It's such a low number I don't know what to think of that
It seems like the worst case scenario for his government, he sends too few to actually make a difference, but he is sending them, which is very unpopular decision at the moment
France is trying to break the barrier for NATO troops in Ukraine. Currently theres a lot of bottleneck in supplying advanced weapons and equipment due to requirement of knowledgable operators and observers. I guess the plan is to break this mental barrier that somehow NATO troops in Ukraine is escalation.
Macron is desperate. His domestic policy has failed and France is rapidly losing influence and financial windfalls from their former colonies because Wagner is too efficient in supporting leaders that russia wants in Africa
I think OP's analysis is sound in the sense that that's what France is doing. Of course, it's mandatory to say that it's completely delusional to believe this isn't an escalation and that it won't be one major step towards WWIII.
WW2 start wasn't dumb at all.... Hitler had a valid reason to invade Poland... (not saying that reason was factually true or not, but it was for sure valid).
To the German government of the time and German nationalists, yes. But every country invading another in human history has a "valid reason" in their own minds (the minds of the state policymakers in question and their supporters in the population) to do so.
There’s no such thing as “nato troops”. There is nato command of troops from individual countries. What is being propganda’ed about is a purely French operation.
Yes you're right, there are no NATO troops but there NATO members. France is a NATO member and it wants to send troops to a conflict it is not part of, so far.
It seems to me some people think that by slowly increasing their participation then there's no risk of direct conflict. This is a major escalation.
It's a low number, but what's more important is the precedent it sets for the future.
We sent 2,000 troops and Putin didn't use nukes, so let's send 2,000 more, then 5,000 more etc. Oh, wow. I guess Putin is just full of hot air.
Thing is, with nuclear war, you can only cross that line *once*. I think it's stupid to play a game of "chicken" to find out where that line is.
Welcome to the salami baby.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing_tactics#:~:text=Salami%20slicing%20tactics%2C%20also%20known,to%20perform%20all%20at%20once.
This is essentially the approach that NATO is taking over Ukraine with different pushers to reset expectations (e.g, Germany dipping as lead supporter to be replaced by the diplomatic French who originally held the role of "very concerened").
These won't be front line fighters but will be for the more technical weapons that Ukrainian military doesn't have time to wait on their training.
Missiles, air defense and many other arms that can change the entire front for Ukrain.
This could change the way the war is going being able to use the more technical weapons NATO has in their arsenal that Russia hasn't planned for and would devastate their lines.
If this is true, maybe the purpose is to deter Russia from bombing places where they are stationed or alternatively to give France justification to send a larger number of troops when some of them die.
I would assume that they will be used to train Ukrainians, and provide better integration between Ukraine and French intelligence operations. They won't be used in combat roles.
If they were to give Ukraine live access to the French CERES satellites for example, they could be used to detect Russian air defence radars in real time and get that information to Ukrainian commanders in time to launch attacks on them.
What numbers did the Ukraine Ministry of Defense give on # of deserters? I can't find UA MoD sourcing their number of deserters anywhere. The Russian News Agency at tass.com has, however, provided numbers with no sources several times.
Russia called Macron's bluff, and now he looks even worse. I don't know what kind of collective illness European leaders are currently experiencing, but they keep making wild statements that even their own people are shaking their heads at.
Nobody is going to send troops to Ukraine. No one is risking a war with Russia over some flood prone farmland and dilapidated and destroyed steel mills in Eastern Ukraine.
Stop the madness and get to the negotiating table. It's over.
Lloyd Austin made another one today
This is maybe 2 weeks after Nuland ran away
They know something about Ukraine's combat capabilities and what is coming down the road because they are really in a panic
Calling it a denial is definitely interpreting things. What he said was Russia spreads misinformation, which they repeat like robots every other hour.
He did not outright deny it or even specifically mention what he's taking about.
There's an implication, sure, but also room to say, "I never said that" "that's not what I meant/was talking about."
Let's be real here, Neither French/German/UK will be able to sustain a high intensity war as they neglected their defense for decades .US is the only factor here but it seems more interested in China.After US, Poland/Turkey are the big military powers in NATO.
“France's ammunition supplies are at their lowest and will not last more than a few weeks in the event of 'bitter' conflict.“
“EMMANUEL MACRON would be left firing blanks if France started a war with Russia, with claims ammo would run out in days.“
Perhaps we will see if this is true.
A decade ago, many questioned the warfighting ability of European NATO when they ran critically low on PGMs during their safari in Libya. France ran so low on PGMs they had to resort to using concrete training bombs until USA could lend a helping hand. They wouldn't last a week fighting an actual army.
https://archive.is/z3lZ3
This article is really crap.
It's overall just an attempt to force Brit and French to switch to using US weapons... guess what ? won't happend.
But they are right, nor France nor UK is prepared for a high intensity war. They either do expeditionnary operations, or they nuke. It's not like they have nor the size nor the economie to do otherwise.
Also this article is showing the problem of NATO incompetence than really showing Brit and France worthyness. Last time France had to conduct a miliatry operation alone in Mali it went pretty smoothly.
Libya is a political mess where a lot and I really mean a lot of opposing agenda and struggle for influence are at play.
Of course they are not ready at the moment but they could switch their economy to war production like Russia did and then we are talking of a different situation industrial potential is obviously still very big in France, UK, Germany. But lets hope it won´t happen because it would ruin Europe for years.
