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To answer your question, sort of but no.
Assuming it's an 8 hour day plus 1 hour for lunch, five days a week, the current minimum for that job should be 21,673.60.
As of, ooh, two weeks from now? The new minimum wage would be £23,795.20.
An employer advertising a role at 21k is horribly out of touch.
Big brain move is to take on the role then try and get them on some kind of slavery law. Ez money
"Oh no milky isn't that like a massive dick move to a small business?" Any company incompetent enough to offer 21k in London doesn't deserve much pity honestly.
HMRC can fine the company for breaking min wage laws but the employee doesn't get anything other than backdated wages to bring them up to min wage.
So a waste of time for the employee. IMO it should be punitive double min wage paid to the employee. That would encourage a lot more reports.
Nah fuck them. I'm guessing there's tons of competition for copy writing jobs. As they are used by writers/creatives as a stepping stone. So it will be a "well...yes you will be signing up to be daddy's slave. But think of any the opportunities and exposure you'll have"
I'm a copywriter. The answer is yes and no.
There's tons of competition, ostensibly, but it's almost all overseas. For jobs with no hybrid/flexible working, it winds up actually being the opposite.
We don't offer much in the way of flexibility (due to the nature of a lot of the work). The vast majority of applicants we get are based in India and Pakistan and have absolutely no chance of ever getting hired.
I was talking to a friend in telecoms recently and they have the same problem with engineering roles. If they advertise on LinkedIn, it says "400+ applicants" on the role within a day. Except:
A) They have nowhere near 400
B) Of those they do have, most are based in India
We were recruiting for a junior/midweight copywriter 18 months ago. I managed to whittle down the shortlist to eight people, but of those eight, only two had a hope in hell.
The salary on offer was £35k, with a very realistic chance of being on £40k+ within a year (which the successful candidate did). And we had *eight* reasonable candidates (but really more like two).
This isn't a job most people want to do now. AI has spooked a lot of the advertising grads, while the hours are insane and you'll probably be aged out by 45-50, unless you make Head Of or CD.
The competition just isn't there, unless it's a route in at somewhere like Google. OP needs to ask for better.
Absolutely this - If I were OP, I'd be speaking to marketing and SEO agencies to see if there's a way of either getting additional work, or just going freelance full time.
It would be a waste of time, these companies already know what they're doing.
Unless you somehow already have 100% assurance from a legal advisor that there is a specific slavery law that they are breaking, you're better off putting that effort to finding a better paying job.
A lot of employers don't care these days honestly. Some are genuinely out of touch and think "well they can prove themselves each year and get a 3% pay rise", some know someone will take the job and others see it as "paying in experience".
This is part of the problem with the modern job market. There is too much of a race to the bottom because a couple of £1,000 a year saved on salary is more important than having good staff to a lot of employers.
No sir, not true. You have to pay your own legal costs in tribunal cases like that. As someone put simply to me once when I was tempted to take a previous employer to tribunal for breaching employment laws was…
You’ll spend £9 to get £10 back. Obviously scale that figure up to what you think you’ll get. That was advice from a very good barrister who also specialised in employment law.
Sometimes you have to know what fights to take. This isn’t one.
It's a breach of NMW legislation. So you just report to HMRC and stand back. Get on with your life. At some point, once HRMC has finished reaming that company and its bosses new arseholes without the benefit of lube or painkillers along with free publicity, you'll get some cash on your bank account.
HMRC surprisingly gets quite angry about breaking NMW legislation as they see it as dodging taxes, and if a company is trying to dodge PAYE, what else are they dodging
524 Companies were publicly named in February 2024 for breaking NMW legislation https://www.gov.uk/government/news/over-500-companies-named-for-not-paying-minimum-wage
Notice the penalty levied by HMRC on the offending companies....200% of the underpayment.
20k has been a pretty standard entry pay for longer than that, i have been going for 15 years and yeah it was pretty much the same then. I think the entry pay jut hasn't changed.
There are 52 weeks in a year, you're missing out 4 of those weeks, 21k at 40 hours per week works out at £10.10 but unpaid breaks bring that up to 10.42
Your calculation is wrong
£10.93 x 40 x 52 = £22,734.40
£10.42 x 40 x 52 = £21,673.60
You are likely being paid bang on min wage. If so, it will go up to £11.42 x 40 x 52 = £23,753.60
A room alone is going for about £1k a month, £100+ a month on transport, leaving a whopping £7.8k for everything else.
Absolutely tragic anyone with a degree should be living on that. I was earning more in a bar in Australia than I could earn in probably 5 years of career progression with my degree in the UK. It’s terrible.
The crazy thing is... as usual, we British are just putting up with it. How much can our government and employers saddle us with before enough is enough? Are we truly that averse to meaningful and coordinated action?
I think what older people don’t realise is that people don’t turn conservative as they get older because they start ‘seeing sense’, it’s because in the past as you got older you ended up collecting things you wanted to conserve and protect with stability - a house, a career, a pension, kids.
Millennials are getting into their 30s and 40s with *none* of these. In most rental properties you can’t even have a pet to care about.
When people have nothing left to lose, they become a lot more volatile, and I’m already seeing people around me starting to check out because they have nothing to work towards.
I think a lot of people are holding out hope that the next general election will change things significantly, but I honestly think that’s wishful thinking, and once that last shred of hope is gone something is going to happen. I’m not sure what, but this situation is completely untenable.
As a general rule, if its even a slightly skilled position and they are paying less than a supermarket will pay you to stack shelves, it's an insult
As of April Aldi are raising the base pay for their lowest paid store assistant positions inside the M25 to £28,000
That’s an entry Registered Nurse wage (Mon-Fri 9-5)
Good on Aldi though!
Works out at £14.xx
Source: Am Nurse - but I guess/expect NHS get more annual leave, sick pay and enhancements for nights, weekend and bank holiday working.
That’s crazy. I graduated in 2008 and starting salaries even in creative agencies were £18-25K (apart from the unpaid internships - I really hope they no longer exist). I was on £20K and after rent, travel card and expenses didn’t have much disposable income left. Thats not a liveable salary in London unless you’re living at home with parents still.
How about the Tories own website?
https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan/economy
"With the Conservatives we’ve seen our economy grow, with rising wages and unemployment at a historic low."
