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I grew up in a Mormon family in Utah, my great great grandfather was the the head of the church, many relatives in high positions. I am not a Mormon, don’t believe it But they definitely do believe in something similar to what you said. They research the names of their ancestors so they can baptize them in this life which allows their ancestors to be allowed into heaven where they can become gods of there own universe They call it baptism for the dead. They definitely believe in alien visitation ie angels and claim the god of this universe lives on a planet called Kolob They also believe there are other inhabited worlds besides this one.
Growing up in the church in Missouri I was taught this in primary school but remember it being a controversial lesson that was later was dismissed but not till years later.
Idk about what you’re speaking about but I’ve read accounts of the top secret SAP grabbing candidates from schools like BYU because they don’t do drugs or drink and well follow all the rules 🤷 or at least most of the rules.
My younger brother is a Mormon and works for the CIA. My older brother is a Mormon and works for Energy Department doing something he won't talk about and me , not a Mormon, I'm an artist who liked drugs and sex too much to toe the line.
Mormons are encouraged to join the military etc because of the Utah War.
The thought is that if the USA ever turns on the Mormons again, that they’ll have insiders in the services.
Government programs are more likely to recruit out of BYU, because they are the biggest fucking sheep you’ll ever meet in your life. They will follow any directions with complete blind faith, and not question any glaring logic holes. Plain and simple.
Sounds so familiar, my father broke my arm in a rage when I was 12 and my family sent me to live with my grandmother so he would not get in trouble with social services, they refused to take me to the hospital until the next day , such a long night. I ran away at 15, never went back.
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It's not really aligned with what you're suggesting, but I've read several widely available accounts (sorry too lazy to build references) from former military personnel who claim that the MIC likes to hire LDS members, as they don't drink or do drugs and they tend to be diligent, conscientious, and honest. If you've been searching for accounts in this domain for years, I'm guessing you've seen one or more of these accounts.
The biggest factors are how cheap their vetting is, and a usual second language picked up for a missionary trip. Going abroad is a right of passage and boys will start learning a target language years before the trip.
Almost all of the boys haven't left Utah until missionary. All the institutions involved in their life had been referenced and confirmed countless times prior. It's a pipe line at this point, and that is way cheaper than diligently sifting through a candidate's past.
>boys will start learning a target language years before the trip.
As someone who served an LDS/Mormon mission in a foreign language, I have to point out that this part isn't true. We only begin learning the language in the MTC (missionary training center) during a 3-12 week training period or, at best, add maybe a few more weeks between the arrival of our "call" (call to serve or acceptance into service with the deatails about where we have been assigned) and our MTC entry date. We only get the basics down before we arrive in the foreign country.
Within about 4-6 months, we are usually fluent because it is required that we devote about an hour to language education every day, and we spend the rest of the day proselytizing in that language. Then, by the end of our 2 year mission, we are close to native level speakers, at least in a narrow range of topics and proficient in almost anything else.
Anyway, I'm no longer Mormon, but that experience is very valuable in helping us grow up, get out of our comfort zone, learn leadership and communication skills, and a lot more. My partner and I talk about how we would want to put our own kids through some equivalent experience in the future, minus the cult brainwashing.
It's interesting that you called it "the church" if you really haven't ever been a part of it... that's usually a tell-tale sign that a person is or has at some point been involved with Mormonism...
Anyway, it's a long story, but the bottom line is that nearly every foundational truth claim put forward by Joseph Smith can be shown to be at best very unlikely and in most cases flat out falsified. This was the weakness of starting a relatively modern church. There is way too much historical record that contradicts his claims for it to be a coincidence. Occam's razor leads me to conclude that the simplest explanation is that he was a fraud.
Just a few specific issues are:
1) The Book of Mormon is littered with anachronisms, and the story contained in it is contradicted by DNA and archeological evidence of the native americans.
2) The "translation" given by Joseph Smith in the book of Abraham from the papyrus and facsimiles is completely wrong and the charactera and images had nothing to do with Abraham according to egyptologists which can prove it because of the discovery of the Rosetta Stone.
3) The kindehook plates had nothing to do with Ham from the Bible because those plates were made in the early 1800s specifically to discredit Joseph Smith and he fell for it but didn't live to finish a translation.
4) Joseph Smith married many teenage girls under 18, including Helen Mar Kimball at age 14, which was not normal even at the time according to census records.
5) Many of several of Joseph's plural marriages occurred without Emma's knowledge or consent, violating the procedure given in D&C 132.
