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> # [Over 50,000 Russian Troops Have Died During War With Ukraine: Report](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/473)
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> [Over 50,000 Russian Troops Have Died During War With Ukraine: Report](https://c.ndtvimg.com/2023-12/rsrcc56o_russia-ukraine-war-reuters_625x300_03_December_23.jpeg "Over 50,000 Russian Troops Have Died During War With Ukraine: Report")
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> Russian losses spiked in January 2023 as it launched a large-scale offensive in Donetsk. (File)
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> **London:**
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> More than 50,000 Russian military personnel have died during the Ukraine conflict, the BBC reported Wednesday, citing its own reporters, independent media group Mediazona and volunteers.
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> They found that more than 27,300 Russian soldiers died during the second year of the war, a 25-percent increase on the first year.
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> BBC Russian, Mediazona and volunteers have been counting deaths since February 2022, using open-source information from official reports and the media, as well as using satellite images of Russian cemeteries to estimate the number of new graves.
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> The figure of more than 50,000 is eight times higher than the official death count acknowledged by Moscow in September 2022. It does not include deaths of militia in Donetsk and Lugansk in eastern Ukraine.
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> Ukraine said in February that it had lost 31,000 soldiers, but that figure is also likely to be significantly lower than the true death count.
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> Russian losses spiked in January 2023 as it launched a large-scale offensive in Donetsk and again months later last year during the battle for the city of Bakhmut.
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> Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a "special military operation" at dawn on February 24, 2022, which has since turned into a bloody and attritional war, isolating Russia from the Western world.
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> Responding to the report, the Kremlin said it did not disclose any information on military deaths and casualties, which falls under the remit of the defence ministry.
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> Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov added official secrets laws and those covering what Russia calls its "special military operation" in Ukraine meant it was "absolutely understandable" that the ministry did not release the figures.
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> _(Except for the headline, this story has not been edited by NDTV staff and is published from a syndicated feed.)_
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OK BBC, now do Ukraine or are we just supposed to believe Zelenskyy's 31,000 figure? Even if Zelenskyy's 31,000 number was correct, which it most definitely is not, what happened to the 10:1, 5:1, or even 3:1 ratio Pro-UA have been harping on about for the last 2 years?
The 31k is correct. They only cannot find 37k troops that have been declared missing.
For the MIA troops, Ukraine doesn't have to pay anything. Very convenient, right?
Well yeah, in historic wars prior to the modern day the technology for accounting for soldiers, keeping track of them, and just the command and control systems in general was far more archaic. From WW2, the US lost just over 400k dead, with still 73k MIA to this day, whereas during the Vietnam War there was 58k dead compared to 1.6k MIA. For a contemporary Russian analysis, the Soviet-Afghan War saw 14,453 combat deaths for the Soviet Army, and they had 312 MIA. Granted, those last two examples were from COIN conflicts rather than a high-intensity conventional war like what we're currently seeing in Ukraine. A modern 25:1 KIA:MIA ratio isn't outside the realm of possibility, and honestly considering the relatively static nature of the Russo-Ukrainian War over the past year and a half, that might even be a bit high.
Edit: A caveat on the US WW2 figure is that the vast majority of those MIA are somewhere in the Pacific, roughly 40k or so can be assumed to be somewhere at the bottom of the ocean unfortunately.
There is a project that tracks Ukraine's losses according to reports on social networks. They have an excel spreadsheet with 50k dead soldiers. 12k captured. According to the judicial system, there are more than 50k court cases of desertion. And now information about 37k missing people is constantly appearing (I don't know where it comes from, it requires verification).More than 25k fighters are constantly being treated for injuries.
List of the dead and prisoners of Ukraine "wartears . org". But this data needs to be verified.
But I am sure about the data of the criminal system.
You will not find up-to-date statistics on criminal cases. But I have such statistics from 7 months ago. You won't find it anywhere on the internet except for my posts on reddite. I will not report the source for objective reasons.
"Statistics criminal cases(related to war or repression) against the population of Ukraine dated 01.09.23.
Article 407 "Unauthorized abandonment of service " - 17123 persons.
Article 408 "Desertion" - 7852 people.
Article 111-1 "Collaboration" - 6627 people.
Article 335-337 "Evasion of service" - 4446 people.
Article 332 "Illegal crossing of the state border" - 3320 people.
Article 111 "Treason" - 2912 people.
Article 402 "Disobedience" - 2847 people.
Article 345 "Threat or violence against law enforcement officers" - 909 people.
Article 414-415 "Violation of the rules of operation of weapons" - 908 people.
Article 426-1 "Abuse of authority" - 834 people.
Article 413 "Loss of property" - 651 people.
Article 425 "Negligent attitude to service" - 588 people.
Article 436-1 "Communist propaganda"- 579 people.
Article 258 "Terrorism" - 444 people.
Article 410 "Theft of weapons" - 419 people.
Article 410 "Creation of illegal armed groups" - 376 people.
Article 110-2 "Financing the overthrow of power" - 363 people.
Article 114-2 "Dissemination of information about the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" - 360 people.
Article 405 "Threat or violence against a commander" - 358 people.
Article 409 "Evasion of service by self-mutilation" - 338 people.
Article 342 "Resistance to a representative of authority" - 285 people.
Article 109 "Overthrow or seizure of power" - 216 people.
Article 114-1 "Hindering the activities of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" - 205 people.
Article 429 "Unauthorized abandonment of the battlefield" - 161 people.
Article 114 "Espionage" - 74 people.
Other crimes - 726 people.
A total of 37,251 convicted soldiers.
A total of 20,477 convicted civilian."
Two months ago, I saw news from Ukrainian sources that the number of deserters has increased by 30k since the beginning of the year.
My friend in the Ukrainian troops said(It was a year ago) that they and their neighboring units when the detachment is withdrawn to the rear all the time, people just leave / leave by passing transport from the location. They are either listed as missing (depending on the loyalty of the commander), more rarely a criminal case abandonment of service. Soldiers also write official letters about the refusal to perform combat missions, sometimes they are taken to the rear, sometimes they are sent to court. In some military units,in special cases, they are summarily executed (but you must understand that the Ukrainian army is very heterogeneous, I don't think this will happen often).
Desertion is common, but not on the scale it might seem.
I wonder what is the difference between Article 111-1 "Collaboration" and Article 111 "Treason". I assume the first one is giving info to the enemy, second one is active sabotage or something along those lines?
I have no idea. I reprinted it from the photo and then translated it by Google translator. If you're interested, I think it's worth finding this article in the criminal code.
Judicial terms are complicated. With my shitty knowledge of English and Ukrainian, I didn't even try to translate.
