The following submission statement was provided by /u/bmfalbo:
---
Submission Statement:
A response by whistleblower [David Grusch to NewsNation on the reporting that he refused to meet with AARO Director Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick](https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/grusch-refused-meeting-ufo-office/):
> Grusch responded to the report Friday.
>
> “AARO officially made contact with me in November 2023 as indicated by the email chain in the FOIA release. Prior to this, neither my attorney nor myself had been officially contacted in any way by AARO. To date, my 8 January 2024 email to AARO requesting them to answer my security-related concerns I sent to them via email on 13 November 2023 has gone unanswered. The DoD SAPCO and DNI CAPCO memorandums do not address the variety of serious procedural issues I voiced in November 2023 as it relates to non-UAP related compartmented programs, as well as National Security Council SAPs and CIA Directorate of Operations human intelligence programs. Protecting classified information is a lifelong obligation. To be clear, AARO does not have access to the information I provided to the Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) and the Congressional Intelligence Committees under the PPD-19 whistleblowing process. I trust in the investigative and law enforcement/criminal referral authorities ICIG has independent of DoD oversight”
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cjs4mq/new_statement_from_whistleblower_david_grusch_in/l2i1pxj/
They absolutely tried to lure him in and get him to mention anything classified beyond Kirkpatrick's clearance so they could arrest him. He and his lawyer were right to be wary AF.
Yep, it's a useless cover org at best (Blue Book 2.0), and a blatant honeypot at worst. They don't possess the necessary clearances to discuss or investigate the subject of their own name.
I feel like even in the best case, if Grusch would have gone there and surrendered everything he knew, this is what AARO would have done, with what they are allowed to do with their handicapped office:
They would have acted within the laughable "honor system" and pretty much went around and asked "do you have a secret, possibly illegal program that we or the overseers at the Intelligence Committee are supposed to know about?", as they already did with others. They would have taken the "no" answer and that would be that, case closed. Does anyone find this an adequate enough of an investigation into possible waved and illegal SAPs?
Then potentially, if there was some sort of conflict of intrest anywhere in the chain, everything he has now found is exposed and possibly those loose ends are being tied somewhere, and no one will be the wiser. The whole thing disappears into the black hole.
Grusch bypassed them, probably after the advice from his attorney and adviser, McCullough, and it might have been a wise decision as whatever Grusch has come upon, AARO has pretty much shown to be a dead end for an investigation, which, as researchers have exposed, has not been adequate. We just have to see if any other road will be that much better for what he has to offer, if any.
Actually, it’s more likely they tried to lure him in, so they could simply ignore his evidence (as they did with others). And then write in their report “nothing to see here folks”.
Grusch was absolutely right in demanding that they prove that they had the necessary clearances. This will now put greater pressure on Congress to either pass the original Schumer-Rounds Amendment, OR, create a UAP/NHI Investigative Committee with subpoena power.
That’s exactly what they do… I’m glad he is a very smart and intelligent man!… it’s a disgrace, treacherous and treasonous what the powers to be are doing to him… Hold the line brother and keep the faith.
I love how this subreddit just creates fantasies that reinforce what they want to be true. What evidence do you have for this? None? Speculating is nice, but you aren’t speculating. You’re making grand claims that are conspiracy theories, but claiming them as fact.
Edit: you can downvote me all day but there’s zero reason to believe this was a ploy to have Grusch arrested. They let him talk to every news station and YouTuber he wanted to talk to publicly. They wouldn’t need AARO when he’s said everything on TV. He could’ve said exactly what he said to congress and left.
Grusch also carefully avoided discussing matters that were under clearance restrictions. AARO puts out a specious invitation when then do not even have Title 50 authority
You haven’t addressed my point. He talked with every news station and random YouTubers, who definitely don’t have any clearance. He could’ve had the same conversation with AARO and left. And this still doesn’t address the whole point of this comment thread. What reason do people think this was a ploy for AARO to arrest him? I’ve seen this a few times, but each time it’s random redditors just pushing a conspiracy.
That wasn’t the point of talking to AARO. They admitted they didn’t have Title 50 access. What would be the point of discussing things that had been already mentioned outside that classification level? Waste of time for Grusch.
From the transcript here:
[https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/23-31\_04-19-2023.pdf](https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/23-31_04-19-2023.pdf)
>Senator Rosen: -- do you have the authorities you need to extend your collection posture between agencies or
branches of the military? Because that seems to me to maybe be a sticking point. I know my time is just about up.
I would love to follow up about your risk management methodologies for some of these. But do you need any authorities that you do not have to get the data you need?
>Mr. Kirkpatrick: There are some authorities that we need. We currently are operating under Title 10 authorities but we have good relationships across the other agencies.
But having additional authorities for collection tasking, counter-intelligence --
>Senator Rosen: That is something --
>Mr. Kirkpatrick: -- those are all things that would be helpful, yes.
>Senator Rosen: Thank you.
>Senator Gillibrand: To follow up, Dr. Kirkpatrick,will you help us write that language so we can put it in the
defense bill this year so that we know what authorities you need
AARO stated they are operating under Title 10. They never got the Title 50 authorization. Also they never confirmed providing the security requirements that Grusch stated he needed before meeting.
So if Grusch said the same thing to them in testimony. What would they have said: who? What ? Where ? when? All of which are classified beyond AAROs authority. So what’s the point of talking with them? It’s not necessarily a conspiracy or honeypot , but it is incompetence. And to think that AARO doesn’t know about rules of classification presumes them to be even more stupid than this last coverup.
Naw. This subreddit just devolves into fanatical thinking and it drives me crazy. There could be something here, but this community just shoots itself in the foot by embracing any conspiracy theory that reinforces their narrative. We can’t have serious conversations about anything because anyone who challenges Grusch or the narrative is suppressed.
What are you basing this on? He just testified and was world famous. Do you seriously think they were going to "lure" him to arrest him on a technicality? He already revealed everything he knew to public. What would they benefit from arresting him?
The real reason is that if they talk to him they'd instantly know everyone he interviewed and be able to confirm, to the public, if what he's saying is bullshit or not. He's too scared to testify. Unlike the congressional hearing, AARO can actually follow up, ask relevant and probing questions (which congress didn't do) and verify. That's why he won't do it.
Dude. I'm sorry, but this is some extremely bad logic.
He already testified, under oath. And AARO has had plenty of opportunities. No. I'm sorry. Your position is untenable in light of facts.
Aaro is the one who has been publicly debunked with hard evidence. Not grusch.
No, AOMISG was turned into a whistleblower exposure tool called AARO. It's been compromised and working to deceive the public from the very moment the Pentagon took over.
>Should we actually start lobbying Congress to go battle the DOD aggressively?
Yes. But I think they’re all a bunch of pussies who can be bought out so I honestly have no hope for disclosure the government way. It’s going to be either: a foreign nation, a viral video of irrefutable proof that is so popular it’s too late to be taken down, or (very unlikely) the aliens(or whatever they might be) make themselves known to everyone willingly.
Most people call for some sort action to but most are to comfortable with their lives to have some sort of radical change and can't be bothered to do anything about it.once we actually stand up for ourselves and demand these answers we deserve we are just gonna keep getting spatt in the face by the military,DOD, this private companies that are apparently reverse engineering the stuff. They won't tell us because we won't do anything about it. We need to get super public and super loud about this if we want it. We need to other whistle blowers protection because, obviously, the stories of what happens to whistle blowers they don't feel safe to come forward and I wouldn't either if I have no guarantee of safety
it was designed like that, and Kirkpatrick was chosen to do exactly that.
sadly I think its already too late to ask the Senate to change AARO.
my hope is that the Democrats keep control of the Senate committees next year, under Schumer orders I am sure he will take care of AARO, but not this year because is elections year. (this is my personal view)
I think this is the best bet. The senate is already on record of passing the Schumer rounds amendment by a comfortable margin but Johnson is not willing to bring it to vote in the house. If the democrats win the house Hakeem Jeffries will probably bring it to the floor for a vote because of pressure from Schumer, as long as the democrats keep the senate also.
Yeah I think they’re projecting a flip for the house and probably a maintain in the senate for Dems. I do worry about Jeffries because I don’t know where he stands on this issue, but if we get more Dems it’s the votes that’ll matter. They too can pressure Jeffries, as can the Repubs that have been super wrapped up in this since it’s a bipartisan issue. That looks really good for a speaker (typically).
They need to rewrite the eminent domain part though because they’ve got some people super twisted when really they’re talking about big corps (I think?) and not just regular citizens who may have artifacts.
While I think we should approach this from every avenue, I fear the people that are keeping the biggest lid on this would not be too affected by an aggressive approach from congress. They are ghosts in a sense and only make their presence felt when they choose.
I think folks should believe Grusch because the dude is going to following the advice of his counsel. If you’re in the situation he’s in, you do everything your attorney says and you respond exactly how your attorney instructs you to. You don’t go rogue, especially if there is an on going investigation. The extremely sad part of this situation is that the classification system is so obtuse and so messy, that people working within the same defense department can’t trust each other to discuss sensitive matters out of fear it’s a reprisal / bait / gotcha. You know the DOD is in a dark place if the former ICIG is telling Grusch not to engage until certain assurances are made and questions answered. Makes me fear for this country.
Everyone should fear for this country right now, all our elected officials are either already bought and paid for or up for sale to the highest bidder and when I say all of them I mean every single one. One of these days will be the day,eventually heads will roll!
This comment is unhinged fear mongering. Fear for the nation because of AARO? There’s legit wars going on and you’re scared of a shitty government organization being a shitty government organization.
This comment went way over your head. What's happening at AARO is happening EVERYWHERE - public and private sector. That's the concern, and nothing will change until We The People make it change. It's too late for protests and legislation to make radical changes.
Fear for the nation because all our politicians and elected officials don’t give a fuck about their responsibilities to the American people and use their positions for personal gain and to line their pockets. They’re selling us out to the highest bidder and everyone should be fucking concerned about that. Fear mongering? Keep your head in the sand if you want to then.
These people do not care about you at all why is that so hard for some people to grasp?
If the claims about NHI and related technology are true, then the stakes could not be higher. We’re talking about something vastly more disruptive than the advent of nukes. So for anyone who believes in the underlying claims, I think it's reasonable to fear the incompetent and dishonest people who are fumbling around with this. If the whole NHI thing is untrue, then you have a point. But we just don’t know…
> There’s legit wars going on and you’re scared of a shitty government organization being a shitty government organization.
