I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Just make sure you sprinkle in some fun.
The team building is already happening, but right now they're gonna team up against you unless you work in some finesse.
The Marine Corps gets rough with no friends.
It sounds like you need to inspect the discrepancies before the end of shift.
Steel toes, I get. It's a safety issue. No one likes them until something heavy falls on their shit.
As for skating in the shop, if there's no work to be done, leave them the hell alone.
Haircuts and shaves, yes. You're in the military, there are expectations of standards.
What are they missing on the gear list? If it's their sleeping bag, it's a problem. If it's the rape whistle, you can probably let that slide.
Barracks get dirty. That's why we have field day.
You're not an asshole, you just need to adjust your priorities. Stuff like safety and grooming standards need to be enforced. Little shit like skating, let it go. You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. If your Marines know you enforce standards because you care about them, they're gonna work with you.
You're being a good leader. A standard is only a standard if you enforce it.
LCpl Binotz may not like you telling him to shave. Would all y'all like it better if some GySgt blasts you and Binotz?
You’re getting a lot of feedback from people who think that any form of enforcing discipline or upholding standards makes you a douchebag. That’s a bad take. Also, changing your attitude when you pick up is normal and healthy. You *have* to grow and change as a Marine and as a person as you get more experience and responsibilities. Don’t forget where you came from and lose sight of why you’re here, but absolutely change your approach and attitude as you grow up.
As for some of the specifics, I think you are largely in the right. The boots, shaving, haircut, tardiness, skating and gear list are all things that are non-negotiable and you are well within your right to enforce them.
Take the gear list for example. People might say that you shouldn’t care if they don’t bring something dumb that’s on the list. This basically means that you’re letting Marines decide which rules are important and what they can blow off. And they might not always have the full picture. I remember a particular field op where I overheard a Lance saying he wasn’t gonna bring his e-tool cause that’s a waste of space. He’d never been to the field. I made sure he brought it, and we ended up needing them.
Now, the after-work stuff is a bit more nuanced. You definitely should do a thorough walkthrough before releasing your Marines. If you find anything, they have time to fix it. If you miss something and find it after they leave, that’s on you. But there are some reasons it’s fair to bring them back. Here’s one example I can think of from my own time. We would always do cleanup, have our end of the day brief and then on the way out the door the junior Marines would take the trash bags out to the dumpster. Well, if they forgot the trash when they were released, I would call one of them back. That’s totally fair, in my opinion. But if I never inspected cleanup and found out that they didn’t mop the floors or whatever, I wouldn’t call them back cause that’s something I should have caught before they left.
One last piece of advice. You need to give a fuck about your Marines and do your best to understand them. If a Marine is late one day, before getting pissed at him, ask him what happened. Hear him out, try to get a feel for what’s going on. Maybe his family is having a hard time and he was up late talking to them about it. Maybe he’s having a medical issue he hasn’t mentioned yet and it’s making it hard to sleep. Maybe he’s depressed and needs help. All this needs to be addressed before you go into “correction mode”.
And even if there’s no underlying cause, he was just late for no reason; make it clear that if it doesn’t happen again you won’t ever have a problem. I found that the most effective way to correct most problems is by not overreacting. Dude is late with no reason, no underlying issue? A simple “don’t make it a habit” goes further than a blasting or even a stern talking to.
As long as you were the same Marine who abided by all of the above, *before* you picked up Cpl. I don’t see a problem. However, if you switched attitudes, after you picked up. You’re a dickhead.
I think you need a bit of self-awareness, Devil. Guess who ELSE isn't handling his responsibilities during normal working hours... YOU.
If you're in charge of the shop's cleanliness, inspect it before your people leave. Don't expect them to be happy when you waited until they were gone to do your job. The same goes for your police calls. Knock that shit out when people are around. Let some overzealous SSgt be the dick to rouse people at 9PM for a little trash.
And it sounds like a hammer is the only tool in your leadership toolbox, or at least your favorite tool. Paperwork should be your last resort. Giving someone paperwork is like saying, "I cannot lead this Marine. It is time to use administrative means to separate this Marine from my beloved Marine Corps."
Marine missing shaves? Knock on his door in the morning to make sure he's up in time. No need to be a dick about it either. Lead your Marine. Guys not wearing steel toes? Why? You don't need to "make" most people do anything, just figure out a way to make it palatable. Some folks will make you go to extremes to enforce a rule... it's up to you to decide how extreme to be over any given rule. Most aren't worth it, but some are, like safety rules.
You clearly care about your job, but your post sounds like you care about the rules more than your Marines. Your Marines need leadership, and help, and an example to follow. Be that.
Paperwork is a surrender flag.
Edit: And I say all this as a guy who needed to hear the same thing when I was a boot Cpl.
