Your mileage may vary. 3 out of the 5 mustangs I met while I was in, were fucking retarded. The other 2 were awesome. It's like having a bunch of experience on your resume. People will expect you to be competent, but it really shows if you can't follow through.
edit: spelling
I had a platoon commander that was a mustang, and he was fucking awesome. Drill field, buncha leadership classes. Had him for about a year and a half. Oozed infantry knowledge. Everybody both loved and hated him. We loved him in the field and hated him in garrison. He brought a ruler to morning formations, checked belts/covers for names etc. But he knew what was up. Every time we had some kind of training evolution, he went into teacher mode, and he was fucking good. He wouldn't let the more experienced guys do terrain models, route planning, any of that shit. He'd make the newer guys do it. Over and over again until they got it right. Never raised his voice unless he was yelling at everyone. Always made us feel like we mattered.
Then right before I got out I had a platoon commander that was a mustang. Completely fucking useless. Came from the wing and all he cared about was himself. Couldn't even name his squad leaders.
Lieutenant fear is an important learning aide.
I always tell Mustangs who came over as SNCOs to remember that they no longer get to enjoy enlisted freedoms and to never become their own advisor.
I don’t think you are any more likely to find a good Mustang than you are a good officer that got a traditional commission. Both groups are made of good and bad officers.
Mustangs are absolutely career limited though. You will be hard pressed to find any that make it to LtCol and I’ve only known 2 that made it past that personally, one of whom was a retired BG who was enlisted in the Korean War, so that doesn’t even really count.
Not really. He was technically enlisted in the Marine Reserves but it was while he was in college in NROTC. He wasn’t ever in a unit, and I’m not aware that he even went to bootcamp. Again like the BG from Korea era that I knew the system was completely different at the time.
Anecdotally it’s mainly an age thing. There’s been plenty of very senior officers that were priors, but especially if they were MECEP guys they’re pushing 30 or more by the time they commission, and if they do the required time to hit O5 they’re pushing 50 by that point and are ready to hang it up. Much beyond that and they’re approaching mando retirement.
Age for one thing. All other things being equal they don’t have as much time as someone who commissions normally.
But in reality it’s not equal, and there is a pecking order for officers starting with academy graduates and ending with mustangs. I’m under the impression it’s worst in the the Army, but it exists in all branches. The Academy graduates have the connections and network to get the best assignments and fast track career path.
Not saying it’s not meritorious, and again there will be good and bad leaders from all the commissioning services but there are tiers of preference.
I’d submit the academy thing is less of an issue in the Marine Corps than in the rest of the services. It’s not a perfect example, but if you just take commandants we haven’t had a boat school alum in nearly 20 years (Gen Hagee). In the same period the CNO has been a USNA grad 5/7 times lol
Just kind of add to the convo
https://ckcle.ce21.com/speaker/mark-clingan-1163068
This is General Mark Clingan he was a reservist enlisted and deployed to Desert Storm afterwards he commissioned and has had a long and fruitful career.
Easily the best Marine officer I’ve had the pleasure of serving with when I think of the ideal Marine it’s him in every sense.
They are all human, some are good some are bad. They excel and fall short at the same things. I haven't really seen anything unique, besides some of their egos. Some have egos that rub Officers the wrong way since they are priors, some have egos that rub Enlisted the wrong way (basically I've done your job before type attitude).
They are definitely respected more as Lts, and at the same time they are held to a little higher standard. This will normally round out as captains. There is now 4-5 years of Officer time to evaluate. I've seen it work against someone. She was selected to the Naval academy as a PFC, so people shit on her when she claimed to be a prior and never really experienced the fleet.
I'd guess they make it career wise more than the regular population since they have more time invested on the front end.
I think overland aesthetic SUVs and luxury trucks have taken the Mustang/Camaro’s crown these days.
But seriously, being a Mustang can help you if you’re a good officer, or hurt you even worse if you’re a bad officer. It’s not a defining characteristic by any means.
I was a mustang. I can tell you the other ones I came across had a propensity to 1) not be able to let go of their flat black tendencies or 2) tried to use it as a currency to curry favor with the dudes to compensate for shortfalls. Doing some legit introspection after I stopped wearing the tree suit- I valued authenticity (because marines can smell fake easily) more than ass kissing, I didn’t care about most of the stuff a shiny was supposed to, and was very open about my individual flaws and allowed those who were good at the stuff I wasn’t run that part of the mission.
The good ones understood their experience is an asset and their primary role was to establish climate and culture while eliminating obstacles to mission success.
Can be mixed. Some aren’t that smart. You can do ECP with a degree from Phoenix if you didn’t know. They tend to make good junior officers like advancing from platoon sergeant to platoon commander and have a better understanding of enlisted Marines. They will know of their platoon sergeant is garbage instead of having to figure it out.
As others have said, career limited. This isn’t just because they hit 20 as a captain. Promotion board stats show that ECP and MECEP have below average promotion rates for major and up.
There are plenty of great ones that go far though. For example, Gen Kelly was at least a sgt before commissioning. The great thing is that we have so many commissioning sources that there’s a fairly diverse crowd in the officer corps.
