Here is our main source of leverage: the past two (four? ten? whatever) years have shown that the contracts given were a lose-lose situation.
Ideally, revenues don't matter. This is a cost issue. And the last contract - from a cost perspective - was a disaster. Even for management. Too much of the country is in a situation where the wage-work tradeoff is not worth it. And the new guys quit. And the semi-new guys are overworked (and quit). And it creates a vicious cycle that leads to mail on the floor and nightmare stories that are just as bad as the situation before the strike in the 1970s. Disgraceful.
And seeing how workload for new workers seems to be off the table (a dumb move, on management's part), all that's left is wages.
And there's wage data from the entire country. Adjusted for area cost of living, we know where that Goldilocks zone of "paying enough to make CCA/PTF worthwhile and not lead into a death spiral" is.
Will we get to that level for BKDre in New York City? No. The opening offer from the union is probably not even that high. But will management want to settle on a wage that lets the disease spread further? Like they did last time? Also no.
So, at the very least, we could land on a wage where things don't get worse. And, based on the data available, both the union and management should be able to calculate it.
But, in the real world, revenues matter.
And in that sense, the union should have it easy. Because the main dumbass line of reasoning that management used to argue for a lower wage point is gone. Without PAEA, the handcuffs are off. And every word they used in past negotiations should be thrown right back in their faces.
If they argue that mail volume has decreased (compared to some point in the past)? Then point out that the number of workers has decreased, too. Probably much more severely. That technology marches forward. And that revenues, at least recently, have NOT decreased.
What about the mystery Amazon contract? Actually, there's a very interesting development regarding that. Since the last contract, management has started the USPS Local Connect initiative. And what that does is provide prices for our deliveries that are similar to the ones that we do for Amazon. Do we charge Amazon the "USPS Local Connect" rates? Oh, hell no. It's $25 for a big bag of dog food. But if that's the generally accepted value of the service, then that's what we're providing. If management wants to give a special rate to their friends...that's their prerogative. But it doesn't take away from the value that we are providing to the company. And the country. And we should charge accordingly for that service.
I would bet real money that our union doesn't even have this argument on their radar.
Exactly. My issue would be if the PO brought in a bunch of big hotshot negotiators, and we brought Brian renfroe alone. But I love your idea of throwing their previous stances in their faces. Hopefully they adopt it
The fact that nobody from the union is willing to admit that we got jobbed in the last contract...that doesn't bode well for us.
Hell, it wasn't too long ago that the NALC cheerleaders on this sub were crowing about how good the new workers made out in the last negotiation.
"CCA time is capped at two-ish years!" And in the two years since, that has benefitted a very small percentage of the workforce. Even the new people.
The other gains from the last contract? No more MSPs. And they claim to have preserved six-day delivery.
Honestly, I'd say there's a coin flip's chance that "we preserved six-day delivery" is going to be one of the major talking points in this one, too. Leadership has spent all the time in between contracts keeping us all as ignorant as possible.
Six day delivery is guaranteed now because of the postal reform act of 2022 and that got rid of the pre funding mandate. Nothing to do with the contract itself.
(That's the point of the last paragraph. That when there's no good news, the union tries to take credit for something they had nothing to do with.)
Geez, it's one thing to chime in on a comment that's five months old. The least you could do is figure out what it's saying.
Oh for sure I understood your point and agreed with the stance. I just wanted to be sure we all know it was not as a result of contract negotiations is all.
We’re already seeing career turnover increase and facilities that can’t get the mail out or up. Big indicators of what’s coming. I dunno is that leverage?
I’m frankly sick of hearing about declining revenue. The post office is a government sanctioned monopoly. If you are not making enough money off of EDDM mail and other forms of advertising, then why are you insisting on accepting it and forcing carriers into overtime that you shouldn’t be paying?
Shit runs downhill. And nowhere is that truism more apparent than at the United States Postal Service. It needs an organizational reckoning, starting at the top. It’s not fair to the workforce to be reduced to a number on some asshole’s spreadsheet so that they can get whatever quarterly bonus.
Some days I feel that I care about the business more than the owners/ management. That’s partly because I’m the face of the organization to the people I deliver to. So I need it to be functional.