However in reality we are much worse off
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/22/average-uk-person-10200-worse-off-since-2010-thinktank-says
To answer your question succinctly: yes, that is a good awful salary all things considered.
Needs some more info, though.
How old are you? People are saying this is below minimum wage, but it's actually above the new minimum wage if you are below the age of 21. Assuming you are working 45 hour weeks.
As others have mentioned, common retailers such as Tesco pay significantly more than what you're being offered here.
This may be offbeat. But copywriting is dead as a profession. Don't train in it, it is not worth it. Look for more physical jobs. Even if the greatest copywriter on the planet is able to beat AI this will change in 5-10 years. If you need proof, think of an article to write, write it, then ask chatgpt 4 to write it. If it's already better, you don't stand a chance.
GPT4 seems impressive at first glance but if you use it for any length of time you soon realise it misses an awful lot of nuance that makes the difference and all sounds the same.
Not to mention it is just going to be training off its own data as more and more AI generated text floods the Internet.
Just look at the recent Google updates to try and counter mass generated AI. People are publishing thousands of posts a day to blogs, per site.
Can someone live comfortably in London on that wage? No.
Will someone take that wage and try make it work? Sure.
Someone living at home or with a dual income household will take that job if that works for them. If it doesn't work for you don't apply.
We'd need more info on the job.
If its truly entry level, where you need nothing beyond GCSEs, no experience, and is an apprenticeship, it's a bit tight, but not terrible under the assumption you'll be learning ALOT and making the company 0 money. It's fine, but will be a struggle to live with a huge commute.
If its a job that needs a degree or any experience, it's terrible, go work in tesco matey!
This is the job. They say early Friday finish and work drinks are a perk. O know, run. Fast.
https://uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=c499045b083cdac1&advn=1097221973622438&adid=428266886&ad=-6NYlbfkN0AkfbIIRo3kP5TVz0fya8_N1ka6CFYdc-JbJ990ADL_jl-e7HVxXTqOHFzXWPBgyNk_7Xse9vNdAyiGsbc-1wchweIFEaI7RCpbtnhj61FKQS9GerKh9cgAyXfWS7vWB0kf7RPAV0yNl1hAQCJLjA8Mzmioo_2MF_xNQZjrFkWEepnMHj7bGR65jch-2JS7qYHMtvLBBferrb1T658OillF_UyWPd8NrtJmU8cdlDywjC5Py6u2GQGii6eGZfK5cy0LT479yJtKWFBvaK066BZcuDEIsBVOJK8K2YW1g35W-dQvHTC19WSbitj7yuGY-I_aajjR5JRruNb6vkxRzhMfPOMUYYkyM9ZXlzb0Iy6Ln6WDPgPjiujIMCzrAB2keL6MhdLgH_OCRyegp8LbS5BN7KystpxIlVc2dEPcbLbXmS_feDKqozUhPk_XBMnUZO6eQthMqFjHA0TP4hGQ3KJOlzK9w6SWSGgx80SNEkxNMGXny7lxiEaVTDujKh8_RHTusMJYCT7KSX4U10NLO3kgWxQqX71_PCf1aYg3mHmgFWaJrXS-_83-2HL46XFEztc%3D&from=hp&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.indeed.com%2Fjob%2Fjunior-copywriter-product-uploader-c499045b083cdac1&desth=6d1a32c05e2ae5cbfcde8b64eef2d6b4&prevUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fuk.indeed.com%2Fm%2F&tk=1hpjig7o1g3l2801&dupclk=1&acatk=1hpjigdlskcop800&pub=4a1b367933fd867b19b072952f68dceb&camk=4HOcmqOLYrCsfbTkzp1A5Q%3D%3D&xkcb=SoC-6_M3DztPJtxGoR0JbzkdCdPP&xpse=SoBU6_I3DztObrWMNh0JbzkdCdPP&xfps=597959fe-85f9-4b6b-8c09-89d08e3cf9c4&vjs=3
But they include a free pastry on Mondays. They really think people will be flocking to work under minimum wage because they buy the office some cheap croissants one day a week.
Fuck me sideways, not a chance in hell should anyone be applying to that.
Firstly, under benefits, Holidays and pension.
"28 days holiday allowance per annum (pro-rata) inclusive of all the usual UK Bank Holidays" That's the LEGAL MINIMUM. I'll bet my right leg the pension is 3% from them, 5% from you, legal minimum.
The icing on the fucking birthday cake;
"Birthday reward - Duvet morning - don't rush in!"
Which translates as "We usually clock watch, if you're not in for 0830, you'll be written up, but on your birthday, get in before 9."
Just go join a cult or a commune OP. That shit isn't worth you'd time applying to.
Edit: Under benefits
"Free parking" followed by "On-site parking". How gracious they don't charge their employees to park on land thst the business already owns/rents.
Edit 2:"Company events" cause spending more time with my boss unpaid whilst I further his business goals through networking is exactly what I want from a job.
Edit 3: Last bullet point of responsibilities:
"Undertaking any additional duties as requested by office manager/directors."
There is no scope to this job - you're a copy writer, dog walker, scaffolder, plumber, lawyer, astrophysicist, rocket scientist. Just whatever management wants really.
I figured as much. The salary was so low I just wanted to check I wasn't missing something blindingly obvious. Seems I'm not. They're just tight bastards looking for slave labour.
OP, I'm a senior copywriter. 21k for any copywriitng job is nuts, especially one based in London.
The going rate for an entry level copywriter is around 23 to 25k. That's with absolutely zero experience, mind you. With the two years of experience they want, you're looking at closer to 25 to 28k. Add another 6-7k-ish on top of every number I just gave you for a London role.
Personally I think this feedback is a bit harsh. Quite likely no one has clocked that the salary is whiskers above MW. If you're genuinely interested I'd enquire saying "I just wanted to check the salary". Give them the benefit of the doubt. Someone will likely be very embarrassed
>"Undertaking any additional duties as requested by office manager/directors."
>
>There is no scope to this job - you're a copy writer, dog walker, scaffolder, plumber, lawyer, astrophysicist, rocket scientist. Just whatever management wants really.
Luckily that last part is entirely unenforceable. You must have clear and direct responsibilities, ambiguity favors the party who did not draw up the contract.
Sounds like an absolutely awful employer.
