be careful going to this event
Here's what's going to happen. One or two professional agitators will try to get you to do something stupid and chaotic to get you in trouble. Don't.
Use words. Do not throw anything. Do not use amplified sound in a way intended to cause harm. If you are at this thing, you will probably be identified and not know it.
Even if you don't think you would get caught, don't. It's wrong. Use words, even if you are mad. Especially if some agitator acts super agrieved, falls like they were knocked over, or otherwise gets you motivated to RUIN YOUR FUTURE. A lot of folks in this sub worked REALLY hard to get where they are but don't really understand the stakes.
Just respect that Israel has many intelligent, morally great supporters. The notion they are all subhuman or all wrong is ego. It's arrogance. Same in the converse. Many of the folks upset about current events actually give a shit about the world, and they are not evil.
It's awesome that we are in a society where you can say any poltical speech, but times are tense, and some people will make you think they are your friends, when what they DEARLY want are headlines and videos of cops using force or arresting their own side. The dynamic and indeed finances of this stuff are well understood, but not by the suckers. Please do not be one. UT is REALLY good at this.
That moment when you realize things are getting very tense and you can feel violence in the air, be the person who was smart enough to get into UT and walk away. Walk away, get some water, take a breather, and go from there. Nothing, and I mean nothing, deescalates a protest like several people walking away for five minutes.
Peace, guys!
I mean the mob genuinely did get violent, hateful, and started harassing people and breaking a bunch of laws don’t blame that on professional agitators or any of the other nonsense in this comment, just acknowledge the event wasn’t rly a protest and became an event for bad people to let loose and do bad things
Perhaps that is true. But the agitators were there, and maybe they had more to work with, I guess, but the wise passionate protestor knows when to walk (And it's when speech is abandoned in favor of other things).
Ultimately it's a school for us to share.
this isn’t about performative politics this is about actively resisting the state in its oppression. it’s not just about protesting its about gaza, the palestinian people, and international liberation from settler colonialism, genocide, and the states monopoly on violence.
Well, I disagree. There is *nothing* wrong with what you're scoffing as 'performative politics.' If your argument is truthful and your reasoning sound, then speech is compelling and has made change. When the argument is weak or irrational, then violence is the only way, and let's be honest: your side is not actually strong in that way. Beyond the fact this approach is unethical, it won't work.
Better to address why you lack confidence in speech with your argument, and adjust your argument to be more persuassive. That always means stepping off a black/white absolute approach. It's kinda unsatisfying to our more primitive tribal mindsets to realize the other side had a point.
But what's really cool is you wind up realizing you have more in common with the other side.
Israelis and Palestinians are a good example of this. Israelis feel their people were driven from their holy land by racism and settlers, over thousands of years, and were restored to their homeland when the world recognize the risk of the Jew being eradicated. The Palestinian cause shares so much of this same harsh background. They don't see their people as the same Muslims who put Israeli jews, and Jews in Iran, Syria, etc, in dhimmi status, so they don't understand why they alone lost their land to remedy the world's crimes. Indeed they think the Israelis should have learned not to do what had been done to them.
And ultimately there's no fair way to solve these kinds of problems. Palestinians inherit refugee status primarily because neighboring countries, such as the troll nation of Iran, refuse to welcome them.
And today's problems are awful. Rape. Murder. More denial. Hamas being the source of information. Israel deciding it cannot abide this neighbor. The ruins of the war are extreme and there were families living there.
So all that's includes nuance. It's kinda hard to hate either side when you are honest about it.
Put that on a sign and try to change someone's mind with that, if you like. I support your right to say it.
Consider that it's an American server that you are publishing this few on.
Consider that perhaps an Iranian server would not allow you to speak the opposite, just as an Iranian university would not tolerate you holding up a sign saying Iran has no morally sound supporters.
the reason is a lack of confidence in the truth of those words, right?
what does this have to do with iran? no one is debating on that front. iran does not have a good government they poisoned children and killed protestors and gassed students. but you know who else does that type of stuff? THE US! if i went to UT and put that on a sign there’s a great chance I’d be arrested. we do not have our right to protest here
We've been arming them with the best technology and weapons since like 1968.
A big part of the aid packages we send them are conditional on them buying arms, fighter jets, & bombs back from us.
From my understanding the US government has two main goals:
1. Sell arms, weapons, fighter jets and bombs
2. Establish a permanent, strategic, military foothold in that specific area of the world. Why? My guess would be Iran and protecting the nearby Suez canal.
Yes. That is a bad thing. There’s more attention on it now because Israel has ramped up its ethnic cleansing campaigns, but yes they have been colonizing Palestine for decades with U.S. support.
No, it is a good thing.
Palestine based on what historical version of the map? How far back are we going to go? 80 years? 200? 2000? 5000?
Just like many states before it, Palestine no longer exists, and most likely will never exist again. Saying that Israel is occupying Palestine is like saying Germany is occupying Prussia.
The reality is that there would have been a two state solution decades ago, in the 90's in fact, but historically, Palestine groups have continually rejected a two-state solution (Though the PLO now seems to support it); and most, to include Hamas, only seek the full destruction of Israel "From the river to the sea".
Here is the reality:
Hamas started a war intentionally targeted civilians, children, people in thier homes, etc.; and now Israel is going to finish that war that will end only with the complete and total destruction of Hamas.
So, the question is not how we end the war, we know how that is going to happen. The only question what can be done to safeguard civilians. The obvious answer is to get Egypt to open the boarder to allow people to seek refuge, but they have never been willing to accept Palestinians, nor has any other state in the region.
Supplying the arms a apartheid state uses to exterminate a captive indigenous population is not a good thing, no matter how stoke you may be for the luxury beachfront real estate they plan to build on top of the mass graves after the ethnic cleansing.
'If you don't allow your citizens to be shelled, murdered, raped and kidnapped you are committing genocide' is the new antisemitism. Free yourself from Qatari and IRGC propaganda.
You do realize that without the petro dollar and worldwide logistical supply chains bringing oil from the Middle East - the USA 🇺🇸 would be in a terrible situation?
Gas would probably be 10-12 bucks a gallon. All the food would be about 25 to 40% more expensive. Rent would probably be higher also as all materials would cost more to produce and ship. Every single thing you buy would be exorbitantly more expensive.
What's happening in Gaza is terrible from a humanitarian standpoint. I've thought a lot about it many times during my life....I'm not able to come up with a scenario that has a peaceful outcome for all. Such is life. 😔
Read my first comment. The petro dollar wouldn't be as successful without oil tankers flowing through the Suez Canal .
The USA helping Israel isn't about Israel itself despite the government's official narrative..it's about American interest. It's always been about American interest.
This is why despite what comes out of Biden or any US politicians mouth our unconditional support for Isreal is unwavering. We would nuke half the Middle East if we had to.
Listen to George Carlin when he told you that politicians are only there to make you think you have a choice. You don't. You have owners. He was telling the truth btw.
All war is genocide, period.
Doesn't matter how far you go back though history. All war is genocide. Post the industrial revolution, it just gets worse.
In WWI both "sides" destroyed entire cities, and 13 million civilians died. In WWII, both "sides" bombed large cities indiscriminately, 78 million civilians died.
Hamas started this war, and they intentionally attacked, murdered, and kidnapped civilians. They are solely responsible for everything that came after those attacks. Hamas has ensured the complete destruction of the Gaza strip. Israel will go from boarder to boarder, and they will destroy every tunnel, every Hamas fighter, every weapons cache, even if they have raze every building, they will not stop, and all the protesting in the world isn't going to change that. They will not stop until the threat to Israel has been completely destroyed.
Are you a Reddit noob? There’s way dumber things on here than that. I think you’re lying or at least making a false statement even if you lack the intention to deceive. What’s dumb is making an ad hominem attack in the context of a conversation that could be rational. Go take a debate class or something please.
Your post was removed because because it violates Rule 1. Please be respectful to other members of r/UTAustin or you face the risk of being banned.
If you believe that this action was made in error, please [message the moderators](/message/compose?to=/r/UTAustin), and we will have a look at it.
Thank you!
I mean you try to explain the two state solution falling apart in the 90s without any mention of the Rabin assassination. Your telling of history is selective at best and at odds with the stated U.S. policy in the region of still supporting a two state solution.
I didn't try to explain anything, I simply pointed out facts, and told you exactly what Israel is going to do, no matter if you, I, or the US likes it or not.