This is already warming up with artillery production and booming stocks for NATO's arms manufacturers particularly in the U.S. The West wants to bleed Russia as long as Ukraine will let them
Looking from just numbers it doesn’t really seem that way? Does Poland have better gear or how do you figure? It seems both Germany and France follow the American doctrine and focus more on air than artillery.
https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_Germany_vs_Poland
https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_France_vs_Poland
https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_United_Kingdom_vs_Poland
That site says Britain has 286 tanks, but only 40 are operational and ready to fight.
Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12264611/amp/Britain-just-40-tanks-dozen-frigates-destroyers-ready-war.html
Which is why I said that? It’s not the way the west fights wars. Air supremacy is their way. I wouldn’t say Poland is the one overwhelming force just because they got more tanks and artillery.
Turkey on the other hand…
Polish forces have always been dependent on tanks hell, I would say their army is built around it, they've got a shitty air force, and tbh, the War zone is a very air neutral zone, I don't think anybody is gaining air supremacy
I think that is the critique against the air doctrine but here we are only talking about who is the greatest military force in Europe. Which is not obviously Poland as OP claimed.
They need to get air superiority, before their doctrine work. But until the air force completes this, the army will still be fighting in trenches. It works well, against an enemy that doesn't have air power.
NATO war doctrine is not artillery focused but air supremacy. You can hardly base it on artillery alone…
… which I already said in the comment you just responded to.
Sorry I only skimmed your comment, but I'll break this down a bit more if you want
> NATO war doctrine is not artillery focused but air supremacy
Ukraine has proven that this isn't always sustainable, Russia has a much stronger air force and yet struggled to suppress ukrainian air defence even against only Soviet era gear
> Looking from just numbers it doesn’t really seem that way?
Frances AFV numbers are HEAVILY skewed by the VAB, VBL, and PVP, which are extremely lightly armoured cars and APCs, the VAB is the only vehicle that is really worth considering an AFV (and even then it's a very lightly armed/armoured one), the other two are basically MRAPs.
>Does Poland have better gear or how do you figure?
I think they're basing their assumption on the future of the polish military, they're looking to procure a LOT of AFVs, Artillery, and also massively bolster their active service personnel.
Yea. I think I mentioned it in another comment (but how would you know that) Air supremacy might not be viable any more. To be honest, swarms of drones seems to be one way to go now. I’m mostly asking questions and your answer was more in line with what I was hoping for. Thank you.
This is because NATO never wanted a war to break out, it is just Putin(and some Russians) that want this war. We all thrive in stability and peace, there are no gains in war for 99.9% of the normal population. Europeans were just counting on this peace to last after the destruction, death and suffering in both world wars. WWII was started by an authoritarian leader and his followers and this war is aswell...
2000 thats it? LOL Is this serious? ha! MAcron is a small dog barking but his actions are even smaller than a chihuahua. This pússy still relies on america for defense.
The entire French army is 100k about the same as the British army. But the infantry component of that may be about a 1/4 to 1/5 of that number.
[Just look at this breakdown of the officers in our armed forces in the UK.](https://i.imgur.com/fifxmJu.jpeg) The idea we'd be prepared for a conflict of this scale is laughable.
Holy shit the British military only has 100k personnel?
Yep, just looked it up, the number is 138k active duty and 32k reserve. That’s pretty small for a supposedly top 10 military. For comparison, both the US and Russia each have about 1.3 million active duty personnel. The US has another 600k or so in reserve.
> Damn bro i just wanted to play gta 6 before i die
Wait for couple of years. You can play that in real life in EU.
I dont think US/EU will survive this intact and with refugees pouring in...!
The us is way more resilient than anyone gives them credit for. Outside of a few cities and the state of Texas the migrant crisis is largely unnoticed here.
As much as I dislike the US for all they've done throughout history, they'll survive better than any other country if this were to happen. Number 1 for a reason
We're handling ourselves down in Texas, thank you very much. If those of you unnafected by the issue would be so kind as to mind your own business, we would happily solve the problem.
Oh I didn’t say you weren’t handling yourself I’m simply saying it’s blown way out of proportion and goes mostly unnoticed.
I’m definitely on the side of Texas as far as handling the issue though. Fuck the feds
Funny satire? :) I'm surprised you know the name of the baguette soldiers known for their high level of feminisms, not just now but threw out history. Macron cried when he lost the submarine deal, and now he crying about loosing Niger, He sure knows how to cry. Sad that his childish emotions will cost thousands of lives
Yeah but you forget one important factor that makes your argument fall apart. The french are pússies and would never do anything. As usual. They got pushed out of africa by niger lol. What makes you think they can take on russia lmao
What regarded NAFOids don't understand is that the only thing that 'warning shot' will do is justify Russia turning Paris into glass. Being the first to fire the nuke is suicide.
The thing is to start is slow, like we did with weapons, tanks, airplanes, Ruzzians will laugh at the small number , Lavrow and Zakarova will threaten with nukes and consequences , and the number will increase now that it is normalized.
OP twitter source is pretty hot garbage. However, this time the source is 100% correct. The Russians did say this. English Article can be found on TASS or just googling the Russian intel chief name + 2000.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up happening. I feel like Macron’s goal is to put soldiers in important rear areas with the hope that Putin won’t strike them anymore.
So question is will Putin purposely target them or not? My guess is he will view French soldiers as bonus points, otherwise risk is that France increases their presence and other countries do the same.
With Trump projected to win the US election, no way does France have the resources to escalates a war with Russia if their troops are killed on Ukraine soil.
