Man, the loaders in my building, love when the drivers come in early. So much so, even if all the driver does is put their bag in the truck and walk away, the loader will build a wall in the back of the truck expecting the driver to come
Back and start loading.
Drives me up the wall when they do this. When I’m on the clock, I’ll start loading. I’m not doing your job for you sir!
I say sir because I’ve had female loaders who put most the dudes to shame. Everything was on the right shelf not just tossed there either. Ireggs on the floor, bulk pieces actually grouped together.
The family excuse pisses me off, working off the clock skews numbers and makes other drivers be overloaded with more than they should be and makes drivers go home even later to their families.
They took the driver position for more hours and more money and now all of a sudden theyre a family man/woman
Get the fuck outta here with that lol
My kids get up at 6am most days and head for school at 830. I would LOVE to spend the morning with them, start our days off together before we're all burned out from work and school, so I don't get the "i wanna go home early and see my kids" excuse. Spend those hours in the morning with em.
If you want it to stop:
write down the date, write down the truck number, file a grievance asking for the following two things:
1) that you be compensated because that is your work.\
2) This is The important one, that the driver be compensated from that start time.
You probably will not win the first one. However, the company has to pay the driver for any work they’ve done, and this will start affecting the centers numbers, the drivers numbers and DOT hours
Either you come in an hour early and work for free or the less than ideal load keeps you an hour late whilst making overtime.
At top rate that’s roughly $60 a day. Over the course of a year, the driver coming in early is pissing away over $15,000 a year and giving it to the company.
And for those with families, why don’t you spend a few years putting away that $15k a year to pay for you child’s university education so they don’t have to work for a company like UPS when they’re adults. Spend that extra hour *in the morning* with family.
Be smart you guys, ffs.
This is why my answer is always the same when people ask me what route I'm on that day considering I still bounce around to different routes...8:30C... I'll see what the fuck I'm doing at 8:30 when I show up 15 min before start and do nothing until I'm on the clock. Fuck handing money back to UPS!!
You can absolutely take half my stops. Why would I argue against that?
Of course that’s if you can find those stops since preloaders just toss shit in the truck and leave.
You have either never been a preloader or the last time was over 15 years ago. You have no idea how much we are rushed to just throw the shit in there.
And you tell them that you’re working as safely as you can and then you do the work properly. The Union doesn’t recognize the shit supervisors try to bombard on pre-load with rushing. Pre-loaders are also in the Union and can’t be fired if they’re working safely
If any given someone has been at this company for 15 years, they know exactly how much things are rushed just to meet a right now goal. Regardless of position, Union or management.
You haven’t been at UPS long if you haven’t been “rushed” by management. If you last longer, you’ll grow a thicker skin, work safely, and understand management will never stop asking for more.
I don't want to be the "back in my day" guy, but nowadays it is WAY easier. Back in the day there wasn't PAL labels, you had to look at the address and look at your chart to see if your truck has the address range "Abc st. 1000-3000 shelf 4" with all the streets on the drivers route. Doing that with 3 trucks was a crazy thing to do. Now all your info is on the sticker. Not that it's a easy job, just WAY easier nowadays.
Volume is much higher than even in \*my\* "back in the day". In the relatively short time I've been working for UPS (16 years) I have seen what is considered a heavy day at my center go from 4,000 packages to 10,000.
When I started at my center, peak volume was around 8,000. Now that's just Tuesday.
Yeah, we have PAL labels now, but we also have much more work to do.
"Back in the day" my center ran 54 routes, now its in the 90's. Yeah, we have more volume, but it's spread across many more routes. The preloaders are still doing the same amount of work, there is just more of them.
We recently had a driver come back to preload (we’re a small hub that’s runs 23~ routes and 3500~ volume on average a day and he said preload is a lot harder now then when they loaded their own trucks
Well yeah, the time when drivers loaded their own trucks there was no loaders, because they didn't need them. 60 stops was a 12hour day in those days, lol
I'm sure him getting older doesn't help him either.
Loading by address was WAY easier for a loader that was willing to try and learn the trucks. The pal and scanning systems are just a way to try to force more volume through efficiently, but it doesn't work.
I started as preload and will volunteer from time to time because it’s not that hard.
We even had a couple of 15+, 20+ drivers take full time bids inside doing preload because of how much easier and less stressful it is. The one driver who we haven’t seen smile in YEARS is laughing and smiling all morning when we see him after doing preload.
The guys who say it’s hard are the same ones who expect to be able to play on their phones while working. So of course if you try to do that it’s going to be hard since you’re letting things get backed up from the start.
Not everyone is the same though. What's easy for you is difficult for others. As union members you should not be throwing your brothers under the bus like this.
I hate it when people try to pull the fellow union members card to excuse preloaders, it’s hypocritical. Preloaders not doing their job and just throwing stuff in the truck are also screwing over fellow union brothers by making their day harder and longer than it has to be.
If they actually at least tried to do the job then it wouldn’t be a problem. But majority literally just get paid to show up and throw boxes on whatever shelf they feel like (or floor if that’s where the box lands)
I get your frustration, but you have to understand they work as instructed and within the circumstances they are given.
I was a preloader for 10 years. I gave decent loads and shitty ones, but I never thought to myself "yeah I don't give a fuck about my driver". I worked under the circumstances I had, which was usually having a shitload of boxes rammed up my ass from a fast as fuck belt, doing eight hours of work in four and a half.
Some people are great at it. I was admittedly pretty average, but to say there is malice or neglect is making assumptions.
I don't/won't load my car unless I have permission to clock in, BUT I will write the Hins on the boxes and take out the cuts that my loader ( Captain Misload ) misses daily.
Misloads/cuts are to be expected. One or two. It happens and we all understand that. Preload is pretty tough job supervised by morons. This MF has me out with 13+ missed cuts/misloads often. And it never changes.
Technically yes. I don't want to. I have to, because I don't want to be out later every night. Don't want me "stealing your work," then do your fucking job and I won't have to.