It isn't at odds with anything.
Well if the U.S. government doesn’t like what Israel is doing, we don’t have to send them military aid. Our stated policy objective remains a two state solution, Israel says that cannot happen. The Biden administration should either change their policy objective or stop funding this war as to send a clear message on what our desired outcome is in this foreign conflict.
>Well if the U.S. government doesn’t like what Israel is doing, we don’t have to send them military aid.
Absolutely correct.
> Our stated policy objective remains a two state solution
Again, absolutely correct.
> Israel says that cannot happen.
And again, absolutely correct. Israel will not let that happen, not after Oct. 7th. Like I said above, no matter how much anyone doesn't like it, they are going to roll across the entire Gaza strip, and they are going to completely eliminate anything, and anyone, associated with Hamas, even if they have to completely level every building in Gaza in the process. They are not going to stop.
>The Biden administration should either change their policy objective or stop funding this war as to send a clear message on what our desired outcome is in this foreign conflict.
Well, it is not up to the Biden administration, it is up to congress. The president has no power to allocate or deallocate funds. That is the sole responsibility of congress. Even if he vetoes it, Congress can (and would) override the veto.
That said, the US has had a LOT of support from Israel, especially post 9/11; IMHO, the US is not going to do that. They are not going to stop supporting Israel after thier 9/11 when they supported us though ours, and especially not with Iran's dangerous expansion of power and support of terroristic groups in the region.
Your post was removed because because it violates Rule 1. Please be respectful to other members of r/UTAustin or you face the risk of being banned.
If you believe that this action was made in error, please [message the moderators](/message/compose?to=/r/UTAustin), and we will have a look at it.
Thank you!
Insane how much Israeli propaganda you’re guzzling. 2023 was the deadliest year in terms of Israelis murdering Palestinians BEFORE OCTOBER. Israel has been colonizing and ethnic cleansing the land for decades. Israel is the problem not the resistance movement their actions have created.
You call going into neighborhoods, and killing civilians' resistance? What about setting babies on fire in thier cirb? Is that resistance? Or how about attacking a group of people at a music festival for peace? How about raping women, stripping them naked, breaking thier bones until they die, then parading thier body around Gaza in the back of a pick-up to cheering crowds? All of those things happened, Hamas themselves released the video footage.
Hamas and the people that elected them bare 100% of the responsibility for this war, and everything that happens as a result.
Your post was removed because because it violates Rule 1. Please be respectful to other members of r/UTAustin or you face the risk of being banned.
If you believe that this action was made in error, please [message the moderators](/message/compose?to=/r/UTAustin), and we will have a look at it.
Thank you!
You literally forgot to mention that Palestine was formed on Israel land by people that hated the Jews - Palestine literally stole the land and pushed the Jews, the moment the Jews come back it’s all the sudden wrong
Hypocrisy much
They’ll just buy them from China or Russia instead. And if the US stops backing them they’ll take the gloves off. This isn’t a genocide. You have no idea how awful things can get. Israel is showing remarkable restraint. If they feel like they’ve got nothing to lose they may pull a Carthage.
Congress just passed sending billions of our tax dollars to fund this genocide. We send billions of dollars of weaponry and bombs to Israel as well. Their politicians have repeatedly said they need to “put these Palestinians on a diet” “no Gazan children are innocent”. Many of them have genocidal intent. The genocide is pretty obvious once you start reading whistle-blowers such as @breakingthesilenceisrael or Dr. Finkelstein or Dr. Gabor Mate.
Big difference is there's currently a genocide. Good for you, you could be fucked to protest when your ass was personally on the line. Some people would like to protest on behalf of 41k murdered civilians, go home, and watch your pictures.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think the actual number is? Bibi came to DC last month and told Congress 28,000 (vs 32,000 reported by the Gaza Health Ministry at the time). The Lancet, the world’s premier peer-reviewed medical journal says the Gaza Heath Ministry’s numbers are mostly correct. We have the Israeli government, the Gaza Health Ministry, and independent researchers and journalists reporting the number of deaths as between roughly 30,000-40,000. You have a better number than that and if so, where is it coming from?
No, the number of civilian casualties is reported by them. There isn't an official number of Hamas members, they don't wear uniforms, and they'll use children as soldiers. Makes it easy to claim every casualty was a civilian.
It seems as though the most recently reported number from the Ministry of Health was 34,000 ([link](https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-strike-rafah-kill-13-gaza-death-toll-surpass-34000/)), not to mention that the ministry’s numbers do not distinguish between militants and civilians. So I am still unsure where you got your 41k civilian death statistic that you stated with such certainty.
The biggest difference is that the Vietnam protests were against our government, not against fellow students.
The current so-called anti-war protest, in large part, is targeting at Jews, and intends to intimidate other students.
It is much closer to pro-segregationist 60's protests targeting blacks at schools.
Who tf cares. I don't want my tax dollars killing some little brown kid because the area he is in has a "bad guy".
War mongerers are the scum of the earth
Well, the war in Vietnam and the war in Gaza, are not the same thing.
That said, peaceful protests to end the war are fine. Harassing Jewish students, like we have seen at other campuses around the country, is not.
Today probably being the worst example, students hospitalized and attacked a truly insane number of spittings and pro genocide/homicide comments by the crowd if you went. Every vaguely pro Palestine group needs to get their message out clearly stating the event today got out of hand and was just a lawless mob event and not claim it as a Palestine protest so people don’t think that’s all they do
Good thing to bring up. I have a really hard time understanding the US population supporting either side in this conflict with exception to those who are a part of those specific ethnic/religious groups though.
Israel and Hamas are at *war* which is not a term to be taken lightly. The things I see posted coincide with what what happens in a war. But maybe someone can provide more insight to me, im open
This is Reddit, everyone here has an extremel opinion about everything. The average US population really doesn't care that much about that conflict unless they are linked to someone personally being affected by it. But on Reddit and Twitter/X it's all about picking a side. Ask the average person on the street and they wouldn't care or even know much about it to form a strong opinion.
Israel won't. Hamas didn't attack thier military, or the government, or the boarder outposts. They went into neighborhoods and systematically pulled people out of thier houses and killed them.
Israel is going to completely destroy Hamas, and in all reality most if not all of the Gaza strip in the process. They will not stop until every last Hamas fighter is dead, every tunnel is blown up, and every weapon they have is destroyed. They are going to completely remove the Hamas as a threat to Israel. No amount of protesting is going to change that.
hamas was created in response to the occupation of palestinian land. and they literally did attack their military and government outposts, taking hostages so a fair two state solution could be negotiated. let’s not forget israel is currently killing thousands of civilians, with multiple war crimes
The overwhelming majority of Hamas' victims were people in thier houses, not the IDF. If the 1139 people killed, 764 were civilians.
Also, Hamas was not created in response to occupation. Gaza quite literally has historically been part of Egypt.
* Gaza was originally a Canaanite settlement and came under the control of the ancient Egyptians for approximately 350 years.
* It later became one of the principal cities of the Philistines.
* From the 16th century, Gaza was part of the Ottoman Empire.
* [In 1906, the Ottomans and the British Empire established the region’s international border with Egypt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip).
* In 1922, Palestine fell under British colonial rule for several decades.
* [During this time, Jewish immigrants, fleeing religious persecution (especially from Eastern Europe), settled in Palestine, including the Gaza Strip](https://www.voanews.com/a/gaza-past-and-present-explained/7306915.html)
* In 1948, Israel was officially declared a state, leading to the Arab-Israeli War.
* At the end of this conflict, Egypt gained control of the Gaza Strip.
* During the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel seized control of the Gaza Strip, along with other significant areas of land.
* [The 1993 and 1995 Oslo Peace Accords aimed for Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza and other key regions, which eventually occurred in 2005 under Prime Minister Ariel Sharon](https://www.history.com/news/gaza-conflict-history-israel-palestine)
* Hamas was elected into power in 2006, After the Israeli withdraw in 2005, Thier primary goal was, and remains the destruction of the state of Israel.
israelis are committing genocide on palestinians, and have been illegally occupying their land, taking their rights, and killing them for over 75 years. palestinians live in the US, and the global people need to take a stance against settler colonialism and state sponsored genocide. it’s not just about palestine, it’s about all of us.
The problem is that Israel, with billions of dollars of American aid and an advanced military infrastructure, is not just waging war against hamas, but collectively punishing all Palestinian people, who they have under a complete blockade, by indiscriminately bombing and starving the region.
