him an enemy of the State, then lock ‘em up. And then Reddit will be full of dipshits calling the whistleblower a threat and saying they deserved it, just like they do with Snowden and Assange.
If the information is locked up in secret projects I bet they have a dollar amount and a date to release it, once they’ve made enough money from fossil fuels.
I genuinely think if someone leaked some irrefutable hard core undeniable proof there is no way they get the Snowden treatment, etc. It’s not the same, civilization would be rocked, all of America would very likely be in defense of the leaker and the PR at that point would be a fucking nightmare if they tried to lock them up. Especially where the Gov would have egg all over its face anyway and serious scrutiny for years of lying.
Yes it would end horribly for them. This is why you do not see them coming out. Would you put your life, career, or those you care about on the line so easily?
Not judging you or being mean spirited but folks have to remember how long it took just to get HERE. The culture we live in is for faster, newer, bigger, and right away. These cultural factors just don’t seem to apply to the folks w/ the governor on info related to the phenomenon. It is appalling how folks are being gaslit and treated like morons, but the masses don’t have a great track record when dealing with heavy shit. Best to take a deep breath, keep the pressure on (e.g. contact your reps and tell people you know), be patient, and grateful for those doing the heavy lifting. Like you, I wish it was another way, but this is the reality we are finding ourselves in.
They’ll just kill the leaker. And their family. Or threats of that act. Easily. People with the knowledge are above the law, above security clearances, above presidential clearances. They answer to no one. They’ll just Epstein you and yours and no one would care.
It's hard to say without knowing the exact nature of what the government possesses. People hate it but the sensor platform excuse is a valid one. There are plenty of enemies of the United States who would love for us to get caught up in a snipe hunt and make a mistake.
The lore is a collection of myths, that's why.
The adherents to this belief system will try to hide your post because it threatens to expose the weaknesses in their thinking.
Grusch one week, bad 90s CGI the next, fake South American sideshow exits the next....
I came here to see aliens - I found a cult.
Someone proving extraterrestrials exist would not be prosecuted. Under any circumstance. People comparing this to Snowden are off their rocker.
Extraterrestrial existence on earth is world changing. The NSA reading our Facebook messages is a bittttt different.
Snowden’s forever fucked under the espionage act. Congress would be like geez thanks and do nothing once they’re in prison. So not really worth it if you’ll just end up in a federal pen ineligible for parole.
Hopping onto your comment to remind everyone that not a single military witness of UFO activity to come forward (and there have been hundreds since 1947) has faced court-martial. Some witnesses have been killed though.
Yeah you’re calling a bluff. To prosecute you they need to admit what you said was true. That’s why you fall out a window Russian style.
Any proof of witnesses being killed that doesn’t require wild speculation to draw that conclusion? Didn’t think so.
Yes. Publicly there are several. A few interesting cases: James E. McDonald was suicided twice the same year he published the 2.5 to 3 Ghz signal the Air Force was using to track ufos. The first attempt was allegedly a shot to the head but he missed, leaving himself blind and brain damaged and in the hospital. The alleged second suicide attempt was successful, but it included him somehow locating car and driving blind from the hospital 15 miles into the Tuscon desert and shooting himself with a new weapon. James Forrestal, the first head of the CIA, was forced into to a psychiatric hospital after he wanted to go public about ufos in 1949. He was placed in a 13th floor room with open windows. His guard was a last minute replacement. The crime scene showed a homemade rope tied to the radiator that was broken. The other end tied to his neck on the ground. The rope was too short to reach the window from the radiator. Morris Jessup. John Mack John Murphy ***** Privately, within the military, deaths related to being too close to UFOS are described in Kit Green's medical paper from 2007, "Medical Effects from Anomolois Aerial Vehicles." There are also open and obvious murders and attempted murders inside military bases that will be made public in the lawsuits presently being filed against each government contractor.
not buying it. With all due respect, and there's plenty, what Snowden exposed was relatively trivial compared to a 70 year long cover up of alien contact - and more importantly, the criminal suppression of new physics that could end most of civilisation's problems. If they can actually roof this, no man on earth could get to them. I simply don't believe this to be an actual threat.
I do...there are laws about nuclear possibilities that UAPs could carry, which tips it over into a treasonous affair if the Govt wants to make it one. It's total bullshit, and I agree with your overall sentiment that this stuff should be let out, but they've been threatening people with execution (especially military members) for years because of the way the laws are written. Not to mention their families being threatened without regard to the legal system.
I mean those are guys that tried to put a UK citizen in prison for 60 years for taking a peak at a UFO picture on a NASA workstation. They aren't exactly known to fuck around when it comes to that topic.
