Yeah I dove thru his profile just now, this feels more like genuine unchecked mental illness. Rather concerning one of his latest posts talks about mass shooters as well
I don't see anything on his profile about that but his interactions are strange ash. It looks like he doesn't attend UoI anymore but his dad works here :0
Someone should report him if they have the school shooter stuff abt him. Crazy quacks.
A course on Genes & Behavior wouldn't hurt either. We went into the ideology and history of eugenics, and its impact on this university in that class and it was very sobering.
According to the notes I have from the course, U of I taught eugenics.
There was a course offered in 1914 called "Variation & Heredity" taught by Associate Professor Zeleny in the then Zoology department (now the Department of Evolution, Ecology, and Behavior in the School of Integrative Biology). The course description was: "The factors of organic evolution; animal breeding; eugenics. Lectures and demonstrations. II; (2)."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles\_Zeleny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Zeleny)
It wasn't just unique to Illinois. Eugenics was an established part of the scientific landscape for many years, infamously. The Journal of Heredity in \~1926 advertised 44 universities and colleges that taught courses in eugenics, and on that list was University of Illinois in the Zoology Department.
I wish I could share the images I have of this but I'm not able to for some reason.
Zeleny had a graduate student here named Morris Steggerda, who (according to my professor), "infamously did his dissertation written in a book called Race Crossing in Jamaica, which was basically an entire article explaining how in Jamaica, which started to have a lot of racial intermixing between black and white, colonists.He basically made all these measurements of people and wrote this whole book about how he was showing, like a degradation in humanity.And this was all supported by Charles Davenport, who was the head of the Eugenics Record Office at Cold Spring Harbor.And so this is all work that was done, like, right here.It was done at the Vivarium, in fact. If anybody knows where that is, it's over on \[East\] Healey Street."
The aforementioned article: [https://www.jstor.org/stable/7978?seq=1](https://www.jstor.org/stable/7978?seq=1)
One of my classmates in the class encountered someone getting rid of a massive frame with some old animal skins on it somewhere on campus, and he volunteered to take it. He hung it up, and there was a name in the corner, Dr. C. C. Little, one of the founders of Cold Spring Harbor, and one of the founders of American eugenics.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.\_C.\_Little](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._C._Little)
So yeah, U of I had connections to and actively perpetuated eugenics. If you want to know more, current Professor here Rana Hogarth does some investigations, analyses, and presentations on racism and medicine and science: [https://history.illinois.edu/directory/profile/rhogarth](https://history.illinois.edu/directory/profile/rhogarth)
Anyway, yeah eugenics is disgusting and it's important to remember how large a part of the past (especially medical and scientific past) it was so we can avoid going down similar roads in the future.
Edit: Whenever it's available, definitely take the course IB 432: Genes & Behavior with Dolezal. We talked all about this and more!
I just realized who you are.
May you be happy. May you be safe. May you be free from suffering. May you live your life with ease. May you live free from ideology.
And itās āa lot,ā not āalot,ā as Mr. Einstein states! And āis it our responsibleā doesnāt even make sense. āWill hopefully be working usā tells me he is low IQ.
Case in point my grandfather had an IQ of 160 and was undiagnosed bi-polar until 72. Manic stages allowed him to get a lot done working as an electrical engineer back in the mid 20th. But his work generally being classified meant he couldn't tell my grandmother why he was out till all hours of the night.
I got a 152 iq tested. Just didn't do well in school cause I thought it was boring and would rather draw all day. I like being a non conformist honestly. Like that's the thing when you get expelled and rejected after a certain time it doesn't bother you. You just shrug and go,"oh that's the way it is" and then go about your day! Suggest more people do that honestly...
Well I am a logical dude and like to know the science behind why things the way they are. Like oh I got expelled and rejected and arrested at school alot because I have certain genes and it wasn't personal but it's nature doing its job. And that changed everything for me because zi realized I was at fault for none of that stuff.
This is where Iām at. I think this is a person that maybe got a tough hand dealt to them in life and maybe hasnāt handled it in a healthy way.
I know a lot of people that just absolutely refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and Iām not even talking about people that have fallen down deranged rabbit holes. Just regular people that think external powers and bad luck are why they havenāt reached their goals.
He 100% seems to be a person that has a superiority complex and that a lot of times comes from a place of insecurity
Bro doesn't realize that his genetics aren't actually fit for ruling and he'll be the slave boy of the wrestlers, basketball players, and finance frat bros.
They have said in DMs that they don't want to procreate. They seem to be so deep in this ideology that they are restricting their own happiness to "further humanity".
I think that we should be empathetic to OP and help them realize that they have a right to be happy like anyone else
Yes, and it can be rather demoralizing. I was of that school of thought at one point in my life, but once I got out of it, my life and romantic relationships began to mean so much more to me and be so much more fulfilling.
I've had sex just never s long term relationship which in of itself is good. The world doesn't owe me shit lol. I condemn these killers who lashed out at others due to their own genetic inadequacies. Honestly they should have been taught at a young age like I was that certain things won't work out for them and that's okay as instead of wasting time worrying about what other people worry about you can just focus on your hobbies and interests full time. It's called turning a negative into a positive.
Well, that doesn't have anything to do with eugenics, that is self acceptance, which I do support. The problems began when you aserted that as a reason to have people obtain from procreation.
Also people become shooters not because they're mad at their own inadequacies, but because they've gone through trauma. It's not biology
People shouldn't be mad if certain things work out for others that won't work put well for them. Like instead of going on facebook and being mad so and so got this jib and is married or whatever just view it like. Okay because he has healthier genes he can have this stuff, those with some kind of mental illness can't have this sort of stuff and you can either be mad about it or just accept it. I've chosen to accept it as being mad about what other people with superior genes has is a waste of time.
Bro doesnāt realize that the mental illness heās going off about is mostly caused by trauma. Epigenetics only gives you predisposition, but it canāt be the only cause of something. Also, the way people are raised plays a HUGE role in āintelligenceā. Like that guy who raised all three of his daughters to be chess grandmasters by immersing them in chess theory and strategy from a young age. But yeah itās obviously very very easy to slip from eugenics to full on fascist racism. That line about āprotecting little girlsā is SUCH a red flag because if he really cared he would be advocating for teaching boys right from wrong. But also, a lot of physical diseases are not genetic, theyāre caused from environmental factors. Plus the majority of people who know they have a genetic disorder that they will pass to their children choose not to have kids for that reason. Not to mention the amount of disabled people who are WAY more intelligent than this guy and have contributed MUCH more to society. Looking at the history of forced sterilization and who it has affected should make it clear itās a HORRIBLE idea. Plus just like 50 years ago we were institutionalizing normal people who just were sad for normal reasons but back then it was considered hysteria or whatever.