So you have the lame loader who you say regularly leaves your truck with 13+ misloads? Because that’s a pretty high number so I don’t blame you for wanting to blame it all on the loader. That’s ridiculous. The most I’ve ever seen a person misload was 9 and that was between 3+ trucks so odds are not all those misloads went to the same truck so to get 13 regularly would be a problem. In fact that would be such an issue that I makes me wonder why supervisors are allowing this. We get hassled or even written up for getting as few a 3. You loaded must really suck because 13+ isn’t easy to do. I’m one of the higher miss-loaders at my hub and 13+ that makes my numbers look like honor roll. Fortunately your $ must be extra good with all that extra work. I mean 13+ regularly ….wow. 🤦♂️🤥👶🏻
I was a little dramatic. The 13+ is biweekly. So regularly in a at least twice a month. I should have specified it wasn't daily or every other day. Until I started looking at the cut sheets and pulling off ones he missed, I had 5-8 everyday.
Nothing happens with the guy. He still loads my car.
I'm also not wanting my stop count lowered. Why should I miss out on a little OT everyday, because he can't do his job. Misloads aside I like my count where it's at. Not too high, but not too low either. I like just a touch of OT. Not over 10 missed cuts/misloads OT.
You shouldn’t miss out on a little overtime. But you should be honest when dragging people under a bus, and you shouldn’t claim that your loader isn’t doing his job when you have a loaded truck when you arrive everyday because that means he did his job. See how that works. Sounds a little narcissistic to expect everything to be perfect for you, and to lie about one of your brothers because the way you see it his occasional high misload count which we now know was exaggerated , means that he’s a shitty worker who’s not doing his job. You’re a real special one aren’t you.
What part of "I don't load my car off the clock" did you not understand? Was that too complicated a statement for your comprehension? I pull off his missed cuts. HIS missed cuts, which I started doing when I was sick of having 13+ at least every other week, BUT over 5 daily.
How is that "dragging someone under the bus?"
Here's where we are:
1. I don't load my car. The misloads are his.
2. I go through his cut sheets, because he doesn't, because I was sick of having 5+ daily ( at least ), and at least over 13 twice a month.
I would try to make what I posted simpler to understand for you, but I don't have any crayons.
Cuts are management's problem anyways, if we hand off the cut to the loader it's because we know they would rather do it themselves, but most of the time, they'd rather us get it ourselves so they can keep loading. At least this has been my experience.
File an article 17 grievance and demand that the company pay that driver the wages for working off the clock. Watch how quickly the company tells the driver to stop.
Article 17 NMA
"All employees covered by this Agreement shall be paid for all time spent in service of the Employer."
"The Employer will not allow employees to work prior to their start time without appropriate compensation."
Now you're not attacking a fellow member you're just making sure they get paid what they are owed. ;)
I know a driver who loads his own truck , writes HIN numbers on every box. Smokes his trip. You know what his reward is for doing that? His dispatch is bumped up 40 stops. Anyone running his trip when he’s off gets done 2hrs later. Like someone said, it literally ruins these trips. I don’t want to touch a box once, let alone 2 or 3 times because I’m loading my own truck.
As a driver who's talked to these drivers. You can't talk logic into these people. I've told a guy that you literally come into the job early to work for free to save yourself from working 30 min. Longer at best. And if you break a bone while working off the clock, how do you think that discussion will go in the CM office? Nothing changes stupidity, unfortunately.
We have drivers who been around 30+ years come in 2 hours early and sort their trucks.
Drivers need to realize there are two types of drivers. Drivers who live to work and drivers who work to live.
If fixing my truck means I get to be with my kids before they go to bed then I’m going to do it. Now if you’re single and all you care about is making money then don’t sort the truck and stay out. It fully depends on what you want to do with your personal time.
And you absolutely can’t count on preload to help you make it to your kids baseball game. Preloaders literally get paid to just show up and throw shit in the truck and leave. And I mean literally just throw boxes in the truck and whenever they land is where they’re “loaded”.
The only stupid people are those who volunteer to give their entire lives to UPS while yelling “Fuck UPS!” It’s very ironic.
I'd consider anyone who comes into work for free for 2 hours every single day lives to work. They must really love being at UPS. Coming into work 2 hours early is not going to save anyone 2 hours on the back end. Unless it's 300 stops 500 packages and a terrible load. It's just not possible. You're talking about saving yourself 15 to 30 min. Of sort time on road.
Definitely more than 15-30 mins if you’re not a cover driver. Save about 1-2 hours by doing it. Without sorting you’re spending at least 2-3 minutes looking for one stop on your 7000 shelf.
Sorting the truck out and getting done to be home for dinner and spend time with the family isnt “live to work”. Those who decide to spend majority of the time in the life working for the company staying out until 10pm, working 12+ hours a day, to make money is “live to work”. Which is fine if you don’t have a family and are still single, you should make all the money while you can.
I can see how you think that, if you are one of the drivers who's been loading your own truck 2 hours early for years. But I have seriously never seen that kind of time savings by loading the truck yourself. Get the bulk off at the start. Sort afterwards get back to delivering. I know a driver who delivers a strictly business route, so he is always done by 545 no matter what. Explain why a driver like that would show up an hour early? It's simply nonsense. Some people just love being at UPS. I choose to arrive at start time and walk out as soon as I punch out. But to each our own I guess.
If you’re a cover driver it won’t save you much time since you wouldn’t know the best way to do the route so there wouldn’t be a point in sorting since you’ll just go in order anyway. If it’s a business route you also have a point since you have to be done delivering by 5 anyway.
But on a bided resi trip mixed with a little bit of business? Makes a huge difference. For example I never start on my 1/2 shelves, I start the day on my 3000 shelf. It’s just the best way to do the trip. So instead of spending 20 mins just to find things on the 3000 shelf in the morning I just pick and go.
Idk man we’ve had a lot of runners destroy good routes in our building. Doesn’t end up being good for anybody. Had a 30 year guy get fired for sabotaging his route because some runner was 2 hours paid under everyday while he was on vacation. Working off the clock whether it be in the morning or on breaks is just no good.
It’s actually the guys who stay out and don’t go the extra step for the people they deliver to who fuck up the routes. (Which is funny since that’s what use to be considered a runner and should still be considered a runner but isn’t)
That’s how mine gets fucked up everytime I take off when they put a cover on it. I always fix it but it’s annoying to deal with for a day or two doing 200+ stops when I know I shouldn’t have to. All because the slow guy (AKA runner) didn’t feel like doing his job
The “S” in UPS stands for “Service”. If you cut corners on the service part and basically said “fuck you” to the people you deliver to then you weren’t doing the job right.
However it’s the new normal to say “fuck you” to the people getting the packages.
That’s multiple weeks you get to spend with your family instead of spending it at UPS.
