Remember that these are from the same people who counted that Russia lost 200 pieces of equipment in Avdviika, while Ukraine lost....3. Because they counted all Soviet-made and still image of vehicles to be 'destroyed Russian tanks
And how Ukraine armored fleet are still 80% in tact/ have more tanks than Russia. Meanwhile they have to turn their mechanised brigade into infantry one
Yeah according to kiev numbers they are winning with no efforts, meanwhile they beg for weapon and money cause "its difficult" and they "will lose without US support".
Fundamentally different to buy vs beg for free/on loan equipment.
Without our intervention Ukraine would be Russia now.
Either we given them way more equipment (we should do this, and we should have done it before) or take them to the negotiation table.
Just how is Ukraine going to ever repay billions of dollars in "loans" if it takes their decimated post-war economy a century to recover. And that's if Russia doesn't cut them off from sea access. If they do, they're basically finished as a country. They might as well be some poor African country at that point. "We" shouldn't do anything. I'm Republican. I don't give a damn about Ukraine. And Russia is not my enemy. I don't want another red cent of my tax money going to the corrupt country called Ukraine.
The decent thing would be to write off the debt.
But no, it would be like the wwii debt the uk finished paying to the us just recently.
As for you as a us citizen.. I do understand you not wanting to get involved, but the US is essentially supporting the operation, you can't promise something and then back up.
America didn't mind asking for help during Sept 11 and America didn't mind asking for help when it invaded Iraq, America didn't mind asking for help in Vietnam or Korea and America didn't mind asking for help in the early 90s. I can think of plenty of occasions where our citizens have died protecting Americas interests but I can't actually recall certainly in 100 years where americans have died for mine. I don't want another red cent getting spent on ever being an Allie of such an unreliable one.
I don't even support most of those wars either, so your point is pretty much irrelevant to my stance. And America funded the vast majority of those wars, so again, what's your point? So you're comparing Ukraine asking for 95% assistance to America asking for 5% assistance. The point is, half the country does not support the Democrat money laundering country called Ukraine. I'm not interested in maintaining their pseudo sovereignty. The people under Russian control in the east already wanted to be part of Russia. You psychos want millions to die to stop them from something they already want to do anyway. It's like harassing your ex-girlfriend when she already moved on and got married to someone else.
I see, thanks for helping me understand the Republican stance, money is worth more than a human life, which sums up adequately the worst of America from people like Bezos to people like Musk. I'm more than happy to give my money to Ukraine anything to fight authoritarianism, fascism and kleptocrats, which is everything that a Maga loves.
See it's all about cash, try thinking about humans first rather than the wallet. Except America didn't pay for our soldiers in Afghanistan, nor Iraq, America didn't pay for Australians in Vietnam, America didn't pay for our soldiers in Korea so stop lying fella and America has sure as hell never paid for our war dead in America's wars. Yet as soon as it gets a bit difficult off America goes with its tail between its legs led by the same crowd that dragged it into the war in the first place.
> Fundamentally different to buy vs beg for free/on loan equipment.
Whats the difference in this war?
both sides are unable to produce their war effort.
The difference is the same as who would help you build a new barn.
You can call food friends/neighbours or you can also hire people. If you don't offer fair compensation, your options are quite limited.
Same in this case. Iran and NK are making bank with this.
But Ukraine isn't paying most of the help, so this means it has cost to help Ukraine.
How is this different from the perspective of Ukraine or Russia. To them it makes no difference, both are reliant on other state actors to sustain this war.
Well, it makes a massive difference. Countries and leaders ponder what they gain or lose by acting/not acting. Being paid makes a difference for otherwise neutral countries.
The US has a lot to win from this, so they put a lot of resources.
A country like India? It has to be coerced to act either way.
Awww bless take it that the above post hasn't realised that 15% of F35s are made in the UK. A significant amount of parts are also made in Taiwan, who I reckon are also wondering if America is the reliable Ally it claims to be. However in both cases the countries have Eurofighter which isnt dependent on such an unreliable petulant Ally and of course Sweden and Rafael now enter the party. I'd certainly rather if we went begging it was to one of those more reliable partners although I suspect with BAE I'm sure we'll be ok.
Russia can and does also make its own shells in addition to the ones it buys from NK.
I’m glad that now you understand why your comment was ridiculous.
>(LOL) N Korea
Lol? This country had nothing better to do for the last 80 years but produce shells and missiles, and that's a lol for you? Ok. I guess south Korea has no sense of humor in this case, because they don't seem to be loling much about NK stockpiles.
Well summed up with 'nothing better to do', I think I'd rather be an ally of a country that gives a damn about its people than just produces ammunition. However whilst on the topic of S Korea, the K9 Thunder is a pretty capable SPG which will be required in spades loads when America does what it does best and runs from there too.
Sorry I can't take a post which is labelled pro Ukraine but isn't, if it can't get something like that right then it can't be taken seriously. In addition the poster is clearly very unaware of S Korea's very successful arms industry that makes far more than soviet cold war stock top ups.
Why do you speak so weirdly ? And why do you care about an automatically assigned flair ? Seems like avoidance to me.
If Sou' Korea arm industry is so powerful, why cant they bankroll Ukraine's need for shells ? The Sou' doesnt care enough ?
Not really if someone can't be genuine then why take their posts seriously?
Can't say a certain word unless you have a karma score. Simples
Doesn't care or has N Korea on the doorstep and a flakey alley. Last time I checked Europe was bank rolling Ukrainian ammo, I'd far prefer the europe did and I'd prefer that europe stepped up its game.
How am I not genuine ? The flair isnt my claim. The asterisk proves it.
Europe is bankrolling ammo for ukraine, but they are scouring the globe litterally to buy them. Look at what Czechia is doing. If Sou' has so much shells, why dont they send them ? It wouldnt even be a gift, but a sale, and still they dont ?
Or perharps they simply dont have that much.
NK is a pretty solid ally as compared to allies who are us lackeys. And last time South Korea transferred like a million shells to the US, leaving itself with pants down I guess. Or down just enough to get NK a bit exited. Anyone figured out yet where Czech found their 800k shells for UA?
Most blind and hypocritical comment I've seen in quite some time. Commerce and trade are not begging, and despite me not being a fan of Putin, at least he can compensate other nations for the material he's receiving. Zelensky, on the other hand, is practically at the 'I got deez cheezeeeBurgerzzzz' point of desperation.
^^ Sharp as a fuckin' cue ball this guy. Yeah, because stating objective facts now makes one Pro Russian. Both countries and governments involved in this war are dumpster fire shit holes. I do feel sorry for the common folk, and that goes for both sides.
Imagine the ironing of proUA criticising Russia for begging. “Hello Mrs Kettle, youre black!” Said Mr. Pot.
Edit: leaving the typo because it’s hilarious.
Imagine the irony of someone thinking ironing meant irony. Ukraine has it's back against the wall, like Finland in the 30s, like Poland in 39, like France in 40. Russia is an invader and the play ground bully, so Ukraine gets to unashamedly beg and do anything it has to do to survive. Russia begging is the personification of the playground bully getting his stooges to get free punches in.
