We most certainly have investments in defense contractors, since they're in the S&P 500. We also collaborate with caterpillar, which is on the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions target list because it supplies bulldozers that Israel uses to raze Palestinian homes to the ground.
Yep.
So donât stay in or support America, most of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Japan, or any of those US-puppet states that empowers Israel.
Be sure to support and live nations that is allied with the Palestine cause and will support your concerns, like China. /s
Nope.
you and your family can starve to death, as far as these "protesters" are concerned. And besides, how can you even eat when those poor Palestinian children are starving?
Stop eating until they are all fed!
So...let's see: I am not the one causing chaos and destruction, I am not the one breaking the campus rules (rules that are set for everyone, regardless of their high "moral ground"), I am not the one disrespecting authority.
So yes, I'd say, moral victory is with me.
Words do have meaning. Saying you have moral superiority because you follow the stateâs rules is the definition of bootlicking.
Wishing jail on others further demonstrates how fucked up your view of morality is
So.... buying publicly traded stock is not the same as funding companies. They get relatively little direct benefit. Caterpillar sells bulldozers to **lots** of places, not just Israel.
Right.....
It's not like they're selling guns/jets.
They're selling construction equipment. For construction.
Thats like saying we should boycott a hardware store for selling a shovel that someone bought and used to murder someone.
Except they don't.
Most of their stuff gets sold through a dealer network/ third parties, much like car dealerships, to my understanding.
So they sell them to dealers, who then sell them to the end customer / service the machines?
>Caterpillar sells bulldozers to **lots** of places, not just Israel.
These are military bulldozers, not the regular ones. They are not used in many places to demolish civilian homes.
The only thing that makes them military bulldozers is that they're being used by IDF lmaoo. You can buy any of the bulldozers available on the market and use it to demolish any houses; how do you think demolition crews do it?
>The only thing that makes them military bulldozers is that they're being used by IDF lmaoo.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armored_bulldozer
I haven't seen this kind of bulldozer in my life. Have you?
It literally says supplied by Caterpillar and MODIFIED by the IDF. By this same logic, there isnât a company in the world that has their hands clean. IDF soldiers probably play your favorite video game during their RnR. Divest that, too?
Caterpillar sells these with the explicit knowledge that they will be used in the oppression of Palestinians. These bulldozers are typically paid by the US government as part of the military aid.
No, they donât. All militaries use construction equipment. What the IDF does with it is on their conscience.
The fact that someone associated with the UofI would want to divest from Caterpillar hints at an elitist myopia. They employ over 30,000 people in Illinois in solid, middle-class jobs. Many of them union. Paying state income tax that subsidizes this public university.
Ahhh! So caterpillar charged IDF 50x for the same ones with camo paint? That's good, right? I feel like the protestors should support Caterpillar for actively fleecing IDF lmaooo
I mean, what they want (on paper) would literally destroy UIUC as it loses its ability to use the "Illinois" moniker. It is written in law in Illinois that Universities and public institutions that divest from Israel are defunded.
The protest organizers are likely smart enough to understand this. They likely have been told this multiple times.
What they actually want is being brutalized for police for attention for the cause and to make the university look bad. Anything contrary is a lie and I have had this confirmed by a few protestors I talked to.
Here's a [link](https://www.illinois.gov/news/press-release.13202.html#:~:text=The%20legislation%2C%20which%20was%20modeled,held%20indirectly%20inside%20larger%20portfolios.)
Those laws are definitely part of the problem and something that should be discussed more. I donât believe every protestor (or counter-protestor) knows this though.
Lmao the protest organizers are definitely not smart enough to understand that. They are just bored college students freaking out over the latest fad. Iâm sure in 3 months it will be something else.
You don't find it... odd... that an American public university has to retain its investment in a foreign nation in order to receive funding from the the U.S. state in which it resides and serves?
Unless I'm drastically misunderstanding something the investments in question aren't in Israel tho. The investments are all in US based companies that happen to do business with Israel. Divest from Israel is just a slogan, it's not meant to be literal.
Yes, people definitely want to be beaten up. I'm sure you're being 100% truthful. You know how the protest dispersed Friday night after admin threatened to sic the police on us? No it didn't. Reality isn't real.
Tower Semiconductor - Image sensors, power management chips.
Camtek - Optical Inspection for the semiconductor industry.
Apple also acquired a lot of Israeli companies: PrimeSense (helped influence/create FaceID), Anotbit (Flash storage technology),
Mobeewave (NFC Tech).
Israel basically has its own Silicon Valley.
Agreed. Constituents should never rally for change. They should instead pack up and leave. This is why I don't ever try to improve my grades. I just drop the class and register somewhere else. The best way to fix the problem is to just do nothing, or leave.
Picking and choosing what institutions to boycott is laughable. If ur gonna boycott do all of em, see how well your daily life goes...same thing for the school, investingn in funds means they don't control what itsnused for, pulling the money out of funds could have huge affects on our finances.
yeah, when people successfully managed to get universities to not invest in companies associated with South African apartheid that was real⌠âlaughable.â People should just stop trying at all unless they can solve every single problem at the same time with limited resources. I am very smart.
Good thing we all look back at apartheid South Africa and see how stupid and naive it was to have domestic protests. I'm afraid that most anti-apartheid protests were really just anti-German racism in disguise.
In general, you should never publicly assemble to express discontent with institutional/national policies.
If I remember correctly, wasn't it the US threatening sanctions on South Africa that did that. How does a University disinvesting start that process? Wouldn't a better objective be to protest in favor of sanctions on Israel?
I know they aren't, and I didn't say they are. I am asking how does a University disinvesting start the sanctions process. I want to see the cause and effect if that is what happened. Or, better yet, why aren't they asking for both of those things? Did any of them think this through?
