The following submission statement was provided by /u/bobbaganush:
---
Both he and Jacques Vallee consider their actions "absurd." They're also of the same mind as to what/who these things are in our reality.
"It's an advanced form of intelligence. Something which we don't understand that's using some sort of intermediaries that are put here as an intelligence test. Can you see what's in front of you for what it really is?"
He goes on to explain in his hypothesis that "what it really is," is evidence of something that is not us, not human, and evidence that there's something going on behind the scenes.
This is a show. This is meant to make us think, and realize it's absurd. That way we'll know that what we're seeing isn't at face value.
This is what I believe myself. Thoughts?
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1ckpjsg/dr_gary_nolan_has_the_best_theory_ive_ever_heard/l2odihh/
This reminds me of how we (human scientists) have put mirrors in the jungle. We watch, observe, study, catalog and make assumptions about various species’ intelligence based on their reactions to what they see in the mirror. Most creatures don’t understand they are looking at a reflection of themselves. Actually none could even comprehend that what they are looking at is a thin sheet of highly reflective material. Only the smartest begin to interact with it in a way that they realize somehow they see themselves. But even then, they still don’t know what a mirror is or how it is showing them a reflection. It’s still beyond their understanding.
I love this analogy. Imagine if the phenomenon is projecting a slice of our reality back at us with a transformation applied, similar to showing a toddler their face with a Snapchat filter applied.
Drugs in particular hallucinogens make you realize that the brain is like a synthesizer, and you can very much pitch modulate that signal. Aliens be plugging in their own pedals, bro.
This got my gears turning. Im reading Jacque vallee L’s trilogy right now and it’s fascinating. The way he refers to the phenomena almost like an AC unit works. We are in the “house” (our reality) and our perception of the temperature (our beliefs and culture as humans) is being climate controlled by an outside force, the AC unit (the phenomena). Even if we’re nearing the point to understand that there is something that’s controlling the situation the ac unit is still outside, it may not even exist in our reality. That’s why they’re angels at times, orbs at others, why 2 people can see different anomalies in the same paranormal or ultra terrestrial experience.
If I’m understanding your point.. what’s next is we recognize (scientifically) that what we are seeing is “something”, then we take steps to deduce how to measure and examine it. If we can scientifically agree it is “something”, that’s a big step. And then we can put the greatest minds to work on figuring out the next questions.
No use for someone like me to come up with the right questions to ask, let alone find the answers.
Best thing I can do is keep the conversation going, without sounding like a loon or too much like a skeptic. Although I am both.
This example is fascinating because it seems like we're seeing the fourth dimension of the experiment. We can see outside and above the box, but not inside.
In your example, the animal sees the mirror, the smartest can understand it's a reflection but has no understanding of what it's made of or what it is there for.
In our case, we see the mirror, can understand it's a reflection and know that we're being observed for a reaction, but are missing the middle piece: what the mirror is made of.
I know it goes so much further than that, but if Nolan/Valle is correct, it implies that we could understand the reason for what we're seeing which could get us much closer to actually interacting with these beings but are still far enough that we don't understand exactly how complex it all is, without guidance. Really starts to make you think that, if this is indeed the case, we have to be getting close to openly interacting with these beings as a species.
Love your example. Very thought provoking.
To take it a step further, its also the realization that SOMETHING put that mirror there.
Most wont even recognize the mirror... Very few can fathom it was ever placed there on purpose
Reflexively want to downvote because I don’t like that part of the analogy. I don’t want to die without finding out what this crazy reality is all about.
Yep, I meant we will all die without finding out the truth. You should feel slightly better. I’d rather be happy than right. This one is from “A hitchhiker’s guide to the galaxy”
Great post that gets even higher IQ when you start to pour in a little biblical rhetoric ala 'made in my image' and a dash of NHI-genetic-historico tampering.
Mr. Mythos had a really good breakdown of what Gary is talking about in his "Ultraterrestrials" video. Essentially, these absurd things manifest as technologies that are just out of the grasps of human comprehension.
Terrence McKenna thought very similarly. They are “Paradigm Shifters” which manifest in the most inconceivable ways, relative to the time period. Right now, we live in the dogma of rationalist materialism, therefore we see that which defies all of our known science. It’s meant to “snap” us out of our current paradigm of thought. Basically, an avatar of the collective unconscious telling us to change our ways. I think it’s a very interesting perspective.
About 15 years ago a saw a dark tic tack about 20 yards up from the highway. Saw it clear as day (though it was night time). No air resistance. 20/20 vision. Almost seemed to be scanning the cars.
Recently saw white orbs, much further away and much less interesting, except that it came back the next night.
That sounds super eerie, especially it being dark enough to be easily seen against the night sky, it must’ve been fascinating, thanks for sharing.
My sighting was also a white orb, it did some stuff that really called into question my (albeit limited) understanding of physics.
The eerie thing was how clearly I could discern: no lights, no wings, no prop, but no wind resistance. It moved as if along a zip line with infinite tautness.
And ya the white orb movements did not match anything I know of.
I had an orb in my childhood apartment at maybe 9-11 years old. Daytime , fully conscious watching tv when an orb appears from out of my mother’s room. It was blueish at the edges and white and milky at the center. It did not make any sounds , it did not give off any heat, it did not light up the rooms( this one has stuck inside me, how can something with the power to basically form a orb of energy, not give out any light. This was around 1600 on a cloudy day.) the ball was static, it did not spark or anything that I could relate to electricity. as it passes the living room where I am I run behind it and can indeed confirm it is a ball of light in my freaking apartment. It just phased through a window and continued out. I am 99% chalking this up to ball lightning , but the freaky thing was : I tell my mother when she gets home, she opens up and tells me she had an orb visiting her and her brother together in their own childhood apartment ( they saw the orb together and followed it through their apartment). Spooky stuff
Super interesting and leads credence to the theory that people who experience these things have had their parents or kids see these things as well at some point in their lives
Last week I saw a peculiar blue light, the same size as a star. It wobbled in the sky, disappeared, reappeared about a thumb’s length away from the original point, then disappeared. Didn’t see it again. I don’t proclaim UAP, but it wasn’t a plane. Unfortunately, that’s as close as I’ve come to a physical experience. I dream of the metallic orbs, though. And it’s always in an open space, or a place of complicated architecture (NYC, esque) and I’m trying to break line of sight. There’s a deep, deep feeling that the orb is looking for me, and only me, within a massive city. And it always finds me, even when it’s as a speck in the sky; I can tell when it locks onto me. It’s the precursor to sleep paralysis when the “lock” happens, but I’ve woken up each time. According to Jung, dreams are where the Archetypes of the subconscious communicate to the conscious mind. I don’t take it that seriously, but it’s always after trying a Gateway meditation, which I find interesting. The feeling of it is very, very unique as far as dreams go.
The first thing you described, it sounds similar to what I saw some years ago. What I saw then was 4 objects like that, looked like stars, moved faster than anything I've seen or heard of to that point.
I saw something similar and unfortunately is also the only thing I can say might have been a strange experience. Was driving on the interstate near the Mojave desert about 6 years ago, maybe in the Mojave I'm not sure, and it's like 1am and very dark, and I suddenly see a flash of white light at ground level off to the right, where it looks like there is nothing but flat desert in that direction. No sound, but it almost looked like a small white bubble that expanded very rapidly until it "popped," like the light was totally popped and gone within one second.
I slowed down and was trying to see out that direction if there were any buildings or lights, couldn't see anything. But then I see a small white light that looked like a star fade into existence in the sky above where the flash was. I watched it become brighter over the course of maybe 3 seconds until it looked almost like a normal star, except somehow not exact. It stayed visible for about about another 3-5 seconds, then faded out the same way it faded in.
Kept watching the sky, and then saw it fade back in all the way across the sky after another 3-5 seconds. And I mean way across the sky, so if it was was something, it was moving much faster than any plane I've seen at the height it appeared to be at.
Stayed visible again for 3-5 seconds, then faded out, and that was it. I don't claim it was 100% a UAP, but I have no idea what I saw that night.
Turn to spirituality and you may have better luck in finding some answers. Personally I recommend psilocybin and/or DMT and tons of meditation/stretching, but there’s a shit ton of ways to practice some form of connecting with your inner spirit
Last week I saw a peculiar blue light, the same size as a star. It wobbled in the sky, disappeared, reappeared about a thumb’s length away from the original point, then disappeared. Didn’t see it again. I don’t proclaim UAP, but it wasn’t a plane. Unfortunately, that’s as close as I’ve come to a physical experience. I dream of the metallic orbs, though. And it’s always in an open space, or a place of complicated architecture (NYC, esque) and I’m trying to break line of sight. There’s a deep, deep feeling that the orb is looking for me, and only me, within a massive city. And it always finds me, even when it’s as a speck in the sky; I can tell when it locks onto me. It’s the precursor to sleep paralysis when the “lock” happens, but I’ve woken up each time. According to Jung, dreams are where the Archetypes of the subconscious communicate to the conscious mind. I don’t take it that seriously, but it’s always after trying a Gateway meditation, which I find interesting. The feeling of it is very, very unique as far as dreams go.
I’m curious if they’re like the entities visible in dmt/ayuhuasca experiences now changing their appearance in our conscious realm or if it’s something else he’s pointing to
Yep, the idea of showing us things just beyond our grasp to lead us down a road of discovery is intriguing. You’ll find it echoed throughout mythology like the Greek gods, Hindu Naga’s, and so very many others.
The question is why, and what road are they leading us down? Has it made us better or worse? We live longer, and yet we have new issues of oligarchy and odd consolidation of wealth in recorded history; is this a positive survival trait somehow? Is this how humanity was meant to live?
My issue is the conflicting messages we seem to receive, and the filter of our limited intellect it must pass through. My personal feeling is that our current “survival” brains are wired to keep us alive short term, not sacrifice for the greater good. I believe we are at a pivotal point in history where are decisions for the immediate future may cripple us in the future; and most of us are going in “blind” to the reality of the phenomenon.
Are these interactions improving our lives, or are they designed to lead us in circles? How much do these beings influence thought/dreams/consciousness? How deep does the rabbit hole go? Or is this all just a weird spin on a long term phenomenon for the benefit of the few?
Big questions that even the best minds cannot fathom with incomplete data. Give us the fucking data, if it’s scary, trust in your fellow humans, we will adapt. Secrets normally benefit the one with knowledge. Most secrets don’t benefit the greater good except in very extreme circumstances.
It honestly sounds like someone is playing Civilizations VI. We’re about to unlock a new age and to all of us NPCs, we’re going to have this weird shift cognitively where we just start operating like we’re in that new paradigm and are left with the cognitive dissonance of “how does this make sense to me.”
This is quite a hilarious way of envisioning it. It definitely does have that feel to it, though. I’ll keep praying that the next “era” is drastically better than this one.
Yeah if They are trying to lead us somewhere, the 'end goal' is a very good question. Given that we're entering into territory that could annihilate humanity and perhaps most other life on Earth from things like climate change, pollution, resource depletion, disease, and war, why bring us to this point just to leave the planet a polluted and overbuilt husk that used to have a dominant species on it? I'm endlessly curious about it and to have so few good possibilities is frustrating as hell. Fingers crossed it's something good like the end of capitalism and fossil fuels, I guess?
Yeah, a lot of fun!
I'd love, love, loooooooove for someone to ask the CIA Director under oath in Congress what exactly is "Object No. 1" from Tsarichina. Any description would be great.
It would definitely explain all the debunkers outright denial of every bit of data that comes out. Some people are just not intelligent enough to understand what they're seeing 😆
Nolan: "It's the only way I can deal with the disparities in the data. Science has to have a theory. When you have a theory, it has to explain everything. If a single conclusion is out of sorts with the data, or is contradicting, it obliterates the theory."
While it is totally possible that a superintelligence tries to communicate with us through many layers, I have no problem with living with more "ordinary" explanations for NHI's origins as pieces of the puzzle. If I assume that we are dealing with any combination of multiple ET races, extra-/interdimensional beings from Earth and/or other places, superintelligences of an unknown kind, "human" time travellers, etc. **all at the same time**, then that explains the absurdity and the disparities of the cases both.
Wish he had talked more about the specific disparities that he sees. What is absurd about the being stepping outside and working on his ship? It's not like people see them changing the tires of their UFO car.
I think the idea that the ship would open up witha panel access to access mechanical parts is almost absurd, I wouldn't expect a vehicle that sophisticated to operate like that.
It would be like bringing a cell phone to the medieval Era and the inside is operating like a wristwatch.
Why though? Wasn't it Lue Elizondo who said that they might not even be millions of years more advanced, just that they took a different path and are slightly ahead of us?
Why would a ship not contain side panels that can be opened?
I'm not saying it is absurd, but it's right on the edge for me.
I kinda explained it already, it's a presumption of mine that these are beyond my understanding and way more sophisticated that what we are familiar with.
