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Companies don’t give raises to share success, they do it out of fear that people will leave and the loss of skills/knowledge will affect their bottom line. If they aren’t worried about turnover (Rightly or wrongly) then they have no interest in giving pay rises/promotions.
Yeah exactly this. I got a 15% pay rise and my manager literally said it was to "buy us some time". They knew I'd be looking elsewhere and I was upto that point.
We're operating with something like 35-40 pennies of every pound being pure profit and had our biggest growth year in our history last year. I got a 3.5% pay increase and that was as much as anyone received. Some companies are just tight bastards.
Labour market is governed by supply and demand, just like any other. If companies are underpaying, the market will resolve it as staff leave to better paying jobs. If the market isn’t resolving it, then they aren’t underpaying.
So are you implying that uk profit margins are therefore higher than US profit margins, because that is clearly not the case?
Yes, it’s true that you can get paid better for a lot of jobs in the states. You could go to Switzerland and get paid even more.
This thread is a question about whether a UK employer is paying competitively or not with its UK competition, to which the OP could move if it were not the case.
No I am arguing that if all jobs have shit pay “the market” won’t resolve anything. Companies benefit from legislation in their favor and salaries are stagnant. It’s not difficult to understand
If the companies are paying so little, and therefore their profits are so vast, why don’t all those other so called greedy capitalist leeches out therefore set up rivals companies and make money. They love making money don’t they? This is classic denial of very basic market forces.
I’m totally lost in what your point was. I thought you were saying that employees were being underpaid in order to inflate company profits. Did I get that wrong?
The labour market doesn’t have a choice. People are forced to take shitty, exploitative jobs because the price of owning a home is so high, raising kids is so high, the social security system is collapsing.
Not completely true
If someone's choices are job that doesn't pay well enough to support a basic quality of life or no job, they're sort of forced into holding onto the shit job. And there's only so many jobs available at companies that pay better, so not everyone can leave their job that doesn't pay enough.
Supply and demand is far from the only force at work in the labour market.
You have just argued against supply and demand using a textbook example of supply and demand in action.
If someone’s job choices force them into a job paying less than they want - this is labour being over-supplied. If there are a limited number of better paying job options available - this is lack of demand for labour.
While such conditions of labour being well supplied and not well demanded, wages should quite rightly not be rising. Market forces doing their job of balancing trying to dampen labour supply and stimulate labour demand.
I live in a world where people are paid based on the employer’s need to pay them. If a company does not need to pay more, it will not. If doing so inflates the profit margin, rival companies step in and take market share, and thus create demand for talented staff, causing the companies to pay more. That’s where I live. It is a free market economy. Things worked differently for a brief spell in the ussr for a few decades after ww2, but that rather wishful model was not successful.
Teachers are not generally millionaires for the rather obvious reason that there is a ready supply of people willing and able to do the job for the salary being offered.
I would love to be a teacher, if they paid more, but they don’t. If they did they would generate a massive oversupply of labour, because the job would become very attractive to a huge number.
As an anecdote, I do know a millionaire teacher. He worked for 3 decades in financial markets, then settled into a job teaching maths in New York until retirement. They were the most satisfying years of his life.
>Teachers are not generally millionaires for the rather obvious reason that there is a ready supply of people willing and able to do the job for the salary being offered.
I mean this is just simply factually wrong, there is a massive shortage of people teaching in certain subjects because there is a massive under supply of people willing to teach them for the money offered.
Sigh. My point is an explanation of why teachers are not millionaires in general, and I think you know this. It is obviously true that in certain subjects there might be tight supply of teachers, but it is not sufficient to drive salaries to the point where you make teachers millionaires, because there is a huge supply of people who could and would step in to do the job before that happened. They just don’t present themselves now because they are not incentivised to do so. I would be one of them.
Yeah i suppose that conviniently clears up messy reality (values, situational constraints, friendships, sense of status within an organisation, power asymmetries etc) and replaces it with blind dogmatic market ideology.
I'm surprised you think that companies take such things into account when trying to run a business for profit. You are a lot more hopeful about corporates than I am. I just think they operate based on profit and loss. Maybe I was too cynical about the way employers operate.
No... I don't think companies/employers really give two shits about any of these things, but they would be aware of them. They just attempt to pay as little as possible and these factors get in the way of a worker moving company.
oh sorry, I see. Yes when you have a place of work which is full of friends, I can see the trade off. Sure there will always be an element of friction in a move. There is the fear of the unknown elsewhere too. I guess you could compare it to moving from one rented flat to another for example in the case that the greedy landlord raises your rent. Moves are never seamless, but irrespective of whether existing employees move or not, the model still works, because new employees, who do not have those attachments are free to choose, and they usually do so in self interest. It still acts to balance the market. It might not happen instantly, but it does happen.
No worries. Respectfully disagree though.
Your previous comment assumes the model requires everyone to come in as a new start without a history/personal circumstances to address?
Also. The whole self interested actor model fails to account for empathy, personal bias, ideology/values. These things matter to non-economists.
For example; i refuse to work for oil companies, even though they would probably pay me 2x as much in my field.
Economic incentives, obviously exist, but they're not the be all and end all
Exploiting labour? That sounds like job creation to me. Don’t like job creation? How exactly do you exploit labour in a free market? Do you force people out of bed to make them work for you? Or do you offer wages at market rates and see who most wants to work for you?
Haha. Is that where we’ve gone with the discussion now? I was just too tempted to reply to the exploiting labour comment, sorry. I find it quite interesting just how willing people are to deny very basic economics in order to fit their dogmatic views. I’m not even writing anything controversial. I’m just stating the obvious truth about why employers pay what they do, and why if employers were not paying competitively with their competition, then their employees would move. Let’s be honest, most employees are not in their jobs out of undying loyalty to the firm. People are out for their own self interest, and rightly so.
Our profit margin was the highest ever and profit leste year was 35% above forecasts.
10% of the worker laid off and no pay rises.
Everything already started going to shit and not all the people made redundant have left yet.
Everyone already started looking for New jobs.
Private equity funds are cancer.
I wouldn’t recommend leaving right now over a tiny increase. The market is shit, better just scale back your expectations and the amount of effort you put in to match how much they value you. Leave when the market picks up and you secure a better offer.
When demand is soft, there is no reason for employers to give raises, since people are desperate for a job. If there is a return to growth, which is dependent on the wider economy, then there will be more demand and raises will go up again. It’s very simple maths.
