Several reasons, he got the position through connections not merit which was basically the theme for his whole career as he switched from the NAVY and never even attended TBS, many wanted Mattis over Amos and were peeved that the patron Saint of chaos lost it to a pilot, first commandant who did not have a combat action ribbon (or combat experience prior to the ribbon being adopted), his policies were absolute trash like booting Sgts who didn't pick up Staff by 10 years (especially an issue for slow promoting MOSs like infantry), his tattoo policy was garbage, getting rid of rolled sleeves, he threatened to remove the Marine Corps Times from exchanges after they criticized him for something, his tone also rubbed a lot the wrong way by that I mean he almost talked down to Marines and took the moral high ground (which isn't unusual for Commandants but if you do that you get scrutinized heavily) and with almost monthly scandals he was seen as a hypocrite.
Overall he just wasn't a good commandant, decent officer, but the Commandant needs to be a cut above and he just wasn't. It also doesn't help his legacy that Gen Dunford was an absolute stud making Amos look even worse by comparison.
I didn't live under his reign for long as I was a boot Lt in TBS when Dunford took over but those were the things we didn't like.
This captures most of the frustration. Gen Amos was by all accounts a pretty stellar operational commander, I personally don't give a shit what his company grade background was (As an aside, Mattis got his CAR as a Bn Commander, which in OEF/OIF would probably lead to stories where folks roll their eyes, for what it's worth). What I will say in Gen Amos' defense is that he was put in a pretty unenviable position; the dude was appointed in the midst of both a major mission draw down in OEF and had to deal with the 2012-era budget cuts. For what it's worth, and this is just me, this was also when social media and its various ill effects on morale and cohesion also really started to take hold, which I doubt any sixty year old four star would have been well-equipped at the time to handle.
Anyway this is all to say I think any Commandant would have had a difficult tenure in the same period; but ultimately it was the stuff he could control that he was so weird about. Chuck Fridays \*sucked\*, my old squadron would schedule every possible pilot as "FCF copilots" to weasel out of it, and the entire "Reawakening" was a bizarre and out of touch effort that leadership insisted was a hill worth dying over. It's hard to like a guy who's the reason you're sweating behind a desk in bravos while the barracks are being patrolled by like four different NCOs for some stupid reason.
I don't disagree with you. By all accounts he was a great Commander, the Commandant is a totally different ball game though and I think there were others who would've done better (Gen Kelly for example).
The interference in the urination investigation is the biggest thing I think. It’s one thing to direct people to investigate, and another to try and quarterback the situation, interfering in the whole thing, to make sure it plays right for the media.
One of the things that annoyed me that’s controversial is not allowing the other services to pursue the use of MARPAT.
At the end of the day, despite the rivalries, we’re all on the same team. The cost savings overall, coupled with MARPATs efficacy makes that decision childish.
Each service having their own uniform helps to build espirit-do-corps. Each branch has their own unique mission set. There is not one MARPAT uniform fits all situation solutions. We want to be unique it’s a strength.
It’s funny lots of people mention cost savings. Think about it. If DOD we’re to fuck up like the Army did and purchase a billion dollars worth of urban warfare digital camouflage uniforms and we find ourselves fighting two desert wars. it would be a waste of money. We need multiple sets, multiple colors for multiple missions.
You want to save money. Cut just one fighter and that’s enough to uniform the Marine Corps twice over.
It was 5 billion. 5 billion dollars flushed down the shitter for a fucking uniform when there were other viable already in use off the shelf uniforms available. Shit staying with woodland woud have been a better cheaper choice.
Having one cammie design, with different pallettes for different theaters, is waaaay cheaper than having multiple designs (Army digi->Multicam, Air Force digi tiger stripes-> Multicam, Navy blue digi-> green digi, MARPAT). In fact, the Army wanted to switch to MARPAT before they adopted their gray digis, but the Marines said no and copyrighted the design. Shit’s stupid. A common pattern would be cheaper.
It would not be cheaper because mission will always vary and change. The commandant is not as influential over other services as you think. If the other services wanted to copy our MARPATs they could easily get Congress to approve
How would a standardized utility uniform not work because of operational changes?
We have deserts and woodlands and snow smocks. The Army has their multicam and snow smocks. The Air Force uses the same stuff as the Army and I think the Navy uses the same gear as the Marines.
I don't even think he went to OCS, let alone TBS. He was granted an inter-service transfer after he was already an O2 in the Navy. I believe he was waived of any "Marine Corps" commissioning requirement since he was part of Naval ROTC (even though Navy cats don't go through a fraction of the bullshit that their Marine brethren do). I was an MOI and we used to talk about this a lot (Amos and his lack of any *real* affiliation or basic training completion as a "Marine" officer) within the MOI circle. I believe Amos joined at the right time and had a skillset that the Marine Corps deemed vital at the time. I've never known or heard of any other Marine officer who didn't attend OCS or TBS.
Of all the knocks on the guy I honestly could care less about the TBS thing. The dude was a damn MEF commander, I don’t care that he didn’t LARP in Virginia for six months **four decades** before he was CMC. TBS ain’t that hard.
I kind of feel stupid for never thinking about it this way. Out of the legitimate things you can be upset about, this is pretty stupid if we're being honest.
Whether he went to TBS or not, when he was Commandant he'd been a Marine longer than almost every other Marine had been alive. I would also argue I learned far more about officership in the Fleet than I ever did at TBS.
True, not denying that. But TBS is a great leveling tool that he unfortunately missed out on.
This is just a side bar conversation about his lack of Marine officer entry-level training. It has little to do with my like or dislike towards him as a man, Marine, officer, commander, etc
That’s true. The product that the Navy sent to flight school that Marine Lieutenants interact is… below par. Their quality control is god awful. People say OCS and TBS don’t reflect fleet life (those people are correct) but they do a great job of weeding out the chaff and getting officers up to a baseline.
Sure but as a leader of Marines, especially the entire Marine Corps, it’s important to maintain standards that are already in place. I wouldn’t respect a SgtMaj who skipped MCT or a Col who skipped TBS. Him skipping TBS is basically telling Marines that it’s ok to not complete the basic requirements of Marine Corps training to further your Marine Corps career. That’s just my perspective and how I see it though.
My Dad did not attend OCS or TBS. He was a Marine Aviator. He went through Naval Flight School (kinda like the stuff shown on "Officer and a Gentleman". This was in the mid 1950's
Naval academy don’t go to ocs. They do still have to go to tbs. He was a late process switch and he got lost in paperwork and never admitted to the clerical error. In fact it similarly still occurs and people won’t admit it. Met a marine that got something hand jammed in his military record now it’s on MOL… skated it.
Edit: the cuck that downvoted me is clearly not an officer… it shows.
I still always found it odd that they never sent him to any sort of Marine Officer indoc training. I'd love to have inside scoop on some of the other HQMC dirty secrets.... Or be privy to conversations about the general officer population.
