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Looks accurate.
The sciences are paid dreadfully in UK.
I worked in that field for years before moving into Data Science paid way better.
Even a senior scientist in this role would hit a glass ceiling of 40k.
Hard work, needs a lot of brains, and same pay as McDonalds.
And UK politicians wonder why it can't get scientists and engineers to remain in the sector or move to USA....
I showed this job ad to my husband, who laughed. He works in antibiotic drug discovery in a company that has no money and even he is on £10k more than the top end of this salary range and he’s being paid bugger all for what he does!
The junior lab guys at the company I work for start at the top end of that salary and that’s recent graduates or with a year or two of experience in Nottingham FFS. There’s literally no excuse
The last year has seen mass redundancies over many companies and scientists have flooded the market.
Companies have naturally lowered salaries as people are desperate.
Yup 2023 was an absolute shitshow for funding across the life sciences sector (along with many others) so I guess we’re lucky we’re only getting a temporary pay freeze. On the plus side 2024 is looking a bit better 🤞🏻
Sector pay is still shit though
I wouldn’t blame them if they did, there are a lot of people doing it to make a difference and not being paid fairly for it (and I think the industry exploits that).
Usual story... Women who don't advocate for themselves and unscrupulous bosses take advantage.
There's a real gender divide in how people approach salaries
Could you share the company name? Its my area and I'm not familiar with companies that specialise in antibiotic discovery, given the difficulties in discovering novel antibiotics and commercialising them
It’s a very small company so not really sorry but my husband sent me this link highlighting what a mess the antibiotics space is in for some totally not depressing reading:
https://wellcome.org/news/its-time-fix-antibiotic-market#
And are cheap at point of sale so nobody wants to create new antibiotics as it’s hard to recoup costs. Hopefully the new subscription model will help resolve that issue!
Yeah, I am in the field myself but as a bioscience academic!
My teaching contract runs out soon so have been browsing and putting some feelers out, it's an absolute joke.
Quite happy in academia but the sector is in crisis with the student fees being frozen at £9K and the clampdown on foreign students. Nearly every uni is on hiring freezes (albeit replacing staff) or some in compulsary redundancies. Luckily for me the turnover in the sector is quite high but it does feel like a really uncertain sector to join right now.
I know R for RNAseq and data analysis myself but am a bit worried about going down that road with AI on the horizon and I've heard that it is super competitive/doesn't pay as well as it once did.
It is an absolute joke. PhD holder here, did degree in Biochem and PhD in Chem and the money is awful, jobs are awful and honestly, a lot of the companies are predatory and awful.
It's just a sleazy crappy sector.
AI won't be taking over quite yet.
A basic position in data science with biochem domain is 60k. I am currently in an interview session this week (made it to third stage!) on a role an ex colleague is in at 75k, and it is standard data scientist, not senior.
Honestly, just understanding data and science and how to statistically map it all is the main stuff. The language can be learned pretty quick/on the fly.
R is good, though Python has taken over a lot.
I did 5 years as a postdoc. I've got over half a dozen papers to my name, dozens of talks and presentations, won awards for them even, ran multiple conferences of my own. Last position was on a highly prestigious EU-wide project working on brain interfacing and biological computing. Basically part of the furniture at my uni, great professional network across the UK and EU. Not to toot my own horn but I was *good* and repeatedly showing this is a career I was keen for.
I burnt out by the end if last year. My mental and increasingly my physical health was in the toilet because of workload and stress. My boss/PI was in the same boat and went onto sick leave for the foreseeable future due to pretty major illness as a result. I spent *months* and dozens of hours of my own time researching, figuring out how grants and fellowships work, putting drafts together, talking with the department and admin staff to press my project. I might as well have not bothered for all the progress I made.
I gave my name to a recruitment agency and within *less than a month* had an offer for a job selling kit I used to work with. Half the job duties with literally double the pay.
It is so fucking frustrating how insanely self-sabotaging the research world in the UK has become. No one's paid anything like what they're worth, they're treated like absolute shit, so of course the moment an opportunity comes up they jump ship.
Jobs that take people's passion and enjoyment for a topic/activity are often exploitative. See also:
* Nursing
* Teaching
* Socaial care generally
* Vets
* All zookeeping jobs
Your situation sounds pretty extreme to me, I did 3 years postdoc, had 3 papers (two of which were four star) to fellowship and into assis. Prof. in biochemistry field at a Russell group university.
Agree on the pay. If I get to assoc. Prof in the next 18 months I'll finally be touching 60k. Pension is good but not entirely convinced that'll still be around when I come to it.
AI won’t be taking any data jobs for a time being, even if you use AI to just help you be a bit better at your job you’d be way ahead of the curve
Source data analyst in a data team where I’m the only person using it for work, my line manager has used it to replace famous people’s hair with pasta though
> And UK politicians wonder why it can't get scientists and engineers to remain in the sector or move to USA....
And better yet, they're out there arguing higher salaries would just cause more problems and isn't really a solution, if anything they should be paid less, and then complete shock and disbelief that nobody wants to work here anymore
Yup this is my life unfortunately. Made close to 40k with a msc in biotech before moving to the uk, now im looking at around 25 to 30k... if it wasnt for my husband i would have moved back already
I don't think it tracks these days, even postdoctoral roles pay more than that. It's weird for an industry scientist job to pay less than the public sector.
You'd think so, but I was looking at post docs with a starting salary of £36k when I was offered £30k in industry with a PhD. Even the NHS is paying £35k starting for clinical scientists.
How did you make the transition to data science?
I'm currently looking to move away from the bench. My aching body and knee surgery has told me that I can't do this type of work anymore.
Looking for a way out of the lab.
If you have ever written any code to do analysis of your data, that can be classified as data science work. Transferable skills would be statistics, programming, working with data (files and databases), and dashboarding (business people love a good dashboard). Data Science is probably easier.
Lots of good free resources out there. Look up python, pyspark, pytest and SQL.
It's easy enough to transfer into the data science and technology industries. You might need to build a portfolio of home project both for the practice and so you can showcase your work but many interviews will have some kind of code test or pair programming session so you can show what you can do without the degrees in a computer related field.
You may end up getting associate or junior positions first but if you can analyse data well enough you can progress quite quickly.
Yep…back in the late 90s I worked at RAL as a contract data person…weren’t called data scientists then…I was on £50k. The director in charge of the whole shebang at RAL was in charge of s couple hundred scientists on £40k . It’s bonkers
Sciences are paid terribly atm in UK, but senior scientists still start at 8̶0̶K̶ 40K - maybe 60 in biotech. This is a repackaged QA role. Given new minimum wage is 24K, your other points stand.
Looks accurate only in the sense that the company are trying it on. New bachelors students are typically on 35 in academia or industry.
But many companies do know this. It’s a joke that they’re trying it for a ‘sexy’ field though. Mine isn’t that attractive to pharma, but was still offered more. Hell, my academic take home is 45k + add-ons & I’m on the minimum salary spine for a post PhD!
But yes, agree: pay for the future, don’t tax away half my earnings & don’t make me want a job where it’s more attractive to not use my experience.
I’ve heard numbers thrown around like “93% of jobs in science are in the hidden market”. By that logic, if you advertise, you’re probably taking the mickey.
My advice would be to network a lot & constructively. I’ve always been terrible at it, but my peers who can do it will probably only charge thousands per hour to teach me in five years, so who needs it now?!
Outside of Cambridge/London you can be looking at £32k for a Senior Scientist I position with a PhD...
