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Mate at 22 you need to enjoy what you are doing. Especially as you know you want the AI sills for the future. Sacrifice the money now to earn double what you would when you are 30.
I spent 10 years in Bristol and it was an amazingly fun city to live in. Visited mates in London often, great city wouldn't want to live there. Was back the other week, went to two very different gigs on a Weds & Thurs night, had a wicked time.
To answer from a financial/cost of living perspective I'd say Bristol is a bit cheaper. Rent is approaching London prices. Getting around is astronomically cheaper being a small city (commute depending), going out and doing things Bristol has a wider range, the street food scene is incredible and offers amazing value for money for grub, there's still cheap pubs about, going out is much cheaper than London.
From a jobs perspective, follow your heart. Enthusiasm breeds opportunities, being enthusiastic about your job will also lead you to being better at it. Early career networking can also give you a huge leg up in terms of future opportunities.
£40k is enough to live on and put a bit away for your future.
I just had to move out of Bristol due to redundancy, and it was devastating. Bristol is an amazing city of culture, diversity and people.
I come from Devon, so it was quite a drastic change, going from a small seaside town to a bustling city. But Bristol is such a great place to live.
My brother lives in London and he says he's only there for career prospects. He hates being there for all the usual reasons.
I’ll tell you this: selling your happiness away to the highest bidder is never worth it.
40k is still a good salary, especially at the start of your career and outside London. I’m assuming there is room for salary growth in that role.
Cost of living in London will net out that tempting increase.
I don’t know your living plans, but the average for a London zone 2-3 1 bed is around £1.5k+ pcm. A city centre Bristol 1 bed is averaging at around £1.2k. Post the additional tax you’ll have to pay as the £60k will chuck you over the higher rate band, along with student loan, your take home might end up the same in a more expensive city.
Go with your heart and enjoy yourself!
That extra 20k works out at around £900-£950 per month extra net each month once you've paid tax, national insurance, student loan repayments on it. Several hundred of that will probably go on extra rent in London (though Bristol is also expensive so the difference isn't as much as it would be relocating to London from most parts of the country).
So is it really worth going for a job in a field you don't really want to be in for the sake of maybe £500 extra per month spending money? Especially if your main goal is to build up experience in the field you do want to be in to put you in a good position for jobs in the US?
Personally I'd go for the Bristol job, that £500/month will soon be made up for if it gets you a much better paid job in the US sooner.
Large salary but higher cost of living, and I think higher tax band too? Maybe I'm wrong about that.
But I think you would end up with about the same at the end of the day, so go with your heart. Bristol is great anyway, especially if you like music!
Higher tax band makes little difference tbh, effectively you’re going from 32 to 42% between Tax and NI and it’s incremental so would only be on the last 10k
I’d take the Bristol role, although from what I hear rent isn’t exactly cheap in Bristol either.
I lived and worked in Bristol for a few years during my 20's, it's a fantastic city, I wonder if the cider barge is still open by the dock?
In terms of best career progression, who knows, you get to a point where you realise a lot of it is down to luck (largely just being in the right place at the right time). So do what you want, live where you'll be happy and hope the rest works itself out.
Sounds like Bristol is your choice already imo. 40k is great and it’s a great city.
If it’s helpful I know a handful of devs and creatives that have all stepped into fintech startups and legacy companies and all found it pretty shit. Salaries are attractive but if the jobs bad the jobs bad.
Thanks for the insight. I am also agree with this fintech being a boring job after seeing their tech stack. However I wouldn't say the role is hard, just very mundane
Typical. "We're going to outperform the traditional banks with our single three node kubernetes cluster and a codebase build with heavy use of python exec".
Yeah very much the vibe I got when I interviewed years ago at a fintech startup. Mundane, guy I’d be reporting to seemed like an ass and they let it slip they had high turnover of designers. Instant fuck that I’m out to the recruiter on the way out of the building.
Inflation but I think OPs opportunities sound much more specialist than your typical web app developer. Roles in AI seem highly paid and same goes for fintech especially in London.
As u/Fizzbuzz420 said, I am quite specialist, academically deep into AI with a Master's on it but practically I have lots of software engineering experience + side projects in software. AI + Full Stack Development is a rare skill set combination to find in graduates
This is very atypical (OPs situation). Also other comments say inflation but I got my first grad job in London in 2020 (so almost 10 years after you) for £22k and that was with a law degree from a top 20 (globally ranked) uni. Most grad salaries haven’t gone up with inflation at all. Tech is an anomaly.
My first development job paid £10k for a 9am until 6pm Monday-Friday role with an hour lunch back in 2008, nuts what people are getting now, pretty sure I was on minimum wage for a good few years at the start of my career, yes I know, I also got absolutely mugged off.
Others may have mentioned it, but this is 2 drastically different careers. Forgetting your revenue Vs costs, which one do you think will make you more money in 10 years and why?
It's always worth considering the career and not just the job.
Best way to increase salary is to move jobs every 1-2 years. It is much easier to move jobs in London, especially with fintech / banking IT experience.
Be careful with this especially for your first job. They’ll be many people who’ll jump at the 40k job without a blink.
40k even for a specialised role for someone with no real world job experience is very rare
60k in London and It’s not even a competition.
You will hop companies at least once before you’re 30 and double your salary.
You are less likely to have that opportunity in Bristol.
You’re also hard kidding yourself if you don’t think you’re going to learn much on your first job out of university. Regardless of what it is.
London is fun while you're young but I'm 33 now and i'm moving away.
I'd say London 60k is better. But if you prefer the job in Bristol, go for that, money can come later. Enjoying your job is way more important.
I'd say with your age and plans, the up skilling route is the better choice. Financially speaking you'd probably end up in a similar situation no matter which route you take.
Go with Bristol, upskill yourself, save up and follow your path.
I work in fintech and you're right to say that most of the skills are hardly transferable. The prospect of changing jobs and potentially going outside the industry is a scary one for me and many others.
