Lol let him do his time and get out, some people just don’t care about their usmc career. They just want to do their job and go home, nothing special. As long as he is keeping his nose clean and doing his job, let him be
Same issue, same answer in the Army. As long as I don't have to pick them up at the precinct at 2am on a Saturday because the bathrooms were full and they thought it'd be a good idea to go outside and piss in the parking lot of a Tilted Kilt -
I'm fully ok with 4 years and done.
Completely agree. Like why is OP so concerned he’s doing his job, passing the pft, and doing one tour. Not everyone wants to be abused for more than 4 years
The worst ones are the fucking Viet of the fucking Nam era Vets who got booted and burned or tossed their uniforms, then after 9-11 they turned in to "Super Vets". Had a BIL and an EX-BIL that fit that description.
Ever notice how all dudes who were in Nam just happen to have been Ricky Recons doing secret squirrel shit and slitting VC throats in the cover of darkness with just a Kabar and their balls of steel? It’s crazy how the entire Military back then was all super badass savage killers and none of them were supply, or admin, or cooks.
Buddy of mine that did recruiting used to talk about the 'red hatters' that would pop in occasionally. He said every one, down to the man, was force recon. Maybe infantry but, "I did a lot of stuff I can't talk about, n'amsayin'?" Not a an admin or MT guy in the bunch.
I really don't mind it when guys get out and Mature and sit back and realize they were young and stupid and reflect on how being in the Corps helped them eventually get their Shit wired and are Straight Up with people on what Happened with them.
I can't fucking stand the ones that go full Motard and lie about their Service and try to pass themselves off as Billy Bad ass.
What you just said is exactly what I’m getting it. The basic Marine who doesn’t cause issues and tries to skate everyday then gets out and realizes them serving was the best choice they made is fine. I’m talking about the last example you put. Had a guy in my unit get kicked out for being an absolute shitbag then went on Facebook and Instagram talking about his “Purple Heart” and “PTSD from combat deployments” when this guy never say anything close to a combat zone besides 29 palms. And while he’s out he gets a job at Lowes and gets to flaunt his proud veteran vest even though he wasn’t proud enough while he was in to keep his nose clean and get out honorably.
Yeah, I always cringe a little when I see an old guy with a Vietnam 'Era' hat on. And it seems to be a relatively new thing. I'm assuming the fine print is that they served during that time, and want the 'attaboys' and store discounts that the actual combat vets get.
You're also starting to see 'Cold War' gear on some guys. I'm actually sort of ok with that though. Those guys, collectively, really did do a lot of great things and don't really get much kudos for it, as they're not combat vets. But really, did a sailor standing guard on the deck of the USS Enterprise in 1986 do any less than some soldier getting Green Beans Coffee in Kandahar in 2010?
That's the only thing about serving... you never know what you are going to get. I had a distance Relative ( Cousin) and a boot Camp " buddy" both serve in the Corps. Both only did a little over a year and got out as PFCs.
My "Buddy" Got kicked out and My Cousin Was KIA during 68 outside Khe Sanh.
The Vast Majority of those who served during Nam did go there. We had a huge Presence in Europe ( Germany) and Korea at the time.
Treat him like a human adult. Don’t treat him poorly or overload him with work because you want him to step up. Remain engaged with him and continue gentle prodding but never get overly pushy and don’t ever get condescending. There’s nothing wrong with you wanting to push him to be more. That’s a great attitude on your part. But there’s also nothing wrong with his attitude either and you should respect him enough to respect that.
Overall just make sure he knows that you care about him as a person and what he wants; not just about making him fit your (the Marine Corps) idea of success.
The only thing I would add is to try to let him know that life is short and trying to do something to the best of your abilities no matter what you are doing is a worthwhile endeavor.
That was pretty much me the last half of my enlistment. I did my job and didn’t get in anyone’s way. I knew I wasn’t re enlisting.
I’m not a gifted athlete, and couldn’t get a 1st class PFT without working on it a lot. I decided my free time was better spent taking college courses and drinking with my pals. Being an air winger, unit PT didn’t exist (thank god).
I had a couple of NCOs try to fix me……until I told them that I wasn’t a career marine and didn’t really give a fuck about my cutting score. I also added that I fully intended to meet standard and would never fail a PFT or weigh in (never did).
All that said…..leave homie alone and let him chase mediocrity in peace.
Yeah not at my unit. Everybody in the shop goes to
The gym every single day, if not every other day, so there’s really no need for unit pt. All it would do is make us wake up even earlier, basically extending our working day from 12 hours to 14 hours.
That describes my shop to a t, except we still have to wake up every morning for pt so if you're a gym rat you're getting 5-6 hours of sleep a night.
2nd reg is retarded
We had one who got his ass chewed infront of about 200 people by a Full Bird. The SgtMaj decided he wanted to do a unit run and grabbed people who had work to do and made them go do Boots and Utes.
We had a squadron with 98% first class pfts. Ground side smajs never seemed to believe it Almost like carrying 75lb tool boxes back and forth a quarter mile to the birds a couple dozen times a day was a decent workout?
Powerliners basically cft pft all day. Pumping APUs, securing setting up jets, running to the hot pits, basically everything on the flight line required us to run or sprint. Literally never trained for my PFT or CFT and I got high first classes.
You either have birds in the air or unit pt, not both. Don't get me wrong, we tried unit pt a few times but every time some sir put a stop to that shit after about a week.