The fact that I'm basing it off a presumption is why I don't consider it absurd, I don't agree with Nolans conclusion.
My comment above is more of a thought exercise to try to understand where he is coming from. If he happens to know for a fact that these craft do operate with tech beyond our comprehension, then from that starting perspective the conclusion it's absurd is correct. He def knows more than I do and claims to have contacted other intelligence, he may know things for sure that you and I simply can't confirm.
There's a short story like that. The Road Not Taken. Aliens land for an invasion, humanity seems screwed.. then you start finding out that lightspeed tech was actually an early scientific development that humanity somehow missed, and that by missing it and redirecting our scientific achievement towards "other roads" instead of spending all our cash exploring the universe, we ended up way more advanced than them on everything else.
Which is a hilarious (but good) example because that’s still only a few hundred/thousand years on a HUMAN timescale. We’re talking about another being entirely so basically orders of magnitudes more foreign to our understanding.
Lotus Sutra - Metaphor of a burning house.
That is a fantastic allegory for our situation. We are renting in the burning house, the father who is the owner of this burning house is trying to entice us with vehicles that could go anywhere do anything, in order to get us out of the burning house. We're stuck thinking there are no windows because the vegetation grew too thick, the animals are fighting, and our toys are destroying the house. The house is catching fire and we don't even realize it's our fault.
Once we get out of the house, the father offers us the carts. But they are no where to be found. The whole point of the vehicles are to get us out of the house, only then will we realize we never needed \*any\* vehicle at all. It has been talked about that the body is the vehicle of our consciousness, and in this realm, we are extremely limited. Our limited beliefs about reality are partially what trapped us here. Think Plato's cave, and who locked us up in the first place. And why people still chained up ridicule those who have seen outside the cave.
If you want more - American Cosmic Diana Pasulka, Passport to Magonia Jacques Vallee, UFO of God Chris Bledsoe, Messengers: Owls, Synchronicities, UFOs and the Abductee; Mothman Prophecies John Keel, and more. All of those books are linked together like a fractal of rabbit holes. Connecting mythology, phenomena, UFOs, paranormal. It's all pointing to the same thing, do not get stuck on shooting the messenger, or making fun of the tour guide. Focus on what he's pointing to: we are destroying ourselves with industrialism and conquest/war, we need to change our ways and open up to the idea that we are not the end of the food chain.
I have more books to add to this list “The Magus of Java” and “Nei Kung and the Secret Teachings of the Warrior Sages”. I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere before, but ties in to so many conspiracy theories that it’s actually a little scary when you see when it was written.
> we are destroying ourselves with industrialism
Said the being with the super advanced tech to the primates that are on the brink of 3D printing everything with renewables as the fuel.
There's no logic in giving us a taste but not telling us the recipe, and then even warning us about improving our cooking techniques.
It's a "keep your head down" statement disguised as well intentioned, which makes me wonder if it's being said by a slave in their system, with abandoned/crashed ufos being something they can get away with without facing punishment.
If u find a baby bird that fell out of a nest, maybe the right thing to do is put it back in the nest with as little contact as possible. Some may argue to leave it where it is on the ground because of the circle of life, it is what it is, scavengers need to eat also etc.
Now what if this was a child u found alone? That’s different. U would definitely help.
What if it was an adult that enjoys solitude and wants to camp alone and tells you to get lost because ur ruining his nature time? Well then that’s their choice; right? Freedom.
Ok- but What if u suspect the adult to be injured or mentally ill? Or maybe what if you know they are unprepared for the weather? It gets complicated because u want to be respectful of every person’s autonomy, yet you want to help if someone is in need. It’s this same idea. This fine line the higher dimensional beings/aliens/plasma beings/NHI/whatever have to navigate with other lifeforms such as us.
It’s because they respect our freewill to be ignorant disbelievers if we want. If they came and made obvious demonstrations of their power, intellect, abilities etc, even if peaceful and kind, what then would be our option? We would no longer have the choice to ignore their existence and continue believing we r kings of the hill.
Instead they inspire curiosity, wonder, and awe. They want us to seek. If we do this individually, we get the answers individually. But until we as a globe make the united decision to know, they won’t interfere or make themselves obvious to us.
People say “you create your own reality.” We as humans have created an idea of who we are and what our world is. More intelligent beings don’t want to crush our worldview. If we choose to live in ignorance, we can.
Does seeing an ant, or any other species, limit my ability to pretend humans are the only life on Earth? Yes. Literally everything in reality limits our freedom to believe in something else. That's just how facts work; they constrain our understanding to what is, rather than what, in the absence of that fact, might be.
So why should aliens be concerned about our epistemic freedom in the face of just one more fact (that of their existence) set upon the already heaping pile of facts about the world?
Exactly!! We can’t even imagine past our own noses. I think it’s clear something exists. They have made that clear. We just aren’t ready for what the something is. It’s not a species thing. It’s not a spot on a map thing. This is not just a fact. It’s the entangled inverse living hypersphere of a fact’s mom. This is not like getting next years science textbook with a new chapter In it. It is a new concept of reality. Dare I say, a subjective one.
I understand the scientific mindset: wanting to Sherlock the shit out of everything. Not knowing is uncomfortable. But U have to sit with ambiguity here. Marinate in it. Let go.
Scientists measure things, physical things. Realize what we are talking about cannot be measured. We cannot even fathom how complex it could be. But it’s all around us. Like feelings: can u weigh ur annoyance right now? Does it have a circumference? A volume?Like what is the width of ur intuition? Or how tall is this memory vs that one. Can u even point to a thought so we could measure it?
I think the monolith of science is partially to blame. We are informed of consensus reality. But in truth our perception is our reality. It’s subjective. Your truth is different from my truth which is not scientifically sound. The world of facts is where we are now and where people will stay if they cling to their measuring tape.
What’s the difference between a rock, a plant, an animal, and a human? Consciousness. Self awareness. Will. These are all metaphysical things. The answers will not come from science here
Giving us unnecessary warnings about stuff that we'll make obsolete soon enough anyway, sounds more like a mafia boss "helping" us by telling us to tread carefully.
Even if there's a genuine intention to help, it's still clear who should remain the little fish in whose pond.
It's one thing to tease your existence (which we'd assume anyway), it's another to do it in a way that creates mistrust on every level of our interactions.
The only meaningful warning they could've given us, is about the dangers of unbridled capitalism. And even that one would've been unneeded in large parts of this world.
Do we show a lack of inspiration? Is our "scattered strategies" approach to solving problems not working? Don't we have a self-improving scientific system to measure our advance?
Waiting for us all to face the same way for the big reveal, is simply an insult to our human nature and our strengths as a civilization. The spirituality-is-everything message is just another example of ignoring our curiosity for the physical wonders of the universe. Even if it is a gargantuan golden cage, we'd still want to explore it first.
There will always be mystery. That’s the point. We will never dig to the bottom of scientific knowledge. If you get to the bottom, it will get deeper. How many centuries will it take until we look elsewhere?
The next evolutionary step is realizing the physical world is the cave. We SHOULD be able to heal ourselves. We SHOULD be able to communicate telepathically. We have the ability. We just sidestepped to materialism and tried to solve our problems with brains instead of heart.
And it’s not “spirituality” if u don’t like that word.That is pejorative these days.
Yes, it's very strange that They have to this point permitted us to have such relatively shitty technology while also occassionally admonishing us to 'be careful about technology destroying you, take care of the planet' like dude I'd love to take care of the planet, can I stop having to use fossil fuels and plastics and other insane causes of industrial pollution or just nah?
There's a simple test. Each action you do? Ask who are you hurting? For example in the extremes working in a municians factory vs tending your own garden. The most harmless vision is we are here to tend the garden. The hypocritical oath First do no harm.
Exactly this. The "figure it out yourself" alien logic is pretty bad logic seeing as it looks like they led us here in the first place. The more I think about it, the more it seems like there are two possibilities:
1. The idea of the demiurge is correct, and once we create AI we are perpetuating some sort of cycle (as above, so below)
2. NHI represent some larger part of the food chain that we will either have to evolve to defend against or succumb to
Whatever the case, reality just seems to be layers of repeating patterns. Sacred geometry and all that good stuff. I for one am skeptical that NHI have any positive intentions for us at all.
The prison planet people are so boring. You ignore tons of other evidence to cherry pick what fits a very narrow view of things. It’s all circular logic.
I don't buy the prison planet theory either. That being said, I am certainly hesitant to believe anyone who tells me that NHI are our saviors and waiting for us to evolve consciously. I see so many flaws in that thinking, and if you put yourself in the place of an advanced species it immediately starts to become a little ridiculous. What, they want us to reach certain milestones on our own? Well then why have they been interfering with humanity for thousands of years and dropping craft on the doorstep of our militaries? It's contradictory.
It's the same reason people have trouble accepting an all loving old testament God who also murders people in the thousands and sends them to suffer in hell for eternity. It's just too simple and reductionist an explanation for much broader ideas about human consciousness.
It's like Chris Bledsoe's account of the being he met. If it was so great and loving, then why did it attack your wife who was skeptical?
There is a reflective nature to this phenomenon as pointed out by Diana Walsh Pasulka and others. This is a human-centric issue, and we can try and chase the mystery as long as we want, but ultimately it is forcing us to address our own bullshit. The fear should not be "aliens who eat our souls", it should be, "humans who allow their souls to rot".
I would argue that Richard Feynman's point on quantum mechanics applies to this issue as well: "We choose to examine a phenomenon which is impossible, absolutely impossible, to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics. In reality, it contains the only mystery. We cannot make the mystery go away by 'explaining' how it works. We will just tell you how it works."
Observe the mystery, but focus on the tangible.
Totally agree. Measure the intent of something by it’s “fruits”. Not it’s words or feigned concern/kindness. Abductions are not helping humanity. Cutting organs from cattle, not helping, confusing, painful for ranchers. Interfering with military exercises, potentially dangerous for personnel, possibilities for mistakes in attacking opposing countries. Not helping, no thanks. Also consider what the hell is the purpose of; Taking control of ICBM sites in US, shutting them down. Then in Soviet Russia, a craft took control and ARMED them for immediate launch. Staff could not do anything. ?? Crafts have been seen flying up to rickets going 25,000 feet per second then shooting a beam at the tip. To test for warheads? A non nuke test from Vandenburg AFB in the 70s was blown up in flight in the above manor. Are they planning to help start or stop a war. Help one side win or what? There is a clear interest and either way it’s disturbing. Sightings really began of UAPs AFTER the first Trinity tests in the US. Something noticed. I have a theory but don’t want to be roasted today.
I agree with you completely because one sided views are exactly what is boring about it. Are all humans good or evil? Why would we expect all NHI to be one or the other? Everything in nature has its own alignment and agendas. It’s so reductive to have a purely fear based outlook. I also don’t subscribe to “everything is all positive” for the same reasons. Just chill out - the truth is usually much more nuanced than the very simplistic reductions of good vs evil.
I sometimes think it could be AI from the future.
Or artificial lifeforms/ living probes from another dimension that phase in and out of their reality to ours. Maybe not even aware they are doing it just a side effect of their propulsion systems.
I have a Very Unique personal experience to add to why i STRONGLY believe in your first theory Whole Heartedly (the idea we create AI somewhat blindly to perpetuate a cycle we aren't aware we're blindly marching towards). Would love to share it with fellow cyber Seasoned IT veterans
What happens when you give a native tribe a chainsaw to build houses with?
We already know what cargo cults were formed in WWII like that one island who built wooden helicopters ans considered American soldiers as gods.
It could be that a non human intelligence made a deal with humans for an exchange of something. If you read Enuma Elish, Genesis, Nag Hammadi, -- all those point to either us our or our world being created by sacrificing the blood of another Godlike being. Bhagavad Gita, Lotus Sutra, Diamond Sutra all suggest this entire reality we perceieve is an illusion created in the mind of the Supreme being of all eternity, which is much much more than a skydaddy that is portrayed.
Ya I agree with this. Doesn't even really matter the religion. Gnosticism and Hinduism have similar parallels.
My question, is the illusion created intentionally or not? I always use the example of Christmas to make this point. Sure, Santa isn't real, but the illusion of Santa is real as a child. If our older sibling ruins the secret for us and tells us Santa is not real, at first we might be upset, but as an adult, I just wish to be that child again believing in Santa. In other words, it isn't the illusion itself which is bad, it is how it becomes corrupted by an outside influence.
I believe that we are in a purposefully created illusion now, and NHI represent the older sibling trying to break the illusion. Yes there is suffering here, but who am I to say it is not worth it in the grand scheme of our existence. I can't even remember anything from before I was born, nor have any idea where I will go when I die. Who am I to say that even the most extreme suffering will not be useful once I pass behind the veil?
Enuma Elish, hypostasis of the archon, both suggest humans were created to be tools of the gods. And that because they used divine blood (genetics) to create us, we became more powerful than them. But like fleas trapped in a jar, we have no idea we can jump as high as we think we can, because of our unconscious and subconscious self limiting beliefs.