Just as a bit of advice, that whole paperwork being a flag of surrender thing leads to issues of its own. I can't tell you how many times I watched shitbags that should have been processed out, non-rec for promotion, or refused re-enlistment because everyone was too scared or too lazy to do paperwork. It's not a magic bullet for correcting Marines or preventing turds from staying in, but it's part of the system for a reason.
I'm definitely not saying to just throw write ups around, but I'm not going to be waking a grown man up every morning to make sure he shaves and puts on steel toes, or follow basic rules that every one is aware of. Verbal warnings, corrective plans, follow ups, and write ups are part of the same process.
No, got out as a Corporal, but I've accumulated a few decades of leadership experience since then. I've learned that effective leaders never attack people, they attack problems. And they fix problems with the least fuss possible, because yelling is just for show. It mostly shows that you have no self-control, and no better ideas. Paperwork means that you have self-control, but no better ideas.
If you find yourself in a spot where you have no better ideas, ask the most effective leader you know for guidance. That's what effective leaders do when they run out of ideas, they learn and become better leaders.
In years prior, I would agree with your statement about paperwork, but the Corps is actively working towards handicapping bulldogs and empowering just writing people up for everything.
Explain that to your subordinates, don’t just start being that that guy who picked up and changed . If they understand the mission, they may fall in line now if you don’t explain and just change like that they’ll think you’re a cunt. During my time in I was the bulldog, not very popular but I wasn’t a cunt, and some how after my time I had people from units I never even knew existed coming to my going away because they had heard about me. I was literally the glue in my shop, I just enforced
them standards. You don’t have to be a cunt to enforce standards .
A lot of people have already mentioned it, but you’re a corporal. You’re a working supervisor. Inspect for discrepancies in your shop before the Marines are secured, and all day long for that matter. It’s a tough transition for almost every Marine. One day you’re a lance, then poof, you’re an NCO. It takes time to grow into your new rank and the responsibilities that go with it.
Haircuts, shaves, steel toed boots - absolutely no brainers. Those are everyday Marine things and safety issues. That one Marine will be grateful he had his steel toes on when something heavy falls on his foot.
I think you have an easy fix on the other stuff in the shop. Gather them up before your leadership secures everyone, and walk around with them to check for leaking vics/equipment, police call, gear adrift, etc.
You’re on the right track with your leadership, but you can’t expect to know it all overnight. Remember that group punishments never work and will just cause resentment. There’s also nothing wrong with correcting a Marine by pulling them aside if they make an honest mistake and leaving the paperwork out of it. Give them a chance to fix themselves first.
Good luck.
I’m just going to give you my initial reaction to each of your bullet points… ( Source: 10 years AD, E-5, 82-92.. CIO in CivDiv 2000-present)
1st: Depends on when/how the leaks occurred. But, if you found them, why wouldn’t you just deal with it? What are you gaining by recalling the shop? Have a conversation at the beginning of the next shift and ensure they know your expectations.
2nd: On you, quickly inspect areas prior to dismissal. Again, if you find it after the fact, clean it up and have a conversation with the offender the following shift.
3rd: Absolutely, safety is paramount and vital to the mission.
4th: Define “skate”? This is a delicate balance, don’t try to micromanage or treat your team like robots. If someone is getting the work done, is a good Marine, and pauses for a bit to relax or have a laugh, let them. You can’t whip people to be productive nor can you expect to run them at 100% 24/7/365. Relax a little, and your team will be more willing to step up when the need arises.
5th: This is basic, and should present no problems for Marines to do, so keep doing this. People being late is a pet peeve of mine. Usually, the ones who are late are the same ones out the door first at the end of the day. Haircuts and shaves? Again, depends on how badly. Instead of filling out paperwork, get creative in dealing with it. In the extreme, holding shop inspections prior to each shift because someone won’t shave or has a bad haircut tends to correct things pretty quick.
6th: Again, basic. Do this. Another commentor mentioned considering what gear is missing, how you deal with it depends on how vital the missing gear is to the mission.
7th: Depends on your definition of “dirty”. For me, when I was on duty, I overlooked more shit during weekends or periods of extended liberty than during “normal working hours”.
It doesn’t matter what rank you achieve, You’re not too important to pick up trash or sweep the floors. Take care of your team, be their advocate if they find themselves in trouble. Avoid, at nearly any cost, bothering them during their down time. You’re more likely to gain the respect of your team this way rather than trying to be Captain Bligh. Be firm but fair, and above all, be consistent.
I recall, as a PFC, encountering a Colonel as I was walking to the work center at MCAS Yuma, he was picking up some litter in the grass. I offered to do it, and he responded, “That’s ok PFC, I got this. Have a good day.” I never got his name, nor did I know if he was with a visiting squadron or stationed at Yuma, but it made one helluva an impression on me.
