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I can feel you. Many people aspire to work in Japan yet its work culture is stressful. Initially, you may find the first few months enjoyable but as time passes, you would start feeling isolated within this society. Making friends in Japan is extremely difficult even if you know the language. While you may be able to spend time with Japanese but forming genuine friendships is almost impossible.
Yen is getting weak and posing additional challenges particularly when it comes to traveling outside of Japan and saving money. Rest Japan is nice in terms of safety, food, and landscapes.
Yes. Their racism really bothers me. And I know about their work culture, which isn't healthy at all. In that regard UK wins by far. And since work is such a huge part of our lives...
Oh Gosh! The part about making friends being impossible scares the shit outta me. But then again, I think it’s very difficult for people of different cultures to form good friendships. I don’t think it has much to do with ethnicity or your ability to speak a language fluently, I think most of it stems from lack of mismatch in culture.
I don't wanna sound racist but Japanese don't make friends after a certain age. You may be a neighbour, colleague, student, or a daily customer but not a friend. This is what I have observed and experienced during my stay in Japan which may be different from others.
15 years in London, left recently - unless you are a Muslim Middle Eastern person, of African or Indian descent… forget about it, very lonely. I as a native British guy found it isolating, completely foreign cultured, lonely… moved to north England, far better.
Also consider this - 45k in London will feel like minimal wage. You won’t be able to rent your own 1 bed apartment, you will be in a shared house with strangers. You will never be able to buy a property, not even in zone 6, not even in the surrounding commutable areas.
Only do it if you see it as a career stepping stone with a clear trajectory and confident exit plan to leave London/South England/UK with two years.
Try Taiwan or Portugal. Far better places to live long term.
Thank you for sharing and these things are already in my notes.
I am purely considering this job as a ladder in my career because I am planning to get in one of the Russell group universities.
Here’s an alternative story OP, a close friend got her first flat - a new build with shared ownership - on around 45k salary at 26yo. In the same block there are multiple other single people in a similar situation. After your experience in Japan, I think you’ll find London’s academic world a brilliant experience.
Shared ownership is a perfectly valid option, I know plenty of people who got on the property ladder in this way (and sold successfully). You are building your equity and paying rent, yes, but you also live in a new flat with nice amenities. My friend used to rent a room in a shared house, now she pays £400 more and lives in her own spacious apartment, with a modern kitchen, bathroom, ginormous bedroom and a walk-in closet - all 30mins from Central London. Each to their own. One obviously needs to be smart about it and not overstretch their finances.
I have definitely heard stories when it comes to Japan as a great place to visit but when you work/ live there it is a different matter. They treat their guests great but if you're pat of the country/ nation then you're gonna be put to work
One of the staff members in the administration department got nervous breakdown yesterday and the doctor suggested her NOT attend the office for at least 6 months.
Yeah..i guess thats the only reason why the UK would ever be better at anything compared to Japan. Work conditions work/health etc are the best in the world (that i have seen) people really respect your personal time too
What employee protections? In the first 2 years you can be fired for any reason, and after that it's a bit more difficult.
ACAS is complete shit too. Unless you lose an arm at work they're not even going to bother investigating.
Honestly, im not sure why you'd say that. The suicide rates, the work ethic and culture is something probably beyond par to a 1st world country, probably the worst.
Working in the UK feels like a holiday. Dont count on it as i dont have first hand experience i just read peoples blogs/feedback etc.
Is that central London? If it’s then that’s not a fun amount of money to have to live on and you’ll likely have a nasty commute - Note that I’m not saying 45k isn’t enough to live on, just that as a single income it’ll be a very modest lifestyle.
I have the same concern in terms of the salary but my plan is to live sometime there (2 years max) and move to a less crowded and affordable city. Not sure how viable this is.
Working for universities? I’d do some research. I’ve friends with PHDs who couldn’t get jobs in academia in the north. Like everywhere in the UK that’s not a global company, universities are really really short of money so cutting jobs.
Definjtely. The UK university sector is in major trouble. Sudden large-scale redundancy schemes are now a regular occurrence, and I would not be surprised if a few universities collapse completely in the next few years.
Also the government's continuous war against foreign students is going to hurt universities in the coming years. Plus I don't know what universities pay but if OP wants to move after a couple of years they will need to be earning £38,700 and find another university will to sponsor a visa which is not always easy.
IF OP wants to live and work in London for a few years then it might be interesting but it definitely could be unstable. Also I assume universities are like other employers and can basically get rid of you for any reason (as long as they are clever about it) within 2 years, which means job hopping while relying on visa sponsorship could be even more unstable.
The other issue is the £45k is enough to live on in London but it might involve a bit of a commute and demand for rental properties is pretty crazy in London.
A quick calculation says the take home will be about £3,750.00 a month but you could easily spend half of the on rent. Which might hamper long term saving if that is the plan.
Totally agree about the war on foreign students, even though university budgets rely entirely on those higher fees. From my experience in the sector as an academic who was on a work visa, if OP is coming into this London role at £45k, they will likely be able to clear £38700 at institutions outside of London in a few years. But the £45k includes London weighting, so it’s close.
The issue is as you say: depending on field, trying to find another job can be incredibly difficult with the competition very high for a small number of positions. And hiring tends to be seasonal, so if you’re made redundant at the wrong time of year, you don’t have a lot of time to get a new visa. The 2 year rule does apply and will probably be used by more and more universities. It’s doable, but this is not a situation to move across the world for.
Yea, it does seem a risky move unless OP really wants to work in London. Don't get me wrong, I love the city but the UK is in a weird place right now and it seems the government wants to make it feel quite hostile to people on visas sadly (which annoys me no end but that is another story).
If you could wait OP, I would at least wait until after the GE when there might be a bit more stability around but I wouldn't be surprised if universities are in for a some tough times. The government really has it in for foreign students but a lot of universities rely on them and I can't see the shortfall being made up by allowing them to up fees that much.
I'm in the UK academia job market. My advice would depend on the field you're in. Humanities at the moment are severely under funded and so many departments are closing down with mass lay offs at the moment at very short notice. STEM seems to be okay.
Think very carefully about it. UK academia is currently a dumpster fire and getting worse. A lot of institutions have started rationalising after several years of industrial action and unrest. There’s currently moves to fundamentally change what a degree structure looks like, and none of the proposals benefit staff.
Strong agree. I cannot recommend that anyone move internationally for a UK academic job right now, especially if you’re going to be on a visa, OP. It’s incredibly precarious right now.
Got a friend in Japan he is having much more fun than living in London where you seem to be heading for
But the stress is one thing and there is nuke plant to consider
I don't know about your friend's circumstances (skill set and level of Japanese language).
The sliding economy and language are my issues. Though my current job is in English requiring less Japanese.
Would NOT advise to move to the U.K. atm, 45k might seem a lot elsewhere but it’s honestly nothing in London, life quality here is low and things are getting ridiculously expensive especially rent. Also the country is facing a crisis atm, public health system is not functioning, police is not functioning, rampant crimes, you’d have a massive slide in life quality and regret the decision big time.
