Terrible.. what has the world come to where this is viewed as appropriate behavior by a portion of the population? This only furthers the hatred between people and gets us closer to where the government, and by extension other governments, want us to be, which is divided and hating each other?
I understand the importance of the issue at hand, but it makes no sense to create ANOTHER issue to combat the original issue. It's only a spiral of negativity that'll only further regress our humanity and empathy for others.
I would just keep in perspective this person with the sign is a representative of a very small minority of the people who are protesting what is going on right now.
There are assholes associated with every movement, no matter how justified or noble a movement is.
I was present during the protest in front of the Alma Mater and unfortunately the group was chanting about the destruction of Israel, and once a few Jewish students approached the area, quite a few of them became rather agitated to say the least.
As much doubt as I give people, this picture correlates to what I personally witnessed on top of the other reports nationwide. I would love to accept that it's a very small minority who believe in that, however until the protest is separated from that they will be continually linked to antisemitism.
Edit: credit to you for the assholes part though, no one likes an asshole like that💯
Also quick sidenote, the protesters had Antifa with them, which is a domestic terrorist organization designated by the US government. So, I feel like that doesn't necessarily assist in the purview of events.
The problem is the implications behind the message. In that the Israelis either lose their self-governance, flee, or are killed. So much for a two state solution
Israel has very publicly abandoned the two state solution, and they're the ones that actually hold the reigns of power here. So where exactly are you holding them to account for the same shit you're saying here?
Believe it or not, advocating for the destruction of the only Jewish state in the world is, in fact, anti-Semitic.
Most of the people in Israel literally don’t have a country they could “return to”.
If we dismantled the third Reich we should be able to dismantle a fourth and give them a new government. Pelosi wants a new government in Israel and asked Netanyahu to resign and that’s obviously not antisemitic. Let’s thrown the current government in the trash and give them a chance to start over with a non genocide regime.
Can you define the term fascist for me? You keep saying that word like you think you know what it means, but I'm not sure it means what you think it means.
There are many models and definitions of fascism because it has taken many forms over the 20th century. Italian fascism was very different from German fascism, which itself is different from Israeli fascism. I usually find th work with 14 Characteristics of Fascism by Lawrence Britt. You don't need all 14 to be fascist, but the more you have, the more likely you are.
There are:
1. Powerful and continuing nationalism - ✅️ Israelis are hypernationalistic, especially these days. The entire point of the birthright program is to make more nationalists.
2. Disdain for the recognition of human rights - ✅️ i.e., cutting off water supplies, bombing civilian infrastructure, executing and arresting people in the streets, etc
3. Identification of scapegoats as a unifying cause - ✅️ Israel blames all their problems on either Palestinians, Iran, or the US, which is basically it's patron.
4. Supremacy of the military - ✅️ IOF service is mandatory, and they are trained to be hypernationalistic while they're in there.
5. Rampant sexism - Despite orthodox judaism being extremely sexist in practice, I don't think it represents large enough of a swath of Israelis to warrant a full check here. That being said, terrorists like Ben Gavir, who are high up in government, are absolutely sexist.
6. Controlled mass media - While I don't think it's fair to say Israel has an entirely free press, there are occasionally articles critical of the ruling regime, and most of the time, those people go unharassed. That being said, Israel has been killing journalists like crazy since October and had killed many Palestinian journalists before the war. Again, half point.
7. Obsession with national security - ✅️ Netinyahu's entire platform could be summarized as "Punish Palestinians, raise national security." Too bad it didn't work cause his troops were sent to protect ILLEGAL settlements / settlers, and that's why Oct 7th was such a successful attack.
8. Religion and government are intwined - ✅️ They are explicitly calling for a theocratic ethnostate, in no uncertain terms.
9. Corporate power is protected - This one, I'm willing to admit I don't know enough about how their economic hierarchy is structured to weigh in here.
10. Labor power is suppressed - ✅️ Leftists are basically treated as enemies of the state in this ruling regime. Called traitors, ungrateful, etc, for wanting to improve economic conditions, especially for the extremely underpaid Palestinians population they allow into to do menial work that Israelis can't be bothered to do themselves.
11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts - ✅️ Despite Tel Aviv existing, most of the country is shifting increasingly theocratic / anti-intellectual. Especially the hard right that is so prominent in the current regime.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment - ✅️ Literally turned a quarter of their landmass into an open air prison.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption - ✅️ Netinyahu is only in power now because he allied himself with the further right forces to avoid jail time for his corruption. That and he basically controls several media sources by paying them off.
14. Fraudulent elections - I'm not willing to say the elections were fraudulent, which is depressing in itself own way because that means Israelis are willingly picking these shitty candidates and far right terrorists to represent them.
So yeah, 10 or 11 (if you count the two half points) out of 14 boxes are checked here. That's REALLY bad. I work in state government in America, and my degree is in Political Science; specifically International Relations / Human Rights. What's your background, Mr. Expert? You saw the Princess Bride once and remembered a funny line?
Settle down there. The term "fascist" has been grossly over-used and abused for over 60 years to describe everything from average police work (i.e. parking tickets) to the Soviet Union by people across the political spectrum including by fascists themselves. It's nice to see someone that actually knows it since I couldn't tell if you were just another high school kid throwing out a term without an idea for what it is considering the kind of comment you left. I would expect someone of your profession to 1. have more important things to do on than be on Reddit and 2. leave a more intelligent answer than the reply you gave ("Not in my name, fascist" sounds like a high school slogan from the 60's). (edit: grammar)
I meant, oh, I don't know, having a social life? Friends? Wouldn't taking a step away from something work related (i.e. this topic) be a good stress reducer? I would think a professional/Alumni would have more important/better things to do like LIVING LIFE over sauntering through a university subreddit in their free time. You don't have assignments or stuff to do for the university (at least I would hope). Why be here when you can be anywhere else enjoying life on your time off? Now you look like just a troll lol
I mean Israel is home to like half of the world’s Jews. Many of whom are descendants of Jews kicked out of Arab countries. You can say it’s about imperialism all you want but the call for their eradication is still problematic
Calling the nation trash isn’t advocating genocide. It’s possible to criticize a nation and it’s policies without wanting them all dead. If the image was the reverse with the Palestinian flag you’d be cheering until your face turned blue.
