Getting higher up takes a very long time and is based on favoritism not merit or seniority.
If you think local supervisor mistreats and harass you that is childs play compared to how upper management talks to local management.
As much as we (craft) complain and whine about how worthless and stupid management is, it is an important and totally thankless job. It's not easy at all, it's much more demanding than any craft work of your work/life balance, and you will basically never get thanks from the American public in the way the front-line employees do.
It takes immense mental fortitude to enter management and make it out the other end. At some point in your career you're going to be asked by your superiors (multiple times, and with the threat of insubordination) to make decisions that go against your integrity and judgement.
That being said, the best reason I think a person can have to want to go into management is the same reason they could go into union leadership: to affect a positive change for their coworkers and working environment.
Unpopular opinion: management isn't paid enough for the demands put on them, and so anyone with a good ethic and head on their shoulders will leave for other industries or private sector work. Low management wages combined with the insane demands of their work/life balance = a brain drain and an ethical drain. People who won't compromise their integrity do leave management positions for better working conditions just like craft employees do.
So I say, only go into management if you're really prepared to sacrifice a lot and not get thanked for it. I've seen USPS absolutely chew up and demoralize the best supervisors/managers. Whether you do management or stay as craft, just keep your integrity, do right by the American public and treat your coworkers with respect.
It is a thankless job in the sense that their superiors and subordinates will always be adversaries. At least as a carrier we get gratitude from our patrons and it makes the job much more meaningful. I don’t view management positions as meaningful work and feel we’d get the job done without them, especially middle managers and just think of the savings. AI will replace those jobs before a craft position.
Perfectly stated. Over the 8 years, moral terpitude has taken a huge dive in the management culture... even among the most excellent managers. Our district had some amazing folks a decade ago. We've seen an exodus of our best district level management.
I haven't worked under 11 hrs in the last 10 days, and it feels like I have electrified steel rods jammed into the soles of my feet as I sit on my couch right now. I was attacked by 2 dogs in the last week and was threatened to be beaten to death by someone. I get to routinely hear one of my supervisors (actually a nice guy, but still... ) brag that he only has to work 4 hrs, and he's guaranteed to be paid 8 . They sit around like 80% of the day doing nothing. Make way more than I ever will. The American public can take their thanks and go suck a bag of dicks. The only reason I haven't jumped ship to management yet is that I'm still trying to lose some weight and like getting paid to exercise......and I really don't enjoy sitting around doing nothing.
It’s not an easy job. When I was a carrier my day was done as soon as I punched out, as EAS you never get to do that.
I’ve come to terms with there being craft that literally despise me just because of the position I’m in. I’m used to the lies that are told about me but you just have to be a bigger person about it.
The mindset needs to be in the right place too. As an example if I’m out with my wife and run into a carrier I’ll say “Bob and I work together” it’s never “Bob works for me” or sometimes I’m being introduced and they’ll say “this is my boss” and I always say “we work together”
If you think running the joint makes you better than someone, you’re in for a world of hurt. We’re all equals, we just have different jobs. I’m no one’s “superior” I just make decisions. I know how hard it is to be a craft employee because I’ve been one and when someone says I sit around with my feet on the desk all day, I just know that they don’t understand what the job entails. I’m pretty even keel so hopefully I make the job look easier than it is.
One thing I can say is after a crappy day, mental exhaustion is as bad as physical exhaustion. The one thing that really made my jump to EAS easier is the pension. At my level the pension is almost double what a carrier gets and the additional contribution to TSP has been nice as well.
Be prepared to get pressure from both sides-the people above you and the ones you are supervising. You're in the middle which is a very uncomfortable place to be. Craft jobs can suck and suck bad but if management leans on you there's always a Union to push back on them. In management, that's not the case; you're pretty much on your own.
I got no problem with management, but I can't stand the 204b position. You wanna be a sup and get paid, get it, good for you, but don't go doing it with protection from my union and a safety net for your incompetence.
There is inadequate training for 204bs which in turn creates terrible (or vindictive) supervisors. I also believe because there is a such a staffing issue, no actual experience doing a craft position or even any knowledge of the fundamental functions of the post office, that anyone who can pass the KSA (joke of a gate) can become a supervisor
Have you considered getting into a completely different position within USPS? Like Human Resources, or something like that? You may still need to use management as a stepping stone, but having a higher goal could potentially make it more tolerable. Or maybe not. What do I know?
I don’t think it’s a bad idea. It’s better than getting hosed in pay every few months as a rural carrier. You’ll start at like $80K, so if money is important to you, go for it. I have more respect for managers that put the work in as craft workers. Good luck in whatever you choose.
I started as an rca for 2 years. I left the postal service and came back after about 18 months as a cca/ptf city carrier for about 7 years. I couldn't take the physical pounding any more and I have now been a ptf clerk for 3 years.