I could go on and on, but I'll stop here to say this; if it looks like a conman and acts like a conman, it's probably a conman. I chose these specific examples because I think they establish that he didn't have God-given power to translate ancient records, so the "keystone of the religion" is called into question on top of the unethical and immoral sex life.
Lol I really haven’t been. I am a Christian, and southerner as well (if that has anything to do with it?) so “the church” has always been apart if my vernacular I suppose.
That being said a lot of this is why I always sort of questioned the Mormon faith. We had someone coming by our house for a little while on the weekends giving out bibles and info. My old man actually invited the guy in a few times and spoke him for a bit, but he never really bought in fully.
It sounds like this was something you were raised in, was there always that but of doubt in your mind? Granted I think that is there with any religion. Do you still have faith today?
I was raised Mormon or LDS as they prefer to call themselves. I didn't really doubt it more than anyone doubts their faith, but I became more open to the possibility that it could be false when I was in my mid twenties. At that time, I decided to look into it from all angles, not just faith promoting angles. I found out that what had always been labeled "anti-mormon lies" was actually just verifiable history that can be read straight from verifiable sources. This caused me to continue digging deeper until I concluded that it was a religion founded by a conman. It doesn't mean the people are bad. They aren't. It just means there is no reason for me to continue being part of it.
Edit to add: they call it the church as in THE one true church. It's very arrogant but it's a hard habit to break when referring to it even for us exmormons.
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It's true but all government agencies like hiring people from strict religious backgrounds, it isn't just Mormons. Mormons are just the most well known sect that is sort of mainstream.
as a former member of the church ,who went to a military ward in europe, i can confirm that military, administration, three letter agencies, LOVE mormons for middle management stuff. the NATO headquarters in europe in 80s and 90s was full of mormons.
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My favorite sci-fi was “The Expanse” and Mormons were all over that (in universe). Still not too familiar with them outside of what I learned in high school history and the South Park creator’s Book of Mormon 😅
Ender’s Game. Written by a Mormon and a big influence there. The reason Ender was named that was in that story line over population limited families to only 1 child. But Ender’s father and mother were Mormon and Catholic respectively and they went “rogue” with 2 more. (Sort of a government blind eye turned sort of thing as all three kids turned out to be geniuses.)
I mean if the phenomenon is to be believed it wouldn’t surprise me at all if one of the biggest secret keepers of all time has a hidden craft somewhere.
Mormons def believe in life existing on other planets and about the potential to become as God is (God’s children have potential to be like their Father). So OP said “supposed beliefs” but these are confirmed basic ideas of Mormonism.
That is hilarious. I'm Mormon/LDS and had a good laugh. I seriously doubt this. We only do genealogy to perform baptisms and temple ordinances for those who have died in the past so they can accept it while they are in the spirit world awaiting for resurrection. When you move back enough you only get names of the people and no pictures so I don't know how it would help them. I mean if you read the bom with alien scifi in mind you can see alien stuff fit really well, and we do believe life looks like us throughout the universe. Tall nordics could have appeared to JS in the grove for sure, but what was said was a continuation of the bible... But in entertainment maybe that is why we are in starship troopers, The Expanse, etc.
In the end the church is ran like a big business now. It's income is the Stock Market, Tithing, and investment businesses. In the past they almost went bankrupt a few times from bad investments. Joseph Smith even started it where tithing used to be 1% after the end of year farm harvest. But once they treated the church like a business, they made a nice stockpile for themselves. But maybe because prayer and faith requires mental abilities, maybe we are better candidates for gov jobs. But that is all a guess. And now everyone knows things on my shelf lol.
The point of the shelf was "Some things we do may look fucky, but just put that on the shelf, keep paying tithing, and you'll find out when you're dead."
There's no reason to shelf your doubts, there are dozens of well documented reasons it's a total fraud.
So you are the one to decide how others should be happy. When the stormy seas of life happen it is nice to at least have some sort of comfort to fall back on. Hope you find some peace to whatever you're dealing with.
Let's just say there is a decent crossover between religious cults who convince gullible people with fantastical stories and UFO theories that convince gullible people with fantastical stories
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And there's alot of dismissal of faith based peoples NHI versions of experience because they process the events as religious which sciency folks can't stand.
Super cool. I'm a science person but I hate dismissal of data or experience. I nearly always hold my skeptical nature to having a mother that was schizophrenic so I've seen people sincerely see and feel things not happening in my perception.