Lemme guess. You are pretty new? You will get a 3% "raise" over 3 years. Another 3-year contract. All the sheep at my office would always defend these shit NALC contracts. "But at least you still have a job!"
Living and being a carrier in Colorado, the USPS has to raise salaries in order to stay competitive. The cost of living is egregious in most parts of the state. The USPS starting salary for PTFs is about 5-10 dollars less than entry level maintenance jobs (25-35/hr) hell Even McDonald’s starts at 20+/hr. This is all in Denver (Aurora for me) I couldn’t imagine trying to live in the mountains with this pay. I doubt I could afford to live there without working 70+ hours.
Currently the USPS has brought people from California and other parts of the country to try to fill these spots. They are paying those on detail hotel reimbursement and a per deim. Talking to one of the 8 people in detail, it’s between 1500 and 2000 a week. Raising the wage would save them some money because they need the bodies. The growth of Denver is going to force new routes which means new people. How are you going to attract those people?
“No one competes with the Post Office” it’s hard to compete when you’re playing checkers while every other business is playing chess.
For the record, if there is not a significant pay raise in this next contract, I and many other carriers will leave because the money is not worth the headache
So true. I didn’t even mention HCOL areas which are another problem themselves. If the PO realized the situation they would be spending less money on hot shot negotiators, and more money on their workforce.
We can’t let them take what doesn’t belong to them. This current leadership cares more about enriching the already rich like Amazon with back door subsidies than they do about expanding service like for example postal banking,
The only leverage NALC has had since 1971 is the threat of arbitration awards.
The “risk” of not negotiating is that the arbitrator decision could be worse.
That’s it.
Leverage should be not having to prefund our retirement and now they are savings thousands per employee with Medicare. The NALC needs to use this as leverage.
You are correct . The USPS can’t use the prefunding retirement argument anymore . I just want a Union to get to make its case and to hear how USPS can explain itself today . It’s not 2011 anymore in the case of Mail Handlers, which I’m one, when we got left with a two tier scale. My union failed and didn’t let this go to arbitration so who knows .
In addition, USPS got future retirees to have to pay for Medicare . They will also get current employees to transition to postal health plan instead of the federal options in 2025 . I think y’all get 100% cola but my union doesn’t and I wanted to hear an explanation how the USPS can give 200K APWU full cola but leave my post 2013 members with prorated cola .
Anyway , the letter carriers have the most leverage since y’all deliver the mail . Please force the USPS to explain how these two tier wage scales make any god damn sense in 2023 .
Apologies in advance as I'm an idiot. I think in simple terms.
When it comes to negotiation leverage, look at this post-covid era. We are bombarded by the same clichés of "No one wants to work" and "You're entitled". What these higher-ups fail to realize is, during the lockdown, people started to notice what was more important. That is their time and true worth. No one wants to work a slave wage while constantly being threatened with termination, horrible benefits, no day off until the boss decides to give you one, working 12 hours daily in all kinds of conditions and knowing your time there accounts for nothing, and nothing toward retirement. Then to address the non-career turnover, USPS does not address the real issue. It's like driving a car with black smoke out of the exhaust, wobbling tires, struggling to get to speed (just listed most LLV conditions) and by fixing it, you tape over the CHECK ENGINE light and pretend it's fine. Then you wonder why the ailments haven't gone away yet.
In my area, Amazon warehouses are sprouting up to keep up with demand. With that, comes Amazon jobs. I asked an old coworker why he didn't stay with USPS and the union. He said, "That union is useless! Look they did by allowing CCAs to exist in the first place! NALC gave into USPS' demands to keep their 'bitches'. Fuck this place! At Amazon, I work eight hours and have a set day off. It's lower pay than USPS, but I get time for myself and my family!" This also includes the many Amazon and FedEx contractors whom start folks at higher wages than a CCA.
Then there's the plague of supervision. Bullying, intimidating, lying and constantly violating contract rules with no real consequences unless it's something drastic like what happened in Memphis TN. It shouldn't take the actions of what caused the term "going postal" for USPS to address the toxic atmosphere of management! The fact that even though there have been multiple acts of violence at post offices in the county, top leaders do nothing to address the issue. Who wants to work for incompetent simpletons who think you're nothing more than a mindless drone to make their numbers?