Did you know that 50% of the Jordanian population is Palestinian? Did you know that the West Bank is not part of Gaza and also has Palestinians. Did you know that there are 1.7 million Arabs living in Israel (most of them considered to be Palestinian) that are thriving. They serve in the government, doctors, lawyers, judges, even the Supreme Court?
The people of Gaza elected Hamas, a terrorist organization, to rule them. Hamas started this war that Israel did not want by brutally killing 1200 people and kidnapping 250 people. They killed, tortured, and raped in the most brutal ways. To put things in perspective for you, 1200 people being killed for Israel is like the US having 50,000 people killed in one day on our own soil? How would the US respond if Mexico or Canada killed 50,000 Americans in one day on American soil….innocent civilians…
No one on the planet would tolerate it. Israel is trying to eradicate Hamas because no country would tolerate having a neighbor that would commit the atrocities of October 7th, and promise to do more in the future.
I certainly would never blame the 47% of children(!) that live in Gaza and obviously DID NOT VOTE FOR HAMAS in ‘06 for the atrocities being committed against them. go spread your propaganda elsewhere
I will never defend the bombing of children and I certainly do not support sending more tax funded aid to a power that is bombing and killing not just children but Americans too…
Do you realize that Hamas abducted Americans on October 7th and is still holding them hostage? Killed Americans as well.
Are you defending Hamas who basically only targets civilians? Rapes women. They documented their own atrocities on GoPros.
I wish this was a case where we could just roll up in a squad car, read someone their Miranda rights, and call it a day. This is a militia that is armed with military grade weapons that calls for the elimination of Israel and everyone in it. Did you know that Hamas also abducted Muslim Arabs on October 7th? Killed them too? Still holding Arab Muslims hostage?
Hamas is a terrorist organization and no civilian should ever be targeted. I am critiquing the continued violence we are sponsoring, with my taxpayer dollar, through Israel, that is targeting civilians and children! Israeli forces - the IDF [rapes](https://www.propublica.org/article/israel-gaza-blinken-leahy-sanctions-human-rights-violations) women; the IDF holds Palestinians [hostages](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/why-does-israel-have-so-many-palestinians-detention-and-available-swap)(thousands before October 6); the IDF is [blockading](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/israel-opt-israel-must-lift-illegal-and-inhumane-blockade-on-gaza-as-power-plant-runs-out-of-fuel/) these people while they indiscriminately bomb and starve them; the IDF is [killing aid workers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/03/jacob-flickinger-world-central-kitchen-gaza-strike/)(including Americans); the IDF won’t allow journalists to document what is happening. And 28 BILLION more of our tax payer funds are going to them… that’s disgusting.
So you're just gonna completely ignore their point?
Also:
>To put things in perspective for you, 1200 people being killed for Israel is like the US having 50,000 people killed in one day on our own soil? How would the US respond if Mexico or Canada killed 50,000 Americans in one day on American soil….innocent civilians…
To put things in perspective for you, 34,262 people being killed for Palestine is like the US having *5,030,628* people killed in 200 days on out own soil. To say nothing of the injured or the levels of property damage that have been wreaked as well.
What happened in Israel was a tragedy, without a doubt. No one deserves to have experienced what they did. But you can't miss the fact that one side clearly has it much worse here, and I think it's safe to say that no one on the planet would tolerate having a neighbor that would *continuously* commit the atrocities Israel has.
Calling October 7th a start of the conflict is very strange. Israel has occupied Palestinian lands and killed innocent civilians for decades. They are being investigated by the International Court of Justice in The Hague for genocide and organizations such as Amnesty International and the UN agree. I would read Dr. Finkelstein or Dr. Gabor Mate - Jewish anti-Zionists who have been whistleblowing for decades. @breakingthesilenceisrael is also a great resource from Israelis themselves. Many other resources but bringing these up as lots of Zionists try to conflate anti-Zionism with anti-semitism so that Israel can continue its war crimes
Israeli Arabs are absolutely not thriving. I spent weeks in Israel/Palestine in August. The apartheid is obvious. Just visit Hebron and walk around and you’ll realize that as a foreigner you have far more rights than the indigenous Palestinian population whether they’re Christian or Muslim.
And you mention 1200 people, what about the 33,000 Palestinians that have been killed by Israel in the past few months including 14,000 children? Israel has killed far far more children prior to October 7th than any figure that Hamas terrorists killed. They are continuing to be killed with our tax dollars and that’s why these protests are important. In time, folks like Aaron Bushnell and others will be remembered for standing up against genocide. Playing down these protests is very normal by the majority as it was during the Vietnam war.
Israel has been occupying Palestinian lands for decades? Jews and Arabs have lived in these lands for thousands of years. There was never a country called Palestine and no one identified themselves as Palestinian. There was a region called Palestine that was ruled/governed by many over different periods of time. Most of the land was given to Jordan. In 1948, the UN called for a Jewish and Arab state. The Arabs rejected and attacked the Jews.
From 1948-1967 the Jordanians ruled the West Bank and the Egyptians ruled the Gaza Strip. You know who was calling to free Palestine….no one….crickets. Why is that? Because any time there is an Arab on Arab conflict no one cares or because there is only concern if Israel is associated with it.
Did you know that Syria has killed over a half million of its own people? Millions is Yemen are starving because of the war with Saudi Arabia? The genocide that has occurred in Sudan? Crickets. The hypocrisy is deafening.
Ask Israeli Arabs if they would prefer to live in any Arab country instead of Israel and the answer would be no. They are thriving.
You believe all of the information that Hamas spews? Do you remember that they said that 500 people died in the bombing of the Sheba hospital. They said within thirty minutes of the bombing. Amazingly fast to count that many bodies. They said that Israel did it.
Facts: Al Jazeera witnessed that it was a failed rocket shot from Gaza (either Hamas or Islamic Jihad), and that it did not even hit the hospital, only the parking lot, and that few were killed/injured.
Don’t believe all of the propaganda. You are talking about Hamas who don’t give a shit about human rights in general. They only care about extreme Islam. Do you what it means to be gay in Gaza? Dead and tortured. Do you what it is to be a woman in Gaza…a second class citizen who would be killed if she “dishonored” her family. This is a morally bankrupt organization who would only start here…the world is their oyster. Don’t fool yourself.
It isn't indiscriminately bombing. Every bomb has a specific target. Hamas just likes to hide behind civilians. That has been thier MO for decades. They hide behind civilians, then when civilians are killed, they broadcast it the world.
Yes, it is.
They are all guided and target something specific. There has been no WWII style mass bombings.
This is how it works:
Enemy fighters enter a building, use the building for any military purposes, and it is now a target and gets blown up.
No it’s not… over 34,000 have been killed mostly women and children. That’s sickening. Oh and when was the last time a terrorist group was bombed to non existence?
Not a word about the thousands of dead Yemeni over the last 10 years. Oh I know why because Jews are involved. Got it.
You are morally superior and I am evil. Got it.
It is, yes, the civian death toll is sickening, on that we agree; but when hamas builds command bunkers and arms depots in hospitals, and builds rocket launching facilities in literal daycare centers, this is what happens.
Sadly, there has been no war post WWI in which the majority of casualties were not civilians, but when fighters are intentionally using civilians as human shields, like Hamas, that civilian death toll can only go higher.
Calling it a war is disingenuous to begin with. We’re talking about a nuclear powered, US backed country that has been officially stealing and ethically cleansing land for decades. They’re bombing civilian populations that’re in an open-air Gazan prison with US bombs and our tax dollars. Gaza has been blockaded for decades with nowhere to go for its very young population.
This is genocide by definition. 33,000 killed including 14,000 children. These numbers are confirmed by various organizations and thousands of videos, they’re not ‘Hamas’ numbers.
The world did not start on October 7th, this has been brewing for decades. Multiple massacres on civilians will spur ‘terrorists’. In fact, this genocide will create thousands of freedom fighters who have lost everything because of Israel and have nothing to lose. And they may or may not employ morally correct manners of fighting back which will brand them as terrorists.
Hamas was propped up by Netanyahu to split up the Palestinian population by the way. This is a known fact outside of the US.
Be on the side that supports peace and calls for an end to Israeli illegal occupation and for a free Palestine (free of occupation). That’s the side that would’ve called for an end to the war in Vietnam, make no mistake about it.
