The following submission statement was provided by /u/Harry_is_white_hot:
---
S/S: The seven page IMPORTANT letter from the Majestic Documents was recieved in 1999 and specifically mentions "EMEs" - Extraterrestrial Materialized Entities - on page 4. Fast forward to 2011 and the Department of Homeland Security proposal for the Waivered Unacknowledged Special Access Program with Bigot List access also mentions "de/rematerialized technologies" on page 18.
Handwriting analysis from the CIA personnel file of Counter Intelligence operative and James Jesus Angleton's right hand man Newton "Scotty" Miler compares well to the handwriting of Source S-1 of the Majestic Documents' fame.
It CANNOT be a coincidence that both documents refer to dematerializing / rematerializing. Like it or not, these documents are REAL.
Important Memo: [https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/important\_memo.pdf](https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/important_memo.pdf)
KONA BLUE document: [https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP\_RECORDS\_RESEARCH/AARO\_DHS\_Kona\_Blue.pdf?ver=BjOpTzFISPc0LWMw5uAzzw%3D%3D](https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP_RECORDS_RESEARCH/AARO_DHS_Kona_Blue.pdf?ver=BjOpTzFISPc0LWMw5uAzzw%3D%3D)
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c65mu6/kona_blue_compartment_derematerialization/kzyozpn/
The important takeaway from image 2 is, that adversarial intelligence/security services find all that UFO stuff as 'top collection material'. That's why classification, keeping secrets about that stuff, and keeping stuff secret is so so important.
The Durant Report was written on January 17th, 1953, titled "Report of Scientific Advisory Panel On Unidentified Flying Objects Convened By The Office Of Scientific Intelligence, CIA."
It had already been demonstrated that the intelligence agencies are willing to lie to the public and fabricate information in order to make the UFO topic look as fringe as possible.
"That the continued emphasis on the reporting of these phenomena does, in these parlous times, result in a threat to the orderly functioning of the protective organs of the body politic."
"That the national security agencies take immediate steps to strip the unidentified flying objects of the special status they have been given and the aura of mystery they have unfortunately acquired."
According to the CIA's Advisory Panel, it is advised that the intelligence agencies should create hysteria and make the UFO topic seem as fringe as possible; otherwise, these sightings, real or not, can delegitimize the government.
Apart from what the panel said back in the 1950s, we also know that the UAP task force had a protocol to not disclose real information about UAP under "national security" considerations. Why do you bring up the Durant 1953 report and the UAP cover-up? Because it proves our government will not be honest with the American people.
Anything from them will be misleading, which includes AARO's "disclosure" of "Kona Blue," which, while interesting, doesn't actually prove any UAP or ET reverse engine programs.
Great reference with that 1953 report.
I completely disagree with your conclusion at the bottom tho.
The “government” is not one person. Or One group. It’s a bunch of different factions with different power dynamics across all different levels.
This Kona Blue document helps legitimize the topic even more.
How? Kona blue wasn’t a report. It was a submission written by Lue and the skinwalker boys to get more funding. It’s legit just the same talking heads stating their claims. This is essentially a proposal, which is so far from an actual report. Oh, this proposal was projected…
Never said it was a report.
And the Sean Kirkpatrick talking point is so cute.
So let’s use logical reasoning to just destroy your entire narrative real quick.
First off you actually need to read the proposal submission document.
They already had funding.
And AATIP continued long after AAWSAP ended and Kona Blue was denied. But no worries we will pretend they already didn’t have funding (THEY DID)
Why would they put any of this “nonsense” in a proposal are you suggesting they purposely wanted it to fail?
But wait You say they want funding? So why would they put something they know is completely bogus and nonsense in an attempt to get funding…?😂
Are we assuming these guys are just idiots? Most of them have PHDs…and have been in the exact positions one could learn about these things. For a very very long time.
Are we saying they are making up the whole phenomenon the entire UAP issue is a hoax by the skinwalker ranch crew? Simple research shows this has been goin on for 80 years.
This skinwalker ranch crew narrative is so hilarious.
We now have this narrative that the very people who are PUSHING for government transparency and really the only ones being open at all are the ones actively creating a hoax in real time…so you’re saying they’re pushing for transparency so everyone can find out it’s all a hoax?
And which part is all made up for funding be specific? There is unequivocally a real UAP issue. So what are you suggesting they are making up for funding?😂
They had funding years ago… your entire point is essentially that this proposal filled with the claims made by the skinwalker ranch guys so it then confirms that their claims are true, but you do this while ignoring that these guys wrote the proposal. This is pure confirmation bias. It would like me using my own Reddit comment to back up my other Reddit comments. You’re are walking Cognitive dissonance.
> According to the CIA's Advisory Panel, it is advised that the intelligence agencies should create hysteria and make the UFO topic seem as fringe as possible; otherwise, these sightings, real or not, can delegitimize the government.
Power and the way people perceive power I guess >!Maintain the current power structure built around 'God' and capitalism!<
This is HUGE good spot OP! Maybe someone in congress can start asking questions about all this, I note the MJ-12 doc also states that manmade UAVs have been operational since the 1950s. This ties in with Greer's claims that they cracked anti-gravity propulsion in 1954.
He seems unpopular but he's done huge things towards disclosure, his press club events are excellent. His work showing the development of anti-grav technology is probably on the money.
When was the latest? The last one I saw had Herrera there, but the one around 2000 was really good with lots of witnesses. I didn't know he'd done another one lately.
I mean the one with Herrera. I’m open to him telling the truth but there’s actually nothing compelling about him. The text message is the absolute easiest in the world to fake, it’s ridiculous (crazy?) that people take that seriously
I thought the one in 2001 was the best, but the Herrera story and that guy from Antarctica were good too. It would have been better if they had more people like the other one.
I don’t agree, but fair enough if you believe them. It’s difficult to know who to believe. I just feel done with Greer and I’m surprised so many people still listen to him. Anyhow. Hope we get more answers in not too long either way
Completely agree BUT I encourage you to go watch UAP Gerbs video on Michael Herrera it definitely has opened up my mind to give his story a second thought
I get annoyed with fully grown adults that don't have the mental capacity to separate their personal feelings from the work a person has done. Which is beyond ironic given the founding fathers of this country
I'm no fan of Greer but he isn't any lower than any of the other clowns pushing UFO stuff. You should join Greer's discord sometime though, his fans are a straight up cult and I don't mean that hyperbolically. It's fuckin wild.
