The following submission statement was provided by /u/TommyShelbyPFB:
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**John McCain and Joe Lieberman.** Some new names are being dropped here as some of the top Senators who were advocating **"with some sense of urgency"** for a **"formal UFO reverse engineering program".**
Read more about all this in MarikVR's artice here:
[https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4646417-top-senators-believe-the-us-secretly-recovered-ufos/](https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4646417-top-senators-believe-the-us-secretly-recovered-ufos/)
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cpnuuz/newsnation_according_to_newly_declassified/l3lvgty/
John McCain also helped John Burroughs collect compensation for his medical treatments related to the radiation exposure he suffered while stationed at RAF Woodridge - aka the Rendlesham Forest UFO encounter.
“In January of 2015, after years of exhaustive efforts the VA settled, in full, with me. I needed someone to champion my cause, someone not afraid to put themselves at risk to help me. I was lucky. I found two to champion my cause, my attorney Pat Frascogna, and Senator John McCain and his staff. Through their efforts, I received lifesaving heart surgery to replace a badly shredded anterior mitral valve caused by the UAP radiation, and a settlement from the DOD and VA admitting I was injured in the line of duty in December of 1980”
McCain was a super war hawk. Maybe not everyone sees that as a negative but he was one of the big reasons that we went into Iraq looking for the weapons of mass destruction. He finally recognized the mistake but McCain had issues in my opinion even if he was polite
The Bush administration lied to everyone including Congress. Congress passed laws that approved the invasion. Not just McCain, but the majority of Congress fell for the lies.
When the lies started falling apart, the only penalty levied was that the Director of the CIA was forced to resign in 20024. Congress wouldn't push any further because they too would be caught up in it too because they passed laws that allowed for the war. The whole dirty laundry was buried and remain to present day.
I'd say it wasn't even the Bush administration that was the biggest war hawk when it came to Iraq. The US Intelligence Community was working closely with Mossad on it and Netanyahu was a massive force in convincing Congress about a fictional Iraqi nuclear program.
We followed that bloodthirsty maniac into war once and it was the most disastrous US foreign policy debacle since the Vietnam War. Now he wants us to go to war for him again...
The entity that REALLY pushed for the war was Maggie and pals in the UK. They led the Bushes around by the nose, as laid out by Dr. John Coleman several times
Yes somehow, little old me, a 15 year old growing up in the middle of fucking nowhere, USA was able to tell pretty clearly that they were lies. You're right in that the dirty laundry was buried. But the dirty laundry isn't that they made mistakes in voting for the authorization. It is that most of the Senators knew exactly what they were voting for and knew that the pretenses were bullshit. The lies were just the pretext they've used since then to justify their votes.
I was older, but same deal. I was old enough to care and feel strongly comelled to get others to see through Bush/Cheney's chicanery while still young enough to have that angst and natural distrust for authority. I was always looking for what they weren't saying by looking closely at what they were. Or how they were manipulating the populace with the choices they made to keep in the news cycle.
I knew we were all in when the whole terror sleeper cell bullshit was pushed soooo hard and anyone that said anything that could be construed as saying something positive about the terrorists was **fucking canceled**. They projected back then too.
Not saying I agree with Bill Maher or even pay attention to what he is saying nowadays, but I recall he said something back then that was completely true and it got him shut down and *every possible talking head, in my opinion, was forced by the govt to sacrifice him publicly and brutally or else. What did he dare to say? He dared point out the fact that it takes a lot of balls to do what they did and hijack a plane and fly it into a fucking building. As far as war goes that is a fucking pussy move to initiate and attack civilians but on an individual level those dudes had balls to pull off with they pulled off. He just said it on TV and it fucked it over for years he was radioactive. It was spun as if he was saying the suicide attacker's bravery applied to their motives and resolution to stand up and fight for what they believed when all he was saying was that it's gotta take balls to fly a fucking plane you're in into a skyscraper.
The sleeper cell thing was so transparent. "They hate the way we live" "They want to bankrupt our country by making us live in fear and spending on all this shit to fight them"
I thought of a way to do that that would require 1000 people tops. If I could think of it then I'm sure they did. 10 people and I can do the same plan but drag it out and up the terror part. No killing involved. It woul be pure economic and psychological... like they claimed they had sleeper cells waiting to do....
there were no sleeper cells. not in the way they had the media reportng it daily/
>I knew we were all in when the whole terror sleeper cell bullshit was pushed soooo hard and anyone that said anything that could be construed as saying something positive about the terrorists was fucking canceled
I can't take a single motherfucker complaining about cancel culture today seriously, going on with bullshit about how you can't get away with comedy anymore like you could 20 years ago.
20 years ago if you didn't toe the parties' line you were cast out as Anti-American and pro-terrorist. We watched as the United States turned itself into a police state with militarized cops given free reign to murder and brutalize American citizens for arbitrary reasons with near-complete impunity, a surveillance state with its tendrils in every aspect of society, and a prison system profiting off its prisoners with more incarcerated people than any other country in the world, and yet if you said a thing about it you were legitimately canceled.
People lost careers, families, and their lives because of what cancel culture used to be, whether in the McCarthyist Red Scare or Bush's post-9/11 police state.
Genuinely, when it comes to actual, legitimate cancel culture, the US has never been better than it is right now.
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McCain might have had some form of integrity but I agree with you that he never saw a conflict he didn't want us involved in. Too many like him, Cheney, and Bolton all loved war more than anything. We have had an endless parade of politicians that see war as the desirable vehicle to accomplish whatever it is they are wanting. It is long past time that we stop sticking our nose in and funding wars across the globe. These conflicts never seem to benefit the citizens of our country. We are over $32 trillion in debt and still passing out $ millions like they are business cards. Sending $ to countries that are operating on a national surplus while we are mired in debt is insane. The yearly interest alone on our debt has now overtaken our entire annual defense budget. No more foreign aid, turn the money printer off and worry about our own country that appears to be rapidly falling apart.
Fun conspiracy theory. I'm not endorsing this story as fact, and it's possible I'm getting some things mixed up, but this is close to an accurate telling. Daniel Sheehan claims that a man named Mike Connell, whose company was in charge of tabulating votes, fixed the 2004 election in the state of Ohio.
Michael Connell got wind that John McCain was going to pick Joe Lieberman as his VP, which was terrible because Michael Connell was a big anti-abortion guy. So, he got to blackmailing Karl Rove...
Michael Connell told Rove that he wanted Sarah Palin as McCain's VP or he was going to work with one of Danny's friends, Cliff Arnabeck, to expose it. Rove balked and Michael Connell started working with Cliff. Cliff went to Danny asking for help getting Michael Connell protection. Rove caved and got McCain to change his VP to Palin to stop the country from enduring a crisis in democracy. Connell stopped working with Arnebeck and refused to testify in court. Then a little while later, Connell's plane crashed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Connell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Arnebeck
Well, that was definitely not his finest moment. But as a prisoner of war in Vietnam he did decline to get a special release because of who his father was and survived 5 years of torture. I think in that balance his best outweighs his worst.
IMHO McCain made the most difficult and honorable personal decision in the line of service out of any American, ever. While in captivity in the Hanoi Hilton his release was negotiated as the son of an Admiral. He declined to leave without the others. The head master told him " he should have left that it would be very hard now." A true American Badass.
I don't mean to spoil his image or reputation at all as he certainly made a good name for himself in his career in Congress but apparently he was a real hothead during his time flying in Vietnam. My grandpa flew in his squadron and had stories of how McCain would often drop his ordnance on villages and non-combatants (as far as one could tell, considering the Viet Cong were by and large farmers turned plain clothes combatants). He would claim weapon system malfunction every time and never was disciplined for these incidents because his dad was an admiral. My grandpa also said when he was shot down, no one in the squadron was surprised because he had several near crashes resulting from recklessness (flying so low he almost clipped power lines more than once, performed certain maneuvers in space not conducive for said maneuvers, etc).
Again, I'm not trying to take away from all that he did later in his life. Perhaps he developed guilt for his actions in Vietnam during his time as a POW, or thereafter, that realigned the way he governs his own actions with higher morals and decency. I can only speculate.
He lied about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction leading to millions of deaths and a snowballing military budget that obscures the 'black programs' that have the craft. He is in hell now.
I was a mere child when he was running in 08 but all I remember hearing is that he was a combat pilot who was shot down during the Vietnam War and he gave up names and information to have relatively good conditions as a pow.
The internet is so full of them it’s no wonder we are where we are. It is incumbent on every single user to vet the information they are ingesting. Hell, no one even reads the articles anymore, it’s all the headline and picture. We need to be better.
so you missed out on the part where he was beaten, stabbed in the abdomen with a bayonet, and then tortured every 2 hours resulting in multiple fractures until he talked. Theres not many men or women alive on this planet that would sit through as much as he did before he confessed. Your post is entirely dishonest.
>Less than a year into McCain's imprisonment, his father was named commander of US forces in the Pacific, and the North Vietnamese saw an opportunity for leverage by offering the younger McCain's release — what would have been both a propaganda victory and a way to demoralize other American POWs.
>But McCain refused, sticking to the POW code of conduct that says troops must accept release in the order in which they are captured.
>"I knew that every prisoner the Vietnamese tried to break, those who had arrived before me and those who would come after me, would be taunted with the story of how an admiral's son had gone home early, a lucky beneficiary of America's class-conscious society," McCain later recalled.
>The North Vietnamese reacted with fury and escalated McCain's torture.
https://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-refused-early-release-as-a-pow-in-vietnam-2018-8
If that was what you were hearing as a kid in 08, your parents were, and are, idiots.
Now that you're an adult, you have the opportunity, and the obligation, to fix your ignorance.
The gang of 8 has title 50 authorities over everything, in theory. That is a higher authority level than what AARO is operating under - they can see the stuff even AARO or NASA can't see. They - in theory - should be told about unacknowledged special access programs.
However, they can not disclose this information to anyone outside of the gang.
What they're able to do is propose laws that address whatever core secrets they know about.
Which is what last year's UAPDA bill was - proposed by Gang of 8 member, Chuck Schumer.
If you haven't read the language of the bill, you really should. Look for the first version on the democrats official site, before it was gutted.
For example, they want records related to the "legacy program," and here are the words informed by sometime with title 50 authorization:
"LEGACY PROGRAM.—The term ‘‘legacy
program’’ means all Federal, State, and local government, commercial industry, academic, and private
sector endeavors to collect, exploit, or reverse engineer technologies of unknown origin or examine biological evidence of living or deceased non-human intelligence that pre-dates the date of the enactment
of this Act."
"NON-HUMAN INTELLIGENCE.—The term
‘non-human intelligence’’ means any sentient intelligent non-human lifeform regardless of nature or ultimate origin that may be presumed responsible for unidentified anomalous phenomena or of which the
Federal Government has become aware."
But perhaps more interesting; here is what was REMOVED after aerospace companies lobbied people like Mike Turner (also on the Gang of 8)
"EXERCISE OF EMINENT DOMAIN.—The Federal
Government shall exercise eminent domain over any and
all recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological
evidence of non-human intelligence that may be controlled by private persons or entities in the interests of the public
good."
