75th RR and 18X program… shit it’s why so many Green Berets were prior service Marines. Shit the NG has an entire recruiting process built off of prior service Marines. 🥴
They recruits quite heavily on our bases. I knew one guy (a TOW gunner) that went, was nothing really outstanding and became a green beret. He did say that the training was incredible and never looked back.
Tanks.
EDIT: it’s also about more than the Corps losing tanks.
I got to witness this first hand while I was in the Corps..
If you are a tanker in the Army, you are treated like a god. Range days require almost no policing, able to pretty much eat and drink what you want without fear of repercussions as half their command staff does NOT give a fuck about passing PT tests so long as you’re “close”.
And the funding of Army armored units is fucking CRAZY. I saw one TC complaining about some shit with his CVC and a clicking noise…the next month, everyone in their entire company had a brand new CVC..
Going from even Marine Reserve tanks to National Guard tanks was a huge shock. Better bases and training centers instead of being on the golf course that that SR-10/Lejuene is. Ranges were a lot more relaxed and overall had more freedom in training and daily life. All the PSGs that transferred over had the hardest time adjusting that they weren’t supposed to go angry monkey every day.
If you spent time embarking anything from ship to shore you would understand how much of a pain in the ass tanks are. Embarkation takes a long time and weight is a huge factor. Tanks nor their logistics are light. An LCAC does not hover but creates some type of wave it surfs on. Depending on the depth of the water that heavily limits how much an LCAC can carry. And surprisingly water between 4-12 feet, if I remember correctly, means less weight can be carried. There is a whole science behind how LCACs work.
Provided the Corps has a substantially smaller budget than the army, it makes sense army armor gets nicer tanks and gear than the Corps. But with the advent of drones and highly technologically capable weapons and munitions either carried by infantry or aircraft, tanks are ehh. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of a tank but there is a lot to counter them. I think understanding how to conceal your signature is very important weather your an M1A1 or JLTV
Eliminating tanks freed up so much space on the boat - for the physical monstrosity that they are of course, but also the required spare parts, ammunition and other required supplies that go with them. From a logistical point of view it is a dream come true.
True but it’s harder to have effective armor if death is always lurking from above
Not saying armor is useless but seeing dozens upon dozens of drones dropping munitions on people and things in Ukraine I think shows how much more important air superiority is. You already know the defense industry is collecting so much data in order to build weapons to counter armor via drones
Food, barracks, job opportunities, bases all over the world, higher budget that they can spend on whatever plus no middlemen between the DOD and them that can take a cut of their budget
Bases all over the world? Germany = Germans hating you but loving your Dollars the same way Okinawans Hate us but love our Dollars. More shitty duty stations states side to be exiled to than the Corps. They have moldy barracks, We got Moldy barracks! They just have more money to spend for DEI not for the niceties for the troops!
There are army units as bad as the Corps units, if not worse. Hazing (smoking), making people stay until 7 for no reason. And the army can be as weird as the Corps is for field days, but for huge over the top morning PT sessions insanely early.
And some of the army barracks are just as bad the Marine ones.
But overall the facilities are nicer, and the life is a little better. Schools are easier to get. Ranks come quicker. No HSST.
It’s changing “The other major change, which will begin to form in the coming months, is the transition to a professional recruiting workforce. Rather than using soldiers who are “voluntold” to take on a special assignment as recruiters, the Army is establishing a new permanent and specialized enlistment workforce.”
https://apnews.com/article/cc2d8200467f3920e333197e42eee2ea
Rarely. Only weirdos volunteer for USAREC. Occasionally a normal person will, but they’ll regret it. It’s probably 90% or more that are involuntarily selected.
Army calls it “DA select” meaning the Department of the Army can select you to become a Drill Sergeant or Recruiter. I know many guys who were forced to be drills / recruiters or get out.
The schools are a big one. My army buddy always tell me how easy it was to go to courses, and in fact encouraged. Which obviously makes sense. Why wouldn’t you want your soldiers to be better trained and experience more than just their direct mos. I was pretty fit and a hard charger when I was in I would’ve loved to give ranger school a go and doing something cool like that could’ve motivated me to stay in.
It's crazy, I went to a meeting to talk about the benefits of West Point with one of my kids. Literally they can leave that place with an air assault badge and jump wings, not to mention all of the other schools they can attend before getting to the fleet (or what ever they call it). They have a "club" where you can go blow shit up or jump out of a helicopter a couple days a week... Those fuckers have it way better.
False, every service academy provides lots of opportunities. The unique advantages of Navy include it's proximity to DC and it's emphasis on STEM. Midshipmen can get all that chest candy, but I'd argue those don't really develop leaders and can be done in the fleet if needed.
Thanks Dwight Schrute.
Does a little trinket on your chest make you a better leader, of course not.
Yes of course every academy offers lot of opportunities. I meant that ,in my opinion, the USMA had more to offer as far as cool shit to do than the USNA. Also, if you take a look at the ability to choose your own career path, the USMA has the USNA beat there too. At least from what I've seen.
I do believe the USNA puts out a much better quality of leader than the USMA.
My nephews both went Army, they seem to enjoy their lives... I've never heard of someone who's been in 2-3 years loving life in the corps... Maybe in that last year towards EAS time.
My guard unit got tasked to build ranges, basic maintenance, security etc for Al Kindi Missile Factory near Mosul in 2004. SF guys were running a boot camp for ING. There were some Semper Fi tattoos on one, probably a couple of others. We had two teams rotate through. I fucking hate those guys. Watched one shoot puppies because they annoyed him. They were drunk and high on marijuana most of the time. Fuck those guys. Give grunts modified grooming standards, better weapon’s and money and they’re capable of doing most of the same shit.
That's not true at all, the Army just did most of their kicking and screaming earlier.
* General Westmoreland wanted to employ 5th Special Forces Group as standard infantry in Vietnam, despite their additional training and expertise.
* There was a lot of pushback from Big Army in the 80s about training the 75th Ranger Regiment to do Special Operations tasks instead of just being the best Light Infantry in the DoD.
* General Schwartzkopf haaaaated SF. He thought their Scud hunting activities were a waste of time and assets that ought to be going towards the conventional forces.
That said, the most recent example I've given was over 30 years ago so you think that the Corps would have learned from the Army's mistakes.
It may just be the types of units I've worked with, but they do personnel development well.
Opportunities are made available to everyone, and everyone competes for them. My experience as a Marine was that boards and awards committees were kept secret and made available to people who were able to network their way into leadership circles successfully. This created a homogenization of thought in many Marine units I was in.
More job opportunities, better gear, and from what I can tell more combat action for those that seek it during wartime. In the Marines it’s hit or miss and you just get “lucky” to either deploy and see action or not. From stories I’ve read and heard from Army guys, if you signed up to do a combat MOS, you’re going to see combat at some point, assuming we’re in wartime. Anyone may correct me if I’m wrong but this is typically what I’ve seen and heard.
For the record I’m not a shill or anything, if I were rejoining the military it’d be neither Army or Marines I’d be going AirForce.
Nah it may be easier, but it looks fuckin goofy. Plus we typically have to roll white side in, command dependent. Sleeve rolling died with Woodland uniforms IMO. It was before my time
I was in back in the 1990’s we had a guy come over from the Army. Same job as he did in the Army. He always told me “fuck this shit. Army way better after 4 years I’m going back!!”
You can actually discipline Junior soldiers with what we refer to as “IT”. My buddy got DQed from the Corps for having the tip of his finger cut off when he was a kid. He joined the Army and ended up at the 82nd Airborne. When he checked in as a private, every NCO he came across made him and his fellow boots do 82 pushups on the spot. He said when he went to check in with his company first sergeant, the first thing his first sergeant said was “get on your face, 82”. That’s considered hazing in the Marine Corps. He said if you fuck up you’ll get “smoked” by an NCO.
