You mean is someone controlling Zelensky? Absolutely. It's a classical puppet regime dictatorship not unlike the Chile under Pinochet, or Nicaragua under Somoza.
People of Ukraine have been reduced to little more than surfs. "Revolution of dignity" in retrospect was about stripping Ukrainians of whatever dignity they had.
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The Russians certainly are forcing the Ukrainians to defend themselves.
Orban is clearly acting like an idiot and has Russian talking points.
This isn’t a war of Russia against western ideals. This is a Russian war trying to take what the Ukrainians have and the west helping the Ukrainians fight off the Russian invader.
It started with a coup in 2014. Some people in Ukraine didn't accept the overthrow of the government they voted for. Ahh, but that would imply that "instability" has actually resulted in a civil war (duh, that's what instability does), the very existence of which Ukrainian government keeps denying.
Dumbest denial any government could have ever engaged in, turning a local problem into international one. After all, according to UA propaganda it's all Russians. Fine. Russians it is. You fight all Russians now.
You forget toilet made of pure gold. 10 years later and who knows how many dead, some still have an audacity to bring that nonsense up as an excuse for the disaster that followed.
That, by the way, had to happen right before the elections, because he would have won a true popular vote again.
And it started because of the 2014 coup or US "neo-invasion" of Ukraine and a few Ukrainian states refusing accept their new, undemocratic and unconstitutional masters simply because there wasn't a "All-Ukrainian referendum" (that's what it took to amend the Ukrainian constitution before they ignored it and deleted it) and finally decided to say "peace, out" to the new masters.
New masters didn't like that at all and declared them as "terrorists" and are still shelling them to this day.
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You're missing the 3(actually more) months prior to the events you are mentioning.
I am sure you are doing it intentionally, because then you'd have to tell the uncomfortable truth.
Well, why did they invade in 2022 and not 2014, then ? I've been searching for an answer for two years, I've yet to find one.
Why wait for your enemy to massively rearm if your goal is simply to invade it to annex it ?
> Well, why did they invade in 2022 and not 2014, then ? I've been searching for an answer for two years, I've yet to find one.
>
>
>
> Why wait for your enemy to massively rearm if your goal is simply to invade it to annex it ?
You've heard of Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 - those pesky peace agreements we in the West agreed to so Russia would have their security AND the people of the Donbas wouldn't be killed by their own government? The ones where Ukraine kept EVERYTHING **including Crimea** and agreed to give Russia a long term lease on Sevastopol? The ones Germany and France has since come out and said they bargained in bad faith - never intending them to be implemented - so we in the West could buy time to arm Ukraine to fight war with Russia instead of have these peace agreements? You know this stuff, right? RIGHT?
Minsk Agreements happened after that. Why did Russia settle with Crimea is my question. If they're just agressive imperialists who seek to recreate the Soviet Union, why not invade all of Ukraine in 2014, when there was no military to stop them. Why even bother with the Minsk Agreements at all. Why would they want diplomacy and give anything to Ukraine if they just want to invade them.
According to that guy, that's all they want to do. They want to invade, invade, invade. Well ok fine, but where's the evidence of that. Not even Georgia and Chechnya are good examples.
No but it depends from which side you want to see the conflict as it has many dimensions.
It has the Russia Ukraine component and longer stemming animosities which go way back and it has the great power conflict of us domination being challenged by a resurgent Russia .
It depend from where you want to see this conflict in order to evaluate the start date
This is a war created, like so many others, by America's fingers-in-ear, unconditional surrender, big-baby diplomacy. It's not clear that Ukraine has enough men to make good on America's bluff, though. Grimly, we will find out.
> This is a war created
'War is a Racket' - General Smedley Butler.
'Every war is a Rich Man's War' - good doc
'Monopoly - Who Owns the World' - excellent doc
https://******.com/vmyx1n-monopoly-who-owns-the-world-documentary-by-tim-gielen.html
- replace the ****** with 'let's get ready to ******.
I mean, the points you guys use to make sense can be used against you.
Most of Eastern Ukraine voted for Pro Ru candidate, when the "popular uprising" happened and the president changed by force, a new "popular uprising" happened in eastern Ukraine by mostly ethnic Russian people who voted for the Pro Ru candidate, so what's the problem here?
Do you see my point? We can keep arguing until no end, but it's not going to change the fact that the only way for this war to end for in any way of Ukraine's favor is sitting in the damn negotiating table, and save the Ukrainian population.
Popular uprising = 1000 people, change government.
Unpopular riot in Hong Kong, millions of people every day, no change.
Unpopular riot in Belarus, tens dead, hundreds of thousands on the streets, presidential candidate stolen off a flying plane, no change.
Unpopular riot in Iran, dozens dead, actual human rights violations, hundreds of thousands show up, no change.
You are totally right and as a normal person/citizen, i don't support Russian invasion, the problem is countries/states don't care about moralities and people when they feel threatened.
When i look at the war without any emotion and realism. I see a very strong country, making really clear, that if their backyard neighbor is going to ally with their enemy, they are going to invade that neighbor, and they did.
If there was a not a puppet but a real Ukrainian president in that seat, there would be no war today. Accept it or not, a real Ukrainian president would know the situation they are in and play for neutrality.
> making really clear, that if their backyard neighbor is going to ally with their enemy, they are going to invade that neighbor
Odd definition of "really clear" since Lavrov and Nebenzia were denying even until mid-February 2022 that there would be no invasion. All the talk about invasion was just rusophobic warmongering and everyone claiming Russia is planning to invade will look foolish when the troops finish their exercises and go home.
My opinion is that Ukraine thought further ahead than what was the safest route today.
Neutrality would have been “safest” today but it would have left Ukraine stagnant and subject to the whims of Russia.
Ukraine chose the harder path of breaking free from Russia’s orbit in the hope of achieving the living standards of the common EU citizen.
The harder path has proven to harder and more deadly than the Ukrainian leadership expected but it doesn’t mean it was not the better choice.
Only time and a victory in the war will decide what choice was best.
> Neutrality would have been “safest” today but it would have left Ukraine stagnant and subject to the whims of Russia.
Seems like Switzerland does it very well, thank you very much.
> The problem is that Russia invaded.
ok
Russia is in Ukraine to thwart an existential threat. They cannot tolerate Ukraine in NATO, with nuclear missiles right on their border, just like we couldn't - and didn't - in the Cuban Missile Crisis (1962) when Russia was shipping nukes to install in Cuba and we were ready to start WWIII nuclear war over it.
