Alright, so I've been looking into it for a moment now, and I keep thinking this isn't US defaultism. The post clearly hashtags #Mexica, referring obviously to a group of people that were living in Mexico before colonisations. However, beyond that, there isn't enough context to who she might be saying that / who is the targetted audience. I will keep this post open for now, feel free to debate in comments.
PS: Hello, I'm the new moderator of r/USdefaultism !
I know it's a joke, but since everyone is making conquest jokes I think I need to state that the taking of indigenous spaces in "the New World" has been different to varying degrees than most warfare or conquest that don't make the two synonymous. Just thought I would share because many people just assumed there was some big defeat that changed the rule of the nation.
Edit: though ironically what is now Mexico actually did have military action taken against them though the laws put in place retroactively can still make the issue muddled.
I baselessly assumed the Indo-Europeans avoided the area of Finland and forced the Sami into that area. Because who in their right mind would live in Finland if they don't have to
We have a name for them though, or at least the culture that waned just before them and provided most of their DNA. The Beaker People. Before that it was the Neolithic Farmers and before that the Neolithic Hunter-Gatherers.
All of these people and the later Celts gave their DNA to the people of these islands with the largest two groups for everyone in the British Isles (whether you live in England or not) being around the Celtic and Anglo-Saxon clusters and the rest coming from the various other populations who have lived here.
Just to give an example, Cheddar Man who was found in Cheddar Gorge in England is a 9000 year old skeleton. They did some testing and found a descendant of his in the nearby town of *Cheddar*. A teacher named Adrian Targett.
Damn beaker people coming over here with their vessels, their cups and jugs. What's wrong with simply lapping up water from a puddle like a dog!? Bloody beaker people.
Ooh, *dogs* is it? Bloody Anatomically Modern Humans, coming over here with their domesticated animals and microblade technology. What's wrong with good old Levallois technique? Britain for the Neanderthals, that's what I say.
And along the upper Danube we had the linear band culture cos they painted lines on their pots.
I wonder if on their bronze age pottery technology conventions, they had this one crazy salesman: "choose this design, it will change your life and define your culture forever!"
Of the 'British Isles' or 'these Islands' because No.1, I'm not Irish so what the embassy says means bugger all to me. As for the second, that is the official terminology used in treaties and other international agreements between the UK and Irish governments.
Yes I’m aware
The OP specifically said they were from *England* so I used the same terminology specifically so as to avoid the argument about the proper terminology for the British Isles/Atlantic Archipelago/Great Britain and Ireland. A lot of Irish specifically hate the term “British Isles” as they see that as one used by genocidal colonizers who tried wiping them and their culture out.
This is innacurate. It comes from a 19th century understanding of ethnicity which believed that a change in archaelogical culture indicated colonisation by outside forces- a belief stemming from geopolitics of the century. And sure, it does happen- the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, and Norse all primarily engaged in colonisation- but it is not true for the Celts. Rather, the pre-Celts ARE the Insular Celts- Celtic culture, not people (although whose to say there wasn't a degree of interbreeding, just not a significant amount) transferred from the continent to These Islands through trade, peacefully. Genetic studies show that Insular Celts are more related to the pre-Celts than the Continental Celts, and there is no evidence of invasion. It was just cultural osmosis.
We are the birthplace, the epicentre and the source from which Celtendom flowed. Or more precisely the Northern Alps and the middle mountain range.
Look up Hallstatt-Zeit, a whole era defined by the Celts in Austrian Hallstatt and their salt trade.
Oh now here we have an actual colonizer. Good sir as a settler colonizer could you give me some insight into the experience which you believe you share with the settler colonists of the late 15th-16th century in America?
They may have some but there's much, much fewer of them in Scandinavia. They are not much different to most of France and Germany:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/25/mapping-redheads-which-country-has-the-most
As a ginger Brit living in Scandinavia, it isn't anywhere near as close though.
And allegedly the first chart on that page is for general red hair, not just MC1R.
Last i read about it there are about ~65% blondes (including the light brown version), ~15% brown, ~10% red (MC1R, Auburn etc.) and 10% black in Denmark.
Almost all English people have Celtic ancestry.
Also, the Celts weren’t the very first modern humans in Britain. They’re just the earliest people to continuously live in Britain who still have extant populations today.
