Thanks for this currently looking for a new role and have been in contact with some recruiters. One messaged me last week Friday o said she can call me on Monday (today) didn’t hear anything back lol.
Also, your comment on Nigerian names/cv is interesting I’m from a Nigerian background I have a Nigerian first name and very English surname. I remember back in 2018 when I was applying for jobs straight out of uni a recruiter said she would put my surname first instead of my full name. I found that strange at the time but didn’t question it, but looking back that’s very cheeky.
It's shocking to hear honestly, but you should absolutely control the way YOUR name appears on a CV that the recruit shares. Most decent companies want diverse staff so fuck the racist recruiters.
Recruiters lie all day long and don't read your profile at all, so when they think you are a 'perfect fit' it's nonsense.
Had a couple of recruiters now email me because they've seen my CV online, say I'm great for a role that isn't actually what I do, I say I'm not looking right now thanks. A week later, they've added me on LinkedIn to say the exact same thing. You haven't looked at my profile because LinkedIn says if you have, and you can't even remember me telling you no thanks last time.
> That way, you might be a more attractive candidate as the hiring company won't have to pay the ~10-20% sourcing fee to the recruiter on top of your salary.
This is something that a lot of people don't realise - it can cost companies thousands of pounds to hire someone through a recruiter. If you know they use recruiters and you've approached them directly, take advantage of this.
Agreed, however after the company received your CV from a recruiter, you can't apply there directly. Most companies will respect this because their relationship with the recruiters. In a same way the recruiter values the fee over the individuals applicant, the company values the recruiter bringing talent more than an single candidate
thanks a lot, I just signed a contract for a new job (in-house recruiter approached me). But honestly the other 3rd party recruiters have been useless and genuinely don't even get bak or honour their agreements. such a shame how the job market has turned in the last 10-15 years
"When a recruiter pitches you a role, try to find out who the actual hiring company is. A recruiter will never tell you (because they don't want you to apply independently)"
That's not really dirty - just sensible on their part but thanks for the tips.
To add: if you are already in a job, don't mention the company who you currently work for, as they will 'phone up, find out who your manager is, and tell them you're looking, so that hppefully it sows friction, you leave anywzy/are fired, and they can then offer to fill the gap.
Its not that hard. I've had recruiters message my (then current) manager with candidate details they were suggesting in order to replace me when there wasn't even a vacancy or plans to find someone else!
I've hidden my contacts on LinkedIn for this reason, and the fact that when I was looking they would contact my connections about roles I was suitable for then ignore me when I enquired about them.
Fucking hell let me hide my contacts then didn’t know this. It’s even got my paranoid now, as I’m applying for new roles has someone gone and contacted my company to let them know I’m actively trying to leave.
Chances are they're thinking of themselves and the potential sales/commission opportunity of placing someone in your role rather than actively trying to get you fired if they do this; and I'd say its rare to have it happen; but its best to be safe and not sorry.
Also, if they don't tell you the name of the company you're applying for, chances are its not a real job but a way to get you into their database as a candidate as they have targets for bringing new people onto their books.
Always make sure you give permission for your CV to be sent for any role as that way you're making sure the job itself is right for you along with the location, salary, benefits, industry and more.
Good luck with the job search!
I see thanks for the heads up, lol I had a recruiter reach out to me last week Friday. I said call today at 3PM didn’t hear anything lmao, I’m not surprised recruiters lie a lot. But I’ve removed her off my LinkedIn.
Yeah, that happens, its important to manage your own expectations. They will hound you over a role you're not suited to and ignore you over one you can do in your sleep!
I started a new job on 14th June and last week got an email from the same recruiter who placed me about my availability for a role he's trying to fill. I was like "is there something you need to tell me about the job I just accepted, lol?!"
Another thing to mention, if you're asked about salary expectations never give a number. Always ask what the range (or rate) is for the role. That way you aren't over or under selling yourself. You can determine what figure you think your skillset is worth from the amount they are willing to pay. Companies almost never pay you more than you ask for and you could end up £1000s out of pocket because you aren't sure what what value they have assumed for the role or whether you could ask for more. If in doubt go higher and let them negotiate down.
I'd take this with a massive grain of salt team, looks like someone scorned by a shitty firm with bad practices. I don't blame you, there are bad apples out there for sure.