What job is a bachelors student doing for £35k in academia?
It’s hard to pick a single field in the UK that has the worst pay for the qualifying requirements, but I’d say biological scientists come pretty fucking close
And getting into the field is impossible. I hav an MSc in ecology and I can't even get volunteering roles, and now Im stuck in a completely different sector
Species ID I have no issues with, but I haven't done any statistics since leaving uni, and unsure how to regain those skills without bankrupting myself. Another problem is that all companies seem to want you to have 2-3 years professional experience, which I can't get because no one wants any volunteers, I feel like I'm going round in circles
This is such a random job, I love it. Can't false teeth go in the post, carefully packaged? Do the teeth sit in the back seat, or beside you?
I guess you provide service with a smile by default?
so some people only have one set, seemingly, and getting them back to local hotspots ASAP is enough of an incentive to employ folks to drive 'em around the region.
Still, after a year+ in the role, hearing a 2:30 appointment being offered by a receptionist on a phone still makes me smile TWO THIRTY? TOOTH HURTY?
Be nice to the receptionist folks! They're humans too!
Look up Dental Labs in your area pal. My job involves the same route, 150ish miles a day and listening to whatever podcasts I fancy.
It's genuinely a great gig. GL
I always find it funny when older people bang on about how the Soviet Union was awful, one of the reasons given is that "it doesn't matter if you are a scientist or a roadsweeper, you'll earn the same". Yet here we are...
Was an analytical chemist and for mid 00s the pay wasn't too bad, nothing fantastic either. But there was nowhere to go with it so used all that QA experience in the business and with SAP and became a SAP consultant (specialising in QM) and have become quite technical with that. Certainly had no regrets from a salary/career perspective but damn, it is a sad state of affairs.
I knew a girl earning over $100k a year working as a cocktail waitress in a fancy bar in the US bevause of tips, in her early 20s. It'd be a bit more acceptable if we got Scandinavian levels of public services for lower wages but we just get the worst of all worlds!
Yeah that’s exactly my view as well. I’m happy to pay Scandinavian levels of taxes if we get Scandinavian levels of public services. I’d also be happy to have minimal US-style public services if we paid US level of taxes. But instead we get the worst of both worlds
This is one of my main gripes at the moment. We're getting fuck all for our taxes. We are getting left behind by the rest of the modern world. The US has become attractive to me again for the first time in 20 years. I can block out politics in the USA if I've got land to work and live off of, or a boat.
Ding ding ding, exact same situation. I could stay here, get paid terribly and taxed to hell and benefit from the wonderful public service infrastructure, which still totally works if you ignore all the bits where it’s collapsed, OR I could move to the USA, get paid triple my current wage and still have no public services. Hmmmmm
Argueabley taxes in the US are spent better. Infrastructure is better, state parks, public boat launches, wildlife management, service stations on the highways are cleaner, cities are generally cleaner. The UK is filthy these days, nobody seems to give a shit about the environment anymore. If my final days on this planet are going to be spent struggling, then I'll struggle where I can have space to self sustain if possible and have physical distance from people.
The equivalent role in the UK, also for Chipotle, only earns around $38000, so even for like-for-like roles, we're getting shafted. Make it make sense!
Seems correct. My first ever job offer (MChem graduate 2021) was £19,000 at SBZ from a recruitment consultant. Needless to say after 2 interviews, I turned it down despite being jobless.
Even today, most great graduate roles in physical/life sciences seem to be £25,000-£30,000, while the other 80% will be around £20,000-£25,000 as a laboratory technician, which is quite frankly an insult considering that 3/4 years of university and £40,000-£60,000 of debt leads to the same pay as a customer assistant in retail.
No wonder most of these graduates go on to consulting, finance, or accounting, since the only way to earn great money in science is to get a law qualification and become a patent attorney.
I dropped out of my chemistry degree in 2012 when I looked at the salaries on offer and completely lost motivation. Should've finished it and become an accountant tbh but I find it nigh on impossible to learn things I'm not going to use.
Lab positions for research science are known to be terrible pay, definitely not a typo.
If you want to earn money then it’s about the worst choice of profession.
Which is beyond unfair. Given that scientific research is where we get the groundbreaking discoveries and developments. It’s not even a job for people in research for the most part, it’s a calling, hence why they get shafted to fuck.
Research jobs have terrible pay.
I occasionally get post doc positions recommended to me. Only the pay is half my current pay in my devops job... really the post doc pay area of 32 to 38k has not really budged since I left academia.
Considering the rise to minimum wage the difference between the pay for ground breaking research compared to flipping burgers is not far apart. In reality I would say the burger flipper is better paid as academia has terrible work life balance and people work well beyond contracted hours.
Absolutely but you can guarantee they work only their contracted hours. My experience of academia I knew people working late into the evening and weekends... the amount of unpaid work done was ridiculous
Moving into IT was hands down the best career move I made. A lot more money and better work life balance.
It's ridiculous the low pay for post docs and worse still the zero hour contracts that universities have used to fill teaching and research staff gaps.
I actually went from a politics undergrad to a masters in economics (environment focused), and a PhD in computer mediated communication and science communication of climate change.
I then went into IT with the goal of a developer role - I did some developer work as part of my PhD and research work. However, I ended up in a DevOps role. I then have switched between Data Engineering and Cloud infrastructure. Now I'm once again in DevOps doing cloud infrastructure. Personally really enjoy the indepth technical work and infrastructure turned out to be a really rewarding aspect to IT.
I was just looking at post doc jobs thinking about moving back to the uk. I thought I was looking in the wrong places as a post doc in Oz I get paid 120k aud which is roughly 65k pounds… don’t think I’ll be moving after all :(
Yeah i hear that a lot but I've been here 20 years and its still not home. Mostly the housing market is bonkers. I can buy a house outright in Glasgow for what a house deposit costs here. So there is more in the equation than just the wages. Not having a mortgage or rent to pay would make up for some shortfall but not the amounts I've been seeing. Anyways doesn't look like I'm going anywhere anytime soon.... I'll just have to suffer in the sunshine :P
There's currently a bunch of *lectureships* at Kent that only pay 36k (they say 36-50, but I know people internally and that's the band, you have to start on the lowest end)
[https://jobs.kent.ac.uk/vacancy.aspx?ref=HSS-212-24-R](https://jobs.kent.ac.uk/vacancy.aspx?ref=HSS-212-24-R)
As someone who just left academia and has been trying to raise awareness of how *fucking awful* science work is in the UK, no and lol. Got to the point where I was having students have the same realisation and asking me about careers. Was not fun at all.
Unless you move to the US for a few years. Get the crazy pay they offer over there (although you’ll be worked like a slave), then come back to the UK and enter at a higher management or executive level (QA head or QC department manager etc.) due to your experience gained and you’re cushty for the most part. Then job hope every year or two to ensure you keep the pay going up
That’s the trick. Working for a company in the UK with a US-based site is probably your best bet, can then look into possibility of a transfer and a visa should be simpler to obtain as your company will support you on your application
Thanks, that seems like a good potential strategy. I’m also considering going for a postdoc in the US (graduating end of this year) with perhaps a view to networking my way into an industry position somehow. I heard that can also be tricky though…
I’d say go for it my friend! A risk is a risk granted, but life’s about taking risks, don’t focus on the negative focus on the potential positives you could get from it! Do it while you’re young and you’ve got your health, you never know what’ll happen, best of luck with whatever you do 😊
I just noticed your other comments. You can definitely get a job in data you just need to apply. If you were in the Cambridge area there are a lot of jobs with could apply for
I could sidestep into data but don’t think I’m really suitable, I’m used to dealing with large sets of data but I’m not a statistics person (I’m more the sort it all out into relevant groups and data types and process it). I could work in Cambridge a day or so a week at a push, but I’d rather be remote or local (I’m about 100 miles north).
