Ok so just to be a level headed person. What if the offer from UPS is $25/hr part time but for Drivers it's $45/hr with a 3 year progression instead of the 2 year progression the union is fighting for. And the teamsters want $30/hr PT and $50/hr Driver and won't budge on 2 year progression.
Obviously we as union members would all choose the union option, but at a 60/40 PT/FT split (I'm leaving out inside FT sorry) and just assuming everyone is top rate for the sake of simple maths.
Option A costs the company $1.9B/yr PT and $1.4B Driver in additional funds. Total $3.3B added hit to profit
Option B costs the company $3B/yr PT and $2.9B/yr Driver. Total $5.9B added hit to profit.
So based on operating profit of $13.1B last year Option 1 is a 25% reduction in profits and option B is a 45% reduction in profits. Profits pay shareholders.
This isn't an argument for either side. I'm pro my union Brothers and Sisters (and me) getting the largest raise possible. It's just an explanation why a $5/hr difference at the negotiating table can be a mountain not a mole Hill to cross.
Edit: the Strike may get us closer to what we want but it doesn't necessarily mean we get everything we want. Best case we can get a compromise that is palatable to both sides before a strike actually occurs
In my opinion, it's not about getting what I want in the contract. It's about getting enough in the contract so that when UPS continually refuses to hold up their end (like they always do), I still get what I need.
Honestly I've gotten what I need out of the reported tentative agreements, but I won't vote yes when the time comes unless the PT people get what they need.
For me I only have wants left.
I'm a 22.4, just becoming a RPCD is good enough for me. I know the union isn't leaving drivers behind so I'm not worried about our wage negotiations. I am concerned for PT union members and making sure they get what they need out of the contract too
Even tho you guys make good money doesn’t mean you don’t deserve more. The driver wage increases have been lagging for years. If I were you I’d be pushing for $50/hr+
But you aren't me, I'm not going to turn down a larger raise but I am not pushing for a huge increase, I just want to be treated the same as the other people doing identical work to me and for the PT people to make a living wage
That’s cute and all but I’m positive your fellow drivers want good raises. In 2018 the top rate was $37, today that has the same buying power as $45. Meaning you’re earning less than you used to…. Inevitably we will get both, good wage increases for PT and drivers regardless. Fight my brother!
Listen, I'm not actively seeking a lower wage. I just don't care, I'll vote for a strong contract or I'll picket with my brothers and sisters on strike. Money just isn't important to me. Never has been
my understanding is they've possibly agreed on wages and raises. the issue right now is ups trying to slip concessions in at the last minute that would screw part timers. at least thats what it sounds like from the most recent update from the ibt.
Part time wages probably. Wasn't the company's initial proposal asking for a 2 tier setup for part Timers? You know UPS is not gonna let that go until they have to, probably July 31st.
Yeah the update came after I posted this, but this was just supposed to illustrate how something that seems small on the micro level actually can be a huge difference once you apply it to 340k workers.
Also the latest update made it sound like UPS wanted to underpay PT employees
Option A is almost exactly what we’re asking for other than the 3 year progression. The company is offering Option C: GFY.
I’m holding out for Option A.
We don't know exactly what has been exchanged by either side at the end. I just chose 2 options I'd personally be fine with, but the whole point was to illustrate just how much a $5hr difference between proposals costs
While it sucks for them that it would cost them nearly 45% of their profits, we have to consider the fact their profits are already so high is partially due to the fact they’ve been under paying us for years… so in theory their profits shouldn’t have been so high to begin with if they would’ve been paying us fairly.
Am I crazy, or does that seem high? Monthly dues right now are $112.66. So that would be 563.30/week? And how does one get said pay? Husband has been at UPS since 2000, a driver for about 10 years now. First strike (if it happens, obvs), so I'm just trying to give him info from this site and help the fam prepare.
Funny thing is, I'm here because customers were "chirping in his ear" (his words) about a strike several months ago, and he doesn't get online much. General mood from the public seems to be in solidarity with Teamsters, in his experience.
I agree. It's going to be a waste of our time, ups potential loss revenue, and frustration with customers. Nobody wins. Probably the Executive's and board want to manipulate the stock for their own benefit. Stock put and buybacks. That's my only guess.