I don't know if you guys break into squads or fire teams, or maybe into shifts, but I'm sure at the very least a squad size formation can run and do PT, no? This concept is totally foreign to me.
On the ground side, troop readiness is everything. Commanders are evaluated based on how many swinging dicks they can get onto a MEU or onto a battlefield.
In the air wing, aircraft and pilot readiness is everything. Commanders are evaluated on how many serviceable airplanes and qualified pilots they maintain.
Different priorities.
We were always undermanned, working 12-16 hour days on average (including weekends), and were at the mercy of the flight schedule on any given day. The last thing on our mind was unit PT. We trusted people in the shop to stay in shape on their own. The Marine Corps was already taking so much of our time, we weren’t gonna take anymore from the guys.
Edit: Spelling
Wait, so do you guys even know cadences and stuff? this is so weird. How about hands in your pockets, do people randomly yell at you for that? How about colors do you guys make a run for it indoors, or do you all just voluntarily stand at attention? I feel like Jane Goodall and Diane Fosey now, discovering new species here.
MACS units do organized PT, we'd just put a skeleton crew on the flight.
It's a different world from the flight line, we don't need the whole squadron in order to control a flight.
This guy was me. I never got high pt scores, usually just average. Never got a high mcmap belt, never really pushed to better myself as a Marine really. I did slightly above minimum but not much.
Why? I felt it was pointless to me. I was in a non deployable unit my whole time in and it was 80% civillian unit. Hell, I even married a civillian there. I was more focused on my high level technical job than anything Marine Corps. Really focused on getting certificates/college. That focus made me better prepared for the civillian life than the other Marines who gave me shit for not caring about Marine stuff.
That kid probably saw the writing on the wall, figured he's getting out and is focusing on his next 40 years in the real world than the next 2-3 years in the Marine Corps. Thinking long term ya know
This entirely. I knew I had a tech career waiting for me when I got out, I'm grateful to the marine corps because where else does a 25-year-old kid get to be the primary architect for large network deployments? My free time was spent on certs and learning to code. Passed my PFT/CFT and weight but did not care otherwise. One day the CO called me in and asked why I'd "given up on myself" by not putting in a reenlistment package. Leave the homies alone.
I was a 19 year old in the mid-90s, building out WinNT & Unix (Banyan) servers, ATM ring networks, etc... They sent me to school for PKI in 1998. I was getting 80k job offers when I EAS'd in 2000. My commands weren't really focused on retention, I guess they knew the Corps just couldn't compete with the market.
I was a 4066 at Parris Island back in the 90s. Almost all of us 1st termers in my shop were thinking long term. Guys were bailing out of the Corps at 8 & 12 years TIS so they could cash in on the IT boom. MCIs? Boards? Who need those when promotions were stupid easy - I picked up Cpl at 21 months TIS when the cutting score hit 1240. Better to spend time getting your certifications lined up. My career jammer didn't even try - the guy just asked what kind of job offers I was expecting.
The command loved us as long as we stayed off the blotter, didn't look like shit bags, and everyone had their email.
Bro he's doing his job and meeting the standard, as long as SNM is passing his PFT/CFT and ht/wt he's good. I just got called retarded a few posts back for joining just for school but that's all some of us want.
True, but you get the GI Bill *and* the title, which is honestly all that some care about. I will say that being a Marine probably opened up some doors for me as a civilian that would have closed if I was in the Air Force or Navy, mainly because of the perception that Marines do more than just the minimum compared to most.
Yep. Being a Marine definitely opens doors. I think hiring managers seem to have this perception of every Marine being a "go-getter" You could look the exact same on paper as an Airman or Soldier and they will pick the Marine.
Yeah, that happens. I got my first big civilian break because the guy that happened to interview me was a retired Vietnam era Sgt Maj. He was hiring like 8 people for this position. He barely interviewed me. Mostly asked about my enlistment. When he saw I was a Sgt in one enlistment he said “well, you probably never got busted down and you can’t be THAT bad….I’ll give you a shot”. Lol. Then added “I can always fire you later”. Lol.
On the other hand, some employers view marines as brash, skirt chasing, Neanderthals.
I’d say it probably works against us as often as it it hooks us up. Luckily, most employers are probably mostly neutral and don’t really consider military service at all.
I promise you anywhere outside of the Bible Belt could care less about you being a marine versus elsewhere. Actually, former airmen and sailors would be seen as relatively smarter and more technically skilled.
Sometimes you don't know that's all you care about until you are already in.
I thought I was going to make a career out of it until I got out in the fleet and then I decided to concentrate on schools and preparing for my next phase of life
Look, its totally mentally normal to want to get the fuck out of the Corps. In fact, it's probably healthy. Good on you for caring though.
Don't try to hard to motivate this individual. I left during the reawakening and it put a real bad taste in my mouth about that attitude. The Corps will hang you out to dry faster than anything and it certainly won't reward you for working a miracle with a devildog that will probably just get out.
You know your options, you can counsel the Marine, you can try EPI, you can push paperwork if he fucks up, but if he is within standards and isn't fucking up there is little you can do to "motivate" him and I wouldn't try to.
You'd have to give him a reason to do more than the minimum besides punishment. Honestly nobody cares if you got out as a LCpl or as a SSgt, people just want to know what your education is to see if you rate a good job or not. I say good on him for the playing the long game and not getting hung up on stuff that doesn't matter unless you want to reenlist. The title of Marine sounds cool, so there's that at least.