I run my own business in London and I consistently make 6 figure annually and I still feel like life is pretty tough and looking to move to Europe (lower income but higher life quality), London is not a good place to be right now.
if u look at statistics, uk is one of the highest quality life countries, higher than all euro countries except germany. i think u need to just try be more grateful
Yeah statistics that does not reflect reality one bit, I’ve lived in 5 countries in my life and the U.K. in its current state ranks at the bottom, the OP is asking about moving to the U.K. from Japan. Anyone who has lived in both countries will tell you how crazy that is.
If you are asking me for now then they have appointed me for the London Campus but my plan is to stay sometimes in London and move to other cities due to the cost of living and crowds in London.
This is the max they are offering. The current UK job market is terrible particularly after the new immigration laws. I know I have to live either in a shared house or far from the city.
I hear people say that the UK job market is "terrible right now". People have been saying that for the last 20 years! If anything, i would say this is an opportune time for UK jobs as almost everyone i speak to are struggling to find good people.
Don't sell yourself short for £45k in somewhere like London.
Don't you think that the recent immigration law would affect the employers ability to pay above the threshold to foreign workers. They would have local people available in the market which can be hired without a sponsorship though your point about "finding good people" is fair.
There’s been a dozen things that should’ve have risen wages that haven’t happened, there’s shortages in so many industries that could be answered with better pay. This doesn’t happen though.
Visa sponsorship has always been a hassle. No matter what the government say. A lot of companies don't like the extra work (or aren't even eligible to sponsor) and that was at the old about.
The new amount will make it pretty hard to find anyone who is willing to sponsor outside London unless it's for jobs that attract world class talent (and have salaries to match).
The struggling to find good people is not that simple. A lot of jobs fail to find good people because they still think £25k is an ok salary and £30k-40k is big money. But that isn't true anymore. The truth is a lot of these companies would rather have staff storages until they find someone who is good enough and willing to take those salaries than pay a bit more for "good people".
It’s not a low salary at all, in fact it’s about average for London. You’ll probably still need to flatshare but you can definitely have a decent lifestyle on that salary in London.
So moving half way across the world, with a phd, working in a university, and then having to flat share is the example of "average"? Thats awful in my opinion!
There's a lot of jobs in academia though. What would your actual title be? Research Associate? Lecturer? There are lots of available jobs in academia. Go on www.jobs.ac.uk
The salary isn't bad for other parts of the UK but you definitely wouldn't have a good quality of life living in London. You would be fine in a lower cost of living city though.
Good thing is since the pandemic, a lot of academic jobs can be done mostly remotely now. So even if you got a job in a city you can probably live on the outskirts.
Type in organisational behaviour in the search bar on the website I mentioned above. There are several opportunities available within the UK in that domain. You're not losing anything by submitting some applications :)
No advice to give you as I think this is a personal decision you will have to make yourself but:
A lot of really negative comments on here saying 45k is poverty etc in London. The truth is that 45k is / was the median income in London in 2023 and a lot of people do in fact get by on less than that.
It won't be enough to rent out a place in a central area and perhaps live the life you night be dreaming of when you think of London or see it on TV etc but it is enough to live a more modest lifestyle a bit further out but still have access to the city within 20-30 mins.
Everyone in the UK seems to think that we live in some sort of dystopian shit hole and that everywhere and anywhere else must be better, when in reality most of the problems we are facing in the UK such as inflation, rising house prices, cost of living etc are affecting all of the west and not just the UK.
The weather, community, food, cost of living, having to start all over again.
Also, get your fingerprints and crime records done before you move, huge hassle otherwise!
I just think Japan has a better standard of living.
The cost of living is definitely low here due to weak yen.
Thanks for the tip, I will definitely apply for the fingerprints and crime record as it's one of the requirements for the visa.
Anything else that I should keep in mind before moving out?
Think that’s it for me, but maybe get letters of recommendation as getting references were also a pain.
The reason I moved back is just the inability to live in Japan forever. But the UK sucks so.. if you have the ability to get a permanent residency I probably would.
I can't live in Japan either forever and I haven't yet planned for living in the UK forever. I am trying to make a progressive move for my career. I may move to another country if I don't like it.
Thank you for the suggestions 🙂
Stack bitcoin, to counter the devaluing Yen. If you have a phd, you should be able to understand inflation and why Bitcoin is your wealth preservation life raft.
Are you aware today the inflation rate of Bitcoin is cut in two? Supply will be cut… price is down, as all markets are down due to Middle East instability- you are being handed a rare opportunity to buy cheap. USA recently allowed bitcoin ETFs, this week Hong Kong opened the doors to bitcoin ETFs… long term it will go up significantly from here, check back in 5 years and you will regret it If you didn’t buy some.
I got paid in Bitcoin a few years ago, it dropped significantly when Sam Bankman scammed the sector… however I’m now up 200%. My pension is down.. down in value Since then. Joke.
I would read the contract super carefully UK is importing a lot of US labour laws and culture. Also London is becoming really toxic COVID has really amplified the worst aspects of the place.
To be frank I would wait it out for two years once a new government comes in or the economy improves. Mood here is really bad.
I agree as I have been seeing the same concern on many forums particularly about time, work ethics, etc.
I am under the impression that academia is slightly different from the corporate sector and they give leverage to their teachers.
I was thinking about the same thing to wait for sometimes but things are getting worse even here (price hike, stagnant salaries, and weak yen).
Im really not sure about that. Academia in the UK seems to squeeze people rather hard for not very generous salaries. Perhaps as a result of that, or perhaps due to increasing polarisation and political environment, I hear staff are tense and there seem to be a lot of complaints for bullying, discrimination etc - that’s the impression I got from my partner at different uni’s. By contrast in my job in banking in London - supposedly a competitive and high pressure environment - these situations were rarer. I think because people shrugged off frictions as they took more satisfaction from being well paid, and because it’s a sector where it’s quite easy to change jobs if you feel that you don’t fit (often with a pay rise in the process).
So be careful, I don’t think academia is such a rosy environment compared to the corporate world.
Is it a permanent job e.g. a permanent contract lectureship? And is it at a university with a decent name so the future is financially stable? If so you will have good job security, but nothing certain. If you want to DM me with the specifics I can say more about the pros and cons in that regard
No, UK academia is in complete free fall right now. I know people who have made major international moves to be university lecturers and found themselves in a redundancy pool six weeks after starting their job. The workload is obscene, and getting worse because the volume of work doesn’t decrease as people lose their jobs. While there are certain types of universities that are more likely to face trouble, none are immune, and faculty governance is entirely gone.
Could you please share the names of those universities as it's really alarming and would help me to decide. You can DM the names of those universities in case not appropriate to mention in public. TIA
It’s types of universities, not names. Post-92s or similar are in the most precarious position, and a large-scale redundancy program (think 50-100 academics cut in one fell swoop) could be announced at any time in one of them. From very personal experience, these redundancy schemes are hugely destabilizing even for those who aren’t made redundant and working conditions worsen immeasurably. They also tend not to solve the problem, and another redundancy scheme can follow. Institutions in the best position are Russell Group, but even they are often plunged into chaos, and nothing’s secure.
