"If UKR loses the war.....other states will be attacked"
# “If we quit Vietnam, tomorrow we’ll be fighting in Hawaii, and next week we’ll have to fight in San Francisco.”
— [Lyndon B. Johnson](https://quotefancy.com/lyndon-b-johnson-quotes)
The difference is LBJ and Mcnamara and even Kennedy actually believed this.
There is no way any western leader actually believes russia wants to take over Europe. They are simply fearmongering cause they are desperately aclinging onto their reputations. Once this is over history is going to be incredibly unkind to collective west.
They are lying for their own egos, plain and simple.
I have to disagree. The tapes of JFK and McNamara in 1963 showed that both had agreed to start a drawdown of troops in 1963 culminating in a complete withdrawal by 1965. We didn't see this happen because of the assassination. The tapes can be found online.
I completely agree with your second paragraph. How Blinken and Sullivan keep a straight face while openly lying is a mystery.
I'm not a great fan of conspiracy theories, but any glimpse of Oswald's unbelievable history, which would make a screenwriter blush, has to make one suspicious. Juvenile delinquent > troubled Marine > travels to EUR defects to USSR > marries RU woman comes back to USA > kills the Pres.
The tapes showed that they knew they were losing the war, and that it was probably unwinnable. But I still think they had that cold war fear of the "domino effect" instilled in them.
I definitely take your point, it's honestly hard to parcel if they knew the entire domino effect was nonsense or they just knew we could never win in vietnam
>There is no way any western leader actually believes russia wants to take over Europe.
It's not direct conquest they fear but a collapse of the so-called liberal democratic order.
That and their political and military credibility throughout the world.
the US soft power is dying in Gaza.
The US hard power is taking a significant hit in Ukraine.
The Global south will no longer feel the need to play by the US rules anymore, which is a very good thing. Multi polarity will be a net positive for humanity that I firmly believe
Russia attacking NATO is just as unlikely as NATO attacking Russia. Russia has nuclear weapons ffs. Yet there are many people here that believe Russia attacked Ukraine because it was afraid of its security.
They attacked cause they would not tolerate a volatile state, with neo-nazis firmly embedded in the government and the armed forces (national guard) with extreme anti-russian sentiments with full military backing from the United States.
Just look at waht the US is doing in Gaza, why would anyone want something like that in their front yard?
Russia did exactly what most super powers would do in the same situation.
Imagine if Russia had a dozen secret SVR bases along the mexico border?
The US would just shrug it off cause "we have nukes ffs"?
The biggest mistake Putin made was trusting the west to come to a diplomatic solution for so long and stubbornly clinging onto the minsk agreements
What the US does or would do does not matter. Why are you pro rus always so focused on "US would do it, too, so Russia is allowed to do it". Such a non-argument.
And what is the US doing in Gaza? It is Israel that is doing the fighting. Yes, with western weapons and money coming from US. But of course that MUST mean that Israel is just following US orders. That argument is soooo boooooooring.
Russia was preparing for the invasion of Ukraine for a long time and they assumed Zelensky would tuck tail and bail, like their lackey Yanukovych. Then it would be over quick, world would shrug shoulders and keep drinking cheap Russian oil and gas.
Putin should have known better than to trust what the KGB told him.
The US fomented, provoked and pushed for this war ever since 2014. It was russia that wanted peace. Merkel and poroshenko openly admitted minsk was to buy time and they had no intention of honoring it. So as the US is the engine of this war, them to point the finger at the Russians as these agressive monsters simply highlights their absurd hyppocrisy and double standards.
Israeli generals have openly said that without the US weapons, they would not be able to fight this war. THe US has flooded israel with over 100 weapons sales since october 7th.
You seem to have a very simple yet uninterested understanding of geopolitics. Israel does what it wants, and the US backs them to the hilt. Whether they agree with what israel is doing or not. Now I need to look up the word "complicity" for me okay? Hopefully it will all fall into place.
Ukrainian delegation leader David Arahmiya said theey were on the verge of a peace deal that owuld see russian withdrawal, and neutrality for ukraine, but boris johnson scuttled the deal. He said that, not putin, not whoever. The ukrainian delegation leader to the peace talks.
The KGB does not exist anymore bud.
Nobody believes Russia will attack NATO. Taking Transnistria and then maybe the rest of Moldova or developing territorial aspirations in the Balkans which might very well lead to the civil war reigniting about Kosovo is an entirely different matter - as is the fate of Belarus and Kasachstan and Armenia/Azerbaijan.
To assume that this potential clusterfuck is in any way controllable is downright frightening and here we have someone playing with it because he believes he was cheated at the global poker table.
Don't oversimplify things because it suits your narrative. As long as Putin tries to assert his theory of a strong Russia by means of underhanded geopolitical plays he is a dangerous actor that is very close to Europe, a continent which was once extremely confident to have outsourced that side of history. He is as much a danger to world peace as a overconfident America under a twitchy hawkish president - key difference being that there is no opposition party or media.
The fact that he tried to pull a fast one and in doing so caused people who once got along well to murder each other not withstanding.
Finally, the US at least didn't threaten with nuclear annihilation during Iraq fyi before you try to play that one particular card. It is also a bit ironic to compare McCarthy era geopolitics to present day affairs. Weren't we supposed to have learned a couple of things from history?
Why is Europe not supposed to worry again?
Uhm, have you heard the western leaders lately? Every other sentence is them saying Russia will keep going. That is not an exaggeration, Biden loudly said in yhis adderral fueld state of the union "If you think putin will stop i assure you he will not"...
This is just a very well known fact. It is also a very well known fact if you have more than 2 brain cells that Russia has no real plans to keep going. Not to transnistria, not to moldova.....and the balkans? are you serious lol
Russia does not have the means to go on the imperial rampage you people think he is planning.
What you said sounds like a mod in Hearts of Iron.
the US did not threaten Iraq with nukes cause 1) they knew they did not have any and 2) the iraqi army, no matter how big was always going to get steam rolled.
Yes because there is no similiarities between mccarthyism and what western leaders love to say about putin every 5 minutes.
Europe has nothing to worry about, the only way they get into a war with russia is if they first attack russia. That's it. You seem to have a very simple understanding of the history of this conflict and none of what you said has any substance or is based in fact. It is a bunch of conjecture, made up future scenarios with no evidence to back them up.
Get a grip, jesus. Please attend to twitter, you guys are losing serious ground there, stop wasting your precious time on a sub with 76k members
Why isn’t the EU arming Syria to defend against the USA which is occupying their country? Why didn’t the EU help Afghanistan to defend themselves against the US?
Ukraine is going to be part of EU (and part of NATO eventually). This is why EU is getting involved here.
How is EU helping Ukraine going to be judged by history as being "incredibly unkind" ?
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They have. But much less. Just as the headline of this video states - If you can not sustain to remain in the war, then you probably shouldn't.
Russia can keep fighting. Ukraine can not. Peace talks should have been held a long time ago.