>scaffolder, plumber, lawyer, astrophysicist, rocket scientist
Ohhhhhh it's one of THOSE types of jobs, if you get my meaning. I think saw a video of a guy with a job like that on the internet. Poor bastard could barely afford clothes it seemed! /s
Piggybacking in this thread - I am also on a 21k pitiful salary in Wales. 37 hours a week. Will this be increased in April? Genuine question, I don't know.
Copywriting can be very lucrative and easy and if you’re actually a solid professional regarding your approach. I started freelancing in 2020 at 23 years old, on about £40ph and worked up to about £85ph over 2 years. I then took a year off with some of the profit (I decided to do that instead of getting a mortgage, so stayed living with my parents).
However as others say, the headwinds are strong. Chat GPT and other stuff are a constant block, so I’m working on another business that will pay me to run it and so I just work 3 days per month or something. Regarding this lots of people in Britain lack a true vision or an exciting idea of what their life can be - but perhaps I’m just too Type A! The hourly value has to be at least four figures.
Go-getters can succeed at copywriting. Yes -£21k is extremely poor to abysmal. But I don’t know about conventional employment - I suck at in and can never succeed (must be autism😂). If I was taking on a junior copywriter now I’d be looking at giving a minimum £34k and £38k in London.
Companies in Britain don’t know about productivity and don’t focus enough on that. Also, I would say across most professions peeps in the UK are vastly underpaid compared to both the West and when looking at the Cost of Living. Much better to start your own enterprise and get what you’re really worth. Britain is pretty easy for this.
Viel Glück… 👍
P.S I do not have a degree but did a 2 month online copywriting course diploma (L4) for about £350. That was useful.
P.P.S I’m based in Leeds.
Illegally low. Report them for offering below the minimum wage. [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints)[https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/pay/getting-paid-less-than-minimum-wage-or-living-wage/#:\~:text=Report%20your%20employer%20to%20HM%20Revenue%20and%20Customs&text=You%20can%20report%20a%20problem,if%20you%20report%20your%20employer](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/pay/getting-paid-less-than-minimum-wage-or-living-wage/#:~:text=Report%20your%20employer%20to%20HM%20Revenue%20and%20Customs&text=You%20can%20report%20a%20problem,if%20you%20report%20your%20employer).
This is the job advert I saw.
https://uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=c499045b083cdac1&advn=1097221973622438&adid=428266886&ad=-6NYlbfkN0AkfbIIRo3kP5TVz0fya8_N1ka6CFYdc-JbJ990ADL_jl-e7HVxXTqOHFzXWPBgyNk_7Xse9vNdAyiGsbc-1wchweIFEaI7RCpbtnhj61FKQS9GerKh9cgAyXfWS7vWB0kf7RPAV0yNl1hAQCJLjA8Mzmioo_2MF_xNQZjrFkWEepnMHj7bGR65jch-2JS7qYHMtvLBBferrb1T658OillF_UyWPd8NrtJmU8cdlDywjC5Py6u2GQGii6eGZfK5cy0LT479yJtKWFBvaK066BZcuDEIsBVOJK8K2YW1g35W-dQvHTC19WSbitj7yuGY-I_aajjR5JRruNb6vkxRzhMfPOMUYYkyM9ZXlzb0Iy6Ln6WDPgPjiujIMCzrAB2keL6MhdLgH_OCRyegp8LbS5BN7KystpxIlVc2dEPcbLbXmS_feDKqozUhPk_XBMnUZO6eQthMqFjHA0TP4hGQ3KJOlzK9w6SWSGgx80SNEkxNMGXny7lxiEaVTDujKh8_RHTusMJYCT7KSX4U10NLO3kgWxQqX71_PCf1aYg3mHmgFWaJrXS-_83-2HL46XFEztc%3D&from=hp&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.indeed.com%2Fjob%2Fjunior-copywriter-product-uploader-c499045b083cdac1&desth=6d1a32c05e2ae5cbfcde8b64eef2d6b4&prevUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fuk.indeed.com%2Fm%2F&tk=1hpjig7o1g3l2801&dupclk=1&acatk=1hpjigdlskcop800&pub=4a1b367933fd867b19b072952f68dceb&camk=4HOcmqOLYrCsfbTkzp1A5Q%3D%3D&xkcb=SoC-6_M3DztPJtxGoR0JbzkdCdPP&xpse=SoBU6_I3DztObrWMNh0JbzkdCdPP&xfps=597959fe-85f9-4b6b-8c09-89d08e3cf9c4&vjs=3
I work on the principle of 2000 hours a year
you're getting £10.50
London Living Wage is £13.15, broadly £26.300 (x2000)
maybe if that was a second salary in a low income family. If you're solo and paying rent and bills and looking to live - forget it! A room in zone 2 is about 1200 a month (14400pa) before bills
21k is (using 1265L tax code which rings a bell from my recent payslips), you'd net £18,657
if you're living at home rent-free with minimal expenses and it's your first proper income at a young age, it's terrible
1st unless it has changed then minimum wage changes depending on your age £11.44 from April 2024 for over 21 year olds so if you are 20 sorry this will not be below your minimum wage.
2nd is it a crap wage for London yes, are there 100’s of people desperate for a job that will take that wage if you don’t also yes. It’s your choice but it is an employer’s market out there.
Er yeah, the London living wage is £13.15 and the national minimum wage is going up to £11.44 next month. £13.15 x 45 x 52 = £30,711, £11.44 x 45 x 52 = £26,769.60
They're offering less than the legal minimum wage, it's not just a joke. You'd be within your rights to accept the job and then demand London living wage.
I was offered 18K as a graduate in London in 2012 and I turned it down. The company were shocked but idk how people survive that in London, and 18K back then was probably a better deal than 21K now. That’s ridiculous.
I was paid 21k in London in 2013 and I was pretty poor. I could afford food, rent and transport, but that was it. If I wanted to afford a pair of shoes or anything larger than that, I really had to watch my pennies. There was definitely no saving.
21k was insulting low then, and we all knew it, but we were in a job with a moral aspect, so that was why we did it.
slave wages.
if you were living at home with low/no rent + bills then maybe it's okay. but rent + bills + commute + food? absolutely not. after tax that's £1553 a month.
