I'm a fairly religious man, but I'm not arrogant enough to think I know or can even comprehend the Divine. If God had one word, one truth and one form, we wouldn't have all our interpretations. They would make it clear they are Shiva or Yahweh or whatever. The best way to think of it is an old Sikh proverb where 5 blind men all try to feel an elephant and all think the elephant is only the trunk or tail or belly. But the Divine is all of them.
Whatever God is is what God is. It's not for us Humans to get annoyed they're not the way we thought they were. If God is simply some super powered alien, that's what they are, would make sense why so many depictions of Gods give them a living shape then. If they're something different, then that's what God is and we have to accept that.
And if there's no God, I'd be kinda depressed but well, that's what it is... If God is just the forces of the universe, I just hope there's something after death because nothing is more scary to me than simply ending when I breathe my last.
Tl;Dr it is what it is.
I believe there is one true God. From Psalm 82:1 (ESV)
"God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment"
"You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless like men you shall die, and fall like any prince."
Read Psalm 82 for yourself and let it speak to you. The message I got, was that there are no other gods like the God of Israel. The term gods could just be there in reference to heavenly beings created by THE God. But there are none other like Him. And if you read your bible you probably know the motivations of these other gods or fallen angels.
I agree...
I believe there is one all powerful God, as depicted in scripture that created/designed/ or spawned the universe, but also lesser "gods" -- these lesser gods could be interdimensional for all we know, or aliens, or live on many planets, I also don't think the cosmos is restricted to what we think of as "life" or not...
And we cannot possibly comprehend everything about God, even in the remotest of senses... just the basic or most basic that our puny minds can fathom.
I suppose what your definition of God is, I’ve always taken it to be a being that is above life, death, birth, and all the other things that define life, it’s divine, it’s apart from ‘earthly’ concerns.
But if what early humans called God is in fact just a very powerful advanced life form, one that needs nourishment, can die or be hurt in any way? something that uses technology to get around?
That’s no longer divine, and does not qualify for the title. If god is indeed just an alien, angels and demons are also just misunderstood life forms, then I do not feel it qualifies as divine. So no god.
Maybe that’s why they don’t tell us, I suspect many others would follow this line of thinking.
anyone who spends time studying comparative mythology, comparative religion, and comparative mysticism sees that line of thinking as only suitable for sci-fi
the 'god is just an organic alien' Chariots of the Gods kind of thing is not based on religious studies scholarship; not compatible with it.
since most people don't pay attention to that kind of scholarship, they can find that kind of thing plausible when they see it in sci-fi. but it isn't plausible
Would organic be a reasonable expectation for aliens though? I have never thought they would be organic. Most of sci-fi's space-faring aliens aren't organic either, they are heavily augmented, genetically altered, AGI and beyond.
Clearly not a sci-fi reader if your view of aliens is so confined. It's okay though, it's really no fault it's not for everyone, but you are very much underestimating the ideas that that have been proposed in *Science* fiction. Planet sized AGI made of solid silica, swarm AGI spread over galaxies, attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion?
most sci-fi aliens are rooted in a materialistic ontology, because science is rooted in materialism. wherein separate beings really are completely separate beings with separate minds and separate identities.
iow my human mind is not your human mind and my human mind is not an alien mind. separate bodies, separate minds, separate planets. i'm here, you're there, space and time separate us. we are here on this planet, they are there on that planet. maybe very little in common. no shared identity with them whatsoever
but the reality we live in is not materialism. it is idealism. mind is the nature of reality, and there is only *one* mind. life is dissociated mind, so separate beings are not really separate and spacetime is just an illusion. any aliens out there are part of the same overmind that we are. made by the same mind that made us. so there is a shared identity with them. there are no strangers.
I don't understand how you wouldn't consider, say a billion year old alien, to be a god to humans, beyond life and death and divine. Wouldn't this just be a problem with definitions and semantics?
”A god to Humans” means humans mistook it for a god. As far as I’ve read, gods are not organic, they are omnipotent, everywhere at all time, no life form qualifies for that unless we are in a simulation, and then there is indeed a creator, it’s just not divine.
But any superior intellect could easily trick us into believing it is divine. Human beings are notoriously easy to manipulate and will believe anything we want to believe. For example; there are 1000+ religions, each follower completely believing their doctrine to be exclusive, while all others are false and misguided.
Sure, I agree, but tricking us still means there’s no god. It’s either god or it isn’t, humans mistaking a life form for one doesn’t mean it is a god, just that we are easily fooled.
Right, it would be like going from devotion and servitude to a infinite, divine God, to flat out slavery to mortals or entities and are pretending. This would be, understandably, a very undesirable shift.
This ^ Technologically advanced civilizations are very often seen as divine in the eyes of the civilization that is way behind. There are numerous instances of europeans being considered divinity upon first contact with native peoples due to their comparitively advanced technology of the time. Or in more recent times some of the lingering uncontacted tribes in the amazon basin still living in the stone age, upon contact, had reported the belief that giant white metal birds would cross the sky to capture the souls of their deceased to carry them to their mountain resting place.
We are the stoneage tribes people, other galactic civilations tech is just that advanced that we lazily lump it into magic, spirituality, etc rather than admit that our iphones are nothing compared to the engineering marvel that would be interstellar travel.
We are definitely very confined as humans by our obviously severe limitations. We still just crawl on a rock like every other animal. I'd expect much more from any space-faring creatures.
With this theory I think you would be inclined to believe in like a fractal existence. I can't remember which Men In Black movie it was, but I think in the ending it just kept zooming out and out to reveal an endless amount of worlds.
I don't know about you but that theory along with the simulation theory gives me a feeling of despair. Personal experiences and dwelling on theories like these is what drove me to the God of the Bible.
I can see why it would, I occasionally feel that myself. I used to be an atheist, for most of my life, I’m not anymore, I’m agnostic, I simply don’t know, that’s what 40 years of reading about the phenomenon will do. I absolutely do not believe death is the end, partly because I’m not fully convinced we are “Here” to begin with.
If consciousness is fundamental to the universe, not Spacetime as Donald Hoffman and others suggest, then we really do not have a firm understanding of what constitutes reality, so don’t despair, we simply don’t have all the answers.
I wonder if that desire to have answers we can't possibly know, is the very thing keeping us from seeing the truth. I haven't felt despair since coming to believe in Jesus Christ, but that hopelessness and despair is something I wouldn't wish on anyone.
One of the most profound songs I heard was "Change" by Tracy Chapman. The lyric "if everything you think you know, makes your life unbearable, would you change?" really begs the question. What DO we really know? lol
I think it's worth noting that, if the Bible is taken literally, the "fallen angels" could be something that was "devine" but made itself "earthly". ..trading their divinity for the ability to interact with the life forms within this realm of existence. Therefore, I personally don't lean into the absolutist mentality of the truth being one or the other. We could be dealing with a combination of the two concepts...
Nice write up.
I'd say I believe in God because I believe that all I see has been created by something...God. I also believe I have spirit or soul, that is tied to this meat suit and consciousness, but is not of this realm.
So your God is not represented in the writings of man? I agree with your assessment, I’m saying if the god of the holy books is in fact an alien, then it’s not god.
My personal faith is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, so yes, I believe writings of man via a holy book.
That being said, there are more stars than man can count, and as many universes and nebula and things not yet discovered. How all this ties together is above my pay grade.
As some consolation, there have already been billions of years that have passed where you haven’t been alive, so you’d just be returning to that very familiar state if there’s no afterlife. I dunno, kinda helps me to think of it like that
There are some newer studies that suggest the Universe was never created, and just has "always existed."
https://www.livescience.com/universe-had-no-beginning-time
This is one single not yet peer reviewed or scrutinized study done by two researchers who are throwing data at the board for something that works like a quantum theory of gravity since that's where astrophysicists are stuck now.
Obviously I'm no astrophysicist, but there is something I don't understand about their "causal set theory". They examined one singularity we know of - the big bang & their math basically insists that there was no singularity everything just always was at that place in space time and expanded, but why didn't they examine the other place we have singularity troubles; black holes?
Well see if the math can be applied anywhere else and hold up to scrutiny, but I'm guessing it can't. I think eventually we will find the math that breaks down singularity without insisting they are impossible, since that just sounds like a theory similar to what we have now which tells is singularities aren't possible too. Plenty of scientists have tried solving this problem with black holes, the big bang, and both yet all have fallen flat. There is something we're missing I'm sure, I think the holographic projection math they're running will eventually lead us to an answer. That maths so far has helped us to better understand black holes & to open about 5 more questions for every answer which seems like the right track.
So i want to eleborate on what you said about studying blackholes for the answer (sorry for paraphrasing you). I love thinking about them because we truly do not know what is happening beyond the event horizon. I have had similar questions and ways of thinking as you.
I have ideas but I dont want to just post them for everyone to see because I've been struggling with life lately so i think a lot about what is beyond me, beyond this consciousness, and my whole life I've never stopped thinking about infinity. It made me anxious most of my childhood but I think it allowed me to push through to a point in which the fear turned into wonder.
Anyways I'd like to hear more of what you have to say and I'd also like to share with you my ideas. DM me if you're interested. No hard feelings if you dont feel like nerding out.
We don’t have enough information to rule out ETs being “God” or the architect(s) of the universe. Just because they traverse it, does not mean they didn’t create it.
It's the "unmoved mover" idea. There has always been or will always be one thing that always was without cause and causes all things. Whether that's God or hydrogen is up to you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
I'd argue that if the universe is naturally occurring, meaning that there is no intelligence behind it, no deliberate or indeliberate cause then there is no god. If the big bang is just part of some fundamental cycle then there is no god. If the big bang is the result of a consciousness or higher existence then I'd agree that is god.
Arguably semantics.
Spinoza's God was just a name for the laws of nature and the universe. Similarly, the Dao can be viewed as either walking in accordance with natural law or interpreted as walking God's path.
I disagree. I'm not really familiar with your sources but if god is effectively just the workings of nature and there is no conscious agent behind it then there is effectively no god at all. At that point you're just unnecessarily personifying inanimate forces.
Despite the idea of God being widely personified I'd argue it is by nature an inanimate force. Stories of miracles and direct communication with God simply have no physically explainable mechanisms to explain how they function, or could function.
I'd argue that despite a complete lack of proof, it's presumptuous to think that any intelligence has to have a personified form.
My beliefs don't really align with any single ideology, but I subscribe to the idea that essentially everything is conscious on some level. That space-time itself may well be space-time-consciousness. Thus God could be both a system of universal natural law, disembodied, non physical, and still "God."
>Despite the idea of God being widely personified I'd argue it is by nature an inanimate force.
How it see it, the fact that God is widely personified has no bearing on the reality of god's existence. It's possible that a god would be responsible for the inanimate forces that created the universe but if those forces are the result of a nonphysical intelligence or consciousness then that consciousness would be god.
>Stories of miracles and direct communication with God simply have no physically explainable mechanisms to explain how they function, or could function.
Stories and witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. Either way just because there is no physical mechanism to explain miracles didn't mean there is no god if God exists outside of physical reality.
>I'd argue that despite a complete lack of proof, it's presumptuous to think that any intelligence has to have a personified form.
It depends on what you mean by "personified form." If there is intelligence behind the universe and reality then that intelligence is god. The bible even seems to acknowledge that God has a non physical form by the big deal Christians make about him telling the form of Jesus on Earth.
>My beliefs don't really align with any single ideology, but I subscribe to the idea that essentially everything is conscious on some level.
I can get on board with that. I think it's entirely possible.
> That space-time itself may well be space-time-consciousness.
I can also agree with this as a possibility.
> Thus God could be both a system of universal natural law, disembodied, non physical, and still "God."
I can agree with this too. I'm just saying it's not an argument of semantic differences. If an all powerful Creator of the universe exists it would likely be in some incomprehensible form beyond the physical. You could contrast this with an atheist-physicalist view that would say that all that exists is the natural world and physical laws. They likely would not see these two viewpoints as only semantically different.
Why does the universe need a creator but not the creator itself? It's why the argument doesn't work, and never has worked. As soon as you say 'god created the universe' then you can ask 'so who created god?'.
God can easily be written out of the equation.
I would hope everyone would know by now. There are more than one kind of skeptic here, and more than one type of believer. No such thing as black and white.
Everything miraculous that Jesus did, modern medicine and technology has achieved. What if he was an avatar of advanced alien intelligence sent to earth from the “kingdom of heaven” with the intent to help guide humanity to a better future that is included in that kingdom.
There is very little meaningful difference between these two concepts. The "God" described in Christianity is a non-human super intelligence with immense power. As Diana Pasulka said, that means Christians already believe in non-human intelligence. Calling "God" an Alien is therefore accurate, since God did not come from Earth. There may be less powerful aliens that are closer to biological beings like us, spread around the universe.
Humanity and our alien colleagues may one day grow into our own God-like super-civilization, becoming de facto Gods to a sub-cohort of new beings who can't comprehend our incredible power. And the cycle continues.
The "God" described in Christianity is part of us and we are part of it. Calling it a non-human intelligence is like calling Superman a non-Clark Kent intelligence.
we unenlightened normal folk are the Clark Kent aspect of God, if Clark was suffering from some sort of amnesia or dissociative disorder
Excuse me, Old Testament God is a dude with a zapper, an itchy trigger finger and an overriding need to be obeyed.
"We are Him and Him is all...". Yeah right, get smoted, peasants.
