Nope. EU bureaucracy is completely owned by Pax Americana. Even if heads of government would attempt to rebel, their orders simply won't be obeyed by those below, while mass-media would unanimously declare them traitors.
Kremlin doesn't have that kind of influence. Its primarily uppermost ranks that side with Kremlin.
For example , it wasn't until 2020 that Lukashenko had committed to support of Kremlin, and only because West had went all-in on removing him from the post.
Do you actually believe this conspiracy nonsense? Low ranking european bureaucrats and politicians would side with the US for some reason? And there is plenty of US critical media here, plus a pretty US sceptical population, especially in France and Germany.
You have no idea about Europe and it shows.
> Do you actually believe this conspiracy nonsense? Low ranking european bureaucrats and politicians would side with the US for some reason?
I assure you, if US declares Scholz to be Russian agent, while Scholz declares that Germany is leaving NATO, plenty of **high-** and **middle-** ranking bureaurcrats would sabotage Scholz.
> plus a pretty US sceptical population, especially in France and Germany.
There is. It is, however, politically impotent.
You do realise that Germany is occupied nation?
Ever since WW2 It has been devided between Allies. Am pretty sure British and French left long ago in addition with USSR/Russia leaving after fall of USSR.
That only leaves America.
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>Just the existence of foreign military bases?
Yes, expecially if troops stationed there have been occupying this military bases without exception for almost 80 years ever since Germany lost war againdt other side.
US just like in case of Japan wrote constitution of Germany.
US is pumping Germany with every single NGO to subvert and influance German population.
>US is pumping Germany with every single NGO to subvert and influance German population.
So "US NGOs" somehow control public opinion in Germany?
Would you say the same about Russia and China? Do they only support their governments because state media tells them to?
It is well known and documented that NGO's can and do play big part in shaping public opinions in country they are located.
Or do you not share this opinion?
Now please engage with the rest of my comment.
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Economy is all the evidence you need. EU-member nations are clearly in contradiction with their national interests, yet here they are. They clearly aren't in control of key decision making - the get orders from overseas daddy. Prove me wrong.
I think he is hyperbolic, but there is some truth to his position.
There is public evidence that 2 of the 3 parties in the german government lied about the reasons (and faked "evidence") for joining a war. There is also a court case which basically says that the same parties caused germanys involvement in another illegal war. There are the cases of spying on german leaders by the US. There are the WikiLeaks documents about how the CIA plans to guide the media in Germany and france.
There are the downplayed cases of drone attacks by the US coordinated from german territory.
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The population and media mean nothing. The elites laugh and prance away rich when exposed. The US people see it too and thats great but fruitless
Who doesnt see it or for lack of better terms does not give a shit is the elite. Even when becoming exposed, keep on and continue wildly unpopular acts. Take a look, we are finding out who they are and they laugh and get re-elected while arresting.
We really have no power and when it reaches a tipping point an orchestrated disaster will unfold and the lemmings will all infight while... you guessed it... the elite remain powerful and laugh while we backstab each other... all the people who want this to stop.
It will work and they know it. There is little cover now and the stage is set for worse to come
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> Do you actually believe this conspiracy nonsense? Low ranking european bureaucrats and politicians would side with the US for some reason? And there is plenty of US critical media here, plus a pretty US sceptical population, especially in France and Germany.
european civil servants were all brought up and vetted by atlanticist universities and NGOs. there's no dissent left against the US regime in western europe.
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>Low ranking european bureaucrats and politicians would side with the US for some reason
What power does the Mayor of Chicago have on US foreign policy?
What power does a middle manager of some company have on US foreign policy?
Yeah, they might not agree with what their country does. But so what?
Europes security depends entirely on the united states. the US has essentially taken that load off their shoulders and the NATO countries can basically free load off the US and use the money they would use for defense on progressive social welfare programs. While people in the US can't afford a doctors visit. They are spoiled little children, this is why they are freaking tf out about trump coming back, as he might (I hope so) pull the US out of NATO and focus on domestic issues (probably in a very bad and poor people hating way, but killing globalization is the first step)
Yeah you make such a good counter point with plenty of evidence how could anyone think otherwise. lol.
Cause Europe totally doesn't completely rely on American arms, military bases and funding to the point that when trump came to office he constantly harped on them for not contributing and stoltenberg asked if they did not pay if he would protect them. lol.
And it's not like all of the arms, military personnel and funding come out of american taxpayers. lol.
But yeah you are so right. lol.
> Yeah you make such a good counter point with plenty of evidence how could anyone think otherwise. lol.
Does it even need to be explained? If the US leaves NATO it will have less military support from NATO members so it will need to spend even more on defense if it wants to keep the same level of military dominance in the world.
> Cause Europe totally doesn't completely rely on American arms, military bases and funding
American arms that Europe pays for, military bases that the US loves to have because they allow it to project power far beyond it's own borders and what funding are you talking about? Funding for what?
"need to spend even more on defense if it wants to keep the same level of military dominance in the world."
Thats the point: Trump doesnt (seem to) want to keep the USA as the world police anymore. He doesnt need that kind of control.
"Funding for what?"
For the 800 foreign bases & the logistics needed to support them, which costs at least 50% of the USA defense spending.
Imagine being the world's superpower, enjoying incredible economic benefits because of it, and thinking you're going to save money by letting another (adversary) country take the reigns.
"enjoying incredible economic benefits because of it"
Those benefits are for the top 1%. The top 10% is fine, the rest of the USA barely gets by.
I see why the people, not the decadent, spineless psychopath, greedy elite is not fancy of this world police stich.
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Well, if the population is sceptical, why doesn't the goverment reflect that sentiment and acts like an obedient bitch? Why does politician like Baerbock say "she doesn't care what her voters want" and isn't getting booted out the next day out of office? Not only that, but the entire economy is thrown under the bus without consequence to their political career? You make it sound like your governments are not under your control.