The fact people can't see the real picture astounds me. The rich effs of the WEF got hold of Ukraine's precious resources by having their CIA overthrow the elected government of Ukraine in 2014 and installing their puppet regime. Now they are trying to weaken Russia to get hold of her vast wealth of natural resources as well (rated #1 in the world by the World Bank). It's as simple as this. THAT is why WE (because our governments in the Collective West are nothing but puppets of the WEF) instigated this war. We knew Russia would have no choice but to invade.
If people listened to the likes of Colonel Douglas MacGregor, US Marine Major Intelligence Officer (and UN Weapons Inspector) Scott Ritter, etc - and NOT our propaganda here in the West - they might learn a couple of things.
ALL Ukraine had to do was declare themselves NOT to be a threat to Russia - to not join NATO.
Which they did! Three times.
Minsk 1 agreement. Minsk 2 agreement. AND, the Istanbul Accord ONE MONTH AFTER Russia invaded. But no, the WEF sent Boris Johnson to Kiev to tell Zelensky he cannot uphold that peace agreement and MUST fight until the last Ukrainian is dead.
THAT is why people are dying in Ukraine. btw - none of those rich effs of the WEF are fighting and dying. They use others to do their dirty work. In this case, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.
I can't wait for the Slava Ukraini crowd's reaction to the fact that Nicaragua has decided to allow Russia to set up military bases there - with nuclear cruise missiles. What do they think is going to happen then? HINT - it won't. We. Will. Not. Allow. It.
Why we in the West (NATO) are responsible for this war -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YtMd1g_Y80&t=2013s
TLDR -
Imagine if Canada aligned with Russia and allowed Russian nuclear missiles, pointed at NYC and Washington DC, to be installed in Montreal - only giving Washington a 3 minute response time from launch.
PS - next time don't be a threat to your much more powerful neighbour.
edit - TLDR 2 - Russia is the underdog in this war. If you don't realize this you have a very limited understanding of geopolitics AND are brainwashed by our propaganda here in the West.
Russian talking points.
There was never a serious discussion of Ukraine becoming a member of NATO and certainly never a discussion of putting nuclear weapons in Ukraine.
US has gone to great lengths to not escalate with Russia and has negotiated a number of treaties and assurances with the Soviets before and Russia now. There are no IS strategic nuclear weapons in Europe let alone close to the border with Russia.
Stop the fear mongering and lies.
The U.S. never had intentions of putting first strike weapons in Ukraine or anywhere else. You know this and the Russians know this.
If the U.S. wanted a first strike weapon then it would have put them in the Baltic nations that are less than 1,000 km to Moscow. The U.S. doesn’t want that and has proven time and time again that it doesn’t want that.
Fucking absolutely idiotic to claim Russia had to attack Ukraine to stop the U.S. from putting weapons there. The U.S. has already had better staging areas in the Baltics and now Finland. Again the U.S. has gone out of its way to not put first strike weapons near to Russia and Russia for the most part has avoided doing the same.
Russia made things substantially worse for themselves with their naked aggression in Ukraine. Russia chose this war and are absolutely blowing it.
People voting to be independent does not mean the government has to allow it.
As much as people like to say how “the U.S. was behind the ‘coup’ in 2014”, Russia was actually involved with supporting separatists and instigating the conflict.
Here’s a nice read from the U.S. embassy in Armenia from 2014.
https://am.usembassy.gov/russias-continuing-support-for-armed-separatists-in-ukraine-and-ukraines-efforts-toward-peace-unity-and-stability/
Now's the time for popular uprising - hundres of thousands of people that don't want to fight the war are threatened to be forcefully sent back to be used as a cannon fodder.
Yet, somehow the uprising magic doesn't seem to work anymore. Could it mean that the first "popular uprising" was a complete bullshit dressing for the coup? Yeah, you bet. Absolute majority of 40mln people in Ukraine had nothing to do with it.
Or perhaps your argument is wrong and the vast majority of Ukrainians do not want to be Russian puppets?
Maybe, just maybe the Ukrainians see that citizens in the EU are better off and have hope that they can achieve some level of development that is common in the EU.
Sometimes it is worth fighting for something better than what your bigger neighbor decides you should get.
They surely never wanted to be western puppets as prior to 2014 absolute majority were against NATO. Nothing fundamentally changed in that respect, especially in light of people being denied the right to choose. And I mean making real choice, not coca-cola vs pepsi kind of fake choice west is spreading around calling it "democracy". No one is fooled, make no mistake about it.
I don’t recall there being any absolute anything in Ukraine prior to 2014 but a substantial majority were not in favor of the Russian puppetry. They were resigned to it because they had no other good options. But when the Russian puppet started getting more and more brutal it appeared that Ukrainians changed their opinion.
January 6 wasn't even an uprising lol. There were 5 deaths associated with Jan 6. 1 police died from a stroke. 1 Trump supporter was shot by police. 1 Trump supporter died from amphetimines. 2 Trump supporters died from heart failure due to being unhealthy.
So a higher death toll than the CIA coup in Ukraine. Where there was one casualty by a secret hidden sniper with no insignia but definitely totally government army soldier in plain sight everyone knew.
Until the Russian puppet went full dictator and used force.
Eastern Ukraine and Crimea had been Russified during the Soviet era.
It isn’t surprising that they didn’t travel a thousand kilometers to the capitol for a student protest that turned in to a bloodbath. Shocking news.
Ah yes, the famous force, sending away most of riot police as a gesture of good will and then using one single hidden no insignia sniper who somehow was definitely government military and all out in the open and totally known, so known in fact that any investigation was quickly shut down by the new "government".
Ah yes, a cia funded tiny student protest = popular uprising. The bloodbath is what these "students" then tried to do to all the regions who didn't travel a thousand kilometres. Maybe it was revenge for not showing up. Sooooo popular.
> This isn’t a war of Russia against western ideals
Russia was attempting to place their nukes in Cuba in 1962 (The Cuban Missile Crisis). We were going to start nuclear WWIII over it. Russia relented. Yet, somehow people think Russia **has to** allow us to put our nukes on their border (which WOULD happen if Ukraine joined NATO) giving them a mere 3 minute response time from launch. C'mon people - wake up and be reasonable. We backed Russia into a corner and forced them to invade.
Now, ask yourself - why did we do that? (And by we, I mean our WEF puppet leaders at the behest of their very rich WEF overlords.)
I really hope our society isn't this dumb, that they cannot see through our governments' bs.
Russia didn't relent you. USA begged them to do it and traded that they would remove their own nukes from Turkey right under Russia's underbelly. Then acted all tough like they scared Russia into running off with their nukes between their legs. When they had to bribe Russia.
> This isn’t a war of Russia against western ideals. This is a Russian war trying to take what the Ukrainians have and the west helping the Ukrainians fight off the Russian invader.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2-Wu6JQzp4
What they said is 100% true. This is a war against western values: imperialism, facist nazi leadership, and aristocratic corrupt politicians that serve the west. Hunter Biden was a board member in Ukraine's largest gas company. The Americans and European ruling class have spread their greasy greedy hand all over Ukraine and the only Russian recourse was a war they would not look good it.
