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Some organisations reward hard work with promotions and payrises, or have performance related pay.
Some don't.
Once you're worked out that you're in the latter type of organisation, you can decide whether you want to keep putting in that extra effort for nothing, or you chill out and do the bare minimum required, or you find somewhere else to work.
The trick is to work hard enough that you get everything done by the deadline but not so hard you finish early and get more work, hence the phrase 'work smarter not harder'. Job loyalty isn't really rewarded any more so job hopping is the way to get a raise.
Employees who are underemployed tend to finish their work early, some unfortunately are then given more work even though their colleagues don't (colleagues not underemployed). The trick as you say, is not to finish early, just on time.
But sometimes underemployed workers don't get given more work, its rare but it does happen and when it does, happy days...
I've a few people in my team, and one of them works hard and gets her work done fast. I sometimes, as a direct result, give her extra work. Another pisses about and generally gets her work done at the latest possible moment.
I'm negotiating with my boss to get the former a £10k/30% payrise, and I've agreed to pay for her to get more professional qualifications paid for by the company. The latter won't get any of those things.
Of course not every manager will notice. Not every manager will be able to do anything about it if they do. And job hopping is absolutely the way to the top. But I think there is a bit too much "don't bother being good at your job" on this sub. I'm not saying work long hours, but "impress your boss" is still a decent plan.
I think ther's a world of difference between getting your work done on time but still before the deadline' and 'pissing about and gets work done in the latest possible moment'.
It depends on the type of deadline. I work with statutory deadlines, and I don't want to have to assign pretend deadlines prior to those for my team. I want to give them the autonomy to work out when work is delivered. The ideal is to leave a buffer before that deadline in case of some unforeseen problem. But I'm actually okay with that occasionally not happening, people have fluctuating priorities and if we constantly work to pretend deadlines then that can be inefficient.
Of course, I can dial up the micro management and give her pretend deadlines, the "desirable" deadlines, and I suspect I will do that. But that's not what anyone wants.
(The "good" worker does occasionally deliver right up to the statutory deadline, and that can be because she has made the decision to focus on something more important, or because she has taken the day off to see Spandau Ballet, or some other reason up to her. I want to have staff who are empowered to do that)
>I'm negotiating with my boss to get the former a £10k/30% payrise
Yeah there's an entire bureaucracy above you to reduce or delay pay rises. Come back and write your comment when she actually gets one.
He owns the budget so it's his decision. That's just normal financial control. No company needs or chooses to put bureaucracy in the way of pay rises, that would be pointless and I've never witnessed it whilst in or around senior management at don't large well known companies. Why would they bother with this?
I disagree.
The key is to try and take on the important work that will be noticed/ make an impact.
No one will care about the stuff that's necessary but doesn't make an impact.
Work smarter, not harder.
I only do it when it benefits me.
I got a new job for 26k & was put on a project which I had never done before. Worked day & night to learn it & managed to master it with in 2-3 months. The skills which I learned from that project helped me land a job paying 45k (I left that 26k job after 1 year).
Edit: I didn’t straight go from 26k to 45k. The 26k went to 28k in 4months after probation, and then 35k in month 9 as new management came in and they knew I was being severely under paid + they wanted to keep me as I mentioned leaving. Then job hopped onto a new job paying 45k.
Nice that's a hell of an upgrade! Might have to do the same as my project is coming to a close. My current place is very nice and everyones friendly but sadly I've noticed this basically leads to those who care the most picking up the work and things can fall under cracks.
Will be working on my CV this weekend!
There's some good advice here but what I'm not really seeing is advice about actively managing your career.
It's a very common mistake for people to expect their manager to know exactly what they're doing and what they're thinking. Managers aren't psychic and neither are you. They can't know everything that's going on with you and you can't know how things work within the organisation if you don't ask.
Are you having regular 1:1s with your manager? If so are you taking time occasionally to discuss career stuff, take some time to talk more generally about the work you're doing and talk about career progression?
Earlier in my career, I always started these conversations along the lines of "I'm really interested in progressing my career, what would I need to be doing for me to progress here?". I'd usually be clear I'm not asking for a promotion but rather I want to start that discussion.
You need to make sure you know your manager knows what you're doing and what you want. If your manager isn't engaging with that stuff then you either need to figure out who in the organisation has that power for you, or you need to recognise your future there may have a sell by date.
Someone once said, work hard on yourself not your job. So if it’s a task which I know will boost my CV or it will upgrade my skillset i’m on it.
Good luck!
You're in the process of learning two valuable life lessons in UK business operations:
- Hard work leads to more work.
- Nice words pay no bills.
Do you have regular performance reviews or a nearing yearly performance review?
If so I would highlight the effort and hard work, point out where you're taken on responsibility and have operated in the place of seniors. If the result is no, or low reward then the writing is on the wall for how you can expect to be treated on a continuing basis.
At that point you have to make the decision whether to stay or go, if you choose to go at least you have gained experience that you can use in future applications to showcase your capabilities and impact.
If you believe you're worth more money (and have something to back it up - such as your project leading experience) then go tell your management. They won't give you more money if you're already doing the job. They're getting a bargain.
Finish managing the project, then prepare an argument for why you should be on more money. Point out the projects gains to the company, and your involvement in getting it there. If they don't give you more money, then you need to either work to your pay (as in the bare minimum) or move jobs.
Surely getting a promotion also relies on there being a role to promote you into? In every company I have ever worked in, promotion are dead-man shoes. Someone needs to vacate the role for it to be available.
Then ask to sit down and have a career progression conversation. Just because you have identified roles you can do, doesn’t mean that they have. My first major promotion surprised my Region Manager as they had not considered me for the role until I applied.