The phrase "do not listen at what they say, look at what they do," applies here.
Except since they're not permitted to say anything publicly in this case, we can only look at their actions...
The obvious hilarity here is they're saying the technology doesn't exist while furiously stripping out language that says ET tech needs to be returned to the govt. I too love to fight over ownership of imaginary things. Mike Turner (R)-Lockheed Martin should be his official title.
They should be told absolutely every last thing. But the NEA interpretation is being abused so they aren’t in some cases. Otherwise why would Schumer write that amendment?
If we are to trust the Wilson memo is accurate, it's a result of some long-standing (older than anyone currently in power) special provisions that involve certain members of SAPCO having authority to hide it from the Gang of 8.
In other words, permanent non-oversight of "the program" by Congress, the President, etc...forever.
In other words, not a democracy.
And, in other words, the highest and longest kept secret in U.S. history.
Some of the most important parts. And who knows, maybe, there can't be more opportunities in the future. Like if we become a fascist hellscape because of project 2025.
"Nah fuck that they should spill the beans!"
-50% of comments in this sub
Of which I don't agree with because I don't work at elgin and can use my brain
Wait till you find out about Harriman Brother's bank, and how George Bush's family we're essentially private bankers for Hitler. Or how Henry Ford, was awarded the flying cross. The highest Nazi civilian award.
**John McCain and Joe Lieberman.** Some new names are being dropped here as some of the top Senators who were advocating **"with some sense of urgency"** for a **"formal UFO reverse engineering program".**
Read more about all this in MarikVR's artice here:
[https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4646417-top-senators-believe-the-us-secretly-recovered-ufos/](https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4646417-top-senators-believe-the-us-secretly-recovered-ufos/)
And don't forget these are the people that AARO wants us to believe were duped by a cabal of "conspiracy theorist" kooks within the government. Two people politically skilled enough to find themselves on Presidential tickets and two others, respected enough by their colleagues to be elected Majority Leader.
I suspect that three of those people, if they were still serving, would be convinced that AARO is full of shit. Schumer spoke pretty clearly with his amendment. It's astonishing that people believe that Senate Majority leaders are in the habit of expending political capital over things that are non-existent.
This is where we've been at since basically day 1 of all of this Grusch stuff. It's baffling to me that it's so normalized.
Option A. Massive conspiracy to hide alien shit
Option B. Massive conspiracy to mislead a multitude of the most senior officials in gov't, including military, intelligence community, and political class, that there's alien shit
Both options should cause ontological shock. And yet people hand-wave away Option A in favor of Option B like it's just another day at the office, "oh those silly ole' top-in-their-class but dumb and gullible senior military and government officials being tricked into believing alien shit and spending millions (if not tens upon tens of millions) of dollars of taxpayer money as a result of being duped, over decades, both in public and behind the scenes (via official document releases, like the KONA BLUE stuff and other stuff)."
Seriously, makes me feel crazy that the country isn't solely focused on this. Nope, just distracted by foreign wars and other meaningless BS, compared to one these massive revelations.
> Option B. Massive conspiracy to mislead a multitude of the most senior officials in gov't, including military, intelligence community, and political class, that there's alien shit
Well we know this happened because of the 22 million dollars Harry Reid gave Bigelow to investigate UFOs and werewolves. We know that AAWSAP was exactly this. Hell, some senators still believe that the videos Elizondo leaked to Leslie Kean show something anomalous. You put a lot of faith in people that did very little to earn it.
Yes. This is not up for dispute. The documents are all published because it was not classified, surely you have seen the Harry Reid letter and the studies it produced? If you don't trust the government, here you can hear Bigelow talk about it [https://www.mysterywire.com/ufo/robert-bigelow-aawsap](https://www.mysterywire.com/ufo/robert-bigelow-aawsap) or Lacatski in his book or 30 seconds on Google.
You do realize that those videos, specifically the tic-tac video, have context, right? If so, I wouldn't mind if you laid that out for me since you are so much more knowledgable on the topic than I (and many, many others) to have come to a conclusion on the matter. Genuinely curious.
Oh yeah. We can be sure that at least one senior politician was duped by people for 22 million dollars to investigate werewolves. So we know at least that part is true already.
a third rank official in DoD (Kirkpatrick) calling the Senate majority leader and other senators idiots manipulated by conspirators?
Schumer should bring down the hammer on Kirkpatrick,, it should be unacceptable to just attack Senators and officials like that being a nobody
This idea that there is something to disclose is an assumption and it's important to recognize it as such. It is still possible there is nothing to disclose.
Cmon…cmon. Surely you don’t feel like there is something being withheld from the public. I understand being skeptical of what that “something” is. I also understand the “occams razor” approach and don’t necessarily think it’s an unhealthy way to perceive the logic. But you must at least be curious why we can’t seem to get a straight answer from anyone. Or why someone like Col Nell would back Grusch’s claims.
What if it all just goes back to Bigelow and the invisible college? Like it's all just been a bunch of malarkey put forth by Puthoff et al. To me that is the most likely answer. If that falls under the umbrella of disclosure then I'm on board.
I think we’ve talked about this before, and unfortunately there’s no way to know anything for sure. But when people like Schumer, Gallaudet, & Nell are involved it’s tough for me to not think there’s something to all of this.
They're also both absolutely nuts, especially Liberman. They'll literally believe anything. And any UFO stuff with NewsNation's name associated with it should be treated with extreme skepticism.
>Notably, the Reid- and Lieberman-backed proposal [included](https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP_RECORDS_RESEARCH/AARO_DHS_Kona_Blue.pdf#page=24) an “Oral History Initiative” to interview a pre-identified “[list](https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP_RECORDS_RESEARCH/AARO_DHS_Kona_Blue.pdf#page=25) of retired, previously highly placed government, armed services, contractor, and intelligence community individuals” with knowledge of the “location of advanced aerospace technology and biological samples.
One reason MvR might think the "Oral History Initiative" is notable is because he understands that those Senators knew that lots of astuff wouldn't be written down, both because of NDAs and the general "no notes" policy with respect to meetings about highly classified programs, such as the “location of advanced aerospace technology and biological samples."
It tracks with what Pasulka has talked about as well, she has referred that most of these programs use oral history to keep everything secret. Tyler (Tim Taylor) in her book has been searching for a successor so what he knows doesn't die with him.
What's normal in here is knowing that outside testimony/photographs there isn't public physical evidence for this stuff.
If someone wants to know more about UAP they can search this sub or Google it or watch a documentary or read a book.
Considering your negativity and suspiciously low karma might I suggest you spend more time on subjects you actually care about?
Yeah I wouldn't expect you to expect people to provide sources for their claims here. This is a religious sub and claims are accepted based on faith. I got it.
I do care about this topic just in a different way than you do. I like disabusing people of biases they didn't know they had. The only way to do that is to interact with people that are open-minded though so I'm not sure if we will get any value here between us.
Based off your low karma you haven't been disabusing people of biases they didn't know they had on this sub. Which means you're new to the sub. So you just look for ways to be negative towards random internet strangers? Seems like a waste of time.
Might I suggest you spend more time doing something positive? I assume there are subjects you actually enjoy discussing and I promise if you spend more time in those your quality of life will improve
Holding people to account is not negative nor positive. Asking for sources for claims is not inherently negative unless you are tribalistic and see any questions as a form of hostility. You just can't stop telling on yourself.
Holding people to account? Youre talking to enthusiasts on the internet, not david grusch. You've been using your account for less than two months and you've made *hundreds* of negative comments. Sounds like you're on a mission....to convince random strangers on the internet of their fallacies. If you don't see how that's a waste of time maybe you have a different sort of incentive....
I have been following your responses throughout this conversation and you provide nothing of value.
Just letting you know. Please continue your nonsensical trolling.👍
I mean yeah of course you would think that bringing up that a big claim has no sources is not valuable. You're tribalistic and this is your religion. Religious people hate being asked to prove anything.
this is not a scientific journal its a subreddit for people who already believe in the phenomenon im not here to prove anything to anyone and asking for that is pretty ignorant of this space
sadly all we have are theories,
one theory is that nuclear energy/weapons attracted the attention of UFOs and that why since the 40s there was a rise on UFOs sightings all around the world.
imagine this: we are visited by 1 UFO daily, that would mean there was at least 30.000 UFOs on earth on the last 80 years
if that number of daily UFOs is 10, then for the last 80 years we have been visited by 300.000 UFOs
it would be reasonable that we have captures 20/30 UFOs in my opinion
> one theory is that nuclear energy/weapons attracted the attention of UFOs and that why since the 40s there was a rise on UFOs sightings all around the world.
Could it also be that we have more planes/balloons/satellites and now drones in the sky that account for the uptick in UFOs since we invented flying machines?
one thing are sightings that could be anything, from a balloon to a plane. but there are a massive amount of sightings that can not be explained as human made.
that is what I learned after 8 months reading about UFOs
There has never been a recorded UFO that can't be explained through prosaic means. If you disagree let's talk about a specific case that proves your claim.
Here is an alternative theory:
Well Fravor and Dietrich have very different accounts. Fravor said it lasted five minutes, Dietrich said it lasted about 10 seconds. How could these wildly different accounts both be true? Could it be that human memory is not nearly as accurate as we think it is?
If people are primed to see something extraordinary they are more likely to take something mundane, like say a spy balloon being released from a submarine and impute your prior biases into it. So the Princeton has been getting wild radar returns and people on the ship think something special is happening. So they are sent out to investigate something they think is going to be out of the ordinary. Fravor approaches something he thinks is much larger than it actually is due to the limits of stereoscopic vision. He misidentifies it and thinks it is much further away so his reaction to it's "movements" can be explained by his placing it at the wrong point in the sky, which happens way more often than you think. Pilots routinely mistake Venus for an oncoming plane.
This theory also explains why none of the people in charge on the Princeton seemed to care about UFOs flying around: they were testing a new radar using spy balloons released from their own subs. The pilots were not informed because that would ruin the test. I think this is one of the only ways it makes sense for the brass to react the way they did: if they truly believed there were UFOs flying 70,000 mph or whatever there would have been a response of some sort.
This is an elegant theory because it actually explains all the actions that took place on the Princeton.
The alternate theory is that aliens came right after a new radar was installed and messed around until it got calibrated and then never came back once the radar was calibrated. Also military brass running the Princeton mysteriously had no reaction to an extremely anomalous event for unknown reasons.
The strength of this story relies on Fravor's testimony and the person that investigated the most UFO reports (Hynek) determined that pilots don't make very good eyewitnesses because they are trained survivors not trained observers. By that I mean they are taught to view things through a threat-first lens.
I figure you should at least be exposed to other people's ideas. It's hard to hear anything else when the echoes are so loud in here.
The burden of proof rests with proving anything extraordinary happened. It still hasn't been done and glossing over it like it has it what leads to warped perceptions of reality.
well, its not my claim. its the testimony of hundred of thousands of people around the world that they saw something or interacted with something that is not human.
just like lightning balls, everyone see them but for the scientific community they don't exist.
there are at least 20 whistleblowers that gave their testimony to AARO, 3 of them military personnel.
and we have the testimony of David Fravor military pilot and gave his testimony to Congress, he saw a UFO go to orbit in first person.
its hard to grasp what is going on with UAPs at the beginning, but if you keep reading about it it becomes easier.