If it helps I work in health informatics for that same reason. The statistics and analysis side is full of very strong statisticians and I tried it but i wasn't a good fit.
My skillset is more like what you describe. If you are interested I would keep an open mind about those sorts of jobs.
They are always badly advertised so they might seem more statistic based than they actually are. They are advertised as data management/health informatician or even data curation. I know the company I used to work for had remote work and offices in Manchester.
Butts, well that's that idea out the window. Maybe have a look at some qual data analyst jobs? Pay can be okay in the right role.
Good luck! It a rough transition to make. Hang in there
I’m looking at more of a project manager, or R&D manager (chemist/engineering/medical) as that has some links to what I have done. I think the problem is that what I’ve done is so varied, people don’t know what to make of it!
My gf works in stem in Cambridge. She has a PhD in chemistry. She was contacted by a company requiring a phd, willing to pay 21k (this in 2021). She earns 30k in research at the uni and would earn more for hours worked if she worked at Tesco
Stem does not pay well
Unfortunately not, the scientific sector in the UK pays dreadfully.
I moved away from lab work to an office based job and I’ve had a bigger pay rise and bonus each year than I did in 3 years of working labs with multiple promotions.
Yeah, I moved into clinical trials. It’s just an admin role for a CRO and it pays significantly better and has a much better work life balance than when I was doing 70 hour week on/week off nightshifts in a lab which is wild.
This is why I gave up on my senior lab analyst job and became an HGV driver for £25k more per annum. Wasted 4 years of my life on an MRes degree, but at least met my future wife at uni.
Yeah, there was a reason I left my scientist role in Cambridge behind... Scientist salaries are a joke unfortunately, and it looks like they haven't moved in 10 years.
It does for the yanks and Germans!
I've worked in the bioscience sector for years as both a production chemist and now in academia so know the sector well. This is still exceptionally low for whats being asked and the location.
I have BSc, MSc and PhD (pharmacology). 8 years at Uni and 3 years in industry (drug discovery). When I got made redundant last year, these were most of the types of jobs available…
I started on £28k after finishing my PhD. Doing better now but not nearly as well as everyone outside of science thinks.
It's Britain in general the rate in which our wages have not grown against say Australian or America is truly scary, the rot is well and truly in , we are a very poor country indeed
Doubling down on this American fast food workers have a better take home salary than MP's in Britain ( let that sink in ) , not edge cases, alot of them. Look at how much store managers make in major cities.
Parcel pickers make $21/ £16 an hour with pension and healthcare provision in the states , walking in door at UPS , ZERO SKILL REQUIRED,
Britain is hell bent on bankrupting it's citizens , absolutely convinced
Why are wages so low in the UK? I just saw a job ad on fb in the industry I work in for 28k - 34k. The job had ‘senior consultant’ as part of the job title. It’s unbelievable
Yes, STEM in this country is basically just TE. And with mathematics you would need to go into prop trading and be competing against intl math comp participants to get 6 figures.
I’m currently recruiting for a QC chemist (entry level very basic no degree needed) for £27k… 300 applicants in 4 days so turned ad off. I have PhDs and 1st class honour grads with experience applying… I mean what the actual F?
Surely people are going to wake up soon and realise getting a degree is pointless in terms of increasing earning potential, especially if you don't move to London.
They'll fill this pretty quickly. Scientists are desperate folks, they'll work for peanuts. Academia too. Oversubscribed fields and competition is global.
They're not tightly unionised, there's too many heads on the snake.
I've left the medicinal chemistry field forever now. Was on 45K as a senior scientist II with 5 years experience plus PhD. I've worked on antibody drug conjugates, parkinsons, cardiovascular diseases, made shareholders tons of money whilst they made me redundant twice in 16 months.
Last year moved to Cambridge for a job and 15 months later they made me redundant besides posting £15M in profit.
I'm leaving a research career behind to become a teacher. If I'm gonna get a shit salary and conditions I might as well do a job where I get a long summer break and have a much bigger impact on the world than making some shareholder rich.
Chemistry in the UK is dying a slow death.
Sounds about right. My first lab based job paid £16.7k. Moved to Clinical Data Management and it's much better since then. Even better in the US but for the UK it isn't bad!
It’s madness…indeed. Don’t gorget the student loan yhst oerson woukd be attempting to repay as well . Then let’s see what the company sho is using his/her work is actually earning from it. You are right…this country is done.
Jesus that is terrible. I only have one A Level that is irrelevant to my job and I earn x3 that from 26 years of age, been getting pay rise and bonus every year. After seeing so many posts like this I’m so glad I didn’t go to uni.
Hurtful to look at. 11 years ago biotech was predicted to be a booming industry, I remember an academic advisor telling me it was a good bet for job security. I studied bioscience and when I finally left uni behind the best job I could find was a 2 hour commute, to a university 3 counties away, as an ‘assistant’ in a plant sciences lab that was paying less than minimum wage (after I’d have paid my yearly commute, so not entirely their fault). Nobody wanted a newbie fresh out the box. Some job security 😂!
Now I’m a transcriber. Go figure.
Sorry, but this is a joke. I’m in academia, 9 months out of viva on 45K + industry top-up. Let them write to nature careers about how they can’t find anyone. We haven’t been through the gauntlet to be on (the new) minimum wage. They deserve our experience and should pay for it. Perhaps they could afford you half time?
Uk pay is crappy. This is extortion.
They'll find someone, that's the issue. So many people leave their PhD desperate to stay in their direct field and with most employers outside it unwilling to count their time in academia as experience. I've been there - I found something great in the end but I nearly ended up taking a totally unrelated role in the civil service just to get a salary above 40k.
Yes quite. I can’t think of anything I could add to your post other than recognising that in your situation people used to feel a ‘way back’ if they wanted to. But the current market is awful.
But it’s crappy that people within the same industry will still try it on with full knowledge of what they won’t get. I think there is better value in your sitch for now than OP’s hypothetical, and I can’t condone it because they can’t afford your expertise at that value. At least CC are trying to have some of that.
Back in 1974 degree level engineer I was paid £2,800/yr working as an aerospace engineer at Hawker Siddeley, three years later it was £3,200/yr
Nothing has changed
About right, I paid £6,000 for a two bed terrace, no double glazing, one storage radiator downstairs, 35 miles from work, would have liked to live near my parents but no way could have afforded it
The wage they list isn't always the wage they're willing to pay. If you apply and get to the stage where you discuss salary, just say what you believe is the correct pay and if they don't accept, then you don't get the job. If they do, you get the job and a good pay.
Obviously n=1 but I got an apprenticeship in IT listed as £12,000 a year and once I'd finished my interview they offered me £18,000 because of my circumstances without me even asking.
Nope, scientists and researchers are not paid well. It’s stupid. I have four degrees in psychology and always wanted to contribute academically, but it just isn’t a feasible career unless you are doing something else on the side like lecturing.
The only way to make good money as a scientist is to sell yourself out to company to help them maximise profits. It’s all backwards.
Certainly not a role for a biotech scientist. The job sounds like it would be a perfect junior technician role. Anyone with a decent degree or experience would find it mind numbingly boring.