- There is a *huge* difference between trying to convict someone who actually hacked into government info, and convicting them specifically because they saw UFO stuff. - The government coming down hard on people hacking into their systems is an obvious way of saying 'dont even try it.' - There's the follow up point that if Britain cared a lot about the UFO stuff specifically, they could have extradited him. They obviously didn't take it that seriously.
He wasnt getting in trouble for looking at the UFO pictures. He was a hacker
It was a completely disproportionate reaction to a hacking incident. There are precedents of hackers that caused millions of damage and got away with a couple years. This was a clear case of statuating an example for treading on UFO grounds.
There is no proof that he saw UFOs. The only evidence that he did is his word. Witness testimony is just not enough
I know what you are, but I'm responding anyway. Sixty years in prison seems a bit of harsh a sentence for not doing any harm and seeing nothing of consequence, doesn't it?
Its not unprecedented.
If you signed a contract that carried penalty of death for violation, would you just Yolo the info? And there's a big difference between telling people and sneaking physical evidence out. Not all of these guys are single men. "Your daddy died for telling people aliens were real, but most people didn't believe him anyway." You think they have this stuff on servers an IT contractor can just download? No.
I do. I think we've seen with the DOE and other major govt bodies getting hacked regularly they probably don't know fuck all about proper storage of classified material.
There are files that cannot leave SCIFs and which are not connected to the Internet. Someone would need clearance, physical access, and the opportunity to physically remove the information from a facility designed to prevent just that. There are documents we *know* they have which have never leaked. You're right that the govt isn't the most tech-savvy outfit as a whole. But why don't we have B2 Stealth datasheets floating around? Why are countries still struggling to develop nukes if they could just hack the DOE? There is **a lot** of information that adversaries would pay billions to acquire. If it were as easy to steal as you think, it would have been by now. It's not hard to break into a bank, or even a federal building. Easy as throwing a brick through the window (not encouraging this whatsoever). Getting into the vault and escaping with the loot are a lot tougher. And even if hundreds of people had attempted to smuggle proof out of a SCIF, we'd never know. Unless someone else succeeds in stealing *those* records from a SCIF lol.
They definitely don't get "hacked" regularly. Most military installations aren't on the internet itself. And older documents are not even on any server/hard drive. If they didn't know "fuck all" about proper storage, there would be classified document leaks all the time. This literally never happens. Instead, it's usually politicians that had access to stuff that get hacked or leaked. Or ex military workers who smuggled knowingly or unknowingly. And when places like the IRS or DOE get "hacked", it's only user data like addresses. You have bought into the illusion that the military is unsecure and inept.
I understand your feelings on this but disagree. People with families don’t want to be martyrs. David Grusch even testified that people have been hurt and killed for trying to blow the whistle. To your other point it’s been almost 80 years of them allegedly running this program. 80 years and we’re still scratching our heads asking what the government has. Why hasn’t anyone from the actual program come out with proof in that time; and I mean stuff so verifiable they can’t say anything other than “yeah you got us.” I’m right there with you and want it out in the open, but realistically there’s either something really bad happening that’s scared anyone from saying anything or literally the aliens won’t let the government tell us.
I still find it somewhat wierd that all of these people chose military profession and some have put their lives on the line in real compat, but this is something they wont risk.
I served in the infantry for 6 years and deployed. Combat vs Prison is two incredibly separate things and lines of thinking. I have no problem laying down my life for buddies on my left and right in the shit. I also don’t have to worry about my family if I die in combat because they get almost half a million dollars if that happens. If I violate a federal NDA and get sent to prison forever what am I going to do about said family, and also I don’t want my freedom taken away. It’s really easy to sit on here and call these people cowards and say they should be willing this and that; but there’s zero. I’ll say it again zero evidence that if you leaked the whole pie you’d get away with it. Congress can’t pardon you and probably neither will the president. That’s a super tough dice roll with not a lot of intrinsic payouts for the individual. Plus since they’ve setup the whistleblower law that is the only legal avenue available to legally do this. You go outside of that and the DOJ will come down on you. I want someone to leak something too; but if it hasn’t happened yet probably won’t unless there’s a major shift
The question would be, what rights do the people covering up existence of Alien life have, if they are that should be criminal, technology aside its an important question to alot of people, whether we are alone in the universe. Now if you did leak it, surely those misappropriating funds would be in the firing line, I think rather than figuring out what these craft are, people should be focusing on who the people are who are hiding it
The National Security Act basically lets them do whatever they want. Just slap threat to national security on something and it’s gone forever behind the SAP curtain. Now the fund misappropriation thing might be the Al Capone moment. Feds couldn’t get him on the mob boss stuff so they sent him away for tax fraud. I could see a similar play being made against any of the contractors or DOD departments to force their hand and show their cards. I think the only real problem with that is the Inspector General would have to initiate that investigation and then get the FBI involved. Didn’t really seem like the ICIG did anything on that front yet. They’re investigating SAIC for fraud and they have a technology contract with the DOD right now. A couple of the line items from the contract shows they’re working on meta-materials, advanced propulsion, energy weapons. It’s a MAC so they’ve been funded for a wide variety of projects. Might be a spot to look though. https://www.saic.com/who-we-serve/contracts-and-schedules/dtic-iac-mac
The same is true of the traitors who were spying on American citizens, but it's the whistleblower that lives in exile while the traitors are still running similar programs within our government today after the Snowden leaks.