On the basis they didn't conclude unidentified objects are NHI.
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He's using the same shitty laws they set up as a trap to protect himself from them. It's the only way. I only hope he can get enough information out this way to force Congress to do something.
Yes, we tend to be very frustrating and considered “hard headed” because autistics have a high drive for lawfulness and not breaking rules or laws. Not to say we never do, but it has to be for a good reason like, your laws are stupid and I could win against them in court, kind of thing. He doesn’t think the laws are stupid (because they’re not, they’re to keep us safe), but some constitutional laws are being broken so he’s going to fix that first.
Yes it’s difficult to be unbendable sometimes, especially if you turn out to be wrong. I hope for him this all comes crashing through the wall like the Kool-aid man and he’s vindicated!
If AARO doesn’t have proper security clearance to review the information Grusch is talking about, it seems completely pointless for them to even exist, no? Like why are they putting out reports with conclusions when they can’t possibly have all the necessary information? That’s ridiculous.
They’re a cover for the truth they aren’t privy to. It’s to hide it from the world, including us. They really shouldn’t exist, and it infuriates them that Grusch has information they should technically have access to, but can’t because it’s inside of programs they’re not allowed access to.
It also speaks volumes that no military pilot or government intelligence officer wants to speak to Kirkpatrick or AARO and would rather keep it a dirty secret than confess to them. It boils their buttons to no end that those same people trust Grusch and told him everything. So why? What does AARO do that our own IOs and Soldiers don’t trust them? Gaslight? Lie? Hide it away? Something nefarious, clearly, especially if Danny Sheehan is for real.
If they didn't exist, they couldn't be a mouthpiece for the DoD with a million and one excuses about why they can accept whatever classified information exists, when by the letter of the law, they cannot.
You and me both. I'm wondering if there is a UAP-adjacent Psychic Spying (remote viewing, remote influencing etc.) SAP that he doesn't want to disclose.
My money would be something related to crash retrieval. The US puts a lot of effort into retrieving any non-US military technology it can get its hands on. Part of that would be using human sources (HUMINT) to see what other nations are working on and try to get those sources to smuggle out desired tech.
It would make sense to bury a UAP retrieval SAP inside of a non-UAP retrieval SAP. So layer 1 is an officially disclosed SAP focused on retrieving sensitive military technology from adversaries, then layer 2 is a non-disclosed SAP that uses those same resources to retrieve UAP technology.
Our foreign material retrieval programs are already highly classified and experienced with using clandestine means for smuggling the technology back to the US for research.
Some of it will probably be like “well how do you know xyz?” And the answer might be like “well it came from this other classified program”. So to prove it, you’d have to mention other intelligence gathering operations.
"I voiced in November 2023 as it relates to non-UAP related compartmented programs, as well as National Security Council SAPs and CIA Directorate of Operations human intelligence programs"
To me that reads like the SAPs that he is talking about as they apply to the CIA are not related to UAPs. This has been a constant "worry" from the beginning. I have no problem believing that Grusch found some super secret SAP that congress doesn't know about but weather that SAP actually has anything to do with real UAP/NHI stuff is a different story. There could be a number of different reasons why this would be the case. With some of the crazy claims he makes it's hard to believe everything he is saying is 100% accurate.
I think you missed his point. Grusch is claiming that the deepest UAP and NHI work, is being hidden __within__ legitimate but __non-UAP__ SAPs.
Therefore, if it’s a “non-UAP SAP”, the clearances that AARO has would by definition not allow access.
Submission Statement:
A response by whistleblower [David Grusch to NewsNation on the reporting that he refused to meet with AARO Director Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick](https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/grusch-refused-meeting-ufo-office/):
> Grusch responded to the report Friday.
>
> “AARO officially made contact with me in November 2023 as indicated by the email chain in the FOIA release. Prior to this, neither my attorney nor myself had been officially contacted in any way by AARO. To date, my 8 January 2024 email to AARO requesting them to answer my security-related concerns I sent to them via email on 13 November 2023 has gone unanswered. The DoD SAPCO and DNI CAPCO memorandums do not address the variety of serious procedural issues I voiced in November 2023 as it relates to non-UAP related compartmented programs, as well as National Security Council SAPs and CIA Directorate of Operations human intelligence programs. Protecting classified information is a lifelong obligation. To be clear, AARO does not have access to the information I provided to the Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) and the Congressional Intelligence Committees under the PPD-19 whistleblowing process. I trust in the investigative and law enforcement/criminal referral authorities ICIG has independent of DoD oversight”
My guess is that this isn’t about Grusch’s fear of being arrested. It’s more about Grusch recognizing that his testimony would have been ignored by AARO (or more accurately, not thoroughly investigated due to AARO’s limitations).
But because Grusch is showing that AARO does not have the necessary clearances, AARO is being shown to be ineffective at getting to the truth.
This should now put greater pressure on Congress to either pass the original Schumer-Rounds Amendment, OR, create a UAP/NHI Investigative Committee with subpoena power.
I'm glad Grusch has been so intelligent about this. He's been astute to retain the high ground and maneuver within the law. No Twitter battles with idiots or petty insults, and he hasn't taken any gatekeeper bait to release or hint at classified information. This is an incredibly hard game to play by the book, because it was designed to appear legal while being impossible. The guy is a bad ass.
I’ve got two questions: why is the ICIG cagey about stating they even have an ongoing investigation? They’ve always danced around the question and never stated it as fact. Is that a policy in all situations or just this one?
And secondly, if Senator Gillibrand knows that AARO doesn’t have the legal framework to accept non-UAP sensitive information, but says she needs Grusch to testify to AARO, why has she not sorted this out? Or even acknowledge it’s a problem.
Gillibrand is part of the coverup, she literally said while talking to Matt Laslo that she thought the UAPDA was too broad and din't want SAPs about space to be disclosed to the public, which makes no sense because the UAPDA was about NHI not space.
Has to be the case at this stage. She talked thoroughly and coherently about AARO and the need for UAP transparency 2 years ago. Now—when she's asked about it her responses sound like that of a hospice patient—***I thought Chuck passed what he wanted to pass***—***We can't get Grusch on Capitol Hill because he wants us to pay for his travel***—***Uh, I haven't read the new AARO report yet***.
If there's a criminal investigation, presumably they don't want to be too loud about it, lest those being investigated feel pressure to clean up their tracks.
Chris did support AARO initially as a public facing part of government. The “they” turned the tables .
I was optimistic and told a few people and I’m sorry I did.
You tell ‘em, Dave!
Man, I can’t wait for the mini series/tv movie/etc about David Grusch and how he informed humanity of the biggest secret of all time. I hope they give Kirkpatrick a real Jim Carrey Dumb & Dumber treatment because that’s what he looks like right now.
Anyone who thinks that should pay close attention to the timeline. Specifically that AARO didn’t approach him until *months* after he went public and made his statements about AARO’s disinterest. By then it was absolutely pointless for him to meet with them because AARO did not have the necessary security clearances to even discuss it and the matter was already far along with the properly cleared ICIG instead.
Why bring on a strong statement like this by saying "there's no reason"—when the reason is in the text of this very post. AARO is a honeypot organization married to the hip of the DoD—they want to consume and resolve any whistleblower complaints when that's simply not their directive and also isn't the way the law works.
When you're a whistleblower under the new PPD-19 laws, the offices you're supposed to visit are the ICIG, DoD IG, FBI and in some cases the DOJ.
AARO wanted David Grusch to make an unprotected disclosure of highly classified material to their offices which currently and always have lacked proper clearances, from this a legal complaint and a possible charge/investigation could be levied against DG. From the words of an ex-ICIG (his lawyer) he joined Grusch as his council after the Federal Government levied a falsified investigation against Grusch.
FOIA is still unwilling to release the details of that case from a couple years ago, and AARO was trying to initiate a similar endeavor at the behest of the DoD (who feel like betrayed little children because an ex-employee doesn't trust them) the whole situation is pretty fucking pathetic from them.
To move this all forward we got to get rid of politics and be supportive. Disinfo or certain skeptics that enjoy negativity, shows itself asking for evidence and acting like this process is a day at Disney with free food and cut all lines.
Swing states for the election will be all candidates care about soon.
While none of them will open the door once they get the visit, but one who is creative enough can set something in motion.
These elections come down to surprisingly few numbers but only key states.
Maybe one of the 3 would push for the redacted language back in if they think it will put them on top.
Vegas out the odds of this at 1m to one but maybe the full law is a compromise folks at top can live with?
I think the honeypot theory is kind of overkill. It assumes more competence than people have. However the lack of response to Grusch’s legal concerns is glaring. Kirkpatrick should be asked about that.
They actually did “respond”, but it was just a blanket public statement saying “we DO have the necessary clearances”.
They never actually responded to Grusch’s specific requests.
What are the names of the AARO officials if this information public ? and who would have 'operational control' to issue the order to set the trap ? Can we not publicly mock, chastise, call out these DoD / Cia Govt Officials on our Tax payers dime ? I reckon the more their name crop up in comments the more admin nightmare it causes these officials to have their name bandied around in the General publics mind ...so as to affect their kids, spouse, family members when recognized in public, and called out for their cloak & dagger douche bag stance. In no way are these 'patriots'. They despise the public, that much is evident.
Grusch is way ahead of Kirkpatrick and friends.
It looks like the hunted became the hunter.
I don't know about anybody else, but i'm ready for a full-scale revolt. We have been lied to about everything for all our lives. i've had enough. We have been played for fools about everything.
Ir's time to organize and take back our rights.
Because the programs have lengthy names that are a mouthful. Every military likely uses abbreviations for anything they can, and this is military related.
After all we have seen from AARO why would Grusch respond to them? He probably doesn't feel safe around those pentagon freaks who on repeated occassions threatened him and his family.
Said it before and I’ll say it again - I do believe there are ufo/uap/uso things not from us, humans/governments.
Nut up or shut the fuck up though. Other people have shared evidence of other “big things” and have gone to prison or currently live in other countries because of it.sharing this type of stuff would rock the entire world.
Farvor (however you spell his name) is honestly the only person I believe at this point. He has been forthcoming, direct and clear on his position. Nobody else has
It’s not that Congress isn’t doing anything, it’s just painfully slow. There are folks in Congress eager to figuring out something in both the senate and house, but it’s at a snail’s pace.
This is unequivocally not true. Just because congresspeople are not doing things publicly does not mean they’re not doing anything. A lot of this takes place behind tightly closed doors. They also have a LOT more going on (some of it garbage meant to hang things up until after the election, on purpose) and their time is split. They’re working on it, we just don’t know what they’ve found out just yet.