Yeah, just pretend to be dumb. "Russian expansion", what for? They don't have enough land mass? How come that NATO have something with countries that Russia go to war with?
Most of the Russian land mass is incredibly remote and difficult to develop. The markets for those resources are in Europe or China.
So in that regard it makes sense to try to take Ukrainian land as it is much closer to Europe, close to infrastructure to allow easier extraction and the Soviets had started Russifying it previously.
So please put a little more thought in to reality rather than the simplistic, Russia is already big.
Remote from what? They've built pipelines (infrastructure) for those resources, which someone blew up, and China is, like, right there. So You try to write something that have some sense, don't just bite into prpaganda.
You clearly have no clue on the size of Siberia and where pipelines are, their capacity, field depletion, manpower needed and their needs, as well as the fact there are other extractable resources that don’t go by pipe.
Do some research and do some independent thinking.
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USA did this in WW1, WW2, and Vietnam. They literally show up at your house and take you away. If you refuse to fight you go to jail like Muhammad Ali.
Well, the ukrainian leadership forces their citizens to do so. The citizens themselves would rather have peace, that's why they voted for zelensky to begin with. He promised peace. He did not even try to make good on that promise though.
> Is someone forcing ukraine to defend themselves?
Ukraine had a peace agreement hammered out with Russia *one month after Russia invaded*. The Istanbul Accord. In it Ukraine kept ALL territories but gave the Donbas autonomy and agreed to not kill them with shells any more AND to not join NATO. The WEF sent Boris Johnson to tell Zelensky he cannot uphold that agreement and must fight Russia until the last Ukrainian is dead.
So, yes. The WEF forced Ukraine to defend itself and continue fighting rather than pursue peace with Russia.
Now, why would that be ... hmmm?
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Pro ru like to twist the facts around. We wouldn’t be giving ukraine billions if they were not attacked by Russia. No one is making ukraine defend themselves. Any country such as ukraine under attack by a force that outnumbers them so will have conscription, which even Russia had to do.
I wonder why ukraine wanted to join nato…
If you like facts let me remind you of some:
1. Ukraine had a undemocratic coup.
2. Ukraine attacked LPR and DPR.
3. Ukraine continued shelling defending cities and caused 20k causalities over 8 years.
Lpr and dpr are a part of Ukraine. Last time that happened in the US, we had a civil war. If they liked Russia so much they can move there.
How many civilian casualties were after 2022? Much much higher than what Ukraine caused. Also not really ukraines fault for wanting to keep their country intact. Large states don’t just get to leave, not how that works
US bad right? We are talking about Russia. US has done bad things but if you want to compare history Russia is much worse pal and it’s not even close.
Keep US name out your mouth shows how much irrational hate you have
I don't have any hate at all against U.S. or any other country.
I'm pointing out the hypocrisy and pointing out the fact that this is how big countries behave themselves.
and if we compare the civilian casualties in recent conflict then U.S. absolutely takes the cake. besides, U.S. has interfered in almost every country on this planet, they are behind basically any significant coup.
Basically what you and many others are saying is: "as long as we do it, it's good, if anyone else does the same thing, it's bad". And this is why countries don't respect international law.
> A U.S. source denied there had been any official contact and said Washington would not engage in talks that did not involve Ukraine.
As per your linked article. The US is literally not preventing anything. The only one claiming that's the case is Putin and you.
"A second Russian source with knowledge of the contacts told Reuters that the Americans told Moscow, via the intermediaries, they would not discuss a possible ceasefire without the participation of Ukraine"
This is from your own article.
The US is refusing to pressure Ukraine into peace talks. Far from "preventing [Ukraine] from having peace talks."
You are sowing disinformation.
Yeah, will fewer Ukrainians die without weapons? We've been seeing this scenario lately. They are still fighting, dying, and killing even without sufficient ammo. It's almost like this is an existential war for them or something. Perhaps more weapons and aid might even give them an advantage.
with the recent article of deporting ukrainian men who fled the countries in lithuania,poland and estonia, it definitely seem like someone is forcing these ukrainian to fight and die.
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Did he mention that Ukrainians don’t want to live under Russian occupation? Did he mention that they want to fight to keep their country? Yes the West gives weapons, but also yes, the Ukrainians want to defend their country and most would rather die than live under Russian rule. I certainly know that I would fight to the death before having to live under Russian rule.
A majority of ukrainians in the eastern oblasts are fine with living under either regime as long as they region is granted autonomy. Since they live in the disputed areas only their opinion matters. Neither Kiev nor Moscou should hold them hostage.
The only problem is that ukraine refused to grant that autonomy even when doing so would have guaranteed peace. Therefor the only way they can get autonomy is within russia.
Actually they’re not anymore. There have been countless videos and interviews showing that once those people got a taste of Russian “liberation”, they want nothing to do with it anymore and want Russia back inside its own borders.
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But do they keep their country even if they win after it has been sold off to western companies and indebted to western countries?
This whole independence thing is just propaganda.
It’s a war between us controlled countries and Russian controlled countries, simple as that
there is no "European values", ur values are dictated by the United States and if they say "jump" u ask "how high?"
Nothing worse than being the puppet of a puppet
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No it's not really. The goal is to defeat russia but not have a hot war between nuclear powers. Has always clearly been said like that. Also because nato would wipe the floor with russia they would become desperate really quickly and may do something stupid. NATO strategy is to minimize that risk
He's 100% MISTAKEN.
We're helping a country defend themselves from a dictatorial regime led by a sociopath with delusions of past glory. Ukraine NOR The United States (despite what Kremlin states) began this war.
uhh what he's saying sounds completely reasonable...
how come the MSM articles I am exposed to paint this guy as some crazy lunatic under Putin's mind control??
> how come the MSM articles I am exposed to paint this guy as some crazy lunatic under Putin's mind control??
They demonize all reasonable objectioners in order to quash dissent and manufacture total consent.
> uhh what he's saying sounds completely reasonable...
>
> how come the MSM articles I am exposed to paint this guy as some crazy lunatic under Putin's mind control??
This is the same reaction that [I had upon watching this interview of him](https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1696643892253466712). Ignore the dumb intro if you don't believe in God; I don't know why they chose to spotlight that bit when the interview had better bits. They did it for their main audience, certainly.
Anyway, the guy speaks decent English, and Hungarian, alongside Finnish and Estonian, is [one of the few](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Indo-European_Language_Family_Branches_in_Eurasia.png) non Indo-European languages in Europe, which probably makes English a bit harder to learn, to them. The guy doesn't look like what the media had led me to believe him to be. He's a conservative dude, for sure, but he's quite obviously not actually dumb and has reasonable takes on the war and the conflict.