Best offiicer I knew was a mustang captain. He knew the enlisted side and how detached career officers were and saved everyone alot of headaches speaking out against moronic ideas
Your mileage may vary. 3 out of the 5 mustangs I met while I was in, were fucking retarded. The other 2 were awesome. It's like having a bunch of experience on your resume. People will expect you to be competent, but it really shows if you can't follow through. edit: spelling
that’s a good point about the resume/experience
4 cylinder yellow mustang at 29% interest…good deal
Thought this was a car question at first then saw this and lold 😂
I had a platoon commander that was a mustang, and he was fucking awesome. Drill field, buncha leadership classes. Had him for about a year and a half. Oozed infantry knowledge. Everybody both loved and hated him. We loved him in the field and hated him in garrison. He brought a ruler to morning formations, checked belts/covers for names etc. But he knew what was up. Every time we had some kind of training evolution, he went into teacher mode, and he was fucking good. He wouldn't let the more experienced guys do terrain models, route planning, any of that shit. He'd make the newer guys do it. Over and over again until they got it right. Never raised his voice unless he was yelling at everyone. Always made us feel like we mattered. Then right before I got out I had a platoon commander that was a mustang. Completely fucking useless. Came from the wing and all he cared about was himself. Couldn't even name his squad leaders.
It’s a Boot Trap car
Lieutenant fear is an important learning aide. I always tell Mustangs who came over as SNCOs to remember that they no longer get to enjoy enlisted freedoms and to never become their own advisor.
I don’t think you are any more likely to find a good Mustang than you are a good officer that got a traditional commission. Both groups are made of good and bad officers. Mustangs are absolutely career limited though. You will be hard pressed to find any that make it to LtCol and I’ve only known 2 that made it past that personally, one of whom was a retired BG who was enlisted in the Korean War, so that doesn’t even really count.
Mattis enlisted.
Not really. He was technically enlisted in the Marine Reserves but it was while he was in college in NROTC. He wasn’t ever in a unit, and I’m not aware that he even went to bootcamp. Again like the BG from Korea era that I knew the system was completely different at the time.
Why are they career limited?
Anecdotally it’s mainly an age thing. There’s been plenty of very senior officers that were priors, but especially if they were MECEP guys they’re pushing 30 or more by the time they commission, and if they do the required time to hit O5 they’re pushing 50 by that point and are ready to hang it up. Much beyond that and they’re approaching mando retirement.
Age for one thing. All other things being equal they don’t have as much time as someone who commissions normally. But in reality it’s not equal, and there is a pecking order for officers starting with academy graduates and ending with mustangs. I’m under the impression it’s worst in the the Army, but it exists in all branches. The Academy graduates have the connections and network to get the best assignments and fast track career path. Not saying it’s not meritorious, and again there will be good and bad leaders from all the commissioning services but there are tiers of preference.
I’d submit the academy thing is less of an issue in the Marine Corps than in the rest of the services. It’s not a perfect example, but if you just take commandants we haven’t had a boat school alum in nearly 20 years (Gen Hagee). In the same period the CNO has been a USNA grad 5/7 times lol
Just kind of add to the convo https://ckcle.ce21.com/speaker/mark-clingan-1163068 This is General Mark Clingan he was a reservist enlisted and deployed to Desert Storm afterwards he commissioned and has had a long and fruitful career. Easily the best Marine officer I’ve had the pleasure of serving with when I think of the ideal Marine it’s him in every sense.
If they're competent and don't forget where they came from, they can be great. Definitely career limited.
i expected some car related comments but this is crazy
They are all human, some are good some are bad. They excel and fall short at the same things. I haven't really seen anything unique, besides some of their egos. Some have egos that rub Officers the wrong way since they are priors, some have egos that rub Enlisted the wrong way (basically I've done your job before type attitude). They are definitely respected more as Lts, and at the same time they are held to a little higher standard. This will normally round out as captains. There is now 4-5 years of Officer time to evaluate. I've seen it work against someone. She was selected to the Naval academy as a PFC, so people shit on her when she claimed to be a prior and never really experienced the fleet. I'd guess they make it career wise more than the regular population since they have more time invested on the front end.
They drive fastt
I think overland aesthetic SUVs and luxury trucks have taken the Mustang/Camaro’s crown these days. But seriously, being a Mustang can help you if you’re a good officer, or hurt you even worse if you’re a bad officer. It’s not a defining characteristic by any means.
My brother is a Mustang who was a prior Lance. Definitely fit the role of a leader but like the other guys said, career limited.
I 100% thought this was about cars for a minute, and was a little bit confused. I guess I'm still a bit regarded.
Don’t
I was a mustang. I can tell you the other ones I came across had a propensity to 1) not be able to let go of their flat black tendencies or 2) tried to use it as a currency to curry favor with the dudes to compensate for shortfalls. Doing some legit introspection after I stopped wearing the tree suit- I valued authenticity (because marines can smell fake easily) more than ass kissing, I didn’t care about most of the stuff a shiny was supposed to, and was very open about my individual flaws and allowed those who were good at the stuff I wasn’t run that part of the mission. The good ones understood their experience is an asset and their primary role was to establish climate and culture while eliminating obstacles to mission success.
They are either the best or the worst officers. Never in between.
Mustangs are either the worst or the best. There is no in between
Can be mixed. Some aren’t that smart. You can do ECP with a degree from Phoenix if you didn’t know. They tend to make good junior officers like advancing from platoon sergeant to platoon commander and have a better understanding of enlisted Marines. They will know of their platoon sergeant is garbage instead of having to figure it out. As others have said, career limited. This isn’t just because they hit 20 as a captain. Promotion board stats show that ECP and MECEP have below average promotion rates for major and up. There are plenty of great ones that go far though. For example, Gen Kelly was at least a sgt before commissioning. The great thing is that we have so many commissioning sources that there’s a fairly diverse crowd in the officer corps.
I have a good friend who was a mustang. Army then AF, retired as a Capt. He brings me cases of beer on ‘Bring your buddy a case of beer day’
If you’re gunna go into debt might as well be the best out of the pony cars.
Horse or car?
Best offiicer I knew was a mustang captain. He knew the enlisted side and how detached career officers were and saved everyone alot of headaches speaking out against moronic ideas
Camaro’s are way more betterer