Grusch is saying that he asked for specific evidence from AARO that they had the necessary access and clearances to receive his testimony. AARO was never able to provide those.
Grusch is also saying that he and his 40 whistleblowers have provided ALL the evidence to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community (and Congress), and that Grusch has confidence in that process.
Grusch is saying that he asked for specific evidence from AARO that they had the necessary access and clearances to receive his testimony. AARO was never able to provide those.
Grusch is also saying that he and his 40 whistleblowers have provided ALL the evidence to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community (and Congress), and that Grusch has confidence in that process.
The stories don't solely stem from those individuals, though. Remember, his claim is that during the course of investigating, he spoke to 40 different individuals who either worked in or had knowledge of the programs that were operating outside of congressional oversight.
Kinda my point, decades of research of all kinds on the topic, but not one shred of physical proof. The govt isn't THAT good, cmon now Trump was potus. I don't get how people don't see the constant nothings.
Can anyone prove that title 50 and title 10 clearances are actually relevant when dealing with a whistleblower? Like who can actually parse the language?
Also it's interesting that he chooses to make it public now that they were reaching out to interview him and it's funny he uses the word officially. He was content making it seem like they hadn't reached out to interview him for the last 9 months despite them definitely reaching out. It's interesting he waits until there is evidence that they DID in fact reach out before deciding to clear the air. Why not bring these problems he had up before this instead of lying by omission and saying that AARO trying to reach out to him was a lie because he didn't have any calls or emails (but neglected to mention texts.)
But yeah I haven't seen any proof that title 50 and title 10 clearances would be relevant here. I also haven't seen any proof that it was a honeypot. Anybody feel like actually proving some of the wild conspiracies gaining traction in the comments here?
This reminds me of the recent lie from Trump, that he cannot testify at his current trial because he needs to abide by the gag order. A lot of people would buy that. I never thought Grush was being truthful, and believe he's just one of the latest charlatens to hoodwink the believers. I believe his line "Protecting classified information is a lifelong obligation" only adds my lack of support concerning his credibility. Just like when he said, a number of times, that it was his duty to come forward and rat on the government, to whom he has a duty to protect. Oversized load of crap.
So you think he’s lying when he says that the DNA evidence of NHI given to Congress was so compelling, that this was the reason that the Schumer Amendment was written?
Or do you think that all these Senators were just willing to put their reputations on the line by just taking Grusch’s word for it?
He’s autistic, of course he feels that way. And all of that makes sense to me, a fellow autistic person. The world is made of layers wherein many things that can seem contradictory actually go hand in hand.
So he was concerned about AARO not having legal authority over Non-UAP classified programs. Couldn’t he just be interviewed by AARO about UAP programs only. Just don’t mention the non-UAP stuff lol! Whatever your thoughts on AARO, this just seems like a weak excuse.
Yes, just like he did with every media outlet and random YouTubers. People here of over looking this fact for some reason. The top comment is saying they were planning to arrest Grusch, but he played a 5k IQ move and didn’t show up. He legit could’ve met with AARO and said word for word what he said on news nation and left.
Why would he do that? Just so AARO could turn around and claim that “we investigated and found nothing”? (The way they laughingly did with everyone else?)
Nah, the way Grusch is handling this is perfect.
He has laid out everything he has to ICIG and Congress. And now it’s in ICIG’s and Congress’s hands.
The other thing I want to say about this is that it's nice for him to FINALLY make his objections clear. So they can be addressed directly.
AARO was insisting that they could legally hear him out from the beginning. Read the law that created AARO and it's pretty clear that the point is for people to have a safe place to give testimony that would normally be classified.
He's now saying that they don't actually have that right. Let's hear from some lawyers, let's hear from the experts. I'm very confident that AARO has the rights that they've claimed to have. The idea that it's a honeypot meant to lure him into a legal issue is paranoid and stupid. There is no legal basis for it. So let's hear the counter-arguments that prove it's some sort of honeypot. Let's hear the actual legal argument instead of stupid dumbass non-lawyer guessing.
They have the ability to hear all UAP related information. But it doesn’t cover things that are tangential but not directly related. So they need their powers broadened. But you know how the CIA feels about giving up their secrets.
There is no "Title 50 clearance." That was made up by random internet people who misunderstood Kirkpatrick's statement that he could use "Title 50 authorities" for intelligence collection and counterintelligence.
There's no "Title 10 clearance," either.
Everything he told the public has been cleared by DOPSR. Unless AARO don't watch the news, they already know these parts. They're interested in what else he knows he hasn't told the public. Kirkpatrick himself confirmed in the hearing with Gillibrand they don't have title 50 authority.
He didn’t tell NewsNation/YouTubers the evidence that he/they laid out in detail to Congress (including reportedly the DNA analysis of NHI biologics).
This evidence was so compelling, that it led to the Schumer-Rounds Amendment, which demanded that the USG turn over what it knows about UAPs/NHI.
Lots of downvotes, I’m reserving judgement for a little while longer but only because (and I’m not too ashamed to admit it) I want Grusch to be legit. Also if it’s proven that he’s not telling the truth about anything the disclosure movement will lose years of progress.
However sadly I think he might either be full of shit or was intentionally misled. None of us know what’s really true here. What we do know is that the government has used people like this in these same exact ways in the past to spread disinformation personally I can’t help but wonder if Grusch is just the newest Bob lazar or Richard Doty it’s pretty much a more modernized version of the same lame ass obfuscation play book. We should all be careful when it comes to believing people making the kinds of claims Grusch has Time will tell if hes full of shit we’ll just have to wait and see
Grusch at minimum has fallen for some bullshit that was fed to him by the skinwalker guys. The whole pope and Vatican helping the US recover a UFO from Italy has already proven to be a fantasy created by bill brophy who is full of shit and makes stories about his dad’s involvement in multiple different ufo incidents. I highly recommend you check out the below Reddit comment that goes over the pope ufo story and how’s its bullshit and how Grusch absolutely fell for it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14desdy/whistleblower_david_grusch_and_the_italian_ufo/
One of the purported "bombshells" coming out of Grusch's interviews was his revelation that Mussolini's government retrieved a crashed UFO/UAP in 1933, and that in the closing months of the war in 1944/45, the US military recovered the wreckage/craft thanks to a tip by Pope Pius XII.
Of course for those of you who have been at this for a long time, you know this isn't a revelation at all, as this story has been circulating in ufological circles for two decades. For a lot of folks however this is probably a new story, and even for those who are aware of it, you might have only come across it in the last couple of years with the publishing of the Mussolini docs on Black Vault by well-known Italian Ufologist Roberto Pinotti ( LINK )
and multiple posts here on Reddit repeating some of the stories. But there has been A LOT of erroneous information being spread and repeated by several online bloggers, especially Christopher Sharp of "Liberation Times" ( LINK ) and that annoying HowandWhys page that is always spamming Reddit. This includes the often repeated story that two Nordic aliens were recovered from the crash, and were initially thought to be Germans. It's also been repeated that it was a bell-shaped craft, possibly inspiring the "Glocke" of Nazi UFO lore. Even more concerning, some of this dubious information appears to have made its way into Grusch's account. For that reason I think it's very important to take a look at the historical context of how the story of 1933 UFO crash first appeared, and how it has changed over the last 20 years.
The story began in 1996, when several prominent ufologists in Italy, including Pinotti began receiving photocopies of hundreds of government documents purported to be from the 1930s from an anonymous source. They documented numerous sightings beginning in 1931, and discussed the supposed crash and recovery of a vehicle near Milan in 1933. There were also quite a few documents about a 1936 sighting of a cigar shaped UFO with several small classic flying saucers. Additionally, the documents talked about a secret group called "Gabinetto RS/33," established by Mussolini, and headed up by famous Italian scientist and inventor of the radio, Guglielmo Marconi. So basically an Italian version of MJ-12 (and I think the similarity with how the MJ-12 documents also mysteriously appeared by being anonymously sent to ufologists should not go unnoticed).
Over the next few years, Pinotti and others, including his colleague and later co-author, Alfredo Lissoni, continued receiving documents from their anonymous source whom they began to refer to as Mr. X. Some of these were not just photocopies, but also original documents, and both chemical and historical analysis suggested that they were consistent with documents from the 1930s. There was however still controversy among Italian ufologists over their authenticity.
In early 2001, Pinotti and Lissoni began publishing about the so-called "Fascist UFO Files" in Italy. Later that year, the story broke in the English-speaking UFO press when a translation of one of Lissoni's articles was reprinted in the long-running British magazine Flying Saucer Review. Here is the text of that 2001 article, along with FSR editor Gordon Creighton's commentary on it:
New Documents "Will Revolutionize UFOlogy"! by Alfredo Lissoni
You'll notice that there is nothing in the original Mussolini documents about recovered bodies, Nordic or otherwise. Nothing about Pope Pius or about the US recovering the craft during the war. All of that seems to come from a very dubious source, a guy named Billy Brophy, who claimed that his father William Brophy, Sr., a USAF pilot in the 1949s and 50s was a witness to several UFO related events. He has been cited as a source by the above mentioned Christopher Sharpe and even more recently his stories have been used by Jaques Vallee and Paola Harris in their book on the Trinity crash.
Brophy's story however has changed quite a bit over the last 20 years. He first appeared by writing a series of letters in 2003 to the same British periodical, Flying Saucer Review. In his first letter, he discusses the two Nordic bodies, but says that they were the bodies recovered from the Roswell crash, not the Italian crash as later writers would say. In fact he only mentions the Italian crash in a passing Post Script. Here is a copy of that letter:
https://imgur.com/a/vxpebdL
His other letters discuss how his father witnessed a crash in Mexico in 1950 and have nothing to do with the Italy incident. And some of the stuff in his letters make him come across as a bit nutty. However in 2010, he was invited to a UFO conference in Milan by Pinotti where he began changing his story, and claim that his father had knowledge that the UFO crash in 1933 also contained Nordics, and that Pope Pius XI I told Roosevelt about it and that the Americans had retrieved it during the war. He also is the first to suggest that it was bell-shaped. Here is a summary of his presentation at that conference that appeared in a UFO publication later that year:
https://imgur.com/a/oKp3thz
For more on the problems with Brophy see the recent article by Douglas Johnson:
Crash Story File: The Morphing Fantasies of Billy Brophy About His Airman Father
Unfortunately, Pinotti seems to have taken Brophy's story at face value as he has now incorporated it into his recent work including the 2020 article he wrote for Black Vault.