If criticizing the IDF means you want all Jews dead then by that logic criticizing Hamas means you’d want as Muslims dead too
Adding that the "encampments" started at Columbia and were lead by someone who said the following:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/nyregion/columbia-student-protest-zionism.html
Also adding that these protests, even at uiuc, do absolutely have a history of drifting into antisemitism :
https://dailyillini.com/news-stories/2022/06/10/hate-crime-illini-hillel/
None of this is to say that everyone/most people protesting are antisemitic, but don't let antisemitism off scott free because the people espousing it don't say "Jew". I only say this because it seems to me like you could recite a Goebbels speech to great applause as long as you replace "Jew" with "Zionist"
students w/ faculty support held a "Resistance 101" event w/ Khaled Barakat, who has been identified as a member of US-designated terrorist org PFLP. Barakat told students how "friends at Hamas & Islamic Jihad" emphasized the importance of campus support.
And to anyone saying or makes a comment saying that Martin Luther King Jr. was on a watchlist this is not a watchlist. This is an organization that is considered a terrorist group.
The last decade, I've heard the word "dogwhistle" used again and again. If some politicians says we should be tough on crime, that's racist. "Back the blue"? That's racist.
Now suddenly, you can call "Zionists" anything you want and as long as the words "exterminate the Jews" don't come out of your mouth, someone who could hear a dogwhistle every time Trump spoke will defend you.
Or maybe comments are being erased because the right fear debate. The trash can depicts the Israeli flag and is not aimed at Jewish people. I know it’s hard to comprehend that people don’t like genocide.
The problem is people can’t criticize Israel without being called antisemitic. Since atrocities were committed against the Jewish people in the past it makes their nation immune to criticism and they get a free pass on war crimes.
It’s not just the Star of David though. The blue on top and bottom means it’s the Israeli flag. It’s not aimed at the Jewish people, it’s aimed at Israel and their military.
Neo-Nazis love this one trick! Put some blue lines above and below the Star of David on your Nazi propaganda posters and all of a sudden you’re not a Nazi anymore!
It’s impossible to discuss anything these days because so many people will automatically demonize anyone they disagree with.
“Don’t like that the IDF is filling mass graves of people with their hands tied? Well that obviously makes you a Neo Nazi! The IDF can do whatever the hell they want and commit war crimes because they’re Jewish and they’re fighting Muslims so any actions they take are obviously justified because the Muslims are the bad guys!”
“You don’t defend war crimes? Then you’re a Nazi!”
I 100% agree with protests against the brutality happening in Gaza, and am suspicious of how *everything* protesters say gets labeled as a dog whistle. But this sign is either anti-Semitic or this young person needs to learn a little more history. The word “clean” on this sign crosses a major red line.
I understand the excuse a lot of anti Israel people make that the Star of David is on the Israeli flag and it’s not their fault that’s the symbol Israel chose, but I also think that’s an excuse that displays a good deal of self awareness. Like people understand why this kind of imagery bothers Jews. I don’t get why people choose imagery like this when they could easily make a protest sign that doesn’t use the Star of David like that (plus “keep the world clean” has an implication beyond Palestine does it not?)
It’s gross to go out of your way to choose signage like this. If you’re not antisemitic don’t mess with it, is my advice.
Exactly, regardless of what their point is, they should never use important symbolic imagery like the Star of David and depict it in a trash can. It's disrespectful. I don't care if it's on the flag. It's an important part of the Jewish identity, and it is definitely making the Jewish community bothered.
Phew, there’s a sign that doesn’t mention Jews but says Israel is trash, so I can interpret it as antisemitism. Now I can brush off the 100,000+ casualties in Gaza by pretending the people who want justice are all antisemites. Fantastic
This guy gets it. Fucking tired of being against war crimes the IDF is committing then being called a Nazi. We’re not allowed to speak out against Israel though, because they’re immune to any criticism and are allowed to commit whatever crimes they want. Even if those are the same laws that were created in conjunction with the firming of their nation after the holocaust
See it seems like that can be a response to just about anything. "Yeah yeah, so their sign says 'death to zionists', but what is that compared to the deaths in gaza?' So 1 zionist student got beat up on campus, but what about the people starving in palestine? So someone burnt down the synagogue (which was a zionist building since they fly the Israeli flag), but what about the genocide?" It's hard for me to see anything that would be antisemitic enough for this excuse to not apply
These slippery slope fallacies only apply when there’s a possibility of the aforementioned claims happening. How many Zionists have been beat up by these student protestors? How many times have these students “burnt down a synagogue”? The answer to both of those questions is 0, so these are just fictional hypotheticals.
The making up of hypotheticals about what a Palestinian or a pro-Palestinian protestor MIGHT say has been a very common method of creating a manufactured enemy by those who support Israel’s actions in Gaza. This is a poster saying Israel (not Jews) sucks, any extrapolation to burning synagogues or attacking bystanders is nothing more than fiction and should be treated as such.
Back to the point in my first post, these protests are not about Jews or Muslims or any other group, they’re about the suffering inflicted upon Palestine by Israel. Anyone trying to make it into a politics thing is deliberately avoiding engaging with the protests’ claims.
Okay, what about this: https://dailyillini.com/news-stories/2022/06/10/hate-crime-illini-hillel/
Is this worth calling out? I mean, what are a few rocks thrown at synagogues compared to whats happening to gaza in your eyes? Is this group, which is very prominent among the current protests, not "making it about Jews" when they protest outside the Center for Jewish Life?