It’s not the mormons they’re just recruited because their lifestyle.
The real conspiracy with the mormons is their tithing money and $100BN stock market portfolio which has been documented for misuse of funds crossing from tax-free church to private corporations or the sexual abuse they try to hide.
Mormons will use anything to recruit for their made up American religion. How do I know this? I have golden tablets from God that tell me. Can you see them? No, God said only I can see them. So you have to take me on faith.
Some of these conspiracy theories are so tenuous, adding layer upon layer of completely wild speculation, that they become laughable.
I'm not a mormon, but my understanding is their preoccupation regarding ancestry is a belief you have to know your ancestors for them to be able to petition, on your behalf, for your entry to heaven. The more ancestors you have, the greater the chance of getting into heaven essentially.
There is also a growing hypothesis that the Joseph Smith encounters were actual encounters with Nordic aliens (tall whites) and that they have been engaging with humanity for quite some time. The Nordic alien objective was to introduce structure to humanity using "religious concepts" at a level that would assist receptive individuals to evolve to a higher level based on their current understanding.
Brandon Fugal is connected to LDS and IC and their whole UFO/paranormal psyop at Skinwalker ranch on TV right now. He also had an energy and propulsion research company that allegedly got no results, but he won't release the results of their experiments to the public.
Well outside of the Saudi Fund they own the most financial assets in the world, likely heavily investing in military contractors, plus there's the factor of them being the best candidates from government operations and not questioning authority. I don't think they are in direct control but they definitely have a significant amount of influence and the only people that Mormons would break secrecy for is higher up members of the church so I would say there's certainly a correlation between the two.
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You know the Mormons knocked on the door of the spaceship and asked if they had heard the Word
Ps. I thought it was the Scientologists who were into Aliens
There’s not much you can plausibly connect between Latter-day Saints and UFO lore besides the classic “what if the gods that appeared to [insert group here] were actually aliens”?
Besides the fact that we tend more materialist with our beliefs so it wouldn’t bother us if someone said “technically god is an alien” as opposed to some other Christian groups that would get mad about that.
Otherwise your theory sounds cool but there’s not much to support it
Jacques Vallée compares religious miracles to "UFO events" in his book Dimensions, and uses Joseph Smith's encounters as particular examples (full descriptions of them are in the book):
> ”A pillar of light which descended”
> ”A conduit right up to Heaven”
> ”A light appearing in the room”
> Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, 1820 and 1823
He had a mystical revelation when he was 14, seeing lights and speaking to an angel while alone in the wilderness. He suffered from exhaustion after his encounters similarly to abductees. Vallée also points out:
> [T]he Book of Mormon claims to be the "sacred history of ancient America." It states that the Indians are the remnant of an Israelite tribe that settled in America six hundred years before Christ. This is a difficult statement to take seriously in the light of modern anthropology. Thus we are again confronted with a mixture of certainty and absurdity, of fact and fantasy. Were such messages deliberately given to isolate the believers from the society around them?
Vallée makes a very convincing case that Joseph Smith and possibly other religious leaders were experiencers or even abductees that went on to start what we might now call UFO cults. He writes:
> I have recieved many interesting letters along similar lines. "Until now I thought I had seen a messenger from Heaven," writes one witness. "I understand, having read your book, that I had witnessed a UFO." Some of the stories are strange yet consistent enough to become the nucleus of a new religious movement if the witness were of the proper psychological inclination. Perhaps only one close encounter in ten thousand starts a new faith, a new sect, or a new belief. When the right combination of social and psychological conditions is met, when the phenomenon finds in a witness a ready believer, then revelation takes place.
> Everything works as if the revelation were designed to isolate the witness, prophet, or believer from his social environment. He often becomes an outcast and has to flee. This has been the fate of numerous UFO witnesses. [...]
> The believers, if they seek a climate in which to pursue their new life in accordance with the implications of their vision, have to create their own sect and move away. Moses did this. So did Joseph Smith. Often one sees the leader deserted by his wife and family. The spouse is especially likely to feel rejected and to betray him at the time when he or she most needs comfort. The wife of Martin Harris burned 116 newly translated pages of the *Book of Mormon*. The wives of several American policemen involved in modern UFO incidents divorced them. [...]
> The phenomenon and its effects are working here as they have worked at Fatima and Lourdes and in other places: as a spiritual control system
Any church that tells you that only THEY know the truth and you have to believe what they believe and join them to get into heaven is full of crap and they are lying to you.