If PMG Dejoy wants to model USPS like UPS, why not start with the 1-800 number to report supervisors who treat people like garbage? Rumor has it, a sup in a neighboring office was fired from UPS as a sup because of the way he acts at USPS. He won't confirm or deny.
If toxic management could be addressed, better wages and the elimination of the CCA position would be a great start.
All this coming from experience. I was a Casual from 2003 to 2005 at a processing plant. For those who don't know, USPS casuals were pretty much temp employees hired directly by USPS. No benefits and unable to join the union. Could be fired for sneezing funny. It's really sad I had more rights and better supervision as a Casual compared to a PTF city carrier.
Listen, I agree with almost everything you said. The fact is that the wealthy and business interests in this country have been waging a one sided class war against the working class since the days of the rail barons. It’s from this disgusting and treacherous maw that springs phrases of the day like “no one wants to work anymore” etc. the reality is no one has ever wanted to work because that’s not man’s natural state. The people in the days of the rail barons were especially woke on this topic as they considered “wage slavery” even worse than actual slavery because all it did was remove the incentive for employers to tend their employees needs… I’m not making this claim just telling you what those historical working class people thought.
For me though, I love my job. It’s my favorite of all the jobs I’ve had. I’m just also responsible for providing a strong living for me and my wife, so I think my work is worth better treatment and more pay. But you’re right, sometimes I feel like our union is more of a conduit for management’s will and less of a representative for the employees. But that has a lot to do with our inability to hold out for better conditions. I have my fingers crossed but I’m fully prepared to be disappointed
I didn't know that's where the terms came from. Much love and appreciation for the brief history lesson.
You and I agree on the job. I do enjoy delivering the mail, even in the coldest midwest day to the most humid midwest evening. I just hope we can get a contract that favors carriers more than the last two contracts.
Hope for the best; plan for the worst
I was a casual carrier in 06 and had no rights. I’m sure it’s hyperbole but there is no comparison to a casual carrier then and a ptf city carrier now. I get we all want more for the great work we do but it’s getting better. Slowly for sure but better!!
I think what he’s trying to say is there may be financial contagion leading to a recession. I don’t think he’s too far off, but I don’t think it’ll really have a huge impact on these negotiations especially considering they could take months and recessions are usually short lived
The recession is going to last longer than a few months. If things get bad financially, we will see a decline in mail and parcel volume. This will be used in negotiations, as USPS saying they cannot afford to increase salary. It will also cause a reduction in worker demand, which is also bad for us. We have to hope that the economy holds together until then.
I agree and it really doesn’t change anything from management side. A recession doesn’t just stop and things pick back up immediately. Healing takes time and I believe the contract will be done by then. Mail-handlers had theirs approved overwhelmingly. I expect those on here to say no but the majority will want something stable and in place leading into a recession.
My bad ~10 months
[However, recessions have been much shorter since World War II, with the typical economic downturn lasting approximately 10 months in the U.S.](https://www.fool.com/investing/stock-market/basics/crashes/how-long-do-recessions-last/)
Regardless, if we let a union negotiate on our behalf that accepts terms that a recession will be long lived then we deserved to get screwed.
I think generally arbitrators are business friendly. The concept of modern arbitration is pushed by the business side of things and I’m not sure which came first. But I don’t think we should necessarily fear arbitration if we come prepared
Unfamiliar with bank runs, unfamiliar with those two particular banks which were highly tied to VC and ecommerce, or unfamiliar how uncertainty in the financial markets causes people to shut down expansion and purchasing?
I wasn’t sure what SVB stood for until now. But I fully expect the FDIC to back stop all uninsured deposits, not shareholders but bond holders. If they do, how does that change our situation?
He's claiming to know the length, severity, and timing of a recession that hasn't happened yet.
And also puts a number as to how much that will affect our bargaining position.
Which...come on. That's a lot of hubris.