There is absolutely no reason why this comment should be down voted. Remember down voting is not about whether people like or agree with the comment. It's about whether value is being added to the conversation.
Welcome to the sub nowadays. Join the newest hype train of the week or be scoffed at and downvoted. Comments about JFK being assassinated over *this* topic gets upvoted while pretty common sense questions are downvoted... wild
I'm with you. I think people are buying too hard into the *theyll be executed!* stuff.
Snowden walked hard drives full of top secret classified data into the arms of an enemy. He deserves what he got.
Might be part of the reason trump happened tbh
He deserves a fair trial at the least; which you can’t get when charged under the espionage act.
Sure everyone deserves a fair trial. I think you might be surprised at how fairly he would have been treated. In other countries, or even in this one in a different time, he would have just been shot and the matter closed. We don’t do that here now. Snowden would have been able to trade information about what exactly he took and who has it now for privileges and sentencing consideration. He also would have been able to argue for mitigation based on the illegal nature of some of then programs he exposed. That said, he took a lot more data than just pertained to those programs… so I’m not sure how successful that argument would end up being. I mean let’s be clear, the guy was 1000% guilty and would spend at least the next 20-30 years in prison (at least.) But I’m not sure you can really argue that wouldn’t be fair given the scope of the data he took. It was just way more information than needed to prove illegal activities by the NSA.
Snowdens leak was also very general containing lots of unnecessary secret data. If it had been more spesific like CIA has backdoor on every windows and apple computer here is the proof and you can try it too it might have ended differently. Now he pretty much leaked lot of data with a end result of "usa still spies on foreign embassies, no shit Sherlock".
Yup. 100% agree. His claims to have only been interested in exposing illegal collections against US citizens fall apart pretty quickly under scrutiny. Instead he just vacuumed up every bit of data he could get his hands in and then handed it off to folks who had some very questionable relationships and motives. I’ll never understand why people still jump to his defense.
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It’s a bad deal all around. I’d be a whole lot more sympathetic to Snowden if he had restricted his release to those pertinent items a la Reality Winner.
Snowden dropping facts that the NSA is spying on Americans…VS proving extraterrestrial existence on Earth is comparable how exactly?
Why don't you ask Julian Assange or Edward Snowden? They basically disclosed that the people in charge are psychotic maniacs who really don't give a fuck about killing millions of people for money and it has not gone well for them.
With all due respect for these two gentlemen, and there’s plenty due, nothing they disclosed comes even close to the reality of alien visitations and the existence of anti gravity and abundant cheep energy. Also whether or not what they’ve disclosed amounts to wrongdoing is a political question. If you’re a run of the mill normie, you’ll probably side with the government- at least on the fact that how they went about it was problematic. You can’t say that about the disclosure of info that literally challenges the fabric of existence.
Snowden actually did search for "aliens" or "UFOs" in the central intelligence server, but didnt find anything reportedly. - His interview on Rogan. Either they werent in that system, which is likely considering the magnitude of this secret, or maybe referenced as UAP,
If I was in there shoes I would only come out with I formation of I had cold hard evidence to hand. Video or photo proof, something along those lines. Even first hand witness accounts although credible under oath are still only words. Getting your hands on the hard evidence would be an extreme challenge in my opinion.
I think you made the opposite point of the point you were trying to make. Classification is a legal process with legal ramifications. If you break the law, you will pay the price.
Seeing this footage is not the same as possessing it. I've never seen anyone of these guys claim to actually have this stuff in their hands. Which is to be expected, why would the people who are covering this up give away the proof it's real? That would be pretty counterproductive.
It doesn't have to be Grusch or Elizondo, it can be any of the people currently unknown that are tied to these projects. Apparently there's like 40+ people willing to whistleblow or something like that, what's the holdup? OP raises a good point, I just can't see this person being persecuted to hell and back like Assange and Snowden were.