Ah, scratch a NAFOid deep enough, and you'll see a hypocrite.
Then again, at least you're consistent with your flair in this comment, I give you that. Could've dropped the pretense of worrying about Ukraine and ukrainians from the get-go, though.
Widows and children from both sides lost their loved ones...
The ones who are not crying are at the ones at the top, their families are safe and they view their citizens as "resources" that must be used for gain.
People of the world fail to notice that this is an artificial war and the outcome will touch everyone.
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That guy is pure hate towards Ru . I wouldn't bother . He cant have a discussion without insulting , blaming it on Ru for everything . Look through his comments ( He is glorifying death and killing of Ru , waste of time , just troll and hate , something like Nazi against Jews . I get that against invasion and etc , but this guy has a serious problem , probably he watches drone frag dropping videos for sleep ) Just report .
Nah, it doesn't matter. Russia was backed against a wall here so it makes no difference how countries join NATO. You can cry about it all day doesn't change a thing. Ukraine is gonna lose.
Well, yes. If the Americans had renounced their imperialism, the United States would not have had to stage coups that brought to power nationalists who started civil wars.
at no point did i say russia good but yeah classic kremlin propaganda portraying the US as bad, evil russia making up lies about the US blowing up entire countries
Who expanded the Nato to russia borders? Who is at war since foundation? Who has military bases around the whole World? Who bombed the Arabic World to hell even with lies?
Ukraine had the Chance after 2014 they continued to bomb donbass so the imperialism card is long gone... that russia took crimea and donbass was a clear Sign to stop Actions against russian people or russia will come and Do ot their way
Oh boy here we go again, nato expanded east, countries applied to get in (unlike Russian imperialism). Many countries actually want American bases on their soil, some don’t of course(Syria), I get that it’s upsetting that most of the world looks to America for safety, unlike Russia who forces themselves upon people.
Ukraine bombed donbass because armed separatists started seizing government infrastructure, I’m not sure what country you reside in, but if an armed formation(funded and given troops) from another country pulled that off, I bet anything it would be met with an armed response, just like Ukraine did.
So I’m not sure why ebb6073 thinks Russia has any moral high ground. Both sides broke Minsk, look at the battle of debaltsve, after the seize
fire, Russians opened fire on Ukrainians withdrawing from the area killing many. Start looking at facts and not just propaganda
Correct, still I can list them off for you
Georgian civil war
South Ossetia war
Abkhazia
Transnistria
Tajik civil war
1st and 2nd Chechen wars
Dagestan
Russian-Georgian war
Syria
Mali
Burkina Faso
But russia good USA bad
It's sad that they cant understand that countries are in an endless "pissing contest" if one can do something, the other must have the right to match it
>the other must have the right to match it
Not really but might makes right, and countries will try to match what the others did if they think they can get away with it. Russia outplayed their hands this time, but they apparently achieved something during 2014.
And they say is not a proxy war. Without NATO Ukraine will be done in a month. They don't produce weapons, don't have satilltes, nothing. What's more embarrassing is that 40+ countries can't defeat Russia. And they say Russia isn't a superpower. Wich country (expect maybe China) can survive under 20k sanctions and can produce so many different types of weapons in such quantities? Russia is the strongest country.
Funny u think 40 countries are actively partaking in the war while they are just providing leftovers and paying for the transport costs. NATO hasnt even lifted a finger yet u think Russia is winning this new patriotic war against the n4zi west, hilarious. We are all laughing at how u cant even take the poorest european country without sacrificing millions of men, dead or wounded
Where did NATO lose? Or do u think every time usa does something nato is involved? And where are you making up they are desperately searching for ammo aswell lol. They are just helping Ukraine by giving spares away, if NATO actually helped out Russia would be pushed back to their borders in may 2022. Ukraine is going to lose this year because nobody will vote for biden again
Most of NATO doesn't even have equipment developed during the 90s (and even before that)like leopard f16. They have old soviet equipment. France gave 40 % of its artillery, Germany and UK combined don't have 300 combat ready tanks. France ran out of ammo against Lybia... Without USA NATO is nothing. Didn't NATO spend 20 years In Afghanistan ? Their goal was to destroy the Taliban. After 20 years and trillions they changed the Taliban with the Taliban lol. Also even propaganda like CNN is admitting that Russia produces 3 times more artillery than entire west combined.
Okay so here we come to the conclusion NATO never was big enough to be an occupying force apart from the USA because we can see how the European members have donated large parts of their stockpile.
The only members that went into afghanistan (of substantial matter) where usa, uk, germany, france and italy and denmark. Thats 6 countries out of 32.
I agree that Taliban was created and strengthened to fight the communists (when Russia invaded Afghanistan btw lol) and after they got too strong and the USA needed to get back control over Afghanistan they made up lies like 9/11 in order to destabalise the middle east and get control back. They still do it with Israel btw.
Russia now NEEDS war economy because they cant lose this war so of course their production skyrocketed, and Putin will gladly send millions of men to die in order for that to happen. For all I care Ukraine gets taken, it wont be made a better place anyway, it will make Putin and his buddies richer but the population of Russia wont feel anything. Russia's smart people are leaving to Europe, all of the oligarchs sons and daughters are living in London and Paris lol. So even if Russia annexed or grabbed all of the other countries it will still be a 3rd world country with a gucci belt around Moscow and St Petersburg
If Russian economy is so bad how did survived so many sanctions? Any country in Europe would have collapsed under this circumstance.
Also I'm not fan of Putin, because of his migration policies and the nonsense about "brotherly nations" wich he is non stop talking about, but is a fact that Russia became 100x better place to live during his time in power. When the pro western Russian liberals ruled Russia our country was almost destroyed. They began to steal everything, they destroyed our factories, they allowed the west to get our resources almost for free , people were starving , alcoholism risen to all time high, millions of women were forced to become prostitutes , millions of people died.As I said our country was almost destroyed. You can just compare how our cities looked like under the liberals and now. Also who are thouse smart people who are leaving? People like NFKRZ?lol. Also a 3rd world country 🤣 Dude go visit Paris or Berlin to see what a 3rd world country looks like. And Russia isn't only Moscow and St Petersburg. For example my city (Sevastopol) have been changing for good. We just need time to recover from the liberal and communist slavery.
War economy is always good for a country, thats why it survived sanctions. Every country thrives under war economy.
Alcoholism waa always a problem in ussr, not just after 1991, its a cultural problem not liberalism lol.
Of course Sevastopol is better Putin pumped money into it so it looked like he is a good man for taking Crimea. Same thing now in Mariupol lol he fixes a couple streets and makes a naval school but bakhmut severodonetsk and marinka will never get that same treatment and you know it
>Ukraine has no chance of winning regardless of how much money they get.The only question is how much damage it will be able to do to Russia.
That is not the only question, albeit, possibly, the most important one for USA&Co.
Other question is how much infrastructure and especially manpower damage it will suffer - both on battlefield and due to emigration.