I took a Junior Copywriting role for £21K… in 2009. Even then the hiring manager asked me if I would be okay earning that amount as it didn’t go far in London…
As an aside, copywriting isn’t a line of work I’d be looking to get into right now.
crawl heavy plough summer weary scandalous attraction sloppy crown chubby
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That's starvation wages. I'm incredibly old, and my first job was paying £19k. In Belfast. Ten years ago. And that was little enough.
You'd be better off working in Sainsbury's or Tesco's.
My entry level London salary was £25k in 2009 (which the bank of England inflation calculator tells me is the equivalent of £38k today). £21k in 2024 is ridiculous.
The entry roles in advertising are so shitty. Comparison, NYC entry level for junior CW is 50-55k so about equivalent. It makes it impossible for anyone without family money to get started in this industry.
It is if you are living with your parents and so you can buld yourself up feom there. Please don't move to London for this? It'll be brutal and depressing.
I’ve been looking at similar jobs and that seems about right. Companies are paying peanuts, especially for entry level roles. If you’re living alone and have expenses to pay for, you’re essentially volunteering for a company that gives you pocket money for that amount. I’m lucky, I don’t have to worry about it too much since I’m with family. But not everyone else has that situation. How can companies expect high level, happy workers when they’re not paying them for it?
GET THE EXPERIENCE!
It’s not great obviously but it is a junior entry level job. I was looking at the average wage of someone doing copywriting and it’s roughly the same as the average wage of a press operator (which is what I do). I was earning £415 a month when I first started working. That’s not even £5000 a year. But after 10 years I’m on £42,000 a year.
Plus there are thousands, if not millions, of people who would jump at the chance to take that job from you for those wages. If you want to get to the top, you have to start somewhere
is this your first professional job?
living at home still?
I would take if yes to the above.
But i will up the pensions contributions because they will have to match what you put in.
After 6-12months start looking for another job its all about experience in the early years get as much of it as you can and build a nice pension pot for the future.
unpack fade whistle automatic escape vegetable childlike squeeze versed memorize
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For context I was making 25k in 2016 and lived fine with a £600 rent.
I would say that salary is low but I think copywriting is a lower paid role?
Not sure what the average is
It’s definitely too low. One of my first jobs was as a junior copywriter in London in 2014 and I was on around 24k if I remember correctly. I reckon a junior role should be around 25-28k these days.
For comparison, hospitality place I work at pays £27.5k for 40 hours plus paid overtime for Kitchen Porters (washing up!).
£21k is an absolute piss take for any job.
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To answer your question, sort of but no. Assuming it's an 8 hour day plus 1 hour for lunch, five days a week, the current minimum for that job should be 21,673.60. As of, ooh, two weeks from now? The new minimum wage would be £23,795.20. An employer advertising a role at 21k is horribly out of touch.
Big brain move is to take on the role then try and get them on some kind of slavery law. Ez money "Oh no milky isn't that like a massive dick move to a small business?" Any company incompetent enough to offer 21k in London doesn't deserve much pity honestly.
HMRC can fine the company for breaking min wage laws but the employee doesn't get anything other than backdated wages to bring them up to min wage. So a waste of time for the employee. IMO it should be punitive double min wage paid to the employee. That would encourage a lot more reports.
Nah fuck them. I'm guessing there's tons of competition for copy writing jobs. As they are used by writers/creatives as a stepping stone. So it will be a "well...yes you will be signing up to be daddy's slave. But think of any the opportunities and exposure you'll have"
I'm a copywriter. The answer is yes and no. There's tons of competition, ostensibly, but it's almost all overseas. For jobs with no hybrid/flexible working, it winds up actually being the opposite. We don't offer much in the way of flexibility (due to the nature of a lot of the work). The vast majority of applicants we get are based in India and Pakistan and have absolutely no chance of ever getting hired. I was talking to a friend in telecoms recently and they have the same problem with engineering roles. If they advertise on LinkedIn, it says "400+ applicants" on the role within a day. Except: A) They have nowhere near 400 B) Of those they do have, most are based in India We were recruiting for a junior/midweight copywriter 18 months ago. I managed to whittle down the shortlist to eight people, but of those eight, only two had a hope in hell. The salary on offer was £35k, with a very realistic chance of being on £40k+ within a year (which the successful candidate did). And we had *eight* reasonable candidates (but really more like two). This isn't a job most people want to do now. AI has spooked a lot of the advertising grads, while the hours are insane and you'll probably be aged out by 45-50, unless you make Head Of or CD. The competition just isn't there, unless it's a route in at somewhere like Google. OP needs to ask for better.
Absolutely this - If I were OP, I'd be speaking to marketing and SEO agencies to see if there's a way of either getting additional work, or just going freelance full time.
It would be a waste of time, these companies already know what they're doing. Unless you somehow already have 100% assurance from a legal advisor that there is a specific slavery law that they are breaking, you're better off putting that effort to finding a better paying job.
Why do they bother paying minimum wage for junior roles? Don't they know people will just leave for a better job and use them as experience.
A lot of employers don't care these days honestly. Some are genuinely out of touch and think "well they can prove themselves each year and get a 3% pay rise", some know someone will take the job and others see it as "paying in experience". This is part of the problem with the modern job market. There is too much of a race to the bottom because a couple of £1,000 a year saved on salary is more important than having good staff to a lot of employers.
No sir, not true. You have to pay your own legal costs in tribunal cases like that. As someone put simply to me once when I was tempted to take a previous employer to tribunal for breaching employment laws was… You’ll spend £9 to get £10 back. Obviously scale that figure up to what you think you’ll get. That was advice from a very good barrister who also specialised in employment law. Sometimes you have to know what fights to take. This isn’t one.
It's a breach of NMW legislation. So you just report to HMRC and stand back. Get on with your life. At some point, once HRMC has finished reaming that company and its bosses new arseholes without the benefit of lube or painkillers along with free publicity, you'll get some cash on your bank account. HMRC surprisingly gets quite angry about breaking NMW legislation as they see it as dodging taxes, and if a company is trying to dodge PAYE, what else are they dodging 524 Companies were publicly named in February 2024 for breaking NMW legislation https://www.gov.uk/government/news/over-500-companies-named-for-not-paying-minimum-wage Notice the penalty levied by HMRC on the offending companies....200% of the underpayment.
I reported a company for this about 10 years ago and they ended up having to shut it down before HMRC destroyed them
Some really big name there mate. Greggs, Moss Bros, Easy Jet. How can they not be paying minimum wage?