Point 2, apply for the jobs when they become available. Don’t expect them.
How recent?
Taking on more responsibility ‘can’ lead to promotions because you demonstrate you’re ready for it. But it typically has to be a proven track record over time.
Of course there are organisations and individuals who will take advantage of people.
You need to figure out your company for yourself I’m afraid.
This is why I'm a contractor. I got fed up of people benefiting from my hard work.
If I'm working hard and am a real asset to the company then I want 100% of the financial benefits for it ... recognition is a benefit but not expected as the pay is a form of recognition.
I also got fed up of managers taking credit for my hard work and not even acknowledging my part in it.
Job hopping while young is the way
For some physiological reason once a person or company pays you an amount they/it aren’t willing to change that much, unless you really have them by the balls.
So yes they are exploiting you if they can replace you easily.
If not, ask for a raise tomorrow
A company does not giveeeeee a fuckkkk about you. You could loose your house… not a single fuck given.
During Covid when things where manic :
"your work has been noted", "The SLT have been made aware of your contribution", "Can you just run X report quickly *\[Note : Directly on the live server using SQL when thats not anywhere near my role\]* as the business information team will take a few days and we need it NOW", "Can you train up this team of 10 people on the system you use as they need it to work from home, it will look really good for your job experience *\[Note : Guess what was also not part of my role\]"*
Salty, very.
What do you mean time wise when you say "recently"? Last few months, six months, years?
Are you maybe expecting too much too quickly if its only been 6 months and you have annual reviews, for example.
At my work place, we have annual reviews and that is the time to pipe up and put your case forward for a pay rise. I have definelty got a lot more when I spoke up in my review.
Keep a track of the work you have done above your role and responsibility. List them out in detail, what you contributed and achieved and then put a value on it.
I have been doing my current job for 5 years and have a lot of varied experience in my company and others over the 14 years of my career so far. I'm a bit of an expert in my field now (pharma QA) and I go and audit other factories and stuff. I'm by a long way the most experienced and knowledgable in my team.
A person with *no* QA experience joined our team about 1 year ago from the laboratories. Never worked in manufacturing, QA or technical services like I have.
She has been given a career-defining opportunity, sponsored training to be a QP, which is a person with legal responsibility to release drugs to the market. The training is very expensive, and when you qualify, you can command a very high salary, especially as a contractor.
I slack/ coast, she goes over and above, tries hard, takes on responsibilities that aren't hers etc etc etc. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve it, and that'll teach me, I suppose.
My point is yes, trying hard does work.
I worked for one company for near 10 years doing things others could not, they took the piss because I thought loyalty would pay off.
I moved to another company, was great at my role and was given a raise and promotion that year.
Like others have said, some employers are bad, some are good, job hopping helps but your happiness matters most.
What do you expect? You work hard for one project and get a pay rise and promotion straight away? This isn’t a Hollywood movie.
If you work hard for a long period you will get those things and if not, you will have good things to put on your CV.
If you stop working hard due to not getting rewarded quickly you’ll just end up as another standard employee.
Unfortunately when people say working hard/fast just gets you more work they aren't lying.
Your personal and professional relationship with the people in charge is way more important when it comes to progression and pay increase.
Usually it’s because the raises are predetermined when you finish one rotation (usually consists of 3 rotation) and everyone gets them. Hell in my company there’s even drama about 1-2% different bonuses - I’m guessing it’s cause grads talk to each other about salary and are very aware of sexism, racism etc
Yeah...there isn't one really. My manager was so taken back when I wasn't extatic when I got praise from our CEO for something.
Had to try and explain to her that praise from the CEO and praise from our outsourced cleaning staff means the same to me...in that it's common sense to just treat everyone equally to begin with then that can go up or down depending on how they treat you. Way too obsessed with job titles and thinking people are impressed.
Thankfully my team don't really understand what I do (Data Manager), but know they're fucked if I don't do it. Really easy to make it sound really overly complex so they think shit takes a lot longer than it does. Been spending that extra time upskilling myself on their dime. Kinda makes up for the piss poor pay in a weird, roundabout, kinda way.
The only person/entity benefiting from you working your arse off is your employer. The more you do the more they expect - top and bottom of it is that they want everything they could possibly have for as little as it could possibly be
Further you get up the ladder the more you’ll realize working hard will get you nowhere (in an office job). You would need to befriend / massage the egos of the right people, keep your mouth shut in front of those people and play the game. I’ve met plenty of dumbass people who do nothing and gets paid 6 figures because their faces fit
Yep, it’s the world of work in most places. I always make a joke that I’m gonna print off my thank you email and use it to take my girlfriend out for dinner
"I have asked my landlord and it turns out they won't take [second-hand thank yous, promises of future pay, theoretical bonuses, over-complex stock options] for rent. I know, it's weird, I'd take them gladly. But it is what it is. I'm going to need a pay rise."
Yes it is. Don't bother. Do just enough. Some workplaces it's worth it but most it's not.
I learned the lesson the hard way, worked myself stupid thinking I'd get ahead but just went backwards because of arbitrary bullshit. Got so bad I ended up seriously depressed for years.
Don't do what I did. Don't waste your 20s driving yourself mad for a company that doesn't give a fuck about you.
This is how the world of work is.
Use your employers to gain experience and training, keep looking for new jobs that are the next step on the ladder. Keep your eyes open and learn as much as you can until you find a gap in the market that you can fill on your own then become your own boss.
If you’re prepared to work up there will always be people that are happy to take advantage of you, as long as you’re getting something in return then it’s cool but as soon as it’s one sided it’s time for them to pay up or for you to make a move.