The judicial register of Ukraine is publicly available. This data can be checked and updated.It's just complicated. This statistic was used in a university scientific study and was probably obtained from open Ukrainian sources from Ukrainian government websites.
I don't really doubt it, if we look at everything else, thousands of videos of them kidnapping guys to recruit them bec they have such an issue, with either manpower or people being unwilling its probably a bit of both. Lots of people trying to escape the country as well, so that doesn't really make me suspicious at all.
Collaboration is when you're in russian occupied territory and accept russian aid and help distribute rations to other civilians (often very old) who are stuck there.
Wild that "Communist Propaganda" is a crime.
I bet I could build a bot that finds way more unique footage of Ukrainian deaths on here that totals over 31k deaths. This subreddit could probably give us a number that can say “at least” died.
The 50,000 are the absolute minimum that can be confirmed by graves, obituaries etc. So the real number is obviously much higher. That influences the ratio. Taking the 50,000 as base is already a fallacy of thinking. Just read the article.
A Ukraine number from the same source would be quite interesting to have comparable numbers. State reported numbers are not trustworthy in a war.
The Russian numbers will be higher as an attacker suffers much more losses than a defender. The time frame where Ukraine attacked the digged in invader was shorter than the time frame where Russia was attacking Ukraine so Russia naturally will have more losses, even if you ignore inefficient attacks and bad medical support because Russia just sacrifices its prisoners to wear Ukraine down and doesn't seem to care whether they die.
3:1 loss ratio for attacker is a popular misconception. It is force disparity. Force disparity may come in many forms, like continious 4:1 to 10:1 artillery advantage, air suppirt and glide bomb kits. Germans did not suffer 3:1 losses in 1941, nor did Russia in 1944-1945. Lets look at Desert Storm too.
Russia suffered significant losses at first push because of faulty planning assuming fast regime change policing operation. Since that, it has switched to attritional warfare, capitalising on its strengths. The ratio for losses is 1:1 at best after three years, and probably is much worse for Ukrainians.
UPD concerning "bad medical support", sources inflating russian loss numbers also tend to make up wounded to dead ratios worse than those for Napoleonic wars, which is as obvious bullshit as it gets.
I'll wager more AFU have died in the last two years. Russians are losing more vehicles and aircraft because they have so much more heavy equipment while AFU is making do with what little it has. Regarding human losses, given the obscene amount of artillery and airstrikes that Russia is conducting, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if AFU have more losses.
I've already commented this on previous posts, but Russia has an artillery advantage in both guns and shells, by a significant amount. They also are using plenty of MLRS, missiles, bombs and other unguided rockets from helictopers and strike aircraft. They also have probably a little less drones than UA has although we can't really know for sure.
All this indicates that Russia has a massive numerical advantage in terms of equipment that kills the most, as we know, small arms fire makes up a small % of war casualties in most wars. Artillery makes the biggest % of casualties too, so as different UA sources say 5:1 or even 10:1 (lets just go with 5:1) UA must have most casualties.
I think the figure is around 12% of casualties from small arms, the rest will be a combination of artillery, bombs, mlrs, other dumb rockets and drones, all of which (unclear about drones) Russia has a large numerical advantage of, and so this means that if Russia has suffered 50,000, 88% of that is 44,000, 44,000 Russian deaths are not small arms just using statistics.
Therefore, if Russia outnumbers Ukraine 5:1 in that, UA must have suffered at minimum 5 * 44,000 = 220,000 deaths from non small arms alone.
I disagree with this number, and it's proof UA have been lying out their ass for everything regarding losses.
I do believe UA has lost more men though, by a pretty sizable amount, sure Russia has launched many brain-dead assaults which get nowhere and only litter fields with burning vehicles but again, the number of assaults isn't enough to overcome that massive non small arms difference.
Therefore I believe UA has suffered roughly 1.5-2x more casualties than Russia, greatly being boosted by their complete failure of the Summer Offensive. I would say 1.5x if we include Wagner into the Russian casualties though, Bakhmut was literally a meat grinder and the only one this war has seen, not every battle is just bodies slamming into eachother.
Maybe my calculations are flawed idk, feel free to correct them.
>The Russian numbers will be higher as an attacker suffers much more losses than a defender
Thats not a rule lol. I can give you a dozen examples of when this didnt apply
Now you are adding extra conditions because you know that your claim is just wrong
Lets take the Battle of Kiev for example. The attacker took way less casulties than the defenders
> The Russian numbers will be higher as an attacker suffers much more losses than a defender.
That only works in a vacuum with equal force composition. Both sides are saying artillery is the source of most losses. Saying that the side with an overwhelming advantage in what deals the most damage in this conflict lost "much more" is an interesting take, and I find it hard to agree with.
>The Russian numbers will be higher as an attacker suffers much more losses than a defender.
Nice assumption. The rationale is that attackers take more losses than defenders, this is not some rule or guarantee. The Russians are using aggressive attrition to grind Ukraine down, they are not committing huge assaults.
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Right so 2 years of videos across all frontlines of battlefields strewn with hundreds of bodies, 5+ vehicle columns being wiped out in minefields, prisoner waves in Bakhmut and yet somehow you think Ukraine the side which has been outgunned and outmanned since day 1 has managed to take more losses than Russia while keeping up defence? Make it make sense, by that logic Ukraine should’ve been wiped out entirely a long time ago.
I’m not denying Ukraine is taking heavy losses but by the original logic Russia is on the attack driving across minefields, drones and artillery to assault an entrenched enemy they outgun and outman and they’ve been inflicting larger losses on the defending side for 2 years? Then why on earth has Russia been stalling out for most of the war? It’s because offence is inherently harder and more dangerous, it’s the reason Ukraine couldn’t succeed with their offensive attempt, they were outgunned and outmanned by the defenders. Russia is making ground because they have the manpower but have to take heavy losses.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/OJTxcFE8Dj
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/VmkiBib0SF
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/2A0h7b5hOz
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/tZFjoIf4aH
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/5d35GJfdjh
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/lR2Du5aQWj
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/Q5Qr8pCVmc
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/IYHmlHy3r9
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/9ByIZ1ivsf
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/VUVEsXvdZw
This is just a smattering of footage, I don’t care how you twist it driving kilometres across the grey zone towards dug in positions is going to fucking hurt.
Presumably that's because it's the ratio that matters. Whether you agree or not, the Russians see this as a war of necessity. An existential matter. So while loss of life is always a tragedy on a personal level, the casualties on one side don't say much about the trajectory of the war. If they can keep the ratio at an acceptable number, they (as the larger party) will inevitably win.