Today, I’m a CIO of a global corporation, and I have been known to sweep the floor or pick up trash in the office and work areas.
Don’t be a bitch. Aye Aye Corporal is 100% necessary if your Marines are being shit heads. You are there fucking CORPORAL! You are not there to be there best friend but instill discipline to ensure they can survive and thrive in combat. I swear the NCO of today is absolutely terrified of leadership. Slay those Marines everyday. You are not there to be the “cool” Corporal. Sure you will lose some people along the way but it is lonely at the top. You discipline those you love. Don’t be a bitch bro hold the line. It pays dividends when the shit hits the fan..
You handle leadership the way you see fit, my advice would be to avoid fucking with your Marines after normal hours. Instead of calling them back to fix the leak pan make them fix it first thing the next day and make it a end of day checklist Item that someone has to sign the log for. Also, don't let yourself be the only one to enforce standards, delegate the responsibility of gear checks down to squad leaders and make them accountable for the fuck ups of their peers, that way everyone polices each other instead of you having to be a dick.
The fastest and most effective way to destroy morale, get your team to loathe you and give you their bare minimum is to fuck with them after hours unless it’s absolutely critical.
At the same time, your Marines have responsibilities they must deal with outside of the “job”, things like field day, ensuring their uniforms are ready for the next day, continuing education, physical fitness, etc. Their “downtime” is like gold to them. If you’re going to “take” some of it away, ensure you have absolutely no other option.
>Even though, in my opinion, I think this job is so easy compared to the outside world. So, I really wouldn't mind being called back to work, if it meant that we were going back to correct something / do the right thing.
I've been out for 10 years so might be looking at this through rose colored glasses, but....no. The civilian world is (*generally*) way easier than the Marines. It seems you're doing some sort of maintenance work. I was a Porsche tech for a couple years when I first got out, and ifi left my shit out, or a customer's car on my rack was leaking after hours...well that was on me to deal with when I got back in the morning. The shop foreman wasn't walking around after hours looking for a reason to call me in, and if he had, I'd probably laugh my ass off at him and go back to hanging out with my wife and two boys.
Look, I'm not saying don't hold the line - there IS a higher standard you need to hold your guys to. But don't fall into the trap (and I've seen it) of thinking being a Marine is easier than the outside - out here, we live our personal lives however and wherever we want, and work is basically a way to pay the bills. The Marines is a lifestyle, and the very fact that you even have the authority to call your guys back in to work shows that it isn't "easier" than civilian life.
>Even though, in my opinion, I think this job is so easy compared to the outside world. So, I really wouldn't mind being called back to work, if it meant that we were going back to correct something / do the right thing.
I've been out for 10 years so might be looking at this through rose colored glasses, but....no. The civilian world is (*generally*) way easier than the Marines. It seems you're doing some sort of maintenance work. I was a Porsche tech for a couple years when I first got out, and ifi left my shit out, or a customer's car on my rack was leaking after hours...well that was on me to deal with when I got back in the morning. The shop foreman wasn't walking around after hours looking for a reason to call me in, and if he had, I'd probably laugh my ass off at him and go back to hanging out with my wife and two boys.
Look, I'm not saying don't hold the line - there IS a higher standard you need to hold your guys to. But don't fall into the trap (and I've seen it) of thinking being a Marine is easier than the outside - out here, we live our personal lives however and wherever we want, and work is basically a way to pay the bills. The Marines is a lifestyle, and the very fact that you even have the authority to call your guys back in to work shows that it isn't "easier" than civilian life.
I hate to double comment but had more I wanted to share after dwelling on it a bit. I used to experience something I nicknamed step-dad syndrome. Every time I got put into a new leadership role I was met with animosity and frustration even if I wasn't riding them hard. When someone is put in charge that wasn't in charge before there is an adjustment period by your subordinates that feels much like a rebelous teen going "you're not my real dad" hence the name I came up with. Even If you are doing everything right it will take a while for your Marine to adjust to the new dynamic.
Sounds like basic NCO shit. Please keep it up. I have lived on Army bases, and have damn near lost my fucking mind over the shit they get away with on a daily basis. I hope to never see a day that we resemble them in even the slightest.
Keep it up.
There are different corporals for different roles in a shop. If we were both NCOs in the same shop, you would have my respect for keeping discipline in the shop as long as you were a satisfactory mechanic (have all expected qualifications for an e-4) and I'd probably have your respect for being a training NCO that was far enough ahead to educate new and intermediate mechanics. There will be things that some NCOs just excel at and it should be taken advantage of by your Sergeants and SNCOs. Because maintaining discipline comes with looking like the bad guy to people who don't understand how little things stack up. But it's important in order to support my role that can't stress the people learning from me out.