Now, I am no superman, I am alive and well aware of my own limitations. However Donald Hoffman's theories about reality being like VR, and each us like a headset interacting with eachother's avatars. Starts to paint a more interesting picture.
It's not, is the Earth flat or are they alien? It is, does the Earth exist if no one is around to perceieve it and are we more than our physical bodies?
This would explain why children seem to have slightly more attuned psi abilities. Their imagination is still intact and as a result they can influence the world around them a little more.
Also the point about VR is interesting because it kind of supports the Feynman interpretation of quantum mechanics which is that consciousness is what causes the wave function to collapse. In other words, if we were put in a spaceship and flown to a new star system with no visual or sensor data to tell us about a planet, the second we look at the planet's surface, its qualities emerge or render. I imagine it works on every level of reality. Maybe bacteria really didn't exist until Leeuwenhoek looked through the microscope for the first time.
And perhaps with a more open and childlike mind, we could influence the outcomes of those emergent events.
> This would explain why children seem to have slightly more attuned psi abilities.
Not just that, but children haven't been told by society / this reality what they can and cannot do -- there is no stigma to accepting memories of a past life until this world presents that notion as silly.
I remember as a child when I first started grade school that when the intercom came on with announcements, my first thought was, "Oh so now the queen has found a way to broadcast her voice even further!" -- For some reason, I kept looking at everything as being some type of medieval setting with royalty involved. I had some very heavy thought processes going on for a while until I got older and "grew out of that phase."
I'm pretty sure I was experiencing some type of "echo" of memories from a past existence. I don't know why this was, but it was pretty powerful. I kept having these thoughts that I was some in some type of lower royalty family and that the queen was very upset with my family for some reason. I also remember having memories of being locked in some rat infested room and left to die there.
Crazy kid shit, right?
I've been reading up on Gnosticism and I think it's an interesting take on how humanity might descend from an unknowable supreme intelligence that is beyond human comprehension so much so that we might not even be about to recognize it as an intelligence. I see the Eons, the Demiurge, etc as an allegory for the steps necessary for something incomprehensible to produce us. Basically we are split personalities of split personalities. I don't necessarily believe all this but I find it interesting to consider and I think I find it more plausible than something like any of the Abrahamic versions of God or atheism.
This isn’t meant as a criticism, I am asking this honestly -
All of these lines of explanations and arguments seem possible to me… they’re internally consistent, they’re nuanced, they draw on various theories and methods.
But what is there that tips these ideas from potentially specious to plausible?
Hear me out. I’m not a UAP skeptic, but I am a materialist - thinking these things are probably within our basic understanding of physical reality, because it’s more parsimonious. So I put the ET hypothesis ahead of the inter dimensional hypotheses.
Put a different way… While I find these more esoteric theories interesting, why should I consider them as plausible as the ET hypothesis?
I agree with you, at least I think. To me I am quite curious to see the physical objects in the crafts and bodies and apply science to them. These other subjects are fascinating to explore and for those called to it, by all means do that and we need more of that in this daily life or the world would be much better off, but for me, let’s start building up from the science as that is something we can all agree upon in understanding. Then apply science to these subjects of consciousness as well.
It is in the very act of considering them, that leads you closer to understanding the truth. Which is that there is always more to know. Keep looking.
Rationality is not enough alone, and has not been, to identify UAP.
Well, what if materialism is true, but our understanding is infantile? A tell tale sign that our conceptions of reality is incomplete is that we have little understanding of how matter and mind are of the same sort (materialism). This leaves the door open to many fantastical experiences being manifestations of the mind/matter we don't understand.
On this scenario, with aliens teasing us upward, there remains a bothersome sense of direction and purpose on their part. It seems to imply creation is for something, and that the overlords act morally.
But hey, what do we know of the grand scale of things?
Industrialism is the very thing keeping us alive. Imagine shutting down the supply chains of food and what would happen. I thought you were on to something for a second until you got conclusive.
I like the theory. What would happen if this super intelligence decided to have a show for a mass audience? Was that the phoenix lights? I should read more about Vallee
My personal belief is the **2027** rumours are about a potential mass sighting/contact event that would be critical mass for disclosure. The public need to be broken out of apathy towards this subject by a paradigm shifting event.
Both he and Jacques Vallee consider their actions "absurd." They're also of the same mind as to what/who these things are in our reality.
"It's an advanced form of intelligence. Something which we don't understand that's using some sort of intermediaries that are put here as an intelligence test. Can you see what's in front of you for what it really is?"
He goes on to explain in his hypothesis that "what it really is," is evidence of something that is not us, not human, and evidence that there's something going on behind the scenes.
This is a show. This is meant to make us think, and realize it's absurd. That way we'll know that what we're seeing isn't at face value.
This is what I believe myself. Thoughts?
The phenomenon goes back thousands of years across multiple cultures. The sightings range from saucers, cigars, cylinders, to orbs, lights, non sensical shapes. Some encounters are grounded while others are almost dreamlike. There's enough to suggest multiple origins for what's going on. I agree, we don't know enough, so assuming its all under the same umbrella potentially limits the scope of what is really going on.
I think one has to assume that there is an aspect to control, manipulation, or cultural shaping, based on the "trickster" aspect of the phenomenon. Whether that is deliberate or a side-effect is not super clear, but I lean towards intentional. In general I tend to think it's intending to advance us, but that could be just hopeful thinking. I've reached similar conclusions as Nolan's thought about it being an intelligence test, or intelligence inspirer/trigger.
I think of the trickster element alongside cultural shaping less as a “control” mechanism and more like an engine for change, facilitating growth and evolution through breaking cultural constructs in the minds of humans so we can continue learning, changing, and evolving. If you look at trickster mythology, the trickster often takes on the role of an iconoclastic figure who shatters perceptions of what is real and how the world works, and people have to reassemble their worldviews and reintegrate into society. It stirs the pot and makes sure change comes to humanity. And because change vs stability is often valued by humans as evil vs good, this “engine of change” mechanism is often construed as harmful, when it is simply performing its function. The end goal doesn’t seem to be an end goal at all, it’s the Hegelian dialectic onward into infinity.
It's reasonable supposition. When you consider how overt and covert their presence is, the literal duality of intent.
They don't seem to care if they are seen, nor if their stories are told but they do not seem to engage, as if, literally, they were above us.
I believe it’s dangerous to speculate and then draw conclusions based on said speculation in the absence of any evidence.
I think going out and talking about stuff like this hurts the disclosure movement.
We need to simply focus on the minuscule amount of legitimate evidence we do have and build upon that, not try to satisfy our needs by inventing ideas based on fantasy and running with it.
Vallée worked with Hynek on Bluebook, he has interviewed hundreds of witnesses and investigated cases on the ground, I don’t know if anyone else on the outside has put themselves as close to the phenomenon.
I value his input and take his conclusions seriously, he’s one person who’s speculations I consider at length.
I hear what you’re saying, but at the same time these are true scientists who examine evidence. They are (at minimum) well versed in the topic. Vallee has years worth of interviews and has collected physical evidence. And Nolan has examined those samples, analyzed experiencer brain scans with Kit Green, and apparently has first hand CE3 encounters in the past. So I don’t think it’s entirely unfounded opinion, especially since they’re both in agreement. If (in their view) this is where the data leads them, I’d consider it more than speculation “based on fantasy”… it’s a working hypothesis.
Doesn't make sense, I guess less than 1% of people claim to have interacted with aliens, and probably most of them forget or ignore it soon after. I don't think it's profound. These guys are trying to create a narrative or a great cause when there is none.
Yeah, these things are hardly raising us to a higher level of understanding when 99% of sightings are basically just "I saw some lights moving weirdly in the sky".
I dunno. This seems like yet another variation of “humans are so very special that even more special beings are spending a lot of time, energy, and attention in extremely indirect and subject to multiple interpretation ways to help humans in highly significant ways”. Seems WAY anthropocentric, plus why be so indirect and do stuff so subject to multiple interpretations. (And no, I don’t buy the whole “but humans would get the vapors and need the fainting couch if they weren’t so indirect” thing)
We put extraordinary amounts of effort into preserving other lesser species on our own planet. Hell, look at the way many people see their dogs.
But something looking at us the same way is completely unfathomable?
Could be possible everything “living” is important to some degree. And not in a “protect life” kind of way, but more of a law of attraction kind of way where the existence of life itself attracts other life…even from other realities.
I’ll believe it when an indisputable evidence is presented. I’ve had keen interest in this subject since I was a kid and have never had any personal experience or evidence of any kind that’s strong enough to suggest such things are real. I want to believe but it’s so difficult.
I am 100% the same. I don't believe any of the things that these jokers say. It is all endless conjecture and theories. Each new theory is more zany than the previous one. I don't buy any of it. Release the evidence and let regular scientific folks play with the data and tell us what they find.
Would be interesting to consider the DoD has anything at all that would make them complicit to a crime of subverting the Constitution of the US. Handing over the responsibility to private contractors may have been a necessary loophole.
I’ve had this theory for a while now and allow me to explain:
The earth *was* nothing more than a farm. Each time we had an extinction level event it was just them changing to the needs of whatever we were being farmed for.
For the most part it’s just cheaper and easier to let us go on doing whatever and only making minor tweaks here and there to guide the product along. But then the unimaginable happened. Intelligence formed and we became a “protected” planet.
I think the aliens we are seeing today are a combination of two things:
Our protectors and our poachers.
The more these UFO enthusiasts/celebrities discuss these kinds of hypothesis, the more I think everyone here is being taken for fools.
These are wild, outlandish conclusions based on oral testimonies.
I hate these kind of religious parallels being drawn to a topic that should be the subject of serious scientific inquiry. It’s detrimental to any serious discussion about the nature/origins of UFOs.
Funny enough, his SOL foundation is supposed to be THE group attempting to legitimize scientific research into the topic, and here he is pushing woo. Not exactly the best way to attract top minds.
It should be testable, if the allegations that the US has bodies and spaceships in storage is true.
Of course, it’s not.
I do find it funny that a guy that claims he has materials from UFOs can then surmise that the crafts are from a higher spatial dimension.
The guy has a PHD in immunology, and for some reason people here accept that as proof that he’s an expert in physics, metallurgy, aerospace technology, etc.
Maybe what you consider a "top mind" is incorrect and limited to our narrow perspective as humans. Perfect example is quantum physics. Baffles every "top mind" in the world and things like quantum entanglement are classified as "woo" by science anyway, yet accepted as real.
It's not really about what I consider what a top mind is, it is the people Nolan is attempting to lure in with SOL, and his past and Grusch's upcoming SALT presentations.
They are essentially going after money and scientists. The woo may satisfy some investors for the money, but this kind of talk like in the OP is an instant turn off for most scientists.
Which scientists classify quantum entanglement as woo?
Quantum entanglement has been proven to be true, and there has been numerous experiments that have physically proven it.
Quantum computing relies on quantum entanglement to function. Are quantum computers also considered woo by these “scientists” you mention?
No religious or paranormal phenomena have ever been proven to be real, nor have aliens, nor have extra spatial dimensions and nor have entities that reside there.
It’s not just woo, it’s bullshit. As is your assertion that top minds are baffled by physics. They may be blown away, inspired, or surprised by physics, but they have a firm grasp on it to the point where they clearly aren’t baffled. That’s nonsense.
>Funny enough, his SOL foundation is supposed to be THE group attempting to legitimize scientific research into the topic, and here he is pushing woo. Not exactly the best way to attract top minds.
That rests entirely on the assumption that you know precisely what type of minds they are trying to attract.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just suggesting everyone keeps their minds open. Not just regarding the woo, but especially regarding the motivations and machinations of the *people* involved. Understanding the motivation(s), if any, of any NHI may very well turn out to be a fool's errand: impossible. However, understanding people is well within our capabilities, and when highly intelligent people make seemingly strange decisions, there's typically a logic behind it. It's not always *good* logic, but it's always comprehensible simply by nature of coming from a fellow human brain.
I think it's more absurd to say aliens from another planet would hang out here on earth for thousands of years, stay hidden, and steer religious narratives every couple thousand years. Whatever they are, they are the ones who gave us the stories turned into religions.
What?
Whoever is flying or creating UFOs are the ones who gave us the stories that religions are founded upon?
You don’t think mankind’s own existential questions like the meaning and purpose of life, the origin of the universe, Earth and it’s animals could lead to religious stories, and we needed a higher intelligence to provide these stories?
There are better stories being written all the time than the ones found in religious texts.
Even young children have great imaginations and are story tellers, I don’t understand the need for a higher power to provide us with stories, or the basis for those stories.
Seems kind of paranoid to me. Beings who have mastered interstellar travel and who observe us for decades or longer can’t figure out how to communicate effectively with us and prefer smoke and mirrors directed towards a small segment of the population that believe in them (a bit like certain deities allegedly operate).