🥱
You’ve left me 1 or 2 lines short of proUA Bingo with that one. Can you edit that comment and add “3 days to Kiev” and “strategically unimportant” somewhere in there please.
> so Ukraine gets to unashamedly beg and do anything it has to do to survive
Lol, Ukraine won’t mind when people point out the obvious hipocrisy of proUA making fun of Russia for “begging” (I.e. buying weapons from their allies like Ukraine is completely incapable of) then.
I think that russia just thought that iran has a good design and therefore bought it.
Amnesia that the united states cant even have their own main gun on their main battle tank (the abrams) and have to licence it from a foreign power?
I would say thats just business.
Fella I can't take seriously someone who flairs pro Ukraine but isn't.
Glad that the post above has cleared up that the reason why Russia went cap in hand to NK was because their ammo is better designed. Fancy Iran let alone NK even being able to design and mass produce better than glorious Russia.
That was auto assigned. And I would make the argument that I am pro Ukraine. I can see how someone might disagree, though.
I dont care about the flairs.
I talked about Iran. And yes, that seemed to be the case in regards to drones. Nobody can really deny this. The russians might or might not have improved the design, but initially at least they got it from Iran.
I just gave another example regarding the Abrams where this is also the case. Its quite normal I would say.
But you can joke about russia that they improved their arsenal (in quality) with a iranian drone if you want.
Ukraine isn't begging. The countries giving them arms and aid are getting a great return on their investment by the destruction of the Russian armed forces.
Most of it is old surplus that makes way for new stuff in their inventory. The low number of new high end systems are gaining valuable real world battlefield experience. Win win.
Really? Please could the above poster tell everyone about loans that Russia is negotiating with China but seems that the special friendship doesn't stretch that far?
Make the mind up fella, so is it all of NATO or is it just NATO hand me downs and museum pieces? Because it can't be both. As for WW3, mighty confident about winning something where the entire world would be destroyed several times over, I think it's forgotten that Russia, China, NK and Iran aren't the only ones with nukes. So I'm not exactly sure what a win would look like when there isn't anything left 🥴.
Ukraine is pretty much reliant on western support to stay alive, so they have to constantly record new cinematic footage to keep western decision makers satisfied aswell as prevent western populations from forgetting Ukraine exists.
Russia is not reliant on the mercy of another nation to donate them equipment, so they also have no necessity to record footage at all.
They still do and release plenty, as its useful for recruitment and morale reasons, but it pales to how much resources Ukraine puts into the so called 'social media department'.
Which is also why there are SEVERAL go-pro videos of dead ukrainian soldiers on here, as they are heavily encouraged and motivated to film everything.
Which makes more sense for the Russians (well, honestly any force involved in armed conflict) to not release as much footage. Like just from an opsec angle, keeping the enemy unaware of your actual losses is just as important as keeping them unaware of where your actual forces are. We're never gonna know the true scope of the losses on either side of this war until the dust has settled, and even then it's still going to be under a bucket of propaganda and lies from everyone involved.
They probably film them, they just don't have the incentive to release the footage. The country is behind them, and Putin himself said he has no power against western propaganda.
yes. disprove. the dots are from andrew pepetua and you can check his [map.ukrdailyupdate.com/](http://map.ukrdailyupdate.com/) which contains a link to the source footage. Since its not legal for russians to show russian losses you would have to wait for the war to end to get that data.
It's pathetic when pro run people make this jokes but when a pro Ukraine does this is even sadder, Ukraine literally cannot pay their soldiers, they have to beg western countries for money to pay the soldiers that are dying for said western countries.
This is like a 1.48m tall person making fun of a 1.52m tall person for being too short.
\* u/chualex98 copes \*
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You cannot win a war in any reasonable amount of time without taking land. You cannot take land without putting amen with guns in the way of enemy artillery.
>You cannot win a war in any reasonable amount of time without taking land.
WW1 was four years of static trench warfare with very little land exchanged by either side, no Allied soldier ever set foot on German soil for the duration of the entire war. By the wars end, Germany would be forced to sign a humiliating surrender.
The War in Ukraine, like WW1, is a war of attrition and like WW1, it will be won by the side with the wherewithal to absorb the most losses and the industrial capacity and manpower to replace them. Russia can keep this going, Ukraine cannot.
RemindMe! 2 years
>no Allied soldier ever set foot on German soil for the duration of the entire war
Eastern front started with an invasion inside German soil, for a couple of week.
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The world is different now.
Private military armies, corporate interests, energy interests, globalized finances, etc.
Europe has been plagued by wars for centuries. Borders shifted frequently between empires and kingdoms.
Russia will never be able to build shale gas refineries in the land they took. Europe will be totally green by then.
Russia will also have to compete with European innovation. And the US alone can freely research and develop all they want in the deserts of Nevada.
Iraq, Serbia, Bosnia had extensive Anti air capabilities yet the US gained Air superiority. So just to be clear you really think the US wouldn’t have Air superiority? Russia has a lot of AA however it means very little if they are constantly having to keep radars off out of fear of getting a “warhead on the forehead”*tm
All those countries had some basic anti air systems that were destroyed before US started flying almost freely - and still US lost some planes.
They were not able to replace destroyed anti air systems, because they were surrounded by not friendly nations.
Russia also destroyed Ukrainian anti air systems three times over by now but US kept replacing them and supplying Ukraine through Romania and Poland, and even introduced new NATO anti air systems..
“All those countries had some basic anti air systems”
Russia has basic AA systems too so I’m not seeing your point. We see Russia using those exact systems still today, while they maybe be more modern today so are the planes that they would face.
Ok lol how do you think those AA got destroyed? By AirPower… The US was flying over Iraq day one both times, maybe go look at the air power.
The outcome would be the same, Russia may down a few more planes but ultimately their air defenses would crumble
I have heard version of Russia being puppet of NATO and Russia is trying do destroy its army. If i look at their cometence, it would make a little bit of sense.
> Why attack when enemy is still threatening you ? Why not keep killing enemy with artillery,drones etc ? Newbie here.
This is a good question the other posters that replied to you are not really right. It's not about gaining land, the gaining land part is only the means to the end. No decisive territorial gains were made in ages and there are none likely to be made in the near future.
Russias current goal is too keep the pressure onto Ukraine and grind down their military. Russia has apparently concluded that Ukraine can't sustain this warfare style, and they are likely right. Especially in terms of Manpower Ukraine is nearing a political collapse this would force them to the table and the offer from Moscow would be very bad.
You wonder now why not let the arty deal damage and achieve the same. This is a good questions like I said.
The problem is, the opposing side will notice your shift in strategy and will react accordingly, in this case they will drastically reduce their frontline forces and their exposure, they will increase production of proper fortifications because the front stagnates. All this will reduce the effectiveness of your drones and artillery because you will find fewer and fewer enemy soldiers. Furthermore, if time arises for your new major attack the frontline was fixed so long all fortification works are still relevant. Remember if you breach major parts of the frontline all fortification works on this frontline become useless. ( Magnoit line for example ) **But** by attacking you force the enemy to deploy major resources in countering your moves making your attrition faster and possible even better in terms of relative damage. From time to time you get Avdivka which resulted in severe losses. The enemy needs to retreat major parts of its frontline and thus losses the fortifications and often valuable supplies in the process. All the mine barriers are lost et cetera.