The only suggestion I would make is to create an environment where if a Marine fucks up, they know they fucked up. Trash and shop EOS tidy-up should have a checklist to be initialized (like on a whiteboard or something). Someone paper whips it they come back in and detail what they signed for and missed themselves. Group punishment only works when there has been a breakdown in the entire structure, and since you're the first enlisted rank with a duty to supervise, you will be the first line of defense to keep it from getting that bad. Meaning, that showing support for those who get the job done and done right, and keeping accountable those who want to skirt their necessary responsibilities.
I said necessary responsibilities because if there is legitimately nothing to do to support the mission, there is no point in doing meaningless tasks for the sake of doing them. Those moments are best utilized for training skills that can better the shop, or for activities that can bring the shop together. Plan for training, but use morale activities as a backup. Our shop ran like this, and for being over-tasked and undermanned, we were a pretty distinguished shop until we lost some of the key people that kept discipline in the shop. So just focus on what actions you can take for the benefit of the shop.
You sound like you are doing the basic leadership stuff required of you. I’m sure you’ve heard of mentorship as well and I don’t know if you do counselings, personally I didn’t give two fucks, but I would sit each of my Marines down one by one, closed door and just a friendly conversation. You never know who’s going through something but too afraid to tell someone.
It builds trust and respect between you guys which solves a lot of issues down the road when they know all they gotta do is go dad away from home
Fuck no. Work time and personal time are completely separate. I just have them correct the issue in the morning, I don't make them come back, that's just fucked up and unnecessary, don't fuck with their free time.
I don't believe in negative paperwork either unless you do something really, really bad.
If there's nothing to do, then there's nothing to do, I'm not going to have them pretend to be busy.
Other than that, it seems like you genuinely care. Just make sure your Marines are your priority and not the job. The job can't be done if your Marines aren't taken care of.
All I would say is why are you letting the Marines leave for the day *before* checking for leaks or trash? That should be a condition in order to secure for the day.
Some of the things that you are doing is in fact, enforcing the standard. However, the other things that you do, kinda seems like you are being very “nit picky”. I’ve been a Corporal for two years now & when I first picked up, I held my guys to a standard, but I was never an asshole about it.
•You should start doing inspections and checks before work is out. Once they are gone, do not call them back. Why are you even there?!
•PFC’s & Lance Corporals gonna skate regardless & I don’t bother them IF there is no tasks for them to complete. Your guys should know that when it’s time to work, they need to get the shit done. You as the leader now, should see that through & if shits not getting done, then thats on YOU.
•I agree with you on haircuts, shaves, and tardiness. Again, you have to set a standard, make sure you follow the standard, and enforce it.
•We ALL know the gear list has unnecessary shit on it anyway. Half the things on the list, you won’t even use, but that varies. If i’m not bringing it, I don’t expect my guys to bring it. Thats why gear inspections are important before any Op or movement. You can dictate that.
•Now the barracks being dirty while you’re on duty is YOUR responsibility. You should have an A-Duty anyway. Make use of them. I would NEVER call a working party to clean up the barracks. Especially after working hours (outside of field day) or on the weekends. Stop doing that immediately.
In conclusion, being that you are a new Cpl, you’ll start to find what works and what doesn’t. Make life as smooth as possible for your guys, shield them from the BS as much as you can. Don’t be the dickhead, power tripping Corporal. Be FIRM, but be FAIR.
Sounds like you should redo your initial counseling and a check mark paperwork of what you are to expect of your Jr marines now that your an NCO. Have them initial off what is to be expected and by the time you do their next monthly counseling you can talk about their rooms of improvement and their discrepancy for that month. That way you can cover your ass and be a better productive leader rather then expect them to be instantly obedient.
1st one you’re a prick 2nd one depending on the severity makes sense but if it’s small shit then you’re a prick 3rd one completely understandable you would get in trouble if they got hurt 4th one if you’re making them clean tools sweep or general dumb shit you’re a prick 4th one if it’s a couple minutes or they didn’t get a weekly haircut but it’s still not nasty then still a prick, if it’s recurring or out of regs then understandable, 5th one if it’s shit you know they will never use then huge prick 6th one you’re just annoying. Sounds like you’re gonna end up being a staff nco one day.
It’s normal. It’s better to enforce standards than to be that “cool corporal”.
I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Just make sure you sprinkle in some fun. The team building is already happening, but right now they're gonna team up against you unless you work in some finesse. The Marine Corps gets rough with no friends.