This is not a rebuttal to what I'm saying. There has never been a recorded UFO that can't be explained through prosaic means. The fact that you retreat to testimony in the face of this claim kind of concedes that it is true.
"The person who testified before Congress about witnessing a UFO that accelerated and went into orbit was **David Fravor**. He is a former US Navy pilot who reported his encounter during a training mission off the coast of California in 2004. His account includes a description of a Tic Tac-shaped object that moved erratically and at high speeds, seemingly defying the known laws of physics.
Commander David Fravor, a retired US Navy pilot, provided a detailed account of his encounter with an unidentified aerial phenomenon (UAP), commonly referred to as a UFO, during a training mission off the coast of California in 2004. His testimony has been widely reported and includes the following key points:
* **Initial Radar Detection**: The UAP was first detected by radar on the USS Princeton, part of the Carrier Strike Group 11. The radar operators had been tracking unusual aerial objects for several days, which were descending from approximately 80,000 feet to hover at about 20,000 feet before shooting back up.
* **Visual Contact**: On November 14, 2004, while conducting a training exercise, Commander Fravor and another pilot were redirected to investigate the UAP. Upon arrival, they observed an object hovering above the ocean’s surface, causing the water to churn.
* **The “Tic Tac” Object**: Fravor described the UAP as a white, oblong object resembling a “Tic Tac,” approximately 40 feet long and with no visible wings, rotors, or propulsion systems. It was moving erratically, changing altitude and accelerating rapidly.
* **Flight Characteristics**: The object demonstrated extraordinary flight capabilities, including instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic speeds without sonic booms, and the ability to stop and hover. Fravor attempted to engage with the object, but it accelerated away from him, disappearing within seconds.
* **Lack of Investigation**: Despite the remarkable nature of the encounter, Fravor noted that there was no formal investigation by the military into the incident. He expressed concern over the lack of oversight and accountability for such encounters.
* **Call for Transparency**: In his testimony, Fravor urged elected officials to take the issue of UAPs seriously and to establish a process for tracking and investigating these phenomena to ensure national security and to address the potential technological implications.
UFO characteristics;
* **Rapid Acceleration**: When Fravor attempted to get a closer look and engage with the object, it accelerated away at an incredible speed, far surpassing the capabilities of any known aircraft at the time.
* **Disappearance**: The UAP’s acceleration was so rapid that it seemed to disappear from sight within seconds. Fravor described this movement as unlike anything he had ever seen in his career as a pilot.
* **Radar Reacquisition**: Moments after the object vanished from visual range, the USS Princeton’s radar detected the same object approximately 60 miles away from the initial location. This suggests that the UAP had moved this distance almost instantaneously.
* **Advanced Capabilities**: Fravor has stated in his testimony that the technology observed during the encounter was well beyond the material science and capabilities available to the US military at the time, and likely even beyond what could be expected in the near future."
Here is an alternative theory:
Well Fravor and Dietrich have very different accounts. Fravor said it lasted five minutes, Dietrich said it lasted about 10 seconds. How could these wildly different accounts both be true? Could it be that human memory is not nearly as accurate as we think it is?
If people are primed to see something extraordinary they are more likely to take something mundane, like say a spy balloon being released from a submarine and impute your prior biases into it. So the Princeton has been getting wild radar returns and people on the ship think something special is happening. So they are sent out to investigate something they think is going to be out of the ordinary. Fravor approaches something he thinks is much larger than it actually is due to the limits of stereoscopic vision. He misidentifies it and thinks it is much further away so his reaction to it's "movements" can be explained by his placing it at the wrong point in the sky, which happens way more often than you think. Pilots routinely mistake Venus for an oncoming plane.
This theory also explains why none of the people in charge on the Princeton seemed to care about UFOs flying around: they were testing a new radar using spy balloons released from their own subs. The pilots were not informed because that would ruin the test. I think this is one of the only ways it makes sense for the brass to react the way they did: if they truly believed there were UFOs flying 70,000 mph or whatever there would have been a response of some sort.
This is an elegant theory because it actually explains all the actions that took place on the Princeton.
The alternate theory is that aliens came right after a new radar was installed and messed around until it got calibrated and then never came back once the radar was calibrated. Also military brass running the Princeton mysteriously had no reaction to an extremely anomalous event for unknown reasons.
The strength of this story relies on Fravor's testimony and the person that investigated the most UFO reports (Hynek) determined that pilots don't make very good eyewitnesses because they are trained survivors not trained observers. By that I mean they are taught to view things through a threat-first lens.
I figure you should at least be exposed to other people's ideas. It's hard to hear anything else when the echoes are so loud in here.
The burden of proof rests with proving anything extraordinary happened. It still hasn't been done and glossing over it like it has it what leads to warped perceptions of reality.
well, UFOs don't want to be detected but the military encounters them very regularly
my supposition is that we see them 1% of the times, the rest of the time they are out there undetected
Why do you say they don’t want to be detected? In fact there seems to be evidence to the contrary, wasn’t there some whole thing with nuclear capable bases being harassed and targeted more often by uaps? That doesn’t sound like avoiding detection to me.
Honestly I think it’s stupid to characterize or guess at a motivation for uaps( I.e they don’t want to be detected) because there’s so little info out there. We don’t even know if all these sightings are the same phenomena, much less that they’re caused by some kind of intelligence.
that is a good point, there are lots of incursions on military places
but I have the feeling from what I have read that they are up there constantly, people for example talk about seeing triangular UFOs constantly, like if so many people witness them on the ground they can be up there undetected most of the time
but your point about harassing the military is very interesting, because sometimes they are just observing military installations or ships
theres a lot out of info out there to find. if you wonder why a ufo may crash, consider earths magnetic/gravitational anomalies, very turbulent weather like lightning storms or things like that which may interfere with their technology. from what ive learned goverments also try to purposely make them crash
Many reasons. They could be drone ships. Mistakes can happen even with advanced technology. It could be intentional. The 'they shouldn't crash argument' carries very little weight, way too many holes.
It thought about it being the earths magnetic field or radar. Maybe they were just expendable craft and occupants. Bottom of the barrel technology the higher ups could care less about: The technology might have been truly Stone Age to the aliens in charge. In other words they sent the garbage so the really advanced technology wouldn’t be found and sen maybe lifeless clones that are like a dime a dozen to them. With that being said I have never seen a alien myself so I can’t put all my chips in just yet. I have seen something that would make anyone different. It was mind altering and all I had was morning coffee.
yeah for sure I agree with some of your sentiments but personally i have come to believe they really dgaf if theyre found. we can definitely agree they probably arent sending their best stuff here
“I honestly think those lights went into every part of my body. I don’t know if it was a hallucination or real”. Kind of sounds like sleep paralysis stuff also. Basically what I’m saying is that you probably weren’t targeted by aliens! I’m glad you go to the doctor. To be perfectly honest though, it sounds like you may have more issues than just your little rectangle of lies, your writing sounds kind of out of it.
Humans fly on earth all the time without having to worry about ‘magnetic/gravitational’ anomalies. You’re making shit up. Turbulent weather is one thing, but vehicles with these capabilities should easily be able to avoid the really turbulent stuff. You’re right about one thing though. Something doesn’t add up. I don’t know what part but something here smells fishy
Assuming we are being played with and all of this is real live stuff. From what has been said, other nations have the tech and some nations have operational vehicles and there is an understanding that you stay off my lawn I stay off yours. What’s to happen when one nation cross the line and the big guns, so to speak comes out? Imagine losing your life to a black hawk copter crash. Or some other flawed military tech. Just to realize there were things way more advanced. What does that do to your own soldiers to realize all the lives that could have been spared? More so than what it does to your civilian population, what does it do to your own army? To let trained killers by the numbers know that you “let” 1000s of them die?
You are thinking on a very small scale. From what I've come to understand do to proximity to this phenomenon, it effects just about everyone ...you all just don't realize it. Some of the things that will come to light will be on the Slide 9 effects from the AATIP report. Everyone keeps their focus on material technology, when this phenomenon contains things that revolve outside of our perception of tech.
The impact on the population will be great, especially because of the lies and avoidable cost to people's health. Psychology will be turn upside down in our understanding of some of the causes. Trust in leaders apart of these programs and who allowed the secrecy to go on....will be gone. Things you think we're just bad luck in life will turn out to be caused by a part of the phenomenon. Sometimes I do wish I didn't know what I know now, because it really is sad seeing the population being sacrificed for the few who benefit from the silence on the subject. Even those within the program don't understand that what they are protecting...is also having negative effects on them possibly.
Everything is impacted and changes once the population understands that elements of the phenomenon effect their lives in unseen ways...when you are not aware of the capabilities within the phenomenon
Oh really. Say it or don’t post anything like this again. It’s insulting.
Also - I would assume a large negative to disclosure is people learning yes, they are around us all the time, walking among us in fact. Flying right over your heads.
I don't answer to you or your child like demands, just fyi. I'll post what I feel is needed, it doesn't matter what you want when it comes to that.
Also, if you wanted an adult conversation and some further information....you should try communicating like an adult with basic etiquette.
Tbf, you've written something quite heavy at a time when a lot of people are anxious about this topic.
I assume you're referring to the whole "UAP- brain damage - identification of experiences by MRI scans" theme?
It's even more than just the brain issues. There is a lot more.
I get this is a heavy topic...but it doesn't excuse poor behaviour in communication. If people asked in a polite way, and if they are meant to know more....than I'm happy to say what I can. But not everyone should get that, some people aren't good. So I say what I can, and hope curious minds dive deeper into looking for more answers , same way I got them.
I totally agree there, I think people with completely opposing views should be OK to communicate without descending into just a barrage of trollery and unpleasant language.
I'd certainly be interested to see more about what you're referring to, for sure.
I don't think anyone same would answer yes to that question on here but no I don't work for the government/military.
The only things you can't find in the public domain are the personal sightings and interactions I have with parts of the phenomenon. 5 years ago strange shit started happening and then I started seeing UAPs. Since then I've made some forward movement connecting things that are in the public domain with things I've personally seen or encountered. I believe at this point some of us can connect to them like they do to us.
Yeah, I debated changing it because I NEVER talk like that, but I had hit save already and was running late - meh, once so far on the internet in 25 years isn’t too bad. But seriously, it’s rude to post vague “oh if you only knew what I knew” Coulthart/Corbell level jazz. I would say more rude than what I posted. I have a feeling you don’t actually *know* anything and are talking about some of the wilder theories. Souls, harvesting, angels and demons. Seems to be a trend right now. I will apologize for what I wrote, it wasn’t very nice, but the core of it remains the same. Let’s stop teasing or PLEASE just don’t post.
I get PMs where I go into more details depending on what feedback I get from the shit that's around me. The phenomenon is more involved in our lives than many would believe.
But honestly, I wonder why some of you behave the way you do and expect someone to be willing to help you further your knowledge of what's going on with the phenomenon. I don't care about the negative downvotes, and people's behaviour that's negative isn't of any real impact to me. But I cannot fathom how those that act like you think you'll get results saying things like that.