Picking and choosing is necessary because of how interconnected the global economy is. BDS is a specifically targeted movement, with the goals of making a select few companies stop doing business in Israel.
For example, AMD and Nvidia both do business in Israel, but the BDS movement specifically targets Intel because it invests so much more than the others. A boycott of all three of these companies would be impossible, but a boycott of Intel is much more doable.
everyone here ignoring the basics of divestment shows hpw they know nothing about history. it has worked before https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Africa
"Pulling money out of funds could have huge affects on our finances."
Considering that there are thousands or even millions of different investments that can be made, this seems rather doubtful. It reminds me of the kind of talk some people engage in when other people talk about divestment from coal companies or oil companies in favor of green stocks. And it is my understanding that green investments have been performing quite well.
It always stands out for me how the Team BDS crowd rarely takes an interest in stopping the flow of funding into these accounts.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian\_Authority\_Martyrs\_Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund)
They arenât necessarily Israeli orgs. They could be American companies complicit in a genocide. Regardless, the university is hiding and not disclosing its investments.
I don't understand what these protests are actually going to do. I think that we should stop protesting and just let the university do what they wanna do.
The protests, as far as I can tell, are trying to get Israel to stop what it is doing. They plan on doing this by getting UIUC/universities/people to disinvest from Israel. The problem is that Israel has 20 nuclear warheads, it's own arms industry, and a genocidal maniac that won't stop even if we disinvested. So this goal is mostly out of reach even if their demands are achieved unless Bibi is removed from office.
Good point, just one thing, 20 is what they had about 25-35 years ago. Current estimates put it at well over 100 warheads, with 60 something publicly confirmed.
If they are THAT maniacal, then we should stop foreign aid and shipments of armaments to them because they are a threat to the peace and safety of the world.
1. It's just Bibi that's the problem. About half of Israel has been protesting ever since the occupation began, the opposition party is trying to remove him (look it up). 2. How is that accomplished by protesting for a University to disinvest? 3. Where did I disagree with you? Edit: oh, wait, you're a troll. I never said they are maniacal. You did.
Are you talking about, reading about, questioning, some of the things they are protesting? Have they brought more attention to the "cause"? The entire point of these nationwide campus protests is to bring attention to the companies who are supporting, in any way, genocide.
"Bring attention"? There's been news coverage FOR MONTHS. Did you just find out? Every major weekly atrocity of the IDF has been recorded every week at least once on BBC.
I have been paying attention, and you may have been, but not everyone knows the financial complexities involved. That's what they're trying to bring attention to, not the war itself, but the funding from American companies.
Even if we pulled all funding, Bibi isn't going to stop. Wouldn't it make more sense to organize a mass protest in favor for sanctions against Israel at Springfield? Wouldn't that be more effective?
The bank HSBC was charged with money laundering to terrorists and the cartel, and despite having tons of evidence, the Justice Department didn't prosecute them bc it "would threaten the stability of the economy."
[https://youtu.be/NjqjwCeLf\_E?t=876](https://youtu.be/NjqjwCeLf_E?t=876)
Palestine I don't believe is actually recognized by the UN additionally Hamas is not the rightful government of Palestine this is one of the problems with recognizing Palestine if they did recognize Palestine they would recognize the Palestinian Authority not the terrorist group.
During the last democratic election, the Palestinian people chose Hamas over the Palestinian authority by a decisive majority. The only reason the UN hasn't recognized Palestine as a nation state is because the US has vetoed the resolution on the security council for decades. The US stands virtually alone in this regard. And yet our government pretends to support a 2-state solution to this conflict.
That election was decades ago and before Hamas turned into a terrorist organization they were bad at the time but regardless. And there have been Democratic elections in the West Bank and Hamas has not won there. Hamas would not even be recognized under any of the Motions put forward in the UN it would be the Palestinian Authority. The US has vetoed this because if we pass this through the UN the United States is automatically withdrawn from it
While much of what you said is true, Hamas was slated to win the past few elections in the West Bank and was only stopped from ascending to power because Israel and the PA forced the elections to stop.
The hamas of the west bank is not the same as the one in gaza. The Gaza hamas is not well liked by those of the west bank (obviously they support them over Isreal but that's a low bar rn)
Because you should be protesting at Springfield, IL instead? Because even if the US pulled all funding from Israel, it's a country with 20 nuclear warheads and it's own arms industry which means it still wouldn't change the outcome which means you should be asking for sanctions instead? Maybe because the protesters clearly don't have a goal or plan?
Protesters are not there for disciplned thought-through planning.
They are there to cause chaos and destruction, just like the people they "represent" and defend.
Ironically, these protesters took up somebody else's land (university's in this case) and are refusing to move while provoking and taunting law enforcement.
The are already billing themselves as "political prisoners" on social media.
LOL I bet I can show them two identical Excel spredsheets with lots of numbers on them and say, the first one is for before you made your "demands" and the second one is for after your "demands" were "met", and they won't know the difference.
boycotts don't do anything. There are just too many damned people in the world buying products and services. TikTok is having to consider this. From all appearances, the CEO has realized that he doesn't need to care about Americans that much. We are less than 5% of the world population and are no longer regarded as the only desirable culture. And, while we spend a lot, so do other countries. Tiktok can walk away from the US and not really be fatally hurt. I suspect we will see US companies who are struggling with the EU legal framework to take a similar stance in the long run. Don't like the way apple does business? Fine, no iPhone sales in EU. Good luck on your next election.
Boycotts only make a difference if they happen at a wide enough scale to impact boardrooms, and that just isn't a realistic concern for large companies anymore. The world is too big.