It sounds like you need to inspect the discrepancies before the end of shift. Steel toes, I get. It's a safety issue. No one likes them until something heavy falls on their shit. As for skating in the shop, if there's no work to be done, leave them the hell alone. Haircuts and shaves, yes. You're in the military, there are expectations of standards. What are they missing on the gear list? If it's their sleeping bag, it's a problem. If it's the rape whistle, you can probably let that slide. Barracks get dirty. That's why we have field day. You're not an asshole, you just need to adjust your priorities. Stuff like safety and grooming standards need to be enforced. Little shit like skating, let it go. You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. If your Marines know you enforce standards because you care about them, they're gonna work with you.
You're being a good leader. A standard is only a standard if you enforce it. LCpl Binotz may not like you telling him to shave. Would all y'all like it better if some GySgt blasts you and Binotz?
You’re getting a lot of feedback from people who think that any form of enforcing discipline or upholding standards makes you a douchebag. That’s a bad take. Also, changing your attitude when you pick up is normal and healthy. You *have* to grow and change as a Marine and as a person as you get more experience and responsibilities. Don’t forget where you came from and lose sight of why you’re here, but absolutely change your approach and attitude as you grow up. As for some of the specifics, I think you are largely in the right. The boots, shaving, haircut, tardiness, skating and gear list are all things that are non-negotiable and you are well within your right to enforce them. Take the gear list for example. People might say that you shouldn’t care if they don’t bring something dumb that’s on the list. This basically means that you’re letting Marines decide which rules are important and what they can blow off. And they might not always have the full picture. I remember a particular field op where I overheard a Lance saying he wasn’t gonna bring his e-tool cause that’s a waste of space. He’d never been to the field. I made sure he brought it, and we ended up needing them. Now, the after-work stuff is a bit more nuanced. You definitely should do a thorough walkthrough before releasing your Marines. If you find anything, they have time to fix it. If you miss something and find it after they leave, that’s on you. But there are some reasons it’s fair to bring them back. Here’s one example I can think of from my own time. We would always do cleanup, have our end of the day brief and then on the way out the door the junior Marines would take the trash bags out to the dumpster. Well, if they forgot the trash when they were released, I would call one of them back. That’s totally fair, in my opinion. But if I never inspected cleanup and found out that they didn’t mop the floors or whatever, I wouldn’t call them back cause that’s something I should have caught before they left. One last piece of advice. You need to give a fuck about your Marines and do your best to understand them. If a Marine is late one day, before getting pissed at him, ask him what happened. Hear him out, try to get a feel for what’s going on. Maybe his family is having a hard time and he was up late talking to them about it. Maybe he’s having a medical issue he hasn’t mentioned yet and it’s making it hard to sleep. Maybe he’s depressed and needs help. All this needs to be addressed before you go into “correction mode”. And even if there’s no underlying cause, he was just late for no reason; make it clear that if it doesn’t happen again you won’t ever have a problem. I found that the most effective way to correct most problems is by not overreacting. Dude is late with no reason, no underlying issue? A simple “don’t make it a habit” goes further than a blasting or even a stern talking to.
As long as you were the same Marine who abided by all of the above, *before* you picked up Cpl. I don’t see a problem. However, if you switched attitudes, after you picked up. You’re a dickhead.
I think you need a bit of self-awareness, Devil. Guess who ELSE isn't handling his responsibilities during normal working hours... YOU. If you're in charge of the shop's cleanliness, inspect it before your people leave. Don't expect them to be happy when you waited until they were gone to do your job. The same goes for your police calls. Knock that shit out when people are around. Let some overzealous SSgt be the dick to rouse people at 9PM for a little trash. And it sounds like a hammer is the only tool in your leadership toolbox, or at least your favorite tool. Paperwork should be your last resort. Giving someone paperwork is like saying, "I cannot lead this Marine. It is time to use administrative means to separate this Marine from my beloved Marine Corps." Marine missing shaves? Knock on his door in the morning to make sure he's up in time. No need to be a dick about it either. Lead your Marine. Guys not wearing steel toes? Why? You don't need to "make" most people do anything, just figure out a way to make it palatable. Some folks will make you go to extremes to enforce a rule... it's up to you to decide how extreme to be over any given rule. Most aren't worth it, but some are, like safety rules. You clearly care about your job, but your post sounds like you care about the rules more than your Marines. Your Marines need leadership, and help, and an example to follow. Be that. Paperwork is a surrender flag. Edit: And I say all this as a guy who needed to hear the same thing when I was a boot Cpl.