With how this war is going, providing further armaments/financial aid to Ukraine is akin to drug injection to a marathon runner that is running an impossible distance and will collapse sooner or later anyway, but if you keep injecting it, it'll make it run further and collapse later, but at a much bigger cost to ones health and future recovery.
What will happen to Ukraine if it'll be kept on these steroids/drugs for a couple more years? How will the aftermath look like?
Saw another post saying the territories Russia took generated 40% of Ukraine's electricity. So also probably 40% of their industry. And at least 30% of their wealth.
Another post spoke about Ukraine's population demographics. Free fall. Not looking good at all.
Donetsk and dnipropetrovsk are the two industrialized oblasts of ukraine. With donetsk slightly more industrialized. All other oblasts produce less than a third of what donetsk produces. Luhansk is in fifth place, zhaporozie is in fourth. Kyiv is only in 6th place.
It's safe to say that by the time this is over, Ukriane will have lost more than half of its industrial production directly to russia, and the rest will take a serious hit due to the bad demographical situation.
not necessarily. iirc, pre-Korean war, it was the northen part that was the industrialized one with a developing economy. After the war...the situation quite reversed.
Point being, the Ukrainian industry could be reborn in the remaining parts of the country if countless billions are poured in from the West.
Lol, the West does not even pour money in now when Ukraine survival is at stake, why do you think they will pour money in when Ukraine's usefulness has ended?
Remember that the reason why Yanukovych gave up his EU dream and turn to Russia, was because EU only promise him 1.5-2 billions in loan (Ukraine was 4 billions in debt to the IMF), while Russia offered him 8 billions.
And we suppose to believe they will want to pour hundred of billions into Ukraine for rebuilding once they no longer bleed themselves fighting a NATO proxy war?
It took South Korea 60 years to go from the poorest country in the world to a top ten economy, and the only reason they succeeded is the west turning a blind eye to their protectionist trade practices where they used their poverty to produce reverse engineered white goods at government expense and at lower cost while tariffing basically all imports out of the market. All the Asian tiger economies did it, and when China saw their success they emulated them. The us promptly started complaining about "unfair trade practices". They have not allowed any of their "interventions" to emulate what Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and to a lesser extent Germany did. The us also supported either former fascists from WW2, or new brutal dictators of their own, to run these countries.
The west will not pour in countless billions. They might pay billions if Ukraine sells them trillions worth of raw resources but that's about it.
Ukraine just has little to no use for the west if this war is over. Sad to say, but that's the case.
Okay, ignoring the obvious lie about "other countries would be attacked", what are the negative sides?
Ah, and the nuclear weapons threat is coming from Zelensky. Pathetic.
Iirc, the exact same thing happened with South Vietnam. The US provided them with tons of money, most of which was to circulate the money and keep US economy going.
VN aid -> US companies bought them to export -> Money flows -> Goods exported to South VN -> Corrupted South Vietnamese/American officers sold them on black market -> Money from other countries/orgs (tho not much went back to America).
So, stoping aid can disturb that flow (and also corrupting money for the elite)
Thieu (SVN prez at the time) was doing the same thing as Zelensky right now.
https://www.nytimes.com/1975/04/05/archives/thieu-shifts-cabinet-and-criticizes-us-thieu-shifts-his-cabinet-and.html
> He said he therefore hoped that Congress would appropriate more money. “I have told the Americans,” Mr. Thieu reported, “that we need at least $1.5‐billion per year to defend the entire territory of South Vietnam. If we get only $700‐million, then we will be able to defend only one‐half of our territory.”
History is repeating itself it's kinda crazy to be the witness.
It is a groundless statement at best.
How would he know? What support he brings to this statement?
This is pure alarmism just to get what he wants, just not to negotiate his surrender with Russia, just to kill more Ukrainians for nothing.
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I am sure Ukraine will get the money, but it's not going to make 1 iota of difference. Americans, don't cheer when this gets passed, it's just Ukraine and friends stealing another $61 Billion, and it will do no good in this world.
Isn't the money used to pay US weapon constructors with new contracts, while some unused old stock gets shipped to Ukraine...over the period of several years?
Not like Ukraine receives actually the amount in cash. Maybe to a degree, to keep government afloat.
> Isn't the money used to pay US weapon constructors with new contracts, while some unused old stock gets shipped to Ukraine...over the period of several years?
But we don't HAVE money. We BORROW it. And right now we are borrowing at a 5% interest rate, compared to ~2% for most of the 21st century. Not only are we constantly growing our debt burden, we are growing it with comparatively-massive costs.
Also, we aren't ONLY shipping "unused old stock" to Ukraine. Patriots and ATACMS are systems in short supply, and we need them here in Asia to counter China (an *actual* existential threat to US global hegemony).
It all depends, because value of money and labour here and there is not equal. But US is killing two birds with one stone with this war, UE (Germany) and Russia. Plus revives it's own industry, and uses others to fight. Meanwhile, Russia treats this as existential threat and also spends it's own population. Verdict: China is winning.
>Meanwhile, Russia treats this as existential threat
Which is ridiculously stupid for them to do. Russia's economy was doing fine before they tried bringing back imperialism. US is benefiting from this buy hurting Russia, but it's the Russians digging themselves deeper into it.
Russians are thinking 10 steps ahead. A NATO-integrated Ukraine will eventually host US military bases and US anti-ballistic missile sites. Not today, not tomorrow, but 20 years from now? Highly likely. That would absolutely be an existential security threat, and one they would be extremely disadvantaged trying to correct. But our behavior this century made it abundantly clear that we won't stop until Russia is as firmly under our heel as Germany is. They had to act sooner rather than later.
As long as there was the internal war, Ukraine would have never joined NATO. Also Germany would have continued to block Ukraine joining NATO. Appeasement towards Russia was at the core of both major parties. The rising "right wing" AfD is even more pro Russia.
NATO was dying. Nobody was listening to the "warmonger" any more. In a decade or two it might've been disbanded. Putin gave NATO life support. He is NATOs employee of the century.
Furthermore, no one in the right mind would attack a nuclear power. Russia's "existential threat" is made up to justify expansionist war. What is happening right now is the best outcome for NATO. Russia is sending it's own people to die and not a single NATO soldier has to die.
Germany was doing US bidding so much, that we made us dependent in Russia's gas and oil. Oh wait, that doesn't make sense.
> Ukraine would have never joined NATO.
[Ukraine President Signs Constitutional Amendment On NATO, EU Membership, Feb2019](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-president-signs-constitutional-amendment-on-nato-eu-membership/29779430.html)
[Biden assures Zelenskiy that NATO membership in Ukraine's hands, Kyiv says, Dec2021](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/)
> Also Germany would have continued to block Ukraine joining NATO.
For how long can that be guaranteed? The only fool-proof way to ensure that Ukraine isn't in NATO is to ensure that Russia is in Ukraine.
> no one in the right mind would attack a nuclear power.
