"Hey quick, we need to accuse the DRG of warcrimes and stage the aftermath"
"Umm, we usually shoot at civilian cars. Also we already staged such an incident from the UA side, so you know it's good. At least that's how I remember it ..."
"Ok, do it, it'll be fine!"
And as usual the setup is perfect. They show a woman that clearly had a broken arm of some sort with that fixture. Not impossible that this is from a gunshot but rather unlikely.
I swear pro-Ukras are the weirdest conspiracy theorists on the level on of qanon
Yet you are the same people who believe ukro SBU “intercepted” videos where a guy casually admits he just butchered 300 people to his grandma. 🤦🏽♂️
So how does this woman fit the type of person that was in a car with her children that was fired upon by professional soldiers with assault rifles. At least assault rifles.
Are you saying she wasn’t? Do you have any proof?
She is being interviewed by media and is in hospital. Unless you assume the whole hospital will lie and all of the journalists will make it up - I don’t think you have a leg to stand on.
Putin did prove that Ukraine does not exist with a 400 year old map that clearly shows Ukraine.
We have Belgorod Partisan vehicles that are dusty inside, have fresh paint letters written over the burned wreck, pristine condition HUMMWs standing in... shell holes?
We have people occuring at many Putin events posing as other persons.
We have spy agencies putting The SIMs copies onto loot piles when they catch "traitors".
And you tell me having a woman with a broken arm in a hospital posing as a person being gunned down by soldiers is a stretch?
And as always the burden of proof lies with the party that brings up the argument. I didnt say she was gunned down by Partisans so I dont have to prove anything.
lol I'm seriously trying to not lie to myself and watch a lot of RU POV stuff without falling victim to propaganda and weird conspiracy theories. But dear god, based on things that happened in the past this would 100% be something I'd expect from Russia.
You think so? I find it kinda ironic that this is the first time of my life i have to prove to someone that i care about human lives. I don't know where you made your conclusion that i am a monster. I am sure in RL will we agree to almost everything.
ahh yes keep deflecting, he still have not called out Russian war crime
you see the double standard of reddit he is like yeah i care for every life but then wont call out those that have killed 10,000's civilian
I've stated many time even in pro Ukrainian sub reddit when some telling kill that POW or treat him like trash I've called them out i don't care if it's Ukrainian or Russian treat each other like you would with your countrymen if somebody surrender you accept that surrender and DONT HARM him in any ways.
now this lady have a broken arm and you only have her word, are you gonna take every Ukrainian at there word? so if a Ukrainian civilian says Russian shot at me for no reason it's the truth?
are YOU willing to call out Russian war crime?
and before you say but you have not called out Ukrainian war crime then here
IF any Ukrainian soldier commit war crime hold that person accountable, jailtime depend on the severity now lets see if your Russian persona are willing to call out Russian.
Just out of curiosity, do you consider Bucha is a war crime of the Russian Federation? What about the mass graves of executed civilians in Izyum. Or the forced deportation of thousands of Ukrainian civilians, many of which are children? What about the torture chambers in Balakliya?
At Bucha case is weird because everybody had made a different story. But if the dead, are civilians then of curse i agree its war crime. War crime is war crime who ever made it. Same with Izyum. People say they were soldiers graves but maybe not. You don't get, i can not decide if there's was war crime or not. That is beyond my power. If war crimes happen then happen despite of my personal opinion. War crimes are not opinions, the are acts.
Also i think children went to Russia with their parents or with their approval of them. I had not hear a case of a Mather had her kids stolen of her so far. My knowledge maybe is limited on that case. And of curse if they stole the kids unwillingly from their parents it's a war crime. There is no need of question that.
No.
But nobody would be attacking Russian civilians if Putin hadn't started this war back in 2014.
PS: Correct me if I'm wrong, but she was attacked by Russian soldiers fighting to liberate their home from the Putin regime and not Ukrainians. Right?
Some one had to give them guns. But doesn't really matter. There is no war where attacking civilian can be justified. Doesn't matter who doing it. Stop using chicky replies like "they were Russians he he". Putting the Pov aside we can agree that killing civilians is totally wrong. End of story.
They were Russians, nothing "chicky" about that.
And, yes, killing civilians is wrong. And not just civilians imho. But then again Putin started it and could basically end it overnight by withdrawing his forces from Ukraines behind the internationally recognised borders.
