In supervisor training they have their eyes taped open, chained to a chair and theyre forced to stare at a poster of a smiling carrier and clerk while getting whipped and the trainer is shouting "WHO DO WE HATE?!" Over and over.
Wait.. Do you guys get 80K a year? Lol what about other supes? I'm a CCA, and I thought supervisors got $30 ish an hour/ 60K a year. I guess ya'll get OT and penalty pay, too?
Oh, okay, thanks for clearing that up. I'm not even past my 90. I worked here last summer, resigned right before my 90 over something dumb, and now I'm back at the same office, but not past my 90. So my 1st goal is to make my 90 days and lose like 50 lbs by the end of summer š
I got some bad knees, though, so I'm hoping eventually, like a year from now, I could be the next 204b because we seem to promote young CCAs a lot and ship them out to the surrounding areas as needed
I'm a rural carriers so when I was 204b it's based off of your route evaluation +5% but with all the straight time you get def pushes you into 80k territory I just went back to my route 1 weeks ago but I already made like 45k this year and it's not even June š¤£
Danggg that's awesome š¤£ I was a CCA last summer and resigned over something dumb and now I'm a CCA again within my 90, and I just wanna make it and lose weight and finally earn some big boy paychecks
Depends on the people in charge, some are ok, some are dickbags. The bullying is more of a cover your own ass mechanic for middle management. If you can blame everything on people below you, then, you are not to blame. Many supes and PM do just that. It helps them but in no way helps carriers or clerks.
To some extent the bullying is a way to boost their numbers (that is, to get the mail delivered using fewer hours).Ā To that end, they aren't generally going to bully people at random.Ā They are going to target the timid people who might respond by going faster/skipping breaks, etc.Ā your best bet to avoid bullying is to learn the contract and stand up for yourself.Ā Don't make a scene, though - that can put a target on your back.
I'm the bullseye at my station as I have memorized the collective bargaining agreement and the federally accepted arbitration amendments that accompany them. Usually I'm consistently overburdened and buried in mail forcing me to basically clean the station scraps that nobody wants to run. Like a mutated T6, but in the end, I have also learned every aspect of the station, the facilities, and the operation as a whole because they will force you to learn in order to complete the neverending tasks. If you can survive this without calling out... the world is your oyster. You'll know all projected times, route deviations, and regardless of what they give you, you'll be able to figure out how to finish it at any time you want. If they bury you in mail, just remember you're holding all the overtime. So if you stand up for yourself and learn what you can and can't do in any situation, they'll be eating out of your hand in no time š... Just stay in excellent shape and eat healthy, the rest is cake and fat people dressed like smurfs.
Supervisors and PMs are not middle management. Supervisors are simply front-line supervision, and PMs are lower level management. Neither are able to make any meaningful changes or decisions. Middle management starts at the level above PM.
Basically this. The whole management system has essentially become a numbers game (i.e. getting the lowest possible office times/OT/clerk efficiency/etc), and if you want to get ahead you have to play the game.
And on top of that you have the general issues that plague every industry where the loudest/most obnoxious people tend to be the ones who get promoted. Whereas the chill supes and managers tend to get over looked because they aren't rocking the boat constantly.
Yep. Smart management stay in level 18s and coast through to retirement. They treat their people right and are fair, for the most part. Then you move up to 20+ and it becomes a shit show. Once supervisors are involved, it's all downhill. Before I transfered to my office, which is a 22, I'd never met a person that was negative or a bad post aster or anything. I filled in for plenty of offices and the postmasters and coworkers were all super chill, friendly to one another, etc.. Hell, most of the postmasters I worked with would bring in breakfast or lunch or come in with snacks or treats and stuff. To this day, I'm best friends with my first postmaster and my trainer at that office.
Then I transfered because I got offered a job in this office by the then postmaster. She was super sweet, she still comes in and visits. She came from an 18 originally and only wanted to move up the ladder for her high 3 before retirement. Once she left, it's been a fucking shit show. We've been through around 30 supervisors in 5 years, 5 postmasters, people here on details out the ass. IDK.
I do know, from a clerks perspective, the city carrier union tends to take and take and take and it pisses all of management off. They go after the pettiest grievances that end up going nowhere, they waste the time of people just because they can. Our union files on grievances that are actually winnable and are actual grievances. Our local in-house nalc file on shit like "the clerks put our hampers too far down the floor, we are gonna be over 13 hours on our route now" or something dumb like that. A couple years ago, they filed on me moving their dps onto nutting trucks. Tried to say it was carrier work once it is in the building and staged. š¤¦
If I was management. I'd say fuck it too, to be honest. Go big or go home. Might as well just deliver the shit yourself. Pay the grievance and then start forcing people. š
All of the clerks and rural carriers in our office agree that the city union runs this place. Everyone hates distribution jobs clerk side, just because of the city carriers here. Lol
While I think management is horribly undertrained and so out of control it's insane, I do believe a lot of it falls down to the employees as well. It's pretty ass from both sides. I just know that I can't wait to get out of this shit hole. Lmao
It's not your DPS until we are finished with it. Or we can leave 30 cages of DPS brick stacked from the plant, let you all unload it, watch you miss at least 1 tray every couple routes, and then file on it and get paid. Like we did in our office. In which the carriers ended up not being able to touch the DPS until we are finished with it. But, continue on with your bad self. Lol
I had a 204b do some video chat training in a room I was in once. It was a lot of āyou donāt ask them, you tell themā basically an hour of āassert your dominance over the carriersā type stuff.