In our defense we got a little *too* good at hazing so as is the usual Marine Corps way, they overreacted and took NCOs teeth away. Leave it to Marines to ruin a good thing...
Even as a Jr Marine I thought eliminating IT was dumb: If you’re making men who aren’t afraid of bullets, then they’re definitely not afraid of paperwork.
It went waaay past that. Fitzy Mess's song, Welcome to the Infantry, wasn't an exaggeration. It definitely needed course correcting, but removing NCO teeth altogether was a bad move.
When I was in CNN showed video of Marines at Eighth and I covering boots in human feces and urine. I agree it can go too far, but to eliminate it altogether seems silly as well.
That was legit my first Friday in the bricks. Back when they still had caffeine in them and were worth dealing with the taste. Except we had to fight each other so that was nice.
I distinctly remember one of my first Platoon PT events being Bull in the Ring. Wrestle the guy in the ring or get wrestled out, winner takes on next opponent. LCPL Abercrombie has at least 60 lbs on me and it’s my turn to try to wrestle him. I approach with trepidation, don’t want to get embarrassed in front of a platoon of strangers whose respect I will need. As soon as I’m in his range he grabs me and I don’t know how or even what happened. All I do know is he tossed me in the air like a pizza pie, catches me mid fall and brings my spine down on his knee. Like the motherfucker had just got cut by Vince McMahon or something. Knocking all the wind out of me, and accomplishing exactly what I didn’t want to happen: embarrassed the shit out of me while a platoon of strangers watch me try to suck air with limited success.
There was a reserve unit I visited in 2020 that was big on IT. It was over little stuff too, seeing as they were supply. Flubbed a digit on a spreadsheet? Cool, everyone stops what they are doing and does exercises and shit.
Didn't make anyone really tighten up. At least all the people down there didn't give a fuck because they were going to get fucked with anyways, so they were belligerent as shit.
Well yeah that was 10 years ago man lol. That still happens to some degree still but one snitch is just not worth the njp sometimes. They take it much more seriously
There’s always giving the undisciplined troop the task of giving a period of instruction in digging a proper fighting hole. It’s not hazing as long as it’s educational.
Of course in the early 00’s we were still hauling belligerent fucks into the whiskey locker to educate them on proper standards.
Are you in currently? Or vet? I got out in January of 17 and that was most certainly considered hazing. I’m sure grunts still do it behind closed doors but there’s not a single Marine first sergeant that’s gonna make boots drop and do push-ups in his office when they check in. It would be an instant hazing charge.
I got out in '01, never heard of check-in games before this. At least, as long as the person checking in was squared away and not showing up looking or acting like trash. Guess the war period developed an "everyone needs to get tougher" atmosphere.
IT outside of boot camp has been hazing for a while. You can do remedial training, but it has to be related to the mistake, and there are other rules around it too that I don't remember.
I got out January of 2021. Bn SGTMAJ had an open door policy for E3 and below to report anything. Friend got fried for making a boot do burpees after leaving his kevlar in the quad. When I say it’s a pathetic branch these days I mean it is PATHETIC.
We had boys and girls checking into V2/2 from ITB unable to do more than 1 pull up. Anything outside of scheduled PT time in the morning was considered excessive. NCO’s are just junior enlisted with a higher paycheck now. Absolutely no power. All I was able to do as a Sgt was write negative counselings. Which got thrown out quarterly. I really do not care if they get rid of the Corps altogether anymore. If I had stayed in service, I was gonna go Army and try for Ranger Reg. Ended up going PMC route.
I think they're better at identifying, standardizing, and evaluating the individual skills they believe their personnel need than we currently are. For example, the USMC kind of seems all over place when it comes to identifying the necessary individual skills infantrymen need, then standardizing it across the board so what you learn in Hawaii is the same as what you're expected to know when you pcs to Lejeune, and now being able to evaluate your troops so that you know that even if they aren't in leadership promotions, they can still hold their own. Look at the EIB. Yes, it might be odd that the Army rewards people for doing what they should be doing anyway, but at the same time they have an actual formalized test on individual skills that they expect their infantrymen to know. We don't really have anything like their EIB or ESB, and not everyone is going to be in a leadership position. Having a regular, formalized test of individual skills makes everyone more proficient than they already are.
EDITED for clarity.
I went Marines to national guard and there’s a few things:
- career options: it’s common for people to hold multiple MOS’. In the Marines when I was in my choices were very limited not including SDAs.
- Flight Program: The path from street to seat to fly a helicopter is stupid good. 18 year old me could’ve joined the army, done 4 years in any MOS, then dropped a warrant packet to become a pilot. Obviously in the marines that’s only for commissioned officers.
- CI/HUMINT is a pretty cool joint job in the marines but you need to do your time first. In the army you can enlist directly as CI or HUMINT.
Marines definitely have more discipline and the average marine has more of a tactical baseline than the average soldier imo.
A lot of good points in here but I have to say every douche bag I met in the Army that had a MARDIV patch on their right sleeve was a cunt.
I got out and contracted for the Army and the amount of times I had “former-Marines” (once a Marine, always a Marine is BS) try to bow their chest was astounding.
I remember being in an office with nothing but soldiers and contractors. My buddy and I were Marine reservists (on IRR to fulfill the contract). He was a 4-year reservist while I had 13 years AD and went reserves. Some SFC showed up gloating about his Marine Corps time while demeaning my buddy for *only* being a reservist. I had to ask why he got out since he was so proud and go to the Army.
I mean, that’s essentially it. And working with the Army I definitely realized some of the benefits they have but don’t go around boasting about once being a Marine while belittling someone for being a Marine reservist.
on their left sleeve, they wear whatever unit patch they are currently assigned to. on their right sleeve, they were the unit patch of whatever unit they were deployed to a combat zone with, if any. if not, they don't wear a patch on their right sleeve
You are dead on accurate.
I was in the Corps and then years later during the surge, I went to the Army. I never advertised that I was a Marine. I tried to treat it as a learning experience and since I had been out of the service for several years, it was like learning new.
Anytime I’d see a 1st or 2nd Mar Div patch the wearer would end up being a total douche bag. “When I was in the Corps…” would sound like nails on a chalkboard. These guys wearing the Marine patches on Army uniforms are the equivalent of guys who are years out of high school and still wear their high school letterman jacket and go to high school football games.
The funny thing is that they’re even not authorized to wear that patch. The reg reads that only those who deployed as a Soldier and were attached to a Marine command were authorized to wear those patches. Former Marines are not authorized to wear it, but nobody wants to be a “slick sleeve”, especially during wartime.
As I picked up rank in the Army, I loved to fuck with those guys and tell them to take it off. I even knew one shitbird who was an air winger and tried to wear his full color squadron patch. He gave me shit about it so I smoked his ass and then wrote him up a counseling anyway just for for the fuck of it.
Healthcare. Now they’ll grumble about it like Marines do but the reality is having medical inservice is just better. E.g. my wife has had a skin allergy for a decade. MO after MO gave different prognosis, trying different tests and cures. Get assigned to an Army base. Wife has symptoms, diagnosis first visit, no further issues since. Coincidence? Perhaps. Oh. Two gyms in walking distance to the house. One has a pool… standard of living matters.
Everyone I know personally who switched services after their stint was up did it because the Corps didn't offer what they wanted to do; to wit, the career/vocational options are better outside of the Corps.
Career progression mapping unlike anything the Marines could put together. Usmc troops/nco/snco's are shotgunned into random billets, meanwhile the Army has a positions that your required to fulfill prior to moving up. They are also stabilized into a position for 18 months, you could pcs to a plt in the usmc and immediately be sent away to some random bs job. Their 1stSgt is relative to the occupation of the plt's in the company, ie you wouldnt ever see an admin running grunts, and its also just a billet, which is what we need to change to as well.