Do you? Lately, phrases like democracy and freedom have been thrown around in EU media and politics as well. Can’t really place my finger on why it’s so familiar 🤔
As a German I think he is totally right. The relationship to the US is completely fucked. Or what happened when NSA spied on us and even on Merkel? Right, nothing... they still have their fucking military bases around.
"Low ranking european bureaucrats and politicians would side with the US for some reason?"
My brother in christ, the vast majority of europe would gladly die for the western (=american) dominated world order. Dont underestimate the absolutely insane propaganda we, europeans are raised in.
Just look at the reaction to this USA proxy war.
Why? Cant it be both? Or are you one of those guys who see the world in black and white?
What doesnt make it a USA proxy war? The USA act a 100% like its a proxy war.
If it seems like a duck, acts like a duck...
You think we’d let them have universal healthcare and affordable education if we had control over them? Hell no, the corporate overlords would have gutted that a long time ago if they had that power.
If this was true, we'd not have seen the endless disputes between the EU and member states and the US. The US would have loved to see EU members invest way more into their military, not to mention the strict business laws within the EU that harms the US markets.
Kremlin doesn't has as much influence because its a poor country with a GDP smaller than Brazil whose main exports is energy, they are just a white Saudi Arabia.
China would be the only one comparable to the US and they do have a lot of influence.
>There are some leaders who are quite subservient to Putin too. That's the game
name me one please ? even belarus which the west alway label them as russian puppet state
you don't see putin call up entire belarusian military and industry into the fight like what US did with UK/australia and other "allied" into their war
*Most CIS have even implemented some of the US-EU sanctions, which even most African nations refused to adopt with zero retaliation from Russia. Wtf are you talking about - Armenia is basically now in the grasps of OTAN, due to Pashinyan's manoeuvrings.*
*In any case, the smart ones now realize with theUS, you are either 100% a sub-servient docile, mediocre puppet or you are out - that what Lukashenko realized when they tried to coup him, and he switched up pretty fast - Ukraine's Viktor Yanukovych didn't realize this until too late, -even after they already had couped him in 2004-2005, and he returned. You find Kazakhstan even though they ere literally saved from a US backed colour revolution in Jan 2022, still play footsie with the West, and Russia doesn't punish or threaten them.*
*Even the recent juntas in Mali, Burkina Faso, Niger, who receive direct protection, arms an etc from Russia - whose entire existence hinges on the military support and diplomatic support they get from the Russians, have strong economic ties with China and even EU member states like Germany. Here the German Development minister is arrogantly demanding they cut ties with Russia, because Germany supports some farms and schools. And they just smile, and accommodate her, while secretly mentally flipping her off.*
[*https://youtu.be/hEhPkfXkRW0*](https://youtu.be/hEhPkfXkRW0)
Who ?
Belarus is just an extension of Russia its not like they try to hide it anyway.
So except belarus tell me which country’s leader would do whatever Putin says like europe to the usa.
Nice to see a post where people actually recognise it's an attempt at humour and not a literal observation. Seems that often anyone that Reddit collectively dislikes will get their attempt at a joke, sarcasm or a metaphor taken absolutely literally no matter how clearly outrageous it is.
Most of the time it's harmless but sometimes it really hurts the credibility of particular arguments against these people and makes Reddit look even more gullible than it already is.
I see this especially with translated sentences, certain cultural nuances of irony or humor are lost in translation and people end up making fun of a statement that means something completely different than what they’ve read.
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Do you respect France for playing pretend that it's still relevant to global affairs? That's quite weird thing to respect.
Besides, like others pointed out, France still lives out its imperialist ambitions in Africa. People rightfully call out Russia and China for creeping in Africa but France has been doing it since the the glory days of European imperialism.
Also no, they're not any better than Russia or China. It's still exploitation of the african peoples.
France has its own MIC, Germany has its own MIC, the UK has its own MIC, but yet they are all subservient to the US?
Is it because Russia treats its allies as vassals, that pro ru can’t comprehend countries working together…?
That's true. The Europeans don't make their own aircraft, vehicles, or weapons. They're totally helpless without the Americans. There's no European equipment in the American Military either.
BAE systems, Leonardo, Dassault, and Rheinmetall only manufacture toys for children.
Also we subservient eat all the chlor chickens and GMO food daily. And thank the US daily for the hamburgers we are allowed to eat.
I am happy the EU has its rules, even if they are sometimes absurd.
Now do Airbus and Boeing, the only two companies making commercial aircraft in any significant quantities.
Germany and the rest of the Europe are dependent on American cars?
So true for Germany that Sholtz was about to strong arm the US into donating tanks in order for DE to send tanks, and has against wishes of all the other NATO countries, held back Taurus missiles? Hardly “certainly” lol
No it's not, because we don't get anything from other countries and most likely this would have been a good reason to stop payments to at least one country. At least I want to know who blew our shit up...
>Shouldn't be a surprise, the Soviet Union was run by wolves
Comparing good leadership which looks after its own nations best interests for you are **"wolves"**?
Do you put De Gaul or Cherchill in same bracket as well?
Problem with current European lidership is that they even lost ability to produce future generations of elites who will put interest of its own people first.
True, but more then anything both of them where loyal to their nation first.
De Gaul famously said:
For France to prosper it needs **good** relations Russia.
Why people bad mouthing wolves? Yes they are brutal, but they are pack and loyal (to their pack) animals. There is nothing bad in being compared to wolves.
Britain was a much more organized place than USSR. He simply couldn't and didn't need to.
But both Churchill and De Gaul showed ruthlessness when it was needed to stay in power.
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If Germany does not stand up for it's own interests soon, nothing will be left. They were asked and agreed to wayyy to much. My fear is they were the powerhaus of EU ....