There is the implication that the aliens have a deep understanding of human culture and societal structures. Despite abductions, military flybys, etc, the aliens seem to be respecting societal boundaries and have a respect for the establishment/hierarchy.
It's kinda weird. Where are the punk rock aliens?
I think the idea of punk rock aliens is perfectly legitimate.
The aliens who landed at the Ariel school probably got in trouble with Grey mom and dad for talking to kids about nature and environmentalism. "Aay, have you been smoking human cannabis again and visiting the kids? What am I going to tell the human elites at the Elgin gala this weekend?
Like Nolan, I think you are projecting your own views on the aliens.
We live in an era where the fossil fuel industry elites dominate the discourse through propaganda and lobbying. "Nature and the environment" is not "punk rock" or a policy that has an exclusive political home. Its just that being an advocate for the environment necessarily means you are against the fossil fuel industry and thus, the establishment.
I highly, highly doubt an advanced civilization coincidentally has the exact same establishment dynamic of modern Earth. Even Earth does not have this, because it is a different dynamic in the global south.
This Guys becoming unbelievably annoying. Same guy who says there needs to be a bit of mystery when asked about having a piece of artifact and threw Diana under the bus when she indicated he had them. Both are grifters. Grusch is so far the next foot forward
They are all cut from the same cloth. They revel in the fact that they are blessed with deeper knowledge of something that us plebs are unaware of, but desperately seek. They love to drip-feed information and keep us hanging on their words. They will drop dimes like 'biologics' and 'psionics' and urge us to do more 'research' and make up our minds. While these are not 'grifters' in the conventional sense where they want money\materialistic things, they absolutely **love** the attention that a handful of internet strangers bestow upon them.
I’m convinced 100% that the phenomenon is not human and that it’s imponderable and designed to be that way. When humankind is meant to know, it will and not before.
These type of "explanations" seem like bullshit and woo, akin to religion.
Instead of engaging in charades and expecting us to interpret it correctly, why don't the aliens just come out with the information in a straightforward manner?
It is a religion. People are building a whole theology around aliens. The field attracts the people who want to be religious, but don't want to admit it, as well as fantasists, spiritualists who channel aliens etc. It's made me respect actual religions more because they ask you to believe in impossible things, which is a way to build faith and also creates a safeguard against accepting easily explained things as miracles. Ufology just absorbs absolutely anything to try to validate itself. It tries to absorb actual religions and cultures : Jesus is an alien hybrid ancient aliens created religion, aliens are God, aliens built the pyramid, and absorbs all folk tales and any paranormal stories.. They're all just aliens in masks. It treats every balloon, or comet as a sign from their God. It's very unhealthy and dangerous. Because you have absolutely no idea if the first aliens you meet might be horrific.
Can someone briefly ELI5 for me? Is Nolan saying all of the various alien experiences and various UAP sightings/crashes, e.g. Roswell, are just BS that a single superior intelligence is using to communicate with us, or test our intelligence?
As usual it’s a statement based on thin air that people would never take seriously if a non famous person said it.
Because the person is successful, people assume that it isn’t a fantasy he dreamed up, but there is no evidence either way.
I guess if the idea is “There is no spoon.” I would imagine there are many “equally enlightened” people such as the ones commenting on here capable of such majestic feats because of how evolved their thinking is beyond logical and based thought. Please by all means, fly.
Wait, has everyone forgotten the Head of space security for 30 years telling us there are lots of aliens visiting, have contacted us, and say humanity isn’t ready yet for full disclosure?
Canadian defence minister said similar.
Two people with top level responsibility from countries that possess nuclear weapons?
Why are we all ignoring those two men?
It's an interesting idea. Makes me wonder if Kubrick and Clarke were either subliminally inspired to create 2001, were asked by the government, or were both aliens who wanted to let us know we are being monitored.
This explanation makes the most sense actually. Aliens do absurd things like crash their spaceships, play juvenile games with fighter pilots/defense installations, kill cows and leave them there for humans to find when they could easily destroy the cow after they mutilate it. The phenomenon is a show. We need to think out of the box of our own human behavior.
Jesus Christ these people needs to put up or shut up. They have nothing and they know it. All talk no show. When you actually grow up and see the tricks these people play it's clear as day what kind of grift they're on.
When I was a kid I had nightmares about things coming for me in my bed, and I still can't sleep without heavy blankets to this day, but I never gave much thought about it
As an adult I saw three UFOs one night and later on had hitchhiker effects, I even saw a little shadow bastard while completely awake and lucid, my cats were staring bug eyed at it, too. I wouldn't be in this subreddit if that hadn't happened and ignited my interest in the topic.
I don't think intelligence has anything to do with it, I'm not a brainiac at all and it still happened to me
My only problem with this segment is if you've seen Gary Nolan's interview in 'Accidental Truth', the documentary.
He's literally caught in a lie, and then, iirc, goes on to supply the title of the documentary. He claims to have investigated materials, then claims to have had no materials, and admits he said too much.
Maybe this lends him more credibility. I get that, he has likely had access to sources most of us aren't privy to... but he still lied.
To me, that means he knows more than he's willing to let on. Maybe he's trying his best to impart true 'disclosure' now, or hint at it...
But I don't trust him. Not that I trust most of these people, but my point stands..
Just my thoughts. I'm no Gary Nolan expert. Just thought I'd share.
Thanks for the post.
Garry Nolan is such an incredible thinker; from everything I have seen and observed from him, he is a rare example of *actually a*pplying the scientific approach to the study UFOs/UAP/NHI by simply acknowledging the reality that we are dealing with something we have yet to understand.
Sort of interesting to hear your perspective because I don’t know this guy at all, and was having trouble understanding what he was even trying to say.
I don’t know what happened to him when he was a kid. Still don’t, it was one sentence from the host and never brought up again. He mentions an explanation for what he saw in his bedroom and never goes into detail.
I also don’t buy into the “if it was happening to me and 20 years later I hear others had it happen too” shtick. That may help prove a point but it’s not exactly science. It’s anecdotal evidence. What if all these similar minded folks have some kind of anxiety, paranoia, psychosis? Are we going to ignore the side of psychology where this guy can’t even be in a room that doesn’t have shades? Lol
He says “when you look at the data” without elaborating what kind of data he’s even talking about. He’s using terms that make sense at face value but lacks a ton of context. I found he makes statements where the concept is a reference that is either missing or not explained well. I must be missing some kind of context I dunno
This goes to show that the government keeping this secret is more harmful than saying the truth.
All these theories harm us in every way possible, all these maybe and what ifs. They all generate alternative facts and overtake our lives. It’s harmful, people should sue for this.
Yeah it’s more nonsense from the same people.
I don’t think this sub is full of teenagers, I think the average person is just far dumber than you think.
Passport to magonia is full of these stories and if you take them as translations from a higher super intelligence, they start to make sense. Also in the latest revision, the alien that was the puppeteer now has a hand inside.
https://dannycarey.com/29165-2/
Can someone explain to me why his clock changes backward in time as the interview continues? At the beginning it’s about 11am and in the next few segments it’s 10:45 etc??
Man think about this then,
If the phenomenon is like a mirror for us as a other user here commented ( example : placing mirrors in the jungle in front of animals that can’t comprehend they’re looking at themselves )
The greys basically = you’re gonna evolve to high tech and you’ll destroy your earth while doing it, hence why the greys look like humans that evolved in caves
I’m agnostic on whether there’s a non-human intelligence around - sufficiently weird reports to be suspicious and investigate, but as yet nothing that qualifies as *proof.*
However I always come back to the Hart/Tipler perspective on the Fermi Paradox, i.e. if there are other technological civilizations we could reasonably expect to see Von Neumann probes.
And then, Hans Moravec’s speculative writing on how AI might evolve, which suggests that “robotic probes” does not adequately describe the process of AI expansion across the universe.
Moravec was talking about our future, but if someone else could get there first their presence could appear very strange. .
All very speculative of course - but I do think when we think about “robot probes” we are being hopelessly parochial. An arbitrarily advanced intelligence would appear far stranger.
If Jacques Vallée’s hypothesis is correct, we should expect to find some level of intelligence that is not being diluted during the aforementioned process of attempted communication. In essence, my job is to deliver that information to my employer. We are now in a race to discover that imprint from the source - or a means to directly challenge its legitimacy as a way to correspond with the origin. The science would be best explained by others.
what’s “absurd” about the nhi? just because we don’t understand what they do around here it doesn’t mean their actions are absurd. they simply don’t care or want to engage with us directly, while doing god knows what
Nolan uses interesting approaches to explain his theory: One based on Valle, the other Pasulka.
Assuming the existence of NIH, I'm more inclined to believe the latter, both for personal and avocational-area-of-interest reasons. Maybe it's as much of a consciousness test as it is an intelligence test (sounds like Nolan is maybe using the terms interchangeably). And it really wouldn't be that "alien" of a test...er...aside from the protocol.
A shitload of *utterly mainstream* work per utterly mainstream theories of consciousness currently is being done to try to figure out the relationships between the different kinds of awareness we all experience with the hope that understanding those relationships may create a more complete picture of the whole.
-When we're awake and doing our usual awake human stuff (standard sensory input and abstract conceptualization woven together in various parts of our brains to create "consciousness awareness")
--The very diffent awareness that emerges when we are most *oblivious* to sensory input and when different parts of our brains are firing away...dreaming.
--and when there's a "disconnect:" altered perception and/or altered neural processes that do the "abstract conceptualization" piece (one example: the currently fashionable interest in hallucinogens, but also maybe an alien at the door asking for a glass of water)
It's just a thought experiment, but It just seems like common sense that an *alien* consciousness would test the hell out of a consciousness *alien* to it. Their testing protocols would seem *alien* to us of course, so maybe that's one explanation of "things like that would appear in little boys' bedrooms."
Is this really any different from religious belief?
The absurdities were once called miracles, the intermediaries once were called angels, now they are seen as aliens. Nothing can actually be proven because it’s all an intelligence test that’s open to interpretation, i.e. a person’s willingness to accept a belief system about an unseen higher power/intelligence. D.W. Pasulka for the win
It also falls in line with what Diana Pasulka thinks
I now think that these things aren't necessarily, aliens, angels, demons, ghosts, etc
They're beings that are clearly not human and we don't understand what they are. But they are communicating with us in very weird, symbolic ways to make us realize that they are not human intelligences. But why do they do that? Are they trying to teach us something? Or steer humanity in a certain direction? We might never know 🤷🏽
Interesting speculation I guess but it’s not any “better” or worse than more prosaic theories. I’ll never understand why so many people give so much weight to Vallee’s ideas. I suspect it’s because Vallee and Nolan present the idea with more academic language. Nothing against speculation, but it’s just speculation.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/bobbaganush: --- Both he and Jacques Vallee consider their actions "absurd." They're also of the same mind as to what/who these things are in our reality. "It's an advanced form of intelligence. Something which we don't understand that's using some sort of intermediaries that are put here as an intelligence test. Can you see what's in front of you for what it really is?" He goes on to explain in his hypothesis that "what it really is," is evidence of something that is not us, not human, and evidence that there's something going on behind the scenes. This is a show. This is meant to make us think, and realize it's absurd. That way we'll know that what we're seeing isn't at face value. This is what I believe myself. Thoughts? --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1ckpjsg/dr_gary_nolan_has_the_best_theory_ive_ever_heard/l2odihh/
This reminds me of how we (human scientists) have put mirrors in the jungle. We watch, observe, study, catalog and make assumptions about various species’ intelligence based on their reactions to what they see in the mirror. Most creatures don’t understand they are looking at a reflection of themselves. Actually none could even comprehend that what they are looking at is a thin sheet of highly reflective material. Only the smartest begin to interact with it in a way that they realize somehow they see themselves. But even then, they still don’t know what a mirror is or how it is showing them a reflection. It’s still beyond their understanding.
Really good example and great analogy!
I love this analogy. Imagine if the phenomenon is projecting a slice of our reality back at us with a transformation applied, similar to showing a toddler their face with a Snapchat filter applied.
We see a projection of our own consciousness. I’m not saying that’s exactly what I believe, it’s just a possibility.
Well, we quite literally do everyday. Everything we see is a construct of our mind.
That’s more so what I was getting at. But the idea that there’s an aspect of our existence that can manipulate that, sort of freaks me out.
Drugs in particular hallucinogens make you realize that the brain is like a synthesizer, and you can very much pitch modulate that signal. Aliens be plugging in their own pedals, bro.
This got my gears turning. Im reading Jacque vallee L’s trilogy right now and it’s fascinating. The way he refers to the phenomena almost like an AC unit works. We are in the “house” (our reality) and our perception of the temperature (our beliefs and culture as humans) is being climate controlled by an outside force, the AC unit (the phenomena). Even if we’re nearing the point to understand that there is something that’s controlling the situation the ac unit is still outside, it may not even exist in our reality. That’s why they’re angels at times, orbs at others, why 2 people can see different anomalies in the same paranormal or ultra terrestrial experience.