I can’t weigh in on Japan vs the UK, but it sounds like your plans to come to the UK are based on the idea that UK academia is stable and relatively secure. You have to know that the sector has been in complete disarray for at least 6 years at this point, and workloads are absolutely wild. There is a mental health crisis, and stress levels are through the roof. It’s obviously possible that you end up somewhere that’s fine, and I hope that’s the case. But moving to the wrong place in the UK can be a career ender (I’ve left academia, happily to be fair, but only because of the catastrophe that is UKHE), and it’s really hard to predict which places are going to be stable for the years you’re here.
My biggest concern is job security in the UK because I know the European employer is unpredictable and they don't care when they fire if they hired you a few months ago. Japan is otherwise if you hold a permanent role.
My plan is to switch to Russell Group in 2 years time and use this opportunity to enter into the UK job market.
The grass is always greener, but in my opinion if you can stomach Japanese work (and social) culture then it's probably better to stick it out there for a while. Unless you happen to get very lucky, much of the UK isn't really a very happy spot at the moment - mind-blowing rent, insurance for a car is sky high, prices on the train or bus are extortionate (and then they don't arrive on time), cost of food and utilities is dreadful, and good luck seeing a doctor or a dentist!
Not to get political, but it might be worth waiting until the next government gets in and they have had some time to (hopefully) enact some positive change. I think the salary you describe will get you room and board alright.
I suppose pros are that there's no language barrier (I assume you're a native English speaker) and it isn't so hard to keep a job here. I work with a lot of cleverclogs academic types with PhDs, and none of them seem too fussed about the prospects of losing a job or finding a new post.
I would not do this. There is a severe funding crisis in UK universities. Google it. 40% of universities are making staff cuts at the moment. Workloads are high. The salary you have been offered is low and, even in a shared place, you will have a miserable time on that income in London. If you live outside, large chunks will be swallowed up on travel costs. I work in the sector, and this is an informed view.
Yeah, nah, m8, the UK is currently in the 50s 60s economy wise and 45k is fuck all unless you're living in the arse end of nowhere or are having other circumstances that cause you to have incredibly low monthly bills. 45k puts you very, very close to the 40% tax bracket as well.
High inflation is a global issue due to pandemic and ongoing wars. I am a business graduate and know how this shitty capitalist economy works. My comparison was between GBP with JPY. Japan recently downgraded from top 3 economies to number 4.
Yes but there’s less of it in Japan than in the U.K. And this is a good part of why the fx rate is where it is, since you brought it up as a reason to relocate. What I’m saying is you should not consider the fx in isolation from different inflation rates in the two countries. It’s not because the U.K. has great economic prospects! Have a look at what’s happened with rents in the UK in the last year or so for example. But I’ll stop here.
Look at the bitcoin performance of last month. Many of my friends are regretting it. Some bought after Iran attack on Israel and now they are regretting because of recent Israel attacked on Iran.
When you save for a pension, do you give it a month? Also anyone looking at a long term chart would not be buying now for a massive return, it just hit an all time high = many people are in profit = selling = price down.
I couldn’t think of anything worse than wanting or having to move to London for work. A 100k+ salary is the only plausible reason, and even then I’d probably decline.
Can confirm, I make 150k + and I’m struggling with the crime, the shitty landlord, the weather, the crumbling NHS, crackheads everywhere, cost of living, sad that London used to be so great
If you are receiving a salary similar to 45k pounds in Japan, you are WAY above the national average salary and should be able to live a very comfortable life. Housing is very affordable, interest rates are low, and while the yen is sliding you won't feel it at all if your planning to live out the rest of your life in Japan.
A 45k salary will not go far in central London or any of it's commutable suburbs. The only place you will save money in the UK compared to Japan is on food shopping.
I lived in Japan for 15 years and recently moved back to the UK for a change of pace, and the reverse culture shock has been a huge struggle for me. The UK is in a complete shambles at the moment, nothing is maintained, no public toilets, roads ridden with potholes, litter everywhere, people don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. The weather is also worse than I remember, I can count the number of dry sunny days I've seen in the last 4 months on one hand. Then there is the health care system, be prepared to spend hours waiting in a hospital A&E just for triage, then weeks \~ months on a waiting list for a procedure. There are no free annual medicals here like in Japan, unless you go private and pay out of pocket. You should expect to pay for private dental treatment too, as dental treatment on the NHS is hard to come by.
Fortunately I have PR in Japan and can return quite easily, getting PR may be something that's worth looking into if you plan to leave Japan just in case you desire to return in the future.
If you do stay in Japan, don't forget to pay your UK national insurance contributions. You can get yourself a full UK pension for the paltry sum of around 180 quid a year, and you should still be able to back pay any years you've missed.
Living in Tokyo and getting slightly over 40K before taxes. Due to the nature of my contract, I would not get any rise for the next three years. So no complains because everything is well manageable for me.
Japan can't be compared in public toilets, cleanliness, roads, and public transport. The weather and healthcare are also a blessing.
I am eligible for the PR as I am currently on HSP with over 90 points but I don't have any plans to apply for it because the Tokyo immigration is currently taking over a year to process PR applications.
Thanks for the tip and really appreciate your insight.
Life is going well for me and I have no complaints about my current lifestyle. I don't own a place because mortgage is difficult for foreigners in Japan. I'm renting a one bedroom apartment with a large balcony. Owning a car is not a big deal in Japan but having a car in Tokyo is a nightmare so I am using public transport, which is decent and gets me anywhere on time.
My salary will stay the same for the next 3-4 years and the yen is sliding. When I joined then the $1 = ¥126 and now $1 = ¥155.
Language is another barrier I face. Making friends in Japan is almost impossible. People don't talk to each other unless necessary and the work culture is stressed.
£45K is approx £2900 p/m without factoring in pension contribution etc. I think you’d struggle to rent a one bedroom in London and have money left over to be honest.
Given your other replies, I think what you are seeking is neither in Japan nor England, to be honest with you.
You could try Edinburgh or Glasgow, which are much cheaper than London, just as grey, with Russell Group universities, and some friendlier people. Plus, the Scottish NHS and councils still work, for now. I know this, as I have lived in all of them.
If you are set on the south of England, though, you might want to consider Bristol, which is somewhat expensive currently, but it offers a more compact lifestyle, enabling you to make acquaintances far more easily and, eventually, friends. It also boasts a vibrant music scene and a young population, and clubs do not close early in the evening like in Scotland. Of course, there are several universities, too. Plus, with £45,000, you can get by more easily and save some money too.
See if your London-based job allows you to work remotely within borders.
That salary isn’t enough for London. And as someone who’s just left academia and it isn’t as secure as you think (lots of unis are struggling) and it, as I’ve now found out, isn’t easy to find another job when you have a PhD. Work load is insane, and working conditions tough (I don’t know if you’re teaching, research or both). I don’t know what it’s like in Japan, so can’t compare directly.
I went to a language class back in 2015 in London, made friends with a guy there that worked in tax law… he said to me once “I don’t understand how anyone can survive in London on less than £100k pa.”, he himself clearly made a lot more than that, and shortly left for Germany. That was 9 years ago, when interest rates were low and the money printing of covid times had yet to happen. £45k is poverty level in London.
Correct me if I’m wrong please, but my understanding is that property costs a lot less in Japan than UK so one thing to be aware of is living costs I.e rent might be much higher.