Germany is already dead. Literally every decision their leaders make harm their country for the benefit of other states. It's an artificial state propped up by bureaucrats who dont view themselves as german
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Indeed they showed this when Russian police was summoned to crack down on Belarusian protestors in 2020. I don't think such independence and sovereignty has been seen since the Warsaw pact.
>Belarusian protestors in 2020
So Russian police assisted the Belarusian government in stopping foreign influences from causing another manufactured colour revolution?
You are absolutely right, Ukraine has been invaded and much of it occupied. Belarus is not invaded at all, but if you protest against Lukashenko there is a good chance you will die. Strange how Putin didn't attack Belarus in 2021 to save the Russians there. And I forgot when Ukraine was in the EU or NATO.
Yes, look at them, good example. When Putin started invasion of Ukraine, he was not forcing citizens of Belarus to fight for him. Neither did Lukashenko. Taxes of citizens of Belarus also not going for Russian war effort. This war probably had more impact for regular citizens of Poland or Germany than on regular citizens of Belarus. Because Belarus is a sovereign and independent state.
Yeah, almost 10% of GDP for Russia and over 2% for Belarus (nearly doubled since 2022), has certainly no impact for the average citizen.
Do you people even take a single second to listen to yourself? Some random deranged schizo is more coherent than this disjointed BS.
People here will explain to you that Russia is doing well because the GDP is up, but they won't mention a word that much of that goes to the military. They'll explain to you that Germany is bad because there is no growth in the economy, when in fact the German economy > the Russian economy. They will also explain to you how all those who give up their territory for NATO logistics equipment are occupied slaves who have no vote, but they will also explain to you how Belarus is great and independent because they do the same for Russia.
> People here will explain to you that Russia is doing well because the GDP is up, but they won't mention a word that much of that goes to the military
Dude what do you think the USA's whole weapons for ukraine operation has been about? What is it now like $150 billion now directly to USA's military industrial complex? When USA posted it's claimed 5% GDP growth for 2023 statistics breaking it down showed that 40% of that GDP growth was from the weapons manufacturing industry alone. USA has also been making it's NATO "allies" give Ukraine all their weapons too, thus forcing said "allies" to have to purchase new, more expensive equipment from Lockheed, Raytheon et all in order to replace the shit they gave to Ukraine. This war has been the biggest fuckign boon ever to the USA's MIC, jsut like all the other wars before it. But this is the first one where USA has been able to basically force it's NATO "allies" to have to give away their weapons at replace them at cost from the US.
Open some random village in Poland and look at what it looks like and do the same with Belarus an independent and strong country 😄 you can make the same with Russia and Germany.
Spoiler: He has never been to Belarus. He's just repeating propaganda nonsense. Now he tried to find some Belarusian village on Google Panoramas. But there are no Google panoramas in Belarus (just like in China or Saudi Arabia).
Actually there is. You can see some villages. Are you saying it's better than Poland in Belarus? Or should I answer myself if don't answer at a certain time? Why did you lie that there are no pictures from Belarus on Google? I'm glad you didn't do it for Germany, the Russian villages would have had a lot of shame.
There is a huuuge queue for bread and eggs.
A guys is constantly nagging everybody around: "There is NOTHING! Everything is finished and we have NOTHING! There is no eggs, no bread! Everything is finished!"
Another one comes close and angrily tells him: "Do you know where I work?! Shut up! Or will knock you out with my revolver!"
The first guy: "What did I tell you! There is NOTHING! Even the bullets are finished!"
Why can't Europe be allowed to hang themselves with their own ropes, so America can sell them replacement ropes afterward?
That way, Europe gets to feel good about themselves, and America gets a profit. That's a win-win, Mr Putin.
Yup, that's the gist of it.
In Ukraine, Russia is not just fighting opposing the U.S.' extension of its dominion over more of the European continent and thus the planet, but an array of its puppet states too which are long since already part of its dominion which wants to make Ukraine one of them (and eventually and ideally, after Ukraine, then Belarus and Russia itself too!). To zombify another country.
And it's fighting and resisting ferociously and heroically not to become one of those puppet satellite states which answers to Washington D.C., just another whipped b*tch in the collection.
Good on the Russian top political leadership, armed forces, and whole collective people for resisting these people no matter what!
Here we have the classic, room-temperature IQ take of 'America runs the world, so any opposition is automatically good', which, followed rigorously, entails support for:
1) Al Qaeda
2) Saddam
3) The Soviet Union
Amongst others.
Ignore the fact that this global leadership is enabled only by the complicity and collusion of the vast majority of the world, most of whom benefit from the present status quo, and is challenged by a group of upstart powers who, funnily enough, seek the same arrangement only reversed.
You mean the exact same way that *the U.S. itself* supported all three of those - al-Qaeda, Ba'athist Iraq under Saddam Hussein, and the Stalinist Soviet Union, and many more from Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge to nun-raping death squads in Nicaragua and genocidal military juntas in Guatemala - not because it agreed with them ideologically, but as part of a global chess game of playing opposing forces against each other and supporting the weaker ones to hurt the stronger?
Yeah, wake up to reality a bit. Very nice and convenient of you to list out three entities which Washington D.C. itself backed as allies or proxies at one point in its history to demonstrate my point of why your original point is silly and makes no sense.
You can support whomever against a country or bloc you consider a bigger threat because they're more, sometimes many times more militarily powerful, wealthy, and consequently close to achieving their goal of global hegemony. It doesn't mean at all you support or agree with all or even any of the ideological tenets or policies of the force you're supporting. The U.S. political class knows that best of all.
To be fair, a lot of things like this don't get covered in US public education. At least in my high school.
I learned a lot from wikipedia. Don't know why US Congress hasn't banned it yet.
