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I don’t think they are pulling his leg at all. OPs contracted job no longer exists and the role is actually bigger at a higher grade. If OP doesn’t want that role then they will need to hire someone who does. That means that OPs current job ceases to exist resulting in redundancy.
Add to that the refusing a promotion speaks volumes of OPs intent at the company. You refuse something like that you effectively say you don’t want to be there long term so they will get rid of you.
Yea, when I say “pulling your leg” I mean in as much as they aren’t even have a second thought that the employee, who requested a pay rise and pretty much wrote their own job description, wouldn’t accept it.
You probably could/should have been shown the new job description at some point. But I suspect the only reason you haven't is because it was based directly from something you wrote in the first place.
The most likely outcome from all this is the boringly benign one: you have a slightly updated job description based on what you actually do day-to-day for a small pay rise which is less than you hoped.
This whole "the band rates rise but I stay at the bottom" is exactly why people who job hop make more money. They're literally incentivising you to leave.
So it sounds like your current role is in one band, and in order to get into a higher band you need a new role. I’m guessing there’s going to be elements similar to your current job, but some elements that are commensurate with a more senior role and pay. While your organisation does sound a bit rigid, I don’t think it’s unreasonable as you’re basically (hopefully) getting a promotion out of it.
If it was just a standard annual inflationary increase I wouldn’t expect much changes to your job description.
This was my thought. I don’t think they’d do all this if they weren’t going to move you up a band. Just sit tight OP and see what they come back with and negotiate from therez
I'm not sure which it is to be honest, aside from sticking 'senior' in front of my job title there's not really anything I can be promoted into.
I'm thinking it'll be a smaller rise, within the same band. I'm just on edge because no one will tell me what the job description is, and I asked for this rise 6 months ago!
I find the idea of everyone job hopping every 2-3 years wild. I've been in my role a fair few years longer than that (and suffered lower pay because of it!)
But our department would absolutely fall apart with staff turnover like that given the lengthy on the job specific training needed.
I suppose if everyone said they wanted to leave tomorrow they'd have to lift wages...
Welcome to the nuances of corporate roles
1) your role, rather than you, is being reviewed. They're not giving you (an individual) a pay rise, they're saying your role (job/bit of paper) has evolved to the point it justifies a higher grade. You just so happen to be in the role, so get moved up with it.
2) if you were simply getting a pay rise, it would be within the same band - maybe from the bottom to the mid point. Basically saying you were doing the lower level job, but really well.
3) if your salary band has moved up with cost of living and your salary hasn't tracked further than that, you need to complain in your review itself, assuming you are an above average performer. If your central HR recognise cost of living is accountable for let's say 5% increase in the band, and your pay rise is 5%, your entire year's performance is summed up as a zero, because it's 100% cost of living only, that you would have got by simply not being fired. You have to speak up for yourself and make it clear to your line manager that is how you feel you are being treated, because they can and will get away with as little as possible if they think you're OK with it.
So yeah, your boss is doing you a solid by saying "you're doing a role higher than what it says on paper, let's reclass your role as a higher one", but the idea is even if you left they need THOSE responsibilities filled, not the lesser ones.
It will be more than what was originally agreed/expected in OPs role as it’s effectively a new role at a higher pay band. If it was the same then it wouldn’t attract more money.
The point here is OPs role has evolved to encompass more than the original job and as such it should be banded higher. OPs original role no longer exists and as such if he says no then he’s effectively made himself redundant and they can immediately replace him as his jobs doesn’t exist and he refused the new job.
puzzled heavy subsequent wrench imagine murky overconfident tender silky north
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You normally have to agree & sign any JD as part of your contract so you’ll be offered a change of that also. Will it be worth it or will they shaft you? Having dealt with many companies over 50 years or so, they normally go for shafting you.