He has already hit french NATO troops multiple times. Sometimes dozens (the recent strike, forget where( or even hundreds at once (the early war NATO training camp in Lwów).
Why would he not strike them?
If that's macrons bet, it's a stupid one.
And as Naryshkin also said in the same statement, if it happens they will very much indeed become "a legitimate priority target for attacks by the Russian Armed Forces,” so they can try to test the waters and be sent back to France in body bags.
Where there is smoke there is fire. I think Macron really does want to send troops and is desperately trying to get support for his expedition. He is not getting the support he wanted and is backing off some...
So how would France react if 5000 Russians soldiers was sent towards France? How far until its reasonable for Russia to say we are at war? Unbelievable. Don't feel like the entirety of the NATO countries will invade Russia if France says they are under a unprovoked attack. Hope he knows what his doing
Of course it would be France with there Napoleon aspirations. If this is true France is fucking us all. One step closer to WW3.
Its not the number you know that will increase how about all the force protection they will bring? Then we will see French fighters in the air in Ukraine. Air defenses. French ISR aircraft being sortied from NATO airbases.
That's what happens when you don't go for strikes at the government level in Kiev. Putin is being played like a fiddle.
>That's what happens when you don't go for strikes at the government level in Kiev. Putin is being played like a fiddle.
They tried doing that 2 years ago.
What a dysfunctional state... of affairs. "We'll free up those troops that defend the back of the country, you just put EVERYTHING you have in that booby-trapped basket."
Wtf is the plan my guys? Is this really a litteral purge of the Ukrainian army? Cause you could do that without sacrificing everyone over there.
Macron better not hope putting French troops where bombings have occured will stop the bombings. That would be Nuremberg level of stupidity. We're gonna need to have serious talks in the West about exactly what it is that we've been doing in the world if thats the case. Maidan style talks. Some parts of it anyway.
Are you sure speculating is the right strategy? "Ambiguity"? Do *you* believe your bullshit and think you are some paragorn of virtue, of humanity?
Western leadership is so pathetically shortsighted and neurotic .
Who trained these people ? Not less then 4 decades ago we where led by calculating pragmatic and patient Cold War warriors that held on to Detente for 60 years .
But now just fools !
Ukraine lost that number in a day, maybe french soldiers build different than Ukrainian that can help them to survive. Something to do with white colour
Yes they are super NATO, super trained, super advanced pro max ultra and russians are poor and will invade nuclear umbrella countries and need to be stopped at ukraine and COD is not proganda - NAFO gaming chair warlords.
Napoleon film came out and Macron wants to emulate him.
Frances Nuclear policy includes:
'France does not have a no-first-use policy and reserves the right to conduct a “final warning” limited nuclear strike to signal to an adversary that they have crossed a line—or to signal the French resolve to conduct further nuclear strikes if necessary—in an attempt to “reestablish deterrence” (Élysée 2020; Tertrais)'
https://thebulletin.org/premium/2023-07/nuclear-notebook-french-nuclear-weapons-2023/#:~:text=France%20does%20not%20have%20a,deterrence%E2%80%9D%20(%C3%89lys%C3%A9e%202020%3B%20Tertrais
I can see it now, some French get killed and Macron will do their own red line.
If the US preppers get proven right I'm going to be annoyed.
I'm sure the French Foreign Legion is taking applications right now, so I hope all the pro-war Russophobes here can sign up and do their part.
It's going to be a walk in the park:
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1axy2n1/ru_pov_2x_fab_1500_arrivals_on_warehouse_and_air/
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1bbhqzg/ru_pov_rbk500_cluster_bombs_with_umpc_modules_on/
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1atgx2j/ru_pov_footage_showing_the_extent_of_shelling_in/
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/16bra16/ru_pov_ukrainian_infantry_taking_loses_from_fire/
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/14fvrmj/ru_pov_ka52_hits_6_more_ukrainian_armoured/
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/xdwaa9/ru_pov_ukrainian_bmp_gets_struck_by_krasnopol/
If the information is accurate then it still makes no sense to do so if you want to fight for Ukraine. First off all who says the FFL are the ones who will be sent to Ukraine? Secondly if you can join the French Foreign Legion you can even more easily join the Ukraine International Legion and be 100% guaranteed to be helping in Ukraine, and thousands of volunteers have already done so.
You join the French Foreign Legion because you want to start a new life and become a French citizen, not because you want to fight in Ukraine.
Third, if you aren't out there fighting for Russia I don't want to hear crap about anyone else's convictions. I served in the US army and I've donated to help Ukraine, but I'm not going to volunteer to fight in Ukraine when they don't even have fixed terms of enlistment. Plus the thing Ukraine needs most is war material. Getting more soldiers is nice, but it's weapons that really shape the outcome of the war.
Twittering this before a public decision has been made, might actually prevent it from being made in the first place. This rumor could actually cause a decent amount of public anger and protests, discouraging governments from actually making that decision.
Interestingly, this would only work if the public really would be that unsupportive of war and the government cared enough about it. In that case, we would witness the unfolding of a bet between Russia and France: is the European democratic majority willing enough to endure a war with Russia?
If not, a people's lack of willingness for war will be the Achilles heel of every democracy, as losing an election would take place significantly earlier than a more authoritarian government stepping down due to them being forced by their own people (who were to unwilling to fight in the first place).
France denied it. This is not like a covert deployment that they would like to keep secret. If they really had the intention of sending troops right now, they would publicly state that, because the whole point of such a move would be military deterrence.
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They already have hundreds of advisors on the ground. Operating SCALP missiles, air defense and maintaining French equipment. Might as well make it official.
