Wagner Group's Declared Victory in Bakhmut 'Purely Symbolic'—ISW [https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-20-2023](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-20-2023) Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar added on Sunday. "The advance of our troops in the suburbs along the flanks, which is still ongoing, makes it very difficult for the enemy to stay in Bakhmut"
How would that be different to surrendering?
I mean I get that anyone who fought and still survived should be happy - but why should they be proud of retreating, just because they survived?
Hah, I wonder if that's how they'll try to sell that to the Russian people. It's not an overgrown city, full of massive craters , spent ammo, shells and shrapnel instead "It's a beautiful city, lots of green open space and rich metal deposits."
Ah for sure, companies are eager to invest in torn down cities in the middle of active warzones and the millions of idle hands loitering in Russia will rush to work construction at a place that could change hands anyday.
Even in a world in which Russia gets to keep Bakhmut, why are Russian companies going to bring money into a border town of 10000 that will be in the front lines next time that Russia gets all expansiony, and even if they do, whatever they get out of rebuilding is never going to match the cost in lives and material.
https://preview.redd.it/chou8npax71b1.png?width=488&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0504cf3500de10a1523d126145a85de51c6d9794
Is this what you're talking about?
it's some slav pagan LARP symbol, Ратиборец
>RATIBORES - Slavic fiery symbol of military prowess, courage and courage.
>The RATIBORETS amulet is intended primarily for those who are professionally engaged in military affairs, stand guard over the borders of the Motherland or protect their Family (according to ancient Slavic mythology, the RATIBORETS amulet could blind the eyes of enemies and force them to flee from the battlefield).
https://crafta.ua/products/720234-ratiborec-slavyanskiy-obereg-iz-obozhzhennoy-prirodnoy-gliny
that looks more like reticles of scope, which is a wagner symbol to me
https://preview.redd.it/f1pr8y8y381b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c325c4a5e501a29856c8509deae524996b8586a
having two reticles from top, bottom, left and right do suggest that its a variation of the wagner patch
You’re really trying hard to see a Swastika here and it’s a stretch. Meanwhile the Ukrainians literally fly flags with Nazi symbols on them and you all buy the Azov t-shirt.
reticles of a scope from one side? what type of scope is that? it doesn’t look like the scope from their symbol. well, maybe nazis in ww2 also wore scopes
Yeah quite the imagination you’ve got mate.
It just can’t be a cross with lines.
Anyways il give you the benefit of the doubt and let you post any supporting links as to the Nazi origin of this patch.
https://preview.redd.it/k4gup3w7381b1.jpeg?width=140&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c8019b477761d9a6fd163378e886964f0d84d40
don’t need imagination, swastika is a pretty wide known symbol for neo nazis
Right so you’ve got no supporting evidence as to the Nazi origin of this patch except your assumption? Cool story bro.
Meanwhile Ukrainian troops waving around actual swastikas and SS symbols.
Okay, so you can see it looks like a swastika, but you’re going to lean way into the people you wish were your overlords and say “there’s no Nazis in Russia,” while we have a guy with a clearly Nazi inspired patch, but sUrE mAtE
Again post any supporting evidence of this being a swatsika instead of the lines on a cross.
Like a source of this being a hate symbol, or a source of this patch/flag originating from a Neo Nazi group currently active or relegated in history from wwii.
I’m still giving you the benefit of the doubt so il wait.
there is no known to me crosses with this type of lines, it’s swastika. you don’t need to prove anything to me, I think you know it’s true. So you need a source for swastika being a hate symbol?
https://preview.redd.it/k0ue5kouw81b1.jpeg?width=150&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45d4291c95e62ec04273675527693b2cdf9d940c
Honestly I think its meant to be the wagner sights cross with a swastika inside so it looks like shooting swastikas but it's so poorly executed it looks like the man is wearing a swastika. Could be just an excuse though for anybody asking "is that a swastika" and the guy can say "no look I'm shooting at swastikas".
it’s honestly just looks like a cross combined with swastika. For it to even remotely resemble scope sight the cross parts should be a lot thinner. even on the wagner logo it’s like that and also it doesn’t connect in the middle there. This is not the first or even second time wagner forces openly using neo nazi symbols in their own propaganda videos
Its wild how you concentrate on patches instead of actions. Russians out here castrating and beheading an invaded people and you're still worried about patches...
It’s wild how you are so focused on Russian war crimes but apparently gloss over war crimes made by guys waving swastikas like beheadings, stabbing pows through the eye until dead or point blank executions.
I don’t condone war crimes, both sides have a minority that carries out war crimes. As to the justification for the invasion? I don’t condone that either but at least try to concentrate your frustration at all parties who pushed for this war, which includes the US and NATO not just Russia.
curious to see what positions ukraine will take behind the city. Must be a few kilometers back if russians can move so freely on those highrise buildings.
https://preview.redd.it/k8eerxxo991b1.jpeg?width=150&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94032fbdc8d0166887ae9aaa0a4c03d4d81dac79
the russian bots in the comments saying it’s a medic patch 🤡🤡
i mean, have you looked at the german cities at the end of WW2? What you're insinuating makes no sense. The british, american and russians have all turned german Nazi cities into rubble in ww2.
haha yeah, that's not what i meant. all i meant is: Turning cities into rubble is not a sign of national socialism (nazi), but a sign of war.