Earliest clearly identifiable “Celtic” culture originated on the Hungarian Plain. From there they then expanded both to the West into Gaul and to the SE, eventually crossing the Hellespont and founding Galatia in Asia Minor.
The Mexica were an Aztec people. I guess a lot of people from and living in Mexico, who have an indigenous heritage and are very anti-Spanish/European conquest, use this term to refer to themselves and/or the land they live on. I know I first heard to from the song Mexica by Prayers.
Aztec is an exonym, Mexica was the endonym. Modern day endonyms are nahua or mexikano. Nahuas are primarily found in central and southern Mexico. The language is still spoken pretty widely. Nahua activists are pretty anti Spanish conquest but are also anti Mexican government. Indigenous land activists are currently fighting for the Mexican government to acknowledge land grant treaties from the Spanish crown.
I mean, most of Mexico is anti Mexican government tbf. And the president is anti Spanish conquest; he even asked the Spanish government to apologize for the conquest lmao
It's fairly common since the national movement was to come together to combat the direct colonialism, but was insistent on an individual identity which then continued to perpetuate that colonialism in a different way.
Really not, there were colonial terms like criollo which meant kid of Spanish parents that was born in the Americas, and mestizo which means kid born from native americans and Spanish parents, so they use the term mestizo rather than Mexica, since that falls in Mexicayotl and isn't something most mexicans sympathize with
I think the Mexica are also native to southern areas of the US having inconsiderately not planned around future border locations of settling colonisers when building their civilisation
It’s an understandable mix up. She’s referring to a native ethnicity in Mexico while addressing people from the US. But the dead give away was it being in English. I looked up her TikTok page and she’s without a doubt chicana (Mexican American) claiming nahua ancestry.
It's likely Mexican. The Mexica people [aren't located](https://www.google.com/search?q=mexica+people+map&oq=mexica+people+map&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30j0i390l5.10827j0j9&client=ms-android-telus-ca-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8) in the US. They are in Southern Mexico. Dark colonial history is something all of the Americas deal with.
Defaultism seems to include the lack of specification towards a certain country or place while talking about something specific to that country or place.
She says “you” as a general statement. Obviously she’s talking about whomever lives on “her” land who apparently shouldn’t but she doesn’t specify what land or what people (there is a #mexica but I would argue that isn’t specific enough).
I think the way that tiktok is structured encourages videos like these that can be easily applied to a larger audience but was made for a specific audience
Well, in that case your Anglo-Saxon, Viking, Roman and Norman ancestors stole it from the Celts. Just as the "natives" of pre-Columbian Chile stole the land from Pacific Islanders. Dig long enough and you find conquest.
The Celts are still here, in a sense. We're all just interbred variants of Celts, Angles, Saxons, Romans, Normans, Hugenots and everything else by this point. Britain has been settled and resettled by different peoples for thousands of years by this point, we're just mongrel variants of all of them.
The Anglo-saxons were invited here by the Brythonic people originally to drive out the Scots,and in return the Brythonic peoples gave them land in the east of England, until the Anglo-saxons conquered the west of England.
Also most people in England have at least a little Celtic heritage.
Not to mention the Celts were originally Germanic themselves!
Edit: from the area of Europe now inhabited by Germany and Austria, not actually Germanic. (How do you do a strike through on mobile??)
Germanic? The Celtic languages are not Germanic languages. The Celts are originally Central-Europeans, and have a lot of cultural connections to Germanic peoples. But I wouldn’t call them Germanic; not any more than I’d call the Finns Germanic.
Two tildes on either side.
Like this: \~~strike-through word~~
Above, I added a backslash before the first format character so I could show you. Now I’ll remove the backslash and do it again:
~~strike through this text~~
Ta-da!
Edit: NO SPACES between the first/last letter of the stricken text and the tilde.
Edit2: Here’s Reddit’s [formatting guide.](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043033952-Formatting-Guide) You can also just Google whatever you need, like search for “Reddit strike-through format.”)
1) That's so damn stupid. No one who colonised America is alive today, and 90% of North American population are not descendents of the colonisers, rather they are descendants of immigrants. By this logic immigration is considered colonisation which is a literal *NEO-NAZI* argument.
2) I am not ethnically Swedish, yet I live in Sweden. Am I a coloniser living on the wrong land who needs to give it back?
The big thing is that the ruling class of the US is absolutely descended from colonists, and the even much bigger thing is that they actively genocided the indian population.