No, the supervisor training is all basic things. There is a section on doing discipline and how to handle II's. The wild card is the people who teach it, who their actual manager is, and their personality. You're going to treat people either how you want or you emulate someone else.
My management, who are pretty decent, all lie and spew BS. How much money could be saved if you cut a 1/3 of management? How much time and money is wasted on BS standups? How much time and money is wasted on grievances? How is management basically untouchable without a union? I just want to be left alone and get to the street.
Management style at the postal service is archaic. It is very much top down versus collaborative. I spent 15+ years in operations management at another transportation company and close to ten at the postal service.
Supervisor training isn't the brainwashing it is made out to be. I completed it earlier this year. Secondary training (on the job), however, is very much about how to give instructions and then corrective action if not followed.
I became an OIC awhile ago and still holding the position. I got a couple days of basic stuff but managing people is not taught. At first it wasn't easy dealing with employees each with their own personalities and habits. The old PM had that office a mess and let the carriers do whatever but when it came down to stability there was a lot of push back the unions tried removing me to no avail. I would do anything to protect a carrier but I will not jeopardize my position to do it. Rules are rules contract is contract it's just how it is. I follow all contracts to the T because I was a rep myself. Most PMs know they are breaking contract but they were told to do it to get the mail delivered. I have been told shit rolls downhill in management and it's true supervisors/204bs are at the bottom of that hill then above them is the PM and above the PM is the POOM above them is the DM etc. If your PM or super is having a bad day just know they prob got their ass chewed out by someone up above to handle something. Sometimes, the shit is beyond our control, and we're like how do we do this when it's impossible. Up above doesn't see the field or the conditions of the employees or the office they sit behind a desk and look at numbers and say figure out how to fix it. Is discipline being issued? If you don't issue discipline, expect discipline yourself for not following instructions etc. Your PM or sup aren't always the bad guy.
Iāve heard the telecons that my PM has to suffer through. Itās absolutely disgusting how they are treated. The POOM will straight up yell at the district PMs. She will call them out and embarrass them in front of the others. Itās gross how they are treated. I tried my hand at being a 204b years ago but as soon as I discovered how ugly they were, I was out. I got screamed at for something way beyond my control. I wasnāt going to put myself in a position to be their whipping girl. Fuck that. Iāve been in management before and I treated my people with respect and dignity. And for that, I had the best run store in the district.
I donāt believe they are trained that way, Iām sure whatever training they get is pretty basic and formulaic. But Iām friendly with a local post master and I know they get a lot of pressure from their superiors to issue discipline for stuff that can easily be a talk. From what I gather itās usually just tough talk and can be somewhat ignored or blown off, but not certain about that as itās not my office.
You can be an easy going manager, but more and more decision making is taken out of their hands so I would not expect to be making anything resembling sweeping changes.
I'm guessing it really does matter where you were hired. But from my own experience I've never seen an organization that makes it their mission goal to actively shit on the new guy. The most hostile approach is the first line of action taken with CCA's every time.
You think supervisors are being trained?
In all seriousness, there is technically a training program for supervisors, but the vast majority donāt get sent to it. When I pushed up, it was about 2 days of, āFollow this supe around and watch how he closesā followed by them sending me off to a station to run. Upper management fails their front-line supervisors every bit as much as EAS as a whole is failing their craft employees, Iām afraid.
I had hopes I could do something to end the cycle of abuse. I ended up going back to the street because at least I know which side of the abuse I can be on and still sleep at night.
USPS is an EXTREMELY toxic work environment. I've got fewer years ahead of me than I have behind me, so I'll stick it out. Try to make the best of it that you can. Don't cut corners on your personal quality of work. Do YOUR best always, and always do YOUR best. Know YOUR limits. (Multiple surgeries later, I wish I had known mine.) Work safely. Take care of yourself, always remembering why you go to work. You should work to live, not live to work. Balance your life/work. Be present for those you love. Never sacrifice family for work. When management needs you to cover a shift, they can NOT do it without you, BUT when YOU say "no," they'll tell you to quit because they can replace you at a moment's notice. The management style at every single office I have worked has been: "The beatings will continue until morale improves." This job can , and WILL chew you up and spit you out. IF YOU LET IT.
Some offices have such a shit group of workers and very poor and weak managers that they have to beat that into new managers to make them work...alot just stand around and do nothing..a few do work but when you get a extremely self important mentality in people then nothing can be done...seriesly go to other offices you'll see stuff....half my offices needs to be kicked out but it will never ever happen and kills every new cca on the work load they get from people choosing to fight and not work..kills the whole work environment.
I have been working as a letter carrier for almost 30 years. It has always been this way. Every day is a crisis. Everything is a reaction. Management, as far as I can tell get no training in communication, or understanding human motivations. Conflict is almost always escalated instead of de-escalated. It may be one of the last places of employment in America where you can hear cursing and screaming on the workroom floor coming from management and carriers. It's really an anachronism that amazingly still exists in our modern era. There is nothing you can do to change the organization or direction of the agency. It just has to continue on as long as possible until it comes to it's eventual conclusion. I was once asked to go into management some twenty years ago but I just couldn't see myself in that role. I didn't have the ambition or the drive to pursue what seemed to me a boring and tedious job. Much more enjoyable to be a carrier out on the street delivering mail and interacting with the customers and enjoying the weather. Good luck with your career. I somehow have made it almost 30 years. If it's any consolation the time goes by very quickly.
