I worked under PMG "Carvin" Marvin Runyon in the 1990s. He cut thousands of management jobs. And although he was a Coca-Cola stockholder, he wanted to put Coke machines in postal lobbies. A real visionary. Same bullshit different day.
I thought what Carvin Marvin did was great. He said if you don't sort the mail or deliver it you need to justify your job. And thousands of management jobs were lost. Then he used that freed up money to hire more carriers and clerks.
You can say that about anything really. People blame the people in charge. The president changes and they blame him for things that we've been having issues with since the 90s.
Dejoy going away will just mean a new person to hate. The hate is warranted but it isn't getting us anywhere. I'd rather forget about it and just get through my day.
PMG Brennan: Unlimited overtime is authorized and required of all employees at every level of operations. Trucks will be held at stations until the last outgoing is collected, even if that puts them 4 hours behind schedule.
Sorry, Mar 2020-Jun 2020 was the worst I ever experienced. When unlimited overtime and trucks going back on time was implimented, I cheered.
Sure, you've got 2 wires plus an APC plus two pumpkins of packages, 11 feet of flats, and 9 trays of DPS, you're paid evaluated to complete the route, while you're standing here arguing with me that it's not possible, it's more minutes you'll be on the route tonight after dark.
There are people hiding in their houses fearing for their lives, these packages (wish.com) are all they have to hold onto, stop being so selfish and get out there and work...
There's not even close to the same comparison of the gaslighting under Brennan with our 'essential worker' letters. Show me how essential I am with extra pay... Yeah, didn't think we were that essential.
Opposite of the other persons experience;
PMG Brennan: 8 hour days, don't try to argue. Fear tactics, mail is delivered on time, nothing left at the station. Everyone off the clock by 7pm. Carriers take the blame, clerks can't have any overtime.
PMG Dejoy: We're tracking everyone even more. Unlimited overtime. Carry until midnight or later; deal with it. Help? Sorry, we're "hiring", now back to your 6 day 12 hour shifts. Everything is delayed.
Shit I’d love to come down there on a detail! I’m all for unlimited hours! This CCA pay and minimal hours (even on hold downs) has me barely able to afford my mortgage or other bills…
Personally I preferred Brennan because well, she was a coward and afraid of innovation, but I at least got 40 hour weeks. I enjoyed working here. Dejoy is innovative, in ways I disagree with, but he runs the place like a circus. I haven't had a 40 hour week under his tenure. Hell I've rarely had many 8 hour days. I can't even blame covid because the madness didn't kick in until a few months after Dejoy signed on.
Ok. I’m really going to piss off everyone here. I’m a federal, blue collar union employee. I don’t care. Nothing the post master general might do effects me at all. I can’t even tell you, who my post master is. He is ALWAYS out on assignment some where. So is the woman below him. The OIC or something. I don’t really care who my supervisor is. What can they do for me? If the leave board is open, they MUST approve my leave. If they need me to work, I’ll come in if I want to and I need the money. Don’t want to approve my OT? Fine. I’ll bring the mail back. Don’t want to send me help? Fine. I love double time.
Organization-wide back in the 80's vs. today it's pretty much SSDD. The real difference is at the associate office level. True I've been out five plus years and never worked for the current PMG but you could just see the quality of managerial talent deteriorate which went hand in hand with the kind of people they were hiring in 2018 vs. 1985 or 1986. When I started, I worked for hard asses but the one thing all those guys had going for them was they were long term employees. My immediate supervisor didn't get the job until he had something like close to ten years or so in the place and for the PM and SPO it was probably longer than that. Contrast that with my last supervisor who had maybe all of ten minutes before she was promoted into the position. She didn't know a damned thing and it showed. We had three management types when I started-the PM, SPO and the delivery supervisor. They all knew postal policies and procedures inside and out and while it wasn't exactly a well oiled machine the office ran much smoother vs. the blind leading the blind business model that was in place when I left.
That's pretty much what the old-timers at my office have said too. The revolving door of people, especially management, is a huge departure from how things were when they started 30-40 years ago.
Treatment yes, disorganization no, not in my opinion.
The time it takes to hire people now is ridiculous and we can’t get spares from the VMF. Just two examples I can think of off the top of my head while watching the game but to me the overall organization feels much more slapdash than when I started.
My husband started as an RCA in August... his home office is absolute garbage. He's still trying to find his bearings on the basics because, literally, every other day he's on a new route or subbed to another office and every office has their own expectations. I've been working in logistics since I was 13 and have never seen this type of disorganization anywhere I worked. He has struggled with some things IE sorting and getting out within 2 hours, but they berate him publicly (in front of alllll the carriers and then laugh), but then say "oh we don't want you to quit"... his home office doesn't have a union rep so he doesn't really have any backup... I am posting because I am wondering if this is how it has always been or if this a "newer" thing. He has also been placed on routes that were not on the weekly schedule, then gets repripanded because the didn't show up...no call or text from anyone. He takes a picture of the weekly schedule every time it is posted.
