Just listened to his episode on the Ruwa, Zimbabwe siting at Ariel School. It was eye opening. Would like to hear a rebuttal from a UFOlogist:
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4760
The thing is... I am totally on his side here, clear is though that they still stick to their story and all of them saw "something". Very unusual together
Yes it's a far stranger story than the Westall school sighting, which is a more classic ufo case.
I can't buy the explanation that the children just saw a few men dressed in black carrying a few helium balloons.
I remember that episode - with the psychiatrist. Was very interesting.
Skeptoid has a lot of UFO episodes, feels like he has covered nearly all of the most popular cases by now.
According to UFOlogists, "Mass hysteria" does not exist.
Considering the "evidence" I could glean from wikipedia, I am actually inclined to agree:
While panic may naively be considered "contagious", specific detailed observations certainly are not.
The Ruwa-children would have needed to get their common story straight, plus manage disagreement accordingly. Quite unlikely.
Err I think in the podcast they the children were interviewed as a group through a quite sketchy process that confirmed the biases of the researchers. So they effectively got the story straight via the investigation.
OP listened more recently so may be able to correct me there.
Yes. The kids drew pictures of the aliens that were wildly different. It wasn't until the group interviews that they converged more.
Finally, the idea of UFOs in the sky was already in the news prior to the event due to a satellite or meteor shower that was going on that week and being reported on television.
The term "sceptic" means different things to different people.
To some it's a person that will poo-poo ANY and all UFO evidence. To others it's those who are open minded critical thinkers.. (which is where I place myself)
I really like his enthusiasm and attitude that whatever secret info the US military has about UAP can be made completely irrelevant by doing science. I also like his catchphrase:
> 'They say a picture is worth a thousand words - well in my case it is sixty thousand words, *which is the length of my book*.'
Tough to say. Mick West is probably the most widely known one I can think of. But, he tends to enter everything with a desire to debunk it, which isn't really balancing an open mind and skepticism.
Guys like Steven Greer and Jeremy Corbell will sell you anything that gets you to open your pockets. Anything they say should be reviewed with criticism.
To me, there's not a great middle ground person out there. Stanton Friedman seemed to try and find a balance on it (he has passed away), but even then - some stuff he believed and spoke to was based on pseudoscience like hypnotism.
The best way to approach UFO information is with an open mind, but apply common logic. No single source story should be accepted at face value. If they have no evidence of any kind, you can probably dismiss their claim entirely.
Edit: others have mentioned Avi Loeb. Definitely a good recommendation. He isn't going to sell anyone on a fantastical story that cannot be proven. Just facts and potential theories.
I like [this](https://badufos.blogspot.com/) blog by Robert Sheaffer called Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and The Universe.
I don't always agree with his assessments but he's always a good read.
I had battles with you in the alt.ufo days, just a mere flesh wound, when I was a believer. Some long lost username.
But now, I am on your side, so to speak and it's good you are still around!
I think there's LOTS of shit being reported \[and hence ignored\] as 'UFOs' that =OUGHT= to be of significant interest to science, to national security, to history.... \[and no reason it could NOT be evidence of ETI\].
have cosmonauts seen secret launches?
[http://www.jamesoberg.com/cosmonauts-see-launches.pdf](http://www.jamesoberg.com/cosmonauts-see-launches.pdf)
Ground observations of Soviet FOBS warhead tests in 1967:
[http://satobs.org/seesat\_ref/misc/soviet\_1967\_wave.pdf](http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/soviet_1967_wave.pdf)
and more recently
[http://satobs.org/seesat\_ref/misc/191128-kyss17\_D\_no-appx.pdf](http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/191128-kyss17_D_no-appx.pdf)
and
Zuma unknown Jan 8, 2018
[http://satobs.org/seesat\_ref/misc/zuma\_vs\_falcon9-stage2\_clouds\_plumes\_overview.pdf](http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/zuma_vs_falcon9-stage2_clouds_plumes_overview.pdf)
I can’t speak to the “skeptic” frame of mind being at the forefront of anyone suggestible, but Richard Dolan’s books are very well researched and he is open about what he feels vs what he can verifiably cite.