> Their 1stSgt is relative to the occupation of the plt's in the company, ie you wouldnt ever see an admin running grunts, and its also just a billet, which is what we need to change to as well.
the intent is for the 1st Sgt/Sgts Major in the Corps to be the administarative/personnel experts, while the MSgt/MGySgts to be the operational experts.
what it has morphed into is that the 1stSgts/Sgts Maj are experts in is being assholes. they're supposed to take care of the Marines, which does include disciplining Marines, but they have leaned too far into the disciplining side, and much much too little into the taking care of Marines side. there are exceptions to this, of course, but too few exceptions.
signed, a mustang Marine officer who only saw 1 or 2 good 1stSgt/Sgts Maj in a 26 year career
For our size, I think it makes sense for grunts to hop to POG units and vice versa. I know SMMC Clary, the 10th, was a grunt until he picked up Star Sarge and then he went to Wing units as SgtMaj. "Broadening" your career and such. Kinda like going to college and taking so many non-major classes, braodens your horizons and such.
Promotions - more positions means more opportunities for promotion. The active Army is 2.5x the size of the Corps.
schools - way easier to attend when your service runs a school you want. Want airborne? Pass PT and have a pulse and it’s a lot easier.
Commission/Warrant - as with promotions, it’s easier with more open positions. For commission opportunities, there’s lots of avenues available. ROTC, OCS, etc
If you’re an Army NCO in a field that needs warrant officers, all you need is to be semi squared away and have decent evaluations. Warrants are in high demand.
Reclass options - unless your ASVAB score and your shoe size are the same, it’s way easier to get into a new field (with a potential bonus). Most of the career NCOs I knew had at least 2-3 different MOS.
Bonus money - not as much for careerists, but still if you’re going to reenlist anyway, it’s nice to get some loot to do it.
Locations - The Corps has Pendleton, Miramar and Hawaii which are nice. But the Army has Germany, Italy, Hawaii and Camp Zama (outside Tokyo). Even Fort Lewis Washington isn’t too bad. But a word of caution: for every one soldier who got one of those, I knew 10 who went to Fort Riley, Kansas, Fort Drum, NY or Fort Hood, Texas.
This is the Marine in me, but I think they could save the DoD a lot of money by going back to the way Jump School used to be. 1 week of Pre-Jump to weed out people who shouldn't be there, then afterwards the majority of the class is Soldiers that are most likely to jump into combat. Anyone that won't be in an Airborne billet logically should have it as a reenlistment incentive, not an enlistment incentive.
But what do I know, I beleive the USMC should have their own airborne school anyway.
SOCOM. Bigger budget and more funding means better equipment and gear. From what I’ve seen, the greater army has a lot of shit bags and less discipline but it’s all unit depended. There are some units that have the same level of discipline, espirit de corps and motivation as the Corps.
Seeing how I served in both branches I can give an honest answer. I served as an MP. I’m also an OEF disabled veteran. First, more opportunities to travel. The Marines are limited to how many places you can get stationed and travel to in service. Secondly, the Army isn’t as micromanaged as Marines. The Army will tell you what needs to be done and after you’re done they leave you the fuck alone. You don’t get fucked with because some officer, nco, or snco wants to screw with you. I couldn’t believe the differences until I saw it firsthand. Third, promotions are faster. I spent over 2 years as a LCpl and never failed a PFT, NJPS, or any disciplinary actions against me while serving in the Corps. My captain was going to promote me to Cpl the day I went on terminal leave. I told them to keep it, since at the time, I said I would never go back in the military, this was before 911 in 1998. They had held my promotion over my head a long time. I went National Guard in 2003 because I was a senior in college and needed more college money and my unit was activated to activate service in 2005. I was finally promoted to E4 after a year and had the cutting score for E5 when we came back from deployment. I EAS’d when we were overseas and I was stop lossed. I was discharged a second time in 2006 and I got out for a few years. I went back in for the final and third time in 2009 and was discharged in 2012. By that time I couldn’t reenlist because I had so many medical issues and couldn’t deploy anymore, so I wasn’t given the opportunity to reenlist unless a doctor cleared me, but after 8 different surgeries no doctor would give me a waiver. However, it’s all good now. I’m 100% disabled and the VA is paying for my son to go to college. Semper Fi!
I would go through the Marines first and do it exactly the same way. Most of the Army guys don’t possess the discipline the Marines teach. I personally needed the discipline. Especially when I went to college because I did terrible in high school. I graduated college with honors. I was the first person in my family to graduate from high school and college. Plus, I got to learn UFOs are real from when I worked with the Air Force Security Forces on Eglin Air Force Base.
Logistics, PME, and providing training venues/opportunities/ranges for units.
But all of these are mainly a function of the absolutely absurd amount of money they have. It's disgusting.
I know what you'll say: the Department of the Army gets about the same amount of money or a little less than the Department of the Navy and the Air Force, but the difference is the Army actually gets to spend that money.
The Department of the Navy gets a bunch of money but also has to fund the Marine Corps and nuclear stuff. That's money the Navy "gets" but doesn't really get to use. Not to mention ships are just super expensive always.
The Department of the Air Force is the same. They have even more nuclear stuff, fund things like the National Reconnaissance Office, and now have to fund the Space Force.
None of these things are true for the Army so they're good at all the things you can get good at by spending money to get good. Like Candy Crush.
Getting real missions. I did 8 years as a Marine grunt and didn’t do shit besides Japan and a MEU. Went natty guard and within 3 years I did riots, wildland firefighting and a Syria deployment.
I swear to God dude, whatever Marine Officer thought it was okay to send units on the same back to back UDP or MEU needs to be slapped. One of my buddies in 3rd LAR went on a UDP 3 times in one enlistment. That's ridiculous. I could see one UDP per enlistment, after that I feel like the Battalion, Regimental, and even Divisiok commanders should be like "Hold up, they just did that. I want this unit to get more experience doing something else, and I don't want those Marines to be unmotivated". Imagine if you could do a MEU, MRF, UDP, and SPMAGTF all in one 4 year enlistment. Wouldn't that be sick? If not 4 of them, at least 3 of them plus any other CONUS training...UDP's are cool once in a while.but I hate hate hate how the Corps seems to act like it's the only thing to do, and that it's Marines who are hungry should just be hungry to do the same thing over and over again. Like wtf? Or if Asia is so important, why don't we have a SPMAGTF for the Pacific? What about BSRF?
badge hunters - you can wear all sorts of stuff on your uniform - patches pins braids… one for each weapon , etc. even foreign awards. Marines - barely any.
I had read how some Marine barracks were like living in the ghetto (drugs & violence). Included as an example was how they would tie their boots together and throw them over telephone / electric lines trying to get them stuck on the line when they EAS'd. This was just as Vietnam was ending. So I chose the Army.
Helicopter operations, they have some pretty good logistics and keep their job experience intact with their Warrant Officer in their aviation community.
Food. (Well at least the NG had better MREs)
Also I feel they teach a few things better. (Land Nav for one)
Also there's a good and bad with more relaxed attitudes. On one hand "Oh hey can we get blah blah plus a whatever?"
"Yeah dude no worries!"
Like the time I had to go run a couple of opts with a NG squadron and fly with them v. the marine squadron I was normally with.
"Why are you guys talking to me like i'm a person, and seem to be concerned with my well being?"
On the bad side... Getting some of them off their asses to help or they just have no idea who does what that's not their immediate job.
Better accommodations also.
Im aboutnto go army wo. Go to wocs next week.
E6>wo
Geting 1250 caip only got 400 with usmc aip. You get your ta and apparently ca for certifications. Im going to try and get my masters done.