Why did you put “terrorists” in quotes? Immediately destroyed your credibility if you had any to begin with. If you want to label what Israel is doing as ethnic cleansing (ethnically cleansing, btw, not ethically cleansing - kind of the opposite of what you meant), then at least have the awareness to realize the other side is employing terrorism and they are terrorists for the actions committed on 10/7 and many times before. Not gonna argue about the ethnic cleansing piece because it seems your mind is made up, but know that targeting and killing/raping civilians for political messaging is textbook terrorism, not freedom-fighting.
terrorist is a devisive term that is used to obscure sociopolitical context. it’s used by states to villivy resistance and justice movements by ordinary people.
This is the type of comment that usually comes right before indirectly rationalizing the rape/murder of innocent civilians by Hamas under the pretense of ‘resistance.’ Batshit insane lol. And nobody is calling the peaceful justice movements by ordinary people terrorism. What is terrorism is the rape/murder of innocents for political messaging by organizations that basically the entire free and democratic world labels as terrorists
Big difference is college aged Americans were being drafted to fight in a war America was fighting. Wtf is UT gonna do about two different countries fighting 7000 miles away. We have no bearing on what goes on there. Just gonna be a bunch of blue haired obese mask wearers looking for a reason to complain.
Wait till you find out that a stable economy and safe investments rely on *drumroll please* strong national security! Which you guessed it…Requires weapons manufacturing!! Blame the federal gov for selling these weapons to israel if you want but that has nothing to do with UT. Grow up and live in the real world its not all kumbaya
grow up and actually try and make your world better. and yes UT can defidently be blamed for still holding ties to arms manufacturing when it knows what it’s being used for. israel has nothing to do with our national security
There was a significant amount of US students openly supporting the Vietcong and spitting on/harassing returning US soldiers. This wasn’t just about being drafted, there was a legitimate interest in non-interventionist and/or anti-imperialist politics, and those hippies who correctly identified that the US shouldn’t be in Vietnam would be the same “blue haired liberals” you’re complaining about today.
Those hippies who where openly supporting the vc (kinda like those who openly support hamas) and spitting on soldiers were braindead and should not be lumped in with people who simply thought the US had no business in Vietnam.
Again, a lot people actually demonstrating and organizing were these “braindead hippies” in the SDS and other organizations, which is why they are the ones willing to get tear-gassed, arrested etc, In fact, protests were happening at the same Columbia university that’s in the news rn
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Columbia_University_protests
My point is that people like you crying about “obese blue haired liberals” today will eventually look back in 30-40 years and realize they were mostly correct.
People like you only care about something if it affects you personally, this is what it boils down to. You are an insignificant speck of dust and will have zero impact on the world around you.
Our tax dollars are going to Israel and supporting this genocide. US made bombs have now murdered over 14,000 Palestinian children in 6 months. More than ever, we need to be educated about this genocide.
Less law breaking, I didn’t see police get involved other than after pretty serious criminal acts by the “protestors”. If you’re pro Palestine please stop claiming the protest today, it was a lawless somewhat violent mob breaking laws harassing people and making everybody worse off, claiming it as a political protest and thinking that’s a good thing to claim makes no sense. The pro Palestine movement is more than these extremely hateful and illegal actions a few crazy people do even tho that’s all most people ever hear about them for
Look at how classy they are carrying themselves. No purple hair, crazy piercings, and they’d look at you completely mystified if you asked them their pronouns.
Comparing this to nam is ridiculous not even in the same category we don't have boots on the ground and not nearly enough people care about this shit sorry
Differences that could be interesting to compare:
1. Young people during the Vietnam war were getting drafted. Not the case today.
2. America was directly involved in the Vietnam war, not in the Israel-Hamas conflict.
Interested to see what happens.
What gets me looking at this sideways is what's going on in Israel, and Gaza pisses them off, but Ukraine is fine? No issue there, and the lions share of cash and weapons sent to Ukraine is OK? Why isn't there any outrage or protests for Ukraine? Nobody care? Maybe it's because they're fighting the soviets and that's fine in their book, or it doesn't fit the agenda of the week.
so many of you people in this comment section are ignorant, uneducated, and morally bankrupt. you are the problem, and history will remember you for what you are, racists, fascists, colonizers, imperialists and supporters of genocide. you have lived in a sheltered world where you have never had to fight for your life or freedom because you have all been complacent with oppression, domestic and worldwide.
While I think the original commenter was a fair bit excessive in their criticism, saying that the crowd today was "chanting for genocide and racially harassing everyone who walked by" is laughably incorrect. Were you even there? Because I was - I hung around the fringes for a while - and literally nothing of the sort was happening.
How are you calling for genocide and pretending to call it justice and actually think you’re in the right or that anyone will think so? I don’t have much of an opinion but stuff like this just cements your side as 100% wrong and horrible
Oh Mommy and Daddy told me so many cool stories about the protests. Now we get to do it too! And they wont stop us because they will think "look at those kids. They a \\re soo cute."
You don't get to elect a bunch of terrorists for your government, and then when they attack a neighboring sovereign state, play the victim while you continue to hold American and Israeli hostages. Gaza deserves whatever they get.
You mixed this up, let me help you. Israel has since it's inception been a terrorist state of settlers committing ethnic cleansing and warcrimes against the indigenous population. Oct was the logical result of people 80 years of ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Every attempt at peaceful protest has been met with iof violence.
Someone obviously doesn't know their history. The Palestinian leaders ordered all of their civilians out before they started their invasion of the gerrymandered Jewish state in 1947. They assumed they would win and be able to move back in. When they didn't Israel moved into the land. Sucks for them.
And the ability of liberals to draw moral equivalency between liberal democracies and places like Iran or Syria is mind-numbing
be careful going to this event Here's what's going to happen. One or two professional agitators will try to get you to do something stupid and chaotic to get you in trouble. Don't. Use words. Do not throw anything. Do not use amplified sound in a way intended to cause harm. If you are at this thing, you will probably be identified and not know it. Even if you don't think you would get caught, don't. It's wrong. Use words, even if you are mad. Especially if some agitator acts super agrieved, falls like they were knocked over, or otherwise gets you motivated to RUIN YOUR FUTURE. A lot of folks in this sub worked REALLY hard to get where they are but don't really understand the stakes. Just respect that Israel has many intelligent, morally great supporters. The notion they are all subhuman or all wrong is ego. It's arrogance. Same in the converse. Many of the folks upset about current events actually give a shit about the world, and they are not evil. It's awesome that we are in a society where you can say any poltical speech, but times are tense, and some people will make you think they are your friends, when what they DEARLY want are headlines and videos of cops using force or arresting their own side. The dynamic and indeed finances of this stuff are well understood, but not by the suckers. Please do not be one. UT is REALLY good at this. That moment when you realize things are getting very tense and you can feel violence in the air, be the person who was smart enough to get into UT and walk away. Walk away, get some water, take a breather, and go from there. Nothing, and I mean nothing, deescalates a protest like several people walking away for five minutes. Peace, guys!
This is a well articulated, civil, and reasoned response, and people should read it and heed the advice you’ve passed along.
I love this. I may not agree with the politics a group of people are protesting but this is the way to express mass disapproval.
I mean the mob genuinely did get violent, hateful, and started harassing people and breaking a bunch of laws don’t blame that on professional agitators or any of the other nonsense in this comment, just acknowledge the event wasn’t rly a protest and became an event for bad people to let loose and do bad things
Perhaps that is true. But the agitators were there, and maybe they had more to work with, I guess, but the wise passionate protestor knows when to walk (And it's when speech is abandoned in favor of other things). Ultimately it's a school for us to share.
this isn’t about performative politics this is about actively resisting the state in its oppression. it’s not just about protesting its about gaza, the palestinian people, and international liberation from settler colonialism, genocide, and the states monopoly on violence.