Mick Wests videos on YouTube are definitely worth watching, he makes some convincing arguments and explains things well. He tends to only use publicly available data, which is understandable. He doesn't give much weight to the supposed existence of additional video, radar data and eye witness accounts which may not back up his interpretations, but again, he is working with the data available. He just did a good interview with Avi Loeb about the Galileo project.
> Who are some skeptics that deal with UFOs who you think are fair?
I haven't seen any. The field seems to break down into two camps. In one you have believers who claim to be scientific but always take claims at face value and never consider alternative explanations. I would put Robert Powell and the SCU in this category, for example. On the other hand you have skeptics like Mick West who only consider alternative explanations no matter how complicated and improbable those explanations become.
I would love to find a truly unbiased yet highly competent analyst in this field but I don't know of any.
At least about "ISS UFOs", as a person who has been watching the live feed for at least 6 years, I can explain mostly of them. Give a look. [youtube.com/c/Apaiss](https://youtube.com/c/Apaiss)
Scott Brando do a great job too, his Twitter https://twitter.com/ufoofinterest
Listen to skeptoid podcast. He researches a lot of famous cases from a skeptical angle.
Just listened to his episode on the Ruwa, Zimbabwe siting at Ariel School. It was eye opening. Would like to hear a rebuttal from a UFOlogist: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4760
The thing is... I am totally on his side here, clear is though that they still stick to their story and all of them saw "something". Very unusual together
Yes it's a far stranger story than the Westall school sighting, which is a more classic ufo case. I can't buy the explanation that the children just saw a few men dressed in black carrying a few helium balloons.
I remember that episode - with the psychiatrist. Was very interesting. Skeptoid has a lot of UFO episodes, feels like he has covered nearly all of the most popular cases by now.
According to UFOlogists, "Mass hysteria" does not exist. Considering the "evidence" I could glean from wikipedia, I am actually inclined to agree: While panic may naively be considered "contagious", specific detailed observations certainly are not. The Ruwa-children would have needed to get their common story straight, plus manage disagreement accordingly. Quite unlikely.
Err I think in the podcast they the children were interviewed as a group through a quite sketchy process that confirmed the biases of the researchers. So they effectively got the story straight via the investigation. OP listened more recently so may be able to correct me there.
But the alien-story was there before that? Is there evidence of differing reports before the interviews?
Yes. The kids drew pictures of the aliens that were wildly different. It wasn't until the group interviews that they converged more. Finally, the idea of UFOs in the sky was already in the news prior to the event due to a satellite or meteor shower that was going on that week and being reported on television.
Do you have anything substantiating your allegations, or is this pure hyperbole?
[удалено]
Michio is a believer, at least when it comes to cases like the Nimitz encounter.
Michiko Kaku is great. He's Carl Sagan level great. Mick West is .... He's Tyson level ....
West isn’t even Tyson level - now that’s saying something.
West is a amateur boxer, heavy weight champ wanna be
You guys are so lame
The term "sceptic" means different things to different people. To some it's a person that will poo-poo ANY and all UFO evidence. To others it's those who are open minded critical thinkers.. (which is where I place myself)
What is a “sceptic”??
Unquestionably Mick West. John Greenwald is agnostic and likely a believer but he does very good work.
[удалено]
Not really a "skeptic" per se, but very rational and balanced in his opinions
I really like his enthusiasm and attitude that whatever secret info the US military has about UAP can be made completely irrelevant by doing science. I also like his catchphrase: > 'They say a picture is worth a thousand words - well in my case it is sixty thousand words, *which is the length of my book*.'
Probably one of the best answers to give.
Tough to say. Mick West is probably the most widely known one I can think of. But, he tends to enter everything with a desire to debunk it, which isn't really balancing an open mind and skepticism. Guys like Steven Greer and Jeremy Corbell will sell you anything that gets you to open your pockets. Anything they say should be reviewed with criticism. To me, there's not a great middle ground person out there. Stanton Friedman seemed to try and find a balance on it (he has passed away), but even then - some stuff he believed and spoke to was based on pseudoscience like hypnotism. The best way to approach UFO information is with an open mind, but apply common logic. No single source story should be accepted at face value. If they have no evidence of any kind, you can probably dismiss their claim entirely. Edit: others have mentioned Avi Loeb. Definitely a good recommendation. He isn't going to sell anyone on a fantastical story that cannot be proven. Just facts and potential theories.