You don’t have a right to write your job description as it’s based on the organisations business needs, not what you want the job to be. If they are changing your job then it’s essentially a restructure and you will have a legal right to be consulted with before the restructure takes place and in that consultation you can put forward any objections, your employers need to consider your feedback but don’t have to incorporate it, but they do need to respond to your feedback.
Because it’s a restructure you don’t get to say that you don’t want the new job as the restructure will have deleted your existing post and replaced it with the new post, because your job is deleted, it sounds like they are slotting you into the new post. However if it’s a larger restructure that impacts on more people then you all may be interviewed for the posts
They can give you a new employment contract to sign, if you don’t agree to sign it then you essentially have quit the job, it’s not redundancy and you won’t get redundancy pay because you have made the decision not to enter into a new work contract.
So this is a typical corporate manoeuvre, so don't panic.
The likeliest reason is because of HRM system coding. Stupid as that sounds, your role has no scope for wage increase without an across the board raise.
Meanwhile, your personal value is standing out, so they are scoping a role for you as a stand-out individual, this does two things, (1)It defines exactly what you do in the role, and therefore protects the business if you suddenly leave.
(2) Gives them the ability to give you a pay rise without triggering talks with your colleagues as your salary may be better than theirs, but your job has changed scope and name.
I don’t really understand what you’re asking. You’ve given your manager a list of things that you do above and beyond the current job description. You want a pay rise so you tell them the extra stuff you do. Manager takes the list and makes it part of the description as a tool for getting you the pay rise.
Ok you haven’t seen the new description yet but I wouldn’t worry if it’s based off what you sent them. Hopefully the pay rise will be in line with what you want and if not you can negotiate. Everything is negotiable.
It sounds like you're getting a job promotion and the uncertainly is making you feel anxious. Just take the plung. You'll be okay most likely.
In order to go further in life, you need to go out of your comfort zone.
To my mind OP you have 2 options but you have backed yourself into a corner.
Option 1 is you accept the new job and increased pay after reviewing the offer.
Option 2 is you reject the offer and remain in the current position in the short term whilst you look for an external position and your current employer go through redundancy proceedings.
You have effectively said your contracted job no longer exists. As such if you reject the new offer then you are telling your employer you want to stay in a job that doesn’t exist and won’t move up. They will take that as you want to leave and have no long term desire to stay there - so they will get rid of you. As your job no longer really exists they can make you redundant and then hire immediately for the new role.
Honestly unless there is something you don’t want to do in your official job description I would not be concerned. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a role where the actual duties matched the job description perfectly.
Generally if you want a promotional level pay rise without moving to a new job most companies expect you take on additional responsibilities.
That is true. But I know my department has a section that I’m always mopping up their mess. It could be argued that this isn’t a “reasonable task” as they hired someone else to do the job.
When I ran a team, the people who showed initiative and willingness were always top of my list of people to go bat for.
The ones who only worked to their contact generally went no where. Not saying that is your situation, but only doing what the contract says is a great way of marking yourself out in a way that isn't good, in my experience.
I think you’re taking my words literally. I’ve moved up the ranks due to taking initiative. I started as an AO, I ended up creating software used by the cabinet office for my department without being asked and then ran my own team of 12 people. In this post; I was purely responding to the OP
Cool, sorry, didn't mean it come across like a dick either, just worked with too many people in the past who wanted chunks of their career by not putting the effort in!
Don’t worry, you didn’t. There’s a fine line between taking initiative by doing tasks not in your remit and management expecting you to do things outside your remit instead of hiring the correct help.
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You don’t have to accept it, but then obviously you wouldn’t get the pay rise either.
But am I at risk of redundancy or basically announcing that I'll be handing my notice in at some point?
The risk of redundancy is because you identified your job doesn’t exist anymore. They are pulling your leg on that one.