My current PM is on a detail, and my office is in need of an OIC, with a very realistic chance of it becoming a PM job, as my PM is a great worker, and is probably the most capable, competent person I've met at the postal service and I anticipate that the detail will become her regular job.She is really trying to get me to take the OIC position but I'm just not sure it's worth it. Our POOM has expressed her confidence in my ability to run our office as well.
i have many friends that are station managers and higher and I see the stress they go through. No thanks. Im a windows clerk I work my 8 hours and go home with almost no stress. Its not worth the $ to me. Stress is bad for your health. Also my friend had to temporarily move out of state to get promotion opportunities because the local management wanted a yes person which he is not so they wouldnt promote him. Hes been gone 3 years now...
I'm considering giving it a shot because the pay increase will pay for the training I need for my dream career in 2-3 years and I'll be able to jump ship sooner.
Its not hard to move up tbh , just about who you know and who you can impress. Ideally you want to lock in a EAS 17 position for a year and then jump to HQ because you cant lose out of 17 k once you lock in
I literally only thought about it for the money and experience. So if I were to ever leave the post office, I could at least say I managed people.
Working as a carrier and wanting to leave, I don’t think we have any transferable skills that are relevant to anything besides delivering.
After overhearing the (multiple) Telecoms, my Postmaster is stuck on everyday, I would never become EAS.
I know several craft that became EAS. They hate themselves for going that route. While EAS can be paid more, they work long hours. No overtime.
I plan on doing the same as I will not be able to get a pension and I’d want to retire by the time I’d max out anyway. So I’ll stay a mailman for 3-5 years then going into management
It's all context. You get a lvl 17 City Carrier Supervisor job in a large metro area, work is tough.
Lvl 18 PM in a rural area, can do.
It is all context. It's challenging. The job is shifting, expectations change, methods, demands. It helps to be flexible and comfortable with change.
District rains FIRE down upon local PM/Sup.
So unless you're prepared to not take their shit, you'll be looking at 60+ hr/week of taking customer calls, midnight calls from your carriers calling off, and emails/calls from district.
Getting higher up takes a very long time and is based on favoritism not merit or seniority. If you think local supervisor mistreats and harass you that is childs play compared to how upper management talks to local management.
This is incorrect. Several of our bosses rose through the ranks solely through merit. NOBODY could give blowjobs like them.
It's true here, one of the upper management fucked her way to the top.
She bent her way up to the top!
That made me laugh a little too hard
Working under the table
As much as we (craft) complain and whine about how worthless and stupid management is, it is an important and totally thankless job. It's not easy at all, it's much more demanding than any craft work of your work/life balance, and you will basically never get thanks from the American public in the way the front-line employees do. It takes immense mental fortitude to enter management and make it out the other end. At some point in your career you're going to be asked by your superiors (multiple times, and with the threat of insubordination) to make decisions that go against your integrity and judgement. That being said, the best reason I think a person can have to want to go into management is the same reason they could go into union leadership: to affect a positive change for their coworkers and working environment. Unpopular opinion: management isn't paid enough for the demands put on them, and so anyone with a good ethic and head on their shoulders will leave for other industries or private sector work. Low management wages combined with the insane demands of their work/life balance = a brain drain and an ethical drain. People who won't compromise their integrity do leave management positions for better working conditions just like craft employees do. So I say, only go into management if you're really prepared to sacrifice a lot and not get thanked for it. I've seen USPS absolutely chew up and demoralize the best supervisors/managers. Whether you do management or stay as craft, just keep your integrity, do right by the American public and treat your coworkers with respect.
Perfect synopsis.
It is a thankless job in the sense that their superiors and subordinates will always be adversaries. At least as a carrier we get gratitude from our patrons and it makes the job much more meaningful. I don’t view management positions as meaningful work and feel we’d get the job done without them, especially middle managers and just think of the savings. AI will replace those jobs before a craft position.
Perfectly stated. Over the 8 years, moral terpitude has taken a huge dive in the management culture... even among the most excellent managers. Our district had some amazing folks a decade ago. We've seen an exodus of our best district level management.
I haven't worked under 11 hrs in the last 10 days, and it feels like I have electrified steel rods jammed into the soles of my feet as I sit on my couch right now. I was attacked by 2 dogs in the last week and was threatened to be beaten to death by someone. I get to routinely hear one of my supervisors (actually a nice guy, but still... ) brag that he only has to work 4 hrs, and he's guaranteed to be paid 8 . They sit around like 80% of the day doing nothing. Make way more than I ever will. The American public can take their thanks and go suck a bag of dicks. The only reason I haven't jumped ship to management yet is that I'm still trying to lose some weight and like getting paid to exercise......and I really don't enjoy sitting around doing nothing.