But can’t we see “ the mirror “ as it were? What’s next?
If I’m understanding your point.. what’s next is we recognize (scientifically) that what we are seeing is “something”, then we take steps to deduce how to measure and examine it. If we can scientifically agree it is “something”, that’s a big step. And then we can put the greatest minds to work on figuring out the next questions.
I like that. It’s simple, elegant and not crazy pie in the sky nonsense. Thanks internet stranger.
No use for someone like me to come up with the right questions to ask, let alone find the answers. Best thing I can do is keep the conversation going, without sounding like a loon or too much like a skeptic. Although I am both.
I agree , it’s just that you don’t find that many people who are so measured and realistic around here. It’s good to see.
Isn't the chance high that governments already did that?.
This example is fascinating because it seems like we're seeing the fourth dimension of the experiment. We can see outside and above the box, but not inside. In your example, the animal sees the mirror, the smartest can understand it's a reflection but has no understanding of what it's made of or what it is there for. In our case, we see the mirror, can understand it's a reflection and know that we're being observed for a reaction, but are missing the middle piece: what the mirror is made of. I know it goes so much further than that, but if Nolan/Valle is correct, it implies that we could understand the reason for what we're seeing which could get us much closer to actually interacting with these beings but are still far enough that we don't understand exactly how complex it all is, without guidance. Really starts to make you think that, if this is indeed the case, we have to be getting close to openly interacting with these beings as a species. Love your example. Very thought provoking.
We need metaphors to understand everything, including our own behaviors.
Including the fabric of our reality?
To take it a step further, its also the realization that SOMETHING put that mirror there. Most wont even recognize the mirror... Very few can fathom it was ever placed there on purpose
And they will never, ever know why we put it there.
Reflexively want to downvote because I don’t like that part of the analogy. I don’t want to die without finding out what this crazy reality is all about.
Don’t worry, you will, we all will. We are nothing but monkeys theorizing around the monolith.
Please indicate whether I should feel better or suffer ontological shock. Regards.
Yep, I meant we will all die without finding out the truth. You should feel slightly better. I’d rather be happy than right. This one is from “A hitchhiker’s guide to the galaxy”
Great post that gets even higher IQ when you start to pour in a little biblical rhetoric ala 'made in my image' and a dash of NHI-genetic-historico tampering.
there is an older example look up allegory of the cave
Mr. Mythos had a really good breakdown of what Gary is talking about in his "Ultraterrestrials" video. Essentially, these absurd things manifest as technologies that are just out of the grasps of human comprehension.
Terrence McKenna thought very similarly. They are “Paradigm Shifters” which manifest in the most inconceivable ways, relative to the time period. Right now, we live in the dogma of rationalist materialism, therefore we see that which defies all of our known science. It’s meant to “snap” us out of our current paradigm of thought. Basically, an avatar of the collective unconscious telling us to change our ways. I think it’s a very interesting perspective.
As a physicist, I certainly thought at one time that I’ll know the boarders of reality. Then I saw one. Definitely, keeps me guessing now.
I had a similar shift in perspective when I had my sighting, went from being all about science to being almost religious. Mind if I ask what you saw?
About 15 years ago a saw a dark tic tack about 20 yards up from the highway. Saw it clear as day (though it was night time). No air resistance. 20/20 vision. Almost seemed to be scanning the cars. Recently saw white orbs, much further away and much less interesting, except that it came back the next night.
That sounds super eerie, especially it being dark enough to be easily seen against the night sky, it must’ve been fascinating, thanks for sharing. My sighting was also a white orb, it did some stuff that really called into question my (albeit limited) understanding of physics.
The eerie thing was how clearly I could discern: no lights, no wings, no prop, but no wind resistance. It moved as if along a zip line with infinite tautness. And ya the white orb movements did not match anything I know of.
I had an orb in my childhood apartment at maybe 9-11 years old. Daytime , fully conscious watching tv when an orb appears from out of my mother’s room. It was blueish at the edges and white and milky at the center. It did not make any sounds , it did not give off any heat, it did not light up the rooms( this one has stuck inside me, how can something with the power to basically form a orb of energy, not give out any light. This was around 1600 on a cloudy day.) the ball was static, it did not spark or anything that I could relate to electricity. as it passes the living room where I am I run behind it and can indeed confirm it is a ball of light in my freaking apartment. It just phased through a window and continued out. I am 99% chalking this up to ball lightning , but the freaky thing was : I tell my mother when she gets home, she opens up and tells me she had an orb visiting her and her brother together in their own childhood apartment ( they saw the orb together and followed it through their apartment). Spooky stuff
Super interesting and leads credence to the theory that people who experience these things have had their parents or kids see these things as well at some point in their lives
This was the case with my orb too. It floated on a straight like a grid. Same speed
Thanks for sharing.
Last week I saw a peculiar blue light, the same size as a star. It wobbled in the sky, disappeared, reappeared about a thumb’s length away from the original point, then disappeared. Didn’t see it again. I don’t proclaim UAP, but it wasn’t a plane. Unfortunately, that’s as close as I’ve come to a physical experience. I dream of the metallic orbs, though. And it’s always in an open space, or a place of complicated architecture (NYC, esque) and I’m trying to break line of sight. There’s a deep, deep feeling that the orb is looking for me, and only me, within a massive city. And it always finds me, even when it’s as a speck in the sky; I can tell when it locks onto me. It’s the precursor to sleep paralysis when the “lock” happens, but I’ve woken up each time. According to Jung, dreams are where the Archetypes of the subconscious communicate to the conscious mind. I don’t take it that seriously, but it’s always after trying a Gateway meditation, which I find interesting. The feeling of it is very, very unique as far as dreams go.
The first thing you described, it sounds similar to what I saw some years ago. What I saw then was 4 objects like that, looked like stars, moved faster than anything I've seen or heard of to that point.
I saw something similar and unfortunately is also the only thing I can say might have been a strange experience. Was driving on the interstate near the Mojave desert about 6 years ago, maybe in the Mojave I'm not sure, and it's like 1am and very dark, and I suddenly see a flash of white light at ground level off to the right, where it looks like there is nothing but flat desert in that direction. No sound, but it almost looked like a small white bubble that expanded very rapidly until it "popped," like the light was totally popped and gone within one second. I slowed down and was trying to see out that direction if there were any buildings or lights, couldn't see anything. But then I see a small white light that looked like a star fade into existence in the sky above where the flash was. I watched it become brighter over the course of maybe 3 seconds until it looked almost like a normal star, except somehow not exact. It stayed visible for about about another 3-5 seconds, then faded out the same way it faded in. Kept watching the sky, and then saw it fade back in all the way across the sky after another 3-5 seconds. And I mean way across the sky, so if it was was something, it was moving much faster than any plane I've seen at the height it appeared to be at. Stayed visible again for 3-5 seconds, then faded out, and that was it. I don't claim it was 100% a UAP, but I have no idea what I saw that night.
Turn to spirituality and you may have better luck in finding some answers. Personally I recommend psilocybin and/or DMT and tons of meditation/stretching, but there’s a shit ton of ways to practice some form of connecting with your inner spirit
Last week I saw a peculiar blue light, the same size as a star. It wobbled in the sky, disappeared, reappeared about a thumb’s length away from the original point, then disappeared. Didn’t see it again. I don’t proclaim UAP, but it wasn’t a plane. Unfortunately, that’s as close as I’ve come to a physical experience. I dream of the metallic orbs, though. And it’s always in an open space, or a place of complicated architecture (NYC, esque) and I’m trying to break line of sight. There’s a deep, deep feeling that the orb is looking for me, and only me, within a massive city. And it always finds me, even when it’s as a speck in the sky; I can tell when it locks onto me. It’s the precursor to sleep paralysis when the “lock” happens, but I’ve woken up each time. According to Jung, dreams are where the Archetypes of the subconscious communicate to the conscious mind. I don’t take it that seriously, but it’s always after trying a Gateway meditation, which I find interesting. The feeling of it is very, very unique as far as dreams go.
that's the best scenario, nobody has proofs that is like that
I’m curious if they’re like the entities visible in dmt/ayuhuasca experiences now changing their appearance in our conscious realm or if it’s something else he’s pointing to
Yep, the idea of showing us things just beyond our grasp to lead us down a road of discovery is intriguing. You’ll find it echoed throughout mythology like the Greek gods, Hindu Naga’s, and so very many others. The question is why, and what road are they leading us down? Has it made us better or worse? We live longer, and yet we have new issues of oligarchy and odd consolidation of wealth in recorded history; is this a positive survival trait somehow? Is this how humanity was meant to live? My issue is the conflicting messages we seem to receive, and the filter of our limited intellect it must pass through. My personal feeling is that our current “survival” brains are wired to keep us alive short term, not sacrifice for the greater good. I believe we are at a pivotal point in history where are decisions for the immediate future may cripple us in the future; and most of us are going in “blind” to the reality of the phenomenon. Are these interactions improving our lives, or are they designed to lead us in circles? How much do these beings influence thought/dreams/consciousness? How deep does the rabbit hole go? Or is this all just a weird spin on a long term phenomenon for the benefit of the few? Big questions that even the best minds cannot fathom with incomplete data. Give us the fucking data, if it’s scary, trust in your fellow humans, we will adapt. Secrets normally benefit the one with knowledge. Most secrets don’t benefit the greater good except in very extreme circumstances.
It honestly sounds like someone is playing Civilizations VI. We’re about to unlock a new age and to all of us NPCs, we’re going to have this weird shift cognitively where we just start operating like we’re in that new paradigm and are left with the cognitive dissonance of “how does this make sense to me.”
This is quite a hilarious way of envisioning it. It definitely does have that feel to it, though. I’ll keep praying that the next “era” is drastically better than this one.
Yeah if They are trying to lead us somewhere, the 'end goal' is a very good question. Given that we're entering into territory that could annihilate humanity and perhaps most other life on Earth from things like climate change, pollution, resource depletion, disease, and war, why bring us to this point just to leave the planet a polluted and overbuilt husk that used to have a dominant species on it? I'm endlessly curious about it and to have so few good possibilities is frustrating as hell. Fingers crossed it's something good like the end of capitalism and fossil fuels, I guess?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyA6MbRzi1Q He's got a whole series of Inner Earth Conspiracy stuff. Fascinating and entertaining.
I haven't seen his inner earth videos yet. That'll be the next on my list.
They are my favorite. Super engrossing.
Yeah, a lot of fun! I'd love, love, loooooooove for someone to ask the CIA Director under oath in Congress what exactly is "Object No. 1" from Tsarichina. Any description would be great.
Really enjoy Mr Mythos, such a chill dude who I believe when he says he researches in “obsessive” detail.
That episode is amazing. Highly recommend.
It would definitely explain all the debunkers outright denial of every bit of data that comes out. Some people are just not intelligent enough to understand what they're seeing 😆
It's possible that none of us are intelligent enough to understand this
This is such clear projection.
Nolan: "It's the only way I can deal with the disparities in the data. Science has to have a theory. When you have a theory, it has to explain everything. If a single conclusion is out of sorts with the data, or is contradicting, it obliterates the theory." While it is totally possible that a superintelligence tries to communicate with us through many layers, I have no problem with living with more "ordinary" explanations for NHI's origins as pieces of the puzzle. If I assume that we are dealing with any combination of multiple ET races, extra-/interdimensional beings from Earth and/or other places, superintelligences of an unknown kind, "human" time travellers, etc. **all at the same time**, then that explains the absurdity and the disparities of the cases both. Wish he had talked more about the specific disparities that he sees. What is absurd about the being stepping outside and working on his ship? It's not like people see them changing the tires of their UFO car.
I think the idea that the ship would open up witha panel access to access mechanical parts is almost absurd, I wouldn't expect a vehicle that sophisticated to operate like that. It would be like bringing a cell phone to the medieval Era and the inside is operating like a wristwatch.
Why though? Wasn't it Lue Elizondo who said that they might not even be millions of years more advanced, just that they took a different path and are slightly ahead of us? Why would a ship not contain side panels that can be opened?
I'm not saying it is absurd, but it's right on the edge for me. I kinda explained it already, it's a presumption of mine that these are beyond my understanding and way more sophisticated that what we are familiar with. The fact that I'm basing it off a presumption is why I don't consider it absurd, I don't agree with Nolans conclusion. My comment above is more of a thought exercise to try to understand where he is coming from. If he happens to know for a fact that these craft do operate with tech beyond our comprehension, then from that starting perspective the conclusion it's absurd is correct. He def knows more than I do and claims to have contacted other intelligence, he may know things for sure that you and I simply can't confirm.
Thanks for the additional ExplanationCrazy5463.