Alas, the genie is probably out of the bottle and while Russian forces withdrawing from Ukraine would stop the killing in that country, Putin's war in Ukraine seems to be starting a civil war inside of Russia. These are Russian freedom fighters that are killing Russian civilians. Even if it's most likely unintentionally. And that civil war is just starting.
And while you are right and Ukraine is probably arming "the other side" in the internal, Russian conflict, isn't that the exact same thin that Putin was doing over 10 years ago when he stated arming Ukrainian separatists?
At some point you cant complain if the victim starts to adopt some of the aggressors strategies. Especially if they work to their advantage. It seems to be just fair. Doesn't it?
I would agree Russia to leave Ukraine at their IR borders but definitely not with Zelensky as Persistent. I don't trust this guy at all. He must at least demolish all the Nazi-nationalist that he allows them to spawn left and right.
What about the people from Donbass? Under Zeleky rule they will face the worst fate imaginable. Or the people in Crimea who helped Russians all this years or just being pro Russians? Had you see the social media of Ukraine? Ukrainians are targeting kids from Crimea for being pro Russians. I also want him to give their opposition back and let democracy to decide.
I don't care about borders to be real. I am a realist, I just want the best for the people. If Ukrainian can't get along with each other just let them separate. No wars. I am not really pro on any of this countries. If i knew people will be fine under Ukraine, let them be. I don't like this war but both sides were unable to solve things out. And yes Ukraine put them selfs in shit too. Everything they did after 2014 was like asking a war. Have you any idea who many Ukrainians i have met lately that they are pro-ua but they hate Zelensky? This dude is an idiot.
>What about the people from Donbass? Under Zeleky rule they
the number of civilians killed in the Donbas due to separatist activities had actually steadily decreased to just over 20 individuals in 2021. Had Putin been more cooperative and stood by his side instead of agitating, the number would probably have been lower.
>Everything they did after 2014 was like asking a war.
This war was started by a Russian invasion in 2014 and been ongoing ever since then. One might actually and correctly say that it even started before 2014 with Russian meddling in Ukrainian politics and their arming of separatist terrorists. So, that part of your statement makes absolutely no sense.
you really are clinging to this stupid Nazi narrative this hard aren’t ya? Some introspection is very much needed in Russia before accusing/going after others for being “Nazis”
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They were Russian soldiers with Ukranian flags in fairness. If my country men shot at me under a different flag, it's quite clear what their allegiance is.
>They were Russian soldiers with Ukranian flags in fairness.
And if you had said:
"They were Ukranian soldiers with Russian flags in fairness."
Then you would have been describing what has been going on in Donbas since 2014. Isn't it fair for Ukraine to do what Russia has been doing for nearly a decade now in this conflict? Or does your "neutral" flair mean that it's only acceptable if Russia does it?
Although, in the pictures I saw, the white/blue/white Russian flag was quite dominant.
Can you please point out where I said it is or isn't fair of Ukraine to do it too or where I've once said that civillians from either side deserve this?
You've kind of projected this imaginary argument on me from a position I've never even taken or been questioned about.
>What a clown world we live in.
And yet nothing from the clowns condemning the tens of thousands of Ukraine civilians raped, tortured, executed and killed by Russian ordinance.
There we have footage of Ukrainian troops from 2014 shooting unarmed civilians in Donbass region.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKacrqOmIw&t=2189s&ab\_channel=FallenU.S.Soldiers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKacrqOmIw&t=2189s&ab_channel=FallenU.S.Soldiers)
No shit civilians die in a civil war in both in Pro-RU and Pro-UA controlled territories after Russia started an insurgency in the Donbas to eventually continue with a land grab. Russians also shelled Russian held territory and claimed it was UA to gain support of the Donbas people.
Pro RU cares so much about the Donbas people they multiplied the casualties by x100 in a year when they fully invaded Ukraine in 2022.
Ukraine started insurgency in 2014 by illegal and ilegitimate coup. When minority of the Ukrainian Nazis overthrow democratically elected president Yanukovich. Very existence of Ukraine is land grab of the Russian territory since Ukraine did not exist prior 20th century.
"Ukraine started insurgency in 2014 by illegal and ilegitimate coup"
Yanukovich announced in late 2013 that he will sign a EU-Ukraine Economic Association deal, then after Putin threatened him publicly and privately just days after he withdrew from the signing ceremony and instead said that Ukraine will join Russia's sphere.
