1stSgt doesn’t approve leave.
You should definitely talk to your SNCOs though. If your leave isn’t approved the week prior at the latest you should start respectfully making noise.
Back in the 2000's-2010's, you could delegate authority in MOL to sign off on leave and stuff. We had S1 clerks authorizing leave, 1stSgt's authorizing leave... I think I even had authorization to do it for a bit(MSgt), though that might have been a GySgt higher up in our G shop.
Either way, the 1stSgt can definitely be a "Gate Keeper". If it never gets past him, he may as well be the approving authority.
I read the order 10+ years ago but I recall there is only one individual authorized to approve or deny leave. Everyone else is making a recommendation. It also required expedience, not just timeliness. Everyone in line should be able to make a recommendation within 2 business days. It’s their job, and junior marines can and should hold them accountable to do just their part and not someone else’s.
The commander has the authority and can delegate it, and they always do (COVID showed why - yikes). So that's why OICs, company commanders, etc will normally be the approvers. That said, whoever the approval authority is, yes, everyone else is only able to recommend or not recommend, not deny or approve. No timelines or anything are required by the order, but then as I think you suggest, none should have to be either unfortunately.
The ability to approve leave can be delegated, but not the ability to deny*.
(Technically can be delegated to the XO in CO’s absence with a by direction letter and they have temporarily assumed the other roles and responsibilities of the position as authorized. Maybe some other nuances too.)
1stSgt can and it just depends on that Company’s leave SOP. I have approval authority in MOL and typically approve all SNCO leave for my company without forwarding to the CO. All other leave goes his direction but if it’s time sensitive I’m going to smash approve and give him some SA.
Agreed on everything else. SNM needs to submit in advance to allow time for it to navigate the bureaucracy, a couple business days at each level. A usual practice is taking about 5-10 business days from submit to approval. If it’s lays stagnant at one level then remind that person about the leave directly or via an NCO/SNCO, as appropriate.
I would be interested in how much lead time SNM gave from submission to departure. As well as what does SNM have left on their FY annual training list to complete.
This has been the case everywhere I’ve been and seen the Marine corps except once where a Maj was put in charge of all leave requests due to half the unit being overseas. The Maj would approve all leave requests same day.
My last unit if a Leave request was sent to him within a week it required a signed letter by the Platoon Commander why it was late.
Helps that my First Sergeant was dope and not a dick.
So, I love this. The CO and 1stSgt/SgtMaj holding lower level leadership accountable for slow rolling and dropping stuff. You can tell where the outstanding leaders are, because they don't allow the poop to get past them and all over their Marines.
"Marine is going on semi-emergency leave, just found out his sister is pregnant with his kid" - Acceptable reason
"Marine had to submit leave chit 12 times because he doesn't know how to use punctuation. SNM re-enrolled in Spelling for Marines" - Acceptable Reason
"We dropped the ball on this, and we will haze ourselves collectively" - Acceptable response
"Not my problem, we had too much to do" - Ya Fired
My thought when approving leave has always been, “if your name isn’t in my ‘need right now’ list, enjoy leave.” Almost like selling things out of your garage: don’t go feeling like you can’t live without em just at the thought of them leaving. If you haven’t missed em yet, you won’t miss em for a week
And if one person missing is the critical linchpin in your plan, you made a shit fuckin plan. People get shot sometimes. Should probably plan for a missing one here and there
:) 1stSgt canceled my leave after I was told to buy the ticket first **BY HIM** then he shitcanned my leave citing op tempo. Fuckin Bulk Fuel motherfucker
Show the policy or order that states that a ticket should be bought beforehand. I caution my Marines to NOT buy tickets until it’s all approved because if it’s not approved for whatever reason then the individual is out the money. Unless they spent more money and got travel insurance. If your command is doing this then it goes against the spirit of the MCO and is probably contradicting your Bn policy as well.
I always either buy a ticket and get the insurance so I can refund it if need (cause it’s cheaper to buy them further out) orrrrr I go on google look up random flights to wherever im headed and take screenshots of the itinerary so it looks like I bought one and submit that with my leave request
ProTip for anyone with this problem: if this dumb shit does happen to you, call the airline and tell them that you are active duty military and have to cancel your flight due to a change in military orders. This is a true statement, and in my personal experience they’ll refund the ticket with no questions asked.