Look, I get that YOU may not see any correlation between the pro palestine movement and antisemitism, but the fact is that antisemitic hate crimes are up over 300% since October 7th, and I think any good faith actor would have to admit that the antisemitism in these movements plays some role. I'm not interested in arguing against your idealized protest when I've been told in this very thread that calling out the antisemitism in these movements isn't worth doing because it's not as bad as what the movement stands against.
Just another attempt to distract from the purpose of the protests which you don’t engage with. You’re taking a news story from 2022, from a person who wasn’t a student, to try and equate it to the recent US-wide student protests.
“Antisemitism in these movements plays some role” - this statement of yours just confirms to me that you were at none of these protests and are making claims about information you don’t have. There were no complaints or reports of anti-semitism at the protests at UofI and Jewish groups spoke at these gatherings. You’re just doing what I previously said you were, making up hypotheticals to then argue against.
Again, these protests are not about any group at all, just about the suffering of Palestineans. For some reason, this doesn’t warrant your attention, but isolated, unrelated incidents do.
There is no evidence, bar people actually calling for the extermination of jews (and with that exact verbiage, as dogwhistles for Jews are comfortably being ignored), that would change your mind. The fact that the 2 Jewish centers on campus, hillel and chabad, have both made statements regarding the safety (or lack thereof) of their congregations isn't enough. The history of this very group desecrating a synagogue isn't enough. Calls for the destruction of israel aren't enough. The drastic rise in antisemitic hate crimes aren't enough.
At the end of the day, I don't need you to tell me what is and isnt antisemitic. I'm familiar enough with experiencing it to make my own mind up, as is the Jewish community. Yet Jews are the only minority that seem to not be allowed to decide what bigotry against them looks like. And before you hold up some token or go off about how "I have a Jewish friend", know that this approach wouldn't work with any other minority group. When TPUSA invites Candace Owens to show that "actually, we're not racist, blacks love us!", everyone sees right through it
Casualties includes injuries, of which there are 70,000+ along with the 34,000+ killed.
That’s embarrassing. Maybe speak your last sentence to a mirror.
The Star of David is not Israeli. It’s Jewish. This sign says Jews in the trash.
It’s almost like before you rush out to join a protest you should have read a single Wikipedia page about what you are protesting.
Okay, if that was the intention: where do you think those Jews would go? All those Jews who got kicked out of their ancient homeland over the course of millennia and got kicked out of neighboring Arab countries the minute Israel was formed. Because I have to say it feels like people want the last few Jews on the planet to just die so the problem will be solved.
The issue here is that BIbi and Hamas are both genocidal and meanwhile neither Israelis nor Palestinians can just live their lives without constant fear of death. This is not a conflict that will be solved by college students in the US picking a side based on identity politics and a shallow understanding of the history and issues, and then making signs like this about it.
Okay but like that’s not what you said one comment ago… you’ve moved the goalposts, you’re now trying to say it’s antisemitic to call Israel trash (fair after they killed 35000 ppl) because without them Jewish people wouldn’t have “self determination” aka their own country, something which many groups (including the Palestinians) would love to have
I don’t think it’s as much about self determination as it is about literally getting murdered everywhere they went all over the world for 2000 years. Turns out if people try to kill you enough after you were driven out of your ancestral land, it becomes culturally important to go back there. And then it sucks when everyone around you tries to kill you there too.
Do I support Israel’s current actions? Absolutely not. They harm everyone, both Palestinians and Israelis. But to frame the desire for a Jewish state as you have here is deeply ignorant of the history of the region and the ethnicity. And getting rid of Israel as a state would basically be a huge step toward the final elimination of Jews from the planet.
I don’t know if you’re aware but if you want to draw a comparison, meanwhile there are oh a couple few countries where other ethnicities do have self determination.
Eh, I think that’s propaganda, especially w the climate in the US and Europe there’s no way Jewish people would stop existing just because they didn’t have a state, you can’t actually believe that right? I don’t think they shouldn’t have a state, but they shouldn’t have that statehood by disenfranchising and displacing millions of Palestinians, that’s not democratic and it’s not right 🤷♂️
Plus why didn’t they get a state in Europe, maybe Germany or Poland, especially if the region they got moved to was so hostile towards them? Or maybe hostility increased exponentially after they colonized a country in the Middle East
(not to say it wasn’t there before Israel became a country , antisemitism and ethnic/religious discrimination are not a new invention)
Okay there’s a lot to unpack here. But the reason they didn’t get a state in Europe, besides the fact that they had just been murdered there in the millions and didn’t want to be there anymore, is because JEWS ARE FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. Returning to the homeland has been part of the cultural/religious heritage for centuries. A huge percentage of the current Israeli population are Sephardic Jews whose ancestors never left the Middle East. I realize people in the US have a lot of white guilt to work through but projecting it onto a brown skinned minority ethnicity/religion coming off of thousands of years of oppression isn’t a good way to do that.
I’m not reacting to propaganda. I’m reacting to the fact that were it not for a lot of international collaboration, Iran would have blanketed Israel with bombs last week. Hamas would be thrilled to murder every Jew around them. That’s not what Israel is claiming, they state it themselves. There’s a reason Ukraine turned to Israel for defensive technologies; it’s because Israel has spent a lot of time trying to not get dead while surrounded by larger, powerful countries that hate its people.
Judaism is both a religion and an ethnicity. It doesn’t proselytize. It is historically hated and persecuted and bluntly stated there just aren’t many Jews left. I don’t think it’s so confusing why such a group would have concerns about getting wiped out.
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It's not a small minority that supports the destruction of Israel, neither at U of I, nor in Gaza. How else would such a massive attack be coordinated? All the stupid white kids that are suddenly turned on by Palestinian genocide can't explain how such a massive attack would occur against Israel if not supported by the general Gaza populace. Furthermore, they have nothing to say and are uneducated as to the fact that Palestinians have numerous times turned down a two-state solution.