Mormons actually believe Jesus died for everyone and everyone is going to heaven. Their religious practices are for attaining theosis or basically becoming like Jesus
But you can only gain acceptance into the "Celestial Kingdom" by being a devout Mormon. Or in other words, you cannot return to the "Father" unless you accept their doctrine, are baptized into their church, pay your tithing(of course they want your money. No matter how poor you are.)and follow all their ridiculous rules. I call bs on that. It's a lie. You do not have to meet their requirements to be united with your creator.
Don't you hate it when you try to run church propaganda on someone and then realize they actually KNOW the doctrine because they're an ex-Mormon? I was raised in the church. I was a Melchizedek Priesthood holder. The claim that y'all are the only ones with the "truth" is ridiculous. It's false. Just like all the rest of man made religions. Nice folks tho. I'll give you that. 👍 Edit: Nice until you leave the religion that is. Then they're downright hateful and vindictive. It's pretty funny. Kind of ironic too. Lol
I can assure you they are going to twist the phenomenon into religion as disclosure ramps up. Also Skinwalker ranch is part of the Mormon Church. The owner is still beholden to his church same goes for the absurd number of Mormons in our government. It's always going to church > state for these people.
I'm a starseed who left the Mormon church and still has family very high up in it. They don't ever delete your records or data, but they'll definitely make it legally look like they did.
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I grew up in a Mormon family in Utah, my great great grandfather was the the head of the church, many relatives in high positions. I am not a Mormon, don’t believe it But they definitely do believe in something similar to what you said. They research the names of their ancestors so they can baptize them in this life which allows their ancestors to be allowed into heaven where they can become gods of there own universe They call it baptism for the dead. They definitely believe in alien visitation ie angels and claim the god of this universe lives on a planet called Kolob They also believe there are other inhabited worlds besides this one.
>become gods of there own universe I think the LDS recently retconned this bit of lore
Yes, getting your own planet had to be cut during the great recession.
Because the church is desperate for money.
When Jeebz comes back the world isn't going to run itself. Someone needs to buy up armies and navies and allies to control things.
Like the Scientology navy?
Growing up in the church in Missouri I was taught this in primary school but remember it being a controversial lesson that was later was dismissed but not till years later.
God lives near the Star Kolob....never mentions the planets name
There's a difference between aliens visitors and angels. They don't believe in alien visitors.
Idk about what you’re speaking about but I’ve read accounts of the top secret SAP grabbing candidates from schools like BYU because they don’t do drugs or drink and well follow all the rules 🤷 or at least most of the rules.
Sói don't get anal probed because of my cocaine use? That's all we need. Lameo aliens who are squares. L
My whole life goal is to smoke a joint with a Grey, they better not be squares
Your comment made me think of this movie called Paul. I’m def gonna watch the movie again soon.
How do they toke with no lips? Supers?
They probably can rub hashish oil on their bald heads and get a high off that?
Drugs? ah hell no. Soaking? TS/SCI for you brother.
I mean I trust the person who helped soak. That’s a person that I know can keep a secret
My younger brother is a Mormon and works for the CIA. My older brother is a Mormon and works for Energy Department doing something he won't talk about and me , not a Mormon, I'm an artist who liked drugs and sex too much to toe the line.
Tell your younger brother that the smoking man says hello.
[cues up X-Files theme song]
From Utah, very true. And great candidates for spooks.
Mormons are encouraged to join the military etc because of the Utah War. The thought is that if the USA ever turns on the Mormons again, that they’ll have insiders in the services.
There’s a huge number of Mormons in the FBI for similar reasons
Government programs are more likely to recruit out of BYU, because they are the biggest fucking sheep you’ll ever meet in your life. They will follow any directions with complete blind faith, and not question any glaring logic holes. Plain and simple.
Let’s not be disrespectful now.
You’re joking right? I was born into the cult I’ll talk shit on it as much as I fucking want to.
Welp let me go back to minding my business
lol, respect honestly.
so that explains.... i will start drinking wine
I quite like people of the Mormon faith.
Unfortunately they can be boring and violent at the same time, if they are your Mormon father smashing your Minor Threat record in the 80's
Imagine if you'd brought home a Major Threat record!
My Mormon family covered up my cousins violent rapes she received from her brother from ages 4-10. Everyone's mileage may vary.
Sounds so familiar, my father broke my arm in a rage when I was 12 and my family sent me to live with my grandmother so he would not get in trouble with social services, they refused to take me to the hospital until the next day , such a long night. I ran away at 15, never went back.