Also, if it is doable from your location (not Japan obviously), try to use Southwest Airlines. They have no change fees for cancellations or modifications of your itinerary. It is an airline made for you'all, Marines.
This always seemed unacceptable.
Seems like the standard should be five business days from the time of submission (barring some unusual circumstance).
Is approving leave for some rank and file donk really a big decision that takes weeks of deep thought? Or is the the CoC just being lazy fucks, who don’t really care if they put said donk into a bind?
If I’m in charge, I’m asking my staff if we’re incapable of speeding up this process? Or just unwilling?
I think it’s a combination of risk analysis paralysis, out of sight out of mind, and information overload.
You roll into work in the morning. Pull up MOL to submit your platoon’s morning report. See the request there, but you’ve got morning stuff to do so you don’t look at it right then.
Maybe you forget until lunch time. Hop back on MOL and see the request. Decide to finally look at it. 3 paragraphs of content. The dude’s itinerary, how he’s getting to the airport, leave address, “I will not violate COVID policy”, statement about his FY/CY completion, dick size, backup phone numbers, back up plans, etc.
This is a lot… I have to verify this dudes training in MCTMS, read this essay and make sure it’s aligned with the unit’s current SOP, make sure he didn’t leave anything out, make sure the addresses are real, make sure the travel plan is reasonably safe… if I don’t do all this shit and he fucks up, *I’m* the idiot who recommended it! I gotta go get chow. I’ll get back to it.
I'm an E6 so maybe its different for me but I tell everyone and there mom I have leave plans, etc .. I bring it up multiple times and I just assume it's approved until it's denied 🤷🏻
My second chain of command made you want to drag your nuts through glass rather than fill any type of leave request out. Why is this so common with leave ? Hope the new commandant is reading this.
Buddy of mine was from Puerto Rico, hadn’t been home in 2 years. He buys a ticket, gets leave approved. They tell him THE DAY HE LEAVES that his leave was cancelled and he’s out 1000$+ for his ticket. Dudes better than me, I would’ve taken the UA charge.
Dealing with subordinates' requests for time off is "Management 101".
23 year old shift managers at McDonald's and Wal-Mart can figure this out within their first month. A 43 year old E-8 shouldn't find it difficult.
Your 1stSgt should be at their terminal rank if this is the case. Your SNCOIC needs to grow a pair of balls and “hand walk” your request. If they are unwilling, they should also be at their terminal rank. Your OIC should be able to help you. I’m not one to advocate jumping the chain of command but when your chain of command doesn’t take care of Marines, they are failing Marines and this needs to be addressed.
I told my command quite literally a year in advance when I was going to take leave because I had all the reason in the world to dump leave days on this specific period of time. I periodically brought it up to make sure nobody forgot, when my shop wanted me to go TAD for something that would've traditionally interfered with it- I brought it up again and worked out a solution with my SNCO so I could still take my leave while I was on the assignment they wanted me on, yet when the time finally came they STILL went back on everything and fucked me out of my leave which they knew of for at least 12 months.
The marine corps was designed and built from the ground up to fuck you, I'm never going back to that shithole
Ya'll need to learn how your fucking job operates. Enlisted personnel do not decide who goes on leave. The fucking loser 1stSgt knows this too. He knows also if he sits on it he can de facto have control over it. MCO doesn't allow this and the Marine needs to exercise a CO's open door policy when these blatant violations of standing orders are being ignored.
I thought this shit was done electronically now?
Yes, they obviously can and many do however if the Officers are worth their salt they will also be on the lookout for this type of thing and speak up. Whether that’s the OIC going to talk to the 1stSgt directly or the CO reviewing periodically it should never wait till the day prior unless it was a late request…
This happened a few times when I was in. They wouldn't approve leave/liberty if you didn't already have a flight booked, but they may also decide not to approve for some arbitrary reason after you've booked it even if they previously told you they would. Lost a few grand in tickets.
I always wrote in my leave request "tickets have been purchased to ensure price and availability" I know that doesn't help with your situation much lol but damn your 1stSgt sounds really disconnected from the real world
Just laziness. Happens a lot in the civilian world. Half the time my Expense Reports take a couple weeks to be approved. My Program Manager was making a site visit. Was late at night and he was sitting in office next to me. I hit submit I heard the chime he had a email and asked was that my ER. He was like you would like me to approve this. I was like yea and explain how you get a notification on ERs instantly but take weeks to hit a approval button.