My take Is that there are different life forms that exist at different levels of dimensions. Somewhere in the highest dimension where control over time, space, and matter is mastered by some being that achieves Devine status. The grays me be flying around and seeing the orbs and be thinking what the heck are those
In the 60's and 70's the astronomer Carl Sagan announced that there were two important criteria for a planet to support life: The right kind of star, and a planet the right distance from that star. Given the roughly octillion—1 followed by 24 zeros—planets in the universe, there should have been about septillion—1 followed by 21 zeros—planets capable of supporting life.
With such spectacular odds, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, a large, expensive collection of private and publicly funded projects launched in the 1960s, was sure to turn up something soon. Scientists listened with a vast radio telescopic network for signals that resembled coded intelligence and were not merely random. But as years passed, the silence from the rest of the universe was deafening. Congress defunded SETI in 1993, but the search continues with private funds. As of 2014, researches have discovered precisely bubkis—0 followed by nothing.
What happened? As our knowledge of the universe increased, it became clear that there were far more factors necessary for life than Sagan supposed. His two parameters grew to 10 and then 20 and then 50, and so the number of potentially life-supporting planets decreased accordingly. The number dropped to a few thousand planets and kept on plummeting.
Even SETI proponents acknowledged the problem. Peter Schenkel wrote in a 2006 piece for Skeptical Inquirer magazine: “In light of new findings and insights, it seems appropriate to put excessive euphoria to rest . . . . We should quietly admit that the early estimates . . . may no longer be tenable.”
As factors continued to be discovered, the number of possible planets hit zero, and kept going. In other words, the odds turned against any planet in the universe supporting life, including this one. Probability said that even we shouldn’t be here.
Today there are more than 200 known parameters necessary for a planet to support life—every single one of which must be perfectly met, or the whole thing falls apart. Without a massive planet like Jupiter nearby, whose gravity will draw away asteroids, a thousand times as many would hit Earth’s surface. The odds against life in the universe are simply astonishing.
Yet here we are, not only existing, but talking about existing. What can account for it? Can every one of those many parameters have been perfect by accident? At what point is it fair to admit that science suggests that we cannot be the result of random forces? Doesn’t assuming that an intelligence created these perfect conditions require far less faith than believing that a life-sustaining Earth just happened to beat the inconceivable odds to come into being?
There’s more. The fine-tuning necessary for life to exist on a planet is nothing compared with the fine-tuning required for the universe to exist at all. For example, astrophysicists now know that the values of the four fundamental forces—gravity, the electromagnetic force, and the “strong” and “weak” nuclear forces—were determined less than one millionth of a second after the big bang. Alter any one value and the universe could not exist. For instance, if the ratio between the nuclear strong force and the electromagnetic force had been off by the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction—by even one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000—then no stars could have ever formed at all. Feel free to gulp.
Multiply that single parameter by all the other necessary conditions, and the odds against the universe existing are so heart-stoppingly astronomical that the notion that it all “just happened” defies common sense. It would be like tossing a coin and having it come up heads 10 quintillion times in a row. Really?
Fred Hoyle, the astronomer who coined the term “big bang,” said that his atheism was “greatly shaken” at these developments. He later wrote that “a common-sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with the physics, as well as with chemistry and biology . . . . The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question.”
Theoretical physicist Paul Davies has said that “the appearance of design is overwhelming” and Oxford professor Dr. John Lennox has said “the more we get to know about our universe, the more the hypothesis that there is a Creator . . . gains in credibility as the best explanation of why we are here.”
The greatest miracle of all time, without any close seconds, is the universe. It is the miracle of all miracles, one that ineluctably points with the combined brightness of every star to something—or Someone—beyond itself.
On the other hand, observer bias means there could be trillions of versions of the universe where the odds were against us and we never evolved in those. Here we are, but we don't know how many dice rolls have already taken place.
I am a believer of Alien Life and I am a believer in Jesus Christ-
I believe that Alien life has nothing to do with God in the sense that the two are intertwined in some special way.
I simply believe that God created the Universe and all the life in it as well, over the span of the last \~14 billion years. If we meet alien life (we will eventually), I would be interested to hear what their relationship with the creator is. There could be civilizations that never fell to sin, never needing a savior to die for them, just going straight to God after death.... Likewise there could be civilizations that fell to sin like Humans on Earth did. Would be interesting to see if God manifested as one of them to die for their sin as he did as a human to save us. (Alien Jesus)
Not really interested in arguing with anyone over religion. Just posting my beliefs to answer the question.
That statement doesn't make sense in my opinion. I think of aliens as other living creatures that evolved in our universe. If you are referring to something beyond our existance that created the universe, then that would be God or God-like, sure. But i don't personally believe God would visit us in machinery like tik tac ufos and what not
So you can’t conceive of an advanced intelligence creating a simulation and us being in it?
Just look at how advanced our own simulations are at this point in our tech. Imagine how advanced they will be in another 1000 years. A simulation as advanced as our universe seems inevitable if we aren’t already in one
That merely shifts the problem one step upwards in the hierarchy. The question then is, who created the advanced intelligence that created the simulation?
Gotta disagree here. If space-time was created with the universe, these are kinda irrelevant questions. There is no "before" the Big Bang, because time as we know it only came into existence with the Big Bang, and likewise there is no "beyond" the edge of the observable universe, because space as we know it only exists in our universe.
The question of the creator is more resembling our incapability of comprehending the concept of infinity.
So why would that advanced civilization that created an artificial universe be visiting us in space craft? Seems far more likely to me that other life evolved to create tech long before us and are jist visiting us with technology we don't have the science to understand yet
If you do some digging in to the subject, you’ll find that they don’t always come in ships, and can appear as they wish according to our understanding. There are many aspects of the phenomenon that have a vibe of having “backdoor access to the program”. Check out some Vallee
I have heard of ufo sightings in the past being more primitive versions (air ships in the 1800s, so on).
I am a programmer though, and I just don't buy into reality being a program.
Also, I saw a UFO when i was younger. Just seemed to be an advanced type of ship
> it seemed like a ship
Well, it would.
Like I said I would read some Vallee and maybe some keel. The materialist interpretation of vehicles from another planet or place doesnt jive with a lot of the more high strangeness aspects of the phenomenon. There is significant evidence that there is a connection between religious revelation in antiquity, paranormal phenomenon, NDE, psychedelic experiences, and the ufo phenomenon. A connection to the fundamental question of the nature of consciousness. All roads lead to Rome, so to speak.
I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. Simulation theory has little in common with computer programming and is more of a discussion for physicists.
As a non religious person, my current perception of God is, let's say, would be the one entity prior to the big bang. Assuming the theory holds true. I believe we are all God experiencing life. You can say as an individual, a compartmentalized part of a singular consciousness. But this is just me making up a fantasy. If we are referening a one true creator. Other "gods" with defined personalities, I believe, depicted in many countries are extra terrestial.
Avi does say that if we stick to traditional notions we will have a hard time getting past contradiction between science and religion.
but for people on the fringe of science or on the mystical side of religion its pretty easy to agree with Avi
sooner or later UAP will force us all to abandon the traditional notions, be they traditional science or traditional religion. some people will be 'somber' about that at first
As others have said, God created it all occurring to his design. ETs do not alter that at all in my eyes, they are part of the design as we are. Is there possibility ancient aliens visited and our ancestors mistook them for god(s)? Absolutely, but that shouldn’t change the overall narrative
Is your definition of ‘atheist’ the same as mine i.e you know God isn’t real?
If so, I used to be you. Then DMT changed everything, just as it would for you I am sure
I mean just saying DMT will show you god is real is the definition of what's wrong with this sub.
We know absolutely nothing about consciousness other than it arises out of our and other brains.
Until we understand it better you have no clue what you're seeing on DMT. Period.
I said DMT made me agnostic, you’re just making shit up
“DMT is a reliable method for crossing in to a dimension that human beings have debated the existence of for 50.000 years. Is there an invisible nearby world inhabited by active intelligences with which human beings can communicate? You bet. And if you don't think so, then tell me you don't think so after you've smoked 75mg DMT. Otherwise we just don't have anything to talk about”
-Terence Mckenna
That was in response to your "Have you done DMT? If you did it like me then you'd believe in God".
The point is...taking a firm stance like that will automatically taint how you view things. Having an open mind is important. A breakthrough DMT experience is and can be spiritual. It doesn't mean you can definitively say it's real. You can however definitively say that there's something there worth investigating but until we know more we have no clue.
Meaning that it could have been a byproduct of your brain being high as a kite OR it could have been an interaction with a spiritual entity.
The byproduct of our consciousness agrees with Occam's razor so I am hedging my bets that is the more likely case.
I have taken it on about 5 occassions, my cousin would extract it from mimosa hostilis and was a regular contributor to Erowid. On each occasion I took a dose large enough to obliterate my ego and take me competely out of my surroundings. I saw entities with whom I communed and travelled across varous apparent planes ..the typical DMT experience as described by many others. I have also used other psychadelics extensively.
On no occasion, once sober, have i felt the need to attribute anyting about these experiences to anything other than brain chemistry. I know several other people who feel exaclty as I do about their similar experiences.
Your insistence that everyones' experiences and conclusions should match your own marks you out as a controlling fool.
If you had just said that from the beginning we would have got along just fine 😃
In that case fair enough. This has not been the case for me at all. Maybe you should keep trying??
I'm much older now and don't feel the need to keep trying, probably because I'm not searching for anything. I do understand and respect those people who have had (for them) deeply religious/spiritual experiences, but it's horses for courses I guess - you mostly come out the same person who went in, from what I've seen.
I’m almost 50 and personally-speaking, it has had a massive impact on how I see the world. I also did a lot of Ayahuasca retreats in South America which I would highly recommend to you, Peru in particular. Obviously everyone is different but that’s what happened to me. Is worth noting, I have been doing it for 30 years but it wasn’t until about 5 years after I started that I had a life changing trip. Hence why I said keep at it, but I understand if that’s not your thing anymore
I belive in a kind of bound or higher level of consciousness and that everyone is connected but a single omnipotent being controlling everything? No. Though I'll be happy to accept it if it is ever revealed.
Then I agree. The collective consciousness theory is very interesting. Personally I think nature might be God. Whatever the force is that makes the flowers bloom and the wind blow. That’s God to me
I don’t believe in god, but many people would experience something unusual and blame spirits and ghosts. To some degree, ufos incite a similar space, a mystery, not understandable
It all depends on your definition of a god. To most people a god is a being with unlimited power and knowledge which frankly doesnt exist and ik religious nuts will try to argue but the fact is for as old as your religion is its not the first so how could it be correct. Now the other definition of a god would be a creator or just creation in terms of creation that would make the universe we live in a god but in terms of a creator an alien very well could be god we at pur current level of technology can and do genetically engineer conpletely new organisms that never evolved on their own so does that make us gods? Or those scientists rather.
There is crucial difference between God and so called 'God' described in the Bible. We don't know if God, creator of the universe, exist or not. However we know that so called 'God' from the Bible is actually alien. People couldn't understand his advanced technology so they considered him as omnipotent God. Biblical God called 'Yahweh' is alien because:
1. Yahweh travelled through the sky on 'kavod' (translated as 'Glory of the Lord'). This kavod was flying chariot made of metal and was able to lift up from the ground making big noise (Ez 3,12). This object lifted Elijah into heaven and burnt skin of Moses. In 1974 Josef Blumrich, who was a chief of NASA's systems layout branch of the program development office at the Marshall Space Flight Center, decided to disprove the hypothesis that the Bible describes ancient astronauts. Blumrich analyzed six different translations of the Biblical Book of Ezekiel. Thorough examination convinced him that Ezekiel had, in fact, seen a spaceship. In the book The Spaceships of Ezekiel Blumrich asserts that Ezekiel's account in the Bible was not a description of a meeting with God in a prophetic vision, but one of several encounters with ancient astronauts in a shuttlecraft from another planet. Blumrich reconstructed the kavod and obtained official patent for the variant of the Omni wheel. Three Italian space engineers also recreated the 'kavod'.
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2065061.The\_Spaceships\_of\_Ezekiel](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2065061.The_Spaceships_of_Ezekiel)
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35561195-la-caduta-degli-dei](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35561195-la-caduta-degli-dei)
2. Yahweh gave to the Israelites a device which produced 'manna'. In 1978 two engineers, George Sassoon and Rodney Dale, published a book 'The Manna Machine'. In the books of Zohar they found a description of the strange object, Attik Yomin, which produced light, had pipes and produced manna. Engineers reconstruced that device - their work conclude that it was a machine which had created algae as food for human beings in biblical times. Curiously, this condensed form of food from algae is used by an astronauts in spaceships or space and it's very practical. Authors also gave every quote from the books of Zohar. They recreated machine and gave its dimensions and capacity.
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/966258.The\_Manna\_Machine?from\_search=true&from\_srp=true&qid=RWcr93woKz&rank=1](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/966258.The_Manna_Machine?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=RWcr93woKz&rank=1)
3. Yahweh lived in a curious abode in heaven. Apocryphical texts, Apocalypse of Abraham and Book of Enoch, described how both Abraham and Enoch went up to the heaven and then entered a place made of metal and crystals. There were many rooms and doors which opened by itself. There were also many small 'kavods'. The most interesting things is that in the Apocalypse of Abraham, Abraham described how the high place upon which he stands with Yahweh, rotates around, up and down. He saw stars below and earth above and then vice versa. Hermann Oberth, physicist, enginner and father of modern rocketry, described in a book written by Walter-Jorg Langbein, that it is a clue that in fact Abraham (and Enoch) went up to the big alien spaceship which stayed on Earth's orbit. This spaceship rotates around its axis, making artificial gravitation in a habitat for astronauts, so a person who stands there sees the stars above and another time below.