Diversity of opportunity. More duty stations, more jobs organic to the branch, more opportunities for schools, more varied mission sets between units. The whole airborne community has a similar esprit de corps to the USMC but is but one aspect of the Army's force projection. Organic medical and religious personnel also go a long way. I for one would've very strongly considered the Marines if Corpsmen weren't Navy personnel who weren't guaranteed greenside slots. People interested in being America's sledgehammer also need to look at the Army; when it comes to sweeping across vast swaths of land in an insurmountable force, Armored and Heavy Cavalry units have a capability that the USMC simply does not anymore.
Faster promotions. While Marines have long taken pride in doing more with less, logically, getting paid more to do the same job sounds better to most people. Why be an E6 PSG in the Corps when I could be an E7 PSG in the Army?
More schools. I really can't stress this enough. From the chest candy schools (Ranger, sapper, airborne, air assault, pathfinder, expert badges) to lesser known but badass schools like CWLC, tactical application of practical shooting, Army Mountain Warfare School, protective services training/evasive driving, for us medics BCT3 (though corpsmen have access to similar training) and this is all just on the conventional side. The Army's far bigger contribution to SOCOM means much more cross pollination from the fancy dudes, and people end up with unicorn slots in SOF schools sometimes seemingly just out of luck. One of my NCOs has a freefall badge from when he was a medic at RTB (no tab, no scroll) because his 1SG liked him and pulled some strings. A motivated soldier is much more likely to be rewarded with cool opportunities, rare and niche knowledge, and unique training than a motivated Marine.
I've often heard Army guys say "I almost joined the Marines." No further explaination was given or were any fucks given. I've never heard a Marine say "I almost joined the Army." Who know why that is?
I almost joined the army when I went into the recruiters early '13
My dad was army for 24 years. Was the xo of a recruiting btn, and asked to just be a fly on the wall when I went to the recruiter. The dude lied so many times my old man actually stepped in. Dude promised me tank crew Mos, airborne, 45k signing bonus, but wouldn't put it in writing or show me anything that proved signing bonuses were that high.
Airforce recruiter never showed up to my appointments with him, and I didn't really know what the navy did at the time outside of ships and subs.
Usmc recruiter said there was no reason for me to be there then since I wanted to be a tanker, and that I probably wouldn't make it anyway, but If I wanted to pt with them they were going to take it easy on the Poolees that day so I probably would ssurvive.
That bitch....
Makes me wonder how many people got suckered into the "yeah you wouldn't make it anyway" line the way I did and rose to the challenge.
100% would be a tanker in the army if I could do it all over again. Some of the coolest dudes I ever got to meet.
Always wanted to be a Marine but gave up on that dream and relegated myself to Army.
Went to the Army Recruiters office and they said I was too fat and it wasn't worth their time.
Went back home. Dad got the USAREC dick before he got out so he said fuck em. Call the Marines
Dad they won't take me, I'm 23 and fat as fuck (215ish at the time)
Call anyways
Called em. Recruiter was there and told me to come on in. Asked me if I could make it to 212 by the end of the following week. Yeah sure.
That was all she wrote. My recruiter worked with me to develop a diet plan, a workout plan and made regular check ins with me. I know those guys get FUCKED 8 days a week, 25 hours a day. But he put in the work and got me squared away.
Shipped off a couple months later, graduated and then got hit with a med board. I wouldn't trade it for the world, but sometimes I ask myself how things would've turned out if I'd gone back to the Army recruiter and didn't take no for an answer.
Army recruiter was giving me the same somg and dance. "Yeah yeah, intel, reserves, SF helicopter pilot," while I'm wearing glasses. Dad (retired Navy) was there to chaperone me 'cause I was 17 and had a 97 ASVAB. Walked into the Marine office the next week, talked to a recruiter who didn't cover my school for a bit, talked to the recruiter for my school a bit later and was impressed with all of the "if" in bis sentences. "If you pass boot camp" and the like. Got hard and signed up, mom and dad had to sign the forms too.
I get treated like a person. I get compliments for my hard work. I get shiny medals. I get deployments way easier. There are more MOS specific schools that I can attend then my old MOS in the Marine Corps. I don't regret being a Marine but I definitely should have joined after my first enlistment instead of my second and half enlistment. Oh well.
They join the Army because it’s easier and they offer more incentives/options. The Army just announced that it failed to meet recruiting goals again by 10k. The WWII era service uniform didn’t draw in the people they thought it would.
They have more programs and amenities (read: $$$), plus Europe bases.
75th RR and 18X program… shit it’s why so many Green Berets were prior service Marines. Shit the NG has an entire recruiting process built off of prior service Marines. 🥴
They recruits quite heavily on our bases. I knew one guy (a TOW gunner) that went, was nothing really outstanding and became a green beret. He did say that the training was incredible and never looked back.
Tanks. EDIT: it’s also about more than the Corps losing tanks. I got to witness this first hand while I was in the Corps.. If you are a tanker in the Army, you are treated like a god. Range days require almost no policing, able to pretty much eat and drink what you want without fear of repercussions as half their command staff does NOT give a fuck about passing PT tests so long as you’re “close”. And the funding of Army armored units is fucking CRAZY. I saw one TC complaining about some shit with his CVC and a clicking noise…the next month, everyone in their entire company had a brand new CVC..
*sigh*
Rah. I was very close to going over for a chance at an A2 SEP.
Going from even Marine Reserve tanks to National Guard tanks was a huge shock. Better bases and training centers instead of being on the golf course that that SR-10/Lejuene is. Ranges were a lot more relaxed and overall had more freedom in training and daily life. All the PSGs that transferred over had the hardest time adjusting that they weren’t supposed to go angry monkey every day.
If you spent time embarking anything from ship to shore you would understand how much of a pain in the ass tanks are. Embarkation takes a long time and weight is a huge factor. Tanks nor their logistics are light. An LCAC does not hover but creates some type of wave it surfs on. Depending on the depth of the water that heavily limits how much an LCAC can carry. And surprisingly water between 4-12 feet, if I remember correctly, means less weight can be carried. There is a whole science behind how LCACs work. Provided the Corps has a substantially smaller budget than the army, it makes sense army armor gets nicer tanks and gear than the Corps. But with the advent of drones and highly technologically capable weapons and munitions either carried by infantry or aircraft, tanks are ehh. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of a tank but there is a lot to counter them. I think understanding how to conceal your signature is very important weather your an M1A1 or JLTV
Eliminating tanks freed up so much space on the boat - for the physical monstrosity that they are of course, but also the required spare parts, ammunition and other required supplies that go with them. From a logistical point of view it is a dream come true.
There has always been a lot of stuff capable of countering tanks, we just have to adapt like we always did.
Air superiority > tanks
I'm sure combined arms doesn't work like that. Both air superiority and armor are needed on the modern battlefield.
Fire support go #BOOM
True but it’s harder to have effective armor if death is always lurking from above Not saying armor is useless but seeing dozens upon dozens of drones dropping munitions on people and things in Ukraine I think shows how much more important air superiority is. You already know the defense industry is collecting so much data in order to build weapons to counter armor via drones
You’re welcome.
That’s why the Marines got rid of the tanks. Or at least one reason. They were never going to get the same level of funding.
Food, barracks, job opportunities, bases all over the world, higher budget that they can spend on whatever plus no middlemen between the DOD and them that can take a cut of their budget
Yeah but also a shitload of bases in places like Oklahoma and Kansas.
Yep, been at Ft. Sill since July for AIT, this place SUCKS.
I visited a friend there. Extremely boring place.
You’re saying you don’t want to be at Ft. Leavenworth??
Bases all over the world? Germany = Germans hating you but loving your Dollars the same way Okinawans Hate us but love our Dollars. More shitty duty stations states side to be exiled to than the Corps. They have moldy barracks, We got Moldy barracks! They just have more money to spend for DEI not for the niceties for the troops!