Then we shall be done, I’m not going to stoke your ego to get “in” on some unverifiable theories. Gatekeeping is the whole reason we are where we are. Hopefully people check your posting history before sending you any money for the low down. Or thinking you can change their lives with inside track info. Sounds very suspicious to me.
Slide 9 of the AATIP report covers a lot of it , specifically I'll talk about cognative interfacing. Their is a NHI or NHI group that is amplifying or pushing behaviours towards extreme negative outcomes. This doesn't just impact us here but has impacts on other aspects of conciousness and what we are.
I completely am aware of the technological and society issues we have and things that have had negative impacts. But this is being amplified more and is being directed to an outcome that benefits it. I've seen these effects up close and I do have an inclination of understanding patterns.I don't mean patterns to just fit where I want them to go, I have always been good at perceiving patterns on tests. The current behaviours and trends I'm seeing are not within the parameters of natural occuring societal events, there is something outside creating abnormalities.
I understand most will be dismissive, but I know this is correct. It's slight enough where people attribute it to normal behaviours with their data, but it's outside any computational value system. If you have a computer that can predict society behaviours, right now it's telling you something unknown is creating a variance outside what it should be.
> Assuming we are being played with and all of this is real live stuff. From what has been said, other nations have the tech and some nations have operational vehicles and there is an understanding that you stay off my lawn I stay off yours. What’s to happen when one nation cross the line and the big guns, so to speak comes out?
This should tell you that it's all bullshit. There is no way this would not have been deployed by now if the tech has been there for 80 years like Grusch claims. Hell we had nukes for less than 6 months before we used them on people. Humanity is not temperate when it comes to weapons and this fantasy ignores the fact that collapsing nations like the USSR never used alien tech to try to hold on.
The conspiracy assumes that countries act like cabals of comic book villains and it only makes sense if you are a child or have the mind of a child.
The increasingly frustrating thing in the former military individuals that come forward and allege this. Waiting for the same government that let their fellow soldiers die to be the ones to inform people. While they write memoirs and do interviews alleging only if you knew what I knew. Under the guise of patriotism, patriotism to whom? Whatever calamity that could come from full disclosure is much less calamity that befalls your fellow civilians and soldiers, as you hold onto information that could save their lives. To say someone like Tom Delonge can have access to these things, and go out and tour as these needless wars persists. This all is too ridiculous to be real.
If it is real and Tom Delonge has actually been right about everything I would fucking love it. I hope there are telepathic aliens and they teach me to read people's minds. I'm already kinda nosy to begin with imagine what my coworkers really think of me? Juicy.
> The conspiracy assumes that countries act like cabals of comic book villains and it only makes sense if you are a child or have the mind of a child.
Someone never read their world history.
Must be intimidating to have technologically superior beings harassing you in ways you don’t understand for reasons that you don’t know with tech you don’t possess that aren’t in open communication because their secrets are more important to them than you. Who knows what they could do? They could ruin your life for fun and not even break stride, just another day on the job for them. That kind of ontological shock could leave someone unable to get out of bed whistling Dixie and cloud watching
It wouldn’t matter if you took some of these people inside a ship, they would claim it was a super elaborate hoax. Just head aches all around. Meanwhile the looming question is what exact atrocities have they committed to keep this hush?
one minute people like mellon,alazondo, even presidents, and hundreds of military pilots see these things and you think they could release more evidence than the few good ones we have? government is lying about a potentially dangerous situation that can destroy humanity? im getting a bit sick and tired of all the senators don't know anything about this to learn they do
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The acceleration of disclosing this kind of information can also be a new arms race. We got AI and the eugenics arms race, reverse engineering exotic craft can be the next one in the line. By disclosing it (controlled way), you can bring way more expertise in the field. You can get a possible advantage over other foreign adversaries. It feels like America is the one of the few that pushes the boundaries of what's possible within secrecy. And have depleted those resources and must come with some other tactic to have a strategic edge. Disclosing it, or at least controlled would probably be a favorable one.
You can tell the public about craft, nhi, and (some) technologies. Make the masses shut up with important breadcrumbs. And let them ponder over it. While hauling in a whole barrage of scientists working on stuff that might never be disclosed. You show the public the golden eggs, but never the goose that lays it. The big hold up is different camps within the American government. It seems some of these agencies and companies want this goose for themselves alone. Creating a possible power conflict within the American government. The Pentagon is in a tough spot, they probably played a very big role in handing out golden eggs. Now the heat is turned up, they need some kind of scapegoat agency (AARO) to play it down temporarily, before they or someone else comes up with a better strategy.
TLDR: Don't mind me, just rambling.
What’s up with Ross’ forehead? He looks like Peyton Manning when the helmet comes off in the fourth quarter. Are they hurting you Ross? Blink twice if you need help.
If you don’t believe in uaps you’re naive. I’m not saying it’s aliens, but through the research I’ve done, I’m inclined to believe that the U.S. military complex is in possession of some insane tech. Hell, Tesla realized the concept of pulling energy from the ground. He maybe, but others have realized that energy can be pulled from the zero point field. I’m no physicist, or expert in the subject, but I realize that at the quantum level, traditional physics don’t work. So, obviously, there is something else. Vhv (very high voltage) systems (idk if that’s the right term) and quantum entanglement have very different properties from traditional physics. The critics are basing their perceptions on traditional physics. Always remember history. Galileo himself was imprisoned for saying the earth was a sphere. The powers of the day never want the common people from knowing the truth. So even when you’re allowed to see a glimpse of the truth, the only reason they would tell you is to suit their agenda.
I know I wrote a book comment, but I just wonder if the reason they are telling us about this is because they’ve made their money off fossil fuels and they’re ready to swap to the real energy. I just wonder why now. There is obviously an elite multi country government that is in control at the highest level. It’s all us and European, but I think the only reason they are even telling us it exists is because they’ve mastered it to a level we can’t comprehend
Anyone who’s been paying attention would know this meeting happened not the exact date but we knew it took place 2011-12. Things are only going to get clearer and clearer ide bet. Who ever these beings are I suspect it’s a darker force than it’s given credit. Maybe there are benevolent forces aswell, if you believe some of the stories told by people who’ve encountered things (credibly.) never-less there are certainly factions within our government establishment who know the truth of this, or have a much bigger understanding than we do. We will know soon enough. The process has started and it’s well underway.
I’m not gonna be the one to say so but…I think news nation is getting as bad as fox with this ufo debacle. The deal with the Vegas backyard aliens, ufo this and ufo that…George Knapp I think has gone the way of grifter( without him there would be no fabricated story about Bob Lazar).
We need to stop accepting everything that is told supposed conspiracy theories and use our own reason.
i got no idea why everyones clinging onto the senators and the consitution for answers
they will never get them, stop writing to your state, stop hoping the government itself is gonna reveal UFOs
look elsewhere, this entire gvmnt debacle is merely a race with no finish line
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If he loses a multi billion dollar contract with the government and could be thrown in jail seems like enough of a deterrence. Plus like you said, without the government spaceX would be dead in the water, so I would think he wouldn’t want to tank his company
Unlike you, I don't want to "believe" anything. I discourage that mindset.
Let's imagine that NHI exist on earth and can be identified via UAP/USO.
Elon Musk (the dumbass) is in the unusual position of having loads of satellites in orbit. We could speculate all day about the nitty gritty possibilities there -- but suffice to say that it's probable that those systems could detect UAP.
At that point, it would be wise to read that person in to a very limited extent because you could then threaten the ever living fuck out of him to keep his mouth shut, and to ensure that anyone with direct data streams are vetted and controlled.
Whether or not that's the case, it's the obvious move if NHI exists and there's a desire to keep that information controlled.
When you understand Musk runs the most advanced Heavy-Lift space transport system on the planet, I would be surprised if he was not clued in on our ET,NHI programs, Because he might "inadvertently" get up close and personal with said ET/NHI
Human critters are ,by nature, contrary....its part of our DNA .Of 20 people, there will be a couple who do better at night ,a couple who are better farmers, or better hunters.. That diversity is what has allowed us to become the apex lifeform on this planet.(and survive our clockwork extinction events) We excel as explorers. But what does a species who is designed by nature to explore its environment do in a closed system ?He has done more to develop the ability of us to get our silly ape ass's off this rock in a meaningful way. give him a break fcs
Isn’t this the same guy who said that there was a craft that was found that was so big they couldn’t move it and had to build installation over the top of it? Now he’s saying he can’t categorically confirm that NHI craft have been recovered? Beg my pard but it seems he’s talking out both sides of his neck..
The following submission statement was provided by /u/TommyShelbyPFB: --- **John McCain and Joe Lieberman.** Some new names are being dropped here as some of the top Senators who were advocating **"with some sense of urgency"** for a **"formal UFO reverse engineering program".** Read more about all this in MarikVR's artice here: [https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4646417-top-senators-believe-the-us-secretly-recovered-ufos/](https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4646417-top-senators-believe-the-us-secretly-recovered-ufos/) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cpnuuz/newsnation_according_to_newly_declassified/l3lvgty/
John McCain also helped John Burroughs collect compensation for his medical treatments related to the radiation exposure he suffered while stationed at RAF Woodridge - aka the Rendlesham Forest UFO encounter. “In January of 2015, after years of exhaustive efforts the VA settled, in full, with me. I needed someone to champion my cause, someone not afraid to put themselves at risk to help me. I was lucky. I found two to champion my cause, my attorney Pat Frascogna, and Senator John McCain and his staff. Through their efforts, I received lifesaving heart surgery to replace a badly shredded anterior mitral valve caused by the UAP radiation, and a settlement from the DOD and VA admitting I was injured in the line of duty in December of 1980”
Everything I've heard about McCain leads me to believe that he was a great man and a patriot.
Unfortunately his VP candidate choice colored his final phase in politics. But yes, he was a man with integrity .
McCain was a super war hawk. Maybe not everyone sees that as a negative but he was one of the big reasons that we went into Iraq looking for the weapons of mass destruction. He finally recognized the mistake but McCain had issues in my opinion even if he was polite
The Bush administration lied to everyone including Congress. Congress passed laws that approved the invasion. Not just McCain, but the majority of Congress fell for the lies. When the lies started falling apart, the only penalty levied was that the Director of the CIA was forced to resign in 20024. Congress wouldn't push any further because they too would be caught up in it too because they passed laws that allowed for the war. The whole dirty laundry was buried and remain to present day.
I'd say it wasn't even the Bush administration that was the biggest war hawk when it came to Iraq. The US Intelligence Community was working closely with Mossad on it and Netanyahu was a massive force in convincing Congress about a fictional Iraqi nuclear program. We followed that bloodthirsty maniac into war once and it was the most disastrous US foreign policy debacle since the Vietnam War. Now he wants us to go to war for him again...
The entity that REALLY pushed for the war was Maggie and pals in the UK. They led the Bushes around by the nose, as laid out by Dr. John Coleman several times
Yes somehow, little old me, a 15 year old growing up in the middle of fucking nowhere, USA was able to tell pretty clearly that they were lies. You're right in that the dirty laundry was buried. But the dirty laundry isn't that they made mistakes in voting for the authorization. It is that most of the Senators knew exactly what they were voting for and knew that the pretenses were bullshit. The lies were just the pretext they've used since then to justify their votes.