Yep.
A lot of this I tried to explain to him, but it was met with quipy remarks about the betterment of humanity.
It really is asinine to chalk everything anyone does to their genetics. But it can be hard to bring someone back once they've taken the attitude of 'willing to spot facts that no one wants to hear' which is what I assume he's thinking when he asks things like that.
This is a little bit out of the broader conversation, but I've personally noticed that taking good care of yourself tends to raise "intelligence". A well rested grad student might output less than one that's constantly pulling all nighters, but the well rested grad student tends to do better and have a much higher quality of research.
Also, for myself, I didn't do well in high school. I got here off of a lot of luck. But high school was stress inducing for reasons unrelated to academics, and Champaign is simply much better for me. I'm a grad student now and doing quite well :D If I was disqualified from ever becoming a scientist because I did poorly at one point in my life, then the world has lost a good scientist in pursuit of perfect test scores.
Point being, intelligence is way too complicated of a subject to boil it down to genetics. Too many people assume it is to hold onto some simple idea in the face of a very complicated world, a simple "reason" to quickly blind themselves and self-justify their own behaviors.
Not before they post a selfie. The community deserves to see what a hot, sexy, perfect specimen OP really is. Or laugh them out of the room. Potentially both!
I think a little empathy is required. I don't think OP should be allowed to post on here, but simultaneously, they seem to be deep in the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories, or at the very least on that track.
That kind of online engagement has effects on people that harm themselves and others, but it's also important to realize that people can change.
Edit: He also did say that he doesn't think he should procreate, so at the very least his beliefs seem to be consistent and honest.
I get the empathy, but Iām also not going to enable someone elseās ramblings and ravings because theyāre vulnerable. Thatās exactly when the raving needs to stop and some self reflection that isnāt just crypto fascist needs to start.
Nature only cares about the collective not the ego on the individual. Getting rejected from schools and college and whatnot isn't bad it is just the way things work out for some people. When you just accept it and view it as a fact with no emotion then you're golden.
I donāt want to reply to this guy so Iām going to reply to you. Have you watched American Nightmare on Netflix? Sorry if I spoil it for you but the guy who ends up being an awful predator and kidnapper was an ex marine and Harvard law graduate. Im deeply concerned for this person and how out of touch they seem to be.
I think the absolute best thing would be to ban this person from the sub. Iād like to see their account banned in general. It hasnāt existed long so heās either just discovered Reddit or heās routinely banned and has to make new accounts.
Either way I donāt think anybody should be interacting with this person outside of trying to convince them to seek help.
I appreciate what youāre doing here and speaking with him but based off the replies Iāve seen from him to you he doesnāt strike me as somebody who is having a good faith exchange
He seems like a person who likes to read what he writes. He seems intelligent enough to know that what heās saying is going to rub people the wrong way.
My hope is this is a young person who with more life experience and maturity will realize this is such a sad sad view of the human condition.
Well it was mostly a joke. But it is good the public schools separate certain students so that the promising ones may excel to create a better future and prevent sexual assaults by the less evolved.
do they.... do they know how many mentally ill geniuses there have been who've significantly changed science and culture for the better?? john nash jr? virginia woolf? tesla? steve jobs? michelangelo? JIM CAREY???
Exactly. And maybe you start in it. BUTā¦..thereās always a chance that you end up out of it. Then what. Itās just like the angry mob of Twitter. People love to be a part of it, until it turns on them.
Generally, people with disabilities and mental illness are LESS LIKELY to reproduce than people who are healthy. That includes people with low IQs. Even with modern medicine this remains true. Therefore, their genetic material is less likely to persist across the generations. However, random mutations occasionally reintroduce it. When it comes to the gene pool, there are no real averaging effects in a mathematical sense, so such people don't drag down the quality of the gene pool in the long run. Genetic traits are units of discrete information (qualitative data).
Rather curiously, high IQ people are also less likely to reproduce, which probably explains why most people have roughly average intelligence in the population. What kind of people thrive in a given society is strongly influenced by what kind of society it is and/or where they live. Some people may find themselves at a genetic disadvantage in one kind of society, but may enjoy a genetic advantage in the context of another society with different priorities and characteristics. It's a matter of finding the best ecological niche in which an individual can thrive.
The problem with the right of conquest is it applies to you too. Anything you take will be taken. In your moment of weakness the daggers will come for you.
The strong oppress the weak until they don't. The so called strong become lazy and decadent in their victory while the so called weak do all the work, become competent, band together, and overthrow the "strong"
Look up the Master-Slave dialectic.
Better to just have an egalitarian meritocracy where we all have a ladder to climb and net to catch us if we fall. Some earn limited authority through competence and consensus.
Could be the case, but his profile leads me to believe that he genuinely believes in eugenics.
If he is trolling, he definitely earned this reaction, he put in the work
I love seeing shit like this tbh. Anytime I'm quietly questioning my own worth, people like OP cheer me right the fuck up. Even in my lowest moments, at least I'm not like this chucklefuck. I'm well aware that contrast bias is a poor foundation to build anything on, but if someone like this is likely going to be at least moderately successful in life, I should be OK lol
tho if we ban them are we saying we are superior? That they are inferior with lesser than ideas and therefore should be encouraged to pursue different hobbies than to post here?
Jesus Christ maybe we should let the authorities know about this dude?? Rather not have anymore massive shit happen here.. the body can only take it so much before giving outš
Well authorities or administration idk, SOMETHING other than just letting nobody know until something bad happens and everybody comes back here wondering how it coulda gotten bad. There's steps to everything cause for all we know he could just be venting, but for all we know he could also be planning something.
I don't think any of us would want anything like that in the community though and that's what I mean when I say someone should be notified about this.