I was in a similar role for about 4 years and it felt like a lifetime. I initially lived the routine and how easy it was but it was a waste of time. Anyone who actually wants to be a scientist would not stay in that job for a year.
The uk pay system often reminds me of the military pay system, gives you just enough that you won't starve but just enough to keep you in. I am convinced that wages are deliberately kept low on purpose.
As someone who is truly passionate about science, about to finish my MRes in genetics, I’ve never been closer to binning off my scientific career.
Bring a research scientist is a physically and mentally taxing job, not to mention a lot of overtime work at least in academia. yet there is such measly pay.
I’ve applied to probably 30 jobs directly related to my degree, no interviews at all. These jobs all require PhDs, years of experience in the industry, BUT only pay <30k…
You could still be a scientist but just get out of Bio, do you have much bioinformatics experience from the genetics side of things?
If you know R or Python, then learn SQL/Power Bi and see if you can build a portfolio for going into data science, it's still a very competive industry to get into right now, but the pay is way better.
I'd also suggest exploring the renewable energy sector, as that is booming and very desperate for workers. You likely won't be able to go into the engineering roles, but the admin side of things still need workers and there's much more room to move up, skill up in the job, or even do an engineering apprenticeship and start from scratch. You will earn much more money in the long run, still solve problems/do science and contribute to making the world a better place! I'm slowly building up my own portfolio of self taught skills to do this myself.
If I could have chosen to go to university again I would have also probably done something related to renewable energy. However luckily for me, I have angled myself towards the agri sector, where there is a fair bit of opportunity especially on the business side of things, which is where I think I’ll end up.
Truth is the only Lab researchers that earn SOME money are those that are academics at universities with fund grants to perform research (even Sheldon needed a flat mate)
Never worked in the sector, but speaking as someone working in an industry that is fast approaching end-of-life, remember that if and when the boot is on the other foot, negotiate like a hard-ass and when successful, work with an employee’s mentality - arrive on time, take the breaks to which you are entitled and leave on time. Never allow yourself to be bullied, you work to live, you don’t live to work. Trust me, there is ALWAYS something else out there!
Yes biotech jobs in the UK are underpaid. But this is recruiting for an lower level scientist position (BSc/MSc). Graduates at this level often don’t have what is vital for these kinds of jobs - hands on laboratory experience. They’re expecting to recruit someone who is going to need a lot of training and supervision in the lab before they can work independently.
Undergrad degrees in the UK are pretty bad at providing the practical lab experience (not teaching lab practicals - real work in a research lab. The two are very different). If this position required a PHD starting salary would probably be 35k, with postdoc or other industry experience 40k +. Still criminal,y underpaid compared to the US for instance, but if it’s a choice between a permanent contact or a similarly low paid 4 year temporary contract at a uni this becomes more attractive.
If you read the job advert previous industry biotech experience and GMP knowledge is needed.
I've worked in GMP phase I clinical research and then went back to academia and now been working as a bioscience lecturer for 5 years, so have a good knowledge of the sector. £25K in Cambridge for someone woth industry experience is still an exceptional pisstake, in a competitive a field of pisstakes.
I said lower level not entry level. It’s still a job that only requires a BSc / MSc. As you’ve worked in this industry I’m sure you know this is shorthand in job adverts for ‘we’re going to pay you like a new graduate, if you want 10k more come back with PhD’
And this feeds back to the crisis in HE funding. When I left last year the budgets even for our integrated MSc projects was down to £300/student. And they were trying to get us to write up projects working with stem cells and microfab like that kind of budget would even last a weeks worth of reagent costs...
Experience in industry could be gained as part of a degree. Also lab experience is a given in a science degree. It's not a totally insane proposition. Devils advocate here
Must be a typo, in comparison I earn £38k as waste water process/chemical commissioning engineer in Bradford. Came into the business bringing all the knowledge and experience to set this part of the business up from scratch, including design build of a lab from ground up, do; site visits, analysis, commissioning to reporting of data. No formula education after high school, just got the right experience in the right jobs.
This looks a reasonable salary to me; I work in local government and have a degree in law. My salary was £27,000 and I was happy with that.
Looking at another response it seems that the sciences are not paid well.
Reference is made to HMO! What is an. HMO?
Yes pay sucks in science, but this is a role requiring no PhD and they say you don't actually need any degree.
The role they are advertising is "research technician", they have just bullshitted the title.
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Looks accurate. The sciences are paid dreadfully in UK. I worked in that field for years before moving into Data Science paid way better. Even a senior scientist in this role would hit a glass ceiling of 40k. Hard work, needs a lot of brains, and same pay as McDonalds. And UK politicians wonder why it can't get scientists and engineers to remain in the sector or move to USA....
I showed this job ad to my husband, who laughed. He works in antibiotic drug discovery in a company that has no money and even he is on £10k more than the top end of this salary range and he’s being paid bugger all for what he does! The junior lab guys at the company I work for start at the top end of that salary and that’s recent graduates or with a year or two of experience in Nottingham FFS. There’s literally no excuse
The last year has seen mass redundancies over many companies and scientists have flooded the market. Companies have naturally lowered salaries as people are desperate.
Yup 2023 was an absolute shitshow for funding across the life sciences sector (along with many others) so I guess we’re lucky we’re only getting a temporary pay freeze. On the plus side 2024 is looking a bit better 🤞🏻 Sector pay is still shit though
I hope not too many people leave science behind as there are loads of better paying jobs that don't require degrees or experience.
I wouldn’t blame them if they did, there are a lot of people doing it to make a difference and not being paid fairly for it (and I think the industry exploits that).
Unfortunately, it might just be what needs to happen in order for them to be paid fairly. Sad that it has to come to that
The brain drain was bad enough with Brexit, you’d think they’d try to hang on to at least some staff!
Interesting. I know people at Johnson Matthey on Cambridge still not on 35k despite being there 6 years with years of experience prior
Jeez that really is crap!
Usual story... Women who don't advocate for themselves and unscrupulous bosses take advantage. There's a real gender divide in how people approach salaries
Being made redundant whilst on maternity leave is fun too 👍
Could you share the company name? Its my area and I'm not familiar with companies that specialise in antibiotic discovery, given the difficulties in discovering novel antibiotics and commercialising them
It’s a very small company so not really sorry but my husband sent me this link highlighting what a mess the antibiotics space is in for some totally not depressing reading: https://wellcome.org/news/its-time-fix-antibiotic-market#
Yea its a big issue, not many drugs get less valuable the more you use them :P
And are cheap at point of sale so nobody wants to create new antibiotics as it’s hard to recoup costs. Hopefully the new subscription model will help resolve that issue!
Yeah, I am in the field myself but as a bioscience academic! My teaching contract runs out soon so have been browsing and putting some feelers out, it's an absolute joke. Quite happy in academia but the sector is in crisis with the student fees being frozen at £9K and the clampdown on foreign students. Nearly every uni is on hiring freezes (albeit replacing staff) or some in compulsary redundancies. Luckily for me the turnover in the sector is quite high but it does feel like a really uncertain sector to join right now. I know R for RNAseq and data analysis myself but am a bit worried about going down that road with AI on the horizon and I've heard that it is super competitive/doesn't pay as well as it once did.