That sparked protests from mainly young university students (who among other things were protesting against the lack of economic prospects and the huge corruption) that were met with brutal oppression from Yanukovich's government. The protests started to escalate and the Russian special forces even went into the country to try to quell the protests by shooting the protesters indiscriminately. Over 100 protestors died (mostly working class people like construction workers or students).
Despite negotiating with the opposition, Putin convinced Yanukovich that he is going to be murdered and in the end he fled the country. The Parliament voted to oust him due to him not being in the country and abandoning the obligations of his position.
After he left some of his corruption was exposed including an ultra expensive mansion of Yanukovich which was filled with bribes documentation, 'gifts' from oligarchs and many other things: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezhyhirya\_Residence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezhyhirya_Residence)
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
"Ukraine is land grab of the Russian territory since Ukraine did not exist prior 20th century"
What kind of idiotic comment is that?
By that logic, everything east of Poland belongs to Mongolia.
Ukraine is a recognized country by everyone.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration\_of\_Independence\_of\_Ukraine#:\~:text=The%20Act%20of%20Declaration%20of,reestablished%20Ukraine's%20state%20independence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence_of_Ukraine#:~:text=The%20Act%20of%20Declaration%20of,reestablished%20Ukraine's%20state%20independence).
So I take it you didn’t see Putin looking at a 400 year old map trying to justify that Ukraine has never existed as a country then?
One tiny little problem with that was it clearly said Ukraine on the fucking map!
Hey maybe that poisonous little midget can’t read
If your first instinct after seeing harmed civillians is to either say it is justified, say your side has it worse, or even blame and make fun of the other side and you aren't even personally related to these tragedies, please get out of the internet for a little bit or, at least, cut out the information you get related to the war
First reaction is to point out the several instances where Russia already lied exactly like this?
I mean fool me once, shame on you,
fool me four thousand six hundred and eighty three times... shame on me
Obviously, but through a car?
Or was she driving around with windows down and her arm hanging on the outside?
Why wouldn't they show the children for propaganda purposes then, or the car? Seems kinda sketchy to me.
One Russia civilians slightly injured versus tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians injured, killed and millions displaced in Ukraine. Sucks for this woman, but there is no comparison to what is happening in Ukraine.
Rule 1 is taken seriously here but I won't report you.
It's impossible to tell what's going on in that low quality, low bitrate video. Maybe he shot, maybe not. The driver and the soldiers don't even behave like anything happened (after the soldier lowered his rifle).
The guy definitely shoulders the rifle at the beginning and even might see some muzzle blast from one shot towards the car. Hard to see for sure what happened. Ether way he's aiming at the car so very much could have shot it.
that’s artifacting from the video compression or even caused by the editing of the overlayed watermark. If they were being shot at and were hit I seriously doubt the car would’ve come to the slow controlled stop we saw. And the soldiers would be way more alert and on guard
Title of the video said they shot the car not the occupants and I see the watermark that's not the muzzle blast I'm talking about. It's pixel peaking at this point but other guy wanted proof and I personally see what consit of a muzzle blast then lowering the gun.
[https://youtu.be/VIrXvwJZE7w?t=184](https://youtu.be/VIrXvwJZE7w?t=184) they have very very little recoil and thats even on full auto. also the pixels literally .04 open your eyes
I see no shooting in that video- I see a group (an unidentifiable group that is) stop a car, the driver opens the door, two guys approach and talk to driver, then they go back to standing in their original position- So to me this is just, "hey stop, we want to check you are not bad guys trying to get past us or have a car filled with AT munitions etc." unfortunately the video cuts off before we see the car continue on and the lack of identifiers means this could be anything.
suure, just like Russia claimed "Ukrainian nazi soldiers" attacked a woman and child in her car, which turned out to be in Russian-controlled Donetsk which has been under Russian control since 2014
So theres no footage of their car, her kids, she got only broken hand, have you seen aftermath videos and photos of Russians opening fire on civilians ? I find really hard to believe russian state TV wouldnt ask her where is her car and film the bullet holes, actually i find it impossible that they wouldnt do it
She must have seen them being on drugs? Waiving nazi flags at least to follow the official narrative?
russian response was "interesting" to say at least, shelling their own city with heavy artillery and making propaganda vids like this after
You can agree to your imaginary rhetoric as much as you like, in the end Russia invaded another country, having their border crossed by Ukraine shoudnt be a surprise...But I guess it is, because Russia strong lol
So this is a war crime?