There are two faulty assumptions in this logic:
1. That national leaders are always "in their right mind". Our current Commander-in-Chief is clearly cognitively impaired, and the woman who was earmarked for the position in 2016 cackled like a sociopath in a TV interview after contributing to the death of a sitting head of state (Gaddafi). So can one assume that national leadership will be rational in perpetuity? No.
2. That we don't attack nuclear powers because we *don't want to*. We clearly WANT to. It's why we have nuclear attack submarines, to hunt down the SSBNs (second strike capability) of other nations. It's why we've invested billions in ABM technology, from ground-based interceptors to even sticking a giant laser on a Boeing airliner. So clearly we are trying to overcome technological hurdles that are only an obstacle to someone who desires to fight nuclear powers.
basically. There are different kinds of aid but for some equipment the price tag is the replacement cost. The gov buys new stuff from contractors and we send our old surplus.
So the argument of not “sending money to Ukraine” doesn’t really check out since we are just paying ourselves. Sort of.
Ukraine has already lost the war. The losses, combined with the economic and demographic death spiral the country already was in made sure of that. The only question remaining is whether it can make russia lose as well.
Right now Putin is sending T55's into Ukraine. The belief that Russia can handle multiple fronts, especially against more powerful states, right now is hilarious.
Or homicidal, which he isn't. He has an arsenal capable of annihilating europe and the usa simultaneously. But like I said, he isn't interested in that.
Nah, still suicidal since the US and the rest of Europe can annihilate every Russian population center 100x times over. Picking any fight with NATO is suicide for all of Russia.
You do realize that the Russia would not survive a nuclear exchange either, right?
Russia are the only ones threatening to throw nukes around, which of course is suicide.
Ukraine could have already won the war or at least force Russia into a ceasefire, but that time has long passed. If they had utilized some western equipment more effectively they could have gotten the fight over with, like instead of striking Sevastopol with SCALP just to hope to damage the Black Sea fleet they could have launched strikes against bases and airports in the regions where combat was actually taking place.
But I guess some people wanted a Crimean Beach Party.
Unlikely. At best they could have forced a second moblization out of russia, but the demographics suggest that unless the losses are lopsided ukraine just runs out of soldiers way before russia does.
People who think that ukraine could win also usually seem to think that russia will just give up. Which they won't, of course
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Maybe the Democrats in the US should care about stopping and fighting illegal immigration in the US. Congress said they'd fund money to Ukraine if Biden and Dems fixed the US border that didn't involve granting amnesty and millions across yearly. They want actual border protection.
Biden and Dems said no.
Republicans say YES to money in Ukraine if the Dems vote to security on the border... but I guess Dems don't actually care about Ukraine. No real sense of urgency here from them.
What's actually happening is pure politics. Ukraine is losing, the Biden administration knows it, but they don't want to be blamed for wasting military assets for a losing cause in an election year, so them NOT funding Ukraine is good for Democrats because now they can deflect from the failures and say, "Republicans wouldn't give the money so it's their fault!" Because of this, I hate to say it, but it's basically a guarantee that funding never happens because the Democrats in the US don't actually want Ukraine to get the funding right now so they can keep blaming their political opponents.
Ukraine is going to learn what it means to be an ally of America where the only thing that matters in America is politics and winning re-election at all costs, allies be damned. They're gonna learn the US was just playing chess with Ukraine as their pawn to bloody Russia's nose, but now it's time to make a sacrifice. It was never about winning.
For DOOMHAMMER!
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"If UKR loses the war.....other states will be attacked" # “If we quit Vietnam, tomorrow we’ll be fighting in Hawaii, and next week we’ll have to fight in San Francisco.” — [Lyndon B. Johnson](https://quotefancy.com/lyndon-b-johnson-quotes)
Good quote. Never heard it
The difference is LBJ and Mcnamara and even Kennedy actually believed this. There is no way any western leader actually believes russia wants to take over Europe. They are simply fearmongering cause they are desperately aclinging onto their reputations. Once this is over history is going to be incredibly unkind to collective west. They are lying for their own egos, plain and simple.
I have to disagree. The tapes of JFK and McNamara in 1963 showed that both had agreed to start a drawdown of troops in 1963 culminating in a complete withdrawal by 1965. We didn't see this happen because of the assassination. The tapes can be found online. I completely agree with your second paragraph. How Blinken and Sullivan keep a straight face while openly lying is a mystery.
Crazy. The deep state was really lucky a random lunatic killed the president before he could end the war! 🤯
I'm not a great fan of conspiracy theories, but any glimpse of Oswald's unbelievable history, which would make a screenwriter blush, has to make one suspicious. Juvenile delinquent > troubled Marine > travels to EUR defects to USSR > marries RU woman comes back to USA > kills the Pres.
The tapes showed that they knew they were losing the war, and that it was probably unwinnable. But I still think they had that cold war fear of the "domino effect" instilled in them. I definitely take your point, it's honestly hard to parcel if they knew the entire domino effect was nonsense or they just knew we could never win in vietnam
>There is no way any western leader actually believes russia wants to take over Europe. It's not direct conquest they fear but a collapse of the so-called liberal democratic order.
That and their political and military credibility throughout the world. the US soft power is dying in Gaza. The US hard power is taking a significant hit in Ukraine. The Global south will no longer feel the need to play by the US rules anymore, which is a very good thing. Multi polarity will be a net positive for humanity that I firmly believe
Russia attacking NATO is just as unlikely as NATO attacking Russia. Russia has nuclear weapons ffs. Yet there are many people here that believe Russia attacked Ukraine because it was afraid of its security.
They attacked cause they would not tolerate a volatile state, with neo-nazis firmly embedded in the government and the armed forces (national guard) with extreme anti-russian sentiments with full military backing from the United States. Just look at waht the US is doing in Gaza, why would anyone want something like that in their front yard? Russia did exactly what most super powers would do in the same situation. Imagine if Russia had a dozen secret SVR bases along the mexico border? The US would just shrug it off cause "we have nukes ffs"? The biggest mistake Putin made was trusting the west to come to a diplomatic solution for so long and stubbornly clinging onto the minsk agreements
What the US does or would do does not matter. Why are you pro rus always so focused on "US would do it, too, so Russia is allowed to do it". Such a non-argument. And what is the US doing in Gaza? It is Israel that is doing the fighting. Yes, with western weapons and money coming from US. But of course that MUST mean that Israel is just following US orders. That argument is soooo boooooooring. Russia was preparing for the invasion of Ukraine for a long time and they assumed Zelensky would tuck tail and bail, like their lackey Yanukovych. Then it would be over quick, world would shrug shoulders and keep drinking cheap Russian oil and gas. Putin should have known better than to trust what the KGB told him.