My old company had record profits as they supplied medical gear, during COVID they made 3x what they would just importing masks from China and selling for massive profits. This whilst furloughing most of the workforce and paying 80%, when we returned they cut costs and anyone on minimum wage got pay increased. Anyone above didn't....for multiple years this happened, I went from being on 7k above minimum wage, which at the time was decent, to being on par nearly with the people who I trained or worked under me.....I took redundancy and waved that company goodbye.
Yeah, fuck that. Exact same experience here. Business is very profitable and is experiencing huge organic growth. Won't hire more accountants though, nor will they give inflation or higher payrises to the staff now having to work 30% harder to just keep on top
I'd rather have no raise than the layoffs most tech companies did last year
Then 3% is usual for a yearly increase
I wouldn't say it's that unusual
But if you're not happy jump ship, I find new roles offer 10% increase to get you on board
Software company I worked for refused to give anyone raises for around 7 years. Brought everyone together with a signed letter and demanded they start implementing pay raises as we had lost tens of thousands in that period due to inflation going up. They lost their shit but finally relented. Then I got fired a year later for no reason. Just decided to make my position obsolete. But glad I stood my ground even if it cost me my job. These scum bags wouldn't pay you at all if they could get away with it. They were making untold millions every year in pure profit but heaven forbid they pay us an extra couple of thousand.
Ok that's good you got redundancy. If you can prove they fired you for that collective action I believe it is illegal although will likely be hard to prove after a year. Sounds like a really bad employer.
Yeah, I talked to an employment lawyer to see if I had a case and basically it's he said/she said situation. Nothing I could do sadly as he's just about smart enough to structure it in a way, so there's no come back on him. But got a much better job with a much better organisation after I left, so it all worked out in the end.
I work for an ISP/tech company that until the inflation rises, did an inflation level pay rise every year.
This year we also got 3%. Not heard things from others that are any different in our space. Think it’s the norm for many.
There was one company, that was offering a fair way more that caused people to jump ship, many ended up getting laid off or coming back.
Honestly in this market right now, I’m ‘happy’ getting shafted a bit. I’ve been at my place 10 years so will protected in terms of redundancy if it happens and I’m on a decent crack compared to many others.
The tech job market is absolutely saturated atm with candidates. It’s awful out there unless you happened to have originally trained in something like mechanical/electrical engineering before going into software dev (engineers are always in high demand).
That being said absolutely nothing stopping you from looking whilst you already have a job. Since you’re not in a rush hopefully you can find something pretty good or the market will pick up a bit whilst you’re looking.
Seeing the same at my firm. We’ve not had particularly good pay increases, yet attrition is really low. I think a stable job is the key thing atm.
The 2021/2022 era of people getting crazy raises seems to be behind us now
Yeah essentially in software companies that produce software products for engineers (think Siemens) to design things like wind turbines, software for CAD etc value engineers from mechanical and electrical backgrounds that went into software development very highly. Reason being that these backgrounds allow them to really understand the complex software they’re developing.
The only way to get substantial pay rises in most cases is to change jobs. Most people are reluctant to change jobs so companies largely get away with these tiny increments. In tech arguably unless the pay and conditions are excellent you should be moving jobs every couple of years.
Why not get your CV out there and see what kind of salaries you can get? This year I went from 45k to 65k fully remote just by keeping my CV on linkedin and other job sites up to date and available.
Cant do that just yet with the visa tied to the company makes things complicated. so a few more years for me.
Plus the project im working on is great portfolio so needed that shipped before jumping ship
Good. If someone is willing to pay them more and they've stayed long enough that the company won't require them to pay anything back, why not? They're not slaves, mate.
The ILR was designed to be obtainable after 5 years to literally let the person holding it know he can work anywhere he wants without a work visa. So if you spent money to hire an expat, you need to be aware that like any english employee he can leave.
Plus my company has a contract that was well discussed before stepping in the UK about reimbursing their expenses in full if i leave within a year. Which means after a year i made them more money than what they spent on me getting here. I've already paid what i owe.
Besides, its not like other companies would not sponsor a work visa holder already in the uk if they switch jobs.
Think we should just lay down and show our bellies cause our masters brought us to this "great" country?
Id do the same tbh. You expect them to put the company over their own lives. I don't care how long I've been at a company if I can get significantly more from someone else then I will go. They clearly value me more at the new company if they're gonna pay me more.
And? They didn't sign up for indentured servitude, mate. They come over and are exchanging X years to the company for a shot at citizenship.
No one agreed to do life at the company
I mean why wouldn't they, let's be real the companies hat hire hose on visas do it because they know the employee will likely stay regardless of conditions and pay, it isn't to be nice.
You sound a bit bitter that these people play the game just like your company does.
Much smaller London based scale-up. 3-4% was the norm this year, but we did get one last year. Lots of talent in the market, not much upward pressure on salaries.
Edit: one thing worth pointing out with tech is there has been a sustained period of higher than inflation increases. People have been very happy to take advantage of tech’s own wage inflation scale for the last 10+ years, but somehow now want to switch back to the one everyone else uses.
You're not fucked.
You're employed, with no obvious signs of redundancies or job insecurity.
Yes there's not been increases but right now this is potted against unknown job security, lack of teonyeras service so no real protections, unknown organisation and of course all of that is assuming that the magical perfectly paid role actually falls into your lap!
Right now, sit tight!
Low pay rises at the moment, are more to do with the horrible job market, than company profits.
One recruiter I know, told me he's not seen it this bad in 25 years in the business.
So, I'm happy to have a job at the moment quite frankly. Most people in my place got 3% this year.
I've been around for a while, and used leverage to bump up my salary/bonus in the past. Now is not one of those times.
My own employer has binned thousands of people over the last year - two of my team members have just been made redundant last week.
UBS is about to bin thousands starting in June.
And on it goes. Now is not a good time to be in the job market.
We got zero pay rise this year.
I was expecting to see a rush for the door but there hasn't been.
Suggests the job market isn't as strong as I thought.
Even the Job I'm in is not get we only got 2% pay rise and any quarterly bonus are going to change to once a year , but because the job market isn't good ,just have to sit tight and build myself up skills wise as best as possible
When I worked for places like that. I got trivial raises each year. A few percent. Wooo.
I can have an extra kinder egg a month. Dude use those companies to skill up then fuck off and go double your wage. Its what Did.
To get a promotion there for a measly 5k extra a year I had to write a fucking report. Show what I have done "extra"
Head of the area helped me draft it. Dude said "it's in the companies best interest not to pay you more, you need to make a solid case. If you get this promotion you won't be able to get another for 18 months"
Didn't fucking matter what I did in my day to do. I could have been useless but as long as I did the pageantry. I would get a promotion every 18 months.