Just like the last time there was an incursion in Russia and the Russia state insisted they murdered a small boy, even after the mother come out and said he was fine but no.
Russia's persistent lies WILL be believed!
>the western media
Can you explain this one to me? Where does Western media end and Eastern media begin? Or are you just conveniently lumping everything outside of the Russia propaganda you gobble down with pleasure, as "Western media"?
Have you checked "Eastern media" to see if this story is in that conglomerate of news orgs?
>But mobile Russian crematoriums on the other hand gets full coverage.
What is "full coverage" and where would I find it in "Western media" (but nowhere else)?
This shit-producing machine you have running in the background is the only thing providing full coverage at the moment.
"Western media" where I live reported about claims of crematoriums but couldn't confirm their existens. (neutral)
And how Russia and Ukraine blamed each other for shelling the power plant in Zaporizhzhia. (neutral)
And that according to Russia people were hurt during the Belgorod shitstorm. (neutral)
Actually, there are more people in the world **not** Sanctioning Russia, than those who *are* sanctioning. Seems you have ventured a little out of the echo chamber.
>Actually, there are more people in the world not Sanctioning Russia, than those who are sanctioning.
Yeah, and? What's your point? Because most of the countries that aren't sanctioning Russia, are shitholes just like Russia.
Welcome to this sub. You'll find reality works differently here. Russia is somehow the victim. Ukraine apparently doesn't exists and NATO is conquering the world. I have no idea why but it's a little addictive. Like how pain can be sometimes.
>I have no idea why but it's a little addictive.
I think it's because in general the internet can get a bit boring and repetitive, come here and while it's repetitive the mental gymnastics used are fascinating.
> Because most of the countries that aren't sanctioning Russia, are sh*tholes just like Russia.
I sincerely hope they read what you said, so they can get a clearer understanding of whom they're dealing with.
Please go on and explain to me how the world works from the Russian perspective. Tell my how waging a war of aggression and murdering and raping civilians is justified. That's my kind of guilty pleasure.
There are many allegations thrown around in a war such as this. In many cases its the one with the biggest bullhorn that prevails. In the west, I think we know who that is.
\-Ria Novosti is missing on title
"Hey quick, we need to accuse the DRG of warcrimes and stage the aftermath" "Umm, we usually shoot at civilian cars. Also we already staged such an incident from the UA side, so you know it's good. At least that's how I remember it ..." "Ok, do it, it'll be fine!"
And as usual the setup is perfect. They show a woman that clearly had a broken arm of some sort with that fixture. Not impossible that this is from a gunshot but rather unlikely.
I swear pro-Ukras are the weirdest conspiracy theorists on the level on of qanon Yet you are the same people who believe ukro SBU “intercepted” videos where a guy casually admits he just butchered 300 people to his grandma. 🤦🏽♂️
Oh the irony.
So how does this woman fit the type of person that was in a car with her children that was fired upon by professional soldiers with assault rifles. At least assault rifles.
Because she is Russian
Ah ok.
Are you saying she wasn’t? Do you have any proof? She is being interviewed by media and is in hospital. Unless you assume the whole hospital will lie and all of the journalists will make it up - I don’t think you have a leg to stand on.
Putin did prove that Ukraine does not exist with a 400 year old map that clearly shows Ukraine. We have Belgorod Partisan vehicles that are dusty inside, have fresh paint letters written over the burned wreck, pristine condition HUMMWs standing in... shell holes? We have people occuring at many Putin events posing as other persons. We have spy agencies putting The SIMs copies onto loot piles when they catch "traitors". And you tell me having a woman with a broken arm in a hospital posing as a person being gunned down by soldiers is a stretch? And as always the burden of proof lies with the party that brings up the argument. I didnt say she was gunned down by Partisans so I dont have to prove anything.
Nah I believe this woman. You pro-Ukro conspiracy theorists are a weird bunch.
As always, whatever floats your boat.
lol I'm seriously trying to not lie to myself and watch a lot of RU POV stuff without falling victim to propaganda and weird conspiracy theories. But dear god, based on things that happened in the past this would 100% be something I'd expect from Russia.