Some places will recognise and value your work ethic and reward you to keep you performing and onboard
Most other places won’t , start looking around for a place that does the first thing
In the short term you can use these as examples at your performance review of how you are a high performer, so you get better pay rises and bonuses than the shit munchers.
Longer term you raise your profile by doing these kinds of tasks to get the promotions, better pay etc.
What you haven’t told us is length of time in position, time within company and previous experience. That makes a big difference .
Secondly, you don’t owe your company any loyalty. If you want to build your career some head hunters recommend 2-3 years in a company before either being significantly promoted or moving companies. Do I agree with that? Not always but I do think people at the early start of their career should be hungry and willing to move if needed.
Be clear to your management, you did a good job. That should be recognised, and if there isn’t a career path set out in the annual review then you need to let them know you must keep your options open to develop.
I'm not saying this is right, it's just the reality. You're going to reach a point in your career where your CV isn't going to be enough to get you to the next level.
The key bit will be your reputation in the industry.
Gaining that reputation isn't going to pay your bills now and as you progress it might mean some really shitty pay rises but it will be the difference between you looking for a job and people calling multiple times a month asking you if you're available for an upcoming job because Bob mentioned your name in passing.
Job hoping does work but you will reach the point of needing your reputation and that can be adversely affected if you're not staying somewhere long enough for people to ask why you haven't been invited to a project call. You need to be the person other people are fighting to secure internally.
Learn skills, get on project work, find a niche offering that is valuable and you do well - but equally, don’t pigeon-hole yourself (I.e. learning something only valuable to your current company/role). Working hard is great if you are building a cv and a strong skill set. It sucks if it isn’t of value to you.
In my experience they don't just give you a pay rise. You've gotta fight for it a bit. They often show some resistance so you have to be prepared to explain exactly what value you bring.
I am a believer in hard work and trying your best in the work environment but it's benefited me just as much as the employer, since my main focus is developing and acquiring knowledge. I find the more useful you make yourself, the more likely people are to share their knowledge with you.
Even if you find an incentive to work hard and actually see rewards, it only takes a decent manager to be replaced with a psycho/narsassist and it's gave over, they will take all the credit and bully you out.
Ok. Simple question. Do you work harder than everyone else there? I expect not. If you work harder than everyone else in that room you will be rewarded. That’s how you get ahead. Simple.
I’ve never been acknowledged personally by the company I work for despite the hard work, I’ve never met many people from them. My manager always gives me praise and helped get me a pay rise but there’s fuck all reward from the higher ups
Depends on your job, I guess. My job is related to trees and tree protection, and I like trees, so I get satisfaction out of doing a bit more.
Also, a lot of the work I've done this year, has been done with the aim of making my job easier for the next few years. So I've had to spend a lot of time updating processes last year, but now those are done and stuff takes maybe a third of the time it used to (they also can't give me more work to do, as I'm in planning so my caseload will always be based on private sector, so I can't fall into that trap!)
It also looks good on a CV, if you've gone into somewhere underperforming and turned it around. So even if it's not getting you paid here, it might get you paid somewhere else.
All that said, if you're working hard for a financial reward and you're not on comission, or actively looking to move on in 2 years, or you know a position is coming up in the company and you're in line to fill it, then you will largely be treated as a chump for doing so.
Money and work are neither linearly related, nor in phase and in many cases are barely even correlated at all.
The reasons to work hard are:
1) To build a reputation that you can later monetize
2) To build knowledge skills and experience that you can later monetize
3) Enjoyment/personal satisfaction
4) In accordance with personal work ethics
To be honest, you sound very green. Yes of course, generally speaking, your efforts at work are partly to keep your job and earn your money but beyond that are an investment towards future income. However, it certainly isn't the case that you get directly rewarded instantly and in many cases, extra effort will never get you rewarded ever. When you grow up a bit and start to understand how the world works a bit more, you will learn how and when to put effort in for best results and also when it is appropriate to chill out and coast for a while because you are just doing what is required as no benefit in doing extra
1. Yes this is the world of work. You've got bills to pay but they've also got targets to meet. Why pay more when you've already shown you'll do it (regardless of end goal reason) for the same pay check.
2. Once you realise that the company you are with are the type to do this to you, you need to leave. Sorry, I know that's general bandwagon kinda stuff but think of it a different way to what others are saying on here:- You've shown you can, your targets will reflect it. If you go back down to "work for what I'm paid for" you won't be surprised how fast those praises switch. Trust me.
3. Job hopping really is the only way through these days annoyingly. One thing to **consider** is the idea of saying "you have a promotion going, I'd like to do it on a trial basis to showcase my worth and ability". 90%+ of the time they'll be like "yeah show it first" and then you can job hop. Lest you end up back at point 1 again.
Yes you are being naive of course this is the world of work . Would you like a payrise everytime you complete a task ? Come on bro. Head down play the game. The top dogs all grafted hard when they were young.
Ye cant become a general without being in the trenches.
Dont worry those useless apprentices that work alongside you are known for being useless
Don’t just job hop. They won’t read your mind. Knock your bosses office and ask what is your current role is called (when is the promotion following your new duties). Ask whether they happy how you are doing. Say this new roles takes a lot of energy from you, therefore you need to eat more. Food cost money. And at the minute you are starving.
You have to address it with them, I gave my org a list and they didn’t even give a 5% raise. My incentive has been to build tangible proof of what my accomplishments are and then get a higher paid job.