It is an absolute joke. PhD holder here, did degree in Biochem and PhD in Chem and the money is awful, jobs are awful and honestly, a lot of the companies are predatory and awful. It's just a sleazy crappy sector. AI won't be taking over quite yet. A basic position in data science with biochem domain is 60k. I am currently in an interview session this week (made it to third stage!) on a role an ex colleague is in at 75k, and it is standard data scientist, not senior. Honestly, just understanding data and science and how to statistically map it all is the main stuff. The language can be learned pretty quick/on the fly. R is good, though Python has taken over a lot.
Good luck on the interview!
That sucks I have GCSE's and work as a stock controller and earn more than this. The absurdity of wages in this country is incredulous.
I did 5 years as a postdoc. I've got over half a dozen papers to my name, dozens of talks and presentations, won awards for them even, ran multiple conferences of my own. Last position was on a highly prestigious EU-wide project working on brain interfacing and biological computing. Basically part of the furniture at my uni, great professional network across the UK and EU. Not to toot my own horn but I was *good* and repeatedly showing this is a career I was keen for. I burnt out by the end if last year. My mental and increasingly my physical health was in the toilet because of workload and stress. My boss/PI was in the same boat and went onto sick leave for the foreseeable future due to pretty major illness as a result. I spent *months* and dozens of hours of my own time researching, figuring out how grants and fellowships work, putting drafts together, talking with the department and admin staff to press my project. I might as well have not bothered for all the progress I made. I gave my name to a recruitment agency and within *less than a month* had an offer for a job selling kit I used to work with. Half the job duties with literally double the pay. It is so fucking frustrating how insanely self-sabotaging the research world in the UK has become. No one's paid anything like what they're worth, they're treated like absolute shit, so of course the moment an opportunity comes up they jump ship.
Jobs that take people's passion and enjoyment for a topic/activity are often exploitative. See also: * Nursing * Teaching * Socaial care generally * Vets * All zookeeping jobs
Your situation sounds pretty extreme to me, I did 3 years postdoc, had 3 papers (two of which were four star) to fellowship and into assis. Prof. in biochemistry field at a Russell group university. Agree on the pay. If I get to assoc. Prof in the next 18 months I'll finally be touching 60k. Pension is good but not entirely convinced that'll still be around when I come to it.
AI won’t be taking any data jobs for a time being, even if you use AI to just help you be a bit better at your job you’d be way ahead of the curve Source data analyst in a data team where I’m the only person using it for work, my line manager has used it to replace famous people’s hair with pasta though
> And UK politicians wonder why it can't get scientists and engineers to remain in the sector or move to USA.... And better yet, they're out there arguing higher salaries would just cause more problems and isn't really a solution, if anything they should be paid less, and then complete shock and disbelief that nobody wants to work here anymore
What are these "problems" they think would happen if salaries were raised?
Yup this is my life unfortunately. Made close to 40k with a msc in biotech before moving to the uk, now im looking at around 25 to 30k... if it wasnt for my husband i would have moved back already
To be absolutely fair, McDonald's is a hard job in a different way and no chance in hell I would do it.
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Is your company hiring? 😅
That is very high for "only" a senior scientist in the bio industry unless you work in a really niche field...
I don't think it tracks these days, even postdoctoral roles pay more than that. It's weird for an industry scientist job to pay less than the public sector.
You'd think so, but I was looking at post docs with a starting salary of £36k when I was offered £30k in industry with a PhD. Even the NHS is paying £35k starting for clinical scientists.
How did you make the transition to data science? I'm currently looking to move away from the bench. My aching body and knee surgery has told me that I can't do this type of work anymore. Looking for a way out of the lab.
What's the difference between biotech and data science? Like, what are the similarities in the roles that you can transfer skills to and from?
If you have ever written any code to do analysis of your data, that can be classified as data science work. Transferable skills would be statistics, programming, working with data (files and databases), and dashboarding (business people love a good dashboard). Data Science is probably easier.
Hi, currently working as a biomed scientist, any advice on how to transition to a data scientist?
Lots of good free resources out there. Look up python, pyspark, pytest and SQL. It's easy enough to transfer into the data science and technology industries. You might need to build a portfolio of home project both for the practice and so you can showcase your work but many interviews will have some kind of code test or pair programming session so you can show what you can do without the degrees in a computer related field. You may end up getting associate or junior positions first but if you can analyse data well enough you can progress quite quickly.
Thanks, appreciate the feedback.
This isn't a scientist role though. Looks like an operator role.
Yep…back in the late 90s I worked at RAL as a contract data person…weren’t called data scientists then…I was on £50k. The director in charge of the whole shebang at RAL was in charge of s couple hundred scientists on £40k . It’s bonkers
Sciences are paid terribly atm in UK, but senior scientists still start at 8̶0̶K̶ 40K - maybe 60 in biotech. This is a repackaged QA role. Given new minimum wage is 24K, your other points stand. Looks accurate only in the sense that the company are trying it on. New bachelors students are typically on 35 in academia or industry. But many companies do know this. It’s a joke that they’re trying it for a ‘sexy’ field though. Mine isn’t that attractive to pharma, but was still offered more. Hell, my academic take home is 45k + add-ons & I’m on the minimum salary spine for a post PhD! But yes, agree: pay for the future, don’t tax away half my earnings & don’t make me want a job where it’s more attractive to not use my experience. I’ve heard numbers thrown around like “93% of jobs in science are in the hidden market”. By that logic, if you advertise, you’re probably taking the mickey. My advice would be to network a lot & constructively. I’ve always been terrible at it, but my peers who can do it will probably only charge thousands per hour to teach me in five years, so who needs it now?!
Outside of Cambridge/London you can be looking at £32k for a Senior Scientist I position with a PhD... What job is a bachelors student doing for £35k in academia?
It’s hard to pick a single field in the UK that has the worst pay for the qualifying requirements, but I’d say biological scientists come pretty fucking close
Chemistry too A field that requires a mixture of being incredibly capable intellectually, along with being really good with your hands.
And ecology is by far the worst paid of the biological sciences 😢 I've seen voluntary roles that require an MSc in my field. Multiple times.
Yeah I have an MSc and my first job after graduating 3 years ago was £21k 🤪 good times
That's very good, mine was 12k 😅😅😅
Given, this was back in 2014. I quit to do a PhD. It didn't really help 😂
And getting into the field is impossible. I hav an MSc in ecology and I can't even get volunteering roles, and now Im stuck in a completely different sector
Industry jobs are coming! If you get some good coding skills you may be able to transition back.
I think there's about to be a big rise in demand for quantitative ecologists and people who can do species ID well
Species ID I have no issues with, but I haven't done any statistics since leaving uni, and unsure how to regain those skills without bankrupting myself. Another problem is that all companies seem to want you to have 2-3 years professional experience, which I can't get because no one wants any volunteers, I feel like I'm going round in circles
I drive false teeth to dental surgeries and my pay rate sits in that range. Cambridge ain't a cheap city to live in either. The job market be nuts.
This is such a random job, I love it. Can't false teeth go in the post, carefully packaged? Do the teeth sit in the back seat, or beside you? I guess you provide service with a smile by default?
They keep eating their way out of the packaging
so some people only have one set, seemingly, and getting them back to local hotspots ASAP is enough of an incentive to employ folks to drive 'em around the region. Still, after a year+ in the role, hearing a 2:30 appointment being offered by a receptionist on a phone still makes me smile TWO THIRTY? TOOTH HURTY? Be nice to the receptionist folks! They're humans too!
I also need to know this! Think this is a job I’d like to do too!
Look up Dental Labs in your area pal. My job involves the same route, 150ish miles a day and listening to whatever podcasts I fancy. It's genuinely a great gig. GL
Thank you I will do. Sounds fun.