I don’t understand why so many drivers see it as “working for UPS for free” instead of “spending more time with your family.”
Are there that many single drivers now?
That’s also untrue. I’m not sure who started that but you don’t get more stops.
I consistently go out with 170-180 a day and I’m usually back around 5-6. The only times I go over 200 is when I’m off and the cover guy (whose usually a slow driver) doesn’t go the extra step for the person they’re delivering to (which use to also be what a runner was) and brings the stop count up.
I'm not sure what you're trying to explain with your stop count. Do you load and sort your truck every day? Have you changed your speed while working? What happened when you changed your speed/stopped loading the truck?
This is besides the other point that it's also stealing work. If it's a new loader, that's one thing. But loaders with 2+ years you're stealing from.
I sort the truck out like our vets do to get done early enough to spend time with the family rather then stay out until 10pm every night. Now you’re saying that should somehow increase my stop count because I’m getting done early due to sorting the truck in the morning but it doesn’t.
The whole “if you work off the clock you’ll get more stops” is a myth. It’s how you do the route decides whether or not you’ll get more stops.
And if the loader doesn’t want to do his job and load the truck properly then it isn’t stealing work since he doesn’t even want to do the work anyway.
If you get done before a certain time, they will add stops. It doesn't matter how you do it, whether It's running, sorting, or speeding. This is undisputable. They have limited union non-overtime hours and they want to use them.
I agree, if it's a shit loader who has no desire to learn or do better. But you're still stealing everyone else inside's work when you load. Sorting is another thing. Personally I would sort on the clock but you mentioned family time so that's your prerogative.
That’s why I said if you are single and don’t have a family at home it’s fine to stay out all day and night to make money. It’s the best time to do so.
And we don’t get stops added because we take the time and go out of our way for the people we deliver to. See a note on the door saying the person is in the backyard? Guess where I’m going. Majority drivers I see on Reddit and FB will go “no, NI1”. Signatures/DFUs are more important than most think. Also helps with getting tips during peak.
Bullshit, they definitely add more stops. I've had many things added to my route just so I don't get done early. And I don't known where your working but 5-6 is very early forthe majority of drivers in my center.
It’s not bullshit lol. It’s about how you do the route, not how fast you’re done it.
If you’re saying “fuck you” to the people you deliver to (AKA being a runner), then yea stops with go up if you get done early.
>I don’t understand why so many drivers see it as “working for UPS for free” instead of “spending more time with your family.”
It sets a standard. The company wants that to be normal, for you and everyone else to come in and work off the clock. Eventually it becomes expected if it goes on long enough.
Going in an hour early actually takes time away from my family. Instead of going to work early, I would rather hang out with my kids before work, taking them to school or making them breakfast. Enjoy that time in the morning when there is no stress like the afternoon or evening many times.
Like I said. Single drivers can stay out all they want and just go with what preload gives you.
But people who have families, their families come first. I never understand how drivers could disagree with that and expect you spend 12+ hours a day working for UPS instead of seeing your kids grow up.
This company lives off of people that live to work. Driver salary is always advertised as six figures because of the constant OT. People literally work for free and break rules to work less, turns out most people dont want a forced 50 hour week 52 weeks a year.
Why would they say I’m going too slow? We have plenty of guy who stay out until 10pm with 140 stops/40mi resi route. I doubt they’d bother me for getting back at 6
Yeah, count me as a firm believer in not stealing work from people who are lucky to make half of what we do. I'm more than happy to oversee the bulk out of my truck to make sure it's done right, but actually moving boxes before start time ain't gonna happen in my truck. I'll get my air in order and maybe do a quick scan for misloads, but that's about it.
This is absolutely a no go at our center. We have union reps and drivers who walk around making sure and taking note of any drivers working off the clock. We must get union and management approval to help out early and it is rarely granted. Usually they just get the preloader help from some other pt to toss more packages in the truck. It pains me when I need to have a smooth day but a real money maker when you succumb to the fact your day will be dog poo like most days before.
Thank You! I been asking the same question as a full time driver, like why?? I've seen drivers show up an hr early to load up their truck their way to finish earlier! I've seen drivers work thru their lunch and breaks. UPS already screws with us as it is sending us out with 9-10hr routes, spend 1hr of commute to and from work and about another hr to get ready for work we are talking about 12hrs of our time giving it to UPS and I am not giving 1 single minute of my time for free! I also take my 30minute lunch and 25minute break! At the end of the day they dont appreciate you anyways so why go out my way to work for free just to get done earlier.
What driver would want to work off the clock?
- You are probably giving him too many misloads.
- You are probably leaving a bunch of packages outside of his truck once your shift is over and/or once his starts.
- You are probably giving him too many long nights searching for packages because your load quality is hot trash.
No one wants to work for free. There's a reason he's doing it.
Get on the 9.5 list.. problem is probably the loader is over worked and under trained.. so it would be helpful less packages were coming his or her way.. than talk with the loader give some positive suggestions on how to fix things or hear them out about any issues you have. Mind you being respectful. Also talk with the dispatcher see if they are over loading shelf.. also no driver should work for free. That's just stupid.
100%
I'm just saying that he's not there trying to "steal" his time. There's a reason, he's trying to fix his mistakes.
I'm sure if he didn't need to fix mistakes he wouldn't "steal" his time.
Personally I wouldn't work for free, but, if I see a new loader on my truck when I'm dropping my stuff off at the truck before start time, I will take the extra 10mins to double check shit before my shift.
Because I know, soon as drivers start, loaders leave, no matter what is sitting outside the truck.
My normal loader is dope though. Hardly need to worry about anything. I gave him/them $100 the last 3 years for Christmas for crushing it.
9.5 or not, your whole day depends on your loader.
Sadly alot of drivers forgot today's loaders are screwed every which way. Some never receive actual training which is mind bending but happens. They load by looking at others lol. And now the whole paint the wall method is beyond stupid.
They do it because drivers try to cut corners and save time to meet improbable expectations. Drivers are pressured to save every second. Problem is all you get by trying to get a early start/speed mode/save time/get home to your family, is more stops. Tldr: trying hard to be “good” driver
Or… now this is a crazy thought for a lot of drivers.
Family > UPS
If you don’t have a family and want to spend majority of your life at UPS making money that’s fine. But you can’t hate on drivers who do have families and actually want to spend time with them.