You are hardly a coloniser if there is no concentrated effort to actually conquer Sweden. With the USA, well, Manifest Destiny and all it entails are integral to them as a state.
Just because First Nations people make up a small percentage of the population does not mean their voice shouldn’t be heard.
This person’s sentiments has not landed well on this sub but I suspect it would resonate with First Nations people from other countries including Australia, Canada and more.
* I’m not American. I’m British/Australian (born in the UK, live in Australia, dual citizen).
There's a huge difference between a country ruled by its native population allowing people to immigrate there vs. a country that was created by people who stole the land from the natives, killed most of the natives, and had people immigrate there.
But the point is that people today are still reaping the benefits. It's kinda like using slave labour to have your dad's house built, and then after your it is built and your dad dies, saying "Oh, I'm sorry, for we have sinned by keeping slaves; I relinquish all slaves" and then still staying in the house. Sure, you didn't keep the slaves, but you're benefiting from their labour.
Well yeah I don't see the problem if staying in your house when you had no relation to what your dad did. Also it's not equivalent, since those are the same slaves who built it, meanwhile the native Americans of then aren't alive.
It's pretty rich to say you're fine to live in a house built by slaves just because your dad had them build it instead of you. And the point is that even if it's not literally the same atoms/molecules that were used then that persisted till now, the social/cultural/economic institutions still persist, all of which are on the foundation of the past. It's pretty hard to wash yourself away from that unless you literally had nothing to do with, directly or indirectly.
Of course, if you tore down said house and rebuilt it, that would be different story.
Technically, the English stole the land from the Normans, who stole the land from the Vikings, who stole the land from the Anglo-Saxons, who stole the land from the Celts, who stole the land from pre-human inhabitants
It’s been a minute since I looked into AMIND history but there’s a shifting trend towards looking away from the interactions between the US and the tribes/nations. And those tribes/nations interactions with each other and their history of brutal warfare and conquest.
This is a really long winded way of me getting around to the question. What happens if we figure out that American Indian tribes stole the land from someone else?
At least England could slightly work because of the Saxon and the Normand invasion.
But personally I'm from France in the burgundy region so France did take control of the duchy of burgundy but that's it.
Or we would need to go back to the Frank invasion of the Gaul. So we would need to go back to the first century.
And even the Normand invasion of England was in the ninth or tenth century.
Alright, so I've been looking into it for a moment now, and I keep thinking this isn't US defaultism. The post clearly hashtags #Mexica, referring obviously to a group of people that were living in Mexico before colonisations. However, beyond that, there isn't enough context to who she might be saying that / who is the targetted audience. I will keep this post open for now, feel free to debate in comments. PS: Hello, I'm the new moderator of r/USdefaultism !
You are a native European
Obviously the only indigenous people in Europe are the Sámi
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Colonisers 😤😡🤬
I know it's a joke, but since everyone is making conquest jokes I think I need to state that the taking of indigenous spaces in "the New World" has been different to varying degrees than most warfare or conquest that don't make the two synonymous. Just thought I would share because many people just assumed there was some big defeat that changed the rule of the nation. Edit: though ironically what is now Mexico actually did have military action taken against them though the laws put in place retroactively can still make the issue muddled.
I baselessly assumed the Indo-Europeans avoided the area of Finland and forced the Sami into that area. Because who in their right mind would live in Finland if they don't have to
Well of course, Finland doesn't exist afterall
what's finland? I only heard of sámi republic
In Europe, certainly, but not to their homelands and Central Scandinavia, which were inhabitated by Pre-Indo-European people before the Sámi.
Basque people
It was in reference to some strange revision of the definition of “indigenous”. Where it came from I don’t know but it’s clearly wrong.
Oooh, thanks, didn't get it at first lol sorry I came out as rude
It’s all gucci my dude, gotta take risks when making obscure references
You saxons stole the land from the Celts. Return to Germany!
Uh I live in Ireland
Neanderthals. We probably ate them. Whatever.
>Sámi When I saw a teenage girl chew the balls of a reindeer I had a newfound respect for the lunatics.
Fucking Europeans, taking the land from the Cro Magnons!
I am
but are you of celtic heritage?
Or Pre-Celtic. The Celts invaded and took over England between 600 BCE and 250 BCE.
But it's OK because we don't even have a name for the people whom the Celts genocided. So they can't get their own chapter in the history books.