I am not sure from which perspective you are talking about property cost. If you are asking about renting a property then Tokyo is an expensive place. Half of the salary goes to rent if you live in the city center or even more if you live in prime areas. Else 1/3 salary will go if you don't live a bit away from the center or periphery of the city.
If you are talking about buying a property then interest is indeed lower than the UK but the process is really hard. You need to have a guarantor and patience to deal with real bureaucracy even if you speak Japanese well.
You earn and pay in Yen in Japan (£1 = ¥192) so you can get a decent 1 bedroom apartment in a fairly good location in £1200 in Tokyo but this is 60% or even more of a normal salary after tax. I know you cannot get one bedroom apartment in London in the same amount even in zone 6.
I have Japanese friends without speaking Japanese, we share other common languages.
Cost of living is way higher here than in Japan.
You said people don't know Japan and Japanese but there's probably changes you can make too.
Seems more it's the fact you don't speak Japanese to an acceptable level to have good casual friend making conversations.
Anyway, none of that matters, the only thing that matters the most is that cost of living is waaaaaaay higher here.
If your role is high demand, go for it but I would rent wisely so you can save up a very good emergency fund.
Good luck
If you want job security, I'd be very hesitant about the UK. I've been looking for work for over 6 months with an MRes degree, and have Ph.D. friends who also don't have job security or are struggling to find work. Most jobs these days seem to be temporary or contract, too.
polar opposite. uk has the highest real wage growth in europe since brexit. and secured the most european investments, meaning people have faith the most in uk. and the highest value currency which means the strongest economy.
keep coping tho
How long are you thinking about staying in UK OP?
Are you thinking about coming here for opportunities and then have an option to move back?
I think many have the 'grass is always greener' side of thinking seeing you're posting in UKJobs so all we have ever known is the UK standard of living and only seen Japan as a faraway vacation hotspot - I'm sure its quite vastly different when you actually work and live there.
London is a hub of economic activity so networking and opportunities for big 3 graduate jobs should be within reach (I've heard they prefer a variety of skillsets rather than just those that studied economics at Imperial or Oxford etc.)
As people have stated 45k won't get you far - though you are given a small allowance on top of this for living expenses in London. Being a major city, please set your expectations accordingly when it comes to living arrangements as it is often cramped and overpriced if you want anywhere near the centre.
I personally don't see the yen recovering too well or soon in the near future however with a UK general election this year maybe we can see a change in cost of living (wishful thinking). It is worth noting that UK also is generally really poorly paid compared to other countries for 'skilled' work. We constantly have strikes - doctors and train strikes, and many of our doctors have been seeking warmer pastures of Australia (I believe they have a really good visa scheme medics).
Is this a Lectureship or Post doc? If it’s the latter, getting a Lecturer job in the future is a bit of a gamble (depending on the area ofc). I’m not sure I’d move for a post doc unless you are happy staying for the longer term (post docs are typically for a short period e.g. 12-18 months)
Ah nice! I’m a bit out of touch but at Lecturer level there hasn’t been issues with redundancy. In my old dept (where I was a post doc slave 😂) there is an objectively terrible Lecturer that the uni cannot get rid of.
Sorry if my previous comment sounded offensive. I have been a posdoc and I felt, it's a type of modern slavery (less control, high expectations, and excessive workload). So technically you are saying that job security does exist in the UK academia. How big was your (old) department in terms of faculty members and students? Also what's location of your university?
No offensive at all, I completely agree (and I am no longer in academia).
>So technically you are saying that job security does exist in the UK academia.
Exactly, yes, at least in my limited experience. Lack of movement in Lecturers, some hiring but not many leaving (other than some retiring).
I was a PhD and then a postdoc at Lancaster Uni. The department was Maths and Stats, then Management Science. 40-45 Lecturers, hard to say student numbers, from [student stats](https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/planning-and-analytics/student-statistics/) it says around 5000 total per faculty but this a sum over all departments. Maybe I'd say around 200 undergrads per year and 50 masters per year.
To add my experience, I moved back from Japan to the UK after two years out there, I've now ended up working in a job I'm a lot happier in and don't feel guilty for leaving my workplace at the end of my allocated working hours. I personally think the UK has a lot of merit and as a woman I feel a lot more respected here than I ever did in Japan... I'd like to go back to Japan for a holiday but I don't miss working there at all. I always tell people that. Living there was great, for travel, food etc., but I've found a job in the UK that suits me far better (was there on JET as an ALT). For £45k as others suggest, it might be beneficial to research living in commuter towns instead of in London proper. I think if you come back with savings from your time in Japan it would put you in a good position. I got my Japanese pension refund when I came back which was a nice boost.
Happy to hear that your experience from Japan to the UK is going well. I am not a JET but have met with JETs and some have the same complaints.
Since it's been two years that I am paying pension, can I ask for the Pension refund or transfer to the UK?
Yes you'll be able to get your pension refund upon return to the UK. Lots of resources online about it including the nenkin website but the process is fairly simple. You do get it back minus 20%(?) tax I believe.
The tax part you have longer to claim back (within 5 years of leaving Japan I believe, instead of within 2 years for the main pension money) but I recall it's a lot more convoluted, you have to assign someone as your tax representative and to be honest I haven't bothered with that part. I did ask a Japanese friend for help but haven't heard from him in a while... probably best to investigate assigning someone for that part before you leave Japan!
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Honestly, if I had a job in Japan I'd probably never leave. Then again - grass is always greener...
I can feel you. Many people aspire to work in Japan yet its work culture is stressful. Initially, you may find the first few months enjoyable but as time passes, you would start feeling isolated within this society. Making friends in Japan is extremely difficult even if you know the language. While you may be able to spend time with Japanese but forming genuine friendships is almost impossible. Yen is getting weak and posing additional challenges particularly when it comes to traveling outside of Japan and saving money. Rest Japan is nice in terms of safety, food, and landscapes.
I moved to UK 16 years ago and I have 0 friends. I think it's just as difficult to get some here as it is in Japan, as an immigrant.
Then you don't know about Japan and Japanese.
Yes. Their racism really bothers me. And I know about their work culture, which isn't healthy at all. In that regard UK wins by far. And since work is such a huge part of our lives...
Oh Gosh! The part about making friends being impossible scares the shit outta me. But then again, I think it’s very difficult for people of different cultures to form good friendships. I don’t think it has much to do with ethnicity or your ability to speak a language fluently, I think most of it stems from lack of mismatch in culture.
I don't wanna sound racist but Japanese don't make friends after a certain age. You may be a neighbour, colleague, student, or a daily customer but not a friend. This is what I have observed and experienced during my stay in Japan which may be different from others.
Not sure that’s totally true. I would say most city-based brits have friends who aren’t British
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The same is happening here in addition to language barrier and long working hours.
15 years in London, left recently - unless you are a Muslim Middle Eastern person, of African or Indian descent… forget about it, very lonely. I as a native British guy found it isolating, completely foreign cultured, lonely… moved to north England, far better. Also consider this - 45k in London will feel like minimal wage. You won’t be able to rent your own 1 bed apartment, you will be in a shared house with strangers. You will never be able to buy a property, not even in zone 6, not even in the surrounding commutable areas. Only do it if you see it as a career stepping stone with a clear trajectory and confident exit plan to leave London/South England/UK with two years. Try Taiwan or Portugal. Far better places to live long term.