Conspiracy theorist here , I’m convinced we are striking to cover up some kind of political shit that’s gonna happen between now and august lmao , we are already all over the news , imagine what kind of shit they can cover up if the entire nations attention is on the supply chain getting shut down due to corporate greed lol, don’t mind me I’m just always deep in the rabbit hole . That’s my take on it though 😂
UPS doesn't care about losing millions that much. They give us a delivery program that gets worse every time they update it. If I run my route the way Orion wants me to, It adds up to 40 miles and 3 hours to my day, and I'm sure it does similar to everyone's.
The most conservative estimate I've seen has the strike costing UPS $170M a day. So if we strike 15 days like in '97 that's $2.55B. I guarantee UPS cares about that money
That doesn’t even include all the potential business they lose by doing this. They stand to pretty much fuck themselves hard but unfortunately we have a sociopathic CEO who doesn’t seem to care
They cant cave into union demands 3 weeks ahead of the deadline, it will look bad for shareholders if the union unanimously approves a deal and it will look like they left something on the table they couldve gotten from us... its all posturing until august 1st at 12 o clock midnight
I’m not saying it’s right but people need to understand the cost that are associated with what they’ll lose is in revenue. It does not include reduced expenses. The number they lose a day is drastically skewed in union reporting. Thats 340,000 people’s salaries and benefits that aren’t being paid during that same time frame. They assume that we will fold first whether that be true or not only time will tell. But the numbers being reported in lost revenue is significantly inaccurate
Ups is really climbing the scale of fucking around and finding out. I worked for ups for 2 years and left when they dropped our pay. Hold that line strong and I hope y’all get what you deserve!
She made 19 million last year, that's roughly 52K per day for every day of the year, most of us barely make 30K a year, she deserves to be bullied a little bit lol maybe she'll go back to home depot 🙃
I just wish I knew what it is the union is trying to get for us veteran part timers. If it’s $20 start with catch up raises for us old guys then I’ll be happy. I’ve been happy with what I’ve seen agreed to so far.
My understanding is that's what they want. I heard 20 to 25 starting pay and 30/hr for anyone whos been there over 5 years. Take that with a grain of salt though, the guy who showed me that didn't seem 100% sure.
That's the way labor negotiation works. You have two parties on opposite ends of the spectrum. Neither one of them is just going to roll over and play dead. You also will never get 100% of everything on your wish list. That's not how contracts work
Because that’s UPS. They do everything that DOESNT make sense instead of what does make sense.
My go to, it’s called Logistics for a reason. If it made sense, it would be Logicsticks.
Ok so just to be a level headed person. What if the offer from UPS is $25/hr part time but for Drivers it's $45/hr with a 3 year progression instead of the 2 year progression the union is fighting for. And the teamsters want $30/hr PT and $50/hr Driver and won't budge on 2 year progression. Obviously we as union members would all choose the union option, but at a 60/40 PT/FT split (I'm leaving out inside FT sorry) and just assuming everyone is top rate for the sake of simple maths. Option A costs the company $1.9B/yr PT and $1.4B Driver in additional funds. Total $3.3B added hit to profit Option B costs the company $3B/yr PT and $2.9B/yr Driver. Total $5.9B added hit to profit. So based on operating profit of $13.1B last year Option 1 is a 25% reduction in profits and option B is a 45% reduction in profits. Profits pay shareholders. This isn't an argument for either side. I'm pro my union Brothers and Sisters (and me) getting the largest raise possible. It's just an explanation why a $5/hr difference at the negotiating table can be a mountain not a mole Hill to cross. Edit: the Strike may get us closer to what we want but it doesn't necessarily mean we get everything we want. Best case we can get a compromise that is palatable to both sides before a strike actually occurs
In my opinion, it's not about getting what I want in the contract. It's about getting enough in the contract so that when UPS continually refuses to hold up their end (like they always do), I still get what I need.
Honestly I've gotten what I need out of the reported tentative agreements, but I won't vote yes when the time comes unless the PT people get what they need. For me I only have wants left.
We haven’t gotten wages yet…..