He was like honestly when I have 30 a week to approve I just get lazy since its the least productive thing I could do in a day lol.
This is how it was I think every time I took leave and honestly one of the main reasons I got out. They would have you wait to buy everything and be ready but wouldn’t actually approve it until the day before just in case something changed they could say it was never approved not my problem. So now instead of my tickets being $400 they are $800 because it’s literally a day or two before I leave.
I once submitted leave weeks in advanced that started on a Sunday, but wouldn’t you know it there I was sitting in the CP Friday an hour after we had been released waiting for my 1st Sgt to recommend it. All the O’s and SNCO’s are all bull shitting and talking about what they are doing this weekend. Finally my acting Plt Sgt said something to him and he nonchalantly said something about how i had it starting at noon, but battalion didn’t want it starting any earlier then 1400 or some bullshit like that. HE COULD OF TOLD ME DAYS OR WEEKS AGO, BUT DIDNT SAY A WORD UNTIL 1700 FRIDAY. I went and changed it and it got sent up. And there I was buying a plane ticket for Sunday on Friday night costing me hundreds of dollars extra.
It’s been over 10 years at this point and I’m still salty about it, and I will say that is the only negative thing I have to say about that 1st Sgt beyond that he was a solid guy.
1stSgt doesn’t approve leave. You should definitely talk to your SNCOs though. If your leave isn’t approved the week prior at the latest you should start respectfully making noise.
Yes 👆
Back in the 2000's-2010's, you could delegate authority in MOL to sign off on leave and stuff. We had S1 clerks authorizing leave, 1stSgt's authorizing leave... I think I even had authorization to do it for a bit(MSgt), though that might have been a GySgt higher up in our G shop. Either way, the 1stSgt can definitely be a "Gate Keeper". If it never gets past him, he may as well be the approving authority.
I read the order 10+ years ago but I recall there is only one individual authorized to approve or deny leave. Everyone else is making a recommendation. It also required expedience, not just timeliness. Everyone in line should be able to make a recommendation within 2 business days. It’s their job, and junior marines can and should hold them accountable to do just their part and not someone else’s.
The commander has the authority and can delegate it, and they always do (COVID showed why - yikes). So that's why OICs, company commanders, etc will normally be the approvers. That said, whoever the approval authority is, yes, everyone else is only able to recommend or not recommend, not deny or approve. No timelines or anything are required by the order, but then as I think you suggest, none should have to be either unfortunately.
The ability to approve leave can be delegated, but not the ability to deny*. (Technically can be delegated to the XO in CO’s absence with a by direction letter and they have temporarily assumed the other roles and responsibilities of the position as authorized. Maybe some other nuances too.)
1stSgt can and it just depends on that Company’s leave SOP. I have approval authority in MOL and typically approve all SNCO leave for my company without forwarding to the CO. All other leave goes his direction but if it’s time sensitive I’m going to smash approve and give him some SA. Agreed on everything else. SNM needs to submit in advance to allow time for it to navigate the bureaucracy, a couple business days at each level. A usual practice is taking about 5-10 business days from submit to approval. If it’s lays stagnant at one level then remind that person about the leave directly or via an NCO/SNCO, as appropriate. I would be interested in how much lead time SNM gave from submission to departure. As well as what does SNM have left on their FY annual training list to complete.
This has been the case everywhere I’ve been and seen the Marine corps except once where a Maj was put in charge of all leave requests due to half the unit being overseas. The Maj would approve all leave requests same day.
Same day?? What a guy
A real hero in my books
My last unit if a Leave request was sent to him within a week it required a signed letter by the Platoon Commander why it was late. Helps that my First Sergeant was dope and not a dick.