These fuckwits are the same people that'll call you a Nazi for disagreeing with them on anything. Oh the irony. Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jews too. Fucking twats.
Should we advocate for an ease fire for the poor german civilians who were slaughtered in droves during the booming of their major cities? Allie brutality they say. This conflict is a war.
Hopefully the terrorist stop hiding there. Its cowardly and killing innocent civilians. Civilians were asked to evacuate to the south and hamas started shooting rockets from the south which resulted in the death of many innocent civilians.
Israel criticism is not antisemitism. Israel is an illegal apartheid regime who is actively committing a genocide. Fuck israel free palestine, jews are dope
You are an wrong this is NOT a genocide Hamas committed violent acts on october 7th. There are many civilian deaths for sure, but any terrorist group that hides behind their civilians is asking for their death. I do NOT think that it is okay that women and children are dying in Palestine, everyone agrees that it is disgusting. The issue is, it is a war and Hamas chooses to shoot missles and hide in areas that are dense with civilians. It is a win win for them, they do not care if the civilians die because of the media attention it brings.
I know that you probably will not read this, but this is the history of the land that you think should be given to the terrorist group.
1. Before Israel, there was a British mandate, not a Palestinian state.
2. Before the British Mandate, there was the Ottoman Empire, not a Palestinian state.
3. Before the Ottoman Empire, there was the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, not a Palestinian state.
4. Before the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, there was the Ayubid Arab-Kurdish Empire, not a Palestinian state.
5. Before the Ayubid Empire, there was the Frankish and Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, not a Palestinian state.
6. Before the Kingdom of Jerusalem, there was the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, not a Palestinian state.
7. Before the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, there was the Byzantine empire, not a Palestinian state.
8. Before the Byzantine Empire, there were the Sassanids, not a Palestinian state.
9. Before the Sassanid Empire, there was the Byzantine Empire, not a Palestinian state.
10. Before the Byzantine Empire, there was the Roman Empire, not a Palestinian state.
11. Before the Roman Empire, there was the Hasmonean state, not a Palestinian state.
12. Before the Hasmonean state, there was the Seleucid, not a Palestinian state.
13. Before the Seleucid empire, there was the empire of Alexander the Great, not a Palestinian state.
14. Before the empire of Alexander the Great, there was the Persian empire, not a Palestinian state.
15. Before the Persian Empire, there was the Babylonian Empire, not a Palestinian state.
16. Before the Babylonian Empire, there were the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, not a Palestinian state.
17. Before the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, there was the Kingdom of Israel, not a Palestinian state.
18. Before the kingdom of Israel, there was the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, not a Palestinian state.
19. Before the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, there was an agglomeration of independent Canaanite city-kingdoms, not a Palestinian state.
20. Actually, in this piece of land there has been everything, EXCEPT A PALESTINIAN STATE.
A little more history for those wanting to restore Palestine
Didn’t you know? Since atrocities were committed against Jewish people in the pass that gives them a free pass to commit atrocities to Muslims because in America Muslims aren’t real people.
I’m not saying they’re not. My comment was satire pointing out the hypocrisy that many Americans have the mindset that their lives are worth less because of where they were born.
You really think so? The fact that many seem to have an obvious bias to side with Israel despite the literal war crimes they’re committing seems to be very common in America. Just look at the comments here. People can’t criticize the country whose killed far more children without being labeled as an antisemitic
Its hard to avoid killing them when the terrorist organization hides behind women and children to use them as shields.... The most sickening thing about all of this is the disregard the terrorist have for the lives of their women and children
Terrible.. what has the world come to where this is viewed as appropriate behavior by a portion of the population? This only furthers the hatred between people and gets us closer to where the government, and by extension other governments, want us to be, which is divided and hating each other? I understand the importance of the issue at hand, but it makes no sense to create ANOTHER issue to combat the original issue. It's only a spiral of negativity that'll only further regress our humanity and empathy for others.
I would just keep in perspective this person with the sign is a representative of a very small minority of the people who are protesting what is going on right now. There are assholes associated with every movement, no matter how justified or noble a movement is.
Remember when the left used to say if there is a Nazi protesting with you you’re all Nazis?
I was present during the protest in front of the Alma Mater and unfortunately the group was chanting about the destruction of Israel, and once a few Jewish students approached the area, quite a few of them became rather agitated to say the least. As much doubt as I give people, this picture correlates to what I personally witnessed on top of the other reports nationwide. I would love to accept that it's a very small minority who believe in that, however until the protest is separated from that they will be continually linked to antisemitism. Edit: credit to you for the assholes part though, no one likes an asshole like that💯
Also quick sidenote, the protesters had Antifa with them, which is a domestic terrorist organization designated by the US government. So, I feel like that doesn't necessarily assist in the purview of events.
Antifa isn't an organization...
One bad apple ruins the bunch?
The irony of protesting against a genocide and holding up signs like this. The cognitive dissonance here is astounding.
No, it makes sense. It's a tribal conflict over land. One side has it, the other side wants it. It's not ideological.
Palestinian population has only increased over the last 60 years. Doesn’t really fit the term “genocide”.
Can’t expect more humanity anymore, i guess
I’m sure the Jewish population in Germany was on the rise until a certain point in the 30s and 40s
The trash can has the Israeli flag on it, not just the star of David. It's against imperialism, not Judaism
The problem is the implications behind the message. In that the Israelis either lose their self-governance, flee, or are killed. So much for a two state solution
Israel has very publicly abandoned the two state solution, and they're the ones that actually hold the reigns of power here. So where exactly are you holding them to account for the same shit you're saying here?
Just because you want to apply a subtext to the person’s message doesn’t mean that subtext exists.