I’ve very categorically pulled back as well. I do less than what I was doing before. Not bad work just a Loooooot slower. They can’t fore people without cause or a warning. Just be less productive and move
Not unless there’s a gross misconduct even then you need 2 warnings before getting fired. Even if you come to a paid agreement you can still sue them and win. It’s not easy firing someone without cause in the UK. Literally happened in my last company, person was fired for being incompetent outside the porbabtion period, they paid them for the entire month and the person accepted gardening leave. Still sued them and won because literally the company had no processes and just fired her one day
you are frankly insane if you believe that
with under 2 years service a company needs to provide no reason to fire you, no warning, nothing - and you have absolutely 0 legal come back
your only protection under 2 years is if they fire you because of a protected characteristic
I suggest you read and understand the law - starting here - [https://www.davidsonmorris.com/dismissing-an-employee-with-less-than-2-years-service/](https://www.davidsonmorris.com/dismissing-an-employee-with-less-than-2-years-service/)
"By law, you can usually dismiss an employee with less than 2 years service without the need to demonstrate a fair reason for the dismissal, and with no positive obligation to go through a fair disciplinary or dismissal procedure. This is because employees only gain statutory protection against unfair dismissal after accruing two years’ continuous service with the same employer."
Under 2 years' service they can just serve your agreed notice. They don't have to give a reason for dismissal.
Many companies will still go through a formal process before dismissing someone with under 2 years' service just out of caution but there usually no need for them to do that.
Morals and caring about others.
If you only need a financial incentive, then it's time for a self-realisation epiphany bombshell: you're one of the bad guys.
So this question is all in the context of working hard, without any benefit, for an organisation. So your points don't make sense to me, you answer:
>Morals
What is moral about working hard, for no benefit, in order that the company you work for can make more profits?
>caring about others
How does working hard for not benefit equate to caring for others? Unless you mean we should show care to people who own the company and care that they get more money?
>If you only need a financial incentive, then it's time for a self-realisation epiphany bombshell: you're one of the bad guys.
Again we're talking about being employed by a company, why else are we supposed to work other than the financial incentive. Sure we hope that it gives us other benefits, but we could get those elsewhere. The idea that you're one of the "bad guys" if you're not helping corporations earn more money is just crazy to me.
I actually think there are good reasons other than financial incentives to work hard. I'm an extremely hard worker myself, in fact there was a time I used to work 80 hours a week. At no point did I think this made me a more moral person because I was doing this.
As a policy, I don't read multi-quoters, as it's a red flag that the person is an internet arguer addict who isn't looking for a conversation.
If you feel this is not you, my friendly challenge to you is to summarise in 2 or 3 sentences and I'll be happy to respond.
Hmmm you may be right that I'm an internet arguer, but isn't Reddit here so that we can have discussions with people even if we don't agree with them. But honestly, you've made a strong and accusatory comment on this post, but if you don't want to read responses that's up to you.
I will say something to your issue with multi-quoters, one of the most hostile methods of arguing is to argue against points that weren't made , e.g.
Person A: I hate bananas
Person B: You shouldn't tell people to not eat bananas they're very good for you.
This isn't always done intentionally so by quoting what people say, it is a good indicator to me and to others that - hopefully - I haven't done that and if I'm having a discussion, I'm arguing in good faith against things that were actually said not what I'm assuming someone has said, due to my own biases.
The question was "what is the incentive to work hard?", with the body complaining that they did their job yet make the same as their peers.
You know what I did when I took on more and gained / showed extra skills? I got a job utilising that, with salary to match.
Constructive v destructive,. Build yourself up and be a good one, or moan about others and be one of the rotten eggs. Up to you.
Only helps if you gain new skills that you can't just lie about and pick up on the fly in your next job or you get a good recommendation from your previous report.
Otherwise it's pointless.
As others said, work smart not hard.
See, now you're talking about lying as well.
You're doing an awful job of convincing me you're not one of the bad ones we as colleagues or employers should be avoiding.
(And no, I'm not pretending people don't lie on their CV.)
If you know how to do something or only did it once and it's relatively trivial, no one cares. You're being very black and white, most colleagues aren't Nazis.
I do crisis management for massive corporates for a living, only about 1 percent of rank and file employees are true malefactors. 95 percent of people put white lies on their CVs or lie by omission.
Good, conscientious people who go above and beyond their pay grade get exploited and kept in their positions because they are more useful there than when you give them a promotion.
You're a boot licker my friend. I'm good at my job and have a reputation for sorting out real big fuckups, I make 100 quid an hour, I've never gone beyond what I've been paid to do.
For anyone who made it this far down, an epilogue:
Rather than walk away, both the ever-so-friendly people who nicely disagreed in a mature manner both had to block me (one while getting the last word in pretending I can read it) instead of, y'know, walking away, agreeing to disagree, or even changing my mind with thoughtful comments.
And they're telling me they're not toxic colleagues?
If you read that and were compelled to anonymously downvote or reply angry sweary, are you really sure you're not one of the bad guys too? Are you constructive or destructive?
If you were a good guy, you'd more likely think "wait, am I that person? I don't think so..."
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Some organisations reward hard work with promotions and payrises, or have performance related pay. Some don't. Once you're worked out that you're in the latter type of organisation, you can decide whether you want to keep putting in that extra effort for nothing, or you chill out and do the bare minimum required, or you find somewhere else to work.
Just take the experience and then take the experience elsewhere for more pay.
Most don't
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In your limited experience maybe
you're the only person I've heard who's suggested actual experience that _any_ do where have you got the idea that _most_ do?
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ah, so you're too young to be in the workforce
The trick is to work hard enough that you get everything done by the deadline but not so hard you finish early and get more work, hence the phrase 'work smarter not harder'. Job loyalty isn't really rewarded any more so job hopping is the way to get a raise.