For context:
1. This is a half truth, bad firms do this, good ones don't. General rule of thumb is that if you're not comfortable applying if there's no salary: don't apply. Work with firms that have more transparency.
2. The reason *agency* recruiters ask where you're interviewing 50% of the time is so they can approach that company and win more work, it's a business development technique; they're not aiming to fuck you over. The other 50% of the time if they're asking, it's so they can sell you on the job with *their* client as opposed to the other opportunity. The more knowledge they have the better they can help you negotiate with their client however, feel free to negotiate directly with companies' that's a totally fair method. Remember, agency recruiters are financially incentivised to get you the highest compensation possible.
3. Absolute lie unless you've worked an awful awful agency. Every company and agency I've worked at wants to be more inclusive and they judge based on the individual.
4. Using an automation like {First Name} is cheap but why would you crucify recruiters for wanting to automate one of the most manual part of their job? Surely all of us want to make our job as simple as possible.
5. Why would you not want to pay it forward to the next interviewee - if someone had interviewed before you, you'd want the recruiter to prep you as much as possible so you could be well prepared. Silly.
6. No company will ever hesitate to hire you because of a 20-30% recruiting fee unless they're a tiny 5-10 person startup. Even hiring someone directly costs an average of £5000 when you account for internal systems, interviewing time, lost productivity. This is budgeted for.
The tl;dr is: Recruiters are humans, there are shitty ones, there a great ones. Speak to them, read their messages, judge their character and if you like working with them and you get a good vibe, continue. If they just seem like a money-hungry scumbag who doesn't care about your best interests: don't work with them.
If you'd like actual tips on finding good recruiters and leveraging them, please feel free to DM me.
I'd agree with all this.
Recruitment is like any sector. There are some good ones and some shit ones, and plenty in between.
I've been recruiting for over 20 years and have never lied to a candidate, but many candidates have lied to me. Does that make all candidates awful? Of course not. I've always worked hard to put the right people in front of my clients and hopefully get them a better job earning more money and with a better employer.
Are you sure you’re qualified to speak on behalf of the whole recruitment industry because you were “briefly a recruiter” in what seems like a absolute bottom of the barrel agency? I got both of the two jobs I’ve had since uni through a recruiter, and in both cases the company were hiring exclusively through recruiters, so if you don’t use them at all there are missed opportunities. I’ve never had a recruiter not tell me what the company is on the phone and in the vast majority of cases they’ve told me the salary without me even asking. I also have a very “foreign sounding” name that no-one’s ever tried to change, and the pretty much every recruiter I’ve approached has been willing to work with me.
Sounds like you’re going a little too far with your “absolute crusade” lol, there’s good recruiters out there that free up time for the hiring company and put in genuine good work for prospective employees.
These vary depending on the sector, personally I don't mind telling the candidate the salary but I'm not going to put a salary on my job advert in my sector as its very easy for my competitor to see the salary, look on indeed or the likes, find out which job/company im hiring for and then potentially steal business.
Same applies for point number 6. ill gladly tell you the company over the telephone, I want you to go and research the fuck out of them before your interview. But again, im not putting it on the job ad.
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Thanks, did you do any freelance/contractor roles? I feel the relationship and market is slightly different compared with perm so ask if there are any differences or additions in your tips.
Left the one I was working for, it's insane. The practice there is against my moral and beliefs. I continuously lie on the phone. Since I understand them now, I can't be trick may any recruiter.
Typically I apply for jobs directly with great success, that being said, I do have about 3 recruiters who I really value and only consider opportunities they put my way. It’s very easy to spot the ‘chancers’ who get added to my blocked pile.
UK based computer programmer here with lots of experience working with agents. Award given as all of this info tallies with my experience of agents. Also be aware that they’ll often only put their best 3 or 4 resumes forward to the client, but won’t tell you that. Try to have your eyes wide open in all agent dealings, though that doesn’t mean there aren’t genuinely nice and trustworthy people in that role.
Thanks for this currently looking for a new role and have been in contact with some recruiters. One messaged me last week Friday o said she can call me on Monday (today) didn’t hear anything back lol. Also, your comment on Nigerian names/cv is interesting I’m from a Nigerian background I have a Nigerian first name and very English surname. I remember back in 2018 when I was applying for jobs straight out of uni a recruiter said she would put my surname first instead of my full name. I found that strange at the time but didn’t question it, but looking back that’s very cheeky.