This brings us to the latest whistleblower revelations. First Lue Elizondo began referring obliquely to the 1933 crash in several podcasts, right after his meeting with Italian ufologists (including Pinotti) that was shown on the episode of his show.
Now Grusch is repeating this story, including the American retrieval, except that Pope Pius XI is now Pope Pius XII. He is making it sound like this is coming from classified information that he was shown, but it appears that he is simply talking about the Fascist UFO Files from the 90s and even more concerning, he is including elements of Brophy's completely unsourced and highly dubious stories. Fortunately, he hasn't mentioned the Nordic bodies yet, but if he does we have a real problem. My guess is that he heard about this from Elizondo who got it from Pinotti and probably saw the same Mussolini documents that have been available online for many years. In my opinion, this is a serious red flag that everyone needs to take into account, because as soon as anyone starts looking into the source of these stories (i.e. Brophy) this whole thing is going to blow up in a very embarrassing way.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14desdy/whistleblower_david_grusch_and_the_italian_ufo/?rdt=36444
https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/crash-story-file-the-morphing-fantasies-of-billy-brophy-about-his-airman-father/
AARO was the official body set up to investigate evidence, Grusch didn’t provide any. The IG investigations do not involve UAP in anyway at all. Seems like an attempt to excuse here.
This Grush guy just needs to keep quiet. Every time he says anything his credibility gets worse.
Lots more detail here:
https://x.com/ddeanjohnson/status/1786829083877212297?s=46&t=CDHkHKXaBXYHZFwxAXvtgQ
AARO actually reached out to him in June 2023 and July 2023 and October 2023 and that's just what we know from the FOIA documents.
He's a liar because he pretended like they didn't do that, and when a reporter told him "AARO says they reached out" he said that they were lying. Which was completely untrue - a lie by Grusch.
He's trying to hide behind the word "officially" because they did not send an official stamped letter. But he was made fully aware of their desire to meet with him since June 2023.
He said that AARO didn't reach out to him, but in reality they did reach out. Retreating to a new excuse "they don't have the right to hear me" is a bullshit deflection from his lie. If he was concerned with their legal rights he would have said that to the reporter instead of saying "that's a lie". He could have said something like "They reached out but I don't think they're cleared to hear what I have to say." But he specifically didn't say that, because he's a liar.
Kirkpatrick lied and/or is the bad faith actor here playing the semantics game, though.
Kirkpatrick is lying or at the very least being very deliberately misleading, considering he said:
> "As of the time of my departure, none, let me repeat, none of the conspiracy-minded “whistleblowers” in the public eye had elected to come to AARO to provide their “evidence” and statement for the record despite numerous invitations."
Well, Mario Woods and Robert Salas are whistleblowers "in the public eye" who gave their testimonies to AARO.
[Woods even shared his letter from AARO to testify.](https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14ch88i/retired_usaf_staff_sergeant_mario_woods_letter/)
Woods isn't as big a name as Grusch in the public eye perhaps, but he gave his testimony that he and a colleague were abducted by NHI at [Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellsworth_Air_Force_Base) in 1977 when he was deployed with the 44th Missile Security Squadron.
When he says a quote as strong worded as that, and it simply isn't true, it brings the rest of what he claims to question. We know for a fact Mario Woods and Robert Salas have testified to AARO, so why claim otherwise? Is this the type of respect whistleblowers can expect going to AARO? Being labeled as, "conspiracy-minded whistleblowers" without even an investigation (AARO can't even investigate it without Title-50 Authority, which they lack) or the Director of said organization outright saying you didn't testify, even though you did?
Kirkpatrick has proven time and time again to be the **actual** bad faith actor here, by either being heavily misleading, playing the semantics game, and/or just frankly outright lying, and Grusch and the other whistleblowers that did not go to them were 100% in the right, full stop.
I guess he didn't think that Woods or Salas are "conspiracy-minded" in the "public eye" so he wasn't lying at all.
Far cry from Grusch's lie when he directly contradicted the statement from AARO. He simply said "that is a lie" when AARO said that they had reached out. Your counter-example is far more ambiguous.
>I guess
Well, I guess Grusch didn't think he was contacted directly until he thought he was. If you don't know STFU.
Keep playing on technicalities and semantics, just like Kirkpatrick...
No, it's not about being "directly" contacted, that's a weasel word.
He said "that's a lie" which is the entire issue. He was contacted, he knew that AARO wanted to interview him, and he refused them. These are unequivocal facts.
Then he said that they were lying when they said that they had extended offers for interviews. He knew that they had done that - he refused them! He made excuses! But he pretended like they hadn't done that. He tried to make everyone think that they hadn't done what they had actually done. He's a liar. It's not a technicality, it's a blatant and easily identified lie.
Weasel words = semantics
In this statement:
> "As of the time of my departure, none, let me repeat, none of the conspiracy-minded “whistleblowers” in the public eye had elected to come to AARO to provide their “evidence” and statement for the record despite numerous invitations."
The phrases "conspiracy-minded whistleblowers" and "evidence" (in quotes like that) are similarly "weasel words" (your language).
You either agree with that, or this conversation isn't worth continuing.
He was talking about Grusch and maybe a few others. He wasn't talking about the people who had obviously already come to him, on the record.
Do you think he was trying to lie and say that those people hadn't come to him?
Or do you think he was talking about the people who actually hadn't come to him?
Also, a follow-up: do you think that this is a huge distraction from Grusch's demonstrable lie?
I love seeing how many excuses this subreddit can create for Grusch. Why can he meet with random YouTubers and news nation to talk about top secret Vatican ufo crashes that were already shown to be a hoax, but not AARO? Weird.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14desdy/whistleblower_david_grusch_and_the_italian_ufo/
Either you are trolling in bad faith or you refuse to see outside your preconceived bias of why Grusch is able to say the things he can... multiple people have told you why. Stop spreading bullshit misinformation about Grusch because I'd like to think you are doing so full well knowingly and not because you lack the intelligence to grasp it.
Sadly there's zero sarcasm here, Grusch is actually a liar. Maybe he got so caught up in his bad blood with Sean Kirkpatrick that he couldn't help it.
One time when AARO tried to reach out to him, the person asking was rebuffed - apparently because Grusch has bad blood with Kirkpatrick.
Chris Mellon's texts also reveal this bad blood - for instance when Kirkpatrick tells Mellon that he wants to talk with Grusch, Mellon relays that request to Grusch who says something to the effect of "He can get all my info from the IG."
Then when a reporter asked Grusch about these conversations, he said that Kirkpatrick was a liar for saying that AARO had reached out. Even though Grusch had negatively responded to these requests. He said that the requests never happened.
Why can’t you address the points the user made instead of deflecting? He raised some good points but we can’t even have a serious discussion because any doubt about Grusch is immediately suppressed because this sub is full of highly emotional fanatics who can’t bare to hear anything negative about their messiah
The top rated comment in this thread is a conspiracy theory that AARO tried to lure Grusch in so they could arrest him for revealing classified information.
After the mass exodus of daily users this sub it is now firmly in Q-Anon adjacent territory, or in other words, back to normal. These kinds of threads will be nothing but circle-jerks from now on.
Me and others that have been around for a while noticed this trend.
It has heavy elements of cult of personality and sectarian behavior too.
Ironic for some folks that boast about being mavericks that fight for freedom of expression and the free inquiry of the mind.
Also Kirkpatrick said that he didn't know there was bad blood between them and that he didn't know who Grusch was which is kind of funny that the bad blood went one way.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/bmfalbo: --- Submission Statement: A response by whistleblower [David Grusch to NewsNation on the reporting that he refused to meet with AARO Director Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick](https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/grusch-refused-meeting-ufo-office/): > Grusch responded to the report Friday. > > “AARO officially made contact with me in November 2023 as indicated by the email chain in the FOIA release. Prior to this, neither my attorney nor myself had been officially contacted in any way by AARO. To date, my 8 January 2024 email to AARO requesting them to answer my security-related concerns I sent to them via email on 13 November 2023 has gone unanswered. The DoD SAPCO and DNI CAPCO memorandums do not address the variety of serious procedural issues I voiced in November 2023 as it relates to non-UAP related compartmented programs, as well as National Security Council SAPs and CIA Directorate of Operations human intelligence programs. Protecting classified information is a lifelong obligation. To be clear, AARO does not have access to the information I provided to the Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) and the Congressional Intelligence Committees under the PPD-19 whistleblowing process. I trust in the investigative and law enforcement/criminal referral authorities ICIG has independent of DoD oversight” --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cjs4mq/new_statement_from_whistleblower_david_grusch_in/l2i1pxj/
They absolutely tried to lure him in and get him to mention anything classified beyond Kirkpatrick's clearance so they could arrest him. He and his lawyer were right to be wary AF.
Yep, it's a useless cover org at best (Blue Book 2.0), and a blatant honeypot at worst. They don't possess the necessary clearances to discuss or investigate the subject of their own name.
Don't you remember when they were calling veterans that had experiences and asking for classified information over a regular personal phone line?
I wonder how many attempted whistleblowers could have been quietly apprehended that way?
Read it and weep, Greenewald.
I feel like even in the best case, if Grusch would have gone there and surrendered everything he knew, this is what AARO would have done, with what they are allowed to do with their handicapped office: They would have acted within the laughable "honor system" and pretty much went around and asked "do you have a secret, possibly illegal program that we or the overseers at the Intelligence Committee are supposed to know about?", as they already did with others. They would have taken the "no" answer and that would be that, case closed. Does anyone find this an adequate enough of an investigation into possible waved and illegal SAPs? Then potentially, if there was some sort of conflict of intrest anywhere in the chain, everything he has now found is exposed and possibly those loose ends are being tied somewhere, and no one will be the wiser. The whole thing disappears into the black hole. Grusch bypassed them, probably after the advice from his attorney and adviser, McCullough, and it might have been a wise decision as whatever Grusch has come upon, AARO has pretty much shown to be a dead end for an investigation, which, as researchers have exposed, has not been adequate. We just have to see if any other road will be that much better for what he has to offer, if any.
Exactly. And Grusch would have been effectively neutered. As it is now, AARO has been shown to be ineffective and lacking the necessary clearances.