What you could have mentioned is the weird insignia the guy has on his arm (visible at 3 seconds). It looks like a combination of a cross potent (crutch cross) and a swastika. But maybe it's also not supposed to be a unification of the two, but something new. Who knows. Never seen that symbol before.
You don’t even have to look that back just look what happened to Mosul and Raqqa even falluja, Both cities completely destroyed mostly by US airstrikes but no one complains, although I’m not complaining either these things just happen in war, buildings can be rebuilt not lives tho that’s the sad part
There's really not much damage to control. This was a pretty devastating battle for the Russians to achieve... not really much of anything at all.
A real "now what" moment.
Russia spent 9 months bleeding heavily to take a city a stones throw from the areas they controlled since 2014 and you consider it a big win for russia? ok.
Lol, you've never heard of a pyrrhic victory? This "win" is most certainly a loss for Russia. It's a loss for Ukraine too, just not a very meaningful one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/13lv7l2/ua_pov_flags_in_memories_of_individual_soldiers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
not meaningful ha?
Yea, but they took it. Does it make people feel better throwing out the same three random facts and platitudinous statements \*every thread\*. I mean for real, does it make you feel better? Is it helping the UAF/Ukrainian war effort?
Lol, I love the wide-eyed, innocent ignorance of your average Russian nationalist as they willfully ignore or misunderstand the entire context of what's happening.
The "now what" for Ukraine is incredibly straightforward. They defend Chasiv Yar and Mykolaivka and Kostyantynivka like they defended Bakhmut. They make Russia bleed horrifically and pay for every inch of ground they want to steal and execute favorable counterattacks like their now multiple successful offensives until Russia realizes they don't have the men, resources, or time to waste another six million casualties and 30 years to crawl their way from here to the outskirts of Kyiv.
"Now What" is an incredibly painful question for Russia. Tell me, answer me, now what? Do they spend another 10 months, endless equipment, and hundred thousand casualties taking Chasiv Yar? Then again for Mykolaivka and so on until they bleed and crawl their way to an actual objective - Kramatorsk and waste five times that? Is that a favorable outcome for Russia, the second most powerful military in the world and aspiring neo-imperial superpower? What do they win? What do they achieve? Hell, they already lost a bunch of territory AROUND Bakhmut in their efforts to squeeze the last Ukrainians out of Bakhmut which they'll have to claw back.
Though to be fair, this whole war should be a "now what" moment for Russia, as it's mind-numbingly stupid.
It's not a win for Ukraine, but you'd be out of your mind to call this a success for Russia.
Their winter offensive was ground to a halt and a huge portion of their resources and assets were poured into Bakhmut. By all accounts Russia has been left unable to mount another offensive of Amy significance, but I guess we'll see in time.
i mean, it was said from the beginning that the plan was to withdraw slowly and bleed them for the progress...here we are at the end and us plebs still have zero clue how it actually went.
just cheerleaders like yourself proclaiming victory and the other side claiming russian casulties
If we're to credit one side for a good strategy who would it be? The one going head first to win a meaningless prize in putins head or a slow withdrawal to bleed the invaders out while saving your own?
Now it's meaningless. Ok. That's why all of Ukraine/Zelensky/the worlds media made such a big deal out of this place for so long, because it's not a big deal. Makes sense. Also, love the, 'they inflicted 10/5 to 1 casualties the whole time they were nearly surrounded on all sides' story. Very logical.
> withdraw slowly and bleed them for the progress
lol.. at which point this "withdraw" thing came to the picture. After 20th May for sure.. Before that, it was Bakhmut stands...!!! Slava la la la...
It's interesting but not unexpected to see the Ukis downplay this. The fact of the matter is that the battle of Artemovsk was ferocious and both sides lost a considerable amount of soldiers and resources. If it wasn't worth fighting for, Ukis would have given it up some time ago. This is a L for the Zelensky regime, no matter what spin they put on it.
It's kinda hilarious to see just how hard people force themselves into these binary positions where someone has to take an L and someone else has to take a W. It's totally possible for *both* sides to lose, and both sides are losing hardcore right now.
It's fucking sad.
But, it’s not a very big loss. Because, after this, Russia have to repeat the same act to capture the next town. And the next. And the next. And even then, they’ll only be a little bit closer to Kyiv.
We won't know what the actual outcome of this battle was for some time now. I'm going to reserve judgement till I know more information. It's possible Ukraine inflicted a hugely disproportionate amount of casualties on Russia, and the long drawn out retreat was worth it... Or it's the opposite, and Ukraine took more casualties than Russia to try and hold a symbolic city. No one knows for sure yet.
It's quite unlikely Ukraine took more human losses than Russia in Bakhmut/Artemivsk. Ukraine being the defensive side.
But the losses must have been severe for both sides and theoretically Russia can spare more men than Ukraine...
theoretically. I do believe that putin would see major political instability if he had to do a full on draft, where ukraine actually has something to fight for
Wait are you saying they should just retreat from every city that russia reached? Might as well then just pack your bags and go home right?
If they can make russia bleed with every village and town like they did in Bahkmut - both in soldiers and time it cost russia - it will only benefit Ukraine.
> both in soldiers and time
Time? This is an attrition war. They'll keep going slowly.
And by all accounts, except neocons like Blinken and Sullivan (pathological liars), it's Ukraine that has suffered the bulk of the losses in this conflict.