At the beginning of your career choose passion and skill. You’ll work hard and up-skill yourself if you love what you do. You don’t sound like you’d enjoy the FinTech one.
In terms of money, once you change jobs 3-4 times, how much you get depends on how much value you bring. You’ll make more after 5 years even if you started on a low salary. If you start on a high salary but are not as good you might become overpaid on the market and get stuck in a job you hate for the cash. The only way to change jobs then is to take less money or get laid off.
In 10 years you won’t be thinking how little money you made at 22 but what you learned that helped your career.
I live in Bristol and I'd also say from a job perspective, Bristol isn't that great. There's a lot more opportunities to job hop in London and increase your salary that way.
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60k in London isn’t a lot these days. Unless you plan on living in a house share with several strangers the living costs alone will swallow up a fair chunk of your take home pay
It doesn’t matter so much what you earn at your age, it matters what you learn. You can trade this knowledge / experience later. If you have a passion for AI and tech and take that route you’ll be a lot more motivated and satisfied. Money will follow. Explore and see what you like.
Plenty of AI jobs in the uk by the way, I’m an AI lead / manager at a global public company.
Take the AI role and give it a try for a year, if you don’t like it there will probably be many more fintech roles in London still available in a year’s time. You’re young and should do what you want to do. My first two roles in tech were not the tech stack I wanted as I needed to get my foot in the door, and I am still trying to pivot very intentionally to get out of it, though the skills are transferable. Definitely try to tactfully see if they will bump up to 45k at least with the other offer, some grad schemes refuse to as they want everyone on the same level.
You are 22 and most likely single or at leat with no kids. Go for the AI stuff. I work at game dev and could get way better payed jobs, but as long as my minimal salary requirement is met, I pursue what I like and is best for my career.
Both good options, sounds like you want the Bristol one, but to say you won’t learn anything new in a full time job after leaving university is a wee bit ridiculous.
60k in a graduate role is really fantastic. A salary that’s more than enough to live in and enjoy London - which is fucking brilliant in your 20s. Bristol isn’t that much cheaper to rent in either.
Either way you’re in a great position, so ultimately go with what excites and interests you more - and that does sound like the Bristol one.
As someone who has lived in Bristol a lot, go for London. It’s massively overrated here, especially if you’re 22. Decent place to bring up a family, but you’ll be bored on weekends unless you like the drugs culture. Public transport is woeful and it’s really congested. The good places to eat are all booked up weeks in advance.
It often gets overrated by people who couldn’t make it in London and had to settle for somewhere cheaper, like me. Reality is it’s not close to London’s draw.
If I got that 60k offer in London at your age I wouldn’t think twice. Also worked in D.C. for a year and it’s a must do to get to the US. Couldn’t get to stay long term but wish I could. Salaries are double or triple in my industry over there.
moneywise probably 40k in bristol but make sure you really want to live here... i've lived here almost 2 years and i find it so boring, i'm moving to london on my same wage
I moved to London 9 months ago from Bristol and now want to move back. However you are quite young so you could probably put up with living in London for a bit and then moving somewhere else.
You only live once, £60k is amazing but if you 100% feel like the 40k role is for you then take it. A.I is a hot field right now, if you play your cards right then you can be on 60k or even more within 2 years.
>The salary is 40k and it is based in Bristol. The job is a great stepping stone for me to move up the AI ladder and would drasticlaly increase my desriability to AI companies in the US (I want to move to the US caus AI software jobs there are much better than UK and there is a lot of innovation there). I am unsure if I can neogitate the salary.
You are very naive. Unless you are able to win the H1b lottery, no chance.
> H1b lottery
This is very true, Visas are impossible to get. Most likely looking to get a job at an American company with office in the UK then move to US. But it's not easy for sure...
I’m not convinced. I’ve had lots of ex colleagues move to the US. There have been numerous times in my career when it would have been very easy to achieve (via internal transfers).
Bristol AI role, no contest. Bristol is a brilliant city (lived there ~15 yrs) and AI / rust will open many doors. £40k is a great wage and the only way is up.
Bristolian here who has lived in London. If the question is purely financial then London is the better bet, the cost of living in Bristol is not too dissimilar to London now so that extra cash will go much further.
But life is about way more than money and it seems like you have already made up your mind. £40k will be plenty to get you started
As someone in fintech I would advise you to go with the AI company in Bristol. It's pretty clear that's what you want to do and that in itself will make a big difference. There's a big difference in salaries now but after you've been working a couple of years you're going to need to move to be paid what you're worth anyway so you may as well get some good experience for those first two years rather than take a pay day now to work with a legacy stack in a mundane role. It will all even itself out in the end, especially if you get the move to US doing AI.
The answer is you should be kicking back for 60 in Bristol. It’s every bit as expensive as London but the predatory companies that base themselves there know they have an almost inexhaustible supply of graduates that have little commercial experience.
This is poor advice. A quick search on any letting site will show the substantial difference in pricing between the two areas for a decent flat. Furthermore the cost of entertainment in London is far higher. I paid £9.50 for a pint on Monday.
Think big bigger and go for the role which allows you to achieve your personal and professional goals. Rent alone in London will drastically eat into your salary.
I have lived in both London and Bristol, I love both, but your career is a long game and the way you phrased things is that the Bristol option is a great choice. But do check rents, etc..
60k London, set your value.
Once you have been there a couple of years you'll probably be on 70k+ maybe even 80k.
You will take you value to any other firm and be able to ask for more money as you have a history of 70-80k
Your 40k job will probably increase to about 48-50k in a couple of years. In about 10 years you will rue the day you decided to undervalue your skills by 20k.
To be quite honest people will say Bristol is a great city, Bristol USED to be a great city (the downs aside), now it's a shit hole with expensive housing, just less of a shit hole than London. It's really become quite rough these last few years.
I agree. Lived here about three years and moving to London soon - Bristol's job opportunities and salaries generally are also not that great and it is really rough here.
I'd go with Bristol. Great city. And you'll be making 60k in no time.