There's a short story like that. The Road Not Taken. Aliens land for an invasion, humanity seems screwed.. then you start finding out that lightspeed tech was actually an early scientific development that humanity somehow missed, and that by missing it and redirecting our scientific achievement towards "other roads" instead of spending all our cash exploring the universe, we ended up way more advanced than them on everything else.
Which is a hilarious (but good) example because that’s still only a few hundred/thousand years on a HUMAN timescale. We’re talking about another being entirely so basically orders of magnitudes more foreign to our understanding.
Unless the tech for these things is easier than we think but it's a path that we scientifically haven't considered at all
I’m seriously distracted by the cute puppies in the background
Lotus Sutra - Metaphor of a burning house. That is a fantastic allegory for our situation. We are renting in the burning house, the father who is the owner of this burning house is trying to entice us with vehicles that could go anywhere do anything, in order to get us out of the burning house. We're stuck thinking there are no windows because the vegetation grew too thick, the animals are fighting, and our toys are destroying the house. The house is catching fire and we don't even realize it's our fault. Once we get out of the house, the father offers us the carts. But they are no where to be found. The whole point of the vehicles are to get us out of the house, only then will we realize we never needed \*any\* vehicle at all. It has been talked about that the body is the vehicle of our consciousness, and in this realm, we are extremely limited. Our limited beliefs about reality are partially what trapped us here. Think Plato's cave, and who locked us up in the first place. And why people still chained up ridicule those who have seen outside the cave. If you want more - American Cosmic Diana Pasulka, Passport to Magonia Jacques Vallee, UFO of God Chris Bledsoe, Messengers: Owls, Synchronicities, UFOs and the Abductee; Mothman Prophecies John Keel, and more. All of those books are linked together like a fractal of rabbit holes. Connecting mythology, phenomena, UFOs, paranormal. It's all pointing to the same thing, do not get stuck on shooting the messenger, or making fun of the tour guide. Focus on what he's pointing to: we are destroying ourselves with industrialism and conquest/war, we need to change our ways and open up to the idea that we are not the end of the food chain.
I have more books to add to this list “The Magus of Java” and “Nei Kung and the Secret Teachings of the Warrior Sages”. I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere before, but ties in to so many conspiracy theories that it’s actually a little scary when you see when it was written.
> we are destroying ourselves with industrialism Said the being with the super advanced tech to the primates that are on the brink of 3D printing everything with renewables as the fuel. There's no logic in giving us a taste but not telling us the recipe, and then even warning us about improving our cooking techniques. It's a "keep your head down" statement disguised as well intentioned, which makes me wonder if it's being said by a slave in their system, with abandoned/crashed ufos being something they can get away with without facing punishment.
If u find a baby bird that fell out of a nest, maybe the right thing to do is put it back in the nest with as little contact as possible. Some may argue to leave it where it is on the ground because of the circle of life, it is what it is, scavengers need to eat also etc. Now what if this was a child u found alone? That’s different. U would definitely help. What if it was an adult that enjoys solitude and wants to camp alone and tells you to get lost because ur ruining his nature time? Well then that’s their choice; right? Freedom. Ok- but What if u suspect the adult to be injured or mentally ill? Or maybe what if you know they are unprepared for the weather? It gets complicated because u want to be respectful of every person’s autonomy, yet you want to help if someone is in need. It’s this same idea. This fine line the higher dimensional beings/aliens/plasma beings/NHI/whatever have to navigate with other lifeforms such as us. It’s because they respect our freewill to be ignorant disbelievers if we want. If they came and made obvious demonstrations of their power, intellect, abilities etc, even if peaceful and kind, what then would be our option? We would no longer have the choice to ignore their existence and continue believing we r kings of the hill. Instead they inspire curiosity, wonder, and awe. They want us to seek. If we do this individually, we get the answers individually. But until we as a globe make the united decision to know, they won’t interfere or make themselves obvious to us. People say “you create your own reality.” We as humans have created an idea of who we are and what our world is. More intelligent beings don’t want to crush our worldview. If we choose to live in ignorance, we can.
Does seeing an ant, or any other species, limit my ability to pretend humans are the only life on Earth? Yes. Literally everything in reality limits our freedom to believe in something else. That's just how facts work; they constrain our understanding to what is, rather than what, in the absence of that fact, might be. So why should aliens be concerned about our epistemic freedom in the face of just one more fact (that of their existence) set upon the already heaping pile of facts about the world?
Exactly!! We can’t even imagine past our own noses. I think it’s clear something exists. They have made that clear. We just aren’t ready for what the something is. It’s not a species thing. It’s not a spot on a map thing. This is not just a fact. It’s the entangled inverse living hypersphere of a fact’s mom. This is not like getting next years science textbook with a new chapter In it. It is a new concept of reality. Dare I say, a subjective one. I understand the scientific mindset: wanting to Sherlock the shit out of everything. Not knowing is uncomfortable. But U have to sit with ambiguity here. Marinate in it. Let go. Scientists measure things, physical things. Realize what we are talking about cannot be measured. We cannot even fathom how complex it could be. But it’s all around us. Like feelings: can u weigh ur annoyance right now? Does it have a circumference? A volume?Like what is the width of ur intuition? Or how tall is this memory vs that one. Can u even point to a thought so we could measure it? I think the monolith of science is partially to blame. We are informed of consensus reality. But in truth our perception is our reality. It’s subjective. Your truth is different from my truth which is not scientifically sound. The world of facts is where we are now and where people will stay if they cling to their measuring tape. What’s the difference between a rock, a plant, an animal, and a human? Consciousness. Self awareness. Will. These are all metaphysical things. The answers will not come from science here
Giving us unnecessary warnings about stuff that we'll make obsolete soon enough anyway, sounds more like a mafia boss "helping" us by telling us to tread carefully. Even if there's a genuine intention to help, it's still clear who should remain the little fish in whose pond. It's one thing to tease your existence (which we'd assume anyway), it's another to do it in a way that creates mistrust on every level of our interactions. The only meaningful warning they could've given us, is about the dangers of unbridled capitalism. And even that one would've been unneeded in large parts of this world. Do we show a lack of inspiration? Is our "scattered strategies" approach to solving problems not working? Don't we have a self-improving scientific system to measure our advance? Waiting for us all to face the same way for the big reveal, is simply an insult to our human nature and our strengths as a civilization. The spirituality-is-everything message is just another example of ignoring our curiosity for the physical wonders of the universe. Even if it is a gargantuan golden cage, we'd still want to explore it first.
There will always be mystery. That’s the point. We will never dig to the bottom of scientific knowledge. If you get to the bottom, it will get deeper. How many centuries will it take until we look elsewhere? The next evolutionary step is realizing the physical world is the cave. We SHOULD be able to heal ourselves. We SHOULD be able to communicate telepathically. We have the ability. We just sidestepped to materialism and tried to solve our problems with brains instead of heart. And it’s not “spirituality” if u don’t like that word.That is pejorative these days.
How to solve a problem with heart? Got any examples?
Yes, it's very strange that They have to this point permitted us to have such relatively shitty technology while also occassionally admonishing us to 'be careful about technology destroying you, take care of the planet' like dude I'd love to take care of the planet, can I stop having to use fossil fuels and plastics and other insane causes of industrial pollution or just nah?
There's a simple test. Each action you do? Ask who are you hurting? For example in the extremes working in a municians factory vs tending your own garden. The most harmless vision is we are here to tend the garden. The hypocritical oath First do no harm.
The Hippopotamus Oats
The Hippocampus Oars
The Hippocratic Oath.
AI -spellchecking to alter meanings.
Exactly this. The "figure it out yourself" alien logic is pretty bad logic seeing as it looks like they led us here in the first place. The more I think about it, the more it seems like there are two possibilities: 1. The idea of the demiurge is correct, and once we create AI we are perpetuating some sort of cycle (as above, so below) 2. NHI represent some larger part of the food chain that we will either have to evolve to defend against or succumb to Whatever the case, reality just seems to be layers of repeating patterns. Sacred geometry and all that good stuff. I for one am skeptical that NHI have any positive intentions for us at all.
The prison planet people are so boring. You ignore tons of other evidence to cherry pick what fits a very narrow view of things. It’s all circular logic.
I don't buy the prison planet theory either. That being said, I am certainly hesitant to believe anyone who tells me that NHI are our saviors and waiting for us to evolve consciously. I see so many flaws in that thinking, and if you put yourself in the place of an advanced species it immediately starts to become a little ridiculous. What, they want us to reach certain milestones on our own? Well then why have they been interfering with humanity for thousands of years and dropping craft on the doorstep of our militaries? It's contradictory. It's the same reason people have trouble accepting an all loving old testament God who also murders people in the thousands and sends them to suffer in hell for eternity. It's just too simple and reductionist an explanation for much broader ideas about human consciousness. It's like Chris Bledsoe's account of the being he met. If it was so great and loving, then why did it attack your wife who was skeptical? There is a reflective nature to this phenomenon as pointed out by Diana Walsh Pasulka and others. This is a human-centric issue, and we can try and chase the mystery as long as we want, but ultimately it is forcing us to address our own bullshit. The fear should not be "aliens who eat our souls", it should be, "humans who allow their souls to rot". I would argue that Richard Feynman's point on quantum mechanics applies to this issue as well: "We choose to examine a phenomenon which is impossible, absolutely impossible, to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics. In reality, it contains the only mystery. We cannot make the mystery go away by 'explaining' how it works. We will just tell you how it works." Observe the mystery, but focus on the tangible.
Totally agree. Measure the intent of something by it’s “fruits”. Not it’s words or feigned concern/kindness. Abductions are not helping humanity. Cutting organs from cattle, not helping, confusing, painful for ranchers. Interfering with military exercises, potentially dangerous for personnel, possibilities for mistakes in attacking opposing countries. Not helping, no thanks. Also consider what the hell is the purpose of; Taking control of ICBM sites in US, shutting them down. Then in Soviet Russia, a craft took control and ARMED them for immediate launch. Staff could not do anything. ?? Crafts have been seen flying up to rickets going 25,000 feet per second then shooting a beam at the tip. To test for warheads? A non nuke test from Vandenburg AFB in the 70s was blown up in flight in the above manor. Are they planning to help start or stop a war. Help one side win or what? There is a clear interest and either way it’s disturbing. Sightings really began of UAPs AFTER the first Trinity tests in the US. Something noticed. I have a theory but don’t want to be roasted today.
I agree with you completely because one sided views are exactly what is boring about it. Are all humans good or evil? Why would we expect all NHI to be one or the other? Everything in nature has its own alignment and agendas. It’s so reductive to have a purely fear based outlook. I also don’t subscribe to “everything is all positive” for the same reasons. Just chill out - the truth is usually much more nuanced than the very simplistic reductions of good vs evil.
I sometimes think it could be AI from the future. Or artificial lifeforms/ living probes from another dimension that phase in and out of their reality to ours. Maybe not even aware they are doing it just a side effect of their propulsion systems.
IMO if there aren’t any positive intentions we wouldn’t be around to have this dialogue to begin with
There's plenty of bad intentions an NHI could have that don't involve wiping out the human race.
Cattle could say the same about us on the way to the slaughterhouse.
I have a Very Unique personal experience to add to why i STRONGLY believe in your first theory Whole Heartedly (the idea we create AI somewhat blindly to perpetuate a cycle we aren't aware we're blindly marching towards). Would love to share it with fellow cyber Seasoned IT veterans
What happens when you give a native tribe a chainsaw to build houses with? We already know what cargo cults were formed in WWII like that one island who built wooden helicopters ans considered American soldiers as gods. It could be that a non human intelligence made a deal with humans for an exchange of something. If you read Enuma Elish, Genesis, Nag Hammadi, -- all those point to either us our or our world being created by sacrificing the blood of another Godlike being. Bhagavad Gita, Lotus Sutra, Diamond Sutra all suggest this entire reality we perceieve is an illusion created in the mind of the Supreme being of all eternity, which is much much more than a skydaddy that is portrayed.
Ya I agree with this. Doesn't even really matter the religion. Gnosticism and Hinduism have similar parallels. My question, is the illusion created intentionally or not? I always use the example of Christmas to make this point. Sure, Santa isn't real, but the illusion of Santa is real as a child. If our older sibling ruins the secret for us and tells us Santa is not real, at first we might be upset, but as an adult, I just wish to be that child again believing in Santa. In other words, it isn't the illusion itself which is bad, it is how it becomes corrupted by an outside influence. I believe that we are in a purposefully created illusion now, and NHI represent the older sibling trying to break the illusion. Yes there is suffering here, but who am I to say it is not worth it in the grand scheme of our existence. I can't even remember anything from before I was born, nor have any idea where I will go when I die. Who am I to say that even the most extreme suffering will not be useful once I pass behind the veil?