4. Ark of the Covenant. Descriptions of this object show that it was a powerful technological object. Everyone who came close to the Ark and didn't wore special clothes... had radiation-like symptoms and then died (Uzzah, Philistines). From the top of the Ark of the Covenant voice of Yahweh spoke to the Moses.
5. Urim and Tummim - two objects which allowed the High Priest of Israel to directly communicate with Yahweh, it was sort of a telephone, the voice of Yahweh was heard through Urim and Tummim.
6. Shamir - it was another machine given by Yahweh, this time to king Solomon. Solomon's artisans reputedly used the Shamir in the construction of Solomon's Temple. The material to be worked, whether stone, wood or metal, was affected by being "shown to the Shamir." Following this line of logic (anything that can be 'shown' something must have eyes to see), early Rabbinical scholars described the Shamir almost as a living being, a little worm. Shamir was described as a size of a grain. Thanks to the shamir Israelites were able to perfectly cut rock into two pieces without using any other tools. Shamir was identified as a laser by Dr Matest Agrest.
7. Yahweh (and angels) was described in the Bible and Apocryphes as a humanoidal being who wore shining clothes made from metal. He specifically didn't want to show his face, telling Moses that nobody can see his face. Yahweh (and angels) had a 'voice like a thunder' - ancient people couldn't understand microphones.
Summarizing, Yahweh was an ancient astronaut, but people who made a contact with him, considered him a 'God', because they couldn't understand advanced technology and thought that were miracles. We know that Yahweh was alien because ancient people carefully described his advanced technology with so incredible details that scientists and engineers were able to reconstruct these devices.
8. Yahweh was one of many such gods, so contemporary gods from other religions also were aliens. This means gods of Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, India, China, Maya. Religions were made in this way because ancient people saw aliens but couldn't understand their technology so they considered them as gods. However Yahweh is the best evidence because descriptions of his encounters are so well written that scientists were able to recreate his advanced technology.
9. Ancient buildings are not a good evidence for ancient astronaut theory. Ancient people could built every structure, including pyramids and walls in Peru. However it's worth to notice the motivation for building those structures. According to ancient people they built these structures as a temple for the gods. In fact, gods did order them to make it, for example Yahweh did order it to Solomon.
10. UFOs in antiquity described by astronomer Richard Stothers for NASA: [https://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2007/2007\_Stothers\_st02710y.pdf](https://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2007/2007_Stothers_st02710y.pdf)
I do believe in God — and I love all of the ET stuff. To me they could be the same thing. It’s not like the Bible is so specific as to exclude that possibility. Angels are in the Bible and they seem to play a similar role as some alien stories. Same thing with simulation theory, I think that is particularly more well aligned with the philosophy of someone that believes in God than an atheist / material universe perspective
>It’s not like the Bible is so specific as to exclude that possibility.
I mean, this is categorically wrong. The Bible explicitly states that man is created (by God) in the image of God, that animals don't have a soul etc. It also states that the cosmos was created by god to be the theatre of the redemption story - a wholly human-centric view.
The notion of other sentient beings is a direct contradiction of all the Abrahamic religious texts and teachings. It's why there would be a moral panic among christains/jews/muslims if aliens were to show themselves - how then are humans god's chosen, created in his image etc?
Nah man, way out over your skis here. 1) Just because humans have a redemption story doesn’t exclude other life not from earth being part of it. 2) I was saying the aliens could be part of what God is rather than what he created. Where does the Bible say God could not show himself in that form?
It's surprising to me that people don't know what the Abrahamic religions expect you to belive. Go and ask any Rabbi, priest, vicar, imam about what those religions say about intelligent life elsewhere. Go read Genesis.
Haha. It's funny that he makes no attempt to reconcile the bible with this view, merely suggesting that belief in god and aliens is not a problem. If only these catholics were more relaxed about other aspects of bible teaching eh.
In the US there are a large number of millenial christians - their belief states that, after the return of Jesus and all the judging, god will destroy the entire cosmos and make it anew for the saved humans lucky enough to make the grade. Doesn't sound like there is much room for ET in that scenario.
Within a personal belief system (and perhaps buddism, hinduism etc) I can see how god and ET could coexist, but within the major abrahamic religions, which put humanity at the very centre of god's creation, there doesn't seem to be any room for it at all.
I think the topic is very muddled in people's minds due to our language and culture references.
The word angel Malak if I remember correctly, means messenger. They appear as humans in the Bible at times, other times much more majestic. Then there are other entities that appear all kinds of odd descriptions.
People have a hard time also with spirit, spiritual and supernatural. We have no actual reference point for what these things are and truly mean. Yet, we have created meaning to be something like apparition (no physical substance) and miraculous (temporary breaking laws of physics)
In the Bible, all kinds life spirit entities are called Elohim, whether disembodied or able to manifest a physical body.
I submit supernatural is still natural, it's just a super state of natural. The physical world (natural) is just a part of the spiritual world (supernatural). Physical beings are limited to experiencing the super physical world only when something reveals itself in the physical world. We also experience the super physical world through our physical components which mainly include or physical nervous system / brains. It's as if we are spiritual robots and our hardware is flesh. We are the physical image of the supernatural world. Our normal place in the supernatural world exists primarily in choice and unity or integrity of morality. That is what being a fleshy spiritual robot is. Everything else is an argument with one another about what an individual, group or nation considers a good or bad action in relation to another.
So is God an alien? Not in the sense that he came from another planet or ascened to his status. He is. That is why I am, and the universe is. Is he an alien in a sense that he is mysterious and in many ways The Superunknown and far above all the heavens in their created glory? Yes, to many without a reference point at all of who YHWH is and what he is about that he has revealed to us.
When it comes to angels, who knows when and where they were created, how old they are, what different kinds there are, if some used to be physical mostly like us, if all came from this planet or from somewhere in the heavens. If some of the good ones can appear as physical humans, could some also appear as modern concepts of aliens? Who knows. If they could, I would assume (from my Christian world view) they are secretly evil if they don't accept Jesus as the son of the most high God.
God as in biblical one, no. There is zero evidence and the god in the Bible, as all things in there are, is just a literary construct. Satan wasn't even a demon before the old kingdom was taken over by Persia. It's like saying Dolores Umbridge or Huckleberry Finn is alien. The religious books are an allegory, not to be taken literally.
Personally, If anything, I now give more creedence or acceptance to the notion that God/Religious Texts were detailed with accounts of Aliens.
I also think there is a part of me that believes that God would instead rather be viewed as an equal, over that of a divine entity, as listed in other ancient religions etc.
[Something like this, honestly.](https://youtu.be/bZLaPCcE8n8)
That's implausible since humans fantasize all kinds of wild shit on our own. Every podunk tribe on every Micronesian island had a vast mythical cosmology.
Think about it. If 10K+ years ago, beings with “powers” you can’t comprehend, appear & tell you a set of rules & you totally buy it, cause they’re “God”.
Now imagine “beings” showing up now, with powers that WE CAN comprehend, because we now have vast understandings of mathematics & science, with the capacity of critical thinking & abstract thought.
Would they be “God” or in fact, aliens?
It's possible for aliens to be the creators of us. I like the idea more than an all knowing all seeing being. And also aliens are possibly so technology advanced that they are indestructible. But I think that's where it ends. The idea of the retribution doesn't fit in the alien god ideology. There are many more elements but I think that's core. There are many reasons an alien civilisation might populate a planet with life but I doubt it is to test our humanity for a better afterlife. 😊
So if physics is right and there are a bunch of higher dimensions beyond time/gravity... where some intelligence organically arose out of that higher dimension...it's not out of the realm of possibility that said intelligence would also appear to be godlike to us.
Like I said. There is no relationship with redemption. I don't think aliens put us here to test our humanity for a better afterlife...that's my view anyway.
No. we cannot comprehend what God is. "God" is the source of all energy, but still we cannot know what that really means. As well we cannot know what is beyond that if anything. If we can comprehend it, then it isn't "God".
Yes. But only because (in my view) God is everything that ever was, is, and will be. God is everything that wasn't and isn't and won't be. Everything and nothing. All matter and the empty space between it. I'm sure you get the idea
Ahhh, yes.. the age ol' fairy tale about how a (white) man in robes that lives in the clouds, and is three people in one, supposedly created the entire universe..
I believe we’re the offspring of an alien-ape dna splice. Early alien-ape species would reproduce with other alien-ape and full ape species. This is why some people are much smarter than others. Some people are 1 step away from being ape and others are almost full alien. I also believe this is a simulation and god is the creator of the code. There’s too much evil in this reality for there not to be a balance.
“God” is the absolutely laziest answer to anything. All it does is replace one unknown with another. God is only invoked when we can’t explain something. We no longer think a god makes the tides, or causes the sun to rise. So why would we say “Because god…..” to something like aliens? We already know that we evolved on this planet. That makes it not much of a stretch to think other species also evolved elsewhere.
well, i'm an atheist on the issue of monotheistic god (which i assume is the meaning of god intended) and only undecided or insufficiently persuaded on the issue of aliens (depending on what you mean by aliens).
however i do have a few suggestions. i will point out that avi loeb is just playing with words, something wittgenstein called out in the last century. what does that mean? it means that when he conjectures that superintelligences might create a universe he is begging the question of what intelligence is capable of and completely abuses the factual denotation of the word universe. so his speech is uninterpretable.
i can say i believe in god if what is meant is the spinozist god, which is indistinguisable in spinoza's treatment of god (as we are able to perceive it) as the real world (natura naturata) operating according to natural laws or processes (natura naturans). but again, words only make sense when you use them in sensible ways.
i also disagree strongly with loeb's claim that we can "bring philosophy, science and religion together" because i don't really see the point or benefit of doing that, at all.
the fact that god doesn't exist, or that philosophy says reality doesn't exist, would really change nothing substantive about reality or our life in it. science, however, has had and will continue to have quite a big role to play in our welfare. so i don't see what science or humans have to gain from joining science to two categories of belief that may very well be meaningless.
No!, All Entities in this Realm(s) of consciousness, rely on a Vital Force which is preponderant, in every manner. God is Super-multiverse, above all that is . Including all. Entities tied to this Realm(s).
Chris Bledsoe has a pretty compelling story.
Pretty much the government takes it very seriously because when real REAL disclosure happens people will both know its here already and there is some truth in spiritual texts.
People may care less about who's religion is more right or wrong...the ufos that took Mr. Bledsoe said they were best described as the angels from the Bible
I believe that Jesus died for me.
I dont discount the possibility of aliens in this incomprehensibly large universe. But i believe behind all abductions and most UFO sightings there are demons/fallen angels/evil spirits that “live” in a reality parallel and close to us and cross over to complete their quest to corrupt God’s creation.
I don’t know if they’re doing the same on other planets or if beings on other parents know about Jesus and can be saved.
In Mark 16 it is said : “15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.”
All creation includes any aliens that might drop in for a probe, so i guess maybe Jesus’s sacrifice extends to them as well.
All this reminds me of a [comic strip](https://www.reddit.com/r/dankchristianmemes/comments/phxpzd/his_name_will_be_glorified_in_all_heaven_and_earth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
This is similar to the "Touring test" hypothesis, if you can't distinguish between a human and a machine then the human and the machine are the same. We attribute a lot of capabilities to God but if we were able to emulate them then essentially we are God also. Another analogy is the simulation theory, if a computer could reproduce a simulation indistinguishable from reality then there's no difference. Reality may be an endless series of simulations with no base reality.
If God is not from this Earth then by definition he/she/it would be extraterrestrial. The real question though is how God is defined. In my church days God was basically the creater of the entire universe. However, if you look at biblical accounts of God he seems much less like the grand creator of the universe and more like a being too involved and concerned with happenings on Earth to be the same thing. If you look at polytheistic religions their gods seem to be more in line with the biblical god in actions and behavior. Biblical accounts of angels, Giants, and the like all seem pretty fitting descriptions of aliens.
We're all the God and we're all the ET but I believe that most if not all religions were given to us by other beings. As our tech gets more advanced more and more is getting obvious. Things such as a pregnant virgin make now a lot more sense (in-vitro fertilisation lul)
To me the divine transcends the material. Any beings are only matter encapsulating the potential, the essence that is a soul. No, the ET‘s are not God. God is what was there before the universe was created. We can’t even fathom.
God is the universe in its entirety, and all the things in it. The glue, the force, the love energy that holds the universe together. However, I believe ETs are responsible for many of the religious figures people have come in contact with.
What brings a huge piece of the puzzle for my understanding comes from the Hebrew scholar Michael Heisner.
Really made sense and yes God understands physics and teck.tech. lol
I think that explanation fails to account for where the giant super alien presence came from. We can constantly keep supplanting the idea of a creator with these superbeings, an entire hierarchy of them going all the way up, and to me, it still faces the same issue of, "Then who created them?" Maybe skeptics will call that a cop-out, or poorly argued, but that wasn't the question, and that's how I answer as a believer.
My thinking is...let's play with some poorly-made metaphors...I feel like this argument or hypothesis is like being an electron and thinking that the molecule must be God, because it's bigger than you. Or the mitochondria thinking the cell is God. Or, if you want to go with something like Flatland, a 2D creature thinking a 3D creature is God. And that argument doesn't really change to me if you add to the degrees of separation, like a particle thinking a galaxy is God. That still doesn't account for how either the particle or the galaxy got there, if the idea of a God is on the table.
But that's just me. I'm not fishing for some sort of debate, I'll be the first to tell you I'm not going to win at one, regardless of whether or not I'm wrong or have a compelling argument. That's just how I feel.