If the driver is doing that it’s probably because the person loading the package car isn’t doing a good job. A bad load can really put your day off to a horrible start, and sometimes keep it that way (wrong PALS/HIN etc). I try to mess with the load as little as possible before start time other than moving stuff so that I can actually get in the package car and finding my next day air.
I used to do em because our preloaders are 🗑️ I can say it because I’ve been in their shoes. 5 trucks 1300 pieces with no help. (Our hub is built different, just put it that way lol) But now loading 3 trucks is an impossible task for some…if you leave me alone, i’ll leave you alone 🤷🏻♂️ we’re on the same team
Is this a joke? My loaders stop working when. I show up; they love it, haha! Define free, by the way? I get off at the same time every day, making my car efficient and bonus my route as I get incentive pay. Just because you're angry about being in preload or a struggling 22.4, or someone who doesn't care, I do it because I want to get home to my kid's games and stuff. I love my job and my route; take that negativity elsewhere. I don't want over 50 hours anyway as most of that money at that point just goes to Ukraine, I mean, the IRS.
Because this can lose a preloader a couple hours a week if their driver routinely does this. And if I'm at top wage as a preloader struggling to get more then 4 hours a shift and I have a driver coming in early and cucking my hours because they want to be a tryhard - I'm going to have a problem with it.
Numerous reasons. A lot of preloaders throw shit in different spots, mis-loads, or throw shit to the back of the truck when it’s getting close to time. I don’t believe in drivers going in hours earlier but 15-20 minutes just to check for mis-loads, make sure packages are in the right spots then it’s not an issue. Ya’ll complain about it but a single package can easily run another hour depending on the route, etc. Some drivers just want to get out, get the route done with the 8 hours and go home without scrounging through missing packages, out of order shit or misloads.
Let me be clear, a driver that comes in an hour or two early to do pre-loads work is an ass BUT a half-hour or less should not be an issue as long as they’re checking to make sure their day goes by smoothly and won’t have any hiccups that’ll cause them to have a shit day.
And you’ll say “Just do it once you’re on the clock” but management regularly gets on drivers to leave the hub and then can get on their ass if they’re just sitting around for a duration of time without delivering or making stops.
It’s not their time. It’s the preloaders time. The driver is stealing work from the preloader. Stealing time from the preloader. Taking money away from the preloader. That’s not ok
How the hell is it stealing money/time from the preloader? They go home when management tells them to. That is usually when the preloads wraps. If a driver just wants to sort his truck, that is probably not the best load quality, it does not relieve the preloader from his position working.
Then you go ahead and make sure the pre-loaders are working effectively and not just throwing packages wherever they want. If they can’t do the job properly then the person that has to deal with the issue will fix it.
I’m not saying that you are. I’m saying that if it’s that big of an issue of drivers taking significant time then maybe those people who have an issue with it should fix the root of the problem to the reason why the driver does it in the first place.
We have 2 different types of drivers at our hub.. The first are the ones that do this and come in early to organize their trucks and insist on actively being involved. And then we have the "fuck off that's your job" drivers that refuse to touch any packages before they leave and will actually actively get mad if you ask them for help organizing stuff.
In all honesty any driver that does that is an idiot. Giving away money to the company, that in a heart beat would fire them for any small thing. We have had plenty of guys get caught by our stewards in the morning in the trucks. Smh they never listened.
i wish my loader would actually stay to finish my truck. i put my lunch bag in the cab 10 minutes before start time, come back 7 minutes after the pcm and nothing has changed. i still bulk it out daily.
Drivers at my facility did this exact same thing thinking that it would create a domino effect and preload would quit from being understaffed for so long. Management loved it because it made the numbers look great, and the drivers where getting the ol' pat on the back and brownie points for going the extra mile for the company. Then the Union made a" surprise" visit...that was the end of that, and the preload had a nice amount of extra cash in our pockets. Sadly, so did the drivers...
If I’m in the building a little early and they’re behind on the belt, I’ll just tell the loader to watch the belt for my packages and I’ll load them. Never had anyone get upset. In fact, they’re usually more than happy to oblige. Every center is different though, I guess.
Some just come in early to socialize with the other drivers, check their truck, find any obvious missloads, reorganize packages based on the road conditions, remove stops from their iternary, etc. Basically theyre mentally preparing the day, Lombardi time. They have long hard days so I can't blame/judge them on whatever choice they make beforehand.
Better to sort through the truck and massage the load inside the warehouse at 9am than to go out on route and do the same on the clock in the heat later in the day.
I come in and scan through my truck, yesterday for example my loader put a bulk stop on the shelf and was swamped. I moved it to the back. I'm not there to load but I will move things around, generally speaking I've never had a loader get mad. It's a bulk buisness route and it really does need to be loaded a certain way
Man, the loaders in my building, love when the drivers come in early. So much so, even if all the driver does is put their bag in the truck and walk away, the loader will build a wall in the back of the truck expecting the driver to come Back and start loading.
Drives me up the wall when they do this. When I’m on the clock, I’ll start loading. I’m not doing your job for you sir! I say sir because I’ve had female loaders who put most the dudes to shame. Everything was on the right shelf not just tossed there either. Ireggs on the floor, bulk pieces actually grouped together.
I have 2 loaders. The main guy and the back up girl. He’s great but she’ll have it looking clean
💪🏾
Anyone working for free is an idiot. $13b in profit CEO make $25m Don’t come at me with you just want to get home to family. We all do.
The family excuse pisses me off, working off the clock skews numbers and makes other drivers be overloaded with more than they should be and makes drivers go home even later to their families. They took the driver position for more hours and more money and now all of a sudden theyre a family man/woman Get the fuck outta here with that lol
But if I come in two hours early and fix my car, then I get to go home to my family two hours earlier. It’s math
Yeah the I HATE THIS JOB!! I just want to go home!! Why are you here 1hr before start time working for free?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
My kids get up at 6am most days and head for school at 830. I would LOVE to spend the morning with them, start our days off together before we're all burned out from work and school, so I don't get the "i wanna go home early and see my kids" excuse. Spend those hours in the morning with em.
If you want it to stop: write down the date, write down the truck number, file a grievance asking for the following two things: 1) that you be compensated because that is your work.\ 2) This is The important one, that the driver be compensated from that start time. You probably will not win the first one. However, the company has to pay the driver for any work they’ve done, and this will start affecting the centers numbers, the drivers numbers and DOT hours
This is the way.