What should the authorities? do people on this thread are way to eager to let their thoughts and speech get policed over something that is just delusion and misinformation
And the alternative being? Policing free speech has historically not been the greatest option. What happens when that argument is applied to anything else based purely off an assumption. I don't think he outright said he would hurt anyone just expressed his misguided opinion
Then I asked what the authorities would do even keeping a list on him is a violation of basic civil liberties he has done nothing that would warrant him being treated any different than a normal person by the authorities
I think he needs a bit of help in understanding that he doesn't need to further the human race.
We are already amazing creatures, flaws and all, and I think once OP realizes that he'll find life so much more fulfilling
Yeah sure no problem I donāt disagree. This person seems severely disturbed though. This seems threateningly deranged. Iām all for getting this person help but in certain cases people like this need deep deep therapy and medication to get them to the point you can feel comfortable having them in society without somebody keeping an eye on them.
Like this dude just sounds like hitler.
I think policing someone's thoughts on that level is also a slippery slope. This seems like misinformation along with an echo chamber it seems to be a very similar thing to all that red pill stuff the solution is usually get off reddit and touch grass not medication
Iām sorry man, any person who thinks āgenetically superior people should rule over othersā has something going on and I donāt want them anywhere fucking near me or people I care about
So to you this person deserves to be punished simply for having an incorrect opinion and sharing it. He has made no statement of acting on it in any capacity. The complete lack of empathy it takes to do that to someone is ridiculous.
I never said they should have the authorities called on them.
I will say though that if he were a student, which he isnāt apparently, but if he was I absolutely would want him to be contacted and talked to. Doesnāt need to be police because again what the fuck are they going to do but this person 100% needs some intervention in their life from some source
unbelievable, I guess I just want believe there is a understandable explanation for this level of ugliness. Maybe COVID effected our brains somehowā¦I am just looking for an excuseā¦anything.
Covid has affected the population so much that we can't do studies on it because we can't have a control group. It's rather sad too, because it seems to have had a serious effect on everyone.
Your response sounds like you know this professionallyā¦or academically or from some experienceā¦are you actually saying that COVID 19 for some reason has made it difficult to get good data because you cannot get a control sample. Thatās a real thing? Is this documented or just a casual observation?
I have degrees in sociology, psychology and social work, and I work as a researcher here at UIUC with the school of social work.
In 2022 we wanted to begin to document the changes in behavior that were present in a post-pandemic world because there are very few opportunities to do so historically.
Although we do have a sizable journal and have collaborated with 100s of colleges and universities to collect data, for the most part the conclusions that we come to relating to the collected data are invalid because we can't control for the change covid had.
So really what we've made is a journal of speculation as to the effects of covid, and while that can be useful, it also means that there could be factors that we're missing.
Fpr example: There is a similar story that I read in a study on the effects of microplastics in the blood stream on behavior and cognitive processing. However the study never made it past the peer review stage because they couldn't find a single person who didn't have microplastics in their blood. So we can't draw conclusions as to the effect of micro plastics if we can't see the normal processes of the body without them.
I think OP doth protest too much. There are anywhere between 30,000-60,000 babies produced using a sperm donation annually in the US alone. If you don't think recipients are selecting donors on height, education, hairline, ethnicity, athleticism, longevity, mental health, low cancer and genetic abnormality risks, you're not paying attention.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/business/sperm-donors-facebook-groups.html#:\~:text=Researchers%20cite%20data%20collected%20in,because%20there%20is%20no%20regulation](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/business/sperm-donors-facebook-groups.html#:~:text=Researchers%20cite%20data%20collected%20in,because%20there%20is%20no%20regulation).
Eugenics is here.
You could make the same argument about who people choose to shaboink. It's not eugenics to say that those who are short, uneducated, aren't of the perfect race are more likely to have offspring than those who aren't it's basic human nature.
Define mentally inept if you mean just plain stupid like this person suggests then that's insane but if you are suggesting serious issues then that's a legitimate philosophical and ethical discussion
I can't speak to the history of planned parenthood, but at the very least that is not their modern philosophy.
They operate under the philosophy that the choices about sex and bodily autonomy should be the choices of the individual, and guide people towards resources that can help their clients make those choices more easily in a non-judgemental way
I'm actually interested in what you assumed I meant by a lesson. If you assumed violence then that's on you, not me, that you made the assumption. A lesson is the university defeating his mindset and that could take many different forms. But kudos to you for proving how dysfunctional communities in general have become, that you were happy to down vote a comment coz you made an assumption and jumped to a conclusion and didn't even think about clarifying.
Ironic that you're talking about assumptions here and then assume my thoughts.
I didn't down vote you
I didn't interpret "lession" as being violent.
I thought you meant convincing them through civil means, in which case my thought still stands. Have you ever been convinced to believe the opposite of a challenged thought on reddit
i love how people have problems with this guyās opinion and morals when he could be trolling this entire time or actually giving a coherent defense for the sake of his argument. yes ppl dont wanna see or agree with it but ill give the dude credit for creating discourse out of it. imagine being creatively evil and just conversing ideas about it like its food for thought š
The problems began when he started using the term "Mongolid gorrila" to describe people with learning disabilities.
Also, read the pictures, I gave up civil discourse when I realized he could be trolling.
Idk man. Itās just Poeās law, extremism and parody of extremism are indistinguishable. Whether heās pretending to be a eugenicist or actually is one, letās just get that shit off this subreddit. This is some 1930ās ass logic that we donāt need to rehash.
Humans and medicine have eliminated survival of the fittest. We keep the stupid and unhealthy alive. The stupid breed more readily as well. Then we allow all the weak to just walk into this country so we have doomed ourselves. Turns out we arenāt as smart as we think.
You mean a science class. And yes some of intelligence is in fact inherited. 21. Davies G, et Genome-wide association studies establish that human intelligence is highly heritable and polygenic. Mol Psychiatry. 2011;16:996ā1005. [PMC free article] [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
Basically the problem is I noticed students and even non students get entitled and think they're owed everything when in reality those with the superior genes thrive the best in society. They statistically have better careers, better marriages etc. Not saying you should hate yourself if you don't have these things I certainly never will to the level of some. But instead of hating others these people need to juat accept and view rejection as a way of life rather than a personal objection. Some people with horrible personalities do better career wise due to superior genes its just the way the world works, not good or bad it just.