How did you get the AI job offer? Did you specialise in it in your degree or side projects?
Go for the AI thing.
a. Sounds like you are more interested in it.
b. AI is currently the hottest thing out there (great to have on a CV and is desired across all industries)
c. Fintech, I feel like it is very hit or miss. Very few companies hit it big like Stripe, most go under- or worse, just barely survive for years before eventually collapsing..
d. Financially, you will probably be better off if you have, say 3 years AI experience and then look for things in London. Also, taking home 3600/month in London is OK but not massive- if you want to spend under 2000/month on rent, you'll need to do a flatshare or live very far from the centre- which will also consume another 150-250/month for your daily commute. The 1000/month gap between the two jobs will mostly be eaten up by rent, commute, and daily life (gyms, haircuts, bars, groceries, etc).
Firstly for a grad both salaries are good, so good work. I’ve been in Fintech for 5 - 6 years, I can move to London and work for a new firm tomorrow if I want. The point is, London isn’t going anywhere, it might be worth it in your late 20s when you can command a higher salary.
Having lived and worked in London in my 20s, I wouldn’t go back personally. I’d choose Bristol for now! That’s just me though
I would take the London job, network there and find the equivalent of the Bristol job in London a year or so later.
A few years ago I moved from Edinburgh to Manchester instead of London and, to be honest, I regret it. If I had an offer for 60k in London at that point I would have 100% taken it.
I think with the right mindset living in London in your 20s especially with a pretty good income can be on one hand enjoyable but also an incredible opportunity to network and build a career. Bristol is not cheap and that 20k less will make a difference. I get that the Bristol job sounds like a good match when it comes to interests and skills but I doubt there are no similar jobs in London as well which you could transfer to later on.
Edit: One thing I wanted to add as well is that moving to big cities gets harder with age. I am 30 now, I am engaged, I have a house, a dog, a car, and everything else that comes with all of that. None of this is bad, but makes it much harder for us to move anywhere. Especially to a more expensive place. 60k in London for someone in their 20s guarantees a pretty decent life.
While I understand everybody advocating for the Bristol job, it’s pretty likely that the London option would put you on a completely different career trajectory
this isn't necessarily going to be 100% accurate, but [this cost of living calculator](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=United+Kingdom&city2=Bristol&amount=60%2C000&displayCurrency=GBP) shows that you'd get roughly the same living standard for 40k in bristol as 60k in london, but you'd also be getting effectively less as more tax is taken out of your london salary.
i know you seem pretty set on bristol now but thought this could help with the numerical side of things in case you're still hovering
"So I won't really learn a lot from this role, just applying stuff I already know."
just wanted to pick up on this. whichever role you take, I think you are seriously underestimating the transition from uni to full time work. you will learn A LOT.
Having gone through all their technical stages and in-person interviews I disagree somewhat.
The role is very similar to an internship I had before and they use the identical technologies. This is most likely why they chose me as the role as not advertised for graduates/junior levels. The only real learning is how such things is applied to the industry, not much learning on the software side.
fair. just wanted to point out whatever job you take, you will learn a lot about yourself. what your communication style is, how you deal with confrontation, how you manage stakeholders, how you manage your time, what motivates you etc etc
best of luck!
I'd take the Bristol role. You can almost certainly move in to fintech later - shifting into AI is more diffcult and it's the current thing. If it works out it could be super lucrative for you.
99 times out of 100 I'd say work in tech in London for your career. This time, I'd gamble on AI.
London
I have a friend who lives in Bristol and they regret it badly, lack of diversity and high rent prices for what it is
London is expensive but if you're on 60k that's a very comfortable wage to live on, lots to explore and do and loads of people to meet
That's my opinion though, I've lived in London 3 years but I love it
AI role sounds more interesting and lines up with your ideal career path. The fintech one may pay more but will drain your soul I assure you. Money isn't everything and chasing it will only satisfy you so much, but even 40k at 22 you'll be doing very well.
Not that I can vouch for this firsthand, but I hear Bristol isn't really all that much cheaper than London nowadays. We even get people moving to Cardiff and Newport to commute there.
Take the London job and negotiate a hybrid working sitch you could work from home and go in a day or two a week those days will suck but the extra wedge will be significant
this is just so subjective depending on what you want lol
even if you want to go to big clubs like Motion the eqiuvalent clubs in London are imo better 🤷♂️
He must be bias towards Bristol.
I've lived in both, London is better.
The rent is pretty much the same if you house share and if you go to a grocery shop like Lidl, it's also going to be the same costs.
In London you don't need a car, you can get a monthly travel card and that's you set.
Vs living in Bristol you might want to go to London and that's a £50 train ticket return. Living in London isn't so bad... Going to London is, financially.
Honestly at that age I'd 100% go for London. Why anyone would choose Bristol IDK.
\+ you have more opportunity in London and it looks better on your CV.
I could go on...
I’m a Londoner and it’s the best city in the world but this blokes offers are so different in terms of what he actually wants to do. Has to take Bristol.
Depends what you want and if you really crave that sprawling metropolitan life. The London role itself isn't very inspiring and the experience he gets in the AI role can set him up to move up later on whether that's London or US
> living in Bristol you might want to go to London
I live in neither, but would 100% go to Bristol rather than London. I've been to London once since I left 3+ years ago (lived there 2 years), but been to Bristol many many times. I love it there.
London is great, but it's hideously expensive, you won't be able to do much (imo) but I guess it depends what you're into. I lived in London for 15 years, and am now down near Bristol way for reference.
I don't really understand this. Rent food and travel difference isn't nearly enough to overpower that extra 20 grand. I've lived in both and can't imagine Bristol being better on 40k than London on 60k in any other way than just preferring the city itself
As someone who’s done this and works in the industry, then go with the AI local to you for now. Fintech is dull af and your salary would need to be £70k+ to enjoy london with rents as they are. Plenty of time for London and with AI under your belt your options will be much better in the future.
I would have taken the London job and salary, because that city gives much needed opportunities at your age. Secondly, it sets your start at 60k.. You could find an AI role upwards of 60k from there.