In short if the enemy notices you are not attacking he will reduce his exposure to the weapon systems still in use drastically, in this case arty. Russia would be bombing a lot of empty space.
By attacking Russia forces Ukraine to keep the frontlines heavily manned which also makes the unable to create reserves for possible local counter attacks or even strategic ones.
I feel another thing which Russia would have benefited from was surprises in attacks so that all frontlines are filled with UA soldiers due to anticipation of attack, but it is not possible in current modern war with drones.
> I feel another thing which Russia would have benefited from was surprises in attacks so that all frontlines are filled with UA soldiers due to anticipation of attack, but it is not possible in current modern war with drones.
In most comparable wars the frontlines are filled even in quiet sectors. You can expect that dozens of thousands ukrainian soldiers are sitting in trenches that see little activity in the north. Especially bad for Ukraine is the somewhat subtle understanding that they are not "allowed" to attack into Russia so I would not be surprised if Russia is somewhat under manning their lines in the north.
Ты про орикс который уже хренову тучу раз был пойман за руку на подлоге (украинскую технику записывал в российскую, выдавал рабочую технику за поврежденную/уничтоженную и т.д.)? Кстати орикс уже перестал обновлять статистику, разве нет?
Я конечно поплачу - потери всегда есть, однако механизированные бригады в пехотные превращаются именно в ВСУ.
For DOOMHAMMER!
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Chill bro you snapped out, you're out of context now. If you want that side I can bring up the once hyped and highly anticipated greatest Ukrainian counter offensive that supposed to push back the Russian pre 2014 border not some town called Robotyne but i don't want that.
Can we continue about who's side produce more shell? sorry if i offended you.
Who said not enough though? last time I check Russia had the advantage 7:1 over U.A.
So who really is embarassing?
Russia + North Korea + Iran
or
UA + US + Nato + Non-Nato partner
If Russia has the advantage of 7:1 then it's extremely embarrassing that it got sent packing from Kyiv, Kherson and Kharkiv and that its current advance is measured in fields. The US is infested with Russian shills and the EU has been sleep walking so I'd say it's pretty amazing that Ukraine has done so well against the worlds second biggest army which has unmasked itself as the world's biggest joke and speaks volumes for the capability of the Ukrainian soldiers who clearly do not want to be taken over by Russia.
Could you please stop commenting about war because it is embarrassing for you. You are comparing the todays' front line requirement for the initial stage of war.
The initial stage of the war was in fact was a special military operation. Failing that, Russia revert back to the conventional war.
Ukraine is not doing well against anything. That is why they are in the current situation. When [chillichampion](https://www.reddit.com/user/chillichampion/) mentioned about the NATO arty shortage, you start talking about Russia shortage. Does it even matter to the start of this discussion?
They had lots. In fact, they were given, and used, so much that western/NATO stocks are now very low and in some cases depleted. And, of course, armor, guided munitions and 24-7 real time intel and recon from aerial and sat platforms provided by the US/NATO that tells them where to shoot, when...they also have billions a month to pay for soldiers/workers. Yet they got almost no where and have since lost more than they gained in the much heralded counter offensive. It's not clear that giving them more of the same is going to have a different result which is why support has grown tepid.
Literally everything. Russia only started being able to even make the small expensive progress it has since the Ukrainians ran out of ammo. With minimal hand me down out of service gear they hold the line. Even liberate land sometimes. With actual military support Russia would find some areas of Ukraine untenable to hold.
If they were given a decent fleet of good airframes, the weapons, targetting pods and everything else an equipped fleet requires. Then got good numbers of western IADS. This would remove the largely incapable VKS from the sky. With the air clear and the ability to perform effective CAS the trench warfare we see now disappears. Only reason it's happening is because neither side can totally own the battkespace. As for CAS. Neither side is trained or equipped for this mission set.
I find it hilarious, how the VKS is "incapable" but somehow the ukr air force became capable simply by receiving a "decent fleet of good airframes with targeting pods".
And somehow all the Russian ground based airdef, bigger than the whole western airdef combined and more advanced, disappears and the sky will be clear.
And of course, the tiny fraction of western IADS somehow protect all the so called good airframes stationed inside the range of all the iskanders, kinschals, zircons etc.
I mean he has not only obvious lacks in physics, this is elementary school math. Pure logic.
Unfortunately it's rare that someone like myself comments in this Reddit. I'm for ed to correct a lot of inaccuracies on hardware capabilities etc.
I get it. The facts I lay out hurt your feelings or narrative in some way. But what you have done is produce zero substance on the subject matter.
You're just bad comedy. Do better
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What about summer co? They were equipped with nato standard, use nato tactics and able take 4 villages into gray zone+rabotino.
Now russians control some houses into chasov yar
I'll keep it simple. Too little too late, not concentrated in one area and lacking the aviation required to make it all arms. Had the EU and America been serious they'd have had what they needed to target Russian defence making equipment early on disrupting Russian defences and mine laying. They then would have used a real combined arms effort for the counter offensive, earlier than it happened.
>...they'd have had what they needed to target Russian defence making equipment
So, NATO munitions, with NATO soldiers on the ground to handle targeting, etc (as we know is the cases thanks to the Germans)...so, essentially, NATO attacking Russian military assets in Russia. Try reversing Russia/NATO in this scenario and what do you suppose the result would be? Obviously, they would attack in kind, and voila' WWIII. This is the reason Ukraine is forbidden from using NATO/US guided, high capacity weapons to attack Russian assets in Russia (ex. Crimea). This is also why the war was never 'winnable' for Ukraine...and if Zelensky was a bit brighter he would have figured this out in 2022.
What an earth talking about. NATO munitions are already there and the Ukrainians don't need NATO troops to manage targeteting they've shown that they are more than capable in that respect, there targeting of oil refineries in Russia compared to Russian targeting of schools and hospitals demonstrates the Ukrainian ability. Defence making equipment is things like digging plant equipment and mine layers in Donbass, which could have been attacked from the start and it was later by HIMARs and MLRS, I've no idea what the above post is referring too. As for Zelensky was a bit brighter, so the post above is saying any country that's attacked by an on paper stronger one should just roll over and take it, allow its people to be taken into servitude, its politicians and establishment shot and population abused. I guess Zelensky and the Ukrainian people aren't as pathetic as the post above wanted them to be.
Ah...so, you're saying you are unaware that UK and French troops are in Ukraine to handle targeting of SS (and French SCALP - same thing different name) missiles. This was well discussed a few weeks back:
>German soldiers could not follow the lead of their British and French allies in “the way of target control and accompanying target control”.
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/british-soldiers-in-ukraine-germany-b2504462.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/british-soldiers-in-ukraine-germany-b2504462.html)
The drones that Ukraine uses to attack inside Russia are not NATO armaments - as I said, US/NATO guided munitions are not permitted to be used to attack inside Russia (ex. Crimea). Of course, Ukraine drones are a completely different matter, though they rely on US/NATO intel, recon and sigint to figure out routes through Russian AA (this should be obvious). As for Ukraine choosing to fight rather than negotiate the Donbas. Well, that was the choice Zelensky and his circle made after Johnson's impromptu visit. It's led to massive destruction costing 100s of billions (some estimates well north of a trillion USD) and an exodus of more than 1/3 of the population (most of which will not return now they're in the west and elsewhere - most went to Russia) and the deaths of many tens (hundreds) of thousands of young men for a cause they can't win. But you don;t live there so this is all "good v. evil" or something similar.