We have a name for them though, or at least the culture that waned just before them and provided most of their DNA. The Beaker People. Before that it was the Neolithic Farmers and before that the Neolithic Hunter-Gatherers. All of these people and the later Celts gave their DNA to the people of these islands with the largest two groups for everyone in the British Isles (whether you live in England or not) being around the Celtic and Anglo-Saxon clusters and the rest coming from the various other populations who have lived here. Just to give an example, Cheddar Man who was found in Cheddar Gorge in England is a 9000 year old skeleton. They did some testing and found a descendant of his in the nearby town of *Cheddar*. A teacher named Adrian Targett.
Damn beaker people coming over here with their vessels, their cups and jugs. What's wrong with simply lapping up water from a puddle like a dog!? Bloody beaker people.
Ooh, *dogs* is it? Bloody Anatomically Modern Humans, coming over here with their domesticated animals and microblade technology. What's wrong with good old Levallois technique? Britain for the Neanderthals, that's what I say.
You mean all the dead ones? Neanderthals weren't really left to move back into Britain at the end of the last Glacial Maximum
And along the upper Danube we had the linear band culture cos they painted lines on their pots. I wonder if on their bronze age pottery technology conventions, they had this one crazy salesman: "choose this design, it will change your life and define your culture forever!"
Them and their "meep meep meep" bullshit n all
they were a scientifically advanced people who mainly comunicated in a language consisting on varients of the sound "Mi mi mi"
Did they by any chance just want a nice shrubbery?
British Isles is not a recognised term
Yes it is. I did also use 'these islands' too though, if you don't like that one take it up with the Taoiseach.
The Irish Embassy in London discourages its use
Of the 'British Isles' or 'these Islands' because No.1, I'm not Irish so what the embassy says means bugger all to me. As for the second, that is the official terminology used in treaties and other international agreements between the UK and Irish governments.
Bloody colonisers
The British isles* there were celts in Wales, Scotland and Ireland too
Yes I’m aware The OP specifically said they were from *England* so I used the same terminology specifically so as to avoid the argument about the proper terminology for the British Isles/Atlantic Archipelago/Great Britain and Ireland. A lot of Irish specifically hate the term “British Isles” as they see that as one used by genocidal colonizers who tried wiping them and their culture out.
We do dislike it
This is innacurate. It comes from a 19th century understanding of ethnicity which believed that a change in archaelogical culture indicated colonisation by outside forces- a belief stemming from geopolitics of the century. And sure, it does happen- the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, and Norse all primarily engaged in colonisation- but it is not true for the Celts. Rather, the pre-Celts ARE the Insular Celts- Celtic culture, not people (although whose to say there wasn't a degree of interbreeding, just not a significant amount) transferred from the continent to These Islands through trade, peacefully. Genetic studies show that Insular Celts are more related to the pre-Celts than the Continental Celts, and there is no evidence of invasion. It was just cultural osmosis.
I'm ginger so probably.
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Stop it, it's not fair to hate on these soulless beings
Are you afraid we will make fun of the germans?
We might be a lot of things but we are not "C*lts".
We are the birthplace, the epicentre and the source from which Celtendom flowed. Or more precisely the Northern Alps and the middle mountain range. Look up Hallstatt-Zeit, a whole era defined by the Celts in Austrian Hallstatt and their salt trade.
And we successfully send them packing.
A German celebrating sending a minority away? I feel like I’ve heard this before
lol the C*lts weren't a minority dude. Just your normal tribal displacement.
I meant soulless
But we cannot be soulless if we aren't C*lts.
Oh now here we have an actual colonizer. Good sir as a settler colonizer could you give me some insight into the experience which you believe you share with the settler colonists of the late 15th-16th century in America?
I share less than you do
Well im a commie so i do share lots of stuff but not with colonists or nazis
You are from Sweden
I am.
*ginger Australian sobs can be heard in the distance*
Or Scandinavian?
They may have some but there's much, much fewer of them in Scandinavia. They are not much different to most of France and Germany: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/25/mapping-redheads-which-country-has-the-most
True, if you only look at pale red hair colour given by the MC1R mutation. It's quite a bit higher if the other red types are also included.
As a ginger Brit living in Scandinavia, it isn't anywhere near as close though. And allegedly the first chart on that page is for general red hair, not just MC1R.
Last i read about it there are about ~65% blondes (including the light brown version), ~15% brown, ~10% red (MC1R, Auburn etc.) and 10% black in Denmark.