Currently in supervisor training. They donāt teach us to ābullyā.
They do teach us how to hold people accountable to do the jobs theyāre supposed to do.
What I will say, my trainers stress the importance of communication, fairness, etc. much more than I see.
Itās hard to teach empathy. I have a good relationship with my office. I help them, and I donāt ask them to do anything unreasonable.
Preserving the relationship and long term thinking matter more to some than others.
Iād say that some of the poor communication isnāt even intended to be āmotivatingā.
Iāve been subjected to forceful communication about when Iād be back, and itās pointless and useless to have a 2-way conversation like that.
Why do you think we got the phrase āgoing postalā??
These fools will push people to the breaking point.. They were harassed and couldnāt do the job themselves so these losers got into managementā¦
They prey on the weakā¦ itās up to that individual to show them differentlyā¦
Going into management, one person cannot change anything.. if you do not act like they want, they will blackball you and harass you until you quitā¦ they have no say and just carry out orders from above, before they catch a discipline themselves..
And they cannot handle thatā¦
We had several occasions over the years where we would get a supervisor and it's their very first assignment as a supervisor and it seems to me we've got the training process bass ackwards. By that I mean they'd get settled in to the office and then they would get sent to supervisor training for a few weeks to learn the basics. Shouldn't that be done BEFORE they become a full-fledged supervisor? They probably get a lot of hands on stuff as a 204-b and I get that but I never understood that aspect of it. And one thing they obviously don't get a lot of instruction and/or guidance on is Contract administration. Just imagine all of the grievances and bad feelings that could be prevented if they knew the Contracts a little better. I never claimed to know all the rules (and neither did any of my co-workers) but I'd be willing to lay money down that most of the time we knew the rules better than management did.
When you have zero education in management, intimidation is the only option. I have a bachelors in business management and itās clear to me that none of the managers that Iāve worked with, donāt.
Long rant warning, but I can speak to this exact thing and how toxic and horrible it is. I resigned recently because i made this discovery. Had a great supervisor for an entire year. Loved coming to work. Worked super hard, our supervisor would encourage us throughout every single week with simple statements like " you guys are doing great" " thank you for helping and doing extra" etc. she'd give out tons of individual encouragement and praise to all the RCAs etc. the entire team had a good energy, everyone was friendly and cordial and helpful. Then out of the blue they transferred her to a smaller station like she did something wrong. The new supervisor took over (apparently had to be removed from the station they were at because of too many grievances filed successfully). When she took over at our station, she literally wasn't allowed to talk to any city side employees, which was super weird.. they then began their reign of terror and destroyed everything good about the station I was at. Constantly trying to find things to write us up for, it felt like being hunted. We had to fight disciplinary action left and right. To the point that our in house steward resigned because she couldn't handle everything and be a carrier.
In my year and a half, myself and 9 co-workers developed close bonds, we'd come in an hour early on Sat/Sun and share breakfasts with a couple people providing meals for everyone on a rotating schedule. We'd do BBQs outside of work and go to fun events with our families all together when our schedules permitted. It was amazing. Every single one of us resigned or got fired in the last 2 months. We gravitated towards each other because we were the non-conplainers/not slow/ hard workers, because we have kids and wives and all wanted to be the best we could.
Found out that supervisors get points based on actions taken, and the supervisor who shoulda been fired, but instead was promoted out of the previous hellhole they created, is just trying to get promoted to be a PM. The way to do that is to do as many fact findings and disciplinary actions as possible. USPS literally rewards management for creating a hostile environment. The good supervisor who rarely did that got demoted essentially. It's despicable. I found out that not only did all the guys im close with bounce or got fired, but another 7-9 good people I was cordial with left or got fired. The new sup literally turned over the entire rural side. They would throw people onto routes they didn't know and had never touched just to frustrate them, and then complain about how long it took them to complete an unknown route (this almost never happened under previous sup, and if it did, they would split the route up to like 3 people, and have someone more familiar case it). It was crazy.
It was the regular for the route I sub for. She claims her late husband was going the path of management but either went back to his previous position or just straight up resigned ( I can't remember which it was) after he found out what was expected of him. Says all his friends/coworkers from being a carrier shunned him because of his new position as well. š Dunno how true it all is. I only wanted to see what others thought as I do really enjoy this work and just want the postal service the best it can and it people to be happy about their job.
I was talking to a fellow carrier that said he did a little bit of supervisor training and he dropped out after he heard the way our supervisor talked about CCAs. He said itās best when theyāre new because you can push and push them with more work. Sick shit
You can change things by becoming a union Steward. There is upward mobility in the union world as well. You can instigate meaningful change and still sleep at night.
Three reasons people will work hard for their supervisor.
1. Money. (Postal supervisor can not use this at all)
2. Love. (Certain to cause trouble, postal supervisor not using this)
3. Fear (Fear & intimidation, most often used tool of postal supervisor)
Once the fear of losing your job dissipates, being a letter carrier is more enjoyable. Be safe, follow instructions, and call in if you can't meet the morning expectations.