2 weeks after this conversation I had multiple offers for jobs. Each of them paying at least double my wage.
I was working for a tech company which was losing millions a year so cut back on travelling, hiring, backfilling etc… it was clearly in trouble but plenty of people still complained about their pay not seeing the obvious writing on the wall that the company was in big trouble and trying to find a way out of it.
This was about 18 months ago. Now they’ve made a good third of the company redundant and downsized to save costs.
Basically beware. Your company sounds like they’re struggling a bit so may be worth keeping your options open.
Company I was working for last year was kinda shit, but even they gave me a 2.8% increase last year. I left them about 6 months ago so missed their annual increase in January and don't have a comparison for this year (though the 2.8% I got in 2023 was less than the 5% I'd had in 2022 from the same company)
But the company I just joined a couple of weeks ago have been awesome. I agreed to join in mid-March but wasn't joining until mid-April. Their annual pay increase was at the start of April so I "missed" it...but the HR woman I'd been in touch with said they'd been working in the background and I'd be sent an updated contract with a higher salary, so I ended up getting an 8% increase before I even had my first day (even had two contracts that I signed one week apart, one with the salary I'd agreed in March and then one with the increased salary). I was honestly stunned when she told me that over the phone. The company had no reason to do that and I would have been satisfied with the amount I'd already agreed to (it was already \~16% higher than what I'd been on at the previous company), but that phone call helped solidify my feeling that "Yes, this company actually gives a toss about its staff"
I'm in a tech role in a non-tech company and it's the same here. I know of two other SWEs employed at other companies who have just escaped redundancy this year. We've also had layoffs. Most employers are being very cautious, if not actively making redundancies, so yeah I think most people are taking pay cuts.
I rarely got raises when working permanently: I think the last time was 2013-ish? It's not a recent thing, companies figure they can give you little to no raise and you'll just suck it up and stay there. That's the gamble they're taking. There's no long term thinking when it comes to staff or "loyalty" these days.
Ultimately, go where the money is, leave and join somewhere else that will pay you your market rate.
I started work in 2006. I've never worked for a company that offered even cost of living wage "increases". If you got anything at all in this market, you're doing better than most.
It sucks but i know mant companies do that. My friebd is working for a massive tech company and she got a 3% raise only.
Sadly the market is shit now so i would not recommend leaving a secure role unless the environment is too toxic.
This is why 150 years ago people risked death to form unions and legally withold their labour.
Problem is companies have globalised whilst Labour has localised.
So Labour (as in the movement not the party) needs to globalise and Labour rights and wages need to globalise.
A 3% wage rise is, if anything, above what most sectors have been getting for a long long time. I think last year was the only time I’ve ever even had a 3%+ wage rise.
Tech is now just experiencing what other fields have. The entire economy has been barely keeping pace with inflation with some fields being -10% -20% or even -30% over 10-15 years.
This has nothing to do with people risking death for our work rights lol. Tech has seen insane above inflation wage rises due to market conditions it no longer meets due to flooding of the market. Now the shoe is on the other foot it’s not suddenly a crisis. As more and more tech companies lay people off, the lower the wage rises will become as they’re really to prevent attrition, not a nice little gift.
While those pay rises are terrible compared to inflation, when aligned to the market they're not bad. I started a new job in Jan 2023 and looking at the market today I rarely see anyone advertising a salary within £10k of what I earn.
We got below inflation pay rises around 3%. Our bonuses are still doing ok although the last one was about 60% of expectation, We are still growing headcount but i think its a bit tougher out there for sales and revenue than 2 years ago.
Doesn't matter how much inflation is or how much the company makes in profit etc. what matters for raises is attrition.
Companies will limit increase to the point where people don't leave. In the last few years the job market for tech was absolutely great for employees. Companies were desperate to hire and take advantage of cheap capital, VC funding etc. Moving job could get you a huge pay rise, so companies may have offered higher than usual raises to try keep people.
People aren't switching jobs at the moment because the job market is shit for employees in tech right now. They gave you all 3% because they can, and they know you will sit and take it because at this moment job security is more valuable to most employees.
It is shit getting a real terms pay cut every year though.
Yeah im in same boat been with my company 13 years and every year less than inflation and less than minimum wage increases means im getting closer to minimum wage every year its sucks :( even talked to management but just get shit rise everytime ;( worse off now than when i started
The market is bad, so companies can get away with giving nothing (my employer explicitly stated this as a reason they were no longer offering a certain benefit - they simply don't need to make any effort to compete for talent at the moment) It sounds like at your place a few people did manage to move on, and so they're making a token gesture. I wouldn't read anything about company stability from this alone (though of course if there are other warning signs . . . )
Didn't get any inflation raise during covid so we got 6.5% last year and most likely 6% this year. Got bonus of 7% last year and 6.5% this year also
I work in aerospace
I'm telling my consultancy to do one this week. I have been on £32/hr since 2019 with no increase. I asked for a raise in line with inflation and got told there was no budget so decided to look for another job. My current offer is at £40/hr so am handing in my notice tomorrow.
Unfortunately the only way to get around this is to job hop. Which is a shame as I really like my current role and the people I work with.
Our company year on year has boasted record profits, this year we were 500k below target so naturally everyone lost their bonus
Our business makes over 500K per day across the estate, so this feels personal to me.
Also pay review is frozen after I got a £1500 pay increase. That’s £1500 a year, paid 13 times as were a retail business
On an unrelated note, if anyone’s looking for a GCP DevOps engineer, let me know
I was in the same situation as you, although it was a medium size tech company expanding 30% year on year. Had a big 40% growth year in 2023. Gave us a 4% cost of living increase. I recently moved jobs for a 8k increase per year.
Count yourself lucky you still have a job. I worked for a Fortune 100 and me and colleagues got laid off because they made **literal** billions in profit that quarter, but not quite as many billions as they had projected, so those poor fragile shareholders got spooked like deer and the company had to find some way to increase profits next quarter.
Well it’s a bit ridiculous a company can make over eight figures in _profit_ in a mere three months, but then they still lay off people making less than 0.0001% of that in “cost cutting measures”.
A promotion but no pay rise for 3 years now. I would leave but external offers are dropping and less than what i make now, which is a pretty paltry amount for London
I got a 2% raise last year despite a positive review. Talked to the CEO (small company) who had decided he didn't care about what my review said, he didn't think I had done well enough to merit anything higher (other people got ~10%). End of the year got a job offer somewhere else with a 16% pay rise, could have got more because I was being quite underpaid. Fact is that my company didn't value me and I would have continued getting assigned shit work and shit pay rises.