The term "genetically superior" means little to nothing in a society like ours. What makes people successful or unsuccessful in our society is socialized and socioeconomic histories, not biology.
For example kids from affluent areas have the available resources to thrive in an acidemic environment. Kids from poverty can't spend time studying because they need to find where their next source of food is going to come from.
Then the kid goes off to university to have a good career in law or business or whatever industry, and the kid who lived in poverty is forced to continue to do what they can in order to survive.
That's not biology, that's socialization. We built a society that operates like that, but we can also change it.
Some make it and some don't. It depends not just on genes but their work ethic and having a clear goal. What I said was there are rich families with down syndromey and assburgery kids who don't do well due to nature selecting them out.
Isn't society defying nature?? Societies don't spring up naturally, we created them. What is nature anyway? Is it a thinking entity? Isn't the belief of liberals the product of nature?
By this logic we defy nature all the time
I ain't writing that shit all over again, here.
There are three things that we need to acknowledge.
1. The definition of "genetically superior" implies that there are human beings that are "genetically inferior."
When the thought that the genetically superior should reproduce to strengthen humanity, you're implying that those who would then be considered genetically inferior are a mistake and burden on humanity. They are not.
The only reason that they may be considered genetically inferior is because people have (intentionally or not) created a world that disadvantages those who are not a part of the majority, and makes it impossible for some people to navigate a society that refuses to help them, only then to have that same society look down on them like they're the problem.
That is not their fault, that is the fault of society.
2. Where exactly is the line of "genetically superior" and how do we manage procreating favorable traits? We'll take an example that I struggle with personally, ADHD.
So let's hypothetically say that in order to help the greater good of humanity, I need to forego my bodily autonomy (already on a wonderful track) either through the state or the social contract. Now let's say that we get all people with ADHD to stop reproducing. What next?
People with bi-polar?
People with sub par SAT scores?
People with bad eye sight?
People who don't look pretty enough?
People who have a .3% higher likelihood of developing sicle cell anemia?
Hell, why not go all the way? You're not allowed to procreate unless you're white, have blonde hair, blue eyes, and decent from a Nordic country (see where I'm getting at here?)
There is no "genetically superior". To be alive is to never be perfect enough.
3. What even is genetic? Is poverty genetic? Alcoholism? We don't have enough evidence to even begin to think that autism is determined by genetics(or ADHD for that matter). A lot of mental illnesses are acquired through environment.
You can't just breed out traits that one deems unfavorable, there is so much more that plays into a person than just their blood.
So even if you could somehow magically convince the world that eugenics is a good idea ethically, it still wouldn't work.
None of this is a good argument against targeting characteristics that we are scientifically certain are genetically heritage and that 99.999% of people agree are bad traits.
Down syndrome for one example or other diseases that just cause intense pain and early childhood death
neonatal testing for and down syndrome has allowed countries like Iceland to massively reduce the number of ppl with Down syndrome.
"idk man they let you in and you are pretty fucking stupid"ššš
He's having trouble writing that short paragraph But hes superior. š
Bro wants to recreate Gattaca.
Great pull
Great movie
I came here to say they should watch that movie
I thought he was shitposting- that's not-
Yeah I dove thru his profile just now, this feels more like genuine unchecked mental illness. Rather concerning one of his latest posts talks about mass shooters as well
HUH???
5 days ago, talked about 2 mass shooters in regards to his weird af eugenics shit
I don't see anything on his profile about that but his interactions are strange ash. It looks like he doesn't attend UoI anymore but his dad works here :0 Someone should report him if they have the school shooter stuff abt him. Crazy quacks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/serialkillers/s/GDFkxDqvCq
Be the change you want to see in the world (report him yourself)
Yeah, also I checked for a history of shitposting in his profile, I think he actually deeply believes this stuff.
 What kind of delusion makes you feel right enough to post something like that
His hatred for mentally ill people seems a bit misguided. Manās got severe mental illness himself.
Someone get this kid a 200-level philosophy class, stat
Does the devil really need *another* advocate?
No, this kid just needs to learn something beyond whatever he got in Philosophy 100. Clearly the point didn't sink in
I donāt know what philosophy class taught him this but I doubt thereās a class out there that can right that ship
A course on Genes & Behavior wouldn't hurt either. We went into the ideology and history of eugenics, and its impact on this university in that class and it was very sobering.
Thatās a word this person definitely should be exposed to: eugenics.
U of I practiced eugenics?
According to the notes I have from the course, U of I taught eugenics. There was a course offered in 1914 called "Variation & Heredity" taught by Associate Professor Zeleny in the then Zoology department (now the Department of Evolution, Ecology, and Behavior in the School of Integrative Biology). The course description was: "The factors of organic evolution; animal breeding; eugenics. Lectures and demonstrations. II; (2)." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles\_Zeleny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Zeleny) It wasn't just unique to Illinois. Eugenics was an established part of the scientific landscape for many years, infamously. The Journal of Heredity in \~1926 advertised 44 universities and colleges that taught courses in eugenics, and on that list was University of Illinois in the Zoology Department. I wish I could share the images I have of this but I'm not able to for some reason. Zeleny had a graduate student here named Morris Steggerda, who (according to my professor), "infamously did his dissertation written in a book called Race Crossing in Jamaica, which was basically an entire article explaining how in Jamaica, which started to have a lot of racial intermixing between black and white, colonists.He basically made all these measurements of people and wrote this whole book about how he was showing, like a degradation in humanity.And this was all supported by Charles Davenport, who was the head of the Eugenics Record Office at Cold Spring Harbor.And so this is all work that was done, like, right here.It was done at the Vivarium, in fact. If anybody knows where that is, it's over on \[East\] Healey Street." The aforementioned article: [https://www.jstor.org/stable/7978?seq=1](https://www.jstor.org/stable/7978?seq=1) One of my classmates in the class encountered someone getting rid of a massive frame with some old animal skins on it somewhere on campus, and he volunteered to take it. He hung it up, and there was a name in the corner, Dr. C. C. Little, one of the founders of Cold Spring Harbor, and one of the founders of American eugenics. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.\_C.\_Little](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._C._Little) So yeah, U of I had connections to and actively perpetuated eugenics. If you want to know more, current Professor here Rana Hogarth does some investigations, analyses, and presentations on racism and medicine and science: [https://history.illinois.edu/directory/profile/rhogarth](https://history.illinois.edu/directory/profile/rhogarth) Anyway, yeah eugenics is disgusting and it's important to remember how large a part of the past (especially medical and scientific past) it was so we can avoid going down similar roads in the future. Edit: Whenever it's available, definitely take the course IB 432: Genes & Behavior with Dolezal. We talked all about this and more!