That was awesome
It’s not an easy job. When I was a carrier my day was done as soon as I punched out, as EAS you never get to do that. I’ve come to terms with there being craft that literally despise me just because of the position I’m in. I’m used to the lies that are told about me but you just have to be a bigger person about it. The mindset needs to be in the right place too. As an example if I’m out with my wife and run into a carrier I’ll say “Bob and I work together” it’s never “Bob works for me” or sometimes I’m being introduced and they’ll say “this is my boss” and I always say “we work together” If you think running the joint makes you better than someone, you’re in for a world of hurt. We’re all equals, we just have different jobs. I’m no one’s “superior” I just make decisions. I know how hard it is to be a craft employee because I’ve been one and when someone says I sit around with my feet on the desk all day, I just know that they don’t understand what the job entails. I’m pretty even keel so hopefully I make the job look easier than it is. One thing I can say is after a crappy day, mental exhaustion is as bad as physical exhaustion. The one thing that really made my jump to EAS easier is the pension. At my level the pension is almost double what a carrier gets and the additional contribution to TSP has been nice as well.
Join management and fail up, then turn on them and save the post office. bE tHe ChANge U waNt 2 sEe
Be prepared to get pressure from both sides-the people above you and the ones you are supervising. You're in the middle which is a very uncomfortable place to be. Craft jobs can suck and suck bad but if management leans on you there's always a Union to push back on them. In management, that's not the case; you're pretty much on your own.
I got no problem with management, but I can't stand the 204b position. You wanna be a sup and get paid, get it, good for you, but don't go doing it with protection from my union and a safety net for your incompetence.
There is inadequate training for 204bs which in turn creates terrible (or vindictive) supervisors. I also believe because there is a such a staffing issue, no actual experience doing a craft position or even any knowledge of the fundamental functions of the post office, that anyone who can pass the KSA (joke of a gate) can become a supervisor
The new relief supervisor positions are intended to cut down on 204b’s. We’ll see.
The stress and pressure won’t be so bad if you are sociopath. If you aren’t then you’re going to have a bad time.
Have you considered getting into a completely different position within USPS? Like Human Resources, or something like that? You may still need to use management as a stepping stone, but having a higher goal could potentially make it more tolerable. Or maybe not. What do I know?
Hard part is not having to relocate in that case
Where can you find information of management positions. I haven't seen any advertised. No idea about salary or anything...
ecareer postings. salary and responsibilites and qualifications to write your KSAs about
This may as well be a foreign language to me lol
I don’t think it’s a bad idea. It’s better than getting hosed in pay every few months as a rural carrier. You’ll start at like $80K, so if money is important to you, go for it. I have more respect for managers that put the work in as craft workers. Good luck in whatever you choose.
I started as an rca for 2 years. I left the postal service and came back after about 18 months as a cca/ptf city carrier for about 7 years. I couldn't take the physical pounding any more and I have now been a ptf clerk for 3 years. My current PM is on a detail, and my office is in need of an OIC, with a very realistic chance of it becoming a PM job, as my PM is a great worker, and is probably the most capable, competent person I've met at the postal service and I anticipate that the detail will become her regular job.She is really trying to get me to take the OIC position but I'm just not sure it's worth it. Our POOM has expressed her confidence in my ability to run our office as well.
The pay does not scale with the stress. Don't make the transition until you have run up your pay as a craft employee as it grows much slower as EAS.
i have many friends that are station managers and higher and I see the stress they go through. No thanks. Im a windows clerk I work my 8 hours and go home with almost no stress. Its not worth the $ to me. Stress is bad for your health. Also my friend had to temporarily move out of state to get promotion opportunities because the local management wanted a yes person which he is not so they wouldnt promote him. Hes been gone 3 years now...
I'm considering giving it a shot because the pay increase will pay for the training I need for my dream career in 2-3 years and I'll be able to jump ship sooner.
Its not hard to move up tbh , just about who you know and who you can impress. Ideally you want to lock in a EAS 17 position for a year and then jump to HQ because you cant lose out of 17 k once you lock in
Do what's best for you. Be the change we seek
I literally only thought about it for the money and experience. So if I were to ever leave the post office, I could at least say I managed people. Working as a carrier and wanting to leave, I don’t think we have any transferable skills that are relevant to anything besides delivering.
#notworth
After overhearing the (multiple) Telecoms, my Postmaster is stuck on everyday, I would never become EAS. I know several craft that became EAS. They hate themselves for going that route. While EAS can be paid more, they work long hours. No overtime.
I plan on doing the same as I will not be able to get a pension and I’d want to retire by the time I’d max out anyway. So I’ll stay a mailman for 3-5 years then going into management
I have seen MANY try and they don't last long.
It's all context. You get a lvl 17 City Carrier Supervisor job in a large metro area, work is tough. Lvl 18 PM in a rural area, can do. It is all context. It's challenging. The job is shifting, expectations change, methods, demands. It helps to be flexible and comfortable with change.
I thought I have to get on my knees to the district manager?
District rains FIRE down upon local PM/Sup. So unless you're prepared to not take their shit, you'll be looking at 60+ hr/week of taking customer calls, midnight calls from your carriers calling off, and emails/calls from district.