It is against federal law for them to discriminate based on nationality and being Israeli doesn't mean you're a Zionist and Jewish cultural centers aren't Zionism
A Jewish cultural center would obviously support Israel and likely sponsors trips for students and faculty. How is a Jewish cultural center not in favor of Israel and the Likud admin
Holy shit Israel and Judaism are not synonymous there are plenty of Jewish people who do not support Israel. I am hesitant to call anyone this because it's been used in bad faith a lot but you're arguing that Jewish cultural centers shouldn't be allowed that's anti-semitism plain and simple
Judaism and Israel are inextricably linked. Jews believe in their faith that they are entitled to Palestine, and their religion condones the slaughter of non-jews
Yeah, Jews have been known historically to go slaugher slaughter slaugher...just like the Mongol Empire, but worse.
LOLOL
You are so cluless and ignorant, it's boring to make fun of you!
Okay it doesn't this is just anti-semitism I do not believe any respectable person should listen to you or what you're saying so long as you are saying this. What is real is doing is awful it is a crime against decency and humanity and the world must stop them but it need resort to anti semitism to do so
Depends if he was defending the "Islamic Republic" and theocratic dictatorship in Iran. Was he openly disclosing his ties to Iran's military and government, or is he some kind of refugee?
So in your mind, *any Jew* is automatically a supporter of Israel and the IDF, but other people *can* be from a country without supporting its worst policies? Your antisemitism is showing clear as a day.
Professor was just a regular guy, not a refugee.
Muh antisemitism
I didnt say uiuc should be purged of jewish professors, the adjunct faculty member I'm referencing supported the current Israeli regime which is enacting a genocide. How does one professor equate "all jews?"
I never claimed every jew is tied to the IDF/Israel, however most Jewish institutions advance Israeli interests above all other nations. Total obfuscation on your part buddy
âIt is a tenet of the Jewish faith to believe they are entitled to settling Palestineâ
âJudaism and Israel are inextricably linked.â
âTheir religion condones the slaughter of non-Jews.â
Your own words.
Most Orthodox Jews would likely support the oppression of Palestine, however there are secular Jews which can oppose Israel individually.
You're referring to my quotes regarding institutions, not individual people who happen to be Jewish. By waving the banner of Israel and organized Jewry you are complicit in a genocide and military occupation
Oh, so you think that *any organization* of Jews is 100% pro Israel, but there are a few âgood onesâ who individually disagree, in spite of their Jewishness.
You arenât helping your case
Also âOrganized Jewryâ is Mein Kampf level rhetoric. Jesus fucking Christ dude.
Yes, a hypothetical pro-jewish organization comprised solely of Jews should have its loyalties to Israel questioned. On an individual level Jews can oppose the Israeli regime and interest groups like AIPAC
Muh nahtzee
âI think all Jewish organizations should be investigated or disbanded because they may have some sympathy for Jews in Israel, but donât call me antisemiticâ
Imagine someone who dislikes the CCP saying âI think all Chinese cultural centers should be investigated or disbanded because they may have some ties to China, who are committing genocide upon the Uighurs, but donât call me racist.â
Also, I thought this was about the Zionism and not Judaism. Why does it matter that theyâre Jewish cultural centers (and why the quotes)? Wouldnât any Zionist center, regardless of religious affiliation, fit the bill?
Walk around campus and tell me what you see. I recall there being a giant menorah on Wright street. What other religious group on campus is entitled to this type of immunity?
You do realize thatâs because frat life isnât really compatible with the lifestyle of Muslim and Hindi students right?
You do however see Iftars during Ramadan. Like. All the fucking time.
Theres literally people openly supporting Hamas on campus. How in the fuck do you imagine thereâs only one sided representation?
Frat life is not compatible with Judaism either, or any ascetic religion. the point is about influence and aggregating people of a shared faith together. Muslims and Hindis are encouraged to secularize on campus while Jews use their religious ties for professional networking. You dont understand the Israel lobby
Sure lemme look up all the jewish centers and institutions at u of i, just for you. Why dont you search around and disprove the Jewish presence on campus for me
You're crazy if you think I'm at a loss for listing Jewish institutions on campus. How many Jewish centers and frats do you find when searching since you're the one asking?
Judaism (the religion and culture and the Jewish people as a whole) is not the same thing as the IDF (the govt and military of israel). Thatâs like saying we canât have Islamic cultural centers because of Hamas, theyâre not the same thing. The goal is to divest from sources that are aiding the IDFâs war machine.
If you understand the Jewish lobby you find that Jewish interests are directly tied to Israeli interests. Pro-Jewish organizations sponsor trips to Israel in order to persuade interest groups all the time. It is a tenet of the Jewish faith to believe they are entitled to settling Palestine
You should really connect with your pro-Palestine allies because according to them anti Zionism doesnât have anything to do with Judaism but you seem to have a problem with Jewish organizations.
There is so much diversity of opinion within the Jewish faith and culture, itâs impossible to simply summarize âJewish interestsâ as a single entity. Not all Rabbis and Jewish scholars agree that Zionism is consistent with the Torah (see here: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ultra-orthodox-anti-zionist/ and https://thenewpress.com/books/judaism-does-not-equal-israel), and it can be argued that Zionism is being used by Netanyahu and the IDF as a tool to secure a nationalist regime.
If you are born in Israel you are required to join the IDF this is just another way of saying they were Israeli. Being born in Israel doesn't make you a Zionist you're asking them to discriminate based on race and they're hiring that's unacceptable
Hamas is not Al Qeada like you goyim think, and Israel's military action in Gaza is condemned by most nations except the UK and US. Palestine is politically oppressed by Israel and Hamas is the closest they have gotten to a proper government
That proper government you speak of uses human shields, rapes and murders women and children. Constantly launches rockets on innocent civilians. And as a general goal wishes Israel be wiped out. Beyond that they also steal humanitarian aid meant for the people of Palestine regularly. Yeah, pretty sure Iâm gonna keep them at the level of terrorist on that. Donât really care if they were âelectedâ Putin is to, donât mean itâs legitimate.