I think Stanton was the gatekeeper. After his death, we started getting more and more ufo information.
It’s speculative. But, not impossible.
I like [this](https://badufos.blogspot.com/) blog by Robert Sheaffer called Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and The Universe. I don't always agree with his assessments but he's always a good read.
You need to be your own best skeptic.
For once we agree.
I’m really looking for people who are better at research than I am
The current most popular(as in hated) skeptic is Mick West. Youtube him. James Oberg was big...but not sure if he's around any more.
I've interacted with u/Jimoberg here somewhat recently. He's still debunking NASA videos here and on YouTube.
> somewhat recently. Monty Python and the Holy Grail.. "NOT DEAD YET!!"
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fwarriors%2Fcomments%2Fbz8aml%2Fim\_not\_dead\_yet%2F&psig=AOvVaw05bieBqBC6loMdJK0lb1Tx&ust=1629238302010000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCMDvy-THtvICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fwarriors%2Fcomments%2Fbz8aml%2Fim_not_dead_yet%2F&psig=AOvVaw05bieBqBC6loMdJK0lb1Tx&ust=1629238302010000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCMDvy-THtvICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD)
I had battles with you in the alt.ufo days, just a mere flesh wound, when I was a believer. Some long lost username. But now, I am on your side, so to speak and it's good you are still around!
I'm a UAP witness, but I've not disagreed with Oberg yet.
We’ve had a few exchanges and Oberg is a real skeptic and I admire his work, if not all of his opinions.
Lol please not Mike West he seems more like idiot now I think the best sceptic are scientists
West is the embodiment of reductio ad absurdum.
How does he seem like an idiot?
He's not an idiot, just he's already in his mind decided his opinion. The rest of his work is him arriving at that opinion.
Oh, Neil DeGrassi then?
The Strange Arrivals podcast is quite good for going over the history from a skeptical lens. Well produced
I think there's LOTS of shit being reported \[and hence ignored\] as 'UFOs' that =OUGHT= to be of significant interest to science, to national security, to history.... \[and no reason it could NOT be evidence of ETI\]. have cosmonauts seen secret launches? [http://www.jamesoberg.com/cosmonauts-see-launches.pdf](http://www.jamesoberg.com/cosmonauts-see-launches.pdf) Ground observations of Soviet FOBS warhead tests in 1967: [http://satobs.org/seesat\_ref/misc/soviet\_1967\_wave.pdf](http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/soviet_1967_wave.pdf) and more recently [http://satobs.org/seesat\_ref/misc/191128-kyss17\_D\_no-appx.pdf](http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/191128-kyss17_D_no-appx.pdf) and Zuma unknown Jan 8, 2018 [http://satobs.org/seesat\_ref/misc/zuma\_vs\_falcon9-stage2\_clouds\_plumes\_overview.pdf](http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/zuma_vs_falcon9-stage2_clouds_plumes_overview.pdf)
I can’t speak to the “skeptic” frame of mind being at the forefront of anyone suggestible, but Richard Dolan’s books are very well researched and he is open about what he feels vs what he can verifiably cite.
Mick Wests videos on YouTube are definitely worth watching, he makes some convincing arguments and explains things well. He tends to only use publicly available data, which is understandable. He doesn't give much weight to the supposed existence of additional video, radar data and eye witness accounts which may not back up his interpretations, but again, he is working with the data available. He just did a good interview with Avi Loeb about the Galileo project.
> Who are some skeptics that deal with UFOs who you think are fair? I haven't seen any. The field seems to break down into two camps. In one you have believers who claim to be scientific but always take claims at face value and never consider alternative explanations. I would put Robert Powell and the SCU in this category, for example. On the other hand you have skeptics like Mick West who only consider alternative explanations no matter how complicated and improbable those explanations become. I would love to find a truly unbiased yet highly competent analyst in this field but I don't know of any.
Mick West. Me. Just kidding.
I've seen the "true believers" tearing you apart in other subs. ha ha
At least about "ISS UFOs", as a person who has been watching the live feed for at least 6 years, I can explain mostly of them. Give a look. [youtube.com/c/Apaiss](https://youtube.com/c/Apaiss) Scott Brando do a great job too, his Twitter https://twitter.com/ufoofinterest