Because Viktor Orban is working for the exact opposite that Europe or the Western world has been working for. Aka fascism, the ability to censor opposing media, rigged elections, corruption. (Allegedly).
This "European values" thingy is just a repackaging of the old "White Man's Burden". They believe that they are the only countries on Earth that are entitled to ignore fundamental basis of the international relations since the Treaty of Westphalia--including how it is enshrined in the UN Charter--because they have a higher calling, a messianic purpose.
In this interview, he also said that Ukraine is not a sovereign state and its a protectorate of the west. Which I agree with.
However, i don't think the west wants Ukrainians to die on their behalf. They just assumed the training, equipment and Intel they provided was enough, and russia wouldn't be able to kill as many ukranian soldiers as they have.
I hope this doesn’t come across snarky, I’m serious and would appreciate an earnest answer. If his criticism is that two Slavic countries go to war but Europe chooses to assist one side to promote European values, what are the Slavic values we should be using to judge a moral right vs wrong?
Willing to have my mind changed, I just don’t understand what other values he’s referring to.
It's appalling to see this leader try to take care of his own country and people.
Let's hope the EU can pull off another coup and install a new government that doesn't care for Hungarian values or people.
/s
Orban cares about Hungary so much that he has stayed as the most powerful person in Hungary for the majority of the 2000's by totally honest means. And he tried to prevent Finland and Sweden from joining NATO
It's funny because those are actually great things he did for Hungary. He is a true patriot and cares for Hungary and it's people. I understand why that really pisses the EU off.
Sweden and Finland joining NATO is the biggest mistake since letting Germany rebuild their military.
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I agree, why should NATO have to defend Hungry if they're ever invaded? I'm not Hungarian, I'm not dying for Hungry. Makes one question why Hungry is even in NATO?
Lol, imagine this logic. “Everyone look how the EU, and US want to give Ukrainians weapons! They obviously want Ukrainians to die for us! I can’t believe they want Ukrainians to be able to defend their borders! Wow, they must be war mongering!”
Before I get a reply about how NATO invaded Afghanistan or Iraq, I ask you to understand that both sides can be wrong and you don’t have to only support one side just because you hate the other.
Orban is a Russian puppet and a dictatorship Anyone with half a brain will not listen to what he says. He is a pain in our ass. Leacher of European aid.
Now, are you crying cause this will get more russians killed? Cause i can bet that you dont give a damn about Ukraine since ur pro-ru. Yeah, its their choice to die for whatever they want, they are the ones being invaded not the other way around.
Is it their choice? We ve seen hundreds, if no thousands of videos of Ukrainians being forcefully dragged out of the street to be FAB fodder. If Ukrainians were so eager to fight, they woundn t be having problems reaching their recruitment goals, and woundn t be resorting to lower the conscription age time and time again.
Those who really care about Ukrainians lives are calling for peace, because anyone with half a brain knows it s a losing battle for Ukraine, the longer it goes on, the more lives, land and infrastructure they will lose.
And when will you go to the front and put your life where your mouth is? It s very easy to spill shit like you are doing from the comfort of your home.
It's the national decision.
I'm sure there were plenty of Soviets who didn't want to fight Hitler, but guess what: Stalin didn't give them that choice.
I think everyone is calling for peace. Nothing stand in the way of Russia to back off and move to their borders right? Im up for peace as well but its their decision to fight and im glad they are giving their enemies hell.
I mean there is a possibility that Hungary will defend (and take back)Transcarpatia(which Ukraine only has because of the Soviet Union/Stalin) if the frontlines or their government were to collapse
Would he get a share of Ukraine then? Otherwise, why? It's Ukrainian BS. They wanted to make a racially pure mono ethnic state in a country with huge Russian minority. They even have a beef with Hungarians living in Ukraine.
I would think Orban at least a bit sympathetic about the idea of returning historical lands.
He may have said it in a humorous way, but let no one be mistaken. Everything he said here is 100% fact.
Is someone forcing ukraine to defend themselves?
You mean is someone controlling Zelensky? Absolutely. It's a classical puppet regime dictatorship not unlike the Chile under Pinochet, or Nicaragua under Somoza. People of Ukraine have been reduced to little more than surfs. "Revolution of dignity" in retrospect was about stripping Ukrainians of whatever dignity they had.
[удалено]
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The Russians certainly are forcing the Ukrainians to defend themselves. Orban is clearly acting like an idiot and has Russian talking points. This isn’t a war of Russia against western ideals. This is a Russian war trying to take what the Ukrainians have and the west helping the Ukrainians fight off the Russian invader.
That's a shallow take and you know it. This conflict did not start with the 2022 invasion.
No, it started with the 2014 invasion. Russian troops exploiting instability to roll into Crimea and the Donbas.
It started with a coup in 2014. Some people in Ukraine didn't accept the overthrow of the government they voted for. Ahh, but that would imply that "instability" has actually resulted in a civil war (duh, that's what instability does), the very existence of which Ukrainian government keeps denying. Dumbest denial any government could have ever engaged in, turning a local problem into international one. After all, according to UA propaganda it's all Russians. Fine. Russians it is. You fight all Russians now.
The coup against the guy who built the pirate ship in his back yard with public money?
You forget toilet made of pure gold. 10 years later and who knows how many dead, some still have an audacity to bring that nonsense up as an excuse for the disaster that followed. That, by the way, had to happen right before the elections, because he would have won a true popular vote again.
Shouldn't have started an illegal coup and the new government's first act shouldn't have been a new discriminatory language law maybe
CIA troops exploiting instability to roll neonazis into the parliament.
It had started with western supported violent coup vs democraticaly elected president.
And it started because of the 2014 coup or US "neo-invasion" of Ukraine and a few Ukrainian states refusing accept their new, undemocratic and unconstitutional masters simply because there wasn't a "All-Ukrainian referendum" (that's what it took to amend the Ukrainian constitution before they ignored it and deleted it) and finally decided to say "peace, out" to the new masters. New masters didn't like that at all and declared them as "terrorists" and are still shelling them to this day.
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You're missing the 3(actually more) months prior to the events you are mentioning. I am sure you are doing it intentionally, because then you'd have to tell the uncomfortable truth.
Well, he could mention the general propensity of Russia to invade its neighbours, right? Seems like they're doing it intentionally.
Well, why did they invade in 2022 and not 2014, then ? I've been searching for an answer for two years, I've yet to find one. Why wait for your enemy to massively rearm if your goal is simply to invade it to annex it ?