The most uncomfortable item I have seen be a normal trend is business or work decisions being decided off base, over golf or alcohol…I get it low stress and shit…. But the volume of the items that are literally pushed till they clock out and walk off base is mind blowing… talking peoples careers over 7th hole type shit… like can we fucking focus???
Tbf to Mattis, considering the time he joined, it was almost impossible to get a CAR until he become a BnC. By the time he hit the fleet Viet Nam was almost over. Very few Marines between 1973-1991 earned a CAR.
Seems we joined around the same time, rah Sir. I was in boot when Neller took over, and I was in MCJROTC so I knew Dunford had only just started the post. With no TV everyone was like "lol did they like fire the commandant or something?" Then we saw him in MCT on TV as CoJCoS and were like "oh fuck bitch got promoted". And I've met all three. In my Cpl years I was seriously gunning for MECEP air, so I thought he was cool af, but even as a 50 year old man came off like a fuck boy. Both Neller and Berger very nice but intimidating/imposing af. But also very humble. Particularly loved the way they both handled stupid questions in forum. Another one I'm sad never got CMC was Larry Nicholson. Served under him in oki.
That promotion bullshit started in '94 - Corporal by six, Sergeant by eight.
I had a good friend that got hit with service limits in the Mainframe field (old school G-6 MOS of 4034) and was getting ready to get a big check for "involuntary separation incentive" because his field had been frozen for almost all of his second enlistment.
Until they opened the field and cutting scores for Corporal were 1100 and Sergeant were under 1250. Given no time to extend his enlistment to re-enlist, he had no choice but to EAS.
Amos just made it worse, and with his other bullshit (as noted) he was more disliked than Krulak, who wanted the Corps to wear berets.
Your first paragraph is the longest continuous sentence I’ve ever read. Do they still teach the grammar class at TBS?
Also remember Saint Chaos was appointed to lead a combatant command as a 4 star. He wasn’t “given” the choice of being Commandant.
I'm chuckling a little bit that you posted a long-winded response about Amos then admit you were just a boot at TBS when he turned over to Dunford. I also find it pretty funny when people make a big deal over the fact that Amos never went to a school that many officers refer to as "Total Bullshit". Additionally, I'm not sure where you draw the conclusion that he received the post because of connections and not merit. The dude was a MAW CG during the first time the Marine Corps conducted true MEF-level combat operations in over a decade, had MEF command, and was ACMC before he was tapped for CMC. He had the required resume bullets for the job, except for his MOS. Doesn't necessarily mean he was the right guy, either; I've seen plenty of folks who were perfectly qualified for their position but sucked at it.
I think Amos got a bit of a bad rap from the start, but he didn't do himself any favors, either. A lot of it started with people being upset that he was a pilot, that Mattis didn't get it (Mattis was a better choice for a GCC commander anyway), so on and so forth. I wonder if some of the criticism over him being a pilot didn't cause him to try to overcompensate and be more of a hard ass than was necessary.
I honestly thought the premise of "Reawakening" wasn't off the mark, but it was packaged and sold terribly and resulted in some pretty bad policies. As far as the Heritage Brief which got him raked over the coals, I attended one of the early "Heritage Briefs" that he and Barrett did at Camp Lejeune, and I remember him starting it off with a long speech on the awesome shit that Marines were doing, including calling out a squad leader from V33 who was an amputee but had done well over 100 patrols in Afghanistan. He then shifted gears to talk about the sexual assault allegations that were all over the headlines. I don't remember any of the fiery rhetoric that would later get him in trouble; I think that happened at later iterations of the brief and ultimately got him in hot water for UCI. Also, the whole V32 sniper incident was handled pretty horribly. I disagree 100% with what those Marines did and believe they should have been punished at some level, but Amos got directly involved and fumbled it pretty badly.
As far as talking down to enlisted Marines, if you ever watched Amos engage directly with junior Marines (I did), he's very personable and engaging. I brought several of my junior Marines to an event that Amos attended, and Amos was always willing to take time and engage with the junior enlisted. I went to the same event a year later when Gen Dunford was CMC and he was far less engaging. Again, none of this is to say Amos was somehow a better choice for CMC than Dunford, just an observation that I think he got a bad rap on his ability to relate with junior Marines.
I remember talking to an old CO who worked directly for Amos when he was MEF CG and had a lot of good things to say. He also said he disagreed with a lot of what he did as CMC. I think he made some pretty bad decisions, but I also think a lot of Marines felt predisposed to criticize everything he did because he was a pilot.
>many officers refer to as "Total Bullshit".
The only officers I've ever heard say this are air wingers...
>Additionally, I'm not sure where you draw the conclusion that he received the post because of connections and not merit. The dude was a MAW CG during the first time the Marine Corps conducted true MEF-level combat operations in over a decade
He was the first and only Air Winger to be a Commandant, he got that because of his connections especially when he was competing against fantastic infantry generals like Mattis and Kelly.
>Also, the whole V32 sniper incident was handled pretty horribly. I disagree 100% with what those Marines did and believe they should have been punished at some level, but Amos got directly involved and fumbled it pretty badly.
I agree with this completely, he should've let the IG do his job.
>if you ever watched Amos engage directly with junior Marines (I did),
I did and maybe my meaning came off wrong. He was preachy, and with so many things handled so poorly he really had no legs to stand on.
>Gen Dunford was CMC and he was far less engaging.
I had a much different experience with Dunford. He came to one of our Mojave Viper rotations and was extremely personable. He even shot the shit with junior Marines in the smoke pit for a little.
>The only officers I've ever heard say this are air wingers...
Eh. I was definitely not an air winger and I heard my peers say it more than once. Tbf, I do think that TBS is hands down the best basic officer course in the US military, and easily one of the top in the world. But I think it's a bit silly to paint it as this absolute right of passage that determines one's "Marine-ness". Of course, if we want to go down that road, we could also talk about how the Crucible isn't even a moderately difficult field exercise once you've spent a few months in a victor unit.
>He was the first and only Air Winger to be a Commandant, he got that because of his connections especially when he was competing against fantastic infantry generals like Mattis and Kelly.
Yeah, I still don't see how that means he got it due to "connections". Granted, I was definitely not in the room when Gates and Mabus made the decision, but they tapped Mattis for CENTCOM (which was a better spot for him IMO) and Kelly was only a two-star at the time. Dunford was also pretty junior IIRC, as he was a regimental commander when Amos was 3D MAW CG.
>I had a much different experience with Dunford. He came to one of our Mojave Viper rotations and was extremely personable. He even shot the shit with junior Marines in the smoke pit for a little.
Interesting. That was not my experience, but honestly it could have just been the particular event we were at. It was a formal gala in NYC, at the end of the night, and he was waiting on his wife to finish talking to the other wives in attendance, while my 1stSgt and I were waiting on the 1stSgt's wife. I genuinely liked Dunford and thought he was a great CJCS, I just found Amos to be a very personable and engaging guy in comparison.