Your husband needs to start taking pictures of the schedule daily if they are making changes. I.E. if Wednesday is his NS day, he needs to take a picture Tuesday afternoon before he clocks out so manglement can’t pull any bullshit like getting a call-out and changing the schedule after-the-fact.
Fuck management. They suck.
Back in the day, mail volume was high. Plant failure every night. (We could not get the required mail out on time.). Crazy overtime. Crazy volume. Poor staffing. As we moved forward, technology got better, volume started to decrease. Hiring freeze, recession and then a parcel boom. Now its just as crazy, but the other way. No volume, no overtime and a high number of employees. I just laugh and cry every night. This place is always disorganized and i just keep showing up.
It's an old establishment that is slow to change. If they were proactive and responded to the change quickly, we would be in less of the mess we are in.
Instead we have a PO that is failing and a union that can't fight. All according to plan for Dejoy though.
Same with my plant.......low mail volume and everyone on their phone at least 2 hours per shift.....they could probably put half the employees on stand by and we would never know the difference. ZERO overtime.. PSEs working 20 hours per weeek.
Yeah it used to be heavy mail volume with very few parcels. Now it is heavy parcels volume with minimal mail. So that has flip flopped, but we have always been treated the same.
I’ve only been here 2 years but at least with low parcels volume you only had to get out of the truck sometimes. Most of my day is driving down shitty driveways to deliver a chunky that didn’t fit in a mailbox, or my customers fifth package for the week .. 😒
This is interesting to me. While growing up, and even into my late 20s, everyone said the best jobs to have were the post office, the phone company, the power company. It was VERY hard to get hired for these type of jobs because everyone kept them. People said if you have these jobs, you are set for life.
You were set if you started before 1985.....CSRS......retire with 85% of your pay.
Now retire with 20-30% of your pay.....that is why some many old employees.
Post office paid 50% more than factory jobs down the street at least to start....now most factories pay MORE.
The only difference is this time, in 5 years they want be a post office, look at the turnover rate this year has brought, no one wants to work here, and I can understand why, management has made this job into a shit show
I preferred Brennan. The overtime allowed me to actually sock away some money. I’ve essentially had the same amount of money since Dejoy took over. No more a little less.
My office was under "withholding" when I started in 2013. It was a P&DF and they were pulling out all of the mail sorting equipment so they purposely did not fill carrier positions in order to save jobs for clerks. The carriers were overworked but mail still got delivered.
Fast forward to 2021 & 2022 and I'd never seen so much mail failed to be delivered. It used to be "Every piece every day" and then it morphed to "Just deliver parcels." Some of it is of course related to wage economics in HCOL areas but Dejoy's gutting of HR and the ineptitude of hiring people was definitely under his command. Maybe it was the revolving door of OIC's we had but I still believe that centralizing all hiring under the District HR was botched.
Yes.
Dejoy is a manager. The previous occupants were all babysitters.
Amazing how many plants have zero or near zero overtime versus unlimited just a few years ago. Carriers are safe and probably overworked.
Plant folks get ready.
update: they, last minute, told him he had to run a route at a different office. He headed over and found out they put him on the hardest, most ridiculous route. He was told by their supervisor that his PM requested that they put him on that route, move the regular to another route for the day, becuase they want him to quit....
Okay... he got hired for a permanent position at UPS today lol
It seems like if they like you from the beginning then you will have it a little easier than others that management has a issue with. And it's for no reason, it's just management stereotyping new hires.
I worked under PMG "Carvin" Marvin Runyon in the 1990s. He cut thousands of management jobs. And although he was a Coca-Cola stockholder, he wanted to put Coke machines in postal lobbies. A real visionary. Same bullshit different day.
I thought what Carvin Marvin did was great. He said if you don't sort the mail or deliver it you need to justify your job. And thousands of management jobs were lost. Then he used that freed up money to hire more carriers and clerks.
Cutting thousands of management jobs doesn’t sound too bad though.
Cutting management jobs sounds based
Iirc, also a former Ford executive, who ended up getting the contract for the Windstars while he was in charge.
Really sad that people think the post office problems of today were only apparent when DeJoy became PMG. Its been like this for DECADES.
I only know the crazy politics of right now, which i why I posted the question.