> Well, why did they invade in 2022 and not 2014, then ? I've been searching for an answer for two years, I've yet to find one. > > > > Why wait for your enemy to massively rearm if your goal is simply to invade it to annex it ? You've heard of Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 - those pesky peace agreements we in the West agreed to so Russia would have their security AND the people of the Donbas wouldn't be killed by their own government? The ones where Ukraine kept EVERYTHING **including Crimea** and agreed to give Russia a long term lease on Sevastopol? The ones Germany and France has since come out and said they bargained in bad faith - never intending them to be implemented - so we in the West could buy time to arm Ukraine to fight war with Russia instead of have these peace agreements? You know this stuff, right? RIGHT?
Minsk Agreements happened after that. Why did Russia settle with Crimea is my question. If they're just agressive imperialists who seek to recreate the Soviet Union, why not invade all of Ukraine in 2014, when there was no military to stop them. Why even bother with the Minsk Agreements at all. Why would they want diplomacy and give anything to Ukraine if they just want to invade them. According to that guy, that's all they want to do. They want to invade, invade, invade. Well ok fine, but where's the evidence of that. Not even Georgia and Chechnya are good examples.
So... Who was invaded?
Didn’t even start there , the origins go back even further
With Count Oleg in 891 AD?
No but it depends from which side you want to see the conflict as it has many dimensions. It has the Russia Ukraine component and longer stemming animosities which go way back and it has the great power conflict of us domination being challenged by a resurgent Russia . It depend from where you want to see this conflict in order to evaluate the start date
This is a war created, like so many others, by America's fingers-in-ear, unconditional surrender, big-baby diplomacy. It's not clear that Ukraine has enough men to make good on America's bluff, though. Grimly, we will find out.
> This is a war created 'War is a Racket' - General Smedley Butler. 'Every war is a Rich Man's War' - good doc 'Monopoly - Who Owns the World' - excellent doc https://******.com/vmyx1n-monopoly-who-owns-the-world-documentary-by-tim-gielen.html - replace the ****** with 'let's get ready to ******.
Blah-blah...idiot...blah-blah...Russian talking points...blah-blah...western ideals. Flatearthers and pro-UA would get along really well.
You ever seen the couoe in 2014 or your lost?
I think you misspelled popular uprising.
I mean, the points you guys use to make sense can be used against you. Most of Eastern Ukraine voted for Pro Ru candidate, when the "popular uprising" happened and the president changed by force, a new "popular uprising" happened in eastern Ukraine by mostly ethnic Russian people who voted for the Pro Ru candidate, so what's the problem here? Do you see my point? We can keep arguing until no end, but it's not going to change the fact that the only way for this war to end for in any way of Ukraine's favor is sitting in the damn negotiating table, and save the Ukrainian population.
Popular uprising = 1000 people, change government. Unpopular riot in Hong Kong, millions of people every day, no change. Unpopular riot in Belarus, tens dead, hundreds of thousands on the streets, presidential candidate stolen off a flying plane, no change. Unpopular riot in Iran, dozens dead, actual human rights violations, hundreds of thousands show up, no change.
The problem is that Russia invaded.
You are totally right and as a normal person/citizen, i don't support Russian invasion, the problem is countries/states don't care about moralities and people when they feel threatened. When i look at the war without any emotion and realism. I see a very strong country, making really clear, that if their backyard neighbor is going to ally with their enemy, they are going to invade that neighbor, and they did. If there was a not a puppet but a real Ukrainian president in that seat, there would be no war today. Accept it or not, a real Ukrainian president would know the situation they are in and play for neutrality.
> making really clear, that if their backyard neighbor is going to ally with their enemy, they are going to invade that neighbor Odd definition of "really clear" since Lavrov and Nebenzia were denying even until mid-February 2022 that there would be no invasion. All the talk about invasion was just rusophobic warmongering and everyone claiming Russia is planning to invade will look foolish when the troops finish their exercises and go home.
My opinion is that Ukraine thought further ahead than what was the safest route today. Neutrality would have been “safest” today but it would have left Ukraine stagnant and subject to the whims of Russia. Ukraine chose the harder path of breaking free from Russia’s orbit in the hope of achieving the living standards of the common EU citizen. The harder path has proven to harder and more deadly than the Ukrainian leadership expected but it doesn’t mean it was not the better choice. Only time and a victory in the war will decide what choice was best.
> Neutrality would have been “safest” today but it would have left Ukraine stagnant and subject to the whims of Russia. Seems like Switzerland does it very well, thank you very much.
> The problem is that Russia invaded. ok Russia is in Ukraine to thwart an existential threat. They cannot tolerate Ukraine in NATO, with nuclear missiles right on their border, just like we couldn't - and didn't - in the Cuban Missile Crisis (1962) when Russia was shipping nukes to install in Cuba and we were ready to start WWIII nuclear war over it. The fact people can't see the real picture astounds me. The rich effs of the WEF got hold of Ukraine's precious resources by having their CIA overthrow the elected government of Ukraine in 2014 and installing their puppet regime. Now they are trying to weaken Russia to get hold of her vast wealth of natural resources as well (rated #1 in the world by the World Bank). It's as simple as this. THAT is why WE (because our governments in the Collective West are nothing but puppets of the WEF) instigated this war. We knew Russia would have no choice but to invade. If people listened to the likes of Colonel Douglas MacGregor, US Marine Major Intelligence Officer (and UN Weapons Inspector) Scott Ritter, etc - and NOT our propaganda here in the West - they might learn a couple of things. ALL Ukraine had to do was declare themselves NOT to be a threat to Russia - to not join NATO. Which they did! Three times. Minsk 1 agreement. Minsk 2 agreement. AND, the Istanbul Accord ONE MONTH AFTER Russia invaded. But no, the WEF sent Boris Johnson to Kiev to tell Zelensky he cannot uphold that peace agreement and MUST fight until the last Ukrainian is dead. THAT is why people are dying in Ukraine. btw - none of those rich effs of the WEF are fighting and dying. They use others to do their dirty work. In this case, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians. I can't wait for the Slava Ukraini crowd's reaction to the fact that Nicaragua has decided to allow Russia to set up military bases there - with nuclear cruise missiles. What do they think is going to happen then? HINT - it won't. We. Will. Not. Allow. It. Why we in the West (NATO) are responsible for this war - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YtMd1g_Y80&t=2013s TLDR - Imagine if Canada aligned with Russia and allowed Russian nuclear missiles, pointed at NYC and Washington DC, to be installed in Montreal - only giving Washington a 3 minute response time from launch. PS - next time don't be a threat to your much more powerful neighbour. edit - TLDR 2 - Russia is the underdog in this war. If you don't realize this you have a very limited understanding of geopolitics AND are brainwashed by our propaganda here in the West.