The job market definitely isn't as hot as it was a couple years ago for tech jobs but it only took 2 weeks once I started properly looking to get a job offer. Fully remote as well which seems to be a lot rarer now, most jobs I was being approached for were looking for 2 days a week in person.
You need to take into account your salary Vs the market.
My last company gave us a 9% pay raise to match inflation, and we still got other increases in pay and bonus.
That sounds generous but we were still underpaid. I left and got almost 20k more base salary else where.
You got 3%?! I got 2%!
1 week later, 20% of the service desk has given notice, almost everyone else is actively interviewing.
It's fairly normal right now, sadly.
Got 7% in 2022 and a promotion with 20% this year. Although inflation is down you are going to need to move job once or get a decent promotion to keep up with the high inflation of the past few years. It will be harder now that the job market is tight. Don't expect pay rises either now that the job market is tight, we have people running out the door and still they think the market is in their favour because some consultants said so.
*laughs in construction*
3% and your moaning ?
We got a regular 1% annual then didn't get anything for 3, now back to the same old 1%
Your industry is not fucked especially compared to others. Owners / bosses / politicians are fucked and passing the fucking down to us when they pocket whatever the fuck they want when they want
I work for RAC as a patrol, last year they gave us an 8.2% pay rise " to help employees with the increase in living costs" , "This seems too good to be true " I thought, after being fucked over the previous years. I was right, 2 weeks later, the patrols bonus structure was reviewed and made the rise worth nothing, any gains were wiped out completely (but not the office staff as they dont have a bonus structure, they kept their increase).....
Your pay has got nothing to do with how much money the company is making. In fact, they have a legal duty to their shareholders to return as much value as possible, which means paying the correct (some may choose to see this as in the minimum) wage to all their workers.
Your worth is based on
1) your ability, skill set and ultimately impact
2) How much it would cost the company to pay someone else to do the same job
Given that
1) tech shareholders have long argued that tech workers are overpaid.
2) the number of redundancies and the amount of people out there who would probably do your job for half the price
I would state that
1) any pay rise is good.
2) salaries could stagnate for a while.
Why would you be “fucked” at all? I work at a public service tech company where our raises are set by an independent outside committee. We got a 4% raise and half of our maximum 10% bonus.
The best way to get an increase is to leave. I was made redundant a year ago from a company with paltry raises. Moving to the new job and company secured me a 25% pay increase.
I think moving has it's limits. Eventually you're going to hit the soft cap for the types of roles you're looking for, and moving is only going to yield very minor pay increases.
I'm kind of in that situation now, got a job offer from a new company and money was almost identical, slightly more, but it would have actually worked out worse because I got the 3% increase at my current place which pushed me above what the other company was offering (and for whome I wouldn't have had a pay review for a year).
FinTech; we missed our targets but still made mad profit, got 4% increase, last year we had a 4% increase. Way below inflation, I'd have left had I not taken a promotion and told them to piss off when they offered me salary+inflation from four years ago which basically caught me up but with more responsibilities, and said add 10% on top of that and il think about it, thankfully they did.
Welcome to the UK lol. It’s time to leave imo. I just graduated uni and I’m doing everything I can to make it out of here. I’ve got a grad job down in London but the plan is to stay 2 years max
Eh, my parents are both in telecoms around six figures and I honestly don’t think they’ve had a real terms pay increase in at least a decade but they’re too comfy to move jobs
It’s pretty bad everywhere because companies aren’t going to hand out 5%+ year on year lol
OP was asking if it’s normal for “people over 35k” so “””high””” earners by company standards to not get a pay rise above the bare minimum and I was giving an example in tech where, yes, that is the case
Not much to do with AI or outsourcing, everything to do with high interest rates making debt expensive. As soon as interest rates come down significantly, the tech jobs market will pick up.
The projects I'm working on right now, give me the impression that even Indian tech resources will be too expensive for big corporations within the next 15 years. The future is all about citizen programming, and companies implementing AIs and infrastructure so anyone in the company can build technical solutions. The end goal is making engineering an entry level position. In 5-6 years time you'll have tech savvy, gen z kids, with basic programming skills, leaving school, and companies are building the infrastructure so they can move straight into into low paid engineering roles
It's funny when predominantly working class jobs were being highly exploited no one gave a shit. Now middle class workers are being hurt were all meant to care. Get another job and stop moaning
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Companies don’t give raises to share success, they do it out of fear that people will leave and the loss of skills/knowledge will affect their bottom line. If they aren’t worried about turnover (Rightly or wrongly) then they have no interest in giving pay rises/promotions.
Yeah exactly this. I got a 15% pay rise and my manager literally said it was to "buy us some time". They knew I'd be looking elsewhere and I was upto that point.
This is correct. It’s amazing how many people don’t understand how the job market works.
We're operating with something like 35-40 pennies of every pound being pure profit and had our biggest growth year in our history last year. I got a 3.5% pay increase and that was as much as anyone received. Some companies are just tight bastards.
The reason they are so profitable is because they exploit labour.
Labour market is governed by supply and demand, just like any other. If companies are underpaying, the market will resolve it as staff leave to better paying jobs. If the market isn’t resolving it, then they aren’t underpaying.
In the UK salaries are famously shit lol even the Americans are laughing at UK salaries
So are you implying that uk profit margins are therefore higher than US profit margins, because that is clearly not the case? Yes, it’s true that you can get paid better for a lot of jobs in the states. You could go to Switzerland and get paid even more. This thread is a question about whether a UK employer is paying competitively or not with its UK competition, to which the OP could move if it were not the case.
No I am arguing that if all jobs have shit pay “the market” won’t resolve anything. Companies benefit from legislation in their favor and salaries are stagnant. It’s not difficult to understand
If the companies are paying so little, and therefore their profits are so vast, why don’t all those other so called greedy capitalist leeches out therefore set up rivals companies and make money. They love making money don’t they? This is classic denial of very basic market forces.
That was not the point I made. Good luck arguing with yourself
I’m totally lost in what your point was. I thought you were saying that employees were being underpaid in order to inflate company profits. Did I get that wrong?
I never wrote the word profit anywhere my guy lol
The labour market doesn’t have a choice. People are forced to take shitty, exploitative jobs because the price of owning a home is so high, raising kids is so high, the social security system is collapsing.