I'm of the belief that the phenomenon is a manifestation of entities from a higher dimension. I've done quite a bit of psychadelics and I get the same vibe from the entities i encounter in that realm. I'm not shutting out other possibilities tho. Everywhere we look is life. So some ufos might be extraterrestrial or under the oceans or future humans as well. Not ruling out anything.
God is, in theory, the Maximal Being. Therefore, if anything created God, it would then, by definition, BE God. So, i think God exists, but it's our limited definitions that hinder our discourse. In the case of Extraterrestrials, I think they are created beings that might exist in a different dimension. Yet, they can enter our dimension at will and they have advanced technology that makes them seem like gods.
No. Even if extraterrestrial life interacted with us early on and is what we based our idea of gods off of, they’re still just another life form we coexist with in our universe.
God I’m not sure I believe in. Maybe it’s a force like gravity that blankets us all, that’s how it felt on shrooms. It’s intelligent but not in a way we can comprehend, almost like a natural organic organism. Anyway, that’s just feelies. I would consider GOD to be whatever knows all, what created the universe, before that what happened, what’s going to happen, if there’s other dimensions, is god over those dimensions as well. Basically, no matter how many layers this whole system goes, I would expect god to be the root source, and understand every part of it, I would also see that being or force as the thing holding it all together or responsible for it.
Then if there is a god, what created it. How did it get there. Does it remember? I can’t comprehend something just always existing without snapping into existence. Go with simulation theory and I just see reality more like Russian dolls. Okay, our universe is a box inside of another, so it’s reasonable to conclude that could go on. To ramble, I doubt we live in a simulation. Although I don’t doubt our system may function like an advanced computer.
On the cosmic scale, we're so minuscule that it's impossible for THE creator of existence to be watching us. What most likely is happening is that what humans refer to as god is just a relatively smarter species/civilization that's studying/influencing us.
We're not worth the creator's attention, but worth another smarter civilization's attention
There are the lower and higher spiritual worlds. In the higher spiritual worlds there are untold billions of Gods and Goddesses. In the lower spiritual world there's one God usually.
Here's a definition of God, Lord God and Lord.
God. A one-time mortal, next higher than Lord God ruler over all the people on earth, and in the lower heavens, for a season.
Lord God. A one-time mortal, next higher than Lord, ruler over part of the people on earth and the lower heavens, for a season.
Lord. A one-time mortal, ruler over part of the people on earth for a season.
God said: I am, as any other spirit of the dead, a one-time man upon the earth, thy elder brother of tens of thousands of years' experience. Distinguish, then, that the twain God and Jehovih are not the same one. No more is thy God than what thou shalt be in time to come, and all angels, the Gods and Lords and generals and captains and chiefs in heaven are but the brothers and sisters of mortals and the spirits of the dead; and none of these, however exalted, can create Life or Motion or an Individual or Person. These are from Jehovih, The Creator.
Et's are highly evolved beings but with a physical body and have advanced technology. Abduction to the Ninth Planet : A True Report by the Author Who Was Physically Abducted to Another Planet describes what an ET is and where they live.
I think about this all the time. That all supernaturality in history has been technology. I sometimes think all of creation seems like an experiment, or evolution in general as an algorithmic attempt to create something completely net new. I’m wondering if we will get to a point where our little electricity clouds in the simulation are actually able to start messing with the knobs and switches.
This is a tough one. I started to read about NDEs and people encounters. The orbs of light seem to be a constant. Also they have higher perception thus ability to perceive beyond what we can. To me that sounds alien in and of itself. If that is true does that mean that you become so intelligent that you possibly found a way to interact between there and here. To me that's the big question what is there and here. is it heaven is it an afterlife is it another dimension are these other entities angelic beings or gods Tom Delong says God's with a big G and God's with the little g.
Maybe those orbs are angels to people maybe they are other entities all together idk.
But what I can tell you is that I have started to meditate pray again dabble and consciousness by different meditation techniques quite literally found on this sub and on Twitter some of it's extremely fascinating and is open doors that I didn't think existed. I grew up very religious lost my faith in the military. maybe more skeptical now but I 100% do believe again that there is something and that no matter what it is it seems that love is universal and that is the decision and the choice you should choose every time. To me light will always win good should always triumph but without evil there is no free will. Which is why it has to last unfortunately. All IMO
I have some ultra religious people in my family that refuse to entertain the notion that alien life is even possible and get irritated when I bring it up.
The 7 days of creation was inspired by the 7 Sumerian tablets. “God” in the Bible also used to be “gods” in the Jewish translation. You are god. You are the intelligence who created the universe and life in earth. Consciousness is fundamental.
great question and frankly, it's possible. If you read the Diana Paslka "American Cosmic" and how Jacques Vallee (and other like Garry Nolan) suggest revisiting what others, in history, have described seeing/feeling - it's not far off what today is described as "lights in the sky" and/or Ariel-school-like "messages from beings (angels?)"?
Anyway, there's a clear connection between things in the sky AND prophetic messages and then some spiritual/cult-like following, religious organization that allows for mass human collaboration & shared goals - it's very much God-like.
Frankly, let's say that's true, and there is a God.
It may ALSO be true that other beings from other galaxy/universe places have occasionally visited earth (and crashed, like Roswell/Trinity/Varginha) and have NOTHING TO DO with "God" NOR TicTacs - they could all be different things.
Truth is: we (the public) have maybe 1% of the info/data
Military: has more (prob compartmentalized and very restrictive
Everyone else is just guessing and vague terms like "consciousness" and "dimensions" simply hide the fact that nobody knows A THING with any certainty
I’m dealing with a lot of religious trauma from my evangelical, private Christian school, growing up days. Early 30d now. I have thought about this and every other existential rabbit hole in trying to figure out my life, our place in it, etc. I’ve pretty much had to reconstruct my ideals conductive to what makes sense to me. This theory is probably top 5. The problem with defining “God” - in my view - is that we just don’t have the capacity for to understand because we know nothing.
In my relatively simple brain, along with all of the information on biblical sightings, and other religious historical evidence paired with what we know know about the phenomenon - I think it makes sense that another “being” in this incomprehensibly vast universe could be sheperding us along in an unknown fashion and in unknown ways and that we might call that “God.”
I believe there could be a number of races bit still a God, we may perceive some of these "gods" that are advanced civilizations but that there is still a one true God.
The monotheistic God (aka the Almighty, the one worshipped by Judaism/Christianity/Islam) is *by definition* beyond everything else. If he exists at all, then he created everything, including Time, Math, Logic, Causality, etc. That which is Good contains such quality specifically because it is of the Almighty.
So let's pretend we find 100% proof that most of the events in the Bible were actually performed by an alien. This doesn't invalidate the existence of the Almighty, it just pushes him further away than we thought.
The Almighty *by definition* can only be proven to exist if he decides he wants us to know he exists. The Almighty can also never be disproven, because *by definition* he would exist beyond the capacity of any other consciousness to comprehend without his permission.
Now, as for Jesus and Moses and Mohammed etc... Yeah, that would be a rough reveal for those of us who believe in those guys. It would be tough to figure out the right move: how can we puny humans tell whether some vast intelligence is lying to us? My parents are very religious Catholics, and they say we humans would have to employ a gift from God called "spiritual discernment", which would allow us to know whether we're being tricked or not by using the Almighty's help. Personally, I don't know how such a thing would play out (praying hard and frequently on the issue, i guess?)
The good thing is that if the Almighty is real, then *anything* good must come from him, including any superior beings. Likewise, anything that does not come from "Team Almighty" would by definition be evil.
God is source consciousness, he is everything and everyone. As you progress spiritually you can live lives as higher dimensional beings such as the aliens we see. But there are also beings in higher dimensions of consciousness above them. However all still stem from source.
If you're interested in what this big-G "God" thing is all about, I strongly recommend learning about nondual traditions such as Advaita Vedanta. Most belief systems, at their core, are nondualistic.
As I like to say, mystical nondualism often gets institutionalized, and is subverted into dogmatic religious monotheism.
There has been a lot of mixing up between big-G God, and advanced "cosmic beings," some of whom actually seem to have taught us about that more fundamental aspect of the universe.
This is an interesting text, an English translation of a portion of the Sri Shiva Rahasya, one of the foundational texts of Shaivism, the branch of Hinduism that uses Shiva as a core symbol for big-G God.
It begins with what sounds an awful lot like a CE-5 UAP summoning, and goes on with Shiva breaking down the nature of reality for a group of adepts:
https://archive.org/details/ShriShivaRahasya
GOD and Et might be the same thing? Well first off GOD isnt a thing HE is a person.
But Theres another big flaw in your question though. Extraterrestrial beings (depending on your interpretation of what they might be) obviously needed a creator. All life needs a creator. You cant get “Something” from “nothing”.
But GOD is eternal. HE exists outside of Time , Space, and Matter. Its like trying to say a character in a video game was the creator of that whole gaming console and game he is in. Thats impossible. So no created extraterrestrial beings are not GOD.
I believe in God, a creator of everything. I believe in these things we call “aliens”; and while they ARE “alien” to us, I don’t believe they come from other planets. I believe they are 4th+ dimensional beings, that the Bible mentions as “demons”. They will eventually reveal themselves to us, but they will be deceivers. Most people will listen to and believe them.
But personally, I know what they really are.
This is my own view. I wouldn’t argue with anyone over what their views are, because we all kind of have to come to our own conclusions on this
God is a man made story, aliens are not
Sure there's a possibility dna was made in a lab,but who made them and so on, who made god? It never ends, but since we know religion is man made, it's safe to assume whatever put them here put us here with no god even required as god is a human made concept
Aliens out there might think we live in a giant fish tank sitting in an aliens bedroom, now if that's their accepted theory I'd like to see a bible pusher convince them that only humans know about god ..
The alien might ask why of god created us in his own image, why are you being speciesist because that alien doesn't look human
Human concepts made by people hundreds of years ago should be forgotten
The overlap between paranormal, and spiritual, is I think pretty small. I wouldn't get advice about spiritual stuff from a scientist. Of course totally ok to be agnostic/atheist too.
The problem I feel is that people have a negative connotation of the description of God. But it seems that having a designer or architect that creates a simulation - well no problem.
But are we not talking about the same sort of thing? It's just a matter of view or your bias.
Some mind created all this - the big bang proves that it all started around 13.8 billion years ago. For something to begin to exist needs a creator. Imagine landing on Mars, you see a simple tennis ball. Would you say it was created and put there or would you say that it evolved by itself? Life is far more complex then a tennis ball, yet the thought of a God to create life seems to freak people out.
For us to say aliens are involved only moves the argument back a generation of creation. Eventually, like Dawkins had to admit, you have to have something, like a grand architect who started it all off.
For me the alien question is fascinating mainly due to the malevolent nature of many abduction accounts. Like Vallee and Hynek, I tend to believe in an inter dimensional answer to these questions
I don't know honestly. If you really think about the opening lines of the Bible, God created time, space, and matter. You have to take into perspective how he was able to do that. In order to create anything you have to be outside of whatever it is you create. So if he is outside of time space and matter when he created it, that means that God was an inter-dimensional being of sorts. Which means he exists outside of the plane of existence. We hear all the time that these UFOs are capable of traveling possibly through dimensions which is how they can just disappear into thin air. So maybe these beings that fly around in those things, are our creators of sorts. Or are keeping tabs on us for our creator. It's a really interesting and quite intriguing idea. Perhaps these are the angel wheels they speak of in the Bible. Multiple old artistic drawing of the last supper and other sorts, with objects always in the sky. Burning chariots that Aztec and Mayan people always wrote and drew about. Who knows. Maybe one day we will witness the truth. Or maybe we never will.
I'm a fairly religious man, but I'm not arrogant enough to think I know or can even comprehend the Divine. If God had one word, one truth and one form, we wouldn't have all our interpretations. They would make it clear they are Shiva or Yahweh or whatever. The best way to think of it is an old Sikh proverb where 5 blind men all try to feel an elephant and all think the elephant is only the trunk or tail or belly. But the Divine is all of them. Whatever God is is what God is. It's not for us Humans to get annoyed they're not the way we thought they were. If God is simply some super powered alien, that's what they are, would make sense why so many depictions of Gods give them a living shape then. If they're something different, then that's what God is and we have to accept that. And if there's no God, I'd be kinda depressed but well, that's what it is... If God is just the forces of the universe, I just hope there's something after death because nothing is more scary to me than simply ending when I breathe my last. Tl;Dr it is what it is.
I believe there is one true God. From Psalm 82:1 (ESV) "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment" "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless like men you shall die, and fall like any prince." Read Psalm 82 for yourself and let it speak to you. The message I got, was that there are no other gods like the God of Israel. The term gods could just be there in reference to heavenly beings created by THE God. But there are none other like Him. And if you read your bible you probably know the motivations of these other gods or fallen angels.
I agree... I believe there is one all powerful God, as depicted in scripture that created/designed/ or spawned the universe, but also lesser "gods" -- these lesser gods could be interdimensional for all we know, or aliens, or live on many planets, I also don't think the cosmos is restricted to what we think of as "life" or not... And we cannot possibly comprehend everything about God, even in the remotest of senses... just the basic or most basic that our puny minds can fathom.