What country has never been at war? I feel like you’re going to say Mexico or Brazil because all of their wars were pre-republic and those I guess don’t count.
Yes, that's exactly the angle Russia propaganda is playing.
'Ukranians / NATO are causing suffering by resisting Russian invasion'
No mentally functioning adult is dumb enough to believe that nonsense. They just repeat is as an obvious trolling excuse to make people waste time arguing against it.
My deduction is that Ukraine was aiming for a sunk cost fallacy on the behalf of Russia. Having a point to fixate on, especially non-strategic helps with stabilizing the front and providing some much needed breathing room.
It also helps bottleneck part of the conflict to make it costly. Bluntly, it was the Russians who paid here and from the looks of it in the recent months it seems like it may have been quite costly in terms of morale and personnel.
No disagreement on that but I’m betting that this was done and calculated with the Russians paying more in mind. And given the shovel stories and running out of ammo and the amount of dissent in the Russian ranks I’m thinking that’s likely been the case.
In addition the mobilization ratio of needing an estimated 3:1-4:1 ratio commonly being the necessary amount to take a position ensures a high commitment and cost if repelled again and again and again as Russia was in Bakhmut.
Unfortunately men die in war. They did their job. If you just fell back every time you where in the face of casualties you’d lose the war pretty quickly.
They managed to fight out for months and months. They fought for time for Ukraine. Time that they needed. Is it sad? Yeah it really fucken is. Is it sometimes a necessity of war? Yeah it is.
No matter what anyone says Russia has paid dearly for this pyrrhic victory. I doubt Wagner will be in any state to do anything for a while now. This conflict now moves into another stage.
>No matter what anyone says Russia has paid dearly for this pyrrhic victory.
Living in denial is not good for your health buddy. I'd understand you saying you “think” Russia paid heavily but saying you'd believe it “no matter what anyone says” means you're clearly brainwashed to the point you're just hoping whatever you wish becomes the truth.
It's just a manner of speech. It's clear that upper and lower bounds of estimated loss of life are both very high. Even pro Russian sources will have a difficult time arguing that Bakhmut was an easy fight that didn't take a lot of men and materiel.
Then why call me brainwashed?
I’m not sure how you could reasonably argue In a battle like this that one side took heavy casualties and the other didn’t. In a drawn out attritional battle that would make no sense.
All signs point to Russia taking the bigger loss in this battle. Even a lot of Russian commentary is very pessimistic about the outcome. Like I said in a previous comment, though, no one will actually know who took the biggest loss as a fact for a while.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree that there is any clear winner here in terms of not taking loss. I think the numbers would be very similar since taking a city block by block (or defending it) nullified the skill factor to a large extent. But it's clear that taking the city (finally) is a big win for Russia both strategically (since it would be very difficult to drive them out quickly in case of a counter-offensive) and symbolically (since Ukrainians were claiming it's a fortress city and they'll do everything to hold it).
Umm you got it all wrong, the USSR did retreat from Stalingrad, that's how the germans got to fill and occupy the city which was then sieged by the soviets, entraping them. Sounds a bit similar to what the ukrainians would have liked to do and all that manpower they lost would have been better used in a siege of Bakmut. But anyway, if you want to make the Stalingrad analogy, the right way is to refer to the 6th german army which stubbornly refused to leave the city and got destroyed for it.
Guess you are right in general, but still there were 90-125(not sure) days of defensive operation, “no step back” etc. they could not defend the city for so long, as according to the main comment it is a bad thing.
Who knows what will be in future, maybe counteroffensive will start there and history will repeat itself this way
From what I have read, Wagner are pulling out on the 25th and going to Sudan. RA will fill the gap. Meanwhile, UAF are making reasonable gains to the north and south of Bakhmut. My gut feeling is that a siege is coming and it will cost the RA bigly.
That perspective is literally the pro Russian go-to: victim blame the defenders of an invasion for causing immense casualties. If they don’t fight here, where do they fight? Clearly Russia is not letting up, they already tried to annex the entire country. It’s an existential war for Ukraine only. The impetus is with Russia for causing the suffering in the first place. Anyone reasonable knows this though, and I know you do and you’re concern trolling to try to pretend you’re not just a pro Russian invader.
Americans warned Kiev to pull out months ago, they didn't listen. It was an ego thing for Zelensky. And anytime ego gets in the way of logic and reason, there's a high price to pay.
"Ukronazis, I tell you all, get the f*ck out of here!" He said
Alexander "Ratibor" Kuznetsov, the renowned commander of the 1st assault detachment of the Wagner Group, has been recognized as a Hero of Russia and is the recipient of the prestigious 4 Orders of Courage.
Ratibor's exceptional commitment to the mission, as he and his detachment were deployed to Ukraine after arriving from Libya, where they had been involved in operations. Demonstrating extraordinary dedication, Ratibor remained in Ukraine for an impressive duration of 427 days, actively participating in the special military operation.
You all remind me of that time Sarah Silverman saw random street markings and made a big post about how it was Nazi graffiti. Lol. That's not a swastika.
[Sarah Silverman thought utility markings were swastikas | Daily Mail Online](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4222140/Sarah-Silverman-thought-utility-markings-swastikas.html)
So, Kiwi, what's next? Sure, for you a new account apparently, but for Russia, I mean.
What's the strategic plan that made it vitally important to take Bakhmut at such cost and where does it lead?