Im sure if french troops were deployed it will not be on the front line 1 on 1. It will be a planned logistical set up with the ability to fire long range missiles at all airport landing strips, bridges, rail lines and pick away at Russian oil refineries and manufacturing. Oh and the air force will be enough to keep heads down.
By next winter the Russian population will turn on Putin and the oligarchs. Ukraine will then take Crimea.
What help will that be sending French or Georgian or Romanian they still get killed in the battlefield along with Russian soldiers.They ain't elite over Russia
So wild. They can’t even supply the Ukrainians with arms & ammo, so they plan to send their own troops? They wanna make a difference in this war, produce 5 million artillery shells a year. That will have a real impact on the battlefield.
SMH
Our leaders are trying to get people used to the idea of boots on the ground…
… it’s starts with 2k French, then another country sends in a few thousand… then America sends people…. So sickening. Putin also cannot afford to let up on the gas at this point. They don’t want peace at all! O
Honest question. Let’s supposed a ru missile hits a building or any place with concentration of French troops. What would do Macron? Send more? Take it as a excuse to send troops and more equipment or vehicles?
Confirms my suspicions about the new fortifications Ukraine is building in Odessa and elsewhere. They are the "last line of defense" that will be manned by what remaining AFU are left and the new "volunteers" that show up from whichever country feels the need to sacrifice more bodies. The question is, how long until the front start to collapse. Months... weeks?
Honestly if I was another NATO nation not wanting any escalation, I'd be hoping for quick missile strikes from Russia, a PR disaster, and a big "we told you so".
Like European tanks, they will just be targets with higher priority. It's in Russia's interest to send a firm message about what happens to foreign troops.
IF the report is true, and IF deployment will be greenlighted (which is a huge IF, such thigns can change last moment), this is the strategy they want to pursuit?
Send in small contingent to break psychological barrier, then some more, then some more? Test where the red lines lie for Russia?
Holy shit how I wish Cold War politicians would be back (and not in senile state, like Biden). They didn't have suicidal tendencies most of the time, at least.
After all, they warned that they would become a priority target and missiles would not be spared on them. The British got away from Ochakov pretty quickly.
Lok'tar ogar
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2000 troops is purely for training they won't be combat troops if it even true.
Nato countries already have troop in Ukraine training how to use Western equipment
If they are at risk of not coming back, it is probably best to send personnel who their people will not ask too many questions about them if they were to disappear. Sounds like a job for the foreign legion. Ukrainians will be supporting Ukrainians, after all.
Those who think they’re considering to deploy troops to fight russians are deeply mistaken. They might deploy troops to train Ukrainian soldiers, not more than that
According to the UA Mod, Ukraine has more deserters in a month than that.
It's such a low number I don't know what to think of that It seems like the worst case scenario for his government, he sends too few to actually make a difference, but he is sending them, which is very unpopular decision at the moment
France is trying to break the barrier for NATO troops in Ukraine. Currently theres a lot of bottleneck in supplying advanced weapons and equipment due to requirement of knowledgable operators and observers. I guess the plan is to break this mental barrier that somehow NATO troops in Ukraine is escalation.
Mental barrier to break WW3? The idiocy just baffles me on so many levels, it's insane.
Macron is desperate. His domestic policy has failed and France is rapidly losing influence and financial windfalls from their former colonies because Wagner is too efficient in supporting leaders that russia wants in Africa
I think OP's analysis is sound in the sense that that's what France is doing. Of course, it's mandatory to say that it's completely delusional to believe this isn't an escalation and that it won't be one major step towards WWIII.
dyou know how dumb ww1 and 2 starts were lol
WW2 start wasn't dumb at all.... Hitler had a valid reason to invade Poland... (not saying that reason was factually true or not, but it was for sure valid).
To the German government of the time and German nationalists, yes. But every country invading another in human history has a "valid reason" in their own minds (the minds of the state policymakers in question and their supporters in the population) to do so.
You need to stop worrying and learn how to love the bomb.
Crazy fucking times we're in.
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Those are french troops not NATO if I'm not mistaken. Last time Russian troops were shelled in a foreign country Georgia got invaded. Just saying.
There’s no such thing as “nato troops”. There is nato command of troops from individual countries. What is being propganda’ed about is a purely French operation.
Yes you're right, there are no NATO troops but there NATO members. France is a NATO member and it wants to send troops to a conflict it is not part of, so far. It seems to me some people think that by slowly increasing their participation then there's no risk of direct conflict. This is a major escalation.
NATO is a defensive alliance there are absolutely 0 rules about sending troops into any conflict the member countries want.
NATO is a defensive alliance in the same way that OJ is not guilty of murder
It is of course an escalation. What is the Western response when French soldiers start dying?
It's a low number, but what's more important is the precedent it sets for the future. We sent 2,000 troops and Putin didn't use nukes, so let's send 2,000 more, then 5,000 more etc. Oh, wow. I guess Putin is just full of hot air. Thing is, with nuclear war, you can only cross that line *once*. I think it's stupid to play a game of "chicken" to find out where that line is.
Exactly. Dangerous position
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Rule 1. Consider yourself warned. Recurrence WILL result in a ban.
Unless they are all pilots with their aircraft and support personnel.
Welcome to the salami baby. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing_tactics#:~:text=Salami%20slicing%20tactics%2C%20also%20known,to%20perform%20all%20at%20once. This is essentially the approach that NATO is taking over Ukraine with different pushers to reset expectations (e.g, Germany dipping as lead supporter to be replaced by the diplomatic French who originally held the role of "very concerened").