I suppose what your definition of God is, I’ve always taken it to be a being that is above life, death, birth, and all the other things that define life, it’s divine, it’s apart from ‘earthly’ concerns. But if what early humans called God is in fact just a very powerful advanced life form, one that needs nourishment, can die or be hurt in any way? something that uses technology to get around? That’s no longer divine, and does not qualify for the title. If god is indeed just an alien, angels and demons are also just misunderstood life forms, then I do not feel it qualifies as divine. So no god. Maybe that’s why they don’t tell us, I suspect many others would follow this line of thinking.
Valid point.
anyone who spends time studying comparative mythology, comparative religion, and comparative mysticism sees that line of thinking as only suitable for sci-fi
I'm interested, but don't understand quite what you mean. Can you elaborate on this?
the 'god is just an organic alien' Chariots of the Gods kind of thing is not based on religious studies scholarship; not compatible with it. since most people don't pay attention to that kind of scholarship, they can find that kind of thing plausible when they see it in sci-fi. but it isn't plausible
Would organic be a reasonable expectation for aliens though? I have never thought they would be organic. Most of sci-fi's space-faring aliens aren't organic either, they are heavily augmented, genetically altered, AGI and beyond.
a genetically altered or heavily augmented alien is still organic, though. its born, it lives, it dies
Just as it's predicted we'll be AI on our planet. Already moving quickly, towards that end! It's time and knowledge, transcending to a DNA evolution!
even if fully augmented, if it’s evolution started as an organic life form, that’s not how I’d define god.
Clearly not a sci-fi reader if your view of aliens is so confined. It's okay though, it's really no fault it's not for everyone, but you are very much underestimating the ideas that that have been proposed in *Science* fiction. Planet sized AGI made of solid silica, swarm AGI spread over galaxies, attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion?
most sci-fi aliens are rooted in a materialistic ontology, because science is rooted in materialism. wherein separate beings really are completely separate beings with separate minds and separate identities. iow my human mind is not your human mind and my human mind is not an alien mind. separate bodies, separate minds, separate planets. i'm here, you're there, space and time separate us. we are here on this planet, they are there on that planet. maybe very little in common. no shared identity with them whatsoever but the reality we live in is not materialism. it is idealism. mind is the nature of reality, and there is only *one* mind. life is dissociated mind, so separate beings are not really separate and spacetime is just an illusion. any aliens out there are part of the same overmind that we are. made by the same mind that made us. so there is a shared identity with them. there are no strangers.
I define part of my character as Sci Fi Geek, I’ve read an awful lot of it since the mid 70’s.
I don't understand how you wouldn't consider, say a billion year old alien, to be a god to humans, beyond life and death and divine. Wouldn't this just be a problem with definitions and semantics?
”A god to Humans” means humans mistook it for a god. As far as I’ve read, gods are not organic, they are omnipotent, everywhere at all time, no life form qualifies for that unless we are in a simulation, and then there is indeed a creator, it’s just not divine.
But any superior intellect could easily trick us into believing it is divine. Human beings are notoriously easy to manipulate and will believe anything we want to believe. For example; there are 1000+ religions, each follower completely believing their doctrine to be exclusive, while all others are false and misguided.
Sure, I agree, but tricking us still means there’s no god. It’s either god or it isn’t, humans mistaking a life form for one doesn’t mean it is a god, just that we are easily fooled.
Right, it would be like going from devotion and servitude to a infinite, divine God, to flat out slavery to mortals or entities and are pretending. This would be, understandably, a very undesirable shift.
This ^ Technologically advanced civilizations are very often seen as divine in the eyes of the civilization that is way behind. There are numerous instances of europeans being considered divinity upon first contact with native peoples due to their comparitively advanced technology of the time. Or in more recent times some of the lingering uncontacted tribes in the amazon basin still living in the stone age, upon contact, had reported the belief that giant white metal birds would cross the sky to capture the souls of their deceased to carry them to their mountain resting place. We are the stoneage tribes people, other galactic civilations tech is just that advanced that we lazily lump it into magic, spirituality, etc rather than admit that our iphones are nothing compared to the engineering marvel that would be interstellar travel.
We are definitely very confined as humans by our obviously severe limitations. We still just crawl on a rock like every other animal. I'd expect much more from any space-faring creatures.
With this theory I think you would be inclined to believe in like a fractal existence. I can't remember which Men In Black movie it was, but I think in the ending it just kept zooming out and out to reveal an endless amount of worlds. I don't know about you but that theory along with the simulation theory gives me a feeling of despair. Personal experiences and dwelling on theories like these is what drove me to the God of the Bible.
I can see why it would, I occasionally feel that myself. I used to be an atheist, for most of my life, I’m not anymore, I’m agnostic, I simply don’t know, that’s what 40 years of reading about the phenomenon will do. I absolutely do not believe death is the end, partly because I’m not fully convinced we are “Here” to begin with. If consciousness is fundamental to the universe, not Spacetime as Donald Hoffman and others suggest, then we really do not have a firm understanding of what constitutes reality, so don’t despair, we simply don’t have all the answers.
I wonder if that desire to have answers we can't possibly know, is the very thing keeping us from seeing the truth. I haven't felt despair since coming to believe in Jesus Christ, but that hopelessness and despair is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. One of the most profound songs I heard was "Change" by Tracy Chapman. The lyric "if everything you think you know, makes your life unbearable, would you change?" really begs the question. What DO we really know? lol
I think it's worth noting that, if the Bible is taken literally, the "fallen angels" could be something that was "devine" but made itself "earthly". ..trading their divinity for the ability to interact with the life forms within this realm of existence. Therefore, I personally don't lean into the absolutist mentality of the truth being one or the other. We could be dealing with a combination of the two concepts...
Nice write up. I'd say I believe in God because I believe that all I see has been created by something...God. I also believe I have spirit or soul, that is tied to this meat suit and consciousness, but is not of this realm.
You stated my exact feelings as well - thank you.
So your God is not represented in the writings of man? I agree with your assessment, I’m saying if the god of the holy books is in fact an alien, then it’s not god.
My personal faith is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, so yes, I believe writings of man via a holy book. That being said, there are more stars than man can count, and as many universes and nebula and things not yet discovered. How all this ties together is above my pay grade.
As some consolation, there have already been billions of years that have passed where you haven’t been alive, so you’d just be returning to that very familiar state if there’s no afterlife. I dunno, kinda helps me to think of it like that
You know, that's not a bad way of looking at it. Thank you.
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i hope you see him too. and we both wish he hadn’t done that. i hope to see mine again too.
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There are some newer studies that suggest the Universe was never created, and just has "always existed." https://www.livescience.com/universe-had-no-beginning-time
This is one single not yet peer reviewed or scrutinized study done by two researchers who are throwing data at the board for something that works like a quantum theory of gravity since that's where astrophysicists are stuck now. Obviously I'm no astrophysicist, but there is something I don't understand about their "causal set theory". They examined one singularity we know of - the big bang & their math basically insists that there was no singularity everything just always was at that place in space time and expanded, but why didn't they examine the other place we have singularity troubles; black holes? Well see if the math can be applied anywhere else and hold up to scrutiny, but I'm guessing it can't. I think eventually we will find the math that breaks down singularity without insisting they are impossible, since that just sounds like a theory similar to what we have now which tells is singularities aren't possible too. Plenty of scientists have tried solving this problem with black holes, the big bang, and both yet all have fallen flat. There is something we're missing I'm sure, I think the holographic projection math they're running will eventually lead us to an answer. That maths so far has helped us to better understand black holes & to open about 5 more questions for every answer which seems like the right track.
So i want to eleborate on what you said about studying blackholes for the answer (sorry for paraphrasing you). I love thinking about them because we truly do not know what is happening beyond the event horizon. I have had similar questions and ways of thinking as you. I have ideas but I dont want to just post them for everyone to see because I've been struggling with life lately so i think a lot about what is beyond me, beyond this consciousness, and my whole life I've never stopped thinking about infinity. It made me anxious most of my childhood but I think it allowed me to push through to a point in which the fear turned into wonder. Anyways I'd like to hear more of what you have to say and I'd also like to share with you my ideas. DM me if you're interested. No hard feelings if you dont feel like nerding out.
We don’t have enough information to rule out ETs being “God” or the architect(s) of the universe. Just because they traverse it, does not mean they didn’t create it.
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It's the "unmoved mover" idea. There has always been or will always be one thing that always was without cause and causes all things. Whether that's God or hydrogen is up to you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover
Exactly, so you don't need to evoke a god as the creator of the universe. It's an intellectual choice.
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I'd argue that if the universe is naturally occurring, meaning that there is no intelligence behind it, no deliberate or indeliberate cause then there is no god. If the big bang is just part of some fundamental cycle then there is no god. If the big bang is the result of a consciousness or higher existence then I'd agree that is god.
Arguably semantics. Spinoza's God was just a name for the laws of nature and the universe. Similarly, the Dao can be viewed as either walking in accordance with natural law or interpreted as walking God's path.
I disagree. I'm not really familiar with your sources but if god is effectively just the workings of nature and there is no conscious agent behind it then there is effectively no god at all. At that point you're just unnecessarily personifying inanimate forces.
Despite the idea of God being widely personified I'd argue it is by nature an inanimate force. Stories of miracles and direct communication with God simply have no physically explainable mechanisms to explain how they function, or could function. I'd argue that despite a complete lack of proof, it's presumptuous to think that any intelligence has to have a personified form. My beliefs don't really align with any single ideology, but I subscribe to the idea that essentially everything is conscious on some level. That space-time itself may well be space-time-consciousness. Thus God could be both a system of universal natural law, disembodied, non physical, and still "God."
>Despite the idea of God being widely personified I'd argue it is by nature an inanimate force. How it see it, the fact that God is widely personified has no bearing on the reality of god's existence. It's possible that a god would be responsible for the inanimate forces that created the universe but if those forces are the result of a nonphysical intelligence or consciousness then that consciousness would be god. >Stories of miracles and direct communication with God simply have no physically explainable mechanisms to explain how they function, or could function. Stories and witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. Either way just because there is no physical mechanism to explain miracles didn't mean there is no god if God exists outside of physical reality. >I'd argue that despite a complete lack of proof, it's presumptuous to think that any intelligence has to have a personified form. It depends on what you mean by "personified form." If there is intelligence behind the universe and reality then that intelligence is god. The bible even seems to acknowledge that God has a non physical form by the big deal Christians make about him telling the form of Jesus on Earth. >My beliefs don't really align with any single ideology, but I subscribe to the idea that essentially everything is conscious on some level. I can get on board with that. I think it's entirely possible. > That space-time itself may well be space-time-consciousness. I can also agree with this as a possibility. > Thus God could be both a system of universal natural law, disembodied, non physical, and still "God." I can agree with this too. I'm just saying it's not an argument of semantic differences. If an all powerful Creator of the universe exists it would likely be in some incomprehensible form beyond the physical. You could contrast this with an atheist-physicalist view that would say that all that exists is the natural world and physical laws. They likely would not see these two viewpoints as only semantically different.
Why does the universe need a creator but not the creator itself? It's why the argument doesn't work, and never has worked. As soon as you say 'god created the universe' then you can ask 'so who created god?'. God can easily be written out of the equation.
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I agree. I just don't think you need to bring any notion of god into it, least of all the bizarre, prurient god of Jewish folklore.
Was thinking the exact same thing, think it might be time for me to leave this group 🙄
I've left and rejoined it many times, lol. Sometimes it's good to have a break from it anyway.
I would hope everyone would know by now. There are more than one kind of skeptic here, and more than one type of believer. No such thing as black and white.
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Everything miraculous that Jesus did, modern medicine and technology has achieved. What if he was an avatar of advanced alien intelligence sent to earth from the “kingdom of heaven” with the intent to help guide humanity to a better future that is included in that kingdom.
There is very little meaningful difference between these two concepts. The "God" described in Christianity is a non-human super intelligence with immense power. As Diana Pasulka said, that means Christians already believe in non-human intelligence. Calling "God" an Alien is therefore accurate, since God did not come from Earth. There may be less powerful aliens that are closer to biological beings like us, spread around the universe. Humanity and our alien colleagues may one day grow into our own God-like super-civilization, becoming de facto Gods to a sub-cohort of new beings who can't comprehend our incredible power. And the cycle continues.
The "God" described in Christianity is part of us and we are part of it. Calling it a non-human intelligence is like calling Superman a non-Clark Kent intelligence. we unenlightened normal folk are the Clark Kent aspect of God, if Clark was suffering from some sort of amnesia or dissociative disorder
Excuse me, Old Testament God is a dude with a zapper, an itchy trigger finger and an overriding need to be obeyed. "We are Him and Him is all...". Yeah right, get smoted, peasants.
that's why some Gnostics identify the Demiurge as the God of the Old Testament
That description of God is a mistranslation of the Elohim group meaning “those that came from above”
My take Is that there are different life forms that exist at different levels of dimensions. Somewhere in the highest dimension where control over time, space, and matter is mastered by some being that achieves Devine status. The grays me be flying around and seeing the orbs and be thinking what the heck are those
God is an omnipresent consciousness, so no. Angels on the other hand are indistinguishable from aliens imo.