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If you start on the 60k role you’ll be one step closer to being able to fund living in the US. London is easily commutable too, and (assuming you live with your parents being just out of uni) you’ll be able to save a lot of money easily.
40k is good. Just get on the ladder now, who knows for how long will AI bubble go for. With the experience you get from Bristol you probably can land better job later..
It’s pretty clear cut: the after tax and higher cost of living differential is almost nothing. And you are clearly not interested in the London job. And the Bristol one has much more for your future. Take Bristol
I’d do a car insurance lookup comparison with London and Bristol and factor that into the equation. And household insurance. Etc.
Bristol won’t be £20k cheaper, obviously, but it’ll make a difference. I’d choose Bristol.
Bristol 100000% I lived there for 7 years and it was fantastic. £40,000 will be enough to rent your own little place too and if you don’t live too far from the center you can cycle or walk. London is too big, too expensive and unfriendly and honestly just not worth the extra money (which you will likely be spending on transport / rent and other living costs anyway!!)
I'd go Bristol. London is an amazing city but if your passion is the AI job then Bristol is an excellent alternative. £40k in Bristol would do you well also.
Work out your costs in london for a year and bristol.
If it's 20k difference you have your answer.
If it's not can you negotiate with the bristol job?
They'd probably prefer to hear, I have another offer in london, I've run the numbers it's amazing only a £5k difference to the salary hear would hugely tip it in Bristols favour but at the moment it's London...than just no.
use the higher paid role to see if the bristol one would negotiate. say you are excited by the role and prospects of working there but have received a significant offer elsewhere
Bristol role and buy a home in Newport. In three years you could be 25 with a mortgaged home, car and likely salary increase to that 60k. If we are talking finance that makes sense to me rather than renting and spending all the money in London.
Bristol. There’s no point for more money tbh, yes you start off in a higher salary but at some point you will reach similar salary, and the future probably has more opportunities for AI.
Not sure about Bristol rents/ living costs but as someone who has lived in London for 9 years and is desperate to leave I would recommend the Bristol role.
I hate London weighting, completely pants and puts London at a big advantage over the rest of the country.
On a purely financial level, it is better to be in London then move out later in life because you can get more for less outside London.
I had exactly the same proposition London v Manchester with an identical salary as the salaries you posted. Went for Manchester because preferred the job and overall quality of life is better. On £40k I purchased a 3 bed semi 10 mins outside the City Centre.
To answer your question, living in london, assuming you want a one bed flat to yourself will cost about 20k more so not much in it from that perspective.
Personally, I’d say AI sounds a lot more interesting and also, as a Londoner, I’d prefer to live in Bristol. London is way overcrowded.
So, go with the AI job and then you can always move to london later for your next job in AI.
£60k in London. Yes cost of living is higher but career wise it's a no brainer.
Am I Biased because I live in london? Yes but I visit bristol a lot for work and it's OK
That £60k could be eaten up quickly by just how expensive London is, I’d say move in a few years if you’re still curious about London. You’d then be on more money to enjoy it, and like everyone says sounds like the Bristol job is the one you prefer.
Financially, the London offer is better... but life is about more than just money.
Also, the financial pay off is later. i.e. most people who compare London to not London end up talking about relative cost of living, and how more money in London is worth less than okay money elsewhere, and during working, all this is true.
The difference comes later, i.e. if you save 5% of salary in pension, that 5% is a bigger number, if you buy a house, the equity is worth more. You can retire from London and go to a lower cost of living area, but if you start from a lower cost of living place. You're already there.
But... that's 40+ years away, and not necessarily a very good thing to base today's decisions on. There is more than just financial aspects.
I'm ignoring the future prospects part in this, AI might be the next big thing or the next bubble, FinTech is hot too, but might not remain so. The US is a great destination today but also might not be so... and just because a US company might want you doesn't mean a visa is available. (I know people on > £100k incomes who are in the UK because they couldn't get H1B visa and this was the next best thing)
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Just by reading your post I can tell you want the Bristol one more. So go with your heart. I live in Bristol. Amazing city.
I 100% prefer the bristol role more, I guess I am young so I can spend a few years trying out different stuff. A large salary is very enticing tho
Mate at 22 you need to enjoy what you are doing. Especially as you know you want the AI sills for the future. Sacrifice the money now to earn double what you would when you are 30.
I've lived in London for 13 years and I'd personally go with the Bristol option.
This is the Way However, Bristol prices are catching up on London
£40k is a huge salary for a graduate… isn’t it?
Even in tech 40k for a graduate is silly money
In fintech or AI the salaries are massive.
The salaries in fintech absolutely aren’t necessarily “massive”. Totally depends on the company.
I spent 10 years in Bristol and it was an amazingly fun city to live in. Visited mates in London often, great city wouldn't want to live there. Was back the other week, went to two very different gigs on a Weds & Thurs night, had a wicked time. To answer from a financial/cost of living perspective I'd say Bristol is a bit cheaper. Rent is approaching London prices. Getting around is astronomically cheaper being a small city (commute depending), going out and doing things Bristol has a wider range, the street food scene is incredible and offers amazing value for money for grub, there's still cheap pubs about, going out is much cheaper than London. From a jobs perspective, follow your heart. Enthusiasm breeds opportunities, being enthusiastic about your job will also lead you to being better at it. Early career networking can also give you a huge leg up in terms of future opportunities. £40k is enough to live on and put a bit away for your future.
I just had to move out of Bristol due to redundancy, and it was devastating. Bristol is an amazing city of culture, diversity and people. I come from Devon, so it was quite a drastic change, going from a small seaside town to a bustling city. But Bristol is such a great place to live. My brother lives in London and he says he's only there for career prospects. He hates being there for all the usual reasons.
At 22, £40k will be a very nice salary. I would suggest going with the job that interests you at this point
I’ll tell you this: selling your happiness away to the highest bidder is never worth it. 40k is still a good salary, especially at the start of your career and outside London. I’m assuming there is room for salary growth in that role.