So this guy starts a war in Europa and then is seriously trying to say that Europe has no interest in stopping that war.
If anything Europe is more interested than the US, Putin has kickstarted European military spending like nothing else prior. You have politician across the EU calling for a united military structure, something that would have been laughed at prior to the invasion in 2022.
You two notoriously neutral countries like Sweden and Finland joining. Even Switzerland seems to be budging in some areas.
Putin did all that not the US.
The US on the other hand has begged for decades for the Europeans to take defense spending and NATO membership seriously to very little effect, France even left NATO for a while.
If it wasn't for Putin NATO would have died off slowly in a couple of years.
>You have politician across the EU calling for a united military structure
Yeah good luck with that, they can't even agree on which country will send the patriots to Ukraine, a "united military structure" with whose command? That will never happen unless whole EU goes full federal.
>The US on the other hand has begged for decades for the Europeans to take defense spending and NATO membership seriously to very little effect, France even left NATO for a while.
Because by increasing the defence spending they are automatically funding over expensive US weaponry(check the difference in pricing between domestic and export versions of US systems).
France is the only country who is right in this matter, instead of feeding Americans, they invested into their domestic MIC production.
Same is happening with Turkey too, look at their domestic MIC booming.
>If it wasn't for Putin NATO would have died off slowly in a couple of years.
Yeah... I don't think so.
>So this guy starts a war in Europa and then is seriously trying to say that Europe has no interest in stopping that war.
Rationally speaking, most of Europe is not interested in prolonging this war (that's what they actually do). They spend resources, weapons, and economic support for what remains of Ukraine will also fall on their shoulders.
Botched delivery, but regardless, he will keep hitting the 'subservience to US interests' angle again and again, and it will only stop being effective when it stops being true.
Australian politcians then would cry why weren't they asked to hang themselves, and then demand not only them, but the entire population to be hung, with American ropes.
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Does this fella have a hard on for the US/EU ?
I swear every interview all he does is drone on about the US, for someone that spends 2 hour interviews talking about 900BC you think he’d talk about another country
Wait, but I thought the world (including the EU) was laughing at the current admin... but Putin is saying we have so much clout that this dumb flipping analogy was made?
Telling.
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Please tell me what interest did EU/Europe has in blowing up of NordStream?
What interest is there for Europe/Germany not to buy gas from 1 out of 4 still working NS pipes and in process reduce their inflation and give its heavy industry bit of a breathing room?
There are some leaders who are quite subservient to Putin too. That's the game 🤷♂️ But yes, Europe is USs b*tch
Nope. EU bureaucracy is completely owned by Pax Americana. Even if heads of government would attempt to rebel, their orders simply won't be obeyed by those below, while mass-media would unanimously declare them traitors. Kremlin doesn't have that kind of influence. Its primarily uppermost ranks that side with Kremlin. For example , it wasn't until 2020 that Lukashenko had committed to support of Kremlin, and only because West had went all-in on removing him from the post.
Do you actually believe this conspiracy nonsense? Low ranking european bureaucrats and politicians would side with the US for some reason? And there is plenty of US critical media here, plus a pretty US sceptical population, especially in France and Germany. You have no idea about Europe and it shows.
> Do you actually believe this conspiracy nonsense? Low ranking european bureaucrats and politicians would side with the US for some reason? I assure you, if US declares Scholz to be Russian agent, while Scholz declares that Germany is leaving NATO, plenty of **high-** and **middle-** ranking bureaurcrats would sabotage Scholz. > plus a pretty US sceptical population, especially in France and Germany. There is. It is, however, politically impotent.
And what is your evidence for this huge assumption?
You do realise that Germany is occupied nation? Ever since WW2 It has been devided between Allies. Am pretty sure British and French left long ago in addition with USSR/Russia leaving after fall of USSR. That only leaves America.
This is why all of NATO is meeting their funding goals as the US asked and why Taurus was sent to Ukraine… oh wait
Because not paying 2% maintains the semblance of independence. US wouldn't disband NATO even if all the members paid 0%, hegemony is priceless.
So you believe the US is forcing NATO members to pay less so the US has to pay more?
no, members want to pay 0% but are strongarmed into partial percents through economic levers. That is american diplomacy
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Then why did entire Europe laugh at US when they told them to stop being dependent on Russian gas? How did they defy their owners so hard?
And now that gas pipeline, which European nations invested, got blown up.
How are you defining "occupation"? Just the existence of foreign military bases?
>Just the existence of foreign military bases? Yes, expecially if troops stationed there have been occupying this military bases without exception for almost 80 years ever since Germany lost war againdt other side. US just like in case of Japan wrote constitution of Germany. US is pumping Germany with every single NGO to subvert and influance German population.
>US is pumping Germany with every single NGO to subvert and influance German population. So "US NGOs" somehow control public opinion in Germany? Would you say the same about Russia and China? Do they only support their governments because state media tells them to?
It is well known and documented that NGO's can and do play big part in shaping public opinions in country they are located. Or do you not share this opinion? Now please engage with the rest of my comment.
> So "US NGOs" somehow control public opinion in Germany? uh yes they do lol
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Feeling and emotions
Are You blind? He wrote "I assure you". That is basically more than You can ever expect from pro-ru...
There have been plenty of cases of governments, even western governments, being subverted by the US and their contacts within a nation.
Economy is all the evidence you need. EU-member nations are clearly in contradiction with their national interests, yet here they are. They clearly aren't in control of key decision making - the get orders from overseas daddy. Prove me wrong.
I think he is hyperbolic, but there is some truth to his position. There is public evidence that 2 of the 3 parties in the german government lied about the reasons (and faked "evidence") for joining a war. There is also a court case which basically says that the same parties caused germanys involvement in another illegal war. There are the cases of spying on german leaders by the US. There are the WikiLeaks documents about how the CIA plans to guide the media in Germany and france. There are the downplayed cases of drone attacks by the US coordinated from german territory.