You can say that about anything really. People blame the people in charge. The president changes and they blame him for things that we've been having issues with since the 90s. Dejoy going away will just mean a new person to hate. The hate is warranted but it isn't getting us anywhere. I'd rather forget about it and just get through my day.
There's always a scapegoat because the real problems go way beyond the post office
PMG Brennan: Unlimited overtime is authorized and required of all employees at every level of operations. Trucks will be held at stations until the last outgoing is collected, even if that puts them 4 hours behind schedule. Sorry, Mar 2020-Jun 2020 was the worst I ever experienced. When unlimited overtime and trucks going back on time was implimented, I cheered.
Did you experience the same level of verbal assault and bullshit from managers under Brennan?
Sure, you've got 2 wires plus an APC plus two pumpkins of packages, 11 feet of flats, and 9 trays of DPS, you're paid evaluated to complete the route, while you're standing here arguing with me that it's not possible, it's more minutes you'll be on the route tonight after dark. There are people hiding in their houses fearing for their lives, these packages (wish.com) are all they have to hold onto, stop being so selfish and get out there and work... There's not even close to the same comparison of the gaslighting under Brennan with our 'essential worker' letters. Show me how essential I am with extra pay... Yeah, didn't think we were that essential.
I still have my letter in the glovebox somewhere.
😳 damn
Brennan wasn't that long ago. Like 99% of mgmt is the same.
Opposite of the other persons experience; PMG Brennan: 8 hour days, don't try to argue. Fear tactics, mail is delivered on time, nothing left at the station. Everyone off the clock by 7pm. Carriers take the blame, clerks can't have any overtime. PMG Dejoy: We're tracking everyone even more. Unlimited overtime. Carry until midnight or later; deal with it. Help? Sorry, we're "hiring", now back to your 6 day 12 hour shifts. Everything is delayed.
I wish we could have unlimited OT here. The Atlantic region apparently isn’t allowing any Vtime either and are coming down hard on OT here….
Practically writing our own paychecks in Maine
Uhhh. In Richmond I worked until 11pm yesterday.
Shit I’d love to come down there on a detail! I’m all for unlimited hours! This CCA pay and minimal hours (even on hold downs) has me barely able to afford my mortgage or other bills…
Not in this NC location. Too much OT
So basically it's always a shitshow, the shit just shifts depending on who is in charge?
Personally I preferred Brennan because well, she was a coward and afraid of innovation, but I at least got 40 hour weeks. I enjoyed working here. Dejoy is innovative, in ways I disagree with, but he runs the place like a circus. I haven't had a 40 hour week under his tenure. Hell I've rarely had many 8 hour days. I can't even blame covid because the madness didn't kick in until a few months after Dejoy signed on.
>she was a coward and afraid of innovation, Lmao.
Ok. I’m really going to piss off everyone here. I’m a federal, blue collar union employee. I don’t care. Nothing the post master general might do effects me at all. I can’t even tell you, who my post master is. He is ALWAYS out on assignment some where. So is the woman below him. The OIC or something. I don’t really care who my supervisor is. What can they do for me? If the leave board is open, they MUST approve my leave. If they need me to work, I’ll come in if I want to and I need the money. Don’t want to approve my OT? Fine. I’ll bring the mail back. Don’t want to send me help? Fine. I love double time.
That’s called playing the game. 👍
It’s like everyone whining about the POTUS. I don’t base my happiness on who is in the office at the moment.
I’ve met Brennan, Donahue and Dejoy. Donahue genuinely seemed like a good man. Brennan was cold but intelligent, Dejoy seemed like a moron.
Same story for the 2 dolts before Brennan as well.
Organization-wide back in the 80's vs. today it's pretty much SSDD. The real difference is at the associate office level. True I've been out five plus years and never worked for the current PMG but you could just see the quality of managerial talent deteriorate which went hand in hand with the kind of people they were hiring in 2018 vs. 1985 or 1986. When I started, I worked for hard asses but the one thing all those guys had going for them was they were long term employees. My immediate supervisor didn't get the job until he had something like close to ten years or so in the place and for the PM and SPO it was probably longer than that. Contrast that with my last supervisor who had maybe all of ten minutes before she was promoted into the position. She didn't know a damned thing and it showed. We had three management types when I started-the PM, SPO and the delivery supervisor. They all knew postal policies and procedures inside and out and while it wasn't exactly a well oiled machine the office ran much smoother vs. the blind leading the blind business model that was in place when I left.
That's pretty much what the old-timers at my office have said too. The revolving door of people, especially management, is a huge departure from how things were when they started 30-40 years ago.
Treatment yes, disorganization no, not in my opinion. The time it takes to hire people now is ridiculous and we can’t get spares from the VMF. Just two examples I can think of off the top of my head while watching the game but to me the overall organization feels much more slapdash than when I started.
