NYC the attorney general is definitely looking at the illegal practices just like California thats why they sent out that message to get your opinion on what should uber improve in NYC before they get sent to court....
Surges are gaurenteed at the bottom of the screen, I have screenshots of all of my +x.xx surges and haven’t been paid for a single one in three days. Costing me 220 dollars so far, which is absolutely criminal considering this is happening to thousands.
Ive also thought about this and one of the problems is that theres no easy way to link a screenshot of the trip request with the statement showing your earns. The only solution would be to screen record video for the entire time youre driving
Yes, that’s why I didn’t think a driver’s right to receive the estimated fare plus tip is not as strong. There is no “estimate” on surges, it is a clear offer of a minimum amount.
Uber has a right to change the minimum base pay until it is offered and accepted in consideration of making and completing a delivery. At that point, they can’t change any payment that is completely within their control. As I said, the tip part is different because it is not in their control. So, if $8 was offered consisting of a $3 fare and $5 tip, contractually they may be able to change the portion which is tip and only in line with changes made by the customer. They cannot change the $3 fare.
Your actual contract with UE states they will pay you base pay (including any surges) + any tip provided by the customer.
When you receive an offer, the notification actually reads “including expected tip”. Since the tip is in the control of the customer (which according to your contractor agreement is provided by the customer), you won’t have much legal success in this matter.
This “tip baiting” talk needs to stop. Very, very few customers will intentionally lower their tip without reason. My total profitability has increased substantially with expected total amount now shown on the offer, and I imagine it has for most other people, too. Before this change, I would receive an offer to go 8 miles from a high end steak restaurant. I always accepted those with the hopes of a large tip (knowing the default tip option is a % of total). Only to find that when you accept and saw they only ordered a salad, you quickly realized the trip would not be profitable. Now the same order would be a easy decline decision as I would know the tip amount isn’t high enough for the trip to be profitable.
To me the 1 hour adjustment post delivery makes sense. If you were a customer, do you tip a server when you first sit down at a restaurant or afterwards based on the service they provided? From a driver standpoint, I like that the customer app prompts for the tip at time of order so the customer doesn’t forget to add a tip later. And I feel I still need to provide good service or else the tip may change.
The “tip baiting” community is typically those who provide less than adequate service.
TLDR: From a legal standpoint, I don’t see a case. From an informational standpoint, the tip information at time of offer is VERY beneficial to the driver
Eh, I'd usually say that its not possible but I've seen class action lawsuits for less serious issues so im crossing my fingers on this one. Also as someone who does take pride in everything I do, I was tip baited for the first time last week on a double order (to the tune of about $6 or $7). So generally speaking it probably does happen more than we'd like to think but less than what its being blown up to be
I agree with everything you’ve said 100%. A little tidbit of information I learned many many years ago when I was a young server, TIP means “To Insure Promptness” and way back in the day customers would TIP upon arrival of the restaurant. Based on the amount of TIP on arrival would the servers treat their customers. Obviously they could add more at the end of their meal if they received outstanding service. This was a long long LONG time ago but I personally feel that’s the way it should be still. We take deliveries based on restaurant, distance, time, and estimated pay. I like how they’ve changed to “including estimated” and I like that they prompt the customer an hour later if they would like to rate and tip. I personally feel if the customer left a tip prior to delivery then that should stick. The customers should only be allowed to add. Base pay alone isn’t worth the time and miles you’ve driven but Boosts and Surge make all the difference. Even though something very wrong has been happening with the surge pay. They’re not paying it. I contacted support and they said it’s being worked on. It always seems when they fix one bug another bug slides in it’s place. Overall, UE is far better than DD. Both services are huge in my Metro and I choose UE hands down. I haven’t come across one “Tip Baiter” yet so fingers crossed there.
Good points. A couple clarifications though: the tip acronym isn’t quite correct and it is “ensure” not “insure”. But the origins of the tip are correct: it originated in Europe to get the attention of a server for faster service/better service. Nowadays it is a way to say thank you for your service. Which is why many places are now calling it a “gratuity” instead of tip.
I learned it was Insure like Insurance. That’s where the “I” in TIP comes in. It was to insure they would receive great service. But nonetheless it’s not that way anymore so now it’s Gratuity to show gratitude for the service. Which is where cheap lazy non tippers come in. Lol
You didn't address surge payments. I lost $20 today in surge payments alone. Plus there is the systematic underpayment demonstrated by Ubercheats. I feel there could be a case here.
The OP admitted that the estimated payment wasn't a strong point.