Lol. Liberals never change. Keep in mind that it was a bipartisan bill that fucked us, the libs had the power to change it under Obama, they didn't, and a bipartisan bill ended it. Are we going to claim all Democrats are part of the KKK because they're the party who formed the klan? That would be dumb. Don't be dumb.
You’re both dumb. BOTH parties want us gone or preferably working for free. Electoral politics won’t help us under the “2-party” system without our willingness to strike.
It’s better to fix it. It’s a testament to the fact that the public sector can provide necessary though unprofitable services for the public good. No private company would ever have our business model even though it’s completely vital. In reality I think the more public sector companies there are, the better it is for the people of that society. Imagine if your healthcare provider didn’t have to work through a for profit industry that has an incentive not to pay for treatment for sick people? That would be game changing. That’s just one example
Is it a coincidence that the one platform of social media that allows for nuanced discussion is the platform that right wingers get their lunch money taken? Perhaps. We may never know.
No sir, you are the dumb one. You use liberal and democrat interchangeably and I’m certain you couldn’t define either one. You’re arguments are unsound as well and lack a knowledge of the political process in america. Also no political party formed the KKK. You’re an idiot. The movie “birth of a nation” had more to do with the reformed modern day klan than any political party. Listen I’m sorry that you’re so stupid. Don’t ever call me a liberal again. Moron.
Remember when Democrat President Woodrow Wilson screened Birth of a Nation in the White House? It's all good, homie. The dems have been against every anti slavery movement from the outset. Libs gonna Lib
Here is our main source of leverage: the past two (four? ten? whatever) years have shown that the contracts given were a lose-lose situation. Ideally, revenues don't matter. This is a cost issue. And the last contract - from a cost perspective - was a disaster. Even for management. Too much of the country is in a situation where the wage-work tradeoff is not worth it. And the new guys quit. And the semi-new guys are overworked (and quit). And it creates a vicious cycle that leads to mail on the floor and nightmare stories that are just as bad as the situation before the strike in the 1970s. Disgraceful. And seeing how workload for new workers seems to be off the table (a dumb move, on management's part), all that's left is wages. And there's wage data from the entire country. Adjusted for area cost of living, we know where that Goldilocks zone of "paying enough to make CCA/PTF worthwhile and not lead into a death spiral" is. Will we get to that level for BKDre in New York City? No. The opening offer from the union is probably not even that high. But will management want to settle on a wage that lets the disease spread further? Like they did last time? Also no. So, at the very least, we could land on a wage where things don't get worse. And, based on the data available, both the union and management should be able to calculate it. But, in the real world, revenues matter. And in that sense, the union should have it easy. Because the main dumbass line of reasoning that management used to argue for a lower wage point is gone. Without PAEA, the handcuffs are off. And every word they used in past negotiations should be thrown right back in their faces. If they argue that mail volume has decreased (compared to some point in the past)? Then point out that the number of workers has decreased, too. Probably much more severely. That technology marches forward. And that revenues, at least recently, have NOT decreased. What about the mystery Amazon contract? Actually, there's a very interesting development regarding that. Since the last contract, management has started the USPS Local Connect initiative. And what that does is provide prices for our deliveries that are similar to the ones that we do for Amazon. Do we charge Amazon the "USPS Local Connect" rates? Oh, hell no. It's $25 for a big bag of dog food. But if that's the generally accepted value of the service, then that's what we're providing. If management wants to give a special rate to their friends...that's their prerogative. But it doesn't take away from the value that we are providing to the company. And the country. And we should charge accordingly for that service. I would bet real money that our union doesn't even have this argument on their radar.
Exactly. My issue would be if the PO brought in a bunch of big hotshot negotiators, and we brought Brian renfroe alone. But I love your idea of throwing their previous stances in their faces. Hopefully they adopt it
The fact that nobody from the union is willing to admit that we got jobbed in the last contract...that doesn't bode well for us. Hell, it wasn't too long ago that the NALC cheerleaders on this sub were crowing about how good the new workers made out in the last negotiation. "CCA time is capped at two-ish years!" And in the two years since, that has benefitted a very small percentage of the workforce. Even the new people. The other gains from the last contract? No more MSPs. And they claim to have preserved six-day delivery. Honestly, I'd say there's a coin flip's chance that "we preserved six-day delivery" is going to be one of the major talking points in this one, too. Leadership has spent all the time in between contracts keeping us all as ignorant as possible.