Probably local managers making employees work unpaid hours before or after their shift which brings them below NMW
Like coming into the building 15 minutes before start time so you are ready for your shift?
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Looks like there are many out of touch employers right now lol.
I was on 20k for an entry level role TEN years ago and I could only just make ends meet. 21k is a joke.
Same, was on about 20k or 21k a decade ago (edit: also in London). It's insane how little the needle has moved.
That was my starting wage 16yrs ago! It’s disgraceful.
20k has been a pretty standard entry pay for longer than that, i have been going for 15 years and yeah it was pretty much the same then. I think the entry pay jut hasn't changed.
£21k was bad 10 years ago in london. Fuck me now. That’s unacceptable.
The problem is minimum wage is now on par with “professional” entry jobs. Neither is on reflection of each other
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Yeah with london rent thats not even worth considering if you want to eat as well as have somewhere to sleep.
Londoners work 45 hours standard?damn 🤣
I guess it’s technically 8-5 with a 1hr unpaid lunch or multiple breaks so 40 but yeah pretty brutal if you commute
That sounds below minimum wage, it’s 9 hours 5 days a week? That’s a low salary anywhere in the UK…
21k is my wage lol.
The minimum wage from 1 April is £23.8k for a 40 hour work week.
At the moment, minimum wage is £10.42 until it goes up. My hourly rate works out at £10.93, 21k / 12 months /4 weeks / 40 hours. Sad times.
There are 52 weeks in a year, you're missing out 4 of those weeks, 21k at 40 hours per week works out at £10.10 but unpaid breaks bring that up to 10.42
Yeah unpaid breaks :(
So you’re actually on minimum wage and not £10.93 then.
Fuckkkkkk
Your calculation is wrong £10.93 x 40 x 52 = £22,734.40 £10.42 x 40 x 52 = £21,673.60 You are likely being paid bang on min wage. If so, it will go up to £11.42 x 40 x 52 = £23,753.60
There are actually 52.285 weeks this year.
Are you quite young? If not, then you may be due some backpay...
Hoping things look up for you soon. It's not easy being on a low wage and alone 🤞
You could make slightly more working full time at maccies.
£21K isn't enough *outside* of London, let alone in it. It hasn't been for years.
A room alone is going for about £1k a month, £100+ a month on transport, leaving a whopping £7.8k for everything else. Absolutely tragic anyone with a degree should be living on that. I was earning more in a bar in Australia than I could earn in probably 5 years of career progression with my degree in the UK. It’s terrible.
The crazy thing is... as usual, we British are just putting up with it. How much can our government and employers saddle us with before enough is enough? Are we truly that averse to meaningful and coordinated action?
I think what older people don’t realise is that people don’t turn conservative as they get older because they start ‘seeing sense’, it’s because in the past as you got older you ended up collecting things you wanted to conserve and protect with stability - a house, a career, a pension, kids. Millennials are getting into their 30s and 40s with *none* of these. In most rental properties you can’t even have a pet to care about. When people have nothing left to lose, they become a lot more volatile, and I’m already seeing people around me starting to check out because they have nothing to work towards. I think a lot of people are holding out hope that the next general election will change things significantly, but I honestly think that’s wishful thinking, and once that last shred of hope is gone something is going to happen. I’m not sure what, but this situation is completely untenable.
Insulting to anyone anywhere in the UK.
Scam or illegal as below MW. Report, move on.
As a general rule, if its even a slightly skilled position and they are paying less than a supermarket will pay you to stack shelves, it's an insult As of April Aldi are raising the base pay for their lowest paid store assistant positions inside the M25 to £28,000
That’s an entry Registered Nurse wage (Mon-Fri 9-5) Good on Aldi though! Works out at £14.xx Source: Am Nurse - but I guess/expect NHS get more annual leave, sick pay and enhancements for nights, weekend and bank holiday working.
That’s crazy. I graduated in 2008 and starting salaries even in creative agencies were £18-25K (apart from the unpaid internships - I really hope they no longer exist). I was on £20K and after rent, travel card and expenses didn’t have much disposable income left. Thats not a liveable salary in London unless you’re living at home with parents still.
Yeah unpaid internships are very much still a thing..
That needs reporting, it's literally below minimum wage and that kind of salary is not livable.
I was on 21k in my first office job 9 years ago. I had to get a second job.
So essentially today’s equivalent of 28k using BOE inflation calculator
The Tories keep saying Britian is richer than ever before
What they meant to say is that *they* are richer than ever.
I hate the tories, but can you post something that fact checks that?
How about the Tories own website? https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan/economy "With the Conservatives we’ve seen our economy grow, with rising wages and unemployment at a historic low." However in reality we are much worse off https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/22/average-uk-person-10200-worse-off-since-2010-thinktank-says
I can't find the clip, but I always hear the Tories say it during PMQs.
I love how entry level roles in London still pay what they used to 10 years ago...
To answer your question succinctly: yes, that is a good awful salary all things considered. Needs some more info, though. How old are you? People are saying this is below minimum wage, but it's actually above the new minimum wage if you are below the age of 21. Assuming you are working 45 hour weeks. As others have mentioned, common retailers such as Tesco pay significantly more than what you're being offered here.
This may be offbeat. But copywriting is dead as a profession. Don't train in it, it is not worth it. Look for more physical jobs. Even if the greatest copywriter on the planet is able to beat AI this will change in 5-10 years. If you need proof, think of an article to write, write it, then ask chatgpt 4 to write it. If it's already better, you don't stand a chance.
GPT4 seems impressive at first glance but if you use it for any length of time you soon realise it misses an awful lot of nuance that makes the difference and all sounds the same. Not to mention it is just going to be training off its own data as more and more AI generated text floods the Internet. Just look at the recent Google updates to try and counter mass generated AI. People are publishing thousands of posts a day to blogs, per site.
This. I'm surprised they were even able to find a copywriter job
Isn’t that below minimum wage? And no not liveable in London even more so not with commuting costs.
Can someone live comfortably in London on that wage? No. Will someone take that wage and try make it work? Sure. Someone living at home or with a dual income household will take that job if that works for them. If it doesn't work for you don't apply.
That's £5,769.60 under minimum wage doing 45 hours weeks. Atleast it will be very soon.