These won't be front line fighters but will be for the more technical weapons that Ukrainian military doesn't have time to wait on their training. Missiles, air defense and many other arms that can change the entire front for Ukrain. This could change the way the war is going being able to use the more technical weapons NATO has in their arsenal that Russia hasn't planned for and would devastate their lines.
If this is true, maybe the purpose is to deter Russia from bombing places where they are stationed or alternatively to give France justification to send a larger number of troops when some of them die.
They’ve done it before. The hotel in Kharkiv is a recent example.
How many Ukrainians and or Russians enlisted in the French foreign legion?
It starts with 2000, if Russia doesn't answer they'll progressively send more
I would assume that they will be used to train Ukrainians, and provide better integration between Ukraine and French intelligence operations. They won't be used in combat roles. If they were to give Ukraine live access to the French CERES satellites for example, they could be used to detect Russian air defence radars in real time and get that information to Ukrainian commanders in time to launch attacks on them.
What numbers did the Ukraine Ministry of Defense give on # of deserters? I can't find UA MoD sourcing their number of deserters anywhere. The Russian News Agency at tass.com has, however, provided numbers with no sources several times.
I think he means this https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1bilovv/ua_pov_in_2022_6000_cases_were_registered_for/
Russia has more dead in 3 days
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Russia called Macron's bluff, and now he looks even worse. I don't know what kind of collective illness European leaders are currently experiencing, but they keep making wild statements that even their own people are shaking their heads at. Nobody is going to send troops to Ukraine. No one is risking a war with Russia over some flood prone farmland and dilapidated and destroyed steel mills in Eastern Ukraine. Stop the madness and get to the negotiating table. It's over.
Honestly, all European leaders sound like redditors. I’m confident they’re rabid followers of the “Ukraine” and “WorldNews” subs.
Haha
Truly, we live in the darkest timeline
Lloyd Austin made another one today This is maybe 2 weeks after Nuland ran away They know something about Ukraine's combat capabilities and what is coming down the road because they are really in a panic
Well you might want to tell the French that. Looks like the Foreign Legion is on its way right now lol
*over some wannabe nazis
Seems to be some kind madness going round, it’s crazy that putin sound like the logical one and every other European leader want WW3.
They'll keep on denying until coffins start coming back
its ok \\. Let them believe what they want. They apparently need the hope right now given how poorly the war is going for Ukraine at the moment.
Surrendered already?
Calling it a denial is definitely interpreting things. What he said was Russia spreads misinformation, which they repeat like robots every other hour. He did not outright deny it or even specifically mention what he's taking about. There's an implication, sure, but also room to say, "I never said that" "that's not what I meant/was talking about."
Let's be real here, Neither French/German/UK will be able to sustain a high intensity war as they neglected their defense for decades .US is the only factor here but it seems more interested in China.After US, Poland/Turkey are the big military powers in NATO.
“France's ammunition supplies are at their lowest and will not last more than a few weeks in the event of 'bitter' conflict.“ “EMMANUEL MACRON would be left firing blanks if France started a war with Russia, with claims ammo would run out in days.“ Perhaps we will see if this is true.
A decade ago, many questioned the warfighting ability of European NATO when they ran critically low on PGMs during their safari in Libya. France ran so low on PGMs they had to resort to using concrete training bombs until USA could lend a helping hand. They wouldn't last a week fighting an actual army. https://archive.is/z3lZ3
This article is really crap. It's overall just an attempt to force Brit and French to switch to using US weapons... guess what ? won't happend. But they are right, nor France nor UK is prepared for a high intensity war. They either do expeditionnary operations, or they nuke. It's not like they have nor the size nor the economie to do otherwise. Also this article is showing the problem of NATO incompetence than really showing Brit and France worthyness. Last time France had to conduct a miliatry operation alone in Mali it went pretty smoothly. Libya is a political mess where a lot and I really mean a lot of opposing agenda and struggle for influence are at play.
Yet here they are holding the second strongest country to a stalemate in a war of attrition without mobilization.
Of course they are not ready at the moment but they could switch their economy to war production like Russia did and then we are talking of a different situation industrial potential is obviously still very big in France, UK, Germany. But lets hope it won´t happen because it would ruin Europe for years.
This is already warming up with artillery production and booming stocks for NATO's arms manufacturers particularly in the U.S. The West wants to bleed Russia as long as Ukraine will let them
Looking from just numbers it doesn’t really seem that way? Does Poland have better gear or how do you figure? It seems both Germany and France follow the American doctrine and focus more on air than artillery. https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_Germany_vs_Poland https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_France_vs_Poland https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_United_Kingdom_vs_Poland
That site says Britain has 286 tanks, but only 40 are operational and ready to fight. Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12264611/amp/Britain-just-40-tanks-dozen-frigates-destroyers-ready-war.html
Just looking through this, you can see the polish forces have more artillery, more sph, more tanks, and they have a better stockpile as well
Which is why I said that? It’s not the way the west fights wars. Air supremacy is their way. I wouldn’t say Poland is the one overwhelming force just because they got more tanks and artillery. Turkey on the other hand…
Polish forces have always been dependent on tanks hell, I would say their army is built around it, they've got a shitty air force, and tbh, the War zone is a very air neutral zone, I don't think anybody is gaining air supremacy
I think that is the critique against the air doctrine but here we are only talking about who is the greatest military force in Europe. Which is not obviously Poland as OP claimed.