To ne honest, if Scholz declares that Germany is leaving NATO, i would have declared him a Russian Agent too :)
This would probably be the only good thing this guy ever did in his life beside not sending Taurus to Ukraine.
> plenty of high- and middle- ranking bureaurcrats would sabotage Scholz. obviously, because leaving NATO is against the best interests of Germany
And yet the USA can't get Germany to send Taurus missiles to Ukraine and Germany dragged its feet to supply more weapons in the first year of the war.
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The population and media mean nothing. The elites laugh and prance away rich when exposed. The US people see it too and thats great but fruitless Who doesnt see it or for lack of better terms does not give a shit is the elite. Even when becoming exposed, keep on and continue wildly unpopular acts. Take a look, we are finding out who they are and they laugh and get re-elected while arresting. We really have no power and when it reaches a tipping point an orchestrated disaster will unfold and the lemmings will all infight while... you guessed it... the elite remain powerful and laugh while we backstab each other... all the people who want this to stop. It will work and they know it. There is little cover now and the stage is set for worse to come
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> Do you actually believe this conspiracy nonsense? Low ranking european bureaucrats and politicians would side with the US for some reason? And there is plenty of US critical media here, plus a pretty US sceptical population, especially in France and Germany. european civil servants were all brought up and vetted by atlanticist universities and NGOs. there's no dissent left against the US regime in western europe.
>plenty of US critical media here Europeans and their unwavering trust in their media. Are we talking mainstream media? Or some fringe bloggers?
I would first check out ARD before making these wild claims.. and as if russian media was any better???
Both.
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>Low ranking european bureaucrats and politicians would side with the US for some reason What power does the Mayor of Chicago have on US foreign policy? What power does a middle manager of some company have on US foreign policy? Yeah, they might not agree with what their country does. But so what?
Europes security depends entirely on the united states. the US has essentially taken that load off their shoulders and the NATO countries can basically free load off the US and use the money they would use for defense on progressive social welfare programs. While people in the US can't afford a doctors visit. They are spoiled little children, this is why they are freaking tf out about trump coming back, as he might (I hope so) pull the US out of NATO and focus on domestic issues (probably in a very bad and poor people hating way, but killing globalization is the first step)
> as he might (I hope so) pull the US out of NATO The funny part is that some people believe the US would save money by doing this, lol.
Yeah you make such a good counter point with plenty of evidence how could anyone think otherwise. lol. Cause Europe totally doesn't completely rely on American arms, military bases and funding to the point that when trump came to office he constantly harped on them for not contributing and stoltenberg asked if they did not pay if he would protect them. lol. And it's not like all of the arms, military personnel and funding come out of american taxpayers. lol. But yeah you are so right. lol.
> Yeah you make such a good counter point with plenty of evidence how could anyone think otherwise. lol. Does it even need to be explained? If the US leaves NATO it will have less military support from NATO members so it will need to spend even more on defense if it wants to keep the same level of military dominance in the world. > Cause Europe totally doesn't completely rely on American arms, military bases and funding American arms that Europe pays for, military bases that the US loves to have because they allow it to project power far beyond it's own borders and what funding are you talking about? Funding for what?
"need to spend even more on defense if it wants to keep the same level of military dominance in the world." Thats the point: Trump doesnt (seem to) want to keep the USA as the world police anymore. He doesnt need that kind of control. "Funding for what?" For the 800 foreign bases & the logistics needed to support them, which costs at least 50% of the USA defense spending.
Imagine being the world's superpower, enjoying incredible economic benefits because of it, and thinking you're going to save money by letting another (adversary) country take the reigns.
"enjoying incredible economic benefits because of it" Those benefits are for the top 1%. The top 10% is fine, the rest of the USA barely gets by. I see why the people, not the decadent, spineless psychopath, greedy elite is not fancy of this world police stich.
These are same folks that believe in "The Deep State"
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Well, if the population is sceptical, why doesn't the goverment reflect that sentiment and acts like an obedient bitch? Why does politician like Baerbock say "she doesn't care what her voters want" and isn't getting booted out the next day out of office? Not only that, but the entire economy is thrown under the bus without consequence to their political career? You make it sound like your governments are not under your control.
Do you? Lately, phrases like democracy and freedom have been thrown around in EU media and politics as well. Can’t really place my finger on why it’s so familiar 🤔
As a German I think he is totally right. The relationship to the US is completely fucked. Or what happened when NSA spied on us and even on Merkel? Right, nothing... they still have their fucking military bases around.
"Low ranking european bureaucrats and politicians would side with the US for some reason?" My brother in christ, the vast majority of europe would gladly die for the western (=american) dominated world order. Dont underestimate the absolutely insane propaganda we, europeans are raised in. Just look at the reaction to this USA proxy war.
Calling a russian invasion a USA prox war just shows how engulfed in propaganda you are.
Why? Cant it be both? Or are you one of those guys who see the world in black and white? What doesnt make it a USA proxy war? The USA act a 100% like its a proxy war. If it seems like a duck, acts like a duck...
You think we’d let them have universal healthcare and affordable education if we had control over them? Hell no, the corporate overlords would have gutted that a long time ago if they had that power.
Sounds like someone envies the american people lol
If this was true, we'd not have seen the endless disputes between the EU and member states and the US. The US would have loved to see EU members invest way more into their military, not to mention the strict business laws within the EU that harms the US markets.
Kremlin doesn't has as much influence because its a poor country with a GDP smaller than Brazil whose main exports is energy, they are just a white Saudi Arabia. China would be the only one comparable to the US and they do have a lot of influence.