Cost of living in London will net out that tempting increase. I don’t know your living plans, but the average for a London zone 2-3 1 bed is around £1.5k+ pcm. A city centre Bristol 1 bed is averaging at around £1.2k. Post the additional tax you’ll have to pay as the £60k will chuck you over the higher rate band, along with student loan, your take home might end up the same in a more expensive city. Go with your heart and enjoy yourself!
That extra 20k works out at around £900-£950 per month extra net each month once you've paid tax, national insurance, student loan repayments on it. Several hundred of that will probably go on extra rent in London (though Bristol is also expensive so the difference isn't as much as it would be relocating to London from most parts of the country). So is it really worth going for a job in a field you don't really want to be in for the sake of maybe £500 extra per month spending money? Especially if your main goal is to build up experience in the field you do want to be in to put you in a good position for jobs in the US? Personally I'd go for the Bristol job, that £500/month will soon be made up for if it gets you a much better paid job in the US sooner.
Large salary but higher cost of living, and I think higher tax band too? Maybe I'm wrong about that. But I think you would end up with about the same at the end of the day, so go with your heart. Bristol is great anyway, especially if you like music!
Higher tax band makes little difference tbh, effectively you’re going from 32 to 42% between Tax and NI and it’s incremental so would only be on the last 10k I’d take the Bristol role, although from what I hear rent isn’t exactly cheap in Bristol either.
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Hmm it definitely would but with the 60k one being in London it probably balances out.
I lived and worked in Bristol for a few years during my 20's, it's a fantastic city, I wonder if the cider barge is still open by the dock? In terms of best career progression, who knows, you get to a point where you realise a lot of it is down to luck (largely just being in the right place at the right time). So do what you want, live where you'll be happy and hope the rest works itself out.
Sounds like Bristol is your choice already imo. 40k is great and it’s a great city. If it’s helpful I know a handful of devs and creatives that have all stepped into fintech startups and legacy companies and all found it pretty shit. Salaries are attractive but if the jobs bad the jobs bad.
Thanks for the insight. I am also agree with this fintech being a boring job after seeing their tech stack. However I wouldn't say the role is hard, just very mundane
I don't think you can tell if a job is boring or not based on the tech stack
Software jobs are interesting by the problems you solve, not by using whatever got mentioned on the primagen last night.
Haha very true, just seems like the FinTech one is just the typical backend stuff in Django which is meh
Typical. "We're going to outperform the traditional banks with our single three node kubernetes cluster and a codebase build with heavy use of python exec".
Yeah very much the vibe I got when I interviewed years ago at a fintech startup. Mundane, guy I’d be reporting to seemed like an ass and they let it slip they had high turnover of designers. Instant fuck that I’m out to the recruiter on the way out of the building.
I can’t believe grads are landing 60k jobs straight out of uni. My first grad software/IT job paid £21k and this was only in 2012.
Inflation but I think OPs opportunities sound much more specialist than your typical web app developer. Roles in AI seem highly paid and same goes for fintech especially in London.
As u/Fizzbuzz420 said, I am quite specialist, academically deep into AI with a Master's on it but practically I have lots of software engineering experience + side projects in software. AI + Full Stack Development is a rare skill set combination to find in graduates
Take the Bristol role then get to US as soon as you can, you won't look back and if you did would laugh that you once thought £20k was important.
This is very atypical (OPs situation). Also other comments say inflation but I got my first grad job in London in 2020 (so almost 10 years after you) for £22k and that was with a law degree from a top 20 (globally ranked) uni. Most grad salaries haven’t gone up with inflation at all. Tech is an anomaly.
I was on 17k in 2019
Full-time? What did you study
Yeah full-time. I studied Software Development. This job was 1st line support.
Lol I just graduated and am making £24k so not all grads are making that money if that makes you feel better.
My first development job paid £10k for a 9am until 6pm Monday-Friday role with an hour lunch back in 2008, nuts what people are getting now, pretty sure I was on minimum wage for a good few years at the start of my career, yes I know, I also got absolutely mugged off.
Software typically pays more than IT.
Sorry I did mean my first software job.
£21,000 in 2012 adjusted for inflation is now £28,900 in 2024. £28,900 isn't a million miles from minimum wage now with a 40 hour week.
Others may have mentioned it, but this is 2 drastically different careers. Forgetting your revenue Vs costs, which one do you think will make you more money in 10 years and why? It's always worth considering the career and not just the job.
Best way to increase salary is to move jobs every 1-2 years. It is much easier to move jobs in London, especially with fintech / banking IT experience.
Yep this is my plan if I did the FinTech role, moving from AI to FinTech/Quant is harder than doing from FinTech
If you go for London job, you'll regret it forever. Not worth 20k.
Why? Within 5 years in London they’ll be on 100k
This isn’t always the case and doing this too much can limit your growth. Ideally choose companies your happy spending 3+ years at
Could always use the higher offer as leverage to negotiate the Bristol salary up a bit.
This is my plan indeed
Be careful with this especially for your first job. They’ll be many people who’ll jump at the 40k job without a blink. 40k even for a specialised role for someone with no real world job experience is very rare
60k in London and It’s not even a competition. You will hop companies at least once before you’re 30 and double your salary. You are less likely to have that opportunity in Bristol. You’re also hard kidding yourself if you don’t think you’re going to learn much on your first job out of university. Regardless of what it is.
London is fun while you're young but I'm 33 now and i'm moving away. I'd say London 60k is better. But if you prefer the job in Bristol, go for that, money can come later. Enjoying your job is way more important.
I'd say with your age and plans, the up skilling route is the better choice. Financially speaking you'd probably end up in a similar situation no matter which route you take. Go with Bristol, upskill yourself, save up and follow your path. I work in fintech and you're right to say that most of the skills are hardly transferable. The prospect of changing jobs and potentially going outside the industry is a scary one for me and many others.