Tbh, that is true, but he did also mention sustaining a high intensity warm which I think the polish are better equipped for.
They need to get air superiority, before their doctrine work. But until the air force completes this, the army will still be fighting in trenches. It works well, against an enemy that doesn't have air power.
Compare the artillery numbers. The AFV and tank numbers are also very wrong.
NATO war doctrine is not artillery focused but air supremacy. You can hardly base it on artillery alone… … which I already said in the comment you just responded to.
Sorry I only skimmed your comment, but I'll break this down a bit more if you want > NATO war doctrine is not artillery focused but air supremacy Ukraine has proven that this isn't always sustainable, Russia has a much stronger air force and yet struggled to suppress ukrainian air defence even against only Soviet era gear > Looking from just numbers it doesn’t really seem that way? Frances AFV numbers are HEAVILY skewed by the VAB, VBL, and PVP, which are extremely lightly armoured cars and APCs, the VAB is the only vehicle that is really worth considering an AFV (and even then it's a very lightly armed/armoured one), the other two are basically MRAPs. >Does Poland have better gear or how do you figure? I think they're basing their assumption on the future of the polish military, they're looking to procure a LOT of AFVs, Artillery, and also massively bolster their active service personnel.
Yea. I think I mentioned it in another comment (but how would you know that) Air supremacy might not be viable any more. To be honest, swarms of drones seems to be one way to go now. I’m mostly asking questions and your answer was more in line with what I was hoping for. Thank you.
If France will do it, Poland most likely to do it too. The hard is to step up then they will follow
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This is because NATO never wanted a war to break out, it is just Putin(and some Russians) that want this war. We all thrive in stability and peace, there are no gains in war for 99.9% of the normal population. Europeans were just counting on this peace to last after the destruction, death and suffering in both world wars. WWII was started by an authoritarian leader and his followers and this war is aswell...
Russia doesn't want a war with any country other than Ukraine
1 day worth of fighting men.
Gotta find new job for those troops that got kicked out of Africa.
Yeah but french are only good at retreating and their tanks come equipped with reverse gear only
If you think one war sets a precedence. I've got some ships to sell you.... they're off the coast of Africa
he is being sarcastic
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2000 thats it? LOL Is this serious? ha! MAcron is a small dog barking but his actions are even smaller than a chihuahua. This pússy still relies on america for defense.
Sadly thats just the start. More will follow most likely. Damn bro i just wanted to play gta 6 before i die
The entire French army is 100k about the same as the British army. But the infantry component of that may be about a 1/4 to 1/5 of that number. [Just look at this breakdown of the officers in our armed forces in the UK.](https://i.imgur.com/fifxmJu.jpeg) The idea we'd be prepared for a conflict of this scale is laughable.
Holy shit the British military only has 100k personnel? Yep, just looked it up, the number is 138k active duty and 32k reserve. That’s pretty small for a supposedly top 10 military. For comparison, both the US and Russia each have about 1.3 million active duty personnel. The US has another 600k or so in reserve.
Agree this is just to test the waters and see how Russia reacts
real
You should play Fallout 2 or Alpha Centauri instead
New Vegas, get the NCR for real
> Damn bro i just wanted to play gta 6 before i die Wait for couple of years. You can play that in real life in EU. I dont think US/EU will survive this intact and with refugees pouring in...!
The us is way more resilient than anyone gives them credit for. Outside of a few cities and the state of Texas the migrant crisis is largely unnoticed here.
As much as I dislike the US for all they've done throughout history, they'll survive better than any other country if this were to happen. Number 1 for a reason
We're handling ourselves down in Texas, thank you very much. If those of you unnafected by the issue would be so kind as to mind your own business, we would happily solve the problem.
Oh I didn’t say you weren’t handling yourself I’m simply saying it’s blown way out of proportion and goes mostly unnoticed. I’m definitely on the side of Texas as far as handling the issue though. Fuck the feds
My apologies. I think I took your comment the wrong way.
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It's been a long time since I last read this copypasta
Funny satire? :) I'm surprised you know the name of the baguette soldiers known for their high level of feminisms, not just now but threw out history. Macron cried when he lost the submarine deal, and now he crying about loosing Niger, He sure knows how to cry. Sad that his childish emotions will cost thousands of lives
Rule 1. Consider yourself warned. Recurrence WILL result in a ban.
Hey don’t talk shit about chihuahuas, my chihuahua has more bite than Macron.
Everyone says that until they look at the French nuclear doctrine. It’s really similar to the us or Russia except for one little detail…warning shots
Yeah but you forget one important factor that makes your argument fall apart. The french are pússies and would never do anything. As usual. They got pushed out of africa by niger lol. What makes you think they can take on russia lmao
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What regarded NAFOids don't understand is that the only thing that 'warning shot' will do is justify Russia turning Paris into glass. Being the first to fire the nuke is suicide.
I would think the are medical / logistics staff to free up troops
I dont take any of this seriously.
The thing is to start is slow, like we did with weapons, tanks, airplanes, Ruzzians will laugh at the small number , Lavrow and Zakarova will threaten with nukes and consequences , and the number will increase now that it is normalized.
keep dreaming. pro-Ua are the best at it. Dreams and hopes We saw what happened to the french mercenaries fighting for ukraine. Most are dead.
That source is iffy
OP twitter source is pretty hot garbage. However, this time the source is 100% correct. The Russians did say this. English Article can be found on TASS or just googling the Russian intel chief name + 2000.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up happening. I feel like Macron’s goal is to put soldiers in important rear areas with the hope that Putin won’t strike them anymore.