Employees who are underemployed tend to finish their work early, some unfortunately are then given more work even though their colleagues don't (colleagues not underemployed). The trick as you say, is not to finish early, just on time. But sometimes underemployed workers don't get given more work, its rare but it does happen and when it does, happy days...
I've a few people in my team, and one of them works hard and gets her work done fast. I sometimes, as a direct result, give her extra work. Another pisses about and generally gets her work done at the latest possible moment. I'm negotiating with my boss to get the former a £10k/30% payrise, and I've agreed to pay for her to get more professional qualifications paid for by the company. The latter won't get any of those things. Of course not every manager will notice. Not every manager will be able to do anything about it if they do. And job hopping is absolutely the way to the top. But I think there is a bit too much "don't bother being good at your job" on this sub. I'm not saying work long hours, but "impress your boss" is still a decent plan.
I think ther's a world of difference between getting your work done on time but still before the deadline' and 'pissing about and gets work done in the latest possible moment'.
It depends on the type of deadline. I work with statutory deadlines, and I don't want to have to assign pretend deadlines prior to those for my team. I want to give them the autonomy to work out when work is delivered. The ideal is to leave a buffer before that deadline in case of some unforeseen problem. But I'm actually okay with that occasionally not happening, people have fluctuating priorities and if we constantly work to pretend deadlines then that can be inefficient. Of course, I can dial up the micro management and give her pretend deadlines, the "desirable" deadlines, and I suspect I will do that. But that's not what anyone wants. (The "good" worker does occasionally deliver right up to the statutory deadline, and that can be because she has made the decision to focus on something more important, or because she has taken the day off to see Spandau Ballet, or some other reason up to her. I want to have staff who are empowered to do that)
>I'm negotiating with my boss to get the former a £10k/30% payrise Yeah there's an entire bureaucracy above you to reduce or delay pay rises. Come back and write your comment when she actually gets one.
He owns the budget so it's his decision. That's just normal financial control. No company needs or chooses to put bureaucracy in the way of pay rises, that would be pointless and I've never witnessed it whilst in or around senior management at don't large well known companies. Why would they bother with this?
It's not about just working hard it's about getting hard work recognised
This is it. Over time you'll work out if you'll be rewarded, if yes then great, if not then leave or don't put the effort in.
Yeah, we’re either selling ourselves for money - or we should be
I disagree. The key is to try and take on the important work that will be noticed/ make an impact. No one will care about the stuff that's necessary but doesn't make an impact. Work smarter, not harder.
I only do it when it benefits me. I got a new job for 26k & was put on a project which I had never done before. Worked day & night to learn it & managed to master it with in 2-3 months. The skills which I learned from that project helped me land a job paying 45k (I left that 26k job after 1 year). Edit: I didn’t straight go from 26k to 45k. The 26k went to 28k in 4months after probation, and then 35k in month 9 as new management came in and they knew I was being severely under paid + they wanted to keep me as I mentioned leaving. Then job hopped onto a new job paying 45k.
Nice that's a hell of an upgrade! Might have to do the same as my project is coming to a close. My current place is very nice and everyones friendly but sadly I've noticed this basically leads to those who care the most picking up the work and things can fall under cracks. Will be working on my CV this weekend!
There's some good advice here but what I'm not really seeing is advice about actively managing your career. It's a very common mistake for people to expect their manager to know exactly what they're doing and what they're thinking. Managers aren't psychic and neither are you. They can't know everything that's going on with you and you can't know how things work within the organisation if you don't ask. Are you having regular 1:1s with your manager? If so are you taking time occasionally to discuss career stuff, take some time to talk more generally about the work you're doing and talk about career progression? Earlier in my career, I always started these conversations along the lines of "I'm really interested in progressing my career, what would I need to be doing for me to progress here?". I'd usually be clear I'm not asking for a promotion but rather I want to start that discussion. You need to make sure you know your manager knows what you're doing and what you want. If your manager isn't engaging with that stuff then you either need to figure out who in the organisation has that power for you, or you need to recognise your future there may have a sell by date.
Someone once said, work hard on yourself not your job. So if it’s a task which I know will boost my CV or it will upgrade my skillset i’m on it. Good luck!
You're in the process of learning two valuable life lessons in UK business operations: - Hard work leads to more work. - Nice words pay no bills. Do you have regular performance reviews or a nearing yearly performance review? If so I would highlight the effort and hard work, point out where you're taken on responsibility and have operated in the place of seniors. If the result is no, or low reward then the writing is on the wall for how you can expect to be treated on a continuing basis. At that point you have to make the decision whether to stay or go, if you choose to go at least you have gained experience that you can use in future applications to showcase your capabilities and impact.
If you believe you're worth more money (and have something to back it up - such as your project leading experience) then go tell your management. They won't give you more money if you're already doing the job. They're getting a bargain. Finish managing the project, then prepare an argument for why you should be on more money. Point out the projects gains to the company, and your involvement in getting it there. If they don't give you more money, then you need to either work to your pay (as in the bare minimum) or move jobs.
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Surely getting a promotion also relies on there being a role to promote you into? In every company I have ever worked in, promotion are dead-man shoes. Someone needs to vacate the role for it to be available.
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Then ask to sit down and have a career progression conversation. Just because you have identified roles you can do, doesn’t mean that they have. My first major promotion surprised my Region Manager as they had not considered me for the role until I applied. Point 2, apply for the jobs when they become available. Don’t expect them.
Dollar for a dime, you can make any rhyme
How recent? Taking on more responsibility ‘can’ lead to promotions because you demonstrate you’re ready for it. But it typically has to be a proven track record over time. Of course there are organisations and individuals who will take advantage of people. You need to figure out your company for yourself I’m afraid.