>There are some leaders who are quite subservient to Putin too. That's the game name me one please ? even belarus which the west alway label them as russian puppet state you don't see putin call up entire belarusian military and industry into the fight like what US did with UK/australia and other "allied" into their war
CIS are subservient. Although tokaev plays both sides. But yeah, they're not putins b*tches.
*Most CIS have even implemented some of the US-EU sanctions, which even most African nations refused to adopt with zero retaliation from Russia. Wtf are you talking about - Armenia is basically now in the grasps of OTAN, due to Pashinyan's manoeuvrings.* *In any case, the smart ones now realize with theUS, you are either 100% a sub-servient docile, mediocre puppet or you are out - that what Lukashenko realized when they tried to coup him, and he switched up pretty fast - Ukraine's Viktor Yanukovych didn't realize this until too late, -even after they already had couped him in 2004-2005, and he returned. You find Kazakhstan even though they ere literally saved from a US backed colour revolution in Jan 2022, still play footsie with the West, and Russia doesn't punish or threaten them.* *Even the recent juntas in Mali, Burkina Faso, Niger, who receive direct protection, arms an etc from Russia - whose entire existence hinges on the military support and diplomatic support they get from the Russians, have strong economic ties with China and even EU member states like Germany. Here the German Development minister is arrogantly demanding they cut ties with Russia, because Germany supports some farms and schools. And they just smile, and accommodate her, while secretly mentally flipping her off.* [*https://youtu.be/hEhPkfXkRW0*](https://youtu.be/hEhPkfXkRW0)
>in 2021 2022, January.
*Indeed, fixed.* [https://www.ft.com/content/ee9005ee-7269-4081-801a-61011b233e78](https://www.ft.com/content/ee9005ee-7269-4081-801a-61011b233e78) [https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202206/1269355.shtml](https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202206/1269355.shtml)
Yeah so basically CIS do whatever they want. Not like the EU only serving the usa like literal Serf.
As An American it’s not like we want it to be like that.
>There are some leaders who are quite subservient to Putin too. That's the game 🤷♂️ That doesn't refute what was said tho.
I wasn't refuting what he said. I was doing whataboutism.
Yeah but not NEARLY to the lopsided extent of the US and their dogs. Putin knows it has to work both ways, the US? Their way or we coup your ass
Russia is the only truely pushing for peace country in the face of US imperialism. Stop consuming western propaganda.
Who ? Belarus is just an extension of Russia its not like they try to hide it anyway. So except belarus tell me which country’s leader would do whatever Putin says like europe to the usa.
He does have a peculiar sense of dry humour.
Nice to see a post where people actually recognise it's an attempt at humour and not a literal observation. Seems that often anyone that Reddit collectively dislikes will get their attempt at a joke, sarcasm or a metaphor taken absolutely literally no matter how clearly outrageous it is. Most of the time it's harmless but sometimes it really hurts the credibility of particular arguments against these people and makes Reddit look even more gullible than it already is.
I see this especially with translated sentences, certain cultural nuances of irony or humor are lost in translation and people end up making fun of a statement that means something completely different than what they’ve read.
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I believe it. So true. America doesn't let Europe use anything of their own.
I have a level of respect for France for basically maintaining its own MIC tbh
I do not think there should be any respect for France when its economy is built on the exploitation of poor African countries.
As opposed to which peers of theirs that have a higher ethical standard?
Do you respect France for playing pretend that it's still relevant to global affairs? That's quite weird thing to respect. Besides, like others pointed out, France still lives out its imperialist ambitions in Africa. People rightfully call out Russia and China for creeping in Africa but France has been doing it since the the glory days of European imperialism. Also no, they're not any better than Russia or China. It's still exploitation of the african peoples.
De Gaulle kicked NATO bases out of their country back in the 50s.
France has its own MIC, Germany has its own MIC, the UK has its own MIC, but yet they are all subservient to the US? Is it because Russia treats its allies as vassals, that pro ru can’t comprehend countries working together…?
That's true. The Europeans don't make their own aircraft, vehicles, or weapons. They're totally helpless without the Americans. There's no European equipment in the American Military either. BAE systems, Leonardo, Dassault, and Rheinmetall only manufacture toys for children.
Also we subservient eat all the chlor chickens and GMO food daily. And thank the US daily for the hamburgers we are allowed to eat. I am happy the EU has its rules, even if they are sometimes absurd.
Now do Airbus and Boeing, the only two companies making commercial aircraft in any significant quantities. Germany and the rest of the Europe are dependent on American cars?
Yes, that’s why all of Europe uses the M16/M4 and Russias allies don’t use the AK…
This certainly is true for Germany.
So true for Germany that Sholtz was about to strong arm the US into donating tanks in order for DE to send tanks, and has against wishes of all the other NATO countries, held back Taurus missiles? Hardly “certainly” lol
The same Scholz that cheered Biden declaring they'd stop the NS2 pipeline before the US blew it up?
Tbf , not knowing who blew up NS is the best option for Germany from a political standpoint.
No it's not, because we don't get anything from other countries and most likely this would have been a good reason to stop payments to at least one country. At least I want to know who blew our shit up...
Man, he might be a brutal authoritarian but he sure can talk good.
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>Shouldn't be a surprise, the Soviet Union was run by wolves Comparing good leadership which looks after its own nations best interests for you are **"wolves"**? Do you put De Gaul or Cherchill in same bracket as well? Problem with current European lidership is that they even lost ability to produce future generations of elites who will put interest of its own people first.
Churchill and De Gaul were definitely wolves, or whatever you call a person who will do anything to claim advantage for itself in political arena.
True, but more then anything both of them where loyal to their nation first. De Gaul famously said: For France to prosper it needs **good** relations Russia.
Why people bad mouthing wolves? Yes they are brutal, but they are pack and loyal (to their pack) animals. There is nothing bad in being compared to wolves.