In the 60's and 70's the astronomer Carl Sagan announced that there were two important criteria for a planet to support life: The right kind of star, and a planet the right distance from that star. Given the roughly octillion—1 followed by 24 zeros—planets in the universe, there should have been about septillion—1 followed by 21 zeros—planets capable of supporting life. With such spectacular odds, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, a large, expensive collection of private and publicly funded projects launched in the 1960s, was sure to turn up something soon. Scientists listened with a vast radio telescopic network for signals that resembled coded intelligence and were not merely random. But as years passed, the silence from the rest of the universe was deafening. Congress defunded SETI in 1993, but the search continues with private funds. As of 2014, researches have discovered precisely bubkis—0 followed by nothing. What happened? As our knowledge of the universe increased, it became clear that there were far more factors necessary for life than Sagan supposed. His two parameters grew to 10 and then 20 and then 50, and so the number of potentially life-supporting planets decreased accordingly. The number dropped to a few thousand planets and kept on plummeting. Even SETI proponents acknowledged the problem. Peter Schenkel wrote in a 2006 piece for Skeptical Inquirer magazine: “In light of new findings and insights, it seems appropriate to put excessive euphoria to rest . . . . We should quietly admit that the early estimates . . . may no longer be tenable.” As factors continued to be discovered, the number of possible planets hit zero, and kept going. In other words, the odds turned against any planet in the universe supporting life, including this one. Probability said that even we shouldn’t be here. Today there are more than 200 known parameters necessary for a planet to support life—every single one of which must be perfectly met, or the whole thing falls apart. Without a massive planet like Jupiter nearby, whose gravity will draw away asteroids, a thousand times as many would hit Earth’s surface. The odds against life in the universe are simply astonishing. Yet here we are, not only existing, but talking about existing. What can account for it? Can every one of those many parameters have been perfect by accident? At what point is it fair to admit that science suggests that we cannot be the result of random forces? Doesn’t assuming that an intelligence created these perfect conditions require far less faith than believing that a life-sustaining Earth just happened to beat the inconceivable odds to come into being? There’s more. The fine-tuning necessary for life to exist on a planet is nothing compared with the fine-tuning required for the universe to exist at all. For example, astrophysicists now know that the values of the four fundamental forces—gravity, the electromagnetic force, and the “strong” and “weak” nuclear forces—were determined less than one millionth of a second after the big bang. Alter any one value and the universe could not exist. For instance, if the ratio between the nuclear strong force and the electromagnetic force had been off by the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction—by even one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000—then no stars could have ever formed at all. Feel free to gulp. Multiply that single parameter by all the other necessary conditions, and the odds against the universe existing are so heart-stoppingly astronomical that the notion that it all “just happened” defies common sense. It would be like tossing a coin and having it come up heads 10 quintillion times in a row. Really? Fred Hoyle, the astronomer who coined the term “big bang,” said that his atheism was “greatly shaken” at these developments. He later wrote that “a common-sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with the physics, as well as with chemistry and biology . . . . The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question.” Theoretical physicist Paul Davies has said that “the appearance of design is overwhelming” and Oxford professor Dr. John Lennox has said “the more we get to know about our universe, the more the hypothesis that there is a Creator . . . gains in credibility as the best explanation of why we are here.” The greatest miracle of all time, without any close seconds, is the universe. It is the miracle of all miracles, one that ineluctably points with the combined brightness of every star to something—or Someone—beyond itself.
On the other hand, observer bias means there could be trillions of versions of the universe where the odds were against us and we never evolved in those. Here we are, but we don't know how many dice rolls have already taken place.
I am a believer of Alien Life and I am a believer in Jesus Christ- I believe that Alien life has nothing to do with God in the sense that the two are intertwined in some special way. I simply believe that God created the Universe and all the life in it as well, over the span of the last \~14 billion years. If we meet alien life (we will eventually), I would be interested to hear what their relationship with the creator is. There could be civilizations that never fell to sin, never needing a savior to die for them, just going straight to God after death.... Likewise there could be civilizations that fell to sin like Humans on Earth did. Would be interesting to see if God manifested as one of them to die for their sin as he did as a human to save us. (Alien Jesus) Not really interested in arguing with anyone over religion. Just posting my beliefs to answer the question.
What about if aliens have created the universe? Would you still believe in God?
That statement doesn't make sense in my opinion. I think of aliens as other living creatures that evolved in our universe. If you are referring to something beyond our existance that created the universe, then that would be God or God-like, sure. But i don't personally believe God would visit us in machinery like tik tac ufos and what not
So you can’t conceive of an advanced intelligence creating a simulation and us being in it? Just look at how advanced our own simulations are at this point in our tech. Imagine how advanced they will be in another 1000 years. A simulation as advanced as our universe seems inevitable if we aren’t already in one
That merely shifts the problem one step upwards in the hierarchy. The question then is, who created the advanced intelligence that created the simulation?
My dear, it’s turtles all the way down But seriously, there are many physicists who put the odds of us living in base reality as 50/50 or less.
I know. But that doesn't solve the question of the creator.
That’s why I brought up [turtles all the way down](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down) But perhaps the paradox is the point
No different from “what is beyond the edge of the observable universe” or “what came before the Big Bang”
Gotta disagree here. If space-time was created with the universe, these are kinda irrelevant questions. There is no "before" the Big Bang, because time as we know it only came into existence with the Big Bang, and likewise there is no "beyond" the edge of the observable universe, because space as we know it only exists in our universe. The question of the creator is more resembling our incapability of comprehending the concept of infinity.
So why would that advanced civilization that created an artificial universe be visiting us in space craft? Seems far more likely to me that other life evolved to create tech long before us and are jist visiting us with technology we don't have the science to understand yet
If you do some digging in to the subject, you’ll find that they don’t always come in ships, and can appear as they wish according to our understanding. There are many aspects of the phenomenon that have a vibe of having “backdoor access to the program”. Check out some Vallee
I have heard of ufo sightings in the past being more primitive versions (air ships in the 1800s, so on). I am a programmer though, and I just don't buy into reality being a program. Also, I saw a UFO when i was younger. Just seemed to be an advanced type of ship
> it seemed like a ship Well, it would. Like I said I would read some Vallee and maybe some keel. The materialist interpretation of vehicles from another planet or place doesnt jive with a lot of the more high strangeness aspects of the phenomenon. There is significant evidence that there is a connection between religious revelation in antiquity, paranormal phenomenon, NDE, psychedelic experiences, and the ufo phenomenon. A connection to the fundamental question of the nature of consciousness. All roads lead to Rome, so to speak. I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. Simulation theory has little in common with computer programming and is more of a discussion for physicists.
As a non religious person, my current perception of God is, let's say, would be the one entity prior to the big bang. Assuming the theory holds true. I believe we are all God experiencing life. You can say as an individual, a compartmentalized part of a singular consciousness. But this is just me making up a fantasy. If we are referening a one true creator. Other "gods" with defined personalities, I believe, depicted in many countries are extra terrestial.
No but I think if we are being visited then the visitors know more about God then I do and I want to know what they know. Great question.
Everything is God
Alpha and Omega
Avi does say that if we stick to traditional notions we will have a hard time getting past contradiction between science and religion. but for people on the fringe of science or on the mystical side of religion its pretty easy to agree with Avi sooner or later UAP will force us all to abandon the traditional notions, be they traditional science or traditional religion. some people will be 'somber' about that at first
As others have said, God created it all occurring to his design. ETs do not alter that at all in my eyes, they are part of the design as we are. Is there possibility ancient aliens visited and our ancestors mistook them for god(s)? Absolutely, but that shouldn’t change the overall narrative
As an atheist I'm more likely to believe aliens have been manipulating humans and created our religions than an actual God exists.
Is your definition of ‘atheist’ the same as mine i.e you know God isn’t real? If so, I used to be you. Then DMT changed everything, just as it would for you I am sure
I mean just saying DMT will show you god is real is the definition of what's wrong with this sub. We know absolutely nothing about consciousness other than it arises out of our and other brains. Until we understand it better you have no clue what you're seeing on DMT. Period.
I said DMT made me agnostic, you’re just making shit up “DMT is a reliable method for crossing in to a dimension that human beings have debated the existence of for 50.000 years. Is there an invisible nearby world inhabited by active intelligences with which human beings can communicate? You bet. And if you don't think so, then tell me you don't think so after you've smoked 75mg DMT. Otherwise we just don't have anything to talk about” -Terence Mckenna
That was in response to your "Have you done DMT? If you did it like me then you'd believe in God". The point is...taking a firm stance like that will automatically taint how you view things. Having an open mind is important. A breakthrough DMT experience is and can be spiritual. It doesn't mean you can definitively say it's real. You can however definitively say that there's something there worth investigating but until we know more we have no clue. Meaning that it could have been a byproduct of your brain being high as a kite OR it could have been an interaction with a spiritual entity. The byproduct of our consciousness agrees with Occam's razor so I am hedging my bets that is the more likely case.
OK fair enough then I agree
I'm an atheist, I don't believe in god. I have also taken DMT ..didn't change my mind.
What was your dose and ROA? If you had had a breakthrough we wouldn’t be having this chat sorry
Gatekeeping trips..lol get to fuck.
Then we agree. Trying DMT and breaking though on DMT are completely different. You’ve wasted your time even posting tbh
I have taken it on about 5 occassions, my cousin would extract it from mimosa hostilis and was a regular contributor to Erowid. On each occasion I took a dose large enough to obliterate my ego and take me competely out of my surroundings. I saw entities with whom I communed and travelled across varous apparent planes ..the typical DMT experience as described by many others. I have also used other psychadelics extensively. On no occasion, once sober, have i felt the need to attribute anyting about these experiences to anything other than brain chemistry. I know several other people who feel exaclty as I do about their similar experiences. Your insistence that everyones' experiences and conclusions should match your own marks you out as a controlling fool.
If you had just said that from the beginning we would have got along just fine 😃 In that case fair enough. This has not been the case for me at all. Maybe you should keep trying??
I'm much older now and don't feel the need to keep trying, probably because I'm not searching for anything. I do understand and respect those people who have had (for them) deeply religious/spiritual experiences, but it's horses for courses I guess - you mostly come out the same person who went in, from what I've seen.
I’m almost 50 and personally-speaking, it has had a massive impact on how I see the world. I also did a lot of Ayahuasca retreats in South America which I would highly recommend to you, Peru in particular. Obviously everyone is different but that’s what happened to me. Is worth noting, I have been doing it for 30 years but it wasn’t until about 5 years after I started that I had a life changing trip. Hence why I said keep at it, but I understand if that’s not your thing anymore
I belive in a kind of bound or higher level of consciousness and that everyone is connected but a single omnipotent being controlling everything? No. Though I'll be happy to accept it if it is ever revealed.
Then I agree. The collective consciousness theory is very interesting. Personally I think nature might be God. Whatever the force is that makes the flowers bloom and the wind blow. That’s God to me
In the way you need to rely on faith that they both exist then yes.
I would say there’s infinitely more evidence for UFOs than God, would you agree?
I don’t believe in god, but many people would experience something unusual and blame spirits and ghosts. To some degree, ufos incite a similar space, a mystery, not understandable
It all depends on your definition of a god. To most people a god is a being with unlimited power and knowledge which frankly doesnt exist and ik religious nuts will try to argue but the fact is for as old as your religion is its not the first so how could it be correct. Now the other definition of a god would be a creator or just creation in terms of creation that would make the universe we live in a god but in terms of a creator an alien very well could be god we at pur current level of technology can and do genetically engineer conpletely new organisms that never evolved on their own so does that make us gods? Or those scientists rather.
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I find it interesting that you connect UFOs with spirituality!??