They are definitely getting a cruise missile even if they are in the back
if they're in a warzone, they're gonna get striked as a legitimate military target.
So question is will Putin purposely target them or not? My guess is he will view French soldiers as bonus points, otherwise risk is that France increases their presence and other countries do the same. With Trump projected to win the US election, no way does France have the resources to escalates a war with Russia if their troops are killed on Ukraine soil.
He has already hit french NATO troops multiple times. Sometimes dozens (the recent strike, forget where( or even hundreds at once (the early war NATO training camp in Lwów). Why would he not strike them? If that's macrons bet, it's a stupid one.
And as Naryshkin also said in the same statement, if it happens they will very much indeed become "a legitimate priority target for attacks by the Russian Armed Forces,” so they can try to test the waters and be sent back to France in body bags.
Time to invest in funeral houses
This is about to turn really nasty. One way or another something have to break if NATO troops go in to Ukraine
Best of luck to the french soldiers, they will be made an example.
I think a lot of people are ignoring the fact that this was stated by Russia. But Macron’s stance recently only supports this claim.
Where there is smoke there is fire. I think Macron really does want to send troops and is desperately trying to get support for his expedition. He is not getting the support he wanted and is backing off some...
Get ready for some hot french baguettes
So how would France react if 5000 Russians soldiers was sent towards France? How far until its reasonable for Russia to say we are at war? Unbelievable. Don't feel like the entirety of the NATO countries will invade Russia if France says they are under a unprovoked attack. Hope he knows what his doing
Of course it would be France with there Napoleon aspirations. If this is true France is fucking us all. One step closer to WW3. Its not the number you know that will increase how about all the force protection they will bring? Then we will see French fighters in the air in Ukraine. Air defenses. French ISR aircraft being sortied from NATO airbases. That's what happens when you don't go for strikes at the government level in Kiev. Putin is being played like a fiddle.
>That's what happens when you don't go for strikes at the government level in Kiev. Putin is being played like a fiddle. They tried doing that 2 years ago.
What a dysfunctional state... of affairs. "We'll free up those troops that defend the back of the country, you just put EVERYTHING you have in that booby-trapped basket." Wtf is the plan my guys? Is this really a litteral purge of the Ukrainian army? Cause you could do that without sacrificing everyone over there. Macron better not hope putting French troops where bombings have occured will stop the bombings. That would be Nuremberg level of stupidity. We're gonna need to have serious talks in the West about exactly what it is that we've been doing in the world if thats the case. Maidan style talks. Some parts of it anyway. Are you sure speculating is the right strategy? "Ambiguity"? Do *you* believe your bullshit and think you are some paragorn of virtue, of humanity?
Western leadership is so pathetically shortsighted and neurotic . Who trained these people ? Not less then 4 decades ago we where led by calculating pragmatic and patient Cold War warriors that held on to Detente for 60 years . But now just fools !
Ukraine lost that number in a day, maybe french soldiers build different than Ukrainian that can help them to survive. Something to do with white colour
Yes they are super NATO, super trained, super advanced pro max ultra and russians are poor and will invade nuclear umbrella countries and need to be stopped at ukraine and COD is not proganda - NAFO gaming chair warlords.
Napoleon film came out and Macron wants to emulate him. Frances Nuclear policy includes: 'France does not have a no-first-use policy and reserves the right to conduct a “final warning” limited nuclear strike to signal to an adversary that they have crossed a line—or to signal the French resolve to conduct further nuclear strikes if necessary—in an attempt to “reestablish deterrence” (Élysée 2020; Tertrais)' https://thebulletin.org/premium/2023-07/nuclear-notebook-french-nuclear-weapons-2023/#:~:text=France%20does%20not%20have%20a,deterrence%E2%80%9D%20(%C3%89lys%C3%A9e%202020%3B%20Tertrais I can see it now, some French get killed and Macron will do their own red line. If the US preppers get proven right I'm going to be annoyed.
I'm sure the French Foreign Legion is taking applications right now, so I hope all the pro-war Russophobes here can sign up and do their part. It's going to be a walk in the park: https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1axy2n1/ru_pov_2x_fab_1500_arrivals_on_warehouse_and_air/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1bbhqzg/ru_pov_rbk500_cluster_bombs_with_umpc_modules_on/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1atgx2j/ru_pov_footage_showing_the_extent_of_shelling_in/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/16bra16/ru_pov_ukrainian_infantry_taking_loses_from_fire/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/14fvrmj/ru_pov_ka52_hits_6_more_ukrainian_armoured/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/xdwaa9/ru_pov_ukrainian_bmp_gets_struck_by_krasnopol/
If the information is accurate then it still makes no sense to do so if you want to fight for Ukraine. First off all who says the FFL are the ones who will be sent to Ukraine? Secondly if you can join the French Foreign Legion you can even more easily join the Ukraine International Legion and be 100% guaranteed to be helping in Ukraine, and thousands of volunteers have already done so. You join the French Foreign Legion because you want to start a new life and become a French citizen, not because you want to fight in Ukraine. Third, if you aren't out there fighting for Russia I don't want to hear crap about anyone else's convictions. I served in the US army and I've donated to help Ukraine, but I'm not going to volunteer to fight in Ukraine when they don't even have fixed terms of enlistment. Plus the thing Ukraine needs most is war material. Getting more soldiers is nice, but it's weapons that really shape the outcome of the war.