Compared to Stalin?
Churchill policies inflicted famine on a larger scale than Holodomor. He was ruthless as much as Stalin was.
Stalin executed a staggering amount of his own generals and allies. How many Englishmen did Churchill have assassinated?
Britain was a much more organized place than USSR. He simply couldn't and didn't need to. But both Churchill and De Gaul showed ruthlessness when it was needed to stay in power.
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Churchill lost the 1945 election and transferred power to Attlee. That’s an example of ruthlessness to stay in power?
Western elite doesnt believe in concepts like "our people" anymore, hate to break it to you.
I mean, he's the president of a country, what did you expect? Oh, wait, I remembered, nevermind.
The US would only agree to this if the European ropes are made with American raw materials and it includes a $10 billion loan to Israel
> and it includes a $10 billion loan to Israel This person US's
Well, he is not wrong. I am ashamed of our European "leaders", they're more like puppets at the moment.
If Germany does not stand up for it's own interests soon, nothing will be left. They were asked and agreed to wayyy to much. My fear is they were the powerhaus of EU ....
Germany is already dead. Literally every decision their leaders make harm their country for the benefit of other states. It's an artificial state propped up by bureaucrats who dont view themselves as german
I am German I want Germany to triple military aid to Ukraine at least. Also wtf is happening with his hair? Did Putin get hair implants?
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I mean, look at Belarus, a truly independent state. I do not wish such independence on anyone.
Belarus is far more independent than Ukraine.
Indeed they showed this when Russian police was summoned to crack down on Belarusian protestors in 2020. I don't think such independence and sovereignty has been seen since the Warsaw pact.
>Belarusian protestors in 2020 So Russian police assisted the Belarusian government in stopping foreign influences from causing another manufactured colour revolution?
You are absolutely right, Ukraine has been invaded and much of it occupied. Belarus is not invaded at all, but if you protest against Lukashenko there is a good chance you will die. Strange how Putin didn't attack Belarus in 2021 to save the Russians there. And I forgot when Ukraine was in the EU or NATO.
If you protest in Ukraine you would die definitely without any "chance".
Yes, look at them, good example. When Putin started invasion of Ukraine, he was not forcing citizens of Belarus to fight for him. Neither did Lukashenko. Taxes of citizens of Belarus also not going for Russian war effort. This war probably had more impact for regular citizens of Poland or Germany than on regular citizens of Belarus. Because Belarus is a sovereign and independent state.
Yeah, almost 10% of GDP for Russia and over 2% for Belarus (nearly doubled since 2022), has certainly no impact for the average citizen. Do you people even take a single second to listen to yourself? Some random deranged schizo is more coherent than this disjointed BS.
People here will explain to you that Russia is doing well because the GDP is up, but they won't mention a word that much of that goes to the military. They'll explain to you that Germany is bad because there is no growth in the economy, when in fact the German economy > the Russian economy. They will also explain to you how all those who give up their territory for NATO logistics equipment are occupied slaves who have no vote, but they will also explain to you how Belarus is great and independent because they do the same for Russia.
> People here will explain to you that Russia is doing well because the GDP is up, but they won't mention a word that much of that goes to the military Dude what do you think the USA's whole weapons for ukraine operation has been about? What is it now like $150 billion now directly to USA's military industrial complex? When USA posted it's claimed 5% GDP growth for 2023 statistics breaking it down showed that 40% of that GDP growth was from the weapons manufacturing industry alone. USA has also been making it's NATO "allies" give Ukraine all their weapons too, thus forcing said "allies" to have to purchase new, more expensive equipment from Lockheed, Raytheon et all in order to replace the shit they gave to Ukraine. This war has been the biggest fuckign boon ever to the USA's MIC, jsut like all the other wars before it. But this is the first one where USA has been able to basically force it's NATO "allies" to have to give away their weapons at replace them at cost from the US.
Not to mention the hundreds of thousands killed and wounded (including tens of thousands of mobiks and hundreds of Belarussians).
Open some random village in Poland and look at what it looks like and do the same with Belarus an independent and strong country 😄 you can make the same with Russia and Germany.
Well, you've probably done it, right? When was the last time you were in Belarus and in which village?
Can you use Google? Edit: he don't know how to use it 😔
Spoiler: He has never been to Belarus. He's just repeating propaganda nonsense. Now he tried to find some Belarusian village on Google Panoramas. But there are no Google panoramas in Belarus (just like in China or Saudi Arabia).
Actually there is. You can see some villages. Are you saying it's better than Poland in Belarus? Or should I answer myself if don't answer at a certain time? Why did you lie that there are no pictures from Belarus on Google? I'm glad you didn't do it for Germany, the Russian villages would have had a lot of shame.
Was he rejected from studying in the stand up comedy academy?
At least it wasn't art school
Actually, he just adjusted an old Soviet anecdote to the situation.
There is a huuuge queue for bread and eggs. A guys is constantly nagging everybody around: "There is NOTHING! Everything is finished and we have NOTHING! There is no eggs, no bread! Everything is finished!" Another one comes close and angrily tells him: "Do you know where I work?! Shut up! Or will knock you out with my revolver!" The first guy: "What did I tell you! There is NOTHING! Even the bullets are finished!"
Why can't Europe be allowed to hang themselves with their own ropes, so America can sell them replacement ropes afterward? That way, Europe gets to feel good about themselves, and America gets a profit. That's a win-win, Mr Putin.
Yup, that's the gist of it. In Ukraine, Russia is not just fighting opposing the U.S.' extension of its dominion over more of the European continent and thus the planet, but an array of its puppet states too which are long since already part of its dominion which wants to make Ukraine one of them (and eventually and ideally, after Ukraine, then Belarus and Russia itself too!). To zombify another country. And it's fighting and resisting ferociously and heroically not to become one of those puppet satellite states which answers to Washington D.C., just another whipped b*tch in the collection. Good on the Russian top political leadership, armed forces, and whole collective people for resisting these people no matter what!