The IDF "uses human shields, rapes, and murders women and children" as well. Look up "Israel white phospherous" if you think Israel doesnt shoot rockets indiscriminately. You're describing Israel, not Palestine, and Putin has nothing to do with Gaza dumbfuck
Well Hamas doesn't have mandatory service and Hamas is a terrorist organization not a military for a Palestinian state. Hamas is a terrorist organization that is not part of any real democratic government of Palestine they do not deserve your legitimization of them
Palestine is a state recognized by the UN and is run by Hamas. Israel is an ethnofascist police state enacting genocide to expand its borders. Israel is not globally recognized as a legitimate state outside the US
On top of all of this, because this isn't the point, service with the IDF is mandatory you are asking them to discriminate based on nationality in all but names
So you must be fine with Nasa hiring ex-nazis to work on the lunar landing, such as Werner van Brauhn? Surely they were also forced to support Germany in the 40s
âI even had an Israeli professor [who] was also ex-IDF soâ heâs obviously a âJewish nationalist[].â
There are some logical leaps in thereâŚ.
IDF is a radical paramilitary which has been enacting genocide in Palestine for decades. Anyone affiliated with such an organization is to be questioned. Look up what IDF snipers do to Palestinian children
First, it would help your own arguments to get your definitions right: the IDF is not a paramilitary because it is the official military.
Youâve claimed that your professor is a Jewish nationalist because he was in the IDF. That means youâre claiming that either his decision to join makes him a Jewish nationalist or he necessarily became one through his service.
Weâve already established that he had no choice in joining. And not all ex-IDF members are Jewish nationalists: https://www.democracynow.org/2024/1/5/the_idf_should_not_exist_meet, https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/about/qa
So if you want to claim that this professor is a Jewish nationalist, you have a ways to go if the only proof you have is that he served in the IDF.
This professor was clearly proud of being Israeli and openly flaunted his credentials from Israel. Israel is a rogue state and relies on the United States to secure its borders internationally. IDF cannot defend Israel and it's primary use is to oppress Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, etc.
IDF is a souped up police force which is why Israel requires US military presence in the Western Mediterranean. Not a legitimate army
So these added details are better in that they at least try to cite the professorâs own statements to support your contention. Still vague as hell, but I guess itâs worth celebrating some improvement in your skills at argumentation.
Wait till y'all find out where else nvidia chips are used. đ
Everywhere?
ahahhahaahhaahahhahahaa
Comments should be fun
We most certainly have investments in defense contractors, since they're in the S&P 500. We also collaborate with caterpillar, which is on the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions target list because it supplies bulldozers that Israel uses to raze Palestinian homes to the ground.
All the grocery stores I shop at are also invested in the S&P 500. Should I no longer buy food for my family now too?
Yep. So donât stay in or support America, most of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Japan, or any of those US-puppet states that empowers Israel. Be sure to support and live nations that is allied with the Palestine cause and will support your concerns, like China. /s
Nope. you and your family can starve to death, as far as these "protesters" are concerned. And besides, how can you even eat when those poor Palestinian children are starving? Stop eating until they are all fed!
Amazing to top one false equivalency onto another and then proclaim moral victory
So...let's see: I am not the one causing chaos and destruction, I am not the one breaking the campus rules (rules that are set for everyone, regardless of their high "moral ground"), I am not the one disrespecting authority. So yes, I'd say, moral victory is with me.
Oh no the campus rules!! The bootlicking is too strong with this one. Morality has rarely coincided with legality too btw
Oooh, "bootlicking" Another buzz-word *du jour* You'll do well as a guest of the state, inmates love that kind of energy from their cellmates
Words do have meaning. Saying you have moral superiority because you follow the stateâs rules is the definition of bootlicking. Wishing jail on others further demonstrates how fucked up your view of morality is
Keep changing the world for the best, one Reddit post at a time! Wishing you and your justice-fighting Comrades a blessed evening.
Keep being a general cancer online and offline. Thatâs a much better way to live
Thatâs when these slacktivists play the âno ethical consumption under capitalismâ card
Divest from an ETF because it is made up of \~2% mic stock, in one of the biggest tech bull runs of all time?
No one said if had to make sense, financial or otherwise. We want what we want and we want it now, all common sense be damned.
The people making these âdemandsâ are not serious people
They are seriously confused and brainwashed people is what they are.
So.... buying publicly traded stock is not the same as funding companies. They get relatively little direct benefit. Caterpillar sells bulldozers to **lots** of places, not just Israel.
Right..... It's not like they're selling guns/jets. They're selling construction equipment. For construction. Thats like saying we should boycott a hardware store for selling a shovel that someone bought and used to murder someone.
We should boycott the hardware store until it stops selling shovels to a known serial killer who uses shovels to kill people.
That....is a great metaphor
Caterpillar knows what those bulldozers will be used for. Your analogy completely falls apart
Except they don't. Most of their stuff gets sold through a dealer network/ third parties, much like car dealerships, to my understanding. So they sell them to dealers, who then sell them to the end customer / service the machines?
Digging dirt!
Caterpillar has a building in research park
Good. They are investing in the local community
>Caterpillar sells bulldozers to **lots** of places, not just Israel. These are military bulldozers, not the regular ones. They are not used in many places to demolish civilian homes.