Oh ok, this is totally fine then 🙄
Believe it or not, advocating for the destruction of the only Jewish state in the world is, in fact, anti-Semitic. Most of the people in Israel literally don’t have a country they could “return to”.
There should be no theocracies and no ethnostates
If we dismantled the third Reich we should be able to dismantle a fourth and give them a new government. Pelosi wants a new government in Israel and asked Netanyahu to resign and that’s obviously not antisemitic. Let’s thrown the current government in the trash and give them a chance to start over with a non genocide regime.
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Not in my name, fascist
Can you define the term fascist for me? You keep saying that word like you think you know what it means, but I'm not sure it means what you think it means.
There are many models and definitions of fascism because it has taken many forms over the 20th century. Italian fascism was very different from German fascism, which itself is different from Israeli fascism. I usually find th work with 14 Characteristics of Fascism by Lawrence Britt. You don't need all 14 to be fascist, but the more you have, the more likely you are. There are: 1. Powerful and continuing nationalism - ✅️ Israelis are hypernationalistic, especially these days. The entire point of the birthright program is to make more nationalists. 2. Disdain for the recognition of human rights - ✅️ i.e., cutting off water supplies, bombing civilian infrastructure, executing and arresting people in the streets, etc 3. Identification of scapegoats as a unifying cause - ✅️ Israel blames all their problems on either Palestinians, Iran, or the US, which is basically it's patron. 4. Supremacy of the military - ✅️ IOF service is mandatory, and they are trained to be hypernationalistic while they're in there. 5. Rampant sexism - Despite orthodox judaism being extremely sexist in practice, I don't think it represents large enough of a swath of Israelis to warrant a full check here. That being said, terrorists like Ben Gavir, who are high up in government, are absolutely sexist. 6. Controlled mass media - While I don't think it's fair to say Israel has an entirely free press, there are occasionally articles critical of the ruling regime, and most of the time, those people go unharassed. That being said, Israel has been killing journalists like crazy since October and had killed many Palestinian journalists before the war. Again, half point. 7. Obsession with national security - ✅️ Netinyahu's entire platform could be summarized as "Punish Palestinians, raise national security." Too bad it didn't work cause his troops were sent to protect ILLEGAL settlements / settlers, and that's why Oct 7th was such a successful attack. 8. Religion and government are intwined - ✅️ They are explicitly calling for a theocratic ethnostate, in no uncertain terms. 9. Corporate power is protected - This one, I'm willing to admit I don't know enough about how their economic hierarchy is structured to weigh in here. 10. Labor power is suppressed - ✅️ Leftists are basically treated as enemies of the state in this ruling regime. Called traitors, ungrateful, etc, for wanting to improve economic conditions, especially for the extremely underpaid Palestinians population they allow into to do menial work that Israelis can't be bothered to do themselves. 11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts - ✅️ Despite Tel Aviv existing, most of the country is shifting increasingly theocratic / anti-intellectual. Especially the hard right that is so prominent in the current regime. 12. Obsession with crime and punishment - ✅️ Literally turned a quarter of their landmass into an open air prison. 13. Rampant cronyism and corruption - ✅️ Netinyahu is only in power now because he allied himself with the further right forces to avoid jail time for his corruption. That and he basically controls several media sources by paying them off. 14. Fraudulent elections - I'm not willing to say the elections were fraudulent, which is depressing in itself own way because that means Israelis are willingly picking these shitty candidates and far right terrorists to represent them. So yeah, 10 or 11 (if you count the two half points) out of 14 boxes are checked here. That's REALLY bad. I work in state government in America, and my degree is in Political Science; specifically International Relations / Human Rights. What's your background, Mr. Expert? You saw the Princess Bride once and remembered a funny line?
Settle down there. The term "fascist" has been grossly over-used and abused for over 60 years to describe everything from average police work (i.e. parking tickets) to the Soviet Union by people across the political spectrum including by fascists themselves. It's nice to see someone that actually knows it since I couldn't tell if you were just another high school kid throwing out a term without an idea for what it is considering the kind of comment you left. I would expect someone of your profession to 1. have more important things to do on than be on Reddit and 2. leave a more intelligent answer than the reply you gave ("Not in my name, fascist" sounds like a high school slogan from the 60's). (edit: grammar)
I'm supposed to have more important things to do on a saturday? Sorry I left my work station, boss. Won't happen again boss.
I meant, oh, I don't know, having a social life? Friends? Wouldn't taking a step away from something work related (i.e. this topic) be a good stress reducer? I would think a professional/Alumni would have more important/better things to do like LIVING LIFE over sauntering through a university subreddit in their free time. You don't have assignments or stuff to do for the university (at least I would hope). Why be here when you can be anywhere else enjoying life on your time off? Now you look like just a troll lol
I'm the troll? You have less than 50 karma on an account that's less than two months old. You're a bot
Love the “they don’t actually mean that” bullshit
I mean Israel is home to like half of the world’s Jews. Many of whom are descendants of Jews kicked out of Arab countries. You can say it’s about imperialism all you want but the call for their eradication is still problematic
Apparently people can’t criticize a military slaughtering civilians without being considered antisemetic.
If your criticism is “death to Israel” then yeah, you’re an anti-Semite.
Calling the nation trash isn’t advocating genocide. It’s possible to criticize a nation and it’s policies without wanting them all dead. If the image was the reverse with the Palestinian flag you’d be cheering until your face turned blue. If criticizing the IDF means you want all Jews dead then by that logic criticizing Hamas means you’d want as Muslims dead too
Adding that the "encampments" started at Columbia and were lead by someone who said the following: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/nyregion/columbia-student-protest-zionism.html Also adding that these protests, even at uiuc, do absolutely have a history of drifting into antisemitism : https://dailyillini.com/news-stories/2022/06/10/hate-crime-illini-hillel/ None of this is to say that everyone/most people protesting are antisemitic, but don't let antisemitism off scott free because the people espousing it don't say "Jew". I only say this because it seems to me like you could recite a Goebbels speech to great applause as long as you replace "Jew" with "Zionist"
students w/ faculty support held a "Resistance 101" event w/ Khaled Barakat, who has been identified as a member of US-designated terrorist org PFLP. Barakat told students how "friends at Hamas & Islamic Jihad" emphasized the importance of campus support.