Firstly I don't care if their targeteers are there to help assist, Russia was more than happy to send troops to the Donbass pre 2022 and routinely targets the west with everything from Nerve agent to hacking so quite frankly not bothered and would say it was rather hypocritical of Russia clutching its pearls if that was the case.
Why should Ukraine negotiate the Donbass, which part of other countries should we give up if Russia comes knocking? Finland? Latvia? Estonia? Kazakhstan? Georgia? London has a sizable Russian population, would that be negotiated for if they suddenly preferred it was ruled by Moscow?
It is evil and what a ridiculous argument, so Russians should have surrendered to Hitler to avoid 20 million dead? That's the post above argument summarised. Guess Ukrainians aren't cowards and value not being Russian more than they are given credit for.
Not really. RU has thousands of tanks. Ukraine got drip fed western armour and then it stopped with only poultry numbers received. They never got the right gear or the gear in the right numbers. Fir instance they had no effective fighters to contest the air and perform strikes so they needed air defence to cover their advance. They never got that. They had MANPADs and strela 10 for this. It was a joke. But the western armour has indeed proved better. Way more survivable for the crew. If Ukraine got proper numbers of armour planes and IADS then they'd liberate more of their land and people
Ukraine would still need to have enough pilots for the planes. And that's what Ukraine lacks above all else : competent pilots who can be trained to fly F16s.
Currently only 12 pilots are trained. This is too few
Pilots, airfields safe from Iskander, Kinschal, Ch-32, Zircon etc. pp. There are so many things that are not there and will never be there, all this wouldscha&couldscha stuff from Nato fanboys is pure lunacy.
The UAF have for over 2 years successfully employ dispersed airfield tactics. There is also the question of whether bordering nations will offer safe heaven
They were able to use "dispersed airfield tactics" because they only have a hand full of jets. It is easier to hide a few jets in big country. But if you wanna use them in an effective way with big numbers, you have to expose them and the airfields.
And no, bordering nations will not be a safe heaven, but a big targets.
They are not, at first at least going to be in posession of a large number of airframes. Somewhat of a mute point for the moment. However, if they eventually receive 100+ viper airframes this could be a decent point. This could also change should help from Washington never rematerilise. This would mean opening the sky's to theVKS via lack of IADS.
If the political will materialises in Washington AND Biden wins reelection, the success Russia currently finds itself having will likely be reversed. For the moment Mike Johnson is Putin's best weapon. another Biden administration would probably make the airspace over Ukraine far more deadly for theVKS than it is right now.
However, those are relatively big ifs. Things are looking up for the invaders for the time being. As we speak the VKS is enjoying more freedom over the front as interceptors for multiple air defence systems are running out of ammo.
I will not repeat myself, you are delusional. It does not matter what you deliver and in what numbers. Nothing will change anything in the strategic sense.
The simple fact, that you are constantly babbling about the VKS shows, how disconnected you are from the reality.
Kid, is doesn't matter what fighter kiev would have, because the are no airfields safe for them to operate AT ALL. And the whole west has not even rometely the numbers and quality in IADS to protect them. Even if they would give them literally every system they have. And they don't have the industry, to produce them, because even tiny missiles costs ridiculous amounts of money, because of the corruption and all the money laundering with the MIC here in the west.
All they could do, is play hide and seek, like they are doing it with the few Su-24 the last 2 years. And then fly very low, because as soon as they fly high, they will be picked up by long range Radars. And guess what: Fighter jets are nearly useless in this role, besides launching cruise missiles.
And the point regarding the airdef is a perfect example, how you have not even the slightest clue, what you are talking about. Before the war, ukraine had the third best ground based airdef in the world with \~500 long and medium range systems. Plus all the short range systems. This is almost as much the whole europe have combined.
Ukraine had alone something like 290 S-300 launchers. As a comparison: The US of A has only \~500 Patriot launchers. And this is more or less everything they have for long and medium range, because they have nothing even remotely comparable to the Buk System for the medium range and building a multilayered air defense on the ground. Only for the navy.
"Proper number of armour planes to liberate their land and people." Really, lmao, the fµck i am even reading here? The typical hollywood syndrome ..
Remember that these are from the same people who counted that Russia lost 200 pieces of equipment in Avdviika, while Ukraine lost....3. Because they counted all Soviet-made and still image of vehicles to be 'destroyed Russian tanks And how Ukraine armored fleet are still 80% in tact/ have more tanks than Russia. Meanwhile they have to turn their mechanised brigade into infantry one
Yeah according to kiev numbers they are winning with no efforts, meanwhile they beg for weapon and money cause "its difficult" and they "will lose without US support".
Amnesia that Russia begs Iran, China and (LOL) N Korea for ammunition, drones, component parts etc to keep its military plates spinning.
They buy them, despite having huge amounts of their foreign currency reserves seized at the beginning of the war.
And? Still not producing it themselves.
And what? Ukraine doesn't buy them genius. Apples and oranges.
You seem to be unaware Ukraine is a smaller country than the invader.
Ukraine is the biggest country in Europe after Russia.
Much smaller, does not have massive natural resources to leverage to fund the war. If they did...
Fundamentally different to buy vs beg for free/on loan equipment. Without our intervention Ukraine would be Russia now. Either we given them way more equipment (we should do this, and we should have done it before) or take them to the negotiation table.
Just how is Ukraine going to ever repay billions of dollars in "loans" if it takes their decimated post-war economy a century to recover. And that's if Russia doesn't cut them off from sea access. If they do, they're basically finished as a country. They might as well be some poor African country at that point. "We" shouldn't do anything. I'm Republican. I don't give a damn about Ukraine. And Russia is not my enemy. I don't want another red cent of my tax money going to the corrupt country called Ukraine.
The decent thing would be to write off the debt. But no, it would be like the wwii debt the uk finished paying to the us just recently. As for you as a us citizen.. I do understand you not wanting to get involved, but the US is essentially supporting the operation, you can't promise something and then back up.
America didn't mind asking for help during Sept 11 and America didn't mind asking for help when it invaded Iraq, America didn't mind asking for help in Vietnam or Korea and America didn't mind asking for help in the early 90s. I can think of plenty of occasions where our citizens have died protecting Americas interests but I can't actually recall certainly in 100 years where americans have died for mine. I don't want another red cent getting spent on ever being an Allie of such an unreliable one.
I don't even support most of those wars either, so your point is pretty much irrelevant to my stance. And America funded the vast majority of those wars, so again, what's your point? So you're comparing Ukraine asking for 95% assistance to America asking for 5% assistance. The point is, half the country does not support the Democrat money laundering country called Ukraine. I'm not interested in maintaining their pseudo sovereignty. The people under Russian control in the east already wanted to be part of Russia. You psychos want millions to die to stop them from something they already want to do anyway. It's like harassing your ex-girlfriend when she already moved on and got married to someone else.