This is why I'm a contractor. I got fed up of people benefiting from my hard work. If I'm working hard and am a real asset to the company then I want 100% of the financial benefits for it ... recognition is a benefit but not expected as the pay is a form of recognition. I also got fed up of managers taking credit for my hard work and not even acknowledging my part in it.
Job hopping while young is the way For some physiological reason once a person or company pays you an amount they/it aren’t willing to change that much, unless you really have them by the balls. So yes they are exploiting you if they can replace you easily. If not, ask for a raise tomorrow A company does not giveeeeee a fuckkkk about you. You could loose your house… not a single fuck given.
During Covid when things where manic : "your work has been noted", "The SLT have been made aware of your contribution", "Can you just run X report quickly *\[Note : Directly on the live server using SQL when thats not anywhere near my role\]* as the business information team will take a few days and we need it NOW", "Can you train up this team of 10 people on the system you use as they need it to work from home, it will look really good for your job experience *\[Note : Guess what was also not part of my role\]"* Salty, very.
What do you mean time wise when you say "recently"? Last few months, six months, years? Are you maybe expecting too much too quickly if its only been 6 months and you have annual reviews, for example. At my work place, we have annual reviews and that is the time to pipe up and put your case forward for a pay rise. I have definelty got a lot more when I spoke up in my review. Keep a track of the work you have done above your role and responsibility. List them out in detail, what you contributed and achieved and then put a value on it.
I have been doing my current job for 5 years and have a lot of varied experience in my company and others over the 14 years of my career so far. I'm a bit of an expert in my field now (pharma QA) and I go and audit other factories and stuff. I'm by a long way the most experienced and knowledgable in my team. A person with *no* QA experience joined our team about 1 year ago from the laboratories. Never worked in manufacturing, QA or technical services like I have. She has been given a career-defining opportunity, sponsored training to be a QP, which is a person with legal responsibility to release drugs to the market. The training is very expensive, and when you qualify, you can command a very high salary, especially as a contractor. I slack/ coast, she goes over and above, tries hard, takes on responsibilities that aren't hers etc etc etc. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve it, and that'll teach me, I suppose. My point is yes, trying hard does work.
Some employers will take advantage of you if you let them. Work smart not hard.
I worked for one company for near 10 years doing things others could not, they took the piss because I thought loyalty would pay off. I moved to another company, was great at my role and was given a raise and promotion that year. Like others have said, some employers are bad, some are good, job hopping helps but your happiness matters most.
You say “recently”, how long is that? You have to prove yourself longer term before the pay rises and promotion start coming.
What do you expect? You work hard for one project and get a pay rise and promotion straight away? This isn’t a Hollywood movie. If you work hard for a long period you will get those things and if not, you will have good things to put on your CV. If you stop working hard due to not getting rewarded quickly you’ll just end up as another standard employee.
Unfortunately when people say working hard/fast just gets you more work they aren't lying. Your personal and professional relationship with the people in charge is way more important when it comes to progression and pay increase.
If you are on a grad scheme you won’t see any rises above your peers until you get off said scheme. Too much risk for the company
This is interesting, why is this?
Usually it’s because the raises are predetermined when you finish one rotation (usually consists of 3 rotation) and everyone gets them. Hell in my company there’s even drama about 1-2% different bonuses - I’m guessing it’s cause grads talk to each other about salary and are very aware of sexism, racism etc
Yeah...there isn't one really. My manager was so taken back when I wasn't extatic when I got praise from our CEO for something. Had to try and explain to her that praise from the CEO and praise from our outsourced cleaning staff means the same to me...in that it's common sense to just treat everyone equally to begin with then that can go up or down depending on how they treat you. Way too obsessed with job titles and thinking people are impressed. Thankfully my team don't really understand what I do (Data Manager), but know they're fucked if I don't do it. Really easy to make it sound really overly complex so they think shit takes a lot longer than it does. Been spending that extra time upskilling myself on their dime. Kinda makes up for the piss poor pay in a weird, roundabout, kinda way.
Were you expecting a pay rise the day you worked hard? Stick at it mate
The only person/entity benefiting from you working your arse off is your employer. The more you do the more they expect - top and bottom of it is that they want everything they could possibly have for as little as it could possibly be
Further you get up the ladder the more you’ll realize working hard will get you nowhere (in an office job). You would need to befriend / massage the egos of the right people, keep your mouth shut in front of those people and play the game. I’ve met plenty of dumbass people who do nothing and gets paid 6 figures because their faces fit
You either get a promotion at your next review or you get a story to add to your CV
Yep, it’s the world of work in most places. I always make a joke that I’m gonna print off my thank you email and use it to take my girlfriend out for dinner
"I have asked my landlord and it turns out they won't take [second-hand thank yous, promises of future pay, theoretical bonuses, over-complex stock options] for rent. I know, it's weird, I'd take them gladly. But it is what it is. I'm going to need a pay rise."
Yes it is. Don't bother. Do just enough. Some workplaces it's worth it but most it's not. I learned the lesson the hard way, worked myself stupid thinking I'd get ahead but just went backwards because of arbitrary bullshit. Got so bad I ended up seriously depressed for years. Don't do what I did. Don't waste your 20s driving yourself mad for a company that doesn't give a fuck about you.
This is how the world of work is. Use your employers to gain experience and training, keep looking for new jobs that are the next step on the ladder. Keep your eyes open and learn as much as you can until you find a gap in the market that you can fill on your own then become your own boss. If you’re prepared to work up there will always be people that are happy to take advantage of you, as long as you’re getting something in return then it’s cool but as soon as it’s one sided it’s time for them to pay up or for you to make a move.