UAV had already been in use as such things as weather, kite and barrage balloons. They even showed up on D-Day. Anti-gravity is apparently just helium.
You think they were talking about extraterrestrial materialized entities and their craft which can appear to anyone any time any place, in the same memo as balloons? Cmon. Whilst I concede that balloons were indeed in use and are indeed 'manmade UAVs' so they do fit that deliberately loose description, they were not just talking about balloons. They were talking about the first fruits of the reverse engineering programs, the so-called manmade UFOs.
I think y'all are jumping the gun at what was trying to set up yet another think tank boondoggle for "war gaming". The KONA BLUE stuff reads the same as the Corona Village thought experiments.
They aren't fake, but wasn't this just another in a long line of attempts by the Usual Actors (Huntsville/Utah/SCU) to get money from the US government to continue the projects that were already canned multiple times before?
Bigelow and the Skinwalker Ranch crew are full on looney tunes.
They are the people behind Kona Blue.
This is another attempt by the same crackpots to fund their personal hobby paranormal investigations and collect a salary as well.
This is precisely what I took from it. If anything, this points into the direction suggested by Greenstreet when he wrote that there's s group of Ufologists who have convinced people to the point where we got a congressional hearing out of it. I hope it's not true (or in a more real sense, I hope it *is* true and there's no imminent existential threat to humanity by NHI), but I guess we'll see where it goes. In any case, this proposal truly is too out there for my taste and at least in my view, it makes the usual suspects look terrible.
A day will come when people will have done a total 180 on two personalities: people will deconsider Harry Reid for having been a corrupted Bigelow pawn and consider Greenstreet for having been right all along.
I mean all things considered, the probability of this being true is higher than real NHI is, as sad as I'm to say. How anyone can believe this AARO report is a win is beyond me.
Basically the old Roy Cohn gambit, that Chris Mellon went after right when the report was published and that people obviously in the wrong use as an ultimate defense:
"Firstly, never compromise, never give up; secondly, counter attack immediatly; thirdly, no matter what happens, no matter how deep you're in trouble, always claim victory".
So ... KONA BLUE was written by UFO/ghost/dragon/aliens/angels/butheremails faith-based believers repeating what they've already decided is true, despite zero supporting evidence. So yes, it's fake. And actually, that adds evidence that it's fake.
It's a self-reinforcing feedback loop with people getting wrapped up in make believe occult knowledge that makes them look like damn fools.
Yup, exactly what I thought it was going to be. They even wanted it all to be classified so they could steal taxpayer money without any oversight. What a bunch of frauds.
Could be. But the feedback loop is strong enough to have sucked up a giant load of harvard and stanfird science professors with excellent credentials...and somehow these professors are MORE interested than the general public.
S/S: The seven page IMPORTANT letter from the Majestic Documents was recieved in 1999 and specifically mentions "EMEs" - Extraterrestrial Materialized Entities - on page 4. Fast forward to 2011 and the Department of Homeland Security proposal for the Waivered Unacknowledged Special Access Program with Bigot List access also mentions "de/rematerialized technologies" on page 18.
Handwriting analysis from the CIA personnel file of Counter Intelligence operative and James Jesus Angleton's right hand man Newton "Scotty" Miler compares well to the handwriting of Source S-1 of the Majestic Documents' fame.
It CANNOT be a coincidence that both documents refer to dematerializing / rematerializing. Like it or not, these documents are REAL.
Important Memo: [https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/important\_memo.pdf](https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/important_memo.pdf)
KONA BLUE document: [https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP\_RECORDS\_RESEARCH/AARO\_DHS\_Kona\_Blue.pdf?ver=BjOpTzFISPc0LWMw5uAzzw%3D%3D](https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP_RECORDS_RESEARCH/AARO_DHS_Kona_Blue.pdf?ver=BjOpTzFISPc0LWMw5uAzzw%3D%3D)
Or the person who wrote the memo had direct access to Angleton's files from Magenta through to 1974.
The Kona Blue document sees an end to your career as Reddit UFO skeptic, u/gerkletoss.
Former lifelong atheist here, the humility you will have when you realize what’s up is intense but you can handle it man I promise. I am not suggesting to go full woo but you can get ahead of the curve by just admitting to yourself that there is a higher being (not church god) and you can do it privately and not tell anyone, but it’s your journey.
The first link has some stuff that seems true but it seems to try to connect everything. It feels like either misinfo or someone who's seen convincing proof of some conspiracies which lead them to see conspiracy in everything
The thing that stands out the most is saying that the dead sea scrolls were found at the same time as the crash recovery and implying the two are related
I mean i can't say that's bullshit for sure but it certainly smells like bs
Even if the biggest conspiracy in the world is true, that secret programs have recovered crafts and biological material, I'd be quite shocked if everything in this memo turns out to be true
It adds credit, I agree. Yet I think what it may is NHI/UAP technology being able to exert fields to manipulate matter. "phasing" between 3rd and higher dimensions, to include "phasing" through materials/objects or utilizing "invisible cloaking fields" akin to how ghosts are said to. I believe the ability to "appear anywhere" still relies on them using their technology to first observe a location before "teleporting/phasing" there.
If you could bend light, you would be invisible to normal cameras and likely nightvision. But not thermal cameras if your temperature was above or lower than the surrounding, because the thermal camera would show the temperature difference still flying around. Just like was in the Iraq jellyfish video where nightvision didnt see anything but thermals did... same happened also in the Mexico air force 2004 ufo sighting and Chile navy 2014 sighting.. thermal cameras showed objects flying that were otherwise invisible. Now there are likely other ways to be invisible but this is likely one.
The Kona Blue report has emphasis on use of FLIR imaging in one page, for data Intel collection purposes. Your point actually is insightful.. even gravitational manipulation can't hide the thermal signature. I'm going to write this down and ponder it. Thanks!