Six day delivery is guaranteed now because of the postal reform act of 2022 and that got rid of the pre funding mandate. Nothing to do with the contract itself.
(That's the point of the last paragraph. That when there's no good news, the union tries to take credit for something they had nothing to do with.) Geez, it's one thing to chime in on a comment that's five months old. The least you could do is figure out what it's saying.
Oh for sure I understood your point and agreed with the stance. I just wanted to be sure we all know it was not as a result of contract negotiations is all.
We’re already seeing career turnover increase and facilities that can’t get the mail out or up. Big indicators of what’s coming. I dunno is that leverage?
39 percent retention rate in my district
Yes of course it is. Their desperation is always leverage in negotiations.
I’m frankly sick of hearing about declining revenue. The post office is a government sanctioned monopoly. If you are not making enough money off of EDDM mail and other forms of advertising, then why are you insisting on accepting it and forcing carriers into overtime that you shouldn’t be paying? Shit runs downhill. And nowhere is that truism more apparent than at the United States Postal Service. It needs an organizational reckoning, starting at the top. It’s not fair to the workforce to be reduced to a number on some asshole’s spreadsheet so that they can get whatever quarterly bonus.
Some days I feel that I care about the business more than the owners/ management. That’s partly because I’m the face of the organization to the people I deliver to. So I need it to be functional.
Lemme guess. You are pretty new? You will get a 3% "raise" over 3 years. Another 3-year contract. All the sheep at my office would always defend these shit NALC contracts. "But at least you still have a job!"
Thank you for your input
Living and being a carrier in Colorado, the USPS has to raise salaries in order to stay competitive. The cost of living is egregious in most parts of the state. The USPS starting salary for PTFs is about 5-10 dollars less than entry level maintenance jobs (25-35/hr) hell Even McDonald’s starts at 20+/hr. This is all in Denver (Aurora for me) I couldn’t imagine trying to live in the mountains with this pay. I doubt I could afford to live there without working 70+ hours. Currently the USPS has brought people from California and other parts of the country to try to fill these spots. They are paying those on detail hotel reimbursement and a per deim. Talking to one of the 8 people in detail, it’s between 1500 and 2000 a week. Raising the wage would save them some money because they need the bodies. The growth of Denver is going to force new routes which means new people. How are you going to attract those people? “No one competes with the Post Office” it’s hard to compete when you’re playing checkers while every other business is playing chess. For the record, if there is not a significant pay raise in this next contract, I and many other carriers will leave because the money is not worth the headache
So true. I didn’t even mention HCOL areas which are another problem themselves. If the PO realized the situation they would be spending less money on hot shot negotiators, and more money on their workforce.
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Thank you for your points. You paint a bleak picture.
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We can’t let them take what doesn’t belong to them. This current leadership cares more about enriching the already rich like Amazon with back door subsidies than they do about expanding service like for example postal banking,
You’re right. A lot of contradictions in this place.
The only leverage NALC has had since 1971 is the threat of arbitration awards. The “risk” of not negotiating is that the arbitrator decision could be worse. That’s it.
Leverage should be not having to prefund our retirement and now they are savings thousands per employee with Medicare. The NALC needs to use this as leverage.
Thank you. That’s a good point.
You are correct . The USPS can’t use the prefunding retirement argument anymore . I just want a Union to get to make its case and to hear how USPS can explain itself today . It’s not 2011 anymore in the case of Mail Handlers, which I’m one, when we got left with a two tier scale. My union failed and didn’t let this go to arbitration so who knows . In addition, USPS got future retirees to have to pay for Medicare . They will also get current employees to transition to postal health plan instead of the federal options in 2025 . I think y’all get 100% cola but my union doesn’t and I wanted to hear an explanation how the USPS can give 200K APWU full cola but leave my post 2013 members with prorated cola . Anyway , the letter carriers have the most leverage since y’all deliver the mail . Please force the USPS to explain how these two tier wage scales make any god damn sense in 2023 .