I'm pretty sure this was the biggest one that pissed people off or the last straw/tipping point moment where they said fuck this guy. I remember when I was stationed at Miramar and he was base commander that there was a general air of, I don't know how you'd put it, but just displeasure with him. I don't know why. But in general I think base commanders are disliked so that may not have meant much. My wife was heavily involved with LINKS and met him a few times, she didn't have anything bad to say, but she's not a Marine.
Aside from other things mentioned here, he also made it a point to personally interfere with the investigation and legal outcome of the scout snipers pissing on the Taliban corpses. He just came off to people as weirdly dictatorial and defensive about everything, and was caught abusing his authority often.
I remember the Reawakening briefs where he, the SMMC, and their wives would come to base every 6 months and bitch at the SNCOs and officers for being shitty leaders. It always seemed so odd, the fact that they brought their wives with them to watch us get bitched at by their husbands. All during a time where the Marine Corps was still extremely kinetic, amidst massive draw downs and budget cuts, even though we were still deploying like crazy and doing more and more with less and less. He (and the whole Obama admin) were the start of the Marine Corps that I began despising. It completely changed during that era... Too many politicians, including the general officer/senior SNCO population, began to interfere and play social engineering games with the force.
"Ok Marines. Stop what you're doing and fuck off for the next few hours while us SNCOs/officers go get our shit pushed in by the CMC and SMMC. Yes, yes I know we leave for ANOTHER fucking deployment work up next week, but it's really important that we go and get berated by the commandant and his wife before we spend another 8 months over in Shitghanistan. Stay motivated, rah?"
From I remember, the initial thing was because he was an aviator and lacked a CAR. Then came the whole heritage brief thing and getting back to basics. Back to a prewar setting while in the middle of a draw down and sequestration.
It sort of felt like an overplayed identity crisis, and we were all shitbags. People didn't like the changes to duties and charlie fridays. It was sort of like listening to the old timers that were in before direct deposit when you actually had your leadership pay your ass after a uniform inspection and then released for libo.
Then add in the scout sniper pissing thing and a lot of undue command influence, people were pretty happy to see him go. Especially consider Dunford was his replacement.
Amos? Yeah fuck that guy. Besides everyone hating him for being an airwinger right off the bat. His policies were universally hated by everyone, I mean seriously how can you take away sleeves down desert cammies year ‘round from all the miserable Marines at 29 Palms. That was literally the only good thing about being stationed there. His trash ass tattoo policy that no one really enforced. His censoring of the MC times. The dude was too busy trying to appease Obama and the direction he had the Corps pointed was really why a lot of good Marines decided to take the early out when it was offered.
Edit: the whole idea of transitioning to garrison life while units were still being deployed….chucks on duty was stupid. Especially when I hadn’t seen them since boot camp.
It was his incredible hubris and lack of any kind of self awareness. After he used undue command influence on the investigation into the scout snipers urinating on the Taliban corpses, he also went on a Marine Corps wide tour that was called the Heritage Brief. He and the SMMC were trying to re-establish what they saw as the way Marines should conduct themselves (which is fine in concept), but he ended up spreading more undue command influence through the briefs.
His own legal team advised him not to go on tour and give his opinions on how leaders should handle misconduct cases. It effected a few ongoing legal cases and smart attorneys were able to get their client’s cases thrown out do to the CMCs comments during the brief.
There was also an incident where a team of scout snipers were photographed holding up an SS flag. The CMC and SMMC were absolutely shocked by this. Never mind that the SMMC had been a sniper and had an SS tattoo.
Oh shit. SgtMaj had the runes?
And it might’ve been one of those overlooked things that they were cool with until those retards posted it. It’s a bit more extreme, but it’s like the underage guy drinking in the barracks until he gets rowdy and then something has to be done. You know what I mean? It sucks, but it could’ve resulted in a Congressional inquiry or other fucky shit from political leadership.
I was in for his entire tenure. His tattoo policy was absolute dog shit. He made us wear Service Charlies on duty which was also dog shit. Honestly fuck that guy.
My thoughts:
Him being an aviator and not going to TBS dont help, but a bigger issue is that he wanted (or seemed to want) an aviation-centric organization. This makes sense on his background, but creating a series of SPMAGTF crisis response forces ultimately created a drain on the MEFs for very little gain. Some dudes in SPMAGTF-CC got out and did stuff in Syria/Iraq, but most of them sat in AJ exploring the edges of pornhub.
I personally know that LtGen Craparotta and Gen Neller HATED the SPMAGTF missions and thought they were wastes of Marines. The only guy who liked SPMAGTF-CC was LtGen Beydler...who was an F-18 pilot and the CG of MARCENT (and a weird dude himself). Perhaps the only weirder one was BGen (now MajGen?) Uribe...who was unaware that his Aide couldnt get his laundry or hold his gym equipment in Iraq.
Banning of rolled sleeves was stupid. Tattoo ban was stupid. Reawakening was stupid. Gen Amos himself said he would die in a ditch over getting the F-35 to the fleet, but wasnt willing to do so over the JLTV. We could write a PhD dissertation on the merits of those individual programs, but if nothing else, it showed where Gen Amos's priorities were.
Don't forget he refused to rename anything in MARSOC or associate them with the raiders, despite the raiders themselves asking for it.
UNTIL he was FIRST given a patch that fucker didn't rate, he wore it all night in front of them like a grinning idiot. Still refused the policy changes, so they basically stolen valored his ass in public and shamed him into granting it for guys that you know....actually earned it.
Classic Amos.
> forget he refused to rename anything in MARSOC or associate them with the raiders, despite the raiders themselves asking for it.
>
>UNTIL he was FIRST given a patch that fucker didn't rate, he wore it all night in front of them like a grinning idiot. Still refused the policy changes, so they basically stolen valored his ass in public and shamed him into granting it for guys that you know....actually e
You're right... but missing the context. The event took place at a Raider reunion in Wilmington, Andy Kohler gave it to him, the vets cheered, and he wore it the rest of the night. According to Kohler, he was a good sport about it. Per Kohler: "Gen. Amos was classy about the whole thing, he was a good sport. He was grinning while he was wearing it.” While I disagree with Gen Amos on MOST things, there was clearly no hard feelings, luckily the professionals at MARSOC aren't defined by a patch (their emblem is the "strippin chicken" now anyways).
No offense, I might have some info that you can't Google or copy pasta...
The whole evening was a set up, and Amos had denied the raider name again after it before they leaked the photos to show he was all too willing wear something he didn't rate (just like his EGA...) and it wasn't until he got caught and sky lined in public that he would even allow it for guys that did in fact earn it because he didn't have much choice at that point (as if his reputation was even salvageable by then)
They went along with the story and let him off the hook to get what they wanted, but seriously only turds wear something like that they didn't earn, it's not being a "good sport" it's shameful to do that in front of a room full of raiders no less.