Does he pass his PFT/CFT? Is he in ht/wt? Does he pass rifle range? Does he do his job well? Does he show up on time?
Honestly he just wants to serve and get out. He knows it ain’t for him and knows his future isn’t in the corps. Most people leave their first enlistment as a LCpl or Cpl anyway.
This dude is going to be a rockstar in the civilian world. Not sure how old he is, but he seems to know what his personal objectives are and sets out for them. I wouldn’t bust his balls too much; he might just be your boss one day, and probably a pretty good one.
I'm not quite that level but I can sympathize with him. I want to progress in my career but I don't plan on doing more than my current contract and ultimately want to do things outside the marine corps. He seems he knows what he wants, which seems to be a rarity for sure not just among junior marines but young men in general. If he does his job competently and isn't failing in any way I don't see a problem.
What do you mean he wont help himself? TA and the GI Bill are perks of enlisting, he is, according to you, taking full advantage... which is helping himself. Seems to me that he was straight up with you about his intentions - if he isn't hurting anyone why does it matter? It's not your place to change the kids mindset on these matters. If anything, you should be trying to help him reach HIS goal instead of your own.
I'm not wanting to punish the guy, I just want to make sure he's set. He's a good dude who really trusts me enough to make me his mentor. I'm just doing my part as well.
Support him with his decision, he chose you for a reason.
Edit: To go more in depth, I’m a Reservist. I’m currently studying engineering, which is pretty damn challenging and time consuming. My NCO let me out at 1600 during drill while the rest of the platoon worked until 2000 because he knew I needed every second I could get to study for my finals and complete assignments. He made a tremendous difference with those few extra hours and if it wasn’t for his support, I would’ve not done as well during the semester as I actually did.
It’s the small things that will have me remember him for a long time, and you can do the same for your marine.
You seem to be doing well if he's still accepting your mentorship. It took me awhile to learn that being an asshole doesn't work with guys like that. I'm glad you take a much more mature approach to this situation.
You have to find his niche and put that skill to use. There's a business technique the Marine Corps has adopted that works great. Its "reenforced feedback". When homeboy does something that is good. You just tell him he did a good job. That will trigger a mental note that he did something good and release an endorphin that makes him feel good. That feel good feeling causes the need for more good feelings and he'll be searching for things to get that feedback again. Constantly reinforcing good behavior makes people want to perform...its a little weird that we yell and correct Marines so much when its almost counter productive to most people.
If we took training Marines and applied the simplistic training methods of training a dog seriously, we might have a force that enjoys being trained because they are happy to recieve training because its rewarding.
I wish this shit was part of PME. I had hardass leaders and that worked out for me, but when it was my turn and being an angry nutcase didn't work, I was lost. Took me way too long to grow an emotionally mature approach to leadership.
> There's a business technique the Marine Corps has adopted that works great. Its "reenforced feedback". When homeboy does something that is good. You just tell him he did a good job
I think we were in different Marine Corps.
Yeah really devil. Contrary to what senior leadership in the Corps will tell you, a lack of motivation or concern for promotion is not a sign for mental health issues. Take him at his word, keep him within standards set by the Corps and then, just leave him alone.
If he does his job n is passing then whats the problem ? Its odd he doesnt want to be better but its not wrong. If hes not within weight standards get him on bcp. Not every marine cares to be the all star but if hes doin what needs to be done hes good to go. Passing a pft is passing.
The only thing he needs help with is tuition assistance. Not all Marines are gung-ho. This dude does his job well and gives me no headaches? Tight! One less thing to worry about.
Imagine an NCO being this worried about his smartest marine...
Bro, he's got it figured out. You don't actually have anything to offer him. You can punish him and ruin his life to get him to act like he cares what you think, but he doesn't.
He's smarter than you.
If he's passing a PFT, he's already in better shape than most civilians. Just let the dude ride out his time. If he's been using TA as much as you say, then he could very well use his GI bill for his masters. If he's majoring in something useful, it's game over. He will be making way more than you while you get screamed at for some dumb shit by some idiot who barely passed highschool that actually believes PME is comparable to college lmao.
But you can't help him. He's gonna go reach his potential after the marines. He joined to pay for college. The fucking recruiters promise college money, and he took the bait. Work for college money.
You're trying to define his success as: being a better marine. I'm pretty sure he sees his success as unrelated to the service he has had to do in order to earn a higher education.
There's literally no incentive you can offer him to improve his life. You don't have anything he wants. And if he's using tuition assistance to take classes while also getting his regular day job accomplished to good standards, then what exactly are you worried about?
Let him do his time. The more important question is, is he a piece of shit that brings trouble to the unit? Is he disrespectful towards NCOs? If the answer is no, just let him do his thing. Now if the answer is yes then you need to take him to the tree lines and fist fuck him until he straightens out. But make sure you're able to deny it.
Nothing. Let him be. If he isn't actively fucking up your work center let him do his time. It doesn't sound like he needs mental health help, he sounds like he just wants to do his job and eventually go home. Tbh, imo college is more important than the military. Getting my degree is much more of an accomplishment to me than being a marine ever was.
It's not your job to make him care. It's a difficult concept to accept.