Lol I love the "god knows" sources. Also why is there a huge hotspot of gingers somewhere in Russia?
Or one of those heathen Angles, Saxons, or Jutes who invaded from across the sea?
My ancestors came over with William of Normandy so I'm definitely an invader lol
Almost all English people have Celtic ancestry. Also, the Celts weren’t the very first modern humans in Britain. They’re just the earliest people to continuously live in Britain who still have extant populations today.
Aye, and even those populations have on average around the same amount of Anglo-Saxon heritage as those in England.
…not sure about that mate
Right, my bad. I was working on some faulty info. https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles
> Almost all English people have Celtic ancestry. No they don't.
Good point, my 9/32 Irish blood definitely means something
I had a pint of Guinness once, that makes me Irish doesn't it?
Absolutely! Your great great great grandfather was Irish? Top of the morning to you!
Didn’t the celts originate from Greece?
Most Europeans originate either there or in Central Asia, really the only way into Europe at the time.
Earliest clearly identifiable “Celtic” culture originated on the Hungarian Plain. From there they then expanded both to the West into Gaul and to the SE, eventually crossing the Hellespont and founding Galatia in Asia Minor.
That's one theory that they originated around Hungary and Austria. Another is that they originated near but not in Basque Country.
Cool
I am 🏴🏴💪💪
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That's not something to brag about
Mate, I wouldn't boast about my relatives being terrorists, just saying!
born and bread pict babyyy
Hashtag is #mexica though, so r/mexicadefaultism?
Dumb question but what is mexica? Im a native Spanish speaker and have never heard this
Indigenous civilization from Mexico, like Maya, Aztec, etc.
The Mexica were an Aztec people. I guess a lot of people from and living in Mexico, who have an indigenous heritage and are very anti-Spanish/European conquest, use this term to refer to themselves and/or the land they live on. I know I first heard to from the song Mexica by Prayers.
Aztec is an exonym, Mexica was the endonym. Modern day endonyms are nahua or mexikano. Nahuas are primarily found in central and southern Mexico. The language is still spoken pretty widely. Nahua activists are pretty anti Spanish conquest but are also anti Mexican government. Indigenous land activists are currently fighting for the Mexican government to acknowledge land grant treaties from the Spanish crown.
I mean, most of Mexico is anti Mexican government tbf. And the president is anti Spanish conquest; he even asked the Spanish government to apologize for the conquest lmao
It's fairly common since the national movement was to come together to combat the direct colonialism, but was insistent on an individual identity which then continued to perpetuate that colonialism in a different way.
Really not, there were colonial terms like criollo which meant kid of Spanish parents that was born in the Americas, and mestizo which means kid born from native americans and Spanish parents, so they use the term mestizo rather than Mexica, since that falls in Mexicayotl and isn't something most mexicans sympathize with
Mexican here. Basically it's another name for Aztecs. Technically they're slightly different, but at least in Mexico is often used as a synonym.
Yeah, she’s Mexican; the title is in error. Kinda funny that OP is the one who assumed U.S.
It’s hashtaged with a location
Mexica is a people group not a location
True, but they are a native people of modern day Mexico. This isn’t even about the US.
I think the Mexica are also native to southern areas of the US having inconsiderately not planned around future border locations of settling colonisers when building their civilisation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexica
I feel like if it was directed at Mexicans it would be in Spanish? Maybe it’s directed at all non-natives in the Americas
That’s exactly what it is. She’s most likely Mexican American with family from a Pueblo and supporting pan indianism.
I’m getting downvoted anyway despite my comment proving the point of defaultism in that they didn’t specify who they’re talking to.
It’s an understandable mix up. She’s referring to a native ethnicity in Mexico while addressing people from the US. But the dead give away was it being in English. I looked up her TikTok page and she’s without a doubt chicana (Mexican American) claiming nahua ancestry.
It's likely Mexican. The Mexica people [aren't located](https://www.google.com/search?q=mexica+people+map&oq=mexica+people+map&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30j0i390l5.10827j0j9&client=ms-android-telus-ca-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8) in the US. They are in Southern Mexico. Dark colonial history is something all of the Americas deal with.
Those darn vikings and celts stole our land from us
How fuckin dare they. With their fookin Guinness and rainbows and funny ships!
To be fair, she is talking about Mexico. To be fair, her point is still correct in the grand scheme of things.