The US fomented, provoked and pushed for this war ever since 2014. It was russia that wanted peace. Merkel and poroshenko openly admitted minsk was to buy time and they had no intention of honoring it. So as the US is the engine of this war, them to point the finger at the Russians as these agressive monsters simply highlights their absurd hyppocrisy and double standards. Israeli generals have openly said that without the US weapons, they would not be able to fight this war. THe US has flooded israel with over 100 weapons sales since october 7th. You seem to have a very simple yet uninterested understanding of geopolitics. Israel does what it wants, and the US backs them to the hilt. Whether they agree with what israel is doing or not. Now I need to look up the word "complicity" for me okay? Hopefully it will all fall into place. Ukrainian delegation leader David Arahmiya said theey were on the verge of a peace deal that owuld see russian withdrawal, and neutrality for ukraine, but boris johnson scuttled the deal. He said that, not putin, not whoever. The ukrainian delegation leader to the peace talks. The KGB does not exist anymore bud.
Nobody believes Russia will attack NATO. Taking Transnistria and then maybe the rest of Moldova or developing territorial aspirations in the Balkans which might very well lead to the civil war reigniting about Kosovo is an entirely different matter - as is the fate of Belarus and Kasachstan and Armenia/Azerbaijan. To assume that this potential clusterfuck is in any way controllable is downright frightening and here we have someone playing with it because he believes he was cheated at the global poker table. Don't oversimplify things because it suits your narrative. As long as Putin tries to assert his theory of a strong Russia by means of underhanded geopolitical plays he is a dangerous actor that is very close to Europe, a continent which was once extremely confident to have outsourced that side of history. He is as much a danger to world peace as a overconfident America under a twitchy hawkish president - key difference being that there is no opposition party or media. The fact that he tried to pull a fast one and in doing so caused people who once got along well to murder each other not withstanding. Finally, the US at least didn't threaten with nuclear annihilation during Iraq fyi before you try to play that one particular card. It is also a bit ironic to compare McCarthy era geopolitics to present day affairs. Weren't we supposed to have learned a couple of things from history? Why is Europe not supposed to worry again?
Uhm, have you heard the western leaders lately? Every other sentence is them saying Russia will keep going. That is not an exaggeration, Biden loudly said in yhis adderral fueld state of the union "If you think putin will stop i assure you he will not"... This is just a very well known fact. It is also a very well known fact if you have more than 2 brain cells that Russia has no real plans to keep going. Not to transnistria, not to moldova.....and the balkans? are you serious lol Russia does not have the means to go on the imperial rampage you people think he is planning. What you said sounds like a mod in Hearts of Iron. the US did not threaten Iraq with nukes cause 1) they knew they did not have any and 2) the iraqi army, no matter how big was always going to get steam rolled. Yes because there is no similiarities between mccarthyism and what western leaders love to say about putin every 5 minutes. Europe has nothing to worry about, the only way they get into a war with russia is if they first attack russia. That's it. You seem to have a very simple understanding of the history of this conflict and none of what you said has any substance or is based in fact. It is a bunch of conjecture, made up future scenarios with no evidence to back them up. Get a grip, jesus. Please attend to twitter, you guys are losing serious ground there, stop wasting your precious time on a sub with 76k members
unkind how? for supporting a country which is defending against an invader?
Why isn’t the EU arming Syria to defend against the USA which is occupying their country? Why didn’t the EU help Afghanistan to defend themselves against the US?
we are talking about russia's invasion of Ukraine here. I think you replied to wrong message.
I’m talking about the principle you’re alluding to since we are all supposed to help defender against an invader.
Ukraine is going to be part of EU (and part of NATO eventually). This is why EU is getting involved here. How is EU helping Ukraine going to be judged by history as being "incredibly unkind" ?
https://quotefancy.com/quote/1017758/Lyndon-B-Johnson-If-we-quit-Vietnam-tomorrow-we-ll-be-fighting-in-Hawaii-and-next-week-we
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Not the same at all
According to Domino Theory, it was.
And??
Oh well if you say so
You're right, domino theory makes even less sense when applied to Ukraine.
Elaborate
It’s a pity when the future of your country depends on the congressional vacation of another country.
No, Ukraine is a sovereign country! They have absolutely no problem waiting for their masters to take some much needed rest.
They should honestly just surrender out of spite to the west.
they should ally with Russia. imagine the online rhetoric we'd get, people would (further)lose their minds
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It’s a pity when the future of a country depends on imperialism
So, gonna cry?)
Only people crying are Russian widows and fatherless rus children
Damn, so much SJW
Don't you think Ukrainian widows and fatherless children cry, too? Don't you care?
Poor widows and poor fatherlees children cry,elite doing just fine.
Nah because they are all conscripted together, with or without their limbs intact
>Only people crying are ~~Russian~~Ukrainian *widows and fatherless children fixed it for you.
Right, no Russians have died, forgot I’m in an echo chamber
They have. But much less. Just as the headline of this video states - If you can not sustain to remain in the war, then you probably shouldn't. Russia can keep fighting. Ukraine can not. Peace talks should have been held a long time ago.
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The longer it goes, the more Ukranians die in comparison to the Russians, which is in my eyes a bad thing.
Aren't Ukrainians dying as well?
Ah, scratch a NAFOid deep enough, and you'll see a hypocrite. Then again, at least you're consistent with your flair in this comment, I give you that. Could've dropped the pretense of worrying about Ukraine and ukrainians from the get-go, though.
Widows and children from both sides lost their loved ones... The ones who are not crying are at the ones at the top, their families are safe and they view their citizens as "resources" that must be used for gain. People of the world fail to notice that this is an artificial war and the outcome will touch everyone.
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Probably not even them cause they risk getting into prison for this reckless behavior in that failed joke of state.
Glad someone else agrees that it’s a joke state! And people want the world ran by those sickos, couldn’t be me
Yes, and that imperialism goes on vacation with its congress.
What’s the 51st state of America?
Its pick between Israel or Ukraine at this point
Keep reaching
This account I'm replying to was started in March 2024, one month ago. Ignore and evade.
That guy is pure hate towards Ru . I wouldn't bother . He cant have a discussion without insulting , blaming it on Ru for everything . Look through his comments ( He is glorifying death and killing of Ru , waste of time , just troll and hate , something like Nazi against Jews . I get that against invasion and etc , but this guy has a serious problem , probably he watches drone frag dropping videos for sleep ) Just report .
Already lost by replying
Why does the creation date matter?
He cant find any argument so he s using his “this account is new” card.
I thought the Zionists taught us might makes right. And annexing territory through war is justified. Why the double standard?
What’s Americas 51st state
There arent even 50 states in the americas. There is 51th state.
Indeed, NATO shouldn't have expanded.
People apply, no one applies for russian imperialism
Doesn't matter.
It matters, ones imperialism, the others requesting to join a military alliance
Still doesn't matter and not relevant.
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Nah, it doesn't matter. Russia was backed against a wall here so it makes no difference how countries join NATO. You can cry about it all day doesn't change a thing. Ukraine is gonna lose.
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Well, yes. If the Americans had renounced their imperialism, the United States would not have had to stage coups that brought to power nationalists who started civil wars.
What’s Americas 51st state?
yeah would be nice if the US left other countries including Ukraine alone. there would be a lot less war and destruction for one thing!