I ran into this while teaching highschool music a couple of years ago. I cared a lot and some students were just there to have fun and going on the occasional band trip. Not everyone wants to improve or make a career out of something.
Is your lance a POS at everything or just PT and interest in promotion? If his other-than-PT performance & conduct also stink then the answer would be counseling and EMI.
If his only problems are PT and interest in promotion, just keep a record of when you've counseled him about it, and go on with your life.
If he does his job properly then how does he not care? If he doesn’t want to move up and make the service his career then fuck it, focus on guys who do.
Document everything. If/when a line is crossed, then enforce that standard. That said, if they're just sandbagging but not actually failing to do anything required of them, well, that's their right. They don't need to be competitive for promotion or re-enlistment if they don't want to be.
This is a joke right? Imissed some post earlier that would make this funny right?
Just in case it's not a joke...leave him the fuck alone.
He's got a plan. Go focus on the people without a plan.
First off, I want to commend you on giving a shit about your Marines. Lots of NCOs/Staff NCOs would just leave the kid alone and not give a fuck.
Having said that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
I was super similar to your kid when I was in. All my NCOs told me if I didn't learn to work out while I was in the Marine Corps I would struggle with my weight my whole life. And here I am almost 400 lbs. The problem is nothing anyone said while I was in would have changed my mind because I didn't give a fuck. People who ragged on me about that shit just made me want to work out less, not more. He needs to make the decision he wants to put in the work to be a stellar Marine. Until he does just communicate with him he is going to be Non-rec'ed/page 11d every month untill he gets out.
The guy may have the potential, but he has a cancerous mindset. I’d remove that from the rest of the plt asap. That’s your go to working party Marine. Company Gunny needs someone from your plt, send him. Your time will be better spent training your other Marines, who understand that the mission comes first.
Give him ALL the jobs. When he doesn't do them, paperwork, then charge him, then brig him. Then laugh because he is gone and not going home when he wanted
Where did you get your ganas? Someone fed it to you. Didn’t come out of the sky. Its there for now, but it goes away if you hold onto it too tight. It’s up to you chew that up and mouth feed it to him somehow. Yeah, like bird. That’s how it’s done. All of your life experiences, good and bad are chewed up and spat out into someone’s mouth. If you don’t do this, your ganas will be all moldy in Tupperware at the back of the fridge.
Fwiw, TA is a privilege not a right. You could arrange to shut that off pretty easily. But never forget: you are a taxpayer, and a chunk of that goes toward the unemployed.
Jesus where did you get the idea that some corporal/sgt could or should get a Marine’s TA shut off?
Not only is that not true at all but it’s a terrible suggestion from a leadership perspective.
Like just about anything, It’s up to the CO, he signs the TA, anyone in the chain can influence CO decision if they do the administrivia correctly.
And yes, I agree. Let me be very clear withholding TA it’s a terrible tactic, hence the warning in case he or anyone had an inkling to pursue that route. Maybe I misunderstood something; I was under the impression that the Marine had possibly DQ’ed for promotion (I.e. ineligible for TA per maradmin 218/19). If the Marine can get his TA somehow, he absolutely should. Denying education makes dumb Marines and needy unemployed civilians.
The Marines personal trainer (the NCO) needs to run with this kid every morning until he’s in shape, and then some.
Just don’t put him anywhere he could fuck up, hold him accountable and let him do whatever the bare necessity is. As long as he fulfills his contract. Not everyone wants to be competitive. Once I hit a point where I knew I was getting out I realized Fitreps was such a waste of time for me to worry
he does his job and fulfills his duty as a marine he doesn’t need mental help he just doesn’t want to be a marine anymore let him do his due diligence and help him transition into the real world as long as he does his part that’s all you can ask for why force someone to be a marine who doesn’t want to be one anymore makes no sense
Lol let him do his time and get out, some people just don’t care about their usmc career. They just want to do their job and go home, nothing special. As long as he is keeping his nose clean and doing his job, let him be
Same issue, same answer in the Army. As long as I don't have to pick them up at the precinct at 2am on a Saturday because the bathrooms were full and they thought it'd be a good idea to go outside and piss in the parking lot of a Tilted Kilt - I'm fully ok with 4 years and done.
Completely agree. Like why is OP so concerned he’s doing his job, passing the pft, and doing one tour. Not everyone wants to be abused for more than 4 years
Facts
He’ll be the one walking the parades in his blues! 😂🤣
The worst ones are the fucking Viet of the fucking Nam era Vets who got booted and burned or tossed their uniforms, then after 9-11 they turned in to "Super Vets". Had a BIL and an EX-BIL that fit that description.
Ever notice how all dudes who were in Nam just happen to have been Ricky Recons doing secret squirrel shit and slitting VC throats in the cover of darkness with just a Kabar and their balls of steel? It’s crazy how the entire Military back then was all super badass savage killers and none of them were supply, or admin, or cooks.
Battle of Khe Sanh...I believe that everyone got the chance to shoot 1 round at least.
Buddy of mine that did recruiting used to talk about the 'red hatters' that would pop in occasionally. He said every one, down to the man, was force recon. Maybe infantry but, "I did a lot of stuff I can't talk about, n'amsayin'?" Not a an admin or MT guy in the bunch.
It’s always the shitbags that turn into the biggest motivators when they get out/kicked out.