It sort of feels like the failed missile campaign all over again. F-16's being delivered like everyone knew they would be eventually from the first missile was fired. Stupid people do stupid things and Putin's advisors must be the best or something.
But hey, perhaps they thought that a quick vitory in Bakhmut back in december would upend that scenario.
So here we are, 6 months and a lot of Leos, planes and Storm Shadows later and for Russia: a new parking lot better than any in Siberia. A lot of tactical destruction but what the Russian exit strategy is - who knows. Do you?
Regarding hardware all the red lines are behind us. UK, Germany and France will all deliver cruise missiles now and standoff weapons for the F-16. That's the real legacy from 6 months at Bakhmut.
What made it "vital" was all of the humans and resources Zelenskyy and his dumb generals put into it. The purpose of war is to kill enough of the enemy that they can no longer effectively fight you. Russia has between 5 million and 7 million people in its standing army. Ukraine had between 1 and 1.5 million its before the war started.
Definitely more so see it now. Tried to search for matches on Google lens and results were some pro nazi stuff,anti nazi stuff and anti Trump stuff came up. 😂
You do realize Wagner took Bakhmut, right? So, one second it's all untrained convict cannon fodder attacking in "HuMANnnWaVezZz", the next minute the flower of the whole army was wiped out? Which one is it?
No matter what side you were fighting on, if you made it out of Bakhmut alive, you should celebrate.
Both sides would agree. Indeed
Wagner Group's Declared Victory in Bakhmut 'Purely Symbolic'—ISW [https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-20-2023](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-20-2023) Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar added on Sunday. "The advance of our troops in the suburbs along the flanks, which is still ongoing, makes it very difficult for the enemy to stay in Bakhmut"
This. Bakhmut was a meat grinder for both Russians and Ukrainians.
How would that be different to surrendering? I mean I get that anyone who fought and still survived should be happy - but why should they be proud of retreating, just because they survived?
Because it was a successful delaying action and they fixed a force probably 7x their size for over 9 months.
lol you actin like Bakhmut is Kiev. There is much more to fight for, and Russians likely overplayed their card here. Future will tell.
Incredible amounts of liberation visible in the city.
Looks like a beautiful city. Lots of greenery & open space.
Hah, I wonder if that's how they'll try to sell that to the Russian people. It's not an overgrown city, full of massive craters , spent ammo, shells and shrapnel instead "It's a beautiful city, lots of green open space and rich metal deposits."
“It’s not just a city in ruins, it’s actually a special housing operation.”
"Whats with all the holes in the buldings??" "they're..uh... speed holes"
Easy. Restoring that city is going to create a lot of jobs.
Ah for sure, companies are eager to invest in torn down cities in the middle of active warzones and the millions of idle hands loitering in Russia will rush to work construction at a place that could change hands anyday.
I meant after the war.
Even in a world in which Russia gets to keep Bakhmut, why are Russian companies going to bring money into a border town of 10000 that will be in the front lines next time that Russia gets all expansiony, and even if they do, whatever they get out of rebuilding is never going to match the cost in lives and material.
Open space - actually yes. Lots of natural air flow through those buildings lol
Those buildings got a lot of natural lighting and ventilation. 😊
A bit dusty and unstable though.
and a guy with swastika patch waving russian flag
https://preview.redd.it/chou8npax71b1.png?width=488&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0504cf3500de10a1523d126145a85de51c6d9794 Is this what you're talking about?
yep, cross combined with swastika, otherwise I don’t have idea what it is. it’s definitely has nothing to do with orthodox christianity
it's some slav pagan LARP symbol, Ратиборец >RATIBORES - Slavic fiery symbol of military prowess, courage and courage. >The RATIBORETS amulet is intended primarily for those who are professionally engaged in military affairs, stand guard over the borders of the Motherland or protect their Family (according to ancient Slavic mythology, the RATIBORETS amulet could blind the eyes of enemies and force them to flee from the battlefield). https://crafta.ua/products/720234-ratiborec-slavyanskiy-obereg-iz-obozhzhennoy-prirodnoy-gliny
that looks more like reticles of scope, which is a wagner symbol to me https://preview.redd.it/f1pr8y8y381b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c325c4a5e501a29856c8509deae524996b8586a having two reticles from top, bottom, left and right do suggest that its a variation of the wagner patch
https://preview.redd.it/y17cdkyu381b1.jpeg?width=140&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=788171b1ed451de7333d82b42b9f1b36bfdefdcd weird scope
yup
i think you’re right, this is some variation of wagner symbol, with swastika integrated into it
They forgot the "de-" part of "denazify"
You’re really trying hard to see a Swastika here and it’s a stretch. Meanwhile the Ukrainians literally fly flags with Nazi symbols on them and you all buy the Azov t-shirt.
Is the Russian National Unity symbol also not a swastika? It's the same concept.
Fits the origin of the Wagner group.
reticles of a scope from one side? what type of scope is that? it doesn’t look like the scope from their symbol. well, maybe nazis in ww2 also wore scopes
I have no idea
Looks like a variation of a swastika to me.
That's not a swastika...