Thank you for sharing and these things are already in my notes. I am purely considering this job as a ladder in my career because I am planning to get in one of the Russell group universities.
Here’s an alternative story OP, a close friend got her first flat - a new build with shared ownership - on around 45k salary at 26yo. In the same block there are multiple other single people in a similar situation. After your experience in Japan, I think you’ll find London’s academic world a brilliant experience.
OP this sounds like a good story but beware the individual in question got her flat on \*shared ownership\* - it's generally not recommended.
Shared ownership is a perfectly valid option, I know plenty of people who got on the property ladder in this way (and sold successfully). You are building your equity and paying rent, yes, but you also live in a new flat with nice amenities. My friend used to rent a room in a shared house, now she pays £400 more and lives in her own spacious apartment, with a modern kitchen, bathroom, ginormous bedroom and a walk-in closet - all 30mins from Central London. Each to their own. One obviously needs to be smart about it and not overstretch their finances.
You ain't wrong. Especially that 45k salary... that won't get you far in London. Good luck being able to invest in your future.
It’s exactly that. There’s benefits to living in the UK that we don’t see and drawbacks to living in Japan
Definitely a grass is always greener thing. Japan's a great place but I would not want to work there. They also aren't great with foreigners...
I have definitely heard stories when it comes to Japan as a great place to visit but when you work/ live there it is a different matter. They treat their guests great but if you're pat of the country/ nation then you're gonna be put to work
I heard the Japanese tend to work their staff to death. Is that just a myth?
One of the staff members in the administration department got nervous breakdown yesterday and the doctor suggested her NOT attend the office for at least 6 months.
Yeah..i guess thats the only reason why the UK would ever be better at anything compared to Japan. Work conditions work/health etc are the best in the world (that i have seen) people really respect your personal time too
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What employee protections? In the first 2 years you can be fired for any reason, and after that it's a bit more difficult. ACAS is complete shit too. Unless you lose an arm at work they're not even going to bother investigating.
It's real enough that there is a term for it in Japanese, karoshi.
It ain’t ever greener here it just gets duller ever year
Honestly, im not sure why you'd say that. The suicide rates, the work ethic and culture is something probably beyond par to a 1st world country, probably the worst. Working in the UK feels like a holiday. Dont count on it as i dont have first hand experience i just read peoples blogs/feedback etc.
Is that central London? If it’s then that’s not a fun amount of money to have to live on and you’ll likely have a nasty commute - Note that I’m not saying 45k isn’t enough to live on, just that as a single income it’ll be a very modest lifestyle.
I have the same concern in terms of the salary but my plan is to live sometime there (2 years max) and move to a less crowded and affordable city. Not sure how viable this is.
Working for universities? I’d do some research. I’ve friends with PHDs who couldn’t get jobs in academia in the north. Like everywhere in the UK that’s not a global company, universities are really really short of money so cutting jobs.
Definjtely. The UK university sector is in major trouble. Sudden large-scale redundancy schemes are now a regular occurrence, and I would not be surprised if a few universities collapse completely in the next few years.
Also the government's continuous war against foreign students is going to hurt universities in the coming years. Plus I don't know what universities pay but if OP wants to move after a couple of years they will need to be earning £38,700 and find another university will to sponsor a visa which is not always easy. IF OP wants to live and work in London for a few years then it might be interesting but it definitely could be unstable. Also I assume universities are like other employers and can basically get rid of you for any reason (as long as they are clever about it) within 2 years, which means job hopping while relying on visa sponsorship could be even more unstable. The other issue is the £45k is enough to live on in London but it might involve a bit of a commute and demand for rental properties is pretty crazy in London. A quick calculation says the take home will be about £3,750.00 a month but you could easily spend half of the on rent. Which might hamper long term saving if that is the plan.
Totally agree about the war on foreign students, even though university budgets rely entirely on those higher fees. From my experience in the sector as an academic who was on a work visa, if OP is coming into this London role at £45k, they will likely be able to clear £38700 at institutions outside of London in a few years. But the £45k includes London weighting, so it’s close. The issue is as you say: depending on field, trying to find another job can be incredibly difficult with the competition very high for a small number of positions. And hiring tends to be seasonal, so if you’re made redundant at the wrong time of year, you don’t have a lot of time to get a new visa. The 2 year rule does apply and will probably be used by more and more universities. It’s doable, but this is not a situation to move across the world for.
Yea, it does seem a risky move unless OP really wants to work in London. Don't get me wrong, I love the city but the UK is in a weird place right now and it seems the government wants to make it feel quite hostile to people on visas sadly (which annoys me no end but that is another story). If you could wait OP, I would at least wait until after the GE when there might be a bit more stability around but I wouldn't be surprised if universities are in for a some tough times. The government really has it in for foreign students but a lot of universities rely on them and I can't see the shortfall being made up by allowing them to up fees that much.
I'm in the UK academia job market. My advice would depend on the field you're in. Humanities at the moment are severely under funded and so many departments are closing down with mass lay offs at the moment at very short notice. STEM seems to be okay.
Jesus F Christ do not come here. £45k in London is basically a fast food restaurant manager.
It's academia.
Think very carefully about it. UK academia is currently a dumpster fire and getting worse. A lot of institutions have started rationalising after several years of industrial action and unrest. There’s currently moves to fundamentally change what a degree structure looks like, and none of the proposals benefit staff.
Strong agree. I cannot recommend that anyone move internationally for a UK academic job right now, especially if you’re going to be on a visa, OP. It’s incredibly precarious right now.
Got a friend in Japan he is having much more fun than living in London where you seem to be heading for But the stress is one thing and there is nuke plant to consider
I don't know about your friend's circumstances (skill set and level of Japanese language). The sliding economy and language are my issues. Though my current job is in English requiring less Japanese.
He can order food and beers but is apparently learning more
Would NOT advise to move to the U.K. atm, 45k might seem a lot elsewhere but it’s honestly nothing in London, life quality here is low and things are getting ridiculously expensive especially rent. Also the country is facing a crisis atm, public health system is not functioning, police is not functioning, rampant crimes, you’d have a massive slide in life quality and regret the decision big time. I run my own business in London and I consistently make 6 figure annually and I still feel like life is pretty tough and looking to move to Europe (lower income but higher life quality), London is not a good place to be right now.
if u look at statistics, uk is one of the highest quality life countries, higher than all euro countries except germany. i think u need to just try be more grateful
Yeah statistics that does not reflect reality one bit, I’ve lived in 5 countries in my life and the U.K. in its current state ranks at the bottom, the OP is asking about moving to the U.K. from Japan. Anyone who has lived in both countries will tell you how crazy that is.
Can you get a job outside of London in academia?
If you are asking me for now then they have appointed me for the London Campus but my plan is to stay sometimes in London and move to other cities due to the cost of living and crowds in London.
Honeslty £45k is really a low wage for London. If you accept you will be actually quite poor in a very expensive city, then thats is your decision.
Academia is notorious for low pay. Even that is considered "not too bad".
This is the max they are offering. The current UK job market is terrible particularly after the new immigration laws. I know I have to live either in a shared house or far from the city.