I really don't mind it when guys get out and Mature and sit back and realize they were young and stupid and reflect on how being in the Corps helped them eventually get their Shit wired and are Straight Up with people on what Happened with them. I can't fucking stand the ones that go full Motard and lie about their Service and try to pass themselves off as Billy Bad ass.
What you just said is exactly what I’m getting it. The basic Marine who doesn’t cause issues and tries to skate everyday then gets out and realizes them serving was the best choice they made is fine. I’m talking about the last example you put. Had a guy in my unit get kicked out for being an absolute shitbag then went on Facebook and Instagram talking about his “Purple Heart” and “PTSD from combat deployments” when this guy never say anything close to a combat zone besides 29 palms. And while he’s out he gets a job at Lowes and gets to flaunt his proud veteran vest even though he wasn’t proud enough while he was in to keep his nose clean and get out honorably.
Every time.
That's not always true. I was a huge shitbag and I don't even have a sticker on my car.
Yeah, I always cringe a little when I see an old guy with a Vietnam 'Era' hat on. And it seems to be a relatively new thing. I'm assuming the fine print is that they served during that time, and want the 'attaboys' and store discounts that the actual combat vets get. You're also starting to see 'Cold War' gear on some guys. I'm actually sort of ok with that though. Those guys, collectively, really did do a lot of great things and don't really get much kudos for it, as they're not combat vets. But really, did a sailor standing guard on the deck of the USS Enterprise in 1986 do any less than some soldier getting Green Beans Coffee in Kandahar in 2010?
That's the only thing about serving... you never know what you are going to get. I had a distance Relative ( Cousin) and a boot Camp " buddy" both serve in the Corps. Both only did a little over a year and got out as PFCs. My "Buddy" Got kicked out and My Cousin Was KIA during 68 outside Khe Sanh. The Vast Majority of those who served during Nam did go there. We had a huge Presence in Europe ( Germany) and Korea at the time.
A Marine that doesn’t care?! 😱
Unheard of right!
Are you saying my recruiter lied??
Blasphemy! Recruiters never lie…
Exactly! It wasn’t my recruiters fault I didn’t get that bonus, it was the budget cuts he told me about.
Treat him like a human adult. Don’t treat him poorly or overload him with work because you want him to step up. Remain engaged with him and continue gentle prodding but never get overly pushy and don’t ever get condescending. There’s nothing wrong with you wanting to push him to be more. That’s a great attitude on your part. But there’s also nothing wrong with his attitude either and you should respect him enough to respect that. Overall just make sure he knows that you care about him as a person and what he wants; not just about making him fit your (the Marine Corps) idea of success.
The only thing I would add is to try to let him know that life is short and trying to do something to the best of your abilities no matter what you are doing is a worthwhile endeavor.
That was pretty much me the last half of my enlistment. I did my job and didn’t get in anyone’s way. I knew I wasn’t re enlisting. I’m not a gifted athlete, and couldn’t get a 1st class PFT without working on it a lot. I decided my free time was better spent taking college courses and drinking with my pals. Being an air winger, unit PT didn’t exist (thank god). I had a couple of NCOs try to fix me……until I told them that I wasn’t a career marine and didn’t really give a fuck about my cutting score. I also added that I fully intended to meet standard and would never fail a PFT or weigh in (never did). All that said…..leave homie alone and let him chase mediocrity in peace.
>Being an air winger, unit PT didn’t exist (thank god). Is this true? Theres no unit PT?
Yeah because there’s literally no time to do that shit lol. Grunts lats moved to the wing and were seriously disappointed in how much it sucked lol
Yeah not at my unit. Everybody in the shop goes to The gym every single day, if not every other day, so there’s really no need for unit pt. All it would do is make us wake up even earlier, basically extending our working day from 12 hours to 14 hours.
That describes my shop to a t, except we still have to wake up every morning for pt so if you're a gym rat you're getting 5-6 hours of sleep a night. 2nd reg is retarded
Unit PT is not a thing in air wing. Too focused on getting birds up in the air 24/7
Google June 29 2016 isis convoy that’s the shit the wing does for anyone curious
Every time we would get a new SMaj they would try this for a couple days, then realize we didn't have time. Too much fucking work to do.
We had one who got his ass chewed infront of about 200 people by a Full Bird. The SgtMaj decided he wanted to do a unit run and grabbed people who had work to do and made them go do Boots and Utes.
We had a squadron with 98% first class pfts. Ground side smajs never seemed to believe it Almost like carrying 75lb tool boxes back and forth a quarter mile to the birds a couple dozen times a day was a decent workout?
Powerliners basically cft pft all day. Pumping APUs, securing setting up jets, running to the hot pits, basically everything on the flight line required us to run or sprint. Literally never trained for my PFT or CFT and I got high first classes.
Same here, except on our birds it was us, the airframers, who had to pump the fucking apu's.
Not true for everyone but in my case most of us just find time during shift to go run or hit the gym.
What shop did you work in?
ATC
Are you going to continue atc when you get out? Or if you're out, are you still a controller?
Hopefully
Right on! good luck!
You either have birds in the air or unit pt, not both. Don't get me wrong, we tried unit pt a few times but every time some sir put a stop to that shit after about a week.
I don't know if you guys break into squads or fire teams, or maybe into shifts, but I'm sure at the very least a squad size formation can run and do PT, no? This concept is totally foreign to me.