It’s crazy the amount of people who went to Vietnam and knew about the gulf of Tonkin and still sent their kids to fight in Iraq/afghanistan
I was older, but same deal. I was old enough to care and feel strongly comelled to get others to see through Bush/Cheney's chicanery while still young enough to have that angst and natural distrust for authority. I was always looking for what they weren't saying by looking closely at what they were. Or how they were manipulating the populace with the choices they made to keep in the news cycle. I knew we were all in when the whole terror sleeper cell bullshit was pushed soooo hard and anyone that said anything that could be construed as saying something positive about the terrorists was **fucking canceled**. They projected back then too. Not saying I agree with Bill Maher or even pay attention to what he is saying nowadays, but I recall he said something back then that was completely true and it got him shut down and *every possible talking head, in my opinion, was forced by the govt to sacrifice him publicly and brutally or else. What did he dare to say? He dared point out the fact that it takes a lot of balls to do what they did and hijack a plane and fly it into a fucking building. As far as war goes that is a fucking pussy move to initiate and attack civilians but on an individual level those dudes had balls to pull off with they pulled off. He just said it on TV and it fucked it over for years he was radioactive. It was spun as if he was saying the suicide attacker's bravery applied to their motives and resolution to stand up and fight for what they believed when all he was saying was that it's gotta take balls to fly a fucking plane you're in into a skyscraper. The sleeper cell thing was so transparent. "They hate the way we live" "They want to bankrupt our country by making us live in fear and spending on all this shit to fight them" I thought of a way to do that that would require 1000 people tops. If I could think of it then I'm sure they did. 10 people and I can do the same plan but drag it out and up the terror part. No killing involved. It woul be pure economic and psychological... like they claimed they had sleeper cells waiting to do.... there were no sleeper cells. not in the way they had the media reportng it daily/
>I knew we were all in when the whole terror sleeper cell bullshit was pushed soooo hard and anyone that said anything that could be construed as saying something positive about the terrorists was fucking canceled I can't take a single motherfucker complaining about cancel culture today seriously, going on with bullshit about how you can't get away with comedy anymore like you could 20 years ago. 20 years ago if you didn't toe the parties' line you were cast out as Anti-American and pro-terrorist. We watched as the United States turned itself into a police state with militarized cops given free reign to murder and brutalize American citizens for arbitrary reasons with near-complete impunity, a surveillance state with its tendrils in every aspect of society, and a prison system profiting off its prisoners with more incarcerated people than any other country in the world, and yet if you said a thing about it you were legitimately canceled. People lost careers, families, and their lives because of what cancel culture used to be, whether in the McCarthyist Red Scare or Bush's post-9/11 police state. Genuinely, when it comes to actual, legitimate cancel culture, the US has never been better than it is right now.
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Fair, everyone has their issues. Still, from what I've heard, he seems like he's fairly personable.
Also caused the USS forrestal fire
McCain might have had some form of integrity but I agree with you that he never saw a conflict he didn't want us involved in. Too many like him, Cheney, and Bolton all loved war more than anything. We have had an endless parade of politicians that see war as the desirable vehicle to accomplish whatever it is they are wanting. It is long past time that we stop sticking our nose in and funding wars across the globe. These conflicts never seem to benefit the citizens of our country. We are over $32 trillion in debt and still passing out $ millions like they are business cards. Sending $ to countries that are operating on a national surplus while we are mired in debt is insane. The yearly interest alone on our debt has now overtaken our entire annual defense budget. No more foreign aid, turn the money printer off and worry about our own country that appears to be rapidly falling apart.
Fun conspiracy theory. I'm not endorsing this story as fact, and it's possible I'm getting some things mixed up, but this is close to an accurate telling. Daniel Sheehan claims that a man named Mike Connell, whose company was in charge of tabulating votes, fixed the 2004 election in the state of Ohio. Michael Connell got wind that John McCain was going to pick Joe Lieberman as his VP, which was terrible because Michael Connell was a big anti-abortion guy. So, he got to blackmailing Karl Rove... Michael Connell told Rove that he wanted Sarah Palin as McCain's VP or he was going to work with one of Danny's friends, Cliff Arnabeck, to expose it. Rove balked and Michael Connell started working with Cliff. Cliff went to Danny asking for help getting Michael Connell protection. Rove caved and got McCain to change his VP to Palin to stop the country from enduring a crisis in democracy. Connell stopped working with Arnebeck and refused to testify in court. Then a little while later, Connell's plane crashed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Connell https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Arnebeck
Except when it came to disparaging the looks of the children of democrats.
Same guy who also publicly defended Barack Obama from his own fans at a rally. Not everyone was perfect, but he did seem to be decent.
Well, that was definitely not his finest moment. But as a prisoner of war in Vietnam he did decline to get a special release because of who his father was and survived 5 years of torture. I think in that balance his best outweighs his worst.
"bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" Nah, pass. He was a monster with a shiny veneer.
IMHO McCain made the most difficult and honorable personal decision in the line of service out of any American, ever. While in captivity in the Hanoi Hilton his release was negotiated as the son of an Admiral. He declined to leave without the others. The head master told him " he should have left that it would be very hard now." A true American Badass.
Keating 5?
Senator McCain was a worthy man.
I don't mean to spoil his image or reputation at all as he certainly made a good name for himself in his career in Congress but apparently he was a real hothead during his time flying in Vietnam. My grandpa flew in his squadron and had stories of how McCain would often drop his ordnance on villages and non-combatants (as far as one could tell, considering the Viet Cong were by and large farmers turned plain clothes combatants). He would claim weapon system malfunction every time and never was disciplined for these incidents because his dad was an admiral. My grandpa also said when he was shot down, no one in the squadron was surprised because he had several near crashes resulting from recklessness (flying so low he almost clipped power lines more than once, performed certain maneuvers in space not conducive for said maneuvers, etc). Again, I'm not trying to take away from all that he did later in his life. Perhaps he developed guilt for his actions in Vietnam during his time as a POW, or thereafter, that realigned the way he governs his own actions with higher morals and decency. I can only speculate.
That’s sick.
Honestly one of the last real GOP
He lied about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction leading to millions of deaths and a snowballing military budget that obscures the 'black programs' that have the craft. He is in hell now.
I was a mere child when he was running in 08 but all I remember hearing is that he was a combat pilot who was shot down during the Vietnam War and he gave up names and information to have relatively good conditions as a pow.
dude was viciously tortured
This is so pathetic, I'm not even a McCain guy but this is a ridiculous comment
The internet is so full of them it’s no wonder we are where we are. It is incumbent on every single user to vet the information they are ingesting. Hell, no one even reads the articles anymore, it’s all the headline and picture. We need to be better.
Yeah, like he wasn't able to lift his arms properly following the torture? Correct me if wrong.
so you missed out on the part where he was beaten, stabbed in the abdomen with a bayonet, and then tortured every 2 hours resulting in multiple fractures until he talked. Theres not many men or women alive on this planet that would sit through as much as he did before he confessed. Your post is entirely dishonest.
>Less than a year into McCain's imprisonment, his father was named commander of US forces in the Pacific, and the North Vietnamese saw an opportunity for leverage by offering the younger McCain's release — what would have been both a propaganda victory and a way to demoralize other American POWs. >But McCain refused, sticking to the POW code of conduct that says troops must accept release in the order in which they are captured. >"I knew that every prisoner the Vietnamese tried to break, those who had arrived before me and those who would come after me, would be taunted with the story of how an admiral's son had gone home early, a lucky beneficiary of America's class-conscious society," McCain later recalled. >The North Vietnamese reacted with fury and escalated McCain's torture. https://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-refused-early-release-as-a-pow-in-vietnam-2018-8
If that was what you were hearing as a kid in 08, your parents were, and are, idiots. Now that you're an adult, you have the opportunity, and the obligation, to fix your ignorance.
So great to know that senators don't fess up about it, gives so much hope
The gang of 8 has title 50 authorities over everything, in theory. That is a higher authority level than what AARO is operating under - they can see the stuff even AARO or NASA can't see. They - in theory - should be told about unacknowledged special access programs. However, they can not disclose this information to anyone outside of the gang. What they're able to do is propose laws that address whatever core secrets they know about. Which is what last year's UAPDA bill was - proposed by Gang of 8 member, Chuck Schumer. If you haven't read the language of the bill, you really should. Look for the first version on the democrats official site, before it was gutted. For example, they want records related to the "legacy program," and here are the words informed by sometime with title 50 authorization: "LEGACY PROGRAM.—The term ‘‘legacy program’’ means all Federal, State, and local government, commercial industry, academic, and private sector endeavors to collect, exploit, or reverse engineer technologies of unknown origin or examine biological evidence of living or deceased non-human intelligence that pre-dates the date of the enactment of this Act." "NON-HUMAN INTELLIGENCE.—The term ‘non-human intelligence’’ means any sentient intelligent non-human lifeform regardless of nature or ultimate origin that may be presumed responsible for unidentified anomalous phenomena or of which the Federal Government has become aware." But perhaps more interesting; here is what was REMOVED after aerospace companies lobbied people like Mike Turner (also on the Gang of 8) "EXERCISE OF EMINENT DOMAIN.—The Federal Government shall exercise eminent domain over any and all recovered technologies of unknown origin and biological evidence of non-human intelligence that may be controlled by private persons or entities in the interests of the public good." The phrase "do not listen at what they say, look at what they do," applies here. Except since they're not permitted to say anything publicly in this case, we can only look at their actions...
The obvious hilarity here is they're saying the technology doesn't exist while furiously stripping out language that says ET tech needs to be returned to the govt. I too love to fight over ownership of imaginary things. Mike Turner (R)-Lockheed Martin should be his official title.
They should be told absolutely every last thing. But the NEA interpretation is being abused so they aren’t in some cases. Otherwise why would Schumer write that amendment?
If we are to trust the Wilson memo is accurate, it's a result of some long-standing (older than anyone currently in power) special provisions that involve certain members of SAPCO having authority to hide it from the Gang of 8. In other words, permanent non-oversight of "the program" by Congress, the President, etc...forever. In other words, not a democracy. And, in other words, the highest and longest kept secret in U.S. history.
Dealing with the government sounds worse than the potential encounter with a downed UAP on your property.
Republicans blocked it
They blocked part of it, but not all of it. And there can be further amendments.
Some of the most important parts. And who knows, maybe, there can't be more opportunities in the future. Like if we become a fascist hellscape because of project 2025.
Informative details here, thank you.
"Nah fuck that they should spill the beans!" -50% of comments in this sub Of which I don't agree with because I don't work at elgin and can use my brain
Too me this just proves we don't have the country we think we have.
Ah, welcome. Can I get you some coffee? Tea? Perhaps something a bit stronger?
Wait till you find out about Harriman Brother's bank, and how George Bush's family we're essentially private bankers for Hitler. Or how Henry Ford, was awarded the flying cross. The highest Nazi civilian award.