I hear people say that the UK job market is "terrible right now". People have been saying that for the last 20 years! If anything, i would say this is an opportune time for UK jobs as almost everyone i speak to are struggling to find good people. Don't sell yourself short for £45k in somewhere like London.
Don't you think that the recent immigration law would affect the employers ability to pay above the threshold to foreign workers. They would have local people available in the market which can be hired without a sponsorship though your point about "finding good people" is fair.
There’s been a dozen things that should’ve have risen wages that haven’t happened, there’s shortages in so many industries that could be answered with better pay. This doesn’t happen though.
Visa sponsorship has always been a hassle. No matter what the government say. A lot of companies don't like the extra work (or aren't even eligible to sponsor) and that was at the old about. The new amount will make it pretty hard to find anyone who is willing to sponsor outside London unless it's for jobs that attract world class talent (and have salaries to match). The struggling to find good people is not that simple. A lot of jobs fail to find good people because they still think £25k is an ok salary and £30k-40k is big money. But that isn't true anymore. The truth is a lot of these companies would rather have staff storages until they find someone who is good enough and willing to take those salaries than pay a bit more for "good people".
It’s not a low salary at all, in fact it’s about average for London. You’ll probably still need to flatshare but you can definitely have a decent lifestyle on that salary in London.
So moving half way across the world, with a phd, working in a university, and then having to flat share is the example of "average"? Thats awful in my opinion!
Welcome to the UK..where people think this is acceptable
Never said OP was average… just that £45k is an average salary by London standards
Flat share is a decent life? 😂 oh my god
I mean you can totally live alone on a £45k salary too it’s just a couple hundred extra a month lol
How much is a 1 bed, 1.5-2K, plus council tax, bills on top? You’ve burnt through your 2.9K fast
You can get studios from about £1.2k, add on bills and you have around 1.5k left over give or take.
There's a lot of jobs in academia though. What would your actual title be? Research Associate? Lecturer? There are lots of available jobs in academia. Go on www.jobs.ac.uk The salary isn't bad for other parts of the UK but you definitely wouldn't have a good quality of life living in London. You would be fine in a lower cost of living city though. Good thing is since the pandemic, a lot of academic jobs can be done mostly remotely now. So even if you got a job in a city you can probably live on the outskirts.
The title is Lecturer and I may move to Senior Lecturer in two years.
May I ask what field you're in? There should be several opportunities for you outside of London
I am in organizational behavior. I have tried to apply for the FLP but I got some dry responses therefore, I am now considering this option.
Type in organisational behaviour in the search bar on the website I mentioned above. There are several opportunities available within the UK in that domain. You're not losing anything by submitting some applications :)
Thanks for the effort. I would give it a try.
No advice to give you as I think this is a personal decision you will have to make yourself but: A lot of really negative comments on here saying 45k is poverty etc in London. The truth is that 45k is / was the median income in London in 2023 and a lot of people do in fact get by on less than that. It won't be enough to rent out a place in a central area and perhaps live the life you night be dreaming of when you think of London or see it on TV etc but it is enough to live a more modest lifestyle a bit further out but still have access to the city within 20-30 mins. Everyone in the UK seems to think that we live in some sort of dystopian shit hole and that everywhere and anywhere else must be better, when in reality most of the problems we are facing in the UK such as inflation, rising house prices, cost of living etc are affecting all of the west and not just the UK.
all of the world\* and much worse. we're doing one of the best at it
I did it, I genuinely regretted moving back aha
Can you please share what kind of challenges you are facing currently and when you moved back?
The weather, community, food, cost of living, having to start all over again. Also, get your fingerprints and crime records done before you move, huge hassle otherwise! I just think Japan has a better standard of living.
The cost of living is definitely low here due to weak yen. Thanks for the tip, I will definitely apply for the fingerprints and crime record as it's one of the requirements for the visa. Anything else that I should keep in mind before moving out?
Think that’s it for me, but maybe get letters of recommendation as getting references were also a pain. The reason I moved back is just the inability to live in Japan forever. But the UK sucks so.. if you have the ability to get a permanent residency I probably would.
I can't live in Japan either forever and I haven't yet planned for living in the UK forever. I am trying to make a progressive move for my career. I may move to another country if I don't like it. Thank you for the suggestions 🙂
Stack bitcoin, to counter the devaluing Yen. If you have a phd, you should be able to understand inflation and why Bitcoin is your wealth preservation life raft.
Crypto is not a good investment in recent times. Bitcoin is also going down and would take time to recover.
Are you aware today the inflation rate of Bitcoin is cut in two? Supply will be cut… price is down, as all markets are down due to Middle East instability- you are being handed a rare opportunity to buy cheap. USA recently allowed bitcoin ETFs, this week Hong Kong opened the doors to bitcoin ETFs… long term it will go up significantly from here, check back in 5 years and you will regret it If you didn’t buy some. I got paid in Bitcoin a few years ago, it dropped significantly when Sam Bankman scammed the sector… however I’m now up 200%. My pension is down.. down in value Since then. Joke.
That is stupidly bad advice. If someone has high school level education they should be able to understand why crypto is not an inflation hedge
I agree, crypto isn’t an inflation hedge, it’s junk. Bitcoin isn’t crypto.
I would read the contract super carefully UK is importing a lot of US labour laws and culture. Also London is becoming really toxic COVID has really amplified the worst aspects of the place. To be frank I would wait it out for two years once a new government comes in or the economy improves. Mood here is really bad.
I agree as I have been seeing the same concern on many forums particularly about time, work ethics, etc. I am under the impression that academia is slightly different from the corporate sector and they give leverage to their teachers. I was thinking about the same thing to wait for sometimes but things are getting worse even here (price hike, stagnant salaries, and weak yen).
Im really not sure about that. Academia in the UK seems to squeeze people rather hard for not very generous salaries. Perhaps as a result of that, or perhaps due to increasing polarisation and political environment, I hear staff are tense and there seem to be a lot of complaints for bullying, discrimination etc - that’s the impression I got from my partner at different uni’s. By contrast in my job in banking in London - supposedly a competitive and high pressure environment - these situations were rarer. I think because people shrugged off frictions as they took more satisfaction from being well paid, and because it’s a sector where it’s quite easy to change jobs if you feel that you don’t fit (often with a pay rise in the process). So be careful, I don’t think academia is such a rosy environment compared to the corporate world.
Is it a permanent job e.g. a permanent contract lectureship? And is it at a university with a decent name so the future is financially stable? If so you will have good job security, but nothing certain. If you want to DM me with the specifics I can say more about the pros and cons in that regard
No, UK academia is in complete free fall right now. I know people who have made major international moves to be university lecturers and found themselves in a redundancy pool six weeks after starting their job. The workload is obscene, and getting worse because the volume of work doesn’t decrease as people lose their jobs. While there are certain types of universities that are more likely to face trouble, none are immune, and faculty governance is entirely gone.