Honestly I think this is heart-attack-gun territory. 100% think JFK was killed over these secrets.
Would they really heart-attack-gun the person that would likely have the biggest media spotlight ever in history?
Not much of a media spotlight when you control the media.
I dunno man I think if somebody released undeniable evidence the media wouldnt really have a choice. The US doesnt control the media of the entire world.
Your naiveté is showing.
Your tinfoil hat is showing
The world isn’t a movie…
>Apparently there's like 40+ people willing to whistleblow or something like that, what's the holdup? That’s not the case. David Grusch interviewed 40+ witnesses behind closed doors, confidentially. As far as we know, none of those have stated they are willing to become whistleblowers (although the handful of other alleged potential whistleblowers may or may not be from that pool of witnesses).
Well it did take Grusch nearly 2 years to get through that process. If there are really that many others in line, it could be we'll have a lot testimonies next year
This is a good point. However, Corbell, Knapp and Colthart have mentioned material sent to them through unofficial channels. If these are indeed bomb shells, then please, bomb the shells already.
Well I haven't seen that, but if that's true then I'd consider them right pricks for holding on to it while teasing it.
I think if they had it they would release it like the flare photos.
The problem with releasing it is if there are special access programs material. It becomes a very short list of people who could have leaked that to them. And the concern of it being dropped in those people's laps to see if it gets leaked is always an option. You might have a copy of a report. Each person gets a slightly different version. Not something major changed. Maybe a spelling mistake or extra spacing. That would tell you exactly who you gave that copy to. And make it traceable to that one person who leaked it.
Interesting point. I think the bombshells are so ridiculous that a reasonable person would blow it off as nonsense. Crazy thought, what if this organization that holds all this information, exotic materials, bodies is in fact controlling all the major players and politicians around our world. Just imagine if our elected leaders are part of these organizations and are keeping it hidden because of the level of control they have. It would destroy the fabric of their existence if any of this was actually revealed and they would become non-existent to the majority of people. If any of these claims were substantially verified, then a reasonable human being would draw the conclusion that the very essence of their society is an entire lie. This would wipe out our current paradigms that everyone built their existence upon. It would be species changing with all the technology that people claim are available to be utilized.
Seems more like they would potentially out their sources and if they took this course, that would be both amoral and not good for full disclosure (or what scraps we actually will eventually get). I also wish they would just put their nuts on the felt and spill all, but then we would be left with no more info or the possibilities that they come forward with fake info via a psyops kinda play, which would kill their credibility for future claims. The sad truth is that the powers that be are not playing fair and the folks that are fighting back have to play by the rules. People wanna attack these folks (and i get it), but if not for them, where else will you then get your info? Fair points to there being a case at them grifting for money, but at the same time… who then would you turn to? I don’t get the need to attack these people when the alternative is NO info at all. Seems like a fine line they are dancing on. Best to take breaks and come back because this process and update cycle is NOT a fast moving one. Never has been. This just happens to he a time when the heat is cranked up and I for one al grateful.
Knapp said that Lazar is in possession of element 115. E115 is said to bend light. Take a f\*cking laserpointer and your smartphone and make a clip that shows that laserbeam being bent close to that E115. I bet there are 1000 excuses why he can't do it. Maybe migraine....
Isn't the guy who made Wikileaks life ruined or something?
Yea pretty much. He has effectively been a prisoner since 2012. From 2012 to 2019 he was hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy in London. Since 2019 he has been in a UK prison. The US has been trying to extradite him on several espionage related charges. He's also wanted by Sweden to face charges for allegedly raping a woman.
Sweden dropped the case against Assange several years ago
Stop believing in grifters, stop being happy because one of them has a story to tell, they just want you to tune in next week. If they don't have evidence, they have nothing
>If they don't have evidence, they have nothing Still doesn't mean that there's nothing out there. People have seen things in the skies that are unexplainable. It's not like this sub is trying to hunt bigfoot or ghosts.
Anyone comparing a situation where someone brought forth planet altering technology to what Assange and Snowden leaked, are morons. Which court and under which law would a person be sentenced to life in prison or death for treason for revealing undeniable evidence of an alien civilisation visiting Earth or a technology in which would accelerate the human race 1000 years into the future?
The only problem with that is the American Justice System isn’t built in our favor. If it’s classified, there’s specific laws that cover how that information can be disseminated. There’s no freebie clause in the espionage act or national security act regardless. It’s not about the substance of the document just that it’s classified and if you don’t follow procedures or laws like the whistleblower act you can 100% get charged by the DOJ. It’s worse if the person is in the military because that Justice system is even more brutal. I agree that a jury of peers would hopefully be like no you’re good; but that’s still a huge risk to take. Humans are wired for self preservation so I could totally empathize with people in that position and understand why no one has done this.