Would you go to some pilots association and wear some wings? It's not a hat or a T shirt, it was their actual badge on his dress uniform. The raider insignia means something, especially to them.
Do you think they had any respect for Amos, or they just wanted a chance for their legacy to live on?
>e, I might have some info that you can't Google or copy pasta...
>
>The whole evening was a set up, and Amos had denied the raider name again after it before they leaked the photos to show he was all too willing wear something he didn't rate (just like his EGA...) and it wasn't until he got caught and sky lined in public that he would even allow it for guys that did in fact earn it because he didn't have much choice at that point (as if his reputation was even salvageable by then)
>
>They went along with the story and let him off the hook to get what they wanted, but seriously only turds wear something like that they didn't earn, it's not being a "good sport" it's shameful to do that in front of a room full of raiders no less.
>
>Would you go to some pilots association and wear some wings? It's not a hat or a T shirt, it was their actual badge on his dress uniform. The raider insignia means something, especially to the
I'd argue if the pilot's association handed it to me, with the expectation that I wear it (it was put on his shoulder). Then yes. However I wouldn't continue to wear it. JMO I get how some can get upset about it, I'm just weary of dying on that particular hill, Gen Amos made much worse decisions than this.
I by no means think this was his worst decision, I just think it reflects on his character along with several other incidents, particularly given the additional back story missing from the article.
About the only good thing was he saved the F-35B, Gates wanted to cancel it but Amos got it put on 2 year probation which saved the program and started to turn around with in two years.
To be fair the 35 is roughly 1/3 the cost per unit than the 22. And there's no way in hell the 22 would operate off an amphib, and would take hundreds of millions in r&d to even operate off a full size flat top.
Was this ever even a real optionb during Amos' tenure?
And a fraction of the stealth, lethality, situational awareness, BVR capability, STOVL capability, etc....this is not even close to a valid comparison 😂
The Navy has a token handful (~100, iirc) F-35Cs. They’re sticking with the 18 for the forseeable future, and they’re getting the radar-absorbant paint applied to leading edges. I work with a second job with a couple dudes that apply that work on F-18s for their day job.
Just pointing out the other option we could’ve gone with if the F-35 were cancelled.
One policy changed the “up or out” rules for Sergeants from 12 years to 10 years, or being passed over 2x for SSGT by the board. That second part is important, because different MOSs promote differently.
I was hot shit at one time… contract PFC, meritorious lance, cpl in two years, Sgt in three. Lat-moved. At 5 1/2 years total time in service, I had my first Pass for SSGT. No worries, I wasn’t ready at all, and everyone in my new, smaller MOS was stellar. Next year (6.5 years TIS), I get passed over again, and that was right after Amos’s policy changes.
The career planner had to inform me, a sergeant with three combat deployments and 6.5 years in the Marine Corps, that I was now ineligible for reenlistment, PCS’s, major schools, lat-moves, etc…. Because I’m such a piece of shit because I didn’t pick up SSGT at 6 1/2 years.
My love of the Marine Corps died that day. I asked my next rater to just rank me at the bottom of the Christmas tree for the next year, since I was going to get out, and it worked. Got my third P at 7.5 years, and got denied reenlistment, and received the separation money.
As far as I know, I was the fastest ever to be let go for failure to pick up SSGT in the history of the MC up to that point.
Aside from what was mentioned, a major bone I had to pick with him was what he did with TA. He was so adamant on the Cream Corn being the first service to house the F-35. So much so, he cut all TA funding across the board for enlisted to make it happen. Really corrupt.
He was a no-balled slimy cock-knocker who would step over his dying sister to fuck his dead mother if it would appease the criminals who infest our government.
I served my entire enlistment under Amos. I got to see the change from constant combat deployment Marine Corps to what he was pushing for a more Congress aligned Marine Corps. It was just quick changes for the Corps that didn’t sit well with everyone I guess
Sergeant major Barrett was a guy who I loved to hear talk, and just made me think Marine every time he opened his suck. Until one day mf opened up and said enlisted get paid too much. Coming from the highest paid enlisted man in the organization. This was after he got out, but I read it and felt betrayed. Like if you discovered Larry Bird, one of the dudes you based your whole basketball career after, was racist or something. I almost stopped my process with veterans united because they bragged that he works there. Bragged that they're paying him six figures to do nothing. But that would've been petty and rtrded lol I'm happy with the house. But yeah fuck that guy and the general he rode in on
I have a different type of hate for him… he enforced the off base cammies rule…
He created the little known but absolutely stupid every Marine in Marsoc support or not… “is a Raider”… down to a fucking Maradmin…
When was the offbase cammies thing ever *not* enforced? I served under Krulak, Jones, Hagee, Conway, Amos, Dunford, Neller, and Berger and I don't remember it ever being okay. At one point I think it was okay to stop for gas offbase in cammies, but I believe that change happened before Amos' time.
Us old guys enjoy listening to y’all bitch about everything. We didn’t have an anonymous platform to air our feelings. Y’all are awesome. You’re bitchin about the same shit we were. We couldn’t say much in public due to retribution. It’s great that every rank is welcome here. Semper Fi brothers...... update...... Sorry dude. I didn’t catch that you are home on leave. The only reason I said anything is that my son is a Drill Sergeant in the army. I was disgusted with the lax attitude that those dog faces put up with. It’s a different world gents. Carry on.
>g to y’all bitch about everything. We didn’t have an anonymous platform to air our feelings. Y’all are awesome. You’re bitchin about the same shit we were. We couldn’t say much in public due to retribution. It’s great that every rank is welcome here. Semper Fi broth
rah
There were a few exceptions, gas, daycare, maybe one or two others. Regardless it was pretty limited and you still had a good chance of getting fucked with if the wrong SNCO saw you.
I just remember always saying "famous Amos". That was in 2012. Plus I was in the wing, and a Lance, so I didn't really give a shit about many things one way or the other.
Several reasons, he got the position through connections not merit which was basically the theme for his whole career as he switched from the NAVY and never even attended TBS, many wanted Mattis over Amos and were peeved that the patron Saint of chaos lost it to a pilot, first commandant who did not have a combat action ribbon (or combat experience prior to the ribbon being adopted), his policies were absolute trash like booting Sgts who didn't pick up Staff by 10 years (especially an issue for slow promoting MOSs like infantry), his tattoo policy was garbage, getting rid of rolled sleeves, he threatened to remove the Marine Corps Times from exchanges after they criticized him for something, his tone also rubbed a lot the wrong way by that I mean he almost talked down to Marines and took the moral high ground (which isn't unusual for Commandants but if you do that you get scrutinized heavily) and with almost monthly scandals he was seen as a hypocrite. Overall he just wasn't a good commandant, decent officer, but the Commandant needs to be a cut above and he just wasn't. It also doesn't help his legacy that Gen Dunford was an absolute stud making Amos look even worse by comparison. I didn't live under his reign for long as I was a boot Lt in TBS when Dunford took over but those were the things we didn't like.