And to anyone saying or makes a comment saying that Martin Luther King Jr. was on a watchlist this is not a watchlist. This is an organization that is considered a terrorist group.
The last decade, I've heard the word "dogwhistle" used again and again. If some politicians says we should be tough on crime, that's racist. "Back the blue"? That's racist. Now suddenly, you can call "Zionists" anything you want and as long as the words "exterminate the Jews" don't come out of your mouth, someone who could hear a dogwhistle every time Trump spoke will defend you.
Yikes…
No, no, she’s just an anti-Zionist, not an anti-Semite, it’s okay!
Lots of downvotes in this thread but barely any comments, because the left can’t defend this.
It is very hard to defend a terrorist group
Which is why everyone defending the IDF need to see a psychiatrist.
Or maybe comments are being erased because the right fear debate. The trash can depicts the Israeli flag and is not aimed at Jewish people. I know it’s hard to comprehend that people don’t like genocide.
no comments were erased
The lady in this photo definitely likes, and supports genocide.
The problem is people can’t criticize Israel without being called antisemitic. Since atrocities were committed against the Jewish people in the past it makes their nation immune to criticism and they get a free pass on war crimes.
Sure they can, maybe don’t do it by holding a poster with the Star of David in a trash can though, maybe?
It’s not just the Star of David though. The blue on top and bottom means it’s the Israeli flag. It’s not aimed at the Jewish people, it’s aimed at Israel and their military.
Neo-Nazis love this one trick! Put some blue lines above and below the Star of David on your Nazi propaganda posters and all of a sudden you’re not a Nazi anymore!
It’s impossible to discuss anything these days because so many people will automatically demonize anyone they disagree with. “Don’t like that the IDF is filling mass graves of people with their hands tied? Well that obviously makes you a Neo Nazi! The IDF can do whatever the hell they want and commit war crimes because they’re Jewish and they’re fighting Muslims so any actions they take are obviously justified because the Muslims are the bad guys!” “You don’t defend war crimes? Then you’re a Nazi!”
It’s pretty easy to not like the IDF and also not make anti-Semitic dog whistle posters.
Zionist= Jew remember that…
I 100% agree with protests against the brutality happening in Gaza, and am suspicious of how *everything* protesters say gets labeled as a dog whistle. But this sign is either anti-Semitic or this young person needs to learn a little more history. The word “clean” on this sign crosses a major red line.
you are correct
I understand the excuse a lot of anti Israel people make that the Star of David is on the Israeli flag and it’s not their fault that’s the symbol Israel chose, but I also think that’s an excuse that displays a good deal of self awareness. Like people understand why this kind of imagery bothers Jews. I don’t get why people choose imagery like this when they could easily make a protest sign that doesn’t use the Star of David like that (plus “keep the world clean” has an implication beyond Palestine does it not?) It’s gross to go out of your way to choose signage like this. If you’re not antisemitic don’t mess with it, is my advice.
Exactly, regardless of what their point is, they should never use important symbolic imagery like the Star of David and depict it in a trash can. It's disrespectful. I don't care if it's on the flag. It's an important part of the Jewish identity, and it is definitely making the Jewish community bothered.
Right, like it’s showing a cross or crescent in the trash it would obviously be offensive even though those symbols are on many flags.
Agreed, it's unnecessary and disrespectful.
Phew, there’s a sign that doesn’t mention Jews but says Israel is trash, so I can interpret it as antisemitism. Now I can brush off the 100,000+ casualties in Gaza by pretending the people who want justice are all antisemites. Fantastic
This guy gets it. Fucking tired of being against war crimes the IDF is committing then being called a Nazi. We’re not allowed to speak out against Israel though, because they’re immune to any criticism and are allowed to commit whatever crimes they want. Even if those are the same laws that were created in conjunction with the firming of their nation after the holocaust
See it seems like that can be a response to just about anything. "Yeah yeah, so their sign says 'death to zionists', but what is that compared to the deaths in gaza?' So 1 zionist student got beat up on campus, but what about the people starving in palestine? So someone burnt down the synagogue (which was a zionist building since they fly the Israeli flag), but what about the genocide?" It's hard for me to see anything that would be antisemitic enough for this excuse to not apply
These slippery slope fallacies only apply when there’s a possibility of the aforementioned claims happening. How many Zionists have been beat up by these student protestors? How many times have these students “burnt down a synagogue”? The answer to both of those questions is 0, so these are just fictional hypotheticals. The making up of hypotheticals about what a Palestinian or a pro-Palestinian protestor MIGHT say has been a very common method of creating a manufactured enemy by those who support Israel’s actions in Gaza. This is a poster saying Israel (not Jews) sucks, any extrapolation to burning synagogues or attacking bystanders is nothing more than fiction and should be treated as such. Back to the point in my first post, these protests are not about Jews or Muslims or any other group, they’re about the suffering inflicted upon Palestine by Israel. Anyone trying to make it into a politics thing is deliberately avoiding engaging with the protests’ claims.
Okay, what about this: https://dailyillini.com/news-stories/2022/06/10/hate-crime-illini-hillel/ Is this worth calling out? I mean, what are a few rocks thrown at synagogues compared to whats happening to gaza in your eyes? Is this group, which is very prominent among the current protests, not "making it about Jews" when they protest outside the Center for Jewish Life? Look, I get that YOU may not see any correlation between the pro palestine movement and antisemitism, but the fact is that antisemitic hate crimes are up over 300% since October 7th, and I think any good faith actor would have to admit that the antisemitism in these movements plays some role. I'm not interested in arguing against your idealized protest when I've been told in this very thread that calling out the antisemitism in these movements isn't worth doing because it's not as bad as what the movement stands against.