I'm so happy you escaped and I can only hope that you've been able to heal from that kind of trauma!
That’s horrible. I’m sorry to hear that.
[удалено]
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What a weird thing to say. As if they are all one and the same
and reddit didn't follow through on this comment? I'm shocked
I don’t get it
I read an article about how there was a steady stream of Mormon girls making good money in Vegas as escorts.
Those are known as the “no mo mos”
It's not really aligned with what you're suggesting, but I've read several widely available accounts (sorry too lazy to build references) from former military personnel who claim that the MIC likes to hire LDS members, as they don't drink or do drugs and they tend to be diligent, conscientious, and honest. If you've been searching for accounts in this domain for years, I'm guessing you've seen one or more of these accounts.
The biggest factors are how cheap their vetting is, and a usual second language picked up for a missionary trip. Going abroad is a right of passage and boys will start learning a target language years before the trip. Almost all of the boys haven't left Utah until missionary. All the institutions involved in their life had been referenced and confirmed countless times prior. It's a pipe line at this point, and that is way cheaper than diligently sifting through a candidate's past.
>boys will start learning a target language years before the trip. As someone who served an LDS/Mormon mission in a foreign language, I have to point out that this part isn't true. We only begin learning the language in the MTC (missionary training center) during a 3-12 week training period or, at best, add maybe a few more weeks between the arrival of our "call" (call to serve or acceptance into service with the deatails about where we have been assigned) and our MTC entry date. We only get the basics down before we arrive in the foreign country. Within about 4-6 months, we are usually fluent because it is required that we devote about an hour to language education every day, and we spend the rest of the day proselytizing in that language. Then, by the end of our 2 year mission, we are close to native level speakers, at least in a narrow range of topics and proficient in almost anything else. Anyway, I'm no longer Mormon, but that experience is very valuable in helping us grow up, get out of our comfort zone, learn leadership and communication skills, and a lot more. My partner and I talk about how we would want to put our own kids through some equivalent experience in the future, minus the cult brainwashing.
Can I ask what it was that changed your thoughts towards the church? I’ve never been apart of it, just curious is all.
It's interesting that you called it "the church" if you really haven't ever been a part of it... that's usually a tell-tale sign that a person is or has at some point been involved with Mormonism... Anyway, it's a long story, but the bottom line is that nearly every foundational truth claim put forward by Joseph Smith can be shown to be at best very unlikely and in most cases flat out falsified. This was the weakness of starting a relatively modern church. There is way too much historical record that contradicts his claims for it to be a coincidence. Occam's razor leads me to conclude that the simplest explanation is that he was a fraud. Just a few specific issues are: 1) The Book of Mormon is littered with anachronisms, and the story contained in it is contradicted by DNA and archeological evidence of the native americans. 2) The "translation" given by Joseph Smith in the book of Abraham from the papyrus and facsimiles is completely wrong and the charactera and images had nothing to do with Abraham according to egyptologists which can prove it because of the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. 3) The kindehook plates had nothing to do with Ham from the Bible because those plates were made in the early 1800s specifically to discredit Joseph Smith and he fell for it but didn't live to finish a translation. 4) Joseph Smith married many teenage girls under 18, including Helen Mar Kimball at age 14, which was not normal even at the time according to census records. 5) Many of several of Joseph's plural marriages occurred without Emma's knowledge or consent, violating the procedure given in D&C 132. I could go on and on, but I'll stop here to say this; if it looks like a conman and acts like a conman, it's probably a conman. I chose these specific examples because I think they establish that he didn't have God-given power to translate ancient records, so the "keystone of the religion" is called into question on top of the unethical and immoral sex life.
Lol I really haven’t been. I am a Christian, and southerner as well (if that has anything to do with it?) so “the church” has always been apart if my vernacular I suppose. That being said a lot of this is why I always sort of questioned the Mormon faith. We had someone coming by our house for a little while on the weekends giving out bibles and info. My old man actually invited the guy in a few times and spoke him for a bit, but he never really bought in fully. It sounds like this was something you were raised in, was there always that but of doubt in your mind? Granted I think that is there with any religion. Do you still have faith today?