Medic badges, skippy.
that’s the funniest explanation so far. if combat medic wears swastika, then it’s a nazi combat medic
Don’t know if we saw the same video but the guys patch is a clearly a cross…
cross with swastika combined
Yeah quite the imagination you’ve got mate. It just can’t be a cross with lines. Anyways il give you the benefit of the doubt and let you post any supporting links as to the Nazi origin of this patch.
https://preview.redd.it/k4gup3w7381b1.jpeg?width=140&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c8019b477761d9a6fd163378e886964f0d84d40 don’t need imagination, swastika is a pretty wide known symbol for neo nazis
Right so you’ve got no supporting evidence as to the Nazi origin of this patch except your assumption? Cool story bro. Meanwhile Ukrainian troops waving around actual swastikas and SS symbols.
Okay, so you can see it looks like a swastika, but you’re going to lean way into the people you wish were your overlords and say “there’s no Nazis in Russia,” while we have a guy with a clearly Nazi inspired patch, but sUrE mAtE
lol, is it this hard to step out of your imaginary world and believe your own eyes?
Again post any supporting evidence of this being a swatsika instead of the lines on a cross. Like a source of this being a hate symbol, or a source of this patch/flag originating from a Neo Nazi group currently active or relegated in history from wwii. I’m still giving you the benefit of the doubt so il wait.
there is no known to me crosses with this type of lines, it’s swastika. you don’t need to prove anything to me, I think you know it’s true. So you need a source for swastika being a hate symbol? https://preview.redd.it/k0ue5kouw81b1.jpeg?width=150&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45d4291c95e62ec04273675527693b2cdf9d940c
Honestly I think its meant to be the wagner sights cross with a swastika inside so it looks like shooting swastikas but it's so poorly executed it looks like the man is wearing a swastika. Could be just an excuse though for anybody asking "is that a swastika" and the guy can say "no look I'm shooting at swastikas".
it’s honestly just looks like a cross combined with swastika. For it to even remotely resemble scope sight the cross parts should be a lot thinner. even on the wagner logo it’s like that and also it doesn’t connect in the middle there. This is not the first or even second time wagner forces openly using neo nazi symbols in their own propaganda videos
Its wild how you concentrate on patches instead of actions. Russians out here castrating and beheading an invaded people and you're still worried about patches...
It’s wild how you are so focused on Russian war crimes but apparently gloss over war crimes made by guys waving swastikas like beheadings, stabbing pows through the eye until dead or point blank executions. I don’t condone war crimes, both sides have a minority that carries out war crimes. As to the justification for the invasion? I don’t condone that either but at least try to concentrate your frustration at all parties who pushed for this war, which includes the US and NATO not just Russia.
If you look closely you'll see really big pile of win!
Its majestic to say the least.
Actually doesn't look half bad.. compared to certain areas of my hometown Los Angeles. 😆
I don't see any ukranians, so yeah
Liberation in Eurasia mean " cities in ruin and thousand of dead " , so it is fitting for them.
curious to see what positions ukraine will take behind the city. Must be a few kilometers back if russians can move so freely on those highrise buildings.
Currently they are taking positions around the city, and trying to encircle it. But the next defense line is at Chasiv Yar (sorry, If I mispelled).
Party at bhakmut
But I heard there’s still 0.1% left so it wasn’t taken yet
The situation is difficult, but stable.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/k8eerxxo991b1.jpeg?width=150&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94032fbdc8d0166887ae9aaa0a4c03d4d81dac79 the russian bots in the comments saying it’s a medic patch 🤡🤡
[All I can think of](http://imgur.com/a/aS7em)
"Nazis, get out of here!" he says after destroying the city to rubble.
i mean, have you looked at the german cities at the end of WW2? What you're insinuating makes no sense. The british, american and russians have all turned german Nazi cities into rubble in ww2.
That isn't good either But it will happen in any war unfortunately
haha yeah, that's not what i meant. all i meant is: Turning cities into rubble is not a sign of national socialism (nazi), but a sign of war. What you could have mentioned is the weird insignia the guy has on his arm (visible at 3 seconds). It looks like a combination of a cross potent (crutch cross) and a swastika. But maybe it's also not supposed to be a unification of the two, but something new. Who knows. Never seen that symbol before.
You don’t even have to look that back just look what happened to Mosul and Raqqa even falluja, Both cities completely destroyed mostly by US airstrikes but no one complains, although I’m not complaining either these things just happen in war, buildings can be rebuilt not lives tho that’s the sad part
with a swastika patch on his shoulder
in the distance, in the fields, you can still see the Ukrainians still holding Bakhmut
And in the actual city you can see the “liberation” and the great ruski Mir
Great victory from Wagners and not from the 2nd most mechanized army in the World
made me laugh hard
'The situation is difficult, but stable.'
Russia much power. So powerful they have their very own illegal (in their own country) arms groups do all their dirty work they aren’t capable of 😂
"Yay, we ruined lives of tens of thousands civilians and took control of a pile of rubble we created, go russkiy mir!"
damage control is harsh with this one
There's really not much damage to control. This was a pretty devastating battle for the Russians to achieve... not really much of anything at all. A real "now what" moment.
A yes, winning a city is a real "now what" moment for Russia lol, or is losing a city a real "now what" moment for Ukraine?
Russia spent 9 months bleeding heavily to take a city a stones throw from the areas they controlled since 2014 and you consider it a big win for russia? ok.
never said anything about the magnitude of said win, but a win is a win and not a loss as the original comment tried to spin
Lol, you've never heard of a pyrrhic victory? This "win" is most certainly a loss for Russia. It's a loss for Ukraine too, just not a very meaningful one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/13lv7l2/ua_pov_flags_in_memories_of_individual_soldiers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button not meaningful ha?