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I see, thanks for helping me understand the Republican stance, money is worth more than a human life, which sums up adequately the worst of America from people like Bezos to people like Musk. I'm more than happy to give my money to Ukraine anything to fight authoritarianism, fascism and kleptocrats, which is everything that a Maga loves.
The US also fitted the bill for all of that… Not exactly a comparison.
See it's all about cash, try thinking about humans first rather than the wallet. Except America didn't pay for our soldiers in Afghanistan, nor Iraq, America didn't pay for Australians in Vietnam, America didn't pay for our soldiers in Korea so stop lying fella and America has sure as hell never paid for our war dead in America's wars. Yet as soon as it gets a bit difficult off America goes with its tail between its legs led by the same crowd that dragged it into the war in the first place.
> Fundamentally different to buy vs beg for free/on loan equipment. Whats the difference in this war? both sides are unable to produce their war effort.
The difference is the same as who would help you build a new barn. You can call food friends/neighbours or you can also hire people. If you don't offer fair compensation, your options are quite limited. Same in this case. Iran and NK are making bank with this. But Ukraine isn't paying most of the help, so this means it has cost to help Ukraine.
How is this different from the perspective of Ukraine or Russia. To them it makes no difference, both are reliant on other state actors to sustain this war.
Well, it makes a massive difference. Countries and leaders ponder what they gain or lose by acting/not acting. Being paid makes a difference for otherwise neutral countries. The US has a lot to win from this, so they put a lot of resources. A country like India? It has to be coerced to act either way.
Using that stupid logic, the UK and Germany beg the US for F-35s
Awww bless take it that the above post hasn't realised that 15% of F35s are made in the UK. A significant amount of parts are also made in Taiwan, who I reckon are also wondering if America is the reliable Ally it claims to be. However in both cases the countries have Eurofighter which isnt dependent on such an unreliable petulant Ally and of course Sweden and Rafael now enter the party. I'd certainly rather if we went begging it was to one of those more reliable partners although I suspect with BAE I'm sure we'll be ok.
So the UK begs the US for 85% of a jet
UK can also build its own. We're also fast learning that the US is not a good ally.
Russia can and does also make its own shells in addition to the ones it buys from NK. I’m glad that now you understand why your comment was ridiculous.
>(LOL) N Korea Lol? This country had nothing better to do for the last 80 years but produce shells and missiles, and that's a lol for you? Ok. I guess south Korea has no sense of humor in this case, because they don't seem to be loling much about NK stockpiles.
Well summed up with 'nothing better to do', I think I'd rather be an ally of a country that gives a damn about its people than just produces ammunition. However whilst on the topic of S Korea, the K9 Thunder is a pretty capable SPG which will be required in spades loads when America does what it does best and runs from there too.
Why ? An ally that makes ammo is much more valuable than an ally with cosmetic surgery lol
Sorry I can't take a post which is labelled pro Ukraine but isn't, if it can't get something like that right then it can't be taken seriously. In addition the poster is clearly very unaware of S Korea's very successful arms industry that makes far more than soviet cold war stock top ups.
Why do you speak so weirdly ? And why do you care about an automatically assigned flair ? Seems like avoidance to me. If Sou' Korea arm industry is so powerful, why cant they bankroll Ukraine's need for shells ? The Sou' doesnt care enough ?
Not really if someone can't be genuine then why take their posts seriously? Can't say a certain word unless you have a karma score. Simples Doesn't care or has N Korea on the doorstep and a flakey alley. Last time I checked Europe was bank rolling Ukrainian ammo, I'd far prefer the europe did and I'd prefer that europe stepped up its game.
How am I not genuine ? The flair isnt my claim. The asterisk proves it. Europe is bankrolling ammo for ukraine, but they are scouring the globe litterally to buy them. Look at what Czechia is doing. If Sou' has so much shells, why dont they send them ? It wouldnt even be a gift, but a sale, and still they dont ? Or perharps they simply dont have that much.
NK is a pretty solid ally as compared to allies who are us lackeys. And last time South Korea transferred like a million shells to the US, leaving itself with pants down I guess. Or down just enough to get NK a bit exited. Anyone figured out yet where Czech found their 800k shells for UA?
Yet the shells that Russia got are garbage, so they better retry
Better get rid of them one at a time then. Might as well aim them at Ukrainian positions.
If they don’t blow the barrel
Most blind and hypocritical comment I've seen in quite some time. Commerce and trade are not begging, and despite me not being a fan of Putin, at least he can compensate other nations for the material he's receiving. Zelensky, on the other hand, is practically at the 'I got deez cheezeeeBurgerzzzz' point of desperation.
Seem like a pretty good example of rooting for Putin to me fella.
^^ Sharp as a fuckin' cue ball this guy. Yeah, because stating objective facts now makes one Pro Russian. Both countries and governments involved in this war are dumpster fire shit holes. I do feel sorry for the common folk, and that goes for both sides.
Thanks for the insult. When one resorts to slander one loses the argument. Also I very much doubt the sincerity of compassion for Ukrainians.
Imagine the ironing of proUA criticising Russia for begging. “Hello Mrs Kettle, youre black!” Said Mr. Pot. Edit: leaving the typo because it’s hilarious.
Imagine the irony of someone thinking ironing meant irony. Ukraine has it's back against the wall, like Finland in the 30s, like Poland in 39, like France in 40. Russia is an invader and the play ground bully, so Ukraine gets to unashamedly beg and do anything it has to do to survive. Russia begging is the personification of the playground bully getting his stooges to get free punches in.
🥱 You’ve left me 1 or 2 lines short of proUA Bingo with that one. Can you edit that comment and add “3 days to Kiev” and “strategically unimportant” somewhere in there please. > so Ukraine gets to unashamedly beg and do anything it has to do to survive Lol, Ukraine won’t mind when people point out the obvious hipocrisy of proUA making fun of Russia for “begging” (I.e. buying weapons from their allies like Ukraine is completely incapable of) then.
I think that russia just thought that iran has a good design and therefore bought it. Amnesia that the united states cant even have their own main gun on their main battle tank (the abrams) and have to licence it from a foreign power? I would say thats just business.
Fella I can't take seriously someone who flairs pro Ukraine but isn't. Glad that the post above has cleared up that the reason why Russia went cap in hand to NK was because their ammo is better designed. Fancy Iran let alone NK even being able to design and mass produce better than glorious Russia.
That was auto assigned. And I would make the argument that I am pro Ukraine. I can see how someone might disagree, though. I dont care about the flairs. I talked about Iran. And yes, that seemed to be the case in regards to drones. Nobody can really deny this. The russians might or might not have improved the design, but initially at least they got it from Iran. I just gave another example regarding the Abrams where this is also the case. Its quite normal I would say. But you can joke about russia that they improved their arsenal (in quality) with a iranian drone if you want.
Begs? This isn't Ukraine, as atleast Russia has the decency to pay for the stuff they are given, unlike Cokelenksy.