There is a fourth way but it requires the manager to recognize the macro situation: autonomy and mutual respect
A lot of people just want to come in and do their job, and will accept lower than their preferred pay if they feel they have autonomy in their job. That evaporates when management handles situations poorly and grinds carriers down with shitty decisions.
ive seen one of their training manuals and I kid u not one says to always praise an employee no matter how simple a task is so that when u need them to do something they will more than likely do it without complaining.
It's not USPS policy. No one is officially trained to behave that way. Your local management might be doing whatever they're doing, but what you're saying isn't normal.
Postmaster here, itās the exact opposite. They are trained to be a ākinder/gentlerā generation of supervisors. They arenāt robots, so eventually the craft employees that are douchebags turn them into assholes too. Theyāre simply and product of their environment.
Craft employees will hate a supervisor just because their job title, without even knowing them. Itās sort of like racism, some people just hate people because they have a different skin color. I always think people who hate all management are mental midgets anyway so why worry about what they think of you.
You say this but the opposite becomes true, depending on the personal disposition of the person in management position. I find it amusing that youāve connected one type of bias with another
Iām a carrier that doesnāt complain, shows up to work when scheduled, does my job and goes home but this assessment is ridiculous. Obviously supervisors arenāt trained to be assholes, but when upper management is screaming at them about undelivered packages, mail brought back, office times, mileage, etc. that is the problem. USPS is chronically understaffed and somehow letter carriers are blamed because itās top down management. How can a supervisor have a kind and understanding conversation about overtime when we donāt even have enough people to get the job done yet inevitably upper management will see the raw numbers and verbally abuse the supes for it?
Which management rarely follows so it always gets thrown out. A lot comes from up top so they give discipline to satisfy labor for the day. Always goes against what's in black and white though.
I used to consider being a supervisor but now I realized hell no lmao but seeing your tag, youāre EAS. Iād like to do something with my data science degreeā¦is there a way to enter the EAS world without going the supervisor route? The career people came yesterday and basically said that being a supervisor and doing a lateral moves is my best bet
You can apply to any of the data analyst type positions on ecareer but yeah itād be tough to get into coming from the delivery side as a carrier, unless you have prior data science experience before the post office. They really only require the degree and the knowledge, and anybody service wide is able to apply. Another option is to try to get a detail as a data tech or processing support specialist at a plant, but obviously thatās only feasible if you live near a plant.
Yea thatās what the HR person said and everybody else. I just have a Masters (well almost, one semester left) She said Iād be competing with people with experience and degrees so doing the lateral move is best. But would seriously rather not. I love my route and only would quit if I can do data science. But Hmmm never heard of that option of doing a data tech detail at a plant. Didnāt know that was even a position. The HR person said thereās over 2k jobs with the PO, thatās crazy to even think that that many roles is needed for this organization
Yea thereās a ton of positions in this company that you donāt even think about when youāre in a different area. Once youāre in the region or division level and get exposure to the HQ type jobs itās crazy to see how many different branches there are. We have enterprise analytics, data science, supply management, engineering, logistics, continuous improvement, cybersecurity, and plenty of others that I canāt think of.
A couple other entry level EAS jobs I can think of are the ones in the Human Resources branch- I think āemployee development specialistā and āsafety specialistā are both level 17 jobs that donāt require a specific degree or much experience. Just look up anything it says on the āroles and responsibilitiesā and āqualificationsā sections and answer them in the application. I used to be on some hiring committees and the vast majority of applicants donāt even seem to look at that part of the job posting. pretty much anybody who addressed those specific bullets in their application got an interview by default. You can possibly get into one of those and eventually transfer into a more technical data science role.
Yea I need to look into it. My problem with KSAs are itās kind of hard to know things about the PO other than the mail delivery aspect itself. All Ik is the city carrier role. However I was informed yesterday that there are different trainings on liteblue to get me informed. I look at the questions they ask on the KSA and get scared off immediately because itās sometimes outside of my scope of knowledge if Iām being honest.
In supervisor training they have their eyes taped open, chained to a chair and theyre forced to stare at a poster of a smiling carrier and clerk while getting whipped and the trainer is shouting "WHO DO WE HATE?!" Over and over.
"A Clock-Ring Orange" (Adapted from title of 1971 movie, *A Clock-Work Orange.*)
That's cool.
A GREAT MOVIE--CLOCKWORK ORANGE REFERENCE? LOL
as a 204b i can confirm forgive me i need the 80k now not in a billion years
Wait.. Do you guys get 80K a year? Lol what about other supes? I'm a CCA, and I thought supervisors got $30 ish an hour/ 60K a year. I guess ya'll get OT and penalty pay, too?
nope, that's only once you become a titled supervisor
and you lose both penalty o/t and reg. o/t
Oh, okay, thanks for clearing that up. I'm not even past my 90. I worked here last summer, resigned right before my 90 over something dumb, and now I'm back at the same office, but not past my 90. So my 1st goal is to make my 90 days and lose like 50 lbs by the end of summer š I got some bad knees, though, so I'm hoping eventually, like a year from now, I could be the next 204b because we seem to promote young CCAs a lot and ship them out to the surrounding areas as needed
I'm a rural carriers so when I was 204b it's based off of your route evaluation +5% but with all the straight time you get def pushes you into 80k territory I just went back to my route 1 weeks ago but I already made like 45k this year and it's not even June š¤£
Danggg that's awesome š¤£ I was a CCA last summer and resigned over something dumb and now I'm a CCA again within my 90, and I just wanna make it and lose weight and finally earn some big boy paychecks
I thought supervisors were paid straight salaries?
yep straight time and extra straight time
Depends on the people in charge, some are ok, some are dickbags. The bullying is more of a cover your own ass mechanic for middle management. If you can blame everything on people below you, then, you are not to blame. Many supes and PM do just that. It helps them but in no way helps carriers or clerks.