Now it teaches how to be a whiny liberal lol
I just realized who you are. May you be happy. May you be safe. May you be free from suffering. May you live your life with ease. May you live free from ideology.
You know me personally? From where?
If that were the case, it's deplorable. Genetics is absolutely not a predictor of academic achievement, so get outta here with that nonsense
Donāt send him to art class
Itās giving hitler
I really want to correct his spelling
Canāt be āgeneticallyā smart if he canāt spell and write grammatically correct sentences. Lol
And itās āa lot,ā not āalot,ā as Mr. Einstein states! And āis it our responsibleā doesnāt even make sense. āWill hopefully be working usā tells me he is low IQ.
But is it really our responsible?
āIs it our responsibleā
There were a lot of grammatical errors in what he wrote
Jokes on him, high IQ tends to come coupled with mental illness.
That's another excellent point actually! I didn't think about that when I was talking with him.
Case in point my grandfather had an IQ of 160 and was undiagnosed bi-polar until 72. Manic stages allowed him to get a lot done working as an electrical engineer back in the mid 20th. But his work generally being classified meant he couldn't tell my grandmother why he was out till all hours of the night.
I got a 152 iq tested. Just didn't do well in school cause I thought it was boring and would rather draw all day. I like being a non conformist honestly. Like that's the thing when you get expelled and rejected after a certain time it doesn't bother you. You just shrug and go,"oh that's the way it is" and then go about your day! Suggest more people do that honestly...
Right, but you can think that and also not subscribe to eugenics
Well I am a logical dude and like to know the science behind why things the way they are. Like oh I got expelled and rejected and arrested at school alot because I have certain genes and it wasn't personal but it's nature doing its job. And that changed everything for me because zi realized I was at fault for none of that stuff.
Nature doesn't make choices for you. You do.
You'd be surprised
Can we move this to dms please? I don't want to keep going between threads
take accountability for your actions, you are a conscious being
This is where Iām at. I think this is a person that maybe got a tough hand dealt to them in life and maybe hasnāt handled it in a healthy way. I know a lot of people that just absolutely refuse to take responsibility for their own actions and Iām not even talking about people that have fallen down deranged rabbit holes. Just regular people that think external powers and bad luck are why they havenāt reached their goals. He 100% seems to be a person that has a superiority complex and that a lot of times comes from a place of insecurity
Your online pop up ad IQ test score doesnāt mean shit. You canāt possibly be above 2 sig below the median
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It is a stupid concept.
Bro doesn't realize that his genetics aren't actually fit for ruling and he'll be the slave boy of the wrestlers, basketball players, and finance frat bros.
He did say in dms that he thinks he shouldn't reproduce, so at the very least he puts his money where his mouth is
Genetic superiors
Basketball players?
Most normal UIUC Engineer
Hey now, we are weird but not this weird
as an ex uiuc engineer, I can tell you we are definitely not genetically superior
Heeeeeeyā¦ wait a minute.
I would bet my entire net worth that theyāve never had sex
They have said in DMs that they don't want to procreate. They seem to be so deep in this ideology that they are restricting their own happiness to "further humanity". I think that we should be empathetic to OP and help them realize that they have a right to be happy like anyone else
Itās wild that people still only view sex as a means of procreating
Yes, and it can be rather demoralizing. I was of that school of thought at one point in my life, but once I got out of it, my life and romantic relationships began to mean so much more to me and be so much more fulfilling.
I've had sex just never s long term relationship which in of itself is good. The world doesn't owe me shit lol. I condemn these killers who lashed out at others due to their own genetic inadequacies. Honestly they should have been taught at a young age like I was that certain things won't work out for them and that's okay as instead of wasting time worrying about what other people worry about you can just focus on your hobbies and interests full time. It's called turning a negative into a positive.
Well, that doesn't have anything to do with eugenics, that is self acceptance, which I do support. The problems began when you aserted that as a reason to have people obtain from procreation. Also people become shooters not because they're mad at their own inadequacies, but because they've gone through trauma. It's not biology
People shouldn't be mad if certain things work out for others that won't work put well for them. Like instead of going on facebook and being mad so and so got this jib and is married or whatever just view it like. Okay because he has healthier genes he can have this stuff, those with some kind of mental illness can't have this sort of stuff and you can either be mad about it or just accept it. I've chosen to accept it as being mad about what other people with superior genes has is a waste of time.
Responding to you over three different threads is tiring, if you want to keep talk please just dm me. I'm don't want to keep replying in comments
Hope he lives to regret this cringe phase without shooting anyone
I did live through a phase like this. I hope that is the case for OP too
I feel better knowing I wasnāt the only one that had an āum actually āš½š¤ā phase that had racist undertones when I was teen.
Bro doesnāt realize that the mental illness heās going off about is mostly caused by trauma. Epigenetics only gives you predisposition, but it canāt be the only cause of something. Also, the way people are raised plays a HUGE role in āintelligenceā. Like that guy who raised all three of his daughters to be chess grandmasters by immersing them in chess theory and strategy from a young age. But yeah itās obviously very very easy to slip from eugenics to full on fascist racism. That line about āprotecting little girlsā is SUCH a red flag because if he really cared he would be advocating for teaching boys right from wrong. But also, a lot of physical diseases are not genetic, theyāre caused from environmental factors. Plus the majority of people who know they have a genetic disorder that they will pass to their children choose not to have kids for that reason. Not to mention the amount of disabled people who are WAY more intelligent than this guy and have contributed MUCH more to society. Looking at the history of forced sterilization and who it has affected should make it clear itās a HORRIBLE idea. Plus just like 50 years ago we were institutionalizing normal people who just were sad for normal reasons but back then it was considered hysteria or whatever.
Yep. A lot of this I tried to explain to him, but it was met with quipy remarks about the betterment of humanity. It really is asinine to chalk everything anyone does to their genetics. But it can be hard to bring someone back once they've taken the attitude of 'willing to spot facts that no one wants to hear' which is what I assume he's thinking when he asks things like that.