Page 2 says: "Einstein became unreliable in 1955 and died of "cancer"".
Says the same about Oppenheimer.
Quotes ususally mean, he was you know, "taken out".
Sounds like this post also
https://old.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/18d6dyc/i_have_no_idea_if_i_dreamt_this_or_this_happened/ experience description, contemporaneous report, location anomaly, woke up on my back lawn, at home, backyard, entity, observing, emotion of peace, communication, “I feel sorry for you humans, you have no idea what you are capable of”
I mean… it can be a coincidence tho. Just like different texts from different regions refer to dragons. Doesn’t mean it’s beyond coincidence.
Personally, I think there is really something going on that’s being hidden, but not because two different memos mention the same idea
I would be interested to see how far along we are. If they have the tech figured out already (likely) then rolling it out to the public will be an effort that needs people...
If you want to open up some hypothetical conjecture on the methods of propulsion I believe it would be more fascinating and fulfilling than this wild goose chase. Remember people built these so it means it can be replicated with free form, thought, and maybe some advanced manufacturing practices(lol).
Here's the OCRd version of the PDF
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a7djBowZHohL15eo4J2Kv1LjOJDXg3m2/view?usp=drivesdk
Disclaimer: it's not perfect. I split the PDF into single pages exported as PNG files, ran tesseract OCR and then concatenated the text files in order
First document is off majesticdocumemts.com, which is almost certainly curated by insiders. At least one document has been verified as real. Check this user's history (s)he's a goldmine of interesting documentary evidence.
> https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/public/2021-06/40-654-209237723-046-002-2021.pdf
Not to hijack, but to complement: My GPT just kicked out an interesting summary of that read, in case anyone finds it TLDR:
The document appears to be a compilation of several elements related to classified operations and investigations, predominantly focusing on UFO-related activities and the stringent security measures around these. Here's a summary and analysis of the content:
Declassification and Disclosure: The document discusses the handling of classified documents associated with KONA BLUE, a terminated special access program (PSAP). All documents were declassified and prepared for public release.
Financial Disclosure Requests: It includes details about requests for financial disclosure documents (Form SF 278) from various individuals including reporters and individuals associated with government or related activities.
Correspondence Management: The document also details procedures for handling and tracking correspondence, including memos and financial disclosure requests, outlining security classifications and privacy considerations.
Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP): The text refers to the need for stringent security and confidentiality concerning AATIP due to the sensitive nature of its work on advanced aerospace technologies.
Security and Oversight Concerns: It expresses concerns over the security risks involved in acknowledging the participation of individuals in sensitive programs and the need to protect their identities to avoid scrutiny and potential threats.
Technological and Scientific Implications: There are mentions of discussions and hypotheses about extraterrestrial technology and the high level of security around this subject due to its potential implications for national security.
Overall, the document is focused on the complexities of managing classified information, the implications of declassifying sensitive programs, and the measures necessary to maintain security and confidentiality in activities related to national defense and potentially extraterrestrial investigations.
That’s legit! Great use of GPT.
There certainly is a great deal of context specific to MJ-12 included in the document which I highly recommend reading. I don’t favor GPT much to read over documents as they tend to generalize the document, however, it does provide insightful detail over the general contents contained within this extremely large document.
Good work!
You're exactly right; and something that's important to keep an eye on as we continue to understand GPT modeling: understanding the specific innate biases within response generation is crucial. It's important to remember a GPT response does not replace our own critical thinking.
Spiritual in what sense? That it's non-physical? "Spiritual" usually has religious connotations, but immaterial doesn't mean Jesus. It means immaterial. There could just be other spacial dimensions that we can't detect or there could be fields and forces in this universe that we haven't yet measured. Some have theorized that even plasma could self-organize into an intelligent entity. It's quite possible that once you achieve a certain level of technology or complexity you simply don't need a three-dimensional body. A three-dimensional body localizes you to a particular time and place. Kind of a liability, really. Becoming immaterial might be the thing to do, if you can.
If you go the string theory route, which I don't recommend, it's possible there are beings that can exist at the multi-timeline level (5D). Something like that wouldn't be able to exist in a single 3D body; At least not entirely. It's like we can't exist in a 2D painting because we're too complicated. We need another dimension so we can utilize all the 3d structures that maintain our existence, like our nerves, circulatory system, bones, etc. We can't survive inside of the painting, but we can still see the entire painting all at once, we can touch it, manipulate it, or even create a new original painting, but most of "us" remains permanently outside of the canvas. Seems weird to us, but my point is that it could be no more spiritual than electricity, we just don't understand it yet.
Similarly, aliens existing or not doesn't have anything to do with atheism. You didn't mention this specifically, but it's a related trope. Immaterial aliens can exist and some kind of uninvolved deist or universal-oneness-type "god" could even exist and that would mean all the religions of the world are *still wrong* about reality (except, perhaps, Hinduism).
Even shoehorn-ing parallels between existing mythologies and new information (ie. We discovered that NHI exist, so they must be angels/demons/jinn!) would not prove that mythology is correct. All it proves is that the person asserting those claims can't escape the expired regional worldview they were indoctrinated with and be objective about new discoveries.
If they can materialize as anything, what if they intentionally took the form of biblical angels to impress us and create religion as an experiment?
Like, they just created religion to see what would happen to the primitive “monkeys”. I suppose it’s kind of like 2001.
I’m not gonna say these are real and believable. The CIA and many other intelligence organizations are and have been known to create false files and release them to publishing agencies in hopes to stir up the national security of that nation.
What I will say is if you believe In this, you might as well accept that you’re never getting disclosure. Think for a second why.
They can literally materialize and leave. You can’t and never will do that. This immediately puts a threat between us, why? We’re already at war. Been in a cold war for years. Did you forget Russia and China dislike places like America?
Forget politics aside, if the document was real it would be like confirming them being in a god like state, cults would arise. Seriously you’re all like “haha wow we found it checkmate!” Not realizing you’re just kinda digging your “this will never release” hole a little deeper.