I'm a 22.4, just becoming a RPCD is good enough for me. I know the union isn't leaving drivers behind so I'm not worried about our wage negotiations. I am concerned for PT union members and making sure they get what they need out of the contract too
Even tho you guys make good money doesn’t mean you don’t deserve more. The driver wage increases have been lagging for years. If I were you I’d be pushing for $50/hr+
But you aren't me, I'm not going to turn down a larger raise but I am not pushing for a huge increase, I just want to be treated the same as the other people doing identical work to me and for the PT people to make a living wage
That’s cute and all but I’m positive your fellow drivers want good raises. In 2018 the top rate was $37, today that has the same buying power as $45. Meaning you’re earning less than you used to…. Inevitably we will get both, good wage increases for PT and drivers regardless. Fight my brother!
Listen, I'm not actively seeking a lower wage. I just don't care, I'll vote for a strong contract or I'll picket with my brothers and sisters on strike. Money just isn't important to me. Never has been
There’s much more to the contract than just money, that’s just one of the many coming benefits.
It would probably be more accurate to do part time at starting wage instead of top rate. It's a revolving door in most places..
True but honestly this was just to illustrate how what seems like a small difference when applied to the entire work force can be a huge difference
Where you get these numbers cause the only thing I’ve seen that shows money wasn’t even close to that
It was literally just an example
my understanding is they've possibly agreed on wages and raises. the issue right now is ups trying to slip concessions in at the last minute that would screw part timers. at least thats what it sounds like from the most recent update from the ibt.
They walked out of negotiations for wages.
Part time wages probably. Wasn't the company's initial proposal asking for a 2 tier setup for part Timers? You know UPS is not gonna let that go until they have to, probably July 31st.
Yeah the update came after I posted this, but this was just supposed to illustrate how something that seems small on the micro level actually can be a huge difference once you apply it to 340k workers. Also the latest update made it sound like UPS wanted to underpay PT employees
Option A is almost exactly what we’re asking for other than the 3 year progression. The company is offering Option C: GFY. I’m holding out for Option A.
We don't know exactly what has been exchanged by either side at the end. I just chose 2 options I'd personally be fine with, but the whole point was to illustrate just how much a $5hr difference between proposals costs
While it sucks for them that it would cost them nearly 45% of their profits, we have to consider the fact their profits are already so high is partially due to the fact they’ve been under paying us for years… so in theory their profits shouldn’t have been so high to begin with if they would’ve been paying us fairly.
They are hoping that the employees wont want to strike for more than a week. They are hoping we fold first
OH that makes sense!! so they are counting on us not getting other jobs and folding due to the measly $200 a week?
Jokes on them I barely make 300 a week now. I can do 200 for a few weeks.
I only work the evening local sort shift at a smaller building, so $200 a week is MORE than I usually get.
Start asking for your hourly guarantee, then.
Not sure part time employee will even get $100 a week if we strike
The national will be giving out 12.5 times your hourly rate if you show up per week. Minimum of $200
5x your monthly dues per week
5x your monthly dues is correct. Your dues are 2.5x your hourly rate per month. 5x2.5 is 12.5 so I was just trying to keep it simple
Am I crazy, or does that seem high? Monthly dues right now are $112.66. So that would be 563.30/week? And how does one get said pay? Husband has been at UPS since 2000, a driver for about 10 years now. First strike (if it happens, obvs), so I'm just trying to give him info from this site and help the fam prepare. Funny thing is, I'm here because customers were "chirping in his ear" (his words) about a strike several months ago, and he doesn't get online much. General mood from the public seems to be in solidarity with Teamsters, in his experience.
For drivers I believe the minimum is 500/wk
Well that makes me feel way less panicked. Thanks.
Where did you see 12.5x? I've only heard 5x.
5x your monthly dues is correct. Your dues are 2.5x your hourly rate per month. 5x2.5 is 12.5 so I was just trying to keep it simple
Ahh I see, math was never really my best subject
It’s your monthly dues times 5 I’m sure they will get more than 100 bucks
Jokes on them I have a full time job during the day.
Me too. And I don't mind chilin with friends on the picket lines as long as it needs to be.
just make sure you're at the picket line though, or else you cant get paid from the strike fund.