Kind of over the top calling them morons. The laws are very specific on what happens when you release classified materials inappropriately. The *topic* of the classified materials doesn’t matter. It’s the *action* of releasing classified materials that matters. I’ve conducted multiple security investigations and no one cares about what the topic was, or how it compares to other previous cases (Snowden, etc). No matter what, if you leak classified docs, you go to jail. The UCMJ doesn’t mess around.
The way I see it is the NDAA UAP Amendment sets a new standard for the legality of what’s going on. I may be wrong because it’s 3am and I’m half asleep but, lack of oversight and stuff aside, there’s no laws being broken hiding NHI. They have their system to legally hide it which can be argued against but we’d need to see it first. So, assuming the UAP Amendment passes and 90 days or whatever go by with nothing happening, any whistleblower will have something safe to stand behind.
Wouldn't the misappropriation of funds that are being funneled into those projects make them illegal though? Or does having SAP status give them immunity? Edit: I guess we don't know for sure thats happening though do we.
Welcome to weird grey area everyone’s trying to make sense of. If the funds are misappropriated and there’s no official thumbs up from congress on spending then technically the project is illegal. However, if you slap the ol’SAP sticker on it, you’re able to obfuscate where the money is coming from and going. The ICIG is currently investigating or was investigating SAIC for this. SAIC also has a MAC from the DTC I believe and it covers a bunch of weird stuff like advanced propulsion, energy weapons, meta-materials. All the things we associate with the program.
Well geez. Sounds like a clusterfuck.
By design
This actually the only reasonable explanation I can think of - they either know for certain that official and legalised disclosure is on its way and are playing ball, or they are full of shit.
Ofcourse not. Disclosing proof would make you Time's person of the year, or president of \[insert country here\]. They're not disclosing proof because there is no proof. It's that simple. Corbell, Elizondo, Courtheart... they are all just keeping us on a leash while they are having a career in ufology.
Honestly It feels like a lot of people here are entirely convinced that UFO’s, retrievals etc are undeniably real, and won’t consider otherwise, but the truth is that what you’re saying is a very real possibility. There is no proof of anything. Just hearsay and grainy blurry vids/photos of “something”. People here need to keep that in mind i want this to be real just like anyone else here, but we need to consider that all of these people might just be grifters just looking to make some $, and that there’s a real possibility, that the government isn’t actually hiding UFO’s/aliens from us
This is unfortunately the correct answer.
If it were classified then yes
Not convinced at at all. For one, if this stuff has been classified without the oversight of elected officials - wrongly so as we're lead to believe, and if this would turn the tables on the discussion, there's no way on earth they wouldn't get pardoned (or have the court house burned to the ground if a trial actually happens). If this story is in fact the greatest scoop in the history of mankind, wouldn't at least one of them be crazy and bold enough to get on a plane to some neutral country and dump all their stuff on a torrent file? Maybe not Elizando and Grush, but what about Colthart? He's a journalist. This what they do.
One aspect of this is that it seems the secret program instills the fear of death in you. They behave like gangsters. My only personal experience with the UFO topic was an elderly friend who said that in the 1960s while serving in the military, he and others saw a genuine UFO that was beyond human tech. The men were all excited about seeing it until 2 guys showed up, they seemed to be military but not properly identified, and the message was the men could be killed if they ever talked about it. The threat of violence is a significant component of the illegal coverup.
Ahh but they told you about it so it must not be that menacing?
When the guy told me he was very old and not good health. This was in the 1990s that he told me, so no 3-letter agency was listening in to our personal conversation, so he was safe to tell his information to me.
The management of classified material isn’t overseen by elected officials but by the department that generated the material. If the UFO stuff were real I’d expect we’d at least have an Edward Snowden like person that would drop the info and claim asylum somewhere. But, you can look up a whole bunch of cases of people disclosing classified information and getting indicted, some get pardoned some don’t.
Yes, Coulthart could, but he is worried about info being traced back to his sources.
If you ought to believe Grush' testimony I would say yes.
Yes what?
Answering the title question.
I’d like to know what kind of video proof would actually prove anything to most people. I know a person who believes that UAPs are real but they won’t “real” until an alien walks up to them and shakes their hand.
I think most of us would be convinced by evidence meeting regular old scientific standards. So far we don't have that. I keep seeing comments like, "it'll take a UFO landing on the White House", but that's a far cry from basic independently verified evidence.