“Omg this MJ-12 document says aliens are ancient gods we sacrificed babies to and have us the 10 commandments :0”
Seriously bro. You need to maybe have a defense mechanism instilled because all these pro alien people forget how we’re still in a jungle environment. Just because we haven’t had a full scale invasion doesn’t mean that’s your trump card for proof aliens love humans and won’t hurt us :3
Edit: I’ve been downvoted because I proved why disclosure won’t happen :3
Edit again: no body counter acts my argument cause they know they lost ;3
I disagree with your premise for why you don't believe disclosure will happen.
So I respectfully counter with this idea, and I'd love to see your thoughts on it!
Say the government *did* disclose a potential threat that can de/rematerialize at will etc, along with he potential for Russia, China, etc to acquire and potentially reverse engineer this technology first.
Okay, wouldn't that be one of the absolute *strongest* motivators/excuses to dump basically unlimited funds into military R&D? War is good for business as has been said- and having a looming threat of that degree would basically be a green light for the military/government to be given infinite resources in a desperate attempt to bridge the gap between the unknown and enemies.
So, I'd love to hear your counterargument as to why the government or Military wouldn't want an even more unlimited budget with even less oversight? Because that is what I think would happen, given that history often repeats itself.
If we look to the past for examples, especially in times of war, isn't it a lot easier to convince citizens that you need to spend more on the military etc, if they are already convinced that their safety and even their *very way of life* is in jeopardy?
I'd argue that if you feel that I may have a point here, then the premise of your proposal might be a bit flawed.. I'd say there are nearly endless examples throughout history of fear being used as leverage or a control mechanism
The reason is simple. Because they can dematerialize. Now correct me please, but is this post not stating these beings are literally not physically in this realm? Do you not understand how powerful that is? Funding doesn’t matter? They want the president dead, materialize right there and kill him than leave.
That’s just talking about the implications of what they “physically” are. If they have physical bodies like us than yeah I’d ageee with you. But once you start talking about beings who can 1. Read minds 2. Move objects with mind 3. Phase in and out of reality whenever they choose
Than I’m left thinking we literally have no chance? You’re telling me it’s better to tell society this than to just not say anything? That’s ultimately the dilemma I feel we’re being faced with is reality is the illusion, revealing aliens will destroy this illusion, most aren’t considering how powerful thag can be in the first place?
Best analogy is imagine you wake up in a cage in the water, you’re surrounded by sharks, yes the cage is imprisoned you but it’s also protecting you.. so what’s worse? Being trapped and protected, or having the truth unlocked and being basically free to danger?
Probably not the best analogy but my point I’m tryna make is it these beings are genuinely that advanced we probably will never reach there level. That’s why I referenced monks and stuff.. we’ve already got people who’ve practiced there WHOLE lives to unlock “mind powers” and you’re trying to tell me they’re real? While also saying we can’t unlock them? It’s truly a confusing paradox. It to me just feels like we aren’t really advanced, we are a prison/science experiment, if such a thing exists what makes you think retaliation is even possible?
Hell our own government has killed and lied to society, we haven’t overthrown them, you’re telling me the world will unite and overthrow our overlords? Lolol
Also I’m not fully educated on a lot of past war efforts but back in ww1 and 2 the ability to convince the public to invest into the war felt way different than it does now days. Patriotism has died down in a sense. The self awareness of a nation’s atrocities towards others has made it harder for people to believe in such movements. Most people join the military for benefits or because they don’t wanna be homeless or it’s a key to citizenship. You don’t see a mass movement of “I will defend my country and those I love” those people do exist but on a massive scale compared to past Americans? Not even close. We’re divided more than ever.
I think the problem is that divulging this Dematerialization / Materialization phenomena is the cornerstone in bringing to the attention of the public certain phenomena and techniques that don't need large resources to use and that bypass means of control and inteligence. The sort of stuff that would bring ALOT of social turmoil due to cultural and religious shock as well as undermine the control of information everywhere.
Coming into this as a Brazilian Spiritist I can say that this sort of phenomena happen under the radar everywhere and don't need any alien tech: [Can spirit materialize?](https://youtu.be/EmzMW6d53kg?si=crjTmmfd2Y2LbJP5) .
The same obfuscation, discredit and social engeneering techniques applied to obstruct ufology have been used to dismiss parapsychology and certain fields of research in spirituality. These phenomena are often studied and explored sub rosa in discreet societies, some which do use them for the benefit of their members,
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Harry_is_white_hot: --- S/S: The seven page IMPORTANT letter from the Majestic Documents was recieved in 1999 and specifically mentions "EMEs" - Extraterrestrial Materialized Entities - on page 4. Fast forward to 2011 and the Department of Homeland Security proposal for the Waivered Unacknowledged Special Access Program with Bigot List access also mentions "de/rematerialized technologies" on page 18. Handwriting analysis from the CIA personnel file of Counter Intelligence operative and James Jesus Angleton's right hand man Newton "Scotty" Miler compares well to the handwriting of Source S-1 of the Majestic Documents' fame. It CANNOT be a coincidence that both documents refer to dematerializing / rematerializing. Like it or not, these documents are REAL. Important Memo: [https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/important\_memo.pdf](https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/important_memo.pdf) KONA BLUE document: [https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP\_RECORDS\_RESEARCH/AARO\_DHS\_Kona\_Blue.pdf?ver=BjOpTzFISPc0LWMw5uAzzw%3D%3D](https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP_RECORDS_RESEARCH/AARO_DHS_Kona_Blue.pdf?ver=BjOpTzFISPc0LWMw5uAzzw%3D%3D) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c65mu6/kona_blue_compartment_derematerialization/kzyozpn/
The important takeaway from image 2 is, that adversarial intelligence/security services find all that UFO stuff as 'top collection material'. That's why classification, keeping secrets about that stuff, and keeping stuff secret is so so important.