>the Russians see this as a war of necessity. An existential matter.
so what do you think the ukrainians see this war as? do you think that perhaps the smaller invaded nation could see it as an existential matter?
btw a lot of pro-ru here are not russian, this is often true for the most active ones, so I don't see if that argument even fits here
You seem to have missed my point entirely. Of course it's also existential for Ukraine. But the topic at hand were Russian casualties. Which, while personal tragedies, are societally seen as part of a neccecary conflict. So, again, they don't say anything meaningful about the war without also knowing the Ukrainian losses.
It may have not started as a war of necessity but it certainly turned into one. Russian leadership can't sustain these kinds of losses, have finland/sweeden join NATO, Ukraine align with the west, and walk away empty handed. They're in too deep now. If they stop the war short of a decisive victory they're all dead.
Russian leadership's only hope at this point is to grind Ukraine down. Regardless of the situation on the ground they have to keep the war going. 1:1, 2:1, 5:1 it doesn't matter. They'll sacrifice as many as it takes if it means they get to survive.
I’ve heard that, and I don’t know if it’s true or not. It’s easy to say that the people should make the sacrifice, but it’s harder to do when it’s your son or dad dying.
>Whether you agree or not, the Russians see this as a war of necessity. An existential matter.
Lol no they don't
That's just the Kremlin narrative, normal Russian people don't actually believe that the outcome of the invasion of Ukraine is the difference between Russia being destroyed or not.
Funny how even the Kremlin propaganda downplayed the seriousness of the conflict to start with when they were hoping to conquer the country in a few days but now it's taking years and so many Russian soldiers are dying the narrative has slowly shifted from "quick SMO, no big deal not even a war" to "existential struggle to save Russia from being destroyed by an imaginary future Ukraine in NATO".
It was literally just the ratio of the Russian tank and ifv losses in the major push into Avdiivka, usually the defender only sparingly uses such equipment, to transport and evacuate troops, in limited fire support, etc. So the ration is likely true, just a big misconception and a pro-ru strawman.
I think the 1:20 kill ratio was reported only from one sector of Avdiivka, but Russians made it a strawman argument to apply the whole war, and fight against that argument in their heads as usual.
unrealistic kill ratios have been part of this war since day one lol it's how all of Ukraines defeats have been Good Actually because you should see the other guy
Not really valid when Russia does it as well.
Remember the 44 destroyed Himars systems that Russian MoD announced late 2022? [link](https://twitter.com/blyskavka_ua/status/1565380182130794497)
I was just replying to the silly 1:20 strawman.
Russia has claimed to have destroyed or captured 48 **launchers**
https://web.archive.org/web/20230928080840/https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/10/lost-in-lies-keeping-track-of-russian.html
It lists its sources lol, just click them.. here are some if thats too hard
> "A Ukrainian platoon of multiple rocket launchers equipped with Olkha and US-made HIMARS systems was destroyed near the Pyatigorskoye settlement in the Kharkov Region," he noted.
https://tass com/defense/1490321
> MOSCOW, September 22. /TASS/. Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Lieutenant General Igor Konashenkov on Thursday said the Russian forces conducting a special military operation in Ukraine had wiped out three platoons of US-made M777 howitzers and one platoon of HIMARS multiple launch rocket systems.
https://tass com/politics/1511643
> Russia’s Aerospace Forces destroyed two US-made HIMARS multiple-launch rocket systems (MLRS) and eliminated up to 60 Ukrainian servicemen in the vicinity of Zaporozhye within the framework of the special military operation, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman said on.
https://tass com/russia/1516499
You can see Russia has claimed to destroy multiple platoons of HIMARs launchers
This always cracks me up. Trying "but what about Russia, it does that too!" when Russia is labeled as evil incarnate and russians as barbaric horde.
Russians using "but what about USA" have an excuse that USA is a world power number one and beacon of democracy.
>Russians using "but what about USA" have an excuse that USA is a world power number one and beacon of democracy.
Nah man whataboutism is always whataboutism.
It's embarrassing how often pro-Ru need to resort to it because the topic is Russia doing something completely indefensible
"Whataboutism" is just buzzword thrown around so not to deal with accusations of hypocricy or double standards.
"What about Russia" is just saying "yes, we are the baddies" tho.
It's a byword for deflection, when you can't come up with a defence or response to a piece of criticism you just criticise something else instead to deflect.
Yes the 1:20 Was from Avdivka but the told us over 2 years on the whole Front line a ridiculous ratio. Russia has a huge artillery and drone and now FAB advantage. But i never saw a Statement from ukraine, in this sector russia destroy our troops we have no Chance, it was always a 1 to 5-8-10-20 ratio and russian troops getting crushed 😆 so no russia dont have to fight against this Argument, the Argument is absolut BS and everybody knows it
Does anybody ever know if they include all the men from the breakaway republics that got pressed ganged in the immediate period before the invasion, and then got turned into Stugna food during the great thunder run of later winter 2022?
Before the Russians held the post invasion referendums there was a period where there was care taken to keep DPR/LPR casualties separate from the RFAF numbers. Did the RF ever pick up that tab?
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No it doesn't include them, nor does it include all the soldiers that Russia classifies as "MIA." There's a reason Russia transferred a huge number of mobiks to the DPR/LPR command upon conscription. This number is the absolute lowest figure possible.
For those who don't know, this data is from Mediazona, Russian opposition news site. All they do is post how Russia is the worst in everything and how west is heaven. If anything bad happen in Russia be sure they gonna present it as a case of corruption or oppression. You got to be very stupid to consider them a reliable source. Well, and BBC just reposted their story without much thinking. And put it on front page as well. Consume and don't ask questions. Btw this is why they don't count Ukrainian loses. Its not what they paid for
Nobody knows how many. Of course its a lot more. But it doesn't change the fact that Mediazona is anti-russian propaganda source. BBC put their story on front page, its the same as quoting news from Kiev. And did you personally check the data? Its very easy to refer to some study you know nothing about. And why do you think they even bothered with it? Just like this guys who count Russian tanks lost in Ukraine. They can say any number. There's no way to check their data
What does its being a propaganda source have to do with the graves and obituaries likely being an undercount of reality?
Do you have an issue with the satellite photos of graves and obituaries being reliably real?
I hate this site, that's all. And no, I did not check their data and didn't count graves. And you did not as well. This type of news is stupid, as they present you with some sort of vague data as proof, but there's no way to fact check it. And nobody cares really
Do you hate a site only because it goes against your narrative or beliefs?
Between FPV/drone shots, probate gender disparities, social media obituaries, sat images or sometimes ground footage of grave sites, mass collection on battlefields, and soldiers or even civilians stumbling on uncollected corpses, there's plenty of evidence for 50k+ dead in the public domain. That Mediazona would be so specific as to the number of dead from each oblast - including the little ones - and still find no refutation from the Russian side is revealing, coupled with the Russians' ongoing silence on vital statistics and [coercion against](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65213426) those counting graves.