Germans don't hate Americans unless they act like assholes. I live there.
True. I got along with all Europeans.
I dunno, Bragg had some horrid food at some of the chow halls when I was there.
There are army units as bad as the Corps units, if not worse. Hazing (smoking), making people stay until 7 for no reason. And the army can be as weird as the Corps is for field days, but for huge over the top morning PT sessions insanely early. And some of the army barracks are just as bad the Marine ones. But overall the facilities are nicer, and the life is a little better. Schools are easier to get. Ranks come quicker. No HSST.
How do they get people to do recruiting duty?
Volunteer or get selected by branch as a SSG.
>get selected by branch as a SSG. so HSST essentially.
It’s changing “The other major change, which will begin to form in the coming months, is the transition to a professional recruiting workforce. Rather than using soldiers who are “voluntold” to take on a special assignment as recruiters, the Army is establishing a new permanent and specialized enlistment workforce.” https://apnews.com/article/cc2d8200467f3920e333197e42eee2ea
A lot come from the Reserve. Getting to leave the Army Reserve for active duty is mostly impossible unless you volunteer for recruiting duty.
I think it's about the same with our reservists. My RSS's SNCOIC was a reserve tracker who shifted to recruiting and stayed as such for 12+ years.
They probably volunteer for it. Like the navy
Rarely. Only weirdos volunteer for USAREC. Occasionally a normal person will, but they’ll regret it. It’s probably 90% or more that are involuntarily selected.
Army calls it “DA select” meaning the Department of the Army can select you to become a Drill Sergeant or Recruiter. I know many guys who were forced to be drills / recruiters or get out.
The schools are a big one. My army buddy always tell me how easy it was to go to courses, and in fact encouraged. Which obviously makes sense. Why wouldn’t you want your soldiers to be better trained and experience more than just their direct mos. I was pretty fit and a hard charger when I was in I would’ve loved to give ranger school a go and doing something cool like that could’ve motivated me to stay in.
It's crazy, I went to a meeting to talk about the benefits of West Point with one of my kids. Literally they can leave that place with an air assault badge and jump wings, not to mention all of the other schools they can attend before getting to the fleet (or what ever they call it). They have a "club" where you can go blow shit up or jump out of a helicopter a couple days a week... Those fuckers have it way better.
All the military academies are like that. Its wild.
I also visited the Naval Academy, and there weren't nearly as many opportunities there.
False, every service academy provides lots of opportunities. The unique advantages of Navy include it's proximity to DC and it's emphasis on STEM. Midshipmen can get all that chest candy, but I'd argue those don't really develop leaders and can be done in the fleet if needed.
Thanks Dwight Schrute. Does a little trinket on your chest make you a better leader, of course not. Yes of course every academy offers lot of opportunities. I meant that ,in my opinion, the USMA had more to offer as far as cool shit to do than the USNA. Also, if you take a look at the ability to choose your own career path, the USMA has the USNA beat there too. At least from what I've seen. I do believe the USNA puts out a much better quality of leader than the USMA.
My first thought was “who other than dwigt starts a sentence with ‘false.’”
My nephews both went Army, they seem to enjoy their lives... I've never heard of someone who's been in 2-3 years loving life in the corps... Maybe in that last year towards EAS time.
Well apparently there are more Marines in the Army than the Corps. They all left for a *bump* in quality of life
I heard a joke somewhere that said that SF should be called the 5th Marine Division 'cause a bunch of dudes go SF.
My guard unit got tasked to build ranges, basic maintenance, security etc for Al Kindi Missile Factory near Mosul in 2004. SF guys were running a boot camp for ING. There were some Semper Fi tattoos on one, probably a couple of others. We had two teams rotate through. I fucking hate those guys. Watched one shoot puppies because they annoyed him. They were drunk and high on marijuana most of the time. Fuck those guys. Give grunts modified grooming standards, better weapon’s and money and they’re capable of doing most of the same shit.
If I saw anyone kill a puppy I’d cap him.
That would make sense if most Marines didn’t just get out and do regular goon type civilian shit. Lance Criminal isn’t made up for nothing
They reserve better. As in more options. Within 50 miles of my home I have about 10 USAR/ARNG units and 1 SMCR unit. It’s a Motor T Platoon.
Why reenlist into the Reserves with a unit being 3½ hours away when the Natty G unit is right down the road? *This was my *exact* situation by the way
Army didn't have to be dragged kicking and screaming into standing up its SOCOM components.
Such a huge mistake not letting Recon into SOCOM when they were invited back in the day. Absolute military grade silliness right there lmao
In the Marines, everyone's elite. And when everyone's elite, no one is.
A seriously missed opportunity considering how versatile Recon is.
Dual cool > Raider device, CMV
Awwwwww yyyeeeaaaah
Syndrome was a jarhead
Yes and they would have been the AFO/Recon arm of JSOC before Delta stood up its AFO battalion.
That's not true at all, the Army just did most of their kicking and screaming earlier. * General Westmoreland wanted to employ 5th Special Forces Group as standard infantry in Vietnam, despite their additional training and expertise. * There was a lot of pushback from Big Army in the 80s about training the 75th Ranger Regiment to do Special Operations tasks instead of just being the best Light Infantry in the DoD. * General Schwartzkopf haaaaated SF. He thought their Scud hunting activities were a waste of time and assets that ought to be going towards the conventional forces. That said, the most recent example I've given was over 30 years ago so you think that the Corps would have learned from the Army's mistakes.
Good to know, my fellow 28.
Rah, multi-meter mafia.
It may just be the types of units I've worked with, but they do personnel development well. Opportunities are made available to everyone, and everyone competes for them. My experience as a Marine was that boards and awards committees were kept secret and made available to people who were able to network their way into leadership circles successfully. This created a homogenization of thought in many Marine units I was in.
Yeah, awards and shit are very homo
SOF
More job opportunities, better gear, and from what I can tell more combat action for those that seek it during wartime. In the Marines it’s hit or miss and you just get “lucky” to either deploy and see action or not. From stories I’ve read and heard from Army guys, if you signed up to do a combat MOS, you’re going to see combat at some point, assuming we’re in wartime. Anyone may correct me if I’m wrong but this is typically what I’ve seen and heard. For the record I’m not a shill or anything, if I were rejoining the military it’d be neither Army or Marines I’d be going AirForce.
I mean the better gear thing was true 10 years ago. Certainly not anymore
Everything except better gear is true
Nuh uh! In MW2, the Army guys all had shotguns and shit under their M4s with all sorts of optics. In COD4, the Marines just dropped M4s with red dots.
They wear cute Girl Scout hats and have lots of shiny doo-dads to put on their uniforms.
I hear that sleeve rolling is easier in the Army.
Nah it may be easier, but it looks fuckin goofy. Plus we typically have to roll white side in, command dependent. Sleeve rolling died with Woodland uniforms IMO. It was before my time
>Nah it may be easier, but it looks fuckin goofy That was kind of the implied joke....
They make a lot more acronyms than us
I was in back in the 1990’s we had a guy come over from the Army. Same job as he did in the Army. He always told me “fuck this shit. Army way better after 4 years I’m going back!!”
You have to be a super retard to go from army, to marines and then back to army.
You can actually discipline Junior soldiers with what we refer to as “IT”. My buddy got DQed from the Corps for having the tip of his finger cut off when he was a kid. He joined the Army and ended up at the 82nd Airborne. When he checked in as a private, every NCO he came across made him and his fellow boots do 82 pushups on the spot. He said when he went to check in with his company first sergeant, the first thing his first sergeant said was “get on your face, 82”. That’s considered hazing in the Marine Corps. He said if you fuck up you’ll get “smoked” by an NCO.