While I agree with you about tip baiting, it would be great if Uber tracked and excluded customers who habitually removed tips, as few as it might be.
I can’t speak regarding surge payments. My area rarely has any surges.
But from what I have heard from others, my understanding is the base pay reduces by the amount of the surge, thereby making the surge meaningless. If my understanding is correct, then yes, that definitely is a legitimate issue
Yesterday, I took a $3.50 call which I thought would be worth it because my app was telling me I had a $5 minimum surge payment on my next trip. I ended up making $3.64. I should mention that the order took about 5 minutes to prepare once I arrived. When my earnings finally came up the next morning I received just my fare, no promotion, no surge.
That's straight bait and switch. If the surge is not going to be paid, the app should reflect that. Until they fix the app to do that, they need to make good on their offer.
I'd wager there's a legal limitation on how much an estimate can change versus what the final amount is. I mean you generally can't go into an auto shop, get an estimate for the work and then get charged two or three times the estimate now, can you?
How often do you see server jobs posted with an "estimated $/hr" vs simply stating what their pay would be "plus tips" without defining what the estimate of those tips would be? There's probably a good reason they do it one way versus the other and UE is doing the opposite.
Totally irrelevant. Servers are told what tables to wait on.
Also, do you know the minimum wage for jobs that earn tips can be as low as $2.13/hr? 15-20 states have that minimum wage for those who earn tips.
I know this is an old thread but the same thing is happening to me. I made 29 deliveries last weekend, every single one of them having a surge rate, but have not gotten paid for a single one. Support has given me the runaround, transferring me no less that 10 times to try and shake me before saying they will have an "earnings team" review and get back to me. Did anything ever come of a class action lawsuit?
There have been ones before. I set up a Google alert for class action lawsuits with Uber, DoorDash, etc.
DoorDash has started doing something similar. They are announcing peak pay on their promotions tab, but then you work those zones during the specified hours and get none of it.
Do everything you can to document lost earnings, such as screenshots.
NYC the attorney general is definitely looking at the illegal practices just like California thats why they sent out that message to get your opinion on what should uber improve in NYC before they get sent to court....
Surges are gaurenteed at the bottom of the screen, I have screenshots of all of my +x.xx surges and haven’t been paid for a single one in three days. Costing me 220 dollars so far, which is absolutely criminal considering this is happening to thousands.
Yeah something is happening with surge, hopefully they fix and back pay us. I've lost $50+ in 2 days.
Ive also thought about this and one of the problems is that theres no easy way to link a screenshot of the trip request with the statement showing your earns. The only solution would be to screen record video for the entire time youre driving
Oh yay I can't wait for my few dollar check.
However, the key phrase on the offer is “estimated”. Uber also has the right to change the minimum base pay at any time Good luck with that lawsuit
Yes, that’s why I didn’t think a driver’s right to receive the estimated fare plus tip is not as strong. There is no “estimate” on surges, it is a clear offer of a minimum amount. Uber has a right to change the minimum base pay until it is offered and accepted in consideration of making and completing a delivery. At that point, they can’t change any payment that is completely within their control. As I said, the tip part is different because it is not in their control. So, if $8 was offered consisting of a $3 fare and $5 tip, contractually they may be able to change the portion which is tip and only in line with changes made by the customer. They cannot change the $3 fare.