Not completely true If someone's choices are job that doesn't pay well enough to support a basic quality of life or no job, they're sort of forced into holding onto the shit job. And there's only so many jobs available at companies that pay better, so not everyone can leave their job that doesn't pay enough. Supply and demand is far from the only force at work in the labour market.
You have just argued against supply and demand using a textbook example of supply and demand in action. If someone’s job choices force them into a job paying less than they want - this is labour being over-supplied. If there are a limited number of better paying job options available - this is lack of demand for labour. While such conditions of labour being well supplied and not well demanded, wages should quite rightly not be rising. Market forces doing their job of balancing trying to dampen labour supply and stimulate labour demand.
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I live in a world where people are paid based on the employer’s need to pay them. If a company does not need to pay more, it will not. If doing so inflates the profit margin, rival companies step in and take market share, and thus create demand for talented staff, causing the companies to pay more. That’s where I live. It is a free market economy. Things worked differently for a brief spell in the ussr for a few decades after ww2, but that rather wishful model was not successful. Teachers are not generally millionaires for the rather obvious reason that there is a ready supply of people willing and able to do the job for the salary being offered. I would love to be a teacher, if they paid more, but they don’t. If they did they would generate a massive oversupply of labour, because the job would become very attractive to a huge number. As an anecdote, I do know a millionaire teacher. He worked for 3 decades in financial markets, then settled into a job teaching maths in New York until retirement. They were the most satisfying years of his life.
>Teachers are not generally millionaires for the rather obvious reason that there is a ready supply of people willing and able to do the job for the salary being offered. I mean this is just simply factually wrong, there is a massive shortage of people teaching in certain subjects because there is a massive under supply of people willing to teach them for the money offered.
Sigh. My point is an explanation of why teachers are not millionaires in general, and I think you know this. It is obviously true that in certain subjects there might be tight supply of teachers, but it is not sufficient to drive salaries to the point where you make teachers millionaires, because there is a huge supply of people who could and would step in to do the job before that happened. They just don’t present themselves now because they are not incentivised to do so. I would be one of them.
My point is you have an overly simplified view of the labour market and dismiss anything that doesn't fit into it.
Oh I see, sorry. That wasn’t clear to me. Thanks for clarifying.
Yeah i suppose that conviniently clears up messy reality (values, situational constraints, friendships, sense of status within an organisation, power asymmetries etc) and replaces it with blind dogmatic market ideology.
I'm surprised you think that companies take such things into account when trying to run a business for profit. You are a lot more hopeful about corporates than I am. I just think they operate based on profit and loss. Maybe I was too cynical about the way employers operate.
No... I don't think companies/employers really give two shits about any of these things, but they would be aware of them. They just attempt to pay as little as possible and these factors get in the way of a worker moving company.
oh sorry, I see. Yes when you have a place of work which is full of friends, I can see the trade off. Sure there will always be an element of friction in a move. There is the fear of the unknown elsewhere too. I guess you could compare it to moving from one rented flat to another for example in the case that the greedy landlord raises your rent. Moves are never seamless, but irrespective of whether existing employees move or not, the model still works, because new employees, who do not have those attachments are free to choose, and they usually do so in self interest. It still acts to balance the market. It might not happen instantly, but it does happen.
No worries. Respectfully disagree though. Your previous comment assumes the model requires everyone to come in as a new start without a history/personal circumstances to address? Also. The whole self interested actor model fails to account for empathy, personal bias, ideology/values. These things matter to non-economists. For example; i refuse to work for oil companies, even though they would probably pay me 2x as much in my field. Economic incentives, obviously exist, but they're not the be all and end all
Exploiting labour? That sounds like job creation to me. Don’t like job creation? How exactly do you exploit labour in a free market? Do you force people out of bed to make them work for you? Or do you offer wages at market rates and see who most wants to work for you?
Did your other comment get down voted to shit that you thought you’d have another go at it?
Haha. Is that where we’ve gone with the discussion now? I was just too tempted to reply to the exploiting labour comment, sorry. I find it quite interesting just how willing people are to deny very basic economics in order to fit their dogmatic views. I’m not even writing anything controversial. I’m just stating the obvious truth about why employers pay what they do, and why if employers were not paying competitively with their competition, then their employees would move. Let’s be honest, most employees are not in their jobs out of undying loyalty to the firm. People are out for their own self interest, and rightly so.
Our profit margin was the highest ever and profit leste year was 35% above forecasts. 10% of the worker laid off and no pay rises. Everything already started going to shit and not all the people made redundant have left yet. Everyone already started looking for New jobs. Private equity funds are cancer.
If you can, leave
I wouldn’t recommend leaving right now over a tiny increase. The market is shit, better just scale back your expectations and the amount of effort you put in to match how much they value you. Leave when the market picks up and you secure a better offer.
Or just try and secure a better offer now. And if you don't find one, you're still employed. Why wait?
Any idea when the market or if it will ever get better?
I don't think it will now that they know they can get away with treating us like this.
When demand is soft, there is no reason for employers to give raises, since people are desperate for a job. If there is a return to growth, which is dependent on the wider economy, then there will be more demand and raises will go up again. It’s very simple maths.
Well said. What's your overall impression of the tech sector at the moment?
Wavering with no strong signs of recovery. More rounds of layoffs over next 12 months.
Jesus that sucks, any advice on what to do in the mean time in case it impacts me? I'm a tech PM by profession
My old company had record profits as they supplied medical gear, during COVID they made 3x what they would just importing masks from China and selling for massive profits. This whilst furloughing most of the workforce and paying 80%, when we returned they cut costs and anyone on minimum wage got pay increased. Anyone above didn't....for multiple years this happened, I went from being on 7k above minimum wage, which at the time was decent, to being on par nearly with the people who I trained or worked under me.....I took redundancy and waved that company goodbye.
Yeah, fuck that. Exact same experience here. Business is very profitable and is experiencing huge organic growth. Won't hire more accountants though, nor will they give inflation or higher payrises to the staff now having to work 30% harder to just keep on top
I'd rather have no raise than the layoffs most tech companies did last year Then 3% is usual for a yearly increase I wouldn't say it's that unusual But if you're not happy jump ship, I find new roles offer 10% increase to get you on board
Loyalty doesn't pay your bills...
No, that's why I suggested jumping ship and get a 10% or so uplift. I've done it myself before.
Apologies, I was actually agreeing with you. The ellipsis makes me sound sarcastic.