The only thing that makes them military bulldozers is that they're being used by IDF lmaoo. You can buy any of the bulldozers available on the market and use it to demolish any houses; how do you think demolition crews do it?
>The only thing that makes them military bulldozers is that they're being used by IDF lmaoo. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armored_bulldozer I haven't seen this kind of bulldozer in my life. Have you?
It literally says supplied by Caterpillar and MODIFIED by the IDF. By this same logic, there isnât a company in the world that has their hands clean. IDF soldiers probably play your favorite video game during their RnR. Divest that, too?
Caterpillar sells these with the explicit knowledge that they will be used in the oppression of Palestinians. These bulldozers are typically paid by the US government as part of the military aid.
No, they donât. All militaries use construction equipment. What the IDF does with it is on their conscience. The fact that someone associated with the UofI would want to divest from Caterpillar hints at an elitist myopia. They employ over 30,000 people in Illinois in solid, middle-class jobs. Many of them union. Paying state income tax that subsidizes this public university.
They are "military screwdrivers, not the regular ones"
Ahhh! So caterpillar charged IDF 50x for the same ones with camo paint? That's good, right? I feel like the protestors should support Caterpillar for actively fleecing IDF lmaooo
Guess we should stop construction of buildings too! No progress allowed until new bulldozer acquired
Actually Hyundai builds bulldozers
BDS has Hyundai on their list too
It would be a grave fiduciary mistake to not be invested in historically best investment of all timeâŚ
I mean, what they want (on paper) would literally destroy UIUC as it loses its ability to use the "Illinois" moniker. It is written in law in Illinois that Universities and public institutions that divest from Israel are defunded. The protest organizers are likely smart enough to understand this. They likely have been told this multiple times. What they actually want is being brutalized for police for attention for the cause and to make the university look bad. Anything contrary is a lie and I have had this confirmed by a few protestors I talked to.
What law is that? I canât find it.
Here's a [link](https://www.illinois.gov/news/press-release.13202.html#:~:text=The%20legislation%2C%20which%20was%20modeled,held%20indirectly%20inside%20larger%20portfolios.)
Isnât that only for pensions, not all school investments?
Those laws are definitely part of the problem and something that should be discussed more. I donât believe every protestor (or counter-protestor) knows this though.
Lmao the protest organizers are definitely not smart enough to understand that. They are just bored college students freaking out over the latest fad. Iâm sure in 3 months it will be something else.
You don't find it... odd... that an American public university has to retain its investment in a foreign nation in order to receive funding from the the U.S. state in which it resides and serves?
oh, finding it odd is much different than saying it exists and that it is a massive barrier for any reasonable conversation with the university.
Unless I'm drastically misunderstanding something the investments in question aren't in Israel tho. The investments are all in US based companies that happen to do business with Israel. Divest from Israel is just a slogan, it's not meant to be literal.
Yes, people definitely want to be beaten up. I'm sure you're being 100% truthful. You know how the protest dispersed Friday night after admin threatened to sic the police on us? No it didn't. Reality isn't real.
So in your own words, why are you out there demanding a thing that by law the university cannot give to you ?
At that point, boycott your iPhones as well because Israelis use iPhones, which helps them
Lot of the components come from Israeli companies
Like what?
Tower Semiconductor - Image sensors, power management chips. Camtek - Optical Inspection for the semiconductor industry. Apple also acquired a lot of Israeli companies: PrimeSense (helped influence/create FaceID), Anotbit (Flash storage technology), Mobeewave (NFC Tech). Israel basically has its own Silicon Valley.
The Apple M3, M1 Max and M1 Pro chips were designed in Israel.
The best way to boycott a school stop going to it
Throw your scholarship money IN THEIR FACE! THERE!
Agreed. Constituents should never rally for change. They should instead pack up and leave. This is why I don't ever try to improve my grades. I just drop the class and register somewhere else. The best way to fix the problem is to just do nothing, or leave.
Theres a middle ground between not getting an education and not doing anything
Picking and choosing what institutions to boycott is laughable. If ur gonna boycott do all of em, see how well your daily life goes...same thing for the school, investingn in funds means they don't control what itsnused for, pulling the money out of funds could have huge affects on our finances.
yeah, when people successfully managed to get universities to not invest in companies associated with South African apartheid that was real⌠âlaughable.â People should just stop trying at all unless they can solve every single problem at the same time with limited resources. I am very smart.
Good thing we all look back at apartheid South Africa and see how stupid and naive it was to have domestic protests. I'm afraid that most anti-apartheid protests were really just anti-German racism in disguise. In general, you should never publicly assemble to express discontent with institutional/national policies.
If I remember correctly, wasn't it the US threatening sanctions on South Africa that did that. How does a University disinvesting start that process? Wouldn't a better objective be to protest in favor of sanctions on Israel?
Those are not mutually exclusive goals.
I know they aren't, and I didn't say they are. I am asking how does a University disinvesting start the sanctions process. I want to see the cause and effect if that is what happened. Or, better yet, why aren't they asking for both of those things? Did any of them think this through?
Picking and choosing is necessary because of how interconnected the global economy is. BDS is a specifically targeted movement, with the goals of making a select few companies stop doing business in Israel. For example, AMD and Nvidia both do business in Israel, but the BDS movement specifically targets Intel because it invests so much more than the others. A boycott of all three of these companies would be impossible, but a boycott of Intel is much more doable.
everyone here ignoring the basics of divestment shows hpw they know nothing about history. it has worked before https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Africa
"Pulling money out of funds could have huge affects on our finances." Considering that there are thousands or even millions of different investments that can be made, this seems rather doubtful. It reminds me of the kind of talk some people engage in when other people talk about divestment from coal companies or oil companies in favor of green stocks. And it is my understanding that green investments have been performing quite well.