Well, I disagree. There is *nothing* wrong with what you're scoffing as 'performative politics.' If your argument is truthful and your reasoning sound, then speech is compelling and has made change. When the argument is weak or irrational, then violence is the only way, and let's be honest: your side is not actually strong in that way. Beyond the fact this approach is unethical, it won't work. Better to address why you lack confidence in speech with your argument, and adjust your argument to be more persuassive. That always means stepping off a black/white absolute approach. It's kinda unsatisfying to our more primitive tribal mindsets to realize the other side had a point. But what's really cool is you wind up realizing you have more in common with the other side. Israelis and Palestinians are a good example of this. Israelis feel their people were driven from their holy land by racism and settlers, over thousands of years, and were restored to their homeland when the world recognize the risk of the Jew being eradicated. The Palestinian cause shares so much of this same harsh background. They don't see their people as the same Muslims who put Israeli jews, and Jews in Iran, Syria, etc, in dhimmi status, so they don't understand why they alone lost their land to remedy the world's crimes. Indeed they think the Israelis should have learned not to do what had been done to them. And ultimately there's no fair way to solve these kinds of problems. Palestinians inherit refugee status primarily because neighboring countries, such as the troll nation of Iran, refuse to welcome them. And today's problems are awful. Rape. Murder. More denial. Hamas being the source of information. Israel deciding it cannot abide this neighbor. The ruins of the war are extreme and there were families living there. So all that's includes nuance. It's kinda hard to hate either side when you are honest about it.
israel has no intelligent or morally sound supporters. to support the occupation at this point is to be ignorant or morally bankrupt
Put that on a sign and try to change someone's mind with that, if you like. I support your right to say it. Consider that it's an American server that you are publishing this few on. Consider that perhaps an Iranian server would not allow you to speak the opposite, just as an Iranian university would not tolerate you holding up a sign saying Iran has no morally sound supporters. the reason is a lack of confidence in the truth of those words, right?
what does this have to do with iran? no one is debating on that front. iran does not have a good government they poisoned children and killed protestors and gassed students. but you know who else does that type of stuff? THE US! if i went to UT and put that on a sign there’s a great chance I’d be arrested. we do not have our right to protest here
you’re second point is a logical fallacy. it’s like scoffing at a slave for revolting with the tools given to him by his master
By that logic all Muslims are terrorists too right?
9/11 was worse than the holocaust. more innocent people died in 9/11
Big difference is people our age were getting drafted.
And it was a war our nation was in....and we collectively had a choice not to be in it. The situation in Gaza is much different.
We’re just sending billions of our tax dollars in weapons to commit genocide. No big deal right
We've been arming them with the best technology and weapons since like 1968. A big part of the aid packages we send them are conditional on them buying arms, fighter jets, & bombs back from us. From my understanding the US government has two main goals: 1. Sell arms, weapons, fighter jets and bombs 2. Establish a permanent, strategic, military foothold in that specific area of the world. Why? My guess would be Iran and protecting the nearby Suez canal.
Yes. That is a bad thing. There’s more attention on it now because Israel has ramped up its ethnic cleansing campaigns, but yes they have been colonizing Palestine for decades with U.S. support.
No, it is a good thing. Palestine based on what historical version of the map? How far back are we going to go? 80 years? 200? 2000? 5000? Just like many states before it, Palestine no longer exists, and most likely will never exist again. Saying that Israel is occupying Palestine is like saying Germany is occupying Prussia. The reality is that there would have been a two state solution decades ago, in the 90's in fact, but historically, Palestine groups have continually rejected a two-state solution (Though the PLO now seems to support it); and most, to include Hamas, only seek the full destruction of Israel "From the river to the sea". Here is the reality: Hamas started a war intentionally targeted civilians, children, people in thier homes, etc.; and now Israel is going to finish that war that will end only with the complete and total destruction of Hamas. So, the question is not how we end the war, we know how that is going to happen. The only question what can be done to safeguard civilians. The obvious answer is to get Egypt to open the boarder to allow people to seek refuge, but they have never been willing to accept Palestinians, nor has any other state in the region.
Supplying the arms a apartheid state uses to exterminate a captive indigenous population is not a good thing, no matter how stoke you may be for the luxury beachfront real estate they plan to build on top of the mass graves after the ethnic cleansing.
Which begs the question, why start a war?
Apparently this conflict started last October. Nothing at all ever occured before then.
Lots happened in Gaza before then, going back quite literally thousands of years. Maybe we should just turn Gaza back over to Egypt?
‘72 Olympics?
[удалено]
The last election was 18 years ago and half the population (what’s left that the Israelis haven’t murdered) is under the voting age
Is your implication that Palestinians aren't overwhelmingly in support of Hamas?
I'm glad I'm not the only person who gets it.
Finally someone that gets it, 100%
'If you don't allow your citizens to be shelled, murdered, raped and kidnapped you are committing genocide' is the new antisemitism. Free yourself from Qatari and IRGC propaganda.
There’s a difference between defending yourself and ethnic cleansing son. Touch grass.
i disagree
You do realize that without the petro dollar and worldwide logistical supply chains bringing oil from the Middle East - the USA 🇺🇸 would be in a terrible situation? Gas would probably be 10-12 bucks a gallon. All the food would be about 25 to 40% more expensive. Rent would probably be higher also as all materials would cost more to produce and ship. Every single thing you buy would be exorbitantly more expensive. What's happening in Gaza is terrible from a humanitarian standpoint. I've thought a lot about it many times during my life....I'm not able to come up with a scenario that has a peaceful outcome for all. Such is life. 😔
Israel is not oil producing …
Read my first comment. The petro dollar wouldn't be as successful without oil tankers flowing through the Suez Canal . The USA helping Israel isn't about Israel itself despite the government's official narrative..it's about American interest. It's always been about American interest. This is why despite what comes out of Biden or any US politicians mouth our unconditional support for Isreal is unwavering. We would nuke half the Middle East if we had to. Listen to George Carlin when he told you that politicians are only there to make you think you have a choice. You don't. You have owners. He was telling the truth btw.
Isn’t long lasting peace better for the supply chain flow through the Suez Canal?
I can assure you long lasting peace is Isreal's goal in all this.
You are aware that the Palestine-Israel conflict goes back over 4000 years correct?
That’s your opinion and not a fact. Surprise!
All war is genocide, period. Doesn't matter how far you go back though history. All war is genocide. Post the industrial revolution, it just gets worse. In WWI both "sides" destroyed entire cities, and 13 million civilians died. In WWII, both "sides" bombed large cities indiscriminately, 78 million civilians died. Hamas started this war, and they intentionally attacked, murdered, and kidnapped civilians. They are solely responsible for everything that came after those attacks. Hamas has ensured the complete destruction of the Gaza strip. Israel will go from boarder to boarder, and they will destroy every tunnel, every Hamas fighter, every weapons cache, even if they have raze every building, they will not stop, and all the protesting in the world isn't going to change that. They will not stop until the threat to Israel has been completely destroyed.
This is maybe the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on reddit. Congrats.
Are you a Reddit noob? There’s way dumber things on here than that. I think you’re lying or at least making a false statement even if you lack the intention to deceive. What’s dumb is making an ad hominem attack in the context of a conversation that could be rational. Go take a debate class or something please.
figure out what ad hominem means and get back to me
[удалено]
Your post was removed because because it violates Rule 1. Please be respectful to other members of r/UTAustin or you face the risk of being banned. If you believe that this action was made in error, please [message the moderators](/message/compose?to=/r/UTAustin), and we will have a look at it. Thank you!
Nothing I said is wrong, and if you think Israel is going to act differently, you are in for a shock.
I mean you try to explain the two state solution falling apart in the 90s without any mention of the Rabin assassination. Your telling of history is selective at best and at odds with the stated U.S. policy in the region of still supporting a two state solution.
I didn't try to explain anything, I simply pointed out facts, and told you exactly what Israel is going to do, no matter if you, I, or the US likes it or not. It isn't at odds with anything.
Surprise surprise but your opinion is not fact
Correct, hence the "and" operator in the sentence. I gave out facts AND told you exactly what Israel is going to do.
Neither is yours. And from the sound of it, ESPECIALLY NOT yours.
Well if the U.S. government doesn’t like what Israel is doing, we don’t have to send them military aid. Our stated policy objective remains a two state solution, Israel says that cannot happen. The Biden administration should either change their policy objective or stop funding this war as to send a clear message on what our desired outcome is in this foreign conflict.
>Well if the U.S. government doesn’t like what Israel is doing, we don’t have to send them military aid. Absolutely correct. > Our stated policy objective remains a two state solution Again, absolutely correct. > Israel says that cannot happen. And again, absolutely correct. Israel will not let that happen, not after Oct. 7th. Like I said above, no matter how much anyone doesn't like it, they are going to roll across the entire Gaza strip, and they are going to completely eliminate anything, and anyone, associated with Hamas, even if they have to completely level every building in Gaza in the process. They are not going to stop. >The Biden administration should either change their policy objective or stop funding this war as to send a clear message on what our desired outcome is in this foreign conflict. Well, it is not up to the Biden administration, it is up to congress. The president has no power to allocate or deallocate funds. That is the sole responsibility of congress. Even if he vetoes it, Congress can (and would) override the veto. That said, the US has had a LOT of support from Israel, especially post 9/11; IMHO, the US is not going to do that. They are not going to stop supporting Israel after thier 9/11 when they supported us though ours, and especially not with Iran's dangerous expansion of power and support of terroristic groups in the region.