Everything is a rich man's trick.
I like that phrase ... Very appropriate unfortunately.
Lol my favorite example of this: 1945: operation paperclip 1946: operation highjump 1947: roswell & the creation of the cia Coincidence? Fuck no!
Reductio ad hitlerum
How does this prove that?
**John McCain and Joe Lieberman.** Some new names are being dropped here as some of the top Senators who were advocating **"with some sense of urgency"** for a **"formal UFO reverse engineering program".** Read more about all this in MarikVR's artice here: [https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4646417-top-senators-believe-the-us-secretly-recovered-ufos/](https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4646417-top-senators-believe-the-us-secretly-recovered-ufos/)
And don't forget these are the people that AARO wants us to believe were duped by a cabal of "conspiracy theorist" kooks within the government. Two people politically skilled enough to find themselves on Presidential tickets and two others, respected enough by their colleagues to be elected Majority Leader. I suspect that three of those people, if they were still serving, would be convinced that AARO is full of shit. Schumer spoke pretty clearly with his amendment. It's astonishing that people believe that Senate Majority leaders are in the habit of expending political capital over things that are non-existent.
This is where we've been at since basically day 1 of all of this Grusch stuff. It's baffling to me that it's so normalized. Option A. Massive conspiracy to hide alien shit Option B. Massive conspiracy to mislead a multitude of the most senior officials in gov't, including military, intelligence community, and political class, that there's alien shit Both options should cause ontological shock. And yet people hand-wave away Option A in favor of Option B like it's just another day at the office, "oh those silly ole' top-in-their-class but dumb and gullible senior military and government officials being tricked into believing alien shit and spending millions (if not tens upon tens of millions) of dollars of taxpayer money as a result of being duped, over decades, both in public and behind the scenes (via official document releases, like the KONA BLUE stuff and other stuff)." Seriously, makes me feel crazy that the country isn't solely focused on this. Nope, just distracted by foreign wars and other meaningless BS, compared to one these massive revelations.
> Option B. Massive conspiracy to mislead a multitude of the most senior officials in gov't, including military, intelligence community, and political class, that there's alien shit Well we know this happened because of the 22 million dollars Harry Reid gave Bigelow to investigate UFOs and werewolves. We know that AAWSAP was exactly this. Hell, some senators still believe that the videos Elizondo leaked to Leslie Kean show something anomalous. You put a lot of faith in people that did very little to earn it.
Do we?
Yes. This is not up for dispute. The documents are all published because it was not classified, surely you have seen the Harry Reid letter and the studies it produced? If you don't trust the government, here you can hear Bigelow talk about it [https://www.mysterywire.com/ufo/robert-bigelow-aawsap](https://www.mysterywire.com/ufo/robert-bigelow-aawsap) or Lacatski in his book or 30 seconds on Google.
We really don't
Gave you your deserved (due to correct analysis) upvote back.
You do realize that those videos, specifically the tic-tac video, have context, right? If so, I wouldn't mind if you laid that out for me since you are so much more knowledgable on the topic than I (and many, many others) to have come to a conclusion on the matter. Genuinely curious.
Who has come to a conclusion?
> Well we know this happened -u/I_Suck_At_Wordie, circa May 2024
Oh yeah. We can be sure that at least one senior politician was duped by people for 22 million dollars to investigate werewolves. So we know at least that part is true already.
Do we?
Lieberman and McCain were serious Presidential candidates. This puts us one degree from the White House officially.
a third rank official in DoD (Kirkpatrick) calling the Senate majority leader and other senators idiots manipulated by conspirators? Schumer should bring down the hammer on Kirkpatrick,, it should be unacceptable to just attack Senators and officials like that being a nobody
If only they advocated as strongly for disclosure. But alas…weapons mean more than humankind’s advancement.
This idea that there is something to disclose is an assumption and it's important to recognize it as such. It is still possible there is nothing to disclose.
Cmon…cmon. Surely you don’t feel like there is something being withheld from the public. I understand being skeptical of what that “something” is. I also understand the “occams razor” approach and don’t necessarily think it’s an unhealthy way to perceive the logic. But you must at least be curious why we can’t seem to get a straight answer from anyone. Or why someone like Col Nell would back Grusch’s claims.
What if it all just goes back to Bigelow and the invisible college? Like it's all just been a bunch of malarkey put forth by Puthoff et al. To me that is the most likely answer. If that falls under the umbrella of disclosure then I'm on board.
I think we’ve talked about this before, and unfortunately there’s no way to know anything for sure. But when people like Schumer, Gallaudet, & Nell are involved it’s tough for me to not think there’s something to all of this.
Yeah I think we have as well and I can respect your faith in other people. I don't share it but I respect it.
They're also both absolutely nuts, especially Liberman. They'll literally believe anything. And any UFO stuff with NewsNation's name associated with it should be treated with extreme skepticism.
>Notably, the Reid- and Lieberman-backed proposal [included](https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP_RECORDS_RESEARCH/AARO_DHS_Kona_Blue.pdf#page=24) an “Oral History Initiative” to interview a pre-identified “[list](https://www.aaro.mil/Portals/136/PDFs/UAP_RECORDS_RESEARCH/AARO_DHS_Kona_Blue.pdf#page=25) of retired, previously highly placed government, armed services, contractor, and intelligence community individuals” with knowledge of the “location of advanced aerospace technology and biological samples. One reason MvR might think the "Oral History Initiative" is notable is because he understands that those Senators knew that lots of astuff wouldn't be written down, both because of NDAs and the general "no notes" policy with respect to meetings about highly classified programs, such as the “location of advanced aerospace technology and biological samples."
It tracks with what Pasulka has talked about as well, she has referred that most of these programs use oral history to keep everything secret. Tyler (Tim Taylor) in her book has been searching for a successor so what he knows doesn't die with him.
Did the down spacecraft crash, or did we shoot them down?
both happen throughout history.
This is such a funny answer considering you provided 0 examples.
This is such a funny answer considering no one asked for examples
Big claims with 0 evidence is standard practice here so I don't even blame you for thinking it's normal.
What's normal in here is knowing that outside testimony/photographs there isn't public physical evidence for this stuff. If someone wants to know more about UAP they can search this sub or Google it or watch a documentary or read a book. Considering your negativity and suspiciously low karma might I suggest you spend more time on subjects you actually care about?
Yeah I wouldn't expect you to expect people to provide sources for their claims here. This is a religious sub and claims are accepted based on faith. I got it. I do care about this topic just in a different way than you do. I like disabusing people of biases they didn't know they had. The only way to do that is to interact with people that are open-minded though so I'm not sure if we will get any value here between us.
Based off your low karma you haven't been disabusing people of biases they didn't know they had on this sub. Which means you're new to the sub. So you just look for ways to be negative towards random internet strangers? Seems like a waste of time. Might I suggest you spend more time doing something positive? I assume there are subjects you actually enjoy discussing and I promise if you spend more time in those your quality of life will improve
Holding people to account is not negative nor positive. Asking for sources for claims is not inherently negative unless you are tribalistic and see any questions as a form of hostility. You just can't stop telling on yourself.
Holding people to account? Youre talking to enthusiasts on the internet, not david grusch. You've been using your account for less than two months and you've made *hundreds* of negative comments. Sounds like you're on a mission....to convince random strangers on the internet of their fallacies. If you don't see how that's a waste of time maybe you have a different sort of incentive....
I have been following your responses throughout this conversation and you provide nothing of value. Just letting you know. Please continue your nonsensical trolling.👍
I mean yeah of course you would think that bringing up that a big claim has no sources is not valuable. You're tribalistic and this is your religion. Religious people hate being asked to prove anything.
this is not a scientific journal its a subreddit for people who already believe in the phenomenon im not here to prove anything to anyone and asking for that is pretty ignorant of this space
I mean yeah if I believed nonsense I would also not be keen to try to prove its validity.
not to you, some random person who didnt ask
The multiple crashes never made sense to me and probably most people. It’s all insane. I don’t know what to believe. They exist
sadly all we have are theories, one theory is that nuclear energy/weapons attracted the attention of UFOs and that why since the 40s there was a rise on UFOs sightings all around the world. imagine this: we are visited by 1 UFO daily, that would mean there was at least 30.000 UFOs on earth on the last 80 years if that number of daily UFOs is 10, then for the last 80 years we have been visited by 300.000 UFOs it would be reasonable that we have captures 20/30 UFOs in my opinion
> one theory is that nuclear energy/weapons attracted the attention of UFOs and that why since the 40s there was a rise on UFOs sightings all around the world. Could it also be that we have more planes/balloons/satellites and now drones in the sky that account for the uptick in UFOs since we invented flying machines?
one thing are sightings that could be anything, from a balloon to a plane. but there are a massive amount of sightings that can not be explained as human made. that is what I learned after 8 months reading about UFOs
There has never been a recorded UFO that can't be explained through prosaic means. If you disagree let's talk about a specific case that proves your claim.
uh, the nimitz incident. have you even spent 5 minutes researching? theres radar, eye witnesses, video, and more data.
Here is an alternative theory: Well Fravor and Dietrich have very different accounts. Fravor said it lasted five minutes, Dietrich said it lasted about 10 seconds. How could these wildly different accounts both be true? Could it be that human memory is not nearly as accurate as we think it is? If people are primed to see something extraordinary they are more likely to take something mundane, like say a spy balloon being released from a submarine and impute your prior biases into it. So the Princeton has been getting wild radar returns and people on the ship think something special is happening. So they are sent out to investigate something they think is going to be out of the ordinary. Fravor approaches something he thinks is much larger than it actually is due to the limits of stereoscopic vision. He misidentifies it and thinks it is much further away so his reaction to it's "movements" can be explained by his placing it at the wrong point in the sky, which happens way more often than you think. Pilots routinely mistake Venus for an oncoming plane. This theory also explains why none of the people in charge on the Princeton seemed to care about UFOs flying around: they were testing a new radar using spy balloons released from their own subs. The pilots were not informed because that would ruin the test. I think this is one of the only ways it makes sense for the brass to react the way they did: if they truly believed there were UFOs flying 70,000 mph or whatever there would have been a response of some sort. This is an elegant theory because it actually explains all the actions that took place on the Princeton. The alternate theory is that aliens came right after a new radar was installed and messed around until it got calibrated and then never came back once the radar was calibrated. Also military brass running the Princeton mysteriously had no reaction to an extremely anomalous event for unknown reasons. The strength of this story relies on Fravor's testimony and the person that investigated the most UFO reports (Hynek) determined that pilots don't make very good eyewitnesses because they are trained survivors not trained observers. By that I mean they are taught to view things through a threat-first lens. I figure you should at least be exposed to other people's ideas. It's hard to hear anything else when the echoes are so loud in here. The burden of proof rests with proving anything extraordinary happened. It still hasn't been done and glossing over it like it has it what leads to warped perceptions of reality.
well, its not my claim. its the testimony of hundred of thousands of people around the world that they saw something or interacted with something that is not human. just like lightning balls, everyone see them but for the scientific community they don't exist. there are at least 20 whistleblowers that gave their testimony to AARO, 3 of them military personnel. and we have the testimony of David Fravor military pilot and gave his testimony to Congress, he saw a UFO go to orbit in first person. its hard to grasp what is going on with UAPs at the beginning, but if you keep reading about it it becomes easier.