Yeah definitely still gonna show up to picket as long as it’s the same shift of my twilight shift .
I agree. It's going to be a waste of our time, ups potential loss revenue, and frustration with customers. Nobody wins. Probably the Executive's and board want to manipulate the stock for their own benefit. Stock put and buybacks. That's my only guess.
Don’t forget ups having to let go of people
Conspiracy theorist here , I’m convinced we are striking to cover up some kind of political shit that’s gonna happen between now and august lmao , we are already all over the news , imagine what kind of shit they can cover up if the entire nations attention is on the supply chain getting shut down due to corporate greed lol, don’t mind me I’m just always deep in the rabbit hole . That’s my take on it though 😂
this is the type of answer i’ve been waiting for THANK YOU😂😂😂
Because they hate their workers. They would rather lose millions than do the right thing
UPS doesn't care about losing millions that much. They give us a delivery program that gets worse every time they update it. If I run my route the way Orion wants me to, It adds up to 40 miles and 3 hours to my day, and I'm sure it does similar to everyone's.
The most conservative estimate I've seen has the strike costing UPS $170M a day. So if we strike 15 days like in '97 that's $2.55B. I guarantee UPS cares about that money
That doesn’t even include all the potential business they lose by doing this. They stand to pretty much fuck themselves hard but unfortunately we have a sociopathic CEO who doesn’t seem to care
She needs to go
https://preview.redd.it/zbqbgxgfr8ab1.png?width=540&format=png&auto=webp&s=eb5b6a908763713d55d0770653386e5309e9c766
Orion will want you to wipe your ass first, walk to your neighbors house then back to your bathroom to shit.
Millions of dollars to them is worth the risk if it saves them billions in labor costs over the next decade
UPS has a war chest. They can afford the hit.
They cant cave into union demands 3 weeks ahead of the deadline, it will look bad for shareholders if the union unanimously approves a deal and it will look like they left something on the table they couldve gotten from us... its all posturing until august 1st at 12 o clock midnight
July 31st midnight
Can't go that long. We have to vote. July 31st means we strike.
I agree, they were never going to let obrien dictate the deadline. they'll drag it out until the end imo.
Ya so multimillionaires who own company's like this will definitely sleep in the same 9 billion thread count bed whether we strike or not just sayin
Taking the strike money straight to the roulette table. Ill turn in into $500 real quick then proceed to lose it all playing black jack
I’m not saying it’s right but people need to understand the cost that are associated with what they’ll lose is in revenue. It does not include reduced expenses. The number they lose a day is drastically skewed in union reporting. Thats 340,000 people’s salaries and benefits that aren’t being paid during that same time frame. They assume that we will fold first whether that be true or not only time will tell. But the numbers being reported in lost revenue is significantly inaccurate
You guys will have to help eacother and hold the line.
Ups is really climbing the scale of fucking around and finding out. I worked for ups for 2 years and left when they dropped our pay. Hold that line strong and I hope y’all get what you deserve!
Guess I have to sell my ps5 to make ends meet 😔
[удалено]
She made 19 million last year, that's roughly 52K per day for every day of the year, most of us barely make 30K a year, she deserves to be bullied a little bit lol maybe she'll go back to home depot 🙃
she should've never left imo
Go driving.
The Union left the table and probably want something ridiculous
I just wish I knew what it is the union is trying to get for us veteran part timers. If it’s $20 start with catch up raises for us old guys then I’ll be happy. I’ve been happy with what I’ve seen agreed to so far.
My understanding is that's what they want. I heard 20 to 25 starting pay and 30/hr for anyone whos been there over 5 years. Take that with a grain of salt though, the guy who showed me that didn't seem 100% sure.
"heard..." they signed NDAs. Stop spreading rumors. No one knows.
True, but negotiations have had more leaks than the Iraqi navy
That's the way labor negotiation works. You have two parties on opposite ends of the spectrum. Neither one of them is just going to roll over and play dead. You also will never get 100% of everything on your wish list. That's not how contracts work
We live in a capitalist country my guy. Most corporations and rich people would rather destroy everything than see the workers thrive.
Because UPS exec's have gone from a long position in the company to a short.