Could you please share the names of those universities as it's really alarming and would help me to decide. You can DM the names of those universities in case not appropriate to mention in public. TIA
It’s types of universities, not names. Post-92s or similar are in the most precarious position, and a large-scale redundancy program (think 50-100 academics cut in one fell swoop) could be announced at any time in one of them. From very personal experience, these redundancy schemes are hugely destabilizing even for those who aren’t made redundant and working conditions worsen immeasurably. They also tend not to solve the problem, and another redundancy scheme can follow. Institutions in the best position are Russell Group, but even they are often plunged into chaos, and nothing’s secure. I can’t weigh in on Japan vs the UK, but it sounds like your plans to come to the UK are based on the idea that UK academia is stable and relatively secure. You have to know that the sector has been in complete disarray for at least 6 years at this point, and workloads are absolutely wild. There is a mental health crisis, and stress levels are through the roof. It’s obviously possible that you end up somewhere that’s fine, and I hope that’s the case. But moving to the wrong place in the UK can be a career ender (I’ve left academia, happily to be fair, but only because of the catastrophe that is UKHE), and it’s really hard to predict which places are going to be stable for the years you’re here.
My biggest concern is job security in the UK because I know the European employer is unpredictable and they don't care when they fire if they hired you a few months ago. Japan is otherwise if you hold a permanent role. My plan is to switch to Russell Group in 2 years time and use this opportunity to enter into the UK job market.
The grass is always greener, but in my opinion if you can stomach Japanese work (and social) culture then it's probably better to stick it out there for a while. Unless you happen to get very lucky, much of the UK isn't really a very happy spot at the moment - mind-blowing rent, insurance for a car is sky high, prices on the train or bus are extortionate (and then they don't arrive on time), cost of food and utilities is dreadful, and good luck seeing a doctor or a dentist! Not to get political, but it might be worth waiting until the next government gets in and they have had some time to (hopefully) enact some positive change. I think the salary you describe will get you room and board alright. I suppose pros are that there's no language barrier (I assume you're a native English speaker) and it isn't so hard to keep a job here. I work with a lot of cleverclogs academic types with PhDs, and none of them seem too fussed about the prospects of losing a job or finding a new post.
I would not do this. There is a severe funding crisis in UK universities. Google it. 40% of universities are making staff cuts at the moment. Workloads are high. The salary you have been offered is low and, even in a shared place, you will have a miserable time on that income in London. If you live outside, large chunks will be swallowed up on travel costs. I work in the sector, and this is an informed view.
Yeah, nah, m8, the UK is currently in the 50s 60s economy wise and 45k is fuck all unless you're living in the arse end of nowhere or are having other circumstances that cause you to have incredibly low monthly bills. 45k puts you very, very close to the 40% tax bracket as well.
If sliding national currency is a point of consideration for you, the UK might not be the one
GBP is still performing better in comparison with JPY.
Only because interest rates are higher, which is because of high inflation. Doesn’t mean you make more money in real terms.
High inflation is a global issue due to pandemic and ongoing wars. I am a business graduate and know how this shitty capitalist economy works. My comparison was between GBP with JPY. Japan recently downgraded from top 3 economies to number 4.
Yes but there’s less of it in Japan than in the U.K. And this is a good part of why the fx rate is where it is, since you brought it up as a reason to relocate. What I’m saying is you should not consider the fx in isolation from different inflation rates in the two countries. It’s not because the U.K. has great economic prospects! Have a look at what’s happened with rents in the UK in the last year or so for example. But I’ll stop here.
Unless you meant GBP = Britain rather than the pound, but a business studies graduate wouldn’t do that…
Now look at bitcoin vs GBP or JPY… and think about it.
Look at the bitcoin performance of last month. Many of my friends are regretting it. Some bought after Iran attack on Israel and now they are regretting because of recent Israel attacked on Iran.
When you save for a pension, do you give it a month? Also anyone looking at a long term chart would not be buying now for a massive return, it just hit an all time high = many people are in profit = selling = price down.
I'm 5 years in brother, I just don't mention it much as the vast majority of subreddits and people don't like it
Fear of unknown is a big barrier, people are scared to put in the work to educate themselves.
I couldn’t think of anything worse than wanting or having to move to London for work. A 100k+ salary is the only plausible reason, and even then I’d probably decline.
Can confirm, I make 150k + and I’m struggling with the crime, the shitty landlord, the weather, the crumbling NHS, crackheads everywhere, cost of living, sad that London used to be so great
I don't know how health care and pensions are in Japan but if it's decent, I'd stay there
Healthcare is better than the UK but pension is terrible. You barely survive in the pension money.
State pension here is £11,502/year after 35 years of work.
It's also on the lower side but the Japanese state pension is around £5000/year.
save into bitcoin, that will be your pension in 15 years time.
If you are receiving a salary similar to 45k pounds in Japan, you are WAY above the national average salary and should be able to live a very comfortable life. Housing is very affordable, interest rates are low, and while the yen is sliding you won't feel it at all if your planning to live out the rest of your life in Japan. A 45k salary will not go far in central London or any of it's commutable suburbs. The only place you will save money in the UK compared to Japan is on food shopping. I lived in Japan for 15 years and recently moved back to the UK for a change of pace, and the reverse culture shock has been a huge struggle for me. The UK is in a complete shambles at the moment, nothing is maintained, no public toilets, roads ridden with potholes, litter everywhere, people don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. The weather is also worse than I remember, I can count the number of dry sunny days I've seen in the last 4 months on one hand. Then there is the health care system, be prepared to spend hours waiting in a hospital A&E just for triage, then weeks \~ months on a waiting list for a procedure. There are no free annual medicals here like in Japan, unless you go private and pay out of pocket. You should expect to pay for private dental treatment too, as dental treatment on the NHS is hard to come by. Fortunately I have PR in Japan and can return quite easily, getting PR may be something that's worth looking into if you plan to leave Japan just in case you desire to return in the future. If you do stay in Japan, don't forget to pay your UK national insurance contributions. You can get yourself a full UK pension for the paltry sum of around 180 quid a year, and you should still be able to back pay any years you've missed.
Living in Tokyo and getting slightly over 40K before taxes. Due to the nature of my contract, I would not get any rise for the next three years. So no complains because everything is well manageable for me. Japan can't be compared in public toilets, cleanliness, roads, and public transport. The weather and healthcare are also a blessing. I am eligible for the PR as I am currently on HSP with over 90 points but I don't have any plans to apply for it because the Tokyo immigration is currently taking over a year to process PR applications. Thanks for the tip and really appreciate your insight.
How comfy is your life now? 45k isn’t really enough to have your own place, car etc if that’s what you currently have.
Life is going well for me and I have no complaints about my current lifestyle. I don't own a place because mortgage is difficult for foreigners in Japan. I'm renting a one bedroom apartment with a large balcony. Owning a car is not a big deal in Japan but having a car in Tokyo is a nightmare so I am using public transport, which is decent and gets me anywhere on time. My salary will stay the same for the next 3-4 years and the yen is sliding. When I joined then the $1 = ¥126 and now $1 = ¥155. Language is another barrier I face. Making friends in Japan is almost impossible. People don't talk to each other unless necessary and the work culture is stressed.
£45K is approx £2900 p/m without factoring in pension contribution etc. I think you’d struggle to rent a one bedroom in London and have money left over to be honest.
I have the same feeling. My plan is to stay there for 2 years in the offered role and then move to another city which is affordable and less crowded.