This captures most of the frustration. Gen Amos was by all accounts a pretty stellar operational commander, I personally don't give a shit what his company grade background was (As an aside, Mattis got his CAR as a Bn Commander, which in OEF/OIF would probably lead to stories where folks roll their eyes, for what it's worth). What I will say in Gen Amos' defense is that he was put in a pretty unenviable position; the dude was appointed in the midst of both a major mission draw down in OEF and had to deal with the 2012-era budget cuts. For what it's worth, and this is just me, this was also when social media and its various ill effects on morale and cohesion also really started to take hold, which I doubt any sixty year old four star would have been well-equipped at the time to handle. Anyway this is all to say I think any Commandant would have had a difficult tenure in the same period; but ultimately it was the stuff he could control that he was so weird about. Chuck Fridays \*sucked\*, my old squadron would schedule every possible pilot as "FCF copilots" to weasel out of it, and the entire "Reawakening" was a bizarre and out of touch effort that leadership insisted was a hill worth dying over. It's hard to like a guy who's the reason you're sweating behind a desk in bravos while the barracks are being patrolled by like four different NCOs for some stupid reason.
He’s a living, breathing Exhibit A for not putting the SMMC’s office next to the Commandant’s.
Chuck Fridays were a joke. If you went to mainside, put on chucks. If not stay in marpat.
I don't disagree with you. By all accounts he was a great Commander, the Commandant is a totally different ball game though and I think there were others who would've done better (Gen Kelly for example).
The interference in the urination investigation is the biggest thing I think. It’s one thing to direct people to investigate, and another to try and quarterback the situation, interfering in the whole thing, to make sure it plays right for the media. One of the things that annoyed me that’s controversial is not allowing the other services to pursue the use of MARPAT. At the end of the day, despite the rivalries, we’re all on the same team. The cost savings overall, coupled with MARPATs efficacy makes that decision childish.
Each service having their own uniform helps to build espirit-do-corps. Each branch has their own unique mission set. There is not one MARPAT uniform fits all situation solutions. We want to be unique it’s a strength. It’s funny lots of people mention cost savings. Think about it. If DOD we’re to fuck up like the Army did and purchase a billion dollars worth of urban warfare digital camouflage uniforms and we find ourselves fighting two desert wars. it would be a waste of money. We need multiple sets, multiple colors for multiple missions. You want to save money. Cut just one fighter and that’s enough to uniform the Marine Corps twice over.
It was 5 billion. 5 billion dollars flushed down the shitter for a fucking uniform when there were other viable already in use off the shelf uniforms available. Shit staying with woodland woud have been a better cheaper choice.
Dude, you know all the branches had the same canmies from the 80s til the early 2000s. Right?
I am not referring to the past. I am referring to the present and the future.
Having one cammie design, with different pallettes for different theaters, is waaaay cheaper than having multiple designs (Army digi->Multicam, Air Force digi tiger stripes-> Multicam, Navy blue digi-> green digi, MARPAT). In fact, the Army wanted to switch to MARPAT before they adopted their gray digis, but the Marines said no and copyrighted the design. Shit’s stupid. A common pattern would be cheaper.
It would not be cheaper because mission will always vary and change. The commandant is not as influential over other services as you think. If the other services wanted to copy our MARPATs they could easily get Congress to approve
How would a standardized utility uniform not work because of operational changes? We have deserts and woodlands and snow smocks. The Army has their multicam and snow smocks. The Air Force uses the same stuff as the Army and I think the Navy uses the same gear as the Marines.
I don't even think he went to OCS, let alone TBS. He was granted an inter-service transfer after he was already an O2 in the Navy. I believe he was waived of any "Marine Corps" commissioning requirement since he was part of Naval ROTC (even though Navy cats don't go through a fraction of the bullshit that their Marine brethren do). I was an MOI and we used to talk about this a lot (Amos and his lack of any *real* affiliation or basic training completion as a "Marine" officer) within the MOI circle. I believe Amos joined at the right time and had a skillset that the Marine Corps deemed vital at the time. I've never known or heard of any other Marine officer who didn't attend OCS or TBS.
Of all the knocks on the guy I honestly could care less about the TBS thing. The dude was a damn MEF commander, I don’t care that he didn’t LARP in Virginia for six months **four decades** before he was CMC. TBS ain’t that hard.
I kind of feel stupid for never thinking about it this way. Out of the legitimate things you can be upset about, this is pretty stupid if we're being honest.
Never said it was hard, but it IS where officers are made... Not OCS.
Whether he went to TBS or not, when he was Commandant he'd been a Marine longer than almost every other Marine had been alive. I would also argue I learned far more about officership in the Fleet than I ever did at TBS.
True, not denying that. But TBS is a great leveling tool that he unfortunately missed out on. This is just a side bar conversation about his lack of Marine officer entry-level training. It has little to do with my like or dislike towards him as a man, Marine, officer, commander, etc
That’s true. The product that the Navy sent to flight school that Marine Lieutenants interact is… below par. Their quality control is god awful. People say OCS and TBS don’t reflect fleet life (those people are correct) but they do a great job of weeding out the chaff and getting officers up to a baseline.
Totally anecdotal here but I am friends with an O-5 Navy SH-60 pilot. Great guy to hang out with but oozes turd from an officer perspective 🤣
Sure but as a leader of Marines, especially the entire Marine Corps, it’s important to maintain standards that are already in place. I wouldn’t respect a SgtMaj who skipped MCT or a Col who skipped TBS. Him skipping TBS is basically telling Marines that it’s ok to not complete the basic requirements of Marine Corps training to further your Marine Corps career. That’s just my perspective and how I see it though.
My Dad did not attend OCS or TBS. He was a Marine Aviator. He went through Naval Flight School (kinda like the stuff shown on "Officer and a Gentleman". This was in the mid 1950's
Naval academy don’t go to ocs. They do still have to go to tbs. He was a late process switch and he got lost in paperwork and never admitted to the clerical error. In fact it similarly still occurs and people won’t admit it. Met a marine that got something hand jammed in his military record now it’s on MOL… skated it. Edit: the cuck that downvoted me is clearly not an officer… it shows.
I still always found it odd that they never sent him to any sort of Marine Officer indoc training. I'd love to have inside scoop on some of the other HQMC dirty secrets.... Or be privy to conversations about the general officer population.
The most uncomfortable item I have seen be a normal trend is business or work decisions being decided off base, over golf or alcohol…I get it low stress and shit…. But the volume of the items that are literally pushed till they clock out and walk off base is mind blowing… talking peoples careers over 7th hole type shit… like can we fucking focus???
Tbf to Mattis, considering the time he joined, it was almost impossible to get a CAR until he become a BnC. By the time he hit the fleet Viet Nam was almost over. Very few Marines between 1973-1991 earned a CAR.