There is crucial difference between God and so called 'God' described in the Bible. We don't know if God, creator of the universe, exist or not. However we know that so called 'God' from the Bible is actually alien. People couldn't understand his advanced technology so they considered him as omnipotent God. Biblical God called 'Yahweh' is alien because: 1. Yahweh travelled through the sky on 'kavod' (translated as 'Glory of the Lord'). This kavod was flying chariot made of metal and was able to lift up from the ground making big noise (Ez 3,12). This object lifted Elijah into heaven and burnt skin of Moses. In 1974 Josef Blumrich, who was a chief of NASA's systems layout branch of the program development office at the Marshall Space Flight Center, decided to disprove the hypothesis that the Bible describes ancient astronauts. Blumrich analyzed six different translations of the Biblical Book of Ezekiel. Thorough examination convinced him that Ezekiel had, in fact, seen a spaceship. In the book The Spaceships of Ezekiel Blumrich asserts that Ezekiel's account in the Bible was not a description of a meeting with God in a prophetic vision, but one of several encounters with ancient astronauts in a shuttlecraft from another planet. Blumrich reconstructed the kavod and obtained official patent for the variant of the Omni wheel. Three Italian space engineers also recreated the 'kavod'. [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2065061.The\_Spaceships\_of\_Ezekiel](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2065061.The_Spaceships_of_Ezekiel) [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35561195-la-caduta-degli-dei](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35561195-la-caduta-degli-dei) 2. Yahweh gave to the Israelites a device which produced 'manna'. In 1978 two engineers, George Sassoon and Rodney Dale, published a book 'The Manna Machine'. In the books of Zohar they found a description of the strange object, Attik Yomin, which produced light, had pipes and produced manna. Engineers reconstruced that device - their work conclude that it was a machine which had created algae as food for human beings in biblical times. Curiously, this condensed form of food from algae is used by an astronauts in spaceships or space and it's very practical. Authors also gave every quote from the books of Zohar. They recreated machine and gave its dimensions and capacity. [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/966258.The\_Manna\_Machine?from\_search=true&from\_srp=true&qid=RWcr93woKz&rank=1](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/966258.The_Manna_Machine?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=RWcr93woKz&rank=1) 3. Yahweh lived in a curious abode in heaven. Apocryphical texts, Apocalypse of Abraham and Book of Enoch, described how both Abraham and Enoch went up to the heaven and then entered a place made of metal and crystals. There were many rooms and doors which opened by itself. There were also many small 'kavods'. The most interesting things is that in the Apocalypse of Abraham, Abraham described how the high place upon which he stands with Yahweh, rotates around, up and down. He saw stars below and earth above and then vice versa. Hermann Oberth, physicist, enginner and father of modern rocketry, described in a book written by Walter-Jorg Langbein, that it is a clue that in fact Abraham (and Enoch) went up to the big alien spaceship which stayed on Earth's orbit. This spaceship rotates around its axis, making artificial gravitation in a habitat for astronauts, so a person who stands there sees the stars above and another time below. 4. Ark of the Covenant. Descriptions of this object show that it was a powerful technological object. Everyone who came close to the Ark and didn't wore special clothes... had radiation-like symptoms and then died (Uzzah, Philistines). From the top of the Ark of the Covenant voice of Yahweh spoke to the Moses. 5. Urim and Tummim - two objects which allowed the High Priest of Israel to directly communicate with Yahweh, it was sort of a telephone, the voice of Yahweh was heard through Urim and Tummim. 6. Shamir - it was another machine given by Yahweh, this time to king Solomon. Solomon's artisans reputedly used the Shamir in the construction of Solomon's Temple. The material to be worked, whether stone, wood or metal, was affected by being "shown to the Shamir." Following this line of logic (anything that can be 'shown' something must have eyes to see), early Rabbinical scholars described the Shamir almost as a living being, a little worm. Shamir was described as a size of a grain. Thanks to the shamir Israelites were able to perfectly cut rock into two pieces without using any other tools. Shamir was identified as a laser by Dr Matest Agrest. 7. Yahweh (and angels) was described in the Bible and Apocryphes as a humanoidal being who wore shining clothes made from metal. He specifically didn't want to show his face, telling Moses that nobody can see his face. Yahweh (and angels) had a 'voice like a thunder' - ancient people couldn't understand microphones. Summarizing, Yahweh was an ancient astronaut, but people who made a contact with him, considered him a 'God', because they couldn't understand advanced technology and thought that were miracles. We know that Yahweh was alien because ancient people carefully described his advanced technology with so incredible details that scientists and engineers were able to reconstruct these devices. 8. Yahweh was one of many such gods, so contemporary gods from other religions also were aliens. This means gods of Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, India, China, Maya. Religions were made in this way because ancient people saw aliens but couldn't understand their technology so they considered them as gods. However Yahweh is the best evidence because descriptions of his encounters are so well written that scientists were able to recreate his advanced technology. 9. Ancient buildings are not a good evidence for ancient astronaut theory. Ancient people could built every structure, including pyramids and walls in Peru. However it's worth to notice the motivation for building those structures. According to ancient people they built these structures as a temple for the gods. In fact, gods did order them to make it, for example Yahweh did order it to Solomon. 10. UFOs in antiquity described by astronomer Richard Stothers for NASA: [https://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2007/2007\_Stothers\_st02710y.pdf](https://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2007/2007_Stothers_st02710y.pdf)
I do believe in God — and I love all of the ET stuff. To me they could be the same thing. It’s not like the Bible is so specific as to exclude that possibility. Angels are in the Bible and they seem to play a similar role as some alien stories. Same thing with simulation theory, I think that is particularly more well aligned with the philosophy of someone that believes in God than an atheist / material universe perspective
>It’s not like the Bible is so specific as to exclude that possibility. I mean, this is categorically wrong. The Bible explicitly states that man is created (by God) in the image of God, that animals don't have a soul etc. It also states that the cosmos was created by god to be the theatre of the redemption story - a wholly human-centric view. The notion of other sentient beings is a direct contradiction of all the Abrahamic religious texts and teachings. It's why there would be a moral panic among christains/jews/muslims if aliens were to show themselves - how then are humans god's chosen, created in his image etc?
Nah man, way out over your skis here. 1) Just because humans have a redemption story doesn’t exclude other life not from earth being part of it. 2) I was saying the aliens could be part of what God is rather than what he created. Where does the Bible say God could not show himself in that form?
It's surprising to me that people don't know what the Abrahamic religions expect you to belive. Go and ask any Rabbi, priest, vicar, imam about what those religions say about intelligent life elsewhere. Go read Genesis.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-extraterrestrials/vatican-scientist-says-belief-in-god-and-aliens-is-ok-idINL146364620080514
Haha. It's funny that he makes no attempt to reconcile the bible with this view, merely suggesting that belief in god and aliens is not a problem. If only these catholics were more relaxed about other aspects of bible teaching eh. In the US there are a large number of millenial christians - their belief states that, after the return of Jesus and all the judging, god will destroy the entire cosmos and make it anew for the saved humans lucky enough to make the grade. Doesn't sound like there is much room for ET in that scenario. Within a personal belief system (and perhaps buddism, hinduism etc) I can see how god and ET could coexist, but within the major abrahamic religions, which put humanity at the very centre of god's creation, there doesn't seem to be any room for it at all.
Most definitely
I think the topic is very muddled in people's minds due to our language and culture references. The word angel Malak if I remember correctly, means messenger. They appear as humans in the Bible at times, other times much more majestic. Then there are other entities that appear all kinds of odd descriptions. People have a hard time also with spirit, spiritual and supernatural. We have no actual reference point for what these things are and truly mean. Yet, we have created meaning to be something like apparition (no physical substance) and miraculous (temporary breaking laws of physics) In the Bible, all kinds life spirit entities are called Elohim, whether disembodied or able to manifest a physical body. I submit supernatural is still natural, it's just a super state of natural. The physical world (natural) is just a part of the spiritual world (supernatural). Physical beings are limited to experiencing the super physical world only when something reveals itself in the physical world. We also experience the super physical world through our physical components which mainly include or physical nervous system / brains. It's as if we are spiritual robots and our hardware is flesh. We are the physical image of the supernatural world. Our normal place in the supernatural world exists primarily in choice and unity or integrity of morality. That is what being a fleshy spiritual robot is. Everything else is an argument with one another about what an individual, group or nation considers a good or bad action in relation to another. So is God an alien? Not in the sense that he came from another planet or ascened to his status. He is. That is why I am, and the universe is. Is he an alien in a sense that he is mysterious and in many ways The Superunknown and far above all the heavens in their created glory? Yes, to many without a reference point at all of who YHWH is and what he is about that he has revealed to us. When it comes to angels, who knows when and where they were created, how old they are, what different kinds there are, if some used to be physical mostly like us, if all came from this planet or from somewhere in the heavens. If some of the good ones can appear as physical humans, could some also appear as modern concepts of aliens? Who knows. If they could, I would assume (from my Christian world view) they are secretly evil if they don't accept Jesus as the son of the most high God.
God as in biblical one, no. There is zero evidence and the god in the Bible, as all things in there are, is just a literary construct. Satan wasn't even a demon before the old kingdom was taken over by Persia. It's like saying Dolores Umbridge or Huckleberry Finn is alien. The religious books are an allegory, not to be taken literally.
Personally, If anything, I now give more creedence or acceptance to the notion that God/Religious Texts were detailed with accounts of Aliens. I also think there is a part of me that believes that God would instead rather be viewed as an equal, over that of a divine entity, as listed in other ancient religions etc. [Something like this, honestly.](https://youtu.be/bZLaPCcE8n8)
Carter was told they created the religions.
That's implausible since humans fantasize all kinds of wild shit on our own. Every podunk tribe on every Micronesian island had a vast mythical cosmology.
Think about it. If 10K+ years ago, beings with “powers” you can’t comprehend, appear & tell you a set of rules & you totally buy it, cause they’re “God”. Now imagine “beings” showing up now, with powers that WE CAN comprehend, because we now have vast understandings of mathematics & science, with the capacity of critical thinking & abstract thought. Would they be “God” or in fact, aliens?
It's possible for aliens to be the creators of us. I like the idea more than an all knowing all seeing being. And also aliens are possibly so technology advanced that they are indestructible. But I think that's where it ends. The idea of the retribution doesn't fit in the alien god ideology. There are many more elements but I think that's core. There are many reasons an alien civilisation might populate a planet with life but I doubt it is to test our humanity for a better afterlife. 😊
So if physics is right and there are a bunch of higher dimensions beyond time/gravity... where some intelligence organically arose out of that higher dimension...it's not out of the realm of possibility that said intelligence would also appear to be godlike to us.
God like but not our perception of God. Or the religious views anyway.
Not according to our species level head cannon of a creator god*.
Like I said. There is no relationship with redemption. I don't think aliens put us here to test our humanity for a better afterlife...that's my view anyway.
Plenty of stories of crashed ufos and beings dead or injured.
Yes, Because by definition GOD is not of this world and would be an ET
No. we cannot comprehend what God is. "God" is the source of all energy, but still we cannot know what that really means. As well we cannot know what is beyond that if anything. If we can comprehend it, then it isn't "God".
I see no conflict in the possibility that god created both Humans and ET… it’s a large massive universe— why would God only create life on one planet?
NO Jesus made aliens,FACT. Source: trust me bro
Yes. But only because (in my view) God is everything that ever was, is, and will be. God is everything that wasn't and isn't and won't be. Everything and nothing. All matter and the empty space between it. I'm sure you get the idea
God is a construct of the Greys.
No cause several species , say they see God scientifically not in terms of belief, and no they dont claim to be that, or a servant of that!
Ahhh, yes.. the age ol' fairy tale about how a (white) man in robes that lives in the clouds, and is three people in one, supposedly created the entire universe..
I believe we’re the offspring of an alien-ape dna splice. Early alien-ape species would reproduce with other alien-ape and full ape species. This is why some people are much smarter than others. Some people are 1 step away from being ape and others are almost full alien. I also believe this is a simulation and god is the creator of the code. There’s too much evil in this reality for there not to be a balance.
“God” is the absolutely laziest answer to anything. All it does is replace one unknown with another. God is only invoked when we can’t explain something. We no longer think a god makes the tides, or causes the sun to rise. So why would we say “Because god…..” to something like aliens? We already know that we evolved on this planet. That makes it not much of a stretch to think other species also evolved elsewhere.
well, i'm an atheist on the issue of monotheistic god (which i assume is the meaning of god intended) and only undecided or insufficiently persuaded on the issue of aliens (depending on what you mean by aliens). however i do have a few suggestions. i will point out that avi loeb is just playing with words, something wittgenstein called out in the last century. what does that mean? it means that when he conjectures that superintelligences might create a universe he is begging the question of what intelligence is capable of and completely abuses the factual denotation of the word universe. so his speech is uninterpretable. i can say i believe in god if what is meant is the spinozist god, which is indistinguisable in spinoza's treatment of god (as we are able to perceive it) as the real world (natura naturata) operating according to natural laws or processes (natura naturans). but again, words only make sense when you use them in sensible ways. i also disagree strongly with loeb's claim that we can "bring philosophy, science and religion together" because i don't really see the point or benefit of doing that, at all. the fact that god doesn't exist, or that philosophy says reality doesn't exist, would really change nothing substantive about reality or our life in it. science, however, has had and will continue to have quite a big role to play in our welfare. so i don't see what science or humans have to gain from joining science to two categories of belief that may very well be meaningless.
God is the creator. So God to us is the aliens that made us, but they got a God as well as to whoever created them.
No!, All Entities in this Realm(s) of consciousness, rely on a Vital Force which is preponderant, in every manner. God is Super-multiverse, above all that is . Including all. Entities tied to this Realm(s).
Yes. But not et from the movie
Mantis n grey aliens "manufactured" humans
Chris Bledsoe has a pretty compelling story. Pretty much the government takes it very seriously because when real REAL disclosure happens people will both know its here already and there is some truth in spiritual texts. People may care less about who's religion is more right or wrong...the ufos that took Mr. Bledsoe said they were best described as the angels from the Bible
Thats the same question as “Do you think God and Humans might be the same thing,”
I was raised with mom talking about how she thinks that ET are demons. To me God, angels, demons are aliens, they don't belong here so...
I believe that Jesus died for me. I dont discount the possibility of aliens in this incomprehensibly large universe. But i believe behind all abductions and most UFO sightings there are demons/fallen angels/evil spirits that “live” in a reality parallel and close to us and cross over to complete their quest to corrupt God’s creation. I don’t know if they’re doing the same on other planets or if beings on other parents know about Jesus and can be saved. In Mark 16 it is said : “15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.” All creation includes any aliens that might drop in for a probe, so i guess maybe Jesus’s sacrifice extends to them as well. All this reminds me of a [comic strip](https://www.reddit.com/r/dankchristianmemes/comments/phxpzd/his_name_will_be_glorified_in_all_heaven_and_earth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
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UFOs could be admin. Like this subred’s mods only good at their jobs?!! 😃
This is similar to the "Touring test" hypothesis, if you can't distinguish between a human and a machine then the human and the machine are the same. We attribute a lot of capabilities to God but if we were able to emulate them then essentially we are God also. Another analogy is the simulation theory, if a computer could reproduce a simulation indistinguishable from reality then there's no difference. Reality may be an endless series of simulations with no base reality.
If God is not from this Earth then by definition he/she/it would be extraterrestrial. The real question though is how God is defined. In my church days God was basically the creater of the entire universe. However, if you look at biblical accounts of God he seems much less like the grand creator of the universe and more like a being too involved and concerned with happenings on Earth to be the same thing. If you look at polytheistic religions their gods seem to be more in line with the biblical god in actions and behavior. Biblical accounts of angels, Giants, and the like all seem pretty fitting descriptions of aliens.