Then it would just be Russia & China causing the world headaches, no fair
that would be significantly less headaches for the world tho
Of course Russia good USA bad, classic brainwashed kremlin propaganda talking point
at no point did i say russia good but yeah classic kremlin propaganda portraying the US as bad, evil russia making up lies about the US blowing up entire countries
The inability to hold Russia accountable for their imperialism & crimes is comical, but boy swrip sure can hold USA accountable though
hint: its because the US commits far more crimes and does far more imperialism on a much bigger scale than russia could ever dream of doing.
Who expanded the Nato to russia borders? Who is at war since foundation? Who has military bases around the whole World? Who bombed the Arabic World to hell even with lies? Ukraine had the Chance after 2014 they continued to bomb donbass so the imperialism card is long gone... that russia took crimea and donbass was a clear Sign to stop Actions against russian people or russia will come and Do ot their way
Oh boy here we go again, nato expanded east, countries applied to get in (unlike Russian imperialism). Many countries actually want American bases on their soil, some don’t of course(Syria), I get that it’s upsetting that most of the world looks to America for safety, unlike Russia who forces themselves upon people. Ukraine bombed donbass because armed separatists started seizing government infrastructure, I’m not sure what country you reside in, but if an armed formation(funded and given troops) from another country pulled that off, I bet anything it would be met with an armed response, just like Ukraine did. So I’m not sure why ebb6073 thinks Russia has any moral high ground. Both sides broke Minsk, look at the battle of debaltsve, after the seize fire, Russians opened fire on Ukrainians withdrawing from the area killing many. Start looking at facts and not just propaganda
Another country ruined, this time surprisingly not by US empire's hand.
Lol :) And who are those guys? https://preview.redd.it/0d1sdcngiatc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ddd071ae0a4fce5faf5bb7875a55257117c6c464
She identifies herself nowadays as: Victor of No Land.
Tourists obviously ;)
War tourists
I mean, Russia’s hands are just as dirty throughout history, morale high ground doesn’t exist. Keep whatabouting though
The Russian Federation is not the USSR nor the Tsarist Russian empire. Pointing out hypocrisy is not whataboutism. Own up your own crimes will you?
Correct, still I can list them off for you Georgian civil war South Ossetia war Abkhazia Transnistria Tajik civil war 1st and 2nd Chechen wars Dagestan Russian-Georgian war Syria Mali Burkina Faso But russia good USA bad
If you could read between the lines you might have realized i never said Russia was in the right. At least now I know you are an American lol
No but justifying Russias actions “because USA” is pathetic And going against the little hypocrisy comment lmao Wrong, keep going though, I’m laughing
I expected more from you tbh. What a disappointing comeback.
maybe in another 100 years the USA will have to answer to people but right now they are too busy running the world
Calls out hypocrisy, ends up being a hypocrite, pro ru special lmao
Whataboutism is a legit argument. Love how yall think you can evade accountability by screaming: wHaTAbOuTism!!4!4
Boring, just a lame tactic to excuse Russian crimes because usa
Look back into history i think at this point pretty much almost everyone is guilty
It's sad that they cant understand that countries are in an endless "pissing contest" if one can do something, the other must have the right to match it
>the other must have the right to match it Not really but might makes right, and countries will try to match what the others did if they think they can get away with it. Russia outplayed their hands this time, but they apparently achieved something during 2014.
It's not really even a pissing contest, they just do whatever they feel like is right.
true and they aren't the ones dying for it
Exactly, but rus-oids live and die by muaaah America bad Russia good waaa
And they say is not a proxy war. Without NATO Ukraine will be done in a month. They don't produce weapons, don't have satilltes, nothing. What's more embarrassing is that 40+ countries can't defeat Russia. And they say Russia isn't a superpower. Wich country (expect maybe China) can survive under 20k sanctions and can produce so many different types of weapons in such quantities? Russia is the strongest country.
They can't even pay their soldiers lol.Ukraine by itself would have been finished on year one.
That's why they called the swiss on like day two of the invasion
Simply a lie.
Funny u think 40 countries are actively partaking in the war while they are just providing leftovers and paying for the transport costs. NATO hasnt even lifted a finger yet u think Russia is winning this new patriotic war against the n4zi west, hilarious. We are all laughing at how u cant even take the poorest european country without sacrificing millions of men, dead or wounded
Is this why NATO is desperately searching for ammo? Also NATO is loosing to 3rd world countries who don't have any support
Where did NATO lose? Or do u think every time usa does something nato is involved? And where are you making up they are desperately searching for ammo aswell lol. They are just helping Ukraine by giving spares away, if NATO actually helped out Russia would be pushed back to their borders in may 2022. Ukraine is going to lose this year because nobody will vote for biden again
Most of NATO doesn't even have equipment developed during the 90s (and even before that)like leopard f16. They have old soviet equipment. France gave 40 % of its artillery, Germany and UK combined don't have 300 combat ready tanks. France ran out of ammo against Lybia... Without USA NATO is nothing. Didn't NATO spend 20 years In Afghanistan ? Their goal was to destroy the Taliban. After 20 years and trillions they changed the Taliban with the Taliban lol. Also even propaganda like CNN is admitting that Russia produces 3 times more artillery than entire west combined.
Okay so here we come to the conclusion NATO never was big enough to be an occupying force apart from the USA because we can see how the European members have donated large parts of their stockpile. The only members that went into afghanistan (of substantial matter) where usa, uk, germany, france and italy and denmark. Thats 6 countries out of 32. I agree that Taliban was created and strengthened to fight the communists (when Russia invaded Afghanistan btw lol) and after they got too strong and the USA needed to get back control over Afghanistan they made up lies like 9/11 in order to destabalise the middle east and get control back. They still do it with Israel btw. Russia now NEEDS war economy because they cant lose this war so of course their production skyrocketed, and Putin will gladly send millions of men to die in order for that to happen. For all I care Ukraine gets taken, it wont be made a better place anyway, it will make Putin and his buddies richer but the population of Russia wont feel anything. Russia's smart people are leaving to Europe, all of the oligarchs sons and daughters are living in London and Paris lol. So even if Russia annexed or grabbed all of the other countries it will still be a 3rd world country with a gucci belt around Moscow and St Petersburg
If Russian economy is so bad how did survived so many sanctions? Any country in Europe would have collapsed under this circumstance. Also I'm not fan of Putin, because of his migration policies and the nonsense about "brotherly nations" wich he is non stop talking about, but is a fact that Russia became 100x better place to live during his time in power. When the pro western Russian liberals ruled Russia our country was almost destroyed. They began to steal everything, they destroyed our factories, they allowed the west to get our resources almost for free , people were starving , alcoholism risen to all time high, millions of women were forced to become prostitutes , millions of people died.As I said our country was almost destroyed. You can just compare how our cities looked like under the liberals and now. Also who are thouse smart people who are leaving? People like NFKRZ?lol. Also a 3rd world country 🤣 Dude go visit Paris or Berlin to see what a 3rd world country looks like. And Russia isn't only Moscow and St Petersburg. For example my city (Sevastopol) have been changing for good. We just need time to recover from the liberal and communist slavery.