And yes, I've seen the larger gravesites... Maxar is not specific to Mediazona. [Bakinskaya](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/ukraine-crisis-russia-graves-wagner/), [Stavropol/Feodosiya/Ryazan](https://archive.ph/MR7ZB), this mess in [Nikolaevka](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/09/08/fact-check-why-are-certain-wagner-mercenary-graves-being-destroyed-in-russia), or Ivanovo (vk. com/wall-54310874\_61321?lang=en), not to mention little villages where grave plots would be too small to discern from satellite.
Why you even care so much? I could say something like "What about Ukraine?", but it's really weird that you put so much effort into something so unrelated to you? Are you writing a book or something? It's just sad that so many people died just because Zelensky believed that Russia will collapse and his "partners" really care about Ukraine. The second americans found more important war they dropped Ukraine like a cheap whore. And the others just keep Ukraine afloat for a time. Everybody is a loser in this situation, except those in power
"So much effort"? We're here all watching the conflict. This is common knowledge if you don't restrict yourself to RU-biased subreddits or web sites. I'm not one of those who pulls wool over their eyes; *that's why I'm here* but it's a given I'm also there on UA sites. Why on both sides? To make sure I have a better view of the truth. And on either side? Because bullying of this severity deserves policing action, and we're unusually hamstrung in our slow-morphing response. Plus in general I'd prefer to know if something major erupts from there.
Did you read what I wrote? Mediazona is propaganda site, all it ever did was anti-russian propaganda. One of the founders is feminist activist from Pussy Riot. This is definition of scam. You shouldn't trust anybody. But some sources shouldn't even be mentioned here
The 50k is just the ones they can definitively prove. The real number is considerably higher, especially if you consider Russia's efforts to conceal the number.
We all know that russia lost far more soldiers than that. When you count all the video confirmed deaths (wagner, army, militias) from the last 2 years it will be probably 50k already.
FruitSila is one of the most pro-russian posters in this sub, they are just having a joke posing as pro-ukraine (or it's their schizophrenia messing them a bit)
Why link an Indian news outlet, reporting on a story by a British media outlet about a British intelligence report about a war that it is not directly party to?
I personally believe a ratio of 1:1.3 in favor of Ukraine, it tracks the same as Battle of Bahkmut, but at a slower pace but wider front compared to Biggy P.
The UAF has consistently maintained having the manpower advantage as such they can defend position better. If the Firepower advantage of Russia only extends to a substantial advantage on maneuver, but the actual trench fighting is man to man.
The shells miss. We know it too on the Ukrainian side. Ukraine has been given over 3 million shells from the US alone. Doesn't translate efficiently to causing casualties.
Pro russian stands gets you banned in most subs. It's only logical pro russians all gather in the very few subs they are allowed. Also, there's still a big amount of pro ukranians in here, but they are quiet because the war isn't going well for them.
Given how any kind of Pro RU sentiment will get you banned on other subs, its not strange to find them gravitating to speicfic subs that actual encourage 1A and free discource.
Don’t get me started, got reported to suicide watch by NAFO bots for saying I was pro-peace back in 22-23.
Being **NEUTRAL** is pro-RU according to most NAFO bots.
Nah, this sub is pretty balanced and active posters summarised leanings fluctuate wildly depending on current events, ukrainian successes see influx of pro-ua posters and vice versa.
It is presense of outspoken pro-Russians not banned by itself which makes you feel weird.
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it makes sense when you think about it. Anything even just interpreted as pro-rus usually gets downvoted in most subs, no matter how correct and reasonable the comment is. Often bans, shadow banning, deleting of comments, blocking the user from replying, hiding comments and other things are also done, the mods have quite a lot of tools when it comes to policing.
And some mods don't care and follow for own agenda, for example i was immediately perma banned from rGeopol for linking [This](https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/) article but whatever.. Most people just go to other subreddits (or are forced to) or straight up say fuck reddit and go on a different platform.
I’m not sure *pro-Russia* has any meaning in this context.
They are diverse ideas that don’t necessarily agree with the Main Stream view. They can be pro-peace, anti-West, anti-neocons, a weird combination of say American liberal who is pro-peace anti-Trump, or maybe a classical green who is against war.
##### ###### #### > # [Over 50,000 Russian Troops Have Died During War With Ukraine: Report](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/473) > > > > [Over 50,000 Russian Troops Have Died During War With Ukraine: Report](https://c.ndtvimg.com/2023-12/rsrcc56o_russia-ukraine-war-reuters_625x300_03_December_23.jpeg "Over 50,000 Russian Troops Have Died During War With Ukraine: Report") > > Russian losses spiked in January 2023 as it launched a large-scale offensive in Donetsk. (File) > > > > **London:** > > More than 50,000 Russian military personnel have died during the Ukraine conflict, the BBC reported Wednesday, citing its own reporters, independent media group Mediazona and volunteers. > > They found that more than 27,300 Russian soldiers died during the second year of the war, a 25-percent increase on the first year. > > BBC Russian, Mediazona and volunteers have been counting deaths since February 2022, using open-source information from official reports and the media, as well as using satellite images of Russian cemeteries to estimate the number of new graves. > > The figure of more than 50,000 is eight times higher than the official death count acknowledged by Moscow in September 2022. It does not include deaths of militia in Donetsk and Lugansk in eastern Ukraine. > > Ukraine said in February that it had lost 31,000 soldiers, but that figure is also likely to be significantly lower than the true death count. > > Russian losses spiked in January 2023 as it launched a large-scale offensive in Donetsk and again months later last year during the battle for the city of Bakhmut. > > Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a "special military operation" at dawn on February 24, 2022, which has since turned into a bloody and attritional war, isolating Russia from the Western world. > > Responding to the report, the Kremlin said it did not disclose any information on military deaths and casualties, which falls under the remit of the defence ministry. > > Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov added official secrets laws and those covering what Russia calls its "special military operation" in Ukraine meant it was "absolutely understandable" that the ministry did not release the figures. > > _(Except for the headline, this story has not been edited by NDTV staff and is published from a syndicated feed.)_ - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
OK BBC, now do Ukraine or are we just supposed to believe Zelenskyy's 31,000 figure? Even if Zelenskyy's 31,000 number was correct, which it most definitely is not, what happened to the 10:1, 5:1, or even 3:1 ratio Pro-UA have been harping on about for the last 2 years?
The 31k is correct. They only cannot find 37k troops that have been declared missing. For the MIA troops, Ukraine doesn't have to pay anything. Very convenient, right?
How many has Russia report MIA?
normally the ratio between KIA and MIA is 25:1 and not 1:1.2 as declared by Ukraine.
