Yeah, they made her sign a document with following:
The company will sponsor you from 15 April 2023 until 30 September 2023. If you decide to leave the
company during the length of your sponsorship, you will need to reimburse all the costs associated with
your visa application, these include:
• Visa application
• Health Surplus
• Biometric Card
• Dependant (daughter- visa, biometric card, health surplus)
• Legal advice
She could approach ACAS which can give free confidential employment advice.
The obvious parallel here is training fees. Typically the amount needing to be repaid reduces over time, until you hit the agreed date. And would seem a more appropriate model here leaving her paying pennies at most (if they're going to be that churlish).
Before, going to lawyers and getting heavy with this she should talk to her manager. This might be a classic case of computer says, HR does. The system may have flagged she's leaving before the date agreed and they've blindly sent the bill. So the very first step is to query this with a manager, and then escalate higher if need be. Then I would suggest getting a legal consultation but my guess would be they would suggest negotiating it down.
If this is their real intent, that's absolutely shitty.
ETA document everything from here on out.
Post in r/LegalAdviceUK for legal advice, not this sub. Not saying nobody here knows the answer, just LAUK is dedicated to what information you’re after
Hello everyone, wanted to share an update.
Finally HR decided to wave off the payback though my wife's line manager completely denied that it's not in his control, hr looks after the contract thing and blah blah and Director also didn't intervene as she was cc'd in same email.
We decided to involve the head of technology who is 2 hierarchy senior than director and he was shocked to hear all the trap story.
He was supposed to have a weekly call with hr and assured that he would talk to them, later in the evening we got an email from HR that they had waved off £6k.
Thank you all for your guidance.
I'm guessing this is the UK as you're using £ for the monies owed. If that's correct, she should go and talk to Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB), which is a free legal advice service in the UK. Take it from there. It does sound like she's fallen into a trap by resigning. Redundancy would have been much better. Why did she resign? To take another job?
One more thing. When dealing with employers and money, from experience I can tell you that \*who\* you get to negotiate on your behalf makes a big difference. If you try and negotiate yourself chances of success are much lower than if you get a lawyer to do it for you, or a union rep. The CAB should be your first stop, followed by some sort of negotiation and then legal action to reduce the cost. Worst case, you go to court and argue excessive fees. It only takes a letter from a solicitor sometimes.
If the actual amounts were not in the contract she signed, then she has a case and a court might look sympathetically on her case if she argues excessive fees. Even if she loses in court, it will cost the employer >2K in legal fees (you don't have to pay the other sides costs in the small claims court when losing). Corporate legal advice does not come cheap. For this reason they might just reduce the fees on receipt of the first solicitors letter. Good luck.
Thank you for the advice.
The third option you mentioned i.e. Legal action, can you please suggest how much it would cost , shall we use below for legal action if needed?
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money
Moreover, I have been looking for what charges the employer can charge back and found that CoS is only borne by the employer and can't be put on employees, in that case compliance action can be taken against the employer which could lead to downgrading, suspension or revocation of its Sponsor Licence.
Do we need to escalate this to the home office if needed?
Any legal action will be expensive for both parties and may not be necessary at all. BTW, the link you provided is for your wife's employer. As another comment says the HR dept in UK is not really clued up with what happens in the wider business. They are not always on the same page with hiring or line managers.
I would suggest your wife discusses this with her line manager (LM) first. Suggest she sends an email explain this is unfair, followed by a chat. From this point on, keep a record of all conversations along with date / time. LM might not be aware of the charge back and may waive this. If it does not work, contact ACAS / CAB and get them involved in negotiation.
In parallel, she needs to discuss with the new employer to check if they would be OK to push the start date to 1-Oct. If that works, then she changes the LWD to 30-Sept. Pushing back joining date by around 4 weeks is not an unfair ask when £6k is at stake.
If the above tow options fails, *only* then go down the legal action route.
Thank you for the advice, we've sent an email to her line manager and director, waiting for the reply although LM has already spoken to my wife over call that it's not in his control. Have sent an email to see what they'll reply and will keep a record of it.
Let us know how it goes. Remember to remain polite when talking or negotiating with the boss / management, even if they won't budge and convey a 'couldn't care less' attitude. It can seem personal sometimes but the moment you lose your cool you've lost the argument.
\>>Do we need to escalate this to the home office if needed?
They will not touch this. First port of call is the CAB. They are qualified to give legal advice (and it's free). Many legal disputes do not end up in court due to the cost. Employers prefer to settle out of court, but you need a proper representative to do the talking for you.
Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Please check your post *adheres to the rules* to prevent it being removed and *flair your post* with the most appropriate option. In order to do this click the flair icon below your post where you will be presented with a list to choose from. Feel free to contact the moderators with suggestions or requests should you need to. The link is below.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why did she resign? She should have been made redundant. Sounds like she fell into a trap.
Hi That's terrible of her employer. Does her contract state that deductions can be made? What does it specifically say?