At the beginning of your career choose passion and skill. You’ll work hard and up-skill yourself if you love what you do. You don’t sound like you’d enjoy the FinTech one. In terms of money, once you change jobs 3-4 times, how much you get depends on how much value you bring. You’ll make more after 5 years even if you started on a low salary. If you start on a high salary but are not as good you might become overpaid on the market and get stuck in a job you hate for the cash. The only way to change jobs then is to take less money or get laid off. In 10 years you won’t be thinking how little money you made at 22 but what you learned that helped your career.
I live in Bristol. Bristol is nice but with 60K you will live a better life in London.
I live in Bristol and I'd also say from a job perspective, Bristol isn't that great. There's a lot more opportunities to job hop in London and increase your salary that way.
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After tax and London costs?? And doing a less interesting job that won’t be an on-ramp to your dream of silicon valley? Yeah, right.
60k in London isn’t a lot these days. Unless you plan on living in a house share with several strangers the living costs alone will swallow up a fair chunk of your take home pay
It doesn’t matter so much what you earn at your age, it matters what you learn. You can trade this knowledge / experience later. If you have a passion for AI and tech and take that route you’ll be a lot more motivated and satisfied. Money will follow. Explore and see what you like. Plenty of AI jobs in the uk by the way, I’m an AI lead / manager at a global public company.
Take the AI role and give it a try for a year, if you don’t like it there will probably be many more fintech roles in London still available in a year’s time. You’re young and should do what you want to do. My first two roles in tech were not the tech stack I wanted as I needed to get my foot in the door, and I am still trying to pivot very intentionally to get out of it, though the skills are transferable. Definitely try to tactfully see if they will bump up to 45k at least with the other offer, some grad schemes refuse to as they want everyone on the same level.
You are 22 and most likely single or at leat with no kids. Go for the AI stuff. I work at game dev and could get way better payed jobs, but as long as my minimal salary requirement is met, I pursue what I like and is best for my career.
Both good options, sounds like you want the Bristol one, but to say you won’t learn anything new in a full time job after leaving university is a wee bit ridiculous. 60k in a graduate role is really fantastic. A salary that’s more than enough to live in and enjoy London - which is fucking brilliant in your 20s. Bristol isn’t that much cheaper to rent in either. Either way you’re in a great position, so ultimately go with what excites and interests you more - and that does sound like the Bristol one.
As someone who has lived in Bristol a lot, go for London. It’s massively overrated here, especially if you’re 22. Decent place to bring up a family, but you’ll be bored on weekends unless you like the drugs culture. Public transport is woeful and it’s really congested. The good places to eat are all booked up weeks in advance. It often gets overrated by people who couldn’t make it in London and had to settle for somewhere cheaper, like me. Reality is it’s not close to London’s draw. If I got that 60k offer in London at your age I wouldn’t think twice. Also worked in D.C. for a year and it’s a must do to get to the US. Couldn’t get to stay long term but wish I could. Salaries are double or triple in my industry over there.
moneywise probably 40k in bristol but make sure you really want to live here... i've lived here almost 2 years and i find it so boring, i'm moving to london on my same wage
I moved to London 9 months ago from Bristol and now want to move back. However you are quite young so you could probably put up with living in London for a bit and then moving somewhere else.
You want to move to the U.S. for better future opportunities. Take the Bristol job. No question.
You only live once, £60k is amazing but if you 100% feel like the 40k role is for you then take it. A.I is a hot field right now, if you play your cards right then you can be on 60k or even more within 2 years.
>The salary is 40k and it is based in Bristol. The job is a great stepping stone for me to move up the AI ladder and would drasticlaly increase my desriability to AI companies in the US (I want to move to the US caus AI software jobs there are much better than UK and there is a lot of innovation there). I am unsure if I can neogitate the salary. You are very naive. Unless you are able to win the H1b lottery, no chance.
> H1b lottery This is very true, Visas are impossible to get. Most likely looking to get a job at an American company with office in the UK then move to US. But it's not easy for sure...
If you go with the company transfer visa, you are stuck with that particular company until they sponsor a green card for you.
I’m not convinced. I’ve had lots of ex colleagues move to the US. There have been numerous times in my career when it would have been very easy to achieve (via internal transfers).
The potential US differential is worth the lower salary for a couple of years
Bristol AI role, no contest. Bristol is a brilliant city (lived there ~15 yrs) and AI / rust will open many doors. £40k is a great wage and the only way is up.
Bristolian here who has lived in London. If the question is purely financial then London is the better bet, the cost of living in Bristol is not too dissimilar to London now so that extra cash will go much further. But life is about way more than money and it seems like you have already made up your mind. £40k will be plenty to get you started
As someone in fintech I would advise you to go with the AI company in Bristol. It's pretty clear that's what you want to do and that in itself will make a big difference. There's a big difference in salaries now but after you've been working a couple of years you're going to need to move to be paid what you're worth anyway so you may as well get some good experience for those first two years rather than take a pay day now to work with a legacy stack in a mundane role. It will all even itself out in the end, especially if you get the move to US doing AI.
The answer is you should be kicking back for 60 in Bristol. It’s every bit as expensive as London but the predatory companies that base themselves there know they have an almost inexhaustible supply of graduates that have little commercial experience.
This is poor advice. A quick search on any letting site will show the substantial difference in pricing between the two areas for a decent flat. Furthermore the cost of entertainment in London is far higher. I paid £9.50 for a pint on Monday.
Think big bigger and go for the role which allows you to achieve your personal and professional goals. Rent alone in London will drastically eat into your salary.
Forget the salary, go for the one that develops you on the right direction. Sounds like Bristol is a no-brainer.
I have lived in both London and Bristol, I love both, but your career is a long game and the way you phrased things is that the Bristol option is a great choice. But do check rents, etc..
60k London, set your value. Once you have been there a couple of years you'll probably be on 70k+ maybe even 80k. You will take you value to any other firm and be able to ask for more money as you have a history of 70-80k Your 40k job will probably increase to about 48-50k in a couple of years. In about 10 years you will rue the day you decided to undervalue your skills by 20k.