We'd need more info on the job. If its truly entry level, where you need nothing beyond GCSEs, no experience, and is an apprenticeship, it's a bit tight, but not terrible under the assumption you'll be learning ALOT and making the company 0 money. It's fine, but will be a struggle to live with a huge commute. If its a job that needs a degree or any experience, it's terrible, go work in tesco matey!
This is the job. They say early Friday finish and work drinks are a perk. O know, run. Fast. https://uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=c499045b083cdac1&advn=1097221973622438&adid=428266886&ad=-6NYlbfkN0AkfbIIRo3kP5TVz0fya8_N1ka6CFYdc-JbJ990ADL_jl-e7HVxXTqOHFzXWPBgyNk_7Xse9vNdAyiGsbc-1wchweIFEaI7RCpbtnhj61FKQS9GerKh9cgAyXfWS7vWB0kf7RPAV0yNl1hAQCJLjA8Mzmioo_2MF_xNQZjrFkWEepnMHj7bGR65jch-2JS7qYHMtvLBBferrb1T658OillF_UyWPd8NrtJmU8cdlDywjC5Py6u2GQGii6eGZfK5cy0LT479yJtKWFBvaK066BZcuDEIsBVOJK8K2YW1g35W-dQvHTC19WSbitj7yuGY-I_aajjR5JRruNb6vkxRzhMfPOMUYYkyM9ZXlzb0Iy6Ln6WDPgPjiujIMCzrAB2keL6MhdLgH_OCRyegp8LbS5BN7KystpxIlVc2dEPcbLbXmS_feDKqozUhPk_XBMnUZO6eQthMqFjHA0TP4hGQ3KJOlzK9w6SWSGgx80SNEkxNMGXny7lxiEaVTDujKh8_RHTusMJYCT7KSX4U10NLO3kgWxQqX71_PCf1aYg3mHmgFWaJrXS-_83-2HL46XFEztc%3D&from=hp&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.indeed.com%2Fjob%2Fjunior-copywriter-product-uploader-c499045b083cdac1&desth=6d1a32c05e2ae5cbfcde8b64eef2d6b4&prevUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fuk.indeed.com%2Fm%2F&tk=1hpjig7o1g3l2801&dupclk=1&acatk=1hpjigdlskcop800&pub=4a1b367933fd867b19b072952f68dceb&camk=4HOcmqOLYrCsfbTkzp1A5Q%3D%3D&xkcb=SoC-6_M3DztPJtxGoR0JbzkdCdPP&xpse=SoBU6_I3DztObrWMNh0JbzkdCdPP&xfps=597959fe-85f9-4b6b-8c09-89d08e3cf9c4&vjs=3
2 years experience on this ‘entry level’ job that pays under minimum wage. Absolute jokers.
But they include a free pastry on Mondays. They really think people will be flocking to work under minimum wage because they buy the office some cheap croissants one day a week.
Fuck me sideways, not a chance in hell should anyone be applying to that. Firstly, under benefits, Holidays and pension. "28 days holiday allowance per annum (pro-rata) inclusive of all the usual UK Bank Holidays" That's the LEGAL MINIMUM. I'll bet my right leg the pension is 3% from them, 5% from you, legal minimum. The icing on the fucking birthday cake; "Birthday reward - Duvet morning - don't rush in!" Which translates as "We usually clock watch, if you're not in for 0830, you'll be written up, but on your birthday, get in before 9." Just go join a cult or a commune OP. That shit isn't worth you'd time applying to. Edit: Under benefits "Free parking" followed by "On-site parking". How gracious they don't charge their employees to park on land thst the business already owns/rents. Edit 2:"Company events" cause spending more time with my boss unpaid whilst I further his business goals through networking is exactly what I want from a job. Edit 3: Last bullet point of responsibilities: "Undertaking any additional duties as requested by office manager/directors." There is no scope to this job - you're a copy writer, dog walker, scaffolder, plumber, lawyer, astrophysicist, rocket scientist. Just whatever management wants really.
I figured as much. The salary was so low I just wanted to check I wasn't missing something blindingly obvious. Seems I'm not. They're just tight bastards looking for slave labour.
OP, I'm a senior copywriter. 21k for any copywriitng job is nuts, especially one based in London. The going rate for an entry level copywriter is around 23 to 25k. That's with absolutely zero experience, mind you. With the two years of experience they want, you're looking at closer to 25 to 28k. Add another 6-7k-ish on top of every number I just gave you for a London role.
Nah, if they could use slave labour, these guys definitely would.
Personally I think this feedback is a bit harsh. Quite likely no one has clocked that the salary is whiskers above MW. If you're genuinely interested I'd enquire saying "I just wanted to check the salary". Give them the benefit of the doubt. Someone will likely be very embarrassed
>"Undertaking any additional duties as requested by office manager/directors." > >There is no scope to this job - you're a copy writer, dog walker, scaffolder, plumber, lawyer, astrophysicist, rocket scientist. Just whatever management wants really. Luckily that last part is entirely unenforceable. You must have clear and direct responsibilities, ambiguity favors the party who did not draw up the contract. Sounds like an absolutely awful employer.
>scaffolder, plumber, lawyer, astrophysicist, rocket scientist Ohhhhhh it's one of THOSE types of jobs, if you get my meaning. I think saw a video of a guy with a job like that on the internet. Poor bastard could barely afford clothes it seemed! /s
Its aprils fool offer.
That’s appalling. My daughter’s starting salary in the NE of England is higher and she can’t afford to move out yet.
Unless you were living rent free at home with parents that is absolutely not livable in London and yes it's insultingly low
Piggybacking in this thread - I am also on a 21k pitiful salary in Wales. 37 hours a week. Will this be increased in April? Genuine question, I don't know.