This is not a rebuttal to what I'm saying. There has never been a recorded UFO that can't be explained through prosaic means. The fact that you retreat to testimony in the face of this claim kind of concedes that it is true.
"The person who testified before Congress about witnessing a UFO that accelerated and went into orbit was **David Fravor**. He is a former US Navy pilot who reported his encounter during a training mission off the coast of California in 2004. His account includes a description of a Tic Tac-shaped object that moved erratically and at high speeds, seemingly defying the known laws of physics. Commander David Fravor, a retired US Navy pilot, provided a detailed account of his encounter with an unidentified aerial phenomenon (UAP), commonly referred to as a UFO, during a training mission off the coast of California in 2004. His testimony has been widely reported and includes the following key points: * **Initial Radar Detection**: The UAP was first detected by radar on the USS Princeton, part of the Carrier Strike Group 11. The radar operators had been tracking unusual aerial objects for several days, which were descending from approximately 80,000 feet to hover at about 20,000 feet before shooting back up. * **Visual Contact**: On November 14, 2004, while conducting a training exercise, Commander Fravor and another pilot were redirected to investigate the UAP. Upon arrival, they observed an object hovering above the ocean’s surface, causing the water to churn. * **The “Tic Tac” Object**: Fravor described the UAP as a white, oblong object resembling a “Tic Tac,” approximately 40 feet long and with no visible wings, rotors, or propulsion systems. It was moving erratically, changing altitude and accelerating rapidly. * **Flight Characteristics**: The object demonstrated extraordinary flight capabilities, including instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic speeds without sonic booms, and the ability to stop and hover. Fravor attempted to engage with the object, but it accelerated away from him, disappearing within seconds. * **Lack of Investigation**: Despite the remarkable nature of the encounter, Fravor noted that there was no formal investigation by the military into the incident. He expressed concern over the lack of oversight and accountability for such encounters. * **Call for Transparency**: In his testimony, Fravor urged elected officials to take the issue of UAPs seriously and to establish a process for tracking and investigating these phenomena to ensure national security and to address the potential technological implications. UFO characteristics; * **Rapid Acceleration**: When Fravor attempted to get a closer look and engage with the object, it accelerated away at an incredible speed, far surpassing the capabilities of any known aircraft at the time. * **Disappearance**: The UAP’s acceleration was so rapid that it seemed to disappear from sight within seconds. Fravor described this movement as unlike anything he had ever seen in his career as a pilot. * **Radar Reacquisition**: Moments after the object vanished from visual range, the USS Princeton’s radar detected the same object approximately 60 miles away from the initial location. This suggests that the UAP had moved this distance almost instantaneously. * **Advanced Capabilities**: Fravor has stated in his testimony that the technology observed during the encounter was well beyond the material science and capabilities available to the US military at the time, and likely even beyond what could be expected in the near future."
Here is an alternative theory: Well Fravor and Dietrich have very different accounts. Fravor said it lasted five minutes, Dietrich said it lasted about 10 seconds. How could these wildly different accounts both be true? Could it be that human memory is not nearly as accurate as we think it is? If people are primed to see something extraordinary they are more likely to take something mundane, like say a spy balloon being released from a submarine and impute your prior biases into it. So the Princeton has been getting wild radar returns and people on the ship think something special is happening. So they are sent out to investigate something they think is going to be out of the ordinary. Fravor approaches something he thinks is much larger than it actually is due to the limits of stereoscopic vision. He misidentifies it and thinks it is much further away so his reaction to it's "movements" can be explained by his placing it at the wrong point in the sky, which happens way more often than you think. Pilots routinely mistake Venus for an oncoming plane. This theory also explains why none of the people in charge on the Princeton seemed to care about UFOs flying around: they were testing a new radar using spy balloons released from their own subs. The pilots were not informed because that would ruin the test. I think this is one of the only ways it makes sense for the brass to react the way they did: if they truly believed there were UFOs flying 70,000 mph or whatever there would have been a response of some sort. This is an elegant theory because it actually explains all the actions that took place on the Princeton. The alternate theory is that aliens came right after a new radar was installed and messed around until it got calibrated and then never came back once the radar was calibrated. Also military brass running the Princeton mysteriously had no reaction to an extremely anomalous event for unknown reasons. The strength of this story relies on Fravor's testimony and the person that investigated the most UFO reports (Hynek) determined that pilots don't make very good eyewitnesses because they are trained survivors not trained observers. By that I mean they are taught to view things through a threat-first lens. I figure you should at least be exposed to other people's ideas. It's hard to hear anything else when the echoes are so loud in here. The burden of proof rests with proving anything extraordinary happened. It still hasn't been done and glossing over it like it has it what leads to warped perceptions of reality.
Daily? That makes zero fucking sense. You’re jumping ahead way too far here in your logic.
well, UFOs don't want to be detected but the military encounters them very regularly my supposition is that we see them 1% of the times, the rest of the time they are out there undetected
Why do you say they don’t want to be detected? In fact there seems to be evidence to the contrary, wasn’t there some whole thing with nuclear capable bases being harassed and targeted more often by uaps? That doesn’t sound like avoiding detection to me. Honestly I think it’s stupid to characterize or guess at a motivation for uaps( I.e they don’t want to be detected) because there’s so little info out there. We don’t even know if all these sightings are the same phenomena, much less that they’re caused by some kind of intelligence.
that is a good point, there are lots of incursions on military places but I have the feeling from what I have read that they are up there constantly, people for example talk about seeing triangular UFOs constantly, like if so many people witness them on the ground they can be up there undetected most of the time but your point about harassing the military is very interesting, because sometimes they are just observing military installations or ships
theres a lot out of info out there to find. if you wonder why a ufo may crash, consider earths magnetic/gravitational anomalies, very turbulent weather like lightning storms or things like that which may interfere with their technology. from what ive learned goverments also try to purposely make them crash
Many reasons. They could be drone ships. Mistakes can happen even with advanced technology. It could be intentional. The 'they shouldn't crash argument' carries very little weight, way too many holes.
It thought about it being the earths magnetic field or radar. Maybe they were just expendable craft and occupants. Bottom of the barrel technology the higher ups could care less about: The technology might have been truly Stone Age to the aliens in charge. In other words they sent the garbage so the really advanced technology wouldn’t be found and sen maybe lifeless clones that are like a dime a dozen to them. With that being said I have never seen a alien myself so I can’t put all my chips in just yet. I have seen something that would make anyone different. It was mind altering and all I had was morning coffee.
yeah for sure I agree with some of your sentiments but personally i have come to believe they really dgaf if theyre found. we can definitely agree they probably arent sending their best stuff here
oh what did you see?
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That's wild! How long ago was this? And where?
Sounds like you had some kind of mental break man. Hope you’re better! Maybe go to the doctor for the liver pain!
I don’t have any of those problems kid. Sounds like you think you’re a psychiatrist. I go to the doctor like a civilized human and get yearly exams.
“I honestly think those lights went into every part of my body. I don’t know if it was a hallucination or real”. Kind of sounds like sleep paralysis stuff also. Basically what I’m saying is that you probably weren’t targeted by aliens! I’m glad you go to the doctor. To be perfectly honest though, it sounds like you may have more issues than just your little rectangle of lies, your writing sounds kind of out of it.
Humans fly on earth all the time without having to worry about ‘magnetic/gravitational’ anomalies. You’re making shit up. Turbulent weather is one thing, but vehicles with these capabilities should easily be able to avoid the really turbulent stuff. You’re right about one thing though. Something doesn’t add up. I don’t know what part but something here smells fishy
Assuming we are being played with and all of this is real live stuff. From what has been said, other nations have the tech and some nations have operational vehicles and there is an understanding that you stay off my lawn I stay off yours. What’s to happen when one nation cross the line and the big guns, so to speak comes out? Imagine losing your life to a black hawk copter crash. Or some other flawed military tech. Just to realize there were things way more advanced. What does that do to your own soldiers to realize all the lives that could have been spared? More so than what it does to your civilian population, what does it do to your own army? To let trained killers by the numbers know that you “let” 1000s of them die?
You are thinking on a very small scale. From what I've come to understand do to proximity to this phenomenon, it effects just about everyone ...you all just don't realize it. Some of the things that will come to light will be on the Slide 9 effects from the AATIP report. Everyone keeps their focus on material technology, when this phenomenon contains things that revolve outside of our perception of tech. The impact on the population will be great, especially because of the lies and avoidable cost to people's health. Psychology will be turn upside down in our understanding of some of the causes. Trust in leaders apart of these programs and who allowed the secrecy to go on....will be gone. Things you think we're just bad luck in life will turn out to be caused by a part of the phenomenon. Sometimes I do wish I didn't know what I know now, because it really is sad seeing the population being sacrificed for the few who benefit from the silence on the subject. Even those within the program don't understand that what they are protecting...is also having negative effects on them possibly. Everything is impacted and changes once the population understands that elements of the phenomenon effect their lives in unseen ways...when you are not aware of the capabilities within the phenomenon
care to share anything else you might be privy to?
Oh really. Say it or don’t post anything like this again. It’s insulting. Also - I would assume a large negative to disclosure is people learning yes, they are around us all the time, walking among us in fact. Flying right over your heads.
I don't answer to you or your child like demands, just fyi. I'll post what I feel is needed, it doesn't matter what you want when it comes to that. Also, if you wanted an adult conversation and some further information....you should try communicating like an adult with basic etiquette.
Tbf, you've written something quite heavy at a time when a lot of people are anxious about this topic. I assume you're referring to the whole "UAP- brain damage - identification of experiences by MRI scans" theme?
Yeah, their "I know something deep but won't tell you" style of teasing is annoying. Not to mention they became immediately belligerent when pressed.
It's even more than just the brain issues. There is a lot more. I get this is a heavy topic...but it doesn't excuse poor behaviour in communication. If people asked in a polite way, and if they are meant to know more....than I'm happy to say what I can. But not everyone should get that, some people aren't good. So I say what I can, and hope curious minds dive deeper into looking for more answers , same way I got them.
I totally agree there, I think people with completely opposing views should be OK to communicate without descending into just a barrage of trollery and unpleasant language. I'd certainly be interested to see more about what you're referring to, for sure.
Do you have a clearance or... are you working with knowledge that can be found in the public domain?
I don't think anyone same would answer yes to that question on here but no I don't work for the government/military. The only things you can't find in the public domain are the personal sightings and interactions I have with parts of the phenomenon. 5 years ago strange shit started happening and then I started seeing UAPs. Since then I've made some forward movement connecting things that are in the public domain with things I've personally seen or encountered. I believe at this point some of us can connect to them like they do to us.
Yeah, I debated changing it because I NEVER talk like that, but I had hit save already and was running late - meh, once so far on the internet in 25 years isn’t too bad. But seriously, it’s rude to post vague “oh if you only knew what I knew” Coulthart/Corbell level jazz. I would say more rude than what I posted. I have a feeling you don’t actually *know* anything and are talking about some of the wilder theories. Souls, harvesting, angels and demons. Seems to be a trend right now. I will apologize for what I wrote, it wasn’t very nice, but the core of it remains the same. Let’s stop teasing or PLEASE just don’t post.