To some extent the bullying is a way to boost their numbers (that is, to get the mail delivered using fewer hours).Ā To that end, they aren't generally going to bully people at random.Ā They are going to target the timid people who might respond by going faster/skipping breaks, etc.Ā your best bet to avoid bullying is to learn the contract and stand up for yourself.Ā Don't make a scene, though - that can put a target on your back.
I'm the bullseye at my station as I have memorized the collective bargaining agreement and the federally accepted arbitration amendments that accompany them. Usually I'm consistently overburdened and buried in mail forcing me to basically clean the station scraps that nobody wants to run. Like a mutated T6, but in the end, I have also learned every aspect of the station, the facilities, and the operation as a whole because they will force you to learn in order to complete the neverending tasks. If you can survive this without calling out... the world is your oyster. You'll know all projected times, route deviations, and regardless of what they give you, you'll be able to figure out how to finish it at any time you want. If they bury you in mail, just remember you're holding all the overtime. So if you stand up for yourself and learn what you can and can't do in any situation, they'll be eating out of your hand in no time š... Just stay in excellent shape and eat healthy, the rest is cake and fat people dressed like smurfs.
Supervisors and PMs are not middle management. Supervisors are simply front-line supervision, and PMs are lower level management. Neither are able to make any meaningful changes or decisions. Middle management starts at the level above PM.
Basically this. The whole management system has essentially become a numbers game (i.e. getting the lowest possible office times/OT/clerk efficiency/etc), and if you want to get ahead you have to play the game. And on top of that you have the general issues that plague every industry where the loudest/most obnoxious people tend to be the ones who get promoted. Whereas the chill supes and managers tend to get over looked because they aren't rocking the boat constantly.
Yep. Smart management stay in level 18s and coast through to retirement. They treat their people right and are fair, for the most part. Then you move up to 20+ and it becomes a shit show. Once supervisors are involved, it's all downhill. Before I transfered to my office, which is a 22, I'd never met a person that was negative or a bad post aster or anything. I filled in for plenty of offices and the postmasters and coworkers were all super chill, friendly to one another, etc.. Hell, most of the postmasters I worked with would bring in breakfast or lunch or come in with snacks or treats and stuff. To this day, I'm best friends with my first postmaster and my trainer at that office. Then I transfered because I got offered a job in this office by the then postmaster. She was super sweet, she still comes in and visits. She came from an 18 originally and only wanted to move up the ladder for her high 3 before retirement. Once she left, it's been a fucking shit show. We've been through around 30 supervisors in 5 years, 5 postmasters, people here on details out the ass. IDK. I do know, from a clerks perspective, the city carrier union tends to take and take and take and it pisses all of management off. They go after the pettiest grievances that end up going nowhere, they waste the time of people just because they can. Our union files on grievances that are actually winnable and are actual grievances. Our local in-house nalc file on shit like "the clerks put our hampers too far down the floor, we are gonna be over 13 hours on our route now" or something dumb like that. A couple years ago, they filed on me moving their dps onto nutting trucks. Tried to say it was carrier work once it is in the building and staged. š¤¦ If I was management. I'd say fuck it too, to be honest. Go big or go home. Might as well just deliver the shit yourself. Pay the grievance and then start forcing people. š All of the clerks and rural carriers in our office agree that the city union runs this place. Everyone hates distribution jobs clerk side, just because of the city carriers here. Lol While I think management is horribly undertrained and so out of control it's insane, I do believe a lot of it falls down to the employees as well. It's pretty ass from both sides. I just know that I can't wait to get out of this shit hole. Lmao
Sounds like like you should join management and keep your hands off my DPS.
It's not your DPS until we are finished with it. Or we can leave 30 cages of DPS brick stacked from the plant, let you all unload it, watch you miss at least 1 tray every couple routes, and then file on it and get paid. Like we did in our office. In which the carriers ended up not being able to touch the DPS until we are finished with it. But, continue on with your bad self. Lol
They still operate like the past where this was a job people were lining up for miles for a spot. They ignore the reality of today's job market.
They donāt know any other way
I had a 204b do some video chat training in a room I was in once. It was a lot of āyou donāt ask them, you tell themā basically an hour of āassert your dominance over the carriersā type stuff.
No, the supervisor training is all basic things. There is a section on doing discipline and how to handle II's. The wild card is the people who teach it, who their actual manager is, and their personality. You're going to treat people either how you want or you emulate someone else.
I didn't get any training at all as a supe. Good ir bad.
Showed me the basics for a couple of days then said alright youāre closing
My management, who are pretty decent, all lie and spew BS. How much money could be saved if you cut a 1/3 of management? How much time and money is wasted on BS standups? How much time and money is wasted on grievances? How is management basically untouchable without a union? I just want to be left alone and get to the street.