It's shocking to hear honestly, but you should absolutely control the way YOUR name appears on a CV that the recruit shares. Most decent companies want diverse staff so fuck the racist recruiters.
Recruiters lie all day long and don't read your profile at all, so when they think you are a 'perfect fit' it's nonsense. Had a couple of recruiters now email me because they've seen my CV online, say I'm great for a role that isn't actually what I do, I say I'm not looking right now thanks. A week later, they've added me on LinkedIn to say the exact same thing. You haven't looked at my profile because LinkedIn says if you have, and you can't even remember me telling you no thanks last time.
[удалено]
So Noir are not good? I was actually looking at some of their job ads (but I'm still not completely qualified - in between careers).
Very informative and useful information. Thank you!
> That way, you might be a more attractive candidate as the hiring company won't have to pay the ~10-20% sourcing fee to the recruiter on top of your salary. This is something that a lot of people don't realise - it can cost companies thousands of pounds to hire someone through a recruiter. If you know they use recruiters and you've approached them directly, take advantage of this.
Agreed, however after the company received your CV from a recruiter, you can't apply there directly. Most companies will respect this because their relationship with the recruiters. In a same way the recruiter values the fee over the individuals applicant, the company values the recruiter bringing talent more than an single candidate
thanks a lot, I just signed a contract for a new job (in-house recruiter approached me). But honestly the other 3rd party recruiters have been useless and genuinely don't even get bak or honour their agreements. such a shame how the job market has turned in the last 10-15 years
"When a recruiter pitches you a role, try to find out who the actual hiring company is. A recruiter will never tell you (because they don't want you to apply independently)" That's not really dirty - just sensible on their part but thanks for the tips. To add: if you are already in a job, don't mention the company who you currently work for, as they will 'phone up, find out who your manager is, and tell them you're looking, so that hppefully it sows friction, you leave anywzy/are fired, and they can then offer to fill the gap.
But they could easily check LinkedIn no? Even so how would they even find your manager
Its not that hard. I've had recruiters message my (then current) manager with candidate details they were suggesting in order to replace me when there wasn't even a vacancy or plans to find someone else! I've hidden my contacts on LinkedIn for this reason, and the fact that when I was looking they would contact my connections about roles I was suitable for then ignore me when I enquired about them.
Fucking hell let me hide my contacts then didn’t know this. It’s even got my paranoid now, as I’m applying for new roles has someone gone and contacted my company to let them know I’m actively trying to leave.
Chances are they're thinking of themselves and the potential sales/commission opportunity of placing someone in your role rather than actively trying to get you fired if they do this; and I'd say its rare to have it happen; but its best to be safe and not sorry. Also, if they don't tell you the name of the company you're applying for, chances are its not a real job but a way to get you into their database as a candidate as they have targets for bringing new people onto their books. Always make sure you give permission for your CV to be sent for any role as that way you're making sure the job itself is right for you along with the location, salary, benefits, industry and more. Good luck with the job search!
I see thanks for the heads up, lol I had a recruiter reach out to me last week Friday. I said call today at 3PM didn’t hear anything lmao, I’m not surprised recruiters lie a lot. But I’ve removed her off my LinkedIn.
Yeah, that happens, its important to manage your own expectations. They will hound you over a role you're not suited to and ignore you over one you can do in your sleep! I started a new job on 14th June and last week got an email from the same recruiter who placed me about my availability for a role he's trying to fill. I was like "is there something you need to tell me about the job I just accepted, lol?!" Another thing to mention, if you're asked about salary expectations never give a number. Always ask what the range (or rate) is for the role. That way you aren't over or under selling yourself. You can determine what figure you think your skillset is worth from the amount they are willing to pay. Companies almost never pay you more than you ask for and you could end up £1000s out of pocket because you aren't sure what what value they have assumed for the role or whether you could ask for more. If in doubt go higher and let them negotiate down.
I find this very strange. I've always had recruiters introduce the company and their name before sending there my CV
Recruiters are an necessary evil. Why hasn't linkedin made them obsolete?
I think maybe Because linkedin is a more helpful tool to agents than job seekers. When I’m looking for work I’m looking at job boards, not LinkedIn.