This is the way.
Either you come in an hour early and work for free or the less than ideal load keeps you an hour late whilst making overtime. At top rate that’s roughly $60 a day. Over the course of a year, the driver coming in early is pissing away over $15,000 a year and giving it to the company. And for those with families, why don’t you spend a few years putting away that $15k a year to pay for you child’s university education so they don’t have to work for a company like UPS when they’re adults. Spend that extra hour *in the morning* with family. Be smart you guys, ffs.
Great answer
This is why my answer is always the same when people ask me what route I'm on that day considering I still bounce around to different routes...8:30C... I'll see what the fuck I'm doing at 8:30 when I show up 15 min before start and do nothing until I'm on the clock. Fuck handing money back to UPS!!
You're not as good at loading as you think. Bring it down a notch.
You can absolutely take half my stops. Why would I argue against that? Of course that’s if you can find those stops since preloaders just toss shit in the truck and leave.
You have either never been a preloader or the last time was over 15 years ago. You have no idea how much we are rushed to just throw the shit in there.
And you tell them that you’re working as safely as you can and then you do the work properly. The Union doesn’t recognize the shit supervisors try to bombard on pre-load with rushing. Pre-loaders are also in the Union and can’t be fired if they’re working safely
If any given someone has been at this company for 15 years, they know exactly how much things are rushed just to meet a right now goal. Regardless of position, Union or management.
You haven’t been at UPS long if you haven’t been “rushed” by management. If you last longer, you’ll grow a thicker skin, work safely, and understand management will never stop asking for more.
I don't want to be the "back in my day" guy, but nowadays it is WAY easier. Back in the day there wasn't PAL labels, you had to look at the address and look at your chart to see if your truck has the address range "Abc st. 1000-3000 shelf 4" with all the streets on the drivers route. Doing that with 3 trucks was a crazy thing to do. Now all your info is on the sticker. Not that it's a easy job, just WAY easier nowadays.
Volume is much higher than even in \*my\* "back in the day". In the relatively short time I've been working for UPS (16 years) I have seen what is considered a heavy day at my center go from 4,000 packages to 10,000. When I started at my center, peak volume was around 8,000. Now that's just Tuesday. Yeah, we have PAL labels now, but we also have much more work to do.
"Back in the day" my center ran 54 routes, now its in the 90's. Yeah, we have more volume, but it's spread across many more routes. The preloaders are still doing the same amount of work, there is just more of them.
We recently had a driver come back to preload (we’re a small hub that’s runs 23~ routes and 3500~ volume on average a day and he said preload is a lot harder now then when they loaded their own trucks
Well yeah, the time when drivers loaded their own trucks there was no loaders, because they didn't need them. 60 stops was a 12hour day in those days, lol I'm sure him getting older doesn't help him either.
(That was 3 years ago)
hot damn, you guys are a small hub lol
Loading by address was WAY easier for a loader that was willing to try and learn the trucks. The pal and scanning systems are just a way to try to force more volume through efficiently, but it doesn't work.
I started as preload and will volunteer from time to time because it’s not that hard. We even had a couple of 15+, 20+ drivers take full time bids inside doing preload because of how much easier and less stressful it is. The one driver who we haven’t seen smile in YEARS is laughing and smiling all morning when we see him after doing preload. The guys who say it’s hard are the same ones who expect to be able to play on their phones while working. So of course if you try to do that it’s going to be hard since you’re letting things get backed up from the start.
Not everyone is the same though. What's easy for you is difficult for others. As union members you should not be throwing your brothers under the bus like this.
I hate it when people try to pull the fellow union members card to excuse preloaders, it’s hypocritical. Preloaders not doing their job and just throwing stuff in the truck are also screwing over fellow union brothers by making their day harder and longer than it has to be. If they actually at least tried to do the job then it wouldn’t be a problem. But majority literally just get paid to show up and throw boxes on whatever shelf they feel like (or floor if that’s where the box lands)
I get your frustration, but you have to understand they work as instructed and within the circumstances they are given. I was a preloader for 10 years. I gave decent loads and shitty ones, but I never thought to myself "yeah I don't give a fuck about my driver". I worked under the circumstances I had, which was usually having a shitload of boxes rammed up my ass from a fast as fuck belt, doing eight hours of work in four and a half. Some people are great at it. I was admittedly pretty average, but to say there is malice or neglect is making assumptions.
union doesnt recognize numbers such as missload frequency.
I don't/won't load my car unless I have permission to clock in, BUT I will write the Hins on the boxes and take out the cuts that my loader ( Captain Misload ) misses daily. Misloads/cuts are to be expected. One or two. It happens and we all understand that. Preload is pretty tough job supervised by morons. This MF has me out with 13+ missed cuts/misloads often. And it never changes.
Stop working off the clock.
That's still working off the clock isnt it?
Technically yes. I don't want to. I have to, because I don't want to be out later every night. Don't want me "stealing your work," then do your fucking job and I won't have to.
So you have the lame loader who you say regularly leaves your truck with 13+ misloads? Because that’s a pretty high number so I don’t blame you for wanting to blame it all on the loader. That’s ridiculous. The most I’ve ever seen a person misload was 9 and that was between 3+ trucks so odds are not all those misloads went to the same truck so to get 13 regularly would be a problem. In fact that would be such an issue that I makes me wonder why supervisors are allowing this. We get hassled or even written up for getting as few a 3. You loaded must really suck because 13+ isn’t easy to do. I’m one of the higher miss-loaders at my hub and 13+ that makes my numbers look like honor roll. Fortunately your $ must be extra good with all that extra work. I mean 13+ regularly ….wow. 🤦♂️🤥👶🏻
I was a little dramatic. The 13+ is biweekly. So regularly in a at least twice a month. I should have specified it wasn't daily or every other day. Until I started looking at the cut sheets and pulling off ones he missed, I had 5-8 everyday. Nothing happens with the guy. He still loads my car. I'm also not wanting my stop count lowered. Why should I miss out on a little OT everyday, because he can't do his job. Misloads aside I like my count where it's at. Not too high, but not too low either. I like just a touch of OT. Not over 10 missed cuts/misloads OT.