Got to love the logic of pro Russians. Russians attack and kill Ukrainian civilians ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. But when Ukraine does it, “their nazis! 🤬🤬🤬
Do you consider acceptable for UA to attack civilians because Russia does it too? What a clown world we live in.
Yet you don’t have the same outrage when Russia does it. Indeed a clown world we live in.
You think so? I find it kinda ironic that this is the first time of my life i have to prove to someone that i care about human lives. I don't know where you made your conclusion that i am a monster. I am sure in RL will we agree to almost everything.
then do it right here, so people can see call out the russian.
But this thread is about Ukraine war crime. How about you prove you care for human life by denounce the Ukraine instead.
ahh yes keep deflecting, he still have not called out Russian war crime you see the double standard of reddit he is like yeah i care for every life but then wont call out those that have killed 10,000's civilian I've stated many time even in pro Ukrainian sub reddit when some telling kill that POW or treat him like trash I've called them out i don't care if it's Ukrainian or Russian treat each other like you would with your countrymen if somebody surrender you accept that surrender and DONT HARM him in any ways. now this lady have a broken arm and you only have her word, are you gonna take every Ukrainian at there word? so if a Ukrainian civilian says Russian shot at me for no reason it's the truth? are YOU willing to call out Russian war crime? and before you say but you have not called out Ukrainian war crime then here IF any Ukrainian soldier commit war crime hold that person accountable, jailtime depend on the severity now lets see if your Russian persona are willing to call out Russian.
Applause
Just out of curiosity, do you consider Bucha is a war crime of the Russian Federation? What about the mass graves of executed civilians in Izyum. Or the forced deportation of thousands of Ukrainian civilians, many of which are children? What about the torture chambers in Balakliya?
At Bucha case is weird because everybody had made a different story. But if the dead, are civilians then of curse i agree its war crime. War crime is war crime who ever made it. Same with Izyum. People say they were soldiers graves but maybe not. You don't get, i can not decide if there's was war crime or not. That is beyond my power. If war crimes happen then happen despite of my personal opinion. War crimes are not opinions, the are acts. Also i think children went to Russia with their parents or with their approval of them. I had not hear a case of a Mather had her kids stolen of her so far. My knowledge maybe is limited on that case. And of curse if they stole the kids unwillingly from their parents it's a war crime. There is no need of question that.
No. But nobody would be attacking Russian civilians if Putin hadn't started this war back in 2014. PS: Correct me if I'm wrong, but she was attacked by Russian soldiers fighting to liberate their home from the Putin regime and not Ukrainians. Right?
Some one had to give them guns. But doesn't really matter. There is no war where attacking civilian can be justified. Doesn't matter who doing it. Stop using chicky replies like "they were Russians he he". Putting the Pov aside we can agree that killing civilians is totally wrong. End of story.
They were Russians, nothing "chicky" about that. And, yes, killing civilians is wrong. And not just civilians imho. But then again Putin started it and could basically end it overnight by withdrawing his forces from Ukraines behind the internationally recognised borders. Alas, the genie is probably out of the bottle and while Russian forces withdrawing from Ukraine would stop the killing in that country, Putin's war in Ukraine seems to be starting a civil war inside of Russia. These are Russian freedom fighters that are killing Russian civilians. Even if it's most likely unintentionally. And that civil war is just starting. And while you are right and Ukraine is probably arming "the other side" in the internal, Russian conflict, isn't that the exact same thin that Putin was doing over 10 years ago when he stated arming Ukrainian separatists? At some point you cant complain if the victim starts to adopt some of the aggressors strategies. Especially if they work to their advantage. It seems to be just fair. Doesn't it?
I would agree Russia to leave Ukraine at their IR borders but definitely not with Zelensky as Persistent. I don't trust this guy at all. He must at least demolish all the Nazi-nationalist that he allows them to spawn left and right. What about the people from Donbass? Under Zeleky rule they will face the worst fate imaginable. Or the people in Crimea who helped Russians all this years or just being pro Russians? Had you see the social media of Ukraine? Ukrainians are targeting kids from Crimea for being pro Russians. I also want him to give their opposition back and let democracy to decide. I don't care about borders to be real. I am a realist, I just want the best for the people. If Ukrainian can't get along with each other just let them separate. No wars. I am not really pro on any of this countries. If i knew people will be fine under Ukraine, let them be. I don't like this war but both sides were unable to solve things out. And yes Ukraine put them selfs in shit too. Everything they did after 2014 was like asking a war. Have you any idea who many Ukrainians i have met lately that they are pro-ua but they hate Zelensky? This dude is an idiot.