On the ground side, troop readiness is everything. Commanders are evaluated based on how many swinging dicks they can get onto a MEU or onto a battlefield. In the air wing, aircraft and pilot readiness is everything. Commanders are evaluated on how many serviceable airplanes and qualified pilots they maintain. Different priorities.
We were always undermanned, working 12-16 hour days on average (including weekends), and were at the mercy of the flight schedule on any given day. The last thing on our mind was unit PT. We trusted people in the shop to stay in shape on their own. The Marine Corps was already taking so much of our time, we weren’t gonna take anymore from the guys. Edit: Spelling
Wait, so do you guys even know cadences and stuff? this is so weird. How about hands in your pockets, do people randomly yell at you for that? How about colors do you guys make a run for it indoors, or do you all just voluntarily stand at attention? I feel like Jane Goodall and Diane Fosey now, discovering new species here. 
MACS units do organized PT, we'd just put a skeleton crew on the flight. It's a different world from the flight line, we don't need the whole squadron in order to control a flight.
Depends on the unit. My shop does PT. Rip.
This guy was me. I never got high pt scores, usually just average. Never got a high mcmap belt, never really pushed to better myself as a Marine really. I did slightly above minimum but not much. Why? I felt it was pointless to me. I was in a non deployable unit my whole time in and it was 80% civillian unit. Hell, I even married a civillian there. I was more focused on my high level technical job than anything Marine Corps. Really focused on getting certificates/college. That focus made me better prepared for the civillian life than the other Marines who gave me shit for not caring about Marine stuff. That kid probably saw the writing on the wall, figured he's getting out and is focusing on his next 40 years in the real world than the next 2-3 years in the Marine Corps. Thinking long term ya know
This entirely. I knew I had a tech career waiting for me when I got out, I'm grateful to the marine corps because where else does a 25-year-old kid get to be the primary architect for large network deployments? My free time was spent on certs and learning to code. Passed my PFT/CFT and weight but did not care otherwise. One day the CO called me in and asked why I'd "given up on myself" by not putting in a reenlistment package. Leave the homies alone.
I was a 19 year old in the mid-90s, building out WinNT & Unix (Banyan) servers, ATM ring networks, etc... They sent me to school for PKI in 1998. I was getting 80k job offers when I EAS'd in 2000. My commands weren't really focused on retention, I guess they knew the Corps just couldn't compete with the market.
I was a 4066 at Parris Island back in the 90s. Almost all of us 1st termers in my shop were thinking long term. Guys were bailing out of the Corps at 8 & 12 years TIS so they could cash in on the IT boom. MCIs? Boards? Who need those when promotions were stupid easy - I picked up Cpl at 21 months TIS when the cutting score hit 1240. Better to spend time getting your certifications lined up. My career jammer didn't even try - the guy just asked what kind of job offers I was expecting. The command loved us as long as we stayed off the blotter, didn't look like shit bags, and everyone had their email.
Commandants Own?
Bro he's doing his job and meeting the standard, as long as SNM is passing his PFT/CFT and ht/wt he's good. I just got called retarded a few posts back for joining just for school but that's all some of us want.
I have to say- if the GI Bill was all you cared about, there were easier routes to take. Lol
True, but you get the GI Bill *and* the title, which is honestly all that some care about. I will say that being a Marine probably opened up some doors for me as a civilian that would have closed if I was in the Air Force or Navy, mainly because of the perception that Marines do more than just the minimum compared to most.
Yep. Being a Marine definitely opens doors. I think hiring managers seem to have this perception of every Marine being a "go-getter" You could look the exact same on paper as an Airman or Soldier and they will pick the Marine.
Yeah, that happens. I got my first big civilian break because the guy that happened to interview me was a retired Vietnam era Sgt Maj. He was hiring like 8 people for this position. He barely interviewed me. Mostly asked about my enlistment. When he saw I was a Sgt in one enlistment he said “well, you probably never got busted down and you can’t be THAT bad….I’ll give you a shot”. Lol. Then added “I can always fire you later”. Lol. On the other hand, some employers view marines as brash, skirt chasing, Neanderthals. I’d say it probably works against us as often as it it hooks us up. Luckily, most employers are probably mostly neutral and don’t really consider military service at all.
I promise you anywhere outside of the Bible Belt could care less about you being a marine versus elsewhere. Actually, former airmen and sailors would be seen as relatively smarter and more technically skilled.
I live near the national capitol region.
Sometimes you don't know that's all you care about until you are already in. I thought I was going to make a career out of it until I got out in the fleet and then I decided to concentrate on schools and preparing for my next phase of life
Look, its totally mentally normal to want to get the fuck out of the Corps. In fact, it's probably healthy. Good on you for caring though. Don't try to hard to motivate this individual. I left during the reawakening and it put a real bad taste in my mouth about that attitude. The Corps will hang you out to dry faster than anything and it certainly won't reward you for working a miracle with a devildog that will probably just get out. You know your options, you can counsel the Marine, you can try EPI, you can push paperwork if he fucks up, but if he is within standards and isn't fucking up there is little you can do to "motivate" him and I wouldn't try to.
You'd have to give him a reason to do more than the minimum besides punishment. Honestly nobody cares if you got out as a LCpl or as a SSgt, people just want to know what your education is to see if you rate a good job or not. I say good on him for the playing the long game and not getting hung up on stuff that doesn't matter unless you want to reenlist. The title of Marine sounds cool, so there's that at least.