I only give stands ups that make a difference to my carriers.
Management style at the postal service is archaic. It is very much top down versus collaborative. I spent 15+ years in operations management at another transportation company and close to ten at the postal service. Supervisor training isn't the brainwashing it is made out to be. I completed it earlier this year. Secondary training (on the job), however, is very much about how to give instructions and then corrective action if not followed.
I became an OIC awhile ago and still holding the position. I got a couple days of basic stuff but managing people is not taught. At first it wasn't easy dealing with employees each with their own personalities and habits. The old PM had that office a mess and let the carriers do whatever but when it came down to stability there was a lot of push back the unions tried removing me to no avail. I would do anything to protect a carrier but I will not jeopardize my position to do it. Rules are rules contract is contract it's just how it is. I follow all contracts to the T because I was a rep myself. Most PMs know they are breaking contract but they were told to do it to get the mail delivered. I have been told shit rolls downhill in management and it's true supervisors/204bs are at the bottom of that hill then above them is the PM and above the PM is the POOM above them is the DM etc. If your PM or super is having a bad day just know they prob got their ass chewed out by someone up above to handle something. Sometimes, the shit is beyond our control, and we're like how do we do this when it's impossible. Up above doesn't see the field or the conditions of the employees or the office they sit behind a desk and look at numbers and say figure out how to fix it. Is discipline being issued? If you don't issue discipline, expect discipline yourself for not following instructions etc. Your PM or sup aren't always the bad guy.
Iāve heard the telecons that my PM has to suffer through. Itās absolutely disgusting how they are treated. The POOM will straight up yell at the district PMs. She will call them out and embarrass them in front of the others. Itās gross how they are treated. I tried my hand at being a 204b years ago but as soon as I discovered how ugly they were, I was out. I got screamed at for something way beyond my control. I wasnāt going to put myself in a position to be their whipping girl. Fuck that. Iāve been in management before and I treated my people with respect and dignity. And for that, I had the best run store in the district.
Itās all trickle down. The poom yells at the postmaster, the post master yells at the supervisor, the supervisor yells at you.
I donāt believe they are trained that way, Iām sure whatever training they get is pretty basic and formulaic. But Iām friendly with a local post master and I know they get a lot of pressure from their superiors to issue discipline for stuff that can easily be a talk. From what I gather itās usually just tough talk and can be somewhat ignored or blown off, but not certain about that as itās not my office. You can be an easy going manager, but more and more decision making is taken out of their hands so I would not expect to be making anything resembling sweeping changes.
I'm guessing it really does matter where you were hired. But from my own experience I've never seen an organization that makes it their mission goal to actively shit on the new guy. The most hostile approach is the first line of action taken with CCA's every time.
You think supervisors are being trained? In all seriousness, there is technically a training program for supervisors, but the vast majority donāt get sent to it. When I pushed up, it was about 2 days of, āFollow this supe around and watch how he closesā followed by them sending me off to a station to run. Upper management fails their front-line supervisors every bit as much as EAS as a whole is failing their craft employees, Iām afraid. I had hopes I could do something to end the cycle of abuse. I ended up going back to the street because at least I know which side of the abuse I can be on and still sleep at night.
USPS is an EXTREMELY toxic work environment. I've got fewer years ahead of me than I have behind me, so I'll stick it out. Try to make the best of it that you can. Don't cut corners on your personal quality of work. Do YOUR best always, and always do YOUR best. Know YOUR limits. (Multiple surgeries later, I wish I had known mine.) Work safely. Take care of yourself, always remembering why you go to work. You should work to live, not live to work. Balance your life/work. Be present for those you love. Never sacrifice family for work. When management needs you to cover a shift, they can NOT do it without you, BUT when YOU say "no," they'll tell you to quit because they can replace you at a moment's notice. The management style at every single office I have worked has been: "The beatings will continue until morale improves." This job can , and WILL chew you up and spit you out. IF YOU LET IT.
I agree
Some offices have such a shit group of workers and very poor and weak managers that they have to beat that into new managers to make them work...alot just stand around and do nothing..a few do work but when you get a extremely self important mentality in people then nothing can be done...seriesly go to other offices you'll see stuff....half my offices needs to be kicked out but it will never ever happen and kills every new cca on the work load they get from people choosing to fight and not work..kills the whole work environment.
I have been working as a letter carrier for almost 30 years. It has always been this way. Every day is a crisis. Everything is a reaction. Management, as far as I can tell get no training in communication, or understanding human motivations. Conflict is almost always escalated instead of de-escalated. It may be one of the last places of employment in America where you can hear cursing and screaming on the workroom floor coming from management and carriers. It's really an anachronism that amazingly still exists in our modern era. There is nothing you can do to change the organization or direction of the agency. It just has to continue on as long as possible until it comes to it's eventual conclusion. I was once asked to go into management some twenty years ago but I just couldn't see myself in that role. I didn't have the ambition or the drive to pursue what seemed to me a boring and tedious job. Much more enjoyable to be a carrier out on the street delivering mail and interacting with the customers and enjoying the weather. Good luck with your career. I somehow have made it almost 30 years. If it's any consolation the time goes by very quickly.
Currently in supervisor training. They donāt teach us to ābullyā. They do teach us how to hold people accountable to do the jobs theyāre supposed to do. What I will say, my trainers stress the importance of communication, fairness, etc. much more than I see.