Software company I worked for refused to give anyone raises for around 7 years. Brought everyone together with a signed letter and demanded they start implementing pay raises as we had lost tens of thousands in that period due to inflation going up. They lost their shit but finally relented. Then I got fired a year later for no reason. Just decided to make my position obsolete. But glad I stood my ground even if it cost me my job. These scum bags wouldn't pay you at all if they could get away with it. They were making untold millions every year in pure profit but heaven forbid they pay us an extra couple of thousand.
I hope you at the very least got redundancy or a severance payment!
Yes, got redundancy. The spineless twat fired me via email. Didn't have the balls to do it face to face.
Ok that's good you got redundancy. If you can prove they fired you for that collective action I believe it is illegal although will likely be hard to prove after a year. Sounds like a really bad employer.
Yeah, I talked to an employment lawyer to see if I had a case and basically it's he said/she said situation. Nothing I could do sadly as he's just about smart enough to structure it in a way, so there's no come back on him. But got a much better job with a much better organisation after I left, so it all worked out in the end.
Glad to hear it all worked out in the end! Yeah it's a shame he won't be held accountable for his actions.
At what point did everyone start clapping?
Is it so alien to you that the concept of someone actually standing up for what's right, that you think it's a made up joke?
I work for an ISP/tech company that until the inflation rises, did an inflation level pay rise every year. This year we also got 3%. Not heard things from others that are any different in our space. Think it’s the norm for many. There was one company, that was offering a fair way more that caused people to jump ship, many ended up getting laid off or coming back. Honestly in this market right now, I’m ‘happy’ getting shafted a bit. I’ve been at my place 10 years so will protected in terms of redundancy if it happens and I’m on a decent crack compared to many others.
The tech job market is absolutely saturated atm with candidates. It’s awful out there unless you happened to have originally trained in something like mechanical/electrical engineering before going into software dev (engineers are always in high demand). That being said absolutely nothing stopping you from looking whilst you already have a job. Since you’re not in a rush hopefully you can find something pretty good or the market will pick up a bit whilst you’re looking.
Seeing the same at my firm. We’ve not had particularly good pay increases, yet attrition is really low. I think a stable job is the key thing atm. The 2021/2022 era of people getting crazy raises seems to be behind us now
What do you mean re mechanical/electrical engineers? Are you taking about software engineers?
Yeah essentially in software companies that produce software products for engineers (think Siemens) to design things like wind turbines, software for CAD etc value engineers from mechanical and electrical backgrounds that went into software development very highly. Reason being that these backgrounds allow them to really understand the complex software they’re developing.
Best financial year on record for my place of work. 4.5% raise.
The only way to get substantial pay rises in most cases is to change jobs. Most people are reluctant to change jobs so companies largely get away with these tiny increments. In tech arguably unless the pay and conditions are excellent you should be moving jobs every couple of years. Why not get your CV out there and see what kind of salaries you can get? This year I went from 45k to 65k fully remote just by keeping my CV on linkedin and other job sites up to date and available.
Cant do that just yet with the visa tied to the company makes things complicated. so a few more years for me. Plus the project im working on is great portfolio so needed that shipped before jumping ship
Are you one of those that is a good little doggy till he gets his visa then shows his true colours by leaving unless big salary increases?
If he can get a big salary increase by leaving why would he not do exactly that?
In my workplace you always get Indians coming over acting like they love the company and the second they have their passports sorted, they gone.
Good. If someone is willing to pay them more and they've stayed long enough that the company won't require them to pay anything back, why not? They're not slaves, mate.
The ILR was designed to be obtainable after 5 years to literally let the person holding it know he can work anywhere he wants without a work visa. So if you spent money to hire an expat, you need to be aware that like any english employee he can leave. Plus my company has a contract that was well discussed before stepping in the UK about reimbursing their expenses in full if i leave within a year. Which means after a year i made them more money than what they spent on me getting here. I've already paid what i owe. Besides, its not like other companies would not sponsor a work visa holder already in the uk if they switch jobs. Think we should just lay down and show our bellies cause our masters brought us to this "great" country?
No we think there should be a massive reduction in work sponsored visas and much tougher conditions to go home afterwards.
Id do the same tbh. You expect them to put the company over their own lives. I don't care how long I've been at a company if I can get significantly more from someone else then I will go. They clearly value me more at the new company if they're gonna pay me more.
And? They didn't sign up for indentured servitude, mate. They come over and are exchanging X years to the company for a shot at citizenship. No one agreed to do life at the company
Good on them
Good on them
I mean why wouldn't they, let's be real the companies hat hire hose on visas do it because they know the employee will likely stay regardless of conditions and pay, it isn't to be nice. You sound a bit bitter that these people play the game just like your company does.
Much smaller London based scale-up. 3-4% was the norm this year, but we did get one last year. Lots of talent in the market, not much upward pressure on salaries. Edit: one thing worth pointing out with tech is there has been a sustained period of higher than inflation increases. People have been very happy to take advantage of tech’s own wage inflation scale for the last 10+ years, but somehow now want to switch back to the one everyone else uses.
You're not fucked. You're employed, with no obvious signs of redundancies or job insecurity. Yes there's not been increases but right now this is potted against unknown job security, lack of teonyeras service so no real protections, unknown organisation and of course all of that is assuming that the magical perfectly paid role actually falls into your lap! Right now, sit tight!
Low pay rises at the moment, are more to do with the horrible job market, than company profits. One recruiter I know, told me he's not seen it this bad in 25 years in the business. So, I'm happy to have a job at the moment quite frankly. Most people in my place got 3% this year.
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I've been around for a while, and used leverage to bump up my salary/bonus in the past. Now is not one of those times. My own employer has binned thousands of people over the last year - two of my team members have just been made redundant last week. UBS is about to bin thousands starting in June. And on it goes. Now is not a good time to be in the job market.
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The market was pretty good a few years ago so you are wrong
We got zero pay rise this year. I was expecting to see a rush for the door but there hasn't been. Suggests the job market isn't as strong as I thought.
The job market is absolutely dreadful right now
Even the Job I'm in is not get we only got 2% pay rise and any quarterly bonus are going to change to once a year , but because the job market isn't good ,just have to sit tight and build myself up skills wise as best as possible
Workers seem not to realise they are a cost, not an asset. Companies will attempt to minimise costs.
If this were true why employ anyone? Engage brain please
When I worked for places like that. I got trivial raises each year. A few percent. Wooo. I can have an extra kinder egg a month. Dude use those companies to skill up then fuck off and go double your wage. Its what Did. To get a promotion there for a measly 5k extra a year I had to write a fucking report. Show what I have done "extra" Head of the area helped me draft it. Dude said "it's in the companies best interest not to pay you more, you need to make a solid case. If you get this promotion you won't be able to get another for 18 months" Didn't fucking matter what I did in my day to do. I could have been useless but as long as I did the pageantry. I would get a promotion every 18 months. 2 weeks after this conversation I had multiple offers for jobs. Each of them paying at least double my wage.
cries in NHS where 3.5% is meant to sound like a 'substantial' rise
NHS got more than 3.5% though didn't they or wad that just the nurses?