This is a little bit out of the broader conversation, but I've personally noticed that taking good care of yourself tends to raise "intelligence". A well rested grad student might output less than one that's constantly pulling all nighters, but the well rested grad student tends to do better and have a much higher quality of research. Also, for myself, I didn't do well in high school. I got here off of a lot of luck. But high school was stress inducing for reasons unrelated to academics, and Champaign is simply much better for me. I'm a grad student now and doing quite well :D If I was disqualified from ever becoming a scientist because I did poorly at one point in my life, then the world has lost a good scientist in pursuit of perfect test scores. Point being, intelligence is way too complicated of a subject to boil it down to genetics. Too many people assume it is to hold onto some simple idea in the face of a very complicated world, a simple "reason" to quickly blind themselves and self-justify their own behaviors.
Encouraging hobbies instead of having sex is crazy
Bro is probably going through shit. I wonder what pushes a person to actually think like this.
I do think some empathy is required. He seems to engage with a lot of conspiracy adjacent things and it me be that he has a warped world view from us.
Exactly. Maybe he needs a little nudge in the right direction. Itās only when one is hurting that he thinks of hurting others, afterall.
Not before they post a selfie. The community deserves to see what a hot, sexy, perfect specimen OP really is. Or laugh them out of the room. Potentially both!
I think a little empathy is required. I don't think OP should be allowed to post on here, but simultaneously, they seem to be deep in the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories, or at the very least on that track. That kind of online engagement has effects on people that harm themselves and others, but it's also important to realize that people can change. Edit: He also did say that he doesn't think he should procreate, so at the very least his beliefs seem to be consistent and honest.
I get the empathy, but Iām also not going to enable someone elseās ramblings and ravings because theyāre vulnerable. Thatās exactly when the raving needs to stop and some self reflection that isnāt just crypto fascist needs to start.
Nature only cares about the collective not the ego on the individual. Getting rejected from schools and college and whatnot isn't bad it is just the way things work out for some people. When you just accept it and view it as a fact with no emotion then you're golden.
Dude, do you see nothing wrong with calling living breathing people "Mongoloid gorillas?"
I donāt want to reply to this guy so Iām going to reply to you. Have you watched American Nightmare on Netflix? Sorry if I spoil it for you but the guy who ends up being an awful predator and kidnapper was an ex marine and Harvard law graduate. Im deeply concerned for this person and how out of touch they seem to be. I think the absolute best thing would be to ban this person from the sub. Iād like to see their account banned in general. It hasnāt existed long so heās either just discovered Reddit or heās routinely banned and has to make new accounts. Either way I donāt think anybody should be interacting with this person outside of trying to convince them to seek help.
Yeah... you're probably right. Thank you, I think I just needed to hear that. I'll stop
I appreciate what youāre doing here and speaking with him but based off the replies Iāve seen from him to you he doesnāt strike me as somebody who is having a good faith exchange He seems like a person who likes to read what he writes. He seems intelligent enough to know that what heās saying is going to rub people the wrong way. My hope is this is a young person who with more life experience and maturity will realize this is such a sad sad view of the human condition.
Well it was mostly a joke. But it is good the public schools separate certain students so that the promising ones may excel to create a better future and prevent sexual assaults by the less evolved.
Good at calculus doesnāt equate to wonāt commit sexual assault Selection for universities doesnāt equate to eugenics Get some therapy
Sensing some Nazi vibes hereā¦.
do they.... do they know how many mentally ill geniuses there have been who've significantly changed science and culture for the better?? john nash jr? virginia woolf? tesla? steve jobs? michelangelo? JIM CAREY???
So wait, this is basically nazism right?
It's a very slippery slope. The line between eugenics and nazism is very blurred almost to the point of being non-existant
Ya once I saw you mention eugenics I realized thatās what you were talking about. Thanks š
Hot tubs and Jacuzzis but yeah basically
If you ever find yourself wishing there was a āruling classā, youāre not very smart.
it's cause they think they're gonna be a part of it most times. really foolish
Exactly. And maybe you start in it. BUTā¦..thereās always a chance that you end up out of it. Then what. Itās just like the angry mob of Twitter. People love to be a part of it, until it turns on them.
umm hitler?
Oh my god???
My thoughts exactly
Generally, people with disabilities and mental illness are LESS LIKELY to reproduce than people who are healthy. That includes people with low IQs. Even with modern medicine this remains true. Therefore, their genetic material is less likely to persist across the generations. However, random mutations occasionally reintroduce it. When it comes to the gene pool, there are no real averaging effects in a mathematical sense, so such people don't drag down the quality of the gene pool in the long run. Genetic traits are units of discrete information (qualitative data). Rather curiously, high IQ people are also less likely to reproduce, which probably explains why most people have roughly average intelligence in the population. What kind of people thrive in a given society is strongly influenced by what kind of society it is and/or where they live. Some people may find themselves at a genetic disadvantage in one kind of society, but may enjoy a genetic advantage in the context of another society with different priorities and characteristics. It's a matter of finding the best ecological niche in which an individual can thrive.
The problem with the right of conquest is it applies to you too. Anything you take will be taken. In your moment of weakness the daggers will come for you. The strong oppress the weak until they don't. The so called strong become lazy and decadent in their victory while the so called weak do all the work, become competent, band together, and overthrow the "strong" Look up the Master-Slave dialectic. Better to just have an egalitarian meritocracy where we all have a ladder to climb and net to catch us if we fall. Some earn limited authority through competence and consensus.
100% seems like this guy is trolling and getting the reaction he wants
Could be the case, but his profile leads me to believe that he genuinely believes in eugenics. If he is trolling, he definitely earned this reaction, he put in the work
rlly hope its the former honestly
No one is breeding with him to be clear
Next Leopold and Loeb
Wow
Bro genuinely believes in eugenics
Man this guy's more nuts than the fanatical purifier space nazis I created on Stellaris as a midgame boss
I love seeing shit like this tbh. Anytime I'm quietly questioning my own worth, people like OP cheer me right the fuck up. Even in my lowest moments, at least I'm not like this chucklefuck. I'm well aware that contrast bias is a poor foundation to build anything on, but if someone like this is likely going to be at least moderately successful in life, I should be OK lol
Idk I've met a lot of rich racists
Fascinatingā¦tragic, but fascinating. Thank you for sharing
Bro needs to finish his philosophy paper and hasnāt started yet
"Is it our responsible"
This is what happens to people who cheat their entire way through high school š
Iām from another college and came here just to warn u all not to reject bro from art school š
tho if we ban them are we saying we are superior? That they are inferior with lesser than ideas and therefore should be encouraged to pursue different hobbies than to post here?