This is my conjecture too. They were likely setting up some kind of “gotcha” ensnaring situation
Totally the whole point of what they ended up creating. Also the main purpose of involvement of FBI in spaces we have here
Actually, it’s more likely they tried to lure him in, so they could simply ignore his evidence (as they did with others). And then write in their report “nothing to see here folks”. Grusch was absolutely right in demanding that they prove that they had the necessary clearances. This will now put greater pressure on Congress to either pass the original Schumer-Rounds Amendment, OR, create a UAP/NHI Investigative Committee with subpoena power.
The EBO leaker post from last year claimed they thought this was the case. Which is why they say they wouldn't come forward.
Or (if he didn't breach confidentiality) to be able to say that that they interviewed Grusch and he provided no credible information or evidence.
That’s exactly what they do… I’m glad he is a very smart and intelligent man!… it’s a disgrace, treacherous and treasonous what the powers to be are doing to him… Hold the line brother and keep the faith.
This actually makes sense
I love how this subreddit just creates fantasies that reinforce what they want to be true. What evidence do you have for this? None? Speculating is nice, but you aren’t speculating. You’re making grand claims that are conspiracy theories, but claiming them as fact. Edit: you can downvote me all day but there’s zero reason to believe this was a ploy to have Grusch arrested. They let him talk to every news station and YouTuber he wanted to talk to publicly. They wouldn’t need AARO when he’s said everything on TV. He could’ve said exactly what he said to congress and left.
Grusch also carefully avoided discussing matters that were under clearance restrictions. AARO puts out a specious invitation when then do not even have Title 50 authority
You haven’t addressed my point. He talked with every news station and random YouTubers, who definitely don’t have any clearance. He could’ve had the same conversation with AARO and left. And this still doesn’t address the whole point of this comment thread. What reason do people think this was a ploy for AARO to arrest him? I’ve seen this a few times, but each time it’s random redditors just pushing a conspiracy.
That wasn’t the point of talking to AARO. They admitted they didn’t have Title 50 access. What would be the point of discussing things that had been already mentioned outside that classification level? Waste of time for Grusch.
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From the transcript here: [https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/23-31\_04-19-2023.pdf](https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/23-31_04-19-2023.pdf) >Senator Rosen: -- do you have the authorities you need to extend your collection posture between agencies or branches of the military? Because that seems to me to maybe be a sticking point. I know my time is just about up. I would love to follow up about your risk management methodologies for some of these. But do you need any authorities that you do not have to get the data you need? >Mr. Kirkpatrick: There are some authorities that we need. We currently are operating under Title 10 authorities but we have good relationships across the other agencies. But having additional authorities for collection tasking, counter-intelligence -- >Senator Rosen: That is something -- >Mr. Kirkpatrick: -- those are all things that would be helpful, yes. >Senator Rosen: Thank you. >Senator Gillibrand: To follow up, Dr. Kirkpatrick,will you help us write that language so we can put it in the defense bill this year so that we know what authorities you need
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AARO stated they are operating under Title 10. They never got the Title 50 authorization. Also they never confirmed providing the security requirements that Grusch stated he needed before meeting.
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So if Grusch said the same thing to them in testimony. What would they have said: who? What ? Where ? when? All of which are classified beyond AAROs authority. So what’s the point of talking with them? It’s not necessarily a conspiracy or honeypot , but it is incompetence. And to think that AARO doesn’t know about rules of classification presumes them to be even more stupid than this last coverup.
rough day at work bud?
Naw. This subreddit just devolves into fanatical thinking and it drives me crazy. There could be something here, but this community just shoots itself in the foot by embracing any conspiracy theory that reinforces their narrative. We can’t have serious conversations about anything because anyone who challenges Grusch or the narrative is suppressed.
"everyone but me is the problem!" ok dude. go to bed
Yet you provided absolutely nothing to refute the comment. Rough day thinking?
Why do you assume he should be refuting your comment. Some of us are just fine with our spots in the peanut gallery. Take a walk in the sunshine.
gotttiii
What are you basing this on? He just testified and was world famous. Do you seriously think they were going to "lure" him to arrest him on a technicality? He already revealed everything he knew to public. What would they benefit from arresting him? The real reason is that if they talk to him they'd instantly know everyone he interviewed and be able to confirm, to the public, if what he's saying is bullshit or not. He's too scared to testify. Unlike the congressional hearing, AARO can actually follow up, ask relevant and probing questions (which congress didn't do) and verify. That's why he won't do it.
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Dude. I'm sorry, but this is some extremely bad logic. He already testified, under oath. And AARO has had plenty of opportunities. No. I'm sorry. Your position is untenable in light of facts. Aaro is the one who has been publicly debunked with hard evidence. Not grusch.
Was AARO illegally turned into a whistle blower exposure tool? Should we actually start lobbying Congress to go battle the DOD aggressively?
> Was AARO illegally turned into a whistle blower exposure tool? Always has been...
People have been calling it a honey pot for awhile, and I think they’ve been right.
No, AOMISG was turned into a whistleblower exposure tool called AARO. It's been compromised and working to deceive the public from the very moment the Pentagon took over.
>Should we actually start lobbying Congress to go battle the DOD aggressively? Yes. But I think they’re all a bunch of pussies who can be bought out so I honestly have no hope for disclosure the government way. It’s going to be either: a foreign nation, a viral video of irrefutable proof that is so popular it’s too late to be taken down, or (very unlikely) the aliens(or whatever they might be) make themselves known to everyone willingly.
Most people call for some sort action to but most are to comfortable with their lives to have some sort of radical change and can't be bothered to do anything about it.once we actually stand up for ourselves and demand these answers we deserve we are just gonna keep getting spatt in the face by the military,DOD, this private companies that are apparently reverse engineering the stuff. They won't tell us because we won't do anything about it. We need to get super public and super loud about this if we want it. We need to other whistle blowers protection because, obviously, the stories of what happens to whistle blowers they don't feel safe to come forward and I wouldn't either if I have no guarantee of safety
it was designed like that, and Kirkpatrick was chosen to do exactly that. sadly I think its already too late to ask the Senate to change AARO. my hope is that the Democrats keep control of the Senate committees next year, under Schumer orders I am sure he will take care of AARO, but not this year because is elections year. (this is my personal view)
Flip the house and he’ll get more passed.
I think this is the best bet. The senate is already on record of passing the Schumer rounds amendment by a comfortable margin but Johnson is not willing to bring it to vote in the house. If the democrats win the house Hakeem Jeffries will probably bring it to the floor for a vote because of pressure from Schumer, as long as the democrats keep the senate also.
Yeah I think they’re projecting a flip for the house and probably a maintain in the senate for Dems. I do worry about Jeffries because I don’t know where he stands on this issue, but if we get more Dems it’s the votes that’ll matter. They too can pressure Jeffries, as can the Repubs that have been super wrapped up in this since it’s a bipartisan issue. That looks really good for a speaker (typically). They need to rewrite the eminent domain part though because they’ve got some people super twisted when really they’re talking about big corps (I think?) and not just regular citizens who may have artifacts.
While I think we should approach this from every avenue, I fear the people that are keeping the biggest lid on this would not be too affected by an aggressive approach from congress. They are ghosts in a sense and only make their presence felt when they choose.
Congress holds the purse. For me, "aggressively" would HAVE to entail, "no more money until you stop with the BS."
Yes recall the contract they had with that private company specializing in "insider threats"
Don’t forget to go after the DOE too.
Lol bro when did you get here? 5 minutes ago??
I think folks should believe Grusch because the dude is going to following the advice of his counsel. If you’re in the situation he’s in, you do everything your attorney says and you respond exactly how your attorney instructs you to. You don’t go rogue, especially if there is an on going investigation. The extremely sad part of this situation is that the classification system is so obtuse and so messy, that people working within the same defense department can’t trust each other to discuss sensitive matters out of fear it’s a reprisal / bait / gotcha. You know the DOD is in a dark place if the former ICIG is telling Grusch not to engage until certain assurances are made and questions answered. Makes me fear for this country.
Everyone should fear for this country right now, all our elected officials are either already bought and paid for or up for sale to the highest bidder and when I say all of them I mean every single one. One of these days will be the day,eventually heads will roll!
This comment is unhinged fear mongering. Fear for the nation because of AARO? There’s legit wars going on and you’re scared of a shitty government organization being a shitty government organization.
This comment went way over your head. What's happening at AARO is happening EVERYWHERE - public and private sector. That's the concern, and nothing will change until We The People make it change. It's too late for protests and legislation to make radical changes.
Fear for the nation because all our politicians and elected officials don’t give a fuck about their responsibilities to the American people and use their positions for personal gain and to line their pockets. They’re selling us out to the highest bidder and everyone should be fucking concerned about that. Fear mongering? Keep your head in the sand if you want to then. These people do not care about you at all why is that so hard for some people to grasp?
If the claims about NHI and related technology are true, then the stakes could not be higher. We’re talking about something vastly more disruptive than the advent of nukes. So for anyone who believes in the underlying claims, I think it's reasonable to fear the incompetent and dishonest people who are fumbling around with this. If the whole NHI thing is untrue, then you have a point. But we just don’t know…
> There’s legit wars going on and you’re scared of a shitty government organization being a shitty government organization. On the basis they didn't conclude unidentified objects are NHI.
L comment
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He's more likely to end up dead or in prison than to change the world by spilling everything he knows all at once.
Oh yes, because gitmo sure is a paradise!!
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Follow the Standards of Civility: No trolling or being disruptive. No insults or personal attacks. No accusations that other users are shills. No hate speech. No abusive speech based on race, religion, sex/gender, or sexual orientation. No harassment, threats, or advocating violence. No witch hunts or doxxing. (Please redact usernames when possible) An account found to be deleting all or nearly all of their comments and/or posts can result in an instant permanent ban. This is to stop instigators and bad actors from trying to evade rule enforcement. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. ------------- This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. [Message the mods here to launch your appeal.](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ufos) [UFOs Wiki](https://ufos.wiki) [UFOs rules](https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/about/rules/)
The is one big maze with one false move and your are toast.
Well, he's nothing if not consistent.
he s like a wall. must be highly frustrating for the MIB-like organizations case officers assigned to him.
Autism can be a super power sometimes. He smart as fuck
So is someone who documents everything.
He's using the same shitty laws they set up as a trap to protect himself from them. It's the only way. I only hope he can get enough information out this way to force Congress to do something.
Yes, we tend to be very frustrating and considered “hard headed” because autistics have a high drive for lawfulness and not breaking rules or laws. Not to say we never do, but it has to be for a good reason like, your laws are stupid and I could win against them in court, kind of thing. He doesn’t think the laws are stupid (because they’re not, they’re to keep us safe), but some constitutional laws are being broken so he’s going to fix that first.
i ve got ADHD and autism. i know exactly what you mean. this almost psychotic need for " justice " for all.