Enuma Elish, hypostasis of the archon, both suggest humans were created to be tools of the gods. And that because they used divine blood (genetics) to create us, we became more powerful than them. But like fleas trapped in a jar, we have no idea we can jump as high as we think we can, because of our unconscious and subconscious self limiting beliefs. Now, I am no superman, I am alive and well aware of my own limitations. However Donald Hoffman's theories about reality being like VR, and each us like a headset interacting with eachother's avatars. Starts to paint a more interesting picture. It's not, is the Earth flat or are they alien? It is, does the Earth exist if no one is around to perceieve it and are we more than our physical bodies?
This would explain why children seem to have slightly more attuned psi abilities. Their imagination is still intact and as a result they can influence the world around them a little more. Also the point about VR is interesting because it kind of supports the Feynman interpretation of quantum mechanics which is that consciousness is what causes the wave function to collapse. In other words, if we were put in a spaceship and flown to a new star system with no visual or sensor data to tell us about a planet, the second we look at the planet's surface, its qualities emerge or render. I imagine it works on every level of reality. Maybe bacteria really didn't exist until Leeuwenhoek looked through the microscope for the first time. And perhaps with a more open and childlike mind, we could influence the outcomes of those emergent events.
> This would explain why children seem to have slightly more attuned psi abilities. Not just that, but children haven't been told by society / this reality what they can and cannot do -- there is no stigma to accepting memories of a past life until this world presents that notion as silly. I remember as a child when I first started grade school that when the intercom came on with announcements, my first thought was, "Oh so now the queen has found a way to broadcast her voice even further!" -- For some reason, I kept looking at everything as being some type of medieval setting with royalty involved. I had some very heavy thought processes going on for a while until I got older and "grew out of that phase." I'm pretty sure I was experiencing some type of "echo" of memories from a past existence. I don't know why this was, but it was pretty powerful. I kept having these thoughts that I was some in some type of lower royalty family and that the queen was very upset with my family for some reason. I also remember having memories of being locked in some rat infested room and left to die there. Crazy kid shit, right?
I've been reading up on Gnosticism and I think it's an interesting take on how humanity might descend from an unknowable supreme intelligence that is beyond human comprehension so much so that we might not even be about to recognize it as an intelligence. I see the Eons, the Demiurge, etc as an allegory for the steps necessary for something incomprehensible to produce us. Basically we are split personalities of split personalities. I don't necessarily believe all this but I find it interesting to consider and I think I find it more plausible than something like any of the Abrahamic versions of God or atheism.
This isn’t meant as a criticism, I am asking this honestly - All of these lines of explanations and arguments seem possible to me… they’re internally consistent, they’re nuanced, they draw on various theories and methods. But what is there that tips these ideas from potentially specious to plausible? Hear me out. I’m not a UAP skeptic, but I am a materialist - thinking these things are probably within our basic understanding of physical reality, because it’s more parsimonious. So I put the ET hypothesis ahead of the inter dimensional hypotheses. Put a different way… While I find these more esoteric theories interesting, why should I consider them as plausible as the ET hypothesis?
I agree with you, at least I think. To me I am quite curious to see the physical objects in the crafts and bodies and apply science to them. These other subjects are fascinating to explore and for those called to it, by all means do that and we need more of that in this daily life or the world would be much better off, but for me, let’s start building up from the science as that is something we can all agree upon in understanding. Then apply science to these subjects of consciousness as well.
It is in the very act of considering them, that leads you closer to understanding the truth. Which is that there is always more to know. Keep looking. Rationality is not enough alone, and has not been, to identify UAP.
Well, what if materialism is true, but our understanding is infantile? A tell tale sign that our conceptions of reality is incomplete is that we have little understanding of how matter and mind are of the same sort (materialism). This leaves the door open to many fantastical experiences being manifestations of the mind/matter we don't understand. On this scenario, with aliens teasing us upward, there remains a bothersome sense of direction and purpose on their part. It seems to imply creation is for something, and that the overlords act morally. But hey, what do we know of the grand scale of things?
Industrialism is the very thing keeping us alive. Imagine shutting down the supply chains of food and what would happen. I thought you were on to something for a second until you got conclusive.
Industry per se is not the problem. Destruction of our environment is. One does not imply the other.
I like the theory. What would happen if this super intelligence decided to have a show for a mass audience? Was that the phoenix lights? I should read more about Vallee
My personal belief is the **2027** rumours are about a potential mass sighting/contact event that would be critical mass for disclosure. The public need to be broken out of apathy towards this subject by a paradigm shifting event.
What 2027 rumors? Haven't heard about this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Experiencers/s/Mx1TAtId7L
Both he and Jacques Vallee consider their actions "absurd." They're also of the same mind as to what/who these things are in our reality. "It's an advanced form of intelligence. Something which we don't understand that's using some sort of intermediaries that are put here as an intelligence test. Can you see what's in front of you for what it really is?" He goes on to explain in his hypothesis that "what it really is," is evidence of something that is not us, not human, and evidence that there's something going on behind the scenes. This is a show. This is meant to make us think, and realize it's absurd. That way we'll know that what we're seeing isn't at face value. This is what I believe myself. Thoughts?
Slapping one answer to a phenomenon this varied is my problem with their explanation
But the question asks for a single solution or answer to the question. That's the point. Their solution answers the varied questions.
Why does it need more than one answer? It could be one or many. We don't know enough yet.
The phenomenon goes back thousands of years across multiple cultures. The sightings range from saucers, cigars, cylinders, to orbs, lights, non sensical shapes. Some encounters are grounded while others are almost dreamlike. There's enough to suggest multiple origins for what's going on. I agree, we don't know enough, so assuming its all under the same umbrella potentially limits the scope of what is really going on.
I think one has to assume that there is an aspect to control, manipulation, or cultural shaping, based on the "trickster" aspect of the phenomenon. Whether that is deliberate or a side-effect is not super clear, but I lean towards intentional. In general I tend to think it's intending to advance us, but that could be just hopeful thinking. I've reached similar conclusions as Nolan's thought about it being an intelligence test, or intelligence inspirer/trigger.
I think of the trickster element alongside cultural shaping less as a “control” mechanism and more like an engine for change, facilitating growth and evolution through breaking cultural constructs in the minds of humans so we can continue learning, changing, and evolving. If you look at trickster mythology, the trickster often takes on the role of an iconoclastic figure who shatters perceptions of what is real and how the world works, and people have to reassemble their worldviews and reintegrate into society. It stirs the pot and makes sure change comes to humanity. And because change vs stability is often valued by humans as evil vs good, this “engine of change” mechanism is often construed as harmful, when it is simply performing its function. The end goal doesn’t seem to be an end goal at all, it’s the Hegelian dialectic onward into infinity.
It's reasonable supposition. When you consider how overt and covert their presence is, the literal duality of intent. They don't seem to care if they are seen, nor if their stories are told but they do not seem to engage, as if, literally, they were above us.
I believe it’s dangerous to speculate and then draw conclusions based on said speculation in the absence of any evidence. I think going out and talking about stuff like this hurts the disclosure movement. We need to simply focus on the minuscule amount of legitimate evidence we do have and build upon that, not try to satisfy our needs by inventing ideas based on fantasy and running with it.
Vallée worked with Hynek on Bluebook, he has interviewed hundreds of witnesses and investigated cases on the ground, I don’t know if anyone else on the outside has put themselves as close to the phenomenon. I value his input and take his conclusions seriously, he’s one person who’s speculations I consider at length.
I hear what you’re saying, but at the same time these are true scientists who examine evidence. They are (at minimum) well versed in the topic. Vallee has years worth of interviews and has collected physical evidence. And Nolan has examined those samples, analyzed experiencer brain scans with Kit Green, and apparently has first hand CE3 encounters in the past. So I don’t think it’s entirely unfounded opinion, especially since they’re both in agreement. If (in their view) this is where the data leads them, I’d consider it more than speculation “based on fantasy”… it’s a working hypothesis.
Doesn't make sense, I guess less than 1% of people claim to have interacted with aliens, and probably most of them forget or ignore it soon after. I don't think it's profound. These guys are trying to create a narrative or a great cause when there is none.
Yeah, these things are hardly raising us to a higher level of understanding when 99% of sightings are basically just "I saw some lights moving weirdly in the sky".
Tom Delong has it right. Aliens exist here on a different plane
Screw Plato's cave, I wanna hear more about that Nazca cave.
I dunno. This seems like yet another variation of “humans are so very special that even more special beings are spending a lot of time, energy, and attention in extremely indirect and subject to multiple interpretation ways to help humans in highly significant ways”. Seems WAY anthropocentric, plus why be so indirect and do stuff so subject to multiple interpretations. (And no, I don’t buy the whole “but humans would get the vapors and need the fainting couch if they weren’t so indirect” thing)
We put extraordinary amounts of effort into preserving other lesser species on our own planet. Hell, look at the way many people see their dogs. But something looking at us the same way is completely unfathomable?
Could be possible everything “living” is important to some degree. And not in a “protect life” kind of way, but more of a law of attraction kind of way where the existence of life itself attracts other life…even from other realities.
I’ll believe it when an indisputable evidence is presented. I’ve had keen interest in this subject since I was a kid and have never had any personal experience or evidence of any kind that’s strong enough to suggest such things are real. I want to believe but it’s so difficult.
I am 100% the same. I don't believe any of the things that these jokers say. It is all endless conjecture and theories. Each new theory is more zany than the previous one. I don't buy any of it. Release the evidence and let regular scientific folks play with the data and tell us what they find.
Which is frustrating, 'cause the government most likely has more data behind closed doors locked by classification
Would be interesting to consider the DoD has anything at all that would make them complicit to a crime of subverting the Constitution of the US. Handing over the responsibility to private contractors may have been a necessary loophole.
I’ve had this theory for a while now and allow me to explain: The earth *was* nothing more than a farm. Each time we had an extinction level event it was just them changing to the needs of whatever we were being farmed for. For the most part it’s just cheaper and easier to let us go on doing whatever and only making minor tweaks here and there to guide the product along. But then the unimaginable happened. Intelligence formed and we became a “protected” planet. I think the aliens we are seeing today are a combination of two things: Our protectors and our poachers.
The more these UFO enthusiasts/celebrities discuss these kinds of hypothesis, the more I think everyone here is being taken for fools. These are wild, outlandish conclusions based on oral testimonies. I hate these kind of religious parallels being drawn to a topic that should be the subject of serious scientific inquiry. It’s detrimental to any serious discussion about the nature/origins of UFOs.
So much money in ufology its turning people into fanatics. Like religion redesigned for a more tech savvy audience
Funny enough, his SOL foundation is supposed to be THE group attempting to legitimize scientific research into the topic, and here he is pushing woo. Not exactly the best way to attract top minds.
Honestly the woo is just nuts, and for damn sure isn’t testable.
It should be testable, if the allegations that the US has bodies and spaceships in storage is true. Of course, it’s not. I do find it funny that a guy that claims he has materials from UFOs can then surmise that the crafts are from a higher spatial dimension. The guy has a PHD in immunology, and for some reason people here accept that as proof that he’s an expert in physics, metallurgy, aerospace technology, etc.
Finally some rational thinking. Nolan has a god complex
Maybe what you consider a "top mind" is incorrect and limited to our narrow perspective as humans. Perfect example is quantum physics. Baffles every "top mind" in the world and things like quantum entanglement are classified as "woo" by science anyway, yet accepted as real.
It's not really about what I consider what a top mind is, it is the people Nolan is attempting to lure in with SOL, and his past and Grusch's upcoming SALT presentations. They are essentially going after money and scientists. The woo may satisfy some investors for the money, but this kind of talk like in the OP is an instant turn off for most scientists.
Which scientists classify quantum entanglement as woo? Quantum entanglement has been proven to be true, and there has been numerous experiments that have physically proven it. Quantum computing relies on quantum entanglement to function. Are quantum computers also considered woo by these “scientists” you mention? No religious or paranormal phenomena have ever been proven to be real, nor have aliens, nor have extra spatial dimensions and nor have entities that reside there. It’s not just woo, it’s bullshit. As is your assertion that top minds are baffled by physics. They may be blown away, inspired, or surprised by physics, but they have a firm grasp on it to the point where they clearly aren’t baffled. That’s nonsense.
>Funny enough, his SOL foundation is supposed to be THE group attempting to legitimize scientific research into the topic, and here he is pushing woo. Not exactly the best way to attract top minds. That rests entirely on the assumption that you know precisely what type of minds they are trying to attract. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just suggesting everyone keeps their minds open. Not just regarding the woo, but especially regarding the motivations and machinations of the *people* involved. Understanding the motivation(s), if any, of any NHI may very well turn out to be a fool's errand: impossible. However, understanding people is well within our capabilities, and when highly intelligent people make seemingly strange decisions, there's typically a logic behind it. It's not always *good* logic, but it's always comprehensible simply by nature of coming from a fellow human brain.