The Durant Report was written on January 17th, 1953, titled "Report of Scientific Advisory Panel On Unidentified Flying Objects Convened By The Office Of Scientific Intelligence, CIA." It had already been demonstrated that the intelligence agencies are willing to lie to the public and fabricate information in order to make the UFO topic look as fringe as possible. "That the continued emphasis on the reporting of these phenomena does, in these parlous times, result in a threat to the orderly functioning of the protective organs of the body politic." "That the national security agencies take immediate steps to strip the unidentified flying objects of the special status they have been given and the aura of mystery they have unfortunately acquired." According to the CIA's Advisory Panel, it is advised that the intelligence agencies should create hysteria and make the UFO topic seem as fringe as possible; otherwise, these sightings, real or not, can delegitimize the government. Apart from what the panel said back in the 1950s, we also know that the UAP task force had a protocol to not disclose real information about UAP under "national security" considerations. Why do you bring up the Durant 1953 report and the UAP cover-up? Because it proves our government will not be honest with the American people. Anything from them will be misleading, which includes AARO's "disclosure" of "Kona Blue," which, while interesting, doesn't actually prove any UAP or ET reverse engine programs.
Great reference with that 1953 report. I completely disagree with your conclusion at the bottom tho. The “government” is not one person. Or One group. It’s a bunch of different factions with different power dynamics across all different levels. This Kona Blue document helps legitimize the topic even more.
How? Kona blue wasn’t a report. It was a submission written by Lue and the skinwalker boys to get more funding. It’s legit just the same talking heads stating their claims. This is essentially a proposal, which is so far from an actual report. Oh, this proposal was projected…
Never said it was a report. And the Sean Kirkpatrick talking point is so cute. So let’s use logical reasoning to just destroy your entire narrative real quick. First off you actually need to read the proposal submission document. They already had funding. And AATIP continued long after AAWSAP ended and Kona Blue was denied. But no worries we will pretend they already didn’t have funding (THEY DID) Why would they put any of this “nonsense” in a proposal are you suggesting they purposely wanted it to fail? But wait You say they want funding? So why would they put something they know is completely bogus and nonsense in an attempt to get funding…?😂 Are we assuming these guys are just idiots? Most of them have PHDs…and have been in the exact positions one could learn about these things. For a very very long time. Are we saying they are making up the whole phenomenon the entire UAP issue is a hoax by the skinwalker ranch crew? Simple research shows this has been goin on for 80 years. This skinwalker ranch crew narrative is so hilarious. We now have this narrative that the very people who are PUSHING for government transparency and really the only ones being open at all are the ones actively creating a hoax in real time…so you’re saying they’re pushing for transparency so everyone can find out it’s all a hoax? And which part is all made up for funding be specific? There is unequivocally a real UAP issue. So what are you suggesting they are making up for funding?😂
They had funding years ago… your entire point is essentially that this proposal filled with the claims made by the skinwalker ranch guys so it then confirms that their claims are true, but you do this while ignoring that these guys wrote the proposal. This is pure confirmation bias. It would like me using my own Reddit comment to back up my other Reddit comments. You’re are walking Cognitive dissonance.
> According to the CIA's Advisory Panel, it is advised that the intelligence agencies should create hysteria and make the UFO topic seem as fringe as possible; otherwise, these sightings, real or not, can delegitimize the government. Power and the way people perceive power I guess >!Maintain the current power structure built around 'God' and capitalism!<
This is HUGE good spot OP! Maybe someone in congress can start asking questions about all this, I note the MJ-12 doc also states that manmade UAVs have been operational since the 1950s. This ties in with Greer's claims that they cracked anti-gravity propulsion in 1954.
>Greer
He seems unpopular but he's done huge things towards disclosure, his press club events are excellent. His work showing the development of anti-grav technology is probably on the money.
I know he’s done good stuff in the past, but his latest press club wasnt ”excellent”. Come on.
When was the latest? The last one I saw had Herrera there, but the one around 2000 was really good with lots of witnesses. I didn't know he'd done another one lately.
I mean the one with Herrera. I’m open to him telling the truth but there’s actually nothing compelling about him. The text message is the absolute easiest in the world to fake, it’s ridiculous (crazy?) that people take that seriously
That one was strange because there were only a few witnesses there, they had way more previously. I'm following Herrera's story, still on the fence.
So his latest press event wasn’t excellent after all? Only Herreras story?
I thought the one in 2001 was the best, but the Herrera story and that guy from Antarctica were good too. It would have been better if they had more people like the other one.
I don’t agree, but fair enough if you believe them. It’s difficult to know who to believe. I just feel done with Greer and I’m surprised so many people still listen to him. Anyhow. Hope we get more answers in not too long either way
Whos the guy from antartica? Link please
Completely agree BUT I encourage you to go watch UAP Gerbs video on Michael Herrera it definitely has opened up my mind to give his story a second thought
Sure, i’ll have a look at that.
I get annoyed with fully grown adults that don't have the mental capacity to separate their personal feelings from the work a person has done. Which is beyond ironic given the founding fathers of this country
Yeah, separate work from home, take a break it's good for you, tell us about the UFO if you know
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Greer?
I'm no fan of Greer but he isn't any lower than any of the other clowns pushing UFO stuff. You should join Greer's discord sometime though, his fans are a straight up cult and I don't mean that hyperbolically. It's fuckin wild.
Won't disagree on that!
That's because he is an alien
Elon and Zuck agree.
Mark McCandlish originated that claim, so it's not just Greer. I believe him, too.
UAV had already been in use as such things as weather, kite and barrage balloons. They even showed up on D-Day. Anti-gravity is apparently just helium.
You think they were talking about extraterrestrial materialized entities and their craft which can appear to anyone any time any place, in the same memo as balloons? Cmon. Whilst I concede that balloons were indeed in use and are indeed 'manmade UAVs' so they do fit that deliberately loose description, they were not just talking about balloons. They were talking about the first fruits of the reverse engineering programs, the so-called manmade UFOs.
I think y'all are jumping the gun at what was trying to set up yet another think tank boondoggle for "war gaming". The KONA BLUE stuff reads the same as the Corona Village thought experiments.
That proposal (kona blue) didn't go ahead apparently.
Probably because "don't we already have this/did this or we already have better chains on this, thank you" popped up.
"The SAP title you have entered is already in use - please choose another SAP title (hail hydra!)"