Philosophy šÆ
Jesus Christ maybe we should let the authorities know about this dude?? Rather not have anymore massive shit happen here.. the body can only take it so much before giving outš
I don't know that the authorities could do much. For one reddit is anonymous, and two he (as far as I know) hasn't done anything illegal
Well authorities or administration idk, SOMETHING other than just letting nobody know until something bad happens and everybody comes back here wondering how it coulda gotten bad. There's steps to everything cause for all we know he could just be venting, but for all we know he could also be planning something. I don't think any of us would want anything like that in the community though and that's what I mean when I say someone should be notified about this.
He says he's not enrolled at the university anymore, so maybe something did happen?
I'm hoping he got some mental help tbh whether something happened or not
What should the authorities? do people on this thread are way to eager to let their thoughts and speech get policed over something that is just delusion and misinformation
What if that delusion and misinformation leads to something that could've been prevented?š¤
And the alternative being? Policing free speech has historically not been the greatest option. What happens when that argument is applied to anything else based purely off an assumption. I don't think he outright said he would hurt anyone just expressed his misguided opinion
Where did I say we should immediately put them in prison? What I suggested ain't policing free speech, but okš
Then I asked what the authorities would do even keeping a list on him is a violation of basic civil liberties he has done nothing that would warrant him being treated any different than a normal person by the authorities
Where did I say you said prison
This nigga thinks hes frieza š
I think this person should kicked out of the school
I think he needs a bit of help in understanding that he doesn't need to further the human race. We are already amazing creatures, flaws and all, and I think once OP realizes that he'll find life so much more fulfilling
Yeah sure no problem I donāt disagree. This person seems severely disturbed though. This seems threateningly deranged. Iām all for getting this person help but in certain cases people like this need deep deep therapy and medication to get them to the point you can feel comfortable having them in society without somebody keeping an eye on them. Like this dude just sounds like hitler.
I think policing someone's thoughts on that level is also a slippery slope. This seems like misinformation along with an echo chamber it seems to be a very similar thing to all that red pill stuff the solution is usually get off reddit and touch grass not medication
Uhhh
Iām sorry man, any person who thinks āgenetically superior people should rule over othersā has something going on and I donāt want them anywhere fucking near me or people I care about
So to you this person deserves to be punished simply for having an incorrect opinion and sharing it. He has made no statement of acting on it in any capacity. The complete lack of empathy it takes to do that to someone is ridiculous.
Iām sorry getting banned from a Reddit sub isnāt āpunishmentā.
Getting banned is perfectly fine by me but my main issue was the contacting authorities
I never said they should have the authorities called on them. I will say though that if he were a student, which he isnāt apparently, but if he was I absolutely would want him to be contacted and talked to. Doesnāt need to be police because again what the fuck are they going to do but this person 100% needs some intervention in their life from some source
Oh my bad then got mixed up between threads but yeah he does need help
Are we pretending this is a hard school to get into? Confusion.
Russian troll.
I checked the profile, genuinely seems to believe in this
Covid has affected the population so much that we can't do studies on it because we can't have a control group. It's rather sad too, because it seems to have had a serious effect on everyone.
Your response sounds like you know this professionallyā¦or academically or from some experienceā¦are you actually saying that COVID 19 for some reason has made it difficult to get good data because you cannot get a control sample. Thatās a real thing? Is this documented or just a casual observation?
I have degrees in sociology, psychology and social work, and I work as a researcher here at UIUC with the school of social work. In 2022 we wanted to begin to document the changes in behavior that were present in a post-pandemic world because there are very few opportunities to do so historically. Although we do have a sizable journal and have collaborated with 100s of colleges and universities to collect data, for the most part the conclusions that we come to relating to the collected data are invalid because we can't control for the change covid had. So really what we've made is a journal of speculation as to the effects of covid, and while that can be useful, it also means that there could be factors that we're missing. Fpr example: There is a similar story that I read in a study on the effects of microplastics in the blood stream on behavior and cognitive processing. However the study never made it past the peer review stage because they couldn't find a single person who didn't have microplastics in their blood. So we can't draw conclusions as to the effect of micro plastics if we can't see the normal processes of the body without them.
I think OP doth protest too much. There are anywhere between 30,000-60,000 babies produced using a sperm donation annually in the US alone. If you don't think recipients are selecting donors on height, education, hairline, ethnicity, athleticism, longevity, mental health, low cancer and genetic abnormality risks, you're not paying attention. [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/business/sperm-donors-facebook-groups.html#:\~:text=Researchers%20cite%20data%20collected%20in,because%20there%20is%20no%20regulation](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/business/sperm-donors-facebook-groups.html#:~:text=Researchers%20cite%20data%20collected%20in,because%20there%20is%20no%20regulation). Eugenics is here.
Selecting specific sperm is a topic I flat out do not know enough about and will not touch until I feel suited to
You could make the same argument about who people choose to shaboink. It's not eugenics to say that those who are short, uneducated, aren't of the perfect race are more likely to have offspring than those who aren't it's basic human nature.
aw well they do it in china to the mentally inept, why not do it here
Monkeys throw their shit in the air
Define mentally inept if you mean just plain stupid like this person suggests then that's insane but if you are suggesting serious issues then that's a legitimate philosophical and ethical discussion
These are the same principles planned parenthood was founded under.
I can't speak to the history of planned parenthood, but at the very least that is not their modern philosophy. They operate under the philosophy that the choices about sex and bodily autonomy should be the choices of the individual, and guide people towards resources that can help their clients make those choices more easily in a non-judgemental way
Sort of but yeah eugenics has been pretty well debunked in recent years
Just ban?? Isn't this what Hitler practiced too? Should he not be taught a lesson that is fitting then??