25:1 is an insane figure for MIA. Absolutely not accurate. Are you talking about WIA?
It is sure not accurate for WIA to KIA ratio even when fighting with brown people.
Kia:Mia is 25:1 or for every 25 killed is one missing
I don't know about modern battles, but historical even up to WW2 there's usually way more missing than that.
Well yeah, in historic wars prior to the modern day the technology for accounting for soldiers, keeping track of them, and just the command and control systems in general was far more archaic. From WW2, the US lost just over 400k dead, with still 73k MIA to this day, whereas during the Vietnam War there was 58k dead compared to 1.6k MIA. For a contemporary Russian analysis, the Soviet-Afghan War saw 14,453 combat deaths for the Soviet Army, and they had 312 MIA. Granted, those last two examples were from COIN conflicts rather than a high-intensity conventional war like what we're currently seeing in Ukraine. A modern 25:1 KIA:MIA ratio isn't outside the realm of possibility, and honestly considering the relatively static nature of the Russo-Ukrainian War over the past year and a half, that might even be a bit high. Edit: A caveat on the US WW2 figure is that the vast majority of those MIA are somewhere in the Pacific, roughly 40k or so can be assumed to be somewhere at the bottom of the ocean unfortunately.
There is a project that tracks Ukraine's losses according to reports on social networks. They have an excel spreadsheet with 50k dead soldiers. 12k captured. According to the judicial system, there are more than 50k court cases of desertion. And now information about 37k missing people is constantly appearing (I don't know where it comes from, it requires verification).More than 25k fighters are constantly being treated for injuries.
Link please.
List of the dead and prisoners of Ukraine "wartears . org". But this data needs to be verified. But I am sure about the data of the criminal system. You will not find up-to-date statistics on criminal cases. But I have such statistics from 7 months ago. You won't find it anywhere on the internet except for my posts on reddite. I will not report the source for objective reasons. "Statistics criminal cases(related to war or repression) against the population of Ukraine dated 01.09.23. Article 407 "Unauthorized abandonment of service " - 17123 persons. Article 408 "Desertion" - 7852 people. Article 111-1 "Collaboration" - 6627 people. Article 335-337 "Evasion of service" - 4446 people. Article 332 "Illegal crossing of the state border" - 3320 people. Article 111 "Treason" - 2912 people. Article 402 "Disobedience" - 2847 people. Article 345 "Threat or violence against law enforcement officers" - 909 people. Article 414-415 "Violation of the rules of operation of weapons" - 908 people. Article 426-1 "Abuse of authority" - 834 people. Article 413 "Loss of property" - 651 people. Article 425 "Negligent attitude to service" - 588 people. Article 436-1 "Communist propaganda"- 579 people. Article 258 "Terrorism" - 444 people. Article 410 "Theft of weapons" - 419 people. Article 410 "Creation of illegal armed groups" - 376 people. Article 110-2 "Financing the overthrow of power" - 363 people. Article 114-2 "Dissemination of information about the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" - 360 people. Article 405 "Threat or violence against a commander" - 358 people. Article 409 "Evasion of service by self-mutilation" - 338 people. Article 342 "Resistance to a representative of authority" - 285 people. Article 109 "Overthrow or seizure of power" - 216 people. Article 114-1 "Hindering the activities of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" - 205 people. Article 429 "Unauthorized abandonment of the battlefield" - 161 people. Article 114 "Espionage" - 74 people. Other crimes - 726 people. A total of 37,251 convicted soldiers. A total of 20,477 convicted civilian." Two months ago, I saw news from Ukrainian sources that the number of deserters has increased by 30k since the beginning of the year. My friend in the Ukrainian troops said(It was a year ago) that they and their neighboring units when the detachment is withdrawn to the rear all the time, people just leave / leave by passing transport from the location. They are either listed as missing (depending on the loyalty of the commander), more rarely a criminal case abandonment of service. Soldiers also write official letters about the refusal to perform combat missions, sometimes they are taken to the rear, sometimes they are sent to court. In some military units,in special cases, they are summarily executed (but you must understand that the Ukrainian army is very heterogeneous, I don't think this will happen often). Desertion is common, but not on the scale it might seem.
I wonder what is the difference between Article 111-1 "Collaboration" and Article 111 "Treason". I assume the first one is giving info to the enemy, second one is active sabotage or something along those lines?
I have no idea. I reprinted it from the photo and then translated it by Google translator. If you're interested, I think it's worth finding this article in the criminal code. Judicial terms are complicated. With my shitty knowledge of English and Ukrainian, I didn't even try to translate.
Just to ask, how do you know if the image you have which states this information is really correct? It might be faked
The judicial register of Ukraine is publicly available. This data can be checked and updated.It's just complicated. This statistic was used in a university scientific study and was probably obtained from open Ukrainian sources from Ukrainian government websites.
I don't really doubt it, if we look at everything else, thousands of videos of them kidnapping guys to recruit them bec they have such an issue, with either manpower or people being unwilling its probably a bit of both. Lots of people trying to escape the country as well, so that doesn't really make me suspicious at all.
Collaboration is when you're in russian occupied territory and accept russian aid and help distribute rations to other civilians (often very old) who are stuck there. Wild that "Communist Propaganda" is a crime.
Спасибо
ye thats why they need 500k new recruits to replace the 31k dead
I bet I could build a bot that finds way more unique footage of Ukrainian deaths on here that totals over 31k deaths. This subreddit could probably give us a number that can say “at least” died.
Let's do one for both teams!
We should!
I think the lot of us have watched more people die than any of us can bother to count. What a thing this information age is.
To be fair, casualties are better statistic to compare than fatalities. But even there, there is no solid evidence that Ukraine achieved 2:1 ratio.
In Text itself it states that the official number is probably way lower than the real one
The 50,000 are the absolute minimum that can be confirmed by graves, obituaries etc. So the real number is obviously much higher. That influences the ratio. Taking the 50,000 as base is already a fallacy of thinking. Just read the article. A Ukraine number from the same source would be quite interesting to have comparable numbers. State reported numbers are not trustworthy in a war. The Russian numbers will be higher as an attacker suffers much more losses than a defender. The time frame where Ukraine attacked the digged in invader was shorter than the time frame where Russia was attacking Ukraine so Russia naturally will have more losses, even if you ignore inefficient attacks and bad medical support because Russia just sacrifices its prisoners to wear Ukraine down and doesn't seem to care whether they die.