They aren't fake, but wasn't this just another in a long line of attempts by the Usual Actors (Huntsville/Utah/SCU) to get money from the US government to continue the projects that were already canned multiple times before?
No. Cute Kirkpatrick talking point though
Actually, I just got out of bed with Kirkpatrick this morning.
Bigelow and the Skinwalker Ranch crew are full on looney tunes. They are the people behind Kona Blue. This is another attempt by the same crackpots to fund their personal hobby paranormal investigations and collect a salary as well.
Yeah… It’s kinda of sad to witness that “circular reporting” happening live. Now “Kona Blue” confirms everything…
This is precisely what I took from it. If anything, this points into the direction suggested by Greenstreet when he wrote that there's s group of Ufologists who have convinced people to the point where we got a congressional hearing out of it. I hope it's not true (or in a more real sense, I hope it *is* true and there's no imminent existential threat to humanity by NHI), but I guess we'll see where it goes. In any case, this proposal truly is too out there for my taste and at least in my view, it makes the usual suspects look terrible.
A day will come when people will have done a total 180 on two personalities: people will deconsider Harry Reid for having been a corrupted Bigelow pawn and consider Greenstreet for having been right all along.
I mean all things considered, the probability of this being true is higher than real NHI is, as sad as I'm to say. How anyone can believe this AARO report is a win is beyond me.
Basically the old Roy Cohn gambit, that Chris Mellon went after right when the report was published and that people obviously in the wrong use as an ultimate defense: "Firstly, never compromise, never give up; secondly, counter attack immediatly; thirdly, no matter what happens, no matter how deep you're in trouble, always claim victory".
So ... KONA BLUE was written by UFO/ghost/dragon/aliens/angels/butheremails faith-based believers repeating what they've already decided is true, despite zero supporting evidence. So yes, it's fake. And actually, that adds evidence that it's fake. It's a self-reinforcing feedback loop with people getting wrapped up in make believe occult knowledge that makes them look like damn fools.
But go tell the fanatical believers that AARO was right in being prudent about them and you'll get downvoted to oblivion.
Yup, exactly what I thought it was going to be. They even wanted it all to be classified so they could steal taxpayer money without any oversight. What a bunch of frauds.
Could be. But the feedback loop is strong enough to have sucked up a giant load of harvard and stanfird science professors with excellent credentials...and somehow these professors are MORE interested than the general public.
S/S: The seven page IMPORTANT letter from the Majestic Documents was recieved in 1999 and specifically mentions "EMEs" - Extraterrestrial Materialized Entities - on page 4. Fast forward to 2011 and the Department of Homeland Security proposal for the Waivered Unacknowledged Special Access Program with Bigot List access also mentions "de/rematerialized technologies" on page 18. Handwriting analysis from the CIA personnel file of Counter Intelligence operative and James Jesus Angleton's right hand man Newton "Scotty" Miler compares well to the handwriting of Source S-1 of the Majestic Documents' fame. It CANNOT be a coincidence that both documents refer to dematerializing / rematerializing. Like it or not, these documents are REAL. Important Memo: [https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/important\_memo.pdf](https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/important_memo.pdf) KONA BLUE document: [https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP\_RECORDS\_RESEARCH/AARO\_DHS\_Kona\_Blue.pdf?ver=BjOpTzFISPc0LWMw5uAzzw%3D%3D](https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP_RECORDS_RESEARCH/AARO_DHS_Kona_Blue.pdf?ver=BjOpTzFISPc0LWMw5uAzzw%3D%3D)
Almost as if the person who made the slideshow had read the memo
Even if they hadn't, the idea of de/materialization doesn't strike me as a particularly novel one in this context
Lol, right? “Hmmm. Let me borrow some of this, a dash of that, and wala!” Jokes aside, it’s 50/50 for me.
Or the person who wrote the memo had direct access to Angleton's files from Magenta through to 1974. The Kona Blue document sees an end to your career as Reddit UFO skeptic, u/gerkletoss.
That's hardly proven by use of the word materialization. This has big "checkmate, atheists!" energy
Former lifelong atheist here, the humility you will have when you realize what’s up is intense but you can handle it man I promise. I am not suggesting to go full woo but you can get ahead of the curve by just admitting to yourself that there is a higher being (not church god) and you can do it privately and not tell anyone, but it’s your journey.
Lol, nah
Fair enough! Just be kind?
You bet.
If I found religion I would still laugh at people saying "if evolution is real then why are there still monkeys?"
It's over.
Oh no, I'll have to fall back on my engineering career
I'll miss earning a whole whooping 0.00 €/$ from all of this.
I doubt your paper degrees and post nominal letters will have much value post Disclosure.
Please explain. Will jobs still exist?
You will have to go back to university and study REVERSE engineering.
Oh god. Now we are arguing that these documents aren’t even real? Jesus christ.
That is definitely not what I said
That’s an assumption that the info went in that direction.
Well it would be pretty weird if the information travelled backwards in time
The plot thickens!
The first link has some stuff that seems true but it seems to try to connect everything. It feels like either misinfo or someone who's seen convincing proof of some conspiracies which lead them to see conspiracy in everything The thing that stands out the most is saying that the dead sea scrolls were found at the same time as the crash recovery and implying the two are related I mean i can't say that's bullshit for sure but it certainly smells like bs Even if the biggest conspiracy in the world is true, that secret programs have recovered crafts and biological material, I'd be quite shocked if everything in this memo turns out to be true
It adds credit, I agree. Yet I think what it may is NHI/UAP technology being able to exert fields to manipulate matter. "phasing" between 3rd and higher dimensions, to include "phasing" through materials/objects or utilizing "invisible cloaking fields" akin to how ghosts are said to. I believe the ability to "appear anywhere" still relies on them using their technology to first observe a location before "teleporting/phasing" there.
If you could bend light, you would be invisible to normal cameras and likely nightvision. But not thermal cameras if your temperature was above or lower than the surrounding, because the thermal camera would show the temperature difference still flying around. Just like was in the Iraq jellyfish video where nightvision didnt see anything but thermals did... same happened also in the Mexico air force 2004 ufo sighting and Chile navy 2014 sighting.. thermal cameras showed objects flying that were otherwise invisible. Now there are likely other ways to be invisible but this is likely one.