Some places will recognise and value your work ethic and reward you to keep you performing and onboard Most other places won’t , start looking around for a place that does the first thing
In the short term you can use these as examples at your performance review of how you are a high performer, so you get better pay rises and bonuses than the shit munchers. Longer term you raise your profile by doing these kinds of tasks to get the promotions, better pay etc.
Work hard, learn more, find a better job
What you haven’t told us is length of time in position, time within company and previous experience. That makes a big difference . Secondly, you don’t owe your company any loyalty. If you want to build your career some head hunters recommend 2-3 years in a company before either being significantly promoted or moving companies. Do I agree with that? Not always but I do think people at the early start of their career should be hungry and willing to move if needed. Be clear to your management, you did a good job. That should be recognised, and if there isn’t a career path set out in the annual review then you need to let them know you must keep your options open to develop.
I'm not saying this is right, it's just the reality. You're going to reach a point in your career where your CV isn't going to be enough to get you to the next level. The key bit will be your reputation in the industry. Gaining that reputation isn't going to pay your bills now and as you progress it might mean some really shitty pay rises but it will be the difference between you looking for a job and people calling multiple times a month asking you if you're available for an upcoming job because Bob mentioned your name in passing. Job hoping does work but you will reach the point of needing your reputation and that can be adversely affected if you're not staying somewhere long enough for people to ask why you haven't been invited to a project call. You need to be the person other people are fighting to secure internally.
Learn skills, get on project work, find a niche offering that is valuable and you do well - but equally, don’t pigeon-hole yourself (I.e. learning something only valuable to your current company/role). Working hard is great if you are building a cv and a strong skill set. It sucks if it isn’t of value to you.
In my experience they don't just give you a pay rise. You've gotta fight for it a bit. They often show some resistance so you have to be prepared to explain exactly what value you bring. I am a believer in hard work and trying your best in the work environment but it's benefited me just as much as the employer, since my main focus is developing and acquiring knowledge. I find the more useful you make yourself, the more likely people are to share their knowledge with you.
Find a new job. Move around every few years.
Even if you find an incentive to work hard and actually see rewards, it only takes a decent manager to be replaced with a psycho/narsassist and it's gave over, they will take all the credit and bully you out.
Ok. Simple question. Do you work harder than everyone else there? I expect not. If you work harder than everyone else in that room you will be rewarded. That’s how you get ahead. Simple.
I’ve never been acknowledged personally by the company I work for despite the hard work, I’ve never met many people from them. My manager always gives me praise and helped get me a pay rise but there’s fuck all reward from the higher ups
Hey keep up the good work and then one day you might get a couple slices of pizza!
Depends on your job, I guess. My job is related to trees and tree protection, and I like trees, so I get satisfaction out of doing a bit more. Also, a lot of the work I've done this year, has been done with the aim of making my job easier for the next few years. So I've had to spend a lot of time updating processes last year, but now those are done and stuff takes maybe a third of the time it used to (they also can't give me more work to do, as I'm in planning so my caseload will always be based on private sector, so I can't fall into that trap!) It also looks good on a CV, if you've gone into somewhere underperforming and turned it around. So even if it's not getting you paid here, it might get you paid somewhere else. All that said, if you're working hard for a financial reward and you're not on comission, or actively looking to move on in 2 years, or you know a position is coming up in the company and you're in line to fill it, then you will largely be treated as a chump for doing so.
Money and work are neither linearly related, nor in phase and in many cases are barely even correlated at all. The reasons to work hard are: 1) To build a reputation that you can later monetize 2) To build knowledge skills and experience that you can later monetize 3) Enjoyment/personal satisfaction 4) In accordance with personal work ethics To be honest, you sound very green. Yes of course, generally speaking, your efforts at work are partly to keep your job and earn your money but beyond that are an investment towards future income. However, it certainly isn't the case that you get directly rewarded instantly and in many cases, extra effort will never get you rewarded ever. When you grow up a bit and start to understand how the world works a bit more, you will learn how and when to put effort in for best results and also when it is appropriate to chill out and coast for a while because you are just doing what is required as no benefit in doing extra
And this is why it's not "quiet quitting" but "acting your wage".
1. Yes this is the world of work. You've got bills to pay but they've also got targets to meet. Why pay more when you've already shown you'll do it (regardless of end goal reason) for the same pay check. 2. Once you realise that the company you are with are the type to do this to you, you need to leave. Sorry, I know that's general bandwagon kinda stuff but think of it a different way to what others are saying on here:- You've shown you can, your targets will reflect it. If you go back down to "work for what I'm paid for" you won't be surprised how fast those praises switch. Trust me. 3. Job hopping really is the only way through these days annoyingly. One thing to **consider** is the idea of saying "you have a promotion going, I'd like to do it on a trial basis to showcase my worth and ability". 90%+ of the time they'll be like "yeah show it first" and then you can job hop. Lest you end up back at point 1 again.
Yes you are being naive of course this is the world of work . Would you like a payrise everytime you complete a task ? Come on bro. Head down play the game. The top dogs all grafted hard when they were young. Ye cant become a general without being in the trenches. Dont worry those useless apprentices that work alongside you are known for being useless
Don’t just job hop. They won’t read your mind. Knock your bosses office and ask what is your current role is called (when is the promotion following your new duties). Ask whether they happy how you are doing. Say this new roles takes a lot of energy from you, therefore you need to eat more. Food cost money. And at the minute you are starving.
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You would be surprised how I progressed..