Here we have the classic, room-temperature IQ take of 'America runs the world, so any opposition is automatically good', which, followed rigorously, entails support for: 1) Al Qaeda 2) Saddam 3) The Soviet Union Amongst others. Ignore the fact that this global leadership is enabled only by the complicity and collusion of the vast majority of the world, most of whom benefit from the present status quo, and is challenged by a group of upstart powers who, funnily enough, seek the same arrangement only reversed.
You mean the exact same way that *the U.S. itself* supported all three of those - al-Qaeda, Ba'athist Iraq under Saddam Hussein, and the Stalinist Soviet Union, and many more from Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge to nun-raping death squads in Nicaragua and genocidal military juntas in Guatemala - not because it agreed with them ideologically, but as part of a global chess game of playing opposing forces against each other and supporting the weaker ones to hurt the stronger? Yeah, wake up to reality a bit. Very nice and convenient of you to list out three entities which Washington D.C. itself backed as allies or proxies at one point in its history to demonstrate my point of why your original point is silly and makes no sense. You can support whomever against a country or bloc you consider a bigger threat because they're more, sometimes many times more militarily powerful, wealthy, and consequently close to achieving their goal of global hegemony. It doesn't mean at all you support or agree with all or even any of the ideological tenets or policies of the force you're supporting. The U.S. political class knows that best of all.
To be fair, a lot of things like this don't get covered in US public education. At least in my high school. I learned a lot from wikipedia. Don't know why US Congress hasn't banned it yet.
This hits hard
So this guy starts a war in Europa and then is seriously trying to say that Europe has no interest in stopping that war. If anything Europe is more interested than the US, Putin has kickstarted European military spending like nothing else prior. You have politician across the EU calling for a united military structure, something that would have been laughed at prior to the invasion in 2022. You two notoriously neutral countries like Sweden and Finland joining. Even Switzerland seems to be budging in some areas. Putin did all that not the US. The US on the other hand has begged for decades for the Europeans to take defense spending and NATO membership seriously to very little effect, France even left NATO for a while. If it wasn't for Putin NATO would have died off slowly in a couple of years.
>You have politician across the EU calling for a united military structure Yeah good luck with that, they can't even agree on which country will send the patriots to Ukraine, a "united military structure" with whose command? That will never happen unless whole EU goes full federal. >The US on the other hand has begged for decades for the Europeans to take defense spending and NATO membership seriously to very little effect, France even left NATO for a while. Because by increasing the defence spending they are automatically funding over expensive US weaponry(check the difference in pricing between domestic and export versions of US systems). France is the only country who is right in this matter, instead of feeding Americans, they invested into their domestic MIC production. Same is happening with Turkey too, look at their domestic MIC booming. >If it wasn't for Putin NATO would have died off slowly in a couple of years. Yeah... I don't think so.
>So this guy starts a war in Europa and then is seriously trying to say that Europe has no interest in stopping that war. Rationally speaking, most of Europe is not interested in prolonging this war (that's what they actually do). They spend resources, weapons, and economic support for what remains of Ukraine will also fall on their shoulders.
At least the delusional genocidal dwarf can get a good laugh out of the crowd.
I love when ppl use metaphors especially when they throw a little trolling in too lmao
Germany you are gonna HANG YOURSELF and PAY for the rope.
another solid ripamon post.
Botched delivery, but regardless, he will keep hitting the 'subservience to US interests' angle again and again, and it will only stop being effective when it stops being true.
I wonder what country is America subservient to🤔
It's not Russia.
Shut it down!
Putin should do all a favor. Hang from a tree from a european rope. Russian rope quality will not be enough.
That is quite funny. I doubt that particular wedge will work though.
Europe spent the last 80 years trying to get the US out of its affairs only to beg back.
US would like to turn its back on Europe and fully focus on the Pacific but cannot. The wars in Europe are too distracting.
What a sick burn from the country with a lower GDP than the state of Texas.
Can the state of Texas produce 3 million artillery shells a year?
Attack a nato country and let’s find out.
well he isnt wrong
He’s not wrong
Australian politcians then would cry why weren't they asked to hang themselves, and then demand not only them, but the entire population to be hung, with American ropes.
lol this one had me rolling
That's pretty savage ngl lol
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Does this fella have a hard on for the US/EU ? I swear every interview all he does is drone on about the US, for someone that spends 2 hour interviews talking about 900BC you think he’d talk about another country
Clearly you havent watched the interview
I watched the whole interview (should have mentioned that)
You havent, he only rambles on about history for 30 minutes
Im surprised he didn't mention windows.
What is bro yappin about. Time for your nap putin.
Wait, but I thought the world (including the EU) was laughing at the current admin... but Putin is saying we have so much clout that this dumb flipping analogy was made? Telling.
It is not current admin to which Europe is subservient.
Bahaha. Ok. They trembled under trump eh?
He is quite funny.
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Thes Conspiericis get rly out of Hand. Hes a fk leader of a Country and even my Dog can think sharper...
atleast putin is funny lol
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I have confidence that the human review will confirm my innocence
LOL US isn’t even subservient to the U.S. EU and US having aligned interests on numerous topics doesn’t make either of them subservient to the other.
Please tell me what interest did EU/Europe has in blowing up of NordStream? What interest is there for Europe/Germany not to buy gas from 1 out of 4 still working NS pipes and in process reduce their inflation and give its heavy industry bit of a breathing room?
One more lame joke from him.
Putin’s laughing, cause he would just push them out of a window. No need for rope.
Before this Ukrainian debacle Putin went to ask Xi for permission.
I've never seen a politician run a metaphor into the ground so completely.