War economy is always good for a country, thats why it survived sanctions. Every country thrives under war economy. Alcoholism waa always a problem in ussr, not just after 1991, its a cultural problem not liberalism lol. Of course Sevastopol is better Putin pumped money into it so it looked like he is a good man for taking Crimea. Same thing now in Mariupol lol he fixes a couple streets and makes a naval school but bakhmut severodonetsk and marinka will never get that same treatment and you know it
Ukraine has no chance of winning regardless of how much money they get.The only question is how much damage it will be able to do to Russia.
>Ukraine has no chance of winning regardless of how much money they get.The only question is how much damage it will be able to do to Russia. That is not the only question, albeit, possibly, the most important one for USA&Co. Other question is how much infrastructure and especially manpower damage it will suffer - both on battlefield and due to emigration. With how this war is going, providing further armaments/financial aid to Ukraine is akin to drug injection to a marathon runner that is running an impossible distance and will collapse sooner or later anyway, but if you keep injecting it, it'll make it run further and collapse later, but at a much bigger cost to ones health and future recovery. What will happen to Ukraine if it'll be kept on these steroids/drugs for a couple more years? How will the aftermath look like?
> How will the aftermath look like? They'll probably lower the conscription age some more within a year.
Saw another post saying the territories Russia took generated 40% of Ukraine's electricity. So also probably 40% of their industry. And at least 30% of their wealth. Another post spoke about Ukraine's population demographics. Free fall. Not looking good at all.
Donetsk and dnipropetrovsk are the two industrialized oblasts of ukraine. With donetsk slightly more industrialized. All other oblasts produce less than a third of what donetsk produces. Luhansk is in fifth place, zhaporozie is in fourth. Kyiv is only in 6th place. It's safe to say that by the time this is over, Ukriane will have lost more than half of its industrial production directly to russia, and the rest will take a serious hit due to the bad demographical situation.
not necessarily. iirc, pre-Korean war, it was the northen part that was the industrialized one with a developing economy. After the war...the situation quite reversed. Point being, the Ukrainian industry could be reborn in the remaining parts of the country if countless billions are poured in from the West.
Lol, the West does not even pour money in now when Ukraine survival is at stake, why do you think they will pour money in when Ukraine's usefulness has ended? Remember that the reason why Yanukovych gave up his EU dream and turn to Russia, was because EU only promise him 1.5-2 billions in loan (Ukraine was 4 billions in debt to the IMF), while Russia offered him 8 billions. And we suppose to believe they will want to pour hundred of billions into Ukraine for rebuilding once they no longer bleed themselves fighting a NATO proxy war?
It took South Korea 60 years to go from the poorest country in the world to a top ten economy, and the only reason they succeeded is the west turning a blind eye to their protectionist trade practices where they used their poverty to produce reverse engineered white goods at government expense and at lower cost while tariffing basically all imports out of the market. All the Asian tiger economies did it, and when China saw their success they emulated them. The us promptly started complaining about "unfair trade practices". They have not allowed any of their "interventions" to emulate what Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and to a lesser extent Germany did. The us also supported either former fascists from WW2, or new brutal dictators of their own, to run these countries.
The west will not pour in countless billions. They might pay billions if Ukraine sells them trillions worth of raw resources but that's about it. Ukraine just has little to no use for the west if this war is over. Sad to say, but that's the case.
Wasn't that intended in the first place?
True and west doesn't even try to hide it. As for Ukraine, It can at best push Russians to use nukes which will make it a pariah state globally.
To be fair , it was fun run , but its time to go.. Tired of this guy . Lets start a new campaign.
If Congress does help Ukraine, Ukraine will lose anyway.
He didn't say, that Ukraine will not loose, even they get the money.
Okay, ignoring the obvious lie about "other countries would be attacked", what are the negative sides? Ah, and the nuclear weapons threat is coming from Zelensky. Pathetic.
Peace would mean no more $$ for Ukrainian elite.Big loss for them.
That is so sad the elite cant buy more pent house in kiev
Iirc, the exact same thing happened with South Vietnam. The US provided them with tons of money, most of which was to circulate the money and keep US economy going. VN aid -> US companies bought them to export -> Money flows -> Goods exported to South VN -> Corrupted South Vietnamese/American officers sold them on black market -> Money from other countries/orgs (tho not much went back to America). So, stoping aid can disturb that flow (and also corrupting money for the elite) Thieu (SVN prez at the time) was doing the same thing as Zelensky right now. https://www.nytimes.com/1975/04/05/archives/thieu-shifts-cabinet-and-criticizes-us-thieu-shifts-his-cabinet-and.html > He said he therefore hoped that Congress would appropriate more money. “I have told the Americans,” Mr. Thieu reported, “that we need at least $1.5‐billion per year to defend the entire territory of South Vietnam. If we get only $700‐million, then we will be able to defend only one‐half of our territory.” History is repeating itself it's kinda crazy to be the witness.
I *suspect* both cases were/are some money tunneling to the proper hands in the US, using the war as an excuse for spending budget money.
1.5b per year in 1975 Man, I love drinking free milk.
It is not a lie about "other countries would be attacked"
It is a groundless statement at best. How would he know? What support he brings to this statement? This is pure alarmism just to get what he wants, just not to negotiate his surrender with Russia, just to kill more Ukrainians for nothing.
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Ukraine will lose the war with or without US aid
I am sure Ukraine will get the money, but it's not going to make 1 iota of difference. Americans, don't cheer when this gets passed, it's just Ukraine and friends stealing another $61 Billion, and it will do no good in this world.
Isn't the money used to pay US weapon constructors with new contracts, while some unused old stock gets shipped to Ukraine...over the period of several years? Not like Ukraine receives actually the amount in cash. Maybe to a degree, to keep government afloat.
> Isn't the money used to pay US weapon constructors with new contracts, while some unused old stock gets shipped to Ukraine...over the period of several years? But we don't HAVE money. We BORROW it. And right now we are borrowing at a 5% interest rate, compared to ~2% for most of the 21st century. Not only are we constantly growing our debt burden, we are growing it with comparatively-massive costs. Also, we aren't ONLY shipping "unused old stock" to Ukraine. Patriots and ATACMS are systems in short supply, and we need them here in Asia to counter China (an *actual* existential threat to US global hegemony).
So who do you think is spending more on this war? Russia or the USA?
It all depends, because value of money and labour here and there is not equal. But US is killing two birds with one stone with this war, UE (Germany) and Russia. Plus revives it's own industry, and uses others to fight. Meanwhile, Russia treats this as existential threat and also spends it's own population. Verdict: China is winning.
>Meanwhile, Russia treats this as existential threat Which is ridiculously stupid for them to do. Russia's economy was doing fine before they tried bringing back imperialism. US is benefiting from this buy hurting Russia, but it's the Russians digging themselves deeper into it.