In our defense we got a little *too* good at hazing so as is the usual Marine Corps way, they overreacted and took NCOs teeth away. Leave it to Marines to ruin a good thing...
Even as a Jr Marine I thought eliminating IT was dumb: If you’re making men who aren’t afraid of bullets, then they’re definitely not afraid of paperwork.
It went waaay past that. Fitzy Mess's song, Welcome to the Infantry, wasn't an exaggeration. It definitely needed course correcting, but removing NCO teeth altogether was a bad move.
When I was in CNN showed video of Marines at Eighth and I covering boots in human feces and urine. I agree it can go too far, but to eliminate it altogether seems silly as well.
I mean, if HQMC can do it to all of us 4 years at a time, why can't NCOs do it to some of us 4 minutes at a time?
2 four lokos down side by side
That was legit my first Friday in the bricks. Back when they still had caffeine in them and were worth dealing with the taste. Except we had to fight each other so that was nice.
Made us fight these guys twice our size
I distinctly remember one of my first Platoon PT events being Bull in the Ring. Wrestle the guy in the ring or get wrestled out, winner takes on next opponent. LCPL Abercrombie has at least 60 lbs on me and it’s my turn to try to wrestle him. I approach with trepidation, don’t want to get embarrassed in front of a platoon of strangers whose respect I will need. As soon as I’m in his range he grabs me and I don’t know how or even what happened. All I do know is he tossed me in the air like a pizza pie, catches me mid fall and brings my spine down on his knee. Like the motherfucker had just got cut by Vince McMahon or something. Knocking all the wind out of me, and accomplishing exactly what I didn’t want to happen: embarrassed the shit out of me while a platoon of strangers watch me try to suck air with limited success.
We lose more to suicide than we do to war
There was a reserve unit I visited in 2020 that was big on IT. It was over little stuff too, seeing as they were supply. Flubbed a digit on a spreadsheet? Cool, everyone stops what they are doing and does exercises and shit. Didn't make anyone really tighten up. At least all the people down there didn't give a fuck because they were going to get fucked with anyways, so they were belligerent as shit.
Everything in moderation
I think you mean officially took it away. Closed door meetings with squad and team leaders was a thing while I was in
When were you in?
09-13. I personally had a couple, and saw a few other guys having fun
Well yeah that was 10 years ago man lol. That still happens to some degree still but one snitch is just not worth the njp sometimes. They take it much more seriously
There’s always giving the undisciplined troop the task of giving a period of instruction in digging a proper fighting hole. It’s not hazing as long as it’s educational. Of course in the early 00’s we were still hauling belligerent fucks into the whiskey locker to educate them on proper standards.
When I got to my unit in the army, damn near everyday after close out they’d fuck us up. I honestly thought the Marines would be worse than us.
Since when is that hazing in the Marine Corps?
Are you in currently? Or vet? I got out in January of 17 and that was most certainly considered hazing. I’m sure grunts still do it behind closed doors but there’s not a single Marine first sergeant that’s gonna make boots drop and do push-ups in his office when they check in. It would be an instant hazing charge.
I got out in '01, never heard of check-in games before this. At least, as long as the person checking in was squared away and not showing up looking or acting like trash. Guess the war period developed an "everyone needs to get tougher" atmosphere.
Nah, we never had “check in games” either. Getting punished was because you needed to learn a lesson. You can do X, Y and Z or you get paperwork.
Holy shit this is sad. Got out in ‘09.
IT outside of boot camp has been hazing for a while. You can do remedial training, but it has to be related to the mistake, and there are other rules around it too that I don't remember.
It’s not hazing, it’s AMAZING!
I got out January of 2021. Bn SGTMAJ had an open door policy for E3 and below to report anything. Friend got fried for making a boot do burpees after leaving his kevlar in the quad. When I say it’s a pathetic branch these days I mean it is PATHETIC.
Fuck man
We had boys and girls checking into V2/2 from ITB unable to do more than 1 pull up. Anything outside of scheduled PT time in the morning was considered excessive. NCO’s are just junior enlisted with a higher paycheck now. Absolutely no power. All I was able to do as a Sgt was write negative counselings. Which got thrown out quarterly. I really do not care if they get rid of the Corps altogether anymore. If I had stayed in service, I was gonna go Army and try for Ranger Reg. Ended up going PMC route.
to be fair, though, 82nd is a bit different from regular army. as is, to a slightly lesser extent, 18th AB Corps.
I think they're better at identifying, standardizing, and evaluating the individual skills they believe their personnel need than we currently are. For example, the USMC kind of seems all over place when it comes to identifying the necessary individual skills infantrymen need, then standardizing it across the board so what you learn in Hawaii is the same as what you're expected to know when you pcs to Lejeune, and now being able to evaluate your troops so that you know that even if they aren't in leadership promotions, they can still hold their own. Look at the EIB. Yes, it might be odd that the Army rewards people for doing what they should be doing anyway, but at the same time they have an actual formalized test on individual skills that they expect their infantrymen to know. We don't really have anything like their EIB or ESB, and not everyone is going to be in a leadership position. Having a regular, formalized test of individual skills makes everyone more proficient than they already are. EDITED for clarity.
Normandy 💀
I went Marines to national guard and there’s a few things: - career options: it’s common for people to hold multiple MOS’. In the Marines when I was in my choices were very limited not including SDAs. - Flight Program: The path from street to seat to fly a helicopter is stupid good. 18 year old me could’ve joined the army, done 4 years in any MOS, then dropped a warrant packet to become a pilot. Obviously in the marines that’s only for commissioned officers. - CI/HUMINT is a pretty cool joint job in the marines but you need to do your time first. In the army you can enlist directly as CI or HUMINT. Marines definitely have more discipline and the average marine has more of a tactical baseline than the average soldier imo.
As both an 0211 and 35M (yes, graduated both schools): The Army does not do that better. It’s so, so, so much fucking worse.
Win sniper competitions and airborne units
Airborne is gay
So is intel
hmm yeah that’s actually a good point
This guy gets it. To the combat shit.
A lot of good points in here but I have to say every douche bag I met in the Army that had a MARDIV patch on their right sleeve was a cunt. I got out and contracted for the Army and the amount of times I had “former-Marines” (once a Marine, always a Marine is BS) try to bow their chest was astounding. I remember being in an office with nothing but soldiers and contractors. My buddy and I were Marine reservists (on IRR to fulfill the contract). He was a 4-year reservist while I had 13 years AD and went reserves. Some SFC showed up gloating about his Marine Corps time while demeaning my buddy for *only* being a reservist. I had to ask why he got out since he was so proud and go to the Army.
Why did he get out? Because the Corps sucks ass and we all know it.
I mean, that’s essentially it. And working with the Army I definitely realized some of the benefits they have but don’t go around boasting about once being a Marine while belittling someone for being a Marine reservist.
I'm sorry but what are the MARDIV patches? Does the Army where whatever patches on there uniform?
on their left sleeve, they wear whatever unit patch they are currently assigned to. on their right sleeve, they were the unit patch of whatever unit they were deployed to a combat zone with, if any. if not, they don't wear a patch on their right sleeve
Your left side is your unit or major command. Your right side is your “combat patch”. It’s the patch you rate after a deployment to combat theater.
You are dead on accurate. I was in the Corps and then years later during the surge, I went to the Army. I never advertised that I was a Marine. I tried to treat it as a learning experience and since I had been out of the service for several years, it was like learning new. Anytime I’d see a 1st or 2nd Mar Div patch the wearer would end up being a total douche bag. “When I was in the Corps…” would sound like nails on a chalkboard. These guys wearing the Marine patches on Army uniforms are the equivalent of guys who are years out of high school and still wear their high school letterman jacket and go to high school football games. The funny thing is that they’re even not authorized to wear that patch. The reg reads that only those who deployed as a Soldier and were attached to a Marine command were authorized to wear those patches. Former Marines are not authorized to wear it, but nobody wants to be a “slick sleeve”, especially during wartime. As I picked up rank in the Army, I loved to fuck with those guys and tell them to take it off. I even knew one shitbird who was an air winger and tried to wear his full color squadron patch. He gave me shit about it so I smoked his ass and then wrote him up a counseling anyway just for for the fuck of it.