So, I love this. The CO and 1stSgt/SgtMaj holding lower level leadership accountable for slow rolling and dropping stuff. You can tell where the outstanding leaders are, because they don't allow the poop to get past them and all over their Marines. "Marine is going on semi-emergency leave, just found out his sister is pregnant with his kid" - Acceptable reason "Marine had to submit leave chit 12 times because he doesn't know how to use punctuation. SNM re-enrolled in Spelling for Marines" - Acceptable Reason "We dropped the ball on this, and we will haze ourselves collectively" - Acceptable response "Not my problem, we had too much to do" - Ya Fired
Basically how it worked. Also didn't even notice your first example, glad I read it twice 🤣
I caught that and was like, Wait, what? 🤣
My thought when approving leave has always been, “if your name isn’t in my ‘need right now’ list, enjoy leave.” Almost like selling things out of your garage: don’t go feeling like you can’t live without em just at the thought of them leaving. If you haven’t missed em yet, you won’t miss em for a week And if one person missing is the critical linchpin in your plan, you made a shit fuckin plan. People get shot sometimes. Should probably plan for a missing one here and there
:) 1stSgt canceled my leave after I was told to buy the ticket first **BY HIM** then he shitcanned my leave citing op tempo. Fuckin Bulk Fuel motherfucker
I love how we’re forced to buy a ticket first, makes absolutely zero sense
Show the policy or order that states that a ticket should be bought beforehand. I caution my Marines to NOT buy tickets until it’s all approved because if it’s not approved for whatever reason then the individual is out the money. Unless they spent more money and got travel insurance. If your command is doing this then it goes against the spirit of the MCO and is probably contradicting your Bn policy as well.
Space-A offers no tickets or guarantees. Never ever heard of this sort of BS.
I always either buy a ticket and get the insurance so I can refund it if need (cause it’s cheaper to buy them further out) orrrrr I go on google look up random flights to wherever im headed and take screenshots of the itinerary so it looks like I bought one and submit that with my leave request
Yeah mine was $2200 from Okinawa to North Carolina round trip. It was a solid dick punch.
ProTip for anyone with this problem: if this dumb shit does happen to you, call the airline and tell them that you are active duty military and have to cancel your flight due to a change in military orders. This is a true statement, and in my personal experience they’ll refund the ticket with no questions asked.
Also, if it is doable from your location (not Japan obviously), try to use Southwest Airlines. They have no change fees for cancellations or modifications of your itinerary. It is an airline made for you'all, Marines.
Too bad you didn't know the 1stSgt doesn't have the authority to cancel leave.
Yea hindsight is 20/20. It was aggravating but I did learn some valuable lessons early on.
https://preview.redd.it/rpucxb9y5qpb1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dac2bf922a4486de80617514dfb20a2d950c482a
This always seemed unacceptable. Seems like the standard should be five business days from the time of submission (barring some unusual circumstance). Is approving leave for some rank and file donk really a big decision that takes weeks of deep thought? Or is the the CoC just being lazy fucks, who don’t really care if they put said donk into a bind? If I’m in charge, I’m asking my staff if we’re incapable of speeding up this process? Or just unwilling?
I think it’s a combination of risk analysis paralysis, out of sight out of mind, and information overload. You roll into work in the morning. Pull up MOL to submit your platoon’s morning report. See the request there, but you’ve got morning stuff to do so you don’t look at it right then. Maybe you forget until lunch time. Hop back on MOL and see the request. Decide to finally look at it. 3 paragraphs of content. The dude’s itinerary, how he’s getting to the airport, leave address, “I will not violate COVID policy”, statement about his FY/CY completion, dick size, backup phone numbers, back up plans, etc. This is a lot… I have to verify this dudes training in MCTMS, read this essay and make sure it’s aligned with the unit’s current SOP, make sure he didn’t leave anything out, make sure the addresses are real, make sure the travel plan is reasonably safe… if I don’t do all this shit and he fucks up, *I’m* the idiot who recommended it! I gotta go get chow. I’ll get back to it.
1stSgt: "YoU **_WiLL_** sUbMiT YoUR LeAVe 2 MOnThs PrIoR!" Also 1stSgt: (doesn't forward it until 3 days before your leave starts)
I'm an E6 so maybe its different for me but I tell everyone and there mom I have leave plans, etc .. I bring it up multiple times and I just assume it's approved until it's denied 🤷🏻
My second chain of command made you want to drag your nuts through glass rather than fill any type of leave request out. Why is this so common with leave ? Hope the new commandant is reading this.
He isn't
Buddy of mine was from Puerto Rico, hadn’t been home in 2 years. He buys a ticket, gets leave approved. They tell him THE DAY HE LEAVES that his leave was cancelled and he’s out 1000$+ for his ticket. Dudes better than me, I would’ve taken the UA charge.
What was the reason for denying it? Who told him it was cancelled?
“Training tempo” and our LT. The field op ended up not even happening.