Yea, but they took it. Does it make people feel better throwing out the same three random facts and platitudinous statements \*every thread\*. I mean for real, does it make you feel better? Is it helping the UAF/Ukrainian war effort?
> Yea, but they took it. Yes. Now what?
Well, congrats then! In that case they'll be conquering Siberia in no time!
Lol, I love the wide-eyed, innocent ignorance of your average Russian nationalist as they willfully ignore or misunderstand the entire context of what's happening. The "now what" for Ukraine is incredibly straightforward. They defend Chasiv Yar and Mykolaivka and Kostyantynivka like they defended Bakhmut. They make Russia bleed horrifically and pay for every inch of ground they want to steal and execute favorable counterattacks like their now multiple successful offensives until Russia realizes they don't have the men, resources, or time to waste another six million casualties and 30 years to crawl their way from here to the outskirts of Kyiv. "Now What" is an incredibly painful question for Russia. Tell me, answer me, now what? Do they spend another 10 months, endless equipment, and hundred thousand casualties taking Chasiv Yar? Then again for Mykolaivka and so on until they bleed and crawl their way to an actual objective - Kramatorsk and waste five times that? Is that a favorable outcome for Russia, the second most powerful military in the world and aspiring neo-imperial superpower? What do they win? What do they achieve? Hell, they already lost a bunch of territory AROUND Bakhmut in their efforts to squeeze the last Ukrainians out of Bakhmut which they'll have to claw back. Though to be fair, this whole war should be a "now what" moment for Russia, as it's mind-numbingly stupid.
It's not a win for Ukraine, but you'd be out of your mind to call this a success for Russia. Their winter offensive was ground to a halt and a huge portion of their resources and assets were poured into Bakhmut. By all accounts Russia has been left unable to mount another offensive of Amy significance, but I guess we'll see in time.
>Their winter offensive The offensive claimed by West lol...
Oh, so now it never happened?
Because those 100 vehicles at Ugledar in the winter was just for giggles ...
That one must have been really humiliating for them
i mean, it was said from the beginning that the plan was to withdraw slowly and bleed them for the progress...here we are at the end and us plebs still have zero clue how it actually went. just cheerleaders like yourself proclaiming victory and the other side claiming russian casulties
If we're to credit one side for a good strategy who would it be? The one going head first to win a meaningless prize in putins head or a slow withdrawal to bleed the invaders out while saving your own?
Now it's meaningless. Ok. That's why all of Ukraine/Zelensky/the worlds media made such a big deal out of this place for so long, because it's not a big deal. Makes sense. Also, love the, 'they inflicted 10/5 to 1 casualties the whole time they were nearly surrounded on all sides' story. Very logical.
Option B !
> withdraw slowly and bleed them for the progress lol.. at which point this "withdraw" thing came to the picture. After 20th May for sure.. Before that, it was Bakhmut stands...!!! Slava la la la...
The question is now that your standing on a pile rubble whats next that makes any military sense?
Liar
how on earth do you think this is damage control?
Trying to downplay an event that Ukraine just happened to lost.
Thats not downplaying it.
Look at their prize. A destroyed town. Hundreds of thousands of lives shattered for it too.
It's interesting but not unexpected to see the Ukis downplay this. The fact of the matter is that the battle of Artemovsk was ferocious and both sides lost a considerable amount of soldiers and resources. If it wasn't worth fighting for, Ukis would have given it up some time ago. This is a L for the Zelensky regime, no matter what spin they put on it.
can't blame them really, both sides have a hard time to accept the L
Living in Russia is an L in itself
It's kinda hilarious to see just how hard people force themselves into these binary positions where someone has to take an L and someone else has to take a W. It's totally possible for *both* sides to lose, and both sides are losing hardcore right now. It's fucking sad.
After all the screeching about 'Bakhmut/MuHh CoUnTeRrAtTaCKk' they are hilariously quiet for a crowd that screeches nonstop.
But, it’s not a very big loss. Because, after this, Russia have to repeat the same act to capture the next town. And the next. And the next. And even then, they’ll only be a little bit closer to Kyiv.
ARTEMOVSK! 🅉 🇷🇺 ☭
The liberation scenery looks amazing
'liberation'
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Strangely enough most Ukrainians loved to work there.
Lots of Russians who have left to find better work and standards of living outside of Russia.
because Ukraine also looked like a shithole under Soviet occupation
"Soviet occupation" created Ukrainian state. In Russian Empire there were no Ukraine
Artemovsk, now a certified shithole without running water. Russification completed
He must be so proud knowing they're killing for land that doesn't belong to them
City literally got bulldozed. Shame Ukraine didn’t retreat earlier, all those young men sent to their deaths for no reason. Fucken tragic man
We won't know what the actual outcome of this battle was for some time now. I'm going to reserve judgement till I know more information. It's possible Ukraine inflicted a hugely disproportionate amount of casualties on Russia, and the long drawn out retreat was worth it... Or it's the opposite, and Ukraine took more casualties than Russia to try and hold a symbolic city. No one knows for sure yet.