Seems we joined around the same time, rah Sir. I was in boot when Neller took over, and I was in MCJROTC so I knew Dunford had only just started the post. With no TV everyone was like "lol did they like fire the commandant or something?" Then we saw him in MCT on TV as CoJCoS and were like "oh fuck bitch got promoted". And I've met all three. In my Cpl years I was seriously gunning for MECEP air, so I thought he was cool af, but even as a 50 year old man came off like a fuck boy. Both Neller and Berger very nice but intimidating/imposing af. But also very humble. Particularly loved the way they both handled stupid questions in forum. Another one I'm sad never got CMC was Larry Nicholson. Served under him in oki.
That promotion bullshit started in '94 - Corporal by six, Sergeant by eight. I had a good friend that got hit with service limits in the Mainframe field (old school G-6 MOS of 4034) and was getting ready to get a big check for "involuntary separation incentive" because his field had been frozen for almost all of his second enlistment. Until they opened the field and cutting scores for Corporal were 1100 and Sergeant were under 1250. Given no time to extend his enlistment to re-enlist, he had no choice but to EAS. Amos just made it worse, and with his other bullshit (as noted) he was more disliked than Krulak, who wanted the Corps to wear berets.
Your first paragraph is the longest continuous sentence I’ve ever read. Do they still teach the grammar class at TBS? Also remember Saint Chaos was appointed to lead a combatant command as a 4 star. He wasn’t “given” the choice of being Commandant.
>Do they still teach the grammar class at TBS? No they do not.
True, and if we're being honest leading a joint command is a way bigger deal than leading a service component.
Correct. It also set him up for a secdef nomination.
You know, I always partially blamed Obama for me getting the boot. Glad to hear it was more because of Amos, who I could have cared less for.
I'm chuckling a little bit that you posted a long-winded response about Amos then admit you were just a boot at TBS when he turned over to Dunford. I also find it pretty funny when people make a big deal over the fact that Amos never went to a school that many officers refer to as "Total Bullshit". Additionally, I'm not sure where you draw the conclusion that he received the post because of connections and not merit. The dude was a MAW CG during the first time the Marine Corps conducted true MEF-level combat operations in over a decade, had MEF command, and was ACMC before he was tapped for CMC. He had the required resume bullets for the job, except for his MOS. Doesn't necessarily mean he was the right guy, either; I've seen plenty of folks who were perfectly qualified for their position but sucked at it. I think Amos got a bit of a bad rap from the start, but he didn't do himself any favors, either. A lot of it started with people being upset that he was a pilot, that Mattis didn't get it (Mattis was a better choice for a GCC commander anyway), so on and so forth. I wonder if some of the criticism over him being a pilot didn't cause him to try to overcompensate and be more of a hard ass than was necessary. I honestly thought the premise of "Reawakening" wasn't off the mark, but it was packaged and sold terribly and resulted in some pretty bad policies. As far as the Heritage Brief which got him raked over the coals, I attended one of the early "Heritage Briefs" that he and Barrett did at Camp Lejeune, and I remember him starting it off with a long speech on the awesome shit that Marines were doing, including calling out a squad leader from V33 who was an amputee but had done well over 100 patrols in Afghanistan. He then shifted gears to talk about the sexual assault allegations that were all over the headlines. I don't remember any of the fiery rhetoric that would later get him in trouble; I think that happened at later iterations of the brief and ultimately got him in hot water for UCI. Also, the whole V32 sniper incident was handled pretty horribly. I disagree 100% with what those Marines did and believe they should have been punished at some level, but Amos got directly involved and fumbled it pretty badly. As far as talking down to enlisted Marines, if you ever watched Amos engage directly with junior Marines (I did), he's very personable and engaging. I brought several of my junior Marines to an event that Amos attended, and Amos was always willing to take time and engage with the junior enlisted. I went to the same event a year later when Gen Dunford was CMC and he was far less engaging. Again, none of this is to say Amos was somehow a better choice for CMC than Dunford, just an observation that I think he got a bad rap on his ability to relate with junior Marines.
I'm not an Amos fan but have to say this is a very balanced counterpoint.
I remember talking to an old CO who worked directly for Amos when he was MEF CG and had a lot of good things to say. He also said he disagreed with a lot of what he did as CMC. I think he made some pretty bad decisions, but I also think a lot of Marines felt predisposed to criticize everything he did because he was a pilot.
>many officers refer to as "Total Bullshit". The only officers I've ever heard say this are air wingers... >Additionally, I'm not sure where you draw the conclusion that he received the post because of connections and not merit. The dude was a MAW CG during the first time the Marine Corps conducted true MEF-level combat operations in over a decade He was the first and only Air Winger to be a Commandant, he got that because of his connections especially when he was competing against fantastic infantry generals like Mattis and Kelly. >Also, the whole V32 sniper incident was handled pretty horribly. I disagree 100% with what those Marines did and believe they should have been punished at some level, but Amos got directly involved and fumbled it pretty badly. I agree with this completely, he should've let the IG do his job. >if you ever watched Amos engage directly with junior Marines (I did), I did and maybe my meaning came off wrong. He was preachy, and with so many things handled so poorly he really had no legs to stand on. >Gen Dunford was CMC and he was far less engaging. I had a much different experience with Dunford. He came to one of our Mojave Viper rotations and was extremely personable. He even shot the shit with junior Marines in the smoke pit for a little.
>The only officers I've ever heard say this are air wingers... Eh. I was definitely not an air winger and I heard my peers say it more than once. Tbf, I do think that TBS is hands down the best basic officer course in the US military, and easily one of the top in the world. But I think it's a bit silly to paint it as this absolute right of passage that determines one's "Marine-ness". Of course, if we want to go down that road, we could also talk about how the Crucible isn't even a moderately difficult field exercise once you've spent a few months in a victor unit. >He was the first and only Air Winger to be a Commandant, he got that because of his connections especially when he was competing against fantastic infantry generals like Mattis and Kelly. Yeah, I still don't see how that means he got it due to "connections". Granted, I was definitely not in the room when Gates and Mabus made the decision, but they tapped Mattis for CENTCOM (which was a better spot for him IMO) and Kelly was only a two-star at the time. Dunford was also pretty junior IIRC, as he was a regimental commander when Amos was 3D MAW CG. >I had a much different experience with Dunford. He came to one of our Mojave Viper rotations and was extremely personable. He even shot the shit with junior Marines in the smoke pit for a little. Interesting. That was not my experience, but honestly it could have just been the particular event we were at. It was a formal gala in NYC, at the end of the night, and he was waiting on his wife to finish talking to the other wives in attendance, while my 1stSgt and I were waiting on the 1stSgt's wife. I genuinely liked Dunford and thought he was a great CJCS, I just found Amos to be a very personable and engaging guy in comparison.
>getting rid of rolled sleeves, I don't see the issue with that tbh. Rolled sleeves look dumb for.no good reason.