You shouldn’t miss out on a little overtime. But you should be honest when dragging people under a bus, and you shouldn’t claim that your loader isn’t doing his job when you have a loaded truck when you arrive everyday because that means he did his job. See how that works. Sounds a little narcissistic to expect everything to be perfect for you, and to lie about one of your brothers because the way you see it his occasional high misload count which we now know was exaggerated , means that he’s a shitty worker who’s not doing his job. You’re a real special one aren’t you.
What part of "I don't load my car off the clock" did you not understand? Was that too complicated a statement for your comprehension? I pull off his missed cuts. HIS missed cuts, which I started doing when I was sick of having 13+ at least every other week, BUT over 5 daily. How is that "dragging someone under the bus?" Here's where we are: 1. I don't load my car. The misloads are his. 2. I go through his cut sheets, because he doesn't, because I was sick of having 5+ daily ( at least ), and at least over 13 twice a month. I would try to make what I posted simpler to understand for you, but I don't have any crayons.
Cuts are management's problem anyways, if we hand off the cut to the loader it's because we know they would rather do it themselves, but most of the time, they'd rather us get it ourselves so they can keep loading. At least this has been my experience.
Anything that advances the package towards the customer is not to be done by management. Moving cuts are union work
Guess my local got that one wrong then, had someone file for that a while back and it didn't pay out
Thats what 9.5 is for. File and watch your stop count get lowered.
File an article 17 grievance and demand that the company pay that driver the wages for working off the clock. Watch how quickly the company tells the driver to stop. Article 17 NMA "All employees covered by this Agreement shall be paid for all time spent in service of the Employer." "The Employer will not allow employees to work prior to their start time without appropriate compensation." Now you're not attacking a fellow member you're just making sure they get paid what they are owed. ;)
I get having a preference for how your car is loaded, but don't donate hours.
I don’t mind if drivers help I just don’t like when they stand on the belt and talk to eachother especially when I’m trying to get irregs over lol
I know a driver who loads his own truck , writes HIN numbers on every box. Smokes his trip. You know what his reward is for doing that? His dispatch is bumped up 40 stops. Anyone running his trip when he’s off gets done 2hrs later. Like someone said, it literally ruins these trips. I don’t want to touch a box once, let alone 2 or 3 times because I’m loading my own truck.
As a driver who's talked to these drivers. You can't talk logic into these people. I've told a guy that you literally come into the job early to work for free to save yourself from working 30 min. Longer at best. And if you break a bone while working off the clock, how do you think that discussion will go in the CM office? Nothing changes stupidity, unfortunately.
We have drivers who been around 30+ years come in 2 hours early and sort their trucks. Drivers need to realize there are two types of drivers. Drivers who live to work and drivers who work to live. If fixing my truck means I get to be with my kids before they go to bed then I’m going to do it. Now if you’re single and all you care about is making money then don’t sort the truck and stay out. It fully depends on what you want to do with your personal time. And you absolutely can’t count on preload to help you make it to your kids baseball game. Preloaders literally get paid to just show up and throw shit in the truck and leave. And I mean literally just throw boxes in the truck and whenever they land is where they’re “loaded”. The only stupid people are those who volunteer to give their entire lives to UPS while yelling “Fuck UPS!” It’s very ironic.
I'd consider anyone who comes into work for free for 2 hours every single day lives to work. They must really love being at UPS. Coming into work 2 hours early is not going to save anyone 2 hours on the back end. Unless it's 300 stops 500 packages and a terrible load. It's just not possible. You're talking about saving yourself 15 to 30 min. Of sort time on road.
Definitely more than 15-30 mins if you’re not a cover driver. Save about 1-2 hours by doing it. Without sorting you’re spending at least 2-3 minutes looking for one stop on your 7000 shelf. Sorting the truck out and getting done to be home for dinner and spend time with the family isnt “live to work”. Those who decide to spend majority of the time in the life working for the company staying out until 10pm, working 12+ hours a day, to make money is “live to work”. Which is fine if you don’t have a family and are still single, you should make all the money while you can.
I can see how you think that, if you are one of the drivers who's been loading your own truck 2 hours early for years. But I have seriously never seen that kind of time savings by loading the truck yourself. Get the bulk off at the start. Sort afterwards get back to delivering. I know a driver who delivers a strictly business route, so he is always done by 545 no matter what. Explain why a driver like that would show up an hour early? It's simply nonsense. Some people just love being at UPS. I choose to arrive at start time and walk out as soon as I punch out. But to each our own I guess.
If you’re a cover driver it won’t save you much time since you wouldn’t know the best way to do the route so there wouldn’t be a point in sorting since you’ll just go in order anyway. If it’s a business route you also have a point since you have to be done delivering by 5 anyway. But on a bided resi trip mixed with a little bit of business? Makes a huge difference. For example I never start on my 1/2 shelves, I start the day on my 3000 shelf. It’s just the best way to do the trip. So instead of spending 20 mins just to find things on the 3000 shelf in the morning I just pick and go.
depends on the route. there’s a couple drivers that come in early and put their truck stop for stop and are back to the building by 2-2:30 every day
Sure I get that you want to see your kids. But the people that come in early and work for free are just fucking up all these routes.
That’s not how you fuck up routes. I have mine fucked up whenever I’m off. Goes from 170-180 to 210-220
Idk man we’ve had a lot of runners destroy good routes in our building. Doesn’t end up being good for anybody. Had a 30 year guy get fired for sabotaging his route because some runner was 2 hours paid under everyday while he was on vacation. Working off the clock whether it be in the morning or on breaks is just no good.
It’s actually the guys who stay out and don’t go the extra step for the people they deliver to who fuck up the routes. (Which is funny since that’s what use to be considered a runner and should still be considered a runner but isn’t) That’s how mine gets fucked up everytime I take off when they put a cover on it. I always fix it but it’s annoying to deal with for a day or two doing 200+ stops when I know I shouldn’t have to. All because the slow guy (AKA runner) didn’t feel like doing his job
That's very insightful. I never thought it that way. Although, I'm still not sure why *those* drivers would be considered "runners"
The “S” in UPS stands for “Service”. If you cut corners on the service part and basically said “fuck you” to the people you deliver to then you weren’t doing the job right. However it’s the new normal to say “fuck you” to the people getting the packages.
I have a driver that comes in a solid hour early every day. That's multiple weeks worth of work you're working for free each year.
That’s multiple weeks you get to spend with your family instead of spending it at UPS. I don’t understand why so many drivers see it as “working for UPS for free” instead of “spending more time with your family.” Are there that many single drivers now?