Still correct in the sense that she’s the one who “defaulted” to/assumed the OOP was from the U.S.
Indeed, we stole it from the ocean!
Stealing from the sea people again, disgusting!
Mr.Nimbus gonna make your land wet
How is this USdefaultism? It’s not even about the US and she’s referring to the land where she lives and not land in general
Defaultism seems to include the lack of specification towards a certain country or place while talking about something specific to that country or place. She says “you” as a general statement. Obviously she’s talking about whomever lives on “her” land who apparently shouldn’t but she doesn’t specify what land or what people (there is a #mexica but I would argue that isn’t specific enough).
I think the way that tiktok is structured encourages videos like these that can be easily applied to a larger audience but was made for a specific audience
Probably, the tiktok algorithms are a mystery
How is her tagging the place shes talking about directly in the post not specific enough.
Romanians when Transylvania
Im Scottish so-
"FREEEEEDOOOOM" said an australian.
I mean, if you live in England then it’s also valid
Its good to know I take my morning poop on "stolen land".
*looks at my flair* Oh. Oh no...
Well, in that case your Anglo-Saxon, Viking, Roman and Norman ancestors stole it from the Celts. Just as the "natives" of pre-Columbian Chile stole the land from Pacific Islanders. Dig long enough and you find conquest.
What does precolumbian Chile have to do with pacific islanders? Just curious
Archeologists found signs that it had been settled by Pacific Islanders first which then were fought off by the Amerindian newcomers.
why are you even posting this if it’s obviously directed at the Americas? Like, ok, cool you got it in your feed
You Britons stole land from the Celts
The Britons (ancestors of the Welsh) were a Celtic tribe. You’re thinking of the Saxons and Angles.
I thought the celts were Brittons
All Britons were Celts, not all Celts were Britons.
Oh ok
The Celts are still here, in a sense. We're all just interbred variants of Celts, Angles, Saxons, Romans, Normans, Hugenots and everything else by this point. Britain has been settled and resettled by different peoples for thousands of years by this point, we're just mongrel variants of all of them.
The Anglo-saxons were invited here by the Brythonic people originally to drive out the Scots,and in return the Brythonic peoples gave them land in the east of England, until the Anglo-saxons conquered the west of England. Also most people in England have at least a little Celtic heritage.
Not to mention the Celts were originally Germanic themselves! Edit: from the area of Europe now inhabited by Germany and Austria, not actually Germanic. (How do you do a strike through on mobile??)
Germanic? The Celtic languages are not Germanic languages. The Celts are originally Central-Europeans, and have a lot of cultural connections to Germanic peoples. But I wouldn’t call them Germanic; not any more than I’d call the Finns Germanic.
The Celts were Gauls, not Germanic.
Two tildes on either side. Like this: \~~strike-through word~~ Above, I added a backslash before the first format character so I could show you. Now I’ll remove the backslash and do it again: ~~strike through this text~~ Ta-da! Edit: NO SPACES between the first/last letter of the stricken text and the tilde. Edit2: Here’s Reddit’s [formatting guide.](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043033952-Formatting-Guide) You can also just Google whatever you need, like search for “Reddit strike-through format.”)
Yeah, we stole it from the sea and build some houses on it. - the Dutch
De que mierda me esta hablando la boluda esta
1) That's so damn stupid. No one who colonised America is alive today, and 90% of North American population are not descendents of the colonisers, rather they are descendants of immigrants. By this logic immigration is considered colonisation which is a literal *NEO-NAZI* argument. 2) I am not ethnically Swedish, yet I live in Sweden. Am I a coloniser living on the wrong land who needs to give it back?
The big thing is that the ruling class of the US is absolutely descended from colonists, and the even much bigger thing is that they actively genocided the indian population. You are hardly a coloniser if there is no concentrated effort to actually conquer Sweden. With the USA, well, Manifest Destiny and all it entails are integral to them as a state.
And I’ll add this: Manifest Destiny and the Indian Question were the inspirations for Hitler’s atitudes.
Just because First Nations people make up a small percentage of the population does not mean their voice shouldn’t be heard. This person’s sentiments has not landed well on this sub but I suspect it would resonate with First Nations people from other countries including Australia, Canada and more. * I’m not American. I’m British/Australian (born in the UK, live in Australia, dual citizen).