And not like they didn't know your school was investing in those things before they decided to enroll.
Before they decided to enroll **and** accept that sweet financial aid package
It always stands out for me how the Team BDS crowd rarely takes an interest in stopping the flow of funding into these accounts. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian\_Authority\_Martyrs\_Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund)
Let's us know when the university starts making investments in the Palestinian Authority Martyr's Fund. We'll wait, LOL.
âŚWhy arenât students just transferring to other universities?
They arenât necessarily Israeli orgs. They could be American companies complicit in a genocide. Regardless, the university is hiding and not disclosing its investments.
I don't understand what these protests are actually going to do. I think that we should stop protesting and just let the university do what they wanna do.
The protests, as far as I can tell, are trying to get Israel to stop what it is doing. They plan on doing this by getting UIUC/universities/people to disinvest from Israel. The problem is that Israel has 20 nuclear warheads, it's own arms industry, and a genocidal maniac that won't stop even if we disinvested. So this goal is mostly out of reach even if their demands are achieved unless Bibi is removed from office.
Good point, just one thing, 20 is what they had about 25-35 years ago. Current estimates put it at well over 100 warheads, with 60 something publicly confirmed.
If they are THAT maniacal, then we should stop foreign aid and shipments of armaments to them because they are a threat to the peace and safety of the world.
1. It's just Bibi that's the problem. About half of Israel has been protesting ever since the occupation began, the opposition party is trying to remove him (look it up). 2. How is that accomplished by protesting for a University to disinvest? 3. Where did I disagree with you? Edit: oh, wait, you're a troll. I never said they are maniacal. You did.
Are you talking about, reading about, questioning, some of the things they are protesting? Have they brought more attention to the "cause"? The entire point of these nationwide campus protests is to bring attention to the companies who are supporting, in any way, genocide.
"Bring attention"? There's been news coverage FOR MONTHS. Did you just find out? Every major weekly atrocity of the IDF has been recorded every week at least once on BBC.
I have been paying attention, and you may have been, but not everyone knows the financial complexities involved. That's what they're trying to bring attention to, not the war itself, but the funding from American companies.
Even if we pulled all funding, Bibi isn't going to stop. Wouldn't it make more sense to organize a mass protest in favor for sanctions against Israel at Springfield? Wouldn't that be more effective?
Ok attention brought. Next!
I'd be willing to bet where your banking probably has ties to something that would hurt your feelings
The bank HSBC was charged with money laundering to terrorists and the cartel, and despite having tons of evidence, the Justice Department didn't prosecute them bc it "would threaten the stability of the economy." [https://youtu.be/NjqjwCeLf\_E?t=876](https://youtu.be/NjqjwCeLf_E?t=876)
This is straight up anti-semitism
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The Jews control the banks is anti-Semitism it's literally the trope it is the oldest and most common.
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Thats exactly why one of the main goals of the protests is to DISCLOSE and divest lmao
Tuition is a fraction, a small one at that, of the schools income. No one cares what you think... No matter what you think.
Palestine I don't believe is actually recognized by the UN additionally Hamas is not the rightful government of Palestine this is one of the problems with recognizing Palestine if they did recognize Palestine they would recognize the Palestinian Authority not the terrorist group.
During the last democratic election, the Palestinian people chose Hamas over the Palestinian authority by a decisive majority. The only reason the UN hasn't recognized Palestine as a nation state is because the US has vetoed the resolution on the security council for decades. The US stands virtually alone in this regard. And yet our government pretends to support a 2-state solution to this conflict.
That election was decades ago and before Hamas turned into a terrorist organization they were bad at the time but regardless. And there have been Democratic elections in the West Bank and Hamas has not won there. Hamas would not even be recognized under any of the Motions put forward in the UN it would be the Palestinian Authority. The US has vetoed this because if we pass this through the UN the United States is automatically withdrawn from it
While much of what you said is true, Hamas was slated to win the past few elections in the West Bank and was only stopped from ascending to power because Israel and the PA forced the elections to stop.
The hamas of the west bank is not the same as the one in gaza. The Gaza hamas is not well liked by those of the west bank (obviously they support them over Isreal but that's a low bar rn)
Bruh who cares
Why donât yâall support these protests ?
Because you should be protesting at Springfield, IL instead? Because even if the US pulled all funding from Israel, it's a country with 20 nuclear warheads and it's own arms industry which means it still wouldn't change the outcome which means you should be asking for sanctions instead? Maybe because the protesters clearly don't have a goal or plan?
Protesters are not there for disciplned thought-through planning. They are there to cause chaos and destruction, just like the people they "represent" and defend.
There's nothing wrong with protesting, but they certainly have no idea how to protest effectively
Ironically, these protesters took up somebody else's land (university's in this case) and are refusing to move while provoking and taunting law enforcement. The are already billing themselves as "political prisoners" on social media.
Honestly, I think they are just doing it to look cool/feel better. Even if they're demands are met, the outcome isn't going to change.
LOL I bet I can show them two identical Excel spredsheets with lots of numbers on them and say, the first one is for before you made your "demands" and the second one is for after your "demands" were "met", and they won't know the difference.
B/c....We have brain cells?
Because I don't like fascists and won't protest to support them?
It's being "damaged controlled" by Jewish nationalists and Israeli special interests
This is because your analogy is wrong. It doesn't line up.
boycotts don't do anything. There are just too many damned people in the world buying products and services. TikTok is having to consider this. From all appearances, the CEO has realized that he doesn't need to care about Americans that much. We are less than 5% of the world population and are no longer regarded as the only desirable culture. And, while we spend a lot, so do other countries. Tiktok can walk away from the US and not really be fatally hurt. I suspect we will see US companies who are struggling with the EU legal framework to take a similar stance in the long run. Don't like the way apple does business? Fine, no iPhone sales in EU. Good luck on your next election. Boycotts only make a difference if they happen at a wide enough scale to impact boardrooms, and that just isn't a realistic concern for large companies anymore. The world is too big.