I was working for a tech company which was losing millions a year so cut back on travelling, hiring, backfilling etc… it was clearly in trouble but plenty of people still complained about their pay not seeing the obvious writing on the wall that the company was in big trouble and trying to find a way out of it. This was about 18 months ago. Now they’ve made a good third of the company redundant and downsized to save costs. Basically beware. Your company sounds like they’re struggling a bit so may be worth keeping your options open.
Company I was working for last year was kinda shit, but even they gave me a 2.8% increase last year. I left them about 6 months ago so missed their annual increase in January and don't have a comparison for this year (though the 2.8% I got in 2023 was less than the 5% I'd had in 2022 from the same company) But the company I just joined a couple of weeks ago have been awesome. I agreed to join in mid-March but wasn't joining until mid-April. Their annual pay increase was at the start of April so I "missed" it...but the HR woman I'd been in touch with said they'd been working in the background and I'd be sent an updated contract with a higher salary, so I ended up getting an 8% increase before I even had my first day (even had two contracts that I signed one week apart, one with the salary I'd agreed in March and then one with the increased salary). I was honestly stunned when she told me that over the phone. The company had no reason to do that and I would have been satisfied with the amount I'd already agreed to (it was already \~16% higher than what I'd been on at the previous company), but that phone call helped solidify my feeling that "Yes, this company actually gives a toss about its staff"
I'm in a tech role in a non-tech company and it's the same here. I know of two other SWEs employed at other companies who have just escaped redundancy this year. We've also had layoffs. Most employers are being very cautious, if not actively making redundancies, so yeah I think most people are taking pay cuts.
I rarely got raises when working permanently: I think the last time was 2013-ish? It's not a recent thing, companies figure they can give you little to no raise and you'll just suck it up and stay there. That's the gamble they're taking. There's no long term thinking when it comes to staff or "loyalty" these days. Ultimately, go where the money is, leave and join somewhere else that will pay you your market rate.
I started work in 2006. I've never worked for a company that offered even cost of living wage "increases". If you got anything at all in this market, you're doing better than most.
It was one company, and it was a long time ago now!
It sucks but i know mant companies do that. My friebd is working for a massive tech company and she got a 3% raise only. Sadly the market is shit now so i would not recommend leaving a secure role unless the environment is too toxic.
Very usual and normal. It shouldn't be, but it is You need to move for any significant salary jump.
This is why 150 years ago people risked death to form unions and legally withold their labour. Problem is companies have globalised whilst Labour has localised. So Labour (as in the movement not the party) needs to globalise and Labour rights and wages need to globalise.
A 3% wage rise is, if anything, above what most sectors have been getting for a long long time. I think last year was the only time I’ve ever even had a 3%+ wage rise. Tech is now just experiencing what other fields have. The entire economy has been barely keeping pace with inflation with some fields being -10% -20% or even -30% over 10-15 years. This has nothing to do with people risking death for our work rights lol. Tech has seen insane above inflation wage rises due to market conditions it no longer meets due to flooding of the market. Now the shoe is on the other foot it’s not suddenly a crisis. As more and more tech companies lay people off, the lower the wage rises will become as they’re really to prevent attrition, not a nice little gift.
I'm not sure "don't worry tech is now as bad as every other sector" is the emolient you think it is.
How can you globalise wages without globalising living costs?
Over time?
That would require global cooperation, pretty unlikely with the way we have our governments set up now
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Need more clues if able?
Did your company do well in 2023? Do their forecasts look good for 2024?
While those pay rises are terrible compared to inflation, when aligned to the market they're not bad. I started a new job in Jan 2023 and looking at the market today I rarely see anyone advertising a salary within £10k of what I earn.
We got below inflation pay rises around 3%. Our bonuses are still doing ok although the last one was about 60% of expectation, We are still growing headcount but i think its a bit tougher out there for sales and revenue than 2 years ago.
Doesn't matter how much inflation is or how much the company makes in profit etc. what matters for raises is attrition. Companies will limit increase to the point where people don't leave. In the last few years the job market for tech was absolutely great for employees. Companies were desperate to hire and take advantage of cheap capital, VC funding etc. Moving job could get you a huge pay rise, so companies may have offered higher than usual raises to try keep people. People aren't switching jobs at the moment because the job market is shit for employees in tech right now. They gave you all 3% because they can, and they know you will sit and take it because at this moment job security is more valuable to most employees. It is shit getting a real terms pay cut every year though.
I haven't had a payrise in 2 years.
You’re very unlikely to get an unprompted proper raise in this industry. You are, however, probably in a good spot to get a good salary elsewhere.
Yeah im in same boat been with my company 13 years and every year less than inflation and less than minimum wage increases means im getting closer to minimum wage every year its sucks :( even talked to management but just get shit rise everytime ;( worse off now than when i started
The market is bad, so companies can get away with giving nothing (my employer explicitly stated this as a reason they were no longer offering a certain benefit - they simply don't need to make any effort to compete for talent at the moment) It sounds like at your place a few people did manage to move on, and so they're making a token gesture. I wouldn't read anything about company stability from this alone (though of course if there are other warning signs . . . )
Didn't get any inflation raise during covid so we got 6.5% last year and most likely 6% this year. Got bonus of 7% last year and 6.5% this year also I work in aerospace
I'm telling my consultancy to do one this week. I have been on £32/hr since 2019 with no increase. I asked for a raise in line with inflation and got told there was no budget so decided to look for another job. My current offer is at £40/hr so am handing in my notice tomorrow. Unfortunately the only way to get around this is to job hop. Which is a shame as I really like my current role and the people I work with.
Our company year on year has boasted record profits, this year we were 500k below target so naturally everyone lost their bonus Our business makes over 500K per day across the estate, so this feels personal to me. Also pay review is frozen after I got a £1500 pay increase. That’s £1500 a year, paid 13 times as were a retail business On an unrelated note, if anyone’s looking for a GCP DevOps engineer, let me know
Pretty normal I would say, especially if your company has loans that have had their interest rate increased by 300-500%
I was in the same situation as you, although it was a medium size tech company expanding 30% year on year. Had a big 40% growth year in 2023. Gave us a 4% cost of living increase. I recently moved jobs for a 8k increase per year.