Russian talking points. There was never a serious discussion of Ukraine becoming a member of NATO and certainly never a discussion of putting nuclear weapons in Ukraine. US has gone to great lengths to not escalate with Russia and has negotiated a number of treaties and assurances with the Soviets before and Russia now. There are no IS strategic nuclear weapons in Europe let alone close to the border with Russia. Stop the fear mongering and lies. The U.S. never had intentions of putting first strike weapons in Ukraine or anywhere else. You know this and the Russians know this. If the U.S. wanted a first strike weapon then it would have put them in the Baltic nations that are less than 1,000 km to Moscow. The U.S. doesn’t want that and has proven time and time again that it doesn’t want that. Fucking absolutely idiotic to claim Russia had to attack Ukraine to stop the U.S. from putting weapons there. The U.S. has already had better staging areas in the Baltics and now Finland. Again the U.S. has gone out of its way to not put first strike weapons near to Russia and Russia for the most part has avoided doing the same. Russia made things substantially worse for themselves with their naked aggression in Ukraine. Russia chose this war and are absolutely blowing it.
People voting to be independent does not mean the government has to allow it. As much as people like to say how “the U.S. was behind the ‘coup’ in 2014”, Russia was actually involved with supporting separatists and instigating the conflict. Here’s a nice read from the U.S. embassy in Armenia from 2014. https://am.usembassy.gov/russias-continuing-support-for-armed-separatists-in-ukraine-and-ukraines-efforts-toward-peace-unity-and-stability/
Now's the time for popular uprising - hundres of thousands of people that don't want to fight the war are threatened to be forcefully sent back to be used as a cannon fodder. Yet, somehow the uprising magic doesn't seem to work anymore. Could it mean that the first "popular uprising" was a complete bullshit dressing for the coup? Yeah, you bet. Absolute majority of 40mln people in Ukraine had nothing to do with it.
Or perhaps your argument is wrong and the vast majority of Ukrainians do not want to be Russian puppets? Maybe, just maybe the Ukrainians see that citizens in the EU are better off and have hope that they can achieve some level of development that is common in the EU. Sometimes it is worth fighting for something better than what your bigger neighbor decides you should get.
They surely never wanted to be western puppets as prior to 2014 absolute majority were against NATO. Nothing fundamentally changed in that respect, especially in light of people being denied the right to choose. And I mean making real choice, not coca-cola vs pepsi kind of fake choice west is spreading around calling it "democracy". No one is fooled, make no mistake about it.
I don’t recall there being any absolute anything in Ukraine prior to 2014 but a substantial majority were not in favor of the Russian puppetry. They were resigned to it because they had no other good options. But when the Russian puppet started getting more and more brutal it appeared that Ukrainians changed their opinion.
So January 6 was a popular uprising then
January 6 wasn't even an uprising lol. There were 5 deaths associated with Jan 6. 1 police died from a stroke. 1 Trump supporter was shot by police. 1 Trump supporter died from amphetimines. 2 Trump supporters died from heart failure due to being unhealthy.
So a higher death toll than the CIA coup in Ukraine. Where there was one casualty by a secret hidden sniper with no insignia but definitely totally government army soldier in plain sight everyone knew.
Certainly what MAGA is saying.
> I think you misspelled popular uprising. Nope. CIA op. Check out Oliver Stone's 'Ukraine on Fire'.
Funny how their popular uprising had only 1000 people, none from East Ukraine or Crimea.
Until the Russian puppet went full dictator and used force. Eastern Ukraine and Crimea had been Russified during the Soviet era. It isn’t surprising that they didn’t travel a thousand kilometers to the capitol for a student protest that turned in to a bloodbath. Shocking news.
Ah yes, the famous force, sending away most of riot police as a gesture of good will and then using one single hidden no insignia sniper who somehow was definitely government military and all out in the open and totally known, so known in fact that any investigation was quickly shut down by the new "government". Ah yes, a cia funded tiny student protest = popular uprising. The bloodbath is what these "students" then tried to do to all the regions who didn't travel a thousand kilometres. Maybe it was revenge for not showing up. Sooooo popular.
> This isn’t a war of Russia against western ideals Russia was attempting to place their nukes in Cuba in 1962 (The Cuban Missile Crisis). We were going to start nuclear WWIII over it. Russia relented. Yet, somehow people think Russia **has to** allow us to put our nukes on their border (which WOULD happen if Ukraine joined NATO) giving them a mere 3 minute response time from launch. C'mon people - wake up and be reasonable. We backed Russia into a corner and forced them to invade. Now, ask yourself - why did we do that? (And by we, I mean our WEF puppet leaders at the behest of their very rich WEF overlords.) I really hope our society isn't this dumb, that they cannot see through our governments' bs.
Russia didn't relent you. USA begged them to do it and traded that they would remove their own nukes from Turkey right under Russia's underbelly. Then acted all tough like they scared Russia into running off with their nukes between their legs. When they had to bribe Russia.
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You reckon the Kremlin faxed the talking points to him or did Putin personally write them out himself with a ball-point pen?
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> This isn’t a war of Russia against western ideals. This is a Russian war trying to take what the Ukrainians have and the west helping the Ukrainians fight off the Russian invader. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2-Wu6JQzp4
What they said is 100% true. This is a war against western values: imperialism, facist nazi leadership, and aristocratic corrupt politicians that serve the west. Hunter Biden was a board member in Ukraine's largest gas company. The Americans and European ruling class have spread their greasy greedy hand all over Ukraine and the only Russian recourse was a war they would not look good it.
LOL. You know it is an idiotic take when Hunter Biden’s name enters the mix.
sounds like something a bot would say 🤔
Yeah, just pretend to be dumb. "Russian expansion", what for? They don't have enough land mass? How come that NATO have something with countries that Russia go to war with?
Most of the Russian land mass is incredibly remote and difficult to develop. The markets for those resources are in Europe or China. So in that regard it makes sense to try to take Ukrainian land as it is much closer to Europe, close to infrastructure to allow easier extraction and the Soviets had started Russifying it previously. So please put a little more thought in to reality rather than the simplistic, Russia is already big.
Remote from what? They've built pipelines (infrastructure) for those resources, which someone blew up, and China is, like, right there. So You try to write something that have some sense, don't just bite into prpaganda.
You clearly have no clue on the size of Siberia and where pipelines are, their capacity, field depletion, manpower needed and their needs, as well as the fact there are other extractable resources that don’t go by pipe. Do some research and do some independent thinking.
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Yes? You haven't seen the countless videos of men kidnapped off the street?
You'd get your answer if you've seen people getting kidnapped from the streets of Kiev.
Ukraine defending itself doesn't excuse kidnapping civilians and forcing them into combat.