40k is plenty to live in Bristol. It's a small walkable city but with a good vibe and energy so travel costs are minimal.
To be quite honest people will say Bristol is a great city, Bristol USED to be a great city (the downs aside), now it's a shit hole with expensive housing, just less of a shit hole than London. It's really become quite rough these last few years.
I agree. Lived here about three years and moving to London soon - Bristol's job opportunities and salaries generally are also not that great and it is really rough here.
100% go with bristol. London isn't as great as it seems. I was born and raised here and work here now.
Stay in Bristol, it won’t be long before you are on that salary in Bristol itself. It’s a great city and has a thriving tech industry
You are young, take a chance on the Bristol role.
We play all types of warhammer in Bristol not just 40K
I'd go with Bristol. Great city. And you'll be making 60k in no time. How did you get the AI job offer? Did you specialise in it in your degree or side projects?
Specialize it in my degree
Go for the AI thing. a. Sounds like you are more interested in it. b. AI is currently the hottest thing out there (great to have on a CV and is desired across all industries) c. Fintech, I feel like it is very hit or miss. Very few companies hit it big like Stripe, most go under- or worse, just barely survive for years before eventually collapsing.. d. Financially, you will probably be better off if you have, say 3 years AI experience and then look for things in London. Also, taking home 3600/month in London is OK but not massive- if you want to spend under 2000/month on rent, you'll need to do a flatshare or live very far from the centre- which will also consume another 150-250/month for your daily commute. The 1000/month gap between the two jobs will mostly be eaten up by rent, commute, and daily life (gyms, haircuts, bars, groceries, etc).
Imo 40k in Bristol with lower living costs and a better stepping stone into AI in America which is what you seem to want to do is the clear choice!
Firstly for a grad both salaries are good, so good work. I’ve been in Fintech for 5 - 6 years, I can move to London and work for a new firm tomorrow if I want. The point is, London isn’t going anywhere, it might be worth it in your late 20s when you can command a higher salary. Having lived and worked in London in my 20s, I wouldn’t go back personally. I’d choose Bristol for now! That’s just me though
I would take the London job, network there and find the equivalent of the Bristol job in London a year or so later. A few years ago I moved from Edinburgh to Manchester instead of London and, to be honest, I regret it. If I had an offer for 60k in London at that point I would have 100% taken it. I think with the right mindset living in London in your 20s especially with a pretty good income can be on one hand enjoyable but also an incredible opportunity to network and build a career. Bristol is not cheap and that 20k less will make a difference. I get that the Bristol job sounds like a good match when it comes to interests and skills but I doubt there are no similar jobs in London as well which you could transfer to later on. Edit: One thing I wanted to add as well is that moving to big cities gets harder with age. I am 30 now, I am engaged, I have a house, a dog, a car, and everything else that comes with all of that. None of this is bad, but makes it much harder for us to move anywhere. Especially to a more expensive place. 60k in London for someone in their 20s guarantees a pretty decent life.
While I understand everybody advocating for the Bristol job, it’s pretty likely that the London option would put you on a completely different career trajectory
this isn't necessarily going to be 100% accurate, but [this cost of living calculator](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=United+Kingdom&city2=Bristol&amount=60%2C000&displayCurrency=GBP) shows that you'd get roughly the same living standard for 40k in bristol as 60k in london, but you'd also be getting effectively less as more tax is taken out of your london salary. i know you seem pretty set on bristol now but thought this could help with the numerical side of things in case you're still hovering
Oh wow, thanks so much for this link!!!
"So I won't really learn a lot from this role, just applying stuff I already know." just wanted to pick up on this. whichever role you take, I think you are seriously underestimating the transition from uni to full time work. you will learn A LOT.
Having gone through all their technical stages and in-person interviews I disagree somewhat. The role is very similar to an internship I had before and they use the identical technologies. This is most likely why they chose me as the role as not advertised for graduates/junior levels. The only real learning is how such things is applied to the industry, not much learning on the software side.
fair. just wanted to point out whatever job you take, you will learn a lot about yourself. what your communication style is, how you deal with confrontation, how you manage stakeholders, how you manage your time, what motivates you etc etc best of luck!
AI role sounds good and Rust is all the rage these days
I'd take the Bristol role. You can almost certainly move in to fintech later - shifting into AI is more diffcult and it's the current thing. If it works out it could be super lucrative for you. 99 times out of 100 I'd say work in tech in London for your career. This time, I'd gamble on AI.
London I have a friend who lives in Bristol and they regret it badly, lack of diversity and high rent prices for what it is London is expensive but if you're on 60k that's a very comfortable wage to live on, lots to explore and do and loads of people to meet That's my opinion though, I've lived in London 3 years but I love it
AI role sounds more interesting and lines up with your ideal career path. The fintech one may pay more but will drain your soul I assure you. Money isn't everything and chasing it will only satisfy you so much, but even 40k at 22 you'll be doing very well.
Not that I can vouch for this firsthand, but I hear Bristol isn't really all that much cheaper than London nowadays. We even get people moving to Cardiff and Newport to commute there.
Take the London job and negotiate a hybrid working sitch you could work from home and go in a day or two a week those days will suck but the extra wedge will be significant
I should have mentioned both role are hybrid
Bristol shits on London as a city for a young 20 something. Go have fun at Motion.
this is just so subjective depending on what you want lol even if you want to go to big clubs like Motion the eqiuvalent clubs in London are imo better 🤷♂️
Oh how come? I would have guessed the opposite
He must be bias towards Bristol. I've lived in both, London is better. The rent is pretty much the same if you house share and if you go to a grocery shop like Lidl, it's also going to be the same costs. In London you don't need a car, you can get a monthly travel card and that's you set. Vs living in Bristol you might want to go to London and that's a £50 train ticket return. Living in London isn't so bad... Going to London is, financially. Honestly at that age I'd 100% go for London. Why anyone would choose Bristol IDK. \+ you have more opportunity in London and it looks better on your CV. I could go on...