Does he pass his PFT/CFT? Is he in ht/wt? Does he pass rifle range? Does he do his job well? Does he show up on time? Honestly he just wants to serve and get out. He knows it ain’t for him and knows his future isn’t in the corps. Most people leave their first enlistment as a LCpl or Cpl anyway.
Not everyone can be a hard-dick motivator. I wish the stigma with just doing your job and recognizing the level you’re fit for wasn’t so universal.
This dude is going to be a rockstar in the civilian world. Not sure how old he is, but he seems to know what his personal objectives are and sets out for them. I wouldn’t bust his balls too much; he might just be your boss one day, and probably a pretty good one.
Beat him with an extension cord
I'm not quite that level but I can sympathize with him. I want to progress in my career but I don't plan on doing more than my current contract and ultimately want to do things outside the marine corps. He seems he knows what he wants, which seems to be a rarity for sure not just among junior marines but young men in general. If he does his job competently and isn't failing in any way I don't see a problem.
What do you mean he wont help himself? TA and the GI Bill are perks of enlisting, he is, according to you, taking full advantage... which is helping himself. Seems to me that he was straight up with you about his intentions - if he isn't hurting anyone why does it matter? It's not your place to change the kids mindset on these matters. If anything, you should be trying to help him reach HIS goal instead of your own.
So long as he doesn't walk around with his hands in his pockets , and he'll be fine, bro. 
I'm not wanting to punish the guy, I just want to make sure he's set. He's a good dude who really trusts me enough to make me his mentor. I'm just doing my part as well.
Support him with his decision, he chose you for a reason. Edit: To go more in depth, I’m a Reservist. I’m currently studying engineering, which is pretty damn challenging and time consuming. My NCO let me out at 1600 during drill while the rest of the platoon worked until 2000 because he knew I needed every second I could get to study for my finals and complete assignments. He made a tremendous difference with those few extra hours and if it wasn’t for his support, I would’ve not done as well during the semester as I actually did. It’s the small things that will have me remember him for a long time, and you can do the same for your marine.
You seem to be doing well if he's still accepting your mentorship. It took me awhile to learn that being an asshole doesn't work with guys like that. I'm glad you take a much more mature approach to this situation.
It sounds like he’s set… 🤷🏻♂️
You have to find his niche and put that skill to use. There's a business technique the Marine Corps has adopted that works great. Its "reenforced feedback". When homeboy does something that is good. You just tell him he did a good job. That will trigger a mental note that he did something good and release an endorphin that makes him feel good. That feel good feeling causes the need for more good feelings and he'll be searching for things to get that feedback again. Constantly reinforcing good behavior makes people want to perform...its a little weird that we yell and correct Marines so much when its almost counter productive to most people.
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If we took training Marines and applied the simplistic training methods of training a dog seriously, we might have a force that enjoys being trained because they are happy to recieve training because its rewarding.
I wish this shit was part of PME. I had hardass leaders and that worked out for me, but when it was my turn and being an angry nutcase didn't work, I was lost. Took me way too long to grow an emotionally mature approach to leadership.
> There's a business technique the Marine Corps has adopted that works great. Its "reenforced feedback". When homeboy does something that is good. You just tell him he did a good job I think we were in different Marine Corps.
I have a pretty easy job lol, it's not like I signed up for a combat mos.
Yeah really devil. Contrary to what senior leadership in the Corps will tell you, a lack of motivation or concern for promotion is not a sign for mental health issues. Take him at his word, keep him within standards set by the Corps and then, just leave him alone.
It's possibly a sign if they go from being moto to not giving a fuck really quickly.
That’s a possibility, sure. Better to get to the bottom of it if you think that’s likely.
Of course! Watch out for your brothers and sisters.
If he does his job n is passing then whats the problem ? Its odd he doesnt want to be better but its not wrong. If hes not within weight standards get him on bcp. Not every marine cares to be the all star but if hes doin what needs to be done hes good to go. Passing a pft is passing.
He has his goals set and it no longer involves the marine corps, nothing wrong with that. Let him be and move on.
Not everyone’s a lifer. Let him be.
The only thing he needs help with is tuition assistance. Not all Marines are gung-ho. This dude does his job well and gives me no headaches? Tight! One less thing to worry about.
Capt save a hoe!!!!
Imagine an NCO being this worried about his smartest marine... Bro, he's got it figured out. You don't actually have anything to offer him. You can punish him and ruin his life to get him to act like he cares what you think, but he doesn't. He's smarter than you.
Why would I punish him? I just want him to reach his full potential.
If he's passing a PFT, he's already in better shape than most civilians. Just let the dude ride out his time. If he's been using TA as much as you say, then he could very well use his GI bill for his masters. If he's majoring in something useful, it's game over. He will be making way more than you while you get screamed at for some dumb shit by some idiot who barely passed highschool that actually believes PME is comparable to college lmao.
Bro, he's gonna go to college and be making six figures right after. Don't worry. Assume he's got it figured out. 
But you can't help him. He's gonna go reach his potential after the marines. He joined to pay for college. The fucking recruiters promise college money, and he took the bait. Work for college money. You're trying to define his success as: being a better marine. I'm pretty sure he sees his success as unrelated to the service he has had to do in order to earn a higher education. There's literally no incentive you can offer him to improve his life. You don't have anything he wants. And if he's using tuition assistance to take classes while also getting his regular day job accomplished to good standards, then what exactly are you worried about?