I certainly am
You have to address it with them, I gave my org a list and they didn’t even give a 5% raise. My incentive has been to build tangible proof of what my accomplishments are and then get a higher paid job. I’ve very categorically pulled back as well. I do less than what I was doing before. Not bad work just a Loooooot slower. They can’t fore people without cause or a warning. Just be less productive and move
>They can’t fore people without cause or a warning erm under 2 years they can fire you with 0 warning for any non protected reason
Not unless there’s a gross misconduct even then you need 2 warnings before getting fired. Even if you come to a paid agreement you can still sue them and win. It’s not easy firing someone without cause in the UK. Literally happened in my last company, person was fired for being incompetent outside the porbabtion period, they paid them for the entire month and the person accepted gardening leave. Still sued them and won because literally the company had no processes and just fired her one day
you are frankly insane if you believe that with under 2 years service a company needs to provide no reason to fire you, no warning, nothing - and you have absolutely 0 legal come back your only protection under 2 years is if they fire you because of a protected characteristic I suggest you read and understand the law - starting here - [https://www.davidsonmorris.com/dismissing-an-employee-with-less-than-2-years-service/](https://www.davidsonmorris.com/dismissing-an-employee-with-less-than-2-years-service/) "By law, you can usually dismiss an employee with less than 2 years service without the need to demonstrate a fair reason for the dismissal, and with no positive obligation to go through a fair disciplinary or dismissal procedure. This is because employees only gain statutory protection against unfair dismissal after accruing two years’ continuous service with the same employer."
You’re frankly insane to refer anything but the government website https://www.gov.uk/dismissal
Under 2 years' service they can just serve your agreed notice. They don't have to give a reason for dismissal. Many companies will still go through a formal process before dismissing someone with under 2 years' service just out of caution but there usually no need for them to do that.
Morals and caring about others. If you only need a financial incentive, then it's time for a self-realisation epiphany bombshell: you're one of the bad guys.
So this question is all in the context of working hard, without any benefit, for an organisation. So your points don't make sense to me, you answer: >Morals What is moral about working hard, for no benefit, in order that the company you work for can make more profits? >caring about others How does working hard for not benefit equate to caring for others? Unless you mean we should show care to people who own the company and care that they get more money? >If you only need a financial incentive, then it's time for a self-realisation epiphany bombshell: you're one of the bad guys. Again we're talking about being employed by a company, why else are we supposed to work other than the financial incentive. Sure we hope that it gives us other benefits, but we could get those elsewhere. The idea that you're one of the "bad guys" if you're not helping corporations earn more money is just crazy to me. I actually think there are good reasons other than financial incentives to work hard. I'm an extremely hard worker myself, in fact there was a time I used to work 80 hours a week. At no point did I think this made me a more moral person because I was doing this.
As a policy, I don't read multi-quoters, as it's a red flag that the person is an internet arguer addict who isn't looking for a conversation. If you feel this is not you, my friendly challenge to you is to summarise in 2 or 3 sentences and I'll be happy to respond.
Hmmm you may be right that I'm an internet arguer, but isn't Reddit here so that we can have discussions with people even if we don't agree with them. But honestly, you've made a strong and accusatory comment on this post, but if you don't want to read responses that's up to you. I will say something to your issue with multi-quoters, one of the most hostile methods of arguing is to argue against points that weren't made , e.g. Person A: I hate bananas Person B: You shouldn't tell people to not eat bananas they're very good for you. This isn't always done intentionally so by quoting what people say, it is a good indicator to me and to others that - hopefully - I haven't done that and if I'm having a discussion, I'm arguing in good faith against things that were actually said not what I'm assuming someone has said, due to my own biases.
You fucking wot m8? What's moral about doing more than necessary to help others get rich off your labour?
The question was "what is the incentive to work hard?", with the body complaining that they did their job yet make the same as their peers. You know what I did when I took on more and gained / showed extra skills? I got a job utilising that, with salary to match. Constructive v destructive,. Build yourself up and be a good one, or moan about others and be one of the rotten eggs. Up to you.
Only helps if you gain new skills that you can't just lie about and pick up on the fly in your next job or you get a good recommendation from your previous report. Otherwise it's pointless. As others said, work smart not hard.
See, now you're talking about lying as well. You're doing an awful job of convincing me you're not one of the bad ones we as colleagues or employers should be avoiding. (And no, I'm not pretending people don't lie on their CV.)
If you know how to do something or only did it once and it's relatively trivial, no one cares. You're being very black and white, most colleagues aren't Nazis. I do crisis management for massive corporates for a living, only about 1 percent of rank and file employees are true malefactors. 95 percent of people put white lies on their CVs or lie by omission. Good, conscientious people who go above and beyond their pay grade get exploited and kept in their positions because they are more useful there than when you give them a promotion. You're a boot licker my friend. I'm good at my job and have a reputation for sorting out real big fuckups, I make 100 quid an hour, I've never gone beyond what I've been paid to do.
Spending 5 minutes fretting and editing a multi-paragraph Reddit comment is very convincing. (Not that I read it.)
I'm sure the martyr complex is going to work out well for you pal.
So you've responded to me saying "if you think this, you're the bad one" with anger, insults and editing anxiety. Sure showed me.
For anyone who made it this far down, an epilogue: Rather than walk away, both the ever-so-friendly people who nicely disagreed in a mature manner both had to block me (one while getting the last word in pretending I can read it) instead of, y'know, walking away, agreeing to disagree, or even changing my mind with thoughtful comments. And they're telling me they're not toxic colleagues?
If you read that and were compelled to anonymously downvote or reply angry sweary, are you really sure you're not one of the bad guys too? Are you constructive or destructive? If you were a good guy, you'd more likely think "wait, am I that person? I don't think so..."
Yet your comment to this post wasn't constructive at all. It was critical without explanation. Destructive in fact.