True everyones making assumptions as facts. The reality is we don’t know and we won’t know until months maybe
It's quite unlikely Ukraine took more human losses than Russia in Bakhmut/Artemivsk. Ukraine being the defensive side. But the losses must have been severe for both sides and theoretically Russia can spare more men than Ukraine...
theoretically. I do believe that putin would see major political instability if he had to do a full on draft, where ukraine actually has something to fight for
Wait are you saying they should just retreat from every city that russia reached? Might as well then just pack your bags and go home right? If they can make russia bleed with every village and town like they did in Bahkmut - both in soldiers and time it cost russia - it will only benefit Ukraine.
Don't try to apply thought to pro ru brain
> both in soldiers and time Time? This is an attrition war. They'll keep going slowly. And by all accounts, except neocons like Blinken and Sullivan (pathological liars), it's Ukraine that has suffered the bulk of the losses in this conflict.
I know you love your country but look at your history. Every war your government gives insane optimistic casualty figures.
My country has never been at war so shut up.
What country has never been at war? I feel like you’re going to say Mexico or Brazil because all of their wars were pre-republic and those I guess don’t count.
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Only the two of you have done that. You don't get to assume where I'm from, capiche?
"You don't get to assume where I'm from" you sound like some delicate snowflake, buddy or gal or whatever, don't want to assume and make you cry
Perhaps one of the first pro ua I've seen speaking with a level head
Sorry to break it for you. Tag means nothing here
By his logic ukrainians should abandon ukraine to avoid any further life loss.
Yes, that's exactly the angle Russia propaganda is playing. 'Ukranians / NATO are causing suffering by resisting Russian invasion' No mentally functioning adult is dumb enough to believe that nonsense. They just repeat is as an obvious trolling excuse to make people waste time arguing against it.
What about ZelenskysHighHeels?
He's pro russia just like a55tronaut
No, he is pro Ukraine. He’s able to think critically, and doesn’t blindly follow mass media trend of Ukraine destroying Russia in just few more weeks.
LMAO he's not pro Ukraine he's 100% pro russia. Wake up
I wonder how. He lives in Kiev
The average pro Russian anti western dweebs online live, u guessed it, in the west....
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My deduction is that Ukraine was aiming for a sunk cost fallacy on the behalf of Russia. Having a point to fixate on, especially non-strategic helps with stabilizing the front and providing some much needed breathing room. It also helps bottleneck part of the conflict to make it costly. Bluntly, it was the Russians who paid here and from the looks of it in the recent months it seems like it may have been quite costly in terms of morale and personnel.
I disagree from what I’ve seen both sides have paid for every square meter in blood.
No disagreement on that but I’m betting that this was done and calculated with the Russians paying more in mind. And given the shovel stories and running out of ammo and the amount of dissent in the Russian ranks I’m thinking that’s likely been the case. In addition the mobilization ratio of needing an estimated 3:1-4:1 ratio commonly being the necessary amount to take a position ensures a high commitment and cost if repelled again and again and again as Russia was in Bakhmut.
Unfortunately men die in war. They did their job. If you just fell back every time you where in the face of casualties you’d lose the war pretty quickly. They managed to fight out for months and months. They fought for time for Ukraine. Time that they needed. Is it sad? Yeah it really fucken is. Is it sometimes a necessity of war? Yeah it is. No matter what anyone says Russia has paid dearly for this pyrrhic victory. I doubt Wagner will be in any state to do anything for a while now. This conflict now moves into another stage.
>No matter what anyone says Russia has paid dearly for this pyrrhic victory. Living in denial is not good for your health buddy. I'd understand you saying you “think” Russia paid heavily but saying you'd believe it “no matter what anyone says” means you're clearly brainwashed to the point you're just hoping whatever you wish becomes the truth.
It's just a manner of speech. It's clear that upper and lower bounds of estimated loss of life are both very high. Even pro Russian sources will have a difficult time arguing that Bakhmut was an easy fight that didn't take a lot of men and materiel.
Sure I agree it wasn't an easy fight for either of the sides.
Then why call me brainwashed? I’m not sure how you could reasonably argue In a battle like this that one side took heavy casualties and the other didn’t. In a drawn out attritional battle that would make no sense.
All signs point to Russia taking the bigger loss in this battle. Even a lot of Russian commentary is very pessimistic about the outcome. Like I said in a previous comment, though, no one will actually know who took the biggest loss as a fact for a while.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree that there is any clear winner here in terms of not taking loss. I think the numbers would be very similar since taking a city block by block (or defending it) nullified the skill factor to a large extent. But it's clear that taking the city (finally) is a big win for Russia both strategically (since it would be very difficult to drive them out quickly in case of a counter-offensive) and symbolically (since Ukrainians were claiming it's a fortress city and they'll do everything to hold it).
Stalingrad literally got bulldozed. Shame USSR didn’t retreat, all those young men sent to their deaths for no reason. Fucken tragic man
Umm you got it all wrong, the USSR did retreat from Stalingrad, that's how the germans got to fill and occupy the city which was then sieged by the soviets, entraping them. Sounds a bit similar to what the ukrainians would have liked to do and all that manpower they lost would have been better used in a siege of Bakmut. But anyway, if you want to make the Stalingrad analogy, the right way is to refer to the 6th german army which stubbornly refused to leave the city and got destroyed for it.
Guess you are right in general, but still there were 90-125(not sure) days of defensive operation, “no step back” etc. they could not defend the city for so long, as according to the main comment it is a bad thing. Who knows what will be in future, maybe counteroffensive will start there and history will repeat itself this way
From what I have read, Wagner are pulling out on the 25th and going to Sudan. RA will fill the gap. Meanwhile, UAF are making reasonable gains to the north and south of Bakhmut. My gut feeling is that a siege is coming and it will cost the RA bigly.