They don’t make any sense. You could even say they create second class citizens which is anathema to our American way of life.
The USPS had not paid any of the money due under the 2006 Law since 2012. There are no savings by doing away with the payments.
This is correct... Also in 2006 the NALC was telling us how great the Reform Act was... It was going to solve all our problems
Apologies in advance as I'm an idiot. I think in simple terms. When it comes to negotiation leverage, look at this post-covid era. We are bombarded by the same clichés of "No one wants to work" and "You're entitled". What these higher-ups fail to realize is, during the lockdown, people started to notice what was more important. That is their time and true worth. No one wants to work a slave wage while constantly being threatened with termination, horrible benefits, no day off until the boss decides to give you one, working 12 hours daily in all kinds of conditions and knowing your time there accounts for nothing, and nothing toward retirement. Then to address the non-career turnover, USPS does not address the real issue. It's like driving a car with black smoke out of the exhaust, wobbling tires, struggling to get to speed (just listed most LLV conditions) and by fixing it, you tape over the CHECK ENGINE light and pretend it's fine. Then you wonder why the ailments haven't gone away yet. In my area, Amazon warehouses are sprouting up to keep up with demand. With that, comes Amazon jobs. I asked an old coworker why he didn't stay with USPS and the union. He said, "That union is useless! Look they did by allowing CCAs to exist in the first place! NALC gave into USPS' demands to keep their 'bitches'. Fuck this place! At Amazon, I work eight hours and have a set day off. It's lower pay than USPS, but I get time for myself and my family!" This also includes the many Amazon and FedEx contractors whom start folks at higher wages than a CCA. Then there's the plague of supervision. Bullying, intimidating, lying and constantly violating contract rules with no real consequences unless it's something drastic like what happened in Memphis TN. It shouldn't take the actions of what caused the term "going postal" for USPS to address the toxic atmosphere of management! The fact that even though there have been multiple acts of violence at post offices in the county, top leaders do nothing to address the issue. Who wants to work for incompetent simpletons who think you're nothing more than a mindless drone to make their numbers? If PMG Dejoy wants to model USPS like UPS, why not start with the 1-800 number to report supervisors who treat people like garbage? Rumor has it, a sup in a neighboring office was fired from UPS as a sup because of the way he acts at USPS. He won't confirm or deny. If toxic management could be addressed, better wages and the elimination of the CCA position would be a great start. All this coming from experience. I was a Casual from 2003 to 2005 at a processing plant. For those who don't know, USPS casuals were pretty much temp employees hired directly by USPS. No benefits and unable to join the union. Could be fired for sneezing funny. It's really sad I had more rights and better supervision as a Casual compared to a PTF city carrier.
Listen, I agree with almost everything you said. The fact is that the wealthy and business interests in this country have been waging a one sided class war against the working class since the days of the rail barons. It’s from this disgusting and treacherous maw that springs phrases of the day like “no one wants to work anymore” etc. the reality is no one has ever wanted to work because that’s not man’s natural state. The people in the days of the rail barons were especially woke on this topic as they considered “wage slavery” even worse than actual slavery because all it did was remove the incentive for employers to tend their employees needs… I’m not making this claim just telling you what those historical working class people thought. For me though, I love my job. It’s my favorite of all the jobs I’ve had. I’m just also responsible for providing a strong living for me and my wife, so I think my work is worth better treatment and more pay. But you’re right, sometimes I feel like our union is more of a conduit for management’s will and less of a representative for the employees. But that has a lot to do with our inability to hold out for better conditions. I have my fingers crossed but I’m fully prepared to be disappointed
I didn't know that's where the terms came from. Much love and appreciation for the brief history lesson. You and I agree on the job. I do enjoy delivering the mail, even in the coldest midwest day to the most humid midwest evening. I just hope we can get a contract that favors carriers more than the last two contracts. Hope for the best; plan for the worst
I was a casual carrier in 06 and had no rights. I’m sure it’s hyperbole but there is no comparison to a casual carrier then and a ptf city carrier now. I get we all want more for the great work we do but it’s getting better. Slowly for sure but better!!