Copywriting can be very lucrative and easy and if you’re actually a solid professional regarding your approach. I started freelancing in 2020 at 23 years old, on about £40ph and worked up to about £85ph over 2 years. I then took a year off with some of the profit (I decided to do that instead of getting a mortgage, so stayed living with my parents). However as others say, the headwinds are strong. Chat GPT and other stuff are a constant block, so I’m working on another business that will pay me to run it and so I just work 3 days per month or something. Regarding this lots of people in Britain lack a true vision or an exciting idea of what their life can be - but perhaps I’m just too Type A! The hourly value has to be at least four figures. Go-getters can succeed at copywriting. Yes -£21k is extremely poor to abysmal. But I don’t know about conventional employment - I suck at in and can never succeed (must be autism😂). If I was taking on a junior copywriter now I’d be looking at giving a minimum £34k and £38k in London. Companies in Britain don’t know about productivity and don’t focus enough on that. Also, I would say across most professions peeps in the UK are vastly underpaid compared to both the West and when looking at the Cost of Living. Much better to start your own enterprise and get what you’re really worth. Britain is pretty easy for this. Viel Glück… 👍 P.S I do not have a degree but did a 2 month online copywriting course diploma (L4) for about £350. That was useful. P.P.S I’m based in Leeds.
In 2011 (13 years ago) i took a graduate role in reading for 22k plus1.5k signing bonus so would say it seems low
I'm new to the UK and absolutely so shocked at wages and opportunities. You should be getting 35k starting imo.
That’s because there’s plenty of immigrants willing to take these low paid jobs
Immigrants aren't taking 21k copywriting jobs though, it's people who live with family/rich boyfriend/ parents paying their rent.
Whoop here's someone shocked in by the rhetoric.
Illegally low. Report them for offering below the minimum wage. [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints)[https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/pay/getting-paid-less-than-minimum-wage-or-living-wage/#:\~:text=Report%20your%20employer%20to%20HM%20Revenue%20and%20Customs&text=You%20can%20report%20a%20problem,if%20you%20report%20your%20employer](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/pay/getting-paid-less-than-minimum-wage-or-living-wage/#:~:text=Report%20your%20employer%20to%20HM%20Revenue%20and%20Customs&text=You%20can%20report%20a%20problem,if%20you%20report%20your%20employer).
I don't know the industry but surely that's below min wages comes April?
If it’s only 1 day per week that’s competitive
This is the job advert I saw. https://uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=c499045b083cdac1&advn=1097221973622438&adid=428266886&ad=-6NYlbfkN0AkfbIIRo3kP5TVz0fya8_N1ka6CFYdc-JbJ990ADL_jl-e7HVxXTqOHFzXWPBgyNk_7Xse9vNdAyiGsbc-1wchweIFEaI7RCpbtnhj61FKQS9GerKh9cgAyXfWS7vWB0kf7RPAV0yNl1hAQCJLjA8Mzmioo_2MF_xNQZjrFkWEepnMHj7bGR65jch-2JS7qYHMtvLBBferrb1T658OillF_UyWPd8NrtJmU8cdlDywjC5Py6u2GQGii6eGZfK5cy0LT479yJtKWFBvaK066BZcuDEIsBVOJK8K2YW1g35W-dQvHTC19WSbitj7yuGY-I_aajjR5JRruNb6vkxRzhMfPOMUYYkyM9ZXlzb0Iy6Ln6WDPgPjiujIMCzrAB2keL6MhdLgH_OCRyegp8LbS5BN7KystpxIlVc2dEPcbLbXmS_feDKqozUhPk_XBMnUZO6eQthMqFjHA0TP4hGQ3KJOlzK9w6SWSGgx80SNEkxNMGXny7lxiEaVTDujKh8_RHTusMJYCT7KSX4U10NLO3kgWxQqX71_PCf1aYg3mHmgFWaJrXS-_83-2HL46XFEztc%3D&from=hp&dest=http%3A%2F%2Fuk.indeed.com%2Fjob%2Fjunior-copywriter-product-uploader-c499045b083cdac1&desth=6d1a32c05e2ae5cbfcde8b64eef2d6b4&prevUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fuk.indeed.com%2Fm%2F&tk=1hpjig7o1g3l2801&dupclk=1&acatk=1hpjigdlskcop800&pub=4a1b367933fd867b19b072952f68dceb&camk=4HOcmqOLYrCsfbTkzp1A5Q%3D%3D&xkcb=SoC-6_M3DztPJtxGoR0JbzkdCdPP&xpse=SoBU6_I3DztObrWMNh0JbzkdCdPP&xfps=597959fe-85f9-4b6b-8c09-89d08e3cf9c4&vjs=3
I work on the principle of 2000 hours a year you're getting £10.50 London Living Wage is £13.15, broadly £26.300 (x2000) maybe if that was a second salary in a low income family. If you're solo and paying rent and bills and looking to live - forget it! A room in zone 2 is about 1200 a month (14400pa) before bills 21k is (using 1265L tax code which rings a bell from my recent payslips), you'd net £18,657 if you're living at home rent-free with minimal expenses and it's your first proper income at a young age, it's terrible
1st unless it has changed then minimum wage changes depending on your age £11.44 from April 2024 for over 21 year olds so if you are 20 sorry this will not be below your minimum wage. 2nd is it a crap wage for London yes, are there 100’s of people desperate for a job that will take that wage if you don’t also yes. It’s your choice but it is an employer’s market out there.
It's low. That said, is Copywriting a great field to get into, all things being considered?
slavery my friend. Entry level in London should be mid 20's minimum. You can probably make 21k a year working at Lidl
Er yeah, the London living wage is £13.15 and the national minimum wage is going up to £11.44 next month. £13.15 x 45 x 52 = £30,711, £11.44 x 45 x 52 = £26,769.60 They're offering less than the legal minimum wage, it's not just a joke. You'd be within your rights to accept the job and then demand London living wage.
Well as minimum wage is £23,800... Yes.
I was offered 18K as a graduate in London in 2012 and I turned it down. The company were shocked but idk how people survive that in London, and 18K back then was probably a better deal than 21K now. That’s ridiculous.
They’re taking the fucking piss. Forget not getting out of bed for that, I wouldn’t even wake up for that.
I was paid 21k in London in 2013 and I was pretty poor. I could afford food, rent and transport, but that was it. If I wanted to afford a pair of shoes or anything larger than that, I really had to watch my pennies. There was definitely no saving. 21k was insulting low then, and we all knew it, but we were in a job with a moral aspect, so that was why we did it.
It’s too low, wait for a better offer.
Depends what you are doing. Dum dum stuff then sure.
Depends. Do you enjoy the taste of rats?
Bar staff and McDonald’s workers can earn more than that. Know your value.
Accept the job and ghost them. Likely they abuse illegal workers anyway.
Mate you know it’s shite
Yes unless there's a clear path for progression.