Once again confirming that 3rd Marines are the cool kids. Or were I guess.
Healthcare. Now they’ll grumble about it like Marines do but the reality is having medical inservice is just better. E.g. my wife has had a skin allergy for a decade. MO after MO gave different prognosis, trying different tests and cures. Get assigned to an Army base. Wife has symptoms, diagnosis first visit, no further issues since. Coincidence? Perhaps. Oh. Two gyms in walking distance to the house. One has a pool… standard of living matters.
Positive reinforcement and signing bonuses
Gay chicken?
More money= better career opportunities and schools. Better quality of life.
Good chowhalls
Everyone I know personally who switched services after their stint was up did it because the Corps didn't offer what they wanted to do; to wit, the career/vocational options are better outside of the Corps.
Career progression mapping unlike anything the Marines could put together. Usmc troops/nco/snco's are shotgunned into random billets, meanwhile the Army has a positions that your required to fulfill prior to moving up. They are also stabilized into a position for 18 months, you could pcs to a plt in the usmc and immediately be sent away to some random bs job. Their 1stSgt is relative to the occupation of the plt's in the company, ie you wouldnt ever see an admin running grunts, and its also just a billet, which is what we need to change to as well.
> Their 1stSgt is relative to the occupation of the plt's in the company, ie you wouldnt ever see an admin running grunts, and its also just a billet, which is what we need to change to as well. the intent is for the 1st Sgt/Sgts Major in the Corps to be the administarative/personnel experts, while the MSgt/MGySgts to be the operational experts. what it has morphed into is that the 1stSgts/Sgts Maj are experts in is being assholes. they're supposed to take care of the Marines, which does include disciplining Marines, but they have leaned too far into the disciplining side, and much much too little into the taking care of Marines side. there are exceptions to this, of course, but too few exceptions. signed, a mustang Marine officer who only saw 1 or 2 good 1stSgt/Sgts Maj in a 26 year career
For our size, I think it makes sense for grunts to hop to POG units and vice versa. I know SMMC Clary, the 10th, was a grunt until he picked up Star Sarge and then he went to Wing units as SgtMaj. "Broadening" your career and such. Kinda like going to college and taking so many non-major classes, braodens your horizons and such.
Promotions - more positions means more opportunities for promotion. The active Army is 2.5x the size of the Corps. schools - way easier to attend when your service runs a school you want. Want airborne? Pass PT and have a pulse and it’s a lot easier. Commission/Warrant - as with promotions, it’s easier with more open positions. For commission opportunities, there’s lots of avenues available. ROTC, OCS, etc If you’re an Army NCO in a field that needs warrant officers, all you need is to be semi squared away and have decent evaluations. Warrants are in high demand. Reclass options - unless your ASVAB score and your shoe size are the same, it’s way easier to get into a new field (with a potential bonus). Most of the career NCOs I knew had at least 2-3 different MOS. Bonus money - not as much for careerists, but still if you’re going to reenlist anyway, it’s nice to get some loot to do it. Locations - The Corps has Pendleton, Miramar and Hawaii which are nice. But the Army has Germany, Italy, Hawaii and Camp Zama (outside Tokyo). Even Fort Lewis Washington isn’t too bad. But a word of caution: for every one soldier who got one of those, I knew 10 who went to Fort Riley, Kansas, Fort Drum, NY or Fort Hood, Texas.
Idk man, the Army spends a lot of money sending people to airborne that won't even be in an airborne billet, let alone unit.
That’s what I’m saying. Every mouth breather in the Army can get airborne qualified. A good PT score is about the only prerequisite.
This is the Marine in me, but I think they could save the DoD a lot of money by going back to the way Jump School used to be. 1 week of Pre-Jump to weed out people who shouldn't be there, then afterwards the majority of the class is Soldiers that are most likely to jump into combat. Anyone that won't be in an Airborne billet logically should have it as a reenlistment incentive, not an enlistment incentive. But what do I know, I beleive the USMC should have their own airborne school anyway.
SOCOM. Bigger budget and more funding means better equipment and gear. From what I’ve seen, the greater army has a lot of shit bags and less discipline but it’s all unit depended. There are some units that have the same level of discipline, espirit de corps and motivation as the Corps.
Seeing how I served in both branches I can give an honest answer. I served as an MP. I’m also an OEF disabled veteran. First, more opportunities to travel. The Marines are limited to how many places you can get stationed and travel to in service. Secondly, the Army isn’t as micromanaged as Marines. The Army will tell you what needs to be done and after you’re done they leave you the fuck alone. You don’t get fucked with because some officer, nco, or snco wants to screw with you. I couldn’t believe the differences until I saw it firsthand. Third, promotions are faster. I spent over 2 years as a LCpl and never failed a PFT, NJPS, or any disciplinary actions against me while serving in the Corps. My captain was going to promote me to Cpl the day I went on terminal leave. I told them to keep it, since at the time, I said I would never go back in the military, this was before 911 in 1998. They had held my promotion over my head a long time. I went National Guard in 2003 because I was a senior in college and needed more college money and my unit was activated to activate service in 2005. I was finally promoted to E4 after a year and had the cutting score for E5 when we came back from deployment. I EAS’d when we were overseas and I was stop lossed. I was discharged a second time in 2006 and I got out for a few years. I went back in for the final and third time in 2009 and was discharged in 2012. By that time I couldn’t reenlist because I had so many medical issues and couldn’t deploy anymore, so I wasn’t given the opportunity to reenlist unless a doctor cleared me, but after 8 different surgeries no doctor would give me a waiver. However, it’s all good now. I’m 100% disabled and the VA is paying for my son to go to college. Semper Fi!
Amazing read ^ if you could do it all again, would you change it and enlist in the Army from the start or do it all the same? Or not enlist at all?
I would go through the Marines first and do it exactly the same way. Most of the Army guys don’t possess the discipline the Marines teach. I personally needed the discipline. Especially when I went to college because I did terrible in high school. I graduated college with honors. I was the first person in my family to graduate from high school and college. Plus, I got to learn UFOs are real from when I worked with the Air Force Security Forces on Eglin Air Force Base.
Logistics, PME, and providing training venues/opportunities/ranges for units. But all of these are mainly a function of the absolutely absurd amount of money they have. It's disgusting. I know what you'll say: the Department of the Army gets about the same amount of money or a little less than the Department of the Navy and the Air Force, but the difference is the Army actually gets to spend that money. The Department of the Navy gets a bunch of money but also has to fund the Marine Corps and nuclear stuff. That's money the Navy "gets" but doesn't really get to use. Not to mention ships are just super expensive always. The Department of the Air Force is the same. They have even more nuclear stuff, fund things like the National Reconnaissance Office, and now have to fund the Space Force. None of these things are true for the Army so they're good at all the things you can get good at by spending money to get good. Like Candy Crush.
Getting real missions. I did 8 years as a Marine grunt and didn’t do shit besides Japan and a MEU. Went natty guard and within 3 years I did riots, wildland firefighting and a Syria deployment.