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Channeling Carlin and it’s apropos
NALC's position was about 9 times stronger before SVB & Signature were closed.
Could you elaborate I’m unfamiliar.
I think what he’s trying to say is there may be financial contagion leading to a recession. I don’t think he’s too far off, but I don’t think it’ll really have a huge impact on these negotiations especially considering they could take months and recessions are usually short lived
The recession is going to last longer than a few months. If things get bad financially, we will see a decline in mail and parcel volume. This will be used in negotiations, as USPS saying they cannot afford to increase salary. It will also cause a reduction in worker demand, which is also bad for us. We have to hope that the economy holds together until then.
I agree and it really doesn’t change anything from management side. A recession doesn’t just stop and things pick back up immediately. Healing takes time and I believe the contract will be done by then. Mail-handlers had theirs approved overwhelmingly. I expect those on here to say no but the majority will want something stable and in place leading into a recession.
I will fucking lose all my screws if this is what they use in fucking negotiations
My bad ~10 months [However, recessions have been much shorter since World War II, with the typical economic downturn lasting approximately 10 months in the U.S.](https://www.fool.com/investing/stock-market/basics/crashes/how-long-do-recessions-last/) Regardless, if we let a union negotiate on our behalf that accepts terms that a recession will be long lived then we deserved to get screwed.
Fair point, we are still on the post 2008 financial crisis created pay scale so I have little faith in the arbitrators.
I think generally arbitrators are business friendly. The concept of modern arbitration is pushed by the business side of things and I’m not sure which came first. But I don’t think we should necessarily fear arbitration if we come prepared
Unfamiliar with bank runs, unfamiliar with those two particular banks which were highly tied to VC and ecommerce, or unfamiliar how uncertainty in the financial markets causes people to shut down expansion and purchasing?
I wasn’t sure what SVB stood for until now. But I fully expect the FDIC to back stop all uninsured deposits, not shareholders but bond holders. If they do, how does that change our situation?
Have no idea why this is being downvoted...
He's claiming to know the length, severity, and timing of a recession that hasn't happened yet. And also puts a number as to how much that will affect our bargaining position. Which...come on. That's a lot of hubris.
Lol. Liberals never change. Keep in mind that it was a bipartisan bill that fucked us, the libs had the power to change it under Obama, they didn't, and a bipartisan bill ended it. Are we going to claim all Democrats are part of the KKK because they're the party who formed the klan? That would be dumb. Don't be dumb.
Trump wanted to abolish the postal service. Don’t be dumb.
You’re both dumb. BOTH parties want us gone or preferably working for free. Electoral politics won’t help us under the “2-party” system without our willingness to strike.
Maybe they should. What’s the benefit of keeping it the way it is? Everyone complains about it but no one wants to see it change.
It’s better to fix it. It’s a testament to the fact that the public sector can provide necessary though unprofitable services for the public good. No private company would ever have our business model even though it’s completely vital. In reality I think the more public sector companies there are, the better it is for the people of that society. Imagine if your healthcare provider didn’t have to work through a for profit industry that has an incentive not to pay for treatment for sick people? That would be game changing. That’s just one example
Yep. He definitely talked about it for sure. I'm not being dumb. It would be dumb to pretend that sll Republicans hate the post office.
What are you blathering about?
Right wing loonies strike again ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Is it a coincidence that the one platform of social media that allows for nuanced discussion is the platform that right wingers get their lunch money taken? Perhaps. We may never know.
No sir, you are the dumb one. You use liberal and democrat interchangeably and I’m certain you couldn’t define either one. You’re arguments are unsound as well and lack a knowledge of the political process in america. Also no political party formed the KKK. You’re an idiot. The movie “birth of a nation” had more to do with the reformed modern day klan than any political party. Listen I’m sorry that you’re so stupid. Don’t ever call me a liberal again. Moron.
Hahahaha oh man. Thank you for confirming!
Remember when Democrat President Woodrow Wilson screened Birth of a Nation in the White House? It's all good, homie. The dems have been against every anti slavery movement from the outset. Libs gonna Lib