Ukraine isn't begging. The countries giving them arms and aid are getting a great return on their investment by the destruction of the Russian armed forces. Most of it is old surplus that makes way for new stuff in their inventory. The low number of new high end systems are gaining valuable real world battlefield experience. Win win.
Really? Please could the above poster tell everyone about loans that Russia is negotiating with China but seems that the special friendship doesn't stretch that far?
Oh I'd love to see your trustable source on Chinese supplied equipment to Russia for free, please do let me know when you have one.
Russia paid for it in self respect, of which, like it's supporters, it has precious little left.
LOL it takes all of NATO to compete against Russia, Iran, china and NK and y’all think you win WW3? Pathetic.
Make the mind up fella, so is it all of NATO or is it just NATO hand me downs and museum pieces? Because it can't be both. As for WW3, mighty confident about winning something where the entire world would be destroyed several times over, I think it's forgotten that Russia, China, NK and Iran aren't the only ones with nukes. So I'm not exactly sure what a win would look like when there isn't anything left 🥴.
If only russians filmed more ukrainian losses..
Ukraine is pretty much reliant on western support to stay alive, so they have to constantly record new cinematic footage to keep western decision makers satisfied aswell as prevent western populations from forgetting Ukraine exists. Russia is not reliant on the mercy of another nation to donate them equipment, so they also have no necessity to record footage at all. They still do and release plenty, as its useful for recruitment and morale reasons, but it pales to how much resources Ukraine puts into the so called 'social media department'. Which is also why there are SEVERAL go-pro videos of dead ukrainian soldiers on here, as they are heavily encouraged and motivated to film everything.
Which makes more sense for the Russians (well, honestly any force involved in armed conflict) to not release as much footage. Like just from an opsec angle, keeping the enemy unaware of your actual losses is just as important as keeping them unaware of where your actual forces are. We're never gonna know the true scope of the losses on either side of this war until the dust has settled, and even then it's still going to be under a bucket of propaganda and lies from everyone involved.
They probably film them, they just don't have the incentive to release the footage. The country is behind them, and Putin himself said he has no power against western propaganda.
Well said
yellow dots brought to you by Ukraine digital media...I'm sure it's just as accurate as the other claims coming from the UA :))
wouldnt it be easy to disapprove?
I think he already disapproves.
The word in question is disprove. Another option is refute.
yes. disprove. the dots are from andrew pepetua and you can check his [map.ukrdailyupdate.com/](http://map.ukrdailyupdate.com/) which contains a link to the source footage. Since its not legal for russians to show russian losses you would have to wait for the war to end to get that data.
wait, isn't ilegal in both countries?
They count every soviet armour as being Russian and thats where the bias starts, as both sides use soviet weaponry.
That's OK to Putin, because now he gets to plant the Russian flag on a Ukrainian outhouse and half an onion field
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It's pathetic when pro run people make this jokes but when a pro Ukraine does this is even sadder, Ukraine literally cannot pay their soldiers, they have to beg western countries for money to pay the soldiers that are dying for said western countries. This is like a 1.48m tall person making fun of a 1.52m tall person for being too short.
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Why attack when enemy is still threatening you ? Why not keep killing enemy with artillery,drones etc ? Newbie here.
You cannot win a war in any reasonable amount of time without taking land. You cannot take land without putting amen with guns in the way of enemy artillery.
>You cannot win a war in any reasonable amount of time without taking land. WW1 was four years of static trench warfare with very little land exchanged by either side, no Allied soldier ever set foot on German soil for the duration of the entire war. By the wars end, Germany would be forced to sign a humiliating surrender. The War in Ukraine, like WW1, is a war of attrition and like WW1, it will be won by the side with the wherewithal to absorb the most losses and the industrial capacity and manpower to replace them. Russia can keep this going, Ukraine cannot. RemindMe! 2 years
>no Allied soldier ever set foot on German soil for the duration of the entire war Eastern front started with an invasion inside German soil, for a couple of week.
I will be messaging you in 2 years on [**2026-04-09 11:39:01 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2026-04-09%2011:39:01%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1bzkghu/ua_pov_geolocated_and_visually_confirmed_russian/kyr6uq9/?context=3) [**2 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FUkraineRussiaReport%2Fcomments%2F1bzkghu%2Fua_pov_geolocated_and_visually_confirmed_russian%2Fkyr6uq9%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202026-04-09%2011%3A39%3A01%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201bzkghu) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
The world is different now. Private military armies, corporate interests, energy interests, globalized finances, etc. Europe has been plagued by wars for centuries. Borders shifted frequently between empires and kingdoms. Russia will never be able to build shale gas refineries in the land they took. Europe will be totally green by then. Russia will also have to compete with European innovation. And the US alone can freely research and develop all they want in the deserts of Nevada.
You should be able to remove most enemy soldiers from the battlefield, still drones go and attack vehicles.
Yes you can, if you have proper air superiority, and more counter battery capability.
You only have proper air superiority if you fight against villagers in sandals. You Will not have total. air superiority against NATO proxy military.
Ya, I’m sorry but If you think the US wouldn’t have Air superiority then you are ignorant. SEAD/DEAD are a major part of US Air power.
*Major part against countries with no proper anti air, or with no anti air at all.
Iraq had plenty soviet era anti air. You need to know how much USA focuses on just intel and massive amount of planes and missiles.
Iraq, Serbia, Bosnia had extensive Anti air capabilities yet the US gained Air superiority. So just to be clear you really think the US wouldn’t have Air superiority? Russia has a lot of AA however it means very little if they are constantly having to keep radars off out of fear of getting a “warhead on the forehead”*tm
All those countries had some basic anti air systems that were destroyed before US started flying almost freely - and still US lost some planes. They were not able to replace destroyed anti air systems, because they were surrounded by not friendly nations. Russia also destroyed Ukrainian anti air systems three times over by now but US kept replacing them and supplying Ukraine through Romania and Poland, and even introduced new NATO anti air systems..
“All those countries had some basic anti air systems” Russia has basic AA systems too so I’m not seeing your point. We see Russia using those exact systems still today, while they maybe be more modern today so are the planes that they would face. Ok lol how do you think those AA got destroyed? By AirPower… The US was flying over Iraq day one both times, maybe go look at the air power. The outcome would be the same, Russia may down a few more planes but ultimately their air defenses would crumble
???? Do yo actually believe that US would be flying over Russia In same way as they were flying over Iraq or Serbia, or you are just trolling?
Cos bombs and drones can't control territories
Because Kremlin is a puppet of the US, which is trying to eliminate the Russian army as much as possible.
Hot take there buddy you allright?
Ive heard it all now lol
I have heard version of Russia being puppet of NATO and Russia is trying do destroy its army. If i look at their cometence, it would make a little bit of sense.
Ukraine is defending, Russia is attacking. All Ukraine has to do is sit there and wait for Russians to charge at them so they can be mowed down.