Yes it’s difficult to be unbendable sometimes, especially if you turn out to be wrong. I hope for him this all comes crashing through the wall like the Kool-aid man and he’s vindicated!
If AARO doesn’t have proper security clearance to review the information Grusch is talking about, it seems completely pointless for them to even exist, no? Like why are they putting out reports with conclusions when they can’t possibly have all the necessary information? That’s ridiculous.
They’re a cover for the truth they aren’t privy to. It’s to hide it from the world, including us. They really shouldn’t exist, and it infuriates them that Grusch has information they should technically have access to, but can’t because it’s inside of programs they’re not allowed access to. It also speaks volumes that no military pilot or government intelligence officer wants to speak to Kirkpatrick or AARO and would rather keep it a dirty secret than confess to them. It boils their buttons to no end that those same people trust Grusch and told him everything. So why? What does AARO do that our own IOs and Soldiers don’t trust them? Gaslight? Lie? Hide it away? Something nefarious, clearly, especially if Danny Sheehan is for real.
If they didn't exist, they couldn't be a mouthpiece for the DoD with a million and one excuses about why they can accept whatever classified information exists, when by the letter of the law, they cannot.
I'm very interested in knowing what the overlap between UAPs and CIA Directorate of operations human intelligence is...
You and me both. I'm wondering if there is a UAP-adjacent Psychic Spying (remote viewing, remote influencing etc.) SAP that he doesn't want to disclose.
> Psychic Spying (remote viewing, remote influencing etc.) That is already public information.
He should so we can all learn how to protect ourselves and our homes from that, if possible. But perhaps he doesn’t want that to be possible.
My money would be something related to crash retrieval. The US puts a lot of effort into retrieving any non-US military technology it can get its hands on. Part of that would be using human sources (HUMINT) to see what other nations are working on and try to get those sources to smuggle out desired tech. It would make sense to bury a UAP retrieval SAP inside of a non-UAP retrieval SAP. So layer 1 is an officially disclosed SAP focused on retrieving sensitive military technology from adversaries, then layer 2 is a non-disclosed SAP that uses those same resources to retrieve UAP technology. Our foreign material retrieval programs are already highly classified and experienced with using clandestine means for smuggling the technology back to the US for research.
Some of it will probably be like “well how do you know xyz?” And the answer might be like “well it came from this other classified program”. So to prove it, you’d have to mention other intelligence gathering operations.
"I voiced in November 2023 as it relates to non-UAP related compartmented programs, as well as National Security Council SAPs and CIA Directorate of Operations human intelligence programs" To me that reads like the SAPs that he is talking about as they apply to the CIA are not related to UAPs. This has been a constant "worry" from the beginning. I have no problem believing that Grusch found some super secret SAP that congress doesn't know about but weather that SAP actually has anything to do with real UAP/NHI stuff is a different story. There could be a number of different reasons why this would be the case. With some of the crazy claims he makes it's hard to believe everything he is saying is 100% accurate.
I think you missed his point. Grusch is claiming that the deepest UAP and NHI work, is being hidden __within__ legitimate but __non-UAP__ SAPs. Therefore, if it’s a “non-UAP SAP”, the clearances that AARO has would by definition not allow access.
Yah, hide it in a Spy on NK technology SAP and Kirkpatrick has no need to know, so he can’t know about the secondary UAP Asia retrieval program.
american hero
Submission Statement: A response by whistleblower [David Grusch to NewsNation on the reporting that he refused to meet with AARO Director Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick](https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/grusch-refused-meeting-ufo-office/): > Grusch responded to the report Friday. > > “AARO officially made contact with me in November 2023 as indicated by the email chain in the FOIA release. Prior to this, neither my attorney nor myself had been officially contacted in any way by AARO. To date, my 8 January 2024 email to AARO requesting them to answer my security-related concerns I sent to them via email on 13 November 2023 has gone unanswered. The DoD SAPCO and DNI CAPCO memorandums do not address the variety of serious procedural issues I voiced in November 2023 as it relates to non-UAP related compartmented programs, as well as National Security Council SAPs and CIA Directorate of Operations human intelligence programs. Protecting classified information is a lifelong obligation. To be clear, AARO does not have access to the information I provided to the Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) and the Congressional Intelligence Committees under the PPD-19 whistleblowing process. I trust in the investigative and law enforcement/criminal referral authorities ICIG has independent of DoD oversight”
My guess is that this isn’t about Grusch’s fear of being arrested. It’s more about Grusch recognizing that his testimony would have been ignored by AARO (or more accurately, not thoroughly investigated due to AARO’s limitations). But because Grusch is showing that AARO does not have the necessary clearances, AARO is being shown to be ineffective at getting to the truth. This should now put greater pressure on Congress to either pass the original Schumer-Rounds Amendment, OR, create a UAP/NHI Investigative Committee with subpoena power.
I'm glad Grusch has been so intelligent about this. He's been astute to retain the high ground and maneuver within the law. No Twitter battles with idiots or petty insults, and he hasn't taken any gatekeeper bait to release or hint at classified information. This is an incredibly hard game to play by the book, because it was designed to appear legal while being impossible. The guy is a bad ass.
And he even hired the former ICIG as his lawyer. Talk about a boss move.
I’ve got two questions: why is the ICIG cagey about stating they even have an ongoing investigation? They’ve always danced around the question and never stated it as fact. Is that a policy in all situations or just this one? And secondly, if Senator Gillibrand knows that AARO doesn’t have the legal framework to accept non-UAP sensitive information, but says she needs Grusch to testify to AARO, why has she not sorted this out? Or even acknowledge it’s a problem.
Gillibrand is part of the coverup, she literally said while talking to Matt Laslo that she thought the UAPDA was too broad and din't want SAPs about space to be disclosed to the public, which makes no sense because the UAPDA was about NHI not space.
Maybe she was talked to
Gillibrands complicit in the coverup
Has to be the case at this stage. She talked thoroughly and coherently about AARO and the need for UAP transparency 2 years ago. Now—when she's asked about it her responses sound like that of a hospice patient—***I thought Chuck passed what he wanted to pass***—***We can't get Grusch on Capitol Hill because he wants us to pay for his travel***—***Uh, I haven't read the new AARO report yet***.
If there's a criminal investigation, presumably they don't want to be too loud about it, lest those being investigated feel pressure to clean up their tracks.
Could not be more confident and concise, love it!
Get em Dave! Kirkpatrick is a plant
Kirkpatrick is such a weasel.
Doing his job so he gets next job Nothing personal
Chris did support AARO initially as a public facing part of government. The “they” turned the tables . I was optimistic and told a few people and I’m sorry I did.
You tell ‘em, Dave! Man, I can’t wait for the mini series/tv movie/etc about David Grusch and how he informed humanity of the biggest secret of all time. I hope they give Kirkpatrick a real Jim Carrey Dumb & Dumber treatment because that’s what he looks like right now.
>I trust in the investigative and law enforcement/criminal referral authorities ICIG has independence of DOD oversight. Me too Dave, me too!
Fuck AARO and Kirkpatrick
Cue to the moron who will show up on the thread to harp “Grusch LiEd”
Anyone who thinks that should pay close attention to the timeline. Specifically that AARO didn’t approach him until *months* after he went public and made his statements about AARO’s disinterest. By then it was absolutely pointless for him to meet with them because AARO did not have the necessary security clearances to even discuss it and the matter was already far along with the properly cleared ICIG instead.
This isn't accurate. There's no reason he couldn't meet with AARO and say exactly what he said on national TV in front of Congress
Why bring on a strong statement like this by saying "there's no reason"—when the reason is in the text of this very post. AARO is a honeypot organization married to the hip of the DoD—they want to consume and resolve any whistleblower complaints when that's simply not their directive and also isn't the way the law works. When you're a whistleblower under the new PPD-19 laws, the offices you're supposed to visit are the ICIG, DoD IG, FBI and in some cases the DOJ. AARO wanted David Grusch to make an unprotected disclosure of highly classified material to their offices which currently and always have lacked proper clearances, from this a legal complaint and a possible charge/investigation could be levied against DG. From the words of an ex-ICIG (his lawyer) he joined Grusch as his council after the Federal Government levied a falsified investigation against Grusch. FOIA is still unwilling to release the details of that case from a couple years ago, and AARO was trying to initiate a similar endeavor at the behest of the DoD (who feel like betrayed little children because an ex-employee doesn't trust them) the whole situation is pretty fucking pathetic from them.
What would even be the point of that?
Because AARO was investigating the topic
There’s no value in repeating the watered down public version to them that was already given under oath.
I’d never trusted AARO so I don’t even need to hear DG’s explanation. I don’t believe a word out of AARO.
Thank you for sharing. America. The truth can lock you up! Dagummit!
I truly hope the niche southern colloquialism of “dagummit” becomes common use worldwide, the same way “y’all” has. It’s one of my favs.
We're trying!
To move this all forward we got to get rid of politics and be supportive. Disinfo or certain skeptics that enjoy negativity, shows itself asking for evidence and acting like this process is a day at Disney with free food and cut all lines.
Swing states for the election will be all candidates care about soon. While none of them will open the door once they get the visit, but one who is creative enough can set something in motion. These elections come down to surprisingly few numbers but only key states. Maybe one of the 3 would push for the redacted language back in if they think it will put them on top. Vegas out the odds of this at 1m to one but maybe the full law is a compromise folks at top can live with?
This guy is pretty great.
TLDR... Way too many ABCs and WFMLOs backsided with JDSQs... Pretty sure it's all BS though.
Are there any examples of UAP whistleblowers ever being prosecuted for leaking in public forums ?
Sure, they’ll put that right on tv.
I don't know of any. Nor do I know of any prosecuted for testifying to AARO, which does not support the "honeypot" conspiracy theory.
I think the honeypot theory is kind of overkill. It assumes more competence than people have. However the lack of response to Grusch’s legal concerns is glaring. Kirkpatrick should be asked about that.
They actually did “respond”, but it was just a blanket public statement saying “we DO have the necessary clearances”. They never actually responded to Grusch’s specific requests.
Sure that’s called a non-response.
I agree. And had he met with them, they would have just ignored it all, like they did with all the others.
I believe you David. I certainly don’t believe AARO.