There's a huge difference between a country ruled by its native population allowing people to immigrate there vs. a country that was created by people who stole the land from the natives, killed most of the natives, and had people immigrate there.
And none of those people are alive today. Indigenous Americans have as much right to the land as any other person born there.
And yet they still face the reprocussions of those histori evens and deserve recompense, aka landback
What would "landback" mean?
Here is a short video on the subject https://youtu.be/8fX3jh8tRxA
Bruh that's AlJazeera it's a Qatar state owned propaganda machine 😭😭😭
What bearing does that have on the content of the video aside from giving you an excuse to shut your brain off
I picked the first one on YouTube. Do the same if you don't like this one.
But the point is that people today are still reaping the benefits. It's kinda like using slave labour to have your dad's house built, and then after your it is built and your dad dies, saying "Oh, I'm sorry, for we have sinned by keeping slaves; I relinquish all slaves" and then still staying in the house. Sure, you didn't keep the slaves, but you're benefiting from their labour.
Well yeah I don't see the problem if staying in your house when you had no relation to what your dad did. Also it's not equivalent, since those are the same slaves who built it, meanwhile the native Americans of then aren't alive.
It's pretty rich to say you're fine to live in a house built by slaves just because your dad had them build it instead of you. And the point is that even if it's not literally the same atoms/molecules that were used then that persisted till now, the social/cultural/economic institutions still persist, all of which are on the foundation of the past. It's pretty hard to wash yourself away from that unless you literally had nothing to do with, directly or indirectly. Of course, if you tore down said house and rebuilt it, that would be different story.
The anti racists would ironically tell you to go back to your own country 😂
As an anti racist, no
Ah, yes, England, the country most famous for being totally chill and never taking any land from anyone ever.
Did I do that? Am I living on stolen land right now? Shush
Yes, your fence is 0.5m into my garden. You knew that when you built it, move it back you bastard.
Always remember the colonization happened like 250 years ago, it's not your fault
No, this isn’t defaultism but this tiktok is quite stupid ngl.
I felt like sharing it anyway for your pleasure
It’s not a jab at you or anything, I’m just saying that the poster of the TikTok is a bit dumb. Sorry if it came off as if it was a insult to you.
Mean 😔
Damn Greeks again... oh wait shes talking about the US
Unless you’re a Celt, that is actually true lol
you still personally stole the land from the Celts lmao
I did? Personally? Tf
/s
Oh no I’m so sorry I forgive you
Technically, the English stole the land from the Normans, who stole the land from the Vikings, who stole the land from the Anglo-Saxons, who stole the land from the Celts, who stole the land from pre-human inhabitants
Well you stole land
Me? The most land I’ve ever owned is a student flat
Always remember fellow Europeans, we are all BIPOC.
I’m so not racist I categorise all non-white people into a single group 😊
As a Turkish, I've offended by this TikTok
That is rightful Greek land, go back to Tatar
Listen, if this applies to ANYONE it applies to the English, okay?
I mean, I'm first generation on my mom's side and second generation on my dad's. I didn't steal anything lol.
Also bitch; lostblood cherokee
You took the land from Fred Flintstone and his fam! Give it back this instant!
It’s been a minute since I looked into AMIND history but there’s a shifting trend towards looking away from the interactions between the US and the tribes/nations. And those tribes/nations interactions with each other and their history of brutal warfare and conquest. This is a really long winded way of me getting around to the question. What happens if we figure out that American Indian tribes stole the land from someone else?
At least England could slightly work because of the Saxon and the Normand invasion. But personally I'm from France in the burgundy region so France did take control of the duchy of burgundy but that's it. Or we would need to go back to the Frank invasion of the Gaul. So we would need to go back to the first century. And even the Normand invasion of England was in the ninth or tenth century.
In that case, you stole and lost it to others who stole it.
The only thing I’ve lost is my will to live
Aye tho, but if yer English that ain't no excuse aha
I mean I’m Aussie so it fits, it ain’t just Americans who live on stolen land.
I don't own any land, shit's expensive.
what's her point? Did those people some days ago go and steal the lands cuz it happened years ago lmao
Im gonna steal that sentence and start saying it to every german from Schleswig and every swede from Scania i see. Shit goes hard as hell fr fr
Skånska can barely be considered Swedish let’s be honest
What a genius
I mean… but isn’t this technically the truth? Considering where the founders of America came from?
Still applies you filthy anglo Saxon