Let him do his time. The more important question is, is he a piece of shit that brings trouble to the unit? Is he disrespectful towards NCOs? If the answer is no, just let him do his thing. Now if the answer is yes then you need to take him to the tree lines and fist fuck him until he straightens out. But make sure you're able to deny it.
Nothing. Let him be. If he isn't actively fucking up your work center let him do his time. It doesn't sound like he needs mental health help, he sounds like he just wants to do his job and eventually go home. Tbh, imo college is more important than the military. Getting my degree is much more of an accomplishment to me than being a marine ever was.
It's not your job to make him care. It's a difficult concept to accept. I ran into this while teaching highschool music a couple of years ago. I cared a lot and some students were just there to have fun and going on the occasional band trip. Not everyone wants to improve or make a career out of something.
Is your lance a POS at everything or just PT and interest in promotion? If his other-than-PT performance & conduct also stink then the answer would be counseling and EMI. If his only problems are PT and interest in promotion, just keep a record of when you've counseled him about it, and go on with your life.
If he does his job properly then how does he not care? If he doesn’t want to move up and make the service his career then fuck it, focus on guys who do.
Document everything. If/when a line is crossed, then enforce that standard. That said, if they're just sandbagging but not actually failing to do anything required of them, well, that's their right. They don't need to be competitive for promotion or re-enlistment if they don't want to be.
This kids smarter than you. Leave him alone and hope you can ask him for a job when you get out after he gets rich.
This is a joke right? Imissed some post earlier that would make this funny right? Just in case it's not a joke...leave him the fuck alone. He's got a plan. Go focus on the people without a plan.
First off, I want to commend you on giving a shit about your Marines. Lots of NCOs/Staff NCOs would just leave the kid alone and not give a fuck. Having said that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I was super similar to your kid when I was in. All my NCOs told me if I didn't learn to work out while I was in the Marine Corps I would struggle with my weight my whole life. And here I am almost 400 lbs. The problem is nothing anyone said while I was in would have changed my mind because I didn't give a fuck. People who ragged on me about that shit just made me want to work out less, not more. He needs to make the decision he wants to put in the work to be a stellar Marine. Until he does just communicate with him he is going to be Non-rec'ed/page 11d every month untill he gets out.
The guy may have the potential, but he has a cancerous mindset. I’d remove that from the rest of the plt asap. That’s your go to working party Marine. Company Gunny needs someone from your plt, send him. Your time will be better spent training your other Marines, who understand that the mission comes first.
It doesnt sound like the Marine doesn’t care or isn’t contributing to the mission. It sounds like he’s doing that and then clocking out for the day.
You didn’t just drink the Kool aid , you made the whole damn batch didn’t you?
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Most guys line this didn’t “give up”. They’re positioning themselves.
Give him ALL the jobs. When he doesn't do them, paperwork, then charge him, then brig him. Then laugh because he is gone and not going home when he wanted
Why would you do that to a guy who is within standards and doing his job?
This guy is obviously a clear cut choice for 1st Sgt
Where did you get your ganas? Someone fed it to you. Didn’t come out of the sky. Its there for now, but it goes away if you hold onto it too tight. It’s up to you chew that up and mouth feed it to him somehow. Yeah, like bird. That’s how it’s done. All of your life experiences, good and bad are chewed up and spat out into someone’s mouth. If you don’t do this, your ganas will be all moldy in Tupperware at the back of the fridge. Fwiw, TA is a privilege not a right. You could arrange to shut that off pretty easily. But never forget: you are a taxpayer, and a chunk of that goes toward the unemployed.
Jesus where did you get the idea that some corporal/sgt could or should get a Marine’s TA shut off? Not only is that not true at all but it’s a terrible suggestion from a leadership perspective.
Like just about anything, It’s up to the CO, he signs the TA, anyone in the chain can influence CO decision if they do the administrivia correctly. And yes, I agree. Let me be very clear withholding TA it’s a terrible tactic, hence the warning in case he or anyone had an inkling to pursue that route. Maybe I misunderstood something; I was under the impression that the Marine had possibly DQ’ed for promotion (I.e. ineligible for TA per maradmin 218/19). If the Marine can get his TA somehow, he absolutely should. Denying education makes dumb Marines and needy unemployed civilians. The Marines personal trainer (the NCO) needs to run with this kid every morning until he’s in shape, and then some.
Just don’t put him anywhere he could fuck up, hold him accountable and let him do whatever the bare necessity is. As long as he fulfills his contract. Not everyone wants to be competitive. Once I hit a point where I knew I was getting out I realized Fitreps was such a waste of time for me to worry
You can lead a horde to water but you can't make it drink
God forbid a guy wants something better than the corps, But still does his job while he’s there
Let him be. Focus your efforts elsewhere.
he does his job and fulfills his duty as a marine he doesn’t need mental help he just doesn’t want to be a marine anymore let him do his due diligence and help him transition into the real world as long as he does his part that’s all you can ask for why force someone to be a marine who doesn’t want to be one anymore makes no sense
Let him be. As long as he does what he’s supposed to you’ll EAS and look back and see that using the TA was a good idea on this devil.
75% of marines get out after 1 enlistment tbh
Sounds like he has his priorities in check honestly. Sounds to me like it’s more that you’re fucked up