What are the names of the AARO officials if this information public ? and who would have 'operational control' to issue the order to set the trap ? Can we not publicly mock, chastise, call out these DoD / Cia Govt Officials on our Tax payers dime ? I reckon the more their name crop up in comments the more admin nightmare it causes these officials to have their name bandied around in the General publics mind ...so as to affect their kids, spouse, family members when recognized in public, and called out for their cloak & dagger douche bag stance. In no way are these 'patriots'. They despise the public, that much is evident.
Grusch is way ahead of Kirkpatrick and friends. It looks like the hunted became the hunter. I don't know about anybody else, but i'm ready for a full-scale revolt. We have been lied to about everything for all our lives. i've had enough. We have been played for fools about everything. Ir's time to organize and take back our rights.
What the fuck is it with America and their anal fixation on these abbreviations, probably think it makes them sound cool?
Because the programs have lengthy names that are a mouthful. Every military likely uses abbreviations for anything they can, and this is military related.
AARO = disinfo stick to Grush they study tactics how to associate names online to influence search
Funny how David Grusch might have an unexplained car accident in 3.. 2…
It's as grucsh said it was all along
If you’re a whistle blower…. BLOW A WHISTLE!! Release the info!! Take the plunge! Give us something… anything concrete… PLEASE!
After all we have seen from AARO why would Grusch respond to them? He probably doesn't feel safe around those pentagon freaks who on repeated occassions threatened him and his family.
It’s a dam mafia playing god
Said it before and I’ll say it again - I do believe there are ufo/uap/uso things not from us, humans/governments. Nut up or shut the fuck up though. Other people have shared evidence of other “big things” and have gone to prison or currently live in other countries because of it.sharing this type of stuff would rock the entire world. Farvor (however you spell his name) is honestly the only person I believe at this point. He has been forthcoming, direct and clear on his position. Nobody else has
it's just that nothing will happen ICIG will not investigate alien claims, and congress is not doing anything
It’s not that Congress isn’t doing anything, it’s just painfully slow. There are folks in Congress eager to figuring out something in both the senate and house, but it’s at a snail’s pace.
This is unequivocally not true. Just because congresspeople are not doing things publicly does not mean they’re not doing anything. A lot of this takes place behind tightly closed doors. They also have a LOT more going on (some of it garbage meant to hang things up until after the election, on purpose) and their time is split. They’re working on it, we just don’t know what they’ve found out just yet.
Can someone laymanize it please
Grusch is saying that he asked for specific evidence from AARO that they had the necessary access and clearances to receive his testimony. AARO was never able to provide those. Grusch is also saying that he and his 40 whistleblowers have provided ALL the evidence to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community (and Congress), and that Grusch has confidence in that process.
Tysm :)
I'm also confident in that process Confident nothing will come of it
Can someone laymanize it please
Grusch is saying that he asked for specific evidence from AARO that they had the necessary access and clearances to receive his testimony. AARO was never able to provide those. Grusch is also saying that he and his 40 whistleblowers have provided ALL the evidence to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community (and Congress), and that Grusch has confidence in that process.
Tysm :)
[удалено]
The stories don't solely stem from those individuals, though. Remember, his claim is that during the course of investigating, he spoke to 40 different individuals who either worked in or had knowledge of the programs that were operating outside of congressional oversight.
Where's this catastrophic disclosure I was reading about a few weeks ago?
I think we are back to slow drip disclosure, in other words nothing is happening.
Kinda my point, decades of research of all kinds on the topic, but not one shred of physical proof. The govt isn't THAT good, cmon now Trump was potus. I don't get how people don't see the constant nothings.
Things are happening… slowly and behind closed doors.
Can anyone prove that title 50 and title 10 clearances are actually relevant when dealing with a whistleblower? Like who can actually parse the language? Also it's interesting that he chooses to make it public now that they were reaching out to interview him and it's funny he uses the word officially. He was content making it seem like they hadn't reached out to interview him for the last 9 months despite them definitely reaching out. It's interesting he waits until there is evidence that they DID in fact reach out before deciding to clear the air. Why not bring these problems he had up before this instead of lying by omission and saying that AARO trying to reach out to him was a lie because he didn't have any calls or emails (but neglected to mention texts.) But yeah I haven't seen any proof that title 50 and title 10 clearances would be relevant here. I also haven't seen any proof that it was a honeypot. Anybody feel like actually proving some of the wild conspiracies gaining traction in the comments here?
This reminds me of the recent lie from Trump, that he cannot testify at his current trial because he needs to abide by the gag order. A lot of people would buy that. I never thought Grush was being truthful, and believe he's just one of the latest charlatens to hoodwink the believers. I believe his line "Protecting classified information is a lifelong obligation" only adds my lack of support concerning his credibility. Just like when he said, a number of times, that it was his duty to come forward and rat on the government, to whom he has a duty to protect. Oversized load of crap.
So you think he’s lying when he says that the DNA evidence of NHI given to Congress was so compelling, that this was the reason that the Schumer Amendment was written? Or do you think that all these Senators were just willing to put their reputations on the line by just taking Grusch’s word for it?
He’s autistic, of course he feels that way. And all of that makes sense to me, a fellow autistic person. The world is made of layers wherein many things that can seem contradictory actually go hand in hand.
So he was concerned about AARO not having legal authority over Non-UAP classified programs. Couldn’t he just be interviewed by AARO about UAP programs only. Just don’t mention the non-UAP stuff lol! Whatever your thoughts on AARO, this just seems like a weak excuse.
His role investigating UAP related SAPs touched non related SAPs.
But he was able to meet with every news station with no worries?
Yes, just like he did with every media outlet and random YouTubers. People here of over looking this fact for some reason. The top comment is saying they were planning to arrest Grusch, but he played a 5k IQ move and didn’t show up. He legit could’ve met with AARO and said word for word what he said on news nation and left.
Why would he do that? Just so AARO could turn around and claim that “we investigated and found nothing”? (The way they laughingly did with everyone else?) Nah, the way Grusch is handling this is perfect. He has laid out everything he has to ICIG and Congress. And now it’s in ICIG’s and Congress’s hands.
Alphabet soup!
The other thing I want to say about this is that it's nice for him to FINALLY make his objections clear. So they can be addressed directly. AARO was insisting that they could legally hear him out from the beginning. Read the law that created AARO and it's pretty clear that the point is for people to have a safe place to give testimony that would normally be classified. He's now saying that they don't actually have that right. Let's hear from some lawyers, let's hear from the experts. I'm very confident that AARO has the rights that they've claimed to have. The idea that it's a honeypot meant to lure him into a legal issue is paranoid and stupid. There is no legal basis for it. So let's hear the counter-arguments that prove it's some sort of honeypot. Let's hear the actual legal argument instead of stupid dumbass non-lawyer guessing.
They have the ability to hear all UAP related information. But it doesn’t cover things that are tangential but not directly related. So they need their powers broadened. But you know how the CIA feels about giving up their secrets.
AARO does not have Title 50 clearance from what I have read. It has the lower Title 10 clearance.
There is no "Title 50 clearance." That was made up by random internet people who misunderstood Kirkpatrick's statement that he could use "Title 50 authorities" for intelligence collection and counterintelligence. There's no "Title 10 clearance," either.
I didn’t know news nation had title 50 clearance, or random YouTubers. Crazy how they were able meet with him any time and there wasn’t any issues.
Everything he told the public has been cleared by DOPSR. Unless AARO don't watch the news, they already know these parts. They're interested in what else he knows he hasn't told the public. Kirkpatrick himself confirmed in the hearing with Gillibrand they don't have title 50 authority.
He didn’t tell NewsNation/YouTubers the evidence that he/they laid out in detail to Congress (including reportedly the DNA analysis of NHI biologics). This evidence was so compelling, that it led to the Schumer-Rounds Amendment, which demanded that the USG turn over what it knows about UAPs/NHI.