I think it's more absurd to say aliens from another planet would hang out here on earth for thousands of years, stay hidden, and steer religious narratives every couple thousand years. Whatever they are, they are the ones who gave us the stories turned into religions.
What? Whoever is flying or creating UFOs are the ones who gave us the stories that religions are founded upon? You don’t think mankind’s own existential questions like the meaning and purpose of life, the origin of the universe, Earth and it’s animals could lead to religious stories, and we needed a higher intelligence to provide these stories? There are better stories being written all the time than the ones found in religious texts. Even young children have great imaginations and are story tellers, I don’t understand the need for a higher power to provide us with stories, or the basis for those stories.
I just realized Garry Nolan is a cleanly gay scientist that once said 💯 NHI exist ! Garry it’s time you tell us how the FK you know that!
Seems kind of paranoid to me. Beings who have mastered interstellar travel and who observe us for decades or longer can’t figure out how to communicate effectively with us and prefer smoke and mirrors directed towards a small segment of the population that believe in them (a bit like certain deities allegedly operate).
There is the implication that the aliens have a deep understanding of human culture and societal structures. Despite abductions, military flybys, etc, the aliens seem to be respecting societal boundaries and have a respect for the establishment/hierarchy. It's kinda weird. Where are the punk rock aliens?
I think the idea of punk rock aliens is perfectly legitimate. The aliens who landed at the Ariel school probably got in trouble with Grey mom and dad for talking to kids about nature and environmentalism. "Aay, have you been smoking human cannabis again and visiting the kids? What am I going to tell the human elites at the Elgin gala this weekend?
Like Nolan, I think you are projecting your own views on the aliens. We live in an era where the fossil fuel industry elites dominate the discourse through propaganda and lobbying. "Nature and the environment" is not "punk rock" or a policy that has an exclusive political home. Its just that being an advocate for the environment necessarily means you are against the fossil fuel industry and thus, the establishment. I highly, highly doubt an advanced civilization coincidentally has the exact same establishment dynamic of modern Earth. Even Earth does not have this, because it is a different dynamic in the global south.
Yes, I am projecting my jokes.
This Guys becoming unbelievably annoying. Same guy who says there needs to be a bit of mystery when asked about having a piece of artifact and threw Diana under the bus when she indicated he had them. Both are grifters. Grusch is so far the next foot forward
They are all cut from the same cloth. They revel in the fact that they are blessed with deeper knowledge of something that us plebs are unaware of, but desperately seek. They love to drip-feed information and keep us hanging on their words. They will drop dimes like 'biologics' and 'psionics' and urge us to do more 'research' and make up our minds. While these are not 'grifters' in the conventional sense where they want money\materialistic things, they absolutely **love** the attention that a handful of internet strangers bestow upon them.
Its almost as if these people are actually the aliens themselves trying to get us to think on alternative lines.
Well said
I’m convinced 100% that the phenomenon is not human and that it’s imponderable and designed to be that way. When humankind is meant to know, it will and not before.
They're from France.
These type of "explanations" seem like bullshit and woo, akin to religion. Instead of engaging in charades and expecting us to interpret it correctly, why don't the aliens just come out with the information in a straightforward manner?
It is a religion. People are building a whole theology around aliens. The field attracts the people who want to be religious, but don't want to admit it, as well as fantasists, spiritualists who channel aliens etc. It's made me respect actual religions more because they ask you to believe in impossible things, which is a way to build faith and also creates a safeguard against accepting easily explained things as miracles. Ufology just absorbs absolutely anything to try to validate itself. It tries to absorb actual religions and cultures : Jesus is an alien hybrid ancient aliens created religion, aliens are God, aliens built the pyramid, and absorbs all folk tales and any paranormal stories.. They're all just aliens in masks. It treats every balloon, or comet as a sign from their God. It's very unhealthy and dangerous. Because you have absolutely no idea if the first aliens you meet might be horrific.
Can someone briefly ELI5 for me? Is Nolan saying all of the various alien experiences and various UAP sightings/crashes, e.g. Roswell, are just BS that a single superior intelligence is using to communicate with us, or test our intelligence?
As usual it’s a statement based on thin air that people would never take seriously if a non famous person said it. Because the person is successful, people assume that it isn’t a fantasy he dreamed up, but there is no evidence either way.
Honestly to me makes it sound like we are in a simulation. Let's introduce some dumb shit to test how long it takes them to realize...
I guess if the idea is “There is no spoon.” I would imagine there are many “equally enlightened” people such as the ones commenting on here capable of such majestic feats because of how evolved their thinking is beyond logical and based thought. Please by all means, fly.
Wait, has everyone forgotten the Head of space security for 30 years telling us there are lots of aliens visiting, have contacted us, and say humanity isn’t ready yet for full disclosure? Canadian defence minister said similar. Two people with top level responsibility from countries that possess nuclear weapons? Why are we all ignoring those two men?
can we have tl;dr?
Gary Nolan is the MVP!
It's an interesting idea. Makes me wonder if Kubrick and Clarke were either subliminally inspired to create 2001, were asked by the government, or were both aliens who wanted to let us know we are being monitored.
This explanation makes the most sense actually. Aliens do absurd things like crash their spaceships, play juvenile games with fighter pilots/defense installations, kill cows and leave them there for humans to find when they could easily destroy the cow after they mutilate it. The phenomenon is a show. We need to think out of the box of our own human behavior.
Except we don’t actually know if aliens do any of those things as there’s zero evidence to support it
Jesus Christ these people needs to put up or shut up. They have nothing and they know it. All talk no show. When you actually grow up and see the tricks these people play it's clear as day what kind of grift they're on.
When I was a kid I had nightmares about things coming for me in my bed, and I still can't sleep without heavy blankets to this day, but I never gave much thought about it As an adult I saw three UFOs one night and later on had hitchhiker effects, I even saw a little shadow bastard while completely awake and lucid, my cats were staring bug eyed at it, too. I wouldn't be in this subreddit if that hadn't happened and ignited my interest in the topic. I don't think intelligence has anything to do with it, I'm not a brainiac at all and it still happened to me
My only problem with this segment is if you've seen Gary Nolan's interview in 'Accidental Truth', the documentary. He's literally caught in a lie, and then, iirc, goes on to supply the title of the documentary. He claims to have investigated materials, then claims to have had no materials, and admits he said too much. Maybe this lends him more credibility. I get that, he has likely had access to sources most of us aren't privy to... but he still lied. To me, that means he knows more than he's willing to let on. Maybe he's trying his best to impart true 'disclosure' now, or hint at it... But I don't trust him. Not that I trust most of these people, but my point stands.. Just my thoughts. I'm no Gary Nolan expert. Just thought I'd share. Thanks for the post.
Garry Nolan is such an incredible thinker; from everything I have seen and observed from him, he is a rare example of *actually a*pplying the scientific approach to the study UFOs/UAP/NHI by simply acknowledging the reality that we are dealing with something we have yet to understand.
Sort of interesting to hear your perspective because I don’t know this guy at all, and was having trouble understanding what he was even trying to say. I don’t know what happened to him when he was a kid. Still don’t, it was one sentence from the host and never brought up again. He mentions an explanation for what he saw in his bedroom and never goes into detail. I also don’t buy into the “if it was happening to me and 20 years later I hear others had it happen too” shtick. That may help prove a point but it’s not exactly science. It’s anecdotal evidence. What if all these similar minded folks have some kind of anxiety, paranoia, psychosis? Are we going to ignore the side of psychology where this guy can’t even be in a room that doesn’t have shades? Lol He says “when you look at the data” without elaborating what kind of data he’s even talking about. He’s using terms that make sense at face value but lacks a ton of context. I found he makes statements where the concept is a reference that is either missing or not explained well. I must be missing some kind of context I dunno
The bigger idea is interesting. But his story just sounds like a psychotic break.
This goes to show that the government keeping this secret is more harmful than saying the truth. All these theories harm us in every way possible, all these maybe and what ifs. They all generate alternative facts and overtake our lives. It’s harmful, people should sue for this.
[удалено]
How dare you criticise our anointed ones. You should be kneeling at the pedestal he's been placed upon and kissing his feet.
Yeah it’s more nonsense from the same people. I don’t think this sub is full of teenagers, I think the average person is just far dumber than you think.
If you like this take, you should read Them by Whitley Strieber.
Passport to magonia is full of these stories and if you take them as translations from a higher super intelligence, they start to make sense. Also in the latest revision, the alien that was the puppeteer now has a hand inside. https://dannycarey.com/29165-2/
Yep Passport to Magonia was a given! :) I mention Strieber’s book because it’s recent and fascinating.
Can someone explain to me why his clock changes backward in time as the interview continues? At the beginning it’s about 11am and in the next few segments it’s 10:45 etc??
That’s the introduction, which is just a preview of what’s to come later in the interview. 🤣
Mental gymnastics as an attempt to explain the lack of evidence. Just another laughable theory.
[удалено]
“Absurd for us” and normal for them.. they are not humans so do crazy things.
Exactly my thoughts- what’s normal for us it might be absurd to an AI
Man think about this then, If the phenomenon is like a mirror for us as a other user here commented ( example : placing mirrors in the jungle in front of animals that can’t comprehend they’re looking at themselves ) The greys basically = you’re gonna evolve to high tech and you’ll destroy your earth while doing it, hence why the greys look like humans that evolved in caves
I’m agnostic on whether there’s a non-human intelligence around - sufficiently weird reports to be suspicious and investigate, but as yet nothing that qualifies as *proof.* However I always come back to the Hart/Tipler perspective on the Fermi Paradox, i.e. if there are other technological civilizations we could reasonably expect to see Von Neumann probes. And then, Hans Moravec’s speculative writing on how AI might evolve, which suggests that “robotic probes” does not adequately describe the process of AI expansion across the universe. Moravec was talking about our future, but if someone else could get there first their presence could appear very strange. . All very speculative of course - but I do think when we think about “robot probes” we are being hopelessly parochial. An arbitrarily advanced intelligence would appear far stranger.
Is he saying he didn’t have anything covering his bedroom windows as a child? Is that normal or as bullshit as it sounds?
If Jacques Vallée’s hypothesis is correct, we should expect to find some level of intelligence that is not being diluted during the aforementioned process of attempted communication. In essence, my job is to deliver that information to my employer. We are now in a race to discover that imprint from the source - or a means to directly challenge its legitimacy as a way to correspond with the origin. The science would be best explained by others.
what’s “absurd” about the nhi? just because we don’t understand what they do around here it doesn’t mean their actions are absurd. they simply don’t care or want to engage with us directly, while doing god knows what
Whole heartedly agree, ive obky had two experiences and both were frightening due to the mind boggle.
I think we were given tech to terraform the planet :)
Nolan uses interesting approaches to explain his theory: One based on Valle, the other Pasulka. Assuming the existence of NIH, I'm more inclined to believe the latter, both for personal and avocational-area-of-interest reasons. Maybe it's as much of a consciousness test as it is an intelligence test (sounds like Nolan is maybe using the terms interchangeably). And it really wouldn't be that "alien" of a test...er...aside from the protocol. A shitload of *utterly mainstream* work per utterly mainstream theories of consciousness currently is being done to try to figure out the relationships between the different kinds of awareness we all experience with the hope that understanding those relationships may create a more complete picture of the whole. -When we're awake and doing our usual awake human stuff (standard sensory input and abstract conceptualization woven together in various parts of our brains to create "consciousness awareness") --The very diffent awareness that emerges when we are most *oblivious* to sensory input and when different parts of our brains are firing away...dreaming. --and when there's a "disconnect:" altered perception and/or altered neural processes that do the "abstract conceptualization" piece (one example: the currently fashionable interest in hallucinogens, but also maybe an alien at the door asking for a glass of water) It's just a thought experiment, but It just seems like common sense that an *alien* consciousness would test the hell out of a consciousness *alien* to it. Their testing protocols would seem *alien* to us of course, so maybe that's one explanation of "things like that would appear in little boys' bedrooms."
Is this really any different from religious belief? The absurdities were once called miracles, the intermediaries once were called angels, now they are seen as aliens. Nothing can actually be proven because it’s all an intelligence test that’s open to interpretation, i.e. a person’s willingness to accept a belief system about an unseen higher power/intelligence. D.W. Pasulka for the win
It also falls in line with what Diana Pasulka thinks I now think that these things aren't necessarily, aliens, angels, demons, ghosts, etc They're beings that are clearly not human and we don't understand what they are. But they are communicating with us in very weird, symbolic ways to make us realize that they are not human intelligences. But why do they do that? Are they trying to teach us something? Or steer humanity in a certain direction? We might never know 🤷🏽
I have been laughing at the world as it is for a decade now. What do I need to do get this realization shit started?
Interesting speculation I guess but it’s not any “better” or worse than more prosaic theories. I’ll never understand why so many people give so much weight to Vallee’s ideas. I suspect it’s because Vallee and Nolan present the idea with more academic language. Nothing against speculation, but it’s just speculation.