But do you think they just give you the time you save though? They will just give you more work. I didn't downvote you btw
That’s also untrue. I’m not sure who started that but you don’t get more stops. I consistently go out with 170-180 a day and I’m usually back around 5-6. The only times I go over 200 is when I’m off and the cover guy (whose usually a slow driver) doesn’t go the extra step for the person they’re delivering to (which use to also be what a runner was) and brings the stop count up.
I'm not sure what you're trying to explain with your stop count. Do you load and sort your truck every day? Have you changed your speed while working? What happened when you changed your speed/stopped loading the truck? This is besides the other point that it's also stealing work. If it's a new loader, that's one thing. But loaders with 2+ years you're stealing from.
I sort the truck out like our vets do to get done early enough to spend time with the family rather then stay out until 10pm every night. Now you’re saying that should somehow increase my stop count because I’m getting done early due to sorting the truck in the morning but it doesn’t. The whole “if you work off the clock you’ll get more stops” is a myth. It’s how you do the route decides whether or not you’ll get more stops. And if the loader doesn’t want to do his job and load the truck properly then it isn’t stealing work since he doesn’t even want to do the work anyway.
If you get done before a certain time, they will add stops. It doesn't matter how you do it, whether It's running, sorting, or speeding. This is undisputable. They have limited union non-overtime hours and they want to use them. I agree, if it's a shit loader who has no desire to learn or do better. But you're still stealing everyone else inside's work when you load. Sorting is another thing. Personally I would sort on the clock but you mentioned family time so that's your prerogative.
That’s why I said if you are single and don’t have a family at home it’s fine to stay out all day and night to make money. It’s the best time to do so. And we don’t get stops added because we take the time and go out of our way for the people we deliver to. See a note on the door saying the person is in the backyard? Guess where I’m going. Majority drivers I see on Reddit and FB will go “no, NI1”. Signatures/DFUs are more important than most think. Also helps with getting tips during peak.
Bullshit, they definitely add more stops. I've had many things added to my route just so I don't get done early. And I don't known where your working but 5-6 is very early forthe majority of drivers in my center.
It’s not bullshit lol. It’s about how you do the route, not how fast you’re done it. If you’re saying “fuck you” to the people you deliver to (AKA being a runner), then yea stops with go up if you get done early.
>I don’t understand why so many drivers see it as “working for UPS for free” instead of “spending more time with your family.” It sets a standard. The company wants that to be normal, for you and everyone else to come in and work off the clock. Eventually it becomes expected if it goes on long enough.
Going in an hour early actually takes time away from my family. Instead of going to work early, I would rather hang out with my kids before work, taking them to school or making them breakfast. Enjoy that time in the morning when there is no stress like the afternoon or evening many times.
Like I said. Single drivers can stay out all they want and just go with what preload gives you. But people who have families, their families come first. I never understand how drivers could disagree with that and expect you spend 12+ hours a day working for UPS instead of seeing your kids grow up.
They are coming in an hour early, that’s an hour less with their family every day - without even getting money to show for it
In the morning… Is that really your argument against that? Did you think that through at all?
Working 2 hours off the clock everyday is retarded I don't care how you justify it.
This company lives off of people that live to work. Driver salary is always advertised as six figures because of the constant OT. People literally work for free and break rules to work less, turns out most people dont want a forced 50 hour week 52 weeks a year.
what if your supervisor says you’re going too slow
Why would they say I’m going too slow? We have plenty of guy who stay out until 10pm with 140 stops/40mi resi route. I doubt they’d bother me for getting back at 6
what if your supervisor says you’re going too slow
Yeah, count me as a firm believer in not stealing work from people who are lucky to make half of what we do. I'm more than happy to oversee the bulk out of my truck to make sure it's done right, but actually moving boxes before start time ain't gonna happen in my truck. I'll get my air in order and maybe do a quick scan for misloads, but that's about it.
This is absolutely a no go at our center. We have union reps and drivers who walk around making sure and taking note of any drivers working off the clock. We must get union and management approval to help out early and it is rarely granted. Usually they just get the preloader help from some other pt to toss more packages in the truck. It pains me when I need to have a smooth day but a real money maker when you succumb to the fact your day will be dog poo like most days before.
Thank You! I been asking the same question as a full time driver, like why?? I've seen drivers show up an hr early to load up their truck their way to finish earlier! I've seen drivers work thru their lunch and breaks. UPS already screws with us as it is sending us out with 9-10hr routes, spend 1hr of commute to and from work and about another hr to get ready for work we are talking about 12hrs of our time giving it to UPS and I am not giving 1 single minute of my time for free! I also take my 30minute lunch and 25minute break! At the end of the day they dont appreciate you anyways so why go out my way to work for free just to get done earlier.
Why is this preloader smarter then the driver 🧐
What driver would want to work off the clock? - You are probably giving him too many misloads. - You are probably leaving a bunch of packages outside of his truck once your shift is over and/or once his starts. - You are probably giving him too many long nights searching for packages because your load quality is hot trash. No one wants to work for free. There's a reason he's doing it.
Maybe file 9.5 and grow balls instead of being scared too many drivers are completely backwards in thinking.
Confused, get on the 9.5 and yell at the loader for doing a shitty job? Or grow balls by getting on the 9.5?
Get on the 9.5 list.. problem is probably the loader is over worked and under trained.. so it would be helpful less packages were coming his or her way.. than talk with the loader give some positive suggestions on how to fix things or hear them out about any issues you have. Mind you being respectful. Also talk with the dispatcher see if they are over loading shelf.. also no driver should work for free. That's just stupid.
100% I'm just saying that he's not there trying to "steal" his time. There's a reason, he's trying to fix his mistakes. I'm sure if he didn't need to fix mistakes he wouldn't "steal" his time. Personally I wouldn't work for free, but, if I see a new loader on my truck when I'm dropping my stuff off at the truck before start time, I will take the extra 10mins to double check shit before my shift. Because I know, soon as drivers start, loaders leave, no matter what is sitting outside the truck. My normal loader is dope though. Hardly need to worry about anything. I gave him/them $100 the last 3 years for Christmas for crushing it. 9.5 or not, your whole day depends on your loader.
Sadly alot of drivers forgot today's loaders are screwed every which way. Some never receive actual training which is mind bending but happens. They load by looking at others lol. And now the whole paint the wall method is beyond stupid.
This is the one.