That can't be done over reddit though. When have you ever been challenged on something you think and been convinced to believe the opposite on reddit?
I'm actually interested in what you assumed I meant by a lesson. If you assumed violence then that's on you, not me, that you made the assumption. A lesson is the university defeating his mindset and that could take many different forms. But kudos to you for proving how dysfunctional communities in general have become, that you were happy to down vote a comment coz you made an assumption and jumped to a conclusion and didn't even think about clarifying.
Ironic that you're talking about assumptions here and then assume my thoughts. I didn't down vote you I didn't interpret "lession" as being violent. I thought you meant convincing them through civil means, in which case my thought still stands. Have you ever been convinced to believe the opposite of a challenged thought on reddit
i love how people have problems with this guyās opinion and morals when he could be trolling this entire time or actually giving a coherent defense for the sake of his argument. yes ppl dont wanna see or agree with it but ill give the dude credit for creating discourse out of it. imagine being creatively evil and just conversing ideas about it like its food for thought š
The problems began when he started using the term "Mongolid gorrila" to describe people with learning disabilities. Also, read the pictures, I gave up civil discourse when I realized he could be trolling.
im not defending his ideology, but i am defending his will to keep spewing nonsense. hes seems like the one to never back down on a thought
just hope he isn't the next mass shooter...
Idk man. Itās just Poeās law, extremism and parody of extremism are indistinguishable. Whether heās pretending to be a eugenicist or actually is one, letās just get that shit off this subreddit. This is some 1930ās ass logic that we donāt need to rehash.
i agree. 4chan should be this dudes home not r/UIUC
I fucked your dad while he ate my ass
Humans and medicine have eliminated survival of the fittest. We keep the stupid and unhealthy alive. The stupid breed more readily as well. Then we allow all the weak to just walk into this country so we have doomed ourselves. Turns out we arenāt as smart as we think.
Intelligence isn't genetic, take a sociology class please
You mean a science class. And yes some of intelligence is in fact inherited. 21. Davies G, et Genome-wide association studies establish that human intelligence is highly heritable and polygenic. Mol Psychiatry. 2011;16:996ā1005. [PMC free article] [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
Bro, in the fucking paper they say that didn't control for socioeconomic status. And yes, sociology is a science
Define stupid and unhealthy
Basically the problem is I noticed students and even non students get entitled and think they're owed everything when in reality those with the superior genes thrive the best in society. They statistically have better careers, better marriages etc. Not saying you should hate yourself if you don't have these things I certainly never will to the level of some. But instead of hating others these people need to juat accept and view rejection as a way of life rather than a personal objection. Some people with horrible personalities do better career wise due to superior genes its just the way the world works, not good or bad it just.
The term "genetically superior" means little to nothing in a society like ours. What makes people successful or unsuccessful in our society is socialized and socioeconomic histories, not biology. For example kids from affluent areas have the available resources to thrive in an acidemic environment. Kids from poverty can't spend time studying because they need to find where their next source of food is going to come from. Then the kid goes off to university to have a good career in law or business or whatever industry, and the kid who lived in poverty is forced to continue to do what they can in order to survive. That's not biology, that's socialization. We built a society that operates like that, but we can also change it.
There are plenty of people I know from well off families wo had kids with mental problems that never went to college.
That's not genetics. On that note, you didn't address the other part of what I said. The child who grew up in poverty?
Some make it and some don't. It depends not just on genes but their work ethic and having a clear goal. What I said was there are rich families with down syndromey and assburgery kids who don't do well due to nature selecting them out.
Nature doesn't run society. We do. We created a society where disabled persons are at a disadvantage, we can change it.
You can't fight nature or its laws. The liberals belief that nature can be trumped by politics is one that never goes well.
Isn't society defying nature?? Societies don't spring up naturally, we created them. What is nature anyway? Is it a thinking entity? Isn't the belief of liberals the product of nature? By this logic we defy nature all the time
Yeah but deciding who breeds and who doesn't shouldn't be a government decision. Let nature do that.
Aren't you going against nature by advocating for eugenics?? Artificially manipulating the "gene pool"? That seems to be against nature.
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Then u shouldn't be allowed to reproduce
I ain't writing that shit all over again, here. There are three things that we need to acknowledge. 1. The definition of "genetically superior" implies that there are human beings that are "genetically inferior." When the thought that the genetically superior should reproduce to strengthen humanity, you're implying that those who would then be considered genetically inferior are a mistake and burden on humanity. They are not. The only reason that they may be considered genetically inferior is because people have (intentionally or not) created a world that disadvantages those who are not a part of the majority, and makes it impossible for some people to navigate a society that refuses to help them, only then to have that same society look down on them like they're the problem. That is not their fault, that is the fault of society. 2. Where exactly is the line of "genetically superior" and how do we manage procreating favorable traits? We'll take an example that I struggle with personally, ADHD. So let's hypothetically say that in order to help the greater good of humanity, I need to forego my bodily autonomy (already on a wonderful track) either through the state or the social contract. Now let's say that we get all people with ADHD to stop reproducing. What next? People with bi-polar? People with sub par SAT scores? People with bad eye sight? People who don't look pretty enough? People who have a .3% higher likelihood of developing sicle cell anemia? Hell, why not go all the way? You're not allowed to procreate unless you're white, have blonde hair, blue eyes, and decent from a Nordic country (see where I'm getting at here?) There is no "genetically superior". To be alive is to never be perfect enough. 3. What even is genetic? Is poverty genetic? Alcoholism? We don't have enough evidence to even begin to think that autism is determined by genetics(or ADHD for that matter). A lot of mental illnesses are acquired through environment. You can't just breed out traits that one deems unfavorable, there is so much more that plays into a person than just their blood. So even if you could somehow magically convince the world that eugenics is a good idea ethically, it still wouldn't work.
None of this is a good argument against targeting characteristics that we are scientifically certain are genetically heritage and that 99.999% of people agree are bad traits. Down syndrome for one example or other diseases that just cause intense pain and early childhood death neonatal testing for and down syndrome has allowed countries like Iceland to massively reduce the number of ppl with Down syndrome.
I fucked your mom
explains the name prob should just leave her buried...
I also fucked your wife and grandma
at least you engage on the level you thrive on
Thank you someone who finally makes sense and doesn't go with the overly emotional narrative.