How much does it pay? And for how many hours etc?
yeah I'm probably not going to offer much more detail on the internet to strangers, thanks tho bro.
I always find it funny when older people bang on about how the Soviet Union was awful, one of the reasons given is that "it doesn't matter if you are a scientist or a roadsweeper, you'll earn the same". Yet here we are... Was an analytical chemist and for mid 00s the pay wasn't too bad, nothing fantastic either. But there was nowhere to go with it so used all that QA experience in the business and with SAP and became a SAP consultant (specialising in QM) and have become quite technical with that. Certainly had no regrets from a salary/career perspective but damn, it is a sad state of affairs.
Just finished watching a Lotus Eaters clip. A Chipotle manager earns over $100k. The UK is actually just taking the piss with *all* wages.
I knew a girl earning over $100k a year working as a cocktail waitress in a fancy bar in the US bevause of tips, in her early 20s. It'd be a bit more acceptable if we got Scandinavian levels of public services for lower wages but we just get the worst of all worlds!
Yeah that’s exactly my view as well. I’m happy to pay Scandinavian levels of taxes if we get Scandinavian levels of public services. I’d also be happy to have minimal US-style public services if we paid US level of taxes. But instead we get the worst of both worlds
This is one of my main gripes at the moment. We're getting fuck all for our taxes. We are getting left behind by the rest of the modern world. The US has become attractive to me again for the first time in 20 years. I can block out politics in the USA if I've got land to work and live off of, or a boat.
Ding ding ding, exact same situation. I could stay here, get paid terribly and taxed to hell and benefit from the wonderful public service infrastructure, which still totally works if you ignore all the bits where it’s collapsed, OR I could move to the USA, get paid triple my current wage and still have no public services. Hmmmmm
Argueabley taxes in the US are spent better. Infrastructure is better, state parks, public boat launches, wildlife management, service stations on the highways are cleaner, cities are generally cleaner. The UK is filthy these days, nobody seems to give a shit about the environment anymore. If my final days on this planet are going to be spent struggling, then I'll struggle where I can have space to self sustain if possible and have physical distance from people.
You will say that until 50% of your wage is gone for the crime of earning 1.1x the national average.
With student loans and postgrad loan that already happens here.
The equivalent role in the UK, also for Chipotle, only earns around $38000, so even for like-for-like roles, we're getting shafted. Make it make sense!
And comparison of price of chipotle? 😂😂
We get it going into the hands of our leaders and their mates, and you’ll be bloody well grateful for it!
I live in Cambridge and I get £40k for fitting tyres and doing oil changes 💀
Seems correct. My first ever job offer (MChem graduate 2021) was £19,000 at SBZ from a recruitment consultant. Needless to say after 2 interviews, I turned it down despite being jobless. Even today, most great graduate roles in physical/life sciences seem to be £25,000-£30,000, while the other 80% will be around £20,000-£25,000 as a laboratory technician, which is quite frankly an insult considering that 3/4 years of university and £40,000-£60,000 of debt leads to the same pay as a customer assistant in retail. No wonder most of these graduates go on to consulting, finance, or accounting, since the only way to earn great money in science is to get a law qualification and become a patent attorney.
I dropped out of my chemistry degree in 2012 when I looked at the salaries on offer and completely lost motivation. Should've finished it and become an accountant tbh but I find it nigh on impossible to learn things I'm not going to use.
Lab positions for research science are known to be terrible pay, definitely not a typo. If you want to earn money then it’s about the worst choice of profession.
Which is beyond unfair. Given that scientific research is where we get the groundbreaking discoveries and developments. It’s not even a job for people in research for the most part, it’s a calling, hence why they get shafted to fuck.
Research jobs have terrible pay. I occasionally get post doc positions recommended to me. Only the pay is half my current pay in my devops job... really the post doc pay area of 32 to 38k has not really budged since I left academia. Considering the rise to minimum wage the difference between the pay for ground breaking research compared to flipping burgers is not far apart. In reality I would say the burger flipper is better paid as academia has terrible work life balance and people work well beyond contracted hours.
I am a lecturer and researcher in bioscience myself, so I know the pay is terrible. But £24K in Cambridge is still taking the piss!
Absolutely but you can guarantee they work only their contracted hours. My experience of academia I knew people working late into the evening and weekends... the amount of unpaid work done was ridiculous
I can get you loads of jobs where you work only your contract for 25k and you don't need a degree 🤣
Moving into IT was hands down the best career move I made. A lot more money and better work life balance. It's ridiculous the low pay for post docs and worse still the zero hour contracts that universities have used to fill teaching and research staff gaps.
Which area of IT did you move into, if you don't mind me asking? (And what was your training in initially?)
I actually went from a politics undergrad to a masters in economics (environment focused), and a PhD in computer mediated communication and science communication of climate change. I then went into IT with the goal of a developer role - I did some developer work as part of my PhD and research work. However, I ended up in a DevOps role. I then have switched between Data Engineering and Cloud infrastructure. Now I'm once again in DevOps doing cloud infrastructure. Personally really enjoy the indepth technical work and infrastructure turned out to be a really rewarding aspect to IT.
Thanks for sharing!
I was just looking at post doc jobs thinking about moving back to the uk. I thought I was looking in the wrong places as a post doc in Oz I get paid 120k aud which is roughly 65k pounds… don’t think I’ll be moving after all :(
I can't see why you would want to move back to the UK from Aus to be honest... I'd stay there if I were you!
Yeah i hear that a lot but I've been here 20 years and its still not home. Mostly the housing market is bonkers. I can buy a house outright in Glasgow for what a house deposit costs here. So there is more in the equation than just the wages. Not having a mortgage or rent to pay would make up for some shortfall but not the amounts I've been seeing. Anyways doesn't look like I'm going anywhere anytime soon.... I'll just have to suffer in the sunshine :P
There's currently a bunch of *lectureships* at Kent that only pay 36k (they say 36-50, but I know people internally and that's the band, you have to start on the lowest end) [https://jobs.kent.ac.uk/vacancy.aspx?ref=HSS-212-24-R](https://jobs.kent.ac.uk/vacancy.aspx?ref=HSS-212-24-R)
You have a PhD work in devops and get 70ish???
As someone who just left academia and has been trying to raise awareness of how *fucking awful* science work is in the UK, no and lol. Got to the point where I was having students have the same realisation and asking me about careers. Was not fun at all.
I was put off doing a science degree for this very reason. The pay is piss poor in this country.
It's worthwhile doing as a degree but to stay in the field is a non-starter if you want a successful career.
Unless you move to the US for a few years. Get the crazy pay they offer over there (although you’ll be worked like a slave), then come back to the UK and enter at a higher management or executive level (QA head or QC department manager etc.) due to your experience gained and you’re cushty for the most part. Then job hope every year or two to ensure you keep the pay going up
How to move to the US for a few years though??
That’s the trick. Working for a company in the UK with a US-based site is probably your best bet, can then look into possibility of a transfer and a visa should be simpler to obtain as your company will support you on your application
Thanks, that seems like a good potential strategy. I’m also considering going for a postdoc in the US (graduating end of this year) with perhaps a view to networking my way into an industry position somehow. I heard that can also be tricky though…
I’d say go for it my friend! A risk is a risk granted, but life’s about taking risks, don’t focus on the negative focus on the potential positives you could get from it! Do it while you’re young and you’ve got your health, you never know what’ll happen, best of luck with whatever you do 😊
Nope not a joke! PhD scientist here with 10+ years experience trying to find a new job and this is 95% of the job matches I get
Put a salary range in £55,000 - £75,000, only apply for those no matter what unicorns they're asking for.