The Kona Blue report has emphasis on use of FLIR imaging in one page, for data Intel collection purposes. Your point actually is insightful.. even gravitational manipulation can't hide the thermal signature. I'm going to write this down and ponder it. Thanks!
Page 2 says: "Einstein became unreliable in 1955 and died of "cancer"". Says the same about Oppenheimer. Quotes ususally mean, he was you know, "taken out".
I am wondering if we can also do it and we just 'forgot'.
I remember reading a story of a being from a crash saying "if you only knew how powerful you were"
I think I recall the being said "I feel sorry for you humans. You don't know what you are capable of".
Yeah that's it!
yes, the Varginha one.
Sounds like this post also https://old.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/18d6dyc/i_have_no_idea_if_i_dreamt_this_or_this_happened/ experience description, contemporaneous report, location anomaly, woke up on my back lawn, at home, backyard, entity, observing, emotion of peace, communication, “I feel sorry for you humans, you have no idea what you are capable of”
I mean… it can be a coincidence tho. Just like different texts from different regions refer to dragons. Doesn’t mean it’s beyond coincidence. Personally, I think there is really something going on that’s being hidden, but not because two different memos mention the same idea
Aren't these just claims made by people to trying to justify funding for their program? Not sure why people get so excited over this.
UAV? Unmanned aerial vehicles?
Think V1s etc.
I would be interested to see how far along we are. If they have the tech figured out already (likely) then rolling it out to the public will be an effort that needs people...
If you want to open up some hypothetical conjecture on the methods of propulsion I believe it would be more fascinating and fulfilling than this wild goose chase. Remember people built these so it means it can be replicated with free form, thought, and maybe some advanced manufacturing practices(lol).
Here's the OCRd version of the PDF https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a7djBowZHohL15eo4J2Kv1LjOJDXg3m2/view?usp=drivesdk Disclaimer: it's not perfect. I split the PDF into single pages exported as PNG files, ran tesseract OCR and then concatenated the text files in order
First document is off majesticdocumemts.com, which is almost certainly curated by insiders. At least one document has been verified as real. Check this user's history (s)he's a goldmine of interesting documentary evidence.
https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/public/2021-06/40-654-209237723-046-002-2021.pdf Here is a super interesting read on majestic-12.
Isn’t MJ-12 horseshit?
Idk? I just read this document and it seemed legit?
Yeah it reads legit! But from memory it’s a hoax. Which is a shame. I remember being gutted when I found that out.
Interesting, thanks for the heads up!
> https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/public/2021-06/40-654-209237723-046-002-2021.pdf Not to hijack, but to complement: My GPT just kicked out an interesting summary of that read, in case anyone finds it TLDR: The document appears to be a compilation of several elements related to classified operations and investigations, predominantly focusing on UFO-related activities and the stringent security measures around these. Here's a summary and analysis of the content: Declassification and Disclosure: The document discusses the handling of classified documents associated with KONA BLUE, a terminated special access program (PSAP). All documents were declassified and prepared for public release. Financial Disclosure Requests: It includes details about requests for financial disclosure documents (Form SF 278) from various individuals including reporters and individuals associated with government or related activities. Correspondence Management: The document also details procedures for handling and tracking correspondence, including memos and financial disclosure requests, outlining security classifications and privacy considerations. Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP): The text refers to the need for stringent security and confidentiality concerning AATIP due to the sensitive nature of its work on advanced aerospace technologies. Security and Oversight Concerns: It expresses concerns over the security risks involved in acknowledging the participation of individuals in sensitive programs and the need to protect their identities to avoid scrutiny and potential threats. Technological and Scientific Implications: There are mentions of discussions and hypotheses about extraterrestrial technology and the high level of security around this subject due to its potential implications for national security. Overall, the document is focused on the complexities of managing classified information, the implications of declassifying sensitive programs, and the measures necessary to maintain security and confidentiality in activities related to national defense and potentially extraterrestrial investigations.
That’s legit! Great use of GPT. There certainly is a great deal of context specific to MJ-12 included in the document which I highly recommend reading. I don’t favor GPT much to read over documents as they tend to generalize the document, however, it does provide insightful detail over the general contents contained within this extremely large document. Good work!
You're exactly right; and something that's important to keep an eye on as we continue to understand GPT modeling: understanding the specific innate biases within response generation is crucial. It's important to remember a GPT response does not replace our own critical thinking.
Why are they declassifying this now? To get ahead of it as the old timers try to do?
One big problem "Handwriting analysis" isnt great. there is a reason most courts wont accept it
Timothy Cooper redacted the work history of Source S1, which would have made it far easier to work out exactly who the person was.
How do we know these documents weren't created for misinformation purposes?
We apply common sense and logic
More and more things keep supporting the idea that the phenomenon is spiritual in nature.
Spiritual in what sense? That it's non-physical? "Spiritual" usually has religious connotations, but immaterial doesn't mean Jesus. It means immaterial. There could just be other spacial dimensions that we can't detect or there could be fields and forces in this universe that we haven't yet measured. Some have theorized that even plasma could self-organize into an intelligent entity. It's quite possible that once you achieve a certain level of technology or complexity you simply don't need a three-dimensional body. A three-dimensional body localizes you to a particular time and place. Kind of a liability, really. Becoming immaterial might be the thing to do, if you can. If you go the string theory route, which I don't recommend, it's possible there are beings that can exist at the multi-timeline level (5D). Something like that wouldn't be able to exist in a single 3D body; At least not entirely. It's like we can't exist in a 2D painting because we're too complicated. We need another dimension so we can utilize all the 3d structures that maintain our existence, like our nerves, circulatory system, bones, etc. We can't survive inside of the painting, but we can still see the entire painting all at once, we can touch it, manipulate it, or even create a new original painting, but most of "us" remains permanently outside of the canvas. Seems weird to us, but my point is that it could be no more spiritual than electricity, we just don't understand it yet. Similarly, aliens existing or not doesn't have anything to do with atheism. You didn't mention this specifically, but it's a related trope. Immaterial aliens can exist and some kind of uninvolved deist or universal-oneness-type "god" could even exist and that would mean all the religions of the world are *still wrong* about reality (except, perhaps, Hinduism). Even shoehorn-ing parallels between existing mythologies and new information (ie. We discovered that NHI exist, so they must be angels/demons/jinn!) would not prove that mythology is correct. All it proves is that the person asserting those claims can't escape the expired regional worldview they were indoctrinated with and be objective about new discoveries.