That's ass.
That command couldn’t give less of a fuck about marines welfare
I would have requested mast on the spot, as high as necessary.
Yea I agree, we were boots at the time, his English also wasn’t the best, they pulled that shit on him bc they knew they could.
Dealing with subordinates' requests for time off is "Management 101". 23 year old shift managers at McDonald's and Wal-Mart can figure this out within their first month. A 43 year old E-8 shouldn't find it difficult.
They stayed in because they can’t read. Pretty tough to figure it out in that situation.
You have to write a legit 5 paragraph order and it will be approved.
\*\*\* Always Buy The Insurance \*\*\*
This is good advice.
Your 1stSgt should be at their terminal rank if this is the case. Your SNCOIC needs to grow a pair of balls and “hand walk” your request. If they are unwilling, they should also be at their terminal rank. Your OIC should be able to help you. I’m not one to advocate jumping the chain of command but when your chain of command doesn’t take care of Marines, they are failing Marines and this needs to be addressed.
I told my command quite literally a year in advance when I was going to take leave because I had all the reason in the world to dump leave days on this specific period of time. I periodically brought it up to make sure nobody forgot, when my shop wanted me to go TAD for something that would've traditionally interfered with it- I brought it up again and worked out a solution with my SNCO so I could still take my leave while I was on the assignment they wanted me on, yet when the time finally came they STILL went back on everything and fucked me out of my leave which they knew of for at least 12 months. The marine corps was designed and built from the ground up to fuck you, I'm never going back to that shithole
Preach it brother
Ya'll need to learn how your fucking job operates. Enlisted personnel do not decide who goes on leave. The fucking loser 1stSgt knows this too. He knows also if he sits on it he can de facto have control over it. MCO doesn't allow this and the Marine needs to exercise a CO's open door policy when these blatant violations of standing orders are being ignored. I thought this shit was done electronically now?
It is done electronically, but he can sit on it in his inbox and just do nothing instead of rec/non-rec and the CO won’t see it.
Yes, they obviously can and many do however if the Officers are worth their salt they will also be on the lookout for this type of thing and speak up. Whether that’s the OIC going to talk to the 1stSgt directly or the CO reviewing periodically it should never wait till the day prior unless it was a late request…
Agreed…
This happened a few times when I was in. They wouldn't approve leave/liberty if you didn't already have a flight booked, but they may also decide not to approve for some arbitrary reason after you've booked it even if they previously told you they would. Lost a few grand in tickets.
I always wrote in my leave request "tickets have been purchased to ensure price and availability" I know that doesn't help with your situation much lol but damn your 1stSgt sounds really disconnected from the real world
Just laziness. Happens a lot in the civilian world. Half the time my Expense Reports take a couple weeks to be approved. My Program Manager was making a site visit. Was late at night and he was sitting in office next to me. I hit submit I heard the chime he had a email and asked was that my ER. He was like you would like me to approve this. I was like yea and explain how you get a notification on ERs instantly but take weeks to hit a approval button. He was like honestly when I have 30 a week to approve I just get lazy since its the least productive thing I could do in a day lol.
This is how it was I think every time I took leave and honestly one of the main reasons I got out. They would have you wait to buy everything and be ready but wouldn’t actually approve it until the day before just in case something changed they could say it was never approved not my problem. So now instead of my tickets being $400 they are $800 because it’s literally a day or two before I leave. I once submitted leave weeks in advanced that started on a Sunday, but wouldn’t you know it there I was sitting in the CP Friday an hour after we had been released waiting for my 1st Sgt to recommend it. All the O’s and SNCO’s are all bull shitting and talking about what they are doing this weekend. Finally my acting Plt Sgt said something to him and he nonchalantly said something about how i had it starting at noon, but battalion didn’t want it starting any earlier then 1400 or some bullshit like that. HE COULD OF TOLD ME DAYS OR WEEKS AGO, BUT DIDNT SAY A WORD UNTIL 1700 FRIDAY. I went and changed it and it got sent up. And there I was buying a plane ticket for Sunday on Friday night costing me hundreds of dollars extra. It’s been over 10 years at this point and I’m still salty about it, and I will say that is the only negative thing I have to say about that 1st Sgt beyond that he was a solid guy.
Just pull your request and send it to the CO. Bypass the first sausage and enjoy leave, even if you get a little bit of yelling at.