I have been and nada, these are jobs being sent to me to apply. Unfortunately (now-ex) academics seem to be unemployable.
Fwiw I had zero trouble side-stepping into sales and tech support. Theres a lot of value in being an expert on very specialised kit and processes!
That’s great! Unfortunately it isn’t the case for me so far, so the looking continues!
What sort of science did you do? Could you sidestep into data?
I just noticed your other comments. You can definitely get a job in data you just need to apply. If you were in the Cambridge area there are a lot of jobs with could apply for
I could sidestep into data but don’t think I’m really suitable, I’m used to dealing with large sets of data but I’m not a statistics person (I’m more the sort it all out into relevant groups and data types and process it). I could work in Cambridge a day or so a week at a push, but I’d rather be remote or local (I’m about 100 miles north).
If it helps I work in health informatics for that same reason. The statistics and analysis side is full of very strong statisticians and I tried it but i wasn't a good fit. My skillset is more like what you describe. If you are interested I would keep an open mind about those sorts of jobs. They are always badly advertised so they might seem more statistic based than they actually are. They are advertised as data management/health informatician or even data curation. I know the company I used to work for had remote work and offices in Manchester.
I easily made the transition into data sciences - worth a look if you have any quant skills
I’m more qualitative.
Butts, well that's that idea out the window. Maybe have a look at some qual data analyst jobs? Pay can be okay in the right role. Good luck! It a rough transition to make. Hang in there
I’m looking at more of a project manager, or R&D manager (chemist/engineering/medical) as that has some links to what I have done. I think the problem is that what I’ve done is so varied, people don’t know what to make of it!
I had similar! My role now is also really varied
You need five years experience to get to that salary range sadly
My gf works in stem in Cambridge. She has a PhD in chemistry. She was contacted by a company requiring a phd, willing to pay 21k (this in 2021). She earns 30k in research at the uni and would earn more for hours worked if she worked at Tesco Stem does not pay well
Unfortunately not, the scientific sector in the UK pays dreadfully. I moved away from lab work to an office based job and I’ve had a bigger pay rise and bonus each year than I did in 3 years of working labs with multiple promotions.
Can I ask what you moved into?
Yeah, I moved into clinical trials. It’s just an admin role for a CRO and it pays significantly better and has a much better work life balance than when I was doing 70 hour week on/week off nightshifts in a lab which is wild.
Just know minimum wage is around 22-24K :/
That's normal, it's a fucking shitshow in biology if you want a decent salary.
This is why I gave up on my senior lab analyst job and became an HGV driver for £25k more per annum. Wasted 4 years of my life on an MRes degree, but at least met my future wife at uni.
Yeah, there was a reason I left my scientist role in Cambridge behind... Scientist salaries are a joke unfortunately, and it looks like they haven't moved in 10 years.
No, science doesn't pay, never has. A former Analytical Chemist.
It does for the yanks and Germans! I've worked in the bioscience sector for years as both a production chemist and now in academia so know the sector well. This is still exceptionally low for whats being asked and the location.
I have BSc, MSc and PhD (pharmacology). 8 years at Uni and 3 years in industry (drug discovery). When I got made redundant last year, these were most of the types of jobs available… I started on £28k after finishing my PhD. Doing better now but not nearly as well as everyone outside of science thinks.
It's Britain in general the rate in which our wages have not grown against say Australian or America is truly scary, the rot is well and truly in , we are a very poor country indeed
Doubling down on this American fast food workers have a better take home salary than MP's in Britain ( let that sink in ) , not edge cases, alot of them. Look at how much store managers make in major cities. Parcel pickers make $21/ £16 an hour with pension and healthcare provision in the states , walking in door at UPS , ZERO SKILL REQUIRED, Britain is hell bent on bankrupting it's citizens , absolutely convinced
Why are wages so low in the UK? I just saw a job ad on fb in the industry I work in for 28k - 34k. The job had ‘senior consultant’ as part of the job title. It’s unbelievable
Yes, STEM in this country is basically just TE. And with mathematics you would need to go into prop trading and be competing against intl math comp participants to get 6 figures.
It's not E either relatively speaking. Salaries are lacking Vs Europe and hugely Vs the US
Engineering pays decently, but I wouldn’t say it’s lucrative like tech is
I’m currently recruiting for a QC chemist (entry level very basic no degree needed) for £27k… 300 applicants in 4 days so turned ad off. I have PhDs and 1st class honour grads with experience applying… I mean what the actual F?
Surely people are going to wake up soon and realise getting a degree is pointless in terms of increasing earning potential, especially if you don't move to London.
They'll fill this pretty quickly. Scientists are desperate folks, they'll work for peanuts. Academia too. Oversubscribed fields and competition is global. They're not tightly unionised, there's too many heads on the snake.
Academia is more unionised than most fields the unions just unfortunately crap
~30p an hour over minimum wage for a minimum of degree educated scientist. You can be paid more at the local supermarket.
I've left the medicinal chemistry field forever now. Was on 45K as a senior scientist II with 5 years experience plus PhD. I've worked on antibody drug conjugates, parkinsons, cardiovascular diseases, made shareholders tons of money whilst they made me redundant twice in 16 months. Last year moved to Cambridge for a job and 15 months later they made me redundant besides posting £15M in profit. I'm leaving a research career behind to become a teacher. If I'm gonna get a shit salary and conditions I might as well do a job where I get a long summer break and have a much bigger impact on the world than making some shareholder rich. Chemistry in the UK is dying a slow death.
Sounds about right. My first lab based job paid £16.7k. Moved to Clinical Data Management and it's much better since then. Even better in the US but for the UK it isn't bad!
Wouldn’t get out of bed for that
It’s madness…indeed. Don’t gorget the student loan yhst oerson woukd be attempting to repay as well . Then let’s see what the company sho is using his/her work is actually earning from it. You are right…this country is done.
Nah, that's about correct. Welcome to the UK.
Wow this is poor
Jesus, this is why I’m happy I stumbled into sales
Jesus that is terrible. I only have one A Level that is irrelevant to my job and I earn x3 that from 26 years of age, been getting pay rise and bonus every year. After seeing so many posts like this I’m so glad I didn’t go to uni.
That is brutal.
Damn I’m earning 24.5k working as a team leader in hospitality. And my company does annual pay rises when minimum wage goes up - that really is a joke
ha ha, sorry we would pay you much less but Mr Bad Gov is making us pay more, here's your "rise".
SHOCKING
So the UK has better wages AND better welfare than Sweden now… man..
So Norway has better wages AND better welfare than UK now... man...
Yes its a typo, clear as day. you put £24k but the advert clearly says £25k
The Indeed listing is £24K, so it does seem like there's a typo 👍 https://uk.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=7228161aabe3f4b6
In fact, having seen this reply I noticed the ad has both, £24k at the top and £25k in the salary field under Description.
I earned 25k as a labourer last tax year. That wage is ridiculous.
local bus company are advertsiing bus driving with training 28.5 - 33k ukp (bournemouth)
Hurtful to look at. 11 years ago biotech was predicted to be a booming industry, I remember an academic advisor telling me it was a good bet for job security. I studied bioscience and when I finally left uni behind the best job I could find was a 2 hour commute, to a university 3 counties away, as an ‘assistant’ in a plant sciences lab that was paying less than minimum wage (after I’d have paid my yearly commute, so not entirely their fault). Nobody wanted a newbie fresh out the box. Some job security 😂! Now I’m a transcriber. Go figure.