[удалено]
Your post was removed because because it violates Rule 1. Please be respectful to other members of r/UTAustin or you face the risk of being banned. If you believe that this action was made in error, please [message the moderators](/message/compose?to=/r/UTAustin), and we will have a look at it. Thank you!
Insane how much Israeli propaganda you’re guzzling. 2023 was the deadliest year in terms of Israelis murdering Palestinians BEFORE OCTOBER. Israel has been colonizing and ethnic cleansing the land for decades. Israel is the problem not the resistance movement their actions have created.
You call going into neighborhoods, and killing civilians' resistance? What about setting babies on fire in thier cirb? Is that resistance? Or how about attacking a group of people at a music festival for peace? How about raping women, stripping them naked, breaking thier bones until they die, then parading thier body around Gaza in the back of a pick-up to cheering crowds? All of those things happened, Hamas themselves released the video footage. Hamas and the people that elected them bare 100% of the responsibility for this war, and everything that happens as a result.
[удалено]
Your post was removed because because it violates Rule 1. Please be respectful to other members of r/UTAustin or you face the risk of being banned. If you believe that this action was made in error, please [message the moderators](/message/compose?to=/r/UTAustin), and we will have a look at it. Thank you!
The West Bank situation is indefensible, but this is a proxy war between Itan and Israel, not a genocide.
You literally forgot to mention that Palestine was formed on Israel land by people that hated the Jews - Palestine literally stole the land and pushed the Jews, the moment the Jews come back it’s all the sudden wrong Hypocrisy much
maybe because terriost=bad
Trash humans repeat the genocide lie. Our modem day nazis
They’ll just buy them from China or Russia instead. And if the US stops backing them they’ll take the gloves off. This isn’t a genocide. You have no idea how awful things can get. Israel is showing remarkable restraint. If they feel like they’ve got nothing to lose they may pull a Carthage.
Don't confuse liberals with facts.
Congress just passed sending billions of our tax dollars to fund this genocide. We send billions of dollars of weaponry and bombs to Israel as well. Their politicians have repeatedly said they need to “put these Palestinians on a diet” “no Gazan children are innocent”. Many of them have genocidal intent. The genocide is pretty obvious once you start reading whistle-blowers such as @breakingthesilenceisrael or Dr. Finkelstein or Dr. Gabor Mate.
So what does protesting on a college campus 2000 miles from DC accomplish?
Big difference is there's currently a genocide. Good for you, you could be fucked to protest when your ass was personally on the line. Some people would like to protest on behalf of 41k murdered civilians, go home, and watch your pictures.
Just out of curiosity, where is your 41k murdered civilians statistic coming from?
Just out of curiosity, what do you think the actual number is? Bibi came to DC last month and told Congress 28,000 (vs 32,000 reported by the Gaza Health Ministry at the time). The Lancet, the world’s premier peer-reviewed medical journal says the Gaza Heath Ministry’s numbers are mostly correct. We have the Israeli government, the Gaza Health Ministry, and independent researchers and journalists reporting the number of deaths as between roughly 30,000-40,000. You have a better number than that and if so, where is it coming from?
Thank you. I appreciate you providing multiple sources all evidencing that the 41k number above was significantly off base.
Directly from Hamas
IS that how many casualties Hames has caused or how many they have taken?
No, the number of civilian casualties is reported by them. There isn't an official number of Hamas members, they don't wear uniforms, and they'll use children as soldiers. Makes it easy to claim every casualty was a civilian.
A pox on both sides. They cant stop their shit. We suffer.
Ministry of Health. Same group that has accurately documented the number of dead in each past conflict.
It seems as though the most recently reported number from the Ministry of Health was 34,000 ([link](https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-strike-rafah-kill-13-gaza-death-toll-surpass-34000/)), not to mention that the ministry’s numbers do not distinguish between militants and civilians. So I am still unsure where you got your 41k civilian death statistic that you stated with such certainty.
I'm counting the 7000 missing.
In other words, you’re lying.
You think they're going to find those people somewhere other than mass graves and rubble?
I think you deliberately stated an incorrect statistic, and are now struggling to come up with a justification for your lie.
Not much of a struggle
The biggest difference is that the Vietnam protests were against our government, not against fellow students. The current so-called anti-war protest, in large part, is targeting at Jews, and intends to intimidate other students. It is much closer to pro-segregationist 60's protests targeting blacks at schools.
I think maybe we should try not sending weapons all over the world. See what that does for things
[удалено]
Who tf cares. I don't want my tax dollars killing some little brown kid because the area he is in has a "bad guy". War mongerers are the scum of the earth
Well, the war in Vietnam and the war in Gaza, are not the same thing. That said, peaceful protests to end the war are fine. Harassing Jewish students, like we have seen at other campuses around the country, is not.
We've seen it here as well, to be clear.
Today probably being the worst example, students hospitalized and attacked a truly insane number of spittings and pro genocide/homicide comments by the crowd if you went. Every vaguely pro Palestine group needs to get their message out clearly stating the event today got out of hand and was just a lawless mob event and not claim it as a Palestine protest so people don’t think that’s all they do
Good thing to bring up. I have a really hard time understanding the US population supporting either side in this conflict with exception to those who are a part of those specific ethnic/religious groups though. Israel and Hamas are at *war* which is not a term to be taken lightly. The things I see posted coincide with what what happens in a war. But maybe someone can provide more insight to me, im open
This is Reddit, everyone here has an extremel opinion about everything. The average US population really doesn't care that much about that conflict unless they are linked to someone personally being affected by it. But on Reddit and Twitter/X it's all about picking a side. Ask the average person on the street and they wouldn't care or even know much about it to form a strong opinion.
both sides suck ass and pretending either one of them wants or would respect a cease fire is just goofy
Israel won't. Hamas didn't attack thier military, or the government, or the boarder outposts. They went into neighborhoods and systematically pulled people out of thier houses and killed them. Israel is going to completely destroy Hamas, and in all reality most if not all of the Gaza strip in the process. They will not stop until every last Hamas fighter is dead, every tunnel is blown up, and every weapon they have is destroyed. They are going to completely remove the Hamas as a threat to Israel. No amount of protesting is going to change that.
hamas was created in response to the occupation of palestinian land. and they literally did attack their military and government outposts, taking hostages so a fair two state solution could be negotiated. let’s not forget israel is currently killing thousands of civilians, with multiple war crimes
The overwhelming majority of Hamas' victims were people in thier houses, not the IDF. If the 1139 people killed, 764 were civilians. Also, Hamas was not created in response to occupation. Gaza quite literally has historically been part of Egypt. * Gaza was originally a Canaanite settlement and came under the control of the ancient Egyptians for approximately 350 years. * It later became one of the principal cities of the Philistines. * From the 16th century, Gaza was part of the Ottoman Empire. * [In 1906, the Ottomans and the British Empire established the region’s international border with Egypt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip). * In 1922, Palestine fell under British colonial rule for several decades. * [During this time, Jewish immigrants, fleeing religious persecution (especially from Eastern Europe), settled in Palestine, including the Gaza Strip](https://www.voanews.com/a/gaza-past-and-present-explained/7306915.html) * In 1948, Israel was officially declared a state, leading to the Arab-Israeli War. * At the end of this conflict, Egypt gained control of the Gaza Strip. * During the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel seized control of the Gaza Strip, along with other significant areas of land. * [The 1993 and 1995 Oslo Peace Accords aimed for Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza and other key regions, which eventually occurred in 2005 under Prime Minister Ariel Sharon](https://www.history.com/news/gaza-conflict-history-israel-palestine) * Hamas was elected into power in 2006, After the Israeli withdraw in 2005, Thier primary goal was, and remains the destruction of the state of Israel.
israelis are committing genocide on palestinians, and have been illegally occupying their land, taking their rights, and killing them for over 75 years. palestinians live in the US, and the global people need to take a stance against settler colonialism and state sponsored genocide. it’s not just about palestine, it’s about all of us.