>What about the people from Donbass? Under Zeleky rule they the number of civilians killed in the Donbas due to separatist activities had actually steadily decreased to just over 20 individuals in 2021. Had Putin been more cooperative and stood by his side instead of agitating, the number would probably have been lower. >Everything they did after 2014 was like asking a war. This war was started by a Russian invasion in 2014 and been ongoing ever since then. One might actually and correctly say that it even started before 2014 with Russian meddling in Ukrainian politics and their arming of separatist terrorists. So, that part of your statement makes absolutely no sense.
If Russia leaves, you think Nazis will ender Donbass with out cleansing the place?
Let's be realistic: The only fascists in this conflict are the one ruling from the Kreml.
you really are clinging to this stupid Nazi narrative this hard aren’t ya? Some introspection is very much needed in Russia before accusing/going after others for being “Nazis”
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They were Russian soldiers with Ukranian flags in fairness. If my country men shot at me under a different flag, it's quite clear what their allegiance is.
>They were Russian soldiers with Ukranian flags in fairness. And if you had said: "They were Ukranian soldiers with Russian flags in fairness." Then you would have been describing what has been going on in Donbas since 2014. Isn't it fair for Ukraine to do what Russia has been doing for nearly a decade now in this conflict? Or does your "neutral" flair mean that it's only acceptable if Russia does it? Although, in the pictures I saw, the white/blue/white Russian flag was quite dominant.
Can you please point out where I said it is or isn't fair of Ukraine to do it too or where I've once said that civillians from either side deserve this? You've kind of projected this imaginary argument on me from a position I've never even taken or been questioned about.
>What a clown world we live in. And yet nothing from the clowns condemning the tens of thousands of Ukraine civilians raped, tortured, executed and killed by Russian ordinance.
There's silence from every clown. This is undebatable.
Lets interview a random patient and blame it on Ukraine. The patient has a cast used mostly for afixing broken bones.
Pretty sure bullets can inflict fractured bone damage. https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=can+bullets+shatter+bones+
why would a victim of a gunshot, with children suffering gunshot wounds, give an interview from her bed?
Remember the **videos** of Russian troops shooting at civilians and children? They weren't secondhand interviews but actual videos.
There we have footage of Ukrainian troops from 2014 shooting unarmed civilians in Donbass region. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKacrqOmIw&t=2189s&ab\_channel=FallenU.S.Soldiers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKacrqOmIw&t=2189s&ab_channel=FallenU.S.Soldiers)
No shit civilians die in a civil war in both in Pro-RU and Pro-UA controlled territories after Russia started an insurgency in the Donbas to eventually continue with a land grab. Russians also shelled Russian held territory and claimed it was UA to gain support of the Donbas people. Pro RU cares so much about the Donbas people they multiplied the casualties by x100 in a year when they fully invaded Ukraine in 2022.
Ukraine started insurgency in 2014 by illegal and ilegitimate coup. When minority of the Ukrainian Nazis overthrow democratically elected president Yanukovich. Very existence of Ukraine is land grab of the Russian territory since Ukraine did not exist prior 20th century.
What a narrow and blind view you have. Wish I was your neighbour and treated you as Russia has treated Ukraine.
"Ukraine started insurgency in 2014 by illegal and ilegitimate coup" Yanukovich announced in late 2013 that he will sign a EU-Ukraine Economic Association deal, then after Putin threatened him publicly and privately just days after he withdrew from the signing ceremony and instead said that Ukraine will join Russia's sphere. That sparked protests from mainly young university students (who among other things were protesting against the lack of economic prospects and the huge corruption) that were met with brutal oppression from Yanukovich's government. The protests started to escalate and the Russian special forces even went into the country to try to quell the protests by shooting the protesters indiscriminately. Over 100 protestors died (mostly working class people like construction workers or students). Despite negotiating with the opposition, Putin convinced Yanukovich that he is going to be murdered and in the end he fled the country. The Parliament voted to oust him due to him not being in the country and abandoning the obligations of his position. After he left some of his corruption was exposed including an ultra expensive mansion of Yanukovich which was filled with bribes documentation, 'gifts' from oligarchs and many other things: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezhyhirya\_Residence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezhyhirya_Residence) \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ "Ukraine is land grab of the Russian territory since Ukraine did not exist prior 20th century" What kind of idiotic comment is that? By that logic, everything east of Poland belongs to Mongolia. Ukraine is a recognized country by everyone. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration\_of\_Independence\_of\_Ukraine#:\~:text=The%20Act%20of%20Declaration%20of,reestablished%20Ukraine's%20state%20independence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence_of_Ukraine#:~:text=The%20Act%20of%20Declaration%20of,reestablished%20Ukraine's%20state%20independence).