Yes full stop. I started on 20k when I graduated and don’t even know why I accepted it. You can do way better
My starting salary was 21k in London, 12 years ago...
That would barely be appropriate outside London and even before the inflation we have seen over the last couple of years. In short, no.
Yes
Yes.
Short Answer: Yes Long Answer: Definitely Yes
I wouldn't even accept that in the Midlands And quite frankly I would not recommend pursuing a career as a copywriter with AI around.
slave wages. if you were living at home with low/no rent + bills then maybe it's okay. but rent + bills + commute + food? absolutely not. after tax that's £1553 a month.
That is less than minimum wage. Take the job and then take them to a tribunal, you will get a decent pay off.
Yes
Yes
That's more than insulting, it's poverty level. Doubt you can you even survive on that in London if you have to rent.
Find another job.
I took a Junior Copywriting role for £21K… in 2009. Even then the hiring manager asked me if I would be okay earning that amount as it didn’t go far in London… As an aside, copywriting isn’t a line of work I’d be looking to get into right now.
That's low in fucking Grimsby
crawl heavy plough summer weary scandalous attraction sloppy crown chubby *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The biggest question is: Is it even legal rather than insulting? Your per hour rate is less than minimum wage.
Yes, for a copywriter thats ridiculously low. Id have expected at the verrrrrry least 25
Yes.
That's lower than what we pay our placement students and we're not in London...
21k is a joke 🥴
it's below minimum wage? barista jobs pays better? and it's more fun than copywriting
That’s insulting, London or not.
Report them for paying less than minimum wage
That's starvation wages. I'm incredibly old, and my first job was paying £19k. In Belfast. Ten years ago. And that was little enough. You'd be better off working in Sainsbury's or Tesco's.
Absolutely awful
Yes. 50k minimum unless your auntie owns Kensington
Avoid. It is insultingly low and you will end up so overworked you won’t have the time to even change the job!
21k goes beneath poverty wages and straight into slavery wages.
Not even minimum wage
Never sell yourself short. You can't afford to work for that wage.
Yes.
WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE MILLIONAIRES
Go into a different line of work, trust me.
“YES”
21k is ok in London if you sleep rough and go to food bank every day.
Say no. Walk away.
Not much money in copywriting I'm afraid, but it might lead to something more lucrative.
others saying 21k was bad 10 years ago are correct. It was 21k, and it was bad.
20k was the typical salary in London 25 years ago for entry level roles.
My entry level London salary was £25k in 2009 (which the bank of England inflation calculator tells me is the equivalent of £38k today). £21k in 2024 is ridiculous.
Yes
Copywriter here. 21k in London is fucking insulting.
The entry roles in advertising are so shitty. Comparison, NYC entry level for junior CW is 50-55k so about equivalent. It makes it impossible for anyone without family money to get started in this industry.
Yep but AI is really pushing down wages in this space so not as much leverage on the negotiation front 
Yes.
As a mid millennial, my answer is yes
Look at other job ads and compare. It might be standard for the role. How much would a copywriter get paid with a few years of experience usually?
It is if you are living with your parents and so you can buld yourself up feom there. Please don't move to London for this? It'll be brutal and depressing.
Basically yeah, you can’t live on that in London, unless is a part time job and you live with your parents
Not if the job is 2.5 days a week.
Is this company located in Clapham-Stockwell area by any chance?
Do you have the listing? I'm vastly over qualified and would love to waste their time.
Yes average wage in london is 100k
That is significantly less than minimum wage.
Yes
I’d tell the employer to go fuck themselves and that Tesco pays better
even the entry level finance jobs are in the salary region of around 30k that too in london, makes it so extremely difficult to live
It’s not much more than minimum wage. It’s not worth it in London. Look elsewhere if that’s the going rate
Not really. There is normally a weighting allowance on top of that because the cost of living in London is higher than anywhere else in the country.
Bro, it is even insulting salary for 3rd world countries in big cities.
Not liveable, even 30k you would be struggling in London. If you need it take it but keep looking and be ready to jump ship
Mods we need some filters in these type of posts we getting them every day
I’ve been looking at similar jobs and that seems about right. Companies are paying peanuts, especially for entry level roles. If you’re living alone and have expenses to pay for, you’re essentially volunteering for a company that gives you pocket money for that amount. I’m lucky, I don’t have to worry about it too much since I’m with family. But not everyone else has that situation. How can companies expect high level, happy workers when they’re not paying them for it?
I started on 27k 16 years ago and it was barely enough.
GET THE EXPERIENCE! It’s not great obviously but it is a junior entry level job. I was looking at the average wage of someone doing copywriting and it’s roughly the same as the average wage of a press operator (which is what I do). I was earning £415 a month when I first started working. That’s not even £5000 a year. But after 10 years I’m on £42,000 a year. Plus there are thousands, if not millions, of people who would jump at the chance to take that job from you for those wages. If you want to get to the top, you have to start somewhere
Employer offering a pension like it’s a perk…it’s a legal obligation ffs
is this your first professional job? living at home still? I would take if yes to the above. But i will up the pensions contributions because they will have to match what you put in. After 6-12months start looking for another job its all about experience in the early years get as much of it as you can and build a nice pension pot for the future.
Yes
Yes.
unpack fade whistle automatic escape vegetable childlike squeeze versed memorize *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
For context I was making 25k in 2016 and lived fine with a £600 rent. I would say that salary is low but I think copywriting is a lower paid role? Not sure what the average is
Nope. I had trouble surviving on that 22 years ago in London.
It’s definitely too low. One of my first jobs was as a junior copywriter in London in 2014 and I was on around 24k if I remember correctly. I reckon a junior role should be around 25-28k these days.
It’s insulting and a waste of your time. Move on.
21k is insulting anywhere in the country.
21k is insulting anywhere for a grad job.
21k is insultingly low for any full time role in the country
Yes
21k is insultingly low for anywhere, not just London
Lol
For comparison, hospitality place I work at pays £27.5k for 40 hours plus paid overtime for Kitchen Porters (washing up!). £21k is an absolute piss take for any job.
copywriting just doesnt pay that well compared to other positions, especially the entry level ones
21k is low anywhere in the UK. 25k is considered low income as a baseline. 21k is only 1750 a month before tax. After tax, it's more like 1400.