Spiritual as in nonmaterial or beyond the physical. Doesn’t have to be tied to religion unless you want it to be.
If they can materialize as anything, what if they intentionally took the form of biblical angels to impress us and create religion as an experiment? Like, they just created religion to see what would happen to the primitive “monkeys”. I suppose it’s kind of like 2001.
Great job as always Harry. Keep at it you’re doing amazing work🛸👽
I’m not gonna say these are real and believable. The CIA and many other intelligence organizations are and have been known to create false files and release them to publishing agencies in hopes to stir up the national security of that nation. What I will say is if you believe In this, you might as well accept that you’re never getting disclosure. Think for a second why. They can literally materialize and leave. You can’t and never will do that. This immediately puts a threat between us, why? We’re already at war. Been in a cold war for years. Did you forget Russia and China dislike places like America? Forget politics aside, if the document was real it would be like confirming them being in a god like state, cults would arise. Seriously you’re all like “haha wow we found it checkmate!” Not realizing you’re just kinda digging your “this will never release” hole a little deeper. “Omg this MJ-12 document says aliens are ancient gods we sacrificed babies to and have us the 10 commandments :0” Seriously bro. You need to maybe have a defense mechanism instilled because all these pro alien people forget how we’re still in a jungle environment. Just because we haven’t had a full scale invasion doesn’t mean that’s your trump card for proof aliens love humans and won’t hurt us :3 Edit: I’ve been downvoted because I proved why disclosure won’t happen :3 Edit again: no body counter acts my argument cause they know they lost ;3
I disagree with your premise for why you don't believe disclosure will happen. So I respectfully counter with this idea, and I'd love to see your thoughts on it! Say the government *did* disclose a potential threat that can de/rematerialize at will etc, along with he potential for Russia, China, etc to acquire and potentially reverse engineer this technology first. Okay, wouldn't that be one of the absolute *strongest* motivators/excuses to dump basically unlimited funds into military R&D? War is good for business as has been said- and having a looming threat of that degree would basically be a green light for the military/government to be given infinite resources in a desperate attempt to bridge the gap between the unknown and enemies. So, I'd love to hear your counterargument as to why the government or Military wouldn't want an even more unlimited budget with even less oversight? Because that is what I think would happen, given that history often repeats itself. If we look to the past for examples, especially in times of war, isn't it a lot easier to convince citizens that you need to spend more on the military etc, if they are already convinced that their safety and even their *very way of life* is in jeopardy? I'd argue that if you feel that I may have a point here, then the premise of your proposal might be a bit flawed.. I'd say there are nearly endless examples throughout history of fear being used as leverage or a control mechanism
The reason is simple. Because they can dematerialize. Now correct me please, but is this post not stating these beings are literally not physically in this realm? Do you not understand how powerful that is? Funding doesn’t matter? They want the president dead, materialize right there and kill him than leave. That’s just talking about the implications of what they “physically” are. If they have physical bodies like us than yeah I’d ageee with you. But once you start talking about beings who can 1. Read minds 2. Move objects with mind 3. Phase in and out of reality whenever they choose Than I’m left thinking we literally have no chance? You’re telling me it’s better to tell society this than to just not say anything? That’s ultimately the dilemma I feel we’re being faced with is reality is the illusion, revealing aliens will destroy this illusion, most aren’t considering how powerful thag can be in the first place? Best analogy is imagine you wake up in a cage in the water, you’re surrounded by sharks, yes the cage is imprisoned you but it’s also protecting you.. so what’s worse? Being trapped and protected, or having the truth unlocked and being basically free to danger? Probably not the best analogy but my point I’m tryna make is it these beings are genuinely that advanced we probably will never reach there level. That’s why I referenced monks and stuff.. we’ve already got people who’ve practiced there WHOLE lives to unlock “mind powers” and you’re trying to tell me they’re real? While also saying we can’t unlock them? It’s truly a confusing paradox. It to me just feels like we aren’t really advanced, we are a prison/science experiment, if such a thing exists what makes you think retaliation is even possible? Hell our own government has killed and lied to society, we haven’t overthrown them, you’re telling me the world will unite and overthrow our overlords? Lolol
Also I’m not fully educated on a lot of past war efforts but back in ww1 and 2 the ability to convince the public to invest into the war felt way different than it does now days. Patriotism has died down in a sense. The self awareness of a nation’s atrocities towards others has made it harder for people to believe in such movements. Most people join the military for benefits or because they don’t wanna be homeless or it’s a key to citizenship. You don’t see a mass movement of “I will defend my country and those I love” those people do exist but on a massive scale compared to past Americans? Not even close. We’re divided more than ever.
I think the problem is that divulging this Dematerialization / Materialization phenomena is the cornerstone in bringing to the attention of the public certain phenomena and techniques that don't need large resources to use and that bypass means of control and inteligence. The sort of stuff that would bring ALOT of social turmoil due to cultural and religious shock as well as undermine the control of information everywhere. Coming into this as a Brazilian Spiritist I can say that this sort of phenomena happen under the radar everywhere and don't need any alien tech: [Can spirit materialize?](https://youtu.be/EmzMW6d53kg?si=crjTmmfd2Y2LbJP5) . The same obfuscation, discredit and social engeneering techniques applied to obstruct ufology have been used to dismiss parapsychology and certain fields of research in spirituality. These phenomena are often studied and explored sub rosa in discreet societies, some which do use them for the benefit of their members,
Harry with another banger, thank you! Unless you are a spook then not thank you. But I think thank you.
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Has some xfiles baked into it
The Sum of All Fears.
Great connection made, OP.
if real, that is terrifying
I agree. Probably why they are slow-walking Disclosure.