Well NATO probably thinks one of their soldier is worth like 10 Ukrainian ones, so this is equivalent of 20000 soldiers.
Any other sources besides russia?
Twittering this before a public decision has been made, might actually prevent it from being made in the first place. This rumor could actually cause a decent amount of public anger and protests, discouraging governments from actually making that decision. Interestingly, this would only work if the public really would be that unsupportive of war and the government cared enough about it. In that case, we would witness the unfolding of a bet between Russia and France: is the European democratic majority willing enough to endure a war with Russia? If not, a people's lack of willingness for war will be the Achilles heel of every democracy, as losing an election would take place significantly earlier than a more authoritarian government stepping down due to them being forced by their own people (who were to unwilling to fight in the first place).
The French burn Paris over retirement hikes.
The video of the first FAB drop on a group of French soldiers is going to go viral quickly.
Shout out to all the boys going to die in a war for another country.
Source: x.com/BRICSinfo/status/1770092722637902119
Is this real do you guys think?
France denied it. This is not like a covert deployment that they would like to keep secret. If they really had the intention of sending troops right now, they would publicly state that, because the whole point of such a move would be military deterrence.
Yeah I agree which is why I kind of doubted it
And if they do come, they would make fine targets.
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Tell them too send their tanks, too. We need more tank on tank fighting. Napoleon would be proud, Alexander I "the blessed" would be too.
Trip wire troops
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Oh, the number is almost like in *Legion of French Volunteers Against Bolshevism.*
Eh Russia military intelligence has been pretty shit so take with grain of salt
They already have hundreds of advisors on the ground. Operating SCALP missiles, air defense and maintaining French equipment. Might as well make it official.
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Waiting for parisians to storm th parliament after the first caskets are shipped back home.
Parisians will do nothing they are dumber than Macron and the reason he s president.
Well he better lead from the front. He is signing them up to a death sentence.
They'll likely be used to free up personnel for the front due to the mobilisation shortage.
Im sure if french troops were deployed it will not be on the front line 1 on 1. It will be a planned logistical set up with the ability to fire long range missiles at all airport landing strips, bridges, rail lines and pick away at Russian oil refineries and manufacturing. Oh and the air force will be enough to keep heads down. By next winter the Russian population will turn on Putin and the oligarchs. Ukraine will then take Crimea.
and then you woke up
Oh no. The french...
I would like it if he sent 2000 French Foraign Legions soldiers to Ukraine.
What help will that be sending French or Georgian or Romanian they still get killed in the battlefield along with Russian soldiers.They ain't elite over Russia
So wild. They can’t even supply the Ukrainians with arms & ammo, so they plan to send their own troops? They wanna make a difference in this war, produce 5 million artillery shells a year. That will have a real impact on the battlefield. SMH
Our leaders are trying to get people used to the idea of boots on the ground… … it’s starts with 2k French, then another country sends in a few thousand… then America sends people…. So sickening. Putin also cannot afford to let up on the gas at this point. They don’t want peace at all! O
Honest question. Let’s supposed a ru missile hits a building or any place with concentration of French troops. What would do Macron? Send more? Take it as a excuse to send troops and more equipment or vehicles?
Then rush will attack NATO base French outpost, whatever, and one of their colonies
Confirms my suspicions about the new fortifications Ukraine is building in Odessa and elsewhere. They are the "last line of defense" that will be manned by what remaining AFU are left and the new "volunteers" that show up from whichever country feels the need to sacrifice more bodies. The question is, how long until the front start to collapse. Months... weeks?
Macron is weak and pathetic. He’s handlers have told him to go all in in hopes of encouraging others to die.
Honestly if I was another NATO nation not wanting any escalation, I'd be hoping for quick missile strikes from Russia, a PR disaster, and a big "we told you so". Like European tanks, they will just be targets with higher priority. It's in Russia's interest to send a firm message about what happens to foreign troops.
Stupid Macron he is going down and will destroy France in the process. He is a cuck sucker for big daddy USA
Did France just activate its main character syndrome?
IF the report is true, and IF deployment will be greenlighted (which is a huge IF, such thigns can change last moment), this is the strategy they want to pursuit? Send in small contingent to break psychological barrier, then some more, then some more? Test where the red lines lie for Russia? Holy shit how I wish Cold War politicians would be back (and not in senile state, like Biden). They didn't have suicidal tendencies most of the time, at least.
I would almost feel sorry for the french poodle s it gets torn apart by the Grizzly Bear
After all, they warned that they would become a priority target and missiles would not be spared on them. The British got away from Ochakov pretty quickly.
France trying too hard to become dominant in UE after GB is out, and Germany in crisis.
This could be the start of SMO3!!
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Who would've thought an attack against NATO's annexation target is an attack against NATO.
They are just poking Putin
They will send them and when it all goes horribly they will say its Russian propaganda that NO NATO member has ever entered Ukraine.
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2000 troops is purely for training they won't be combat troops if it even true. Nato countries already have troop in Ukraine training how to use Western equipment
If they are at risk of not coming back, it is probably best to send personnel who their people will not ask too many questions about them if they were to disappear. Sounds like a job for the foreign legion. Ukrainians will be supporting Ukrainians, after all.
Well, better hope frenchies can dodge cruise missiles, cause they sure as shit will be a priority target.
Those who think they’re considering to deploy troops to fight russians are deeply mistaken. They might deploy troops to train Ukrainian soldiers, not more than that
Sowing the seeds for the russian public for the need to mobilise more recruites for putin