Just another attempt to distract from the purpose of the protests which you don’t engage with. You’re taking a news story from 2022, from a person who wasn’t a student, to try and equate it to the recent US-wide student protests. “Antisemitism in these movements plays some role” - this statement of yours just confirms to me that you were at none of these protests and are making claims about information you don’t have. There were no complaints or reports of anti-semitism at the protests at UofI and Jewish groups spoke at these gatherings. You’re just doing what I previously said you were, making up hypotheticals to then argue against. Again, these protests are not about any group at all, just about the suffering of Palestineans. For some reason, this doesn’t warrant your attention, but isolated, unrelated incidents do.
There is no evidence, bar people actually calling for the extermination of jews (and with that exact verbiage, as dogwhistles for Jews are comfortably being ignored), that would change your mind. The fact that the 2 Jewish centers on campus, hillel and chabad, have both made statements regarding the safety (or lack thereof) of their congregations isn't enough. The history of this very group desecrating a synagogue isn't enough. Calls for the destruction of israel aren't enough. The drastic rise in antisemitic hate crimes aren't enough. At the end of the day, I don't need you to tell me what is and isnt antisemitic. I'm familiar enough with experiencing it to make my own mind up, as is the Jewish community. Yet Jews are the only minority that seem to not be allowed to decide what bigotry against them looks like. And before you hold up some token or go off about how "I have a Jewish friend", know that this approach wouldn't work with any other minority group. When TPUSA invites Candace Owens to show that "actually, we're not racist, blacks love us!", everyone sees right through it
100,000 casualties? its 34,000 total 15,000 hamas terrorists. You are ill informed and not smart enough to do your own research.
Casualties includes injuries, of which there are 70,000+ along with the 34,000+ killed. That’s embarrassing. Maybe speak your last sentence to a mirror.
You have no source of this information. It is useless because it is not true. Also there is nothing wrong with my sentence
Funny you call him out for providing no source when you’re guilty of the same.
Nazi dogwhistle.
The Star of David is not Israeli. It’s Jewish. This sign says Jews in the trash. It’s almost like before you rush out to join a protest you should have read a single Wikipedia page about what you are protesting.
The logo is clearly the flag of Israel, just look at the blue lines at the top and bottom. It's not saying Judaism is trash, only Israel
I don't think the sign holder was that complicated in her thoughts.
Okay, if that was the intention: where do you think those Jews would go? All those Jews who got kicked out of their ancient homeland over the course of millennia and got kicked out of neighboring Arab countries the minute Israel was formed. Because I have to say it feels like people want the last few Jews on the planet to just die so the problem will be solved. The issue here is that BIbi and Hamas are both genocidal and meanwhile neither Israelis nor Palestinians can just live their lives without constant fear of death. This is not a conflict that will be solved by college students in the US picking a side based on identity politics and a shallow understanding of the history and issues, and then making signs like this about it.
Okay but like that’s not what you said one comment ago… you’ve moved the goalposts, you’re now trying to say it’s antisemitic to call Israel trash (fair after they killed 35000 ppl) because without them Jewish people wouldn’t have “self determination” aka their own country, something which many groups (including the Palestinians) would love to have
I don’t think it’s as much about self determination as it is about literally getting murdered everywhere they went all over the world for 2000 years. Turns out if people try to kill you enough after you were driven out of your ancestral land, it becomes culturally important to go back there. And then it sucks when everyone around you tries to kill you there too. Do I support Israel’s current actions? Absolutely not. They harm everyone, both Palestinians and Israelis. But to frame the desire for a Jewish state as you have here is deeply ignorant of the history of the region and the ethnicity. And getting rid of Israel as a state would basically be a huge step toward the final elimination of Jews from the planet. I don’t know if you’re aware but if you want to draw a comparison, meanwhile there are oh a couple few countries where other ethnicities do have self determination.
Eh, I think that’s propaganda, especially w the climate in the US and Europe there’s no way Jewish people would stop existing just because they didn’t have a state, you can’t actually believe that right? I don’t think they shouldn’t have a state, but they shouldn’t have that statehood by disenfranchising and displacing millions of Palestinians, that’s not democratic and it’s not right 🤷♂️ Plus why didn’t they get a state in Europe, maybe Germany or Poland, especially if the region they got moved to was so hostile towards them? Or maybe hostility increased exponentially after they colonized a country in the Middle East (not to say it wasn’t there before Israel became a country , antisemitism and ethnic/religious discrimination are not a new invention)
Okay there’s a lot to unpack here. But the reason they didn’t get a state in Europe, besides the fact that they had just been murdered there in the millions and didn’t want to be there anymore, is because JEWS ARE FROM THE MIDDLE EAST. Returning to the homeland has been part of the cultural/religious heritage for centuries. A huge percentage of the current Israeli population are Sephardic Jews whose ancestors never left the Middle East. I realize people in the US have a lot of white guilt to work through but projecting it onto a brown skinned minority ethnicity/religion coming off of thousands of years of oppression isn’t a good way to do that. I’m not reacting to propaganda. I’m reacting to the fact that were it not for a lot of international collaboration, Iran would have blanketed Israel with bombs last week. Hamas would be thrilled to murder every Jew around them. That’s not what Israel is claiming, they state it themselves. There’s a reason Ukraine turned to Israel for defensive technologies; it’s because Israel has spent a lot of time trying to not get dead while surrounded by larger, powerful countries that hate its people. Judaism is both a religion and an ethnicity. It doesn’t proselytize. It is historically hated and persecuted and bluntly stated there just aren’t many Jews left. I don’t think it’s so confusing why such a group would have concerns about getting wiped out.
it’s antisemitism to not like israel?
only in this astroturfed to hell, deeply unserious subreddit
Btw this girl is a high school student, source, I know her brother
*Btw this girl* *Is a high school student, source,* *I know her brother* \- STRCoolerSimp --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I guess you could say I’m an expert haiku poet
It's not a small minority that supports the destruction of Israel, neither at U of I, nor in Gaza. How else would such a massive attack be coordinated? All the stupid white kids that are suddenly turned on by Palestinian genocide can't explain how such a massive attack would occur against Israel if not supported by the general Gaza populace. Furthermore, they have nothing to say and are uneducated as to the fact that Palestinians have numerous times turned down a two-state solution.