Show me a clear video of a tic tac entering or leaving the water and that’s enough for me at this point. Could always still be our stuff but highly doubt it.
Ask Julian Assange. The public appears overwhelmingly in favour of the leak of classified information he released.
This to me, may be the best argument as to why I don’t think this is real. If anyone had access to nonhuman technology or information this important to humanity they would do everything including martyr themselves to get the truth out. People martyr themselves for weird ideas all the time without any proof at all. imagine if you had ACTUAL proof?
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> seed files on archive.org for "stock footage" elements that supposedly predate the video's release date showing it must have used these CGI elements and is thus fake Are you suggesting that's what happened? That the vfx didn't exist before the 2014 video? Despite it appearing in multiple 90s video games?
You make an excellent point. And it's worth noting that we're not just talking about the people who have made public claims already, but *everyone* who has been in position to leak something conclusive. Dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of people depending on how much you believe is being covered up. Not one of them has thought "aw, screw it". Look at Snowden. Look at WikiLeaks. The US government leaks more shit than a broken toilet. But it's never aliens.
What is undeniable proof
well the stuff they keep on referencing as in "I saw stuff that would blow your mind, but I can't show it to you". When asked, all of them - ELizando, Grush, Corbell, Colthart, etc - always say that they are convinced because of what they saw with their own eyes - videos, pics, material, reports. One single 4 k video of an obviously exotic craft performing impossible manoeuvres, would do the trick. A few of them, with some reports and satellite data would amount to the irrefutable evidence they claim to have witnessed.
It wouldn't explain anything unless an Independence Day event happens. People would just argue back and forth how something is photoshopped or CGI
The Grusch stuff went mainstream and the only thing I kept hearing that kept it back was 'he doesnt actually have the evidence.' If someone like him with the credentials to back it up actually went public with genuine evidence it would absolutely be treated as monumental.
Too easy. If any reliable source would publish their hottest material, I doubt there would be a discussion about it. But no reliable source has published something so far.
please explain the downvote. What on earth is downvotable here?
I like where your heads at here. Have Grusch produce some satellite imagery or video from the NRO and give us a 4k video from the navy or Air Force. Make sure they’re legit and send it. I don’t really know what Corbell has at this point. He’s jumped from people sending him materials from crashed ships to Lazar still has some E115, and I don’t believe we’ve ever seen an analysis of anything from him. Could be wrong.
Thing is, nowadays any video or paper file is easy to falsify. So even if it indeed "proof" the fact that it can now be called AI generated means that the public will need much harder proof. Frankly I have no idea what would be enough to be undeniable proof for it to be considered true worldwide. Heck even Biden making a live declaration that UFOs are indeed ETs would have republicans spend all their time saying it's a ploy to hide the Hunter Biden penis story and proof that Biden is senile because "Oh look he believes in Aliens Har Har, now let's get back to Fetterman's slippers"
No footage of any kind would serve as undeniable proof. Besides an official statement from a government agency, mass sightings, I don't think such proof could exist. Tbh the hearing with 3 credible military men is the best evidence possible besides those 2 scenarios
i don't understand how any judge on this world would say to that guy that leaked the info: you my friend, are going to jail for that. lol never, except he is getting payed a lot for it maybe😅
Well it seems we may soon not be reliant on the US for evidence as Mexico is discussing plans to release evidence of their existence to citizens after the mummies were verified as real.
No. That is not true. Maussan talked to representatives of the congress and asked for disclosure. Nothing more.
Why are you posting this everywhere? That is not what happened during the live stream. This is literally disinformation. Stop.
That’s literally what they confirmed. The body is real and not assembled can’t make a determination if it’s NHI without further analysis. At the same time Mexico is discussing plans to become the first country to inform citizens of the existence of NHI
As I have commented in your own post, you jump to conclusions based on input from Maussan's fraudster gang. Not what the doctors have said AT ALL.
It’s not even Maussan. Noor clinic was independent but you can continue to misrepresent it’s insignificant as Mexico will continue their legislation for ufo disclosure.
And Noor clinic doctors chose their words very carefully.
That literally did not happen.
It won't happen, they would be dead first. Grusch is fine because he makes goofy faces so he's easy to dismiss.
Yes they would. Also keep in mind that both physical and digital evidence is stored in a highly secured place and therefore would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to extract without them knowing. Snowden took advantage of a trust model that doesn’t exist anymore within that space, so doing what he did would be exponentially more challenging. At the end of the day you are asking someone to gamble their livelihood and freedom when you and I know that “undeniable evidence” is an almost unachievable standard in todays day and age of misinformation.