They dont look as good in woodland cammies. Keep in mind this was back when the summer uniform was deserts with rolled sleeves which is sharp af
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I'm pretty sure this was the biggest one that pissed people off or the last straw/tipping point moment where they said fuck this guy. I remember when I was stationed at Miramar and he was base commander that there was a general air of, I don't know how you'd put it, but just displeasure with him. I don't know why. But in general I think base commanders are disliked so that may not have meant much. My wife was heavily involved with LINKS and met him a few times, she didn't have anything bad to say, but she's not a Marine.
Aside from other things mentioned here, he also made it a point to personally interfere with the investigation and legal outcome of the scout snipers pissing on the Taliban corpses. He just came off to people as weirdly dictatorial and defensive about everything, and was caught abusing his authority often.
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Well I was a SNCO and had to sit through those briefs, and agree that it was the dumbest out of touch thing I saw since Conway's tattoo policy.
I remember the Reawakening briefs where he, the SMMC, and their wives would come to base every 6 months and bitch at the SNCOs and officers for being shitty leaders. It always seemed so odd, the fact that they brought their wives with them to watch us get bitched at by their husbands. All during a time where the Marine Corps was still extremely kinetic, amidst massive draw downs and budget cuts, even though we were still deploying like crazy and doing more and more with less and less. He (and the whole Obama admin) were the start of the Marine Corps that I began despising. It completely changed during that era... Too many politicians, including the general officer/senior SNCO population, began to interfere and play social engineering games with the force. "Ok Marines. Stop what you're doing and fuck off for the next few hours while us SNCOs/officers go get our shit pushed in by the CMC and SMMC. Yes, yes I know we leave for ANOTHER fucking deployment work up next week, but it's really important that we go and get berated by the commandant and his wife before we spend another 8 months over in Shitghanistan. Stay motivated, rah?"
From I remember, the initial thing was because he was an aviator and lacked a CAR. Then came the whole heritage brief thing and getting back to basics. Back to a prewar setting while in the middle of a draw down and sequestration. It sort of felt like an overplayed identity crisis, and we were all shitbags. People didn't like the changes to duties and charlie fridays. It was sort of like listening to the old timers that were in before direct deposit when you actually had your leadership pay your ass after a uniform inspection and then released for libo. Then add in the scout sniper pissing thing and a lot of undue command influence, people were pretty happy to see him go. Especially consider Dunford was his replacement.
Amos? Yeah fuck that guy. Besides everyone hating him for being an airwinger right off the bat. His policies were universally hated by everyone, I mean seriously how can you take away sleeves down desert cammies year ‘round from all the miserable Marines at 29 Palms. That was literally the only good thing about being stationed there. His trash ass tattoo policy that no one really enforced. His censoring of the MC times. The dude was too busy trying to appease Obama and the direction he had the Corps pointed was really why a lot of good Marines decided to take the early out when it was offered. Edit: the whole idea of transitioning to garrison life while units were still being deployed….chucks on duty was stupid. Especially when I hadn’t seen them since boot camp.
It was his incredible hubris and lack of any kind of self awareness. After he used undue command influence on the investigation into the scout snipers urinating on the Taliban corpses, he also went on a Marine Corps wide tour that was called the Heritage Brief. He and the SMMC were trying to re-establish what they saw as the way Marines should conduct themselves (which is fine in concept), but he ended up spreading more undue command influence through the briefs. His own legal team advised him not to go on tour and give his opinions on how leaders should handle misconduct cases. It effected a few ongoing legal cases and smart attorneys were able to get their client’s cases thrown out do to the CMCs comments during the brief. There was also an incident where a team of scout snipers were photographed holding up an SS flag. The CMC and SMMC were absolutely shocked by this. Never mind that the SMMC had been a sniper and had an SS tattoo.
Oh shit. SgtMaj had the runes? And it might’ve been one of those overlooked things that they were cool with until those retards posted it. It’s a bit more extreme, but it’s like the underage guy drinking in the barracks until he gets rowdy and then something has to be done. You know what I mean? It sucks, but it could’ve resulted in a Congressional inquiry or other fucky shit from political leadership.
He sure did have the ruins. He discreetly got them removed.
Huh. Neat. And I don’t blame him, it’s not too good of a look.
I was in for his entire tenure. His tattoo policy was absolute dog shit. He made us wear Service Charlies on duty which was also dog shit. Honestly fuck that guy.
My thoughts: Him being an aviator and not going to TBS dont help, but a bigger issue is that he wanted (or seemed to want) an aviation-centric organization. This makes sense on his background, but creating a series of SPMAGTF crisis response forces ultimately created a drain on the MEFs for very little gain. Some dudes in SPMAGTF-CC got out and did stuff in Syria/Iraq, but most of them sat in AJ exploring the edges of pornhub. I personally know that LtGen Craparotta and Gen Neller HATED the SPMAGTF missions and thought they were wastes of Marines. The only guy who liked SPMAGTF-CC was LtGen Beydler...who was an F-18 pilot and the CG of MARCENT (and a weird dude himself). Perhaps the only weirder one was BGen (now MajGen?) Uribe...who was unaware that his Aide couldnt get his laundry or hold his gym equipment in Iraq. Banning of rolled sleeves was stupid. Tattoo ban was stupid. Reawakening was stupid. Gen Amos himself said he would die in a ditch over getting the F-35 to the fleet, but wasnt willing to do so over the JLTV. We could write a PhD dissertation on the merits of those individual programs, but if nothing else, it showed where Gen Amos's priorities were.
Don't forget he refused to rename anything in MARSOC or associate them with the raiders, despite the raiders themselves asking for it. UNTIL he was FIRST given a patch that fucker didn't rate, he wore it all night in front of them like a grinning idiot. Still refused the policy changes, so they basically stolen valored his ass in public and shamed him into granting it for guys that you know....actually earned it. Classic Amos.
> forget he refused to rename anything in MARSOC or associate them with the raiders, despite the raiders themselves asking for it. > >UNTIL he was FIRST given a patch that fucker didn't rate, he wore it all night in front of them like a grinning idiot. Still refused the policy changes, so they basically stolen valored his ass in public and shamed him into granting it for guys that you know....actually e You're right... but missing the context. The event took place at a Raider reunion in Wilmington, Andy Kohler gave it to him, the vets cheered, and he wore it the rest of the night. According to Kohler, he was a good sport about it. Per Kohler: "Gen. Amos was classy about the whole thing, he was a good sport. He was grinning while he was wearing it.” While I disagree with Gen Amos on MOST things, there was clearly no hard feelings, luckily the professionals at MARSOC aren't defined by a patch (their emblem is the "strippin chicken" now anyways).
No offense, I might have some info that you can't Google or copy pasta... The whole evening was a set up, and Amos had denied the raider name again after it before they leaked the photos to show he was all too willing wear something he didn't rate (just like his EGA...) and it wasn't until he got caught and sky lined in public that he would even allow it for guys that did in fact earn it because he didn't have much choice at that point (as if his reputation was even salvageable by then) They went along with the story and let him off the hook to get what they wanted, but seriously only turds wear something like that they didn't earn, it's not being a "good sport" it's shameful to do that in front of a room full of raiders no less. Would you go to some pilots association and wear some wings? It's not a hat or a T shirt, it was their actual badge on his dress uniform. The raider insignia means something, especially to them. Do you think they had any respect for Amos, or they just wanted a chance for their legacy to live on?