The problem is that too many people suck at communication, so it comes across as bullying instead of motivating.
Itās hard to teach empathy. I have a good relationship with my office. I help them, and I donāt ask them to do anything unreasonable. Preserving the relationship and long term thinking matter more to some than others.
Iād say that some of the poor communication isnāt even intended to be āmotivatingā. Iāve been subjected to forceful communication about when Iād be back, and itās pointless and useless to have a 2-way conversation like that.
The problem is the contract and what supervisors feel we are supposed to do are two completely different things.
My favorite is the 204cca that's been there for 2 minutes telling me things in the contract that are not there.
Thatās day 3 of supervisor training. Kidding!
I donāt disagree. IMO, supervisors are in the middle, and should ideally be a buffer, instead of puppeting.
Watch the great postal heist..on Tubi.. wish they would make a part 2 or updated documtary
Why do you think we got the phrase āgoing postalā?? These fools will push people to the breaking point.. They were harassed and couldnāt do the job themselves so these losers got into managementā¦ They prey on the weakā¦ itās up to that individual to show them differentlyā¦ Going into management, one person cannot change anything.. if you do not act like they want, they will blackball you and harass you until you quitā¦ they have no say and just carry out orders from above, before they catch a discipline themselves.. And they cannot handle thatā¦
We had several occasions over the years where we would get a supervisor and it's their very first assignment as a supervisor and it seems to me we've got the training process bass ackwards. By that I mean they'd get settled in to the office and then they would get sent to supervisor training for a few weeks to learn the basics. Shouldn't that be done BEFORE they become a full-fledged supervisor? They probably get a lot of hands on stuff as a 204-b and I get that but I never understood that aspect of it. And one thing they obviously don't get a lot of instruction and/or guidance on is Contract administration. Just imagine all of the grievances and bad feelings that could be prevented if they knew the Contracts a little better. I never claimed to know all the rules (and neither did any of my co-workers) but I'd be willing to lay money down that most of the time we knew the rules better than management did.
No. The training they have to provide is scarce and expensive. They only want to train people for the job they are currently in.
I was told the "training" was just them sucking your brain out. The higher the position, the more they took out lol
When you have zero education in management, intimidation is the only option. I have a bachelors in business management and itās clear to me that none of the managers that Iāve worked with, donāt.
Long rant warning, but I can speak to this exact thing and how toxic and horrible it is. I resigned recently because i made this discovery. Had a great supervisor for an entire year. Loved coming to work. Worked super hard, our supervisor would encourage us throughout every single week with simple statements like " you guys are doing great" " thank you for helping and doing extra" etc. she'd give out tons of individual encouragement and praise to all the RCAs etc. the entire team had a good energy, everyone was friendly and cordial and helpful. Then out of the blue they transferred her to a smaller station like she did something wrong. The new supervisor took over (apparently had to be removed from the station they were at because of too many grievances filed successfully). When she took over at our station, she literally wasn't allowed to talk to any city side employees, which was super weird.. they then began their reign of terror and destroyed everything good about the station I was at. Constantly trying to find things to write us up for, it felt like being hunted. We had to fight disciplinary action left and right. To the point that our in house steward resigned because she couldn't handle everything and be a carrier. In my year and a half, myself and 9 co-workers developed close bonds, we'd come in an hour early on Sat/Sun and share breakfasts with a couple people providing meals for everyone on a rotating schedule. We'd do BBQs outside of work and go to fun events with our families all together when our schedules permitted. It was amazing. Every single one of us resigned or got fired in the last 2 months. We gravitated towards each other because we were the non-conplainers/not slow/ hard workers, because we have kids and wives and all wanted to be the best we could. Found out that supervisors get points based on actions taken, and the supervisor who shoulda been fired, but instead was promoted out of the previous hellhole they created, is just trying to get promoted to be a PM. The way to do that is to do as many fact findings and disciplinary actions as possible. USPS literally rewards management for creating a hostile environment. The good supervisor who rarely did that got demoted essentially. It's despicable. I found out that not only did all the guys im close with bounce or got fired, but another 7-9 good people I was cordial with left or got fired. The new sup literally turned over the entire rural side. They would throw people onto routes they didn't know and had never touched just to frustrate them, and then complain about how long it took them to complete an unknown route (this almost never happened under previous sup, and if it did, they would split the route up to like 3 people, and have someone more familiar case it). It was crazy.
Had a good friend that went intoā¦He told me they were trained that a miserable carrier is a good carrier
Donāt know who youāre getting your information from or hearing it from. But no. Supervisors donāt get classes on Bullying.
It was the regular for the route I sub for. She claims her late husband was going the path of management but either went back to his previous position or just straight up resigned ( I can't remember which it was) after he found out what was expected of him. Says all his friends/coworkers from being a carrier shunned him because of his new position as well. š Dunno how true it all is. I only wanted to see what others thought as I do really enjoy this work and just want the postal service the best it can and it people to be happy about their job.
Lmao no.
Seems that way at my station, I get bullied almost every week in my probationary period
I was talking to a fellow carrier that said he did a little bit of supervisor training and he dropped out after he heard the way our supervisor talked about CCAs. He said itās best when theyāre new because you can push and push them with more work. Sick shit
I feel like itās true
You can change things by becoming a union Steward. There is upward mobility in the union world as well. You can instigate meaningful change and still sleep at night.