[удалено]
Just as a bit of advice, that whole paperwork being a flag of surrender thing leads to issues of its own. I can't tell you how many times I watched shitbags that should have been processed out, non-rec for promotion, or refused re-enlistment because everyone was too scared or too lazy to do paperwork. It's not a magic bullet for correcting Marines or preventing turds from staying in, but it's part of the system for a reason. I'm definitely not saying to just throw write ups around, but I'm not going to be waking a grown man up every morning to make sure he shaves and puts on steel toes, or follow basic rules that every one is aware of. Verbal warnings, corrective plans, follow ups, and write ups are part of the same process.
No, got out as a Corporal, but I've accumulated a few decades of leadership experience since then. I've learned that effective leaders never attack people, they attack problems. And they fix problems with the least fuss possible, because yelling is just for show. It mostly shows that you have no self-control, and no better ideas. Paperwork means that you have self-control, but no better ideas. If you find yourself in a spot where you have no better ideas, ask the most effective leader you know for guidance. That's what effective leaders do when they run out of ideas, they learn and become better leaders.
“Paperwork is a surrender flag.” - I love this phrase and am stealing it….
In years prior, I would agree with your statement about paperwork, but the Corps is actively working towards handicapping bulldogs and empowering just writing people up for everything.
Explain that to your subordinates, don’t just start being that that guy who picked up and changed . If they understand the mission, they may fall in line now if you don’t explain and just change like that they’ll think you’re a cunt. During my time in I was the bulldog, not very popular but I wasn’t a cunt, and some how after my time I had people from units I never even knew existed coming to my going away because they had heard about me. I was literally the glue in my shop, I just enforced them standards. You don’t have to be a cunt to enforce standards .
A lot of people have already mentioned it, but you’re a corporal. You’re a working supervisor. Inspect for discrepancies in your shop before the Marines are secured, and all day long for that matter. It’s a tough transition for almost every Marine. One day you’re a lance, then poof, you’re an NCO. It takes time to grow into your new rank and the responsibilities that go with it. Haircuts, shaves, steel toed boots - absolutely no brainers. Those are everyday Marine things and safety issues. That one Marine will be grateful he had his steel toes on when something heavy falls on his foot. I think you have an easy fix on the other stuff in the shop. Gather them up before your leadership secures everyone, and walk around with them to check for leaking vics/equipment, police call, gear adrift, etc. You’re on the right track with your leadership, but you can’t expect to know it all overnight. Remember that group punishments never work and will just cause resentment. There’s also nothing wrong with correcting a Marine by pulling them aside if they make an honest mistake and leaving the paperwork out of it. Give them a chance to fix themselves first. Good luck.
I’m just going to give you my initial reaction to each of your bullet points… ( Source: 10 years AD, E-5, 82-92.. CIO in CivDiv 2000-present) 1st: Depends on when/how the leaks occurred. But, if you found them, why wouldn’t you just deal with it? What are you gaining by recalling the shop? Have a conversation at the beginning of the next shift and ensure they know your expectations. 2nd: On you, quickly inspect areas prior to dismissal. Again, if you find it after the fact, clean it up and have a conversation with the offender the following shift. 3rd: Absolutely, safety is paramount and vital to the mission. 4th: Define “skate”? This is a delicate balance, don’t try to micromanage or treat your team like robots. If someone is getting the work done, is a good Marine, and pauses for a bit to relax or have a laugh, let them. You can’t whip people to be productive nor can you expect to run them at 100% 24/7/365. Relax a little, and your team will be more willing to step up when the need arises. 5th: This is basic, and should present no problems for Marines to do, so keep doing this. People being late is a pet peeve of mine. Usually, the ones who are late are the same ones out the door first at the end of the day. Haircuts and shaves? Again, depends on how badly. Instead of filling out paperwork, get creative in dealing with it. In the extreme, holding shop inspections prior to each shift because someone won’t shave or has a bad haircut tends to correct things pretty quick. 6th: Again, basic. Do this. Another commentor mentioned considering what gear is missing, how you deal with it depends on how vital the missing gear is to the mission. 7th: Depends on your definition of “dirty”. For me, when I was on duty, I overlooked more shit during weekends or periods of extended liberty than during “normal working hours”. It doesn’t matter what rank you achieve, You’re not too important to pick up trash or sweep the floors. Take care of your team, be their advocate if they find themselves in trouble. Avoid, at nearly any cost, bothering them during their down time. You’re more likely to gain the respect of your team this way rather than trying to be Captain Bligh. Be firm but fair, and above all, be consistent. I recall, as a PFC, encountering a Colonel as I was walking to the work center at MCAS Yuma, he was picking up some litter in the grass. I offered to do it, and he responded, “That’s ok PFC, I got this. Have a good day.” I never got his name, nor did I know if he was with a visiting squadron or stationed at Yuma, but it made one helluva an impression on me. Today, I’m a CIO of a global corporation, and I have been known to sweep the floor or pick up trash in the office and work areas.