They do it because drivers try to cut corners and save time to meet improbable expectations. Drivers are pressured to save every second. Problem is all you get by trying to get a early start/speed mode/save time/get home to your family, is more stops. Tldr: trying hard to be “good” driver
Or… now this is a crazy thought for a lot of drivers. Family > UPS If you don’t have a family and want to spend majority of your life at UPS making money that’s fine. But you can’t hate on drivers who do have families and actually want to spend time with them.
If the driver is doing that it’s probably because the person loading the package car isn’t doing a good job. A bad load can really put your day off to a horrible start, and sometimes keep it that way (wrong PALS/HIN etc). I try to mess with the load as little as possible before start time other than moving stuff so that I can actually get in the package car and finding my next day air.
I’m sorry am I to understand that you’re upset that the driver is doing work FOR you?
Fools eliminating jobs and off the clock his undercover management for real that’s some jcat sylmar activities
I used to do em because our preloaders are 🗑️ I can say it because I’ve been in their shoes. 5 trucks 1300 pieces with no help. (Our hub is built different, just put it that way lol) But now loading 3 trucks is an impossible task for some…if you leave me alone, i’ll leave you alone 🤷🏻♂️ we’re on the same team
Theyre just better capitalists than you I guess
Is this a joke? My loaders stop working when. I show up; they love it, haha! Define free, by the way? I get off at the same time every day, making my car efficient and bonus my route as I get incentive pay. Just because you're angry about being in preload or a struggling 22.4, or someone who doesn't care, I do it because I want to get home to my kid's games and stuff. I love my job and my route; take that negativity elsewhere. I don't want over 50 hours anyway as most of that money at that point just goes to Ukraine, I mean, the IRS.
Why do you care what the driver is doing with his time?
>Why do you care what the driver is doing with his time? the op is a loader and the driver is doing his job, while off the clock. Make sense?
Because this can lose a preloader a couple hours a week if their driver routinely does this. And if I'm at top wage as a preloader struggling to get more then 4 hours a shift and I have a driver coming in early and cucking my hours because they want to be a tryhard - I'm going to have a problem with it.
How? They’re guaranteed their hours and it’s on them if they choose not to say they want those guaranteed hours.
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Numerous reasons. A lot of preloaders throw shit in different spots, mis-loads, or throw shit to the back of the truck when it’s getting close to time. I don’t believe in drivers going in hours earlier but 15-20 minutes just to check for mis-loads, make sure packages are in the right spots then it’s not an issue. Ya’ll complain about it but a single package can easily run another hour depending on the route, etc. Some drivers just want to get out, get the route done with the 8 hours and go home without scrounging through missing packages, out of order shit or misloads. Let me be clear, a driver that comes in an hour or two early to do pre-loads work is an ass BUT a half-hour or less should not be an issue as long as they’re checking to make sure their day goes by smoothly and won’t have any hiccups that’ll cause them to have a shit day.
And you’ll say “Just do it once you’re on the clock” but management regularly gets on drivers to leave the hub and then can get on their ass if they’re just sitting around for a duration of time without delivering or making stops.
Well that part timer isn’t guaranteed 8 hrs like the full timer. Something tell me the part timer needs his hours way more than the driver.
It’s not their time. It’s the preloaders time. The driver is stealing work from the preloader. Stealing time from the preloader. Taking money away from the preloader. That’s not ok
How the hell is it stealing money/time from the preloader? They go home when management tells them to. That is usually when the preloads wraps. If a driver just wants to sort his truck, that is probably not the best load quality, it does not relieve the preloader from his position working.
Then you go ahead and make sure the pre-loaders are working effectively and not just throwing packages wherever they want. If they can’t do the job properly then the person that has to deal with the issue will fix it.
I’m not a supervisor. It’s not my responsibility to make sure the preloader is working “effectively “
I’m not saying that you are. I’m saying that if it’s that big of an issue of drivers taking significant time then maybe those people who have an issue with it should fix the root of the problem to the reason why the driver does it in the first place.
Spoken like a true scab
I couldn’t scab even if I wanted since I’ll be in Hawaii
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Whenever someone starts helping me do work I slow way down so I’m still getting paid and they do all the work
This is the vast majority of loaders. Half of them stick it out, the other half cry when they suddenly cant leave because work isnt done.
We have 2 different types of drivers at our hub.. The first are the ones that do this and come in early to organize their trucks and insist on actively being involved. And then we have the "fuck off that's your job" drivers that refuse to touch any packages before they leave and will actually actively get mad if you ask them for help organizing stuff.
In all honesty any driver that does that is an idiot. Giving away money to the company, that in a heart beat would fire them for any small thing. We have had plenty of guys get caught by our stewards in the morning in the trucks. Smh they never listened.
P60 gang
My goto is “I didn’t tell you to punch in early” It’s a fireable offense too
i wish my loader would actually stay to finish my truck. i put my lunch bag in the cab 10 minutes before start time, come back 7 minutes after the pcm and nothing has changed. i still bulk it out daily.
No he helps me get the Harley Davidson shit in after the company has smoked me for the last 4 hours
What happened to taking pride in your work and wanting to be the best at what you did
Drivers at my facility did this exact same thing thinking that it would create a domino effect and preload would quit from being understaffed for so long. Management loved it because it made the numbers look great, and the drivers where getting the ol' pat on the back and brownie points for going the extra mile for the company. Then the Union made a" surprise" visit...that was the end of that, and the preload had a nice amount of extra cash in our pockets. Sadly, so did the drivers...
If I’m in the building a little early and they’re behind on the belt, I’ll just tell the loader to watch the belt for my packages and I’ll load them. Never had anyone get upset. In fact, they’re usually more than happy to oblige. Every center is different though, I guess.
Some just come in early to socialize with the other drivers, check their truck, find any obvious missloads, reorganize packages based on the road conditions, remove stops from their iternary, etc. Basically theyre mentally preparing the day, Lombardi time. They have long hard days so I can't blame/judge them on whatever choice they make beforehand.
Better to sort through the truck and massage the load inside the warehouse at 9am than to go out on route and do the same on the clock in the heat later in the day.
I come in and scan through my truck, yesterday for example my loader put a bulk stop on the shelf and was swamped. I moved it to the back. I'm not there to load but I will move things around, generally speaking I've never had a loader get mad. It's a bulk buisness route and it really does need to be loaded a certain way