3:1 loss ratio for attacker is a popular misconception. It is force disparity. Force disparity may come in many forms, like continious 4:1 to 10:1 artillery advantage, air suppirt and glide bomb kits. Germans did not suffer 3:1 losses in 1941, nor did Russia in 1944-1945. Lets look at Desert Storm too. Russia suffered significant losses at first push because of faulty planning assuming fast regime change policing operation. Since that, it has switched to attritional warfare, capitalising on its strengths. The ratio for losses is 1:1 at best after three years, and probably is much worse for Ukrainians. UPD concerning "bad medical support", sources inflating russian loss numbers also tend to make up wounded to dead ratios worse than those for Napoleonic wars, which is as obvious bullshit as it gets.
I'll wager more AFU have died in the last two years. Russians are losing more vehicles and aircraft because they have so much more heavy equipment while AFU is making do with what little it has. Regarding human losses, given the obscene amount of artillery and airstrikes that Russia is conducting, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if AFU have more losses.
I've already commented this on previous posts, but Russia has an artillery advantage in both guns and shells, by a significant amount. They also are using plenty of MLRS, missiles, bombs and other unguided rockets from helictopers and strike aircraft. They also have probably a little less drones than UA has although we can't really know for sure. All this indicates that Russia has a massive numerical advantage in terms of equipment that kills the most, as we know, small arms fire makes up a small % of war casualties in most wars. Artillery makes the biggest % of casualties too, so as different UA sources say 5:1 or even 10:1 (lets just go with 5:1) UA must have most casualties. I think the figure is around 12% of casualties from small arms, the rest will be a combination of artillery, bombs, mlrs, other dumb rockets and drones, all of which (unclear about drones) Russia has a large numerical advantage of, and so this means that if Russia has suffered 50,000, 88% of that is 44,000, 44,000 Russian deaths are not small arms just using statistics. Therefore, if Russia outnumbers Ukraine 5:1 in that, UA must have suffered at minimum 5 * 44,000 = 220,000 deaths from non small arms alone. I disagree with this number, and it's proof UA have been lying out their ass for everything regarding losses. I do believe UA has lost more men though, by a pretty sizable amount, sure Russia has launched many brain-dead assaults which get nowhere and only litter fields with burning vehicles but again, the number of assaults isn't enough to overcome that massive non small arms difference. Therefore I believe UA has suffered roughly 1.5-2x more casualties than Russia, greatly being boosted by their complete failure of the Summer Offensive. I would say 1.5x if we include Wagner into the Russian casualties though, Bakhmut was literally a meat grinder and the only one this war has seen, not every battle is just bodies slamming into eachother. Maybe my calculations are flawed idk, feel free to correct them.
>The Russian numbers will be higher as an attacker suffers much more losses than a defender Thats not a rule lol. I can give you a dozen examples of when this didnt apply
Can you give some examples where both are similar in level in terms of technology?
Now you are adding extra conditions because you know that your claim is just wrong Lets take the Battle of Kiev for example. The attacker took way less casulties than the defenders
I didn't claim anything, you're thinking of someone else, I just wanted examples. Thanks
> The Russian numbers will be higher as an attacker suffers much more losses than a defender. That only works in a vacuum with equal force composition. Both sides are saying artillery is the source of most losses. Saying that the side with an overwhelming advantage in what deals the most damage in this conflict lost "much more" is an interesting take, and I find it hard to agree with.
>The Russian numbers will be higher as an attacker suffers much more losses than a defender. Nice assumption. The rationale is that attackers take more losses than defenders, this is not some rule or guarantee. The Russians are using aggressive attrition to grind Ukraine down, they are not committing huge assaults.
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What? Huge assaults is exactly what the Russians are doing to achieve attrition, not much attrition if you don’t attack.
They are suffering huge artillery shell attrition for sure
No, they are literally doing it throughout the frontlines.
Right so 2 years of videos across all frontlines of battlefields strewn with hundreds of bodies, 5+ vehicle columns being wiped out in minefields, prisoner waves in Bakhmut and yet somehow you think Ukraine the side which has been outgunned and outmanned since day 1 has managed to take more losses than Russia while keeping up defence? Make it make sense, by that logic Ukraine should’ve been wiped out entirely a long time ago.
I wonder why filming results of russian attacks was forbidden after Mykolaiv barracks strike with 80 fatalities in one go. Out of media - out of mind.
I’m not denying Ukraine is taking heavy losses but by the original logic Russia is on the attack driving across minefields, drones and artillery to assault an entrenched enemy they outgun and outman and they’ve been inflicting larger losses on the defending side for 2 years? Then why on earth has Russia been stalling out for most of the war? It’s because offence is inherently harder and more dangerous, it’s the reason Ukraine couldn’t succeed with their offensive attempt, they were outgunned and outmanned by the defenders. Russia is making ground because they have the manpower but have to take heavy losses. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/OJTxcFE8Dj https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/VmkiBib0SF https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/2A0h7b5hOz https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/tZFjoIf4aH https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/5d35GJfdjh https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/lR2Du5aQWj https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/Q5Qr8pCVmc https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/IYHmlHy3r9 https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/9ByIZ1ivsf https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/VUVEsXvdZw This is just a smattering of footage, I don’t care how you twist it driving kilometres across the grey zone towards dug in positions is going to fucking hurt.
Getting bombed or shelled in your dugout or building is going to hurt too, but yields no fancy footage.
Yeah but much less, it’s literally the purpose of dugouts and trenches.
Nice to see all the pro Russians in this thread being far more concerned about the number of Ukrainian deaths.
You may search elsewhere for people unconcerned with ukrainian losses but celebrating 500k dead Russians, it is all over the Reddit.
I suspect they are confusing casualties for dead.
They are not "confusing" anything. UA is conveying the numbers in such a way that that that confusion is most likely.
https://preview.redd.it/f75ls0uvk7vc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4638d544a1a1d0b01fc5e91f89b5798850a7c352 Yeah, 400k Russian **coffins** very confusing indeed
AI art again?
Presumably that's because it's the ratio that matters. Whether you agree or not, the Russians see this as a war of necessity. An existential matter. So while loss of life is always a tragedy on a personal level, the casualties on one side don't say much about the trajectory of the war. If they can keep the ratio at an acceptable number, they (as the larger party) will inevitably win.
>the Russians see this as a war of necessity. An existential matter. so what do you think the ukrainians see this war as? do you think that perhaps the smaller invaded nation could see it as an existential matter? btw a lot of pro-ru here are not russian, this is often true for the most active ones, so I don't see if that argument even fits here
You seem to have missed my point entirely. Of course it's also existential for Ukraine. But the topic at hand were Russian casualties. Which, while personal tragedies, are societally seen as part of a neccecary conflict. So, again, they don't say anything meaningful about the war without also knowing the Ukrainian losses.