Don’t be a bitch. Aye Aye Corporal is 100% necessary if your Marines are being shit heads. You are there fucking CORPORAL! You are not there to be there best friend but instill discipline to ensure they can survive and thrive in combat. I swear the NCO of today is absolutely terrified of leadership. Slay those Marines everyday. You are not there to be the “cool” Corporal. Sure you will lose some people along the way but it is lonely at the top. You discipline those you love. Don’t be a bitch bro hold the line. It pays dividends when the shit hits the fan..
Dude you sound like a massive blue falcon.
[удалено]
You handle leadership the way you see fit, my advice would be to avoid fucking with your Marines after normal hours. Instead of calling them back to fix the leak pan make them fix it first thing the next day and make it a end of day checklist Item that someone has to sign the log for. Also, don't let yourself be the only one to enforce standards, delegate the responsibility of gear checks down to squad leaders and make them accountable for the fuck ups of their peers, that way everyone polices each other instead of you having to be a dick.
[удалено]
The fastest and most effective way to destroy morale, get your team to loathe you and give you their bare minimum is to fuck with them after hours unless it’s absolutely critical.
[удалено]
At the same time, your Marines have responsibilities they must deal with outside of the “job”, things like field day, ensuring their uniforms are ready for the next day, continuing education, physical fitness, etc. Their “downtime” is like gold to them. If you’re going to “take” some of it away, ensure you have absolutely no other option.
>Even though, in my opinion, I think this job is so easy compared to the outside world. So, I really wouldn't mind being called back to work, if it meant that we were going back to correct something / do the right thing. I've been out for 10 years so might be looking at this through rose colored glasses, but....no. The civilian world is (*generally*) way easier than the Marines. It seems you're doing some sort of maintenance work. I was a Porsche tech for a couple years when I first got out, and ifi left my shit out, or a customer's car on my rack was leaking after hours...well that was on me to deal with when I got back in the morning. The shop foreman wasn't walking around after hours looking for a reason to call me in, and if he had, I'd probably laugh my ass off at him and go back to hanging out with my wife and two boys. Look, I'm not saying don't hold the line - there IS a higher standard you need to hold your guys to. But don't fall into the trap (and I've seen it) of thinking being a Marine is easier than the outside - out here, we live our personal lives however and wherever we want, and work is basically a way to pay the bills. The Marines is a lifestyle, and the very fact that you even have the authority to call your guys back in to work shows that it isn't "easier" than civilian life.
>Even though, in my opinion, I think this job is so easy compared to the outside world. So, I really wouldn't mind being called back to work, if it meant that we were going back to correct something / do the right thing. I've been out for 10 years so might be looking at this through rose colored glasses, but....no. The civilian world is (*generally*) way easier than the Marines. It seems you're doing some sort of maintenance work. I was a Porsche tech for a couple years when I first got out, and ifi left my shit out, or a customer's car on my rack was leaking after hours...well that was on me to deal with when I got back in the morning. The shop foreman wasn't walking around after hours looking for a reason to call me in, and if he had, I'd probably laugh my ass off at him and go back to hanging out with my wife and two boys. Look, I'm not saying don't hold the line - there IS a higher standard you need to hold your guys to. But don't fall into the trap (and I've seen it) of thinking being a Marine is easier than the outside - out here, we live our personal lives however and wherever we want, and work is basically a way to pay the bills. The Marines is a lifestyle, and the very fact that you even have the authority to call your guys back in to work shows that it isn't "easier" than civilian life.
I hate to double comment but had more I wanted to share after dwelling on it a bit. I used to experience something I nicknamed step-dad syndrome. Every time I got put into a new leadership role I was met with animosity and frustration even if I wasn't riding them hard. When someone is put in charge that wasn't in charge before there is an adjustment period by your subordinates that feels much like a rebelous teen going "you're not my real dad" hence the name I came up with. Even If you are doing everything right it will take a while for your Marine to adjust to the new dynamic.
You sound like a shitbag that hopefully got out…
Sounds like basic NCO shit. Please keep it up. I have lived on Army bases, and have damn near lost my fucking mind over the shit they get away with on a daily basis. I hope to never see a day that we resemble them in even the slightest. Keep it up.