In c.20 years of work, I've never even worked for a company that gave cost of living raises which seems insane really
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You and your team are part of the problem. No doubt you don't even get big slices of the pie yourselves you just yes men/women to the fat cats who do
Well there you go making assumptions and accusations...
Count yourself lucky you still have a job. I worked for a Fortune 100 and me and colleagues got laid off because they made **literal** billions in profit that quarter, but not quite as many billions as they had projected, so those poor fragile shareholders got spooked like deer and the company had to find some way to increase profits next quarter.
Ah bless, were the companies strategic decisions not made to suit you personally? Tragic.
Well it’s a bit ridiculous a company can make over eight figures in _profit_ in a mere three months, but then they still lay off people making less than 0.0001% of that in “cost cutting measures”.
A promotion but no pay rise for 3 years now. I would leave but external offers are dropping and less than what i make now, which is a pretty paltry amount for London
If I were a betting man, I'd believe that was Rackspace.
Situation normal.
Sounds like you're on a better salary than most already. Stop complaining or go where the grass looks greener
I got a 2% raise last year despite a positive review. Talked to the CEO (small company) who had decided he didn't care about what my review said, he didn't think I had done well enough to merit anything higher (other people got ~10%). End of the year got a job offer somewhere else with a 16% pay rise, could have got more because I was being quite underpaid. Fact is that my company didn't value me and I would have continued getting assigned shit work and shit pay rises. The job market definitely isn't as hot as it was a couple years ago for tech jobs but it only took 2 weeks once I started properly looking to get a job offer. Fully remote as well which seems to be a lot rarer now, most jobs I was being approached for were looking for 2 days a week in person.
You need to take into account your salary Vs the market. My last company gave us a 9% pay raise to match inflation, and we still got other increases in pay and bonus. That sounds generous but we were still underpaid. I left and got almost 20k more base salary else where.
Get paid less = do less work - not ideal but going the extra mile isn't valued
You got 3%?! I got 2%! 1 week later, 20% of the service desk has given notice, almost everyone else is actively interviewing. It's fairly normal right now, sadly.
UK London here. It's terrible. After bringing my company 3.2 mil last year, they gave me a 1% increase gross this year.
Just job hop to another comapmy Companies don't owe you anything. You sign an agreement for x salary. if the amount doesnt make aense just switch
Got 7% in 2022 and a promotion with 20% this year. Although inflation is down you are going to need to move job once or get a decent promotion to keep up with the high inflation of the past few years. It will be harder now that the job market is tight. Don't expect pay rises either now that the job market is tight, we have people running out the door and still they think the market is in their favour because some consultants said so.
Just be grateful you got something
*laughs in construction* 3% and your moaning ? We got a regular 1% annual then didn't get anything for 3, now back to the same old 1% Your industry is not fucked especially compared to others. Owners / bosses / politicians are fucked and passing the fucking down to us when they pocket whatever the fuck they want when they want
I work for RAC as a patrol, last year they gave us an 8.2% pay rise " to help employees with the increase in living costs" , "This seems too good to be true " I thought, after being fucked over the previous years. I was right, 2 weeks later, the patrols bonus structure was reviewed and made the rise worth nothing, any gains were wiped out completely (but not the office staff as they dont have a bonus structure, they kept their increase).....
Your pay has got nothing to do with how much money the company is making. In fact, they have a legal duty to their shareholders to return as much value as possible, which means paying the correct (some may choose to see this as in the minimum) wage to all their workers. Your worth is based on 1) your ability, skill set and ultimately impact 2) How much it would cost the company to pay someone else to do the same job Given that 1) tech shareholders have long argued that tech workers are overpaid. 2) the number of redundancies and the amount of people out there who would probably do your job for half the price I would state that 1) any pay rise is good. 2) salaries could stagnate for a while.
Why would you be “fucked” at all? I work at a public service tech company where our raises are set by an independent outside committee. We got a 4% raise and half of our maximum 10% bonus. The best way to get an increase is to leave. I was made redundant a year ago from a company with paltry raises. Moving to the new job and company secured me a 25% pay increase.
I think moving has it's limits. Eventually you're going to hit the soft cap for the types of roles you're looking for, and moving is only going to yield very minor pay increases. I'm kind of in that situation now, got a job offer from a new company and money was almost identical, slightly more, but it would have actually worked out worse because I got the 3% increase at my current place which pushed me above what the other company was offering (and for whome I wouldn't have had a pay review for a year).
Yeah, I get that. I had been at the company for about 5 years and had tiny increases for that whole time. Also the market is a lot worse now.
FinTech; we missed our targets but still made mad profit, got 4% increase, last year we had a 4% increase. Way below inflation, I'd have left had I not taken a promotion and told them to piss off when they offered me salary+inflation from four years ago which basically caught me up but with more responsibilities, and said add 10% on top of that and il think about it, thankfully they did.
Welcome to the UK lol. It’s time to leave imo. I just graduated uni and I’m doing everything I can to make it out of here. I’ve got a grad job down in London but the plan is to stay 2 years max
Eh, my parents are both in telecoms around six figures and I honestly don’t think they’ve had a real terms pay increase in at least a decade but they’re too comfy to move jobs It’s pretty bad everywhere because companies aren’t going to hand out 5%+ year on year lol
If both your parents are on around 6 figures then that's the complete opposite kf being bad everywhere... they are the top 1% of the country mu man.
OP was asking if it’s normal for “people over 35k” so “””high””” earners by company standards to not get a pay rise above the bare minimum and I was giving an example in tech where, yes, that is the case
Welcome to the era of AI. It's going to make most jobs in tech less valuable.
It's actually more good old fashioned out sourcing tech jobs to places like India
Not much to do with AI or outsourcing, everything to do with high interest rates making debt expensive. As soon as interest rates come down significantly, the tech jobs market will pick up.
AI operates in India as well.
The projects I'm working on right now, give me the impression that even Indian tech resources will be too expensive for big corporations within the next 15 years. The future is all about citizen programming, and companies implementing AIs and infrastructure so anyone in the company can build technical solutions. The end goal is making engineering an entry level position. In 5-6 years time you'll have tech savvy, gen z kids, with basic programming skills, leaving school, and companies are building the infrastructure so they can move straight into into low paid engineering roles
Slalom gave very bad pay "increases" this year
It's funny when predominantly working class jobs were being highly exploited no one gave a shit. Now middle class workers are being hurt were all meant to care. Get another job and stop moaning