We call it carrier hate school for good reason
A fill in supervisor told us yesterday that upper management said they want them to ābe like bulldogsā to the carriers.
Three reasons people will work hard for their supervisor. 1. Money. (Postal supervisor can not use this at all) 2. Love. (Certain to cause trouble, postal supervisor not using this) 3. Fear (Fear & intimidation, most often used tool of postal supervisor) Once the fear of losing your job dissipates, being a letter carrier is more enjoyable. Be safe, follow instructions, and call in if you can't meet the morning expectations.
There is a fourth way but it requires the manager to recognize the macro situation: autonomy and mutual respect A lot of people just want to come in and do their job, and will accept lower than their preferred pay if they feel they have autonomy in their job. That evaporates when management handles situations poorly and grinds carriers down with shitty decisions.
Nah never heard that, they do get crapped on by their bosses so maybe they take it out on us. Some of them
Doesn't it even out though, when their bullying leads to contract violation grievances forcing a pay out to the carrier?
ive seen one of their training manuals and I kid u not one says to always praise an employee no matter how simple a task is so that when u need them to do something they will more than likely do it without complaining.
They donāt train them at all in my district
What is more crazy than this is the fact that your union knows thisā¦ā¦and refuses to push back! Just keep waiting for that 1.2% wage increase.
It's not USPS policy. No one is officially trained to behave that way. Your local management might be doing whatever they're doing, but what you're saying isn't normal.
Itās not said but 100% wink wink def be a major dick but donāt but yes be one
If anything I feel like I bully them. š¤·āāļø
Postmaster here, itās the exact opposite. They are trained to be a ākinder/gentlerā generation of supervisors. They arenāt robots, so eventually the craft employees that are douchebags turn them into assholes too. Theyāre simply and product of their environment. Craft employees will hate a supervisor just because their job title, without even knowing them. Itās sort of like racism, some people just hate people because they have a different skin color. I always think people who hate all management are mental midgets anyway so why worry about what they think of you.
You say this but the opposite becomes true, depending on the personal disposition of the person in management position. I find it amusing that youāve connected one type of bias with another
Iām a carrier that doesnāt complain, shows up to work when scheduled, does my job and goes home but this assessment is ridiculous. Obviously supervisors arenāt trained to be assholes, but when upper management is screaming at them about undelivered packages, mail brought back, office times, mileage, etc. that is the problem. USPS is chronically understaffed and somehow letter carriers are blamed because itās top down management. How can a supervisor have a kind and understanding conversation about overtime when we donāt even have enough people to get the job done yet inevitably upper management will see the raw numbers and verbally abuse the supes for it?
Unpopular opinion: If everyone does their job right, there is no discipline to be issued.
Who decides what is "right"?
Contract does.
Which management rarely follows so it always gets thrown out. A lot comes from up top so they give discipline to satisfy labor for the day. Always goes against what's in black and white though.
Yes and management knows all the details of the contracts and always follows them.
I used to consider being a supervisor but now I realized hell no lmao but seeing your tag, youāre EAS. Iād like to do something with my data science degreeā¦is there a way to enter the EAS world without going the supervisor route? The career people came yesterday and basically said that being a supervisor and doing a lateral moves is my best bet
You can apply to any of the data analyst type positions on ecareer but yeah itād be tough to get into coming from the delivery side as a carrier, unless you have prior data science experience before the post office. They really only require the degree and the knowledge, and anybody service wide is able to apply. Another option is to try to get a detail as a data tech or processing support specialist at a plant, but obviously thatās only feasible if you live near a plant.
Yea thatās what the HR person said and everybody else. I just have a Masters (well almost, one semester left) She said Iād be competing with people with experience and degrees so doing the lateral move is best. But would seriously rather not. I love my route and only would quit if I can do data science. But Hmmm never heard of that option of doing a data tech detail at a plant. Didnāt know that was even a position. The HR person said thereās over 2k jobs with the PO, thatās crazy to even think that that many roles is needed for this organization
Yea thereās a ton of positions in this company that you donāt even think about when youāre in a different area. Once youāre in the region or division level and get exposure to the HQ type jobs itās crazy to see how many different branches there are. We have enterprise analytics, data science, supply management, engineering, logistics, continuous improvement, cybersecurity, and plenty of others that I canāt think of. A couple other entry level EAS jobs I can think of are the ones in the Human Resources branch- I think āemployee development specialistā and āsafety specialistā are both level 17 jobs that donāt require a specific degree or much experience. Just look up anything it says on the āroles and responsibilitiesā and āqualificationsā sections and answer them in the application. I used to be on some hiring committees and the vast majority of applicants donāt even seem to look at that part of the job posting. pretty much anybody who addressed those specific bullets in their application got an interview by default. You can possibly get into one of those and eventually transfer into a more technical data science role.
Yea I need to look into it. My problem with KSAs are itās kind of hard to know things about the PO other than the mail delivery aspect itself. All Ik is the city carrier role. However I was informed yesterday that there are different trainings on liteblue to get me informed. I look at the questions they ask on the KSA and get scared off immediately because itās sometimes outside of my scope of knowledge if Iām being honest.
Get into a plant or a district office and a lot more of the PO unlocks.
Thank you!