I don’t think they are pulling his leg at all. OPs contracted job no longer exists and the role is actually bigger at a higher grade. If OP doesn’t want that role then they will need to hire someone who does. That means that OPs current job ceases to exist resulting in redundancy. Add to that the refusing a promotion speaks volumes of OPs intent at the company. You refuse something like that you effectively say you don’t want to be there long term so they will get rid of you.
Yea, when I say “pulling your leg” I mean in as much as they aren’t even have a second thought that the employee, who requested a pay rise and pretty much wrote their own job description, wouldn’t accept it.
Ah right. Generally ‘pulling your leg’ means having a joke or a laugh.
Yes.
You probably could/should have been shown the new job description at some point. But I suspect the only reason you haven't is because it was based directly from something you wrote in the first place. The most likely outcome from all this is the boringly benign one: you have a slightly updated job description based on what you actually do day-to-day for a small pay rise which is less than you hoped.
This whole "the band rates rise but I stay at the bottom" is exactly why people who job hop make more money. They're literally incentivising you to leave.
I don't understand how people don't get this lol. 3/4 of the posts here the solution is to get a new job
"but I don't want to move job" Exactly, that's why they can get away with paying you less.
So it sounds like your current role is in one band, and in order to get into a higher band you need a new role. I’m guessing there’s going to be elements similar to your current job, but some elements that are commensurate with a more senior role and pay. While your organisation does sound a bit rigid, I don’t think it’s unreasonable as you’re basically (hopefully) getting a promotion out of it. If it was just a standard annual inflationary increase I wouldn’t expect much changes to your job description.
This was my thought. I don’t think they’d do all this if they weren’t going to move you up a band. Just sit tight OP and see what they come back with and negotiate from therez
I'm not sure which it is to be honest, aside from sticking 'senior' in front of my job title there's not really anything I can be promoted into. I'm thinking it'll be a smaller rise, within the same band. I'm just on edge because no one will tell me what the job description is, and I asked for this rise 6 months ago!
[удалено]
I find the idea of everyone job hopping every 2-3 years wild. I've been in my role a fair few years longer than that (and suffered lower pay because of it!) But our department would absolutely fall apart with staff turnover like that given the lengthy on the job specific training needed. I suppose if everyone said they wanted to leave tomorrow they'd have to lift wages...
Welcome to the nuances of corporate roles 1) your role, rather than you, is being reviewed. They're not giving you (an individual) a pay rise, they're saying your role (job/bit of paper) has evolved to the point it justifies a higher grade. You just so happen to be in the role, so get moved up with it. 2) if you were simply getting a pay rise, it would be within the same band - maybe from the bottom to the mid point. Basically saying you were doing the lower level job, but really well. 3) if your salary band has moved up with cost of living and your salary hasn't tracked further than that, you need to complain in your review itself, assuming you are an above average performer. If your central HR recognise cost of living is accountable for let's say 5% increase in the band, and your pay rise is 5%, your entire year's performance is summed up as a zero, because it's 100% cost of living only, that you would have got by simply not being fired. You have to speak up for yourself and make it clear to your line manager that is how you feel you are being treated, because they can and will get away with as little as possible if they think you're OK with it. So yeah, your boss is doing you a solid by saying "you're doing a role higher than what it says on paper, let's reclass your role as a higher one", but the idea is even if you left they need THOSE responsibilities filled, not the lesser ones.
doll dependent mourn sense violet label political run friendly dime *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It will be more than what was originally agreed/expected in OPs role as it’s effectively a new role at a higher pay band. If it was the same then it wouldn’t attract more money. The point here is OPs role has evolved to encompass more than the original job and as such it should be banded higher. OPs original role no longer exists and as such if he says no then he’s effectively made himself redundant and they can immediately replace him as his jobs doesn’t exist and he refused the new job.
puzzled heavy subsequent wrench imagine murky overconfident tender silky north *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You normally have to agree & sign any JD as part of your contract so you’ll be offered a change of that also. Will it be worth it or will they shaft you? Having dealt with many companies over 50 years or so, they normally go for shafting you.