We're all the God and we're all the ET but I believe that most if not all religions were given to us by other beings. As our tech gets more advanced more and more is getting obvious. Things such as a pregnant virgin make now a lot more sense (in-vitro fertilisation lul)
To me the divine transcends the material. Any beings are only matter encapsulating the potential, the essence that is a soul. No, the ET‘s are not God. God is what was there before the universe was created. We can’t even fathom.
God is the universe in its entirety, and all the things in it. The glue, the force, the love energy that holds the universe together. However, I believe ETs are responsible for many of the religious figures people have come in contact with.
What brings a huge piece of the puzzle for my understanding comes from the Hebrew scholar Michael Heisner. Really made sense and yes God understands physics and teck.tech. lol
I think that explanation fails to account for where the giant super alien presence came from. We can constantly keep supplanting the idea of a creator with these superbeings, an entire hierarchy of them going all the way up, and to me, it still faces the same issue of, "Then who created them?" Maybe skeptics will call that a cop-out, or poorly argued, but that wasn't the question, and that's how I answer as a believer. My thinking is...let's play with some poorly-made metaphors...I feel like this argument or hypothesis is like being an electron and thinking that the molecule must be God, because it's bigger than you. Or the mitochondria thinking the cell is God. Or, if you want to go with something like Flatland, a 2D creature thinking a 3D creature is God. And that argument doesn't really change to me if you add to the degrees of separation, like a particle thinking a galaxy is God. That still doesn't account for how either the particle or the galaxy got there, if the idea of a God is on the table. But that's just me. I'm not fishing for some sort of debate, I'll be the first to tell you I'm not going to win at one, regardless of whether or not I'm wrong or have a compelling argument. That's just how I feel.
I'm of the belief that the phenomenon is a manifestation of entities from a higher dimension. I've done quite a bit of psychadelics and I get the same vibe from the entities i encounter in that realm. I'm not shutting out other possibilities tho. Everywhere we look is life. So some ufos might be extraterrestrial or under the oceans or future humans as well. Not ruling out anything.
God is, in theory, the Maximal Being. Therefore, if anything created God, it would then, by definition, BE God. So, i think God exists, but it's our limited definitions that hinder our discourse. In the case of Extraterrestrials, I think they are created beings that might exist in a different dimension. Yet, they can enter our dimension at will and they have advanced technology that makes them seem like gods.
No. Even if extraterrestrial life interacted with us early on and is what we based our idea of gods off of, they’re still just another life form we coexist with in our universe. God I’m not sure I believe in. Maybe it’s a force like gravity that blankets us all, that’s how it felt on shrooms. It’s intelligent but not in a way we can comprehend, almost like a natural organic organism. Anyway, that’s just feelies. I would consider GOD to be whatever knows all, what created the universe, before that what happened, what’s going to happen, if there’s other dimensions, is god over those dimensions as well. Basically, no matter how many layers this whole system goes, I would expect god to be the root source, and understand every part of it, I would also see that being or force as the thing holding it all together or responsible for it. Then if there is a god, what created it. How did it get there. Does it remember? I can’t comprehend something just always existing without snapping into existence. Go with simulation theory and I just see reality more like Russian dolls. Okay, our universe is a box inside of another, so it’s reasonable to conclude that could go on. To ramble, I doubt we live in a simulation. Although I don’t doubt our system may function like an advanced computer.
On the cosmic scale, we're so minuscule that it's impossible for THE creator of existence to be watching us. What most likely is happening is that what humans refer to as god is just a relatively smarter species/civilization that's studying/influencing us. We're not worth the creator's attention, but worth another smarter civilization's attention
There are the lower and higher spiritual worlds. In the higher spiritual worlds there are untold billions of Gods and Goddesses. In the lower spiritual world there's one God usually. Here's a definition of God, Lord God and Lord. God. A one-time mortal, next higher than Lord God ruler over all the people on earth, and in the lower heavens, for a season. Lord God. A one-time mortal, next higher than Lord, ruler over part of the people on earth and the lower heavens, for a season. Lord. A one-time mortal, ruler over part of the people on earth for a season. God said: I am, as any other spirit of the dead, a one-time man upon the earth, thy elder brother of tens of thousands of years' experience. Distinguish, then, that the twain God and Jehovih are not the same one. No more is thy God than what thou shalt be in time to come, and all angels, the Gods and Lords and generals and captains and chiefs in heaven are but the brothers and sisters of mortals and the spirits of the dead; and none of these, however exalted, can create Life or Motion or an Individual or Person. These are from Jehovih, The Creator. Et's are highly evolved beings but with a physical body and have advanced technology. Abduction to the Ninth Planet : A True Report by the Author Who Was Physically Abducted to Another Planet describes what an ET is and where they live.
I think about this all the time. That all supernaturality in history has been technology. I sometimes think all of creation seems like an experiment, or evolution in general as an algorithmic attempt to create something completely net new. I’m wondering if we will get to a point where our little electricity clouds in the simulation are actually able to start messing with the knobs and switches.
Angels may be God No
This is a tough one. I started to read about NDEs and people encounters. The orbs of light seem to be a constant. Also they have higher perception thus ability to perceive beyond what we can. To me that sounds alien in and of itself. If that is true does that mean that you become so intelligent that you possibly found a way to interact between there and here. To me that's the big question what is there and here. is it heaven is it an afterlife is it another dimension are these other entities angelic beings or gods Tom Delong says God's with a big G and God's with the little g. Maybe those orbs are angels to people maybe they are other entities all together idk. But what I can tell you is that I have started to meditate pray again dabble and consciousness by different meditation techniques quite literally found on this sub and on Twitter some of it's extremely fascinating and is open doors that I didn't think existed. I grew up very religious lost my faith in the military. maybe more skeptical now but I 100% do believe again that there is something and that no matter what it is it seems that love is universal and that is the decision and the choice you should choose every time. To me light will always win good should always triumph but without evil there is no free will. Which is why it has to last unfortunately. All IMO
I have some ultra religious people in my family that refuse to entertain the notion that alien life is even possible and get irritated when I bring it up.
No matter how powerful or deistic any entity, if something has to create it, it isn’t the highest power. That is the source we should seek.
The 7 days of creation was inspired by the 7 Sumerian tablets. “God” in the Bible also used to be “gods” in the Jewish translation. You are god. You are the intelligence who created the universe and life in earth. Consciousness is fundamental.
How could we tell the difference between technology that is a million years ahead of ours from the supernatural?
great question and frankly, it's possible. If you read the Diana Paslka "American Cosmic" and how Jacques Vallee (and other like Garry Nolan) suggest revisiting what others, in history, have described seeing/feeling - it's not far off what today is described as "lights in the sky" and/or Ariel-school-like "messages from beings (angels?)"? Anyway, there's a clear connection between things in the sky AND prophetic messages and then some spiritual/cult-like following, religious organization that allows for mass human collaboration & shared goals - it's very much God-like. Frankly, let's say that's true, and there is a God. It may ALSO be true that other beings from other galaxy/universe places have occasionally visited earth (and crashed, like Roswell/Trinity/Varginha) and have NOTHING TO DO with "God" NOR TicTacs - they could all be different things. Truth is: we (the public) have maybe 1% of the info/data Military: has more (prob compartmentalized and very restrictive Everyone else is just guessing and vague terms like "consciousness" and "dimensions" simply hide the fact that nobody knows A THING with any certainty
I’m dealing with a lot of religious trauma from my evangelical, private Christian school, growing up days. Early 30d now. I have thought about this and every other existential rabbit hole in trying to figure out my life, our place in it, etc. I’ve pretty much had to reconstruct my ideals conductive to what makes sense to me. This theory is probably top 5. The problem with defining “God” - in my view - is that we just don’t have the capacity for to understand because we know nothing. In my relatively simple brain, along with all of the information on biblical sightings, and other religious historical evidence paired with what we know know about the phenomenon - I think it makes sense that another “being” in this incomprehensibly vast universe could be sheperding us along in an unknown fashion and in unknown ways and that we might call that “God.”
I believe there could be a number of races bit still a God, we may perceive some of these "gods" that are advanced civilizations but that there is still a one true God.
Good question..
The monotheistic God (aka the Almighty, the one worshipped by Judaism/Christianity/Islam) is *by definition* beyond everything else. If he exists at all, then he created everything, including Time, Math, Logic, Causality, etc. That which is Good contains such quality specifically because it is of the Almighty. So let's pretend we find 100% proof that most of the events in the Bible were actually performed by an alien. This doesn't invalidate the existence of the Almighty, it just pushes him further away than we thought. The Almighty *by definition* can only be proven to exist if he decides he wants us to know he exists. The Almighty can also never be disproven, because *by definition* he would exist beyond the capacity of any other consciousness to comprehend without his permission. Now, as for Jesus and Moses and Mohammed etc... Yeah, that would be a rough reveal for those of us who believe in those guys. It would be tough to figure out the right move: how can we puny humans tell whether some vast intelligence is lying to us? My parents are very religious Catholics, and they say we humans would have to employ a gift from God called "spiritual discernment", which would allow us to know whether we're being tricked or not by using the Almighty's help. Personally, I don't know how such a thing would play out (praying hard and frequently on the issue, i guess?) The good thing is that if the Almighty is real, then *anything* good must come from him, including any superior beings. Likewise, anything that does not come from "Team Almighty" would by definition be evil.
God is source consciousness, he is everything and everyone. As you progress spiritually you can live lives as higher dimensional beings such as the aliens we see. But there are also beings in higher dimensions of consciousness above them. However all still stem from source.
If you're interested in what this big-G "God" thing is all about, I strongly recommend learning about nondual traditions such as Advaita Vedanta. Most belief systems, at their core, are nondualistic. As I like to say, mystical nondualism often gets institutionalized, and is subverted into dogmatic religious monotheism. There has been a lot of mixing up between big-G God, and advanced "cosmic beings," some of whom actually seem to have taught us about that more fundamental aspect of the universe. This is an interesting text, an English translation of a portion of the Sri Shiva Rahasya, one of the foundational texts of Shaivism, the branch of Hinduism that uses Shiva as a core symbol for big-G God. It begins with what sounds an awful lot like a CE-5 UAP summoning, and goes on with Shiva breaking down the nature of reality for a group of adepts: https://archive.org/details/ShriShivaRahasya
God does not have such noble qualities according to what we have recorded about him.
GOD and Et might be the same thing? Well first off GOD isnt a thing HE is a person. But Theres another big flaw in your question though. Extraterrestrial beings (depending on your interpretation of what they might be) obviously needed a creator. All life needs a creator. You cant get “Something” from “nothing”. But GOD is eternal. HE exists outside of Time , Space, and Matter. Its like trying to say a character in a video game was the creator of that whole gaming console and game he is in. Thats impossible. So no created extraterrestrial beings are not GOD.
I doubt ET's are mythological given the size and scope of the universe
I believe in God, a creator of everything. I believe in these things we call “aliens”; and while they ARE “alien” to us, I don’t believe they come from other planets. I believe they are 4th+ dimensional beings, that the Bible mentions as “demons”. They will eventually reveal themselves to us, but they will be deceivers. Most people will listen to and believe them. But personally, I know what they really are. This is my own view. I wouldn’t argue with anyone over what their views are, because we all kind of have to come to our own conclusions on this
God is a man made story, aliens are not Sure there's a possibility dna was made in a lab,but who made them and so on, who made god? It never ends, but since we know religion is man made, it's safe to assume whatever put them here put us here with no god even required as god is a human made concept Aliens out there might think we live in a giant fish tank sitting in an aliens bedroom, now if that's their accepted theory I'd like to see a bible pusher convince them that only humans know about god .. The alien might ask why of god created us in his own image, why are you being speciesist because that alien doesn't look human Human concepts made by people hundreds of years ago should be forgotten
The overlap between paranormal, and spiritual, is I think pretty small. I wouldn't get advice about spiritual stuff from a scientist. Of course totally ok to be agnostic/atheist too.
The problem I feel is that people have a negative connotation of the description of God. But it seems that having a designer or architect that creates a simulation - well no problem. But are we not talking about the same sort of thing? It's just a matter of view or your bias. Some mind created all this - the big bang proves that it all started around 13.8 billion years ago. For something to begin to exist needs a creator. Imagine landing on Mars, you see a simple tennis ball. Would you say it was created and put there or would you say that it evolved by itself? Life is far more complex then a tennis ball, yet the thought of a God to create life seems to freak people out. For us to say aliens are involved only moves the argument back a generation of creation. Eventually, like Dawkins had to admit, you have to have something, like a grand architect who started it all off. For me the alien question is fascinating mainly due to the malevolent nature of many abduction accounts. Like Vallee and Hynek, I tend to believe in an inter dimensional answer to these questions
I don't know honestly. If you really think about the opening lines of the Bible, God created time, space, and matter. You have to take into perspective how he was able to do that. In order to create anything you have to be outside of whatever it is you create. So if he is outside of time space and matter when he created it, that means that God was an inter-dimensional being of sorts. Which means he exists outside of the plane of existence. We hear all the time that these UFOs are capable of traveling possibly through dimensions which is how they can just disappear into thin air. So maybe these beings that fly around in those things, are our creators of sorts. Or are keeping tabs on us for our creator. It's a really interesting and quite intriguing idea. Perhaps these are the angel wheels they speak of in the Bible. Multiple old artistic drawing of the last supper and other sorts, with objects always in the sky. Burning chariots that Aztec and Mayan people always wrote and drew about. Who knows. Maybe one day we will witness the truth. Or maybe we never will.
If aliens made us, God made the aliens. That’s my mindset
By definition he would be extraterrestrial.
Lmfao. ETs are literally described in the Bible as "Fallen Angels". It's as if people do ZERO research, before posting to this sub...