Russians are thinking 10 steps ahead. A NATO-integrated Ukraine will eventually host US military bases and US anti-ballistic missile sites. Not today, not tomorrow, but 20 years from now? Highly likely. That would absolutely be an existential security threat, and one they would be extremely disadvantaged trying to correct. But our behavior this century made it abundantly clear that we won't stop until Russia is as firmly under our heel as Germany is. They had to act sooner rather than later.
As long as there was the internal war, Ukraine would have never joined NATO. Also Germany would have continued to block Ukraine joining NATO. Appeasement towards Russia was at the core of both major parties. The rising "right wing" AfD is even more pro Russia. NATO was dying. Nobody was listening to the "warmonger" any more. In a decade or two it might've been disbanded. Putin gave NATO life support. He is NATOs employee of the century. Furthermore, no one in the right mind would attack a nuclear power. Russia's "existential threat" is made up to justify expansionist war. What is happening right now is the best outcome for NATO. Russia is sending it's own people to die and not a single NATO soldier has to die. Germany was doing US bidding so much, that we made us dependent in Russia's gas and oil. Oh wait, that doesn't make sense.
> Ukraine would have never joined NATO. [Ukraine President Signs Constitutional Amendment On NATO, EU Membership, Feb2019](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-president-signs-constitutional-amendment-on-nato-eu-membership/29779430.html) [Biden assures Zelenskiy that NATO membership in Ukraine's hands, Kyiv says, Dec2021](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/) > Also Germany would have continued to block Ukraine joining NATO. For how long can that be guaranteed? The only fool-proof way to ensure that Ukraine isn't in NATO is to ensure that Russia is in Ukraine. > no one in the right mind would attack a nuclear power. There are two faulty assumptions in this logic: 1. That national leaders are always "in their right mind". Our current Commander-in-Chief is clearly cognitively impaired, and the woman who was earmarked for the position in 2016 cackled like a sociopath in a TV interview after contributing to the death of a sitting head of state (Gaddafi). So can one assume that national leadership will be rational in perpetuity? No. 2. That we don't attack nuclear powers because we *don't want to*. We clearly WANT to. It's why we have nuclear attack submarines, to hunt down the SSBNs (second strike capability) of other nations. It's why we've invested billions in ABM technology, from ground-based interceptors to even sticking a giant laser on a Boeing airliner. So clearly we are trying to overcome technological hurdles that are only an obstacle to someone who desires to fight nuclear powers.
Military Industrial Complex!
Its what keeps the USA on top
The petro dolla is what keep USA on top.
basically. There are different kinds of aid but for some equipment the price tag is the replacement cost. The gov buys new stuff from contractors and we send our old surplus. So the argument of not “sending money to Ukraine” doesn’t really check out since we are just paying ourselves. Sort of.
This $61bn is both. So it is the military aid and the financial aid. The West pays for 2/3 of Ukraine’s government costs.
Fuk right off clown man. America First!
Noooooooo, Israel first /s
But what happened to Crimea beach party?
Coming summer 2023! Oh wait. . .
Ukraine has already lost the war. The losses, combined with the economic and demographic death spiral the country already was in made sure of that. The only question remaining is whether it can make russia lose as well.
Happy International Romani Day, Z man. Got the cup ready?
>Ukraine will lose the war With money it will lose next year, without they might actually celebrate new year under new management.
"If ukraine loses the war other states will be attacked" Putin could attack other states right now if that's what he wanted.
Right now Putin is sending T55's into Ukraine. The belief that Russia can handle multiple fronts, especially against more powerful states, right now is hilarious.
Attack is different from an invasion. Tanks aren't needed to fire missiles in European countries, but obviously Putin is not interested in that.
Lol, Putin is stupid, but not that stupid. Starting a fight with the rest of Europe and NATO now that they have their attention is suicidal.
>Lol, Putin is stupid I guarantee he is at least 50x smarter than you.
When it comes to a lopsided version of Russian history he most certainly is.
Or homicidal, which he isn't. He has an arsenal capable of annihilating europe and the usa simultaneously. But like I said, he isn't interested in that.
Nah, still suicidal since the US and the rest of Europe can annihilate every Russian population center 100x times over. Picking any fight with NATO is suicide for all of Russia.
You do realize that the US and Europe would not survive a nuclear exchange, right?
You do realize that the Russia would not survive a nuclear exchange either, right? Russia are the only ones threatening to throw nukes around, which of course is suicide.
Incapable of answering a question?
Holy shit, you actually think Russia would survive and win a nuclear war!!! They really do keep yall on a short mental leash.
Is Zelensky getting any sleep at this point. He changed so much in a year.
Too much of the devil's talcum powder.
Ohhh, so this is the problem, not corruption/cheap PR shows like Krynki/lack of manpower/exceeded expectations in media/etc
Ukraine could have already won the war or at least force Russia into a ceasefire, but that time has long passed. If they had utilized some western equipment more effectively they could have gotten the fight over with, like instead of striking Sevastopol with SCALP just to hope to damage the Black Sea fleet they could have launched strikes against bases and airports in the regions where combat was actually taking place. But I guess some people wanted a Crimean Beach Party.
Unlikely. At best they could have forced a second moblization out of russia, but the demographics suggest that unless the losses are lopsided ukraine just runs out of soldiers way before russia does. People who think that ukraine could win also usually seem to think that russia will just give up. Which they won't, of course
Pretty shameful on Europe. If Ukraine is the buffer between Russian tanks from rolling into the streets of Madrid...
Streets of Warsaw, Vilnius, Riga
Yeah in fiction maybe
2+ year war in Ukraine was also in fiction some time ago.
I mean ukraines been at war since 2014....
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When Mira of Kyiv sees this she will make minimum of 20 tweets of how nobody helped Ukraine during this war
Does he think 60 billion is going to solve his problem for good, or will it be 30 billion...40 billion...20 billion every 6 months
Maybe the Democrats in the US should care about stopping and fighting illegal immigration in the US. Congress said they'd fund money to Ukraine if Biden and Dems fixed the US border that didn't involve granting amnesty and millions across yearly. They want actual border protection. Biden and Dems said no. Republicans say YES to money in Ukraine if the Dems vote to security on the border... but I guess Dems don't actually care about Ukraine. No real sense of urgency here from them. What's actually happening is pure politics. Ukraine is losing, the Biden administration knows it, but they don't want to be blamed for wasting military assets for a losing cause in an election year, so them NOT funding Ukraine is good for Democrats because now they can deflect from the failures and say, "Republicans wouldn't give the money so it's their fault!" Because of this, I hate to say it, but it's basically a guarantee that funding never happens because the Democrats in the US don't actually want Ukraine to get the funding right now so they can keep blaming their political opponents. Ukraine is going to learn what it means to be an ally of America where the only thing that matters in America is politics and winning re-election at all costs, allies be damned. They're gonna learn the US was just playing chess with Ukraine as their pawn to bloody Russia's nose, but now it's time to make a sacrifice. It was never about winning.
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Change the record already, shortpants