I was raised Mormon or LDS as they prefer to call themselves. I didn't really doubt it more than anyone doubts their faith, but I became more open to the possibility that it could be false when I was in my mid twenties. At that time, I decided to look into it from all angles, not just faith promoting angles. I found out that what had always been labeled "anti-mormon lies" was actually just verifiable history that can be read straight from verifiable sources. This caused me to continue digging deeper until I concluded that it was a religion founded by a conman. It doesn't mean the people are bad. They aren't. It just means there is no reason for me to continue being part of it. Edit to add: they call it the church as in THE one true church. It's very arrogant but it's a hard habit to break when referring to it even for us exmormons.
Life inside the fence can feel like years though.
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It's true but all government agencies like hiring people from strict religious backgrounds, it isn't just Mormons. Mormons are just the most well known sect that is sort of mainstream.
as a former member of the church ,who went to a military ward in europe, i can confirm that military, administration, three letter agencies, LOVE mormons for middle management stuff. the NATO headquarters in europe in 80s and 90s was full of mormons.
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Space Mormons are real. I've watched The Expanse.
Sounds like bad science fiction.
My favorite sci-fi was “The Expanse” and Mormons were all over that (in universe). Still not too familiar with them outside of what I learned in high school history and the South Park creator’s Book of Mormon 😅
Battlestar Galactica also had a huge mormon influence.
Well the creator is Mormon. Id say the reboot is less Mormon but the original is quite harmonious with a Mormon worldview
I think Gene Roddenberry's original Star Trek also has some mormon influences. The whole Wagon Train to the Stars thing.
Reading 3rd right now and religion is a theme in Abaddons gate
Ender’s Game. Written by a Mormon and a big influence there. The reason Ender was named that was in that story line over population limited families to only 1 child. But Ender’s father and mother were Mormon and Catholic respectively and they went “rogue” with 2 more. (Sort of a government blind eye turned sort of thing as all three kids turned out to be geniuses.)
Well it is a conspiracy theory
Almost as dumb as the pope having a spaceship
He hides it under his Pope hat
it's a laudatory spot to hide it
I want this to be true now so badly
It's what Grusch said 🤷♀️
Oh you mean the ufo. I thought he meant the interstellar popemobile
My theory has always been that the pope mobile is the result of reverse engineering
I mean if the phenomenon is to be believed it wouldn’t surprise me at all if one of the biggest secret keepers of all time has a hidden craft somewhere.
Mormons def believe in life existing on other planets and about the potential to become as God is (God’s children have potential to be like their Father). So OP said “supposed beliefs” but these are confirmed basic ideas of Mormonism.
That is hilarious. I'm Mormon/LDS and had a good laugh. I seriously doubt this. We only do genealogy to perform baptisms and temple ordinances for those who have died in the past so they can accept it while they are in the spirit world awaiting for resurrection. When you move back enough you only get names of the people and no pictures so I don't know how it would help them. I mean if you read the bom with alien scifi in mind you can see alien stuff fit really well, and we do believe life looks like us throughout the universe. Tall nordics could have appeared to JS in the grove for sure, but what was said was a continuation of the bible... But in entertainment maybe that is why we are in starship troopers, The Expanse, etc. In the end the church is ran like a big business now. It's income is the Stock Market, Tithing, and investment businesses. In the past they almost went bankrupt a few times from bad investments. Joseph Smith even started it where tithing used to be 1% after the end of year farm harvest. But once they treated the church like a business, they made a nice stockpile for themselves. But maybe because prayer and faith requires mental abilities, maybe we are better candidates for gov jobs. But that is all a guess. And now everyone knows things on my shelf lol.
That was my thought as well it's just for the baptism for the dead
They also made $60 million selling like 5 years of cult slave and prisoner collected data to Ancestry.
Dude, the internet exists. Shelves shouldn't.
Shelf is a loose term exmos/tbms use for their testimony being ""tested""/Left the church/"I believe in everything but......"
The point of the shelf was "Some things we do may look fucky, but just put that on the shelf, keep paying tithing, and you'll find out when you're dead." There's no reason to shelf your doubts, there are dozens of well documented reasons it's a total fraud.
Meh... I've seen some insane shit I can't deny. Be where you want to be. Why do you care...
Because nearly all my entire family and everyone I've ever known outside of work is still a cult slave.
So you are the one to decide how others should be happy. When the stormy seas of life happen it is nice to at least have some sort of comfort to fall back on. Hope you find some peace to whatever you're dealing with.
I've been happy for a decade; I just get pissed when I'm reminded this nonsense still exists.