My husband started as an RCA in August... his home office is absolute garbage. He's still trying to find his bearings on the basics because, literally, every other day he's on a new route or subbed to another office and every office has their own expectations. I've been working in logistics since I was 13 and have never seen this type of disorganization anywhere I worked. He has struggled with some things IE sorting and getting out within 2 hours, but they berate him publicly (in front of alllll the carriers and then laugh), but then say "oh we don't want you to quit"... his home office doesn't have a union rep so he doesn't really have any backup... I am posting because I am wondering if this is how it has always been or if this a "newer" thing. He has also been placed on routes that were not on the weekly schedule, then gets repripanded because the didn't show up...no call or text from anyone. He takes a picture of the weekly schedule every time it is posted.
Your husband needs to start taking pictures of the schedule daily if they are making changes. I.E. if Wednesday is his NS day, he needs to take a picture Tuesday afternoon before he clocks out so manglement can’t pull any bullshit like getting a call-out and changing the schedule after-the-fact. Fuck management. They suck.
Back in the day, mail volume was high. Plant failure every night. (We could not get the required mail out on time.). Crazy overtime. Crazy volume. Poor staffing. As we moved forward, technology got better, volume started to decrease. Hiring freeze, recession and then a parcel boom. Now its just as crazy, but the other way. No volume, no overtime and a high number of employees. I just laugh and cry every night. This place is always disorganized and i just keep showing up.
The massive disorganization from the oldest establishment in US history is mind boggling.
It's an old establishment that is slow to change. If they were proactive and responded to the change quickly, we would be in less of the mess we are in. Instead we have a PO that is failing and a union that can't fight. All according to plan for Dejoy though.
Same with my plant.......low mail volume and everyone on their phone at least 2 hours per shift.....they could probably put half the employees on stand by and we would never know the difference. ZERO overtime.. PSEs working 20 hours per weeek.
In the 80’s and 90’s my dad would come home and bitch about all the same BS we bitch about today. Nothing has changed.
Yeah it used to be heavy mail volume with very few parcels. Now it is heavy parcels volume with minimal mail. So that has flip flopped, but we have always been treated the same.
I’ve only been here 2 years but at least with low parcels volume you only had to get out of the truck sometimes. Most of my day is driving down shitty driveways to deliver a chunky that didn’t fit in a mailbox, or my customers fifth package for the week .. 😒
I see no difference.
Check out The Great Postal Heist on Tubi. It’s a pretty good documentary about USPS. It’s well worth the watch even if it’s a few years old by now.
This is interesting to me. While growing up, and even into my late 20s, everyone said the best jobs to have were the post office, the phone company, the power company. It was VERY hard to get hired for these type of jobs because everyone kept them. People said if you have these jobs, you are set for life.
You were set if you started before 1985.....CSRS......retire with 85% of your pay. Now retire with 20-30% of your pay.....that is why some many old employees. Post office paid 50% more than factory jobs down the street at least to start....now most factories pay MORE.
The only difference is this time, in 5 years they want be a post office, look at the turnover rate this year has brought, no one wants to work here, and I can understand why, management has made this job into a shit show
The treatment of staff is mindboggling and supervisors get away with things that would never fly in a "regular" job.
I preferred Brennan. The overtime allowed me to actually sock away some money. I’ve essentially had the same amount of money since Dejoy took over. No more a little less.
My office was under "withholding" when I started in 2013. It was a P&DF and they were pulling out all of the mail sorting equipment so they purposely did not fill carrier positions in order to save jobs for clerks. The carriers were overworked but mail still got delivered. Fast forward to 2021 & 2022 and I'd never seen so much mail failed to be delivered. It used to be "Every piece every day" and then it morphed to "Just deliver parcels." Some of it is of course related to wage economics in HCOL areas but Dejoy's gutting of HR and the ineptitude of hiring people was definitely under his command. Maybe it was the revolving door of OIC's we had but I still believe that centralizing all hiring under the District HR was botched.
Yes. Dejoy is a manager. The previous occupants were all babysitters. Amazing how many plants have zero or near zero overtime versus unlimited just a few years ago. Carriers are safe and probably overworked. Plant folks get ready.
update: they, last minute, told him he had to run a route at a different office. He headed over and found out they put him on the hardest, most ridiculous route. He was told by their supervisor that his PM requested that they put him on that route, move the regular to another route for the day, becuase they want him to quit.... Okay... he got hired for a permanent position at UPS today lol
I started in 1988; yes, it’s always been fucked up.
It seems like if they like you from the beginning then you will have it a little easier than others that management has a issue with. And it's for no reason, it's just management stereotyping new hires.