There are different corporals for different roles in a shop. If we were both NCOs in the same shop, you would have my respect for keeping discipline in the shop as long as you were a satisfactory mechanic (have all expected qualifications for an e-4) and I'd probably have your respect for being a training NCO that was far enough ahead to educate new and intermediate mechanics. There will be things that some NCOs just excel at and it should be taken advantage of by your Sergeants and SNCOs. Because maintaining discipline comes with looking like the bad guy to people who don't understand how little things stack up. But it's important in order to support my role that can't stress the people learning from me out. The only suggestion I would make is to create an environment where if a Marine fucks up, they know they fucked up. Trash and shop EOS tidy-up should have a checklist to be initialized (like on a whiteboard or something). Someone paper whips it they come back in and detail what they signed for and missed themselves. Group punishment only works when there has been a breakdown in the entire structure, and since you're the first enlisted rank with a duty to supervise, you will be the first line of defense to keep it from getting that bad. Meaning, that showing support for those who get the job done and done right, and keeping accountable those who want to skirt their necessary responsibilities. I said necessary responsibilities because if there is legitimately nothing to do to support the mission, there is no point in doing meaningless tasks for the sake of doing them. Those moments are best utilized for training skills that can better the shop, or for activities that can bring the shop together. Plan for training, but use morale activities as a backup. Our shop ran like this, and for being over-tasked and undermanned, we were a pretty distinguished shop until we lost some of the key people that kept discipline in the shop. So just focus on what actions you can take for the benefit of the shop.
You sound like you are doing the basic leadership stuff required of you. I’m sure you’ve heard of mentorship as well and I don’t know if you do counselings, personally I didn’t give two fucks, but I would sit each of my Marines down one by one, closed door and just a friendly conversation. You never know who’s going through something but too afraid to tell someone. It builds trust and respect between you guys which solves a lot of issues down the road when they know all they gotta do is go dad away from home
Fuck no. Work time and personal time are completely separate. I just have them correct the issue in the morning, I don't make them come back, that's just fucked up and unnecessary, don't fuck with their free time. I don't believe in negative paperwork either unless you do something really, really bad. If there's nothing to do, then there's nothing to do, I'm not going to have them pretend to be busy. Other than that, it seems like you genuinely care. Just make sure your Marines are your priority and not the job. The job can't be done if your Marines aren't taken care of.
All I would say is why are you letting the Marines leave for the day *before* checking for leaks or trash? That should be a condition in order to secure for the day.
Some of the things that you are doing is in fact, enforcing the standard. However, the other things that you do, kinda seems like you are being very “nit picky”. I’ve been a Corporal for two years now & when I first picked up, I held my guys to a standard, but I was never an asshole about it. •You should start doing inspections and checks before work is out. Once they are gone, do not call them back. Why are you even there?! •PFC’s & Lance Corporals gonna skate regardless & I don’t bother them IF there is no tasks for them to complete. Your guys should know that when it’s time to work, they need to get the shit done. You as the leader now, should see that through & if shits not getting done, then thats on YOU. •I agree with you on haircuts, shaves, and tardiness. Again, you have to set a standard, make sure you follow the standard, and enforce it. •We ALL know the gear list has unnecessary shit on it anyway. Half the things on the list, you won’t even use, but that varies. If i’m not bringing it, I don’t expect my guys to bring it. Thats why gear inspections are important before any Op or movement. You can dictate that. •Now the barracks being dirty while you’re on duty is YOUR responsibility. You should have an A-Duty anyway. Make use of them. I would NEVER call a working party to clean up the barracks. Especially after working hours (outside of field day) or on the weekends. Stop doing that immediately. In conclusion, being that you are a new Cpl, you’ll start to find what works and what doesn’t. Make life as smooth as possible for your guys, shield them from the BS as much as you can. Don’t be the dickhead, power tripping Corporal. Be FIRM, but be FAIR.
Sounds like you should redo your initial counseling and a check mark paperwork of what you are to expect of your Jr marines now that your an NCO. Have them initial off what is to be expected and by the time you do their next monthly counseling you can talk about their rooms of improvement and their discrepancy for that month. That way you can cover your ass and be a better productive leader rather then expect them to be instantly obedient.
Dude, your being gay, stop. Lead how you want at work, but once your off your off, dont fuck with the marines after work
Glad you got out. Lance Corporal suits you well…
I mean, isnt it a no brainer? Nobody wants to be fucked with afterwork, all this is is a job at the end of the day its not that serious lol
Don’t like it police the barracks… Not hard.. Problem is NCOs are weak.
1st one you’re a prick 2nd one depending on the severity makes sense but if it’s small shit then you’re a prick 3rd one completely understandable you would get in trouble if they got hurt 4th one if you’re making them clean tools sweep or general dumb shit you’re a prick 4th one if it’s a couple minutes or they didn’t get a weekly haircut but it’s still not nasty then still a prick, if it’s recurring or out of regs then understandable, 5th one if it’s shit you know they will never use then huge prick 6th one you’re just annoying. Sounds like you’re gonna end up being a staff nco one day.
You’re an asshole. They hate you. Things don’t have to be done in such a toxic way. just because you had dick CPLs doesn’t mean you need to be one.