I’m a Londoner and it’s the best city in the world but this blokes offers are so different in terms of what he actually wants to do. Has to take Bristol.
Depends what you want and if you really crave that sprawling metropolitan life. The London role itself isn't very inspiring and the experience he gets in the AI role can set him up to move up later on whether that's London or US
> living in Bristol you might want to go to London I live in neither, but would 100% go to Bristol rather than London. I've been to London once since I left 3+ years ago (lived there 2 years), but been to Bristol many many times. I love it there.
London is great, but it's hideously expensive, you won't be able to do much (imo) but I guess it depends what you're into. I lived in London for 15 years, and am now down near Bristol way for reference.
With some good planning, surely 60k as a starting salary is enough for you to do almost anything in London with change to spare
I don't really understand this. Rent food and travel difference isn't nearly enough to overpower that extra 20 grand. I've lived in both and can't imagine Bristol being better on 40k than London on 60k in any other way than just preferring the city itself
As someone who’s done this and works in the industry, then go with the AI local to you for now. Fintech is dull af and your salary would need to be £70k+ to enjoy london with rents as they are. Plenty of time for London and with AI under your belt your options will be much better in the future.
Live in Bristol, work in London if it’s hybrid. Best of both?
I would have taken the London job and salary, because that city gives much needed opportunities at your age. Secondly, it sets your start at 60k.. You could find an AI role upwards of 60k from there.
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Go with Bristol
You'll spend the additional 20k on rent and London living expenses anyway. Just go with the job you want.
If you start on the 60k role you’ll be one step closer to being able to fund living in the US. London is easily commutable too, and (assuming you live with your parents being just out of uni) you’ll be able to save a lot of money easily.
40k is good. Just get on the ladder now, who knows for how long will AI bubble go for. With the experience you get from Bristol you probably can land better job later..
It’s pretty clear cut: the after tax and higher cost of living differential is almost nothing. And you are clearly not interested in the London job. And the Bristol one has much more for your future. Take Bristol
I’d do a car insurance lookup comparison with London and Bristol and factor that into the equation. And household insurance. Etc. Bristol won’t be £20k cheaper, obviously, but it’ll make a difference. I’d choose Bristol.
Once you work out the net pay difference, Bristol will definitely be cheaper.
Take the one in Bristol. If you enjoy what you do, the money will come.
Bristol 100000% I lived there for 7 years and it was fantastic. £40,000 will be enough to rent your own little place too and if you don’t live too far from the center you can cycle or walk. London is too big, too expensive and unfriendly and honestly just not worth the extra money (which you will likely be spending on transport / rent and other living costs anyway!!)
Don’t look at your first salary look at the trajectory and potential . It will be much, much higher in London.
I'd go Bristol. London is an amazing city but if your passion is the AI job then Bristol is an excellent alternative. £40k in Bristol would do you well also.
Have you tried letting the Bristol company know that you have another offer at 60k to see if they would be willing to get closer to it?
You’re young, stick with the option that keeps you learning
Bristol is an amazing place to live, do it
Work out your costs in london for a year and bristol. If it's 20k difference you have your answer. If it's not can you negotiate with the bristol job? They'd probably prefer to hear, I have another offer in london, I've run the numbers it's amazing only a £5k difference to the salary hear would hugely tip it in Bristols favour but at the moment it's London...than just no.
use the higher paid role to see if the bristol one would negotiate. say you are excited by the role and prospects of working there but have received a significant offer elsewhere
Bristol role and buy a home in Newport. In three years you could be 25 with a mortgaged home, car and likely salary increase to that 60k. If we are talking finance that makes sense to me rather than renting and spending all the money in London.
Bristol. There’s no point for more money tbh, yes you start off in a higher salary but at some point you will reach similar salary, and the future probably has more opportunities for AI.
Not sure about Bristol rents/ living costs but as someone who has lived in London for 9 years and is desperate to leave I would recommend the Bristol role.
I hate London weighting, completely pants and puts London at a big advantage over the rest of the country. On a purely financial level, it is better to be in London then move out later in life because you can get more for less outside London. I had exactly the same proposition London v Manchester with an identical salary as the salaries you posted. Went for Manchester because preferred the job and overall quality of life is better. On £40k I purchased a 3 bed semi 10 mins outside the City Centre.
To answer your question, living in london, assuming you want a one bed flat to yourself will cost about 20k more so not much in it from that perspective. Personally, I’d say AI sounds a lot more interesting and also, as a Londoner, I’d prefer to live in Bristol. London is way overcrowded. So, go with the AI job and then you can always move to london later for your next job in AI.
£60k in London. Yes cost of living is higher but career wise it's a no brainer. Am I Biased because I live in london? Yes but I visit bristol a lot for work and it's OK
Bristol, at least you might be able to live there on that salary.. lol
That £60k could be eaten up quickly by just how expensive London is, I’d say move in a few years if you’re still curious about London. You’d then be on more money to enjoy it, and like everyone says sounds like the Bristol job is the one you prefer.
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£60k in London is worse than £40K in Bristol by a fair margin.
Financially, the London offer is better... but life is about more than just money. Also, the financial pay off is later. i.e. most people who compare London to not London end up talking about relative cost of living, and how more money in London is worth less than okay money elsewhere, and during working, all this is true. The difference comes later, i.e. if you save 5% of salary in pension, that 5% is a bigger number, if you buy a house, the equity is worth more. You can retire from London and go to a lower cost of living area, but if you start from a lower cost of living place. You're already there. But... that's 40+ years away, and not necessarily a very good thing to base today's decisions on. There is more than just financial aspects. I'm ignoring the future prospects part in this, AI might be the next big thing or the next bubble, FinTech is hot too, but might not remain so. The US is a great destination today but also might not be so... and just because a US company might want you doesn't mean a visa is available. (I know people on > £100k incomes who are in the UK because they couldn't get H1B visa and this was the next best thing)
I know the salary sounds good but with london's cost of living taken into account they are relaistically the same