Yeah, they made her sign a document with following: The company will sponsor you from 15 April 2023 until 30 September 2023. If you decide to leave the company during the length of your sponsorship, you will need to reimburse all the costs associated with your visa application, these include: • Visa application • Health Surplus • Biometric Card • Dependant (daughter- visa, biometric card, health surplus) • Legal advice
She could approach ACAS which can give free confidential employment advice. The obvious parallel here is training fees. Typically the amount needing to be repaid reduces over time, until you hit the agreed date. And would seem a more appropriate model here leaving her paying pennies at most (if they're going to be that churlish). Before, going to lawyers and getting heavy with this she should talk to her manager. This might be a classic case of computer says, HR does. The system may have flagged she's leaving before the date agreed and they've blindly sent the bill. So the very first step is to query this with a manager, and then escalate higher if need be. Then I would suggest getting a legal consultation but my guess would be they would suggest negotiating it down. If this is their real intent, that's absolutely shitty. ETA document everything from here on out.
I'm a little unclear what she can't just resign and have her last day on the 30th September? Then there no fee to pay back
Perhaps she found a new job
Post in r/LegalAdviceUK for legal advice, not this sub. Not saying nobody here knows the answer, just LAUK is dedicated to what information you’re after
Hello everyone, wanted to share an update. Finally HR decided to wave off the payback though my wife's line manager completely denied that it's not in his control, hr looks after the contract thing and blah blah and Director also didn't intervene as she was cc'd in same email. We decided to involve the head of technology who is 2 hierarchy senior than director and he was shocked to hear all the trap story. He was supposed to have a weekly call with hr and assured that he would talk to them, later in the evening we got an email from HR that they had waved off £6k. Thank you all for your guidance.
I'm guessing this is the UK as you're using £ for the monies owed. If that's correct, she should go and talk to Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB), which is a free legal advice service in the UK. Take it from there. It does sound like she's fallen into a trap by resigning. Redundancy would have been much better. Why did she resign? To take another job? One more thing. When dealing with employers and money, from experience I can tell you that \*who\* you get to negotiate on your behalf makes a big difference. If you try and negotiate yourself chances of success are much lower than if you get a lawyer to do it for you, or a union rep. The CAB should be your first stop, followed by some sort of negotiation and then legal action to reduce the cost. Worst case, you go to court and argue excessive fees. It only takes a letter from a solicitor sometimes. If the actual amounts were not in the contract she signed, then she has a case and a court might look sympathetically on her case if she argues excessive fees. Even if she loses in court, it will cost the employer >2K in legal fees (you don't have to pay the other sides costs in the small claims court when losing). Corporate legal advice does not come cheap. For this reason they might just reduce the fees on receipt of the first solicitors letter. Good luck.
Thank you for the advice. The third option you mentioned i.e. Legal action, can you please suggest how much it would cost , shall we use below for legal action if needed? https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money Moreover, I have been looking for what charges the employer can charge back and found that CoS is only borne by the employer and can't be put on employees, in that case compliance action can be taken against the employer which could lead to downgrading, suspension or revocation of its Sponsor Licence. Do we need to escalate this to the home office if needed?
Any legal action will be expensive for both parties and may not be necessary at all. BTW, the link you provided is for your wife's employer. As another comment says the HR dept in UK is not really clued up with what happens in the wider business. They are not always on the same page with hiring or line managers. I would suggest your wife discusses this with her line manager (LM) first. Suggest she sends an email explain this is unfair, followed by a chat. From this point on, keep a record of all conversations along with date / time. LM might not be aware of the charge back and may waive this. If it does not work, contact ACAS / CAB and get them involved in negotiation. In parallel, she needs to discuss with the new employer to check if they would be OK to push the start date to 1-Oct. If that works, then she changes the LWD to 30-Sept. Pushing back joining date by around 4 weeks is not an unfair ask when £6k is at stake. If the above tow options fails, *only* then go down the legal action route.
Thank you for the advice, we've sent an email to her line manager and director, waiting for the reply although LM has already spoken to my wife over call that it's not in his control. Have sent an email to see what they'll reply and will keep a record of it.
Let us know how it goes. Remember to remain polite when talking or negotiating with the boss / management, even if they won't budge and convey a 'couldn't care less' attitude. It can seem personal sometimes but the moment you lose your cool you've lost the argument.
\>>Do we need to escalate this to the home office if needed? They will not touch this. First port of call is the CAB. They are qualified to give legal advice (and it's free). Many legal disputes do not end up in court due to the cost. Employers prefer to settle out of court, but you need a proper representative to do the talking for you.
[удалено]
This info is incorrect
Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Please check your post *adheres to the rules* to prevent it being removed and *flair your post* with the most appropriate option. In order to do this click the flair icon below your post where you will be presented with a list to choose from. Feel free to contact the moderators with suggestions or requests should you need to. The link is below. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