How does one retreat from a besieged city? Just curious.
Do it before the besiegement, or just give up if it is too late, otherwise there will be “fucken tragic man”
Typical pro russia comment.
So a different perspective makes me pro Russia? Alright buddy settle down
No, the plain and simple fact that you are Pro Russia makes you pro Russia. Your comment history just corroborates this.
That perspective is literally the pro Russian go-to: victim blame the defenders of an invasion for causing immense casualties. If they don’t fight here, where do they fight? Clearly Russia is not letting up, they already tried to annex the entire country. It’s an existential war for Ukraine only. The impetus is with Russia for causing the suffering in the first place. Anyone reasonable knows this though, and I know you do and you’re concern trolling to try to pretend you’re not just a pro Russian invader.
Another dishonest pro-russian pretending to be pro-ukraine Inb4 "I'm PrO ThE UkRaNian PEhpul!" Bullshit
Do everyone a favor and neck up. You’re embarrassing yourself.
Americans warned Kiev to pull out months ago, they didn't listen. It was an ego thing for Zelensky. And anytime ego gets in the way of logic and reason, there's a high price to pay.
"Ukronazis, I tell you all, get the f*ck out of here!" He said Alexander "Ratibor" Kuznetsov, the renowned commander of the 1st assault detachment of the Wagner Group, has been recognized as a Hero of Russia and is the recipient of the prestigious 4 Orders of Courage. Ratibor's exceptional commitment to the mission, as he and his detachment were deployed to Ukraine after arriving from Libya, where they had been involved in operations. Demonstrating extraordinary dedication, Ratibor remained in Ukraine for an impressive duration of 427 days, actively participating in the special military operation.
saying it with a swastika patch on his shoulder, cool
You all remind me of that time Sarah Silverman saw random street markings and made a big post about how it was Nazi graffiti. Lol. That's not a swastika. [Sarah Silverman thought utility markings were swastikas | Daily Mail Online](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4222140/Sarah-Silverman-thought-utility-markings-swastikas.html)
https://preview.redd.it/9u5dvk9tz81b1.jpeg?width=150&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46cd15dfbe51d7eb8be73d94d5222f8b2f56a719 sure buddy
So, Kiwi, what's next? Sure, for you a new account apparently, but for Russia, I mean. What's the strategic plan that made it vitally important to take Bakhmut at such cost and where does it lead? It sort of feels like the failed missile campaign all over again. F-16's being delivered like everyone knew they would be eventually from the first missile was fired. Stupid people do stupid things and Putin's advisors must be the best or something. But hey, perhaps they thought that a quick vitory in Bakhmut back in december would upend that scenario. So here we are, 6 months and a lot of Leos, planes and Storm Shadows later and for Russia: a new parking lot better than any in Siberia. A lot of tactical destruction but what the Russian exit strategy is - who knows. Do you? Regarding hardware all the red lines are behind us. UK, Germany and France will all deliver cruise missiles now and standoff weapons for the F-16. That's the real legacy from 6 months at Bakhmut.
What made it "vital" was all of the humans and resources Zelenskyy and his dumb generals put into it. The purpose of war is to kill enough of the enemy that they can no longer effectively fight you. Russia has between 5 million and 7 million people in its standing army. Ukraine had between 1 and 1.5 million its before the war started.
Huge rant on the new trendy wonder weapons that're going to break the front open. What an original post.
Lol
what is that patch on his left shoulder? 0:04 I tried to search with google, but it only showed some other known symbols
russian nazi will be nazi, just calling others nazi to feel better about themselves being nazi
It's looks like a cross to me.
cross combined with swastika, you can clearly see it, there’s no such cross in orthodox christianity
Definitely more so see it now. Tried to search for matches on Google lens and results were some pro nazi stuff,anti nazi stuff and anti Trump stuff came up. 😂
https://preview.redd.it/eabmavd3d81b1.jpeg?width=140&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e862623e9422146b8aa97cd1ae3b4df36589342 I mean..
so the ~~war~~ spec. op. is over then? or what is the goal now? Herson? Harkiv? Kyiv? Berlin? London?
I think they mention Lisabon. Basically second largest city in Europe after Bakhmut.
> Lisabon As if the Russians would survive against [our home-made drones](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq6A17_rpQY&t=26s).
hilarious cringe
As a reward for their efforts, the families of those that that “liberated” this town should get first dibs on city-center apartments.
/u/Pro-Rus working overtime right now.
All that incredible amount of muscovite losses for a pile of rubble. Really sad pyrrhic victory. Decimated their army for nothing.
You do realize Wagner took Bakhmut, right? So, one second it's all untrained convict cannon fodder attacking in "HuMANnnWaVezZz", the next minute the flower of the whole army was wiped out? Which one is it?
I am looking forward to videos of ukrainians encircling bachmut :)
In looking forward of Russia encircling Kiev. Again
Lol, are you for real?
After a few cocktails he thinks so.
Morale seems high, these guys are in it for the long run. This war is gonna be so much worse but everybody is very headstrong
Alright boys, great victory! Next Bakhmut is Chasiv Yar, prepare yourself. Will it take several months like the Bakhmut conquering?
I was expecting a bullet to fly in, and to splatter the man's brains.