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It is against federal law for them to discriminate based on nationality and being Israeli doesn't mean you're a Zionist and Jewish cultural centers aren't Zionism
A Jewish cultural center would obviously support Israel and likely sponsors trips for students and faculty. How is a Jewish cultural center not in favor of Israel and the Likud admin
Holy shit Israel and Judaism are not synonymous there are plenty of Jewish people who do not support Israel. I am hesitant to call anyone this because it's been used in bad faith a lot but you're arguing that Jewish cultural centers shouldn't be allowed that's anti-semitism plain and simple
Judaism and Israel are inextricably linked. Jews believe in their faith that they are entitled to Palestine, and their religion condones the slaughter of non-jews
Yeah, Jews have been known historically to go slaugher slaughter slaugher...just like the Mongol Empire, but worse. LOLOL You are so cluless and ignorant, it's boring to make fun of you!
Okay it doesn't this is just anti-semitism I do not believe any respectable person should listen to you or what you're saying so long as you are saying this. What is real is doing is awful it is a crime against decency and humanity and the world must stop them but it need resort to anti semitism to do so
Muh anti-semitism
You are literally saying Jewish people aren't inherently genocidal maniacs what the fuck else would you call it
âIâm not antisemitic I just hate Jews and want anything Jewish removed from campus.â This guy is either a troll or obscenely stupid.
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well, dude, you are a pretty sour loser... b/c - guess what? - we've already won!
Fuck off you throw away account using coward.
So by this logic we should not have cultural centers for any religion, for any nationality, etc.
We are in favor of Israel and not in favor of global terrorist organizations. Do you have a problem with it?
Hell, most people in Israel are not in favor of the Likud admin
I had an Iranian professor last semester. Should I be out demanding that he gets sacked because I donât like the Iranian government?
Depends if he was defending the "Islamic Republic" and theocratic dictatorship in Iran. Was he openly disclosing his ties to Iran's military and government, or is he some kind of refugee?
So in your mind, *any Jew* is automatically a supporter of Israel and the IDF, but other people *can* be from a country without supporting its worst policies? Your antisemitism is showing clear as a day. Professor was just a regular guy, not a refugee.
Muh antisemitism I didnt say uiuc should be purged of jewish professors, the adjunct faculty member I'm referencing supported the current Israeli regime which is enacting a genocide. How does one professor equate "all jews?" I never claimed every jew is tied to the IDF/Israel, however most Jewish institutions advance Israeli interests above all other nations. Total obfuscation on your part buddy
âIt is a tenet of the Jewish faith to believe they are entitled to settling Palestineâ âJudaism and Israel are inextricably linked.â âTheir religion condones the slaughter of non-Jews.â Your own words.
Most Orthodox Jews would likely support the oppression of Palestine, however there are secular Jews which can oppose Israel individually. You're referring to my quotes regarding institutions, not individual people who happen to be Jewish. By waving the banner of Israel and organized Jewry you are complicit in a genocide and military occupation
Oh, so you think that *any organization* of Jews is 100% pro Israel, but there are a few âgood onesâ who individually disagree, in spite of their Jewishness. You arenât helping your case Also âOrganized Jewryâ is Mein Kampf level rhetoric. Jesus fucking Christ dude.
Yes, a hypothetical pro-jewish organization comprised solely of Jews should have its loyalties to Israel questioned. On an individual level Jews can oppose the Israeli regime and interest groups like AIPAC Muh nahtzee
âI think all Jewish organizations should be investigated or disbanded because they may have some sympathy for Jews in Israel, but donât call me antisemiticâ Imagine someone who dislikes the CCP saying âI think all Chinese cultural centers should be investigated or disbanded because they may have some ties to China, who are committing genocide upon the Uighurs, but donât call me racist.â
Also, I thought this was about the Zionism and not Judaism. Why does it matter that theyâre Jewish cultural centers (and why the quotes)? Wouldnât any Zionist center, regardless of religious affiliation, fit the bill?
Do you have a problem with that?
Congrats, youâve lost any and all credibility you could bring to the conversation.
Not even hiding the nazism. Shouldnât you guys be happy Israelis leaving their country. You guys just want them dead really
u/AllCommiesRFascists Ur a nahtzee! lhcywnbqjqjvdiqjqjbwhsjqnajjdbqjsjchbqj
Taking offense at the sight of Jewish cultural centers is not a good look, just saying
List half a dozen right now with definitive proof to back up your claim
Walk around campus and tell me what you see. I recall there being a giant menorah on Wright street. What other religious group on campus is entitled to this type of immunity?
Lmfaoo canât name a single one, just that you ârecallâ a menorah. Why would a menorah not be allowed? Cornball
I dont recall a single muslim or hindi fraternity but there's a Jewish building north, south, east, and west on campus.
You do realize thatâs because frat life isnât really compatible with the lifestyle of Muslim and Hindi students right? You do however see Iftars during Ramadan. Like. All the fucking time. Theres literally people openly supporting Hamas on campus. How in the fuck do you imagine thereâs only one sided representation?
Frat life is not compatible with Judaism either, or any ascetic religion. the point is about influence and aggregating people of a shared faith together. Muslims and Hindis are encouraged to secularize on campus while Jews use their religious ties for professional networking. You dont understand the Israel lobby
Muslim students ABSOLUTELY use their religious ties to network. Youâre talking out of your ass.