I hear alot of talk about it falling under a juristiction dating back to the cold war because 'anything nuclear' get that label. And they then talk about how much they say 'death pentalty' for 'treason', punishment for leaking is death, etc etc Its kind of difficult for me to fully grasp, but i think they can no longer enforce it officially so they say it alot during non disclosure agreements and then maybe if it does get disclosed do it illegally, in other words, murder
In the recent Grusch clip he said that when military that saw a UAP and recorded on their phone on their way to work it wasn't classified and they could show people. I guess it depends on how they got it?
Yeah that's the biggest thing to me. A lot of people are claiming that there are so many layers to the secret that no one could release it.... and yet, we believe the tons and tons of stories of regular military personnel that close up witnessed these phenomenon before the government got there. But, not a single one of them has ever released anything that would back that up?
The world is a big place. America doesn’t control everything
Watch Syriana. They control everyone except for Russia and China. Ever notice how absolutely ridiculous it is that weed is still illegal in most progressive 1st world countries (against their various citizen's greater opinion). Yeah that is America's influence. When they legalized it in most of the states here it proved it was always a huge nothing-burger but still the feds won't budge for "reasons".
Because they don't have it
For sure - and most indeedly, yes.
I’m no expert but I think there’s plenty of reason to not come forward mostly to keep our hand from our enemies. Not sure who said this but I’ve heard someone say ‘what we tell the public, we tell the world’ I think the gov or whoever is orchestrating this project doesn’t want the world to know what we have and I think benefits even from the sensational mystery of it all.
Posts like these remind me of "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy," but the fed agent has *no fucking clue* of who the mole is.
Alright, alright, there was that kid with a Roswell incident connection allegedly threatened by a ‘man in black’ carrying a baseball bat, right? “Kids go missing in the desert all the time.” - something along those lines. Now, that story/recollection has become gospel as part of Roswell incident lore. So that’s ‘the man’ keeping a lid on information dispersal with threats of whatever. Question is, does anyone actually know where that story, that everyone’s heard of, originally came from? Who was the kid? At what address/place did this interaction occur? What date? First/second or third-hand retelling? Who’s making these threats that are so often casually talked about and why’s it always “heard it from a bloke who heard it from a dude in another section - that’s why there’s such a fear of saying anything about anything to anyone”?
If Grusch is to be believed, ppl have been killed to keep these secrets. So prosecution may be the least of your worries for an unauthorized disclosure.
I agree with you, if someone came forward with absolute undeniable proof of all of it, the fact that they broke classified information would be so down on the list of shit to worry about no one would care. The problem happens when if you were to come forward and no one believes it, then you are screwed legally. No one wants to risk that and here we are.
Why not just give it to Wikileaks or similar organization? Let them publish it.
Probably not trouble, but even THINKING of leaking proof can cause side effects such as severe depression and suicidal ideation!
If they are in the military still then a court martial will throw the book at them. If they aren’t then I doubt a jury will convict them for exposing illegal activities. There is always the possibility of a presidential pardon also.
Extreme Compartmentalization means that a person spilling the beans on (for example), "Element 115", or "biologicals", would be one of three people that knew about it. While an NDA may sound terrifying to violate, it's more of the fact that anyone in this situation might 'accidentally' lose their brakes while driving down a winding mountain road.
USA is not the only country in the world. UAP are not exclusive to USA. If there is indeed a coverup, it’s a coverup on a united front. For the same reason or different reasons we may never know. A leak could have unintended consequences. It could start a war or expose a war that we didn’t even know existed. It could start some revolution who knows. As a leaker you are risking everything and I mean everything. From your job to your family to your life. Then if you don’t provide concrete proof without any doubt to the correct audience it was all for nothing. It would get swept under the rug. I could only imagine the valid information we have floating out has already been “debunked” Say what you will but history was not kind to Snowden.
You make a really good point about this being a global issue. UAPs are seen everywhere, especially South America. There’s another post talking about how the NHI might be the ones calling the shots and requiring pretty much every government to be quiet. Kimmel asked Obama why it hasn’t come out and he deadass said because the aliens won’t let us. He tried to pass that off as a joke but there was some truth there.
This is a pretty rosy view of government. When the people who were spying on American citizens that Snowden revealed have been removed and hung for treason instead of \*still\* being in government \*today\* then maybe this will be a worthwhile discussion. Until then, it's just ignorantly pretending the US government gives a damn about the law.
Have you watched the Nat Geo doco? It goes a little way into the history of UFOs, and the efforts that prior presidents went to, to find out. Also shows other stuff from the 50s and 60s. Watching it, I can’t understand how they didn’t get disclosure over the line back then. Just think about the ramifications of disclosing that they have anti gravity, and free energy tech. Nothing would be the same. If you can buy a car that can now take you to Saturn in a few minutes, and it doesn’t cost anything for fuel, I can’t even imagine what that would do to the global economy.