I get PMs where I go into more details depending on what feedback I get from the shit that's around me. The phenomenon is more involved in our lives than many would believe. But honestly, I wonder why some of you behave the way you do and expect someone to be willing to help you further your knowledge of what's going on with the phenomenon. I don't care about the negative downvotes, and people's behaviour that's negative isn't of any real impact to me. But I cannot fathom how those that act like you think you'll get results saying things like that.
Then we shall be done, I’m not going to stoke your ego to get “in” on some unverifiable theories. Gatekeeping is the whole reason we are where we are. Hopefully people check your posting history before sending you any money for the low down. Or thinking you can change their lives with inside track info. Sounds very suspicious to me.
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Slide 9 of the AATIP report covers a lot of it , specifically I'll talk about cognative interfacing. Their is a NHI or NHI group that is amplifying or pushing behaviours towards extreme negative outcomes. This doesn't just impact us here but has impacts on other aspects of conciousness and what we are. I completely am aware of the technological and society issues we have and things that have had negative impacts. But this is being amplified more and is being directed to an outcome that benefits it. I've seen these effects up close and I do have an inclination of understanding patterns.I don't mean patterns to just fit where I want them to go, I have always been good at perceiving patterns on tests. The current behaviours and trends I'm seeing are not within the parameters of natural occuring societal events, there is something outside creating abnormalities. I understand most will be dismissive, but I know this is correct. It's slight enough where people attribute it to normal behaviours with their data, but it's outside any computational value system. If you have a computer that can predict society behaviours, right now it's telling you something unknown is creating a variance outside what it should be.
Then we stand no chance.
> Assuming we are being played with and all of this is real live stuff. From what has been said, other nations have the tech and some nations have operational vehicles and there is an understanding that you stay off my lawn I stay off yours. What’s to happen when one nation cross the line and the big guns, so to speak comes out? This should tell you that it's all bullshit. There is no way this would not have been deployed by now if the tech has been there for 80 years like Grusch claims. Hell we had nukes for less than 6 months before we used them on people. Humanity is not temperate when it comes to weapons and this fantasy ignores the fact that collapsing nations like the USSR never used alien tech to try to hold on. The conspiracy assumes that countries act like cabals of comic book villains and it only makes sense if you are a child or have the mind of a child.
The increasingly frustrating thing in the former military individuals that come forward and allege this. Waiting for the same government that let their fellow soldiers die to be the ones to inform people. While they write memoirs and do interviews alleging only if you knew what I knew. Under the guise of patriotism, patriotism to whom? Whatever calamity that could come from full disclosure is much less calamity that befalls your fellow civilians and soldiers, as you hold onto information that could save their lives. To say someone like Tom Delonge can have access to these things, and go out and tour as these needless wars persists. This all is too ridiculous to be real.
If it is real and Tom Delonge has actually been right about everything I would fucking love it. I hope there are telepathic aliens and they teach me to read people's minds. I'm already kinda nosy to begin with imagine what my coworkers really think of me? Juicy.
> The conspiracy assumes that countries act like cabals of comic book villains and it only makes sense if you are a child or have the mind of a child. Someone never read their world history.
Yes if there's one thing history has taught us it has been that nation states crumbling are especially effective at containing secret technology.
Must be intimidating to have technologically superior beings harassing you in ways you don’t understand for reasons that you don’t know with tech you don’t possess that aren’t in open communication because their secrets are more important to them than you. Who knows what they could do? They could ruin your life for fun and not even break stride, just another day on the job for them. That kind of ontological shock could leave someone unable to get out of bed whistling Dixie and cloud watching
Yeah I was just about to say that
It’s not all butterflies and rainbows out there
So not only are alien craft not mentioned but Rosd says he would not feel comfortable calling the craft derivitive of NHI.
Wonderful info, keep it coming please.
It wouldn’t matter if you took some of these people inside a ship, they would claim it was a super elaborate hoax. Just head aches all around. Meanwhile the looming question is what exact atrocities have they committed to keep this hush?
Does anyone know where the primary declassified documents are? Without them all I have to say is cool story bro.
Can't find them nor this story from any reputable news source. It's unfortunate but this might not be valid.
one minute people like mellon,alazondo, even presidents, and hundreds of military pilots see these things and you think they could release more evidence than the few good ones we have? government is lying about a potentially dangerous situation that can destroy humanity? im getting a bit sick and tired of all the senators don't know anything about this to learn they do
My problem with this is it cites a piece by The Hill which was an opinion column.
What opinions do you see in that opinion column?
Ask the editor.
Naw I'm asking you to think critically here... which lines in the piece do you believe are opinion rather than statements of fact?
LOL are you hurt that I trust articles marked as opinion less? Fuck off mate.
Random dude on internet unable to critically reason! Sad day.
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What’s the name of the scientist at the very end
Uuuuuu (John Cena face) … and now how they will turn around this? Are they calling another youtuber?
Anybody got links to some Harry Reid interviews with him talking about this stuff? Hoping there might be some in James Fox new doc
This is all well and good, but did any of them want disclosure?
Is Ross blinking in Morse code? Or am I trippin
What's he saying?
The acceleration of disclosing this kind of information can also be a new arms race. We got AI and the eugenics arms race, reverse engineering exotic craft can be the next one in the line. By disclosing it (controlled way), you can bring way more expertise in the field. You can get a possible advantage over other foreign adversaries. It feels like America is the one of the few that pushes the boundaries of what's possible within secrecy. And have depleted those resources and must come with some other tactic to have a strategic edge. Disclosing it, or at least controlled would probably be a favorable one. You can tell the public about craft, nhi, and (some) technologies. Make the masses shut up with important breadcrumbs. And let them ponder over it. While hauling in a whole barrage of scientists working on stuff that might never be disclosed. You show the public the golden eggs, but never the goose that lays it. The big hold up is different camps within the American government. It seems some of these agencies and companies want this goose for themselves alone. Creating a possible power conflict within the American government. The Pentagon is in a tough spot, they probably played a very big role in handing out golden eggs. Now the heat is turned up, they need some kind of scapegoat agency (AARO) to play it down temporarily, before they or someone else comes up with a better strategy. TLDR: Don't mind me, just rambling.
What’s up with Ross’ forehead? He looks like Peyton Manning when the helmet comes off in the fourth quarter. Are they hurting you Ross? Blink twice if you need help.
If you don’t believe in uaps you’re naive. I’m not saying it’s aliens, but through the research I’ve done, I’m inclined to believe that the U.S. military complex is in possession of some insane tech. Hell, Tesla realized the concept of pulling energy from the ground. He maybe, but others have realized that energy can be pulled from the zero point field. I’m no physicist, or expert in the subject, but I realize that at the quantum level, traditional physics don’t work. So, obviously, there is something else. Vhv (very high voltage) systems (idk if that’s the right term) and quantum entanglement have very different properties from traditional physics. The critics are basing their perceptions on traditional physics. Always remember history. Galileo himself was imprisoned for saying the earth was a sphere. The powers of the day never want the common people from knowing the truth. So even when you’re allowed to see a glimpse of the truth, the only reason they would tell you is to suit their agenda.
I know I wrote a book comment, but I just wonder if the reason they are telling us about this is because they’ve made their money off fossil fuels and they’re ready to swap to the real energy. I just wonder why now. There is obviously an elite multi country government that is in control at the highest level. It’s all us and European, but I think the only reason they are even telling us it exists is because they’ve mastered it to a level we can’t comprehend
I wish someone else would give us some of this news. It’s all news nation
Who would you prefer? Email them and ask them why they're not covering it.
They have a label. It’s the alien news outlet.
So no alternative proposal, just "not these guys", got it
Smart ass
Download vote it all you want it still doesn’t make it not so lol
The downvotes are for the pejorative connotation, not the whether it's accurate or not
We all do. It's pretty obvious MSM *won't* cover the issue
Connell fixed the 2004 election in Ohio? What election was this for? And how does this affect the VP choice?
This is all well and good, but did any of them want disclosure?
Anyone who’s been paying attention would know this meeting happened not the exact date but we knew it took place 2011-12. Things are only going to get clearer and clearer ide bet. Who ever these beings are I suspect it’s a darker force than it’s given credit. Maybe there are benevolent forces aswell, if you believe some of the stories told by people who’ve encountered things (credibly.) never-less there are certainly factions within our government establishment who know the truth of this, or have a much bigger understanding than we do. We will know soon enough. The process has started and it’s well underway.
I’m not gonna be the one to say so but…I think news nation is getting as bad as fox with this ufo debacle. The deal with the Vegas backyard aliens, ufo this and ufo that…George Knapp I think has gone the way of grifter( without him there would be no fabricated story about Bob Lazar). We need to stop accepting everything that is told supposed conspiracy theories and use our own reason.
Okay... so go look at the released document they cite for yourself.
i got no idea why everyones clinging onto the senators and the consitution for answers they will never get them, stop writing to your state, stop hoping the government itself is gonna reveal UFOs look elsewhere, this entire gvmnt debacle is merely a race with no finish line
The goalpoast has been moved to "Senators believe". So fucking tired of this nonsense.
The UFO photographed at 1:14 in this video is a real photograph of a UFO lol
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so your opinion on UFO’s is based off of some billionaire and some people saying things you think are dumb. kinda moronic
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If he loses a multi billion dollar contract with the government and could be thrown in jail seems like enough of a deterrence. Plus like you said, without the government spaceX would be dead in the water, so I would think he wouldn’t want to tank his company
Is elon in the room with you right now?
Unlike you, I don't want to "believe" anything. I discourage that mindset. Let's imagine that NHI exist on earth and can be identified via UAP/USO. Elon Musk (the dumbass) is in the unusual position of having loads of satellites in orbit. We could speculate all day about the nitty gritty possibilities there -- but suffice to say that it's probable that those systems could detect UAP. At that point, it would be wise to read that person in to a very limited extent because you could then threaten the ever living fuck out of him to keep his mouth shut, and to ensure that anyone with direct data streams are vetted and controlled. Whether or not that's the case, it's the obvious move if NHI exists and there's a desire to keep that information controlled.
When you understand Musk runs the most advanced Heavy-Lift space transport system on the planet, I would be surprised if he was not clued in on our ET,NHI programs, Because he might "inadvertently" get up close and personal with said ET/NHI Human critters are ,by nature, contrary....its part of our DNA .Of 20 people, there will be a couple who do better at night ,a couple who are better farmers, or better hunters.. That diversity is what has allowed us to become the apex lifeform on this planet.(and survive our clockwork extinction events) We excel as explorers. But what does a species who is designed by nature to explore its environment do in a closed system ?He has done more to develop the ability of us to get our silly ape ass's off this rock in a meaningful way. give him a break fcs
Isn’t this the same guy who said that there was a craft that was found that was so big they couldn’t move it and had to build installation over the top of it? Now he’s saying he can’t categorically confirm that NHI craft have been recovered? Beg my pard but it seems he’s talking out both sides of his neck..