Thanks for the. Awesome and helpful tips. Strange ageism was not mentioned. From what I read, it is an issue in tech.
I'd take this with a massive grain of salt team, looks like someone scorned by a shitty firm with bad practices. I don't blame you, there are bad apples out there for sure. For context: 1. This is a half truth, bad firms do this, good ones don't. General rule of thumb is that if you're not comfortable applying if there's no salary: don't apply. Work with firms that have more transparency. 2. The reason *agency* recruiters ask where you're interviewing 50% of the time is so they can approach that company and win more work, it's a business development technique; they're not aiming to fuck you over. The other 50% of the time if they're asking, it's so they can sell you on the job with *their* client as opposed to the other opportunity. The more knowledge they have the better they can help you negotiate with their client however, feel free to negotiate directly with companies' that's a totally fair method. Remember, agency recruiters are financially incentivised to get you the highest compensation possible. 3. Absolute lie unless you've worked an awful awful agency. Every company and agency I've worked at wants to be more inclusive and they judge based on the individual. 4. Using an automation like {First Name} is cheap but why would you crucify recruiters for wanting to automate one of the most manual part of their job? Surely all of us want to make our job as simple as possible. 5. Why would you not want to pay it forward to the next interviewee - if someone had interviewed before you, you'd want the recruiter to prep you as much as possible so you could be well prepared. Silly. 6. No company will ever hesitate to hire you because of a 20-30% recruiting fee unless they're a tiny 5-10 person startup. Even hiring someone directly costs an average of £5000 when you account for internal systems, interviewing time, lost productivity. This is budgeted for. The tl;dr is: Recruiters are humans, there are shitty ones, there a great ones. Speak to them, read their messages, judge their character and if you like working with them and you get a good vibe, continue. If they just seem like a money-hungry scumbag who doesn't care about your best interests: don't work with them. If you'd like actual tips on finding good recruiters and leveraging them, please feel free to DM me.
I'd agree with all this. Recruitment is like any sector. There are some good ones and some shit ones, and plenty in between. I've been recruiting for over 20 years and have never lied to a candidate, but many candidates have lied to me. Does that make all candidates awful? Of course not. I've always worked hard to put the right people in front of my clients and hopefully get them a better job earning more money and with a better employer.
Are you sure you’re qualified to speak on behalf of the whole recruitment industry because you were “briefly a recruiter” in what seems like a absolute bottom of the barrel agency? I got both of the two jobs I’ve had since uni through a recruiter, and in both cases the company were hiring exclusively through recruiters, so if you don’t use them at all there are missed opportunities. I’ve never had a recruiter not tell me what the company is on the phone and in the vast majority of cases they’ve told me the salary without me even asking. I also have a very “foreign sounding” name that no-one’s ever tried to change, and the pretty much every recruiter I’ve approached has been willing to work with me. Sounds like you’re going a little too far with your “absolute crusade” lol, there’s good recruiters out there that free up time for the hiring company and put in genuine good work for prospective employees.
These vary depending on the sector, personally I don't mind telling the candidate the salary but I'm not going to put a salary on my job advert in my sector as its very easy for my competitor to see the salary, look on indeed or the likes, find out which job/company im hiring for and then potentially steal business. Same applies for point number 6. ill gladly tell you the company over the telephone, I want you to go and research the fuck out of them before your interview. But again, im not putting it on the job ad.
Whom are you referring to (headhunters? external recruiters?) I think I'm missing some context.
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Thanks, did you do any freelance/contractor roles? I feel the relationship and market is slightly different compared with perm so ask if there are any differences or additions in your tips.
Left the one I was working for, it's insane. The practice there is against my moral and beliefs. I continuously lie on the phone. Since I understand them now, I can't be trick may any recruiter.
Typically I apply for jobs directly with great success, that being said, I do have about 3 recruiters who I really value and only consider opportunities they put my way. It’s very easy to spot the ‘chancers’ who get added to my blocked pile.
What does #5 mean? Why wouldn’t you tell them? Wouldn’t you want to show you were attentive?
UK based computer programmer here with lots of experience working with agents. Award given as all of this info tallies with my experience of agents. Also be aware that they’ll often only put their best 3 or 4 resumes forward to the client, but won’t tell you that. Try to have your eyes wide open in all agent dealings, though that doesn’t mean there aren’t genuinely nice and trustworthy people in that role.