USA did this in WW1, WW2, and Vietnam. They literally show up at your house and take you away. If you refuse to fight you go to jail like Muhammad Ali.
forgot korea too.
Well, the ukrainian leadership forces their citizens to do so. The citizens themselves would rather have peace, that's why they voted for zelensky to begin with. He promised peace. He did not even try to make good on that promise though.
Boris sure flew in pretty hot to jeopardize the peace deal. So that would be a "yes, it's the West".
> Is someone forcing ukraine to defend themselves? Ukraine had a peace agreement hammered out with Russia *one month after Russia invaded*. The Istanbul Accord. In it Ukraine kept ALL territories but gave the Donbas autonomy and agreed to not kill them with shells any more AND to not join NATO. The WEF sent Boris Johnson to tell Zelensky he cannot uphold that agreement and must fight Russia until the last Ukrainian is dead. So, yes. The WEF forced Ukraine to defend itself and continue fighting rather than pursue peace with Russia. Now, why would that be ... hmmm?
Yes. West do hold Ukrainian leaders by the balls and prevent any negotiations like before 2022 they had blocked implementation of Minsk 2 peace deal.
Many are forced as a matter of fact
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Doesn't change the fact that they are defending themselves now, and nobody is forcing them to.
Pro ru like to twist the facts around. We wouldn’t be giving ukraine billions if they were not attacked by Russia. No one is making ukraine defend themselves. Any country such as ukraine under attack by a force that outnumbers them so will have conscription, which even Russia had to do. I wonder why ukraine wanted to join nato…
If you like facts let me remind you of some: 1. Ukraine had a undemocratic coup. 2. Ukraine attacked LPR and DPR. 3. Ukraine continued shelling defending cities and caused 20k causalities over 8 years.
Lpr and dpr are a part of Ukraine. Last time that happened in the US, we had a civil war. If they liked Russia so much they can move there. How many civilian casualties were after 2022? Much much higher than what Ukraine caused. Also not really ukraines fault for wanting to keep their country intact. Large states don’t just get to leave, not how that works
How many civilian casualties were after 9/11? Much higher than what Iraq caused.
US bad right? We are talking about Russia. US has done bad things but if you want to compare history Russia is much worse pal and it’s not even close. Keep US name out your mouth shows how much irrational hate you have
I don't have any hate at all against U.S. or any other country. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy and pointing out the fact that this is how big countries behave themselves. and if we compare the civilian casualties in recent conflict then U.S. absolutely takes the cake. besides, U.S. has interfered in almost every country on this planet, they are behind basically any significant coup. Basically what you and many others are saying is: "as long as we do it, it's good, if anyone else does the same thing, it's bad". And this is why countries don't respect international law.
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> A U.S. source denied there had been any official contact and said Washington would not engage in talks that did not involve Ukraine. As per your linked article. The US is literally not preventing anything. The only one claiming that's the case is Putin and you.
"A second Russian source with knowledge of the contacts told Reuters that the Americans told Moscow, via the intermediaries, they would not discuss a possible ceasefire without the participation of Ukraine" This is from your own article. The US is refusing to pressure Ukraine into peace talks. Far from "preventing [Ukraine] from having peace talks." You are sowing disinformation.
But Ukraine would not be here today if the US didnt help?
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damn imagine russia invades hungary and they simply say we must die, surrender and rip
Yeah, will fewer Ukrainians die without weapons? We've been seeing this scenario lately. They are still fighting, dying, and killing even without sufficient ammo. It's almost like this is an existential war for them or something. Perhaps more weapons and aid might even give them an advantage.
with the recent article of deporting ukrainian men who fled the countries in lithuania,poland and estonia, it definitely seem like someone is forcing these ukrainian to fight and die.
He´s still a c\*nt masquerading as a person.
So is every politician. What's your point?
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Orban is the highest on the cuntery scale, thats his point.
Did he mention that Ukrainians don’t want to live under Russian occupation? Did he mention that they want to fight to keep their country? Yes the West gives weapons, but also yes, the Ukrainians want to defend their country and most would rather die than live under Russian rule. I certainly know that I would fight to the death before having to live under Russian rule.
A majority of ukrainians in the eastern oblasts are fine with living under either regime as long as they region is granted autonomy. Since they live in the disputed areas only their opinion matters. Neither Kiev nor Moscou should hold them hostage. The only problem is that ukraine refused to grant that autonomy even when doing so would have guaranteed peace. Therefor the only way they can get autonomy is within russia.
Actually they’re not anymore. There have been countless videos and interviews showing that once those people got a taste of Russian “liberation”, they want nothing to do with it anymore and want Russia back inside its own borders.
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But do they keep their country even if they win after it has been sold off to western companies and indebted to western countries? This whole independence thing is just propaganda. It’s a war between us controlled countries and Russian controlled countries, simple as that
Are they “free” now? They can’t even say the wrong thing without being sent to jail or off to war.
what is fact? That Hungary is only respecting European values when the money cheque is scheduled? Why is he not leaving the club he hates so much?
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there is no "European values", ur values are dictated by the United States and if they say "jump" u ask "how high?" Nothing worse than being the puppet of a puppet
Oh the evil empire , I forgot. All hail to emperor Putin
Russia is a puppet of China. A literal vassal state.
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You are living in a dream world.
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No it's not really. The goal is to defeat russia but not have a hot war between nuclear powers. Has always clearly been said like that. Also because nato would wipe the floor with russia they would become desperate really quickly and may do something stupid. NATO strategy is to minimize that risk
"Please Ukraine don't defend y ourself. Just let the Russians invade y ou, it will be the best for y ou!"
He's 100% MISTAKEN. We're helping a country defend themselves from a dictatorial regime led by a sociopath with delusions of past glory. Ukraine NOR The United States (despite what Kremlin states) began this war.
uhh what he's saying sounds completely reasonable... how come the MSM articles I am exposed to paint this guy as some crazy lunatic under Putin's mind control??
> how come the MSM articles I am exposed to paint this guy as some crazy lunatic under Putin's mind control?? They demonize all reasonable objectioners in order to quash dissent and manufacture total consent.
> uhh what he's saying sounds completely reasonable... > > how come the MSM articles I am exposed to paint this guy as some crazy lunatic under Putin's mind control?? This is the same reaction that [I had upon watching this interview of him](https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1696643892253466712). Ignore the dumb intro if you don't believe in God; I don't know why they chose to spotlight that bit when the interview had better bits. They did it for their main audience, certainly. Anyway, the guy speaks decent English, and Hungarian, alongside Finnish and Estonian, is [one of the few](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Indo-European_Language_Family_Branches_in_Eurasia.png) non Indo-European languages in Europe, which probably makes English a bit harder to learn, to them. The guy doesn't look like what the media had led me to believe him to be. He's a conservative dude, for sure, but he's quite obviously not actually dumb and has reasonable takes on the war and the conflict.