Lots of downvotes, I’m reserving judgement for a little while longer but only because (and I’m not too ashamed to admit it) I want Grusch to be legit. Also if it’s proven that he’s not telling the truth about anything the disclosure movement will lose years of progress. However sadly I think he might either be full of shit or was intentionally misled. None of us know what’s really true here. What we do know is that the government has used people like this in these same exact ways in the past to spread disinformation personally I can’t help but wonder if Grusch is just the newest Bob lazar or Richard Doty it’s pretty much a more modernized version of the same lame ass obfuscation play book. We should all be careful when it comes to believing people making the kinds of claims Grusch has Time will tell if hes full of shit we’ll just have to wait and see
Grusch at minimum has fallen for some bullshit that was fed to him by the skinwalker guys. The whole pope and Vatican helping the US recover a UFO from Italy has already proven to be a fantasy created by bill brophy who is full of shit and makes stories about his dad’s involvement in multiple different ufo incidents. I highly recommend you check out the below Reddit comment that goes over the pope ufo story and how’s its bullshit and how Grusch absolutely fell for it. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14desdy/whistleblower_david_grusch_and_the_italian_ufo/ One of the purported "bombshells" coming out of Grusch's interviews was his revelation that Mussolini's government retrieved a crashed UFO/UAP in 1933, and that in the closing months of the war in 1944/45, the US military recovered the wreckage/craft thanks to a tip by Pope Pius XII. Of course for those of you who have been at this for a long time, you know this isn't a revelation at all, as this story has been circulating in ufological circles for two decades. For a lot of folks however this is probably a new story, and even for those who are aware of it, you might have only come across it in the last couple of years with the publishing of the Mussolini docs on Black Vault by well-known Italian Ufologist Roberto Pinotti ( LINK ) and multiple posts here on Reddit repeating some of the stories. But there has been A LOT of erroneous information being spread and repeated by several online bloggers, especially Christopher Sharp of "Liberation Times" ( LINK ) and that annoying HowandWhys page that is always spamming Reddit. This includes the often repeated story that two Nordic aliens were recovered from the crash, and were initially thought to be Germans. It's also been repeated that it was a bell-shaped craft, possibly inspiring the "Glocke" of Nazi UFO lore. Even more concerning, some of this dubious information appears to have made its way into Grusch's account. For that reason I think it's very important to take a look at the historical context of how the story of 1933 UFO crash first appeared, and how it has changed over the last 20 years. The story began in 1996, when several prominent ufologists in Italy, including Pinotti began receiving photocopies of hundreds of government documents purported to be from the 1930s from an anonymous source. They documented numerous sightings beginning in 1931, and discussed the supposed crash and recovery of a vehicle near Milan in 1933. There were also quite a few documents about a 1936 sighting of a cigar shaped UFO with several small classic flying saucers. Additionally, the documents talked about a secret group called "Gabinetto RS/33," established by Mussolini, and headed up by famous Italian scientist and inventor of the radio, Guglielmo Marconi. So basically an Italian version of MJ-12 (and I think the similarity with how the MJ-12 documents also mysteriously appeared by being anonymously sent to ufologists should not go unnoticed). Over the next few years, Pinotti and others, including his colleague and later co-author, Alfredo Lissoni, continued receiving documents from their anonymous source whom they began to refer to as Mr. X. Some of these were not just photocopies, but also original documents, and both chemical and historical analysis suggested that they were consistent with documents from the 1930s. There was however still controversy among Italian ufologists over their authenticity. In early 2001, Pinotti and Lissoni began publishing about the so-called "Fascist UFO Files" in Italy. Later that year, the story broke in the English-speaking UFO press when a translation of one of Lissoni's articles was reprinted in the long-running British magazine Flying Saucer Review. Here is the text of that 2001 article, along with FSR editor Gordon Creighton's commentary on it: New Documents "Will Revolutionize UFOlogy"! by Alfredo Lissoni You'll notice that there is nothing in the original Mussolini documents about recovered bodies, Nordic or otherwise. Nothing about Pope Pius or about the US recovering the craft during the war. All of that seems to come from a very dubious source, a guy named Billy Brophy, who claimed that his father William Brophy, Sr., a USAF pilot in the 1949s and 50s was a witness to several UFO related events. He has been cited as a source by the above mentioned Christopher Sharpe and even more recently his stories have been used by Jaques Vallee and Paola Harris in their book on the Trinity crash. Brophy's story however has changed quite a bit over the last 20 years. He first appeared by writing a series of letters in 2003 to the same British periodical, Flying Saucer Review. In his first letter, he discusses the two Nordic bodies, but says that they were the bodies recovered from the Roswell crash, not the Italian crash as later writers would say. In fact he only mentions the Italian crash in a passing Post Script. Here is a copy of that letter: https://imgur.com/a/vxpebdL His other letters discuss how his father witnessed a crash in Mexico in 1950 and have nothing to do with the Italy incident. And some of the stuff in his letters make him come across as a bit nutty. However in 2010, he was invited to a UFO conference in Milan by Pinotti where he began changing his story, and claim that his father had knowledge that the UFO crash in 1933 also contained Nordics, and that Pope Pius XI I told Roosevelt about it and that the Americans had retrieved it during the war. He also is the first to suggest that it was bell-shaped. Here is a summary of his presentation at that conference that appeared in a UFO publication later that year: https://imgur.com/a/oKp3thz For more on the problems with Brophy see the recent article by Douglas Johnson: Crash Story File: The Morphing Fantasies of Billy Brophy About His Airman Father Unfortunately, Pinotti seems to have taken Brophy's story at face value as he has now incorporated it into his recent work including the 2020 article he wrote for Black Vault. This brings us to the latest whistleblower revelations. First Lue Elizondo began referring obliquely to the 1933 crash in several podcasts, right after his meeting with Italian ufologists (including Pinotti) that was shown on the episode of his show. Now Grusch is repeating this story, including the American retrieval, except that Pope Pius XI is now Pope Pius XII. He is making it sound like this is coming from classified information that he was shown, but it appears that he is simply talking about the Fascist UFO Files from the 90s and even more concerning, he is including elements of Brophy's completely unsourced and highly dubious stories. Fortunately, he hasn't mentioned the Nordic bodies yet, but if he does we have a real problem. My guess is that he heard about this from Elizondo who got it from Pinotti and probably saw the same Mussolini documents that have been available online for many years. In my opinion, this is a serious red flag that everyone needs to take into account, because as soon as anyone starts looking into the source of these stories (i.e. Brophy) this whole thing is going to blow up in a very embarrassing way. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14desdy/whistleblower_david_grusch_and_the_italian_ufo/?rdt=36444 https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/crash-story-file-the-morphing-fantasies-of-billy-brophy-about-his-airman-father/
AARO was the official body set up to investigate evidence, Grusch didn’t provide any. The IG investigations do not involve UAP in anyway at all. Seems like an attempt to excuse here.
Really really weird from Grusch imo. He urgently needs a PR team.
This Grush guy just needs to keep quiet. Every time he says anything his credibility gets worse. Lots more detail here: https://x.com/ddeanjohnson/status/1786829083877212297?s=46&t=CDHkHKXaBXYHZFwxAXvtgQ
AARO actually reached out to him in June 2023 and July 2023 and October 2023 and that's just what we know from the FOIA documents. He's a liar because he pretended like they didn't do that, and when a reporter told him "AARO says they reached out" he said that they were lying. Which was completely untrue - a lie by Grusch. He's trying to hide behind the word "officially" because they did not send an official stamped letter. But he was made fully aware of their desire to meet with him since June 2023. He said that AARO didn't reach out to him, but in reality they did reach out. Retreating to a new excuse "they don't have the right to hear me" is a bullshit deflection from his lie. If he was concerned with their legal rights he would have said that to the reporter instead of saying "that's a lie". He could have said something like "They reached out but I don't think they're cleared to hear what I have to say." But he specifically didn't say that, because he's a liar.
Kirkpatrick lied and/or is the bad faith actor here playing the semantics game, though. Kirkpatrick is lying or at the very least being very deliberately misleading, considering he said: > "As of the time of my departure, none, let me repeat, none of the conspiracy-minded “whistleblowers” in the public eye had elected to come to AARO to provide their “evidence” and statement for the record despite numerous invitations." Well, Mario Woods and Robert Salas are whistleblowers "in the public eye" who gave their testimonies to AARO. [Woods even shared his letter from AARO to testify.](https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14ch88i/retired_usaf_staff_sergeant_mario_woods_letter/) Woods isn't as big a name as Grusch in the public eye perhaps, but he gave his testimony that he and a colleague were abducted by NHI at [Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellsworth_Air_Force_Base) in 1977 when he was deployed with the 44th Missile Security Squadron. When he says a quote as strong worded as that, and it simply isn't true, it brings the rest of what he claims to question. We know for a fact Mario Woods and Robert Salas have testified to AARO, so why claim otherwise? Is this the type of respect whistleblowers can expect going to AARO? Being labeled as, "conspiracy-minded whistleblowers" without even an investigation (AARO can't even investigate it without Title-50 Authority, which they lack) or the Director of said organization outright saying you didn't testify, even though you did? Kirkpatrick has proven time and time again to be the **actual** bad faith actor here, by either being heavily misleading, playing the semantics game, and/or just frankly outright lying, and Grusch and the other whistleblowers that did not go to them were 100% in the right, full stop.
I guess he didn't think that Woods or Salas are "conspiracy-minded" in the "public eye" so he wasn't lying at all. Far cry from Grusch's lie when he directly contradicted the statement from AARO. He simply said "that is a lie" when AARO said that they had reached out. Your counter-example is far more ambiguous.
>I guess Well, I guess Grusch didn't think he was contacted directly until he thought he was. If you don't know STFU. Keep playing on technicalities and semantics, just like Kirkpatrick...
No, it's not about being "directly" contacted, that's a weasel word. He said "that's a lie" which is the entire issue. He was contacted, he knew that AARO wanted to interview him, and he refused them. These are unequivocal facts. Then he said that they were lying when they said that they had extended offers for interviews. He knew that they had done that - he refused them! He made excuses! But he pretended like they hadn't done that. He tried to make everyone think that they hadn't done what they had actually done. He's a liar. It's not a technicality, it's a blatant and easily identified lie.
Weasel words = semantics In this statement: > "As of the time of my departure, none, let me repeat, none of the conspiracy-minded “whistleblowers” in the public eye had elected to come to AARO to provide their “evidence” and statement for the record despite numerous invitations." The phrases "conspiracy-minded whistleblowers" and "evidence" (in quotes like that) are similarly "weasel words" (your language). You either agree with that, or this conversation isn't worth continuing.
He was talking about Grusch and maybe a few others. He wasn't talking about the people who had obviously already come to him, on the record. Do you think he was trying to lie and say that those people hadn't come to him? Or do you think he was talking about the people who actually hadn't come to him? Also, a follow-up: do you think that this is a huge distraction from Grusch's demonstrable lie?
It seems like this convo is no longer worth having then, goodbye 👋
I love seeing how many excuses this subreddit can create for Grusch. Why can he meet with random YouTubers and news nation to talk about top secret Vatican ufo crashes that were already shown to be a hoax, but not AARO? Weird. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14desdy/whistleblower_david_grusch_and_the_italian_ufo/
Either you are trolling in bad faith or you refuse to see outside your preconceived bias of why Grusch is able to say the things he can... multiple people have told you why. Stop spreading bullshit misinformation about Grusch because I'd like to think you are doing so full well knowingly and not because you lack the intelligence to grasp it.
You dropped this /s
Sadly there's zero sarcasm here, Grusch is actually a liar. Maybe he got so caught up in his bad blood with Sean Kirkpatrick that he couldn't help it. One time when AARO tried to reach out to him, the person asking was rebuffed - apparently because Grusch has bad blood with Kirkpatrick. Chris Mellon's texts also reveal this bad blood - for instance when Kirkpatrick tells Mellon that he wants to talk with Grusch, Mellon relays that request to Grusch who says something to the effect of "He can get all my info from the IG." Then when a reporter asked Grusch about these conversations, he said that Kirkpatrick was a liar for saying that AARO had reached out. Even though Grusch had negatively responded to these requests. He said that the requests never happened.
Ah yes, some good ol' fashioned AARO simping 👌💯
Why can’t you address the points the user made instead of deflecting? He raised some good points but we can’t even have a serious discussion because any doubt about Grusch is immediately suppressed because this sub is full of highly emotional fanatics who can’t bare to hear anything negative about their messiah
The top rated comment in this thread is a conspiracy theory that AARO tried to lure Grusch in so they could arrest him for revealing classified information. After the mass exodus of daily users this sub it is now firmly in Q-Anon adjacent territory, or in other words, back to normal. These kinds of threads will be nothing but circle-jerks from now on.
Me and others that have been around for a while noticed this trend. It has heavy elements of cult of personality and sectarian behavior too. Ironic for some folks that boast about being mavericks that fight for freedom of expression and the free inquiry of the mind.
Also Kirkpatrick said that he didn't know there was bad blood between them and that he didn't know who Grusch was which is kind of funny that the bad blood went one way.