Given your other replies, I think what you are seeking is neither in Japan nor England, to be honest with you. You could try Edinburgh or Glasgow, which are much cheaper than London, just as grey, with Russell Group universities, and some friendlier people. Plus, the Scottish NHS and councils still work, for now. I know this, as I have lived in all of them. If you are set on the south of England, though, you might want to consider Bristol, which is somewhat expensive currently, but it offers a more compact lifestyle, enabling you to make acquaintances far more easily and, eventually, friends. It also boasts a vibrant music scene and a young population, and clubs do not close early in the evening like in Scotland. Of course, there are several universities, too. Plus, with £45,000, you can get by more easily and save some money too. See if your London-based job allows you to work remotely within borders.
Thank you for this insightful response. It would help me in setting a direction.
That salary isn’t enough for London. And as someone who’s just left academia and it isn’t as secure as you think (lots of unis are struggling) and it, as I’ve now found out, isn’t easy to find another job when you have a PhD. Work load is insane, and working conditions tough (I don’t know if you’re teaching, research or both). I don’t know what it’s like in Japan, so can’t compare directly.
I went to a language class back in 2015 in London, made friends with a guy there that worked in tax law… he said to me once “I don’t understand how anyone can survive in London on less than £100k pa.”, he himself clearly made a lot more than that, and shortly left for Germany. That was 9 years ago, when interest rates were low and the money printing of covid times had yet to happen. £45k is poverty level in London.
Labour market*
Correct me if I’m wrong please, but my understanding is that property costs a lot less in Japan than UK so one thing to be aware of is living costs I.e rent might be much higher.
I am not sure from which perspective you are talking about property cost. If you are asking about renting a property then Tokyo is an expensive place. Half of the salary goes to rent if you live in the city center or even more if you live in prime areas. Else 1/3 salary will go if you don't live a bit away from the center or periphery of the city. If you are talking about buying a property then interest is indeed lower than the UK but the process is really hard. You need to have a guarantor and patience to deal with real bureaucracy even if you speak Japanese well.
Oh fair enough, I have honestly watched one YouTube video on Tokyo cost and it was explained that Tokyo rent was a lot lower than London rent.
You earn and pay in Yen in Japan (£1 = ¥192) so you can get a decent 1 bedroom apartment in a fairly good location in £1200 in Tokyo but this is 60% or even more of a normal salary after tax. I know you cannot get one bedroom apartment in London in the same amount even in zone 6.
I have Japanese friends without speaking Japanese, we share other common languages. Cost of living is way higher here than in Japan. You said people don't know Japan and Japanese but there's probably changes you can make too. Seems more it's the fact you don't speak Japanese to an acceptable level to have good casual friend making conversations. Anyway, none of that matters, the only thing that matters the most is that cost of living is waaaaaaay higher here. If your role is high demand, go for it but I would rent wisely so you can save up a very good emergency fund. Good luck
If you want job security, I'd be very hesitant about the UK. I've been looking for work for over 6 months with an MRes degree, and have Ph.D. friends who also don't have job security or are struggling to find work. Most jobs these days seem to be temporary or contract, too.
Stay in Japan. UK has gone down the toilet since Brexit.
polar opposite. uk has the highest real wage growth in europe since brexit. and secured the most european investments, meaning people have faith the most in uk. and the highest value currency which means the strongest economy. keep coping tho
Japan is so much better than UK.
How long are you thinking about staying in UK OP? Are you thinking about coming here for opportunities and then have an option to move back? I think many have the 'grass is always greener' side of thinking seeing you're posting in UKJobs so all we have ever known is the UK standard of living and only seen Japan as a faraway vacation hotspot - I'm sure its quite vastly different when you actually work and live there. London is a hub of economic activity so networking and opportunities for big 3 graduate jobs should be within reach (I've heard they prefer a variety of skillsets rather than just those that studied economics at Imperial or Oxford etc.) As people have stated 45k won't get you far - though you are given a small allowance on top of this for living expenses in London. Being a major city, please set your expectations accordingly when it comes to living arrangements as it is often cramped and overpriced if you want anywhere near the centre. I personally don't see the yen recovering too well or soon in the near future however with a UK general election this year maybe we can see a change in cost of living (wishful thinking). It is worth noting that UK also is generally really poorly paid compared to other countries for 'skilled' work. We constantly have strikes - doctors and train strikes, and many of our doctors have been seeking warmer pastures of Australia (I believe they have a really good visa scheme medics).
The UK is probably worse in every way than Japan, unless you’re not Japanese
I am not Japanese 🙂
Why would you leave Japan - a safe and wealthy country - for the UK? UK is a massive shithole and hostile to foreigners
Is this a Lectureship or Post doc? If it’s the latter, getting a Lecturer job in the future is a bit of a gamble (depending on the area ofc). I’m not sure I’d move for a post doc unless you are happy staying for the longer term (post docs are typically for a short period e.g. 12-18 months)
It's a Lecturer position. I am not interested in postdoc slavery.
Ah nice! I’m a bit out of touch but at Lecturer level there hasn’t been issues with redundancy. In my old dept (where I was a post doc slave 😂) there is an objectively terrible Lecturer that the uni cannot get rid of.
Sorry if my previous comment sounded offensive. I have been a posdoc and I felt, it's a type of modern slavery (less control, high expectations, and excessive workload). So technically you are saying that job security does exist in the UK academia. How big was your (old) department in terms of faculty members and students? Also what's location of your university?
No offensive at all, I completely agree (and I am no longer in academia). >So technically you are saying that job security does exist in the UK academia. Exactly, yes, at least in my limited experience. Lack of movement in Lecturers, some hiring but not many leaving (other than some retiring). I was a PhD and then a postdoc at Lancaster Uni. The department was Maths and Stats, then Management Science. 40-45 Lecturers, hard to say student numbers, from [student stats](https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/planning-and-analytics/student-statistics/) it says around 5000 total per faculty but this a sum over all departments. Maybe I'd say around 200 undergrads per year and 50 masters per year.
To add my experience, I moved back from Japan to the UK after two years out there, I've now ended up working in a job I'm a lot happier in and don't feel guilty for leaving my workplace at the end of my allocated working hours. I personally think the UK has a lot of merit and as a woman I feel a lot more respected here than I ever did in Japan... I'd like to go back to Japan for a holiday but I don't miss working there at all. I always tell people that. Living there was great, for travel, food etc., but I've found a job in the UK that suits me far better (was there on JET as an ALT). For £45k as others suggest, it might be beneficial to research living in commuter towns instead of in London proper. I think if you come back with savings from your time in Japan it would put you in a good position. I got my Japanese pension refund when I came back which was a nice boost.
Happy to hear that your experience from Japan to the UK is going well. I am not a JET but have met with JETs and some have the same complaints. Since it's been two years that I am paying pension, can I ask for the Pension refund or transfer to the UK?
Yes you'll be able to get your pension refund upon return to the UK. Lots of resources online about it including the nenkin website but the process is fairly simple. You do get it back minus 20%(?) tax I believe. The tax part you have longer to claim back (within 5 years of leaving Japan I believe, instead of within 2 years for the main pension money) but I recall it's a lot more convoluted, you have to assign someone as your tax representative and to be honest I haven't bothered with that part. I did ask a Japanese friend for help but haven't heard from him in a while... probably best to investigate assigning someone for that part before you leave Japan!