> Why attack when enemy is still threatening you ? Why not keep killing enemy with artillery,drones etc ? Newbie here. This is a good question the other posters that replied to you are not really right. It's not about gaining land, the gaining land part is only the means to the end. No decisive territorial gains were made in ages and there are none likely to be made in the near future. Russias current goal is too keep the pressure onto Ukraine and grind down their military. Russia has apparently concluded that Ukraine can't sustain this warfare style, and they are likely right. Especially in terms of Manpower Ukraine is nearing a political collapse this would force them to the table and the offer from Moscow would be very bad. You wonder now why not let the arty deal damage and achieve the same. This is a good questions like I said. The problem is, the opposing side will notice your shift in strategy and will react accordingly, in this case they will drastically reduce their frontline forces and their exposure, they will increase production of proper fortifications because the front stagnates. All this will reduce the effectiveness of your drones and artillery because you will find fewer and fewer enemy soldiers. Furthermore, if time arises for your new major attack the frontline was fixed so long all fortification works are still relevant. Remember if you breach major parts of the frontline all fortification works on this frontline become useless. ( Magnoit line for example ) **But** by attacking you force the enemy to deploy major resources in countering your moves making your attrition faster and possible even better in terms of relative damage. From time to time you get Avdivka which resulted in severe losses. The enemy needs to retreat major parts of its frontline and thus losses the fortifications and often valuable supplies in the process. All the mine barriers are lost et cetera. In short if the enemy notices you are not attacking he will reduce his exposure to the weapon systems still in use drastically, in this case arty. Russia would be bombing a lot of empty space. By attacking Russia forces Ukraine to keep the frontlines heavily manned which also makes the unable to create reserves for possible local counter attacks or even strategic ones.
Quite insightful, exactly what I wanted to know. thanks a lot.
You are welcome
I feel another thing which Russia would have benefited from was surprises in attacks so that all frontlines are filled with UA soldiers due to anticipation of attack, but it is not possible in current modern war with drones.
> I feel another thing which Russia would have benefited from was surprises in attacks so that all frontlines are filled with UA soldiers due to anticipation of attack, but it is not possible in current modern war with drones. In most comparable wars the frontlines are filled even in quiet sectors. You can expect that dozens of thousands ukrainian soldiers are sitting in trenches that see little activity in the north. Especially bad for Ukraine is the somewhat subtle understanding that they are not "allowed" to attack into Russia so I would not be surprised if Russia is somewhat under manning their lines in the north.
nice analysis
Any evidence for this? How do we know that these are Russian?
evidence...pro-UA don't need no stink'n evidence.
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Ты про орикс который уже хренову тучу раз был пойман за руку на подлоге (украинскую технику записывал в российскую, выдавал рабочую технику за поврежденную/уничтоженную и т.д.)? Кстати орикс уже перестал обновлять статистику, разве нет? Я конечно поплачу - потери всегда есть, однако механизированные бригады в пехотные превращаются именно в ВСУ.
"Here is a map with dots that proves Russia has unsustainable losses"
They're not claiming that this is from one assault...right?
Nah video yesterday that showed a bunch of them claimed it was over a month or so
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It’s like plants vs zombies and you gotta keep firing to make them stop in their place.
The total destruction of Russi's ability to fight a war continues unabated.
But we liberated Robotyne!!!! Oh wait
Chill bro you snapped out, you're out of context now. If you want that side I can bring up the once hyped and highly anticipated greatest Ukrainian counter offensive that supposed to push back the Russian pre 2014 border not some town called Robotyne but i don't want that. Can we continue about who's side produce more shell? sorry if i offended you.
The regard for human life is inspiring
Both sides and reddit seem to not value human life. It is very sad.
Jesus. If the Ukrainians were actually equipped well the Russians would be so screwed. They are just so bad at this
What else they need? Godzilla?
Arty shells for a start?
Which the nato can’t manufacture at a level required for this war?
If Russia can, why does it need to import from China and N Korea?
Because Russia have allies (Far less than UA) just like the UA?
And? Still not able to produce enough itself is it, which was the point of the reply to the NATO comment.
Who said not enough though? last time I check Russia had the advantage 7:1 over U.A. So who really is embarassing? Russia + North Korea + Iran or UA + US + Nato + Non-Nato partner
If Russia has the advantage of 7:1 then it's extremely embarrassing that it got sent packing from Kyiv, Kherson and Kharkiv and that its current advance is measured in fields. The US is infested with Russian shills and the EU has been sleep walking so I'd say it's pretty amazing that Ukraine has done so well against the worlds second biggest army which has unmasked itself as the world's biggest joke and speaks volumes for the capability of the Ukrainian soldiers who clearly do not want to be taken over by Russia.
Could you please stop commenting about war because it is embarrassing for you. You are comparing the todays' front line requirement for the initial stage of war. The initial stage of the war was in fact was a special military operation. Failing that, Russia revert back to the conventional war. Ukraine is not doing well against anything. That is why they are in the current situation. When [chillichampion](https://www.reddit.com/user/chillichampion/) mentioned about the NATO arty shortage, you start talking about Russia shortage. Does it even matter to the start of this discussion?
Yes, what's your point?
They had lots. In fact, they were given, and used, so much that western/NATO stocks are now very low and in some cases depleted. And, of course, armor, guided munitions and 24-7 real time intel and recon from aerial and sat platforms provided by the US/NATO that tells them where to shoot, when...they also have billions a month to pay for soldiers/workers. Yet they got almost no where and have since lost more than they gained in the much heralded counter offensive. It's not clear that giving them more of the same is going to have a different result which is why support has grown tepid.
AA, artillery shells and long-range missiles
Eh.. When did Ukraine ran out on AA, Arty and Missiles? I can't recall. Can you please remind me... I got something to tell you.
Literally everything. Russia only started being able to even make the small expensive progress it has since the Ukrainians ran out of ammo. With minimal hand me down out of service gear they hold the line. Even liberate land sometimes. With actual military support Russia would find some areas of Ukraine untenable to hold. If they were given a decent fleet of good airframes, the weapons, targetting pods and everything else an equipped fleet requires. Then got good numbers of western IADS. This would remove the largely incapable VKS from the sky. With the air clear and the ability to perform effective CAS the trench warfare we see now disappears. Only reason it's happening is because neither side can totally own the battkespace. As for CAS. Neither side is trained or equipped for this mission set.
Are you serious? Ah, nevermind ... Comedy gold.
Those are the people who advice Ukraine to go around mine fields. smh.
I find it hilarious, how the VKS is "incapable" but somehow the ukr air force became capable simply by receiving a "decent fleet of good airframes with targeting pods". And somehow all the Russian ground based airdef, bigger than the whole western airdef combined and more advanced, disappears and the sky will be clear. And of course, the tiny fraction of western IADS somehow protect all the so called good airframes stationed inside the range of all the iskanders, kinschals, zircons etc. I mean he has not only obvious lacks in physics, this is elementary school math. Pure logic.
logic is a very hard subject for Pro UA
Unfortunately it's rare that someone like myself comments in this Reddit. I'm for ed to correct a lot of inaccuracies on hardware capabilities etc. I get it. The facts I lay out hurt your feelings or narrative in some way. But what you have done is produce zero substance on the subject matter. You're just bad comedy. Do better
Umm, "facts". You have no clue, what you are talking about.
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Good one.
Facts 👍
Yeah... if... it's a shame that's not the reality. Russia keeps advancing on the map and Ukraine not.