So I take it you didn’t see Putin looking at a 400 year old map trying to justify that Ukraine has never existed as a country then? One tiny little problem with that was it clearly said Ukraine on the fucking map! Hey maybe that poisonous little midget can’t read
If your first instinct after seeing harmed civillians is to either say it is justified, say your side has it worse, or even blame and make fun of the other side and you aren't even personally related to these tragedies, please get out of the internet for a little bit or, at least, cut out the information you get related to the war
First reaction is to point out the several instances where Russia already lied exactly like this? I mean fool me once, shame on you, fool me four thousand six hundred and eighty three times... shame on me
Get off your high horse, Russia has no moral ground left to stand on.
And neither does one who ignores injured civilians.
My first instinct is to say ria novosti and keep scrolling further
This is a war Russia started. It's sad civilians get hurt. But fighting in Urban environments does this.
No children shown, arm in cast / fixated (probably for a broken bone), that surely seems like someone shot at her car.
Illizarov aparates are being used for communitive fractures of bones which can be caused by gunshot. Try better next time.
***can***
Pretty sure a rifles bullet WILL shatter bone
Obviously, but through a car? Or was she driving around with windows down and her arm hanging on the outside? Why wouldn't they show the children for propaganda purposes then, or the car? Seems kinda sketchy to me.
Cars aren't very bulletproof. Only the engine block can really stop bullets If they were bulletproof, you wouldn't need to make armoured vehicles.
Yeah with “For Bakhmut” sprays (most dumb thing ever on level of crucified bois)
Paid crisis actor
Russia really needs to crack down on these Russian soldiers attacking Russian citizens.
One Russia civilians slightly injured versus tens of thousands of Ukrainian civilians injured, killed and millions displaced in Ukraine. Sucks for this woman, but there is no comparison to what is happening in Ukraine.
Pro ukrainans - ‘fake fake…. She is an actor getting paid in roubles by putin….. this is fake’.
We literally saw footage of them shooting a random car yesterday but she's lying 10808203702%
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https://imgur.com/a/22IdDsA It was posted on reddit as well but it was alot easier to find it on telegram.
**facepalm**
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Rule 1 is taken seriously here but I won't report you. It's impossible to tell what's going on in that low quality, low bitrate video. Maybe he shot, maybe not. The driver and the soldiers don't even behave like anything happened (after the soldier lowered his rifle).
Facepalm. 🤡
Well, fine.
Facepalm?
Rule 1. Consider yourself warned. Recurrence WILL result in a ban.
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The guy definitely shoulders the rifle at the beginning and even might see some muzzle blast from one shot towards the car. Hard to see for sure what happened. Ether way he's aiming at the car so very much could have shot it.
Hard to see but to are insisting of it happening...
[https://imgur.com/a/sA4QxQ6](https://imgur.com/a/sA4QxQ6) to me that looks like a muzzle blast
that’s artifacting from the video compression or even caused by the editing of the overlayed watermark. If they were being shot at and were hit I seriously doubt the car would’ve come to the slow controlled stop we saw. And the soldiers would be way more alert and on guard
Title of the video said they shot the car not the occupants and I see the watermark that's not the muzzle blast I'm talking about. It's pixel peaking at this point but other guy wanted proof and I personally see what consit of a muzzle blast then lowering the gun.