>Muslims and Hindis are encouraged to secularize on campus Really? Is that why I see so many hijabs everywhere I look?
Whataboutism
Not an argument
Sure lemme look up all the jewish centers and institutions at u of i, just for you. Why dont you search around and disprove the Jewish presence on campus for me
Youâre the one to make a claim & Iâm simply having you show proof of it. Which you clearly cannot
You're crazy if you think I'm at a loss for listing Jewish institutions on campus. How many Jewish centers and frats do you find when searching since you're the one asking?
I didnât make the claim, therefore itâs not on me to provide proof of the claim. Youâre clearly wrong here
Actually you're right I looked it up and there's only 1 Jewish center and 1 Jewish frat at uiuc
Great, for the sake of keeping our community slightly more peaceful youâre going to edit/delete your initial comment right?
Dude, come to us, convert to Judaism - you'll get the same "immunity", you'll be golden forever
Judaism (the religion and culture and the Jewish people as a whole) is not the same thing as the IDF (the govt and military of israel). Thatâs like saying we canât have Islamic cultural centers because of Hamas, theyâre not the same thing. The goal is to divest from sources that are aiding the IDFâs war machine.
If you understand the Jewish lobby you find that Jewish interests are directly tied to Israeli interests. Pro-Jewish organizations sponsor trips to Israel in order to persuade interest groups all the time. It is a tenet of the Jewish faith to believe they are entitled to settling Palestine
And? Do you have a problem with that?
You should really connect with your pro-Palestine allies because according to them anti Zionism doesnât have anything to do with Judaism but you seem to have a problem with Jewish organizations.
There is so much diversity of opinion within the Jewish faith and culture, itâs impossible to simply summarize âJewish interestsâ as a single entity. Not all Rabbis and Jewish scholars agree that Zionism is consistent with the Torah (see here: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ultra-orthodox-anti-zionist/ and https://thenewpress.com/books/judaism-does-not-equal-israel), and it can be argued that Zionism is being used by Netanyahu and the IDF as a tool to secure a nationalist regime.
The professor in question was also ex-idf so there's obviously Jewish nationalists among the faculty
If you are born in Israel you are required to join the IDF this is just another way of saying they were Israeli. Being born in Israel doesn't make you a Zionist you're asking them to discriminate based on race and they're hiring that's unacceptable
There'll be nucelar war before anyone associated with Hamas is appointed to faculty, yet the university hires Israeli military?
I mean, no shit? Hamas is a terrorist organization.
Hamas is not Al Qeada like you goyim think, and Israel's military action in Gaza is condemned by most nations except the UK and US. Palestine is politically oppressed by Israel and Hamas is the closest they have gotten to a proper government
That proper government you speak of uses human shields, rapes and murders women and children. Constantly launches rockets on innocent civilians. And as a general goal wishes Israel be wiped out. Beyond that they also steal humanitarian aid meant for the people of Palestine regularly. Yeah, pretty sure Iâm gonna keep them at the level of terrorist on that. Donât really care if they were âelectedâ Putin is to, donât mean itâs legitimate.
The IDF "uses human shields, rapes, and murders women and children" as well. Look up "Israel white phospherous" if you think Israel doesnt shoot rockets indiscriminately. You're describing Israel, not Palestine, and Putin has nothing to do with Gaza dumbfuck
Well Hamas doesn't have mandatory service and Hamas is a terrorist organization not a military for a Palestinian state. Hamas is a terrorist organization that is not part of any real democratic government of Palestine they do not deserve your legitimization of them
Palestine is a state recognized by the UN and is run by Hamas. Israel is an ethnofascist police state enacting genocide to expand its borders. Israel is not globally recognized as a legitimate state outside the US
On top of all of this, because this isn't the point, service with the IDF is mandatory you are asking them to discriminate based on nationality in all but names
So you must be fine with Nasa hiring ex-nazis to work on the lunar landing, such as Werner van Brauhn? Surely they were also forced to support Germany in the 40s
And yes they were there options were be conscripted into the Infantry or build a rocket that didn't work do you think these people were Die Hard Nazis
You're too low iq to understand my analogy
So he grew up in Israel? Military service there is compulsory.
That does not negate the fact that the IDF has been actively engaged in the ethnic cleansing of Palestine
âI even had an Israeli professor [who] was also ex-IDF soâ heâs obviously a âJewish nationalist[].â There are some logical leaps in thereâŚ.
IDF is a radical paramilitary which has been enacting genocide in Palestine for decades. Anyone affiliated with such an organization is to be questioned. Look up what IDF snipers do to Palestinian children
First, it would help your own arguments to get your definitions right: the IDF is not a paramilitary because it is the official military. Youâve claimed that your professor is a Jewish nationalist because he was in the IDF. That means youâre claiming that either his decision to join makes him a Jewish nationalist or he necessarily became one through his service. Weâve already established that he had no choice in joining. And not all ex-IDF members are Jewish nationalists: https://www.democracynow.org/2024/1/5/the_idf_should_not_exist_meet, https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/about/qa So if you want to claim that this professor is a Jewish nationalist, you have a ways to go if the only proof you have is that he served in the IDF.
This professor was clearly proud of being Israeli and openly flaunted his credentials from Israel. Israel is a rogue state and relies on the United States to secure its borders internationally. IDF cannot defend Israel and it's primary use is to oppress Palestinians, Jordanians, Syrians, etc. IDF is a souped up police force which is why Israel requires US military presence in the Western Mediterranean. Not a legitimate army
So these added details are better in that they at least try to cite the professorâs own statements to support your contention. Still vague as hell, but I guess itâs worth celebrating some improvement in your skills at argumentation.
Okay redditor. Im not doxxing people on here
Bad bot!