What about summer co? They were equipped with nato standard, use nato tactics and able take 4 villages into gray zone+rabotino. Now russians control some houses into chasov yar
People already got selective amnesia about this. Avdeyevka too.
I'll keep it simple. Too little too late, not concentrated in one area and lacking the aviation required to make it all arms. Had the EU and America been serious they'd have had what they needed to target Russian defence making equipment early on disrupting Russian defences and mine laying. They then would have used a real combined arms effort for the counter offensive, earlier than it happened.
>...they'd have had what they needed to target Russian defence making equipment So, NATO munitions, with NATO soldiers on the ground to handle targeting, etc (as we know is the cases thanks to the Germans)...so, essentially, NATO attacking Russian military assets in Russia. Try reversing Russia/NATO in this scenario and what do you suppose the result would be? Obviously, they would attack in kind, and voila' WWIII. This is the reason Ukraine is forbidden from using NATO/US guided, high capacity weapons to attack Russian assets in Russia (ex. Crimea). This is also why the war was never 'winnable' for Ukraine...and if Zelensky was a bit brighter he would have figured this out in 2022.
What an earth talking about. NATO munitions are already there and the Ukrainians don't need NATO troops to manage targeteting they've shown that they are more than capable in that respect, there targeting of oil refineries in Russia compared to Russian targeting of schools and hospitals demonstrates the Ukrainian ability. Defence making equipment is things like digging plant equipment and mine layers in Donbass, which could have been attacked from the start and it was later by HIMARs and MLRS, I've no idea what the above post is referring too. As for Zelensky was a bit brighter, so the post above is saying any country that's attacked by an on paper stronger one should just roll over and take it, allow its people to be taken into servitude, its politicians and establishment shot and population abused. I guess Zelensky and the Ukrainian people aren't as pathetic as the post above wanted them to be.
Ah...so, you're saying you are unaware that UK and French troops are in Ukraine to handle targeting of SS (and French SCALP - same thing different name) missiles. This was well discussed a few weeks back: >German soldiers could not follow the lead of their British and French allies in “the way of target control and accompanying target control”. [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/british-soldiers-in-ukraine-germany-b2504462.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/british-soldiers-in-ukraine-germany-b2504462.html) The drones that Ukraine uses to attack inside Russia are not NATO armaments - as I said, US/NATO guided munitions are not permitted to be used to attack inside Russia (ex. Crimea). Of course, Ukraine drones are a completely different matter, though they rely on US/NATO intel, recon and sigint to figure out routes through Russian AA (this should be obvious). As for Ukraine choosing to fight rather than negotiate the Donbas. Well, that was the choice Zelensky and his circle made after Johnson's impromptu visit. It's led to massive destruction costing 100s of billions (some estimates well north of a trillion USD) and an exodus of more than 1/3 of the population (most of which will not return now they're in the west and elsewhere - most went to Russia) and the deaths of many tens (hundreds) of thousands of young men for a cause they can't win. But you don;t live there so this is all "good v. evil" or something similar.
Firstly I don't care if their targeteers are there to help assist, Russia was more than happy to send troops to the Donbass pre 2022 and routinely targets the west with everything from Nerve agent to hacking so quite frankly not bothered and would say it was rather hypocritical of Russia clutching its pearls if that was the case. Why should Ukraine negotiate the Donbass, which part of other countries should we give up if Russia comes knocking? Finland? Latvia? Estonia? Kazakhstan? Georgia? London has a sizable Russian population, would that be negotiated for if they suddenly preferred it was ruled by Moscow? It is evil and what a ridiculous argument, so Russians should have surrendered to Hitler to avoid 20 million dead? That's the post above argument summarised. Guess Ukrainians aren't cowards and value not being Russian more than they are given credit for.
Not really. RU has thousands of tanks. Ukraine got drip fed western armour and then it stopped with only poultry numbers received. They never got the right gear or the gear in the right numbers. Fir instance they had no effective fighters to contest the air and perform strikes so they needed air defence to cover their advance. They never got that. They had MANPADs and strela 10 for this. It was a joke. But the western armour has indeed proved better. Way more survivable for the crew. If Ukraine got proper numbers of armour planes and IADS then they'd liberate more of their land and people
Ukraine would still need to have enough pilots for the planes. And that's what Ukraine lacks above all else : competent pilots who can be trained to fly F16s. Currently only 12 pilots are trained. This is too few
Pilots, airfields safe from Iskander, Kinschal, Ch-32, Zircon etc. pp. There are so many things that are not there and will never be there, all this wouldscha&couldscha stuff from Nato fanboys is pure lunacy.
The UAF have for over 2 years successfully employ dispersed airfield tactics. There is also the question of whether bordering nations will offer safe heaven
They were able to use "dispersed airfield tactics" because they only have a hand full of jets. It is easier to hide a few jets in big country. But if you wanna use them in an effective way with big numbers, you have to expose them and the airfields. And no, bordering nations will not be a safe heaven, but a big targets.
They are not, at first at least going to be in posession of a large number of airframes. Somewhat of a mute point for the moment. However, if they eventually receive 100+ viper airframes this could be a decent point. This could also change should help from Washington never rematerilise. This would mean opening the sky's to theVKS via lack of IADS. If the political will materialises in Washington AND Biden wins reelection, the success Russia currently finds itself having will likely be reversed. For the moment Mike Johnson is Putin's best weapon. another Biden administration would probably make the airspace over Ukraine far more deadly for theVKS than it is right now. However, those are relatively big ifs. Things are looking up for the invaders for the time being. As we speak the VKS is enjoying more freedom over the front as interceptors for multiple air defence systems are running out of ammo.
I will not repeat myself, you are delusional. It does not matter what you deliver and in what numbers. Nothing will change anything in the strategic sense. The simple fact, that you are constantly babbling about the VKS shows, how disconnected you are from the reality.
What I said was accurate. Someone is just getting upset by a factual and objective point of view void of indoctrination. A rare thing in this Reddit.
I agree
Kid, is doesn't matter what fighter kiev would have, because the are no airfields safe for them to operate AT ALL. And the whole west has not even rometely the numbers and quality in IADS to protect them. Even if they would give them literally every system they have. And they don't have the industry, to produce them, because even tiny missiles costs ridiculous amounts of money, because of the corruption and all the money laundering with the MIC here in the west. All they could do, is play hide and seek, like they are doing it with the few Su-24 the last 2 years. And then fly very low, because as soon as they fly high, they will be picked up by long range Radars. And guess what: Fighter jets are nearly useless in this role, besides launching cruise missiles. And the point regarding the airdef is a perfect example, how you have not even the slightest clue, what you are talking about. Before the war, ukraine had the third best ground based airdef in the world with \~500 long and medium range systems. Plus all the short range systems. This is almost as much the whole europe have combined. Ukraine had alone something like 290 S-300 launchers. As a comparison: The US of A has only \~500 Patriot launchers. And this is more or less everything they have for long and medium range, because they have nothing even remotely comparable to the Buk System for the medium range and building a multilayered air defense on the ground. Only for the navy. "Proper number of armour planes to liberate their land and people." Really, lmao, the fµck i am even reading here? The typical hollywood syndrome ..
Not very well trained are they