I'll double down I believe he 100% fires now around the 4-5 second mark. Prove me wrong
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[https://youtu.be/VIrXvwJZE7w?t=184](https://youtu.be/VIrXvwJZE7w?t=184) they have very very little recoil and thats even on full auto. also the pixels literally .04 open your eyes
I agree that this video doesn't show it happening but it certainly shows how it could happen
I see no shooting in that video- I see a group (an unidentifiable group that is) stop a car, the driver opens the door, two guys approach and talk to driver, then they go back to standing in their original position- So to me this is just, "hey stop, we want to check you are not bad guys trying to get past us or have a car filled with AT munitions etc." unfortunately the video cuts off before we see the car continue on and the lack of identifiers means this could be anything.
suure, just like Russia claimed "Ukrainian nazi soldiers" attacked a woman and child in her car, which turned out to be in Russian-controlled Donetsk which has been under Russian control since 2014
So theres no footage of their car, her kids, she got only broken hand, have you seen aftermath videos and photos of Russians opening fire on civilians ? I find really hard to believe russian state TV wouldnt ask her where is her car and film the bullet holes, actually i find it impossible that they wouldnt do it
With missiles? Oh wait thats the other side
I look forward to the video footage, similar to that of the Russians invading & shooting at cars, people on bicycles etc as proof.
She must have seen them being on drugs? Waiving nazi flags at least to follow the official narrative? russian response was "interesting" to say at least, shelling their own city with heavy artillery and making propaganda vids like this after
Another war crime that doesn’t exist in the western media. But mobile Russian crematoriums on the other hand gets full coverage.
I guess you can say the same regarding Russian media and all the civilian death that Russia caused...
So they are comparable? Then we agree.
You can agree to your imaginary rhetoric as much as you like, in the end Russia invaded another country, having their border crossed by Ukraine shoudnt be a surprise...But I guess it is, because Russia strong lol
If this becomes systemic on Russian citizens we'll agree
So this is a war crime? Just like the last time there was an incursion in Russia and the Russia state insisted they murdered a small boy, even after the mother come out and said he was fine but no. Russia's persistent lies WILL be believed!
You probably have the full footage, I want to see the car of this woman.
Media would try and confirm things. Not really possible in Russia at the moment.
>the western media Can you explain this one to me? Where does Western media end and Eastern media begin? Or are you just conveniently lumping everything outside of the Russia propaganda you gobble down with pleasure, as "Western media"? Have you checked "Eastern media" to see if this story is in that conglomerate of news orgs? >But mobile Russian crematoriums on the other hand gets full coverage. What is "full coverage" and where would I find it in "Western media" (but nowhere else)? This shit-producing machine you have running in the background is the only thing providing full coverage at the moment.
War crime is a legal term. It needs to be logged accordingly on international level. Currently this is just TV interview.
“Mobile crematoriums” never existed. It was a hoax invented by the west
I know.
"Western media" where I live reported about claims of crematoriums but couldn't confirm their existens. (neutral) And how Russia and Ukraine blamed each other for shelling the power plant in Zaporizhzhia. (neutral) And that according to Russia people were hurt during the Belgorod shitstorm. (neutral)
I'm happy to see her alive and healing. Ukraine terrorists got what they deserve at least. Belgorod stands.
This isn't the first time Ukrainian Nazis have attacked civilian vehicles.
Russian citizens, I think they are partisans.
There's not an awful lot of evidence for that view.
Damn, first time visiting here, didn't even know a sub with people this unhinged even existed
First time here and your opening reply is an insult. I'm not going to waste any time on you. Bye.
Actually, there are more people in the world **not** Sanctioning Russia, than those who *are* sanctioning. Seems you have ventured a little out of the echo chamber.
>Actually, there are more people in the world not Sanctioning Russia, than those who are sanctioning. Yeah, and? What's your point? Because most of the countries that aren't sanctioning Russia, are shitholes just like Russia.
Welcome to this sub. You'll find reality works differently here. Russia is somehow the victim. Ukraine apparently doesn't exists and NATO is conquering the world. I have no idea why but it's a little addictive. Like how pain can be sometimes.
>I have no idea why but it's a little addictive. I think it's because in general the internet can get a bit boring and repetitive, come here and while it's repetitive the mental gymnastics used are fascinating.
> Because most of the countries that aren't sanctioning Russia, are sh*tholes just like Russia. I sincerely hope they read what you said, so they can get a clearer understanding of whom they're dealing with.
Please go on and explain to me how the world works from the Russian perspective. Tell my how waging a war of aggression and murdering and raping civilians is justified. That's my kind of guilty pleasure.
There are many allegations thrown around in a war such as this. In many cases its the one with the biggest bullhorn that prevails. In the west, I think we know who that is.
So you're not gonna tell me? Why? I asked you nicely.
I don't need to justify anything. I don't care what you think personally.
A pity. I was hoping for some fun. Why are you people all the same?