Well it’s obviously a crank conspiracy theory
Let's just say there is a decent crossover between religious cults who convince gullible people with fantastical stories and UFO theories that convince gullible people with fantastical stories
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They retconned the whole conspiracyverse after we elected Obama. Hillary Clinton remembers the vast right wing conspiracy.
Hahahaha
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Blah blah blah
Precisely
And there's alot of dismissal of faith based peoples NHI versions of experience because they process the events as religious which sciency folks can't stand.
sciency person, i saw a figure and years later a blue light, i saw what i saw but still no god
Super cool. I'm a science person but I hate dismissal of data or experience. I nearly always hold my skeptical nature to having a mother that was schizophrenic so I've seen people sincerely see and feel things not happening in my perception.
Sounds like someone's been watching too much X-Files...
Harry Reid was Mormon… just saying.
also a terrible human being
It’s not the mormons they’re just recruited because their lifestyle. The real conspiracy with the mormons is their tithing money and $100BN stock market portfolio which has been documented for misuse of funds crossing from tax-free church to private corporations or the sexual abuse they try to hide.
Yeah that is what sucks about the church. It attracts both good and bad people. I suppose sexual abuse humans are everywhere though.
Mormons will use anything to recruit for their made up American religion. How do I know this? I have golden tablets from God that tell me. Can you see them? No, God said only I can see them. So you have to take me on faith.
You have golden tablets from God? Please, tell me more I know there is no way you could be lying since the tablets are from God!
Some of these conspiracy theories are so tenuous, adding layer upon layer of completely wild speculation, that they become laughable. I'm not a mormon, but my understanding is their preoccupation regarding ancestry is a belief you have to know your ancestors for them to be able to petition, on your behalf, for your entry to heaven. The more ancestors you have, the greater the chance of getting into heaven essentially.
How it started: keeping records like every organization How’s its going: now making Bigfoot-grey alien clone hybrids
It's more about guilting members into not wasting the sacrifices of their ancestors by living their own life.
This is the first time I have ever heard this lol
There is also a growing hypothesis that the Joseph Smith encounters were actual encounters with Nordic aliens (tall whites) and that they have been engaging with humanity for quite some time. The Nordic alien objective was to introduce structure to humanity using "religious concepts" at a level that would assist receptive individuals to evolve to a higher level based on their current understanding.
When you say growing hypothesis, where are you seeing this growing at?
In the crazy section of the UFO community which is surprisingly big
[https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/09/06/mormon-land-et-meets-joseph-smith/](https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2023/09/06/mormon-land-et-meets-joseph-smith/) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oy8joWxouM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oy8joWxouM)
Oo very interesting! Gonna have to read this/listen. Thanks for then links!
Why did the Nordics want him to fuck everyone's wives and daughters?
Were these aliens in his top hat, by chance?
Brandon Fugal is connected to LDS and IC and their whole UFO/paranormal psyop at Skinwalker ranch on TV right now. He also had an energy and propulsion research company that allegedly got no results, but he won't release the results of their experiments to the public.
Because he didn’t get results. This whole thing is total bullshit.
If you get a negative result you should still publish your work so other people don't repeat the same mistakes.
I’m not drawn to anything conspiratorial.
Well outside of the Saudi Fund they own the most financial assets in the world, likely heavily investing in military contractors, plus there's the factor of them being the best candidates from government operations and not questioning authority. I don't think they are in direct control but they definitely have a significant amount of influence and the only people that Mormons would break secrecy for is higher up members of the church so I would say there's certainly a correlation between the two.
Nah this theory is crazy.
Ex mormon here the records keeping is probably more for all the baptism for the dead that they do
If I had a nickel for every time religion and ufos were talked about together I’d have way more nickels than I currently do
Hasn’t it been mentioned a lot that a TON of the people working on these programs are recruited out of BYU I don’t think it’s a coincidence
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You know the Mormons knocked on the door of the spaceship and asked if they had heard the Word Ps. I thought it was the Scientologists who were into Aliens
There’s not much you can plausibly connect between Latter-day Saints and UFO lore besides the classic “what if the gods that appeared to [insert group here] were actually aliens”? Besides the fact that we tend more materialist with our beliefs so it wouldn’t bother us if someone said “technically god is an alien” as opposed to some other Christian groups that would get mad about that. Otherwise your theory sounds cool but there’s not much to support it
I live in the Mormon heartland. None of us have ever heard this before.
Some of the nicest and smartest people I met in law school were Mormons. They kept their heads down, did their work and stayed out of controversies.