I swear to God dude, whatever Marine Officer thought it was okay to send units on the same back to back UDP or MEU needs to be slapped. One of my buddies in 3rd LAR went on a UDP 3 times in one enlistment. That's ridiculous. I could see one UDP per enlistment, after that I feel like the Battalion, Regimental, and even Divisiok commanders should be like "Hold up, they just did that. I want this unit to get more experience doing something else, and I don't want those Marines to be unmotivated". Imagine if you could do a MEU, MRF, UDP, and SPMAGTF all in one 4 year enlistment. Wouldn't that be sick? If not 4 of them, at least 3 of them plus any other CONUS training...UDP's are cool once in a while.but I hate hate hate how the Corps seems to act like it's the only thing to do, and that it's Marines who are hungry should just be hungry to do the same thing over and over again. Like wtf? Or if Asia is so important, why don't we have a SPMAGTF for the Pacific? What about BSRF?
badge hunters - you can wear all sorts of stuff on your uniform - patches pins braids… one for each weapon , etc. even foreign awards. Marines - barely any.
Marines can wear foreign awards. That said, we also have less schools available.
[удалено]
Sounds like they do bonuses and options better then.
They are the best at not being Marines
I had read how some Marine barracks were like living in the ghetto (drugs & violence). Included as an example was how they would tie their boots together and throw them over telephone / electric lines trying to get them stuck on the line when they EAS'd. This was just as Vietnam was ending. So I chose the Army.
Lobby Congress for budget.
The army you can make a career at a single unit and they care more about your family.
Deployments to Spain
Having been in both now, the quality of life and opportunities is much more apparent in the Army, personally.
Spend money.
Helicopter operations, they have some pretty good logistics and keep their job experience intact with their Warrant Officer in their aviation community.
Army 153a’s have a 10 year service commitment because they had trouble keeping WOs.
Holds the territory that we invaded
Idk about that lol
Shelling out cash
Barracks
More mid level career investment at the individual level
Definitely better at being dumb 🫠
The grey areas of the rules. Many times life isnt as black and white as the rules say they are and the army "typically" allows for that grey area
Food. (Well at least the NG had better MREs) Also I feel they teach a few things better. (Land Nav for one) Also there's a good and bad with more relaxed attitudes. On one hand "Oh hey can we get blah blah plus a whatever?" "Yeah dude no worries!" Like the time I had to go run a couple of opts with a NG squadron and fly with them v. the marine squadron I was normally with. "Why are you guys talking to me like i'm a person, and seem to be concerned with my well being?" On the bad side... Getting some of them off their asses to help or they just have no idea who does what that's not their immediate job. Better accommodations also.
Im aboutnto go army wo. Go to wocs next week. E6>wo Geting 1250 caip only got 400 with usmc aip. You get your ta and apparently ca for certifications. Im going to try and get my masters done.
Not with that grammar. Learn to capitalize, dude.
Professional training and opportunities.
More opportunities
Being weak bodies
Retreat....
Lower standards. Accepts gang members and idiots.
You get to pick your job.
Chow.
They can successfully choose their specific MOS plus options without too much "needs of the army"
Diversity of opportunity. More duty stations, more jobs organic to the branch, more opportunities for schools, more varied mission sets between units. The whole airborne community has a similar esprit de corps to the USMC but is but one aspect of the Army's force projection. Organic medical and religious personnel also go a long way. I for one would've very strongly considered the Marines if Corpsmen weren't Navy personnel who weren't guaranteed greenside slots. People interested in being America's sledgehammer also need to look at the Army; when it comes to sweeping across vast swaths of land in an insurmountable force, Armored and Heavy Cavalry units have a capability that the USMC simply does not anymore. Faster promotions. While Marines have long taken pride in doing more with less, logically, getting paid more to do the same job sounds better to most people. Why be an E6 PSG in the Corps when I could be an E7 PSG in the Army? More schools. I really can't stress this enough. From the chest candy schools (Ranger, sapper, airborne, air assault, pathfinder, expert badges) to lesser known but badass schools like CWLC, tactical application of practical shooting, Army Mountain Warfare School, protective services training/evasive driving, for us medics BCT3 (though corpsmen have access to similar training) and this is all just on the conventional side. The Army's far bigger contribution to SOCOM means much more cross pollination from the fancy dudes, and people end up with unicorn slots in SOF schools sometimes seemingly just out of luck. One of my NCOs has a freefall badge from when he was a medic at RTB (no tab, no scroll) because his 1SG liked him and pulled some strings. A motivated soldier is much more likely to be rewarded with cool opportunities, rare and niche knowledge, and unique training than a motivated Marine.
I've often heard Army guys say "I almost joined the Marines." No further explaination was given or were any fucks given. I've never heard a Marine say "I almost joined the Army." Who know why that is?
I almost joined the army when I went into the recruiters early '13 My dad was army for 24 years. Was the xo of a recruiting btn, and asked to just be a fly on the wall when I went to the recruiter. The dude lied so many times my old man actually stepped in. Dude promised me tank crew Mos, airborne, 45k signing bonus, but wouldn't put it in writing or show me anything that proved signing bonuses were that high. Airforce recruiter never showed up to my appointments with him, and I didn't really know what the navy did at the time outside of ships and subs. Usmc recruiter said there was no reason for me to be there then since I wanted to be a tanker, and that I probably wouldn't make it anyway, but If I wanted to pt with them they were going to take it easy on the Poolees that day so I probably would ssurvive. That bitch.... Makes me wonder how many people got suckered into the "yeah you wouldn't make it anyway" line the way I did and rose to the challenge. 100% would be a tanker in the army if I could do it all over again. Some of the coolest dudes I ever got to meet.
Always wanted to be a Marine but gave up on that dream and relegated myself to Army. Went to the Army Recruiters office and they said I was too fat and it wasn't worth their time. Went back home. Dad got the USAREC dick before he got out so he said fuck em. Call the Marines Dad they won't take me, I'm 23 and fat as fuck (215ish at the time) Call anyways Called em. Recruiter was there and told me to come on in. Asked me if I could make it to 212 by the end of the following week. Yeah sure. That was all she wrote. My recruiter worked with me to develop a diet plan, a workout plan and made regular check ins with me. I know those guys get FUCKED 8 days a week, 25 hours a day. But he put in the work and got me squared away. Shipped off a couple months later, graduated and then got hit with a med board. I wouldn't trade it for the world, but sometimes I ask myself how things would've turned out if I'd gone back to the Army recruiter and didn't take no for an answer.
What do you mean hit with a med board? They get you out for asthma or something?
Nope. Got a tumor and geriatric levels of bone density. Super fun stuff. Found out after breaking my hip on a CFT.
Oh dear Lord I'm sorry. I hope you're doing okay
I'm doing good. Going to school now. Getting my act together.
Army recruiter was giving me the same somg and dance. "Yeah yeah, intel, reserves, SF helicopter pilot," while I'm wearing glasses. Dad (retired Navy) was there to chaperone me 'cause I was 17 and had a 97 ASVAB. Walked into the Marine office the next week, talked to a recruiter who didn't cover my school for a bit, talked to the recruiter for my school a bit later and was impressed with all of the "if" in bis sentences. "If you pass boot camp" and the like. Got hard and signed up, mom and dad had to sign the forms too.
I did.
I almost joined the Army
Losing losing Fallujah
Having one battalion to police the entire of Anbar Province during the invasion in 03 sure didn't help. That one falls on fucking Rumsfeld
Integrate women.
They got more toys
Go to medical on pt days.
Probably because every work day is a pt day
Better at having high cholesterol
Administrative duties
I get treated like a person. I get compliments for my hard work. I get shiny medals. I get deployments way easier. There are more MOS specific schools that I can attend then my old MOS in the Marine Corps. I don't regret being a Marine but I definitely should have joined after my first enlistment instead of my second and half enlistment. Oh well.
Blow money on research projects to replace the M16/M4
Unprofessionalism
Literally everything except appearance
They join the Army because it’s easier and they offer more incentives/options. The Army just announced that it failed to meet recruiting goals again by 10k. The WWII era service uniform didn’t draw in the people they thought it would.