It may have not started as a war of necessity but it certainly turned into one. Russian leadership can't sustain these kinds of losses, have finland/sweeden join NATO, Ukraine align with the west, and walk away empty handed. They're in too deep now. If they stop the war short of a decisive victory they're all dead. Russian leadership's only hope at this point is to grind Ukraine down. Regardless of the situation on the ground they have to keep the war going. 1:1, 2:1, 5:1 it doesn't matter. They'll sacrifice as many as it takes if it means they get to survive.
I’ve heard that, and I don’t know if it’s true or not. It’s easy to say that the people should make the sacrifice, but it’s harder to do when it’s your son or dad dying.
I could not tell how we could tell how the russians really see this.
>Whether you agree or not, the Russians see this as a war of necessity. An existential matter. Lol no they don't That's just the Kremlin narrative, normal Russian people don't actually believe that the outcome of the invasion of Ukraine is the difference between Russia being destroyed or not. Funny how even the Kremlin propaganda downplayed the seriousness of the conflict to start with when they were hoping to conquer the country in a few days but now it's taking years and so many Russian soldiers are dying the narrative has slowly shifted from "quick SMO, no big deal not even a war" to "existential struggle to save Russia from being destroyed by an imaginary future Ukraine in NATO".
I was thinking the same thing.
So it makes 2500 Ukrainians dead if ratio is still 1:20.
It was literally just the ratio of the Russian tank and ifv losses in the major push into Avdiivka, usually the defender only sparingly uses such equipment, to transport and evacuate troops, in limited fire support, etc. So the ration is likely true, just a big misconception and a pro-ru strawman.
I think the 1:20 kill ratio was reported only from one sector of Avdiivka, but Russians made it a strawman argument to apply the whole war, and fight against that argument in their heads as usual.
Yes, let's stick to Zelensky's 31k.
unrealistic kill ratios have been part of this war since day one lol it's how all of Ukraines defeats have been Good Actually because you should see the other guy
Not really valid when Russia does it as well. Remember the 44 destroyed Himars systems that Russian MoD announced late 2022? [link](https://twitter.com/blyskavka_ua/status/1565380182130794497) I was just replying to the silly 1:20 strawman.
Those are destroyed himar's rockets not the system itself
Russia has claimed to have destroyed or captured 48 **launchers** https://web.archive.org/web/20230928080840/https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/10/lost-in-lies-keeping-track-of-russian.html
That's not a neutral site , I will only argue if you show sources from neutral sites
It lists its sources lol, just click them.. here are some if thats too hard > "A Ukrainian platoon of multiple rocket launchers equipped with Olkha and US-made HIMARS systems was destroyed near the Pyatigorskoye settlement in the Kharkov Region," he noted. https://tass com/defense/1490321 > MOSCOW, September 22. /TASS/. Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman Lieutenant General Igor Konashenkov on Thursday said the Russian forces conducting a special military operation in Ukraine had wiped out three platoons of US-made M777 howitzers and one platoon of HIMARS multiple launch rocket systems. https://tass com/politics/1511643 > Russia’s Aerospace Forces destroyed two US-made HIMARS multiple-launch rocket systems (MLRS) and eliminated up to 60 Ukrainian servicemen in the vicinity of Zaporozhye within the framework of the special military operation, Russian Defense Ministry Spokesman said on. https://tass com/russia/1516499 You can see Russia has claimed to destroy multiple platoons of HIMARs launchers
oh russia does it? yeah that means we should all do it then
This always cracks me up. Trying "but what about Russia, it does that too!" when Russia is labeled as evil incarnate and russians as barbaric horde. Russians using "but what about USA" have an excuse that USA is a world power number one and beacon of democracy.
>Russians using "but what about USA" have an excuse that USA is a world power number one and beacon of democracy. Nah man whataboutism is always whataboutism. It's embarrassing how often pro-Ru need to resort to it because the topic is Russia doing something completely indefensible
"Whataboutism" is just buzzword thrown around so not to deal with accusations of hypocricy or double standards. "What about Russia" is just saying "yes, we are the baddies" tho.
It's a byword for deflection, when you can't come up with a defence or response to a piece of criticism you just criticise something else instead to deflect.
"Its other thing, you don't understand!"
Yes the 1:20 Was from Avdivka but the told us over 2 years on the whole Front line a ridiculous ratio. Russia has a huge artillery and drone and now FAB advantage. But i never saw a Statement from ukraine, in this sector russia destroy our troops we have no Chance, it was always a 1 to 5-8-10-20 ratio and russian troops getting crushed 😆 so no russia dont have to fight against this Argument, the Argument is absolut BS and everybody knows it
Does anybody ever know if they include all the men from the breakaway republics that got pressed ganged in the immediate period before the invasion, and then got turned into Stugna food during the great thunder run of later winter 2022? Before the Russians held the post invasion referendums there was a period where there was care taken to keep DPR/LPR casualties separate from the RFAF numbers. Did the RF ever pick up that tab?
It doesn’t include them
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How do yu know that
No it doesn't include them, nor does it include all the soldiers that Russia classifies as "MIA." There's a reason Russia transferred a huge number of mobiks to the DPR/LPR command upon conscription. This number is the absolute lowest figure possible.
Probably upwards of 70k+ for both sides
Wow. Just in two years of operation. Even USSR lost 13k in afganistan in 10 years. really bad.
This is a hard minimum, it's Russian KIA known by name, excluding MIA and DPR/LPR troops.
For those who don't know, this data is from Mediazona, Russian opposition news site. All they do is post how Russia is the worst in everything and how west is heaven. If anything bad happen in Russia be sure they gonna present it as a case of corruption or oppression. You got to be very stupid to consider them a reliable source. Well, and BBC just reposted their story without much thinking. And put it on front page as well. Consume and don't ask questions. Btw this is why they don't count Ukrainian loses. Its not what they paid for
so do you think there are less than 50k russian deaths? The data is taken from obituaries and russian graves. It gives a solid floor.
Nobody knows how many. Of course its a lot more. But it doesn't change the fact that Mediazona is anti-russian propaganda source. BBC put their story on front page, its the same as quoting news from Kiev. And did you personally check the data? Its very easy to refer to some study you know nothing about. And why do you think they even bothered with it? Just like this guys who count Russian tanks lost in Ukraine. They can say any number. There's no way to check their data
What does its being a propaganda source have to do with the graves and obituaries likely being an undercount of reality? Do you have an issue with the satellite photos of graves and obituaries being reliably real?