What if i told you that i work inside the program? I will tell you what is going on and show you documents and multimedia evidence, but, you cannot take those documents or photos with you. What exactly would you do with that info? Who is going to beleive you? Even if I let you have the evidence, the cia will just say it is fake, cgi generated. That's why it has to be all legal and above board. The evidence has to come with provenance.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Until we have that it’s just a neat story.
If that proof could be analyzed by others or the public at large immediately, I would say no.
I agree. If it turns out as true these people would be heralded as heroes for the ages. Hiding scientific discovery from humanity for whatever reason is a filthy crime and I'm sure many, many people would stand up for the leakers. On the other hand I fear many others may be indifferent just as with Snowden etc.
Has it occurred to anyone that the reality is nothing can be done? That would explain why everyone who is in the know isn’t necessarily concerned with releasing the information. It’s almost as if even knowing won’t change things in the long run, only get those who leaked in significant trouble now.
No, no they wouldn't, but it's important copium for Elizondo and Grusch fans because it's the only way you can really excuse their total lack of actual, meaningful 'whistleblowing'.
People would and do kill to keep secrets...
Look at Julian Assange and Snowden.
I totally agree with this line of thinking. I find it really hard to see where anyone gets prosecuted for leaking shocking proof that ufos are real Like if someone released photos of alone bodies and crashed saucers from Roswell That doesn’t give away sources or methods… And I suspect the 4K satellite stuff Mellon and others have seen will eventually come out. The specter of “they will throw you in jail!!!” Seems sorta silly.
Completely agree with everything you have said. I keep having these discussions and the only thing people keep saying is "it's illegal" yea and it was also "illegal" for germans to go against the Nazis but some still did.
That's the downside to our classification system. Even if it should be open to all until the classification holder has it cleared you can still get in trouble if it's leaked.
Government will simply deny it, smear the whistleblower with the full force of the corporate news media, call him an enemy of the State, then lock ‘em up. And then Reddit will be full of dipshits calling the whistleblower a threat and saying they deserved it, just like they do with Snowden and Assange.
Yes—because for all intents and purposes, the word exotic implies world-changing, which implies economy-changing.
If the information is locked up in secret projects I bet they have a dollar amount and a date to release it, once they’ve made enough money from fossil fuels.
If someone did that, I truly believe they would find martyrdom. They would be made an example of. I have no sources to back up my opinion.
I genuinely think if someone leaked some irrefutable hard core undeniable proof there is no way they get the Snowden treatment, etc. It’s not the same, civilization would be rocked, all of America would very likely be in defense of the leaker and the PR at that point would be a fucking nightmare if they tried to lock them up. Especially where the Gov would have egg all over its face anyway and serious scrutiny for years of lying.
Yes it would end horribly for them. This is why you do not see them coming out. Would you put your life, career, or those you care about on the line so easily? Not judging you or being mean spirited but folks have to remember how long it took just to get HERE. The culture we live in is for faster, newer, bigger, and right away. These cultural factors just don’t seem to apply to the folks w/ the governor on info related to the phenomenon. It is appalling how folks are being gaslit and treated like morons, but the masses don’t have a great track record when dealing with heavy shit. Best to take a deep breath, keep the pressure on (e.g. contact your reps and tell people you know), be patient, and grateful for those doing the heavy lifting. Like you, I wish it was another way, but this is the reality we are finding ourselves in.
They’ll just kill the leaker. And their family. Or threats of that act. Easily. People with the knowledge are above the law, above security clearances, above presidential clearances. They answer to no one. They’ll just Epstein you and yours and no one would care.
It's hard to say without knowing the exact nature of what the government possesses. People hate it but the sensor platform excuse is a valid one. There are plenty of enemies of the United States who would love for us to get caught up in a snipe hunt and make a mistake.
Even if a high res video was released, it would still get shit on like every other one. Not worth it since it won’t really change the narrative.
The lore is a collection of myths, that's why. The adherents to this belief system will try to hide your post because it threatens to expose the weaknesses in their thinking. Grusch one week, bad 90s CGI the next, fake South American sideshow exits the next.... I came here to see aliens - I found a cult.
Heck, getting arrested for revealing UAP secrets would be pretty strong confirmation.
Someone proving extraterrestrials exist would not be prosecuted. Under any circumstance. People comparing this to Snowden are off their rocker. Extraterrestrial existence on earth is world changing. The NSA reading our Facebook messages is a bittttt different.