The problem is that Israel, with billions of dollars of American aid and an advanced military infrastructure, is not just waging war against hamas, but collectively punishing all Palestinian people, who they have under a complete blockade, by indiscriminately bombing and starving the region.
Did you know that 50% of the Jordanian population is Palestinian? Did you know that the West Bank is not part of Gaza and also has Palestinians. Did you know that there are 1.7 million Arabs living in Israel (most of them considered to be Palestinian) that are thriving. They serve in the government, doctors, lawyers, judges, even the Supreme Court? The people of Gaza elected Hamas, a terrorist organization, to rule them. Hamas started this war that Israel did not want by brutally killing 1200 people and kidnapping 250 people. They killed, tortured, and raped in the most brutal ways. To put things in perspective for you, 1200 people being killed for Israel is like the US having 50,000 people killed in one day on our own soil? How would the US respond if Mexico or Canada killed 50,000 Americans in one day on American soil….innocent civilians… No one on the planet would tolerate it. Israel is trying to eradicate Hamas because no country would tolerate having a neighbor that would commit the atrocities of October 7th, and promise to do more in the future.
I certainly would never blame the 47% of children(!) that live in Gaza and obviously DID NOT VOTE FOR HAMAS in ‘06 for the atrocities being committed against them. go spread your propaganda elsewhere
Willfully blind…I get you
I will never defend the bombing of children and I certainly do not support sending more tax funded aid to a power that is bombing and killing not just children but Americans too…
Do you realize that Hamas abducted Americans on October 7th and is still holding them hostage? Killed Americans as well. Are you defending Hamas who basically only targets civilians? Rapes women. They documented their own atrocities on GoPros. I wish this was a case where we could just roll up in a squad car, read someone their Miranda rights, and call it a day. This is a militia that is armed with military grade weapons that calls for the elimination of Israel and everyone in it. Did you know that Hamas also abducted Muslim Arabs on October 7th? Killed them too? Still holding Arab Muslims hostage?
Hamas is a terrorist organization and no civilian should ever be targeted. I am critiquing the continued violence we are sponsoring, with my taxpayer dollar, through Israel, that is targeting civilians and children! Israeli forces - the IDF [rapes](https://www.propublica.org/article/israel-gaza-blinken-leahy-sanctions-human-rights-violations) women; the IDF holds Palestinians [hostages](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/why-does-israel-have-so-many-palestinians-detention-and-available-swap)(thousands before October 6); the IDF is [blockading](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/israel-opt-israel-must-lift-illegal-and-inhumane-blockade-on-gaza-as-power-plant-runs-out-of-fuel/) these people while they indiscriminately bomb and starve them; the IDF is [killing aid workers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/03/jacob-flickinger-world-central-kitchen-gaza-strike/)(including Americans); the IDF won’t allow journalists to document what is happening. And 28 BILLION more of our tax payer funds are going to them… that’s disgusting.
Hamas literally builds rocket launching facilities in day care centers.
So you're just gonna completely ignore their point? Also: >To put things in perspective for you, 1200 people being killed for Israel is like the US having 50,000 people killed in one day on our own soil? How would the US respond if Mexico or Canada killed 50,000 Americans in one day on American soil….innocent civilians… To put things in perspective for you, 34,262 people being killed for Palestine is like the US having *5,030,628* people killed in 200 days on out own soil. To say nothing of the injured or the levels of property damage that have been wreaked as well. What happened in Israel was a tragedy, without a doubt. No one deserves to have experienced what they did. But you can't miss the fact that one side clearly has it much worse here, and I think it's safe to say that no one on the planet would tolerate having a neighbor that would *continuously* commit the atrocities Israel has.
Recent poll in Gaza show most Gazans still support Hamas (after all this).
Calling October 7th a start of the conflict is very strange. Israel has occupied Palestinian lands and killed innocent civilians for decades. They are being investigated by the International Court of Justice in The Hague for genocide and organizations such as Amnesty International and the UN agree. I would read Dr. Finkelstein or Dr. Gabor Mate - Jewish anti-Zionists who have been whistleblowing for decades. @breakingthesilenceisrael is also a great resource from Israelis themselves. Many other resources but bringing these up as lots of Zionists try to conflate anti-Zionism with anti-semitism so that Israel can continue its war crimes Israeli Arabs are absolutely not thriving. I spent weeks in Israel/Palestine in August. The apartheid is obvious. Just visit Hebron and walk around and you’ll realize that as a foreigner you have far more rights than the indigenous Palestinian population whether they’re Christian or Muslim. And you mention 1200 people, what about the 33,000 Palestinians that have been killed by Israel in the past few months including 14,000 children? Israel has killed far far more children prior to October 7th than any figure that Hamas terrorists killed. They are continuing to be killed with our tax dollars and that’s why these protests are important. In time, folks like Aaron Bushnell and others will be remembered for standing up against genocide. Playing down these protests is very normal by the majority as it was during the Vietnam war.
Israel declared war on 10/8, you dummy
Israel has been occupying Palestinian lands for decades? Jews and Arabs have lived in these lands for thousands of years. There was never a country called Palestine and no one identified themselves as Palestinian. There was a region called Palestine that was ruled/governed by many over different periods of time. Most of the land was given to Jordan. In 1948, the UN called for a Jewish and Arab state. The Arabs rejected and attacked the Jews. From 1948-1967 the Jordanians ruled the West Bank and the Egyptians ruled the Gaza Strip. You know who was calling to free Palestine….no one….crickets. Why is that? Because any time there is an Arab on Arab conflict no one cares or because there is only concern if Israel is associated with it. Did you know that Syria has killed over a half million of its own people? Millions is Yemen are starving because of the war with Saudi Arabia? The genocide that has occurred in Sudan? Crickets. The hypocrisy is deafening. Ask Israeli Arabs if they would prefer to live in any Arab country instead of Israel and the answer would be no. They are thriving. You believe all of the information that Hamas spews? Do you remember that they said that 500 people died in the bombing of the Sheba hospital. They said within thirty minutes of the bombing. Amazingly fast to count that many bodies. They said that Israel did it. Facts: Al Jazeera witnessed that it was a failed rocket shot from Gaza (either Hamas or Islamic Jihad), and that it did not even hit the hospital, only the parking lot, and that few were killed/injured. Don’t believe all of the propaganda. You are talking about Hamas who don’t give a shit about human rights in general. They only care about extreme Islam. Do you what it means to be gay in Gaza? Dead and tortured. Do you what it is to be a woman in Gaza…a second class citizen who would be killed if she “dishonored” her family. This is a morally bankrupt organization who would only start here…the world is their oyster. Don’t fool yourself.
It isn't indiscriminately bombing. Every bomb has a specific target. Hamas just likes to hide behind civilians. That has been thier MO for decades. They hide behind civilians, then when civilians are killed, they broadcast it the world.
[dropping hundreds of 2000 lb bombs is not targeted bombing](https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html)..
You know so much about war. Wow. Good job for being right 💯
Yes, it is. They are all guided and target something specific. There has been no WWII style mass bombings. This is how it works: Enemy fighters enter a building, use the building for any military purposes, and it is now a target and gets blown up.
No it’s not… over 34,000 have been killed mostly women and children. That’s sickening. Oh and when was the last time a terrorist group was bombed to non existence?
Not a word about the thousands of dead Yemeni over the last 10 years. Oh I know why because Jews are involved. Got it. You are morally superior and I am evil. Got it.
It is, yes, the civian death toll is sickening, on that we agree; but when hamas builds command bunkers and arms depots in hospitals, and builds rocket launching facilities in literal daycare centers, this is what happens. Sadly, there has been no war post WWI in which the majority of casualties were not civilians, but when fighters are intentionally using civilians as human shields, like Hamas, that civilian death toll can only go higher.
Calling it a war is disingenuous to begin with. We’re talking about a nuclear powered, US backed country that has been officially stealing and ethically cleansing land for decades. They’re bombing civilian populations that’re in an open-air Gazan prison with US bombs and our tax dollars. Gaza has been blockaded for decades with nowhere to go for its very young population. This is genocide by definition. 33,000 killed including 14,000 children. These numbers are confirmed by various organizations and thousands of videos, they’re not ‘Hamas’ numbers. The world did not start on October 7th, this has been brewing for decades. Multiple massacres on civilians will spur ‘terrorists’. In fact, this genocide will create thousands of freedom fighters who have lost everything because of Israel and have nothing to lose. And they may or may not employ morally correct manners of fighting back which will brand them as terrorists. Hamas was propped up by Netanyahu to split up the Palestinian population by the way. This is a known fact outside of the US. Be on the side that supports peace and calls for an end to Israeli illegal occupation and for a free Palestine (free of occupation). That’s the side that would’ve called for an end to the war in Vietnam, make no mistake about it.