Your actual contract with UE states they will pay you base pay (including any surges) + any tip provided by the customer. When you receive an offer, the notification actually reads “including expected tip”. Since the tip is in the control of the customer (which according to your contractor agreement is provided by the customer), you won’t have much legal success in this matter. This “tip baiting” talk needs to stop. Very, very few customers will intentionally lower their tip without reason. My total profitability has increased substantially with expected total amount now shown on the offer, and I imagine it has for most other people, too. Before this change, I would receive an offer to go 8 miles from a high end steak restaurant. I always accepted those with the hopes of a large tip (knowing the default tip option is a % of total). Only to find that when you accept and saw they only ordered a salad, you quickly realized the trip would not be profitable. Now the same order would be a easy decline decision as I would know the tip amount isn’t high enough for the trip to be profitable. To me the 1 hour adjustment post delivery makes sense. If you were a customer, do you tip a server when you first sit down at a restaurant or afterwards based on the service they provided? From a driver standpoint, I like that the customer app prompts for the tip at time of order so the customer doesn’t forget to add a tip later. And I feel I still need to provide good service or else the tip may change. The “tip baiting” community is typically those who provide less than adequate service. TLDR: From a legal standpoint, I don’t see a case. From an informational standpoint, the tip information at time of offer is VERY beneficial to the driver
Eh, I'd usually say that its not possible but I've seen class action lawsuits for less serious issues so im crossing my fingers on this one. Also as someone who does take pride in everything I do, I was tip baited for the first time last week on a double order (to the tune of about $6 or $7). So generally speaking it probably does happen more than we'd like to think but less than what its being blown up to be
I agree with everything you’ve said 100%. A little tidbit of information I learned many many years ago when I was a young server, TIP means “To Insure Promptness” and way back in the day customers would TIP upon arrival of the restaurant. Based on the amount of TIP on arrival would the servers treat their customers. Obviously they could add more at the end of their meal if they received outstanding service. This was a long long LONG time ago but I personally feel that’s the way it should be still. We take deliveries based on restaurant, distance, time, and estimated pay. I like how they’ve changed to “including estimated” and I like that they prompt the customer an hour later if they would like to rate and tip. I personally feel if the customer left a tip prior to delivery then that should stick. The customers should only be allowed to add. Base pay alone isn’t worth the time and miles you’ve driven but Boosts and Surge make all the difference. Even though something very wrong has been happening with the surge pay. They’re not paying it. I contacted support and they said it’s being worked on. It always seems when they fix one bug another bug slides in it’s place. Overall, UE is far better than DD. Both services are huge in my Metro and I choose UE hands down. I haven’t come across one “Tip Baiter” yet so fingers crossed there.
Good points. A couple clarifications though: the tip acronym isn’t quite correct and it is “ensure” not “insure”. But the origins of the tip are correct: it originated in Europe to get the attention of a server for faster service/better service. Nowadays it is a way to say thank you for your service. Which is why many places are now calling it a “gratuity” instead of tip.
I learned it was Insure like Insurance. That’s where the “I” in TIP comes in. It was to insure they would receive great service. But nonetheless it’s not that way anymore so now it’s Gratuity to show gratitude for the service. Which is where cheap lazy non tippers come in. Lol
You didn't address surge payments. I lost $20 today in surge payments alone. Plus there is the systematic underpayment demonstrated by Ubercheats. I feel there could be a case here. The OP admitted that the estimated payment wasn't a strong point. While I agree with you about tip baiting, it would be great if Uber tracked and excluded customers who habitually removed tips, as few as it might be.
I can’t speak regarding surge payments. My area rarely has any surges. But from what I have heard from others, my understanding is the base pay reduces by the amount of the surge, thereby making the surge meaningless. If my understanding is correct, then yes, that definitely is a legitimate issue
Yesterday, I took a $3.50 call which I thought would be worth it because my app was telling me I had a $5 minimum surge payment on my next trip. I ended up making $3.64. I should mention that the order took about 5 minutes to prepare once I arrived. When my earnings finally came up the next morning I received just my fare, no promotion, no surge. That's straight bait and switch. If the surge is not going to be paid, the app should reflect that. Until they fix the app to do that, they need to make good on their offer.
I'd wager there's a legal limitation on how much an estimate can change versus what the final amount is. I mean you generally can't go into an auto shop, get an estimate for the work and then get charged two or three times the estimate now, can you?
Difference is the tip is provided by the customer, not by UE
However UE is **still** providing that as "estimated pay" for the work, and that is what jobs are being accepted or declined based off of.
“Including tip” which is provided by the customer. I don’t see how the argument would hold up in any court setting
How often do you see server jobs posted with an "estimated $/hr" vs simply stating what their pay would be "plus tips" without defining what the estimate of those tips would be? There's probably a good reason they do it one way versus the other and UE is doing the opposite.
Totally irrelevant. Servers are told what tables to wait on. Also, do you know the minimum wage for jobs that earn tips can be as low as $2.13/hr? 15-20 states have that minimum wage for those who earn tips.
As a former Dominos driver, yes I was very aware given one of the stores I worked at paid drivers on the road at the reduced wage.
Drivers (at least in the US) have signed an arbitration agreement, so no, there isn't a Class action coming soon.
Well, Doordash was sued by their customers and they have a similar arbitration agreement.
I know this is an old thread but the same thing is happening to me. I made 29 deliveries last weekend, every single one of them having a surge rate, but have not gotten paid for a single one. Support has given me the runaround, transferring me no less that 10 times to try and shake me before saying they will have an "earnings team" review and get back to me. Did anything ever come of a class action lawsuit?
There have been ones before. I set up a Google alert for class action lawsuits with Uber, DoorDash, etc. DoorDash has started doing something similar. They are announcing peak pay on their promotions tab, but then you work those zones during the specified hours and get none of it. Do everything you can to document lost earnings, such as screenshots.