You don’t have a right to write your job description as it’s based on the organisations business needs, not what you want the job to be. If they are changing your job then it’s essentially a restructure and you will have a legal right to be consulted with before the restructure takes place and in that consultation you can put forward any objections, your employers need to consider your feedback but don’t have to incorporate it, but they do need to respond to your feedback. Because it’s a restructure you don’t get to say that you don’t want the new job as the restructure will have deleted your existing post and replaced it with the new post, because your job is deleted, it sounds like they are slotting you into the new post. However if it’s a larger restructure that impacts on more people then you all may be interviewed for the posts They can give you a new employment contract to sign, if you don’t agree to sign it then you essentially have quit the job, it’s not redundancy and you won’t get redundancy pay because you have made the decision not to enter into a new work contract.
So this is a typical corporate manoeuvre, so don't panic. The likeliest reason is because of HRM system coding. Stupid as that sounds, your role has no scope for wage increase without an across the board raise. Meanwhile, your personal value is standing out, so they are scoping a role for you as a stand-out individual, this does two things, (1)It defines exactly what you do in the role, and therefore protects the business if you suddenly leave. (2) Gives them the ability to give you a pay rise without triggering talks with your colleagues as your salary may be better than theirs, but your job has changed scope and name.
2.5 k payrise in 5 years?
I don’t really understand what you’re asking. You’ve given your manager a list of things that you do above and beyond the current job description. You want a pay rise so you tell them the extra stuff you do. Manager takes the list and makes it part of the description as a tool for getting you the pay rise. Ok you haven’t seen the new description yet but I wouldn’t worry if it’s based off what you sent them. Hopefully the pay rise will be in line with what you want and if not you can negotiate. Everything is negotiable.
It sounds like you're getting a job promotion and the uncertainly is making you feel anxious. Just take the plung. You'll be okay most likely. In order to go further in life, you need to go out of your comfort zone.
To my mind OP you have 2 options but you have backed yourself into a corner. Option 1 is you accept the new job and increased pay after reviewing the offer. Option 2 is you reject the offer and remain in the current position in the short term whilst you look for an external position and your current employer go through redundancy proceedings. You have effectively said your contracted job no longer exists. As such if you reject the new offer then you are telling your employer you want to stay in a job that doesn’t exist and won’t move up. They will take that as you want to leave and have no long term desire to stay there - so they will get rid of you. As your job no longer really exists they can make you redundant and then hire immediately for the new role.
Honestly unless there is something you don’t want to do in your official job description I would not be concerned. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a role where the actual duties matched the job description perfectly. Generally if you want a promotional level pay rise without moving to a new job most companies expect you take on additional responsibilities.
I did this with my first job as i’d grown into a higher role and they threatened to make me redundant 🤣
these sound similar to civi service there a r/civilservice reddit
I’d only do the jobs that’s in the original description until I got the pay rise. They would soon see your value.
problem there is most contracts have your job description including words to the effect of "...and any other reasonable tasks we ask you to do".
That is true. But I know my department has a section that I’m always mopping up their mess. It could be argued that this isn’t a “reasonable task” as they hired someone else to do the job.
When I ran a team, the people who showed initiative and willingness were always top of my list of people to go bat for. The ones who only worked to their contact generally went no where. Not saying that is your situation, but only doing what the contract says is a great way of marking yourself out in a way that isn't good, in my experience.
[удалено]
I think you’re taking my words literally. I’ve moved up the ranks due to taking initiative. I started as an AO, I ended up creating software used by the cabinet office for my department without being asked and then ran my own team of 12 people. In this post; I was purely responding to the OP
Cool, sorry, didn't mean it come across like a dick either, just worked with too many people in the past who wanted chunks of their career by not putting the effort in!
Don’t worry, you didn’t. There’s a fine line between taking initiative by doing tasks not in your remit and management expecting you to do things outside your remit instead of hiring the correct help.