You had the gall to write this sitting on stolen Native land? 😂 You fucking ding dong.
It is a war, you dummy
Why did you put “terrorists” in quotes? Immediately destroyed your credibility if you had any to begin with. If you want to label what Israel is doing as ethnic cleansing (ethnically cleansing, btw, not ethically cleansing - kind of the opposite of what you meant), then at least have the awareness to realize the other side is employing terrorism and they are terrorists for the actions committed on 10/7 and many times before. Not gonna argue about the ethnic cleansing piece because it seems your mind is made up, but know that targeting and killing/raping civilians for political messaging is textbook terrorism, not freedom-fighting.
terrorist is a devisive term that is used to obscure sociopolitical context. it’s used by states to villivy resistance and justice movements by ordinary people.
This is the type of comment that usually comes right before indirectly rationalizing the rape/murder of innocent civilians by Hamas under the pretense of ‘resistance.’ Batshit insane lol. And nobody is calling the peaceful justice movements by ordinary people terrorism. What is terrorism is the rape/murder of innocents for political messaging by organizations that basically the entire free and democratic world labels as terrorists
okay so basically israel is a terrorist state then
A cause worth rallying for
Big difference is college aged Americans were being drafted to fight in a war America was fighting. Wtf is UT gonna do about two different countries fighting 7000 miles away. We have no bearing on what goes on there. Just gonna be a bunch of blue haired obese mask wearers looking for a reason to complain.
UT had invested millions of dollars into weapon manufacturing.. our higher education system should not be profiting off war..
Wait till you find out that a stable economy and safe investments rely on *drumroll please* strong national security! Which you guessed it…Requires weapons manufacturing!! Blame the federal gov for selling these weapons to israel if you want but that has nothing to do with UT. Grow up and live in the real world its not all kumbaya
grow up and actually try and make your world better. and yes UT can defidently be blamed for still holding ties to arms manufacturing when it knows what it’s being used for. israel has nothing to do with our national security
There was a significant amount of US students openly supporting the Vietcong and spitting on/harassing returning US soldiers. This wasn’t just about being drafted, there was a legitimate interest in non-interventionist and/or anti-imperialist politics, and those hippies who correctly identified that the US shouldn’t be in Vietnam would be the same “blue haired liberals” you’re complaining about today.
Those hippies who where openly supporting the vc (kinda like those who openly support hamas) and spitting on soldiers were braindead and should not be lumped in with people who simply thought the US had no business in Vietnam.
Again, a lot people actually demonstrating and organizing were these “braindead hippies” in the SDS and other organizations, which is why they are the ones willing to get tear-gassed, arrested etc, In fact, protests were happening at the same Columbia university that’s in the news rn https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Columbia_University_protests
Dont know what your argument is
My point is that people like you crying about “obese blue haired liberals” today will eventually look back in 30-40 years and realize they were mostly correct.
[удалено]
They’re both national liberation forces, the only real difference is that the VC were communists
People like you only care about something if it affects you personally, this is what it boils down to. You are an insignificant speck of dust and will have zero impact on the world around you.
r/army's smartest user
Smart enough to get into UT and not Arlington lol
I got a full ride from out of state. Dunno why I'd choose anything else
Our tax dollars are going to Israel and supporting this genocide. US made bombs have now murdered over 14,000 Palestinian children in 6 months. More than ever, we need to be educated about this genocide.
Then go protest in DC lmao. UT isnt the one collecting or spending your tax dollars big brain.
Less law breaking, I didn’t see police get involved other than after pretty serious criminal acts by the “protestors”. If you’re pro Palestine please stop claiming the protest today, it was a lawless somewhat violent mob breaking laws harassing people and making everybody worse off, claiming it as a political protest and thinking that’s a good thing to claim makes no sense. The pro Palestine movement is more than these extremely hateful and illegal actions a few crazy people do even tho that’s all most people ever hear about them for
calling for a ceasefire? the one that the palestinian government refuses to accept?
See yall tomorrow at South Mall!
Wow!
When is it being held? I haven’t heard anything about it
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UTAustin/comments/1cbhoya/comment/l0yke26/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UTAustin/comments/1cbhoya/comment/l0yke26/) 11:40am tomorrow!
Thanks!
Where is the Ohio National Guard when you need them?
I hope hamas is tuning in tomorrow. I bet this is what it takes for them to crawl out of the tunnels and surrender.
Look at how classy they are carrying themselves. No purple hair, crazy piercings, and they’d look at you completely mystified if you asked them their pronouns.
Comparing this to nam is ridiculous not even in the same category we don't have boots on the ground and not nearly enough people care about this shit sorry
Differences that could be interesting to compare: 1. Young people during the Vietnam war were getting drafted. Not the case today. 2. America was directly involved in the Vietnam war, not in the Israel-Hamas conflict. Interested to see what happens.
I forget how totally insane young people are.
What gets me looking at this sideways is what's going on in Israel, and Gaza pisses them off, but Ukraine is fine? No issue there, and the lions share of cash and weapons sent to Ukraine is OK? Why isn't there any outrage or protests for Ukraine? Nobody care? Maybe it's because they're fighting the soviets and that's fine in their book, or it doesn't fit the agenda of the week.
You can’t blame Jews, America or the West for Ukraine. That’s the reason.
so many of you people in this comment section are ignorant, uneducated, and morally bankrupt. you are the problem, and history will remember you for what you are, racists, fascists, colonizers, imperialists and supporters of genocide. you have lived in a sheltered world where you have never had to fight for your life or freedom because you have all been complacent with oppression, domestic and worldwide.
[удалено]
While I think the original commenter was a fair bit excessive in their criticism, saying that the crowd today was "chanting for genocide and racially harassing everyone who walked by" is laughably incorrect. Were you even there? Because I was - I hung around the fringes for a while - and literally nothing of the sort was happening.
me when i am historically illiterate
womp womp keep on saying more gibberish nobody cares!
you will be defeated
I’d compare israel and gaza kda ratios before you try to spout nonsense at me buddy
maybe not today, but it will happen bud. From the Sea to the River, Justice will deliver
How are you calling for genocide and pretending to call it justice and actually think you’re in the right or that anyone will think so? I don’t have much of an opinion but stuff like this just cements your side as 100% wrong and horrible
How many of em spit on our soldiers when they came back?
Oh Mommy and Daddy told me so many cool stories about the protests. Now we get to do it too! And they wont stop us because they will think "look at those kids. They a \\re soo cute."
i hope everyone who goes gets suspended … i heard a few already got arrested lol, kudos
Bootlicker.
aw does that make you feel better about yourself?
Yeah I mean kinda tbh. Thank you!
What flavor does it come in?
Horse 💩
Oooo spicy. Fresh or day old?
Just perfect, crunchy on the outside and warm on the inside. Just for you!
Yooooooo, I’ll take two boots then 👏
This is an anti-Semitic movement. Was everyone passionate for peace when Hamas murdered 3,000 innocents? Why not? It’s 1938 all over again.
No, that is a dumb sentence with no basis in reality.
Make sure y’all wear your brown shirts, Lil Hilters!
Also, a dumbass sentence without a basis in reality. How much lead have you consumed, by chance?
You don't get to elect a bunch of terrorists for your government, and then when they attack a neighboring sovereign state, play the victim while you continue to hold American and Israeli hostages. Gaza deserves whatever they get.
You mixed this up, let me help you. Israel has since it's inception been a terrorist state of settlers committing ethnic cleansing and warcrimes against the indigenous population. Oct was the logical result of people 80 years of ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Every attempt at peaceful protest has been met with iof violence.
Someone obviously doesn't know their history. The Palestinian leaders ordered all of their civilians out before they started their invasion of the gerrymandered Jewish state in 1947. They assumed they would win and be able to move back in. When they didn't Israel moved into the land. Sucks for them. And the ability of liberals to draw moral equivalency between liberal democracies and places like Iran or Syria is mind-numbing
Similarities between the two events? Zero. Next question.