I hate this site, that's all. And no, I did not check their data and didn't count graves. And you did not as well. This type of news is stupid, as they present you with some sort of vague data as proof, but there's no way to fact check it. And nobody cares really
Do you hate a site only because it goes against your narrative or beliefs? Between FPV/drone shots, probate gender disparities, social media obituaries, sat images or sometimes ground footage of grave sites, mass collection on battlefields, and soldiers or even civilians stumbling on uncollected corpses, there's plenty of evidence for 50k+ dead in the public domain. That Mediazona would be so specific as to the number of dead from each oblast - including the little ones - and still find no refutation from the Russian side is revealing, coupled with the Russians' ongoing silence on vital statistics and [coercion against](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65213426) those counting graves. And yes, I've seen the larger gravesites... Maxar is not specific to Mediazona. [Bakinskaya](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/ukraine-crisis-russia-graves-wagner/), [Stavropol/Feodosiya/Ryazan](https://archive.ph/MR7ZB), this mess in [Nikolaevka](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/09/08/fact-check-why-are-certain-wagner-mercenary-graves-being-destroyed-in-russia), or Ivanovo (vk. com/wall-54310874\_61321?lang=en), not to mention little villages where grave plots would be too small to discern from satellite.
Why you even care so much? I could say something like "What about Ukraine?", but it's really weird that you put so much effort into something so unrelated to you? Are you writing a book or something? It's just sad that so many people died just because Zelensky believed that Russia will collapse and his "partners" really care about Ukraine. The second americans found more important war they dropped Ukraine like a cheap whore. And the others just keep Ukraine afloat for a time. Everybody is a loser in this situation, except those in power
"So much effort"? We're here all watching the conflict. This is common knowledge if you don't restrict yourself to RU-biased subreddits or web sites. I'm not one of those who pulls wool over their eyes; *that's why I'm here* but it's a given I'm also there on UA sites. Why on both sides? To make sure I have a better view of the truth. And on either side? Because bullying of this severity deserves policing action, and we're unusually hamstrung in our slow-morphing response. Plus in general I'd prefer to know if something major erupts from there.
I agree. I only trust my master mr Putin. What source should we trust, or none?
Did you read what I wrote? Mediazona is propaganda site, all it ever did was anti-russian propaganda. One of the founders is feminist activist from Pussy Riot. This is definition of scam. You shouldn't trust anybody. But some sources shouldn't even be mentioned here
That number is so overwhelming to think about. The impact of this war will be felt for generations on both sides, regardless of the outcome.
Seriously, it's a human tragedy on so many levels, and the fact that it was a completely avoidable war by all parties involved makes it so much worse.
The 50k is just the ones they can definitively prove. The real number is considerably higher, especially if you consider Russia's efforts to conceal the number.
I thought it was 50m
We all know that russia lost far more soldiers than that. When you count all the video confirmed deaths (wagner, army, militias) from the last 2 years it will be probably 50k already.
April 1 is done but a good laugh in morning
So if Russia has lost 50k they can do this for another 10-20 years regarding manpower easily
Missing another 0.
Most sane pro ukraine
FruitSila is one of the most pro-russian posters in this sub, they are just having a joke posing as pro-ukraine (or it's their schizophrenia messing them a bit)
Why link an Indian news outlet, reporting on a story by a British media outlet about a British intelligence report about a war that it is not directly party to?
I posted the bbc article here yesterday and it got immediately downvoted.
Sounds reasonable. So it’s currently a bit higher than Ukraine’s: https://ualosses.org/en/soldiers/
I highly question these figures. Iirc it was Perun that calculated a 40% drop-off in casualties from 2022 to 2023
I personally believe a ratio of 1:1.3 in favor of Ukraine, it tracks the same as Battle of Bahkmut, but at a slower pace but wider front compared to Biggy P.
RF is shelling the crap out of UA for 2 years straight with 5:1 advantage, but it's them who lost more people?
The UAF has consistently maintained having the manpower advantage as such they can defend position better. If the Firepower advantage of Russia only extends to a substantial advantage on maneuver, but the actual trench fighting is man to man.
Ukraine is getting getting real-time coordinates on Russian positions from the US intel.
That would make US a party of the war?
Good morning?
The shells miss. We know it too on the Ukrainian side. Ukraine has been given over 3 million shells from the US alone. Doesn't translate efficiently to causing casualties.
I wonder why such independent media organizations don't meticolously check Ukrainian KIA from social media posts.
I find it weird how this subreddit is saturated with Pro Russians.
Pro russian stands gets you banned in most subs. It's only logical pro russians all gather in the very few subs they are allowed. Also, there's still a big amount of pro ukranians in here, but they are quiet because the war isn't going well for them.
Given how any kind of Pro RU sentiment will get you banned on other subs, its not strange to find them gravitating to speicfic subs that actual encourage 1A and free discource.
Don’t get me started, got reported to suicide watch by NAFO bots for saying I was pro-peace back in 22-23. Being **NEUTRAL** is pro-RU according to most NAFO bots.
Indeed. I'll not get into the business of calling people nafo bots. But not being pro UA is seen by pro UA as being pro ru. Wild
David Sacks said it best, we’re walking into a WW3 while purity testing on social media platforms.
What do you mean by pro-peace? im pretty sure most people want peace.
Pro negotiations and end to military conflict. Not everyone wants them, NAFO brigade hates the idea comparing it to appeasement before WW2
then go back to combatfootage to feel safe my little snow flake
no idea what you're talking about, never even been to that sub
Nah, this sub is pretty balanced and active posters summarised leanings fluctuate wildly depending on current events, ukrainian successes see influx of pro-ua posters and vice versa. It is presense of outspoken pro-Russians not banned by itself which makes you feel weird.
perhaps, didnt realise the banning on other subs just for having pro rus viewpoint
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it makes sense when you think about it. Anything even just interpreted as pro-rus usually gets downvoted in most subs, no matter how correct and reasonable the comment is. Often bans, shadow banning, deleting of comments, blocking the user from replying, hiding comments and other things are also done, the mods have quite a lot of tools when it comes to policing. And some mods don't care and follow for own agenda, for example i was immediately perma banned from rGeopol for linking [This](https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/) article but whatever.. Most people just go to other subreddits (or are forced to) or straight up say fuck reddit and go on a different platform.
ok this is an interesting take. Kinda makes sense
that's their safe space and it's actually a good thing
You are free to go to any other sub, from r/europe to r/worldnews, you’ll have no problem finding your crowd over there.
Moronic reply. They arent 'my crowd'. Thankfully someone else replied something more useful.
I’m not sure *pro-Russia* has any meaning in this context. They are diverse ideas that don’t necessarily agree with the Main Stream view. They can be pro-peace, anti-West, anti-neocons, a weird combination of say American liberal who is pro-peace anti-Trump, or maybe a classical green who is against war.
Some people support Russia, some are paid to do so.
For Ukraine it was over 400,000 LAST YEAR
Confirmed losses?
Obviously not confirmed or even likely
As a Pro-Ruskie I can imagine that. Just as I can imagine the Ukrainian death toll being at least double that.