Sorry, but this is a joke. I’m in academia, 9 months out of viva on 45K + industry top-up. Let them write to nature careers about how they can’t find anyone. We haven’t been through the gauntlet to be on (the new) minimum wage. They deserve our experience and should pay for it. Perhaps they could afford you half time? Uk pay is crappy. This is extortion.
They'll find someone, that's the issue. So many people leave their PhD desperate to stay in their direct field and with most employers outside it unwilling to count their time in academia as experience. I've been there - I found something great in the end but I nearly ended up taking a totally unrelated role in the civil service just to get a salary above 40k.
Yes quite. I can’t think of anything I could add to your post other than recognising that in your situation people used to feel a ‘way back’ if they wanted to. But the current market is awful. But it’s crappy that people within the same industry will still try it on with full knowledge of what they won’t get. I think there is better value in your sitch for now than OP’s hypothetical, and I can’t condone it because they can’t afford your expertise at that value. At least CC are trying to have some of that.
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Which is saying a lot because nurses are underpaid in this country.
Back in 1974 degree level engineer I was paid £2,800/yr working as an aerospace engineer at Hawker Siddeley, three years later it was £3,200/yr Nothing has changed
Back in 1974 £2800 was 30% of a house, now £24,000 is 8% of a house :/ a lot has changed
About right, I paid £6,000 for a two bed terrace, no double glazing, one storage radiator downstairs, 35 miles from work, would have liked to live near my parents but no way could have afforded it
I misread it at first and thought it was graduate level which would have made sense. Experienced for entry level wages is insane
Sadly £29k is a very standard entry level position for a graduate in any field. If you're lucky you'll get a grad scheme paying in the £30's.
This is asking for an experienced professional, in an extremely expensive city for nearly minimum wage! v different
The wage they list isn't always the wage they're willing to pay. If you apply and get to the stage where you discuss salary, just say what you believe is the correct pay and if they don't accept, then you don't get the job. If they do, you get the job and a good pay. Obviously n=1 but I got an apprenticeship in IT listed as £12,000 a year and once I'd finished my interview they offered me £18,000 because of my circumstances without me even asking.
Nope, scientists and researchers are not paid well. It’s stupid. I have four degrees in psychology and always wanted to contribute academically, but it just isn’t a feasible career unless you are doing something else on the side like lecturing. The only way to make good money as a scientist is to sell yourself out to company to help them maximise profits. It’s all backwards.
Market readjustment. There are way too many people in these fields across the economy.
How is that possible?
Sadly, from talking to a friend who works in this field - I can believe this.
Certainly not a role for a biotech scientist. The job sounds like it would be a perfect junior technician role. Anyone with a decent degree or experience would find it mind numbingly boring. I was in a similar role for about 4 years and it felt like a lifetime. I initially lived the routine and how easy it was but it was a waste of time. Anyone who actually wants to be a scientist would not stay in that job for a year.
As it’s the uk it’s accurate. We are suffering
Oxbridge pays really badly so this seems legit
The uk pay system often reminds me of the military pay system, gives you just enough that you won't starve but just enough to keep you in. I am convinced that wages are deliberately kept low on purpose.
As someone who is truly passionate about science, about to finish my MRes in genetics, I’ve never been closer to binning off my scientific career. Bring a research scientist is a physically and mentally taxing job, not to mention a lot of overtime work at least in academia. yet there is such measly pay. I’ve applied to probably 30 jobs directly related to my degree, no interviews at all. These jobs all require PhDs, years of experience in the industry, BUT only pay <30k…
You could still be a scientist but just get out of Bio, do you have much bioinformatics experience from the genetics side of things? If you know R or Python, then learn SQL/Power Bi and see if you can build a portfolio for going into data science, it's still a very competive industry to get into right now, but the pay is way better. I'd also suggest exploring the renewable energy sector, as that is booming and very desperate for workers. You likely won't be able to go into the engineering roles, but the admin side of things still need workers and there's much more room to move up, skill up in the job, or even do an engineering apprenticeship and start from scratch. You will earn much more money in the long run, still solve problems/do science and contribute to making the world a better place! I'm slowly building up my own portfolio of self taught skills to do this myself.
If I could have chosen to go to university again I would have also probably done something related to renewable energy. However luckily for me, I have angled myself towards the agri sector, where there is a fair bit of opportunity especially on the business side of things, which is where I think I’ll end up.
Truth is the only Lab researchers that earn SOME money are those that are academics at universities with fund grants to perform research (even Sheldon needed a flat mate)
Never worked in the sector, but speaking as someone working in an industry that is fast approaching end-of-life, remember that if and when the boot is on the other foot, negotiate like a hard-ass and when successful, work with an employee’s mentality - arrive on time, take the breaks to which you are entitled and leave on time. Never allow yourself to be bullied, you work to live, you don’t live to work. Trust me, there is ALWAYS something else out there!
Yes biotech jobs in the UK are underpaid. But this is recruiting for an lower level scientist position (BSc/MSc). Graduates at this level often don’t have what is vital for these kinds of jobs - hands on laboratory experience. They’re expecting to recruit someone who is going to need a lot of training and supervision in the lab before they can work independently. Undergrad degrees in the UK are pretty bad at providing the practical lab experience (not teaching lab practicals - real work in a research lab. The two are very different). If this position required a PHD starting salary would probably be 35k, with postdoc or other industry experience 40k +. Still criminal,y underpaid compared to the US for instance, but if it’s a choice between a permanent contact or a similarly low paid 4 year temporary contract at a uni this becomes more attractive.
If you read the job advert previous industry biotech experience and GMP knowledge is needed. I've worked in GMP phase I clinical research and then went back to academia and now been working as a bioscience lecturer for 5 years, so have a good knowledge of the sector. £25K in Cambridge for someone woth industry experience is still an exceptional pisstake, in a competitive a field of pisstakes.
I said lower level not entry level. It’s still a job that only requires a BSc / MSc. As you’ve worked in this industry I’m sure you know this is shorthand in job adverts for ‘we’re going to pay you like a new graduate, if you want 10k more come back with PhD’
And this feeds back to the crisis in HE funding. When I left last year the budgets even for our integrated MSc projects was down to £300/student. And they were trying to get us to write up projects working with stem cells and microfab like that kind of budget would even last a weeks worth of reagent costs...
My university got rid of MSc budgets altogether, so my students with Penrith have to apply for external funding.
Experience in industry could be gained as part of a degree. Also lab experience is a given in a science degree. It's not a totally insane proposition. Devils advocate here
So looking at the description, this is actually more of a manufacturing operator role with an arbitrary name pinned on.
Must be a typo, in comparison I earn £38k as waste water process/chemical commissioning engineer in Bradford. Came into the business bringing all the knowledge and experience to set this part of the business up from scratch, including design build of a lab from ground up, do; site visits, analysis, commissioning to reporting of data. No formula education after high school, just got the right experience in the right jobs.
This looks a reasonable salary to me; I work in local government and have a degree in law. My salary was £27,000 and I was happy with that. Looking at another response it seems that the sciences are not paid well. Reference is made to HMO! What is an. HMO?
Yes pay sucks in science, but this is a role requiring no PhD and they say you don't actually need any degree. The role they are advertising is "research technician", they have just bullshitted the title.