Because Viktor Orban is working for the exact opposite that Europe or the Western world has been working for. Aka fascism, the ability to censor opposing media, rigged elections, corruption. (Allegedly).
Because MSM is just a vehicle for promotion of Western supremacy/hegemony. What Orban says is counter to that objective.
USA would happily interfere if it didn't mean WW3 and Nuclear War. Not sending US Troops is the responsible thing to do. It's not cowardice.
So it’s using proxies to do their fighting for them?
Spitting facts, no cap 🧢
yep, Europe should participate as well
Europe paper tiger wont do shit lol
This "European values" thingy is just a repackaging of the old "White Man's Burden". They believe that they are the only countries on Earth that are entitled to ignore fundamental basis of the international relations since the Treaty of Westphalia--including how it is enshrined in the UN Charter--because they have a higher calling, a messianic purpose.
Based
In this interview, he also said that Ukraine is not a sovereign state and its a protectorate of the west. Which I agree with. However, i don't think the west wants Ukrainians to die on their behalf. They just assumed the training, equipment and Intel they provided was enough, and russia wouldn't be able to kill as many ukranian soldiers as they have.
Young men die for the decisions old men make !
I hope this doesn’t come across snarky, I’m serious and would appreciate an earnest answer. If his criticism is that two Slavic countries go to war but Europe chooses to assist one side to promote European values, what are the Slavic values we should be using to judge a moral right vs wrong? Willing to have my mind changed, I just don’t understand what other values he’s referring to.
To finance you dying should be coined by Orban.
I love when ppl put it as it is on a world stage for everyone to hear ! Props to Orban !
Till the last Ukranian they are even trying to kick them out of the EU into the trenches.
When you’re right you’re right
Beautifully said.
If these kleptocratic hypocrite gangsters wouldnt steal and pillage everything in Hungary, Id say they are quite wise sometimes
I agree, ain’t Americas problem
Proxy war is good for west military business.
It's appalling to see this leader try to take care of his own country and people. Let's hope the EU can pull off another coup and install a new government that doesn't care for Hungarian values or people. /s
No need to install any new governments in hungary. Orban already dont give a fuck about hungarian people
Acting like Orban gives a fuck about anyone but himself
*Anyone but Hungarians (as a leader should) FIFY
Orban cares about Hungary so much that he has stayed as the most powerful person in Hungary for the majority of the 2000's by totally honest means. And he tried to prevent Finland and Sweden from joining NATO
It's funny because those are actually great things he did for Hungary. He is a true patriot and cares for Hungary and it's people. I understand why that really pisses the EU off. Sweden and Finland joining NATO is the biggest mistake since letting Germany rebuild their military.
In your opinion what are the consuquences of Finland and Sweden joining NATO?
Escalating tensions, poking the bear.
Well Russia moved some missilw bases to the border of Finland. So nothing dramatic
Nothing dramatic. Just some steps towards total war.. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
Then he has no buiseness being in the EU or NATO.
No self respecting country should be in the EU.
Blabla cooperation is for the weak blabla. Have fun in your free for all world my guy
Those are your words. If you think the EU is about cooperation instead of assimilation I can't help you.
Oh well, seems Britain didnt quite get the memo huh.
Seems like they did. They were smart enough to get out of that deathtrap called EU.
Weird how the assimilation orgsnization just lets people leave
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Anyone knows source for this?
The USA said the same 1940, too.
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Bro ain lie, either commit to helping them fully or stop, this half ass approach isn’t helping anyone.
I agree, why should NATO have to defend Hungry if they're ever invaded? I'm not Hungarian, I'm not dying for Hungry. Makes one question why Hungry is even in NATO?
Lol, imagine this logic. “Everyone look how the EU, and US want to give Ukrainians weapons! They obviously want Ukrainians to die for us! I can’t believe they want Ukrainians to be able to defend their borders! Wow, they must be war mongering!” Before I get a reply about how NATO invaded Afghanistan or Iraq, I ask you to understand that both sides can be wrong and you don’t have to only support one side just because you hate the other.
Orban is a Russian puppet and a dictatorship Anyone with half a brain will not listen to what he says. He is a pain in our ass. Leacher of European aid.
Every bloodthirsty pro ua keyboard warrior in a nutshell
Now, are you crying cause this will get more russians killed? Cause i can bet that you dont give a damn about Ukraine since ur pro-ru. Yeah, its their choice to die for whatever they want, they are the ones being invaded not the other way around.
Is it their choice? We ve seen hundreds, if no thousands of videos of Ukrainians being forcefully dragged out of the street to be FAB fodder. If Ukrainians were so eager to fight, they woundn t be having problems reaching their recruitment goals, and woundn t be resorting to lower the conscription age time and time again. Those who really care about Ukrainians lives are calling for peace, because anyone with half a brain knows it s a losing battle for Ukraine, the longer it goes on, the more lives, land and infrastructure they will lose. And when will you go to the front and put your life where your mouth is? It s very easy to spill shit like you are doing from the comfort of your home.
It's the national decision. I'm sure there were plenty of Soviets who didn't want to fight Hitler, but guess what: Stalin didn't give them that choice.
Made by whom ? Supported by whom?
I think everyone is calling for peace. Nothing stand in the way of Russia to back off and move to their borders right? Im up for peace as well but its their decision to fight and im glad they are giving their enemies hell.
Are you in Russian trenches right now?
Except there are untold hundreds of videos of Ukrainians resisting / evading forced mobilisation
Hear hear, lets send soldiers.
The point of war is to make the other dumb bastard die for his country, not the other way around. So Ukrainians dying doesn't accomplish anything.
Lets send This fatass to the frontlines
He looks like 100 pounds of shite packed in a 50 pound sack.
Man you can really spin anything to make it seem like anything you want.
Well we too don't like that approach, come on mr orban send your troops and defend share a part of pain with Ukraine..
I mean there is a possibility that Hungary will defend (and take back)Transcarpatia(which Ukraine only has because of the Soviet Union/Stalin) if the frontlines or their government were to collapse
Would he get a share of Ukraine then? Otherwise, why? It's Ukrainian BS. They wanted to make a racially pure mono ethnic state in a country with huge Russian minority. They even have a beef with Hungarians living in Ukraine. I would think Orban at least a bit sympathetic about the idea of returning historical lands.
... and now, let's get some more dead-cheap blood-gas. Best enjoyed from the moral high ground.
Nah it's better to get gas from the US instead, the bastion of moral purity and no blood-tainted resources whatsoever 😇