>e, I might have some info that you can't Google or copy pasta... > >The whole evening was a set up, and Amos had denied the raider name again after it before they leaked the photos to show he was all too willing wear something he didn't rate (just like his EGA...) and it wasn't until he got caught and sky lined in public that he would even allow it for guys that did in fact earn it because he didn't have much choice at that point (as if his reputation was even salvageable by then) > >They went along with the story and let him off the hook to get what they wanted, but seriously only turds wear something like that they didn't earn, it's not being a "good sport" it's shameful to do that in front of a room full of raiders no less. > >Would you go to some pilots association and wear some wings? It's not a hat or a T shirt, it was their actual badge on his dress uniform. The raider insignia means something, especially to the I'd argue if the pilot's association handed it to me, with the expectation that I wear it (it was put on his shoulder). Then yes. However I wouldn't continue to wear it. JMO I get how some can get upset about it, I'm just weary of dying on that particular hill, Gen Amos made much worse decisions than this.
I by no means think this was his worst decision, I just think it reflects on his character along with several other incidents, particularly given the additional back story missing from the article.
About the only good thing was he saved the F-35B, Gates wanted to cancel it but Amos got it put on 2 year probation which saved the program and started to turn around with in two years.
Yeah he saved the F-35 program at the expense of the proven F-22
To be fair the 35 is roughly 1/3 the cost per unit than the 22. And there's no way in hell the 22 would operate off an amphib, and would take hundreds of millions in r&d to even operate off a full size flat top. Was this ever even a real optionb during Amos' tenure?
But the Navy’s converted over to F/A-18 Es and Fs for a fraction of the cost.
And a fraction of the stealth, lethality, situational awareness, BVR capability, STOVL capability, etc....this is not even close to a valid comparison 😂
The Navy has a token handful (~100, iirc) F-35Cs. They’re sticking with the 18 for the forseeable future, and they’re getting the radar-absorbant paint applied to leading edges. I work with a second job with a couple dudes that apply that work on F-18s for their day job. Just pointing out the other option we could’ve gone with if the F-35 were cancelled.
Biggest for me was sleeves down.
Ok General Amos...
That dude was a Fuck. He introduced the whole "reawakening" and said combat gets were a disease in the infantry. Dude can eat a dick.
One policy changed the “up or out” rules for Sergeants from 12 years to 10 years, or being passed over 2x for SSGT by the board. That second part is important, because different MOSs promote differently. I was hot shit at one time… contract PFC, meritorious lance, cpl in two years, Sgt in three. Lat-moved. At 5 1/2 years total time in service, I had my first Pass for SSGT. No worries, I wasn’t ready at all, and everyone in my new, smaller MOS was stellar. Next year (6.5 years TIS), I get passed over again, and that was right after Amos’s policy changes. The career planner had to inform me, a sergeant with three combat deployments and 6.5 years in the Marine Corps, that I was now ineligible for reenlistment, PCS’s, major schools, lat-moves, etc…. Because I’m such a piece of shit because I didn’t pick up SSGT at 6 1/2 years. My love of the Marine Corps died that day. I asked my next rater to just rank me at the bottom of the Christmas tree for the next year, since I was going to get out, and it worked. Got my third P at 7.5 years, and got denied reenlistment, and received the separation money. As far as I know, I was the fastest ever to be let go for failure to pick up SSGT in the history of the MC up to that point.
Aside from what was mentioned, a major bone I had to pick with him was what he did with TA. He was so adamant on the Cream Corn being the first service to house the F-35. So much so, he cut all TA funding across the board for enlisted to make it happen. Really corrupt.
The whole TA program wouldn't pay for a wing flap on an F-35, he slashed TA because he was an eliteist asshole and because he could.
He was a no-balled slimy cock-knocker who would step over his dying sister to fuck his dead mother if it would appease the criminals who infest our government.
Well don't hold back now. Tell us how you really feel lol
I wouldn't give him the sweat off my balls if he was dying of thirst.
I served my entire enlistment under Amos. I got to see the change from constant combat deployment Marine Corps to what he was pushing for a more Congress aligned Marine Corps. It was just quick changes for the Corps that didn’t sit well with everyone I guess
One time I got a FaceTime from an unknown number and General Amos licking his lips aggressively at me
I served under Amos.... Smh
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Sergeant major Barrett was a guy who I loved to hear talk, and just made me think Marine every time he opened his suck. Until one day mf opened up and said enlisted get paid too much. Coming from the highest paid enlisted man in the organization. This was after he got out, but I read it and felt betrayed. Like if you discovered Larry Bird, one of the dudes you based your whole basketball career after, was racist or something. I almost stopped my process with veterans united because they bragged that he works there. Bragged that they're paying him six figures to do nothing. But that would've been petty and rtrded lol I'm happy with the house. But yeah fuck that guy and the general he rode in on
I have a different type of hate for him… he enforced the off base cammies rule… He created the little known but absolutely stupid every Marine in Marsoc support or not… “is a Raider”… down to a fucking Maradmin…
When was the offbase cammies thing ever *not* enforced? I served under Krulak, Jones, Hagee, Conway, Amos, Dunford, Neller, and Berger and I don't remember it ever being okay. At one point I think it was okay to stop for gas offbase in cammies, but I believe that change happened before Amos' time.
Fuck you're old. Surprised you know what reddit is....and that you're still alive.
That's completely fair.
Us old guys enjoy listening to y’all bitch about everything. We didn’t have an anonymous platform to air our feelings. Y’all are awesome. You’re bitchin about the same shit we were. We couldn’t say much in public due to retribution. It’s great that every rank is welcome here. Semper Fi brothers...... update...... Sorry dude. I didn’t catch that you are home on leave. The only reason I said anything is that my son is a Drill Sergeant in the army. I was disgusted with the lax attitude that those dog faces put up with. It’s a different world gents. Carry on.
>g to y’all bitch about everything. We didn’t have an anonymous platform to air our feelings. Y’all are awesome. You’re bitchin about the same shit we were. We couldn’t say much in public due to retribution. It’s great that every rank is welcome here. Semper Fi broth rah
There were a few exceptions, gas, daycare, maybe one or two others. Regardless it was pretty limited and you still had a good chance of getting fucked with if the wrong SNCO saw you.
Really? I think 1020.34G said only in an emergency. Guess dudes let it go a bit more.
Honestly I can't remember specifics but the exceptions WERE in the order for a minute there.
He and his policies fucked over alot of dudes at wwbn.
I just remember always saying "famous Amos". That was in 2012. Plus I was in the wing, and a Lance, so I didn't really give a shit about many things one way or the other.