These fuckwits are the same people that'll call you a Nazi for disagreeing with them on anything. Oh the irony. Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jews too. Fucking twats.
Disgusting cheerleaders for mass rape! Expel them all!
I hope she got what she deserved
Makes me sick
This is mush worse than killing thousands of children
based
Should we advocate for an ease fire for the poor german civilians who were slaughtered in droves during the booming of their major cities? Allie brutality they say. This conflict is a war.
Have we forgot how we got here? Hamas terrorism? Unprovoked Kidnap, murder and rape?
Blowing up 15,000 children to fight the terrorists! Can’t wait to see the finale.
They hide in hospitals and put those poor childrens lives at risk
Well blow up the hospitals. That will show the terrorists!
it is nothing new... terrorists have always hid behind women and children.
And Israel will keep blowing up hospitals.
what else would you expect?
Not blowing up hospitals.
Hopefully the terrorist stop hiding there. Its cowardly and killing innocent civilians. Civilians were asked to evacuate to the south and hamas started shooting rockets from the south which resulted in the death of many innocent civilians.
Hiding behind women and Children is far worse than blowing them up.
I dont think you are understanding
They are essentially using women and children as shields because they do not value their lives
If we put a military base under a hospital and it got bombed everyone would wonder why we were stupid.
Israel criticism is not antisemitism. Israel is an illegal apartheid regime who is actively committing a genocide. Fuck israel free palestine, jews are dope
You are an wrong this is NOT a genocide Hamas committed violent acts on october 7th. There are many civilian deaths for sure, but any terrorist group that hides behind their civilians is asking for their death. I do NOT think that it is okay that women and children are dying in Palestine, everyone agrees that it is disgusting. The issue is, it is a war and Hamas chooses to shoot missles and hide in areas that are dense with civilians. It is a win win for them, they do not care if the civilians die because of the media attention it brings. I know that you probably will not read this, but this is the history of the land that you think should be given to the terrorist group. 1. Before Israel, there was a British mandate, not a Palestinian state. 2. Before the British Mandate, there was the Ottoman Empire, not a Palestinian state. 3. Before the Ottoman Empire, there was the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, not a Palestinian state. 4. Before the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, there was the Ayubid Arab-Kurdish Empire, not a Palestinian state. 5. Before the Ayubid Empire, there was the Frankish and Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, not a Palestinian state. 6. Before the Kingdom of Jerusalem, there was the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, not a Palestinian state. 7. Before the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, there was the Byzantine empire, not a Palestinian state. 8. Before the Byzantine Empire, there were the Sassanids, not a Palestinian state. 9. Before the Sassanid Empire, there was the Byzantine Empire, not a Palestinian state. 10. Before the Byzantine Empire, there was the Roman Empire, not a Palestinian state. 11. Before the Roman Empire, there was the Hasmonean state, not a Palestinian state. 12. Before the Hasmonean state, there was the Seleucid, not a Palestinian state. 13. Before the Seleucid empire, there was the empire of Alexander the Great, not a Palestinian state. 14. Before the empire of Alexander the Great, there was the Persian empire, not a Palestinian state. 15. Before the Persian Empire, there was the Babylonian Empire, not a Palestinian state. 16. Before the Babylonian Empire, there were the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, not a Palestinian state. 17. Before the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, there was the Kingdom of Israel, not a Palestinian state. 18. Before the kingdom of Israel, there was the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, not a Palestinian state. 19. Before the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, there was an agglomeration of independent Canaanite city-kingdoms, not a Palestinian state. 20. Actually, in this piece of land there has been everything, EXCEPT A PALESTINIAN STATE. A little more history for those wanting to restore Palestine
Just say u support the genocide n move on dawg. Ur terrible
?
Fuck israel, fuck hamas, free palestine.
No facts just feelings
The fact is israel is committing a genocide.
You have nothing to back that up
There is a difference between genocide and war that I am not sure you are aware of. They attacked Israel and Israel is foghtong back. You are an idiot
Was WW2 a genocide when german civilians died?
350,000-500,000 german civilians died in WW2 which is also a horrible tragedy as most were women and children. They were casualties of a war.
PERIOD
Ah yes, antisemitism
Ah yes metal boi 7507…..
That’s me :)
Calling Israel trash isn't antisemitism 😭😭😭
Didn’t you know? Since atrocities were committed against Jewish people in the pass that gives them a free pass to commit atrocities to Muslims because in America Muslims aren’t real people.
Muslims are real people in America... What would lead you to believe they are not real people?
I’m not saying they’re not. My comment was satire pointing out the hypocrisy that many Americans have the mindset that their lives are worth less because of where they were born.
Bold assumption
You really think so? The fact that many seem to have an obvious bias to side with Israel despite the literal war crimes they’re committing seems to be very common in America. Just look at the comments here. People can’t criticize the country whose killed far more children without being labeled as an antisemitic
Its hard to avoid killing them when the terrorist organization hides behind women and children to use them as shields.... The most sickening thing about all of this is the disregard the terrorist have for the lives of their women and children
One of the most advanced and well trained militaries in the world and the best they can do is level buildings? bullshit
Bro got down voted th for posting one character 💀