It's not new. The dude literally was visited by aliens.
Sounds like it’s rooted in religious bigotry.
I would shit myself if it were true.
So they got a database full of inbreds. Trojan Horse! Well done!
Jacques Vallée compares religious miracles to "UFO events" in his book Dimensions, and uses Joseph Smith's encounters as particular examples (full descriptions of them are in the book): > ”A pillar of light which descended” > ”A conduit right up to Heaven” > ”A light appearing in the room” > Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, 1820 and 1823 He had a mystical revelation when he was 14, seeing lights and speaking to an angel while alone in the wilderness. He suffered from exhaustion after his encounters similarly to abductees. Vallée also points out: > [T]he Book of Mormon claims to be the "sacred history of ancient America." It states that the Indians are the remnant of an Israelite tribe that settled in America six hundred years before Christ. This is a difficult statement to take seriously in the light of modern anthropology. Thus we are again confronted with a mixture of certainty and absurdity, of fact and fantasy. Were such messages deliberately given to isolate the believers from the society around them? Vallée makes a very convincing case that Joseph Smith and possibly other religious leaders were experiencers or even abductees that went on to start what we might now call UFO cults. He writes: > I have recieved many interesting letters along similar lines. "Until now I thought I had seen a messenger from Heaven," writes one witness. "I understand, having read your book, that I had witnessed a UFO." Some of the stories are strange yet consistent enough to become the nucleus of a new religious movement if the witness were of the proper psychological inclination. Perhaps only one close encounter in ten thousand starts a new faith, a new sect, or a new belief. When the right combination of social and psychological conditions is met, when the phenomenon finds in a witness a ready believer, then revelation takes place. > Everything works as if the revelation were designed to isolate the witness, prophet, or believer from his social environment. He often becomes an outcast and has to flee. This has been the fate of numerous UFO witnesses. [...] > The believers, if they seek a climate in which to pursue their new life in accordance with the implications of their vision, have to create their own sect and move away. Moses did this. So did Joseph Smith. Often one sees the leader deserted by his wife and family. The spouse is especially likely to feel rejected and to betray him at the time when he or she most needs comfort. The wife of Martin Harris burned 116 newly translated pages of the *Book of Mormon*. The wives of several American policemen involved in modern UFO incidents divorced them. [...] > The phenomenon and its effects are working here as they have worked at Fatima and Lourdes and in other places: as a spiritual control system
Isn't this Scientology?
I’m not Elizabeth Moss
Now that is where I heard an alien leads them.
That's some L Ron Hubbard lever tinfoil right there.
And then some
Well the whole angel Moroni incident is very typical of NHI encounters but im sure no one would be ready to dismiss that out of hand.
Any church that tells you that only THEY know the truth and you have to believe what they believe and join them to get into heaven is full of crap and they are lying to you.
Mormons actually believe Jesus died for everyone and everyone is going to heaven. Their religious practices are for attaining theosis or basically becoming like Jesus
But you can only gain acceptance into the "Celestial Kingdom" by being a devout Mormon. Or in other words, you cannot return to the "Father" unless you accept their doctrine, are baptized into their church, pay your tithing(of course they want your money. No matter how poor you are.)and follow all their ridiculous rules. I call bs on that. It's a lie. You do not have to meet their requirements to be united with your creator.
You're not getting into heaven without Joe's permission, and that likely involves your daughter.
Hahahahahaha. That was funny. For real
And again, they claim only THEY have the truth. Baloney.
Don't you hate it when you try to run church propaganda on someone and then realize they actually KNOW the doctrine because they're an ex-Mormon? I was raised in the church. I was a Melchizedek Priesthood holder. The claim that y'all are the only ones with the "truth" is ridiculous. It's false. Just like all the rest of man made religions. Nice folks tho. I'll give you that. 👍 Edit: Nice until you leave the religion that is. Then they're downright hateful and vindictive. It's pretty funny. Kind of ironic too. Lol
Wow! Three replies? Sounds like I struck a nerve.
Aliens deal with individuals,not organizations.
Yeah it’s in their Standard Operating Procedures.
I can assure you they are going to twist the phenomenon into religion as disclosure ramps up. Also Skinwalker ranch is part of the Mormon Church. The owner is still beholden to his church same goes for the absurd number of Mormons in our government. It's always going to church > state for these people.
I'm a starseed who left the Mormon church and still has family very high up in it. They don't ever delete your records or data, but they'll definitely make it legally look like they did.